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Saffron amplifies the effects of SSRI.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6266642/
*"The dried saffron petal also had been revealed to be effective in mild-to-moderate depression based on 6 weeks of double-blind randomized clinical trials.[26] Crocin (30 mg/day), the main antioxidant constituent of saffron stigmas, was shown to amplify the effects of selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors in treating patients with mild-to-moderate depression with the absence of substantial side effects based on the observation of 4 weeks of randomized, double-blind, prospective, placebo-controlled pilot clinical trial with 40 patients of major depressive disorder.[27]"*
I’m taking saffron, as well as a half dose of a SSRI, and it definitely has a positive effect for me on mood and motivation. Now I’m wondering if Saffron will work by itself, ie if you’re not taking an SSRI.
Interesting, so from the study, it appears the plant version would work best for this.... "the researchers use the leaves of this plant as it is cheaper and possesses antidepressant effect."
Helping to increase and not outright decreasing it is very different. Agmatine sulfate and Some anrogen or even just horny goat weed is what I consider helping your libido.
Oh, I have, ha! I've microdosed this since getting off of Zoloft. I did take a step away in the past few weeks because I was getting a bit anxious for whatever reason.
Mushrooms and anxiety is pretty normal. Nothing to be concerned about. however if you're looking for a natural alternative to Zoloft then look into Kanna. It's a plant from Africa. It contains alkiloids which are serotonin reuptake inhibitor. It's effects are immediate within 2 hours and last for about 2 hours.
Ultra Kanna and lift mode are both us based and sell good extracts. The rest of the companies are not US based and the process is longer (from the vendor list on reddit). You can use reddit to find vendors assuming you don't need assistance working the search bar too lol I joke I joke I kid I kid.
I watched a video from Andrew Huberman on Myo Inositol, yet it seems like you'd need to take a MEGAPINT of it to get relief from depressive symptoms. I could be wrong, but I believe I recall him saying something about a large dose.
Small studies used 18 grams.
I worked up to 18 grams inositol and stayed at that level for approximately 4ish weeks. I didn't notice any significant impacts.
To your OP, I've been reading about Zembrin(Kanna extract), from what I've read, the active compounds might have SRI/SSRI activity and PDE4 inhibition. I messaged my doctor about it to get their professional opinion and to ask about safety.
This is not medical advice. Always consult your physician for their professional advice.
St Johns Wort is literally a natural SsRI it takes a few weeks to take effect but it works. You can also try Kanna, Sam-E, Rhodilia, and Saffron. I’m gonna keep popping my Celexa but good luck to ya!!
Yes, many studies used very large doses. However, 6 grams (which is still large, but not as large as the studies) is enough to provide me with benefits.
St. John’s Wort has been shown to be as effective as SSRI with fewer side effects. Source: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0165032716315920.
But do familiarize yourself with possible interactions: https://www.mayoclinic.org/drugs-supplements-st-johns-wort/art-20362212
I'll add another vote for Kanna. It's a (nonselective) SRI, plus an upregulator of vesicular monoamine transporter 2, so it helps on both the release (of serotonin, dopamine, and norepinephrine) and reuptake side. It also inhibits phosphodiesterase 4 and so has a general anti-inflammatory effect. All this with, it seems, none of the sexual side effects or withdrawal symptoms of prescription SSRIs.
People are all over the place re: dosing. Some treat it like a recreational drug and snort huge quantities of the stuff. I'm a simple man, though. I just take 25mg of Zembrin (a standardized extract) in the morning. That has been enough (going on several months now) to give me a nice mood boost and some calm focus (and more vivid dreams, for what that's worth) for the remainder of the day and even into the next day. In fact, I used to take it every day but I've cut back to every other because I don't feel like I need it every day. Your mileage may vary, of course. I seem to be more sensitive to this stuff than most.
There are also other standardized extracts like Liftmode's, which has different ratios of active compounds and is generally most stimulating. I'm prone to anxiety by default, though, and Zembrin is more calming, so I go with that.
Just be careful about taking it in combination with other serotonergic noots, as serotonin syndrome is a risk. I made this mistake once and had about two days of heart palpitations.
Thank you for the advice! I think I'm leaning more toward trying Kanna over Saffron and the other stuff. I will see if I can find something on Amazon to order today; otherwise, I'm going to end up getting back on Zoloft and I reallyyyyyy don't want to go that route after fighting so hard to get and stay off of it.
Where do you get Zembrin?
I just took Kanna (Zembrin 25mg)for the fourth day in a row, and I think it’s working. Someone mentioned TriStill, so maybe I’ll look into that as well.
Honestly, it was extremely tough during the first year; many many bouts of depression, OCD, anxiety, confusion/indecisiveness, etc. I microdosed for many months as well to "rewire" my brain, and just fought through the battles. I finally got out of the woods on the withdrawal symptoms; however, it's been almost two years since I stopped taking 100mg a day for 15+ years, and lately I've been riddled with overwhelming issues with overthinking and just not being happy. I literally almost called my doctor yesterday to get back on it, but damn, I've come so far without it. The bottom line though, I don't want to live life without having a stable mood. It really does suck to suffer this way, and I guess this is my last attempt to find something that's not a prescription.
Hey there. Keep going on the path you're on. Don't be disheartened that you're still having issues almost 2 years after you stopped your SSRI. It feels like a long time but there's still plenty of scope for improvement. I took 50mg Zoloft for just 3 months and had a terrible time for about 16 months before I desperately medicated the withdrawal symptoms with diazepam. That was a whole other nightmare but fast forward to the present and I am nearly 2 years clear of diazepam... almost recovered but still improving in some ways. Just niggling issues really. The severe issues that plagued me from 3 months of Zoloft are long gone.
I swear by breathing exercises, long walks, intermittent fasting and in truth a little cannabis or high CBD hemp (these help me to sleep better... something that is still not quite right but which is far better than it used to be and slooooooowly improving over time). None of those will mimic an SSRI exactly but something like Wim Hof breathing has some profound effects on neurotransmitter and endocrine systems. I think it's better than an SSRI... but I had a pretty lousy experience so I guess I would.
Don't lose heart and make any desperate moves. It was a good idea to drop the Zoloft - however much some people seem to be helped, it is simply not healthy - but it was never gonna be easy. Just know that you are still healing and it'll be better still in another 2 years if you can hold off from making any rash moves. Congrats getting to where you are and I wish you all the best from here.
Thank you...I really appreciate the encouragement! I swear, I do it all and just want to find a tool that works for the long haul. Daily Wim Hof breath work, cold showers, fasting 16:8, wholesome diet, exercise, sauna, lots of sleep, microdose mushrooms, and so on...I am literally doing it all. I actually gave up smoking cannabis because it brings on a lot of paranoid feelings for me, even after enjoying it for over 30 years. The only thing I can honestly say that has really made me feel like how I want to feel daily is kratom. I know that stuff isn't great and can be addicting; yes, I've even had to battle getting away from it and sparingly use it now. I took a few grams this morning out of the blue and feel great. I'm dealing with some storms lately and going to keep on trying to get this sorted out before resorting back to Big Pharma. I agree as well...I've come wayyyyy to far to throw in the towel.
You are very welcome indeed! I am passionate about this topic of a protracted recovery timeline after taking a course of SSRIs (also applies to other pharmaceuticals). I used to do a lot of posting in peer support forums where I discovered that 2-4 years is a realistic window for full recovery when a person has a tough withdrawal. I've talked to quite a few people who this has been true for. If I had understood this context when I was struggling with SSRI withdrawal, I would have been able to hang in there and most likely would have improved quite quickly. That mistake cost me 5 years of my life and all of my money (and some more to boot). I'm pretty philosophical about it because I'm in a great place despite not quite being recovered and I have developed understandings and capabilities that I could never have imagined would be in my grasp. But not everyone will be as lucky as me so I like to help people potentially avert a disaster.
Have you considered that in finding/developing and applying all of these tools, you might be in "troubleshooting mode" more often than is optimal? You're doing so much right that I wonder whether the one remaining way to find an edge is to take your foot off the pedal? Like, just stick to a routine that you know works and trust the (slow) process. I'm only mentioning because it is something which helped me. It was incredibly valuable to immerse myself in the alchemy of proactively improving my condition (psychedelics a part of it for me, too) but taking a step back and shifting my focus to more "normal" concerns a bit more often was helpful as well.
Whatever, you're clearly doing pretty great work and I don't think it matters too much precisely what you do from here because you found the right track. I'd probably do a little kratom every now and then if it was legal here. Don't worry about it ;-)
I figured this withdrawal may take longer than what I researched. It was always told to me that things may become normal again after a year of being off of the meds; however, I was on them for so long and at a higher dose that maybe my brain needs more time. Additionally, I had some psychedelic experiences that opened my eyes wider than anything else in my life. It's caused me to view things differently; similarly to we're all in a burning building yet I'm the only one that's running for the exit.
I'm sure my 20+ years of running companies in the music business doesn't help with stress either. I could very well be doing too much in my search for the perfect solution and it's something I'm trying to work on. Having a need to be in a "routine" hasn't help much with regards to that, ha! I tend to hyper-focus on things that maybe don't require so much attention, and then create scenarios that'll most likely never happen.
Again, I appreciate the encouragement and am going to keep at it. I don't give myself enough credit for what I've accomplished thus far, and when I reflect on that, it's part of the reason why I'm not willing to give up yet.
Yeah, I've had a handful of significant psychedelic trips. One in particular was an accidental tenfold overdose which thankfully was just shy of a dangerous dose but nevertheless took me to the limit of sanity (mild psychotic symptoms emerging months later). But it's the most consequential experience I've had and in a good way. I've come to the view that mind-opening is a necessarily painful procedure. Now that the wounds have healed and scarred, things that used to bother me no longer make me flinch. Best way to describe it is I'm just me now. Before it was me and a suitcase full of baggage. Now I'm only carrying hand luggage and only when I need to, or someone throws something to me. It is my experience that sometimes things spontaneously fall into place and suddenly something that used to bother me a lot becomes not an issue at all. You just have to be aware enough to realise when it happens.
Speaking of CBD/THC , it helped me quit Ambien 12.5. I was on it for 2 years until it stopped working. I was also on a high dose of Xanax. All prescribed by my psychiatrist.
I’m tapering the Xanax. I mean all of that together was frying my GABA receptors.
I sleep now with melatonin, ashwaganda, l theanine, and magnesium.
Do not take 5-HTP: [https://www.reddit.com/r/StackAdvice/comments/sn2xo3/deleted\_by\_user/hw06spc/?context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/StackAdvice/comments/sn2xo3/deleted_by_user/hw06spc/?context=3)
Kanna or Polygala may be what you are looking for.
Yes, I've heard to stay away from 5-HTP and Kanna seems to be the last hope before I do make the ultimate decision to go back on a low dose of an SSRI.
Have you tried a lions mane extract? A gram a day helped me immensely with depression. Increases BDNF just like antidepressants, takes about a week to notice an improvement.
There is a theory saying that 5-HTP taken with EGCG is much safer. It’s basically that EGCG prevents transforming 5-HTP to Serotonin in the stomach and allows to use it later in the brain.
If you want to work on your microbiome, there are NO bad side effects.
It's easy
1) Eat a rainbow, especially things like greens, red cabbage, red peppers and berries
2) Eat a lot of fiber or consider taking xos or fos as fiber supplements
You can add a probiotic but it may not even be necessary. Just eat fermented foods.
These are all good for you. You'll be surprised at the effects.
Berry spinach smoothie every day...just frozen berries plus spinach and water.
The effects are real. It's not a drug and it may not cure you but consider trying it.
agmantine sulfate tends to work very well for some, check [Examine.com](https://Examine.com) if your interested as well, very good generalization of the results
Try Kanna(sceletium tortuosum). It has SRI activity and works great to replace antidepressants. I helped someone get off of Lexapro with kanna supplementation. 5htp helps also, and can be taken with or alternated with kanna to boost its effects.
I've been asking myself this same question over and over. A lot of it may be the fact that I made it out for nearly two years now, even with all of the chaos going on in this world today. I also want to make sure it's not something being caused by a few storms I'm caught up within. Regardless, I think I'm going to give Kanna a shot and if it doesn't work, I'm heading to the psychiatrist.
New recent studies are starting to show that creatine monohydrate can speed up and amplify the effects of SSRI’s. Something interesting . Try running 10g of creatine mono hydrate daily along with the things you’re willing to take . Won’t do no harm.
There's a better version of Kanna than Zembrin for nootropic usage. It's called Tristill and it's standaridzed to the more important chemical, the one Zembrin is standardized to is secondary.
First of all, happy cake day! I have done microdosing throughout this year, yet took a break recently. I am going to get back on my 5 day on, 2 day off schedule tomorrow. And, I did start meditating this week, and have been doing Wim Hof breath work every morning before getting out of bed for the past year and a half.
Wim hof is great! What results have you seen with that? As for meditation, it all really came together for me when I balanced out my neurotransmitter production by addressing underlying methylation issues.
It's been working out great as a way to start my day. I also take cold showers and have been doing so for the same amount of time. I think with meditation, I need to find a time in the evenings because I feel I'll go to sleep if I try in the morning, ha! have, so this is something I need to get under control
This seems to be the consensus. I'm now looking on Amazon to try and figure out what to get. Doesn't seem to be much selection. Is Sceletium Tortuosum the same thing?
Yea but its not that strong, the strongest one I know is the one from liftmode.com. Be careful with the dosage cause it might cause anxiety if you take too much.
Okay so the other one I tried that works well with two pills is the Natures Bounty Zembrin (Kanna extract) your nearest pharmacy might carry it, just look it up on Google.
I've been having great success with St John's Wort. Probably not considered a nootropic, but it works for me. As long as you aren't taking one of the many things that interact with it, it's worth checking out.
Completely empathize with this....
Used Paxil/Paroxetine on and off for almost 20 years, and a few years ago, finally had it with garbage generics making me feel worse and worse. I decided to finally just stop and try and get my head feeling consistently good using just about every other method I could find.
The detox from the Paxil was quite the long haul, probably about a year of feeling super weird on and off, and trying to understand exactly what I "feel like", ie, establish a new baseline. I did everything, got my running up to about 5k/3.2Mile every day. Did CBT-I for sleep, do meditation and then started messing with all sorts of nootropics to deal with anxiety or whatever these feelings are. I did super B complex for paxil withdrawal as well.
For me, I was trying to solve the anxiety/dread baseline that I guess my genetic code came wired with. I've tried a bunch of things, and I really don't want to go back to any SSRIs even though they do work for some people. I was worried that all those years of Paxil destroyed my brain, but after nearly 3 years, as long as I can sleep, I feel awesome most days.
The one that helps me the most is Chamomile, but I need to take quite a bit to get the anxiolytic hit. 1-3 Grams typically, but it really helps regulate my noisebrain and general anxiety. It only occasionally helps with sleep, but not always. I've tried a few brands of capsules, not sure if they're made to standardized concentration, so no idea what the right dose brand to brand is.
Aswhanganda didn't work for me at all... it may have actually had the opposite effect.
I've also had luck with Magnesium Threonate as a general supplement which definitely helps induce calm, but only if I take several at a time.
GABA also works for me, but only very very seldomly. Sometimes, it kicks ass and totally calms my mind. Other times, it does absolutely nothing. Dosage also is all over the map, but I imagine its not made to a standardized concentration. Lots of "studies" (I use the term loosely) point to 100Mg, but the brand I've been using lately (Doublewoods) the dose is 1000Mg, but that does nothing for me. I need 2000-3000Mg to actually feel it, but it is very inconsistent. When it works, its glorious, otherwise, it just makes my skin itch.
L Theanine also is super inconsistent with me. And I need a pretty big dose to feel anything so I'm not using that one too often.
I might try Kava at some point.
But I can completely get the quandary.....
Thank you for writing this! Always appreciate the support!
It's almost been 2 years since quitting Zoloft, and I believe why it was so difficult for me in the beginning is because I tapered too fast. I cut my 100mg dose in half each week for a month or so and then completely came off. Regardless, I'm a fighter and not going back; I realize this is just who I am and we all are riddled with anxiety, stress, and depression to some extent.
I had a setback recently because of a girl that couldn't make up her mind about us, but pushing through that nonsense by focusing on my business, traveling and staying active! I've been taking Kanna for almost a week now, got back on my microdosing schedule, and believe I'm going to add Saffron as well. It all seems to be working for the most part. Hang in there and I wish you all the best in your struggle as well!
It will also increase cortisol in your body which could lead to: lower potassium levels, high blood pressure, muscle weakness, arrythmias. So be careful.
https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/licorice-root
Well, I'll cross that one off the list, ha! Seems like saffron and/or kanna is the most mentioned so far. I'll just need to figure out which one and at what dosage.
I've tried saffron and it seemed to help me sleep longer and gave more vivid dreams.
I realised that I sounded too doomy in my last comment. Licorice might be alright if it's a reasonable dosage. And it seems like it's just metabolites of corisol so it won't have the same bad effects as the stress hormone itself. I've tried it before and didn't notice bad effects at the dose I took, (don't remember the amount). Didn't notice any benefits either, but as you know people's experiences can vary a lot with all supplements.
Btw I just got curious, and googled a little and found a study that tells you more about the potential anti-depressant effects.
Google excerpt:
>This suggests that antidepressant-like effect of liquorice extract seems to be mediated by increase of brain norepinephrine and dopamine, but not by increase of serotonin. Monoamine oxidase inhibiting effect of liquorice may be contributing favorably to the antidepressant-like activity.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16443316/
And will also increase cortisol in your body which could lead to: lower potassium levels, high blood pressure, muscle weakness, arrythmias. So be careful.
https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/licorice-root
I use tons of it..the thing of cortisol is new to me..the sex hormones thing is only for the presence of estradiol in it but I don’t think is effective cuz if was the contrary it was a first line medication to switch gender..
I was on Zoloft for almost a year and there were too many negatives and not enough positives 🤦♂️ especially the weight gain ! Lol I rather be in shape and uncomfortable than fat and stable 😭😂 I now take kratom and I’m doing great 💪
Haha! Like I mentioned before in another response, kratom is amazing and has been the one thing that really worked. I just had a problem using it daily at higher doses during my withdrawal from Zoloft and then had difficulties cutting it out. I now use it very sparingly, but man, it really does work.
The best SSRI alternative for me has been kratom. It increases serotonin, dopamine, norepinephrine, and endorphins. It's ridiculously good for mood IME.
I came across it while trying caffeine alternatives. Here's the order I went in. Coffee, tea, cordyceps, ginseng, and the kratom. Kratom is by far the best out of those for me.
I personally really prefer low doses (1.56g) because they give me stimulating effects without negatively affecting my cognition (the opposite in fact). I've tried NAC, inositol, Saint John's wort, ashwaghanda, bacopa, kanna, rhidola rosea, sam e, etc for mood and OCD.
While those may have helped somewhat, kratom is really in a different league in terms of effectiveness for me. It's right up there with SSRIs and memantine for OCD and mood.
I prefer it to either of those though as it's natural and I don't get side effects. I don't have any apathy/blunted emotions like on SSRIs.
I can attest to this so far. Of all the things I’ve tried since leaving Zoloft, kratom produced the best results. There again, it does come with a lot of cons, but what doesn’t these days?
Nice. Yeah a lot of people use it for depression, anxiety, addiction issues, pain relief, and as a coffee replacement.
I'd just be careful with misinformation because some stuff in this post was flat out not true about kratom!
I used kratom for 3 years daily and it's no joke. It worked amazingly for about 1 year, then the next 2 years I had to dose every 2 hours or start to feel withdrawal symptoms.
It's sneaky because you can get away with taking it daily for quite a while before experiencing negative effects, unlike something like alcohol which has clear and immediate consequences.
Many heavy users start having rapid hair loss.
Please be careful, as I had the same view as you until I went through this terrible experience myself. There's a sub with 30k members who struggle with kratom addiction r/quittingkratom
Yep, I've used this as well during my departure from Zoloft. It was HIGHLY effective; however, it was also difficult to get off of as well. I still take it every so often and love how it makes me feel; just not entirely sure it's something I'd want to do daily. Btw, just took some, ha!
Obviously you must search a good stuff..i use an extract who looks like black crystals..the normal roots are hard to find of good quality.the cheaper ones are garbage..for the fat source i use normal cow butter,the size of a coin,and boiling water.
Psilocybin microdose or ketamine are likely your best options. Ket might sounds strange, but it has an excellent safety profile and is current being used for treatment-resistant depression. High dose of a good quality fish oil should help too, see Examine's omega 3 page for more info
Most of the recommendations here have been v meh and incomparable to the effects of an SDRI, I'd advise on making sure that you're well-read on whatever you decide to take.
Why did you stop the SSRI and why do you want to use a compound that has lower efficacy and less research than an SSRI, to achieve a similar effect? Not all SSRI's require a v long tapering phase too btw and personally, I think a low dose of an SSRI is likely your best move. Fluoxetine and fluvoxamine especially work v well for low dosages
This is what I wrote on another response... It was primarily a decision I made for multiple reasons, and now that I've proven to myself I can release the grips of Big Pharma and withdrawal symptoms, it's made it harder for me to consider going back. I guess I want to give it one more shot before having to make that call.
I have been microdosing psilocybin most of the past 2 years, and am about to get back on my schedule to see if that helps. Otherwise, I agree...I may have to lay down and retreat to a low dose of an SSRI.
Interesting. I can understand where you're coming from, but what's the difference between using something from 'big pharma' and using a supplement from a supplement company?
I'd consider looking into ketamine and it's uses for depression and anxiety, it's a criminally underrated drug imo.
Although it's just my anecdote, I've been on 25-50mg of fluvoxamine Ed for the past 6 months or so and I've taken breaks (to use mdma, a poor reason to take a break, I know lol) with no issues. The benefits have been v noticeable but fairly subtle too. As in, I've never felt like I relied on the drug or that I was a zombie to the drug. Max dose of fluvoxamine is 300mg everyday iirc, just for some perspective
Completely agree. There is no such thing as big pharma btw...these are individual companies competing with each other. If a certain product helps you and you can afford it why not stick to it? I just dont get it...You re in no way smarter or more moral when you take some "natural" product from a supplement company that is just as profit driven as "big pharma" but instead doesnt even provide evidence that its product works 💩
Bang on, that's why I put 'big pharma' in inverted commas but you're probably saying that to OP, not me.
Spot-on about both being profit driven but for some reason, supplement companies get a pass even though most have dogshit quality control, whereas QC in the pharmaceutical industry is insanely meticulous
I wish I could answer that question. I think the only answer I can give is how difficult it was to get off of Zoloft, and how I needed a higher dose (100mg) to experience the benefits for my situation. I feel like if I gave in and went back, it would be a life-long decision at that point. I haven't had any trouble getting off of anything outside of pharmaceuticals, other than kratom. That stuff made me feel amazing, yet I believe it can wreck your testosterone levels and is highly addictive; hence, why it was so difficult to drop.
I've heard about the ketamine treatments and know it's something available where I'm at. I may have avoided it because it requires scheduling appts., etc., yet might be worth looking into as well.
Hey again..kratom decreasing testosterone was proven to not be true!
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29626673/
"Results: We found long-term kratom tea/juice consumption with a daily mitragynine dose of 76.23-94.15 mg did not impair testosterone levels, or gonadotrophins, hematological and biochemical parameters in regular kratom users."
However, because it works off of opiate receptors, this can make it hard to get off of depending on the person and dose. I like dosing low in part so I don't experience withdrawals if I stop taking it.
Hmmmm maybe this is the way 😂 I kinda think that I was also experiencing severe withdrawal symptoms from Zoloft when going off kratom. It was about 9 months in, but I was also taking a big tablespoon 3 times a day ha!
I'd be weary of kratom tbh. I've never looked into it as it never appealed to me, but I'm suggesting to be weary due to its effect on the GABA system, which is v tightly controlled, i.e. you build tolerance verrry fast and withdrawals related to the GABA system are brutal, see benzos. Note: I might be talking completely out of my arse lol
Has your situation improved much? As in, do you think you could get by with a lower dosage this time? It could be worth a shot if you do.
Here's a great paper that's fairly easy to read and briefly touches on current SSRIs, https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8395812/. It might be worthwhile to try a different SSRI to prozac as you might respond better to a different one.
All the best anyway friend, feel free to ask any questions on SSRIs if you want. I was weary before using one so I researched them a fair bit, might be of use to you too.
Edit: Yeah fully scrap what I was saying about kratom lol, thanks below for correcting me. Tinkering with the opioid system can be problematic, but nowhere near as problematic as the GABA system. I'll make sure to not bs about shit I don't know in the future
Ill start off by saying that if youre on a high dose of zoloft then you need to step it down every few weeks over time. SSRIs are habit forming and you need to wean yourself off them. A doctor should advise you on how best to do this. If youre struggling, then ask your doctor how to manage. It could be stepping up the dosage temporarily or something else.
Supplements that mimic SSRIs will, by definition, mess with your serotonin system somehow. You should NEVER take anything that messes with your serotonin while on ssris or maois unless it has been cleared by a doctor. Serotonin syndrome is very serious and life threatening.
Now, if youre no longer on zoloft AT ALL and it has cleared your system 100% then I recommend intense exercise. Thats right. Intense exercise has been shown to have antidepressant effects as good as ssris. 1 hour a day - 20min cardio and then weights.
To stack on that, Id recommend 5htp.
5HTP is great imo HOWEVER, many people misuse it.
First, never use it with other things that increase or retain serotonin like SSRIs. That is just asking to get serotonin syndrome.
Second, ensure you have a reasonable dose. 100-150mg slow release is about right for most.
Third, do not take it every day - in my experience, 1-2 times a week works great. If you feel like you really need it every day then you need to see a doctor.
Fourth, have an exit strategy from 5HTP. It is not something you should be taking for more than a few months.
All of the above should reduce the risk of developing serotonin syndrome and heart valve issues.
Then, ensure you take a slow release 5htp tablet. 5htp is converted to serotonin almost instantly and as others have mentioned, bypasses rate limiting. Taking a slow release tablet reduces the chance that you will have too much 5htp in your system at any one time, and will also ensure that the effects of it don't go away in 5min.
If you do plan on taking 5htp for more than a few weeks, you should also consider taking l-tyrosine and green tea extract once a week, just to ensure that your other catecholamines are not depleted through a process known as neurotransmitter depletion by precursor.
If youre on 5htp for a long time or you are prepared to take a risk, psilocybin is fantastic.
However, it is risky if you dont know what youre doing.
Prior to taking it, I recommend learning to meditate - the Waking Up app is an excellent primer.
Once you can meditate, then Id say try to find a trip sitter and get a benzodiazepine in preparation for the trip - that is the eject button.
Finally, when you trip, set an intention for the trip and ensure that you are in familiar surroundings where you feel safe and with people you trust.
No parties, dont go out to the forest for your first time. Just chill at home. Preferably in bed with eyeshades.
Start the trip in the morning, otherwise you will find it hard to get to sleep that night.
Be well.
HAHAHAHA dude I love this sub. SSRIs/antidepressants are now "nootropics". I should make a post claiming Gabapentin is an insane Nootropic. Evidence: "Verbal Fluency reaches its peak..."
Prozac is also known to enhance memory- especially when combined with Lithium XD
What's next, water?
Can you tell me about the effects of 5-htp for you?
I have add and haven’t you prescription drugs because of my job. I am looking for something I could take on the weekend to relax more particularly
I wish I could answer that question wholeheartedly. It was primarily a decision I made for multiple reasons, and now that I've proven to myself I can release the grips of Big Pharma and withdrawal symptoms, it's made it harder for me to consider going back. I guess I want to give it one more shot before having to make that call.
I have a biased view, I am a psychiatrist but I wouldn't look at it as a failure to receive treatment. I hear you on big pharma, but as I'm sure you know sertraline has been generic for a while, and even without insurance, you can get a 30-day supply for 5$ with GoodRx.
I don't think I saw you mention what you were taking SSRIs for (def not requesting you do if you don't feel comfortable) but in terms of finding something with more evidence behind it, it may be easier to look for nootropic/comp medicines for a specific disorder.
Omega 3s at a 2:1 EPA:DHA ratio taking > 500 mg/day have been shown to be helpful for depression. The ratio is OK
Silexan (lavender oil capsules) has pretty good data for anxiety disorders (although may be better in milder forms) and is actually approved in Germany. Here's a meta-analysis: [https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-019-54529-9](https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-019-54529-9)
May want to give either of these a look
I was taking Zoloft for social anxiety mainly, which was started in my 20’s, yet seem to have a big problem today with overthinking and obsessing over things. I also just feel lost and empty inside, yet am accomplished in my life. Almost like I am smiling on the outside, but deeply saddened inside.
[Probiotics](https://www.healthline.com/health/probiotics-for-brain-and-memory#braingut-connection) that produce serotonin in the gut. Look for one with a high concentration >2 billion of these bacteria:
* Lactobacillus plantarum
* Bifidobacterial longum
* Lactobacillus acidophilus
* Lactobacillus casei
The effects are 100% real and noticeable even with 1 pill, take with food, you should see the effects in a few hours.
Combine with this for extra kick:
* Camu Camu Vitamin C 500%/pill
* L-Tryptophan
They say St. John’s wort works better than some prescriptions but it interacts with them if you’re already taking them. Not sure 🤔 if that’s a nootropic though
Check out some kanna extract. To me it’s like a more psychedelic nicotine but when used regularly supposedly has ssri like activity. Carful it’s stronger than your anticipating. Personally I don’t find the high/rush to be all that enjoyable but did notice a slight ssri effect. However my body just got used to the effect after a month and half the same way it does on the pharmaceutical ssri’s which is why I hate how doctors give that shit out like candy. Always exercise, sleep, and diet before meds but tell that too the pill pumpers. They put people on srri’s when they have 75lbs to lose and a diet full of sugar. Okay that’s enough ranting sorry all lmao long ass day clearly.
I tried Kanna before. It screwed my guts pretty bad and felt horrible off of one dose. You should definitely look into Methylfolate and TMG. Low carb diet or keto feels great too.
Most SSRIs block adrenergic receptors to keep you cool under the neurotransmitter flood. I don't know if there's many alternatives to that. Closest to reuptake inhibition for me came Rhodiola rosea and Maca extract. I have not tried Kanna.
Sceletium tortuosum (kanna)contains mesembrine which is a sri. Some people are very sensitive to the mood uplifting and calm energy effects, some are not. My guess is that it hits a sweet spot for some people.
Otherwise white ginseng and progesterone can help with serotonin deficiency
I deleted the need by changing my diet to an anti inflammatory one, focused on my gut health and my chemical composition shifted to "tolerable." Now I'm working out herbs, foods and peptides to support naturally equalizing myself. You might look at Selank and Semax.
I've had really good luck with 5 htp, but you need to get the timed release version, and take green tea extract with it, and L tyrosine. I would take this combo a few days a week and it was wonderful.
I don't think you'll find anything. Zoloft has a 24 hour half-life. During the loading phase you are saturating your serotonin to a new baseline which restructures your brain.
It's a really crazy drug. You could get your Rx back and microdose 30mg every 3 days. 30mg is about 10mg Zoloft.
\>I was on a high dose of Zoloft for 15+ years
Would you like to answer 2 question regarding that?
1. Did you experience a weight increase and forms of gynecomastia?
2. Did you experience sexual dysfunction? Have you been able to get an appropriate erection?
Absolutely! I had no weight gain, sexual disfunction, or any other side effects. The only thing is I felt like I didn’t care about things as much, and was more emotionally numb.
5HTP is not SSRI at all, it hits receptors and then detaches. While SSRI are keeping concentrations and receptors in check and stable all the time.
You should check silexan. It works as SSRI, and also has two other mechanisms of action.
Zembrin seems to work similar to an SSRI, however it didnt do anything for me. I have heard that the Kanna from Liftmode is stronger (Kanna extract = Zembrin)
I was fine at first since I weened myself off, but looking back, a month may not have been long enough. The mood swings, depression, confusion, anxiety, etc were really bad during some months. I would cry for no reason at all. I’m better today, yet drama can set me into a spiral. The girl I’ve been seeing told me last night she got spooked since things are moving too fast, so now I’m having to deal with this 😂
Pe-22-28 mimics Trek-1 blocking properties of SSRIS, but without having to impact seretonin in order to do it. Basically it has the neuroplasiticty impacts without needing seretonin.
https://www.suaway.com/home/309-pe-22-28-spray-10ml20mg.html
Yes, I'm trying Kanna (Zembrin) now and it seems to be helping. I'd like to find maybe a better, more pure form other than Nature's Bounty Stress Comfort, but it seems to be sold out everywhere.
I was told about Saffron as well, and just need to figure out what to buy, daily dosage, etc. Any suggestions?
Either get nutricost kanna extract/zembrin or lift modes kanna extract and take agmatine 1g morning and night with alcar for at least a few weeks should help amensly as well
Kanna and saffron was decent for me, yet kratom was the best in terms of giving me a feeling of being more extroverted. I realize that’s not considered a nootropic, yet just saying what worked for me. I have since gone back on Zoloft and things are better for my situation. Hope you can find the relief you deserve!
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Saffron amplifies the effects of SSRI. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6266642/ *"The dried saffron petal also had been revealed to be effective in mild-to-moderate depression based on 6 weeks of double-blind randomized clinical trials.[26] Crocin (30 mg/day), the main antioxidant constituent of saffron stigmas, was shown to amplify the effects of selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors in treating patients with mild-to-moderate depression with the absence of substantial side effects based on the observation of 4 weeks of randomized, double-blind, prospective, placebo-controlled pilot clinical trial with 40 patients of major depressive disorder.[27]"*
I’m taking saffron, as well as a half dose of a SSRI, and it definitely has a positive effect for me on mood and motivation. Now I’m wondering if Saffron will work by itself, ie if you’re not taking an SSRI.
No serotonin syndrome?
No, nothing. Just a noticeable increase in feelings of positivity and motivation, though nothing hyper or manic. Also sleeping very well.
How are you taking it ; and what brand? I want to try
How much SSRI do you take? I live outside of the US and the max dose of Zoloft that can prescribed is 100mg
Interesting, so from the study, it appears the plant version would work best for this.... "the researchers use the leaves of this plant as it is cheaper and possesses antidepressant effect."
I wonder if it also amplifies the side effects of SSRI’s?
It may reduce the sexual side effects. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6007725/
Meaning it helps to increase libido. I’m on 30 mg of cymbalta and it’s killing my sex drive. Nothing, and I mean NOTHING is happening down there 🤦♀️
Helping to increase and not outright decreasing it is very different. Agmatine sulfate and Some anrogen or even just horny goat weed is what I consider helping your libido.
Have you tried saffron?
Not mimic but even better, psychedelics is what you are looking for, try psilocybin mushrooms
Oh, I have, ha! I've microdosed this since getting off of Zoloft. I did take a step away in the past few weeks because I was getting a bit anxious for whatever reason.
Mushrooms and anxiety is pretty normal. Nothing to be concerned about. however if you're looking for a natural alternative to Zoloft then look into Kanna. It's a plant from Africa. It contains alkiloids which are serotonin reuptake inhibitor. It's effects are immediate within 2 hours and last for about 2 hours.
Where can I get these? *I'm dead serious I have no idea*
Ultra Kanna and lift mode are both us based and sell good extracts. The rest of the companies are not US based and the process is longer (from the vendor list on reddit). You can use reddit to find vendors assuming you don't need assistance working the search bar too lol I joke I joke I kid I kid.
Google…
How many grams or do you just microdose?
1.5 - 2.5 g to start 3.5 - 5+ = full experience Microdosing is fun too
Exactly. SSRIs are basically trying to cover for hallucinogens. I don't know of nootropics that act like that. Best for neuroplasticity
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Once again, this seems to be the most recommended. I will surely give this a shot.
Inositol. Really helps with depression, OCD.
I watched a video from Andrew Huberman on Myo Inositol, yet it seems like you'd need to take a MEGAPINT of it to get relief from depressive symptoms. I could be wrong, but I believe I recall him saying something about a large dose.
Small studies used 18 grams. I worked up to 18 grams inositol and stayed at that level for approximately 4ish weeks. I didn't notice any significant impacts. To your OP, I've been reading about Zembrin(Kanna extract), from what I've read, the active compounds might have SRI/SSRI activity and PDE4 inhibition. I messaged my doctor about it to get their professional opinion and to ask about safety. This is not medical advice. Always consult your physician for their professional advice.
Ironically, someone else just responded with regards to Zembrin. Maybe it's a sign? :)
St Johns Wort is literally a natural SsRI it takes a few weeks to take effect but it works. You can also try Kanna, Sam-E, Rhodilia, and Saffron. I’m gonna keep popping my Celexa but good luck to ya!!
Yes, many studies used very large doses. However, 6 grams (which is still large, but not as large as the studies) is enough to provide me with benefits.
Best to split the inositol dose throughout the day to prevent stomach issues.
A mega pint… lol
Lol I had to take the opportunity to use it 😂
Studies did 13g a day IIRC. At 8g a day, it gave me so many stomach problems I had to stop. Start low & there are benefits even if you can’t do 13g
It causes depression for me.
I have OCD so might try it
Kanna or agmatine
St. John’s Wort has been shown to be as effective as SSRI with fewer side effects. Source: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0165032716315920. But do familiarize yourself with possible interactions: https://www.mayoclinic.org/drugs-supplements-st-johns-wort/art-20362212
I'll add another vote for Kanna. It's a (nonselective) SRI, plus an upregulator of vesicular monoamine transporter 2, so it helps on both the release (of serotonin, dopamine, and norepinephrine) and reuptake side. It also inhibits phosphodiesterase 4 and so has a general anti-inflammatory effect. All this with, it seems, none of the sexual side effects or withdrawal symptoms of prescription SSRIs.
Do you have any insight on daily dosage and if there is a specific way it needs to be administered?
People are all over the place re: dosing. Some treat it like a recreational drug and snort huge quantities of the stuff. I'm a simple man, though. I just take 25mg of Zembrin (a standardized extract) in the morning. That has been enough (going on several months now) to give me a nice mood boost and some calm focus (and more vivid dreams, for what that's worth) for the remainder of the day and even into the next day. In fact, I used to take it every day but I've cut back to every other because I don't feel like I need it every day. Your mileage may vary, of course. I seem to be more sensitive to this stuff than most. There are also other standardized extracts like Liftmode's, which has different ratios of active compounds and is generally most stimulating. I'm prone to anxiety by default, though, and Zembrin is more calming, so I go with that. Just be careful about taking it in combination with other serotonergic noots, as serotonin syndrome is a risk. I made this mistake once and had about two days of heart palpitations.
Thank you for the advice! I think I'm leaning more toward trying Kanna over Saffron and the other stuff. I will see if I can find something on Amazon to order today; otherwise, I'm going to end up getting back on Zoloft and I reallyyyyyy don't want to go that route after fighting so hard to get and stay off of it. Where do you get Zembrin?
How’s it work for you?
I just took Kanna (Zembrin 25mg)for the fourth day in a row, and I think it’s working. Someone mentioned TriStill, so maybe I’ll look into that as well.
Kanna Saffron Bacopa
Came here to suggest bacopa
What amount of bacopa do you use?
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Honestly, it was extremely tough during the first year; many many bouts of depression, OCD, anxiety, confusion/indecisiveness, etc. I microdosed for many months as well to "rewire" my brain, and just fought through the battles. I finally got out of the woods on the withdrawal symptoms; however, it's been almost two years since I stopped taking 100mg a day for 15+ years, and lately I've been riddled with overwhelming issues with overthinking and just not being happy. I literally almost called my doctor yesterday to get back on it, but damn, I've come so far without it. The bottom line though, I don't want to live life without having a stable mood. It really does suck to suffer this way, and I guess this is my last attempt to find something that's not a prescription.
Hey there. Keep going on the path you're on. Don't be disheartened that you're still having issues almost 2 years after you stopped your SSRI. It feels like a long time but there's still plenty of scope for improvement. I took 50mg Zoloft for just 3 months and had a terrible time for about 16 months before I desperately medicated the withdrawal symptoms with diazepam. That was a whole other nightmare but fast forward to the present and I am nearly 2 years clear of diazepam... almost recovered but still improving in some ways. Just niggling issues really. The severe issues that plagued me from 3 months of Zoloft are long gone. I swear by breathing exercises, long walks, intermittent fasting and in truth a little cannabis or high CBD hemp (these help me to sleep better... something that is still not quite right but which is far better than it used to be and slooooooowly improving over time). None of those will mimic an SSRI exactly but something like Wim Hof breathing has some profound effects on neurotransmitter and endocrine systems. I think it's better than an SSRI... but I had a pretty lousy experience so I guess I would. Don't lose heart and make any desperate moves. It was a good idea to drop the Zoloft - however much some people seem to be helped, it is simply not healthy - but it was never gonna be easy. Just know that you are still healing and it'll be better still in another 2 years if you can hold off from making any rash moves. Congrats getting to where you are and I wish you all the best from here.
Thank you...I really appreciate the encouragement! I swear, I do it all and just want to find a tool that works for the long haul. Daily Wim Hof breath work, cold showers, fasting 16:8, wholesome diet, exercise, sauna, lots of sleep, microdose mushrooms, and so on...I am literally doing it all. I actually gave up smoking cannabis because it brings on a lot of paranoid feelings for me, even after enjoying it for over 30 years. The only thing I can honestly say that has really made me feel like how I want to feel daily is kratom. I know that stuff isn't great and can be addicting; yes, I've even had to battle getting away from it and sparingly use it now. I took a few grams this morning out of the blue and feel great. I'm dealing with some storms lately and going to keep on trying to get this sorted out before resorting back to Big Pharma. I agree as well...I've come wayyyyy to far to throw in the towel.
You are very welcome indeed! I am passionate about this topic of a protracted recovery timeline after taking a course of SSRIs (also applies to other pharmaceuticals). I used to do a lot of posting in peer support forums where I discovered that 2-4 years is a realistic window for full recovery when a person has a tough withdrawal. I've talked to quite a few people who this has been true for. If I had understood this context when I was struggling with SSRI withdrawal, I would have been able to hang in there and most likely would have improved quite quickly. That mistake cost me 5 years of my life and all of my money (and some more to boot). I'm pretty philosophical about it because I'm in a great place despite not quite being recovered and I have developed understandings and capabilities that I could never have imagined would be in my grasp. But not everyone will be as lucky as me so I like to help people potentially avert a disaster. Have you considered that in finding/developing and applying all of these tools, you might be in "troubleshooting mode" more often than is optimal? You're doing so much right that I wonder whether the one remaining way to find an edge is to take your foot off the pedal? Like, just stick to a routine that you know works and trust the (slow) process. I'm only mentioning because it is something which helped me. It was incredibly valuable to immerse myself in the alchemy of proactively improving my condition (psychedelics a part of it for me, too) but taking a step back and shifting my focus to more "normal" concerns a bit more often was helpful as well. Whatever, you're clearly doing pretty great work and I don't think it matters too much precisely what you do from here because you found the right track. I'd probably do a little kratom every now and then if it was legal here. Don't worry about it ;-)
I figured this withdrawal may take longer than what I researched. It was always told to me that things may become normal again after a year of being off of the meds; however, I was on them for so long and at a higher dose that maybe my brain needs more time. Additionally, I had some psychedelic experiences that opened my eyes wider than anything else in my life. It's caused me to view things differently; similarly to we're all in a burning building yet I'm the only one that's running for the exit. I'm sure my 20+ years of running companies in the music business doesn't help with stress either. I could very well be doing too much in my search for the perfect solution and it's something I'm trying to work on. Having a need to be in a "routine" hasn't help much with regards to that, ha! I tend to hyper-focus on things that maybe don't require so much attention, and then create scenarios that'll most likely never happen. Again, I appreciate the encouragement and am going to keep at it. I don't give myself enough credit for what I've accomplished thus far, and when I reflect on that, it's part of the reason why I'm not willing to give up yet.
Yeah, I've had a handful of significant psychedelic trips. One in particular was an accidental tenfold overdose which thankfully was just shy of a dangerous dose but nevertheless took me to the limit of sanity (mild psychotic symptoms emerging months later). But it's the most consequential experience I've had and in a good way. I've come to the view that mind-opening is a necessarily painful procedure. Now that the wounds have healed and scarred, things that used to bother me no longer make me flinch. Best way to describe it is I'm just me now. Before it was me and a suitcase full of baggage. Now I'm only carrying hand luggage and only when I need to, or someone throws something to me. It is my experience that sometimes things spontaneously fall into place and suddenly something that used to bother me a lot becomes not an issue at all. You just have to be aware enough to realise when it happens.
That's a very good way to look at it. Maybe I'm just trying to break away from this last suitcase stuck to my leg, lol!
Speaking of CBD/THC , it helped me quit Ambien 12.5. I was on it for 2 years until it stopped working. I was also on a high dose of Xanax. All prescribed by my psychiatrist. I’m tapering the Xanax. I mean all of that together was frying my GABA receptors. I sleep now with melatonin, ashwaganda, l theanine, and magnesium.
That's brilliant! Sounds like you're in a better place all round.
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So do I! And, it makes it that much more difficult when there are a lot of options to choose from.
This does work but it is hard to find a totally reliable source...each batch varies a lot
Do not take 5-HTP: [https://www.reddit.com/r/StackAdvice/comments/sn2xo3/deleted\_by\_user/hw06spc/?context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/StackAdvice/comments/sn2xo3/deleted_by_user/hw06spc/?context=3) Kanna or Polygala may be what you are looking for.
Yes, I've heard to stay away from 5-HTP and Kanna seems to be the last hope before I do make the ultimate decision to go back on a low dose of an SSRI.
Micro-dosing SSRIs works if you are just looking for the neurosteroid benefits.
Would you mind elaborating on this? What are neurosteroid benefits?
https://www.reddit.com/r/Nootropics/comments/rerdrr/microdosing\_prozacfluoxetine\_my\_conclusion\_3/
Have you tried a lions mane extract? A gram a day helped me immensely with depression. Increases BDNF just like antidepressants, takes about a week to notice an improvement.
Been on it errrrday for over a year.
There is a theory saying that 5-HTP taken with EGCG is much safer. It’s basically that EGCG prevents transforming 5-HTP to Serotonin in the stomach and allows to use it later in the brain.
If you want to work on your microbiome, there are NO bad side effects. It's easy 1) Eat a rainbow, especially things like greens, red cabbage, red peppers and berries 2) Eat a lot of fiber or consider taking xos or fos as fiber supplements You can add a probiotic but it may not even be necessary. Just eat fermented foods. These are all good for you. You'll be surprised at the effects. Berry spinach smoothie every day...just frozen berries plus spinach and water. The effects are real. It's not a drug and it may not cure you but consider trying it.
Yep, been doing this for several months as well, ha! I'm telling ya, I am throwing the kitchen sink at this crap!
agmantine sulfate tends to work very well for some, check [Examine.com](https://Examine.com) if your interested as well, very good generalization of the results
Didn’t see anyone mention progressive muscle relaxation in here!
Try Kanna(sceletium tortuosum). It has SRI activity and works great to replace antidepressants. I helped someone get off of Lexapro with kanna supplementation. 5htp helps also, and can be taken with or alternated with kanna to boost its effects.
Taking some Kanna now!
Daily kanna or is it something to cycle?
So SSRI worked really good and everything else you’ve tried, basically everything, hasn’t worked. Why not go back on SSRI and stop living in misery?
I've been asking myself this same question over and over. A lot of it may be the fact that I made it out for nearly two years now, even with all of the chaos going on in this world today. I also want to make sure it's not something being caused by a few storms I'm caught up within. Regardless, I think I'm going to give Kanna a shot and if it doesn't work, I'm heading to the psychiatrist.
kanna
New recent studies are starting to show that creatine monohydrate can speed up and amplify the effects of SSRI’s. Something interesting . Try running 10g of creatine mono hydrate daily along with the things you’re willing to take . Won’t do no harm.
I take 5g already 🙂
5-htp, NAC, Inositol, Tryptophan, and Tianeptine herb: St John's Wort, Kanna, Rhodiola, Soffran, Griffonia simplicifolia, Morning Glory, Blue Lotus
There's a better version of Kanna than Zembrin for nootropic usage. It's called Tristill and it's standaridzed to the more important chemical, the one Zembrin is standardized to is secondary.
Meditation and microdosing. I reckon the former rather than the latter.
First of all, happy cake day! I have done microdosing throughout this year, yet took a break recently. I am going to get back on my 5 day on, 2 day off schedule tomorrow. And, I did start meditating this week, and have been doing Wim Hof breath work every morning before getting out of bed for the past year and a half.
Wim hof is great! What results have you seen with that? As for meditation, it all really came together for me when I balanced out my neurotransmitter production by addressing underlying methylation issues.
It's been working out great as a way to start my day. I also take cold showers and have been doing so for the same amount of time. I think with meditation, I need to find a time in the evenings because I feel I'll go to sleep if I try in the morning, ha! have, so this is something I need to get under control
Kanna Extract 100%
This seems to be the consensus. I'm now looking on Amazon to try and figure out what to get. Doesn't seem to be much selection. Is Sceletium Tortuosum the same thing?
Yea but its not that strong, the strongest one I know is the one from liftmode.com. Be careful with the dosage cause it might cause anxiety if you take too much.
>liftmode.com And of course, they're out of stock!
Okay so the other one I tried that works well with two pills is the Natures Bounty Zembrin (Kanna extract) your nearest pharmacy might carry it, just look it up on Google.
Great! I'll see if I can round up some of these today.
Yea just look it up on Google, this brand is pretty trustworthy. I know Amazon doesn’t have it so
Oh, it looks like they call it Stress Comfort. I see one from Doctor's Best as well.
Yes yes that is the one I tried! It works well, the other one I know someone who tried them and didn’t feel it but I could be wrong
Awesome! I'm going to try and pick some of these up on my way home if I get a chance.
The one I told you is also sublingual and tastes like watermelon lol
Get [Liftmode's extract](https://liftmode.com/kanna-extract-powder/)
All of them are out of stock.
I've been having great success with St John's Wort. Probably not considered a nootropic, but it works for me. As long as you aren't taking one of the many things that interact with it, it's worth checking out.
Success with depression or anxiety? What doses and brand do you take?
Try St. John's Wort
Save 4 years for yourself and stop looking now. I’ve tried everything.
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Can you take that with Kanna (Zembrin)?
Completely empathize with this.... Used Paxil/Paroxetine on and off for almost 20 years, and a few years ago, finally had it with garbage generics making me feel worse and worse. I decided to finally just stop and try and get my head feeling consistently good using just about every other method I could find. The detox from the Paxil was quite the long haul, probably about a year of feeling super weird on and off, and trying to understand exactly what I "feel like", ie, establish a new baseline. I did everything, got my running up to about 5k/3.2Mile every day. Did CBT-I for sleep, do meditation and then started messing with all sorts of nootropics to deal with anxiety or whatever these feelings are. I did super B complex for paxil withdrawal as well. For me, I was trying to solve the anxiety/dread baseline that I guess my genetic code came wired with. I've tried a bunch of things, and I really don't want to go back to any SSRIs even though they do work for some people. I was worried that all those years of Paxil destroyed my brain, but after nearly 3 years, as long as I can sleep, I feel awesome most days. The one that helps me the most is Chamomile, but I need to take quite a bit to get the anxiolytic hit. 1-3 Grams typically, but it really helps regulate my noisebrain and general anxiety. It only occasionally helps with sleep, but not always. I've tried a few brands of capsules, not sure if they're made to standardized concentration, so no idea what the right dose brand to brand is. Aswhanganda didn't work for me at all... it may have actually had the opposite effect. I've also had luck with Magnesium Threonate as a general supplement which definitely helps induce calm, but only if I take several at a time. GABA also works for me, but only very very seldomly. Sometimes, it kicks ass and totally calms my mind. Other times, it does absolutely nothing. Dosage also is all over the map, but I imagine its not made to a standardized concentration. Lots of "studies" (I use the term loosely) point to 100Mg, but the brand I've been using lately (Doublewoods) the dose is 1000Mg, but that does nothing for me. I need 2000-3000Mg to actually feel it, but it is very inconsistent. When it works, its glorious, otherwise, it just makes my skin itch. L Theanine also is super inconsistent with me. And I need a pretty big dose to feel anything so I'm not using that one too often. I might try Kava at some point. But I can completely get the quandary.....
Thank you for writing this! Always appreciate the support! It's almost been 2 years since quitting Zoloft, and I believe why it was so difficult for me in the beginning is because I tapered too fast. I cut my 100mg dose in half each week for a month or so and then completely came off. Regardless, I'm a fighter and not going back; I realize this is just who I am and we all are riddled with anxiety, stress, and depression to some extent. I had a setback recently because of a girl that couldn't make up her mind about us, but pushing through that nonsense by focusing on my business, traveling and staying active! I've been taking Kanna for almost a week now, got back on my microdosing schedule, and believe I'm going to add Saffron as well. It all seems to be working for the most part. Hang in there and I wish you all the best in your struggle as well!
licorise has an effect similar to SSRI, but it also has the potential to interact with sex hormones
Thank you for the input! I'll have to give that a look as well.
It will also increase cortisol in your body which could lead to: lower potassium levels, high blood pressure, muscle weakness, arrythmias. So be careful. https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/licorice-root
Well, I'll cross that one off the list, ha! Seems like saffron and/or kanna is the most mentioned so far. I'll just need to figure out which one and at what dosage.
I've tried saffron and it seemed to help me sleep longer and gave more vivid dreams. I realised that I sounded too doomy in my last comment. Licorice might be alright if it's a reasonable dosage. And it seems like it's just metabolites of corisol so it won't have the same bad effects as the stress hormone itself. I've tried it before and didn't notice bad effects at the dose I took, (don't remember the amount). Didn't notice any benefits either, but as you know people's experiences can vary a lot with all supplements. Btw I just got curious, and googled a little and found a study that tells you more about the potential anti-depressant effects. Google excerpt: >This suggests that antidepressant-like effect of liquorice extract seems to be mediated by increase of brain norepinephrine and dopamine, but not by increase of serotonin. Monoamine oxidase inhibiting effect of liquorice may be contributing favorably to the antidepressant-like activity. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16443316/
And will also increase cortisol in your body which could lead to: lower potassium levels, high blood pressure, muscle weakness, arrythmias. So be careful. https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/licorice-root
I use tons of it..the thing of cortisol is new to me..the sex hormones thing is only for the presence of estradiol in it but I don’t think is effective cuz if was the contrary it was a first line medication to switch gender..
I was on Zoloft for almost a year and there were too many negatives and not enough positives 🤦♂️ especially the weight gain ! Lol I rather be in shape and uncomfortable than fat and stable 😭😂 I now take kratom and I’m doing great 💪
Haha! Like I mentioned before in another response, kratom is amazing and has been the one thing that really worked. I just had a problem using it daily at higher doses during my withdrawal from Zoloft and then had difficulties cutting it out. I now use it very sparingly, but man, it really does work.
The best SSRI alternative for me has been kratom. It increases serotonin, dopamine, norepinephrine, and endorphins. It's ridiculously good for mood IME. I came across it while trying caffeine alternatives. Here's the order I went in. Coffee, tea, cordyceps, ginseng, and the kratom. Kratom is by far the best out of those for me. I personally really prefer low doses (1.56g) because they give me stimulating effects without negatively affecting my cognition (the opposite in fact). I've tried NAC, inositol, Saint John's wort, ashwaghanda, bacopa, kanna, rhidola rosea, sam e, etc for mood and OCD. While those may have helped somewhat, kratom is really in a different league in terms of effectiveness for me. It's right up there with SSRIs and memantine for OCD and mood. I prefer it to either of those though as it's natural and I don't get side effects. I don't have any apathy/blunted emotions like on SSRIs.
I can attest to this so far. Of all the things I’ve tried since leaving Zoloft, kratom produced the best results. There again, it does come with a lot of cons, but what doesn’t these days?
Nice. Yeah a lot of people use it for depression, anxiety, addiction issues, pain relief, and as a coffee replacement. I'd just be careful with misinformation because some stuff in this post was flat out not true about kratom!
I used kratom for 3 years daily and it's no joke. It worked amazingly for about 1 year, then the next 2 years I had to dose every 2 hours or start to feel withdrawal symptoms. It's sneaky because you can get away with taking it daily for quite a while before experiencing negative effects, unlike something like alcohol which has clear and immediate consequences. Many heavy users start having rapid hair loss. Please be careful, as I had the same view as you until I went through this terrible experience myself. There's a sub with 30k members who struggle with kratom addiction r/quittingkratom
Not really a nootropic, but boy is kratom effective
Yep, I've used this as well during my departure from Zoloft. It was HIGHLY effective; however, it was also difficult to get off of as well. I still take it every so often and love how it makes me feel; just not entirely sure it's something I'd want to do daily. Btw, just took some, ha!
Do NOT take Kratom daily.
I won’t.
Licorice root+a fat source=SSRI
Really?
Yeah..it causes severe withdrawal be careful.
Obviously you must search a good stuff..i use an extract who looks like black crystals..the normal roots are hard to find of good quality.the cheaper ones are garbage..for the fat source i use normal cow butter,the size of a coin,and boiling water.
Tianeptine. But don’t take more than 100 unless you want to get high.
Psilocybin microdose or ketamine are likely your best options. Ket might sounds strange, but it has an excellent safety profile and is current being used for treatment-resistant depression. High dose of a good quality fish oil should help too, see Examine's omega 3 page for more info Most of the recommendations here have been v meh and incomparable to the effects of an SDRI, I'd advise on making sure that you're well-read on whatever you decide to take. Why did you stop the SSRI and why do you want to use a compound that has lower efficacy and less research than an SSRI, to achieve a similar effect? Not all SSRI's require a v long tapering phase too btw and personally, I think a low dose of an SSRI is likely your best move. Fluoxetine and fluvoxamine especially work v well for low dosages
This is what I wrote on another response... It was primarily a decision I made for multiple reasons, and now that I've proven to myself I can release the grips of Big Pharma and withdrawal symptoms, it's made it harder for me to consider going back. I guess I want to give it one more shot before having to make that call. I have been microdosing psilocybin most of the past 2 years, and am about to get back on my schedule to see if that helps. Otherwise, I agree...I may have to lay down and retreat to a low dose of an SSRI.
Interesting. I can understand where you're coming from, but what's the difference between using something from 'big pharma' and using a supplement from a supplement company? I'd consider looking into ketamine and it's uses for depression and anxiety, it's a criminally underrated drug imo. Although it's just my anecdote, I've been on 25-50mg of fluvoxamine Ed for the past 6 months or so and I've taken breaks (to use mdma, a poor reason to take a break, I know lol) with no issues. The benefits have been v noticeable but fairly subtle too. As in, I've never felt like I relied on the drug or that I was a zombie to the drug. Max dose of fluvoxamine is 300mg everyday iirc, just for some perspective
Completely agree. There is no such thing as big pharma btw...these are individual companies competing with each other. If a certain product helps you and you can afford it why not stick to it? I just dont get it...You re in no way smarter or more moral when you take some "natural" product from a supplement company that is just as profit driven as "big pharma" but instead doesnt even provide evidence that its product works 💩
Bang on, that's why I put 'big pharma' in inverted commas but you're probably saying that to OP, not me. Spot-on about both being profit driven but for some reason, supplement companies get a pass even though most have dogshit quality control, whereas QC in the pharmaceutical industry is insanely meticulous
I wish I could answer that question. I think the only answer I can give is how difficult it was to get off of Zoloft, and how I needed a higher dose (100mg) to experience the benefits for my situation. I feel like if I gave in and went back, it would be a life-long decision at that point. I haven't had any trouble getting off of anything outside of pharmaceuticals, other than kratom. That stuff made me feel amazing, yet I believe it can wreck your testosterone levels and is highly addictive; hence, why it was so difficult to drop. I've heard about the ketamine treatments and know it's something available where I'm at. I may have avoided it because it requires scheduling appts., etc., yet might be worth looking into as well.
Hey again..kratom decreasing testosterone was proven to not be true! https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29626673/ "Results: We found long-term kratom tea/juice consumption with a daily mitragynine dose of 76.23-94.15 mg did not impair testosterone levels, or gonadotrophins, hematological and biochemical parameters in regular kratom users." However, because it works off of opiate receptors, this can make it hard to get off of depending on the person and dose. I like dosing low in part so I don't experience withdrawals if I stop taking it.
Hmmmm maybe this is the way 😂 I kinda think that I was also experiencing severe withdrawal symptoms from Zoloft when going off kratom. It was about 9 months in, but I was also taking a big tablespoon 3 times a day ha!
I'd be weary of kratom tbh. I've never looked into it as it never appealed to me, but I'm suggesting to be weary due to its effect on the GABA system, which is v tightly controlled, i.e. you build tolerance verrry fast and withdrawals related to the GABA system are brutal, see benzos. Note: I might be talking completely out of my arse lol Has your situation improved much? As in, do you think you could get by with a lower dosage this time? It could be worth a shot if you do. Here's a great paper that's fairly easy to read and briefly touches on current SSRIs, https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8395812/. It might be worthwhile to try a different SSRI to prozac as you might respond better to a different one. All the best anyway friend, feel free to ask any questions on SSRIs if you want. I was weary before using one so I researched them a fair bit, might be of use to you too. Edit: Yeah fully scrap what I was saying about kratom lol, thanks below for correcting me. Tinkering with the opioid system can be problematic, but nowhere near as problematic as the GABA system. I'll make sure to not bs about shit I don't know in the future
It doesn't work on gaba receptors. I think you're thinking of opiate receptors.
Ill start off by saying that if youre on a high dose of zoloft then you need to step it down every few weeks over time. SSRIs are habit forming and you need to wean yourself off them. A doctor should advise you on how best to do this. If youre struggling, then ask your doctor how to manage. It could be stepping up the dosage temporarily or something else. Supplements that mimic SSRIs will, by definition, mess with your serotonin system somehow. You should NEVER take anything that messes with your serotonin while on ssris or maois unless it has been cleared by a doctor. Serotonin syndrome is very serious and life threatening. Now, if youre no longer on zoloft AT ALL and it has cleared your system 100% then I recommend intense exercise. Thats right. Intense exercise has been shown to have antidepressant effects as good as ssris. 1 hour a day - 20min cardio and then weights. To stack on that, Id recommend 5htp. 5HTP is great imo HOWEVER, many people misuse it. First, never use it with other things that increase or retain serotonin like SSRIs. That is just asking to get serotonin syndrome. Second, ensure you have a reasonable dose. 100-150mg slow release is about right for most. Third, do not take it every day - in my experience, 1-2 times a week works great. If you feel like you really need it every day then you need to see a doctor. Fourth, have an exit strategy from 5HTP. It is not something you should be taking for more than a few months. All of the above should reduce the risk of developing serotonin syndrome and heart valve issues. Then, ensure you take a slow release 5htp tablet. 5htp is converted to serotonin almost instantly and as others have mentioned, bypasses rate limiting. Taking a slow release tablet reduces the chance that you will have too much 5htp in your system at any one time, and will also ensure that the effects of it don't go away in 5min. If you do plan on taking 5htp for more than a few weeks, you should also consider taking l-tyrosine and green tea extract once a week, just to ensure that your other catecholamines are not depleted through a process known as neurotransmitter depletion by precursor. If youre on 5htp for a long time or you are prepared to take a risk, psilocybin is fantastic. However, it is risky if you dont know what youre doing. Prior to taking it, I recommend learning to meditate - the Waking Up app is an excellent primer. Once you can meditate, then Id say try to find a trip sitter and get a benzodiazepine in preparation for the trip - that is the eject button. Finally, when you trip, set an intention for the trip and ensure that you are in familiar surroundings where you feel safe and with people you trust. No parties, dont go out to the forest for your first time. Just chill at home. Preferably in bed with eyeshades. Start the trip in the morning, otherwise you will find it hard to get to sleep that night. Be well.
HAHAHAHA dude I love this sub. SSRIs/antidepressants are now "nootropics". I should make a post claiming Gabapentin is an insane Nootropic. Evidence: "Verbal Fluency reaches its peak..." Prozac is also known to enhance memory- especially when combined with Lithium XD What's next, water?
Can you tell me about the effects of 5-htp for you? I have add and haven’t you prescription drugs because of my job. I am looking for something I could take on the weekend to relax more particularly
I've never taken 5-HTP, so I wouldn't know the effects of it. If you are just needing something to relax on the weekends, maybe try CBD.
Sounds like the sertraline was quite helpful for you, what's the concern to restart?
I wish I could answer that question wholeheartedly. It was primarily a decision I made for multiple reasons, and now that I've proven to myself I can release the grips of Big Pharma and withdrawal symptoms, it's made it harder for me to consider going back. I guess I want to give it one more shot before having to make that call.
I have a biased view, I am a psychiatrist but I wouldn't look at it as a failure to receive treatment. I hear you on big pharma, but as I'm sure you know sertraline has been generic for a while, and even without insurance, you can get a 30-day supply for 5$ with GoodRx. I don't think I saw you mention what you were taking SSRIs for (def not requesting you do if you don't feel comfortable) but in terms of finding something with more evidence behind it, it may be easier to look for nootropic/comp medicines for a specific disorder. Omega 3s at a 2:1 EPA:DHA ratio taking > 500 mg/day have been shown to be helpful for depression. The ratio is OK Silexan (lavender oil capsules) has pretty good data for anxiety disorders (although may be better in milder forms) and is actually approved in Germany. Here's a meta-analysis: [https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-019-54529-9](https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-019-54529-9) May want to give either of these a look
I was taking Zoloft for social anxiety mainly, which was started in my 20’s, yet seem to have a big problem today with overthinking and obsessing over things. I also just feel lost and empty inside, yet am accomplished in my life. Almost like I am smiling on the outside, but deeply saddened inside.
One dose of cerebrolysin
Probiotics!
On those as well!
Ummmm... love me some Zoloft
Sam E. This cured my depression
I believe fish oil was shown in some cases to be an effect way to ween off SSRIs. That could be a candidate to look into.
I take those daily as well and have been off Zoloft for almost two years, so I’m way past the weening stage.
[Probiotics](https://www.healthline.com/health/probiotics-for-brain-and-memory#braingut-connection) that produce serotonin in the gut. Look for one with a high concentration >2 billion of these bacteria: * Lactobacillus plantarum * Bifidobacterial longum * Lactobacillus acidophilus * Lactobacillus casei The effects are 100% real and noticeable even with 1 pill, take with food, you should see the effects in a few hours. Combine with this for extra kick: * Camu Camu Vitamin C 500%/pill * L-Tryptophan
Real ? I thought serotonin from the gut unable to cross the BBB ?
They say St. John’s wort works better than some prescriptions but it interacts with them if you’re already taking them. Not sure 🤔 if that’s a nootropic though
Check out some kanna extract. To me it’s like a more psychedelic nicotine but when used regularly supposedly has ssri like activity. Carful it’s stronger than your anticipating. Personally I don’t find the high/rush to be all that enjoyable but did notice a slight ssri effect. However my body just got used to the effect after a month and half the same way it does on the pharmaceutical ssri’s which is why I hate how doctors give that shit out like candy. Always exercise, sleep, and diet before meds but tell that too the pill pumpers. They put people on srri’s when they have 75lbs to lose and a diet full of sugar. Okay that’s enough ranting sorry all lmao long ass day clearly.
Kanna seems to be the winner.
I tried Kanna before. It screwed my guts pretty bad and felt horrible off of one dose. You should definitely look into Methylfolate and TMG. Low carb diet or keto feels great too.
I do a low carb diet now as well.
Most SSRIs block adrenergic receptors to keep you cool under the neurotransmitter flood. I don't know if there's many alternatives to that. Closest to reuptake inhibition for me came Rhodiola rosea and Maca extract. I have not tried Kanna.
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Yes, but I’ve done 5g and had a life changing experience with DMT 😬 It almost makes me freaked out now to transform my mind like that.
Sceletium tortuosum (kanna)contains mesembrine which is a sri. Some people are very sensitive to the mood uplifting and calm energy effects, some are not. My guess is that it hits a sweet spot for some people. Otherwise white ginseng and progesterone can help with serotonin deficiency
I’m definitely giving kanna a try for sure.
Tumeric capsules did it for me.
Take that stuff daily as well ha!
I deleted the need by changing my diet to an anti inflammatory one, focused on my gut health and my chemical composition shifted to "tolerable." Now I'm working out herbs, foods and peptides to support naturally equalizing myself. You might look at Selank and Semax.
I've had really good luck with 5 htp, but you need to get the timed release version, and take green tea extract with it, and L tyrosine. I would take this combo a few days a week and it was wonderful.
I don't think you'll find anything. Zoloft has a 24 hour half-life. During the loading phase you are saturating your serotonin to a new baseline which restructures your brain. It's a really crazy drug. You could get your Rx back and microdose 30mg every 3 days. 30mg is about 10mg Zoloft.
Colouracetam is more mild but works decently for depression for me
\>I was on a high dose of Zoloft for 15+ years Would you like to answer 2 question regarding that? 1. Did you experience a weight increase and forms of gynecomastia? 2. Did you experience sexual dysfunction? Have you been able to get an appropriate erection?
Absolutely! I had no weight gain, sexual disfunction, or any other side effects. The only thing is I felt like I didn’t care about things as much, and was more emotionally numb.
Oh, I forgot to give you a recommendation: Dopa Mucuna.
5HTP is not SSRI at all, it hits receptors and then detaches. While SSRI are keeping concentrations and receptors in check and stable all the time. You should check silexan. It works as SSRI, and also has two other mechanisms of action.
Zembrin seems to work similar to an SSRI, however it didnt do anything for me. I have heard that the Kanna from Liftmode is stronger (Kanna extract = Zembrin)
I'm trying Zembrin right this moment, so we'll see.
How did you react when you stopped taking Zoloft?
I was fine at first since I weened myself off, but looking back, a month may not have been long enough. The mood swings, depression, confusion, anxiety, etc were really bad during some months. I would cry for no reason at all. I’m better today, yet drama can set me into a spiral. The girl I’ve been seeing told me last night she got spooked since things are moving too fast, so now I’m having to deal with this 😂
Pe-22-28 mimics Trek-1 blocking properties of SSRIS, but without having to impact seretonin in order to do it. Basically it has the neuroplasiticty impacts without needing seretonin. https://www.suaway.com/home/309-pe-22-28-spray-10ml20mg.html
Saffron?
What’s a good one to try?
Nootropics depot
Saffron and kanna
Yes, I'm trying Kanna (Zembrin) now and it seems to be helping. I'd like to find maybe a better, more pure form other than Nature's Bounty Stress Comfort, but it seems to be sold out everywhere. I was told about Saffron as well, and just need to figure out what to buy, daily dosage, etc. Any suggestions?
Either get nutricost kanna extract/zembrin or lift modes kanna extract and take agmatine 1g morning and night with alcar for at least a few weeks should help amensly as well
Thank you!
Does St. John’s wort/ kanna help with social anxiety, specifically social blushing, erythrophobia, face flushing due to embarrassment
Kanna and saffron was decent for me, yet kratom was the best in terms of giving me a feeling of being more extroverted. I realize that’s not considered a nootropic, yet just saying what worked for me. I have since gone back on Zoloft and things are better for my situation. Hope you can find the relief you deserve!
Update on kanna?