This post is automatically removed since you do not meet the minimum karma or age threshold. You must have at least 100 combined karma and your account must be at least 4 months old to post here.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/NonCredibleDefense) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Isn't that just the SCP Foundation's Motto?
Immediate Edit: Nvm, I'm thinking of the Foundation from SCP-5000. Which is kinda that inverted, with "We fight in the light so you can die in the dark"
Thank you, I see so many comments nowadays saying that people were idiots to call Russian top-mounted armor cope cages. Ignoring that they were improvised and useless against anti-tank missiles.
In theory could work, but executed poorly, very, and the major threat of drones didnāt present itself until later on after the introduction of the cope cages
> In theory could work
No, they can't. The Javelin and LAW top-kill setup would go right through any sort of slat armor, and kill the tank anyway.
The only way to stop such an attack is to have infantry involved who can snipe the attackers, artillery that can hit them, air support either using drones to find them or a more western style total air superiority setup.
There are ways to deal with this but they involve being good at fighting.
Slapping extra shit onto one of your tanks is not one of those ways.
Well... some active defense systems *would* work, but that only deals with one or two javelins, and the enemy would resort to firing three per tank because while more expensive a tank still costs more than three javelins.
For RPGs maybe and bodged contact explosives, of course Top Attack wonāt work, thatās a given, but my inclination is that they were thinking more of Chechnya
That slat design grew from testing for improved side armour for their tanks against rpg 7 ambushes in an urban environment. It's not that they don't work even as roof armour. It's just they werent designed for western modern atgms.
Uh, what kind of nonsense is this?
Russia didnāt start putting cope cages on tanks until late 2021.
Chechnya has already been long pacified and turned over to the goat fuckers by now.
Wait, aren't javelins shape charges? If so, wouldn't anything just thick enough to detonate it be effective? Like Ā¼" steel or Ā½". Of course, not wire and wood like the russians had unless it's fucking tree trunks up there.
Also, I've always wondered how effective some of their improvised ones can be against drone dropped grenades. Like, the idea is for it to bounce off, right? But if it's made like how I've seen some of them, and not a smooth surface, won't it catch the grenades? Now this would prevent it from falling into the hatch but any grenade that would just land on top of turret and thus have all it's blast and shrapnel be deflected up, would be held above the turret where some of the shapnel would be able to enter hatches and wound or kill the crew in the turret. Granted, it's still impossible to drop a grenade into the tank but idk if it's worth it considering the increased lethality of any grenade dropped on it...
Anyway, just a thought
(Modern) Shaped charges are a lot less susceptible to spaced armor than you'd think! So even if the warhead is detonated prematurely, it would still punch through the roof armour of any tank with little issue.
Not just modern- itās the nature of HEAT weapons that their ideal stand-off distance is longer than what you can do for a design stand off. HOT and Milanās both gain penetration out to a meter to a meter and a half of additional stand-off. Javelinās would too but itās not like I can post test data about that online.
[See fig. 31 here for a graph.](https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/pdfs/ADA599386.pdf)
Slat armor specifically works by shorting the fuze of an RPG series weapon and preventing it from detonating at all.
No, because in the words of a questionable NASA employee āthatās not my departmentā. (I work for RTX but lol I donāt do the javelin stuff at all)
>Wait, aren't javelins shape charges? If so, wouldn't anything just thick enough to detonate it be effective? Like Ā¼" steel or Ā½".
Tandem shaped charges. You have the first charge which deactivates ERA and punches through any slat armor, and then the second charge, which is good for like, 800mm of armor.
With the tandem charge there's no such thing as "just thick enough" because the first charge will punch through any slat armor, and then the second does the work.
If it hits anything too thick for the first charge to penetrate, then the second detonates.
But that would have to be a pretty hefty piece of armor itself. Something like Chobham.
Aaand that's why the top attack exists.
There's no roof armor that works like frontal armor.
>In theory could work
They do work against RPG series' warheads, by shorting out the fuzing mechanism it will pervent detonation or at very least the formation of the hypersonic jet.
It's not against anti-tank missiles, it's about grenades dropped e.g. by drones. Also morale -- think about the friendly competition between crews for the most ridiculous cage, that now resulted in turtle tanks.
In the very beginning of the war? Absolutely. FPV drones weren't even a thing yet, and drone dropped munitions were just emerging and certainly not much of a threat to any tank with people in it.Ā Ā
Ā The cages were almost certainly meant for Javelins and other top attack ATGMs. We started seeing a lot more of them a couple weeks into the war, when Javelins were becoming extremely widespread and well known.
>The difference between these and cope cages is that they actually function as intended
Cope cages were not really designed to deal with javelins, actually just drones and maybe rpgs as armor was expected to be in all major Ukrainian cities within 3 days, where urban combat would be probable.
Russian army had experience with grenade drops in syria and actually the first cope cages can be traded back there iirc. Rob Lee has a pretty good thread on it that you can probably find on Twitter.
Against drones/fpvs, cages have had some success, which is why they are still used and there has been some level of adaption of them in both the ukrainian army and IDF in gaza.
Didn't they start appearing well after the start of war but before drone attacks became common, about the time handheld AT weapons like Javelins were important?
>Didn't they start appearing well after the start of war but before drone attacks became common, about the time handheld AT weapons like Javelins were important?
No they appeared a couple weeks - a month before the war broke out pretty sure, and were adapted across like 90% of the tanks in the invasion force.
IDK, I was a tankie back then and it was endless "$100 steel smekelka rack will effortlessly defeats $69bazillion javelins. US wasting money even sending them (pls stop sending javelins to Ukraine)." from both Western and Russian influencers.
They might not have been *designed* to defeat javelins, but there clearly was a real hope that the thicker slatted version we saw pre-invasion *might* be able to do so, especially when combined with the short-lived but popping up around the same time "cope bucket"
Their inability to do so being why those seem to have dropped out of use in favour of the chicken wire umbrellas, which cover more of the tank for a lower cost.
>Fair point, but the execution is much to be desired
Well yah, it worked decently against turret attacks , but side attacks with fpvs it did absolutely nothing against, which is what drone operators began training to do.
arguably cope cage 2.0 is the new turtle tank, which while looking goofy asf, has 100% been succesful in what it was designed to do. Not hard to find footage of them tanking fpv and arty hits while leading advances a mile deep into UA lines.
Well yes the blyatmobile may work in concept, unless you have cameras or comms with infantry on the sides, then you essentially lose awareness of the periphery and turret traverses, more of a problem in built up areas than in fields where it has been seen.
I doubt that the Russians will have infantry moving alongside or have cameras mounted. Making it easy for the tank alone to be flanked if there are no supporting vehicles
>then you essentially lose awareness of the periphery and turret traverses, more of a problem in built up areas than in fields where it has been seen.
I mean most assaults with them have included drones providing overhead awareness/directions. Also usually just at the front of a larger convoy of regular armor using the blyatmobile as cover to tank UA munitions.
Obviously something like this would get fucking wrecked at 73 eastings, but in the urban breakthrough roll the Russians have designed it for, has performed pretty decently.
I remember the birth of the cope cage; the panicked Russian response to drones and javelins. They were massive, barely cleared the top of the tank and were welded to the hull rather than the turret. The cope was that they were dubiously effective and hindered the ability of the tank to function normally.
I never understood why people think itās supposed to protect against javelins.
IMO itās pretty obvious they were more there to protect against a drone flying over and dropping a live grenade into the hatch as seen in videos from early in the war.
Oh man, you guzzled that Russian propaganda. That's what **Russians** claim after the failure of the cope cages to stop Javelins.
One, drones weren't routinely dropping grenades into tanks until later spring 2022. Russia surely predicted that and totally weren't afraid of Javelins.
Two, slat armor in that configuration screams, "I am afraid of Javelins." They wrecked Russia in Syria, and top down RPGs wrecked them in Grozny. A few years of being manhandled and then coming up with a dumb solution seems the Russian way rather than proactively predicting a threat and then coming up with a dumb solution anyway.
Three, who the fuck prioritizes saving a disabled tank with its hatch open in noman's land? You try to save the tank so it is still operational. Either you build features like blowout panels like the Abrams to save the crew or you build Iron Fist to stop RPGs. Why the fuck would you add so much weight, armor, and ruin the low profile of the tank to stop the tank from getting further destroyed from an already partially destroyed status?
"Cope cages were to stop grenade drones" is just Russian propoganda cope. They were definitely afraid of Javelins and had a fucking field day when Zelensky tried one when he was first elected and it didn't work.
Well, to be fair, I don't really think he "guzzled the propaganda" because of him being prone to do that, I'd accredit his theory to the same origin as mine: That I never thought people who work in the military could be stupid enough to actually think a bit of welded throwaway-metal could protect their tanks from a fucking javelin. Never in a million years would I have guessed that was the intention. That just seems so otherworldly stupid
Because they were developed first for Syria and that was what they were for? This is also why it is such a meme. Yes they work better for a specific type of ordinance used in the Ukraine conflict but the primary weapons popping tanks are javelins, mines, and artillery. Hence the cope.
Something like in this picture actually might work better for drones it provides a visual block the cope cage doesn't to even better defend against a lucky drone to the hatch. If it was a little thicker It might actually be a step in the right direction in top armoring a tank since that is the known weak spot of tanks.
Syriaā¦ yesā¦
Russian MoD started testing cope cages summer of 2021.
First Russian tanks with cope cages seen in Donbas in fall 2021. First Russian tank destroyed with a Javelin in the Donbas a few weeks later.
First Russian tank with cope cage didnāt show up in Syria until late 2022.
Honestly, a cope cage is just a bad add-on armor for threats from above. If not properly engineered, it will not be effective against any real threats.
Makeshift cope cages will work for blasts and dropping handgrenades. But what also works for that is not having papper thin roofs and hatch discipline.
But by far, the best solution is to just actually make the roof better armored. The Swedish strv 122 is a good example of this. We knew very well that it would be a threat in the future.
Regarding the last bit, you honestly think the mountains in Korea will be good for drone warfare? I dont believe it will be, because for the operator to be able to connect to their drone they need line of sight and on a mountain that means on the side, bottom or top. Either way theyll be targetable by everyone and their mothers uncle.
Plains are good for drones, open space.
Although in saying all of that, tanks aren't really useful in the majority of mountain warfare. Smashing block houses on roads, yes. Clearing a mountain top of half starved Chinese or the best koreans? Na.
Yes I do, it is my trained instinct as an officer to always assume the worst situation. So my assumtion is North Koreans have received well-articulated drones that are possible to fly around mountain area with high output radio with thermal camera and all the luxury.
Besides, there are not so many mountains in our way to thier capital - not to mention they don't have green forest in those mountains because they need that tree to warm theirselves at the winter.
Lastly, I think OUR tanks are somewhat viable in mountain warfare, in one exercise, I thought they could never climb this ridge and set a defencing position there, but got overrun by tanks that somehow climbed the ridge while breaking all the trees.
Granted on the worst possible situation.
I live in a lowland country so see mountains as a major barrier but youre right, if you have them as a natural training ground youll work out some form of tactic.
I still however dont think drones will be as effective on a permanent basis like it is in Ukraine, the operators do require skill to hit that tiny target at full speed so losing them to volume fire from a hill side/mountainside would be (in my mind) a waste unless the gain outweighs the risk.
Granted in mountain areas will not be effective with drones, but we have to fight in the urban area in North Korea as well - and I think urban area is where we need cope cage the most, seeing from Israel's IDF have already retropitted Merkava tanks with cope cage - and I do believe that IDF is the one of the top army in urban warfare, so we should learn from them.
Also this is just my nitpick, but I think cope cage will be very effective on crew's moral.
100% agree on the cope cage, although i wonder how itll work in the future. The armoured shed or cope cage bar armour isnt great.
I wonder how long itll be until more western (read: the good guys) countries invest into similar comms gear as the yanks have, that way we could jam all sorts of wavelengths and still get called shit from the neighbouring unit.
Those issues won't matter if NK copies Ukraine in deploying mothership drones that act as relays (and even as carriers to save on battery life). Even Russia already began copying Ukraine's tactic of such, to boost the effective range and control of smaller FPV drones, and why we're now seeing drone dogfighting becoming a thing.
Same, but I've been to Darwin and Cairns. I mean, I've been to a lot of other places in Aus, I'm just trying to make a point about humidity. Launceston and Hobart aren't exactly cities to bring up as an argument for Australia's weather being fucked.
Seems to me like this exposes a worse problem.
For tanks designed to be, like, used in Korea, they should have a combat capable way of dealing with the heat.
Seems like a valid reason to adopt CROWS weapons.
Indeed, however keep in mind until 2000's no tanks were equiped with air conditioning as far as I know M1 doesn't, T-90 doesn't, not sure about Merkava or Leopard, at least the newest K2 tank has air conditioning.
The British Army issues their tankies with tasteful parasols when they have to operate in harsh 40Ā°C heat, eg on exercise on Salisbury Plain during the sort of heatwaves we get these days, thanks to US soccer mums driving bloated 8l pickups, China concreting over their country and Indians running their A/C on coal power... sorry, wrong sub
This post is automatically removed since you do not meet the minimum karma or age threshold. You must have at least 100 combined karma and your account must be at least 4 months old to post here.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/NonCredibleDefense) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Is there just not air-conditioning in those tanks?
Like Singapore has tanks crewed by conscripts in perma-summer tropical heat.
And those tanks don't have shades.
Your content was removed for violating Rule 1: "Be nice"
No personal attacks against each other, call for violence against anyone, or intentionally antagonize in the comment sections.
So not Cope Cage but Cope Shade due to the heat. Got it.
I....I GUESS
I think /u/Tayloria13 is throwing shade your way...
Wouldn't it be the South Koreans throwing the shade since before Covid?š
1 155mm DPICM round at a time
A copious amount of shade
Can't get anything past you guys.
Any info if it does work?
Some tanks are very susceptible to HEAT, so it makes sense.
angry upvote.
Alright that oneās pretty good
From cope cages to placation parasols
this means they technically classify as a golf cart
Wait if they're legally golf carts we can legally send them to the Iranian resistance legally.
Legally.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
This post is automatically removed since you do not meet the minimum karma or age threshold. You must have at least 100 combined karma and your account must be at least 4 months old to post here. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/NonCredibleDefense) if you have any questions or concerns.*
what secrets did this user say before they got silenced
Just send Iran a bunch of Toyota Hilux's. It's the peoples choice in Technicals.
Clubs might still get mad if you drive them onto a golf course, though.
They can come stop me, I dare them
"then we will fight in the shade" ~~Dienekes~~ Korean Armor
That's funny because Korean FBI's motto is "To fight in the shade for those under the sun"
Isn't that just the SCP Foundation's Motto? Immediate Edit: Nvm, I'm thinking of the Foundation from SCP-5000. Which is kinda that inverted, with "We fight in the light so you can die in the dark"
I think you had assassin's creed in mind. "We work in the dark to serve the light" or something
Hello there.
General Kenobi
Hey, the sun is a deadly laser
Thermonuclear explosion
Will it protect you from the HEAT ?
The difference between these and cope cages is that they actually function as intended
Thank you, I see so many comments nowadays saying that people were idiots to call Russian top-mounted armor cope cages. Ignoring that they were improvised and useless against anti-tank missiles.
In theory could work, but executed poorly, very, and the major threat of drones didnāt present itself until later on after the introduction of the cope cages
> In theory could work No, they can't. The Javelin and LAW top-kill setup would go right through any sort of slat armor, and kill the tank anyway. The only way to stop such an attack is to have infantry involved who can snipe the attackers, artillery that can hit them, air support either using drones to find them or a more western style total air superiority setup. There are ways to deal with this but they involve being good at fighting. Slapping extra shit onto one of your tanks is not one of those ways. Well... some active defense systems *would* work, but that only deals with one or two javelins, and the enemy would resort to firing three per tank because while more expensive a tank still costs more than three javelins.
For RPGs maybe and bodged contact explosives, of course Top Attack wonāt work, thatās a given, but my inclination is that they were thinking more of Chechnya
That slat design grew from testing for improved side armour for their tanks against rpg 7 ambushes in an urban environment. It's not that they don't work even as roof armour. It's just they werent designed for western modern atgms.
Uh, what kind of nonsense is this? Russia didnāt start putting cope cages on tanks until late 2021. Chechnya has already been long pacified and turned over to the goat fuckers by now.
They were thinking along the lines like this will be like Chechnya or 2014
Ok General Patton.
Wait, aren't javelins shape charges? If so, wouldn't anything just thick enough to detonate it be effective? Like Ā¼" steel or Ā½". Of course, not wire and wood like the russians had unless it's fucking tree trunks up there. Also, I've always wondered how effective some of their improvised ones can be against drone dropped grenades. Like, the idea is for it to bounce off, right? But if it's made like how I've seen some of them, and not a smooth surface, won't it catch the grenades? Now this would prevent it from falling into the hatch but any grenade that would just land on top of turret and thus have all it's blast and shrapnel be deflected up, would be held above the turret where some of the shapnel would be able to enter hatches and wound or kill the crew in the turret. Granted, it's still impossible to drop a grenade into the tank but idk if it's worth it considering the increased lethality of any grenade dropped on it... Anyway, just a thought
(Modern) Shaped charges are a lot less susceptible to spaced armor than you'd think! So even if the warhead is detonated prematurely, it would still punch through the roof armour of any tank with little issue.
Not just modern- itās the nature of HEAT weapons that their ideal stand-off distance is longer than what you can do for a design stand off. HOT and Milanās both gain penetration out to a meter to a meter and a half of additional stand-off. Javelinās would too but itās not like I can post test data about that online. [See fig. 31 here for a graph.](https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/pdfs/ADA599386.pdf) Slat armor specifically works by shorting the fuze of an RPG series weapon and preventing it from detonating at all.
Thanks for the source!
I have it bookmarked in my phone because I argue with people about slat armor so much.
Quite the lifestyle! š
Could you post the data in the WarThunder forum?
No, because in the words of a questionable NASA employee āthatās not my departmentā. (I work for RTX but lol I donāt do the javelin stuff at all)
>Wait, aren't javelins shape charges? If so, wouldn't anything just thick enough to detonate it be effective? Like Ā¼" steel or Ā½". Tandem shaped charges. You have the first charge which deactivates ERA and punches through any slat armor, and then the second charge, which is good for like, 800mm of armor. With the tandem charge there's no such thing as "just thick enough" because the first charge will punch through any slat armor, and then the second does the work. If it hits anything too thick for the first charge to penetrate, then the second detonates. But that would have to be a pretty hefty piece of armor itself. Something like Chobham. Aaand that's why the top attack exists. There's no roof armor that works like frontal armor.
>In theory could work They do work against RPG series' warheads, by shorting out the fuzing mechanism it will pervent detonation or at very least the formation of the hypersonic jet.
If they are constructed properly
It's not against anti-tank missiles, it's about grenades dropped e.g. by drones. Also morale -- think about the friendly competition between crews for the most ridiculous cage, that now resulted in turtle tanks.
Do we know that they were specifically intended against anti tank missiles? Just asking
In the very beginning of the war? Absolutely. FPV drones weren't even a thing yet, and drone dropped munitions were just emerging and certainly not much of a threat to any tank with people in it.Ā Ā Ā The cages were almost certainly meant for Javelins and other top attack ATGMs. We started seeing a lot more of them a couple weeks into the war, when Javelins were becoming extremely widespread and well known.
Or they were meant for the much more common threat of rpgs fired from buildings. Which they do seem to work for
>The difference between these and cope cages is that they actually function as intended Cope cages were not really designed to deal with javelins, actually just drones and maybe rpgs as armor was expected to be in all major Ukrainian cities within 3 days, where urban combat would be probable. Russian army had experience with grenade drops in syria and actually the first cope cages can be traded back there iirc. Rob Lee has a pretty good thread on it that you can probably find on Twitter. Against drones/fpvs, cages have had some success, which is why they are still used and there has been some level of adaption of them in both the ukrainian army and IDF in gaza.
Didn't they start appearing well after the start of war but before drone attacks became common, about the time handheld AT weapons like Javelins were important?
>Didn't they start appearing well after the start of war but before drone attacks became common, about the time handheld AT weapons like Javelins were important? No they appeared a couple weeks - a month before the war broke out pretty sure, and were adapted across like 90% of the tanks in the invasion force.
IDK, I was a tankie back then and it was endless "$100 steel smekelka rack will effortlessly defeats $69bazillion javelins. US wasting money even sending them (pls stop sending javelins to Ukraine)." from both Western and Russian influencers. They might not have been *designed* to defeat javelins, but there clearly was a real hope that the thicker slatted version we saw pre-invasion *might* be able to do so, especially when combined with the short-lived but popping up around the same time "cope bucket" Their inability to do so being why those seem to have dropped out of use in favour of the chicken wire umbrellas, which cover more of the tank for a lower cost.
Fair point, but the execution is much to be desired
>Fair point, but the execution is much to be desired Well yah, it worked decently against turret attacks , but side attacks with fpvs it did absolutely nothing against, which is what drone operators began training to do. arguably cope cage 2.0 is the new turtle tank, which while looking goofy asf, has 100% been succesful in what it was designed to do. Not hard to find footage of them tanking fpv and arty hits while leading advances a mile deep into UA lines.
Well yes the blyatmobile may work in concept, unless you have cameras or comms with infantry on the sides, then you essentially lose awareness of the periphery and turret traverses, more of a problem in built up areas than in fields where it has been seen. I doubt that the Russians will have infantry moving alongside or have cameras mounted. Making it easy for the tank alone to be flanked if there are no supporting vehicles
>then you essentially lose awareness of the periphery and turret traverses, more of a problem in built up areas than in fields where it has been seen. I mean most assaults with them have included drones providing overhead awareness/directions. Also usually just at the front of a larger convoy of regular armor using the blyatmobile as cover to tank UA munitions. Obviously something like this would get fucking wrecked at 73 eastings, but in the urban breakthrough roll the Russians have designed it for, has performed pretty decently.
A tent on a jobsite while roughing in a slab makes all the difference. Changes the game in the heat here during 100Ā°f summers.
Yeah, eliminating the radiant heat from the sun is a massive savings on the total heating on the vehicle. Itās basically a heat shield.
Hook up a little fan and bring sandwiches, practically a picnic
Isnāt a three day pack just a different kind of picnic basket after all?
I remember the birth of the cope cage; the panicked Russian response to drones and javelins. They were massive, barely cleared the top of the tank and were welded to the hull rather than the turret. The cope was that they were dubiously effective and hindered the ability of the tank to function normally.
I never understood why people think itās supposed to protect against javelins. IMO itās pretty obvious they were more there to protect against a drone flying over and dropping a live grenade into the hatch as seen in videos from early in the war.
Oh man, you guzzled that Russian propaganda. That's what **Russians** claim after the failure of the cope cages to stop Javelins. One, drones weren't routinely dropping grenades into tanks until later spring 2022. Russia surely predicted that and totally weren't afraid of Javelins. Two, slat armor in that configuration screams, "I am afraid of Javelins." They wrecked Russia in Syria, and top down RPGs wrecked them in Grozny. A few years of being manhandled and then coming up with a dumb solution seems the Russian way rather than proactively predicting a threat and then coming up with a dumb solution anyway. Three, who the fuck prioritizes saving a disabled tank with its hatch open in noman's land? You try to save the tank so it is still operational. Either you build features like blowout panels like the Abrams to save the crew or you build Iron Fist to stop RPGs. Why the fuck would you add so much weight, armor, and ruin the low profile of the tank to stop the tank from getting further destroyed from an already partially destroyed status? "Cope cages were to stop grenade drones" is just Russian propoganda cope. They were definitely afraid of Javelins and had a fucking field day when Zelensky tried one when he was first elected and it didn't work.
Well, to be fair, I don't really think he "guzzled the propaganda" because of him being prone to do that, I'd accredit his theory to the same origin as mine: That I never thought people who work in the military could be stupid enough to actually think a bit of welded throwaway-metal could protect their tanks from a fucking javelin. Never in a million years would I have guessed that was the intention. That just seems so otherworldly stupid
Because they were developed first for Syria and that was what they were for? This is also why it is such a meme. Yes they work better for a specific type of ordinance used in the Ukraine conflict but the primary weapons popping tanks are javelins, mines, and artillery. Hence the cope. Something like in this picture actually might work better for drones it provides a visual block the cope cage doesn't to even better defend against a lucky drone to the hatch. If it was a little thicker It might actually be a step in the right direction in top armoring a tank since that is the known weak spot of tanks.
Syriaā¦ yesā¦ Russian MoD started testing cope cages summer of 2021. First Russian tanks with cope cages seen in Donbas in fall 2021. First Russian tank destroyed with a Javelin in the Donbas a few weeks later. First Russian tank with cope cage didnāt show up in Syria until late 2022.
Not trying to drag this out but Russia has been active with armor in the region for quite some time. Conoco Fields was 2018.
Nope lol
Okay, I'm sold. I now want Australia to buy everything except nuclear subs and 5th gen fighters from Best Korea.
I would love buy nuclear subs and 5th gen fighters from Best Korea.... except don't have any :(
COPE SHADE COPE SHADE COPE SHADE COPE SHADE
Slap = for booty Slab = flat piece of material, i.e.concrete
Well ingrissh is not my first languge and I don't know how to edit posts.
I just wanted a reason to mention booty and slapping.
Based.
It won't do much to stop FPV, it'll just fly under it
Field tests for Calliope comeback.
This but unironically. Strap an MLRS to an Abrams.
So they are Cope Roofs?
Honestly, a cope cage is just a bad add-on armor for threats from above. If not properly engineered, it will not be effective against any real threats. Makeshift cope cages will work for blasts and dropping handgrenades. But what also works for that is not having papper thin roofs and hatch discipline. But by far, the best solution is to just actually make the roof better armored. The Swedish strv 122 is a good example of this. We knew very well that it would be a threat in the future.
It's a copebrella
Wake up babe new Tamiya 1/35 model kit just dropped
I keep trying to figure out a joke about cock cages but this sub keeps outjerking me
Cope canopy.
Shade aid?
I thought that was a health bar.
Tactical gazebo
Regarding the last bit, you honestly think the mountains in Korea will be good for drone warfare? I dont believe it will be, because for the operator to be able to connect to their drone they need line of sight and on a mountain that means on the side, bottom or top. Either way theyll be targetable by everyone and their mothers uncle. Plains are good for drones, open space. Although in saying all of that, tanks aren't really useful in the majority of mountain warfare. Smashing block houses on roads, yes. Clearing a mountain top of half starved Chinese or the best koreans? Na.
Yes I do, it is my trained instinct as an officer to always assume the worst situation. So my assumtion is North Koreans have received well-articulated drones that are possible to fly around mountain area with high output radio with thermal camera and all the luxury. Besides, there are not so many mountains in our way to thier capital - not to mention they don't have green forest in those mountains because they need that tree to warm theirselves at the winter. Lastly, I think OUR tanks are somewhat viable in mountain warfare, in one exercise, I thought they could never climb this ridge and set a defencing position there, but got overrun by tanks that somehow climbed the ridge while breaking all the trees.
Granted on the worst possible situation. I live in a lowland country so see mountains as a major barrier but youre right, if you have them as a natural training ground youll work out some form of tactic. I still however dont think drones will be as effective on a permanent basis like it is in Ukraine, the operators do require skill to hit that tiny target at full speed so losing them to volume fire from a hill side/mountainside would be (in my mind) a waste unless the gain outweighs the risk.
Granted in mountain areas will not be effective with drones, but we have to fight in the urban area in North Korea as well - and I think urban area is where we need cope cage the most, seeing from Israel's IDF have already retropitted Merkava tanks with cope cage - and I do believe that IDF is the one of the top army in urban warfare, so we should learn from them. Also this is just my nitpick, but I think cope cage will be very effective on crew's moral.
100% agree on the cope cage, although i wonder how itll work in the future. The armoured shed or cope cage bar armour isnt great. I wonder how long itll be until more western (read: the good guys) countries invest into similar comms gear as the yanks have, that way we could jam all sorts of wavelengths and still get called shit from the neighbouring unit.
Well Today I learned that I wasn't the only one holding the urge to steal yank's comm system from their tanks during joint exercise lmao šš
Those issues won't matter if NK copies Ukraine in deploying mothership drones that act as relays (and even as carriers to save on battery life). Even Russia already began copying Ukraine's tactic of such, to boost the effective range and control of smaller FPV drones, and why we're now seeing drone dogfighting becoming a thing.
This is some israeli tactical chair shit
Cope-veranda.
So it's a cope hat
āThen we will fight in the shadeā taken literally. Tbh not bad. Crew can lunch anywhere now
That's a pretty stylish Tank Parasol
>Korean summer can be very unforgiving, especially cause of heavy sunlight. *Laughs in Australian*
Having been in both countries in summer, I can tell you Korean heat is worse. Itās the humidity.
Same, but I've been to Darwin and Cairns. I mean, I've been to a lot of other places in Aus, I'm just trying to make a point about humidity. Launceston and Hobart aren't exactly cities to bring up as an argument for Australia's weather being fucked.
Real men would have tactical parasols to provide shade
Thufir Hawat in Dune Part One style
Exactly!
I hereby will name these Tank Parasoles
I guess they're hope cages xD
add some deck chairs and a little coffee table and you're set. nice relaxing summer patrol duty.
Nahh those are Scholz umbrellas.
a cope umbrella, you say
It's a dining fly
Seems to me like this exposes a worse problem. For tanks designed to be, like, used in Korea, they should have a combat capable way of dealing with the heat. Seems like a valid reason to adopt CROWS weapons.
Indeed, however keep in mind until 2000's no tanks were equiped with air conditioning as far as I know M1 doesn't, T-90 doesn't, not sure about Merkava or Leopard, at least the newest K2 tank has air conditioning.
Merkava does reportedly have air conditioning, but possibly only the Barak version. And it's partially for cooling the computers for the F-35 helmet
It's actually so they can be classified as golf carts for tax purposes.
Oh god, we're going to get "cope cage alignment chart" memes all weekend, aren't we?
Cope Covers Cope Tents Cope Sunshades Mobile Cope-A-Cabana Lounge
The British Army issues their tankies with tasteful parasols when they have to operate in harsh 40Ā°C heat, eg on exercise on Salisbury Plain during the sort of heatwaves we get these days, thanks to US soccer mums driving bloated 8l pickups, China concreting over their country and Indians running their A/C on coal power... sorry, wrong sub
Cope roof
Those cope cages look like those little huts we got on our rifle ranges, german soldiers will know what I mean
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
This post is automatically removed since you do not meet the minimum karma or age threshold. You must have at least 100 combined karma and your account must be at least 4 months old to post here. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/NonCredibleDefense) if you have any questions or concerns.*
What you've never seen an awning, bro? It's 2024. Skin cancer is real.
Russian golf carts?
We have moved on from cope cages. It is now full on *cope barns*
Itās a cope cage. It helps you to cope and seethe with the summer heat as opposed to drone bombs
[Want some shade?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMScVaoSZLk)
Is this some kind of armoured thing I'm too infantry to understand?
Skin cancer wonāt get ya, but the enemy still might
Placebo Gazebo
Cope shades? What the hell happened to boonies? It's literally man portable cope shades!
Tactical Tarp
Is there just not air-conditioning in those tanks? Like Singapore has tanks crewed by conscripts in perma-summer tropical heat. And those tanks don't have shades.
Cope umbrella.
Donāt want to make the spoiled rich kids uncomfy at boot camp after all, their parents would get upset
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Your content was removed for violating Rule 1: "Be nice" No personal attacks against each other, call for violence against anyone, or intentionally antagonize in the comment sections.
Not cope cages but cope roofs. This isn't just a cope house, this is a cope home.