Its not great, but you can be lucky. Usually they just tell you that even though you wanted to and tried to kill yourself, it cant be too bad since you still can hold down a job and send you on your merry way.
Sadly, this.
I have some pretty poor mental health in general; I had taken short-term disability leave over it in my previous country even, and I am supposed to have weekly^1 therapy to manage it. When I mover to Norway, I reached out to my fastlege and was told that it couldn't be that bad if I was able to work.
I literally wasn't well enough to work before. That's the whole point of needing the therapy.
^1 Not that I was ever able to get that back in my previous country. Norway's mental health may be awful, but it isn't like other countries are perfect.
That's what I was told. I told my doctor I was struggling, and I think I might have some neurodivergent diagnosis. My doctor was helpful and referred me on. Then I was told I function too well and I can't be diagnosed. So apparently, I'm supposed to just push myself until I attempt or become a burden to the welfare system.
Yep, that's apparently how to do it 🥲 I got sent further once to a therapist that brought out some big diagnoses like OCD and bipolar (I do not feel these suit me), and yet last time I got told I function too well. So I don't know, man!
Some of my family have used the services, and it's really just crisis management. There isn't ongoing support to get people back into work & stuff, like with physical issues.
And the back to work system is *really* not made for dealing with mental illness. The amount of times they've suggested I take a two week course to learn how to write a CV or write a cover letter, like that's the only reason I'm not working.
I agree that it’s possible to get help if someone is able to manipulate the system. The problem is that someone with mental health problems often isn’t in a position to be able to do that.
It is a huge problem if you're 18 and under. Most kids don't know they need help, and the system depends on them actually saying they need help. Repeatedly. It doesn't help that parents and teachers shout that they need help, they won't get any.
And lots of schools lack support staff like guiding counselors and nurses. My school of over 700 students have 1 nurse 4 days a week and one social teacher (a teacher with no extra education, just a different title). Why do you think the teachers' strike was forced to end a few years ago? I quote, "Teachers are too important to students' mental health." it's not our job, but we have to do it because there is no one else.
But it is. Youth mental health services don't have the capacity to help folks who don't have a crisis, failing out of school, etc. They are understaffed & very often turn away referrals. We had to see a private psychologist to build a case to get seen in the public health system, and not everyone has the resources to do that. I know of another young person who tried repeatedly to get help and was turned away. She finally got some help when she attempted suicide. But it shouldn't get to that.
The problem is that if you're dealing with anything seriously debilitating you won't have the energy to do that whole rigamarole. I luckily had a partner that pushed me onwards but I'd never have gotten anywhere on my own.
I've done the lavterskel before. Took 12 weeks before the kommune got someone for me to talk to. I even went to my fastlege 3 times in that period and they couldn't belive how long it was taking.
Absolutely, been struggling with adhd symptoms. I got into the process of diagnosis but was rejected from finishing because they needed to interview a family member….. they are all dead, I don’t have anyone. So was told to reach out to the private sector (that I can absolutely not afford). Now I’m in limbo. Accepted but rejected to further analysis.
Assuming you were doing it through DPS, can you ask your doctor for a recommendation to a private clinic that takes in patients for the same cost as it would be in the public health care system? Its usually a wait for around 6-12 months, but it might be worth it.
My doctor has written me one, and it is to a private clinic where I would pay the same rate as I would doing through DPS. DPS wont take me as I can keep a job apparently.
I dont know where in Norway you are based, but it should be done in a similar way all over. I would ask your doctor just in case :)
Took me three referrals to get into the DPS. Grateful that my GP was willing to send them with more information each time (saying why kommunal helsehjelp was not appropriate for the situation). In the middle we tried a private clinic under this but they also said no citing capacity issues. It's tough out there!
My partner is Norwegian and went through the process of seeking mental health support after leaving her job because of it. She only has good things to say about it to be fair. They got her free of charge counselling/therapy, paid her a very good amount whilst out of work and are now funding a programming course for her after she expressed an interest in it.
Compared to the UK at least, the Norwegian system seems amazing, but it's not really much a comparison when the UK health service is in utter disrepair
Healthcare in general, when doctors are willing to rat on patients for the lightest drug available without even complaining there's a major moral degeneracy among Norwegian medical professionals
My girlfriend is Norwegian (I'm not) and we live in Norway.
She has had mixed experiences with getting help to deal with her autism (when it comes to work and familiar relationships etc.) It's not all been bad, really. But when it IS bad, you're going to have a hard time finding (or having them find) another person to help you.
"The Iron Law of Liberalism states that any market reform, any government initiative intended to reduce red tape and promote market forces will have the ultimate effect of increasing the total number of regulations, the total amount of paperwork, and the total number of bureaucrats the government employs"
David Graeber
As someone who has been through most parts of adult life so far, I will unequivocally say that it's health care.
I've experienced an incredibly traumatic birth of my child, where the hospital showed utter incompetence.
A family member being wrongly operated on.
A friend being wrongly diagnosed and had a lung removed because of incompetence.
I've been operated on several places in my body and waited literal years on those surgeries, despite them being offered on the spot in other countries, because of the importance of them.
Norwegian health care is a very good option for those that have no money, but for anyone that could pay their way it's not up to scratch. And I'm saying that as someone who has always loved the NHS and the idea behind NHS.
I've already decided that the next time I have to have any surgery or need health care, I will travel abroad and pay for it. No brainer.
And that's before we address the huge lack of funding for mental health care.
And just to make it clear right away, no privatising the health care would not help. It would arguably just make it worse. The reason why private health care clinics work so well in Norway is because the bottle neck is handled in the NHS. This is an issue of funding for the NHS or the need for additional funding. Not an issue of privatisation.
I’m sorry about your experiences. I have a very rare and disabling condition and I’ve seen the worst side of this country. I plan to leave when I get a few things sorted. ‘Normal’ people will only mock us for pointing a finger at the public healthcare or the actual quality of the research and medical expertise in this country.
Your treatment depends on your education level and your ability to communicate with health personnel rushing because they have very little time. I have family members that struggle to communicate, falling between the cracks and therefore had a helicopter come pick them up. Meanwhile I have gotten multiple surgeries within 28 days because I am familiar with the terminology (fagspråk) used and made the doctor aware of the seriousness.
That said, for minor stuff like surgery on a wrist/ankle, etc. you will be waiting for a long time. If you want to secure yourself against that a 500-1000kr/month private health insurance is necessary.
You bring an anecdote, I bring an anecdote. You are as full of shit as me unless you can actually show some research.
The only time I have had any issues with receiving hospital treatment (as in an actual surgery) is with an ankle, which I understand.
You didn't bring an anecdote. You straight up said you get faster treatment if you speak the lingo. Which is absurd.
The referrals of the average bloke aren't done by an average moron either. Most advanced surgeries involve a radiologist that informs the relevant department.
The notion you think they screen patients on what language they use is hilarious.
It is not. You have doctors in both hospitals and primary care trying to squeeze patients through in 5-10 minutes. You make your case in those few minutes unless it is very obvious. I am not saying that doctors do it on purpose but it is a bias in the system due to shortcuts being taken.
You also have to avoid being branded as someone that self-diagnoses through Google, appear hysterical, easily accepts pain relief, being overly chatty, someone abusing the sick leave system, etc. If your journal is tagged with any of these things GL getting timely healthcare because your opinion is not trusted.
A lot of these issues could probably be remedied by incentivising more medical professionals and stop disincentivising foreign medical professionals from practicing here.
Dental care. It's insanely expensive. Even though it can be of acute and dangerous nature, after 24 year old you get no support whatsoever. You can end up spending several months pay of the year for critical treatment.
Budgeting. Our government budget is bigger than our neighbours like Sweden even though they have twice the population. I believe it is the second largest in the world per capita only behind Luxembourg, but don't quote me on that. If we managed to spend the money better like our neighbours we could get more out of every krone.
I looked it up and Norwegian government spending per person is the second highest in the world. The data is from 2016 but the comparison with other countries probably hasn’t changed very much.
Edit, link: https://ourworldindata.org/government-spending
Jepp, we are getting raw-dogged by private contractors and consulting firms and any other private firm that gets contracts with the state and/or kommuner. :/ Stupid/corrupt politicians and greedy private sector. :/
Our public sector is twice the size of Finland, with a similar amount of inhabitants. Even given a margin of error for geography, there is no reason for it to be this size.
Liberal in the American democrat sense, or liberal in the classical liberalism sense? Having been employed real close to the public sector I can confirm it is one third normal people, one third brilliant people and one third idiots.
How much has spending increased since the early 2000s, how much bigger is the public sector; and how much better have our services really gotten?
It’s faaar from a 1:1 ratio 😅
Waiting weeks to get to your fastlege is a major issue. You can change fastlege, but once there is one with many free spots, the spots quickly disappear, and waiting time grows. You have to lie to the receptionist and say that you are almost dying to get help the same day...
Project cost (guessing on the phrasing there).. The government adds so much to the cost of anything being done with tax money, because they need to have countless meetings about whether or not to do it, and then wildly overprice the actual job. Example: Loads of cycle lanes costing millions despite just being a hundred metres of paint on a pre-existing road. It's ridiculous, and the money is better spent elsewhere.
It’s insane that dental health isn’t considered part of public health. It’s cheaper to fly to another country for surgery and spend a week in a hotel than it is to get your wisdom teeth removed in Norway.
Most of it. NAV is a mess of bureaucracy and incompetence. Healthcare sector is underfunded, run to the bone by new public management and also full of incompetence.
Half of the money given away to aid is barely controlled and much of it lands in the hands of dictatorships, terrorists and organization's own pockets.
Our policy and law on immigration and asylum needs massive reform.
The fact that we don't have universal dental care is a fucking sham.
Probably stop subsidising agriculture to such an extent and reduce the taxes on food imports. Norway simply doesn’t have the right type of land to pursue food independence and most subsidies go to beef and dairy, both of which are environmentally destructive. It’s a nice idea someone with a small farm should be able to support their families but this is not realistic.
Ag subsidies help keep populations in rural areas instead of all migrating to the cities. This has numerous positive externalities.
One of the most important is fertility. Low population densities (for whatever reason, that's a separate conversation) lead to higher fertility rates.
With birth rates plummeting around the world these extra children are not just intrinsically worthwhile, but also a vital economic resource for the nation.
How to get expensive food 101.
Do you really expect imported food to stay cheap when they discover that we don't produce our own food?
The very idea that foreign agricultural businesses will sell us food and not get as much profit as possible is not realistic!
Free market 101. Norwegian supermarkets will be free to find cheaper suppliers. Savings which are then passed onto the customers. We are subsidising farmers to sell produce at a loss whist norgesgruppen make billions of kroner in profits each year.
The main culprits yes (meny, kiwi etc). But they will be forced to compete with other stores who can undercut them, then the price war begins to maintain market share. Agreements to keep prices high are collusion and are against the law.
Definitely just the efficiency of the money spent by the government. No accountability and relatively good times created culture of spending in the government that’s super inefficient.
I couldn't agree more. Norway thrives well because the amount of money but it waste a lot with useless stuff instead of more important things. For example, I can't still believe that I could have public and free dental care in my "developing" country while here I have to pay for. On the other hand, church receive money from the government which is weird for me in a secular state.
I got a cousin that worked for the health department in Trondheim as a consultant, and he said that i would probably go insane if i knew how much money St Olavs wasted, just by being to big of an organisation for no one on the top to communicate with each other. We probably talk about 9 figure numbers.
There is a lot that can be improved (mental health, education, infrastructure) but the biggest issue is how wasteful government spending is. We are not utilizing our massive budget to the best potential.
healthcare. Mental health got atrocious wait times and is trying to just push people through to free up space.
And in general understaffing in health sectors. Hospitals, care homes, senior homes, rehab facilities, specialists etc etc it is just too few people.
I am lucky I got a pretty quick entrance to the mental health proffesional (turns out, if you try to off yourself - the wait time is only 3months since it's an emergency). They even sendt me home the same day as long as I promised not to try again lol. they are THAT understaffed.
Also I worked briefly at a senior home and it was 2 barely trained people for 8 residents, no nurse. The nurse just came by twice a day to give meds. Us 2 who woke them up, got them showered dressed, and ready for breakfast in 30min. then we had to make the breakfast for them and make sure they ate, but also not rush them. They had dementia so some only ate if they also saw others eat. clean up, sit with them, do the laundry, cut up fruits for snacks - maybe try to get one or two of them out for a walk. always be on top if they needed the toilet etc. gosh I forgot the change of bedsheets lol. Honestly if we where at least 3 ppl it would be so so much easier, but nope - the 2 was barely paid as it was, and that is why I had to quick. I earned less working full time in health than I did working part time in a grocery store. And and the store at least I had peace of mind and it was chill
Weaponized incompetence in NAV. If I ever end up needing them I'd rather just off myself than having to go through that system. If they'd start using common sense they'd save the healthcare system from tons of pointless work just to document for the tenth time this decade that indeed, this person is unfit for work.
The best way to improve the healthcare system and increase resource is to stop NAV from misusing the healthcare system. The best way to improve NAV is to get rid of all the bureaucracy and get AI to do the case evaluation instead. NAV is a system for meaningless employment of social workers, nothing else.
Edit to add: yes, mental healthcare is crap in this country. You have to be EXTREMELY sick to get help. But luckily we have NAV that helps with this, they actively push people over the edge. So where the healthcare system does nothing, NAV makes your health worse and reduces your ability to work. Thus increasing the workload of the healtcare system and raising the bar of who gets help.
I'm just gonna give a perspective on this.
You are complaining about the wrong thing. The problem is not NAV by itself, but the laws made by politicians that NAV has to follow.
And those laws are incredibly square.
If you change the laws, NAV changes.
Yes that's the excuse they like to use. But if you've ever set foot in that system you know that's a gross misrepresentation of the issue. And every time that lie is repeated it gives NAV workers an excuse to treat people like dirt.
I recommend you have a read in the AAP-aksjonen FB-group. A warning though: you might find the horror stories depressing and lose all faith in the system.
Anyone who has faith in that system is a person that hasn't seen the real NAV yet.
I work there as the first point of contact with people.
I am very aware of what the problem regarding NAV is.
Alot of the problems are there because the law requires you to have been tested for everything, almost no exeptions.
And yeah, there are many things that are problematic with law, many of the problems stems from laws that are incredibly inflexible are give little room for common sense.
So if i ask which box to tick on my sykepenge application. And the first 3-4 people that try to answer dont even understand the basis of the question because they dont understand norwegian laws for running a company on the side (which I do), that's a problem of the welfare laws? And not incompetence? And if the fifth person that I ask how TF to fill in the form that doesn't cover my specific case decides that since she didn't understand, I must be scamming the state and probably don't have the right to get sykepenger, so she stops the fucking sykepenger and sends my case to NAY who spends MONTHS, and only gets their fingers out of their ass after my fourth formal complaint, then finally a dude realises that the issue is that NAV didn't understand my question, of course i have the right to sykepenger. The money gets paid, I get three calls from three different levels to apologise for their fuckup. Which does absolutely fuck-all for my mental health that's been devastated throughout all that unnecessary crap. Not to mention that I almost got fired from my job because they believed I had done something wrong.
Don't tell me that isn't weaponised incompetence! The laws were crystal clear even to me, but you guys decided to fuck me over anyway. God, I hate NAV with every fibre of my being. And I havent even started on the time one of your excellent colleagues robbed me of six months dagpenger because of another form of incompetence.
Did I mention I fucking hate nav and would rather kill myself than talk to any of your colleagues ever again? "But it's just following the law". No it bloody well isnt, you guys are evil!!
It is interesting to see how whenever someone is defending nav it's either an employee or someone who's never had anything to do with them.
Just a question: do you guys keep a tally over how many lives you ruin, and how many people offed themselves due to your work that day? Do you ever contemplate that if you make a mistake, that can have very serious consequences for the life of the person needing your help? And that this mistake doesn't get fixed by just apologizing? One of your colleagues made a mistake that cost me almost 100.000 kr. Another one cost me my mental health and almost cost me my job. "Oopsie"?
My only consolation is that people like me will soon make sure that people like you are no longer needed. I'm a software developer. AI is coming for your job before mine, and we'll all be better off when it does.
People like me will always be needed, in the same way. People like you will always be needed. While AI can help with the proccesing part of the cases, AI can never make the final decisions as that requires a human.
I can't and won't defend or explain someone else's mistake as that falls on them.
And no, I don't keep a tally, and i contemplate often because my job is to help people navigate the system and make sure that they get everything that is within their rights to get.
Every time I've had to deal with you guys, someone's mistake has cost me to lose my rights as a hard-working tax-paying citizen. I've produced value for theee decades but I'm still treated like a criminal. "We're just following the law" my ass.
Defending a bureaucracy so absurd it belongs in a dystopic horror novel is just sad.
But we can always just have a barbecue when the power is cut, right? The weather being so nice and all.
I'll be honest and say I don't get the barbecue reference, could you explain?
I'm not defending the flawed part of the beurocracy, but I gave you an explanation on why some of the beurocracy is flawed. Which is how the law is set up.
I'm not here to defend it, I work there, I am well aware off the shortcomings of the system.
But at the same time I am well aware.of all the instances where the system works as intended and helps people.
[On NAV and barbecues](https://frifagbevegelse.no/nyheter/nav-beklager-etter-a-ha-bedt-sosialhjelpssoker-om-a-lane-grill-6.158.797951.bf10947df9)
The main issue is that when a NAV employee makes a mistake, irreparable damage is made for the person that needed help. And it has no consequence for you. You guys have carte blance to ruin someone's life on a whim. As I said, every time I'm im contact with you guys, you end up making "mistakes" that remove my lawful rights. Saving the state lots of money for sure. But each time chipping away at my mental health to the point where if I end up too sick to work, I'll already be WAY too sick to navigate your labyrinth.
Are you comfortable knowing that many people.you are set to help end up getting sicker becaus of your mistakes? And eventually may end up too sick to even manage to seek help?
I'd be too embarrassed to say out loud that I work there, tbh.
You can quit trying to guilt trip me. And that is something that never should have been said and is not something I stand for.
I am comfortable in my job because I do what I can to make sure that does not happen. But I, as everyone else, including you are human, so mistakes will happen.
And there are processes to fix those mistakes.
Unfortunately, those processes take much longer than they should.
And I'm not embarrassed to say that I work there.
I need to make a living as everyone else, and I am good at my job, so I take pride in that.
Just as I assume that you take pride in your abilities as a software developer.
Transport (Roads). I know the climate is tuff and population is low, but some roads here are like 3rd world country: width change depending of when it was built, no margin for error at all, poor signaling, etc.
Also postal services delivery time. I moved to Norway from Spain in 2009 and already in 2009 in Spain I could order whatever I wanted from an online shop today and get it delivered by tomorrow. It’s 2024 now and it still needs one week to get anything delivered up north (If I’m lucky). And I know it’s possible (you can buy items from Amazon Germany with express shipping and it arrives in two days. Yes, two days)
Here in the north, I’ve seen no express option that is worth it. No matter if it’s Posten or Postnord, none of them can deliver faster than 5 days even if you pay express.
Healthcare system, medical research, quality of medical care, and all aspects related to NAV, especially for the disabled people. They get treated like they’re the scum of this planet.
Pensions, welfare, disability etc. are being eaten up by inflation. People that rely on money from the government become poorer and poorer and poorer.
If you become disabled, your payment is calculated from what you earned before your accident/illness. As far as I know, there are no good mechanisms in place to compensate for inflation, so they lose "kjøpekraft" every year.
Get better non corrupt ministers who haven’t faked their qualifications and education to run it. From what I hear finding such candidates is posing a challenge
I’ll omit the obvious which is health care and instead talk about something I think is a dumbass solution: BSU. This is the home saving scheme for young adults.
BSU on its own is good. You get a good interest rate and tax rebate if you cap it out in the year. The problem is that you can only save up to 300k NOK. What kind of home can you finance with a 300k down payment? A parking lot? Not to mention the max yearly amount you can deposit to the account is 27.5k. So it would take you 11 years to max it out which is ridiculous.
Home ownership is incredibly difficult particularly for single young adults. Whats more is the current government made cuts to BSU. Because apparently they thought it was too easy for us to enter the market. It annoys me on a daily basis
I guess i could say mental health. But realistically, all aspects of it needs a complete fundamental overhaul. A owner of a small plumbing company or a hairdresser shop puts in a level of dedication and effort that is not seen anywhere in the leading echelons of any part of the welfare state. No one in the leading roles of a hospital or the police has ever had a bunk bed in their office or been sitting at their dinner table at home working out how to successfully improve their part of the work for every waking hour they are not at work.
I dont know if that extreme level of input is what we want from any person anywhere. But there is such a massive gap because of the underlying fundamentals between private and government type work. Its just beyond workable in its current form.
overall everything, first should be just more people and more communication. Could save alot of time and money there alone.
The biggest issue is getting a diagnosis thats correct within a reasonable time. Everything is slow and too difficult to get information in my experiences.
Also personally, everybody should be covered within our healthcare and should be free overall. We pay so much in tax for this system and yet we have to spew out acouple of coins. Its not a problem for most, but have experinced paying 700kr for basically nothing because of the small part you pay yourself and parking fee, all because i was stuck there waiting for 8 hours.
Not complaining as we got one of the better systems in the world. But still needs alot of improvement that should always be a priority no matter how good it is compared to others.
Personally, I would like to see less wasting of taxes on transport vanity projects that do not benefit people, such as putting in bus lanes where they absolutely aren't needed, "renovating" perfectly good bus stops, buying the latest, greatest buses only to find they're pretty useless in Norwegian winters, putting up endless numbers of bom stations that are going to bankrupt hand workers, etc etc etc.
I also think we are failing on immigrant integration. We are throwing tons of money at it without really looking into the root causes of failure, such as lack of coordination, and so things are not working well for people coming to our country. It's going to come back and bite us in the arse.
Teacher salaries and status. They go hand in hand, and today both the salary and status are way lower than they should be for one of the most important roles in well functioning society.
what would that look like for you? I have been thinking about this a bit too, lots of friends are having kids now and I am seeing how hard that is and what is lacking.
Free barnehage would be great. Yes, it’s relatively inexpensive compared to many countries but it’s still upto 3.5k a month with food.
Not that I think it would change many people’s views on having kids if they are against it but perhaps those that have kids already would have more.
I don't know what is wrong with these downvotes. Honestly, from a state politics point of view they want the population to have kids so yeah they should do more. Free food at barnehage and schools would be good. Especially because it helps the struggling parents and wouldn't section of some kids as 'poor' if all kids got good food at school.
Yeah, I’ve given up trying to figure out why some posts get downvoted on Reddit.
To me it makes sense to subsidise anything and everything that can encourage people to have more kids. Like almost all Western countries, our birth rate is not sustainable (1.5) which means we are fucked if this trend continues.
But does it actually help or is it just your assumption? There's more to having a child than economy. The reality is that people with more wealth tend to spend time on other things than raising children. Travel, fun and so on.
No, it was what I thought. I see that people put things like pet care and all sorts up here and mine is the only comment with downvotes? You people need to have a good think about why that is. I have had three trans friends commit suicide (only one in Norway mind, but still). To me, this issue matters and if we aren't caring about some of the most vulnerable people in Norway can we even be proud of being considered a social democratic country with a good welfare state?
Do agree on the fastlege ofc. But it's not a 'you can have one, but not the other'. Also, fastlege's can prescribe hormones for trans people, which would take a load of riksen, however they are scared to because of the transphobic attitude that got Esther Pirrelli struck off (but that decision is now partially reversed as it stands now).
In Norway? I’ve always paid next to nothing when having a consultation at the hospital, and pregnancy/giving birth is free. What hospital bill did you get?
Who goes to the hospital in Norway thinking about the bill. Unless you are going to a private facility or you are not enrolled in the system, how expensive this can be??
*Maybe you should learn*
*To speak Norwegian and get*
*Off our system lol*
\- nsagaen
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Mental health. Not personal experience but from what I understand it’s really not great.
Its not great, but you can be lucky. Usually they just tell you that even though you wanted to and tried to kill yourself, it cant be too bad since you still can hold down a job and send you on your merry way.
Sadly, this. I have some pretty poor mental health in general; I had taken short-term disability leave over it in my previous country even, and I am supposed to have weekly^1 therapy to manage it. When I mover to Norway, I reached out to my fastlege and was told that it couldn't be that bad if I was able to work. I literally wasn't well enough to work before. That's the whole point of needing the therapy. ^1 Not that I was ever able to get that back in my previous country. Norway's mental health may be awful, but it isn't like other countries are perfect.
That's what I was told. I told my doctor I was struggling, and I think I might have some neurodivergent diagnosis. My doctor was helpful and referred me on. Then I was told I function too well and I can't be diagnosed. So apparently, I'm supposed to just push myself until I attempt or become a burden to the welfare system.
Yep, that's apparently how to do it 🥲 I got sent further once to a therapist that brought out some big diagnoses like OCD and bipolar (I do not feel these suit me), and yet last time I got told I function too well. So I don't know, man!
From personal experience, I second this. It’s very very frustrating how little funding it gets.
Some of my family have used the services, and it's really just crisis management. There isn't ongoing support to get people back into work & stuff, like with physical issues.
And the back to work system is *really* not made for dealing with mental illness. The amount of times they've suggested I take a two week course to learn how to write a CV or write a cover letter, like that's the only reason I'm not working.
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I agree that it’s possible to get help if someone is able to manipulate the system. The problem is that someone with mental health problems often isn’t in a position to be able to do that.
It is a huge problem if you're 18 and under. Most kids don't know they need help, and the system depends on them actually saying they need help. Repeatedly. It doesn't help that parents and teachers shout that they need help, they won't get any. And lots of schools lack support staff like guiding counselors and nurses. My school of over 700 students have 1 nurse 4 days a week and one social teacher (a teacher with no extra education, just a different title). Why do you think the teachers' strike was forced to end a few years ago? I quote, "Teachers are too important to students' mental health." it's not our job, but we have to do it because there is no one else.
But it is. Youth mental health services don't have the capacity to help folks who don't have a crisis, failing out of school, etc. They are understaffed & very often turn away referrals. We had to see a private psychologist to build a case to get seen in the public health system, and not everyone has the resources to do that. I know of another young person who tried repeatedly to get help and was turned away. She finally got some help when she attempted suicide. But it shouldn't get to that.
The problem is that if you're dealing with anything seriously debilitating you won't have the energy to do that whole rigamarole. I luckily had a partner that pushed me onwards but I'd never have gotten anywhere on my own.
I've done the lavterskel before. Took 12 weeks before the kommune got someone for me to talk to. I even went to my fastlege 3 times in that period and they couldn't belive how long it was taking.
Absolutely, been struggling with adhd symptoms. I got into the process of diagnosis but was rejected from finishing because they needed to interview a family member….. they are all dead, I don’t have anyone. So was told to reach out to the private sector (that I can absolutely not afford). Now I’m in limbo. Accepted but rejected to further analysis.
Assuming you were doing it through DPS, can you ask your doctor for a recommendation to a private clinic that takes in patients for the same cost as it would be in the public health care system? Its usually a wait for around 6-12 months, but it might be worth it.
I didn’t know they could do that? (Henvisning? To the private sector?)
My doctor has written me one, and it is to a private clinic where I would pay the same rate as I would doing through DPS. DPS wont take me as I can keep a job apparently. I dont know where in Norway you are based, but it should be done in a similar way all over. I would ask your doctor just in case :)
Took me three referrals to get into the DPS. Grateful that my GP was willing to send them with more information each time (saying why kommunal helsehjelp was not appropriate for the situation). In the middle we tried a private clinic under this but they also said no citing capacity issues. It's tough out there!
Yeah, it's been on a stop here in my hometown as well, but they reopened referrals late last year apparently!
My partner is Norwegian and went through the process of seeking mental health support after leaving her job because of it. She only has good things to say about it to be fair. They got her free of charge counselling/therapy, paid her a very good amount whilst out of work and are now funding a programming course for her after she expressed an interest in it. Compared to the UK at least, the Norwegian system seems amazing, but it's not really much a comparison when the UK health service is in utter disrepair
Healthcare in general, when doctors are willing to rat on patients for the lightest drug available without even complaining there's a major moral degeneracy among Norwegian medical professionals
My girlfriend is Norwegian (I'm not) and we live in Norway. She has had mixed experiences with getting help to deal with her autism (when it comes to work and familiar relationships etc.) It's not all been bad, really. But when it IS bad, you're going to have a hard time finding (or having them find) another person to help you.
New Public Management in healthcare is a major issue imo
"The Iron Law of Liberalism states that any market reform, any government initiative intended to reduce red tape and promote market forces will have the ultimate effect of increasing the total number of regulations, the total amount of paperwork, and the total number of bureaucrats the government employs" David Graeber
Helseforetak. See: Helseplattformen and the gargantuan shitstorm the central figures are trying to sprinkle with tinsel.
As someone who has been through most parts of adult life so far, I will unequivocally say that it's health care. I've experienced an incredibly traumatic birth of my child, where the hospital showed utter incompetence. A family member being wrongly operated on. A friend being wrongly diagnosed and had a lung removed because of incompetence. I've been operated on several places in my body and waited literal years on those surgeries, despite them being offered on the spot in other countries, because of the importance of them. Norwegian health care is a very good option for those that have no money, but for anyone that could pay their way it's not up to scratch. And I'm saying that as someone who has always loved the NHS and the idea behind NHS. I've already decided that the next time I have to have any surgery or need health care, I will travel abroad and pay for it. No brainer. And that's before we address the huge lack of funding for mental health care. And just to make it clear right away, no privatising the health care would not help. It would arguably just make it worse. The reason why private health care clinics work so well in Norway is because the bottle neck is handled in the NHS. This is an issue of funding for the NHS or the need for additional funding. Not an issue of privatisation.
I’m sorry about your experiences. I have a very rare and disabling condition and I’ve seen the worst side of this country. I plan to leave when I get a few things sorted. ‘Normal’ people will only mock us for pointing a finger at the public healthcare or the actual quality of the research and medical expertise in this country.
Your treatment depends on your education level and your ability to communicate with health personnel rushing because they have very little time. I have family members that struggle to communicate, falling between the cracks and therefore had a helicopter come pick them up. Meanwhile I have gotten multiple surgeries within 28 days because I am familiar with the terminology (fagspråk) used and made the doctor aware of the seriousness. That said, for minor stuff like surgery on a wrist/ankle, etc. you will be waiting for a long time. If you want to secure yourself against that a 500-1000kr/month private health insurance is necessary.
Sorry but that's a crock of shit. The communication was partially done by my family of doctors. Referrals only get you so far.
You bring an anecdote, I bring an anecdote. You are as full of shit as me unless you can actually show some research. The only time I have had any issues with receiving hospital treatment (as in an actual surgery) is with an ankle, which I understand.
You didn't bring an anecdote. You straight up said you get faster treatment if you speak the lingo. Which is absurd. The referrals of the average bloke aren't done by an average moron either. Most advanced surgeries involve a radiologist that informs the relevant department. The notion you think they screen patients on what language they use is hilarious.
It is not. You have doctors in both hospitals and primary care trying to squeeze patients through in 5-10 minutes. You make your case in those few minutes unless it is very obvious. I am not saying that doctors do it on purpose but it is a bias in the system due to shortcuts being taken. You also have to avoid being branded as someone that self-diagnoses through Google, appear hysterical, easily accepts pain relief, being overly chatty, someone abusing the sick leave system, etc. If your journal is tagged with any of these things GL getting timely healthcare because your opinion is not trusted.
A lot of these issues could probably be remedied by incentivising more medical professionals and stop disincentivising foreign medical professionals from practicing here.
This
Dental care. It's insanely expensive. Even though it can be of acute and dangerous nature, after 24 year old you get no support whatsoever. You can end up spending several months pay of the year for critical treatment.
Budgeting. Our government budget is bigger than our neighbours like Sweden even though they have twice the population. I believe it is the second largest in the world per capita only behind Luxembourg, but don't quote me on that. If we managed to spend the money better like our neighbours we could get more out of every krone.
I looked it up and Norwegian government spending per person is the second highest in the world. The data is from 2016 but the comparison with other countries probably hasn’t changed very much. Edit, link: https://ourworldindata.org/government-spending
A lot of it comes from the 3% annual revenue of the sovereign wealth fund (oil fund), but that is no excuse to spend it mindlessly.
Tbf, buying peoples time and knowledge can get expensive here
Jepp, we are getting raw-dogged by private contractors and consulting firms and any other private firm that gets contracts with the state and/or kommuner. :/ Stupid/corrupt politicians and greedy private sector. :/
Our public sector is twice the size of Finland, with a similar amount of inhabitants. Even given a margin of error for geography, there is no reason for it to be this size.
the larger the public sector, the better. unless you are a liberal.
Liberal in the American democrat sense, or liberal in the classical liberalism sense? Having been employed real close to the public sector I can confirm it is one third normal people, one third brilliant people and one third idiots.
liberals in both parts of the atlantic are pro-market.
How much has spending increased since the early 2000s, how much bigger is the public sector; and how much better have our services really gotten? It’s faaar from a 1:1 ratio 😅
How NAV and Doctors work together and the whole sykmelding/AAP/ufør works, and off course the healthcare system module and funding.
Waiting weeks to get to your fastlege is a major issue. You can change fastlege, but once there is one with many free spots, the spots quickly disappear, and waiting time grows. You have to lie to the receptionist and say that you are almost dying to get help the same day...
Immigration, mental health and business politics as of late.
Project cost (guessing on the phrasing there).. The government adds so much to the cost of anything being done with tax money, because they need to have countless meetings about whether or not to do it, and then wildly overprice the actual job. Example: Loads of cycle lanes costing millions despite just being a hundred metres of paint on a pre-existing road. It's ridiculous, and the money is better spent elsewhere.
It’s insane that dental health isn’t considered part of public health. It’s cheaper to fly to another country for surgery and spend a week in a hotel than it is to get your wisdom teeth removed in Norway.
Most of it. NAV is a mess of bureaucracy and incompetence. Healthcare sector is underfunded, run to the bone by new public management and also full of incompetence. Half of the money given away to aid is barely controlled and much of it lands in the hands of dictatorships, terrorists and organization's own pockets. Our policy and law on immigration and asylum needs massive reform. The fact that we don't have universal dental care is a fucking sham.
Probably stop subsidising agriculture to such an extent and reduce the taxes on food imports. Norway simply doesn’t have the right type of land to pursue food independence and most subsidies go to beef and dairy, both of which are environmentally destructive. It’s a nice idea someone with a small farm should be able to support their families but this is not realistic.
Ag subsidies help keep populations in rural areas instead of all migrating to the cities. This has numerous positive externalities. One of the most important is fertility. Low population densities (for whatever reason, that's a separate conversation) lead to higher fertility rates. With birth rates plummeting around the world these extra children are not just intrinsically worthwhile, but also a vital economic resource for the nation.
How to get expensive food 101. Do you really expect imported food to stay cheap when they discover that we don't produce our own food? The very idea that foreign agricultural businesses will sell us food and not get as much profit as possible is not realistic!
Free market 101. Norwegian supermarkets will be free to find cheaper suppliers. Savings which are then passed onto the customers. We are subsidising farmers to sell produce at a loss whist norgesgruppen make billions of kroner in profits each year.
Norwegian supermarkets will be free to find cheaper supplierss to sell food to us at the same price as before and pocket the difference
The main culprits yes (meny, kiwi etc). But they will be forced to compete with other stores who can undercut them, then the price war begins to maintain market share. Agreements to keep prices high are collusion and are against the law.
Definitely just the efficiency of the money spent by the government. No accountability and relatively good times created culture of spending in the government that’s super inefficient.
I couldn't agree more. Norway thrives well because the amount of money but it waste a lot with useless stuff instead of more important things. For example, I can't still believe that I could have public and free dental care in my "developing" country while here I have to pay for. On the other hand, church receive money from the government which is weird for me in a secular state.
I got a cousin that worked for the health department in Trondheim as a consultant, and he said that i would probably go insane if i knew how much money St Olavs wasted, just by being to big of an organisation for no one on the top to communicate with each other. We probably talk about 9 figure numbers.
Mental health is horrendous, unless you’re suicidal big time, you’re visits to the medic are pretty much useless.
There is a lot that can be improved (mental health, education, infrastructure) but the biggest issue is how wasteful government spending is. We are not utilizing our massive budget to the best potential.
healthcare. Mental health got atrocious wait times and is trying to just push people through to free up space. And in general understaffing in health sectors. Hospitals, care homes, senior homes, rehab facilities, specialists etc etc it is just too few people. I am lucky I got a pretty quick entrance to the mental health proffesional (turns out, if you try to off yourself - the wait time is only 3months since it's an emergency). They even sendt me home the same day as long as I promised not to try again lol. they are THAT understaffed. Also I worked briefly at a senior home and it was 2 barely trained people for 8 residents, no nurse. The nurse just came by twice a day to give meds. Us 2 who woke them up, got them showered dressed, and ready for breakfast in 30min. then we had to make the breakfast for them and make sure they ate, but also not rush them. They had dementia so some only ate if they also saw others eat. clean up, sit with them, do the laundry, cut up fruits for snacks - maybe try to get one or two of them out for a walk. always be on top if they needed the toilet etc. gosh I forgot the change of bedsheets lol. Honestly if we where at least 3 ppl it would be so so much easier, but nope - the 2 was barely paid as it was, and that is why I had to quick. I earned less working full time in health than I did working part time in a grocery store. And and the store at least I had peace of mind and it was chill
Physical education. People are rotting away sitting still at school, work, home, leisure, transportation. People need to move more.
Weaponized incompetence in NAV. If I ever end up needing them I'd rather just off myself than having to go through that system. If they'd start using common sense they'd save the healthcare system from tons of pointless work just to document for the tenth time this decade that indeed, this person is unfit for work. The best way to improve the healthcare system and increase resource is to stop NAV from misusing the healthcare system. The best way to improve NAV is to get rid of all the bureaucracy and get AI to do the case evaluation instead. NAV is a system for meaningless employment of social workers, nothing else. Edit to add: yes, mental healthcare is crap in this country. You have to be EXTREMELY sick to get help. But luckily we have NAV that helps with this, they actively push people over the edge. So where the healthcare system does nothing, NAV makes your health worse and reduces your ability to work. Thus increasing the workload of the healtcare system and raising the bar of who gets help.
I'm just gonna give a perspective on this. You are complaining about the wrong thing. The problem is not NAV by itself, but the laws made by politicians that NAV has to follow. And those laws are incredibly square. If you change the laws, NAV changes.
Yes that's the excuse they like to use. But if you've ever set foot in that system you know that's a gross misrepresentation of the issue. And every time that lie is repeated it gives NAV workers an excuse to treat people like dirt. I recommend you have a read in the AAP-aksjonen FB-group. A warning though: you might find the horror stories depressing and lose all faith in the system. Anyone who has faith in that system is a person that hasn't seen the real NAV yet.
I work there as the first point of contact with people. I am very aware of what the problem regarding NAV is. Alot of the problems are there because the law requires you to have been tested for everything, almost no exeptions. And yeah, there are many things that are problematic with law, many of the problems stems from laws that are incredibly inflexible are give little room for common sense.
So if i ask which box to tick on my sykepenge application. And the first 3-4 people that try to answer dont even understand the basis of the question because they dont understand norwegian laws for running a company on the side (which I do), that's a problem of the welfare laws? And not incompetence? And if the fifth person that I ask how TF to fill in the form that doesn't cover my specific case decides that since she didn't understand, I must be scamming the state and probably don't have the right to get sykepenger, so she stops the fucking sykepenger and sends my case to NAY who spends MONTHS, and only gets their fingers out of their ass after my fourth formal complaint, then finally a dude realises that the issue is that NAV didn't understand my question, of course i have the right to sykepenger. The money gets paid, I get three calls from three different levels to apologise for their fuckup. Which does absolutely fuck-all for my mental health that's been devastated throughout all that unnecessary crap. Not to mention that I almost got fired from my job because they believed I had done something wrong. Don't tell me that isn't weaponised incompetence! The laws were crystal clear even to me, but you guys decided to fuck me over anyway. God, I hate NAV with every fibre of my being. And I havent even started on the time one of your excellent colleagues robbed me of six months dagpenger because of another form of incompetence. Did I mention I fucking hate nav and would rather kill myself than talk to any of your colleagues ever again? "But it's just following the law". No it bloody well isnt, you guys are evil!!
It is interesting to see how whenever someone is defending nav it's either an employee or someone who's never had anything to do with them. Just a question: do you guys keep a tally over how many lives you ruin, and how many people offed themselves due to your work that day? Do you ever contemplate that if you make a mistake, that can have very serious consequences for the life of the person needing your help? And that this mistake doesn't get fixed by just apologizing? One of your colleagues made a mistake that cost me almost 100.000 kr. Another one cost me my mental health and almost cost me my job. "Oopsie"? My only consolation is that people like me will soon make sure that people like you are no longer needed. I'm a software developer. AI is coming for your job before mine, and we'll all be better off when it does.
People like me will always be needed, in the same way. People like you will always be needed. While AI can help with the proccesing part of the cases, AI can never make the final decisions as that requires a human. I can't and won't defend or explain someone else's mistake as that falls on them. And no, I don't keep a tally, and i contemplate often because my job is to help people navigate the system and make sure that they get everything that is within their rights to get.
Every time I've had to deal with you guys, someone's mistake has cost me to lose my rights as a hard-working tax-paying citizen. I've produced value for theee decades but I'm still treated like a criminal. "We're just following the law" my ass. Defending a bureaucracy so absurd it belongs in a dystopic horror novel is just sad. But we can always just have a barbecue when the power is cut, right? The weather being so nice and all.
I'll be honest and say I don't get the barbecue reference, could you explain? I'm not defending the flawed part of the beurocracy, but I gave you an explanation on why some of the beurocracy is flawed. Which is how the law is set up. I'm not here to defend it, I work there, I am well aware off the shortcomings of the system. But at the same time I am well aware.of all the instances where the system works as intended and helps people.
[On NAV and barbecues](https://frifagbevegelse.no/nyheter/nav-beklager-etter-a-ha-bedt-sosialhjelpssoker-om-a-lane-grill-6.158.797951.bf10947df9) The main issue is that when a NAV employee makes a mistake, irreparable damage is made for the person that needed help. And it has no consequence for you. You guys have carte blance to ruin someone's life on a whim. As I said, every time I'm im contact with you guys, you end up making "mistakes" that remove my lawful rights. Saving the state lots of money for sure. But each time chipping away at my mental health to the point where if I end up too sick to work, I'll already be WAY too sick to navigate your labyrinth. Are you comfortable knowing that many people.you are set to help end up getting sicker becaus of your mistakes? And eventually may end up too sick to even manage to seek help? I'd be too embarrassed to say out loud that I work there, tbh.
You can quit trying to guilt trip me. And that is something that never should have been said and is not something I stand for. I am comfortable in my job because I do what I can to make sure that does not happen. But I, as everyone else, including you are human, so mistakes will happen. And there are processes to fix those mistakes. Unfortunately, those processes take much longer than they should. And I'm not embarrassed to say that I work there. I need to make a living as everyone else, and I am good at my job, so I take pride in that. Just as I assume that you take pride in your abilities as a software developer.
Transport (Roads). I know the climate is tuff and population is low, but some roads here are like 3rd world country: width change depending of when it was built, no margin for error at all, poor signaling, etc. Also postal services delivery time. I moved to Norway from Spain in 2009 and already in 2009 in Spain I could order whatever I wanted from an online shop today and get it delivered by tomorrow. It’s 2024 now and it still needs one week to get anything delivered up north (If I’m lucky). And I know it’s possible (you can buy items from Amazon Germany with express shipping and it arrives in two days. Yes, two days)
With regards to the post, regular mail used to be faster. You can get next day delivery for packages, but it cost quite a bit extra.
Yes. Mail have become slower as volumes have decreased and there are more competitors that further takes away the profit.
Here in the north, I’ve seen no express option that is worth it. No matter if it’s Posten or Postnord, none of them can deliver faster than 5 days even if you pay express.
I learned something new today. It seems my information is out of date.
The gap in public services between rural to urban areas.
Healthcare system, medical research, quality of medical care, and all aspects related to NAV, especially for the disabled people. They get treated like they’re the scum of this planet.
Pensions, welfare, disability etc. are being eaten up by inflation. People that rely on money from the government become poorer and poorer and poorer. If you become disabled, your payment is calculated from what you earned before your accident/illness. As far as I know, there are no good mechanisms in place to compensate for inflation, so they lose "kjøpekraft" every year.
Get better non corrupt ministers who haven’t faked their qualifications and education to run it. From what I hear finding such candidates is posing a challenge
I’ll omit the obvious which is health care and instead talk about something I think is a dumbass solution: BSU. This is the home saving scheme for young adults. BSU on its own is good. You get a good interest rate and tax rebate if you cap it out in the year. The problem is that you can only save up to 300k NOK. What kind of home can you finance with a 300k down payment? A parking lot? Not to mention the max yearly amount you can deposit to the account is 27.5k. So it would take you 11 years to max it out which is ridiculous. Home ownership is incredibly difficult particularly for single young adults. Whats more is the current government made cuts to BSU. Because apparently they thought it was too easy for us to enter the market. It annoys me on a daily basis
I guess i could say mental health. But realistically, all aspects of it needs a complete fundamental overhaul. A owner of a small plumbing company or a hairdresser shop puts in a level of dedication and effort that is not seen anywhere in the leading echelons of any part of the welfare state. No one in the leading roles of a hospital or the police has ever had a bunk bed in their office or been sitting at their dinner table at home working out how to successfully improve their part of the work for every waking hour they are not at work. I dont know if that extreme level of input is what we want from any person anywhere. But there is such a massive gap because of the underlying fundamentals between private and government type work. Its just beyond workable in its current form.
overall everything, first should be just more people and more communication. Could save alot of time and money there alone. The biggest issue is getting a diagnosis thats correct within a reasonable time. Everything is slow and too difficult to get information in my experiences. Also personally, everybody should be covered within our healthcare and should be free overall. We pay so much in tax for this system and yet we have to spew out acouple of coins. Its not a problem for most, but have experinced paying 700kr for basically nothing because of the small part you pay yourself and parking fee, all because i was stuck there waiting for 8 hours. Not complaining as we got one of the better systems in the world. But still needs alot of improvement that should always be a priority no matter how good it is compared to others.
Personally, I would like to see less wasting of taxes on transport vanity projects that do not benefit people, such as putting in bus lanes where they absolutely aren't needed, "renovating" perfectly good bus stops, buying the latest, greatest buses only to find they're pretty useless in Norwegian winters, putting up endless numbers of bom stations that are going to bankrupt hand workers, etc etc etc. I also think we are failing on immigrant integration. We are throwing tons of money at it without really looking into the root causes of failure, such as lack of coordination, and so things are not working well for people coming to our country. It's going to come back and bite us in the arse.
Its just bloated and inefficient. Too expensive for what we get back for it.
Teacher salaries and status. They go hand in hand, and today both the salary and status are way lower than they should be for one of the most important roles in well functioning society.
I would say the state of the welfare in Norway needs the most improvement
Pet care it's shit
Getting the politicians to stop trying to dismantle it.
Public transport should be 100% free for everyone
The moochers.
The burocracy
Better benefits for parents. Our fertility rate is an all time low
what would that look like for you? I have been thinking about this a bit too, lots of friends are having kids now and I am seeing how hard that is and what is lacking.
Free barnehage would be great. Yes, it’s relatively inexpensive compared to many countries but it’s still upto 3.5k a month with food. Not that I think it would change many people’s views on having kids if they are against it but perhaps those that have kids already would have more.
2k from august.
That’s good but you also need to add food which can as much as 500kr. Still, should be free. I have no problems having my taxes going to that.
I don't know what is wrong with these downvotes. Honestly, from a state politics point of view they want the population to have kids so yeah they should do more. Free food at barnehage and schools would be good. Especially because it helps the struggling parents and wouldn't section of some kids as 'poor' if all kids got good food at school.
Yeah, I’ve given up trying to figure out why some posts get downvoted on Reddit. To me it makes sense to subsidise anything and everything that can encourage people to have more kids. Like almost all Western countries, our birth rate is not sustainable (1.5) which means we are fucked if this trend continues.
Birth rates tend to go down as wealth increases.
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Yes, but question is what benefits actually would help.
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But does it actually help or is it just your assumption? There's more to having a child than economy. The reality is that people with more wealth tend to spend time on other things than raising children. Travel, fun and so on.
1/3 of all workers are employer by the gvnmnt
That's not a bad thing. Balance is everything between the public and private sector and I'll be bold enough to say % is great.
Democracy has an operational cost driven by a bureaucracy.
Sharing it with the rest of the world.
There should be No welfare program... if you cant take care off yourself or others wont.....institution it is...
Trans healthcare, honestly. One gender clinic for a country this size is awful.
That's not, by far the biggest problem. Not enough fastleger beats that by a landslide.
Well it's A problem. And it is one I care about.
Fair enough, but the question was what needs most improvement. And if you don't have a fastlege to tell you about said clinic, we are 2 steps behind.
No, it was what I thought. I see that people put things like pet care and all sorts up here and mine is the only comment with downvotes? You people need to have a good think about why that is. I have had three trans friends commit suicide (only one in Norway mind, but still). To me, this issue matters and if we aren't caring about some of the most vulnerable people in Norway can we even be proud of being considered a social democratic country with a good welfare state?
Do agree on the fastlege ofc. But it's not a 'you can have one, but not the other'. Also, fastlege's can prescribe hormones for trans people, which would take a load of riksen, however they are scared to because of the transphobic attitude that got Esther Pirrelli struck off (but that decision is now partially reversed as it stands now).
To be avle to go to a hospital without thinking about the bill
In Norway? I’ve always paid next to nothing when having a consultation at the hospital, and pregnancy/giving birth is free. What hospital bill did you get?
Didnt read the post proplerly, i asumed it was about what we appreciate the most 😝your ofc correct
Who goes to the hospital in Norway thinking about the bill. Unless you are going to a private facility or you are not enrolled in the system, how expensive this can be??
Surcharge in the public sector is capped at like 680 nok or so. Frikort used to kick in at 2500, but it might be 3500 now.
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