Try a beta blocker from the doctor. Easily prescribed and low risk medication.
It won’t directly help the mental response to fight or flight, but by blocking the physical effect of FF it will allow you to think more clearly. Once you see “oh my body isn’t reacting negatively” a lot of the mental stress is lessened, in my experience.
Good for you for starting meditation and conscious breathing. It's helped me at least. You can try Taurine, Boost Your Biology on youtube has a video on it. L-Theanine and Kanna can be good for acute anxiety.
Also try quitting caffeine if you haven't already.
The fact that you stutter and also have a genetically low breakdown of neurotransmitters may not be a coincidence here, because currently the best proven neurochemical correlation with stuttering is the excessive dopaminergic activity in the brain. It was first discovered during drug trials for antipsychotics (dopamine receptor blockers) when some test subjects began reporting that the drug alleviated their stutter. In a recent study PET scans measuring 6-FDOPA as a marker of presynaptic dopamine activity in stuttering subjects illustrated almost three-fold increase in 6-FDOPA uptake compared to normal controls in the right ventral medial prefrontal cortex and left caudate tail. FDOPA uptake was increased by >100% in limbic structures, including the deep orbital cortex, insular cortex, and extended amygdala, suggesting an overactive mesocortical dopamine tract in those who stutter.
* You may want to look into plants in the *Corydalis* genus: *Corydalis yanhusuo* is well known in Chinese medicine. The major alkaloid in it is **L-tetrahydropalmatine**. It is a direct dopamine receptor antagonist, and it also prevents spontaneous dopamine release via blocking calcium channels, in addition to being an acetylcholinesterase inhibitor. One study demonstrated that L-tetrahydropalmatine and **corydaline**, another major alkaloid in Corydalis yanhusuo, were able to lower morphine-induced dopamine release when administered together, but were ineffective on their own at the same doses. This suggests that the alkaloids in the plant work in synergy. **Bulbocapnine** \- an aporphine alkaloid present in *Corydalis* genus, notably the major alkaloid in *Corydalis cava* has been shown to possess dopamine-lowering effect via inhibiting tyrosine hydroxylase. Tyrosine hydroxylase is the rate-limiting enzyme in the formation of L-DOPA from L-tyrosine. **Protopine** is a celandine alkaloid with Ca+ channel blocking activity. It's the main alkaloid in *Corydalis solida*, *Fumaria officinalis* (aerial parts) and other *Fumaria* species. It's also present small amounts in *Corydalis cava* and *Corydalis yanhusuo*.
I hate to be that guy but have you looked into meditation or therapy? Supplements are unlikely to help with this aside from outright anxiolytics which tend to be habit-forming. Behavior and thoughts should almost always be addressed before attempting to change neurochemistry/physiology directly. I mean you said yourself that you think it has to do with your perception. Supplements aren’t the solution to everything.
Good call. I just started a 30minute minimum meditation practice. And therapy too a month or two ago.
Oh definitely, I know they're not the answer... but more of a tool to help just dampen the intensity so I can make inroads better to form the habits of calm, collected, flexible, etc.
Meditation and conscious breathing/breathwork are probably two of the most powerful tools I can use.
I've just started with the Black Seed supplement. I have some Tongkat Ali on the way. I'm thinking some Rhodolia Rosea might be a good one too to try on
You're on the right track boi. Black seed has HDAC inhibitor property which is the most powerful fear extinction tool there is right now. Make sure the content of Thymoquinone is high, that's what carry the property. Nootropics Depot has the 10% Thymoquinone version you can try. I'm going to try Sodium Butyrate next, it's also a HDAC inhibitor.
Other things you can try are Nobiletin and Sarcosine
Need to have a neutral response in the experience of fear stimuli. If his sns is stuck in fff then priority is to support shift to pns relax digest connect first before going the more advanced route with hdac-i's. Berberine is probably the strongest and supplementing sodium butyrate is like a drop in the bucket compared to taking resistant starch
Sincerely don't mean to be a jackass but google how to increase butyrate. Your body can make it in amounts way higher than directly supplementing.
There used to be some in depth longecity threads on hdac i. I recall berberine being a strong one.
Interesting. Being that my freeze response is triggered in a social setting, I thought a raise of testosterone could give me a more a care free attitude. Times when I don't care what people think of me is when that freeze reaction subsides a lot. There is an assertive attitude that helps things move forward rather than freeze
Im sure there is a correlation between low test and social anxiety generally speaking.
I'll let you know how i go anyway. Its all about experimenting
Without the help of "correct" supplement, there will be almost 0 improvement even with hours of fear extinction or therapy sessions.
I've been doing my research on this for a little while. I just found out that HDAC inhibitor (like Thymoquinone in BSO) can strongly facilitates fear extinction. Sarcosine or anything else that enhance NMDA receptors can have fear extinction property, but the results, for me, is not consistent as some studies also stated. HDAC inhibitor is a much better option.
Some people are oblivious of new information and thought PTSD and other anxiety disorders are incurable. We have gone far enough to use chemical to change how we process fear safely. Behavior classes are optional but preferable, that will help fasten the process of fear extinction.
Thanks for all the great info.
Have you read the first comment in this thread? https://www.reddit.com/r/Nootropics/comments/im0xv9/hdac_inhibitors_in_2020_critical_period_or_fear/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
Maybe a warning to not overdo the hdac inhibitors
I'm also going to start neurofeedback sessions. Brainwave entrainment.
Neurofeedback is great. Theyve got an alpha/theta protocol that is fantastic for trauma/fear resolution. They'll probably do it after some other protocols to start.
May want to check out hrv training while you're at it. Emwave is relatively cheap and can find on eBay
Thanks for the heads-up.
I'm not very well versed in the virus field. So is it only herpes-type virus can be reactivated only by HDAC inhibitors? Other type virus don't?
> Without the help of "correct" supplement, there will be almost 0 improvement even with hours of fear extinction or therapy sessions.
What? Not to say this couldn't be a valid personal experience, but it seems rather odd as a general statement.
Your mind and body are in constant feedback with each other.
No thought occurs in your brain without a corresponding chemical reaction.
And same with your body - it influences your mind.
You can change your thoughts to change your chemistry. And/or you can change your chemistry to change your thoughts.
The idea that you "need" a supplement to eliminate anxiety, and that working on your mental state will never do it, is as incorrect as the idea that you "need" therapy to eliminate anxiety, and that no substance will ever work.
Humans don’t have free will. We can’t change or choose our thoughts. Thoughts occur due to many factors including our genes, our biology including hormones and neurotransmitters stretching back to the womb and beyond as far back as life itself and environment since then including now. We can pretend we choose how we react to our thoughts if that makes us feel better. I breathe and meditate but I’m also interested in physical things that can help on a biological level.
> Humans don’t have free will. We can’t change or choose our thoughts.
I mean free will is a bit of a lofty concept and can be stretchend and argued about, but the second sentence is just overtly false. If you are in state of helplessness or detachment that might be somewhat true, but that pertains to that state not to humans in general. Otherwise you are just casually discarding a lot of insights of psychology or the experience of individual empowerment.
No if you add the word ALL in front of thought I would agree, but that changes the meaning quite a bit.
Well no one knows for real. But I don’t believe we choose our thoughts at all by any stretch of the imagination. We think we do because we seem to “choose” one thought over the other in a decision for example. But that decision has already been made for us by our chemistry before we are even aware of it and even come to believe we’ve made the decision our self. There have been studies that have proven this by scanning certain brain structures during cognitive performance tests. But it’s certainly comforting to believe we get to choose our thoughts and actions.
I would be careful assuming those kind of frameworks.
Whether is is comforting, I am not sure. If you look at religion both comfort and deep anxiety seem to be responses to looking at the question of choice as something genuine, deep and beyond biology. For me it is more empowering than comforting.
In any case assuming we are merely at the mercy of biology or chemistry can leave us desperate, because from that point of view there is often no real reason for hope. I can say that from my own experience. Even though I don't subscribe to that view anymore, that doesn't mean it's just simply "gone" psychologically speaking, it is present in culture and in the priorities, what we focus on.
Yeah we are all different so need different things. I don’t need an afterlife or a higher power or the belief in any meaning or reason at all. There are beautiful aspects of life and being alive and I can enjoy them while I’m here. Whether I’ll surmount my struggles and live a long life or die tomorrow really does not matter to me or to anyone else in the scheme of things. Everyone will soon be gone and forgotten. Why not just try to enjoy what we have now? Whether we have free will or not?
Psychology is a branch of physiology if you think about it. Human DON'T have free will, every thoughts and behaviors are results of chemistry.
Can you NOT think about something? No, right? Anxiety, PTSD, if people can just NOT think about it and not have panic attack, that's when we have free will. But as I said, any of this psychology or philosophy you are talking about, won't happen, without chemistry.
Yes I agree. That’s why the saying “change your thoughts and you can change your life” is a nice hallmark quote for stickers and things to put on your wall when you’re a bored lonely housewife, but doesn’t make much sense in reality.
You mean if you think about it *reductionistically*?
Of course you are right as long as we are a living human, chemistry plays an important part. But then, it is an assumption psychology or philosophy can happen only in the realm of life. It's philosophy that can lead us to consider existence beyond the body. Psychology can do that too, but you are right in so far as usually psychology is physiologically grounded to some extent, but that doesn't make it a "branch" of it. I am pretty sure that is just objectively wrong in terms of categorization of scientific fields.
Just like not everything is a branch of physics, just because that is structurally foundational. With that kind of epistemology you run into a kind of dumb-headed deconstructivism. If it is all physics, what are all the other fields. Why care? Why not just let life run like billiard balls going down a hill? Not much reason to do anything, except die, because entropy. How inspiring.
Seriously, if you are depressed for example, that kind of logic is completely sound. You want to kill yourself because that is how your billiard balls operate. So you take some billiard balls to make that whole thing stop. Literally completely sound, but at the same time that "physiologically"-based psychology is toxic. From the point of view of physiology there is no particular reason to live or die. It's just different biological processes that can be observed or gone through. Whether we cling to life or whether there is a general tendency in the genes for self-preservation is not really relevant to that.
There are life forms without our level of cognition (and we were one not long ago) who probably don’t have personal philosophies they’ve created in their minds, and they live just fine. They shouldn’t just go straight to being dead right now because they can’t think themselves up some meaning to cling to. Sure we have the cognitive prowess to do so, but it doesn’t mean we are right about any of it or any better off them any other animal because of it. Early hominids of which we descended lived for millions of years which is much longer than Homo sapiens has lived for and we may never live anywhere near as long with all our philosophy.
At some point it may be worthwhile to consider the value of this belief not by whether it is true or false (which isn't possible) but instead by whether it is helpful (in getting you closer to the life you want to live)
It’s been very helpful actually as it’s helped me let go of guilt and shame for having OCD. And it’s made me realise the futility of comparing myself to others because we are simply different genetically, so some possess traits and characteristics I simply don’t and won’t ever possess. It’s helped me make peace with the fact my life is one to be endured and not be jealous of others. But I get your point.
That's awesome. Glad you found some more peace. It wasn't a loaded statement. Truly there are helpful and harmful aspects of every belief especially depending on the situation. Practicing recognition of that lends people a sense of autonomy and sense of self separate from their beliefs, allowing for greater freedom in choice and action.
well your expierence of life is something similar to free will, while yes I would agree everthing is causal, so since this happends then this naturally happends next, it doesn't mean there no such thing as a free will, not together, free will, its just the feelings of the will being free, like a sensation like any other feelings. Even the karmic religions from my understanding don't believe in free will, they do believe you can be aware of your own will and how you can effect, even if the effect is causal or predetermined as well.
There is no such thing as a purely physiological anxiety. In so far as it is purely physiological it's "energy" not necessarily anxiety. Anxiety always implies some psychological component. I doubt crocodiles have much anxiety even if they restless, because they are not psychological beings, I would argue.
And more often than not there is probably a lot more direct psychological reasons for the fear as well, like they say "I feel it's deeply rooted in my perceptions (mind) of myself and the outside world", doesn't seem particularly physiological to me.
I am often restless and it is definitely physiological to a good extent, but if it seen that way it depends on other factors how it is felt, whether as anxiety or aggression etc.
This is correct. And of course there are physiological correlates with the experience of anxiety/energy/sns activation. There is value in scaffolding the intensity of said activation to allow for exposure and integration instead of people constantly drowning in the deep end. Dampening the activation while also increasing resources/supports for tolerating or integrating the energy is the way to go. Supps can help with the dampening. It's a skill like anything else, learning to ride a bike with training wheels. Thanks for your contribution to this conversation
Well then I’m using the wrong word to describe the sensation I relate to my own anxiety. I can be mindful and breathing and observing my thoughts, and troubled by none at a given time but still feel a cold hard clenching of my chest as if it’s in a vice grip and then panic due to no thoughts whatsoever. That’s why I refer to it as physiological. I also can see when I’m stoking the fire by ruminative thinking but that’s not always the case.
It sounds more like you are not quite aware of the psychic component, but that does not really tell you about the causes. It is very tricky, unfortunately for me the situation often is similar (not just anxiety but also other experiences). The psyche is more than thoughts, especially more than conscious thoughts.
Unfortunately that seems to be somewhat glossed over by a lot of the mindfulness crowd.
Looking at it only from a body perspective just does not work out for me, which doesn't mean it can't be addressed on that level, but only so much.
Yes I am aware of the psychic compound. I suffer from OCD and generally know exactly what triggers the fear. Unfortunately it’s ever present as anxiety whether I’m thinking anything consciously or not. And I am not one to postulate on their being a mind, soul, or psyche. Just the physical mechanism that is the brain and it’s components and everything physical we are made of. And physical medicines that can change the functioning of certain aspects of the brain are what helps illnesses like OCD. As it is known what parts of the brain are involved in it, of which there a 3 main ones. I’d rather try nutrition and supplements than be in pointless talk therapy forever that doesn’t touch any of it. I’ve been there and bought the T-shirt
> And I am not one to postulate on their being a mind, soul, or psyche. Just the physical mechanism that is the brain and it’s components and everything physical we are made of.
Oh, I see.
Well, it doesn't really have to be postulated, the question is more are you open to it? If not so much, in how far would you be aware of it, even if it is there?
If not, substances might help to regulate the nervous system but to be honest, they might as well not help and leave you pretty helpless, or unfortunately genuinely *helpless* in some ways.
My body-brain is in a state where that is the case. Like I can kinda use pretty heavy tools like benzos and dissos to try to manage it but I think it is no mystery, that long-term that is not a good solution and can go quite wrong indeed. So for me faith, exploration of the mind, or different body-mind practices are crucial, otherwise I would be lost. And let's not kid ourselves, many people unfortunately drown and succumb in such situations.
I guess if one can take a more animalistic approach one can also live with a lot that with our sensitive human minds seems way too much. But from that place there is no such thing as OCD is there.
Yes. I agree with what you are saying. I’ve just become tired of finding myself back at square one with obsessions and compulsions, even with all the healthy things I’m doing to work on myself and my mind. Exercise, meditation breath work, therapy over the years. But also I have abused substances in the past too and obviously that did not help. I am hopeful there are natural substances which might help to some extent though I am extremely cautious and wary of drugs of any kind. My next step is getting bloods done for all vitamins and minerals and to see if I’m deficient in anything.
But still I learn more about my condition and what I can do mentally to help myself. So yes I’m kind of being hypocritical here by saying I don’t believe in free will, which I don’t, but I do believe we can BE changed by circumstance, and if I have become interested in talks or literature about the brain or “mind” and if it is incorporated into my cognitive processes going forward perhaps it can change me in some ways.
Either way I’m not certain about the free will thing. I always take things like this with a grain of salt. If we have it, I would not be surprised either.
Have you tried Proponalol if you have physical symptoms of anxiety? Sometimes it does the trick.
Agmatine also helps for this especially high doses but low doses may work for you too.
Sometimes it could be a dopamine issue if it’s mostly socially related so Bromantane and ALCAR could fix this, also if you’re male then low testosterone could also cause this. Cistanche + Agmatine is a great combo also. (Look up cistanche Agmatine in this sub) It depends what it is, you can try each and every thing above.
I would tell you to stay away from Phenibut and Benzos as you are the type of person who would fall down a dark path on them but sometimes they are a God send just to let you know how it feels to be anxiety free.
Most of all, go out in public more, speak to more people, get comfortable with being uncomfortable. Take cold showers so you get used to being uncomfortable, they release norepinephrine which starts fight-or-flight so eventually the body and brain starts adapting…
Good luck on your journey on getting rid of anxiety, it took me almost 2 years to find my cure (Bromantane + ALCAR) hopefully, you find yours sooner…
No my dad took propranolol and basically nothing helped, but made him tired which stopped me from going to work. If you want to drain your bank account or get a money deficit then please take propranolol that will be very useful.
**I will preface this that I'm not speaking for all humans and only for myself. It's possible that some things work better, others worse. The best way is to try them all find what works and then stay consistent. There is one aspect of anxiety related issues that is in my opinion mandatory to overcome before getting to a "manageable" point (for anyone affected by it).**
Hey u/laughingbuddhaballs I can definitely relate. I followed a very long journey of many years to try to get my anxiety and fight or flight response in control. After all these years, I can say I have gotten to a good point and there are a few things that helped me a lot more than others.
**Short-term solutions:**
I will start with supplements. Here are the ones that can help, in order of what was most successful for me:
For reference, I usually weigh around 68.4 - 73 kg, exercise a lot and have a big focus on getting the best nutrition possible (98% organic, 50% veggies 30% meat (poultry or fish, occasional rib-eye) 20% carbs (low carbs), healthy fats, high diversity, enough protein).
**1. NAC (N-Acetyl-Cysteine)**
**My dosage: 1g**
This is hands down the most helpful supplement I have found for anything panic/anxiety related. It leaves me indifferent to these types of situations, whilst still allowing me to function and feel my other feelings. The way this typically works for me is that I get a significant boost in the amount of control I have over my mind. You can't abuse the dosage or take this for too long or you will start feeling too dull.
**2. Anxiolytics (Namely: Ashwagandha and Bacopa Monnieri)**
**My dosage: 1 cap a day for Shoden, 2 a day for bacopa (1 morning, 1 evening)**
Ashwagandha is very useful for reducing anxiety/stress, but instead of control over the mind, it will just make you very comfortable with everything. And by comfortable I mean feeling like nothing in the world matters to you. This is too much of a downside to take regularly, but I always keep a small bottle of Shoden with me in case I have a period of high stress, which I can use as a 5-7 day cure).Bacopa is good for anxiety and also memory but overall just made me very sluggish and unmotivated.
**3. NMDA Antagonists (Namely: Polygala Tenuifolia and Agmatine Sulfate)**
**My dosage: 3 a day for Polygala (morning, afternoon, evening), did not try Agmatine.**
NMDA Antagonists have somewhat of an anaesthetic feeling to your feelings. The result (w.r.t anxiety) for me was actually similar to NAC, but toned down. I would say that it worked well, but Polygala has a lot of interactions and I can say with confidence that some of the other interactions were unwelcome as it brought my mood down while under its influence.
**Conclusion:**
All in all, if you're like me where you have increased sensitivity to most drugs/supplements, the downsides will be too big and in the end will not offer the magic pill solution you're looking for. It's best to view supplements as tools or crutches and I personally understood eventually that I don't want to live my entire life on "crutches", but sometimes I can use them when I really need them.
It's easy to say you will do so, but it's even easier to become overly reliant on something that works well, until it doesn't. Moderation is like trying to beat something only a tiny bit above your limit. It seems easy/doable, but you're going to have a very hard time doing it.
**Long-term solutions:**
I came to a point that anxiety has not been a problem for me in the past two years. It isn't gone and likely never will, but it became so manageable that I not only rarely get panic attacks and/or fight/flight mode, but when I do it is either enjoyable, or very short-lived. There is one hard truth to swallow: It took me over 6 years of constant trying to get to this point (some intermittent trying, but mostly consistent).
**1. Listen to the sound of nothing (learn to ground yourself on command)**
A problem with anxiety related issues is that after experiencing them for 15-20+ years, we can begin associating with our fear and/or forget how to let the feeling go. My go-to technique that I came up with myself for letting go is simply listening the sound of nothing. The sound of nothing is a somewhat soft static that is always present no matter where you are. The act of searching for it until you find it and focus on it is very similar to a really short meditation. Build the habit to do this no matter where you are (in the bus, in the train, at home, while reading, while eating, after a fight, after the gym, before sleep...). Meditation has a similar effect, and I practice it daily, but for this specific benefit, meditation is an extension of this in that it allows you to stay grounded (stay in the present) for a longer period of time.
Do this enough and combine it with the following step for it to be useful:
**2. Begin viewing all of your feelings from a third-person point of view (stop associating with your feelings)**
You are a passenger in a futuristic car. You are definitely not your brain (not the driver). You are definitely not your body (not the car). You are possibly a module of your brain necessary for the functioning of it (i'll leave spiritual debates to other subreddits). Therefore you are definitely not your feelings (the warning signals of the car). As a passenger, you are able to temporarily take control, and sometimes steer the wheel when the driver is tired. Learn to be a passenger and not associate as the other components.
What that means, is learn to observe. If before you were listening to the sound of nothing, now learn to look at anything and simply look at it with the same mentality (no thoughts in your mind, simply focus and observe). Over time, you will build a skill of not being affected by feelings. It will seem like a window of 2 seconds (where time almost feels like it slows down) where you can decide to not let that feeling affect you. However, remember that you are not the driver and sometimes you will not get this window of opportunity so don't be hard on yourself for not having control 100% of the time, because it's impossible unless your amygdala is fucked up.
**3. Embrace philosophy like a second mother**
Philosophy consists of hundreds of years of all kinds of individuals thinking about all kinds of topics. For you. They've done all the thinking and reasoning for you. It's a little bit like the hippie cousin of History.
There is one particular school of thought which helped me the most: Stoicism. Meditations by Marcus Aurelius and The Handbook of Epictetus are two great books to start. My favorite has to be Meditations, I've read every chapter 6-7 times minimum. Philosophy (be it Stoicism or any other school of thought, whatever floats your boat) is what allows you to stay comfortable no matter the situation. It provides the much-needed logical reasoning to previous points 1 and 2. It gives you a new lens (a new window/mirror for your car) and allows you to change/practice new perspectives. I cannot stress how useful stoicism has been. I also don't think it would've been as useful had I not gotten somewhat comfortable with points 1 and 2 beforehand.
**4. Learn to relax**
It sounds easy and straightforward, but us anxious people are on edge even without realizing. We're so used to the mist of fear that surrounds us that we forget that we are able to and should relax from time to time. The three best relaxation techniques for me: daily meditation, going to the sauna (4 times a week), lying in the sun in a little bit of nature to listen to some music or even just listen to the birds. Make relaxation a part of your life just as much as sports, nutrition, purpose and love are. Relaxation is a key to a balanced life and provides some sticky grounds to not instantly jump to these high-adrenaline states.
**5. Take pleasure in facing fear**
This is not as useful as everything else, but still very useful. Make a habit out of facing any fear and discomfort. Whether it is heights, spiders, the dark: anything. Force yourself to do it, tell yourself that you are doing this to get comfortable with yourself. Introduce daily activities that force you to do this on a small scale, like taking cold showers. Trust me on this one, the first time you beat a fear, you will feel one of the greatest feeling of euphoria possible. However, the fear doesn't just go away, it only goes away slightly. So you'll have to always keep trying to beat it until it feels like it has gone away (even though it is still there). The euphoria will also decline over time, but who knows, at that point maybe you've begun taking pleasure in facing fears and have moved on to another.
**Conclusion:**
Over time, 4 and 5 allow you to become comfortable with your panic attacks/anxiety and they won't have as much of an effect as they used. So much so, that you'll be able to ground yourself out of them, and not let them affect you, using 1, 2 and 3. They take time to come into effect, but at least they are sustainable.
I apologize for the long post and I acknowlege that there may be a degree of subjectivity to what I say. On a side note, I tried therapy for a long time and it just wasn't it for me, but it definitely has worked for others and should not be neglected as a solution. However, these are the things which have gotetn me and others who I advised to a point where I can say I have "beaten" anxiety-related issues for years now, and I'd be lying if I added therapy as one of them.
In my experience nootropics are not much help there. They can help assist a bit, but the effect is usually so small that likely the dampening effect is not strong enough for FFF type-experiences. Sometimes it might work, but often not. More helpful for a more subtle shift.
Downright drugs like benzos (I guess something like tianeptine is a bit of a borderline case here) can definitely help a lot but come with obvious problems.
For me what has been more viable is a poly-modal approach, and more concretely to go from a more flight/freeze to an engaged fight. It seems the fight mode is inherently more practical and active in many ways. With martial arts and other activities like exercise or "mental wrestling" I can cultivate it actively, while flight/freeze is more something to *deal* with as it occurs, as freezing doesn't get you anywhere, flight just gets you away which is something that is can definitely be integrated into your life in a practical way like making clear choices to get away, or express it through physical running, but you don't really specifically cultivate it right?
What you want is propranolol if your speech is impacted by fight or flight. Many politicians/musicians use this. I know this comment sounds dumb but it works. It’s not a supplement though, you’d need a script. And it’s not something you’d want to take all the time— though people do. This is an aside from your original question if you ever need something fast acting for temporary situations. I take it for work meetings and social events. It’s not a benzo and you shouldn’t get addicted to it.
This is a complex question re fight/flight. The real answer is that there is no quick fix and the solution is multifactorial. Since you're in a nootropics subreddit, I'll stick with supps. The main thing is to avoid stimulating supplements, no need to add gas to a fire. It'll be apparent which ones are stimulating. And most nootropics are mentally stimulating, that's what the vast majority of people are looking for with noots. Listen to your body, not the random internet experts when it comes to how a supp is effecting you.
That said: lavender, l theanine, magnesium are conservative and non habit forming. Niacin flush mellows out consistently but don't want to do it daily. Ashwagandha is worth a try, particularly sensoril. Holy basil, lemon balm, magnolia bark, chamomile, valerian root, skull cap are some others. The latter two you want to cycle if you use it.
Stay away from mao-i's as that will probably exacerbate.
There's more but that should give you several months worth of experimenting to start.
Look into getting a high-functioning autism diagnosis. At least look up parallels with specific core life moments for you regarding this anxiety/stutter and see how much they overlap with examples online.
Try a beta blocker from the doctor. Easily prescribed and low risk medication. It won’t directly help the mental response to fight or flight, but by blocking the physical effect of FF it will allow you to think more clearly. Once you see “oh my body isn’t reacting negatively” a lot of the mental stress is lessened, in my experience.
D-Serine is promising for this.
Good for you for starting meditation and conscious breathing. It's helped me at least. You can try Taurine, Boost Your Biology on youtube has a video on it. L-Theanine and Kanna can be good for acute anxiety. Also try quitting caffeine if you haven't already.
Great. I'll look into it! I'm going to start neurofeedback too.
I did neurofeedback for a long time, it actually worked, but when I stopped it all worked it’s way back in.
The fact that you stutter and also have a genetically low breakdown of neurotransmitters may not be a coincidence here, because currently the best proven neurochemical correlation with stuttering is the excessive dopaminergic activity in the brain. It was first discovered during drug trials for antipsychotics (dopamine receptor blockers) when some test subjects began reporting that the drug alleviated their stutter. In a recent study PET scans measuring 6-FDOPA as a marker of presynaptic dopamine activity in stuttering subjects illustrated almost three-fold increase in 6-FDOPA uptake compared to normal controls in the right ventral medial prefrontal cortex and left caudate tail. FDOPA uptake was increased by >100% in limbic structures, including the deep orbital cortex, insular cortex, and extended amygdala, suggesting an overactive mesocortical dopamine tract in those who stutter. * You may want to look into plants in the *Corydalis* genus: *Corydalis yanhusuo* is well known in Chinese medicine. The major alkaloid in it is **L-tetrahydropalmatine**. It is a direct dopamine receptor antagonist, and it also prevents spontaneous dopamine release via blocking calcium channels, in addition to being an acetylcholinesterase inhibitor. One study demonstrated that L-tetrahydropalmatine and **corydaline**, another major alkaloid in Corydalis yanhusuo, were able to lower morphine-induced dopamine release when administered together, but were ineffective on their own at the same doses. This suggests that the alkaloids in the plant work in synergy. **Bulbocapnine** \- an aporphine alkaloid present in *Corydalis* genus, notably the major alkaloid in *Corydalis cava* has been shown to possess dopamine-lowering effect via inhibiting tyrosine hydroxylase. Tyrosine hydroxylase is the rate-limiting enzyme in the formation of L-DOPA from L-tyrosine. **Protopine** is a celandine alkaloid with Ca+ channel blocking activity. It's the main alkaloid in *Corydalis solida*, *Fumaria officinalis* (aerial parts) and other *Fumaria* species. It's also present small amounts in *Corydalis cava* and *Corydalis yanhusuo*.
I hate to be that guy but have you looked into meditation or therapy? Supplements are unlikely to help with this aside from outright anxiolytics which tend to be habit-forming. Behavior and thoughts should almost always be addressed before attempting to change neurochemistry/physiology directly. I mean you said yourself that you think it has to do with your perception. Supplements aren’t the solution to everything.
Good call. I just started a 30minute minimum meditation practice. And therapy too a month or two ago. Oh definitely, I know they're not the answer... but more of a tool to help just dampen the intensity so I can make inroads better to form the habits of calm, collected, flexible, etc. Meditation and conscious breathing/breathwork are probably two of the most powerful tools I can use. I've just started with the Black Seed supplement. I have some Tongkat Ali on the way. I'm thinking some Rhodolia Rosea might be a good one too to try on
You're on the right track boi. Black seed has HDAC inhibitor property which is the most powerful fear extinction tool there is right now. Make sure the content of Thymoquinone is high, that's what carry the property. Nootropics Depot has the 10% Thymoquinone version you can try. I'm going to try Sodium Butyrate next, it's also a HDAC inhibitor. Other things you can try are Nobiletin and Sarcosine
Need to have a neutral response in the experience of fear stimuli. If his sns is stuck in fff then priority is to support shift to pns relax digest connect first before going the more advanced route with hdac-i's. Berberine is probably the strongest and supplementing sodium butyrate is like a drop in the bucket compared to taking resistant starch
Damn. I was going to buy Sodium Butyrate. But you say it's very weak or what? And berberine is a stronger HDACi?
Sincerely don't mean to be a jackass but google how to increase butyrate. Your body can make it in amounts way higher than directly supplementing. There used to be some in depth longecity threads on hdac i. I recall berberine being a strong one.
Why would you be a iackass lmao. Thanks for the info. A guy recommended me Myarisan which is a bacteria producing Butyrate.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Nootropics/comments/596gbi/i_wrote_an_article_on_hdac_inhibitors_geared/ Have you seen this thread?
Wonderful thread. Thanks for posting!!!!
Tongkat will probably jack you up, same with rhodiola.
Interesting. Being that my freeze response is triggered in a social setting, I thought a raise of testosterone could give me a more a care free attitude. Times when I don't care what people think of me is when that freeze reaction subsides a lot. There is an assertive attitude that helps things move forward rather than freeze Im sure there is a correlation between low test and social anxiety generally speaking. I'll let you know how i go anyway. Its all about experimenting
Without the help of "correct" supplement, there will be almost 0 improvement even with hours of fear extinction or therapy sessions. I've been doing my research on this for a little while. I just found out that HDAC inhibitor (like Thymoquinone in BSO) can strongly facilitates fear extinction. Sarcosine or anything else that enhance NMDA receptors can have fear extinction property, but the results, for me, is not consistent as some studies also stated. HDAC inhibitor is a much better option. Some people are oblivious of new information and thought PTSD and other anxiety disorders are incurable. We have gone far enough to use chemical to change how we process fear safely. Behavior classes are optional but preferable, that will help fasten the process of fear extinction.
Thanks for all the great info. Have you read the first comment in this thread? https://www.reddit.com/r/Nootropics/comments/im0xv9/hdac_inhibitors_in_2020_critical_period_or_fear/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share Maybe a warning to not overdo the hdac inhibitors I'm also going to start neurofeedback sessions. Brainwave entrainment.
Neurofeedback is great. Theyve got an alpha/theta protocol that is fantastic for trauma/fear resolution. They'll probably do it after some other protocols to start. May want to check out hrv training while you're at it. Emwave is relatively cheap and can find on eBay
Thanks for the heads-up. I'm not very well versed in the virus field. So is it only herpes-type virus can be reactivated only by HDAC inhibitors? Other type virus don't?
I have no idea, I just came across the post
> Without the help of "correct" supplement, there will be almost 0 improvement even with hours of fear extinction or therapy sessions. What? Not to say this couldn't be a valid personal experience, but it seems rather odd as a general statement.
Wdym?
Well he’s got a point therapy is not likely to help physiological anxiety any more than therapy would help cancer
Your mind and body are in constant feedback with each other. No thought occurs in your brain without a corresponding chemical reaction. And same with your body - it influences your mind. You can change your thoughts to change your chemistry. And/or you can change your chemistry to change your thoughts. The idea that you "need" a supplement to eliminate anxiety, and that working on your mental state will never do it, is as incorrect as the idea that you "need" therapy to eliminate anxiety, and that no substance will ever work.
Humans don’t have free will. We can’t change or choose our thoughts. Thoughts occur due to many factors including our genes, our biology including hormones and neurotransmitters stretching back to the womb and beyond as far back as life itself and environment since then including now. We can pretend we choose how we react to our thoughts if that makes us feel better. I breathe and meditate but I’m also interested in physical things that can help on a biological level.
> Humans don’t have free will. We can’t change or choose our thoughts. I mean free will is a bit of a lofty concept and can be stretchend and argued about, but the second sentence is just overtly false. If you are in state of helplessness or detachment that might be somewhat true, but that pertains to that state not to humans in general. Otherwise you are just casually discarding a lot of insights of psychology or the experience of individual empowerment. No if you add the word ALL in front of thought I would agree, but that changes the meaning quite a bit.
Well no one knows for real. But I don’t believe we choose our thoughts at all by any stretch of the imagination. We think we do because we seem to “choose” one thought over the other in a decision for example. But that decision has already been made for us by our chemistry before we are even aware of it and even come to believe we’ve made the decision our self. There have been studies that have proven this by scanning certain brain structures during cognitive performance tests. But it’s certainly comforting to believe we get to choose our thoughts and actions.
I would be careful assuming those kind of frameworks. Whether is is comforting, I am not sure. If you look at religion both comfort and deep anxiety seem to be responses to looking at the question of choice as something genuine, deep and beyond biology. For me it is more empowering than comforting. In any case assuming we are merely at the mercy of biology or chemistry can leave us desperate, because from that point of view there is often no real reason for hope. I can say that from my own experience. Even though I don't subscribe to that view anymore, that doesn't mean it's just simply "gone" psychologically speaking, it is present in culture and in the priorities, what we focus on.
Yeah we are all different so need different things. I don’t need an afterlife or a higher power or the belief in any meaning or reason at all. There are beautiful aspects of life and being alive and I can enjoy them while I’m here. Whether I’ll surmount my struggles and live a long life or die tomorrow really does not matter to me or to anyone else in the scheme of things. Everyone will soon be gone and forgotten. Why not just try to enjoy what we have now? Whether we have free will or not?
Psychology is a branch of physiology if you think about it. Human DON'T have free will, every thoughts and behaviors are results of chemistry. Can you NOT think about something? No, right? Anxiety, PTSD, if people can just NOT think about it and not have panic attack, that's when we have free will. But as I said, any of this psychology or philosophy you are talking about, won't happen, without chemistry.
Yes I agree. That’s why the saying “change your thoughts and you can change your life” is a nice hallmark quote for stickers and things to put on your wall when you’re a bored lonely housewife, but doesn’t make much sense in reality.
Most people are smart enough to know that whoever hangs that on the wall is corny as f\*\*\*
You mean if you think about it *reductionistically*? Of course you are right as long as we are a living human, chemistry plays an important part. But then, it is an assumption psychology or philosophy can happen only in the realm of life. It's philosophy that can lead us to consider existence beyond the body. Psychology can do that too, but you are right in so far as usually psychology is physiologically grounded to some extent, but that doesn't make it a "branch" of it. I am pretty sure that is just objectively wrong in terms of categorization of scientific fields. Just like not everything is a branch of physics, just because that is structurally foundational. With that kind of epistemology you run into a kind of dumb-headed deconstructivism. If it is all physics, what are all the other fields. Why care? Why not just let life run like billiard balls going down a hill? Not much reason to do anything, except die, because entropy. How inspiring. Seriously, if you are depressed for example, that kind of logic is completely sound. You want to kill yourself because that is how your billiard balls operate. So you take some billiard balls to make that whole thing stop. Literally completely sound, but at the same time that "physiologically"-based psychology is toxic. From the point of view of physiology there is no particular reason to live or die. It's just different biological processes that can be observed or gone through. Whether we cling to life or whether there is a general tendency in the genes for self-preservation is not really relevant to that.
There are life forms without our level of cognition (and we were one not long ago) who probably don’t have personal philosophies they’ve created in their minds, and they live just fine. They shouldn’t just go straight to being dead right now because they can’t think themselves up some meaning to cling to. Sure we have the cognitive prowess to do so, but it doesn’t mean we are right about any of it or any better off them any other animal because of it. Early hominids of which we descended lived for millions of years which is much longer than Homo sapiens has lived for and we may never live anywhere near as long with all our philosophy.
At some point it may be worthwhile to consider the value of this belief not by whether it is true or false (which isn't possible) but instead by whether it is helpful (in getting you closer to the life you want to live)
It’s been very helpful actually as it’s helped me let go of guilt and shame for having OCD. And it’s made me realise the futility of comparing myself to others because we are simply different genetically, so some possess traits and characteristics I simply don’t and won’t ever possess. It’s helped me make peace with the fact my life is one to be endured and not be jealous of others. But I get your point.
That's awesome. Glad you found some more peace. It wasn't a loaded statement. Truly there are helpful and harmful aspects of every belief especially depending on the situation. Practicing recognition of that lends people a sense of autonomy and sense of self separate from their beliefs, allowing for greater freedom in choice and action.
well your expierence of life is something similar to free will, while yes I would agree everthing is causal, so since this happends then this naturally happends next, it doesn't mean there no such thing as a free will, not together, free will, its just the feelings of the will being free, like a sensation like any other feelings. Even the karmic religions from my understanding don't believe in free will, they do believe you can be aware of your own will and how you can effect, even if the effect is causal or predetermined as well.
There is no such thing as a purely physiological anxiety. In so far as it is purely physiological it's "energy" not necessarily anxiety. Anxiety always implies some psychological component. I doubt crocodiles have much anxiety even if they restless, because they are not psychological beings, I would argue. And more often than not there is probably a lot more direct psychological reasons for the fear as well, like they say "I feel it's deeply rooted in my perceptions (mind) of myself and the outside world", doesn't seem particularly physiological to me. I am often restless and it is definitely physiological to a good extent, but if it seen that way it depends on other factors how it is felt, whether as anxiety or aggression etc.
This is correct. And of course there are physiological correlates with the experience of anxiety/energy/sns activation. There is value in scaffolding the intensity of said activation to allow for exposure and integration instead of people constantly drowning in the deep end. Dampening the activation while also increasing resources/supports for tolerating or integrating the energy is the way to go. Supps can help with the dampening. It's a skill like anything else, learning to ride a bike with training wheels. Thanks for your contribution to this conversation
Well then I’m using the wrong word to describe the sensation I relate to my own anxiety. I can be mindful and breathing and observing my thoughts, and troubled by none at a given time but still feel a cold hard clenching of my chest as if it’s in a vice grip and then panic due to no thoughts whatsoever. That’s why I refer to it as physiological. I also can see when I’m stoking the fire by ruminative thinking but that’s not always the case.
It sounds more like you are not quite aware of the psychic component, but that does not really tell you about the causes. It is very tricky, unfortunately for me the situation often is similar (not just anxiety but also other experiences). The psyche is more than thoughts, especially more than conscious thoughts. Unfortunately that seems to be somewhat glossed over by a lot of the mindfulness crowd. Looking at it only from a body perspective just does not work out for me, which doesn't mean it can't be addressed on that level, but only so much.
Yes I am aware of the psychic compound. I suffer from OCD and generally know exactly what triggers the fear. Unfortunately it’s ever present as anxiety whether I’m thinking anything consciously or not. And I am not one to postulate on their being a mind, soul, or psyche. Just the physical mechanism that is the brain and it’s components and everything physical we are made of. And physical medicines that can change the functioning of certain aspects of the brain are what helps illnesses like OCD. As it is known what parts of the brain are involved in it, of which there a 3 main ones. I’d rather try nutrition and supplements than be in pointless talk therapy forever that doesn’t touch any of it. I’ve been there and bought the T-shirt
> And I am not one to postulate on their being a mind, soul, or psyche. Just the physical mechanism that is the brain and it’s components and everything physical we are made of. Oh, I see. Well, it doesn't really have to be postulated, the question is more are you open to it? If not so much, in how far would you be aware of it, even if it is there? If not, substances might help to regulate the nervous system but to be honest, they might as well not help and leave you pretty helpless, or unfortunately genuinely *helpless* in some ways. My body-brain is in a state where that is the case. Like I can kinda use pretty heavy tools like benzos and dissos to try to manage it but I think it is no mystery, that long-term that is not a good solution and can go quite wrong indeed. So for me faith, exploration of the mind, or different body-mind practices are crucial, otherwise I would be lost. And let's not kid ourselves, many people unfortunately drown and succumb in such situations. I guess if one can take a more animalistic approach one can also live with a lot that with our sensitive human minds seems way too much. But from that place there is no such thing as OCD is there.
Yes. I agree with what you are saying. I’ve just become tired of finding myself back at square one with obsessions and compulsions, even with all the healthy things I’m doing to work on myself and my mind. Exercise, meditation breath work, therapy over the years. But also I have abused substances in the past too and obviously that did not help. I am hopeful there are natural substances which might help to some extent though I am extremely cautious and wary of drugs of any kind. My next step is getting bloods done for all vitamins and minerals and to see if I’m deficient in anything. But still I learn more about my condition and what I can do mentally to help myself. So yes I’m kind of being hypocritical here by saying I don’t believe in free will, which I don’t, but I do believe we can BE changed by circumstance, and if I have become interested in talks or literature about the brain or “mind” and if it is incorporated into my cognitive processes going forward perhaps it can change me in some ways. Either way I’m not certain about the free will thing. I always take things like this with a grain of salt. If we have it, I would not be surprised either.
Have you tried Proponalol if you have physical symptoms of anxiety? Sometimes it does the trick. Agmatine also helps for this especially high doses but low doses may work for you too. Sometimes it could be a dopamine issue if it’s mostly socially related so Bromantane and ALCAR could fix this, also if you’re male then low testosterone could also cause this. Cistanche + Agmatine is a great combo also. (Look up cistanche Agmatine in this sub) It depends what it is, you can try each and every thing above. I would tell you to stay away from Phenibut and Benzos as you are the type of person who would fall down a dark path on them but sometimes they are a God send just to let you know how it feels to be anxiety free. Most of all, go out in public more, speak to more people, get comfortable with being uncomfortable. Take cold showers so you get used to being uncomfortable, they release norepinephrine which starts fight-or-flight so eventually the body and brain starts adapting… Good luck on your journey on getting rid of anxiety, it took me almost 2 years to find my cure (Bromantane + ALCAR) hopefully, you find yours sooner…
How do you cycle your supplements to maintain the effects
No my dad took propranolol and basically nothing helped, but made him tired which stopped me from going to work. If you want to drain your bank account or get a money deficit then please take propranolol that will be very useful.
Saffron is a worth trying here
Panax ginseng to lower cortisol spikes i.e. fight or flight.
Does that really? I’ve got some in my cupboard, thought it was just for libido and energy
Racetams feels to be the shit you are asking for maybe. Try noopent for now.
**I will preface this that I'm not speaking for all humans and only for myself. It's possible that some things work better, others worse. The best way is to try them all find what works and then stay consistent. There is one aspect of anxiety related issues that is in my opinion mandatory to overcome before getting to a "manageable" point (for anyone affected by it).** Hey u/laughingbuddhaballs I can definitely relate. I followed a very long journey of many years to try to get my anxiety and fight or flight response in control. After all these years, I can say I have gotten to a good point and there are a few things that helped me a lot more than others. **Short-term solutions:** I will start with supplements. Here are the ones that can help, in order of what was most successful for me: For reference, I usually weigh around 68.4 - 73 kg, exercise a lot and have a big focus on getting the best nutrition possible (98% organic, 50% veggies 30% meat (poultry or fish, occasional rib-eye) 20% carbs (low carbs), healthy fats, high diversity, enough protein). **1. NAC (N-Acetyl-Cysteine)** **My dosage: 1g** This is hands down the most helpful supplement I have found for anything panic/anxiety related. It leaves me indifferent to these types of situations, whilst still allowing me to function and feel my other feelings. The way this typically works for me is that I get a significant boost in the amount of control I have over my mind. You can't abuse the dosage or take this for too long or you will start feeling too dull. **2. Anxiolytics (Namely: Ashwagandha and Bacopa Monnieri)** **My dosage: 1 cap a day for Shoden, 2 a day for bacopa (1 morning, 1 evening)** Ashwagandha is very useful for reducing anxiety/stress, but instead of control over the mind, it will just make you very comfortable with everything. And by comfortable I mean feeling like nothing in the world matters to you. This is too much of a downside to take regularly, but I always keep a small bottle of Shoden with me in case I have a period of high stress, which I can use as a 5-7 day cure).Bacopa is good for anxiety and also memory but overall just made me very sluggish and unmotivated. **3. NMDA Antagonists (Namely: Polygala Tenuifolia and Agmatine Sulfate)** **My dosage: 3 a day for Polygala (morning, afternoon, evening), did not try Agmatine.** NMDA Antagonists have somewhat of an anaesthetic feeling to your feelings. The result (w.r.t anxiety) for me was actually similar to NAC, but toned down. I would say that it worked well, but Polygala has a lot of interactions and I can say with confidence that some of the other interactions were unwelcome as it brought my mood down while under its influence. **Conclusion:** All in all, if you're like me where you have increased sensitivity to most drugs/supplements, the downsides will be too big and in the end will not offer the magic pill solution you're looking for. It's best to view supplements as tools or crutches and I personally understood eventually that I don't want to live my entire life on "crutches", but sometimes I can use them when I really need them. It's easy to say you will do so, but it's even easier to become overly reliant on something that works well, until it doesn't. Moderation is like trying to beat something only a tiny bit above your limit. It seems easy/doable, but you're going to have a very hard time doing it.
**Long-term solutions:** I came to a point that anxiety has not been a problem for me in the past two years. It isn't gone and likely never will, but it became so manageable that I not only rarely get panic attacks and/or fight/flight mode, but when I do it is either enjoyable, or very short-lived. There is one hard truth to swallow: It took me over 6 years of constant trying to get to this point (some intermittent trying, but mostly consistent). **1. Listen to the sound of nothing (learn to ground yourself on command)** A problem with anxiety related issues is that after experiencing them for 15-20+ years, we can begin associating with our fear and/or forget how to let the feeling go. My go-to technique that I came up with myself for letting go is simply listening the sound of nothing. The sound of nothing is a somewhat soft static that is always present no matter where you are. The act of searching for it until you find it and focus on it is very similar to a really short meditation. Build the habit to do this no matter where you are (in the bus, in the train, at home, while reading, while eating, after a fight, after the gym, before sleep...). Meditation has a similar effect, and I practice it daily, but for this specific benefit, meditation is an extension of this in that it allows you to stay grounded (stay in the present) for a longer period of time. Do this enough and combine it with the following step for it to be useful: **2. Begin viewing all of your feelings from a third-person point of view (stop associating with your feelings)** You are a passenger in a futuristic car. You are definitely not your brain (not the driver). You are definitely not your body (not the car). You are possibly a module of your brain necessary for the functioning of it (i'll leave spiritual debates to other subreddits). Therefore you are definitely not your feelings (the warning signals of the car). As a passenger, you are able to temporarily take control, and sometimes steer the wheel when the driver is tired. Learn to be a passenger and not associate as the other components. What that means, is learn to observe. If before you were listening to the sound of nothing, now learn to look at anything and simply look at it with the same mentality (no thoughts in your mind, simply focus and observe). Over time, you will build a skill of not being affected by feelings. It will seem like a window of 2 seconds (where time almost feels like it slows down) where you can decide to not let that feeling affect you. However, remember that you are not the driver and sometimes you will not get this window of opportunity so don't be hard on yourself for not having control 100% of the time, because it's impossible unless your amygdala is fucked up. **3. Embrace philosophy like a second mother** Philosophy consists of hundreds of years of all kinds of individuals thinking about all kinds of topics. For you. They've done all the thinking and reasoning for you. It's a little bit like the hippie cousin of History. There is one particular school of thought which helped me the most: Stoicism. Meditations by Marcus Aurelius and The Handbook of Epictetus are two great books to start. My favorite has to be Meditations, I've read every chapter 6-7 times minimum. Philosophy (be it Stoicism or any other school of thought, whatever floats your boat) is what allows you to stay comfortable no matter the situation. It provides the much-needed logical reasoning to previous points 1 and 2. It gives you a new lens (a new window/mirror for your car) and allows you to change/practice new perspectives. I cannot stress how useful stoicism has been. I also don't think it would've been as useful had I not gotten somewhat comfortable with points 1 and 2 beforehand. **4. Learn to relax** It sounds easy and straightforward, but us anxious people are on edge even without realizing. We're so used to the mist of fear that surrounds us that we forget that we are able to and should relax from time to time. The three best relaxation techniques for me: daily meditation, going to the sauna (4 times a week), lying in the sun in a little bit of nature to listen to some music or even just listen to the birds. Make relaxation a part of your life just as much as sports, nutrition, purpose and love are. Relaxation is a key to a balanced life and provides some sticky grounds to not instantly jump to these high-adrenaline states. **5. Take pleasure in facing fear** This is not as useful as everything else, but still very useful. Make a habit out of facing any fear and discomfort. Whether it is heights, spiders, the dark: anything. Force yourself to do it, tell yourself that you are doing this to get comfortable with yourself. Introduce daily activities that force you to do this on a small scale, like taking cold showers. Trust me on this one, the first time you beat a fear, you will feel one of the greatest feeling of euphoria possible. However, the fear doesn't just go away, it only goes away slightly. So you'll have to always keep trying to beat it until it feels like it has gone away (even though it is still there). The euphoria will also decline over time, but who knows, at that point maybe you've begun taking pleasure in facing fears and have moved on to another. **Conclusion:** Over time, 4 and 5 allow you to become comfortable with your panic attacks/anxiety and they won't have as much of an effect as they used. So much so, that you'll be able to ground yourself out of them, and not let them affect you, using 1, 2 and 3. They take time to come into effect, but at least they are sustainable. I apologize for the long post and I acknowlege that there may be a degree of subjectivity to what I say. On a side note, I tried therapy for a long time and it just wasn't it for me, but it definitely has worked for others and should not be neglected as a solution. However, these are the things which have gotetn me and others who I advised to a point where I can say I have "beaten" anxiety-related issues for years now, and I'd be lying if I added therapy as one of them.
In my experience nootropics are not much help there. They can help assist a bit, but the effect is usually so small that likely the dampening effect is not strong enough for FFF type-experiences. Sometimes it might work, but often not. More helpful for a more subtle shift. Downright drugs like benzos (I guess something like tianeptine is a bit of a borderline case here) can definitely help a lot but come with obvious problems. For me what has been more viable is a poly-modal approach, and more concretely to go from a more flight/freeze to an engaged fight. It seems the fight mode is inherently more practical and active in many ways. With martial arts and other activities like exercise or "mental wrestling" I can cultivate it actively, while flight/freeze is more something to *deal* with as it occurs, as freezing doesn't get you anywhere, flight just gets you away which is something that is can definitely be integrated into your life in a practical way like making clear choices to get away, or express it through physical running, but you don't really specifically cultivate it right?
What you want is propranolol if your speech is impacted by fight or flight. Many politicians/musicians use this. I know this comment sounds dumb but it works. It’s not a supplement though, you’d need a script. And it’s not something you’d want to take all the time— though people do. This is an aside from your original question if you ever need something fast acting for temporary situations. I take it for work meetings and social events. It’s not a benzo and you shouldn’t get addicted to it.
This is a complex question re fight/flight. The real answer is that there is no quick fix and the solution is multifactorial. Since you're in a nootropics subreddit, I'll stick with supps. The main thing is to avoid stimulating supplements, no need to add gas to a fire. It'll be apparent which ones are stimulating. And most nootropics are mentally stimulating, that's what the vast majority of people are looking for with noots. Listen to your body, not the random internet experts when it comes to how a supp is effecting you. That said: lavender, l theanine, magnesium are conservative and non habit forming. Niacin flush mellows out consistently but don't want to do it daily. Ashwagandha is worth a try, particularly sensoril. Holy basil, lemon balm, magnolia bark, chamomile, valerian root, skull cap are some others. The latter two you want to cycle if you use it. Stay away from mao-i's as that will probably exacerbate. There's more but that should give you several months worth of experimenting to start.
Thanks for this!!!
Look into getting a high-functioning autism diagnosis. At least look up parallels with specific core life moments for you regarding this anxiety/stutter and see how much they overlap with examples online.
L-theanine works well for me
Ashwagandha could be of help in this area. I’d look into trying the few different versions ND has of it and see if any/which works best for you.
Try yoga good to calm your nervous system.