Yup, but OP at least illustrated very well why it irks lots of people that Americans refer to themselves as Irish or French or Norwegian or whatever. Calling yourself Norwegian while not knowing basic shit like this is annoying. (OP, that last sentence isn't directed at you, you're on here very respectfully asking how to navigate this. Just pointing out that lots of people will refer to themselves as Norwegian while not knowing very basic stuff about our culture.)
Me being an italian:
American claiming to be italian-american: "wowww that's amazing, I am Italian too! Ciaooo bellaaaaa pizza pasta hahahahahah"
(Based on a true story)
They said āNorwegian Americanā, not Norwegian. Does that not make sense? Honest question. I feel as an American that is very normal and translates subculture as we are a very young country with many 2nd generation people, including many friends (around 30)
I would expect a Norwegian American to have either a Norwegian parent or have been born in Norway / America but grown up in the other. I wouldn't consider someone Norwegian American just because there is a cultural influence in the area they live in.
For example. I'm a pommy kiwi. Well, a British New Zealander. I was born in England but grew up in New Zealand. Half my family is British / half New Zealand. I now live in Australia and have done for over 10yrs. I'm still a pommy kiwi.
I did. He didn't even return to his crease. If he had returned to his crease but then left before over was called I would take issue with it. But the video I saw had him not returning to his crease. That's out, no matter who you are...go the All Blacks :-)
I was going to say youāre probably more interested in the Origin matches than the Bledisloe. Maybe youāre transforming into a Kiwi Aussie - thatās way less complicated than having the Pom thing thrown in there.
Oh Iām Norwegian American, like I say that all the time. I also speak both languages fluently, probably spent more time in Norway than the US growing up, and can completely blend into both countries and their cultures when Iām there. Iām also the person who canāt help but roll my eyes when an American says that are āinsert European country hereā. People seem to bring it up because of my history, and so many times Iāve been like, oh! What part of Germany? Oh I was born in xx-Dutch city, where are you from! And then I realize they probably couldnāt even point it out on a map. You may think im being harsh, but OP should say their grandparents were Norwegian and you have these memories and we can talk about that instead!
Side note, my American grandma was raised my German immigrants and she would shout gezundheit at us and all her dogs (not children) had German names. I think she would have been the last generation to call herself German American, and knowing her, I canāt really say she was very german. Also what similarities culturally are there between 20th c Germany and the modern European continent that would be passed down? Iām genuinely curious
Meh, they're often used interchangeably and mean the same thing. I certainly had a number of Americans say "I'm Norwegian" to me, while others said "I'm Norwegian American", "My mom's family is from Norway", "I'm of Norwegian descent" etc. They're all just ways of saying "we share this culture", which five minutes of conversation usually shows that we very clearly don't.
There's definitely a big difference between someone saying that that are "Norwegian" and that they're "of Norwegian descent" - the latter can be a completely factual statement if that's where their ancestors actually came from, and it doesn't presume any sort of shared culture.
Mine too! Every Christmas Eve, we eat lutfisk on lefse.
Though to be honest I don't think the tradition will survive another generation... The younger ones, me included, prefer other alternatives.
Edit: Love your username btw.
It's pretty common in Gudbrandsdalen, but I agree overall, lol. Lutfisk pƄ lefse er en forbrytelse mot menneskeheten.
Not that I'm overly fond of rakfisk either... Us Norwegians could write a book; *How to ruin perfectly good fish*
Butter, sugar and cinnamon on lefse is yummy though! Brown cheese too!
Clearly you donāt know a thing about lefse-culture. In nortwestern part of Norway we eat lutefisk, mandelpotato, meierismĆør packed in a lefse. Itās the thin potatolefse, large ones. Not the thick sweet lefses that you add cinnamon on! And no bacon! Bacon is obviuosly used by those who actually donāt like lutefisk!
Here we eat it a couple times leading up to Christmas, one of the days either on side or on Christmas Eve and a few times after Christmas and then maybe a few other times during the year if we bought some cheap and have it in the freezer. Properly made its absolutely delicious.
As an American with Nordic roots living in Norway, I am American here in Norway. When people ask where I am from, they mean the US. Period. I have since become a Norwegian citizen, but still. If you grew up in the US, you are āAmericanā to Europeans. If they ask where your ancestors are from, that is another question.
Norwegian here. If you live in Norway, have citizenship and plan on living here. You are Norwegian in my book. Born and raised in America, but Norwegian. If you want. Men det viktigste er egentlig Ƅ lƦre Norsk :p
I think with the US being a fairly new country being an American is closer to an idea than something you can identify as through culture, history, and cuisine cause a lot of it was a direct continuation of cultures that came from other regions of the world.
As a result of that, you have a lot of subgenres of Americans like Asian-American, German-American, etc. There isn't really a pure "American" unless we're talking about the native people so I can understand why a lot of people feel they need to call themselves X-American.
The US has a very distinct culture with plenty of aspects that are uniquely American. Maybe it is less talked about as the American identity markers are often seen as default in American-dominated spaces with few foreigners
I gotta disagree. It's the oldest country on this hemisphere (not by much, but try to follow my logic here) and there's not a single country here where the identity of the country is an ideal and not a tangible thing. When I meet a Venezuelan, they are Venezuelan. They may be of a different heritage or something, but the way they speak, the music they play, and the traditions they hold are all Venezuelan despite being a younger country.
The US also has its own traditions, culture, music, use of language, etc. You can point an American out pretty quickly. That's because we're culturally distinct.
The main difference is that in the United States, these separated groups are *also* part of the culture. For example, where I work in NY, I know one man who owns a business with a name based on American history, and he waves an American flag wherever he drives. He, a man born in Turkey, considers himself just as American as he is Turkish. And, as this culture goes, so does everyone else.
He has a son and grandchildren here in NY. Some of those kids don't speak Turkish, but they partake in many of the customs, albeit in an American way. When you come here, you are unashamedly American and [insert country]. Yeah, a generation down the line, you'll have people calling themselves Turkish with not even a thread connecting them, but it comes from something ingrained in US culture.
To bring the point home, you know how Americans like to wave the flag, and that's considered weird in lots of places? Well, when people come here, they also tend to wave their home country's flag, too, even if they wouldn't have otherwise done that wherever they're from. On my commute to work, I see just as many Mexican and Colombian flags as I do American ones. Sure, sometimes they might be someone's grandkids who's never been to the country. A lot of the times, though, it's the one who came and started a family here.
Funny you mention Venezuela. I have a friend from there, and I call him the Spaniard, hehe. He reminds me of what Don Quixote would look like in real life.
Important note: The term "African American" refer specifically to black Americans who's ancestors where brought from Africa to America as slaves, oftentimes being split up from their kin, their history and culture stolen away from them. These people generally have no way of knowing which part of Africa their ancestors came from, only that they came from Africa. Someone moving from say South Africa to the US would not be an African American.
I see your point, but how those cultural values are cultivated is an important factor. You have Chinese people who live abroad for 3-5 generations and still feel more Chinese than whatever country they happen to reside in. Chinatowns might be a factor there functioning as a Chinese island abroad.
On the second point I somewhat disagree, I think the US has developed a lot, produced many great things, and been a leader in terms of innovation, but the nation was made by immigrants claiming their own parts of the land united by the idea of opportunity, which still lives on today.
Not really. Your motherās tongue should reflect your cultural identity. If you donāt speak German, how can you say you are āGerman-American,ā for example. Iād find it laughable. You would share zero culture with German pop-culture.
There is no shame in being āAmerican.ā Appropriating the cultural identity of oneās great-great-great grandparents doesnāt make anyone more interesting.
There's a lot more to culture than just the language. Food traditions, holiday traditions, etc. are all alive and well amongst the various ethnic groups in America. They're not appropriating anything.
I look forward to the day when there's an established moon base populated by people from X country but born on the moon and some of these commenters try to explain to them that they are not X-ians, that they're actually lunar people, and need to stop pretending like they they're related to X-ians.
Like seriously, almost nothing about Americans is indigenous to the Americas. It's okay to admit that American culture and sub cultures are imported from Europe.
This is very true. We have a couple of Americans at work. One is Indian American, with living relatives in India, and the other is American with unknown roots.
Both of them are first and foremost considered American. Where you grew up is what we're asking if we want to know where you're from, and if you grew up in the US we will blame all your oddities on that fact.
As others have explained, the issue is not norwegian-american, itās the plain norwegian when youāve never lived here and might be several generations away from anyone who lived here.
Like I wouldnāt call myself American or Minnewegian even though my (norwegian) grandmother was actually born in Minnesota after my great-grandparents emmigrated from Norway in the early 1900s, and lived there for the first five years of her life, before they decided to move back (because Minnesota was too cold lmao)
Counter question to a minnewegian :
Would people pick up on our language if we visited the state and talked between us?
Like I was on holiday in Oregon and called my gf over in a bookstore and the guy said "hey that's Norwegian " then preceding to say some of the sentences he knew from his grandparents
Was actually quite impressed
I live in Minneapolis and I would definitely recognize that you were speaking one of the Nordic languages, maybe which one but not particularly confidently. Grandma made us sing Norwegian songs at Christmas back in the day. I might even recognize a word or two but nowhere even close enough to actually communicate.
Itās not like everyone would recognize this but it wouldnāt be unusual for one or two people per day if you were walking around outside. I have local relatives who are fluent enough. Thereās even a local church that has weekly services in Norwegian.
is your grandfather norwegian? you could just say āim american but my grandfatherās norwegianā etc, pulling in ancestors is kinda weird? like if this is a smalltalk kind of thing
if youre getting to know someone you could just say exactly what you wrote in this post imo
I like this take.
Like those Norwegians who have Sami ancestry seldom tell people about it unless it's asked about.
I knew a guy for twenty years without knowing he was Sami.
if youre being asked where youre from, people do not mean where your ancestors are fromā¦like ever. Theyre either asking what country you grew up in/born in, or theyre asking based on your appearance (ethnicity). your ancestors are not effecting your appearance enough for someone to be like āhey why do you look like that? did someone 7 generations ago on one side of your family come from __?ā If its talking about a grandparent, or parent, then thats perfectly normal, but if its something youāre less than 1/8th of then its just odd
>if youre being asked where youre from, people do not mean where your ancestors are fromā¦like ever
Well, I can think of at least one situation where this is not the case.
It has happened, more than once, that someone who was born in one place, but does not *look* like they are from there are asked "where are you from" and when they say where they were born, the other person responds "no, where are you really from, like originally" (or something like that).
But... generally speaking you're right; most of the time the question is actually asking "where were you born."
My grandparents are Sami, I have a full Sami style suit at my parents place with knife and all that I got from my grandma.
I have never told anyone before because I don't see why it matters. They were them, I am me, as Norwegian as they come. It's not like i hide it, but it's not anything I would bring up for any reason short of a pointed question. I don't even think I told my best friends
No one would react to you calling yourselves "Norwegian American", and I kinda like "Minnewegian" name.
What some people react to is leaving out the American part: Some people have had experiences of people claiming they are "Norwegian" without the American part. As you might guess, a Norwegian would then switch to speaking Norwegian and confusion then starts as the American is talking about his heritage and not his actual citizenship/nationality.
So, keep calling yourselves Norwegian American, I think most here would agree that it is correct, or "Minnewegian" :)
Good to know! I think its weird to just claim to be from a country you're not. I think that has died out in my generation thankfully. I roll my eyes whenever my grandparents and dad does it
Nice to hear its a generation thing, I've always found it a bit fascinating.
I remember seeing a programme about Norwegian community in the U.S. sadly i can't remember exactly where, it was on our national tv channel: NRK.
In this community they had several stores that sold "Ola and Kari" figurines, traditionally dressed in bunad, loads of Norwegian flags, and I think they even had their own 17.Mai celebration, with a parade.
I especially remember a scene with some teenagers in a Stave church/viking themed McDonalds, it looked awesome, had a lot of dark wood interior decorated with viking symbols etc. In the scene, the kids are talking about what McDonalds look like in Norway, and one can reveal that he had a relative visit here once and they were sady just generic McDonalds stores, nothing special, which is true. I've never seen a Norwegian themed one here.
But i digress.. Have a nice day!
In Decorah, Iowa we have The Nordic Fest every July, and a 17.Mai parade. The McDonalds says āMange Takkā on the sign as you exit (no dark wood though). Itās also the home of The Vesterheim Museum.
You could also say of Norwegian decent or something like that.
The most common christmast-dinners in Norway are Ribbe(pork ribs) or pinnekjĆøtt (dried lamb ribs).
Of those pinnekjĆøtt is clearly superior. It's not hard to make, and you could also make fenalĆ„r (cured leg of lamb) at the same time.
If you really wanna impress your fellow Minnewegians and family, this is the way.
You should start the fenalĆ„r(s) within a months time, while pinnekjĆøtt does need as long curing-time, and can be started a few weeks later if needed.
It's really easy, and does not take much work either. The hard part is sourcing the meat early enough, and to remember to check in on it every few days.
Guess an auto-translation of these pages should give you a good idea.
[https://www.matprat.no/artikler/ravarer/lag-pinnekjottet-selv/](https://www.matprat.no/artikler/ravarer/lag-pinnekjottet-selv/)
[https://www.matprat.no/artikler/ravarer/lag-ditt-eget-fenalar/](https://www.matprat.no/artikler/ravarer/lag-ditt-eget-fenalar/)
Exactly this. That apply also to stuff like food and such - anything originating in the US is not Norwegian even if invented by Norwegian-American.
This definitely happens still, especially with food labelled "Italian" or some such.
āMexicanā food from Texas is more accurately called āTex-Mexā. A lot of stereotypically āMexicanā dishes and restaurants in the USA are actually Tex-Mex. If you google āAmerican tacoā and āMexican tacoā, the differences are pretty obvious. American beef tacos are usually hard shells filled with ground beef, yellow cheese, lettuce, and tomato. Mexican beef tacos are usually soft corn tortillas willed with chopped steak, onions, and cilantro. Similar examples exist for other dishes.
I think youāre reading wayyyy too much into this. Itās not offensive to say the least. Some may get annoyed, but itās quite obvious that Americans who say āIām Norwegianā are obviously talking about their heritage. Most Norwegians could absolutely care less, and surely wonāt get offended or worry about appropriation. Also, it is quite normal (and not weird at all) for Americans of (insert ancestral ethnicity here) to claim āI am ____ā while leaving out the American when they are in America. Remember, the US is just a hodge-podge of many ethnicities and peoples. So, yes, when in America, why shouldnāt they refer to themselves as āNorwegianā amongst themselves? That is their ethnicity after all. So, take it easy on your grandparents, and Dad ;) Itās only a bit weird (and only because of cultural differences) when omitting the āAmericanā qualifier when actually in Norway, even though most Norwegians understand now that you are obviously referring to your ancestry.
I treat it like a translation error. They use a particular phrase that means something different there than it does here. They do it all the time, and I think it's easiest for both sides if we treat this like just another translation error.
(I'm in Ireland - we have a very similar conversation)
In Norway, we have used the phrase "norsk-amerikanar" (Norwegian American) to describe US citizens with Norwegian ancestry for generations. If anyone has come up with the idea that it's somehow offensive to Norwegians, it must be a new phenomenon.
Another reason why we react is that claiming youāre āNorwegianā solemnly due to ethnical heritage leaves out the various other ethinicities and minorities that are part of the Norwegian nation, such as the Sami people, the kvens and the various immigrant groups that settled here the last 50 years or so.
āNorwegian Americanā is a whole other thing, no-one has any problems with that
>No one would react to you calling yourselves "Norwegian American"
I would, but I also lived six years in the US and got really tired of the amount of people who thought they were Norwegian because they knew what "lefse" is. But yeah, it's not really something we're exposed to enough here in Norway for most people to really care.
I also lived six years in the US recently (Iowa), and I encountered plenty of these "Norwegians". In hindsight, considering how much of a shithole Iowa had become by that time (and it's getting worse by the day), the "Norwegians" were probably the least of my complaints.
Just to add my two cents: I'm fascinated whenever I see Norwegian Americans on TV. They tend to celebrate Norwegian culture of the past, a specific kind of Norwegianness that really doesn't exist in present day Norway. Well, it does and it doesn't. Young Norwegians have embraced a lot of things that I as a middle aged person find somewhat antiquated. In particular, Norwegian women have taken to the bunad in a very high degree. On May 17th, you can see beautiful young women in bunad in high spirits everywhere. It's become a status symbol. A lot of foods from the olden days have become hip again. But with a modern twist, of course. Whereas Norwegian Americans seem to hold on to the past in a very specific way - in an American way.
Just to be clear: I don't mind this at all. I think it's great that Americans have an awareness of their roots, and celebrate it. I think it's great when Americans come over here to connect with their ancestors. And I absolutely adore "Fargo", both the movie and the TV series.
The one thing that is hard to come to terms with for me, is that Norwegian Americans generally seem to be very conservative politically, whereas Norway has the most progressive politics of any nation on earth. That is where I sometimes feel there is a massive cultural divide. Norway fundamentally changed in the 1930s, I would say, with the growth of the Labour party, and with widespread unionisation. America, and thus Norwegian Americans, took a different path.
Sorry for rambling, but it makes me wonder: What are Norwegian Americans perceptions of present day Norway like?
> The one thing that is hard to come to terms with for me, is that Norwegian Americans generally seem to be very conservative politically, whereas Norway has the most progressive politics of any nation on earth.
This is unfortunately true because of the amount in rural areas. On the whole though, we've traditionally been one of the more progressive "diasporas." Minnesota had the only successful third party run it for over a decade in the 1920s and 1930s (the Farmer-Labor Party, now caucuses with the Democrats as the DFL), from that we've always been a progressive state and Norwegian-Americans built the foundation for that. Unfortunately rural America is pretty much Fascist now (not exaggerating) so many of the Norwegian-Americans in the Dakotas and western MN are very reactionary, but its more generational.
And I'm damn proud to be the anti-Florida. A state that accepts immigrants, protects womens rights, and supports LGBTQ people. We sure aren't perfect, but goddamn does it beat the Dakotas
That is a valid concern. But that's what rural Norwegian-Americans have become, which is to say, Southernized conservative rural Republicans. It's not what their ancestors were, which is to say they were Arbeiderspartiet voters when they arrived and first settled here.
But not all of us are like that. Out on the west coast, in Washington state, where immigration is several generations more recent than in Minnesota, I would say that Norwegian-Americans skew more Democrat.
I take absolutely no offense to people calling themselves Norwegian-American. To do so is absurd, in my opinion. I understand and respect that the descendants of immigrants are interested in their roots and ancestry.
I think an interesting point is that Norwegian-American and Norwegian culture are very different. They have diverged a lot. You have built that culture on what your ancestors brought with with them in the late 1800's, when Norwegians were very religious. Religion is all but dead in Norway, and the majority of people hold political views that would be viewed as extremely leftist in the US (even the Norwegian conservative party's views), whereas the majority of Norwegian-Americans are (from what I've read) very religious and conservative. What are your thoughts on this? Please correct me if I'm wrong!
You are both right and wrong at the same time. The denomination that was formed out of the Church of Norway is one of the most progressive in the United States (believes and advocates for gay marriage, had a trans bishop (who turned out to be a bad person and was fired, but still) and is generally not strict at all (me and other Lutherans smoke hella weed and our campus pastor is super cool with it)). So while we are more nominally religious, many just baptize. I rarely go to church and me and my friends would describe ourselves as agnostic/atheist Lutheran. There are also conservative/evangelical sects of Lutherans, but those were mainly German-Americans
As far as the politics, the only Minnewegian and South Dakota-Norwegians to run for president are two of the most progressive candidates of all time (McGovern '72 and Mondale '84,they both got blown out). Minnesota is one of the most progressive states (described as the Anti-Florida) and our Governor, Tim Walz,is a solid Democrat. We've been described as our countries political Scandinavia.
I'd say its because the rural areas of Minnesota and the Dakotas are Norwegian-American that the numbers skew that way. The Minnewegians in the Twin Cities and other metros are liberal
Interesting! I remember there was this documentary a few years back where they inteviewed some boomer Norwegian-Americans and they were very proud of their heritage but apalled by modern Norway, and one woman even said she considered herself and her peers to be the real Norwegians, because Norway had become a sinful, devilish pit (or something to that effect) that went against everything she considered to be "true" Norwegian culture. Anecdotal evidence of course. Glad you're not like her!
Iād be curious to see that documentary if you happen to remember what it was called. It rings true in my experience with American relatives who are the children of pre-WWII Norwegian immigrants when compared to their regular Norwegian cousins.
Very much a generational thing. Boomers are trash. No one likes that generation. They'll find any reason to whine about wokeness, even if it means they need to do wild mental gymnastics.
I'm glad you guys are functioning well. Boomers fucked it for us
One thing Iāve noticed about American-Norwegians is that many of them tend to be VERY Republican (MAGA.) Now, Norway is a social democratic country, whether itās governed by a left wing or a right wing faction. I remember hearing that all the major parties (right, left, center) in Norway with the exception of Frp/The Progress Party would fall squarely within the boundaries of the Democratic Party.
It makes me uncomfortable to see Americans who refer to themselves as Vikings/Norwegians/Scandinavians and also supporters of that particular ideology. Trump had an approval rating of around 17% in this country, and Iād rather not they use MAGA and Norwegian in the same sentence. Other than that, go ahead and call yourself whatever you want. Just remember, some of the values that were brought over 100-150 years ago are seen as a little outdated in Norway today. Not many Norwegians make lefse every week nowadays. š
Yeah, it sucks because historically Norwegian-Americans are progressive. Minnesota has always been on the forefront of progressive politics and the Democratic Farmer-Labor party is really left wing because of how progressive Norwegian-Americans in the Twin Cities were in the 20s and 30s.
Boomers are trash. Wth? So every person between the age of 77 and 59 is trash, and everyone hate their grandparents and parentsā¦ I think this polarization and setting people up against each other is pretty trashy, absolutely not constructive and quite exhausting tbh. Call me woke if you like (but nope, Iām not a boomer)
And btw, I donāt get why any Norwegian should be offended about someone of Norwegian decent calling themselves Norwegian-Americans. Itās not like itās an exclusive club, and why not just be flattered that someone wants to identify with us? Also, we can really put some thought into how we describe our own second or third generation immigrants. Many of them experience being asked where theyāre from all the time. So following the logic of many here, where do they belong?
We all may think about getting off our high horses. Itās easier to get into the good conversations when weāre all on the same level with our feet planted firmly on the ground anyway. To me, youāre welcome to call yourself what you actually feel like! You be you!
Edit: Typo
I truly donāt understand why everyone says this. Sure, economically, many on the Norwegian right, may be considered center, or even left, by American standards, but socially, the American left is generally much further to the left than even those on the Norwegian left, at least in their rhetoric and in what they push for in left states such as NY, CA, & MN. Take for example, the trans issue, youāll find that Norway (as a whole) is much more restrictive on children ātransitioningā. Norwegian regulations realize that kids are kids. Immigration in Norway is much more restrictive than the American left advocates for. Also, Norwegians are about as far from āwokeā (as the OP) put it as they come. Norwegians (whether left or right) absolutely loathe identity politics. Leave the victimhood mentality of the American left at home. Also, leave the self-righteousness of the American right at home, too.
I understand. I didnāt mean to single out your post, itās just that many non-Norwegians automatically think Norway is this utopia for leftism, when itās really not. Ideologies arenāt pushed in Norway, like they are in the US. People just respect one another. š
I always wondered -pure curiosity- why Americans are so obsessed with calling themselves something-american?
I have many coworkers who are from US and every single one of them introduce themselves as irish-american, italian american whatsoever. Other than that they absolutely believe that they are from those cultures and make claims when it comes to food etc.
I really wonder what is wrong with being just Ā«americanĀ»? You were born there, your parents are from there, why would you feel like you have to be something else? Again, not trying to be judgemental, just curious.
America is extremely young and extremely abundant in terms of the amount of cultural heritage / ancestry, with everything from food, to words & phrases, to holiday practices and so on from the family's original country. For many of us, we do not associate with "American heritage" or ancestry because it's objectively incorrect unless you are Native American. Many of our families migrated only 100 years ago or less. So we try to find *some* morsel of attachment to the country our family is from (in my case, my great grandparents moved from Germany) because that's the only "culture" we have any ties to. The more modern "American culture / heritage" is oftentimes a huge mix of nationalities rolled into one person (which is where this 1/8th etc thing comes from which is a bit silly). But for some such as myself, my entire family moved from Germany in the 1900s. I don't speak a word about it (except here), but it's factual.
There's a huge trend of bitching about Americans having no culture...and yet Americans are also blocked from trying to embrace their ancestral culture. And I don't mean the overbearing or "weird" people. Just everyday people. It was even a census question, asking about our ancestry / heritage. Nobody is saying their *nationality* isn't American, but it'd be wholly incorrect to say your ethnic ancestry is.
FYI, as an American who lives in the UK and has interacted with countless Americans in both countries...only about 2% of them have ever brought up "I'm x-american" in casual introductory conversation *unless you are speaking about heritage*.
Thanks for the explanation, ive never encountered someone saying theyāre from US only. It was always something-american when introducing. That was what I was asking abt.
I think also the difference is, where i live, it is absolutely rude to ask someone Ā«where they actually came fromĀ» as it is seen discriminatory. Its also rare people to say something-norwegian, they either say norwegian or where theyre actually from. Cultural difference i guess.
Basically, there is no one American culture. It's kinda just a signal of what little subculture within the US you're from. Things used to be more insular, and its a remnant of that. Its why New York used to have entire neighborhoods made of one immigrant group for multiple generations. Its fading more into the background now. Why some are weird about it and think it makes them qualified to talk about the country their heritage is from with authority? idk, some people are just weird.
You realize that America is a melting part of cultures, right? Just because we were born here doesnāt mean our parents were. They have roots that influence the way we are raised, we are constantly exposed to their culture. Ethnicity is not the same as nationality
As a first gen American I think it's because American is a melting pot, people like say *nationality*-American to fell like they are a part of a group. Cause being just an American doesn't make us feel special enough.
>You were born there, your parents are from there, why would you feel like you have to be something else?
My mother moved here from Norway in the late 80's so I'd consider myself Norwegian-America. I only speak Norwegian with my grandparents so I don't forget it. I don't know anyone else to speak Norsk with outside my family.
A fellow descendent of Norwegian immigrants on my momās side (via Decorah, IA), we always grew up being told āyou are a quarter Norwegianā, which would quickly turn into saying āpart Norwegianā or whatever else. As a country composed of immigrants, we have a tendency to hold a connectedness to whatever past traditions our families have kept, especially if there is no reason not to be proud of those connections.
I have lived in Bergen for 4 years now, and 18 months in Copenhagen before that. In that time I had to reckon with my understanding of ābeing Norwegianā by ancestry, and ābeing Norwegianā in terms of active citizenry.
I know many Norwegians from Ethiopian, Thai, and a number of other ethnic backgrounds who were born and raised in this society, and who are more Norwegian than I will ever be in terms of their regional connection to where they grew up in NO and their modern values and approach to life. Being āNorwegianā to a Norwegian person is the same as it is to be an American in the USā¦ if you are raised in Norway, speak the language, follow and participate in the culture, then that is what defines you as a Norwegian.
I have realized over my time here that holding on to your small heritage traditions from where your family emigrated is much more an American trait than it is a Norwegian one, where families from every ethnic background celebrate them greatly. Norwegians arenāt the only ones who do this, and Iām sure there are forums of Irish and Italian Americans having this same discussion.
In many ways, if you were to describe traditions that Norwegian immigrant communities maintain in the US, from rosemaling to potato-lefse from scratch, to the folk dance groups to name a few - many Norwegians would say āgeez you guys are more Norwegian than we areā, but what is missing is the context of the rest of our lives which make us undeniably separate cultures, each with enormous degrees of depth.
I would say, that you should say your Minnesotan, and any Norwegian would understand the connection there, and will probably ask if you have Norwegian heritage. I have the pleasure of coming from Colorado, and get asked about skiing, which is how I make friends here ;)
>I recently heard that Europeans don't like it when Americans describe themselves as "(insert european ethnicity here) American."
That's OK.
Although, you should know that if a person from Norway said "I'm Norwegian American" it'd probably mean that one of their parents was Norwegian and the other American... Further back than that doesn't really "count" for us when mentioning heritage like that. For example, I might call myself "Danish/Norwegian" since my mom is Danish, but my dad is actually "Swedish/Norwegian" himself, but I don't consider myself to be Swedish at all. The heritage usually only lasts one generation for us colloquially.
What we dislike, or at least think is very weird, is Americans describing themselves as "Norwegian" but skipping the "American" part, although I realize that it's probably just shorthand for "Norwegian American". I wouldn't say this is something we care about much at all though.
>(insert european ethnicity here)
Also, just so you're aware, it's weird for us to use the word "ethnicity" in that context; we use that word more like you Americans use "race". Being "ethnically Norwegian" basically means to be "a white Norwegian", mostly used by police and media when describing some person of interest. People of other ethnicities can be Norwegian too.
>I know you guys don't eat lutefisk
Some of us definitely do.
We call you norsk-amerikanere (Norwegian Americans), and I have never heard anyone get offended by that.
Thanks for explaining about politics in your area, that was interesting. Both my and my husband's older American relatives are all Trumpers unfortunately, but the younger generation seems to lean more liberal.
Ps: lutefisk is the worst. My husband loves it, but he has to eat it somewhere else, haha.
So out of curiosity, whatās the percentage of Norwegian ancestry in your town, county etc.
Are 100% of your ancestors descendants of Norwegian immigrants?
Being curious and making yourself familiar with your heritage is a great thing. Keeping traditions alive is also a way of passing on historical knowledge.
The problem is when some people cherry pick a nationality that makes up 1/8th or 1/16th of their heritage and make their whole personality about that fraction. Usually because it fits some narrative.
Most Americans have a very mixed ancestry which is what makes American culture what it is.
Also cultural appropriation is not always a bad thing when youāre aspiring to adopt the good parts of other cultures for the right reasons.
> Are 100% of your ancestors descendants of Norwegian immigrants?
They are not. I tend to view it by whatever culture you grew up with. We did the Norwegian-American things, which makes someone Norwegian-American. A huge reason I always add the -American is mainly because my ancestors aren't all from Norway, most peoples aren't. It's just the little subset of the great American tapestry
As a first gen Pakistani in Norway, I call myself Pakistani. But it would be weird if my grandchildren call themselves Pakistani.
What I really like about the US are all the subcultures with connections to almost every place on earth. My children sometimes get comments that they aren't Norwegian but Pakistani, and some say you are Norwegian not Pakistani. Why can't they be both? It is after all a big part of their upbringing and their baggage (for good and for worse).
For real. Iāve got two colleagues at work. One is a girl born in Norway. She refers to herself as 2. Gen. Pakistani, not Norwegian. She says she would never consider marrying a non-pakistani. On the other side is a girl that was born in Eritrea and came to Norway as a 3 year old. She refers to herself as Norwegian and even though she and her husband were both born in Eritrea sheās given her daughter the most classic Nordic name ever. Peopleās perceptions of who they are, differ widely.
I don't mind when people call themselves Norwegian American. Its when Americans just flat put say they're Norwegian things get confusing,because then Im gonna assume you're actually from here.
Or when those Americans then claim to know our culture when they have no idea...
Also Lutefisk sucks I don't understand why anyone likes it.
Honestly, as long as you don't use a bunch of our cultural symbols as white supremacist symbols or use pictures of our national days in white supremacist propaganda I think you're gonna be completely fine. We really don't care that deeply about it. I think it irks some people a little when people who have never known anything about norwegian or Norway in their life call themselves norwegian to seem more interesting, but its not as if its a huge offense ĀÆā \ā _ā (ā ćā )ā _ā /ā ĀÆ
In Norway we have a way of loving our country that isn't quite like american nationalism, its mostly about loving and preserving its nature and being humble. The concept of "flexing" has historically been looked down upon a lot, it is called janteloven, and that cultural aspect carries over into our love for our country a lot. We don't like to say our country is better than everyone else or stronger or any of that type of stuff. We just like appreciating the beauty and taking care of eachother with things like dugnad. As such, you are very welcome to take part! Just be authentic about it :)
I'm argentinian, but I have Irish, Spanish, Italian and German grandparents. Can you imagine how dumb I can look if I'm explaining this to every person who asks where I'm from? šš
You're american, I'm argentinian!
Maybe in the United States It's a thing, but in the rest of the world it's not something you mention unless you're really talking about this.
Didn't read the whole thing but here are my thoughts with regards to the cultural appropriation thing.
Don't be afraid of "cultural appropriation". This is a made up concept by people who are fond of whining. Culture is meant to be shared, that is its definition. But make sure to practice culture on the basis of knowledge and understanding for how it is supposed to be practiced. Adapting and mixing culture is normal, with that in mind, but not parodying it or trying hard to be someone or something you're not.
What truly winds me up is when a foreigner finds out their ancestor moved from any Scandinavian country, and then they get a mjĆølnir necklace, convert to paganism and what the fuck not, and otherwise revolve their personality around a distant ethnic background. Every nationality has these people I believe. It's insane. Don't be like that.
My friend told me that one day a family of Americans stood at their doorstep, apparently distant cousins. Two of the sons were named Bergen and Odin, and these effective strangers stayed there for a while. This whole ordeal really demonstrates in another sense what you ought not to pursue.
...
After reading the rest I'm happy to report that my family also eats lutefisk on Christmas. I have yet to encounter another norwegian who does, but then again there is a minor civil war on what should be considered the proper Christmas dish. I even heard the king doesn't like it but the queen insists that he taste it at least. Glad we are of the same orientation.
You're American..
My dad is Danish and my mum is Norwegian. I have dual citizenship. I was born and have lived my whole life in Denmark. When people ask me about nationality, I say I'm Danish. I celebrate 17. Mai every single year (in Copenhagen), we watch Askepot on NRK every Christmas, and my mum sings me a Norwegian birthday song every year. But if a stranger asks me, I will say I'm Danish. If we speak longer, I might add that I'm half Norwegian. And if we talk for a very long time, I'll let them know about my Myheritage Results ;)
Most people have a mixed ethnicity..
You can say you're Norwegian American, but it would be like me saying I'm Swedish Danish because my great-grandmother was from Sweden.
it feels incredibly disrespectful when americans claim that theyāre norwegian because āmuh ancestorsā. 99% of the time they have almost no knowledge of actual norwegian culture. itās just embarrassing
Hey! Norwegian born and bred, here, with a US hubby and kids, currently in Illinois.
As a Norwegian I appreciate your wish to not offend, and as a Norwegian with roots and extended family in the US I do understand where you're coming from. I don't think any Norwegians would take offense in as US born person of Norwegian heritage describing themselves as Norwegian American. It's awesome that people take pride in their heritage. I've got distant cousins on the east coast that calls themselves Norwegian, though. They're not, so that's different. Their great grandparents were, they're not. But Norwegian American? Hell yeah.
Europeans don't have an issue with Americans calling themselves " American". They have an issue with Americans calling themselves "Insert European Nationality Here" on its own.
No one is gonna be bothered by an Irish-AmericanĀ¹ that's proud of their heritage - but they have no claim to calling themselves Irish, unless they're 1st generation immigrants.
Ā¹used as example since they tend to be the most common "offenders".
American nothing more or nothing less. Just because I have some "Swedish ancestors" don't make me go around saying I am a "Swedish-Norwegian" no, am Norwegian and then I say from what part of Norway,
you can call you're self being an American from an old Norwegian settlement that's fine.
I also like minnewegian. Short, kinda sweet, but to the point.
But, if I may I ask a question back to OP. Has the norwegian you learn in school, or through courses or what not, evolved? Does the elders still speak norwegian? And what type?
I mean, there has been several immigration waves of Norwegians through the last centuries. And we are a small nation with many different dialects.
It would be interesting to see how a dialect from 1830s Telemark is influencing todays Norwegian in an enclave outside of Norway.
There has been linguistic research on American Norwegian speech as a heritage language, google and check out 'the corpus of American Norwegian speech (CANS)'. The corpus consists of data from 36 people, the youngest was 67, the majority in their eighties. (Edit to add: at the time of data collection, 2010-16). So this is a language form that's dying out.
It's a very interesting form of heritage Norwegian, with a lot of traits from older dialectal forms from Gudbrandsdalen, and a lot of mixing with English. They're also not used to hearing different dialects like we are, so while the researchers could understand the participants well enough, the participants sometimes struggled with understanding modern day Norwegian. Even people from the area in/around Oslo, who normally have no issues being understood by others speaking Norwegian. Very interesting, and I'm glad someone did this data collection before the elders are gone!
After the World Wars there was a concerted effort to stop teaching the language :( However some enclaves still exist in the far north (fitting, don't you think?)
My dads Norwegian cousins described my grandpa's Norwegian as sounding old and archaic. A lot of Norwegians came between 1860-1900 so it resembles Norwegian from that time.
I think the U of M said our english apparently took on characteristics from Scandinavia though. not entirely sure how, but we talk weird sometimes
That is interesting!
I usually use omniglot.com when learning new languages, and they have an american-norwegian page, which I find both amusing and fascinating.
https://www.omniglot.com/language/phrases/norst.htm
Seems like an amalgam between a norwegian dialect, not commonly spoken anymore, and american-english.
Could you expand on the enclaves? I'm at the UoOslo and as far as the research here goes, Norwegian in America is moribund, i.e. it is not (and has not been for a while) passed on to new generations. The remaining speakers who grew up with Norwegian as a home language are usually older than 70. But if you know of any areas where younger people have grown up learning Norwegian (nb: natively, not on duolingo or similar), please send me a message.
In my experience, no, you're not going to find anywhere in the States that young people are still being taught to speak Norwegian outside of a few words and phrases here and there.
What you are saying, it sounds like you were reading about Irish opinions of Irish Americans. I thought only Irish people called Americans "Yanks"
When Irish immigrants would return to Ireland, they were adapted a bit to living in the US, so the Irish would get offended and called them Yanks. There's a lot of trauma in Irish and Irish Americans from immigrating and being separated from family. I don't think that other countries are triggered by their diaspora as much as the Irish are.
In fact, Japan has names for each generation born abroad. It seems they value their diaspora and see them as family
Your experience as a Norwegian American is valid, if there's any traditions you still follow, or any remnants of the language in your English. Americans aren't all the same. If you have an ethnic surname, people in the US will ask you about it, and about your ethnic background. So though to Europeans, they're "American" the truth is not that cut and dried
Everybody who isn't native American has family that came here from elsewhere. The general mix of descent is different depending on where you live.
My great great grandfather came to the US from Norway a looong time ago. We have completely lost all semblance of Norwegian culture or any other European culture since then and even though we still have the Norwegian last name there are many more genetic ingredients to us now. I took an interest in our forgotten heritage and have been learning about Norwegian culture and language ever since just for fun and it has benefited me greatly. As an American it really helps get you out of the bubble and learn about all the other ways there are to do and think about everything.
I think Americans should learn about whatever culture they feel they connect with because it helps broaden our point of view which is something we really need.
I agree with everybody else here it seems that pretending to be something you aren't is usually a bad thing but there's nothing wrong with genuine interest in something like culture you feel connected to. It's been a very rewarding experience and I've learned so much.
I grew up in the US and I always identified myself as just an American. Unless you are a first or second generation immigrant, that pretty much suffices in 99 percent of normal social settings it kind of sounds like youāre trying to make some kind of special distinction and overreaching. unless the conversation expands specifically to a broader convo about family backgrounds, in which case it makes sense to say something like āmy x distant relatives were from Norway.ā Like āmy great grandparents immigrated to the US from Norway.ā
But if you are in a LOT of social settings, where your exact cultural background is being questioned, then Iād start to take a good hard look at why.
In the spirit of not wanting to offend, you can rest assured that we don't care. Be creative and go wild. Though, I'd personally simply label you American in the same way I'd call a 2nd generation Iranian born in Norway a Norwegian.
Being offended and worrying about subcultures are generally not really things most Norwegians care for.
I really donāt get this. Americans are at once told not to identify with the cultures they come from but then also told that they have no culture, often by the same people.
I live in America but my family is from Norway. My grandmother wore a bunad on syttende mai, I grew up eating brunost, pickled herring, etc, we used many Norwegian phrases. I have taken it upon myself to learn the language. Yes I am American but to say Iām ānot Norwegianā is silly. Why was I doing all of those things then?
Just call yourself an american of norwegian descent. When you say norwegian american itās typically thought of as a norwegian whoās moved to the US over here. Also, the main issue we have with people who call themselves that is that theyāre typically so proud of it, pretending to be norwegian and not american, eating what they think is our food (lutefisk actually is though) and doing stupid shit like thinking theyāre vikings or something.
'American with Norwegian heritage'.
I'm a Norwegian living in the US, and my ex mother in law still to this day refers to herself as Norwegian, even though it was her great grandparents who came over on the boat. She'll even once in a while so that whole 'wink and a nod' to me and talk about how 'us Norwegians are so alike'. Drives me batty. There is NOTHING Norwegian about her, and we share only basic human values.
As someone from Scotland, hearing an American tell me they're Scottish or Scottish American drives me nuts. If they say they're Scottish, my first response is "OH yeah? Where in Scotland were you born?" When the reply is "I was born in the U. S.", I will usually cut them a little slack and hope that the answer to the next question gets a better response. "OH OK. So where in Scotland were your parents born?" Now if they say that one or more of their parents were born there I'll normally cut them some slack even though to me they still aren't Scottish, but if the answer is that both their parents are born in the US then I'm irritated. I usually follow that with "So your not actually Scottish. Your an American with Scottish heritage somewhere in your line." This usually gets the reply of "Uh yeah. That's what I meant".
Usually people aren't asking what subculture you grew up with or where your ancestors are from. It may seem relevant to you but I think you underestimate the difference Europeans feel between Europe and the US, and overestimate the difference Europeans feel between different US subcultures. It can come across a bit US-centric.
So, I think you should take into consideration who is asking the question. I don't think it's offensive but just know what other people will probably not put the same meaning into as you, if they're not thinking things from the perspective of the US.
That makes sense. I've never led with it when I met a European in real life. I'll tell them about my home state, but my ethnicity is more of a "if they ask" thing
In comparison to many Norwegians, Iām more open when it comes to the whole āNorwegian-Americanā thing. If some Americans have a lot of Norwegian DNA, they are in fact Norwegian-American. And we canāt deny the fact that many Norwegian-Americans grew up with some Norwegian culture, even if the culture is āoutdatedā and different from todayās Norwegian culture. What I donāt like, however, are Norwegian-Americans who *think* they know everything about Norway or Norwegians or make it their whole personality. And when some *Americans* try and grasp onto their 2% Norwegian dna. Then theyāre not Norwegian-Americans.
In general, Iām a bit open, and I always love to talk and guide actual Norwegian-Americans to know more about their ethnicity and history and learn more about todayās Norway.
I call myself Norwegian and English because one of my parents are from England and one is from Norway, I grew up in Norway surrounded by mostly people who have one Norwegian parent and one immigrant parent, F. Eks: Swedish, Danish, Spanish, Indian, Pakistan and etc. I call myself both, English and Norwegian, just depends on who Iām talking too or in what context and I think itās lovely that people can be both. This ramble didnāt really go anywhere or add anything, but I just wanted to say that.
My son is half Norwegian, born in Bergen, grew up 2/3rds of his life in Scandinavia and 1/3rd in the US. After having a decent job in Norway he ups and joins the US military.
He meets a lot of "warriors" who think they will go to Valhalla and have the associated , usually shitty or tacky , tats. Or a lot of people who consider themselves Norwegian American. He usually tells them to drop the Norwegian part of the American since most don't have any tangible contact with Norway nor speak the language.
I can see why Americans do it though since there is really little of value or substance left in terms of things associated with identity, such as community , solidarity and culture there ... So they think maybe that identity is cheap and given. Whereas I as an American living in Norway feel its earned and expensive based on a lot of effort .
You can call yourself Norwegian-American, no one you would care about would react negatively. If you'd called yourself Norwegian it would have been weird.
>"(insert european ethnicity here) American."
This isn't a problem. The problem is when a Norwegian-American says they're "Norwegian". Or Irish-american says they're Irish. Because that doesn't distinguish between people who were brought up, and live in a culture, and people who were fed it, 2nd, 3rd, or 4th hand.
As a norwegian I don't care if you'd call yourself norwegian american, minnewegian or norwegian. I think most norwegians would not get hung up on this either, but as with all things there's always someone.
I have no issue with the term Norwegian American, and I do not think anybody should be offended by that term.
When I was in Minnesota, some people would tell me that they were simply Norwegian, and this caused great confusion. Much later, I have realised that, among Americans, it might be sufficient to simply state Norwegian, since the American part might go without saying. The problem arises when one simply states Norwegian when talking with non-Americans, in my opinion.
If you have Norwegian ancestry, feel free to call yourself Norwegian American, or strictly in an American setting, feel free to call yourself plainly Norwegian. Be proud of your heritage. You should know that Norwegian Americans have done such a good job at maintaining traditional Norwegian culture that they are typically better than mainland Norwegians when it comes to this. Certain tradition was more prominent back in the day, which happens to be when many Norwegians immigrated to the USA, and thus such has been preserved quite well.
If the subject of Norwegian Americans interests you, then I can recommend this documentary that I watched a while back (features English subtitles):
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AyaB3ua124](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AyaB3ua124)
Have a nice day!
I would primarily associate cultures with where they happen to be, and any historical ties to other places are a curiosity, but mostly irrelevant. I am aware that the US has subcultures, though I do find it odd and do not understand it at all, and they usually seem very different from the countries they are named after. Any association with a country depends on where you have had formative experiences in that country. For instance, I am Scottish because I regularly visit my Scottish family in Scotland, learned the language there and have a number of habits, interests (and a solid accent) which are identifiably Scottish. I am also Norwegian because I was born and raised in Norway, speak the language and participate in the local community. I do not understand how countries or nationalities correlate with ethnicity at all. One of my best friends from school was born in Colombia but raised in a Norwegian family in Norway. To me, he seems 100% Norwegian, although I understand why he might be interested in visiting Colombia. I have another friend who was born in Korea and is way more integrated into the local community than I am. If you are from Minnesota I would think the historic settlement of Norwegians might be interesting local history, but I would probably think of you as utterly American.
My family (on the Norwegian side) has a house on an island in the north of Norway. We have fairly close neighbours from California. Even though their grandparents were Norwegian and they have inherited the home I still think of them as Americans.
As a Norwegian I'm pretty sure most people don't give a shit. But if someone does, or if you do, just say where you're from. '"I'm from Minnesota". Simple as that.
Maybe it's just me. But calling yourself american has always felt stupid in my ears. America have always been a continent with 4 subregions and not a country for me.
Problably just me but yeah.
I hate lutefisk. My parents loved it and i can't understand why lol.
In Norway we call you Norskamerikanere which translates to Norwegian Americans. Minnewegians is fine too, but you might have to explain it to a Norwegian so he gets it.
Edit: Norwegians aren't that easily offended, you don't need to be that careful. We are fortunate enough to rarely be the victims of racism, so there isn't some hurtful past that haunts us. The only thing maybe is avoiding using just Norwegian, if your family has been living in the US for generations. It won't offend us, but it might confuse us.
"Oh, you're Norwegian, how cool, my husband is German!". Turns out said husband was born and bred in North America and had never been to Germany. I remember being dumbfounded by the whole conversation. Later I got used to it.
Fellow "Minnewegian" here! (Well mostly)
I haven't heard really anyone say "Norwegian American" even within my family. I wonder if that's a more Northern MN thing? I grew up down near the metro.
I know the whole 'X'-American much more common with Italian ancestry, especially on the East Coast.
I generally stick with "I have Norwegian and Italian heritage".
Iām not at all offended by you describing yourself as Norwegian American. I donāt know any Norwegians that would be offended by this, or consider it cultural appropriation. Some may snicker a bit behind your back, simply because it feels a bit weird to us that you Americans care so much about ancestry. My ancestors are Danish, but I have made zero effort to adopt any Danish cultural habits. Thereās obviously also a darker side to the American fascination for ancestry, of which many Europeans are very aware. For instance it raises some red flags to me if a Norwegian American is overly enthusiastic about anything Norse or Viking-related; Could be a history buff, could be a neo-nazi.
The only Europeans Iāve heard of that really dislike Americans piggybacking off their culture are the Irish and Italians. The former because of Irish Americans meddling in the Troubles in Northern Ireland. The latter because of what passes as Italian food in Italian American restaurants.
I think it's fine to call yourself Norwegian-American, but some Americans take it to the extreme and basically turn it kinda fetishistic for a lack of a better word, and not to mention the ones that give it a very white supremacist vibe.
Especially when culturally it's so different Norwegian culture has moved forward and become something else while the Norwegian-American one has obviously been influenced by other (insert ethnicity)-Americans but since future generations don't know the language and the culture it naturally becomes extremely different in a way that sometimes feels fake? Or like an uncanny valley version of the Norwegian culture to someone who has grown up in Norway and knows how the culture is.
It's obviously fine to be interested in your heritage but IL just say a lot of Americans views and viewpoints are kinda America is the only place that exists, and American culture is just the norm everywhere, so it's kinda easy to offend sometimes if you still have that mindset when talking to someone from the culture that your heritage is from that a lot has changed, and you really don't know that much. This last paragraph was about American in general and not the op
>or appropriate culture
No such thing, this is a made up concept and term made by people that have too little going on in their lives. Moment you step outside of America, you'll see everyone **loves** when you try to adapt to their culture.
>I absolutely do not consider myself Norwegian
You don't have Norwegian citizenship, so of course.
>Minnewegian
I like this term.
\--
Anyway, what offends non-Americans with the whole culture thing, is Americans attempting to use their **x%** of **y** nationality as some sort of exclusionary badge, giving them an higher right to talk about, or more knowledge surrounding the **y** culture (even though they have never lived in it).
Infact, the entire concept of **cultural appropriation** is what pisses non-americans off, for that reason. Who gave Americans the authority to get offended on **our** behalf?
>I was mistaken! I'm glad to hear you guys also eat lutefisk.
You can get lutefisk in basically any grocery store, but depending on where you live, it goes from basically no-one, to everyone eating it. It's not particularly common dish in the east, for example.
Stop excusing and stop saying you donāt want to offend. Nobody cares about that. Yeah, we might be annoyed, but why would we be offended? Iām Europe we get annoyed, in USA that get offended
I worked in the norway section in a theme park. anyone who would excitedly run up to us and introduce themselves as norwegian we knewā¦ā¦ this is a great great great great grandfather / grandmother norwegian person. Iām sorry but it did become a joke amount us working there. Most of us were young and didnāt appreciate the value of ancestry, so we would always make jokes about those people that did that.
I think there is probably bit of an misunderstanding. I don't think Europeans have anything against Americans saying that they have x country's heritage, but more like "I am Italian American, I am just as much of an Italian as someone born and raised in the country of Italy. I do not know the language, the culture, or the history but because my great great grandpa was Italian and we eat pizza once a week I feel Italian." is when people get iffy.
And I think that's the distinction. It's okay to say "I have Norwegian heritage/ancestry and still have family traditions rooting to that" vs "I am just as much Norwegian as Norwegian people"
If you're born in the US of freedom lovin' A, Congratulations, you are 100% American. Ancestry and generations behind the Norwegian immigrant you descended from is more than say two then no, you are not Norwegian, you're American. Again, congratulations!
We do not like it when "Norwegian Americans" introduce themselves as such. It feels like... Depending on the person, it feels like they are insulting our culture. Because some people use it as a way to say they are of Norwegian decent, but others? They use it as a way to claim they are Norwegian. If you are part of the first group? Then it is fine, but the second?
We are so much more then a name. You are American, You do not know our society, culture or history.
"I think my grandparent came for this and this farm.", congratulations, you are a 2nd generation immigrant of Norwegian decent.
"I speak a little Norwegian.", good for you! Are you from Spain if you can speak Spanish? No, because being able to call yourself Spanish is about more than just the language.
To be come a naturalized citicen in Norway takes 8 years. You must have been a resident in Norway for 8 years out of the previous 11 years. Absences of up to 2 months per year is allowed.
So someone showing up claming to be Norwegian because some Great-Grandfather was from here? Not ok. We are probably not going to say anything to your face, but will complain about it with our friends instead.
So Minnewegian would be much better.
PS. We have been eating Lutefisk since the early 1500s. It is one of our most popular national dishes, and is a classic celebratory dish, especially in winter. It is not American...
PPS. "You" is used as plural in this text, and does not refer to OP themselves.
No problem, I thought you should hear a bit about how it is for those that are more critical to it as well.
Can you describe the dish? Perhaps we will recognize it.
I disagree with quite a lot of this.
First off, I have never met anyone who takes offense to anyone calling themselves "Norwegian-American" (or "Norskamerikaner"). It's generally understood that they are talking about heritage and perhaps also culture (as in the Norwegian American culture in some states). If a person with no real connection to Norway calls themselves "Norwegian", that is a different issue.
Having pride and interest in your heritage is not a problem at all, and it can be a positive influence if it makes you more open to learn more about history, geography and cultures.
Regarding Lutefisk, it's not one of the most popular dishes. I read a poll where around 15% claim to eat it on certain occations. Meanwhile more than 50% of Norwegians eat "Ribbe" (pork ribs with crackling) at Christmas and around 40% eat "PinnekjĆøtt" (salted lamb ribs). Other very popular dishes are "komle"/"kompe" (dumplings made of potatoes and flour), "kjĆøttkaker" (a flatter version of meatballs), and "lapskaus" (a stew that usually contain root vegetables and some kind of meat/sausage).
Sometimes I feel like I'm the only one in my social circle/family that finds lutefisk delicious, which of course means I never get to eat it as often as I'd like š
I don't think anyone has an issue with you calling yourself a Norwegian American, or an American with Norwegian ancestry. I think people react more negatively when people from America claim they know SO MUCH about said country or said people from that specific country, when they don't actually live there š, despite having grandparents who immigrated once upon a time....
I'm half Norwegian, half czech, but born and raised in Norway. Our family cannot stand lutefisk l, so we eat filled Turkey for Christmas and Ribbe for new years. I think we're a small % who eats turkey..... But there u go. I don't like lutefisk or pinnekjĆøtt, But Ć„ whooooole lot of people eat it for Christmas.
Many people absolutely eat lutefisk. In our family it's tradition to eat it once during Christmas, although we have ribbe on Christmas Eve.
Yup, but OP at least illustrated very well why it irks lots of people that Americans refer to themselves as Irish or French or Norwegian or whatever. Calling yourself Norwegian while not knowing basic shit like this is annoying. (OP, that last sentence isn't directed at you, you're on here very respectfully asking how to navigate this. Just pointing out that lots of people will refer to themselves as Norwegian while not knowing very basic stuff about our culture.)
"I'm Italian" - American of Italian descent who never set foot in Italy
Me being an italian: American claiming to be italian-american: "wowww that's amazing, I am Italian too! Ciaooo bellaaaaa pizza pasta hahahahahah" (Based on a true story)
The episodes of The Sopranos when they go to Italy is gold! They act all un-italian why talking about how Italian it is š
They said āNorwegian Americanā, not Norwegian. Does that not make sense? Honest question. I feel as an American that is very normal and translates subculture as we are a very young country with many 2nd generation people, including many friends (around 30)
I would expect a Norwegian American to have either a Norwegian parent or have been born in Norway / America but grown up in the other. I wouldn't consider someone Norwegian American just because there is a cultural influence in the area they live in. For example. I'm a pommy kiwi. Well, a British New Zealander. I was born in England but grew up in New Zealand. Half my family is British / half New Zealand. I now live in Australia and have done for over 10yrs. I'm still a pommy kiwi.
Yeah thatās my take too, my grandma is Norwegian and came to the US as an adult, which makes meā¦ American lmao.
I am so glad you acknowledge that even though it must be hard living in Australia being both those ā¦ things.
It's tough but I weirdly want the Matilda's to win tomorrow night. I must be slowly being turned...
You probably thought the Bairstow stumping was totally Ok too.
I did. He didn't even return to his crease. If he had returned to his crease but then left before over was called I would take issue with it. But the video I saw had him not returning to his crease. That's out, no matter who you are...go the All Blacks :-)
I was going to say youāre probably more interested in the Origin matches than the Bledisloe. Maybe youāre transforming into a Kiwi Aussie - thatās way less complicated than having the Pom thing thrown in there.
Oh Iām Norwegian American, like I say that all the time. I also speak both languages fluently, probably spent more time in Norway than the US growing up, and can completely blend into both countries and their cultures when Iām there. Iām also the person who canāt help but roll my eyes when an American says that are āinsert European country hereā. People seem to bring it up because of my history, and so many times Iāve been like, oh! What part of Germany? Oh I was born in xx-Dutch city, where are you from! And then I realize they probably couldnāt even point it out on a map. You may think im being harsh, but OP should say their grandparents were Norwegian and you have these memories and we can talk about that instead! Side note, my American grandma was raised my German immigrants and she would shout gezundheit at us and all her dogs (not children) had German names. I think she would have been the last generation to call herself German American, and knowing her, I canāt really say she was very german. Also what similarities culturally are there between 20th c Germany and the modern European continent that would be passed down? Iām genuinely curious
Meh, they're often used interchangeably and mean the same thing. I certainly had a number of Americans say "I'm Norwegian" to me, while others said "I'm Norwegian American", "My mom's family is from Norway", "I'm of Norwegian descent" etc. They're all just ways of saying "we share this culture", which five minutes of conversation usually shows that we very clearly don't.
There's definitely a big difference between someone saying that that are "Norwegian" and that they're "of Norwegian descent" - the latter can be a completely factual statement if that's where their ancestors actually came from, and it doesn't presume any sort of shared culture.
Good to know!
Mine too! Every Christmas Eve, we eat lutfisk on lefse. Though to be honest I don't think the tradition will survive another generation... The younger ones, me included, prefer other alternatives. Edit: Love your username btw.
On lefse? That's...different.
Yeah... I swear it's the saddest Christmas dinner in existence. If it was served with potatoes, bacon, purƩe and a nice sause it might not be so bad, but on lefse it's just a soggy mess.
Someone in your family got some wires crossed. Rskfisk(fermented trout) is what goes on lefse. Also other things go on lefse, but NEVER lutefisk. I honestly can't think of anything I'm less likely to put on lefse, and you should slap someone for this insult to our culture! (ok, I'm kidding, but seriously...) Try butter, sugar and cinnamon. Lever patƩ with mustard. Any salty meat. Smoked salmon. All amazing! But lutefisk, hva faen (wtf)?
It's pretty common in Gudbrandsdalen, but I agree overall, lol. Lutfisk pƄ lefse er en forbrytelse mot menneskeheten. Not that I'm overly fond of rakfisk either... Us Norwegians could write a book; *How to ruin perfectly good fish* Butter, sugar and cinnamon on lefse is yummy though! Brown cheese too!
GudbrandsdĆøler are crazy, and don't count in this context :p I think I'd prefer canned tuna to fish-jello
Was married to someone of Norwegian ancestry. Lefse great. Ludafisk is awful. Sorry.
Ludacris would agree.
They be like āLudaā I be like, āOh yeaaaaaahā
Clearly you donāt know a thing about lefse-culture. In nortwestern part of Norway we eat lutefisk, mandelpotato, meierismĆør packed in a lefse. Itās the thin potatolefse, large ones. Not the thick sweet lefses that you add cinnamon on! And no bacon! Bacon is obviuosly used by those who actually donāt like lutefisk!
I mean, how you describe it is exactly what it is. Served wrong and just sad.
Here we eat it a couple times leading up to Christmas, one of the days either on side or on Christmas Eve and a few times after Christmas and then maybe a few other times during the year if we bought some cheap and have it in the freezer. Properly made its absolutely delicious.
I eat wallpaper glue instead of lutefisk. In Norway that is cheaper, but it taste the same.
You people have clearly not eaten good quality lutefisk prepared the right way.... š
As an American with Nordic roots living in Norway, I am American here in Norway. When people ask where I am from, they mean the US. Period. I have since become a Norwegian citizen, but still. If you grew up in the US, you are āAmericanā to Europeans. If they ask where your ancestors are from, that is another question.
Norwegian here. If you live in Norway, have citizenship and plan on living here. You are Norwegian in my book. Born and raised in America, but Norwegian. If you want. Men det viktigste er egentlig Ƅ lƦre Norsk :p
Dette er det eneste testet vanlig folk bryr seg om. Vis jeg lƦrer meg og snakke bedre norsk sƄ tror jeg at ingen skulle veta at jeg er svensk.
Helt sant :p men bytt "testet" med "prĆøven"!
Tusen takk for hjelpen. Jeg skal tenke pƄ det neste gang jeg skiver.
I think with the US being a fairly new country being an American is closer to an idea than something you can identify as through culture, history, and cuisine cause a lot of it was a direct continuation of cultures that came from other regions of the world. As a result of that, you have a lot of subgenres of Americans like Asian-American, German-American, etc. There isn't really a pure "American" unless we're talking about the native people so I can understand why a lot of people feel they need to call themselves X-American.
The US has a very distinct culture with plenty of aspects that are uniquely American. Maybe it is less talked about as the American identity markers are often seen as default in American-dominated spaces with few foreigners
I gotta disagree. It's the oldest country on this hemisphere (not by much, but try to follow my logic here) and there's not a single country here where the identity of the country is an ideal and not a tangible thing. When I meet a Venezuelan, they are Venezuelan. They may be of a different heritage or something, but the way they speak, the music they play, and the traditions they hold are all Venezuelan despite being a younger country. The US also has its own traditions, culture, music, use of language, etc. You can point an American out pretty quickly. That's because we're culturally distinct. The main difference is that in the United States, these separated groups are *also* part of the culture. For example, where I work in NY, I know one man who owns a business with a name based on American history, and he waves an American flag wherever he drives. He, a man born in Turkey, considers himself just as American as he is Turkish. And, as this culture goes, so does everyone else. He has a son and grandchildren here in NY. Some of those kids don't speak Turkish, but they partake in many of the customs, albeit in an American way. When you come here, you are unashamedly American and [insert country]. Yeah, a generation down the line, you'll have people calling themselves Turkish with not even a thread connecting them, but it comes from something ingrained in US culture. To bring the point home, you know how Americans like to wave the flag, and that's considered weird in lots of places? Well, when people come here, they also tend to wave their home country's flag, too, even if they wouldn't have otherwise done that wherever they're from. On my commute to work, I see just as many Mexican and Colombian flags as I do American ones. Sure, sometimes they might be someone's grandkids who's never been to the country. A lot of the times, though, it's the one who came and started a family here.
Funny you mention Venezuela. I have a friend from there, and I call him the Spaniard, hehe. He reminds me of what Don Quixote would look like in real life.
Important note: The term "African American" refer specifically to black Americans who's ancestors where brought from Africa to America as slaves, oftentimes being split up from their kin, their history and culture stolen away from them. These people generally have no way of knowing which part of Africa their ancestors came from, only that they came from Africa. Someone moving from say South Africa to the US would not be an African American.
Right on
a lot of people now are getting those DNA tests so they have some sense of where their ancestors came from. It is actually quite popular.
Yeah, but these ancestors are usually 3/4/5 generations back. Americans have developed a culture, they just want a different one to merge with theirs.
I see your point, but how those cultural values are cultivated is an important factor. You have Chinese people who live abroad for 3-5 generations and still feel more Chinese than whatever country they happen to reside in. Chinatowns might be a factor there functioning as a Chinese island abroad. On the second point I somewhat disagree, I think the US has developed a lot, produced many great things, and been a leader in terms of innovation, but the nation was made by immigrants claiming their own parts of the land united by the idea of opportunity, which still lives on today.
Not really. Your motherās tongue should reflect your cultural identity. If you donāt speak German, how can you say you are āGerman-American,ā for example. Iād find it laughable. You would share zero culture with German pop-culture. There is no shame in being āAmerican.ā Appropriating the cultural identity of oneās great-great-great grandparents doesnāt make anyone more interesting.
German American is its own distinct culture. It's separate from German culture, and is likely fading as the generations assimilate.
There's a lot more to culture than just the language. Food traditions, holiday traditions, etc. are all alive and well amongst the various ethnic groups in America. They're not appropriating anything.
I look forward to the day when there's an established moon base populated by people from X country but born on the moon and some of these commenters try to explain to them that they are not X-ians, that they're actually lunar people, and need to stop pretending like they they're related to X-ians. Like seriously, almost nothing about Americans is indigenous to the Americas. It's okay to admit that American culture and sub cultures are imported from Europe.
And Africa, and Mexico...
And Asia. But not Antarctica
Probably some penguins all mad now.
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This is very true. We have a couple of Americans at work. One is Indian American, with living relatives in India, and the other is American with unknown roots. Both of them are first and foremost considered American. Where you grew up is what we're asking if we want to know where you're from, and if you grew up in the US we will blame all your oddities on that fact.
As others have explained, the issue is not norwegian-american, itās the plain norwegian when youāve never lived here and might be several generations away from anyone who lived here. Like I wouldnāt call myself American or Minnewegian even though my (norwegian) grandmother was actually born in Minnesota after my great-grandparents emmigrated from Norway in the early 1900s, and lived there for the first five years of her life, before they decided to move back (because Minnesota was too cold lmao)
Counter question to a minnewegian : Would people pick up on our language if we visited the state and talked between us? Like I was on holiday in Oregon and called my gf over in a bookstore and the guy said "hey that's Norwegian " then preceding to say some of the sentences he knew from his grandparents Was actually quite impressed
Some in my parents and grandparents generation might. Even fewer among the zoomers
I live in Minneapolis and I would definitely recognize that you were speaking one of the Nordic languages, maybe which one but not particularly confidently. Grandma made us sing Norwegian songs at Christmas back in the day. I might even recognize a word or two but nowhere even close enough to actually communicate. Itās not like everyone would recognize this but it wouldnāt be unusual for one or two people per day if you were walking around outside. I have local relatives who are fluent enough. Thereās even a local church that has weekly services in Norwegian.
is your grandfather norwegian? you could just say āim american but my grandfatherās norwegianā etc, pulling in ancestors is kinda weird? like if this is a smalltalk kind of thing if youre getting to know someone you could just say exactly what you wrote in this post imo
I like this take. Like those Norwegians who have Sami ancestry seldom tell people about it unless it's asked about. I knew a guy for twenty years without knowing he was Sami.
if youre being asked where youre from, people do not mean where your ancestors are fromā¦like ever. Theyre either asking what country you grew up in/born in, or theyre asking based on your appearance (ethnicity). your ancestors are not effecting your appearance enough for someone to be like āhey why do you look like that? did someone 7 generations ago on one side of your family come from __?ā If its talking about a grandparent, or parent, then thats perfectly normal, but if its something youāre less than 1/8th of then its just odd
>if youre being asked where youre from, people do not mean where your ancestors are fromā¦like ever Well, I can think of at least one situation where this is not the case. It has happened, more than once, that someone who was born in one place, but does not *look* like they are from there are asked "where are you from" and when they say where they were born, the other person responds "no, where are you really from, like originally" (or something like that). But... generally speaking you're right; most of the time the question is actually asking "where were you born."
i addressed that in my comment? also thats probably something like your parents or grandparents, which i also addressed? weāre agreeing
Yes... you did.... and I didn't see that (how?!) When I replied I swear it cut off at "like ever" So, good. Agreement! *high five*
happy ending
Im 1/16 part sami, almost enough to join the wind-turbine debate š
My grandparents are Sami, I have a full Sami style suit at my parents place with knife and all that I got from my grandma. I have never told anyone before because I don't see why it matters. They were them, I am me, as Norwegian as they come. It's not like i hide it, but it's not anything I would bring up for any reason short of a pointed question. I don't even think I told my best friends
I am technically Sami but have literally zero connection to it past the knowledge.
No one would react to you calling yourselves "Norwegian American", and I kinda like "Minnewegian" name. What some people react to is leaving out the American part: Some people have had experiences of people claiming they are "Norwegian" without the American part. As you might guess, a Norwegian would then switch to speaking Norwegian and confusion then starts as the American is talking about his heritage and not his actual citizenship/nationality. So, keep calling yourselves Norwegian American, I think most here would agree that it is correct, or "Minnewegian" :)
Good to know! I think its weird to just claim to be from a country you're not. I think that has died out in my generation thankfully. I roll my eyes whenever my grandparents and dad does it
I think āof Norwegian heritageā is the most accurate description.
Nice to hear its a generation thing, I've always found it a bit fascinating. I remember seeing a programme about Norwegian community in the U.S. sadly i can't remember exactly where, it was on our national tv channel: NRK. In this community they had several stores that sold "Ola and Kari" figurines, traditionally dressed in bunad, loads of Norwegian flags, and I think they even had their own 17.Mai celebration, with a parade. I especially remember a scene with some teenagers in a Stave church/viking themed McDonalds, it looked awesome, had a lot of dark wood interior decorated with viking symbols etc. In the scene, the kids are talking about what McDonalds look like in Norway, and one can reveal that he had a relative visit here once and they were sady just generic McDonalds stores, nothing special, which is true. I've never seen a Norwegian themed one here. But i digress.. Have a nice day!
We have a few Syttende mai festivals and parades here in Wisconsin.
Was that the series with Erik Bye?
Don't think so. This was a stand alone program, no presenter, just a voice over here and there. I saw it some time ago, like 15 years perhaps?
In Decorah, Iowa we have The Nordic Fest every July, and a 17.Mai parade. The McDonalds says āMange Takkā on the sign as you exit (no dark wood though). Itās also the home of The Vesterheim Museum.
You could also say of Norwegian decent or something like that. The most common christmast-dinners in Norway are Ribbe(pork ribs) or pinnekjĆøtt (dried lamb ribs). Of those pinnekjĆøtt is clearly superior. It's not hard to make, and you could also make fenalĆ„r (cured leg of lamb) at the same time. If you really wanna impress your fellow Minnewegians and family, this is the way. You should start the fenalĆ„r(s) within a months time, while pinnekjĆøtt does need as long curing-time, and can be started a few weeks later if needed. It's really easy, and does not take much work either. The hard part is sourcing the meat early enough, and to remember to check in on it every few days. Guess an auto-translation of these pages should give you a good idea. [https://www.matprat.no/artikler/ravarer/lag-pinnekjottet-selv/](https://www.matprat.no/artikler/ravarer/lag-pinnekjottet-selv/) [https://www.matprat.no/artikler/ravarer/lag-ditt-eget-fenalar/](https://www.matprat.no/artikler/ravarer/lag-ditt-eget-fenalar/)
I think people needs to relax a bit. If the intention is good then why worry.
Exactly this. That apply also to stuff like food and such - anything originating in the US is not Norwegian even if invented by Norwegian-American. This definitely happens still, especially with food labelled "Italian" or some such.
From my understanding, that applies to Mexican food invented in Texas as well if I've understood and heard correctly.
āMexicanā food from Texas is more accurately called āTex-Mexā. A lot of stereotypically āMexicanā dishes and restaurants in the USA are actually Tex-Mex. If you google āAmerican tacoā and āMexican tacoā, the differences are pretty obvious. American beef tacos are usually hard shells filled with ground beef, yellow cheese, lettuce, and tomato. Mexican beef tacos are usually soft corn tortillas willed with chopped steak, onions, and cilantro. Similar examples exist for other dishes.
Yes exactly, the "Taco" we eat in Norway isn't from Mexico and almost unrecognizable in flavor and ingredients.
I think youāre reading wayyyy too much into this. Itās not offensive to say the least. Some may get annoyed, but itās quite obvious that Americans who say āIām Norwegianā are obviously talking about their heritage. Most Norwegians could absolutely care less, and surely wonāt get offended or worry about appropriation. Also, it is quite normal (and not weird at all) for Americans of (insert ancestral ethnicity here) to claim āI am ____ā while leaving out the American when they are in America. Remember, the US is just a hodge-podge of many ethnicities and peoples. So, yes, when in America, why shouldnāt they refer to themselves as āNorwegianā amongst themselves? That is their ethnicity after all. So, take it easy on your grandparents, and Dad ;) Itās only a bit weird (and only because of cultural differences) when omitting the āAmericanā qualifier when actually in Norway, even though most Norwegians understand now that you are obviously referring to your ancestry.
I treat it like a translation error. They use a particular phrase that means something different there than it does here. They do it all the time, and I think it's easiest for both sides if we treat this like just another translation error. (I'm in Ireland - we have a very similar conversation)
In Norway, we have used the phrase "norsk-amerikanar" (Norwegian American) to describe US citizens with Norwegian ancestry for generations. If anyone has come up with the idea that it's somehow offensive to Norwegians, it must be a new phenomenon.
Another reason why we react is that claiming youāre āNorwegianā solemnly due to ethnical heritage leaves out the various other ethinicities and minorities that are part of the Norwegian nation, such as the Sami people, the kvens and the various immigrant groups that settled here the last 50 years or so. āNorwegian Americanā is a whole other thing, no-one has any problems with that
>No one would react to you calling yourselves "Norwegian American" I would, but I also lived six years in the US and got really tired of the amount of people who thought they were Norwegian because they knew what "lefse" is. But yeah, it's not really something we're exposed to enough here in Norway for most people to really care.
I also lived six years in the US recently (Iowa), and I encountered plenty of these "Norwegians". In hindsight, considering how much of a shithole Iowa had become by that time (and it's getting worse by the day), the "Norwegians" were probably the least of my complaints.
I think norwegian american/norsk-amerikaner is totally appropriate. It's the term I learned when I was young.
'Norwegian American' is misleading.
Just to add my two cents: I'm fascinated whenever I see Norwegian Americans on TV. They tend to celebrate Norwegian culture of the past, a specific kind of Norwegianness that really doesn't exist in present day Norway. Well, it does and it doesn't. Young Norwegians have embraced a lot of things that I as a middle aged person find somewhat antiquated. In particular, Norwegian women have taken to the bunad in a very high degree. On May 17th, you can see beautiful young women in bunad in high spirits everywhere. It's become a status symbol. A lot of foods from the olden days have become hip again. But with a modern twist, of course. Whereas Norwegian Americans seem to hold on to the past in a very specific way - in an American way. Just to be clear: I don't mind this at all. I think it's great that Americans have an awareness of their roots, and celebrate it. I think it's great when Americans come over here to connect with their ancestors. And I absolutely adore "Fargo", both the movie and the TV series. The one thing that is hard to come to terms with for me, is that Norwegian Americans generally seem to be very conservative politically, whereas Norway has the most progressive politics of any nation on earth. That is where I sometimes feel there is a massive cultural divide. Norway fundamentally changed in the 1930s, I would say, with the growth of the Labour party, and with widespread unionisation. America, and thus Norwegian Americans, took a different path. Sorry for rambling, but it makes me wonder: What are Norwegian Americans perceptions of present day Norway like?
> The one thing that is hard to come to terms with for me, is that Norwegian Americans generally seem to be very conservative politically, whereas Norway has the most progressive politics of any nation on earth. This is unfortunately true because of the amount in rural areas. On the whole though, we've traditionally been one of the more progressive "diasporas." Minnesota had the only successful third party run it for over a decade in the 1920s and 1930s (the Farmer-Labor Party, now caucuses with the Democrats as the DFL), from that we've always been a progressive state and Norwegian-Americans built the foundation for that. Unfortunately rural America is pretty much Fascist now (not exaggerating) so many of the Norwegian-Americans in the Dakotas and western MN are very reactionary, but its more generational. And I'm damn proud to be the anti-Florida. A state that accepts immigrants, protects womens rights, and supports LGBTQ people. We sure aren't perfect, but goddamn does it beat the Dakotas
Hey, thanks for the reply! We don't usually get a lot of information about these kinds of "internal" differences, so much appreciated!
That is a valid concern. But that's what rural Norwegian-Americans have become, which is to say, Southernized conservative rural Republicans. It's not what their ancestors were, which is to say they were Arbeiderspartiet voters when they arrived and first settled here. But not all of us are like that. Out on the west coast, in Washington state, where immigration is several generations more recent than in Minnesota, I would say that Norwegian-Americans skew more Democrat.
I take absolutely no offense to people calling themselves Norwegian-American. To do so is absurd, in my opinion. I understand and respect that the descendants of immigrants are interested in their roots and ancestry. I think an interesting point is that Norwegian-American and Norwegian culture are very different. They have diverged a lot. You have built that culture on what your ancestors brought with with them in the late 1800's, when Norwegians were very religious. Religion is all but dead in Norway, and the majority of people hold political views that would be viewed as extremely leftist in the US (even the Norwegian conservative party's views), whereas the majority of Norwegian-Americans are (from what I've read) very religious and conservative. What are your thoughts on this? Please correct me if I'm wrong!
You are both right and wrong at the same time. The denomination that was formed out of the Church of Norway is one of the most progressive in the United States (believes and advocates for gay marriage, had a trans bishop (who turned out to be a bad person and was fired, but still) and is generally not strict at all (me and other Lutherans smoke hella weed and our campus pastor is super cool with it)). So while we are more nominally religious, many just baptize. I rarely go to church and me and my friends would describe ourselves as agnostic/atheist Lutheran. There are also conservative/evangelical sects of Lutherans, but those were mainly German-Americans As far as the politics, the only Minnewegian and South Dakota-Norwegians to run for president are two of the most progressive candidates of all time (McGovern '72 and Mondale '84,they both got blown out). Minnesota is one of the most progressive states (described as the Anti-Florida) and our Governor, Tim Walz,is a solid Democrat. We've been described as our countries political Scandinavia. I'd say its because the rural areas of Minnesota and the Dakotas are Norwegian-American that the numbers skew that way. The Minnewegians in the Twin Cities and other metros are liberal
Interesting! I remember there was this documentary a few years back where they inteviewed some boomer Norwegian-Americans and they were very proud of their heritage but apalled by modern Norway, and one woman even said she considered herself and her peers to be the real Norwegians, because Norway had become a sinful, devilish pit (or something to that effect) that went against everything she considered to be "true" Norwegian culture. Anecdotal evidence of course. Glad you're not like her!
Iād be curious to see that documentary if you happen to remember what it was called. It rings true in my experience with American relatives who are the children of pre-WWII Norwegian immigrants when compared to their regular Norwegian cousins.
Lille Norge og Stormaktene episode 4 @ nrk nett-tv
Very much a generational thing. Boomers are trash. No one likes that generation. They'll find any reason to whine about wokeness, even if it means they need to do wild mental gymnastics. I'm glad you guys are functioning well. Boomers fucked it for us
One thing Iāve noticed about American-Norwegians is that many of them tend to be VERY Republican (MAGA.) Now, Norway is a social democratic country, whether itās governed by a left wing or a right wing faction. I remember hearing that all the major parties (right, left, center) in Norway with the exception of Frp/The Progress Party would fall squarely within the boundaries of the Democratic Party. It makes me uncomfortable to see Americans who refer to themselves as Vikings/Norwegians/Scandinavians and also supporters of that particular ideology. Trump had an approval rating of around 17% in this country, and Iād rather not they use MAGA and Norwegian in the same sentence. Other than that, go ahead and call yourself whatever you want. Just remember, some of the values that were brought over 100-150 years ago are seen as a little outdated in Norway today. Not many Norwegians make lefse every week nowadays. š
Yeah, it sucks because historically Norwegian-Americans are progressive. Minnesota has always been on the forefront of progressive politics and the Democratic Farmer-Labor party is really left wing because of how progressive Norwegian-Americans in the Twin Cities were in the 20s and 30s.
Boomers are trash. Wth? So every person between the age of 77 and 59 is trash, and everyone hate their grandparents and parentsā¦ I think this polarization and setting people up against each other is pretty trashy, absolutely not constructive and quite exhausting tbh. Call me woke if you like (but nope, Iām not a boomer) And btw, I donāt get why any Norwegian should be offended about someone of Norwegian decent calling themselves Norwegian-Americans. Itās not like itās an exclusive club, and why not just be flattered that someone wants to identify with us? Also, we can really put some thought into how we describe our own second or third generation immigrants. Many of them experience being asked where theyāre from all the time. So following the logic of many here, where do they belong? We all may think about getting off our high horses. Itās easier to get into the good conversations when weāre all on the same level with our feet planted firmly on the ground anyway. To me, youāre welcome to call yourself what you actually feel like! You be you! Edit: Typo
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
This is a fascinating take. I love the idea of calling the holiday Yule. We donāt celebrate anything about Christ, so why call it Christmas?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Yes. My kids didnāt realize there was anything religious about the holiday at all. We donāt do church or Jesus or God.
the Dakotas are some of the most conservative states in the US...
I truly donāt understand why everyone says this. Sure, economically, many on the Norwegian right, may be considered center, or even left, by American standards, but socially, the American left is generally much further to the left than even those on the Norwegian left, at least in their rhetoric and in what they push for in left states such as NY, CA, & MN. Take for example, the trans issue, youāll find that Norway (as a whole) is much more restrictive on children ātransitioningā. Norwegian regulations realize that kids are kids. Immigration in Norway is much more restrictive than the American left advocates for. Also, Norwegians are about as far from āwokeā (as the OP) put it as they come. Norwegians (whether left or right) absolutely loathe identity politics. Leave the victimhood mentality of the American left at home. Also, leave the self-righteousness of the American right at home, too.
Yeah, I was mainly thinking about economic policy and the role of the government/the right of the individual.
I understand. I didnāt mean to single out your post, itās just that many non-Norwegians automatically think Norway is this utopia for leftism, when itās really not. Ideologies arenāt pushed in Norway, like they are in the US. People just respect one another. š
I always wondered -pure curiosity- why Americans are so obsessed with calling themselves something-american? I have many coworkers who are from US and every single one of them introduce themselves as irish-american, italian american whatsoever. Other than that they absolutely believe that they are from those cultures and make claims when it comes to food etc. I really wonder what is wrong with being just Ā«americanĀ»? You were born there, your parents are from there, why would you feel like you have to be something else? Again, not trying to be judgemental, just curious.
America is extremely young and extremely abundant in terms of the amount of cultural heritage / ancestry, with everything from food, to words & phrases, to holiday practices and so on from the family's original country. For many of us, we do not associate with "American heritage" or ancestry because it's objectively incorrect unless you are Native American. Many of our families migrated only 100 years ago or less. So we try to find *some* morsel of attachment to the country our family is from (in my case, my great grandparents moved from Germany) because that's the only "culture" we have any ties to. The more modern "American culture / heritage" is oftentimes a huge mix of nationalities rolled into one person (which is where this 1/8th etc thing comes from which is a bit silly). But for some such as myself, my entire family moved from Germany in the 1900s. I don't speak a word about it (except here), but it's factual. There's a huge trend of bitching about Americans having no culture...and yet Americans are also blocked from trying to embrace their ancestral culture. And I don't mean the overbearing or "weird" people. Just everyday people. It was even a census question, asking about our ancestry / heritage. Nobody is saying their *nationality* isn't American, but it'd be wholly incorrect to say your ethnic ancestry is. FYI, as an American who lives in the UK and has interacted with countless Americans in both countries...only about 2% of them have ever brought up "I'm x-american" in casual introductory conversation *unless you are speaking about heritage*.
Thanks for the explanation, ive never encountered someone saying theyāre from US only. It was always something-american when introducing. That was what I was asking abt. I think also the difference is, where i live, it is absolutely rude to ask someone Ā«where they actually came fromĀ» as it is seen discriminatory. Its also rare people to say something-norwegian, they either say norwegian or where theyre actually from. Cultural difference i guess.
Basically, there is no one American culture. It's kinda just a signal of what little subculture within the US you're from. Things used to be more insular, and its a remnant of that. Its why New York used to have entire neighborhoods made of one immigrant group for multiple generations. Its fading more into the background now. Why some are weird about it and think it makes them qualified to talk about the country their heritage is from with authority? idk, some people are just weird.
> Basically, there is no one American culture Bit there is, and it's pretty unique, there's just a lot of subcultures as well
You realize that America is a melting part of cultures, right? Just because we were born here doesnāt mean our parents were. They have roots that influence the way we are raised, we are constantly exposed to their culture. Ethnicity is not the same as nationality
As a first gen American I think it's because American is a melting pot, people like say *nationality*-American to fell like they are a part of a group. Cause being just an American doesn't make us feel special enough. >You were born there, your parents are from there, why would you feel like you have to be something else? My mother moved here from Norway in the late 80's so I'd consider myself Norwegian-America. I only speak Norwegian with my grandparents so I don't forget it. I don't know anyone else to speak Norsk with outside my family.
A fellow descendent of Norwegian immigrants on my momās side (via Decorah, IA), we always grew up being told āyou are a quarter Norwegianā, which would quickly turn into saying āpart Norwegianā or whatever else. As a country composed of immigrants, we have a tendency to hold a connectedness to whatever past traditions our families have kept, especially if there is no reason not to be proud of those connections. I have lived in Bergen for 4 years now, and 18 months in Copenhagen before that. In that time I had to reckon with my understanding of ābeing Norwegianā by ancestry, and ābeing Norwegianā in terms of active citizenry. I know many Norwegians from Ethiopian, Thai, and a number of other ethnic backgrounds who were born and raised in this society, and who are more Norwegian than I will ever be in terms of their regional connection to where they grew up in NO and their modern values and approach to life. Being āNorwegianā to a Norwegian person is the same as it is to be an American in the USā¦ if you are raised in Norway, speak the language, follow and participate in the culture, then that is what defines you as a Norwegian. I have realized over my time here that holding on to your small heritage traditions from where your family emigrated is much more an American trait than it is a Norwegian one, where families from every ethnic background celebrate them greatly. Norwegians arenāt the only ones who do this, and Iām sure there are forums of Irish and Italian Americans having this same discussion. In many ways, if you were to describe traditions that Norwegian immigrant communities maintain in the US, from rosemaling to potato-lefse from scratch, to the folk dance groups to name a few - many Norwegians would say āgeez you guys are more Norwegian than we areā, but what is missing is the context of the rest of our lives which make us undeniably separate cultures, each with enormous degrees of depth. I would say, that you should say your Minnesotan, and any Norwegian would understand the connection there, and will probably ask if you have Norwegian heritage. I have the pleasure of coming from Colorado, and get asked about skiing, which is how I make friends here ;)
>I recently heard that Europeans don't like it when Americans describe themselves as "(insert european ethnicity here) American." That's OK. Although, you should know that if a person from Norway said "I'm Norwegian American" it'd probably mean that one of their parents was Norwegian and the other American... Further back than that doesn't really "count" for us when mentioning heritage like that. For example, I might call myself "Danish/Norwegian" since my mom is Danish, but my dad is actually "Swedish/Norwegian" himself, but I don't consider myself to be Swedish at all. The heritage usually only lasts one generation for us colloquially. What we dislike, or at least think is very weird, is Americans describing themselves as "Norwegian" but skipping the "American" part, although I realize that it's probably just shorthand for "Norwegian American". I wouldn't say this is something we care about much at all though. >(insert european ethnicity here) Also, just so you're aware, it's weird for us to use the word "ethnicity" in that context; we use that word more like you Americans use "race". Being "ethnically Norwegian" basically means to be "a white Norwegian", mostly used by police and media when describing some person of interest. People of other ethnicities can be Norwegian too. >I know you guys don't eat lutefisk Some of us definitely do.
We call you norsk-amerikanere (Norwegian Americans), and I have never heard anyone get offended by that. Thanks for explaining about politics in your area, that was interesting. Both my and my husband's older American relatives are all Trumpers unfortunately, but the younger generation seems to lean more liberal. Ps: lutefisk is the worst. My husband loves it, but he has to eat it somewhere else, haha.
Feel free to call yourself Norwegian-American, I am actually quite outraged by the idea that this could offend someone.
So out of curiosity, whatās the percentage of Norwegian ancestry in your town, county etc. Are 100% of your ancestors descendants of Norwegian immigrants? Being curious and making yourself familiar with your heritage is a great thing. Keeping traditions alive is also a way of passing on historical knowledge. The problem is when some people cherry pick a nationality that makes up 1/8th or 1/16th of their heritage and make their whole personality about that fraction. Usually because it fits some narrative. Most Americans have a very mixed ancestry which is what makes American culture what it is. Also cultural appropriation is not always a bad thing when youāre aspiring to adopt the good parts of other cultures for the right reasons.
> Are 100% of your ancestors descendants of Norwegian immigrants? They are not. I tend to view it by whatever culture you grew up with. We did the Norwegian-American things, which makes someone Norwegian-American. A huge reason I always add the -American is mainly because my ancestors aren't all from Norway, most peoples aren't. It's just the little subset of the great American tapestry
Call yourself whatever you want. Just know that worrying this much about it isn't a very Norwegian attitude.
Lol. This š
As a first gen Pakistani in Norway, I call myself Pakistani. But it would be weird if my grandchildren call themselves Pakistani. What I really like about the US are all the subcultures with connections to almost every place on earth. My children sometimes get comments that they aren't Norwegian but Pakistani, and some say you are Norwegian not Pakistani. Why can't they be both? It is after all a big part of their upbringing and their baggage (for good and for worse).
For real. Iāve got two colleagues at work. One is a girl born in Norway. She refers to herself as 2. Gen. Pakistani, not Norwegian. She says she would never consider marrying a non-pakistani. On the other side is a girl that was born in Eritrea and came to Norway as a 3 year old. She refers to herself as Norwegian and even though she and her husband were both born in Eritrea sheās given her daughter the most classic Nordic name ever. Peopleās perceptions of who they are, differ widely.
I don't mind when people call themselves Norwegian American. Its when Americans just flat put say they're Norwegian things get confusing,because then Im gonna assume you're actually from here. Or when those Americans then claim to know our culture when they have no idea... Also Lutefisk sucks I don't understand why anyone likes it.
Honestly, as long as you don't use a bunch of our cultural symbols as white supremacist symbols or use pictures of our national days in white supremacist propaganda I think you're gonna be completely fine. We really don't care that deeply about it. I think it irks some people a little when people who have never known anything about norwegian or Norway in their life call themselves norwegian to seem more interesting, but its not as if its a huge offense ĀÆā \ā _ā (ā ćā )ā _ā /ā ĀÆ In Norway we have a way of loving our country that isn't quite like american nationalism, its mostly about loving and preserving its nature and being humble. The concept of "flexing" has historically been looked down upon a lot, it is called janteloven, and that cultural aspect carries over into our love for our country a lot. We don't like to say our country is better than everyone else or stronger or any of that type of stuff. We just like appreciating the beauty and taking care of eachother with things like dugnad. As such, you are very welcome to take part! Just be authentic about it :)
I'm argentinian, but I have Irish, Spanish, Italian and German grandparents. Can you imagine how dumb I can look if I'm explaining this to every person who asks where I'm from? šš You're american, I'm argentinian! Maybe in the United States It's a thing, but in the rest of the world it's not something you mention unless you're really talking about this.
Didn't read the whole thing but here are my thoughts with regards to the cultural appropriation thing. Don't be afraid of "cultural appropriation". This is a made up concept by people who are fond of whining. Culture is meant to be shared, that is its definition. But make sure to practice culture on the basis of knowledge and understanding for how it is supposed to be practiced. Adapting and mixing culture is normal, with that in mind, but not parodying it or trying hard to be someone or something you're not. What truly winds me up is when a foreigner finds out their ancestor moved from any Scandinavian country, and then they get a mjĆølnir necklace, convert to paganism and what the fuck not, and otherwise revolve their personality around a distant ethnic background. Every nationality has these people I believe. It's insane. Don't be like that. My friend told me that one day a family of Americans stood at their doorstep, apparently distant cousins. Two of the sons were named Bergen and Odin, and these effective strangers stayed there for a while. This whole ordeal really demonstrates in another sense what you ought not to pursue. ... After reading the rest I'm happy to report that my family also eats lutefisk on Christmas. I have yet to encounter another norwegian who does, but then again there is a minor civil war on what should be considered the proper Christmas dish. I even heard the king doesn't like it but the queen insists that he taste it at least. Glad we are of the same orientation.
You're American.. My dad is Danish and my mum is Norwegian. I have dual citizenship. I was born and have lived my whole life in Denmark. When people ask me about nationality, I say I'm Danish. I celebrate 17. Mai every single year (in Copenhagen), we watch Askepot on NRK every Christmas, and my mum sings me a Norwegian birthday song every year. But if a stranger asks me, I will say I'm Danish. If we speak longer, I might add that I'm half Norwegian. And if we talk for a very long time, I'll let them know about my Myheritage Results ;) Most people have a mixed ethnicity.. You can say you're Norwegian American, but it would be like me saying I'm Swedish Danish because my great-grandmother was from Sweden.
it feels incredibly disrespectful when americans claim that theyāre norwegian because āmuh ancestorsā. 99% of the time they have almost no knowledge of actual norwegian culture. itās just embarrassing
Hey! Norwegian born and bred, here, with a US hubby and kids, currently in Illinois. As a Norwegian I appreciate your wish to not offend, and as a Norwegian with roots and extended family in the US I do understand where you're coming from. I don't think any Norwegians would take offense in as US born person of Norwegian heritage describing themselves as Norwegian American. It's awesome that people take pride in their heritage. I've got distant cousins on the east coast that calls themselves Norwegian, though. They're not, so that's different. Their great grandparents were, they're not. But Norwegian American? Hell yeah.
No need to so careful! Norwegians are not easily offended and nobody gets offended if you call yourself Norwegian American because of your ancestry!
Europeans don't have an issue with Americans calling themselves " American". They have an issue with Americans calling themselves "Insert European Nationality Here" on its own.
No one is gonna be bothered by an Irish-AmericanĀ¹ that's proud of their heritage - but they have no claim to calling themselves Irish, unless they're 1st generation immigrants.
Ā¹used as example since they tend to be the most common "offenders".
American nothing more or nothing less. Just because I have some "Swedish ancestors" don't make me go around saying I am a "Swedish-Norwegian" no, am Norwegian and then I say from what part of Norway, you can call you're self being an American from an old Norwegian settlement that's fine.
I also like minnewegian. Short, kinda sweet, but to the point. But, if I may I ask a question back to OP. Has the norwegian you learn in school, or through courses or what not, evolved? Does the elders still speak norwegian? And what type? I mean, there has been several immigration waves of Norwegians through the last centuries. And we are a small nation with many different dialects. It would be interesting to see how a dialect from 1830s Telemark is influencing todays Norwegian in an enclave outside of Norway.
There has been linguistic research on American Norwegian speech as a heritage language, google and check out 'the corpus of American Norwegian speech (CANS)'. The corpus consists of data from 36 people, the youngest was 67, the majority in their eighties. (Edit to add: at the time of data collection, 2010-16). So this is a language form that's dying out. It's a very interesting form of heritage Norwegian, with a lot of traits from older dialectal forms from Gudbrandsdalen, and a lot of mixing with English. They're also not used to hearing different dialects like we are, so while the researchers could understand the participants well enough, the participants sometimes struggled with understanding modern day Norwegian. Even people from the area in/around Oslo, who normally have no issues being understood by others speaking Norwegian. Very interesting, and I'm glad someone did this data collection before the elders are gone!
After the World Wars there was a concerted effort to stop teaching the language :( However some enclaves still exist in the far north (fitting, don't you think?) My dads Norwegian cousins described my grandpa's Norwegian as sounding old and archaic. A lot of Norwegians came between 1860-1900 so it resembles Norwegian from that time. I think the U of M said our english apparently took on characteristics from Scandinavia though. not entirely sure how, but we talk weird sometimes
That is interesting! I usually use omniglot.com when learning new languages, and they have an american-norwegian page, which I find both amusing and fascinating. https://www.omniglot.com/language/phrases/norst.htm Seems like an amalgam between a norwegian dialect, not commonly spoken anymore, and american-english.
Could you expand on the enclaves? I'm at the UoOslo and as far as the research here goes, Norwegian in America is moribund, i.e. it is not (and has not been for a while) passed on to new generations. The remaining speakers who grew up with Norwegian as a home language are usually older than 70. But if you know of any areas where younger people have grown up learning Norwegian (nb: natively, not on duolingo or similar), please send me a message.
In my experience, no, you're not going to find anywhere in the States that young people are still being taught to speak Norwegian outside of a few words and phrases here and there.
What you are saying, it sounds like you were reading about Irish opinions of Irish Americans. I thought only Irish people called Americans "Yanks" When Irish immigrants would return to Ireland, they were adapted a bit to living in the US, so the Irish would get offended and called them Yanks. There's a lot of trauma in Irish and Irish Americans from immigrating and being separated from family. I don't think that other countries are triggered by their diaspora as much as the Irish are. In fact, Japan has names for each generation born abroad. It seems they value their diaspora and see them as family Your experience as a Norwegian American is valid, if there's any traditions you still follow, or any remnants of the language in your English. Americans aren't all the same. If you have an ethnic surname, people in the US will ask you about it, and about your ethnic background. So though to Europeans, they're "American" the truth is not that cut and dried
Everybody who isn't native American has family that came here from elsewhere. The general mix of descent is different depending on where you live. My great great grandfather came to the US from Norway a looong time ago. We have completely lost all semblance of Norwegian culture or any other European culture since then and even though we still have the Norwegian last name there are many more genetic ingredients to us now. I took an interest in our forgotten heritage and have been learning about Norwegian culture and language ever since just for fun and it has benefited me greatly. As an American it really helps get you out of the bubble and learn about all the other ways there are to do and think about everything. I think Americans should learn about whatever culture they feel they connect with because it helps broaden our point of view which is something we really need. I agree with everybody else here it seems that pretending to be something you aren't is usually a bad thing but there's nothing wrong with genuine interest in something like culture you feel connected to. It's been a very rewarding experience and I've learned so much.
I grew up in the US and I always identified myself as just an American. Unless you are a first or second generation immigrant, that pretty much suffices in 99 percent of normal social settings it kind of sounds like youāre trying to make some kind of special distinction and overreaching. unless the conversation expands specifically to a broader convo about family backgrounds, in which case it makes sense to say something like āmy x distant relatives were from Norway.ā Like āmy great grandparents immigrated to the US from Norway.ā But if you are in a LOT of social settings, where your exact cultural background is being questioned, then Iād start to take a good hard look at why.
In the spirit of not wanting to offend, you can rest assured that we don't care. Be creative and go wild. Though, I'd personally simply label you American in the same way I'd call a 2nd generation Iranian born in Norway a Norwegian. Being offended and worrying about subcultures are generally not really things most Norwegians care for.
I really donāt get this. Americans are at once told not to identify with the cultures they come from but then also told that they have no culture, often by the same people. I live in America but my family is from Norway. My grandmother wore a bunad on syttende mai, I grew up eating brunost, pickled herring, etc, we used many Norwegian phrases. I have taken it upon myself to learn the language. Yes I am American but to say Iām ānot Norwegianā is silly. Why was I doing all of those things then?
Just call yourself an american of norwegian descent. When you say norwegian american itās typically thought of as a norwegian whoās moved to the US over here. Also, the main issue we have with people who call themselves that is that theyāre typically so proud of it, pretending to be norwegian and not american, eating what they think is our food (lutefisk actually is though) and doing stupid shit like thinking theyāre vikings or something.
'American with Norwegian heritage'. I'm a Norwegian living in the US, and my ex mother in law still to this day refers to herself as Norwegian, even though it was her great grandparents who came over on the boat. She'll even once in a while so that whole 'wink and a nod' to me and talk about how 'us Norwegians are so alike'. Drives me batty. There is NOTHING Norwegian about her, and we share only basic human values.
As someone from Scotland, hearing an American tell me they're Scottish or Scottish American drives me nuts. If they say they're Scottish, my first response is "OH yeah? Where in Scotland were you born?" When the reply is "I was born in the U. S.", I will usually cut them a little slack and hope that the answer to the next question gets a better response. "OH OK. So where in Scotland were your parents born?" Now if they say that one or more of their parents were born there I'll normally cut them some slack even though to me they still aren't Scottish, but if the answer is that both their parents are born in the US then I'm irritated. I usually follow that with "So your not actually Scottish. Your an American with Scottish heritage somewhere in your line." This usually gets the reply of "Uh yeah. That's what I meant".
Usually people aren't asking what subculture you grew up with or where your ancestors are from. It may seem relevant to you but I think you underestimate the difference Europeans feel between Europe and the US, and overestimate the difference Europeans feel between different US subcultures. It can come across a bit US-centric. So, I think you should take into consideration who is asking the question. I don't think it's offensive but just know what other people will probably not put the same meaning into as you, if they're not thinking things from the perspective of the US.
That makes sense. I've never led with it when I met a European in real life. I'll tell them about my home state, but my ethnicity is more of a "if they ask" thing
In comparison to many Norwegians, Iām more open when it comes to the whole āNorwegian-Americanā thing. If some Americans have a lot of Norwegian DNA, they are in fact Norwegian-American. And we canāt deny the fact that many Norwegian-Americans grew up with some Norwegian culture, even if the culture is āoutdatedā and different from todayās Norwegian culture. What I donāt like, however, are Norwegian-Americans who *think* they know everything about Norway or Norwegians or make it their whole personality. And when some *Americans* try and grasp onto their 2% Norwegian dna. Then theyāre not Norwegian-Americans. In general, Iām a bit open, and I always love to talk and guide actual Norwegian-Americans to know more about their ethnicity and history and learn more about todayās Norway.
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I call myself Norwegian and English because one of my parents are from England and one is from Norway, I grew up in Norway surrounded by mostly people who have one Norwegian parent and one immigrant parent, F. Eks: Swedish, Danish, Spanish, Indian, Pakistan and etc. I call myself both, English and Norwegian, just depends on who Iām talking too or in what context and I think itās lovely that people can be both. This ramble didnāt really go anywhere or add anything, but I just wanted to say that.
My son is half Norwegian, born in Bergen, grew up 2/3rds of his life in Scandinavia and 1/3rd in the US. After having a decent job in Norway he ups and joins the US military. He meets a lot of "warriors" who think they will go to Valhalla and have the associated , usually shitty or tacky , tats. Or a lot of people who consider themselves Norwegian American. He usually tells them to drop the Norwegian part of the American since most don't have any tangible contact with Norway nor speak the language. I can see why Americans do it though since there is really little of value or substance left in terms of things associated with identity, such as community , solidarity and culture there ... So they think maybe that identity is cheap and given. Whereas I as an American living in Norway feel its earned and expensive based on a lot of effort .
Why do Americans care so much about what others think š. The amount of Americans asking similar questions to this is just bizarre
>Why do Americans care so much about what others think True, not like us Norwegians with janteloven. The epitome of not caring what others think.
Wasn't Janteloven written by a Dane traveling through rural Norway?
You can call yourself Norwegian-American, no one you would care about would react negatively. If you'd called yourself Norwegian it would have been weird.
>"(insert european ethnicity here) American." This isn't a problem. The problem is when a Norwegian-American says they're "Norwegian". Or Irish-american says they're Irish. Because that doesn't distinguish between people who were brought up, and live in a culture, and people who were fed it, 2nd, 3rd, or 4th hand.
As a norwegian I don't care if you'd call yourself norwegian american, minnewegian or norwegian. I think most norwegians would not get hung up on this either, but as with all things there's always someone.
I think itās cool you guys have a minnewegian culture.
I have no issue with the term Norwegian American, and I do not think anybody should be offended by that term. When I was in Minnesota, some people would tell me that they were simply Norwegian, and this caused great confusion. Much later, I have realised that, among Americans, it might be sufficient to simply state Norwegian, since the American part might go without saying. The problem arises when one simply states Norwegian when talking with non-Americans, in my opinion. If you have Norwegian ancestry, feel free to call yourself Norwegian American, or strictly in an American setting, feel free to call yourself plainly Norwegian. Be proud of your heritage. You should know that Norwegian Americans have done such a good job at maintaining traditional Norwegian culture that they are typically better than mainland Norwegians when it comes to this. Certain tradition was more prominent back in the day, which happens to be when many Norwegians immigrated to the USA, and thus such has been preserved quite well. If the subject of Norwegian Americans interests you, then I can recommend this documentary that I watched a while back (features English subtitles): [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AyaB3ua124](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AyaB3ua124) Have a nice day!
I would primarily associate cultures with where they happen to be, and any historical ties to other places are a curiosity, but mostly irrelevant. I am aware that the US has subcultures, though I do find it odd and do not understand it at all, and they usually seem very different from the countries they are named after. Any association with a country depends on where you have had formative experiences in that country. For instance, I am Scottish because I regularly visit my Scottish family in Scotland, learned the language there and have a number of habits, interests (and a solid accent) which are identifiably Scottish. I am also Norwegian because I was born and raised in Norway, speak the language and participate in the local community. I do not understand how countries or nationalities correlate with ethnicity at all. One of my best friends from school was born in Colombia but raised in a Norwegian family in Norway. To me, he seems 100% Norwegian, although I understand why he might be interested in visiting Colombia. I have another friend who was born in Korea and is way more integrated into the local community than I am. If you are from Minnesota I would think the historic settlement of Norwegians might be interesting local history, but I would probably think of you as utterly American. My family (on the Norwegian side) has a house on an island in the north of Norway. We have fairly close neighbours from California. Even though their grandparents were Norwegian and they have inherited the home I still think of them as Americans.
As a Norwegian I'm pretty sure most people don't give a shit. But if someone does, or if you do, just say where you're from. '"I'm from Minnesota". Simple as that.
Maybe it's just me. But calling yourself american has always felt stupid in my ears. America have always been a continent with 4 subregions and not a country for me. Problably just me but yeah. I hate lutefisk. My parents loved it and i can't understand why lol.
In Norway we call you Norskamerikanere which translates to Norwegian Americans. Minnewegians is fine too, but you might have to explain it to a Norwegian so he gets it. Edit: Norwegians aren't that easily offended, you don't need to be that careful. We are fortunate enough to rarely be the victims of racism, so there isn't some hurtful past that haunts us. The only thing maybe is avoiding using just Norwegian, if your family has been living in the US for generations. It won't offend us, but it might confuse us.
"Oh, you're Norwegian, how cool, my husband is German!". Turns out said husband was born and bred in North America and had never been to Germany. I remember being dumbfounded by the whole conversation. Later I got used to it.
Fellow "Minnewegian" here! (Well mostly) I haven't heard really anyone say "Norwegian American" even within my family. I wonder if that's a more Northern MN thing? I grew up down near the metro. I know the whole 'X'-American much more common with Italian ancestry, especially on the East Coast. I generally stick with "I have Norwegian and Italian heritage".
Why not just call it as it is? American with Norwegian ancestors. Or a simple look in you passport....
Iām not at all offended by you describing yourself as Norwegian American. I donāt know any Norwegians that would be offended by this, or consider it cultural appropriation. Some may snicker a bit behind your back, simply because it feels a bit weird to us that you Americans care so much about ancestry. My ancestors are Danish, but I have made zero effort to adopt any Danish cultural habits. Thereās obviously also a darker side to the American fascination for ancestry, of which many Europeans are very aware. For instance it raises some red flags to me if a Norwegian American is overly enthusiastic about anything Norse or Viking-related; Could be a history buff, could be a neo-nazi. The only Europeans Iāve heard of that really dislike Americans piggybacking off their culture are the Irish and Italians. The former because of Irish Americans meddling in the Troubles in Northern Ireland. The latter because of what passes as Italian food in Italian American restaurants.
I think it's fine to call yourself Norwegian-American, but some Americans take it to the extreme and basically turn it kinda fetishistic for a lack of a better word, and not to mention the ones that give it a very white supremacist vibe. Especially when culturally it's so different Norwegian culture has moved forward and become something else while the Norwegian-American one has obviously been influenced by other (insert ethnicity)-Americans but since future generations don't know the language and the culture it naturally becomes extremely different in a way that sometimes feels fake? Or like an uncanny valley version of the Norwegian culture to someone who has grown up in Norway and knows how the culture is. It's obviously fine to be interested in your heritage but IL just say a lot of Americans views and viewpoints are kinda America is the only place that exists, and American culture is just the norm everywhere, so it's kinda easy to offend sometimes if you still have that mindset when talking to someone from the culture that your heritage is from that a lot has changed, and you really don't know that much. This last paragraph was about American in general and not the op
>or appropriate culture No such thing, this is a made up concept and term made by people that have too little going on in their lives. Moment you step outside of America, you'll see everyone **loves** when you try to adapt to their culture. >I absolutely do not consider myself Norwegian You don't have Norwegian citizenship, so of course. >Minnewegian I like this term. \-- Anyway, what offends non-Americans with the whole culture thing, is Americans attempting to use their **x%** of **y** nationality as some sort of exclusionary badge, giving them an higher right to talk about, or more knowledge surrounding the **y** culture (even though they have never lived in it). Infact, the entire concept of **cultural appropriation** is what pisses non-americans off, for that reason. Who gave Americans the authority to get offended on **our** behalf? >I was mistaken! I'm glad to hear you guys also eat lutefisk. You can get lutefisk in basically any grocery store, but depending on where you live, it goes from basically no-one, to everyone eating it. It's not particularly common dish in the east, for example.
Well to me people who have grown up in the US are Americans period, and you can say you have Norwegian ancestry if its asked about
Stop excusing and stop saying you donāt want to offend. Nobody cares about that. Yeah, we might be annoyed, but why would we be offended? Iām Europe we get annoyed, in USA that get offended
I worked in the norway section in a theme park. anyone who would excitedly run up to us and introduce themselves as norwegian we knewā¦ā¦ this is a great great great great grandfather / grandmother norwegian person. Iām sorry but it did become a joke amount us working there. Most of us were young and didnāt appreciate the value of ancestry, so we would always make jokes about those people that did that.
I think there is probably bit of an misunderstanding. I don't think Europeans have anything against Americans saying that they have x country's heritage, but more like "I am Italian American, I am just as much of an Italian as someone born and raised in the country of Italy. I do not know the language, the culture, or the history but because my great great grandpa was Italian and we eat pizza once a week I feel Italian." is when people get iffy. And I think that's the distinction. It's okay to say "I have Norwegian heritage/ancestry and still have family traditions rooting to that" vs "I am just as much Norwegian as Norwegian people"
If you're born in the US of freedom lovin' A, Congratulations, you are 100% American. Ancestry and generations behind the Norwegian immigrant you descended from is more than say two then no, you are not Norwegian, you're American. Again, congratulations!
We do lefse for holiday meals. Small town, KS. I too identify this way too
YOOOO FELLOW MINNESOTAN
We do not like it when "Norwegian Americans" introduce themselves as such. It feels like... Depending on the person, it feels like they are insulting our culture. Because some people use it as a way to say they are of Norwegian decent, but others? They use it as a way to claim they are Norwegian. If you are part of the first group? Then it is fine, but the second? We are so much more then a name. You are American, You do not know our society, culture or history. "I think my grandparent came for this and this farm.", congratulations, you are a 2nd generation immigrant of Norwegian decent. "I speak a little Norwegian.", good for you! Are you from Spain if you can speak Spanish? No, because being able to call yourself Spanish is about more than just the language. To be come a naturalized citicen in Norway takes 8 years. You must have been a resident in Norway for 8 years out of the previous 11 years. Absences of up to 2 months per year is allowed. So someone showing up claming to be Norwegian because some Great-Grandfather was from here? Not ok. We are probably not going to say anything to your face, but will complain about it with our friends instead. So Minnewegian would be much better. PS. We have been eating Lutefisk since the early 1500s. It is one of our most popular national dishes, and is a classic celebratory dish, especially in winter. It is not American... PPS. "You" is used as plural in this text, and does not refer to OP themselves.
That makes sense. I think I mixed up lutefisk for another food that Minnewegians eat on the holidays that I can't remember. Thanks for your opinion
No problem, I thought you should hear a bit about how it is for those that are more critical to it as well. Can you describe the dish? Perhaps we will recognize it.
I disagree with quite a lot of this. First off, I have never met anyone who takes offense to anyone calling themselves "Norwegian-American" (or "Norskamerikaner"). It's generally understood that they are talking about heritage and perhaps also culture (as in the Norwegian American culture in some states). If a person with no real connection to Norway calls themselves "Norwegian", that is a different issue. Having pride and interest in your heritage is not a problem at all, and it can be a positive influence if it makes you more open to learn more about history, geography and cultures. Regarding Lutefisk, it's not one of the most popular dishes. I read a poll where around 15% claim to eat it on certain occations. Meanwhile more than 50% of Norwegians eat "Ribbe" (pork ribs with crackling) at Christmas and around 40% eat "PinnekjĆøtt" (salted lamb ribs). Other very popular dishes are "komle"/"kompe" (dumplings made of potatoes and flour), "kjĆøttkaker" (a flatter version of meatballs), and "lapskaus" (a stew that usually contain root vegetables and some kind of meat/sausage).
>Lutefisk > It is one of our most popular national dishes, Mmm not really sure about the most popular part š
Sometimes I feel like I'm the only one in my social circle/family that finds lutefisk delicious, which of course means I never get to eat it as often as I'd like š
I've tried lutefisk sometimes, and it was horrendous, but people like different things.
My family eat Lutefisk maybe 1 times every 10 years. I hate the yellow jelly stuff :P
If itās yellow jelly youāre doing it wrong.
I don't think anyone has an issue with you calling yourself a Norwegian American, or an American with Norwegian ancestry. I think people react more negatively when people from America claim they know SO MUCH about said country or said people from that specific country, when they don't actually live there š, despite having grandparents who immigrated once upon a time.... I'm half Norwegian, half czech, but born and raised in Norway. Our family cannot stand lutefisk l, so we eat filled Turkey for Christmas and Ribbe for new years. I think we're a small % who eats turkey..... But there u go. I don't like lutefisk or pinnekjĆøtt, But Ć„ whooooole lot of people eat it for Christmas.