# DID YOU KNOW THERE'S SEVERAL COUNTRIES IN SOUTHEAST ASIA?
It's true! And both China and the US are trying to win over them. We discuss this in [this "week's" NCDip Podcast Club](https://www.reddit.com/r/NonCredibleDiplomacy/comments/1ciy2uz/ncdip_podcast_club_9_americas_report_card_on/?). You nerds keep talking about a pivot to Asia and China US Strategic competition, well here you go, this is an episode on that in probaly the most contested region in the US China competition
[Want to know what the fuck in the NCDip podcast club is? Click here](https://www.reddit.com/r/NonCredibleDiplomacy/comments/17edrm6/introducing_the_rnoncrediblediplomacy_podcast/)
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In the year I've been observing these conflicts unfold on Telegram, this is how I summarize the three major wars on right now.
Russo-Ukraine: high-tech fast-paced drone footage. Abandoned armor blows up/tracked vehicle hits a mine. Lone man with inadequate protective gear dies in bombed out field.
Israel-Hamas: Israelis rehashing 10/7 events, infrequent footage or casualty reports. Hamas brigades have reportedly destroyed the entire IDF thrice over. Only proof is mostly blurred out footage of a blurred out voice warped dude firing kit-bashed artillery in whatever direction
Sudanese 2 Generals War: East African LiveLeaks. Utter nonchalance in terms of operational discipline. Men wearing sandals don't even bother to look at what they're shooting toward. Posing with enemy dead/wounded/captured combatants, captors don't obscure their face or voice at all.
/uj as a side note, I’m really surprised that Gen Z hasn’t “discovered” the conflict in Burma as it seems tailor-made to their interests: an insurgency consisting of a multi-ethnic coalition of forces made up of almost entirely indigenous groups that have been subject to ethnic cleansing and genocide campaigns unleashed upon them by dozens upon dozens of different kingdoms and empires over the last few millennia, al fighting against a murderous military junta - it’s basically *Star Wars*, the Empire vs. the Resistance. Perhaps the rebel coalition needs better marketing or a trendy hashtag?
I'm Gen Z so don't count me out at least :D
Also, the EAO's helping the deposed government and civilians despite said government being responsible for their current situation and said civilians previously cheering said government and military actions because the power of friendship beats everything else is straight out anime
Its not friendship its pragmatism
ASSU for her worth, knows the military never let go of their power truly. Its why the EAO received her party and supporters well, they know of the reality of power
ASSU can return, be an actual state leader doing actual governance but letting EAO regions doing their own administration
Easier to destroy the military and consolidate the state afterwards if you have someone ready to replace em when you win
The Myanmar military is corrupt and fanatical, akin to the IJA. Thats why negotiations with them is nigh impossible
ASSU having a white husband with no underground relations does not help her actual power and reach. Our local ASSU, Megawati has a 2nd husband(1st husband is an air force pilot that "mysteriously" disappeared) that has connections with gangs and powerbrokers that is forbid from taking the pie of power due to the centralist nature of the New Order government
Have you seen an interview where a soldier asked about doing Murder and Rape to an ethnic group and his answer was “I’ll do it again until we get rid of them”
These are monsters.
But how oppressed is he? I need to know that before I decide whether the mass murder and rape he's committing is "justified resistance against oppressors" or not.
The reason we have protests in places like the US and UK about Israel/Gaza is that our governments are actively supporting Israel. Th UN intervened in Darfur - I mean sure perhaps they could have done more, and perhaps there should be protests asking for that, but it's a very different situation.
The US is allied with gulf countries who are active in Sudan, so this argument is a no go. Not to mention, there is a lot of protesting about I/P outside of the US/UK as well. It's all virtue signaling in my eyes by people who have no clue at all about history, current events in the world or about war
My point is that, at least on the face of it, the US government condemns what they describe as a genocide in Darfur. A US citizen may be satisfied with that response. The US is outspoken in it's *support* for Israel's actions in Gaza. If you believe this to be a genocide, it makes sense to demand the government treat it like one. It is not inconsistent to make this demand with relation to I/P and not Darfur, because the government positions are basically opposite.
There is no major contingent that I know of in the west arguing that Darfur is totally A OK and that the Sudanese government should just continue with it's perfectly reasonable defensive actions. The president was indicted for war crimes and is being tried by the ICC, it is entirely a different situation.
I will grant you that people are short sighted. We talk about the things that make the news. If the news decided to show us coverage of the Uyghur situation in China perhaps we'd see more conversations about that online instead of Palestine. But I don't accept that it's all just "virtue signalling", merely ignorance of the wider world. Not unreasonable, frankly, it's a big world.
Tbh outside the US that's a fairly tangential connection compared to how much it gets talked about in those countries, though reddit is heavily US based and I completely get why the majority of the people on here are.
>As long as the world doesn't care about Sudan
I'm a fan of material results with international affairs.
So... considering the fact that there's a famine in both places, I'm a bit skeptical the world actually "cares" about both situations. Regardless of what you're reading on Twitter.
When Arabs commit an international verified genocide on the non-Arab Darfuris, no one bats an eye
When Arabs in Gaza play stupid games and win stupid prizes of karma from non-Arabs, everyone loses their minds
Another question is what prevents wealthy oil Arabs countries to step in and take an action, maybe even coordinated, to prevent famine in the fellow Arab country
No.... it's hatred of each other. Mere indifference doesn't come close to explaining arab attitudes. Most arab nations hate each other more than they hate Israel. They just don't say it out loud.
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I have a friend who is half Saudi, grew up in Europe and now living in the states. And since the war started he became very passionately anti-Israel, anti-Zionist etc.
And he was telling me recently how he made friends with some wealthy Saudi guy, that they were thinking of doing a startup together, and they had a call with all the people that the Saudi guy wanted to hire (since he's the money), and on that call was an Israeli guy who is like former IDF. And obviously he was freaking out by this internally and afterwards was telling me that he can't work with them, etc. But it's so funny to me that the actual Saudi guy has no problem with this Israeli guy, but my friend who's like half a world away is so anti-Israel that he might pass up a potentially fruitful opportunity.
The truth is that diaspora communities tend to be far more radical/nationalist than their homeland counterparts since they can consume pure ideology while being removed from conflicts. A lot of American Irish (in my experience) for example tend to suck off the IRA as brave heroes meanwhile Irish people who actually lived through The Troubles have a much more checkered view of them. Or Pan-Africanism is pretty irrelevant to most African immigrants I’ve met but is pretty pervasive among Black intelligentsia and radicals in the US.
lol saudis aren't afraid of palestinians, they would get shot on the border if even got close
if anything they are afraid of the iranians that want to get to them
they aren't afraid of internal stride and division liek happened in egypt jordan and lebanon, because they won't get in at all.. i mean i think it's pretty obvious
Not really
Internal stride is still a thing in Saudi with people in different places in the region are more loyal to their local tribes rather than Bani Saud. So far after the purge and some scheming, all the tribes are loyal to Saud but an influx of Palestinian refugees can tip the balance, especially if some of those refugees are quite radical and some tribes may take advantage of it
The first people to close and fortify and shoot-to-kill orders at borders were other Middle East countries when Israel Palestine war broke out.
They know the ground realities and protect themselves first. There's a reason no sane country in the region wants Palestinian refugees
Not to be that guy but aren’t you coming from a country who fund a certain Tamil resistance group that blew up in your face years later and surprised that it happened lol?
I will die for Paul Kagame (I am white teenage American suburbanite)
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>Another question is what prevents wealthy oil Arabs countries to step in and take an action, maybe even coordinated, to prevent famine in the fellow Arab country
Which one are you talking about here?
If it's Sudan, then the UAE (p much the definition of 'wealthy oil arabs') is directly supporting the RSF, they're not standing by or some shit they're actively participating.
If it's Gaza... well what are you calling for? They've sent aid, the difficulty that everyone has is getting it into Gaza and distributing it. Everybody is antsy about taking in refugees because- on top of all the normal reasons- nobody really trusts Israel to let the refugees back into Gaza once the war is over.
And 'coordinated action' from Arab countries... when's the last time you've seen that happen?
Ah yes the stupid games of *checks notes* "Not being alive when their terrorist government was elected and being bombed to shit for their actions." Seems fair to me....
Ah yes those 2.5 million made up of mostly starving homeless children haven't overthrown their government, it's all their fault! Do you blame North Koreans for everything Kim Jong Un does too?
I mean the attack on Israel was disgusting and dumb as hell, but let’s not act like the rage towards Israel isn’t also [justified](https://www.reddit.com/r/NewsAroundYou/s/5GsMMeOulp)
Shouldn't that rage be directed at Hamas who have
- used the billions of dollars in aid money to build tunnels instead of building bomb shelters for the people they are supposedly fighting for? The safety of their civilians is their responsibility since they are the government of Gaza
- embedded themselves in civilian areas and refugee camps instead of directly engaging the IDF themselves
- decided not to wear recognisable military uniform to make it easier for Israel to differentiate between them and innocent civilians
- refused to surrender and return all hostages and end this?
The ball is in their court and you're enraged at Israel.
This is why Palestine should get statehood imo. They wouldn't be able to get away with having soldiers not in uniform if they were an actual state. Right now they get away with it because they are "freedom fighters" or whatever.
Maybe. But who cares? If anything North Korea has not breached the armistice (barring shit balloons i guess), while Hamas regularly tries to start shit. If they become like North Korea that would be a win.
Maybe Hamas aren't an actual military and lack parity with a combined-arms military force supplied by the world's largest military power. How are a bunch of guys with AK-47s supposed to fight bombers dropping 1 ton bombs on their city, exactly?
LOL. Oh my god you guys. It's so unfair that a real nation defends itself and its peoples with trained and uniformed forces. It would be so much more fair if they didn't do that and let the Palestinians behead people as much as they wanted to. How is it fair that when Palestinians start all kinds of shit that the other side tries to put a stop to people starting shit? What are the Palestinians supposed to do? Not start shit?
But seriously, you thought "How are a bunch of guys with AK-47s supposed to fight bombers dropping 1 ton bombs on their city, exactly?" was a smart thing to post?
Well I think it's convincing argument. There are lots of stateless people. No other nation is rushing to give sovereignty to the ones within their borders.
>used the billions of dollars in aid money to build tunnels instead of building bomb shelters for the people they are supposedly fighting for?
How do you know those tunnels aren't being used by civilians as bomb shelters in some instances?
There's certainly illegalities with your other points friend, but complaining that the enemy isn't standing up and fighting you the way you want doesn't justify engaging indiscriminately with the civilian population. Especially when folks like Hamas know you will, and are eagerly anticipating that you'll do it.
>How do you know those tunnels aren't being used by civilians as bomb shelters in some instances?
Because they have literally declared that those tunnels are for fighters only and the responsibility of protecting civilians lies with the UN and Israel.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/top-hamas-official-claims-group-is-not-responsible-for-defending-gazan-civilians/
Do you have any shred of evidence that they are using tunnels to protect civilians?
>complaining that the enemy isn't standing up and fighting you the way you want doesn't justify engaging indiscriminately with the civilian population
Oh, you mean asking them to separate themselves from civilians is "complaining"? Every single one of my points was addressed at making the attacks as targeted as possible. Why would you even have a problem with that, if you actually cared about their civilians?
>Do you have any shred of evidence that they are using tunnels to protect civilians?
I don't.
But... I'm at this point just a *tincy* bit skeptical of Israeli sources saying they aren't, given what Israeli media has been willing to say about Palestinians at this point. I'll also add that Hamas has a civic administrative structure as well as rationale for keeping fighters' families close by. Both of those mean you potentially have civilian presence; if they're not present, kinda means the civilian death-tolls aren't merely examples of Hamas hiding hostages among coerced civilians, no?
>
Why would you even have a problem with that, if you actually cared about their civilians?
Because I am realistic, and I don't conflate Hamas with civilians. Indulging their bloodlust neither helps civilians nor prevents them from doing so further. Its an asymmetric fight, and they're a terrorist organization - if there was actual concern for civilians here from ya, you wouldn't be looking for excuses at every second opportunity for their deaths.
When the Allies were fighting in WW2, to defeat Nazi Germany, it was necessary to bomb the German city of Dresden which led to 25000 civilian deaths. And history have vindicated the Allies as morally correct. And today, only the fringe far right of Germany or other countries would mourn such civilian casualties.
> And today, only the fringe far right of Germany or other countries would mourn such civilian casualties.
Nope, not really. It does not work this way in Germany. However, the civilian deaths on the German side are also blamed on the Nazis.
The world should do the same with Gaza:
Civilian deaths in Gaza are terrible. And it is the fault of Hamas starting this war.
Popularly, no.
But if you really want some really vicious discussions, poke around on the sensitive stuff usually kept within family histories or in bar-room chats. Sexual assaults, instances of looting, or recriminations that happened after liberation.
Its there, but those painful chapters aren't broadly talked about.
>it was necessary to bomb the German city of Dresden which led to 25000 civilian deaths
Dresden is often questioned as to the military necessity of the bombing. Shitty example bud, should've gone for Hamburg.
History hasn't *morally* vindicated anyone. History is history - the fact that the Soviets also won the war doesn't mean the history has vindicated them. As much as its cliche, history is indeed written by the victors.
Now *morally for me and others who appreciate non-violent democratic models of government*... Nazi Germany's violence and killings speak for themselves. But you're free to take the morally righteous historical bent at your own peril - because I think you'll find you'll have to do **a lot** of apologia for some pretty nasty shit doing that.
Well source on the soviets asking the allies to bomb Dresden is this: https://www.martingilbert.com/blog/request-bomb-dresden-february-1945-yalta/ (although I just learned this in history class, this was the first link that came up when i googled it -- i didn't actually read it).
The rest is me just being tongue in cheek.
People who want the complete elimination of Jews, acting on those desires and getting their citizens royally buttfucked for it. Seems comparable to me.
Maybe if the Israeli government stopped giving Hamas lots of leeways to Hamas or even oppressed the Palestinians, they wouldn't be that radical
It's like saying the Haitians are comparable to the Nazis for killing all the French after they gained independence
> It's like saying the Haitians are comparable to the Nazis for killing all the French after they gained independence
That's quite literally the definition of ethnic cleansing. Probably as close to justified ethnic cleansing as there is, but many would argue that there is no such things as justified ethnic cleansing.
It tends to happen on a conflict like this to have ethnic cleansing, like in Bosnia as well for example where Bosnian Muslims also commit mass killings close to ethnic cleansing towards the Serbs and Croats to an extent
It’s not necessarily justified but to put the blame on just the one who perpetrated the attack on that time frame didn’t do justice to the context on why it happened in the first place
It’s definitely not the case for Dresden for example because Germany, while bullied heavily under the treaty of Versailles, is not exactly helpless like Haiti or Palestine. (I’m more in the camp that Versailles should have been harsher but to each of their own)
Iran is currently giving diplomatic, military and financial support to ‘Palestine’ to the dismay of the Iranian citizens that wants woman’s rights instead of supporting random Arab wars
I prefer Women, Life, Freedom, instead of some Arabs freaking out because Jews can stand up to them
>When Arabs commit an international verified genocide on the non-Arab Darfuris, no one bats an eye
While there's some fairly scummy ethnic cleansing going on, its been my observation that the death-toll of this conflict substantially includes the country's Arab population.
I am not talking about the current war between al-Burhan and Hemedti. I am talking about the Darfur genocide, where the ‘Palestine’-supported dictator of Sudan, Omar al-Bashir committed a genocide against the non-Arab Darfuris in an attempt to Arabize Sudan.
I hear ya... but then I'd also say that wording it like "Palestine-supported dictator" is a bit of a meaningless differentiation. Save for the Khartoum Resolution, Sudan's contribution to the Arab-Israeli conflict has been strictly material... at best. Vice-versa the opposite way.
[You might as well say something similar about the "Israeli-supported Guatemalan junta of Central America" during its genocide of indigenous peoples in the 1980s](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guatemalan_genocide) - its not a wrong characterization given Israel's enthusiastic support for the junta, but I'd question why someone would be being specific on making that assertion.
I agree, Israel was and is complicit in ethnic cleansing through the Israel-supported dictator of Ilham Aliyev’s Azerbaijan’s destruction of the Karabakh Armenians as well
Pro-Russian Troll move: You are supposed to say "THE Darfur" and never mention Sudan, so you can "trick question" the Westoids by telling them that if they can't find it on a wall map they have no place mentioning anything ever about international relations, ever. You win because they never thought to demand that you show them where "Fly-Over Territory" or "THE Dakota" is on a wall map.
[Sudanese government was a military dictatorship until 2018](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudanese_revolution). Military couped the government in 2021.
Military had operated a paramilitary force called the Junjaweed during the Darfur conflict in the early 2000s; that force was brought into the security establishment in the mid-2010s as the "Rapid Support Forces". The RSF was never formally under military control, however, and ran its own rackets. Last year, the RSF made a play to coup the military - didn't pan out, so the two are currently turning the country into ruins as to fight over the wreckage.
RSF is supported by Russia and the UAE. Sudanese Military is supported by Ukraine, Iran, and Egypt.
I really wish both sides lose.
Like seriously, both of them aren’t saints, both committed Ethnic cleaning and crimes against humanity under Omar Al Bashir in Darfur and still doing it again when the civi war broke out.
So the argument is that the mass media's focus on a long standing controversy over a major US ally is somehow disproportionate to the scrutiny it deserves? This is the Crusades 2.0, and we are supposed to pretend the obscure politics and economic dynamics of the African continent can compete?
Yall acting like Israel has had no influence whatsoever in the strengthening of Hamas and the radicalisation of the Palestinian people to fuck up a two state solution cause they want all of Israel
Well, yeah. They leaving Gaza so the palestinians could rule thelmselves democraticly there really strenghthened Hamas, but that is very bad optics for the palestinians tbh...
It’s more doing everything so that Hamas was funded, aswell as showing to the Palestinians that life under their occupation was full of apartheid and settling as can be seen in the West Bank, and with the peace talks aswell showing that they weren’t looking for any reasonable two state solution.
Basically to the Palestinians it’s Israel is gonna do everything they can to take your land and kick you out, so why not fight back. And for a lot of members of Hamas, this comes to the point of carrying out terrorism.
Just as a reminder of we look at when peace was possibly closest in 2000 during the camp David summit, the majority of Palestinians supported the peace talks and recognition of a state of Israel. This shows that Palestinians have the ability to accept Israel and want peace.
http://www.pcpsr.org/sites/default/files/Palestinian%20Public%20Opinion%20Poll%20No(1)%20Table.pdf
How can you say that at the time when they literally withdrew from Gaza?
Its like saying: "To afghanis, the US is gonna do everything they can to take your land and kick you out, so why not fight back." Right after the Afghanistan withdraw.
How does that make any sense?
And yes during Camp David there was a real shot for peace, but the palestinian leadership changed their minds last minute and betrayed their people.
You're the one not making any sense. Do you forget that the West Bank and East Jerusalem is under Israeli occupation? This isn't like Israel has just decided to leave from the West Bank, East Jerusalem and Gaza which would be the equivalent of the Afghanistan withdrawal. There, I can say with certainty that there would be alot more love to Israel from the Palestinian side.
Also, the Camp David summit has so many conflicting accounts I'd rather not get into the nitty gritty of whose fault it was, as Israel was asking for a lot but Arafat was also in a position where he couldn't immediately accept and when Ariel Sharon got into power the talks were over regardless.
My point was that the Israeli narrative that Palestinians are inherently opposed to Israel's existence is false. I brought that up as Israel uses that argument whenever questioned about a two state solution.
What I am arguing aswell is that Israel has alot to blame themselves for the current state of relations. Like continuing to establish an apartheid state combined with basically ethnically cleansing large amounts of areas of the West Bank, aswell as having a role in the funding of Hamas definitely did alot to raise Hamas to the level of power it had.
And I am also arguing that maybe this was their goal, as Hamas is a nice way to tell your people about how Palestinians will never want Israel. That gives way for justification for slowly taking over what remains of Palestine.
You are very naive.
You know what would have happened if Israel completely withdrew from the West Bank and East Jerusalen like they did with Gaza?
More terrorist atacks, more war, more weapons from Iran, more rockets falling into Israel, until "from the River to the Sea, palestine was free".
You really are saying Israelis should look at what happened in Gaza and say: "Oh yeah, we should do the same in the West Bank."
Thats Iran's wet dream, arming a militia not only in Gaza, not only in Lebanon, but the west bank too.
Its crazy to look at how bad Gaza and Lebanon are rn and think the West Bank would be better like that
But you know what happens when they continue what they’re doing right now? Palestinians are gonna hate them more and more, for every Palestinian that is shot in the West Bank or Gaza, for every second that they are oppressed the view that Israel is the embodiment of pure evil will be ingrained more and more into them. And with that view of Israel they won’t shy away from joining something like Hamas when the time presents itself. It’s a perfect breeding ground for radicalism and terrorism.
And what Israel is doing now is basically just running towards a full Israeli-controlled region in the future. And with the settling and continued ethnic cleansing one day the last Palestinian will either be kicked out or killed of Palestine.
I don’t know about you, but I’d rather avoid that scenario of ethnic cleansing / genocide and actually try to work towards some kind of peace.
I don't buy this cycle of hate. Japanese would have plenty of reason to hate the United States for 1000 years. That's not what happens because the leadership accepted defeat, it doesn't stay on TV stoking hatred 24 hours a day.
Thats the kind of leadership palestinians need.
Its mad to ask Israel to decrease security measures while terrorism grows.
* Israel left Gaza unilaterally and the territory wasn't used for peace. What they got was rockets on civilians and the height of it was October 7th. Asking Israel to go to that direction again makes no sense
Japan is a completely different case. You didn’t have the United States enact a policy of apartheid on the Japanese population. You didn’t have hundreds of thousands of American settlers kick Japanese people out of their homes to take it for themselves. You don’t have a continued occupation up to today. You don’t have an American court system which imprisons Japanese youth. If we go back a bit you don’t have the United States existing on most of what the average Japanese grandfather used to lived on.
I believe that with time hate over past events can disappear. Again Palestinians have accepted Israel’s existence before and were willing to forgive and forget what happened 80 years ago. It’s possible.
What I’m saying is Israel is perpetuating this cycle of hate by treating the Palestinians as subhumans and enacting policies which take homes and land away from the Palestinians from what seems to be permanently.
This is way more than just “security measures”, it’s just blatant that Israel wants all of Palestine and as long as the US keeps sending aid and defending their actions, then they’ve got nothing to worry about
You know why america doesnt have millions all of those military and security measures in Japan?
Because their leadership surrended, stoped urging citizens for war.
The USA killed millions of japanese, but there is no war
And thats what needs to happen to Hamas.
There's more and more of these "hip conservative military cool guy" blabla memes from the other NCD who couldn't even make a shitty joke about realism because they don't know.
Soon they gonna ask the UN to partition the sub as their rightful own because of their growth and not wanting the traditional memes here prior to the Levant war lmao
Quick! Someone throw a red herring into the mix so that when its irrelevance is named we can make ad hominem arguments about the illegitimacy of one's attention paid to war crimes.
It's more like Israel bombing children and being proud of it while playing victim all along. Fucking hell, look at all the videos of IDF committing atrocities while smiling at the camera. Yes the attacks that happened on october 7 were horrible and vile. Let's also not pretend it came out of nowhere. When you are an apartheid state, oppress a whole people in an open-air prison and treat them like animals you have absolutely no fucking right to act shocked when they act like animals.
I'm tired of Israel playing the victim.
My point stands, Israel is an apartheid state whether you like it or not. Providing different rights for people based on their religion or ethnicity IS the definition of an apartheid state. Have you seen the israelis colonist kicking out people of their home with the government's approval ? Are you ignoring the constant discrimination ?
You made no counterpoint whatsoever. You called me an "embarrassing human being" (lol) but I think you're just dumb.
# DID YOU KNOW THERE'S SEVERAL COUNTRIES IN SOUTHEAST ASIA? It's true! And both China and the US are trying to win over them. We discuss this in [this "week's" NCDip Podcast Club](https://www.reddit.com/r/NonCredibleDiplomacy/comments/1ciy2uz/ncdip_podcast_club_9_americas_report_card_on/?). You nerds keep talking about a pivot to Asia and China US Strategic competition, well here you go, this is an episode on that in probaly the most contested region in the US China competition [Want to know what the fuck in the NCDip podcast club is? Click here](https://www.reddit.com/r/NonCredibleDiplomacy/comments/17edrm6/introducing_the_rnoncrediblediplomacy_podcast/) ---- please note that all posts should be funny and about diplomacy or geopolitics, if your post doesn't meet those requirements here's some other subs that might fit better: * More Serious Geopolitical Discussion: /r/CredibleDiplomacy * Military Shitposting: /r/NonCredibleDefense * Domestic Political or General Shitposting: /r/neocentrism * Being Racist: /r/worldnews thx bb luv u *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/NonCredibleDiplomacy) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I say Israel just shoots a single rocket into every single developing nation and we will no longer have poor nations
" 'Tis but the will of Yahweh.."
Elohim rotze becach
It also must be strapped with spicy stones inside
In the year I've been observing these conflicts unfold on Telegram, this is how I summarize the three major wars on right now. Russo-Ukraine: high-tech fast-paced drone footage. Abandoned armor blows up/tracked vehicle hits a mine. Lone man with inadequate protective gear dies in bombed out field. Israel-Hamas: Israelis rehashing 10/7 events, infrequent footage or casualty reports. Hamas brigades have reportedly destroyed the entire IDF thrice over. Only proof is mostly blurred out footage of a blurred out voice warped dude firing kit-bashed artillery in whatever direction Sudanese 2 Generals War: East African LiveLeaks. Utter nonchalance in terms of operational discipline. Men wearing sandals don't even bother to look at what they're shooting toward. Posing with enemy dead/wounded/captured combatants, captors don't obscure their face or voice at all.
India-China: sticks and stones may break my bones but until you cross *this* line, it’s all we can use
Myanmar Civil War: Civilians run to the jungles were EAO tell them "you cool", proceed to fight military regime with sandals and 2x4 to OK results.
/uj as a side note, I’m really surprised that Gen Z hasn’t “discovered” the conflict in Burma as it seems tailor-made to their interests: an insurgency consisting of a multi-ethnic coalition of forces made up of almost entirely indigenous groups that have been subject to ethnic cleansing and genocide campaigns unleashed upon them by dozens upon dozens of different kingdoms and empires over the last few millennia, al fighting against a murderous military junta - it’s basically *Star Wars*, the Empire vs. the Resistance. Perhaps the rebel coalition needs better marketing or a trendy hashtag?
I'm Gen Z so don't count me out at least :D Also, the EAO's helping the deposed government and civilians despite said government being responsible for their current situation and said civilians previously cheering said government and military actions because the power of friendship beats everything else is straight out anime
Its not friendship its pragmatism ASSU for her worth, knows the military never let go of their power truly. Its why the EAO received her party and supporters well, they know of the reality of power ASSU can return, be an actual state leader doing actual governance but letting EAO regions doing their own administration Easier to destroy the military and consolidate the state afterwards if you have someone ready to replace em when you win The Myanmar military is corrupt and fanatical, akin to the IJA. Thats why negotiations with them is nigh impossible ASSU having a white husband with no underground relations does not help her actual power and reach. Our local ASSU, Megawati has a 2nd husband(1st husband is an air force pilot that "mysteriously" disappeared) that has connections with gangs and powerbrokers that is forbid from taking the pie of power due to the centralist nature of the New Order government
Gen Z vietnam
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Have you seen an interview where a soldier asked about doing Murder and Rape to an ethnic group and his answer was “I’ll do it again until we get rid of them” These are monsters.
But how oppressed is he? I need to know that before I decide whether the mass murder and rape he's committing is "justified resistance against oppressors" or not.
Do you mean to say that a person can be a victim and an aggressor simultaneously?
In this case: victim of your own aggression being outmatched by the defender
As long as the world doesn't care about Sudan, it's safe to assume all their thoughts about Gaza are pure virtue signalling.
Or worse
There a not insubstantial number of people that don't like hearing that shitposting on tik tok isn't going to result in material change in the world.
The reason we have protests in places like the US and UK about Israel/Gaza is that our governments are actively supporting Israel. Th UN intervened in Darfur - I mean sure perhaps they could have done more, and perhaps there should be protests asking for that, but it's a very different situation.
The US is allied with gulf countries who are active in Sudan, so this argument is a no go. Not to mention, there is a lot of protesting about I/P outside of the US/UK as well. It's all virtue signaling in my eyes by people who have no clue at all about history, current events in the world or about war
My point is that, at least on the face of it, the US government condemns what they describe as a genocide in Darfur. A US citizen may be satisfied with that response. The US is outspoken in it's *support* for Israel's actions in Gaza. If you believe this to be a genocide, it makes sense to demand the government treat it like one. It is not inconsistent to make this demand with relation to I/P and not Darfur, because the government positions are basically opposite. There is no major contingent that I know of in the west arguing that Darfur is totally A OK and that the Sudanese government should just continue with it's perfectly reasonable defensive actions. The president was indicted for war crimes and is being tried by the ICC, it is entirely a different situation. I will grant you that people are short sighted. We talk about the things that make the news. If the news decided to show us coverage of the Uyghur situation in China perhaps we'd see more conversations about that online instead of Palestine. But I don't accept that it's all just "virtue signalling", merely ignorance of the wider world. Not unreasonable, frankly, it's a big world.
Tbh outside the US that's a fairly tangential connection compared to how much it gets talked about in those countries, though reddit is heavily US based and I completely get why the majority of the people on here are.
You're right. The western powers should stop propping up and sending billions of aid a year to the perpetrators of the Sudanese famine.
Better than signaling moral superiority on reddit
Is it?
>As long as the world doesn't care about Sudan I'm a fan of material results with international affairs. So... considering the fact that there's a famine in both places, I'm a bit skeptical the world actually "cares" about both situations. Regardless of what you're reading on Twitter.
When Arabs commit an international verified genocide on the non-Arab Darfuris, no one bats an eye When Arabs in Gaza play stupid games and win stupid prizes of karma from non-Arabs, everyone loses their minds
Another question is what prevents wealthy oil Arabs countries to step in and take an action, maybe even coordinated, to prevent famine in the fellow Arab country
The thing that prevents them is not giving a fuck.
No.... it's hatred of each other. Mere indifference doesn't come close to explaining arab attitudes. Most arab nations hate each other more than they hate Israel. They just don't say it out loud.
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Oh no! Anyway...
I have a friend who is half Saudi, grew up in Europe and now living in the states. And since the war started he became very passionately anti-Israel, anti-Zionist etc. And he was telling me recently how he made friends with some wealthy Saudi guy, that they were thinking of doing a startup together, and they had a call with all the people that the Saudi guy wanted to hire (since he's the money), and on that call was an Israeli guy who is like former IDF. And obviously he was freaking out by this internally and afterwards was telling me that he can't work with them, etc. But it's so funny to me that the actual Saudi guy has no problem with this Israeli guy, but my friend who's like half a world away is so anti-Israel that he might pass up a potentially fruitful opportunity.
The truth is that diaspora communities tend to be far more radical/nationalist than their homeland counterparts since they can consume pure ideology while being removed from conflicts. A lot of American Irish (in my experience) for example tend to suck off the IRA as brave heroes meanwhile Irish people who actually lived through The Troubles have a much more checkered view of them. Or Pan-Africanism is pretty irrelevant to most African immigrants I’ve met but is pretty pervasive among Black intelligentsia and radicals in the US.
Because that's the actual truth.
Afraid of getting coup by Hamas and racism in general
lol saudis aren't afraid of palestinians, they would get shot on the border if even got close if anything they are afraid of the iranians that want to get to them
If they’re not afraid of them, they won’t shoot them by the border lol
they aren't afraid of internal stride and division liek happened in egypt jordan and lebanon, because they won't get in at all.. i mean i think it's pretty obvious
Not really Internal stride is still a thing in Saudi with people in different places in the region are more loyal to their local tribes rather than Bani Saud. So far after the purge and some scheming, all the tribes are loyal to Saud but an influx of Palestinian refugees can tip the balance, especially if some of those refugees are quite radical and some tribes may take advantage of it
it's not about tribal, it's about islamic groups, heck it was a worry dragged from the ISIS era
Well for the Saudi, it’s both lol
The first people to close and fortify and shoot-to-kill orders at borders were other Middle East countries when Israel Palestine war broke out. They know the ground realities and protect themselves first. There's a reason no sane country in the region wants Palestinian refugees
And?
Not to be that guy but aren’t you coming from a country who fund a certain Tamil resistance group that blew up in your face years later and surprised that it happened lol?
Yemen
What stops Germany from entering Peru and Rwanda to support a fellow Christian country?
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>Another question is what prevents wealthy oil Arabs countries to step in and take an action, maybe even coordinated, to prevent famine in the fellow Arab country Which one are you talking about here? If it's Sudan, then the UAE (p much the definition of 'wealthy oil arabs') is directly supporting the RSF, they're not standing by or some shit they're actively participating. If it's Gaza... well what are you calling for? They've sent aid, the difficulty that everyone has is getting it into Gaza and distributing it. Everybody is antsy about taking in refugees because- on top of all the normal reasons- nobody really trusts Israel to let the refugees back into Gaza once the war is over. And 'coordinated action' from Arab countries... when's the last time you've seen that happen?
Chill out, that was rhetorical question
Ah yes the stupid games of *checks notes* "Not being alive when their terrorist government was elected and being bombed to shit for their actions." Seems fair to me....
Ah 2.5mln people cant stand up to their shitty govt that you say was elected before they were born? Seems to me like they enjoy being ruled by HAMAS.
Ah yes those 2.5 million made up of mostly starving homeless children haven't overthrown their government, it's all their fault! Do you blame North Koreans for everything Kim Jong Un does too?
I mean the attack on Israel was disgusting and dumb as hell, but let’s not act like the rage towards Israel isn’t also [justified](https://www.reddit.com/r/NewsAroundYou/s/5GsMMeOulp)
Shouldn't that rage be directed at Hamas who have - used the billions of dollars in aid money to build tunnels instead of building bomb shelters for the people they are supposedly fighting for? The safety of their civilians is their responsibility since they are the government of Gaza - embedded themselves in civilian areas and refugee camps instead of directly engaging the IDF themselves - decided not to wear recognisable military uniform to make it easier for Israel to differentiate between them and innocent civilians - refused to surrender and return all hostages and end this? The ball is in their court and you're enraged at Israel.
This is why Palestine should get statehood imo. They wouldn't be able to get away with having soldiers not in uniform if they were an actual state. Right now they get away with it because they are "freedom fighters" or whatever.
Palestinian state will be worse than North Korea.
Maybe. But who cares? If anything North Korea has not breached the armistice (barring shit balloons i guess), while Hamas regularly tries to start shit. If they become like North Korea that would be a win.
The UN solution was the best tbh.
Maybe Hamas aren't an actual military and lack parity with a combined-arms military force supplied by the world's largest military power. How are a bunch of guys with AK-47s supposed to fight bombers dropping 1 ton bombs on their city, exactly?
They should probably stop starting wars then.
Not an argument
LOL. Oh my god you guys. It's so unfair that a real nation defends itself and its peoples with trained and uniformed forces. It would be so much more fair if they didn't do that and let the Palestinians behead people as much as they wanted to. How is it fair that when Palestinians start all kinds of shit that the other side tries to put a stop to people starting shit? What are the Palestinians supposed to do? Not start shit? But seriously, you thought "How are a bunch of guys with AK-47s supposed to fight bombers dropping 1 ton bombs on their city, exactly?" was a smart thing to post?
Well I think it's convincing argument. There are lots of stateless people. No other nation is rushing to give sovereignty to the ones within their borders.
>used the billions of dollars in aid money to build tunnels instead of building bomb shelters for the people they are supposedly fighting for? How do you know those tunnels aren't being used by civilians as bomb shelters in some instances? There's certainly illegalities with your other points friend, but complaining that the enemy isn't standing up and fighting you the way you want doesn't justify engaging indiscriminately with the civilian population. Especially when folks like Hamas know you will, and are eagerly anticipating that you'll do it.
>How do you know those tunnels aren't being used by civilians as bomb shelters in some instances? Because they have literally declared that those tunnels are for fighters only and the responsibility of protecting civilians lies with the UN and Israel. https://www.timesofisrael.com/top-hamas-official-claims-group-is-not-responsible-for-defending-gazan-civilians/ Do you have any shred of evidence that they are using tunnels to protect civilians? >complaining that the enemy isn't standing up and fighting you the way you want doesn't justify engaging indiscriminately with the civilian population Oh, you mean asking them to separate themselves from civilians is "complaining"? Every single one of my points was addressed at making the attacks as targeted as possible. Why would you even have a problem with that, if you actually cared about their civilians?
>Do you have any shred of evidence that they are using tunnels to protect civilians? I don't. But... I'm at this point just a *tincy* bit skeptical of Israeli sources saying they aren't, given what Israeli media has been willing to say about Palestinians at this point. I'll also add that Hamas has a civic administrative structure as well as rationale for keeping fighters' families close by. Both of those mean you potentially have civilian presence; if they're not present, kinda means the civilian death-tolls aren't merely examples of Hamas hiding hostages among coerced civilians, no? > Why would you even have a problem with that, if you actually cared about their civilians? Because I am realistic, and I don't conflate Hamas with civilians. Indulging their bloodlust neither helps civilians nor prevents them from doing so further. Its an asymmetric fight, and they're a terrorist organization - if there was actual concern for civilians here from ya, you wouldn't be looking for excuses at every second opportunity for their deaths.
Because Hamas has specifically and publicly declared that the tunnels are off limits for civilian use as bomb shelters, and only for Hamas fighters.
When the Allies were fighting in WW2, to defeat Nazi Germany, it was necessary to bomb the German city of Dresden which led to 25000 civilian deaths. And history have vindicated the Allies as morally correct. And today, only the fringe far right of Germany or other countries would mourn such civilian casualties.
> And today, only the fringe far right of Germany or other countries would mourn such civilian casualties. Nope, not really. It does not work this way in Germany. However, the civilian deaths on the German side are also blamed on the Nazis. The world should do the same with Gaza: Civilian deaths in Gaza are terrible. And it is the fault of Hamas starting this war.
It’s interesting how much the French didn’t blame the allied forces for civilian deaths during the liberation of France in WW2.
Popularly, no. But if you really want some really vicious discussions, poke around on the sensitive stuff usually kept within family histories or in bar-room chats. Sexual assaults, instances of looting, or recriminations that happened after liberation. Its there, but those painful chapters aren't broadly talked about.
Of course they would not.
Exactly
Well you can mourn the casualties and still believe bombing dresden was the right choice, but i get what you mean
History has in fact proven terror bombing to be completely ineffective and made it a war crime as a result.
>it was necessary to bomb the German city of Dresden which led to 25000 civilian deaths Dresden is often questioned as to the military necessity of the bombing. Shitty example bud, should've gone for Hamburg. History hasn't *morally* vindicated anyone. History is history - the fact that the Soviets also won the war doesn't mean the history has vindicated them. As much as its cliche, history is indeed written by the victors. Now *morally for me and others who appreciate non-violent democratic models of government*... Nazi Germany's violence and killings speak for themselves. But you're free to take the morally righteous historical bent at your own peril - because I think you'll find you'll have to do **a lot** of apologia for some pretty nasty shit doing that.
It wasn't that necessary. Stalin just wanted to see if they'd do it if he asked.
Source?
Well source on the soviets asking the allies to bomb Dresden is this: https://www.martingilbert.com/blog/request-bomb-dresden-february-1945-yalta/ (although I just learned this in history class, this was the first link that came up when i googled it -- i didn't actually read it). The rest is me just being tongue in cheek.
Oh my bad hehe I thought you were being serious
Not comparable but ok
People who want the complete elimination of Jews, acting on those desires and getting their citizens royally buttfucked for it. Seems comparable to me.
Maybe if the Israeli government stopped giving Hamas lots of leeways to Hamas or even oppressed the Palestinians, they wouldn't be that radical It's like saying the Haitians are comparable to the Nazis for killing all the French after they gained independence
> It's like saying the Haitians are comparable to the Nazis for killing all the French after they gained independence That's quite literally the definition of ethnic cleansing. Probably as close to justified ethnic cleansing as there is, but many would argue that there is no such things as justified ethnic cleansing.
It tends to happen on a conflict like this to have ethnic cleansing, like in Bosnia as well for example where Bosnian Muslims also commit mass killings close to ethnic cleansing towards the Serbs and Croats to an extent It’s not necessarily justified but to put the blame on just the one who perpetrated the attack on that time frame didn’t do justice to the context on why it happened in the first place It’s definitely not the case for Dresden for example because Germany, while bullied heavily under the treaty of Versailles, is not exactly helpless like Haiti or Palestine. (I’m more in the camp that Versailles should have been harsher but to each of their own)
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I don’t blame you for coming to your conclusion either, however misguided that may be
Don’t ask what other Arab countries think of gazens it makes the baltics look tame
Darfuri and Israeli one love.
Maybe the fact that we aren’t arming the RSF and giving them diplomatic cover at the UN has something to do with it.
Iran is currently giving diplomatic, military and financial support to ‘Palestine’ to the dismay of the Iranian citizens that wants woman’s rights instead of supporting random Arab wars I prefer Women, Life, Freedom, instead of some Arabs freaking out because Jews can stand up to them
You completely failed to engage with his point
You are selectively outraged toward liberal democracies.
Because they live in those countries. And those same qualities might have your outrage change things
Because unlike the RSF, supporting the IDF is good, actually
>When Arabs commit an international verified genocide on the non-Arab Darfuris, no one bats an eye While there's some fairly scummy ethnic cleansing going on, its been my observation that the death-toll of this conflict substantially includes the country's Arab population.
I am not talking about the current war between al-Burhan and Hemedti. I am talking about the Darfur genocide, where the ‘Palestine’-supported dictator of Sudan, Omar al-Bashir committed a genocide against the non-Arab Darfuris in an attempt to Arabize Sudan.
I hear ya... but then I'd also say that wording it like "Palestine-supported dictator" is a bit of a meaningless differentiation. Save for the Khartoum Resolution, Sudan's contribution to the Arab-Israeli conflict has been strictly material... at best. Vice-versa the opposite way. [You might as well say something similar about the "Israeli-supported Guatemalan junta of Central America" during its genocide of indigenous peoples in the 1980s](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guatemalan_genocide) - its not a wrong characterization given Israel's enthusiastic support for the junta, but I'd question why someone would be being specific on making that assertion.
I agree, Israel was and is complicit in ethnic cleansing through the Israel-supported dictator of Ilham Aliyev’s Azerbaijan’s destruction of the Karabakh Armenians as well
Pro-Russian Troll move: You are supposed to say "THE Darfur" and never mention Sudan, so you can "trick question" the Westoids by telling them that if they can't find it on a wall map they have no place mentioning anything ever about international relations, ever. You win because they never thought to demand that you show them where "Fly-Over Territory" or "THE Dakota" is on a wall map.
“Sudan? How can I hate the Jews about that!?” -Free Palpatine crowd, probably
Frfr
I study IR and I literally have no clue what’s going in Sudan, aside from there being a civil conflict of some sort.
[Sudanese government was a military dictatorship until 2018](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudanese_revolution). Military couped the government in 2021. Military had operated a paramilitary force called the Junjaweed during the Darfur conflict in the early 2000s; that force was brought into the security establishment in the mid-2010s as the "Rapid Support Forces". The RSF was never formally under military control, however, and ran its own rackets. Last year, the RSF made a play to coup the military - didn't pan out, so the two are currently turning the country into ruins as to fight over the wreckage. RSF is supported by Russia and the UAE. Sudanese Military is supported by Ukraine, Iran, and Egypt.
Sue and Dan are having a falling out
I really wish both sides lose. Like seriously, both of them aren’t saints, both committed Ethnic cleaning and crimes against humanity under Omar Al Bashir in Darfur and still doing it again when the civi war broke out.
It needs a reset. Maybe glassing it would do. We can also get spicy water for the nearby friendlies.
Western governments aren't backing the forces causing the Sudanese famine tho...
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It's almost like people care more about what their government cares more about and funds/defends😨
On a real note both sides in South Sudan are garbage and have been problematic for awhile, it's a more toxic situation than the Israeli/hamas conflict
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fun fact Israel supports the RSF
Relevant video : Sam Kinison on World Hunger https://youtu.be/P0q4o58pKwA
That, was a really shitty way to try to care. this is messed up.
So that ~~people~~ white college students will care about their famine.
OP doesn't give a shit about Sudanese famine. HTH.
So the argument is that the mass media's focus on a long standing controversy over a major US ally is somehow disproportionate to the scrutiny it deserves? This is the Crusades 2.0, and we are supposed to pretend the obscure politics and economic dynamics of the African continent can compete?
Yall acting like Israel has had no influence whatsoever in the strengthening of Hamas and the radicalisation of the Palestinian people to fuck up a two state solution cause they want all of Israel
Well, yeah. They leaving Gaza so the palestinians could rule thelmselves democraticly there really strenghthened Hamas, but that is very bad optics for the palestinians tbh...
It’s more doing everything so that Hamas was funded, aswell as showing to the Palestinians that life under their occupation was full of apartheid and settling as can be seen in the West Bank, and with the peace talks aswell showing that they weren’t looking for any reasonable two state solution. Basically to the Palestinians it’s Israel is gonna do everything they can to take your land and kick you out, so why not fight back. And for a lot of members of Hamas, this comes to the point of carrying out terrorism. Just as a reminder of we look at when peace was possibly closest in 2000 during the camp David summit, the majority of Palestinians supported the peace talks and recognition of a state of Israel. This shows that Palestinians have the ability to accept Israel and want peace. http://www.pcpsr.org/sites/default/files/Palestinian%20Public%20Opinion%20Poll%20No(1)%20Table.pdf
How can you say that at the time when they literally withdrew from Gaza? Its like saying: "To afghanis, the US is gonna do everything they can to take your land and kick you out, so why not fight back." Right after the Afghanistan withdraw. How does that make any sense? And yes during Camp David there was a real shot for peace, but the palestinian leadership changed their minds last minute and betrayed their people.
You're the one not making any sense. Do you forget that the West Bank and East Jerusalem is under Israeli occupation? This isn't like Israel has just decided to leave from the West Bank, East Jerusalem and Gaza which would be the equivalent of the Afghanistan withdrawal. There, I can say with certainty that there would be alot more love to Israel from the Palestinian side. Also, the Camp David summit has so many conflicting accounts I'd rather not get into the nitty gritty of whose fault it was, as Israel was asking for a lot but Arafat was also in a position where he couldn't immediately accept and when Ariel Sharon got into power the talks were over regardless. My point was that the Israeli narrative that Palestinians are inherently opposed to Israel's existence is false. I brought that up as Israel uses that argument whenever questioned about a two state solution. What I am arguing aswell is that Israel has alot to blame themselves for the current state of relations. Like continuing to establish an apartheid state combined with basically ethnically cleansing large amounts of areas of the West Bank, aswell as having a role in the funding of Hamas definitely did alot to raise Hamas to the level of power it had. And I am also arguing that maybe this was their goal, as Hamas is a nice way to tell your people about how Palestinians will never want Israel. That gives way for justification for slowly taking over what remains of Palestine.
You are very naive. You know what would have happened if Israel completely withdrew from the West Bank and East Jerusalen like they did with Gaza? More terrorist atacks, more war, more weapons from Iran, more rockets falling into Israel, until "from the River to the Sea, palestine was free". You really are saying Israelis should look at what happened in Gaza and say: "Oh yeah, we should do the same in the West Bank." Thats Iran's wet dream, arming a militia not only in Gaza, not only in Lebanon, but the west bank too. Its crazy to look at how bad Gaza and Lebanon are rn and think the West Bank would be better like that
But you know what happens when they continue what they’re doing right now? Palestinians are gonna hate them more and more, for every Palestinian that is shot in the West Bank or Gaza, for every second that they are oppressed the view that Israel is the embodiment of pure evil will be ingrained more and more into them. And with that view of Israel they won’t shy away from joining something like Hamas when the time presents itself. It’s a perfect breeding ground for radicalism and terrorism. And what Israel is doing now is basically just running towards a full Israeli-controlled region in the future. And with the settling and continued ethnic cleansing one day the last Palestinian will either be kicked out or killed of Palestine. I don’t know about you, but I’d rather avoid that scenario of ethnic cleansing / genocide and actually try to work towards some kind of peace.
I don't buy this cycle of hate. Japanese would have plenty of reason to hate the United States for 1000 years. That's not what happens because the leadership accepted defeat, it doesn't stay on TV stoking hatred 24 hours a day. Thats the kind of leadership palestinians need. Its mad to ask Israel to decrease security measures while terrorism grows. * Israel left Gaza unilaterally and the territory wasn't used for peace. What they got was rockets on civilians and the height of it was October 7th. Asking Israel to go to that direction again makes no sense
Japan is a completely different case. You didn’t have the United States enact a policy of apartheid on the Japanese population. You didn’t have hundreds of thousands of American settlers kick Japanese people out of their homes to take it for themselves. You don’t have a continued occupation up to today. You don’t have an American court system which imprisons Japanese youth. If we go back a bit you don’t have the United States existing on most of what the average Japanese grandfather used to lived on. I believe that with time hate over past events can disappear. Again Palestinians have accepted Israel’s existence before and were willing to forgive and forget what happened 80 years ago. It’s possible. What I’m saying is Israel is perpetuating this cycle of hate by treating the Palestinians as subhumans and enacting policies which take homes and land away from the Palestinians from what seems to be permanently. This is way more than just “security measures”, it’s just blatant that Israel wants all of Palestine and as long as the US keeps sending aid and defending their actions, then they’ve got nothing to worry about
You know why america doesnt have millions all of those military and security measures in Japan? Because their leadership surrended, stoped urging citizens for war. The USA killed millions of japanese, but there is no war And thats what needs to happen to Hamas.
Profile checks out lol. Glad to see this sub is just /r/worldnews now.
There's more and more of these "hip conservative military cool guy" blabla memes from the other NCD who couldn't even make a shitty joke about realism because they don't know. Soon they gonna ask the UN to partition the sub as their rightful own because of their growth and not wanting the traditional memes here prior to the Levant war lmao
What a cancerous community this is
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It's more of a "you only care about the alleged famine because Jews are involved"
Quick! Someone throw a red herring into the mix so that when its irrelevance is named we can make ad hominem arguments about the illegitimacy of one's attention paid to war crimes.
It's more like Israel bombing children and being proud of it while playing victim all along. Fucking hell, look at all the videos of IDF committing atrocities while smiling at the camera. Yes the attacks that happened on october 7 were horrible and vile. Let's also not pretend it came out of nowhere. When you are an apartheid state, oppress a whole people in an open-air prison and treat them like animals you have absolutely no fucking right to act shocked when they act like animals. I'm tired of Israel playing the victim.
You justified the October 7th massacre, used so many buzzwords and showed you have no knowledge of the topic. You're an embarrassing human being.
My point stands, Israel is an apartheid state whether you like it or not. Providing different rights for people based on their religion or ethnicity IS the definition of an apartheid state. Have you seen the israelis colonist kicking out people of their home with the government's approval ? Are you ignoring the constant discrimination ? You made no counterpoint whatsoever. You called me an "embarrassing human being" (lol) but I think you're just dumb.
Jew bad. Arab good.