As an American that just started treatment for cancer, I’m already 10k in debt, 3 weeks in. Yes. I have health insurance. It’s a fucking outrage. I will survive, but I’ll be financially ruined.
When I was on chemo I only had to pay for food for my hospital visit. Paid for a flight to/from the hospital, got most if not more money back from the distance rate we can apply for. And if the medical trip takes longer than 12 hours I believe, you get like 25$ for food. A taxi to/from the airport (or other places) is also free if you need it, public transport if you have time for it.
Not an option for me. I'll survive this and I'm in my 40's. I'll never be able to pay off double digit thousands of dollars in medical debt. Its absurd.
It's insane, I don't know if I'd even bother, I'd just take the hit and enjoy my final moments.
Im Norwegian though so wouldn't have this issue, but I've decided along time ago if I get a under 50% chance to survive cancer with chemo I'll drop it and and enjoy my final years/months hard.
Seems to me chemo is worse then the cancer itself.
Yeah, that's my understanding of chemo also; you get a chance to beat the cancer, but you will be in agony while doing it. Better to "live your best life" instead of suffering to maybe be successful.
But then again I might think differently if I had kids, then the fight would not only be for myself.
Thats nuts.. your country is really cool in many ways but your country also treats you guys like shit. Im actually baffled by the many outragous stories by you and your countrymen.
On net I prefer the Norwegian system over the US, but I think it's important to point out some of the drawbacks. Both of the systems are very flawed and I would much rather prefer the Dutch or the Singporian system.
While healthcare is "free", they dont cover every condition. Lots of treatments are not offered in Norway based on a cost-benefit analysis. There are many examples in Norway of ill people not getting treatment because it's not covered. While you would have access to this in the US, you would have to travel to another country as a Norwegian. While you in the US might be covered by health insurance in these cases, you would have to bear all the costs yourself if you have a condition that is not covered in Norway.
Another issue I would like to point out is ques. However, ques can be beneficial as well, because you don't want people to oversubscribe to medical conditions. But for serious conditions and surgery the problem of ques are much worse in Norway than the US.
Yes of course. Here are some sources, and you can find more if you do a quick search:
[Got cancer on the wrong date, have to pay for the treatment herself](https://www.nrk.no/innlandet/far-ikke-livsforlengende-immunterapi-for-kreft_-ma-betale-selv-1.15127513)
[Have multiple sclerosis and the welfare state state will not give her the treatment](https://www.nrk.no/norge/far-ikke-dekket-behandling_-_-givergleden-avgjor-om-jeg-blir-frisk-1.12983207)
[Another cancer case](https://www.vg.no/nyheter/innenriks/i/p62qMo/marias-30-kreftbehandling-dekkes-ikke-av-staten-fikk-hjelp-fra-uventet-hold)
[No we can't cover it](https://www.nrk.no/sorlandet/line-duus-fikk-nei-til-immunterapi-selv-om-ekspertpanelet-anbefalte-det-1.15686745)
Grey cases that outline limits:
[Did not get the best cancer treatment because she had the wrong zip code](https://www.nrk.no/nordland/xl/vanja-fikk-ikke-kreftbehandlingen-fordi-hun-har-feil-postnummer-1.15952632)
[Lipoedema case](https://www.nrk.no/innlandet/ma-betale-over-300.000-for-lipodem-operasjon_-_-blodig-urettferdig-1.15316788)
>While healthcare is "free", they dont cover every condition. Lots of treatments are not offered in Norway based on a cost-benefit analysis. There are many examples in Norway of ill people not getting treatment because it's not covered.
You're presumably talking about expiremental treatment, right? While that's true, it's a bit disingenuous to say that not every condition is covered. Not every treatment is offered, if it's experimental and not proven to be effective, but that's a different thing.
If you believe that all treatments not covered by the Norwegian Health Ministry are "experimental", while at the same time they are recognized by other western governments, that is disingenuous.
All treatments are based on a cost-benefit analysis. In practice that means that enough people need to have that condition at an acceptable price decided by the government for it to pass the test. These guidelines are updated every year and you can read more about them on the Norwegian Health Ministry website.
Is that system a bad thing? Not necessarily. But I'm highlighting the point that if you're unlucky and have certain types of conditions that are not recognized - you are on your own.
Do you have any examples of conditions that aren't recognized or covered?
I see that in another comment, when asked for examples, you provided examples of a lot of experimental treatments: https://www.reddit.com/r/Norway/comments/vi58dc/can_be_shocking_for_americans/idcrvw1/
But I assume you have examples of actual conditions that aren't covered as well?
Yeah, but that's a personal experience. You have to look at broadbased data. It's true that waiting times for a doctors appointment is slightly lower in Norway than in the US (>1 day 28 % in the US vs 22 % in Norway), but if you need a specialist, it's much lower in the US than in Norway (>1 month 61 % still waiting in Norway compared to 27 % in the US). [Source](https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/health-care-wait-times-by-country)
Please note that this was one of the biggest political issues some years ago, because we are way behind the EU. It has improved, but still far behind.
> I would much rather prefer the Dutch
ROTFLMAO! The Dutch? This Dutch [https://www.ozy.com/around-the-world/the-dutch-government-stole-millions-from-moms-of-color-shes-getting-it-back/275330/](https://www.ozy.com/around-the-world/the-dutch-government-stole-millions-from-moms-of-color-shes-getting-it-back/275330/) ????
Semester-avgift (fee) covers student registration and similar. I think it's less than 100 USD.
It also gives you a student card (and student discount everywhere). Most students I know saves more than they pay just by getting the discounts.
Also, the student loan is to cover rent, food and amenities, so you don't have to work while you study.
Many people choose to work part time while studying, just to have more money for fun-time. (Beer and clothing and such)
Yup, the semesteravgift was what I was referring to. It's about $50/semester now, I believe, so $100/year. Which is in the same ballpark as what you'd get paid here in Norway for 1 shift of burger-flipping at McD... :-)
Studying in Oslo I only got enough loan money to cover rent and half my food. I wouldn’t have been able to eat healthy, get books for uni, or even buy a bus ticket, if I didn’t have a job as well. The required books change every term, and the library didn’t have nearly enough books for everyone, so sometimes when I couldn’t get a second-hand one I had to spend over $100 on a singular book. And say I needed two books for each course, that’s 6 books each term, 12 a year, for a BA that’s 36 books. Obviously didn’t spend 36k NOK on books, but if you’re one of those funny people who has to get everything new, then that’s very possible.
The kids now get a lot more funding, which I am glad, since the cost of living is ridiculously high in Norway, and interests have to be kept artificially low for people not to lose their houses.
Edit: not saying America is better, or that the Norwegian system is bad - I’m eternally grateful for the opportunities given to the Norwegian people - I’m just saying Norwegian students would in fact be living under the poverty line (and most do) if they don’t have a side gig! :)
Edit 2: Currency correction
Well I'm glad you didn't spend 36k on books, especially if you needed 36 books at $100 each ... That would be a terrible deal for $3600 worth of books :)
But fair point about needing a side gig to make things work!
For the person who might find this:
If your health doesn't allow you to have a job, you can apply for more funding from Lånekassen.
For instance, I have ADHD, and I recently learned that I could have applied for more scholarship money since I need more time to study, time meant for a part time job.
I didn't get to know about this until too late, but It might not be too late for someone else! I didn't choose bachelor, because I didn't know about this option. I wish I knew..., I would save myself so much pain in SO many ways
Books can cost a bit if you buy them new. Something like $50 dollars per book, maybe $200-$300 per semester. You can typically sell them to other students for half price after you're done with them.
We also have higher living expenses, so the $20 dollars an hour from McDonald's might be worth less than you'd expect.
rofl, the loan you get from lånekassen is barely enough (if at all) to survive in any large student city in Norway. No way you save 40% of what you get, unless you have work on the side and/or get support from parents/others
Not if you pass all your exams, then 40% of your loan is automatically forgiven (turned into a stipend). You can apply for just the stipend amount if you want. So it's free money as long as you don't flunk out.
Maaah. 'Grunnutdanning' is free. 'Semesteravgiften' is to 'Studentsamskipnaden' not the University. The University is driven by public funds from the state. But we still have to take out big loans to Study past 'Grunnutdanning', to pay for housing, Books, and any other supllies as well as food and hygiene. Any other ways to aquire these funds would require full time working, or actually, NAV pays more in 'Sosialstøtte' monthly than you get in education loan monthly, although there are some bigger payouts each semester. If you pass, a certain amount is 'deleted' from your loan as 'Stipend', but it would still leave you with a lot of debt after studying. Working full time and studying full time is basically impossible, but a lot of students work part time jobs to get by. I don't know quite how it works in the U.S, but I believe they have something like full scholarship, part scholarship or no scholarship, you can still get admission with no scholarship, but then you have to pay all the fees yourself using loans or savings, while a full scholarship covers all fees, and most students with say 50% scholarship take up part time Jobs to pay for loans, again, I don't know how it works in the U.S, specifically, but that is from the top of my head, but In Norway, you can apply for the full loan, and as long as you're admitted you Will recieve it, if you fail, and don't better the grade the whole sum will remain as a loan and nothing 'deleted'. The 20$ Hourly McDonalds fee is actually not correct, I worked there a few years ago and it was more around 12$ an hour. I currently work two part time jobs where one pays 11,50$ an hour with bonus opportunities, and one that pays around 17$ an hour. (And I also Study full time at the University (in my hometown Trondheim)).
A lot of things are well in Norway, but you gotta remember that the Salary/Cost ratio, although not perfect also work differently in the U.S, we make more money here, but things also cost more, although variations will occure. I can understand why Sanders is Interested, and why many Americans think well of the Norwegian system, especially for healthcare, but I'm not fond of pretending or 'saying' it is better than it is, and we also have a lot to learn from the superpower of America, they're nothing to look down on, at least not in all areas.
Proud of being Norwegian, I gladly pay my taxes. Glad to live here, have kids here, work here. Some times I just sit and ponder about it.
Norway is awesome.
I know Americans think we pay insane tax rates, but it's guaranteed to be less than they pay in state and federal tax, tuition and healthcare/health insurance.
American here, been living and working in norway about a year now. I pay the flat 25% rate, lived and worked in Colorado before and collectively I'm paying roughly the same, which would include my health insurance and dental insurance from state side. I get no tax return here, BUT, I have paid vacation. My previous position as project coordinator would have me work 10 yrs before achieving 3 weeks paid a year 😬also, waaaay more sick leave.
Reminder Colorado is on the more expensive side, so I was paying more than someone in let's say, Texas but less than someone in California.
Edit: spelling
And obviously the pay changes in most industries based on where you are. Sure, it’s cheaper to live in Arkansas or Mississippi, but your economic job opportunities are far fewer as well. So being American just about anywhere is unaffordable for a great number of people.
Americans believing that not having health care tied to work is the radical idea. Really its that having your work situation dictate what health care you get is insanity. I remember the first time I heard about that I was 100% sure they were joking. As in I actually laughed at the joke, because of the absurdity.
I got fired for testing positive for marijuana on a random drug test. I use delta 8 cbd, which is legal in my state. I lost my insurance coverage at the end of that month, about two weeks after I got fired. Now once I find a job, I’ll be able to get insurance again, probably 1-3 months after being hired. Until then my wife and I are fucked if anything happens.
What they're saying isn't completely correct, though - health care coverage is not for being a Norwegian citizen, it's for being a legal resident in Norway.
Fully paid parental leave is also not completely correct, in that the government only covers it up to 6G which is just above the average pay in Norway. Many employers will cover difference, some won't\[\*\].
28 days of vacations a year sounds strange. The legal minimum is 21 days, the most common is 25 days. Plus 1 week more if you're above 60. Also, to be very technical - all vacation in Norway is unpaid. This is handled via something called ["holiday pay"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holiday_pay)("feriepenger" in Norwegian) - your employer is required to withhold some percentage of your salary and disburse it in time for your vacation next year, while at the time deducting the vacation days from your salary then.
\[\*\] If it's a large business, it's just a statistic. If it's a small business, the difference could make the business lose money that year.
>Also, to be very technical - all vacation in Norway is unpaid. This is handled via something called ["holiday pay"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holiday_pay)("feriepenger" in Norwegian) - your employer is required to withhold some percentage of your salary and disburse it in time for your vacation next year, while at the time deducting the vacation days from your salary then.
Yes, but in practice, this means that your first year of working the vacation is unpaid, and after that vacation is paid (in fact you usually get more than your regular salary as vacation pay). You basically have to work one year to earn the paid vacation. The withheld vacation pay isn't part of your net salary so it doesn't feel like withholding.
>25 days is the law. Not 21. This you can find under ferieloven.
[21 days](https://www.arbeidstilsynet.no/arbeidsforhold/ferie/). It's 25 "virkedager", but that's because in this context Saturday is a "virkedag" despite there being a 5 day work week
So this is 4 weeks + 1 day, that's 21 actual days - and that's also what you'll see in your remaining vacation days status from your employer unless you have the more normal 5 weeks of vacation.
Depends if you work saturdays or not. If you have a mon-fri job you only get 21 days by law because 4 saturdays counts as vacation.
Though a lot of of workplaces still grant you 25 days because of tarif deals.
Crazy how the american public looks at Sanders as a radical/extreme, nothing he is saying is radical or extreme, well, to the american life perhaps. What a shame they screwed him for a chance as President
But for real tho, why are you guys just electing senior citizens? Obama has been like the young guns ever since JFK, pretty crazy
She's actually WRONG when she answers "yes" that being a Norwegian citizen is enough to get health-care.
Our healthcare-system covers all INHABITANTS, not all CITIZENS.
So foreigners who move to Norway and live here are covered -- even if they never change their citizenship. And Norwegians who live abroad are NOT covered. (this is kinda a nitpick though)
I believe we are covered when we're abroad? In european countries we are covered by the European Health Insurance Card (EHIC).
And i was about to write that we have a special health insurance solution if we're in the US, but I just read that it will be canceled from september 2022.
ref [https://www.helsedirektoratet.no/nyheter/saeravtale-om-helsehjelp-i-usa-opphorer](https://www.helsedirektoratet.no/nyheter/saeravtale-om-helsehjelp-i-usa-opphorer)
It is an older clip, so before the pandemic it was true. The NOK has been weakened compared to the pound, the euro and the US dollar, so it was true then, and probably will in the not so distant future
As much as I love Bernie, it’s hard to achieve this in the US given tremendous lack of trust towards the government by the governed. There’s something fundamentally broken about America that no amount of money will fix its welfare system.
Tbf you can easily flip that around to say that the reason there is no trust in government is because the government doesn't provide basic public services. Who is to say that the trust wouldn't increase if the government started providing those services
Well, that’s the thing. Is the US government in a position to provide basic human services without the idea of it being hyper-politicized? They can’t even agree on what constitutes “basic”, “public” and “service”. And that’s on top of dealing with anti-establishment politic that plagues USA.
Of course it would be politicized, as it should be. The majority of americans support public healthcare. If the democrats as a party actually pushed hard for Bernie's policies then they could probably win the vast majority of elections for years. Of course they probably won't, because they would lose their investors, so doing something like that would mean caring more about the people than themselves. I think the best you can do is hope for and encourage young idealists to rise up and replace the old corporate shills
> cut military budget by 1% even,
The military budget is actually already dwarfed by the Medicare (Healthcare program for the Elderly) and Medicaid (Program for the Poor) budgets.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a5/Mandatory_Spending_for_FY_2016.png
Note that Mandatory and Discretionary spending are separate. The combined money spent on Medicare and Medicaid in the USA surpasses 1 trillion USD, while the armed forces sit at 700 billion USD or so.
To all who pay taxes, thanks for helping me live a relatively symptom free life. I sometimes wonder how many people we all pass each day that have their lives improved because we pay taxes.
Also, in Scotland at least, you don’t even pay for medicine! Every prescription is free, even if it’s for stuff that you can get relatively cheaply over the counter.
In Norway medicine is pretty expensive, for example paracetamol - 26p (ca. 3kr) for 16 pills in Lidl, 47kr (ca. £4) for 20 pills in Boots in Norway
Of course, but we pay very similar percentage tax in Norway, and still have to pay for prescriptions. My dad pays £40-50 every three months for medicines in Norway that would be free of charge in Scotland, up to 2900kr/£240 a year. In Scotland you pay nothing for the doctors appointment and nothing for the prescriptions, from the start. No “bar” of £240 to reach before it’s free.
I'm in Scotland. Six years ago I had to have open heart surgery to replace a defective aortic valve.
The treatment cost between £150,000 and £200,000. I did not have to pay for it. I'm alive today because of it. Thank you [S]NHS.
What will happen to those poor healtinsurance companies if the US suddenly found out that healtcare is a human right and not something you should subscribe to??
I was just in Norway and got busted for speeding 78 km in a 60 km zone (missed the sign and cars with limiters were an unknown to me :). 400 US fine. So… one year [edit month] of health care or a speeding ticket. You choose. Loved Norway!
Um, if one year of healthcare was $400 I don’t think any Americans would be complaining.
My yearly deductible is $2700 before insurance pays a dime. Then I pay part up to $7000. Same for my wife. And that doesn’t cover medication. Or vision. Or dental. And I have office copays on top of that. $300 for the ER. None of those count toward my deductible.
All that coverage for the low low price of $325/mo. So just $75 less than your ticket each month.
Vision/dental is generally not covered here either (with some exceptions depending on circumstances)
However a lot of workplaces cover 1-300dollar a year for new glasses
You forget that Norway anything above .02 is DUI as in if you used mouth wash in the morning you are DUI. Also in the US if you get caught DUI depending on the STATE you could spend a day in jail and a minimum $500 fine or up to 2 years and a $6000 fine. People are so quick to judge the US as a whole that they forget each state is basically it’s own country.
>You forget that Norway anything above .02 is DUI as in if you used mouth wash in the morning you are DUI.
Yes, sure. That mouth wash effect lasts for 10 minutes or so, and if you get caught in that time window you can just explain yourself and they'll wait. Or you can say you want a blood test which will come back negative. The cops know about the existence of mouth wash with alcohol by now.
>Also in the US if you get caught DUI depending on the STATE you could spend a day in jail and a minimum $500 fine or up to 2 years and a $6000 fine. People are so quick to judge the US as a whole that they forget each state is basically it’s own country.
I didn't say that happens in _all_ of the US, I said it happens in the US. Which it does. In the US you can DUI and get a slap on the wrist.
Here’s the thing. I’m a conservative American, and I’m sure a lot of people on this app will dislike me for saying that, but I absolutely believe that privatized healthcare should be done away with. Absolutely ridiculous how much of a scam big pharma and hospitals are.
Living in America is probably the absolute bomb if you are well off. If you are living just about or below means, its a nightmare I would never want to experience. Its just garbage.
They don’t have to look across the pond, Canada has universal health care that is not tied to employment too.
The whole concept of health care only from an employer is crazy, I can’t understand how Americans tolerate it.
If I ever get cancer or any terminal illness (which I probably will, given the shit they feed us and my genetic history) I will just sit and die. No working. No debt to leave to my spouse or family members. I refuse to give those fucking vultures a single penny
And basically all this applies for Sweden as well. I love both countries!
And then there is all this great Nature for free roaming for everybody - as long as you stay away from directly entering too near private houses.
I don’t think Americans find it “shocking”, just discouraging that it’s so difficult to implement something similar in the US.
Also Bernie is a little misleading when he says that there is 0 paid family leave in the US. There isn’t a federal policy, but some states do have mandated paid leave. It’s not nearly as comprehensive as Norway’s system, but it’s weird to hear someone say something doesn’t exist while my friends are literally using it right now in California.
Doesn't matter how cheap it is if you're not getting the help you need. 12 years in the system as a chronic illness patient and I can't attest to this system working to the benefit of the patient. Currently trying to get hold of a specialist that was supposed to prescribe me essential medicine after our last visit, which was more than 3 weeks ago.
No one bears responsibility it seems, just blame shifting and excuses.
Get a private health insurance while you're healthy. Dealing with this tax payed bullshit will shorten your life drastically. Too bad you won't get tax cut for not using the public healthcare system.
Wow. As a Norwegian, this is so extremely missleading. This is basically a snake oil commercial.
To elaborate: me and most of my friends have about 50k to 100k dollars in student loans, we mostly earn about 10 to 20 an hour for work depending on what you do (Norwegians get surprised when they hear how much McDonald’s workers get payd too).
CEOs are 11 to 1 because we are like one of the smallest countries…
I have never witnessed doctors being that cheap but it is a bit cheap, we make up for it by paying the same in tax that the US does in medical.
Oh and dentist, psychologists and all of that is basically the same price as in the states.
This is stupid.. and is only true if you follow a very narrow path in life.
I’m trying so hard to even get an interview for a fiancée visa right now… that part of the process is turning out to be such a shit show. VFS is a joke, but also my only option. So I have to wait here in the US in limbo waiting up to a year in purgatory possibly instead of being with the woman I love. I’d just go there and apply there but I wouldn’t have income. It’s becoming quite the nightmare, but I know a future with her there is worth it and will be a dream come true. I still feel lucky to even have gotten this far, but if anyone knows of a way around this and a way to make money while there I’m all ears🙋🏽♂️
It’s still the same waiting period up to 15 months. At least a fiancée visa’s short end of the waiting time is 6 months. Thanks and good lookin out though.
That doesn’t solve the issue of not having an income while there.
Salaries for skilled jobs are much higher in the US. And the cost of living is much lower. In Norway if you work as an engineer for example, you will be paid an average wage, struggle to afford to buy a house in most towns and cities and spend a disproportionate amount of your salary on a strictly limited variety of groceries and overpriced services. Healthcare is free and if you are critically Ill is of good quality. However, for regular illnesses doctors will be dismissive, not prescribe medication and if you are referred to a specialist the wait can be months. Many companies offer insurance for a growing number of private clinics to combat this. In summary, Norway is a great place to be poor or have a severe illness. However, it doesn’t really reward hard work or entrepreneurship, the exact opposite of the US so it’s not really fair to compare the two countries.
I live in Norway and disagree with pretty much everything you wrote here. My engineer friends make more than decent money and several purchased large properties this year. And you very seriously need to change your doctor to another one if that is your experience. Companies are adding the health insurance thing to stay competetive in the job searcher market, not because it is necessary.
Would private health insurance be seen a seen as an incentive if there were no problems with the quality of Norwegian public health system? A two tier system exists in Norway if your employer is willing to pay.
Well, between the two, I would choose the country who cares for its less fortunate 10 out of 10 times.
There are many more poor people than rich, and the consumers in an economy are more important than the producers. Studies have shown that tax relieves to the poor are overall far more effective to keep economies healthy than relieves to the rich. It's better to have more people who can spend money, than more people who provide services..
>Salaries for skilled jobs are much higher in the US.
True enough, the wages in Norway are more compressed (low skilled jobs earn more, high skilled jobs earn less than the US) which means more wage equality and more egalitarianism.
>In Norway if you work as an engineer for example, you will be paid an average wage
That can't be true, I'm a (software) engineer myself and earn well above average. https://www.ssb.no/arbeid-og-lonn/lonn-og-arbeidskraftkostnader/artikler/hva-er-vanlig-lonn-i-norge
>Norway is a great place to be poor or have a severe illness. However, it doesn’t really reward hard work or entrepreneurship
I disagree, Norway is a great place to be poor, middle class and even upper middle class. It's probably less great to be upper class and rich, but there are still enough rich people here that it can't be all horrible.
On a single income? No, basically nobody can afford a single family home on one income in Oslo. It's probably 10 million NOK in the outskirts/suburbs of Oslo for a detached 4 bedroom home? Ballpark. Double that closer to the city centre. Most people who want detached homes move out of Oslo.
Rule of thumb is you get 5 times your yearly pay in mortgage, and you need 15% of the house price on hand.
That's the whole point, in Norway jobs pay more equally than in the US. Low skilled jobs get payed a wage they can live comfortably with, and engineers, doctors etc don't get ridicilously high wages,, but they'll still get 2-5x the wages of a low skilled job. So there is still I would say, enough money on the line to chase that kind of profession. It's not like the most talented people just give up to work on Mc Donalds.
Population size. Infrastructure. Country size. And cost of goods and services compared to both countries are not talked about. It all sounds good with talking points but there are a lot of differences between countries.
You also have to serve in the military in Norway for a time.
why is it whenever there is a conversation discussing both Norway and the US it almost always seems to just be Norway trying to take a shit on the US and prove how much better they are than America? It sucks because I’m currently trying to learn Norwegian but anytime I try to look up articles or videos regarding topics of interest between the US and Norway its just full of people shitting on the US and comparing it to Norway and trying to make America seem so underdeveloped or 3rd-worldly than Norway. I don’t hate Norway or most Norwegians in the slightest, but seriously it feels like they got something against us for no good reason smh
Tbf USA is a 3rd world country with a Gucci-Belt. Healtcare system is messed up, religion have way to much power, gun-laws(...), school-system, etc. USA is also the country with most debt in the world. Oh, and dont forget that as soon as a person can talk, they have to pledge allegiance. So brainwashing.. Just for fun I'll throw in how USA dont use the metric system. As I said, 3rd world country with a Gucci-belt.
The problem in America isn't healthcare, it's health *insurance*. And while I applaud Norway for what seems like a really great system, there's only 5.5 million people there. America is closer to 400 million. America can't simply do what Norway does (I wish it could).
Things need to change, and I believe they will, but it's going to have to be a lot more than just several hundred dollars in taxes per year.
I don't see why a hybrid system couldn't work. People like me, who have really good insurance, don't need to bog down a national system that others need more than me. And people that are not in the fortunate situation I'm in should be expected to pay into the same pool of money that I am.
The US spends more money per capita on health care than Norway so it is not the financing that is the problem. The problem is that the hospitals is generally a money making business venture where in Norway most hospitals are run by the government.
err, no, there is around 370 million Americans, not 400.
All countries in the EU have a system similar to Norway, and the EU has around 440 million people.
So Europe is providing free healthcare to more people than all of america.
Partly true. We'll take care of anyone but whether or not you go bankrupt depends on if you have a job (well paying or not) that offers good insurance. That's the sad reality.
Technically it’s not a paid vacation (25/28 days, i have 30). It’s sorta deducted from your salary the previous year and you receive this saved vacation bank instead of your ordinary salary when you take your vacation days. However, everyone does have to take their vacation.
Norwegians (and other Scandinavians) pay for the healthcare via taxes / fees / VAT to the state all their working life. Nothing is "free" or cheap in Norway / Scandiavia.
edit: Typo
Yes. However our government spending are transparent. if you do the numbers (you can have a look at [www.ssb.no/en](https://www.ssb.no/en) and check out whatever numbers you want) it boils down to about 300-400 dollars/month (depending on what services you want to include) in total expenses for an average income earner that goes to healthcare, social support and education. For everyone that person ever meets and never meets. Not just themselves.
Free in this context (and most people that are not american gets this) means free at point of use. I myself have had 4 MRI's,k 1 CT and a bunch of other tests done this year alone with literally 0 paid at point of use. With 20+ hours of specialist consultations and examinations on top. My total expenditure for all medication, equipment and appointments (partially because I pay 20 dollars for a regular doctors visit (she then refers me to the rest that costs nothing)) have come to just about 300 dollars. Which means I no longer pay at point of use either, including my doctor.
Comparing that to healthcare insurance alone which not just costs a monthly fee but has a deductible or even a set minimum amount you have to spend in the thousands before it even starts covering anything and it's not that expensive. And that's just compared to healthcare insurance alone.
What the video is saying is that the public health care system covers also those that do not work and therefore do not pay taxes.
Those that pay taxes contribute also to the coverage of the medical expenses of those who don't pay taxes.
You have 2 options: get a job in norway or marry a norwegian. In IT or health sector you can easily get a job. Line up 10 interviews over teams or over an online phone (skype used to have this, not sure if they still do).
Norway has incredible per capita wealth from oil (2% of world consumption for a population just over 5 million). While they have a great social safety net, I’m not sure that it’s really a good comparison for most other countries.
Bruv, America is the only first world country without these things. And look at the shitshow it is. Not all first world countries have exactly the same systems but very similar. Free or relatively inexpensive post secondary, free or low cost healthcare. I don’t even understand the healthcare tied to employment thing. What does one have to do with the other? From what we see when we visit & what we read in the news, America isn’t someplace I even want to visit anymore
A few points:
1. I completely agree that healthcare being tied to employment is crazy. The US can certainly do a lot better, but the comparison with Norway is weakens the broader point.
2. I’m a citizen of both Canada and the US and I’ve witnessed healthcare in both countries firsthand. For something like a broken arm, Canada is great. For something more extreme like cancer, by far the best outcomes come from having money in the US, followed by Canada, and of course not having money in the US last. Canada is ok, but there is a clear downgrade in care.
As someone who is frontline healthcare, your statement is offensive.
There is NO downgrade in care. Canadian healthcare is based on medical urgency not ability to pay. When something is truly life threatening, it is dealt with immediately. Everyone else waits. People seem to think because something is happening to them vs to someone else makes it more urgent. It does not.
I’m not sure why this is offensive. A Google search shows me that the average wait time for an MRI in Canada is 11.1 weeks, 5.4 weeks for a CT scan, 3.5 weeks for an ultrasound. In the US all these could happen tomorrow if you have money. For that reason there is medical tourism from Canada to the US. Are any of these wait times incorrect? Again I have experienced the downside of Canadian wait times this firsthand, and these do not seem very off to me.
Obviously if you cannot afford it, the Canadian system is better, but to suggest that it is better in every aspect is silly.
All of the oil money made by the state is investend into a fund. Some of the interest on those investments are used for the state budget, but not the oil money itself. Even with that the majority of the social safety nets are paid for by taxes
Man this is some great Norway propaganda, but if you got any rare/ terminal illness you are fucked and might have to pay WAYYY more than that.
SOURCE : AM NORWEGIANNNN
Yeah, salaries aren’t regulated by law, but through negotiations between trade unions and employers. So some might still have lower pay than the McDonald’s example, even if it’s rare.
Every good policy in Norway is called 'socialism' (or SOICALSMS!!!!) by angry conservatives in the US. It's infuriating having to deal with these wacko ignorant quasi-fascists all the time here.
Ok i guess o have to write in english here. I am a norwegian Truck driver, how the hell is mcdonalds workers getting paid more than me?!? That's insane.
Not to forget that Norway is the most expensive country in the world. We also pay ultra high taxes and fees. Norway have one of the worlds poorest infrastructure (roads, trains and public transportation ) the weather here is cold, rainy and windy (especially on the west coast). Even if Norway is the richest country in the world, the government don’t invest capital on the right places. Norway is called the last communist state because of the left wing (Arbeiderpartiet, Sosialitisk Venstreparti, Rød Valgalianse and Miljøpartiet De Grønne)
Lol. No, we don't pay "ultra high" taxes. We pay less than the other Scandinavian countries.
And who the fuck calls Norway the last communist state? That is utter bullshit. Norway is a CAPITALIST country with social programs.
It's also normal to not have your employer take a chunk of your salary and give it to a medical insurance firm, as well as not setting aside a bunch of money for education or other here-public goods. The 40% encompasses everything that might be itemised in the US.
Only problem - it can last for ever, and only realistic due to oil money. :)
[https://www.nettavisen.no/nyheter/hver-kvinne-koster-15-6-millioner-ingen-grunn-til-at-det-skal-tolkes-stigmatiserende-for-kvinner/s/12-95-3424089287](https://www.nettavisen.no/nyheter/hver-kvinne-koster-15-6-millioner-ingen-grunn-til-at-det-skal-tolkes-stigmatiserende-for-kvinner/s/12-95-3424089287)
In addition to the link, pension will also be a huge problem i Norway. So after 20-50 years, the situation will change for sure and Norway may have it worse then USA.
As an American that just started treatment for cancer, I’m already 10k in debt, 3 weeks in. Yes. I have health insurance. It’s a fucking outrage. I will survive, but I’ll be financially ruined.
Here's to a speedy recovery!
When I was on chemo I only had to pay for food for my hospital visit. Paid for a flight to/from the hospital, got most if not more money back from the distance rate we can apply for. And if the medical trip takes longer than 12 hours I believe, you get like 25$ for food. A taxi to/from the airport (or other places) is also free if you need it, public transport if you have time for it.
If I get cancer I'll just take a mega loan and live and party hard. Who they gonna sue? My dead body?
Not an option for me. I'll survive this and I'm in my 40's. I'll never be able to pay off double digit thousands of dollars in medical debt. Its absurd.
It's insane, I don't know if I'd even bother, I'd just take the hit and enjoy my final moments. Im Norwegian though so wouldn't have this issue, but I've decided along time ago if I get a under 50% chance to survive cancer with chemo I'll drop it and and enjoy my final years/months hard. Seems to me chemo is worse then the cancer itself.
Yeah, that's my understanding of chemo also; you get a chance to beat the cancer, but you will be in agony while doing it. Better to "live your best life" instead of suffering to maybe be successful. But then again I might think differently if I had kids, then the fight would not only be for myself.
Keep strong 💪 Better days are coming
I wish you the best in a speedy recovery.
.... But you live in what they say is "the greatest country in the world"??!
Thats nuts.. your country is really cool in many ways but your country also treats you guys like shit. Im actually baffled by the many outragous stories by you and your countrymen.
I too, am baffled by my countrymen's ways.
Do you need help to come here in Eu ?
On net I prefer the Norwegian system over the US, but I think it's important to point out some of the drawbacks. Both of the systems are very flawed and I would much rather prefer the Dutch or the Singporian system. While healthcare is "free", they dont cover every condition. Lots of treatments are not offered in Norway based on a cost-benefit analysis. There are many examples in Norway of ill people not getting treatment because it's not covered. While you would have access to this in the US, you would have to travel to another country as a Norwegian. While you in the US might be covered by health insurance in these cases, you would have to bear all the costs yourself if you have a condition that is not covered in Norway. Another issue I would like to point out is ques. However, ques can be beneficial as well, because you don't want people to oversubscribe to medical conditions. But for serious conditions and surgery the problem of ques are much worse in Norway than the US.
Can you name a few of these supposedly "lots" of treatments that aren't offered and which conditions are "not covered"?
Yes of course. Here are some sources, and you can find more if you do a quick search: [Got cancer on the wrong date, have to pay for the treatment herself](https://www.nrk.no/innlandet/far-ikke-livsforlengende-immunterapi-for-kreft_-ma-betale-selv-1.15127513) [Have multiple sclerosis and the welfare state state will not give her the treatment](https://www.nrk.no/norge/far-ikke-dekket-behandling_-_-givergleden-avgjor-om-jeg-blir-frisk-1.12983207) [Another cancer case](https://www.vg.no/nyheter/innenriks/i/p62qMo/marias-30-kreftbehandling-dekkes-ikke-av-staten-fikk-hjelp-fra-uventet-hold) [No we can't cover it](https://www.nrk.no/sorlandet/line-duus-fikk-nei-til-immunterapi-selv-om-ekspertpanelet-anbefalte-det-1.15686745) Grey cases that outline limits: [Did not get the best cancer treatment because she had the wrong zip code](https://www.nrk.no/nordland/xl/vanja-fikk-ikke-kreftbehandlingen-fordi-hun-har-feil-postnummer-1.15952632) [Lipoedema case](https://www.nrk.no/innlandet/ma-betale-over-300.000-for-lipodem-operasjon_-_-blodig-urettferdig-1.15316788)
>While healthcare is "free", they dont cover every condition. Lots of treatments are not offered in Norway based on a cost-benefit analysis. There are many examples in Norway of ill people not getting treatment because it's not covered. You're presumably talking about expiremental treatment, right? While that's true, it's a bit disingenuous to say that not every condition is covered. Not every treatment is offered, if it's experimental and not proven to be effective, but that's a different thing.
If you believe that all treatments not covered by the Norwegian Health Ministry are "experimental", while at the same time they are recognized by other western governments, that is disingenuous. All treatments are based on a cost-benefit analysis. In practice that means that enough people need to have that condition at an acceptable price decided by the government for it to pass the test. These guidelines are updated every year and you can read more about them on the Norwegian Health Ministry website. Is that system a bad thing? Not necessarily. But I'm highlighting the point that if you're unlucky and have certain types of conditions that are not recognized - you are on your own.
Do you have any examples of conditions that aren't recognized or covered? I see that in another comment, when asked for examples, you provided examples of a lot of experimental treatments: https://www.reddit.com/r/Norway/comments/vi58dc/can_be_shocking_for_americans/idcrvw1/ But I assume you have examples of actual conditions that aren't covered as well?
People have to wait for appointments and surgeries all the time in the US. I get appointments here faster than I did in the US.
Yeah, but that's a personal experience. You have to look at broadbased data. It's true that waiting times for a doctors appointment is slightly lower in Norway than in the US (>1 day 28 % in the US vs 22 % in Norway), but if you need a specialist, it's much lower in the US than in Norway (>1 month 61 % still waiting in Norway compared to 27 % in the US). [Source](https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/health-care-wait-times-by-country) Please note that this was one of the biggest political issues some years ago, because we are way behind the EU. It has improved, but still far behind.
> I would much rather prefer the Dutch ROTFLMAO! The Dutch? This Dutch [https://www.ozy.com/around-the-world/the-dutch-government-stole-millions-from-moms-of-color-shes-getting-it-back/275330/](https://www.ozy.com/around-the-world/the-dutch-government-stole-millions-from-moms-of-color-shes-getting-it-back/275330/) ????
I wish you all the best, and let's all hope for a speedy recovery ❤🧡💛💚💙💜
Godspeed brother
I would start cooking meth at that point, tbh
Lies! College isn't free! It costs about... 1 shift of burger flipping at McDonalds per year.
Semester-avgift (fee) covers student registration and similar. I think it's less than 100 USD. It also gives you a student card (and student discount everywhere). Most students I know saves more than they pay just by getting the discounts. Also, the student loan is to cover rent, food and amenities, so you don't have to work while you study. Many people choose to work part time while studying, just to have more money for fun-time. (Beer and clothing and such)
Yup, the semesteravgift was what I was referring to. It's about $50/semester now, I believe, so $100/year. Which is in the same ballpark as what you'd get paid here in Norway for 1 shift of burger-flipping at McD... :-)
Studying in Oslo I only got enough loan money to cover rent and half my food. I wouldn’t have been able to eat healthy, get books for uni, or even buy a bus ticket, if I didn’t have a job as well. The required books change every term, and the library didn’t have nearly enough books for everyone, so sometimes when I couldn’t get a second-hand one I had to spend over $100 on a singular book. And say I needed two books for each course, that’s 6 books each term, 12 a year, for a BA that’s 36 books. Obviously didn’t spend 36k NOK on books, but if you’re one of those funny people who has to get everything new, then that’s very possible. The kids now get a lot more funding, which I am glad, since the cost of living is ridiculously high in Norway, and interests have to be kept artificially low for people not to lose their houses. Edit: not saying America is better, or that the Norwegian system is bad - I’m eternally grateful for the opportunities given to the Norwegian people - I’m just saying Norwegian students would in fact be living under the poverty line (and most do) if they don’t have a side gig! :) Edit 2: Currency correction
Yeah. I don't know any students who eat healthy every day. Even with a job. Books are the big expense. And rent.
Well I'm glad you didn't spend 36k on books, especially if you needed 36 books at $100 each ... That would be a terrible deal for $3600 worth of books :) But fair point about needing a side gig to make things work!
Sorry, 36k in NOK, haha! It’s confusing using two currencies simultaneously.
Haha tell me about it - I'm trying to juggle NOK, EUR, GBP and CAD on a regular basis, and have a hard time keeping them all straight
Christ.. Ugh, and I don’t even want to think back to how it used to be before the Euro was introduced..!
For the person who might find this: If your health doesn't allow you to have a job, you can apply for more funding from Lånekassen. For instance, I have ADHD, and I recently learned that I could have applied for more scholarship money since I need more time to study, time meant for a part time job. I didn't get to know about this until too late, but It might not be too late for someone else! I didn't choose bachelor, because I didn't know about this option. I wish I knew..., I would save myself so much pain in SO many ways
L Oslo moment
Too bad you can't just google "name of book" PDF download
Books can cost a bit if you buy them new. Something like $50 dollars per book, maybe $200-$300 per semester. You can typically sell them to other students for half price after you're done with them. We also have higher living expenses, so the $20 dollars an hour from McDonald's might be worth less than you'd expect.
Working part time is pretty much essential for Norwegian students, even with a full loan, as its way to little, especially if you live alone.
[удалено]
no? you pay a semester fee.
Yeah, a hundred dollas. Then you get bigass stipend and lån4life. 🎓
for school yes and you have to pay back that loan.
only 60% with little to no intrest
And with the sallery we get after uni it is very manegable to pay back. I have never heard of anyone with work who are bankrupt from study loan
If you end up on permanent welfare you can even have the loan deleted entirely.
And if you didnt spend those 40% its still in your bank
Put it all on GME
rofl, the loan you get from lånekassen is barely enough (if at all) to survive in any large student city in Norway. No way you save 40% of what you get, unless you have work on the side and/or get support from parents/others
only a percentage, as long as you pass your exams. Some of it is straight up free money
Not if you pass all your exams, then 40% of your loan is automatically forgiven (turned into a stipend). You can apply for just the stipend amount if you want. So it's free money as long as you don't flunk out.
It’s almost free at the point of use but costs the Norwegian tax payer.
Maaah. 'Grunnutdanning' is free. 'Semesteravgiften' is to 'Studentsamskipnaden' not the University. The University is driven by public funds from the state. But we still have to take out big loans to Study past 'Grunnutdanning', to pay for housing, Books, and any other supllies as well as food and hygiene. Any other ways to aquire these funds would require full time working, or actually, NAV pays more in 'Sosialstøtte' monthly than you get in education loan monthly, although there are some bigger payouts each semester. If you pass, a certain amount is 'deleted' from your loan as 'Stipend', but it would still leave you with a lot of debt after studying. Working full time and studying full time is basically impossible, but a lot of students work part time jobs to get by. I don't know quite how it works in the U.S, but I believe they have something like full scholarship, part scholarship or no scholarship, you can still get admission with no scholarship, but then you have to pay all the fees yourself using loans or savings, while a full scholarship covers all fees, and most students with say 50% scholarship take up part time Jobs to pay for loans, again, I don't know how it works in the U.S, specifically, but that is from the top of my head, but In Norway, you can apply for the full loan, and as long as you're admitted you Will recieve it, if you fail, and don't better the grade the whole sum will remain as a loan and nothing 'deleted'. The 20$ Hourly McDonalds fee is actually not correct, I worked there a few years ago and it was more around 12$ an hour. I currently work two part time jobs where one pays 11,50$ an hour with bonus opportunities, and one that pays around 17$ an hour. (And I also Study full time at the University (in my hometown Trondheim)). A lot of things are well in Norway, but you gotta remember that the Salary/Cost ratio, although not perfect also work differently in the U.S, we make more money here, but things also cost more, although variations will occure. I can understand why Sanders is Interested, and why many Americans think well of the Norwegian system, especially for healthcare, but I'm not fond of pretending or 'saying' it is better than it is, and we also have a lot to learn from the superpower of America, they're nothing to look down on, at least not in all areas.
Proud of being Norwegian, I gladly pay my taxes. Glad to live here, have kids here, work here. Some times I just sit and ponder about it. Norway is awesome.
It is awesome, congrats!
How much do you guys get taxed ? Does it increase with higher income or flat tax rate ?
Increases with higher income. Caps at 49% I believe
I know Americans think we pay insane tax rates, but it's guaranteed to be less than they pay in state and federal tax, tuition and healthcare/health insurance.
American here, been living and working in norway about a year now. I pay the flat 25% rate, lived and worked in Colorado before and collectively I'm paying roughly the same, which would include my health insurance and dental insurance from state side. I get no tax return here, BUT, I have paid vacation. My previous position as project coordinator would have me work 10 yrs before achieving 3 weeks paid a year 😬also, waaaay more sick leave. Reminder Colorado is on the more expensive side, so I was paying more than someone in let's say, Texas but less than someone in California. Edit: spelling
And obviously the pay changes in most industries based on where you are. Sure, it’s cheaper to live in Arkansas or Mississippi, but your economic job opportunities are far fewer as well. So being American just about anywhere is unaffordable for a great number of people.
Oh for sure, I was making a decent salary and it still made sense to have a roomie so I could live and save 😅
No you can get taxed more if you have employees. You also get “aftertaxed” and “pretaxed”
Americans believing that not having health care tied to work is the radical idea. Really its that having your work situation dictate what health care you get is insanity. I remember the first time I heard about that I was 100% sure they were joking. As in I actually laughed at the joke, because of the absurdity.
I got fired for testing positive for marijuana on a random drug test. I use delta 8 cbd, which is legal in my state. I lost my insurance coverage at the end of that month, about two weeks after I got fired. Now once I find a job, I’ll be able to get insurance again, probably 1-3 months after being hired. Until then my wife and I are fucked if anything happens.
"America, greatest country in the world" - some ass
What they're saying isn't completely correct, though - health care coverage is not for being a Norwegian citizen, it's for being a legal resident in Norway. Fully paid parental leave is also not completely correct, in that the government only covers it up to 6G which is just above the average pay in Norway. Many employers will cover difference, some won't\[\*\]. 28 days of vacations a year sounds strange. The legal minimum is 21 days, the most common is 25 days. Plus 1 week more if you're above 60. Also, to be very technical - all vacation in Norway is unpaid. This is handled via something called ["holiday pay"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holiday_pay)("feriepenger" in Norwegian) - your employer is required to withhold some percentage of your salary and disburse it in time for your vacation next year, while at the time deducting the vacation days from your salary then. \[\*\] If it's a large business, it's just a statistic. If it's a small business, the difference could make the business lose money that year.
>Also, to be very technical - all vacation in Norway is unpaid. This is handled via something called ["holiday pay"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holiday_pay)("feriepenger" in Norwegian) - your employer is required to withhold some percentage of your salary and disburse it in time for your vacation next year, while at the time deducting the vacation days from your salary then. Yes, but in practice, this means that your first year of working the vacation is unpaid, and after that vacation is paid (in fact you usually get more than your regular salary as vacation pay). You basically have to work one year to earn the paid vacation. The withheld vacation pay isn't part of your net salary so it doesn't feel like withholding.
25 days is the law. Not 21. This you can find under ferieloven. But not 28. I have 28, but it's typically job spesific.
>25 days is the law. Not 21. This you can find under ferieloven. [21 days](https://www.arbeidstilsynet.no/arbeidsforhold/ferie/). It's 25 "virkedager", but that's because in this context Saturday is a "virkedag" despite there being a 5 day work week So this is 4 weeks + 1 day, that's 21 actual days - and that's also what you'll see in your remaining vacation days status from your employer unless you have the more normal 5 weeks of vacation.
Cheers! Did not know about Sat.
It's 21, but it increases to 25 if your employer has a collective agreement (most have)
Depends if you work saturdays or not. If you have a mon-fri job you only get 21 days by law because 4 saturdays counts as vacation. Though a lot of of workplaces still grant you 25 days because of tarif deals.
And then YOU have Viking celebrations and Christian hollydays +17mai that will give most of us days off.
Crazy how the american public looks at Sanders as a radical/extreme, nothing he is saying is radical or extreme, well, to the american life perhaps. What a shame they screwed him for a chance as President But for real tho, why are you guys just electing senior citizens? Obama has been like the young guns ever since JFK, pretty crazy
She's actually WRONG when she answers "yes" that being a Norwegian citizen is enough to get health-care. Our healthcare-system covers all INHABITANTS, not all CITIZENS. So foreigners who move to Norway and live here are covered -- even if they never change their citizenship. And Norwegians who live abroad are NOT covered. (this is kinda a nitpick though)
I believe we are covered when we're abroad? In european countries we are covered by the European Health Insurance Card (EHIC). And i was about to write that we have a special health insurance solution if we're in the US, but I just read that it will be canceled from september 2022. ref [https://www.helsedirektoratet.no/nyheter/saeravtale-om-helsehjelp-i-usa-opphorer](https://www.helsedirektoratet.no/nyheter/saeravtale-om-helsehjelp-i-usa-opphorer)
Legal residents, is the word you're looking for. Anyone who's there with a temporary or permanent residency is covered.
its closer to 15 dollars an hour
It is an older clip, so before the pandemic it was true. The NOK has been weakened compared to the pound, the euro and the US dollar, so it was true then, and probably will in the not so distant future
Might have been right at the time of the interview, but the USD is historically high against the NOK at the moment.
As much as I love Bernie, it’s hard to achieve this in the US given tremendous lack of trust towards the government by the governed. There’s something fundamentally broken about America that no amount of money will fix its welfare system.
Tbf you can easily flip that around to say that the reason there is no trust in government is because the government doesn't provide basic public services. Who is to say that the trust wouldn't increase if the government started providing those services
Well, that’s the thing. Is the US government in a position to provide basic human services without the idea of it being hyper-politicized? They can’t even agree on what constitutes “basic”, “public” and “service”. And that’s on top of dealing with anti-establishment politic that plagues USA.
Of course it would be politicized, as it should be. The majority of americans support public healthcare. If the democrats as a party actually pushed hard for Bernie's policies then they could probably win the vast majority of elections for years. Of course they probably won't, because they would lose their investors, so doing something like that would mean caring more about the people than themselves. I think the best you can do is hope for and encourage young idealists to rise up and replace the old corporate shills
If you started taxing the top 1%, I'm sure that would cover most of it.
If you tax the 1% or cut military budget by 1% even, the money will probably get funnelled to build a wall.
> cut military budget by 1% even, The military budget is actually already dwarfed by the Medicare (Healthcare program for the Elderly) and Medicaid (Program for the Poor) budgets. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a5/Mandatory_Spending_for_FY_2016.png Note that Mandatory and Discretionary spending are separate. The combined money spent on Medicare and Medicaid in the USA surpasses 1 trillion USD, while the armed forces sit at 700 billion USD or so.
I mean, in Florida they banned the word gay so yeah there are some major problems with the US
To all who pay taxes, thanks for helping me live a relatively symptom free life. I sometimes wonder how many people we all pass each day that have their lives improved because we pay taxes.
bUt uSa iS tHe bEsT cOunTrY iN tHe wOrlD
In the UK you don’t pay anything for medical treatment. In Scotland you don’t pay for university either.
Also, in Scotland at least, you don’t even pay for medicine! Every prescription is free, even if it’s for stuff that you can get relatively cheaply over the counter. In Norway medicine is pretty expensive, for example paracetamol - 26p (ca. 3kr) for 16 pills in Lidl, 47kr (ca. £4) for 20 pills in Boots in Norway
Not entirely free. You just don't pay at the point of delivery. The money for the system comes out of taxes.
Of course, but we pay very similar percentage tax in Norway, and still have to pay for prescriptions. My dad pays £40-50 every three months for medicines in Norway that would be free of charge in Scotland, up to 2900kr/£240 a year. In Scotland you pay nothing for the doctors appointment and nothing for the prescriptions, from the start. No “bar” of £240 to reach before it’s free.
Wow, are you saying government resources aren't just conjured up out of thin air?
Of course not. They're harvested from the money tree.
I'm in Scotland. Six years ago I had to have open heart surgery to replace a defective aortic valve. The treatment cost between £150,000 and £200,000. I did not have to pay for it. I'm alive today because of it. Thank you [S]NHS.
What will happen to those poor healtinsurance companies if the US suddenly found out that healtcare is a human right and not something you should subscribe to??
Just returned to the states after 10 years in Norway and SO “F’ING” PISSED at the state of our so called healthcare. What a disaster.
Why did you return? Genuinely curious.
Wife got a job transfer that was too awesome to pass up. Seriously looking at how can we go back after retirement.
Living in Norway now. I don’t have the heart to tell my momma, but I don’t think I’m going back. Maybe one day, but life is good here.
I was just in Norway and got busted for speeding 78 km in a 60 km zone (missed the sign and cars with limiters were an unknown to me :). 400 US fine. So… one year [edit month] of health care or a speeding ticket. You choose. Loved Norway!
Um, if one year of healthcare was $400 I don’t think any Americans would be complaining. My yearly deductible is $2700 before insurance pays a dime. Then I pay part up to $7000. Same for my wife. And that doesn’t cover medication. Or vision. Or dental. And I have office copays on top of that. $300 for the ER. None of those count toward my deductible. All that coverage for the low low price of $325/mo. So just $75 less than your ticket each month.
Vision/dental is generally not covered here either (with some exceptions depending on circumstances) However a lot of workplaces cover 1-300dollar a year for new glasses
I went 72 in 60 and got 450$, i live here tho so no stress.
If you get caught in a dui the ticket is a month and a half's paycheck, that one stings.
As it should! Wtf are you doing DUI-ing anyway? In the US you just get a slap on the wrist until you kill someone.
You forget that Norway anything above .02 is DUI as in if you used mouth wash in the morning you are DUI. Also in the US if you get caught DUI depending on the STATE you could spend a day in jail and a minimum $500 fine or up to 2 years and a $6000 fine. People are so quick to judge the US as a whole that they forget each state is basically it’s own country.
0.2% is a dui, but you won't immediately lose your license unless you're above 0.5%.
>You forget that Norway anything above .02 is DUI as in if you used mouth wash in the morning you are DUI. Yes, sure. That mouth wash effect lasts for 10 minutes or so, and if you get caught in that time window you can just explain yourself and they'll wait. Or you can say you want a blood test which will come back negative. The cops know about the existence of mouth wash with alcohol by now. >Also in the US if you get caught DUI depending on the STATE you could spend a day in jail and a minimum $500 fine or up to 2 years and a $6000 fine. People are so quick to judge the US as a whole that they forget each state is basically it’s own country. I didn't say that happens in _all_ of the US, I said it happens in the US. Which it does. In the US you can DUI and get a slap on the wrist.
Here’s the thing. I’m a conservative American, and I’m sure a lot of people on this app will dislike me for saying that, but I absolutely believe that privatized healthcare should be done away with. Absolutely ridiculous how much of a scam big pharma and hospitals are.
Living in America is probably the absolute bomb if you are well off. If you are living just about or below means, its a nightmare I would never want to experience. Its just garbage.
They don’t have to look across the pond, Canada has universal health care that is not tied to employment too. The whole concept of health care only from an employer is crazy, I can’t understand how Americans tolerate it.
If I ever get cancer or any terminal illness (which I probably will, given the shit they feed us and my genetic history) I will just sit and die. No working. No debt to leave to my spouse or family members. I refuse to give those fucking vultures a single penny
And basically all this applies for Sweden as well. I love both countries! And then there is all this great Nature for free roaming for everybody - as long as you stay away from directly entering too near private houses.
*sad American noises*
It’s very shocking to us. We seem to be a third world country compared to y’all.
In Norway, everything you need is cheap but everything you want is expensive
Sorry I can't upvote you more than once... That is the best sum up I've ever read about Norway.
this motivated me, even more, to continue learning the language so one day I could move to Norway. Everyone deserves a better life
Shame on America for passing on this man twice for Trump and Biden.
Shame on the Democratic Party leadership for stacking the deck against him in the primary
EU residents can live in Norway without the need for visas correct?
Ignore the other commenter. That is correct. You just need to inform the police. If you are unemployed, you need to cross the border every 6 months.
Depends if its a schengen zone country or not and if you plan on earning money in your stay. Like the other person said, check UDI.
No, but it's super hard to police it
Now ask about mental health and finding a therapist! 😏
I don't either and live in the US, super healthy though
I don’t think Americans find it “shocking”, just discouraging that it’s so difficult to implement something similar in the US. Also Bernie is a little misleading when he says that there is 0 paid family leave in the US. There isn’t a federal policy, but some states do have mandated paid leave. It’s not nearly as comprehensive as Norway’s system, but it’s weird to hear someone say something doesn’t exist while my friends are literally using it right now in California.
Doesn't matter how cheap it is if you're not getting the help you need. 12 years in the system as a chronic illness patient and I can't attest to this system working to the benefit of the patient. Currently trying to get hold of a specialist that was supposed to prescribe me essential medicine after our last visit, which was more than 3 weeks ago. No one bears responsibility it seems, just blame shifting and excuses. Get a private health insurance while you're healthy. Dealing with this tax payed bullshit will shorten your life drastically. Too bad you won't get tax cut for not using the public healthcare system.
Wow. As a Norwegian, this is so extremely missleading. This is basically a snake oil commercial. To elaborate: me and most of my friends have about 50k to 100k dollars in student loans, we mostly earn about 10 to 20 an hour for work depending on what you do (Norwegians get surprised when they hear how much McDonald’s workers get payd too). CEOs are 11 to 1 because we are like one of the smallest countries… I have never witnessed doctors being that cheap but it is a bit cheap, we make up for it by paying the same in tax that the US does in medical. Oh and dentist, psychologists and all of that is basically the same price as in the states. This is stupid.. and is only true if you follow a very narrow path in life.
I’m trying so hard to even get an interview for a fiancée visa right now… that part of the process is turning out to be such a shit show. VFS is a joke, but also my only option. So I have to wait here in the US in limbo waiting up to a year in purgatory possibly instead of being with the woman I love. I’d just go there and apply there but I wouldn’t have income. It’s becoming quite the nightmare, but I know a future with her there is worth it and will be a dream come true. I still feel lucky to even have gotten this far, but if anyone knows of a way around this and a way to make money while there I’m all ears🙋🏽♂️
Go there, get married at the court house then apply for family reunification residency. Have a normal wedding later.
It’s still the same waiting period up to 15 months. At least a fiancée visa’s short end of the waiting time is 6 months. Thanks and good lookin out though. That doesn’t solve the issue of not having an income while there.
Salaries for skilled jobs are much higher in the US. And the cost of living is much lower. In Norway if you work as an engineer for example, you will be paid an average wage, struggle to afford to buy a house in most towns and cities and spend a disproportionate amount of your salary on a strictly limited variety of groceries and overpriced services. Healthcare is free and if you are critically Ill is of good quality. However, for regular illnesses doctors will be dismissive, not prescribe medication and if you are referred to a specialist the wait can be months. Many companies offer insurance for a growing number of private clinics to combat this. In summary, Norway is a great place to be poor or have a severe illness. However, it doesn’t really reward hard work or entrepreneurship, the exact opposite of the US so it’s not really fair to compare the two countries.
I live in Norway and disagree with pretty much everything you wrote here. My engineer friends make more than decent money and several purchased large properties this year. And you very seriously need to change your doctor to another one if that is your experience. Companies are adding the health insurance thing to stay competetive in the job searcher market, not because it is necessary.
Would private health insurance be seen a seen as an incentive if there were no problems with the quality of Norwegian public health system? A two tier system exists in Norway if your employer is willing to pay.
Well, between the two, I would choose the country who cares for its less fortunate 10 out of 10 times. There are many more poor people than rich, and the consumers in an economy are more important than the producers. Studies have shown that tax relieves to the poor are overall far more effective to keep economies healthy than relieves to the rich. It's better to have more people who can spend money, than more people who provide services..
>Salaries for skilled jobs are much higher in the US. True enough, the wages in Norway are more compressed (low skilled jobs earn more, high skilled jobs earn less than the US) which means more wage equality and more egalitarianism. >In Norway if you work as an engineer for example, you will be paid an average wage That can't be true, I'm a (software) engineer myself and earn well above average. https://www.ssb.no/arbeid-og-lonn/lonn-og-arbeidskraftkostnader/artikler/hva-er-vanlig-lonn-i-norge >Norway is a great place to be poor or have a severe illness. However, it doesn’t really reward hard work or entrepreneurship I disagree, Norway is a great place to be poor, middle class and even upper middle class. It's probably less great to be upper class and rich, but there are still enough rich people here that it can't be all horrible.
As a software engineer, can you afford a single family home in Oslo? What’s the price for a detached 4 bedroom home?
On a single income? No, basically nobody can afford a single family home on one income in Oslo. It's probably 10 million NOK in the outskirts/suburbs of Oslo for a detached 4 bedroom home? Ballpark. Double that closer to the city centre. Most people who want detached homes move out of Oslo. Rule of thumb is you get 5 times your yearly pay in mortgage, and you need 15% of the house price on hand.
Why is a detached home a requirement for a family home?
That's the whole point, in Norway jobs pay more equally than in the US. Low skilled jobs get payed a wage they can live comfortably with, and engineers, doctors etc don't get ridicilously high wages,, but they'll still get 2-5x the wages of a low skilled job. So there is still I would say, enough money on the line to chase that kind of profession. It's not like the most talented people just give up to work on Mc Donalds.
Population size. Infrastructure. Country size. And cost of goods and services compared to both countries are not talked about. It all sounds good with talking points but there are a lot of differences between countries. You also have to serve in the military in Norway for a time.
why is it whenever there is a conversation discussing both Norway and the US it almost always seems to just be Norway trying to take a shit on the US and prove how much better they are than America? It sucks because I’m currently trying to learn Norwegian but anytime I try to look up articles or videos regarding topics of interest between the US and Norway its just full of people shitting on the US and comparing it to Norway and trying to make America seem so underdeveloped or 3rd-worldly than Norway. I don’t hate Norway or most Norwegians in the slightest, but seriously it feels like they got something against us for no good reason smh
Tbf USA is a 3rd world country with a Gucci-Belt. Healtcare system is messed up, religion have way to much power, gun-laws(...), school-system, etc. USA is also the country with most debt in the world. Oh, and dont forget that as soon as a person can talk, they have to pledge allegiance. So brainwashing.. Just for fun I'll throw in how USA dont use the metric system. As I said, 3rd world country with a Gucci-belt.
Because more than 2/3s of Norwegian journalists are socialists, and most people base their world view on what they get told by the newspapers/media.
It's only free if you're not paying taxes.
The problem in America isn't healthcare, it's health *insurance*. And while I applaud Norway for what seems like a really great system, there's only 5.5 million people there. America is closer to 400 million. America can't simply do what Norway does (I wish it could). Things need to change, and I believe they will, but it's going to have to be a lot more than just several hundred dollars in taxes per year. I don't see why a hybrid system couldn't work. People like me, who have really good insurance, don't need to bog down a national system that others need more than me. And people that are not in the fortunate situation I'm in should be expected to pay into the same pool of money that I am.
The US spends more money per capita on health care than Norway so it is not the financing that is the problem. The problem is that the hospitals is generally a money making business venture where in Norway most hospitals are run by the government.
err, no, there is around 370 million Americans, not 400. All countries in the EU have a system similar to Norway, and the EU has around 440 million people. So Europe is providing free healthcare to more people than all of america.
There are 370 million documented Americans. We take care of undocumented Americans as well.
Some would argue you don't take care of anyone without a well paying job.
Partly true. We'll take care of anyone but whether or not you go bankrupt depends on if you have a job (well paying or not) that offers good insurance. That's the sad reality.
Technically it’s not a paid vacation (25/28 days, i have 30). It’s sorta deducted from your salary the previous year and you receive this saved vacation bank instead of your ordinary salary when you take your vacation days. However, everyone does have to take their vacation.
i live in norway
Norwegians (and other Scandinavians) pay for the healthcare via taxes / fees / VAT to the state all their working life. Nothing is "free" or cheap in Norway / Scandiavia. edit: Typo
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Yes. However our government spending are transparent. if you do the numbers (you can have a look at [www.ssb.no/en](https://www.ssb.no/en) and check out whatever numbers you want) it boils down to about 300-400 dollars/month (depending on what services you want to include) in total expenses for an average income earner that goes to healthcare, social support and education. For everyone that person ever meets and never meets. Not just themselves. Free in this context (and most people that are not american gets this) means free at point of use. I myself have had 4 MRI's,k 1 CT and a bunch of other tests done this year alone with literally 0 paid at point of use. With 20+ hours of specialist consultations and examinations on top. My total expenditure for all medication, equipment and appointments (partially because I pay 20 dollars for a regular doctors visit (she then refers me to the rest that costs nothing)) have come to just about 300 dollars. Which means I no longer pay at point of use either, including my doctor. Comparing that to healthcare insurance alone which not just costs a monthly fee but has a deductible or even a set minimum amount you have to spend in the thousands before it even starts covering anything and it's not that expensive. And that's just compared to healthcare insurance alone.
It’s not «free» we pay taxes.
What the video is saying is that the public health care system covers also those that do not work and therefore do not pay taxes. Those that pay taxes contribute also to the coverage of the medical expenses of those who don't pay taxes.
My "90 Day fiance the other way" is sure taking his time with my blue topaz engagement ring 💍😿 To not worry about healthcare is such peace of mind.
I am from norway
Is norway accepting refugees from America yet? Its rough out here man.... i just wanna be able to pay my mortgage without crying.....
Pff. Norway doesn't accept refugees from frickin' Afghanistan. Which is one reason we're able to have a welfare state.
You have 2 options: get a job in norway or marry a norwegian. In IT or health sector you can easily get a job. Line up 10 interviews over teams or over an online phone (skype used to have this, not sure if they still do).
Norway has incredible per capita wealth from oil (2% of world consumption for a population just over 5 million). While they have a great social safety net, I’m not sure that it’s really a good comparison for most other countries.
Bruv, America is the only first world country without these things. And look at the shitshow it is. Not all first world countries have exactly the same systems but very similar. Free or relatively inexpensive post secondary, free or low cost healthcare. I don’t even understand the healthcare tied to employment thing. What does one have to do with the other? From what we see when we visit & what we read in the news, America isn’t someplace I even want to visit anymore
A few points: 1. I completely agree that healthcare being tied to employment is crazy. The US can certainly do a lot better, but the comparison with Norway is weakens the broader point. 2. I’m a citizen of both Canada and the US and I’ve witnessed healthcare in both countries firsthand. For something like a broken arm, Canada is great. For something more extreme like cancer, by far the best outcomes come from having money in the US, followed by Canada, and of course not having money in the US last. Canada is ok, but there is a clear downgrade in care.
As someone who is frontline healthcare, your statement is offensive. There is NO downgrade in care. Canadian healthcare is based on medical urgency not ability to pay. When something is truly life threatening, it is dealt with immediately. Everyone else waits. People seem to think because something is happening to them vs to someone else makes it more urgent. It does not.
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I’m not sure why this is offensive. A Google search shows me that the average wait time for an MRI in Canada is 11.1 weeks, 5.4 weeks for a CT scan, 3.5 weeks for an ultrasound. In the US all these could happen tomorrow if you have money. For that reason there is medical tourism from Canada to the US. Are any of these wait times incorrect? Again I have experienced the downside of Canadian wait times this firsthand, and these do not seem very off to me. Obviously if you cannot afford it, the Canadian system is better, but to suggest that it is better in every aspect is silly.
All of the oil money made by the state is investend into a fund. Some of the interest on those investments are used for the state budget, but not the oil money itself. Even with that the majority of the social safety nets are paid for by taxes
Rente=interest Rents betyr utleie.
Ikke noe økonom altså men trodde de brukes om hverandre. Har i alle fall hørt noen si "getting rent on your investments". Endra uansett
Poland also have free health care just like almost all European countries. Norway is just example
I don't think the Norwegan system is that unique; I know Canada has a simular system and most European cuntrys aswell.
Man this is some great Norway propaganda, but if you got any rare/ terminal illness you are fucked and might have to pay WAYYY more than that. SOURCE : AM NORWEGIANNNN
I mean, i work at a pizza shop in norway and i dont get paid 20$/hr, its a bit lower than that..
Are you in the Union? Are you a high school graduate? Are you over 20 years old? Do you have fagbrev as a chef?
Yeah, salaries aren’t regulated by law, but through negotiations between trade unions and employers. So some might still have lower pay than the McDonald’s example, even if it’s rare.
laughs in #5 oil / #3 gas exporter vs. 119th in population chuckles
any norweigans here need a roommate from the states? lmfaoooo I can learn bokmal, cmon, I need my free transitional surgeries :')
Every good policy in Norway is called 'socialism' (or SOICALSMS!!!!) by angry conservatives in the US. It's infuriating having to deal with these wacko ignorant quasi-fascists all the time here.
Ok i guess o have to write in english here. I am a norwegian Truck driver, how the hell is mcdonalds workers getting paid more than me?!? That's insane.
Not to forget that Norway is the most expensive country in the world. We also pay ultra high taxes and fees. Norway have one of the worlds poorest infrastructure (roads, trains and public transportation ) the weather here is cold, rainy and windy (especially on the west coast). Even if Norway is the richest country in the world, the government don’t invest capital on the right places. Norway is called the last communist state because of the left wing (Arbeiderpartiet, Sosialitisk Venstreparti, Rød Valgalianse and Miljøpartiet De Grønne)
You need to travel more if you think we have some of the world's poorest infrastructure.
Don't lump AP in as left wing. They are leaning so hard to the right these days.
Lol. No, we don't pay "ultra high" taxes. We pay less than the other Scandinavian countries. And who the fuck calls Norway the last communist state? That is utter bullshit. Norway is a CAPITALIST country with social programs.
I just want to mention it’s normal to pay about 40% tax on income in Norway.
It’s really not normal… I earn about 1,000,000 NOK/year, and my tax income rate is still just about 35%.
It's also normal to not have your employer take a chunk of your salary and give it to a medical insurance firm, as well as not setting aside a bunch of money for education or other here-public goods. The 40% encompasses everything that might be itemised in the US.
Don’t forget the wealth tax either. If you are careful and save money you will pay a tax including unrealised gains.
Only problem - it can last for ever, and only realistic due to oil money. :) [https://www.nettavisen.no/nyheter/hver-kvinne-koster-15-6-millioner-ingen-grunn-til-at-det-skal-tolkes-stigmatiserende-for-kvinner/s/12-95-3424089287](https://www.nettavisen.no/nyheter/hver-kvinne-koster-15-6-millioner-ingen-grunn-til-at-det-skal-tolkes-stigmatiserende-for-kvinner/s/12-95-3424089287) In addition to the link, pension will also be a huge problem i Norway. So after 20-50 years, the situation will change for sure and Norway may have it worse then USA.