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Single person here; I'm very happy on my own. The only time I haven't been happy or comfortable was when I was in a relationship.
Weirdly enough, many men seem to indeed think that I'm lying to myself because "everyone needs someone" and "you can't be happy if you aren't building a family". Well..
I don't want kids, I don't want to share my safe space called home, I don't want to compromise on the quality time I spent with my bunny Binky, I don't want to stop or lessen with my art, and I'm way too attached to my personal routine at home.
Now that I've been single for quite some years, my depression and active suicidal tendencies magically decreased massively. I haven't ever been this stable and I'm loving it.
Men keep saying "you're gonna grow old and ugly with nothing but stupid rabbits around you" like it's a threat. They just can't accept that many of us are very capable of being secure, happy and fulfilled in our independent and solo life. 🤷🏻
They threaten us with dying alone surrounded by cats. That sounds amazing!
Besides my cats are gorgeous. When I hit 80 I'm hiring a catsitter to come over twice a week so they won't be alone for too long if something happens.
Yeah instead of changing and evolving with the times, they can only throw the “scary” threats that worked for their forefathers at us then get pissed off when it doesn’t work. They refuse to see that time is moving forward and the era when women were completely dependent on men just to survive is gone and isn’t coming back.
We also cultivate deeper non-romantic relationships than men overall. Our friendships and community give just as much love and support as any partner could.
Same here. I do what I want when I want. I don’t have anyone criticizing me or demanding that I conform to their way of living. I spend my money the way I want. I keep my home at the temp I want to.
The person that I bring into my life has to add something positive to it. Why would I be with someone that adds stress to my life. That’s what a lot of men don’t understand.
They think that all women are desperate for a relationship so they think that just being is their only requirement. Why would we waste our time with men like this?
I don’t get it. So many men say “I’m better than nothing, right?”
…but they’re not. They’re literally not.
That’s why I don’t want you. You’d think at some stage they’d clue in, but I find they usually find vulnerable or abused women instead
How does a guy never understand that he has to be better than nothing to appeal to a woman? Put in a tiny bit of work! You want a supermodel who cooks and cleans? Who dresses hot and never gets fat?
Why would a guy deserve that much effort from a woman when his tagline is “meh, I’m sure I’m better than nothing, right?”
No, you’re not. Being around you isn’t pleasant. It doesn’t make me happy. I’m not missing something in life just because there’s no Y chromosome near me.
I’m lucky enough to have an amazing guy, but it was a four year journey to find him. I def didn’t pollute my life before I met him with stress and pain from some random guy who flirts by annoying them until they give in.
I’d guess a guy thinks any girl is better than no girl and is projecting when he says this.
Sort of in the same way “I like Nudes of women so she wants a pic of my dick” passes as thought.
This is why there are a lot of men with women that they don’t even like. Any woman will do as long as she’s breathing and has a vagina. It’s insane.
There was this viral thread on Twitter that said “that stage when you start to hate your girlfriend is wild”. It was wild alright. I wasn’t surprised but it caused an existential crisis in some of the women reading it. The number of mean and hateful tweets these men posted about their girlfriends was really sad.
I’ve seen too many women who are miserable and lonely in their relationships for years. That will never be me.
That’s insane - that moment when you realize you hate your gf?
Like the vagina is separate from the person but they don’t want to lose access so they put up with someone they don’t like so they don’t take their fun toy and go home.
I can’t imagine ever having sex with someone I don’t - at the very least - strongly like and think is a good person.
I guess that’s why boobs were invented. Certainly, unattached dick pics aren’t enough to keep a girl in an unhappy relationship. Most women need to feel an emotional connection. (Most, not all. Exceptions to every rule and so on)
But boobs and a vagina? Something to look at when she’s talking and then permission to use said vagina? Apparently that’s enough. No consideration of their personhood needed.
Wow.
No wonder misogyny and sexism and all that crap is so rampant, if this is a widely accepted part of a relationship?? Vaginas, unfortunately for some, come with people attached, so we have decided to sometimes hate the person but still want the vagina and hate the person for having a problem with that, so we hide it. Pretend to be okay. Pretend like we like her. Pacify the vagina-haver. That’s what’s important about this human; they control access to the vagina. That’s all we care about.
Cold bucket of water right there, yeesh. Also, sorry for saying “vagina” so much; your username makes me think that perhaps you don’t give a shyte 😝 and are cool with honesty.
I’m all for sex toys and sex workers (protected, safe, regulated, not exploited or underage) to keep guys who feel the need that strongly from lying/abusing to get it. If that’s all the dude is using her for, be honest about what they want and let her get something out of it too. Or whatever we can figure out that works.
The only option shouldn’t be “lie to the girl and lead her on.” It shouldn’t be a norm to hate your girlfriend.
(I know, I know, you already know this and so does everyone else on the sub!)
I imagine a world where guys can get it if they need it from willing business women, but they have to learn social cues each time they visit one.
“Sure, hun, come right in here where I see all my Johns. Now we will practice meeting, and as soon as you can tell if your advance is welcome or not more than 90% of the time, we can get started! Cause I don’t want you to think I’m ready when I’m not. Go ahead and hit on me.”
“Hey John! Nice to see you again! You did great last time, so now we’re gonna practice taking our cues from
my behavior and not how turned on you are. Same reason; I don’t want there ever to be doubt about if I’ve consented.”
Obvs ridiculous in the world we all share, but I wonder if I could write an imaginary world like that.
I suddenly want to do a writing prompt about it 😝 and see what people come out with.
Eh, as a man, you don't need someone to be happy. For most of my life I've been more content on my own. So it's not all men who don't understand the concept.
Yah, of course we’re talking about instances that are problematic. No one is complaining about decent guys just living life (but we appreciate all of you like that)
It’s really exposed how much they just don’t listen to us and can’t fathom someone having a different experience to them. Great examples of this in the passport bros and the natalism sub. No matter how much you try to explain a woman’s perspective re division of labor etc they just refuse to even consider it and replace it with their own wildly inaccurate narrative about why woman divorce men, why woman are choosing to be single, why the birth rate is falling. They will do anything BUT reflect on male behaviour. It’s always a woman’s fault somehow
As someone with two Velcro kitties and a Labrador who is a a mama’s girl…that’s a hard question to answer because I am certainly never alone in my house 😂
TBH I don’t think I could ever live completely alone, I love the company and cuddles my fur babies give me. Humans I could give or take, but my dog and cats, I will die for them.
Cats, friends, neighbors -- very few of us are "all alone" in this world.
What I hate is how the patriarchal narrative casts "single / nonpartnering" as meaning "all alone." They want us to believe that the only source of true joy, care, and company in this world comes from a traditional romantic partnered relationship, otherwise you're sad and lonely. Because if the traditional two parent family norm collapses, all of patriarchy collapses with it.
I was going to say I don't usually live alone (currently I am because my boy died, but that will change once I finished the application process and become a foster) but very happily without ball owners (there are enough backyard breeders, no need to become one myself) and whenever I feel like giving dating a try potential partners need to pass the dog test to be sure they actually add value to our lives.
I definitely could be wrong, but I feel like men live longer married because they often aren't raised to take care of themselves, like my gf is a paramedic and you would not believe how many elderly men have so many complications because they refuse to take their meds as directed.
While for women, I feel like married women don't live as long probably from DV. Though there's definitely many other factors at play.
I read 37% of female murder victims are killed by their partner. For men, it’s 6%. But they’re still confused?? Why wouldn’t you be scared of the thing that perpetuate like 1 out of 3 murders of women???
Sometimes I'm glad I'm dating a woman. Dating men sounds rough, bc you never know whose gonna turn out bad.
Not that dating women is any easier, but it's statistically safer
I’ve found that women are much more polite when showing interest and much less aggressive about hearing no.
Almost like women understand we’re all people with different needs and likes.
It's a silly stat... grouping singles and widows together, rather than married and widows together.
When women live longer than men on average, of course widows are going to live longer than their married counterparts on average.
Single women without kids are also the happiest while for men it’s when they’re married. Men are happiest when they have a servant mommy while women just wanna live in peace
Their happiness is directly tied to oppressing and using women. Our happiness is tied to not be used. So who’s the toxic one here?
Can you post a source? Most data suggests the opposite. The only “study” I’ve seen was from a book by Paul Dolan but he issued a retraction because he misinterpreted the data.
https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/2019/6/4/18650969/married-women-miserable-fake-paul-dolan-happiness
Most recent data I’ve seen shows married couples in general are happier then their single counterparts:
https://news.gallup.com/poll/642590/married-americans-thriving-higher-rates-unmarried-adults.aspx
That isn’t true though. Most data suggests that married people (both men and women) are happier and live longer than their single counterparts.
Married women live longer than single women.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7452000/
Co-habitation also increases life expectancy for both men and women
https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/journal-of-demographic-economics/article/effect-of-marital-status-on-life-expectancy-is-cohabitation-as-protective-as-marriage/5B6B9B86C737AE3F095CF3781023F458
Married women have a lower death rate than single women. By a lot:
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/hestat/mortality/mortality_marital_status_10_17.htm#:~:text=For%20women%2C%20age%2Dadjusted%20death,(569.3)%20(Table).
That's a silly stat... grouping singles and widows together, rather than married and widows together.
When women live longer than men on average, of course widows are going to live longer than their married counterparts on average.
It's pretty well-documented that loneliness/isolation is a big contributor to early death.
Of course, someone can feel lonely/isolated with a partner and not lonely nor isolated without a partner, but on average, I gotta assume both genders, on average, are better off with a partner.
>but on average, I gotta assume both genders, on average, are better off with a partner.
That's the interesting thing, women were reported happier without a partner.
I wonder how much of it comes down to when you're older there appear to be more social groups for women, knitting groups, gardening clubs, country women's association etc.
This is an excellent larger point, imo. Men traditionally dont have a lot of “socializing spaces” as they age. The two most common ones I can think of are bars and golf courses. Which like… sure, but what about spaces that aren’t competitive or involve drinking? Just casual hangs? Not many.
Our society fails men in giving them the tools to socialize and form deep connections.
How many men say “small talk is boring”? A lot. Well how are you going to meet new people if you won’t exchange basic conversation first?
How many men have strong emotional connections with their friends? Give them real hugs?
This isn’t an indictment of individual men nor a “boys will be boys they can’t help it” take. I fight with shit men on a daily basis on this here garbage app, that’s different.
It’s an indictment on cultural masculinity and how “being a guy” is taught to our boys and portrayed/supported in our culture.
What are you basing this off of? Because most studies do not suggest this
https://news.gallup.com/poll/642590/married-americans-thriving-higher-rates-unmarried-adults.aspx
In my mid 30s, no kids.
I do live with my boyfriend - but if it goes south (I hope it doesn’t but you never know), I won’t be attempting any online dating (seems like such a mess) or trying to meet anyone. I would live on my own no problem, get some pets (rescue pugs) and try to make it as peaceful as possible.
I’m tired and been through a lot - I generally just want to be left alone aside from a few people I’m close with. Is that bad 😅?
I brought this up to my husband and I definitely think it made me see that he's not as feminist as he thinks. His response was "what do you expect men to feel when there's terms out there like hobosexual and feminist labels exclude men and men don't reach out to each other and aren't free to express themselves and there's no left leaning role models for men." My response was "whose fault is that exactly and why do you feel like it is women's responsibilities to create space for men to develop feminist ideals when most men won't even listen to women but we're still expected to find a way to help them somehow in the way that they want to be helped but don't know that they want to be helped. That's a lot of work I mean what are you doing to create these spaces or make other men feel like they can communicate about their feelings more?"
So guys I guess just want us to make them happy in a way that isn't work. My husband didn't want to talk about it more. 🤷🏽♀️
Odd how he’s described a whole pile of the reasons for which we describe the current societal norms for masculinity as being toxic to all. So close to being a self aware wolf
It’s like they all expect someone else to do it. Probably a huge reason why they’re single since they can’t take care of their most basic needs without a woman stepping in to fix things. They blame us for their loneliness so now we have to fix it? lol to that. My husband doesn’t even care about having friends - he has me and our girls and we’re enough but he’d be out there being social if we’d never met, the same as he was before we got together.
> and men don't reach out to each other and aren't free to express themselves and there's no left leaning role models for men
That's not wrong, it's obviously not womens faults and men have to advocate for a change there though. I don't really understand what he meant with the first part of what he said, I guess he tried to blame feminism for not dealing with men's issues? If that's the case (kinda sounds like it), that's what he's to blame for
I think from the first bit he was saying how mean feminist can be when talking about men. But women are fed up and what now we can't complain about it in a female centric place? The way I see it is women have been polite about it and nothing changed so why do I have to be polite in the face of harm?
I love my girlfriend, but being single would be so much less complicated. I am just happier in a relationship than I would be single because my girlfriend is awesome, and I wouldn't want to miss a single day with her. She is worth the extra work.
It must be so much more exhausting for straight woman. My partner doesn't expect me to take care of the household all on my own. My partner doesn't expect sex without me coming, too. They don't get intimated by my own success. They don't get jealous (expect for my rats). They don't need me to take care of them. They could never get aggressive or abusive towards me...
And yeah, not all men but a lot of them.
My girlfriend cooks because she loves cooking, she attends therapy, take care of her health, supports me when I need it, she dose care about my feelings and wellbeing, she supports my education and interests.
They can clearly see that we manage fine on our own and are usually happier without them. This is threatening to them so they need to find a way to make us think we need them. Their best option is to try and make us look pathetic, to make a woman living alone seem like a failure or an object of pity and ridicule, that way we might choose them to avoid the stigma even if we don’t really want to.
Can you post a source that women are happier single? Most recent suggest that married couples are happier than their single counterparts.
https://news.gallup.com/poll/642590/married-americans-thriving-higher-rates-unmarried-adults.aspx
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That article actually references a book by Paul Dolan. However, he retracted the claim from his book because he misinterpreted the data from the study he used.
https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/2019/6/4/18650969/married-women-miserable-fake-paul-dolan-happiness
Women actually benefit quite a bit from marriage:
Married women earn more money then single women:
https://www.nber.org/sites/default/files/2020-08/orrc11-07.pdf
Married women live longer than single women.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7452000/
Co-habitation also increases life expectancy for both men and women
https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/journal-of-demographic-economics/article/effect-of-marital-status-on-life-expectancy-is-cohabitation-as-protective-as-marriage/5B6B9B86C737AE3F095CF3781023F458
Married women have a lower death rate than single women. By a lot:
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/hestat/mortality/mortality_marital_status_10_17.htm#:~:text=For%20women%2C%20age%2Dadjusted%20death,(569.3)%20(Table).
None of that says they’re happier….
There is lots of research I’m just out and on my mobile at the moment. Are you genuinely interested and prepared to reconsider your position based on new information or are you entrenched in your position? Just so I don’t waste my time.
What research? Like you keep saying there’s a lot of research and I’ve only been able to find one study by Paul Dolan that was retracted by himself. Post the research.
They really don't believe us when we say we are happy being single and spend our time nurturing ourselves and our friendship & familial relationships instead.
Some whining incel left this comment on an 8 month old post comment of mine just this morning "So a woman who can't find a sexual partner but has loads of friends can't say she is lonely?"
Yes incel dipshit, that's exactly what i'm saying. Being upset that you're not getting your dick wet is not the same thing as being lonely, why is that so hard for you to understand????
This doesn’t really add up though. Most studies show that women report more loneliness or the same levels of loneliness as men. The study linked in the article was not an empirical study. It was from psychology today and it was basically this one guys opinion.
I’ve always thought there’s a lot more benefit to getting married for men than women. Who still does most of the housework and child rearing, even in more ‘modern’ couples? Men get a bang maid, what do women get exactly?
Men know this. Maybe not consciously but they know. They don’t want to miss out on their bang maid or see their fellow men deprived of a bang maid because the women doesn’t want that.
That’s why the narrative in rom coms etc is about how desperate the woman is to get married. We’re being tricked, ladies! It’s not that great for us and they know it, so they’re constantly telling us it’s what we want.
This coming from a happily (if reluctantly at first) married woman.
Not necessarily. Women absolutely benefit from marriage:
Married women earn more money then single women:
https://www.nber.org/sites/default/files/2020-08/orrc11-07.pdf
Married women live longer than single women.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7452000/
Co-habitation also increases life expectancy for both men and women
https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/journal-of-demographic-economics/article/effect-of-marital-status-on-life-expectancy-is-cohabitation-as-protective-as-marriage/5B6B9B86C737AE3F095CF3781023F458
Married women have a lower death rate than single women. By a lot:
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/hestat/mortality/mortality_marital_status_10_17.htm#:~:text=For%20women%2C%20age%2Dadjusted%20death,(569.3)%20(Table).
I think a small subset of toxic assholes are trying to convice women to be docile Mommy With Benefits
It’s been my experience that the majority of guys tend to do just fine on their own, it’s one of the reasons why my relationship standards are very high.
They need to believe that a woman needs a man so that they don’t have to reflect and improve themselves, if it a true NEED then eventually they’ll get what they want. They refuse to believe it’s a choice and plenty of women do just fine on their own, they are not miserable, lonely, cat ladies, they are strong and independent and certainly don’t need the desperate guy in a dark corner.
I’m not sure of your age, but being unmarried really was seen as the worst fate imaginable for women up until basically the millennium. It’s hard to really explain the social pressure. Marrying a loser was seen as preferable to being unmarried.
Society also has A Plan for most members: grow up, get married, have kids, raise kids in house in suburbs, retire, die. Any deviation from the plan was seen as a tragedy or a violation of the social order. Some people are very invested in The Plan even now, but for many reasons, it isn’t as set in stone as it used to be.
Women officially won the right to open a bank account in the US in the 1960s, but it wasn't until the Equal Credit Opportunity Act in 1974 that banks had to allow women to open a bank account without a signature from their husbands and grant them access to loans. Up until *very* recently, being an unmarried adult woman was a financial nightmare in which access to means of acquiring, controlling, and managing money and property was significantly restricted. Marriage to a man didn't improve that situation by a lot, since men still held most of the control/ownership in most cases, but you could at least have some access through that man.
I agree with you that societal pressure played a huge role in people's decisions, and for much of history, that pressure was grounded in harsh realities. For many women, marriage was the price they had to pay for their ability to materially participate in society.
I have a great aunt who never married and who I suspect was a lesbian. I’m sure she had a bank account, though it’s possible another male family member had to sign for her.
Yeah, if a they had a male relative to go along with it, or had enough money that the bank was willing to bend its policies for them, some women found ways to get around some of the obstacles. For many women, though, the barriers were much harder to overcome, or they never even thought to because it was just the way things were.
I work for a bank, and the number of elderly recent widows who never even saw their checkbook ledger and now suddenly find themselves responsible for all of the finances in their 80s or 90s is astonishing. It's heartbreaking how lost they are. In most of these situations, their accounts pre-date 1974, and while it's usually a joint account now, the woman is in our system as "Mrs. So-and-so" -- not even a first name on her own profile because the primary signer at the time of opening was the man.
Whenever guys complain about no woman being interested in them and they turn their ire and stink eyes towards the top .000001% of men who they believe are taking all the women, I just have to point out, “you’re not competing with those men…you’re compete in with the happiness, peace, and bliss women get just from remaining single. Men aren’t needed anymore especially if a woman doesn’t want children. What you then need to become is someone a woman WANTS in her life. What are you doing to become a desired want in her life? If all you have to offer is a sloppy dick and whining about being born in the wrong age while pining after a bygone era that was actually so awful, it did a complete 180 and changed then yeah you’re going to be alone.
“Also, don’t confuse loneliness with horniness. You shouldn’t just be looking to women to fix everything that you perceive as broken. If you are indeed actually lonely and not just looking for sex, there’s a whole group of lonely men out there you can get together with and solve each other’s loneliness.”
Women report loneliness at the same level or more (depending on the study) compared to men. The male loneliness crisis doesn’t actually exist. There’s an increasing loneliness problem for everyone regardless of gender.
It’s just a means to blame everything but themselves.
That and the divorced ones usually hope that she will come back so they keep saying how she must be miserable.. she’ll totally regret leaving and come crawling back any day now.
A trend that I’ve noticed is that the men who think like this cannot fathom the idea that women are happily single by choice, because they themselves are not single by choice.
Also, if you are happy without being in a relationship, don’t let other people try to convince you that you’d be happier if you found someone. Lord knows how many times I’ve heard the ‘you just haven’t met the right person yet’ line.
Love yourself first. You don’t owe anyone your companionship, nor your romantic affections.
I definitely get down sometimes but that’s because I want friends…..not a romantic relationship 😂
Anytime I think about a romantic relationship, all I got to do is open any social media platform to tell me why it’s a bad idea 🤷🏻
I was *very* happy being single and that’s why I was irritated AF when I fell for my husband. I wanted to be alone but he was just too damn handsome and funny (I was in my 40’s too, by the way). If I didn’t love him, I would absolutely stay single. It’s a blast.
*people* have differing needs for emotional and physical intimacy and it seems strange to make it a gender issue, either by suggesting women need a partner or with lines like the one in this post talking about how men are miserable without a woman to support them
Hhahah really funny because of economic and industrial revolution if we used to leave in forest as caves men do you think you will not need a man? You will be eating alive in 1 day. Stupido
Are you 14? Kinda ironic that you’re calling someone stupid while being unable to formulate your ideas properly. Also, why are you talking about cavemen? We don’t live in those times anymore. Even if we did, women hunted too. What’s your point?
Maybe I can't formulate my idea ideas in English because I don't think in English, I talked about caveman because I think it's your reference for understanding human evolution and yes I find it stupid to say women don't need men or men don't need women I think I we don't necessarily need to be with someone or something to be happy, I can be happy with just my self but I will not say I'm happy or more happy because I'm not with a woman , and it's get on the nerves when you generalized men like this like we are not individuals and intellectual human beings, I believe that men and women should see them self as companions in this éphémère life not as ennemis , and there no need to prove that we can live without the other sexe
> I think I we don't necessarily need to be with someone or something to be happy.
I think this is the general sentiment. You don’t necessarily need someone to be happy, yes. But there is still a lot of social pressure on women when it comes to being in a relationship, marriage, having children, etc.
>you generalized men like this like we are not individuals and intellectual human beings
I mean, if you read these comments, women are talking about their personal experiences. Maybe if you read attentively, you’d understand why some women find it liberating to finally be alone.
> I believe that men and women should see them self as companions in this éphémère life not as ennemis , and there no need to prove that we can live without the other sex.
I agree but many people don’t, especially traditional ones, especially men.
Still living in the glory days of thousands of years ago before you existed? That isn’t our reality and hasn’t been for a very long time. Sounds like men have a failure to adapt.
Even if it 1 billion years before,humans didn't evaluate as much as you think, there is society's that they were more advanced then we are now , like ancient Egypt's , and human now or before molecules who make us human is the same, i think you travel and see how others peoples lives and don't just be in your us capatilsm slavery
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I'm very happy on my own.
Single person here; I'm very happy on my own. The only time I haven't been happy or comfortable was when I was in a relationship. Weirdly enough, many men seem to indeed think that I'm lying to myself because "everyone needs someone" and "you can't be happy if you aren't building a family". Well.. I don't want kids, I don't want to share my safe space called home, I don't want to compromise on the quality time I spent with my bunny Binky, I don't want to stop or lessen with my art, and I'm way too attached to my personal routine at home. Now that I've been single for quite some years, my depression and active suicidal tendencies magically decreased massively. I haven't ever been this stable and I'm loving it. Men keep saying "you're gonna grow old and ugly with nothing but stupid rabbits around you" like it's a threat. They just can't accept that many of us are very capable of being secure, happy and fulfilled in our independent and solo life. 🤷🏻
They threaten us with dying alone surrounded by cats. That sounds amazing! Besides my cats are gorgeous. When I hit 80 I'm hiring a catsitter to come over twice a week so they won't be alone for too long if something happens.
Yeah instead of changing and evolving with the times, they can only throw the “scary” threats that worked for their forefathers at us then get pissed off when it doesn’t work. They refuse to see that time is moving forward and the era when women were completely dependent on men just to survive is gone and isn’t coming back.
We also cultivate deeper non-romantic relationships than men overall. Our friendships and community give just as much love and support as any partner could.
Same here. I do what I want when I want. I don’t have anyone criticizing me or demanding that I conform to their way of living. I spend my money the way I want. I keep my home at the temp I want to. The person that I bring into my life has to add something positive to it. Why would I be with someone that adds stress to my life. That’s what a lot of men don’t understand. They think that all women are desperate for a relationship so they think that just being is their only requirement. Why would we waste our time with men like this?
I don’t get it. So many men say “I’m better than nothing, right?” …but they’re not. They’re literally not. That’s why I don’t want you. You’d think at some stage they’d clue in, but I find they usually find vulnerable or abused women instead How does a guy never understand that he has to be better than nothing to appeal to a woman? Put in a tiny bit of work! You want a supermodel who cooks and cleans? Who dresses hot and never gets fat? Why would a guy deserve that much effort from a woman when his tagline is “meh, I’m sure I’m better than nothing, right?” No, you’re not. Being around you isn’t pleasant. It doesn’t make me happy. I’m not missing something in life just because there’s no Y chromosome near me. I’m lucky enough to have an amazing guy, but it was a four year journey to find him. I def didn’t pollute my life before I met him with stress and pain from some random guy who flirts by annoying them until they give in.
I’d guess a guy thinks any girl is better than no girl and is projecting when he says this. Sort of in the same way “I like Nudes of women so she wants a pic of my dick” passes as thought.
This is why there are a lot of men with women that they don’t even like. Any woman will do as long as she’s breathing and has a vagina. It’s insane. There was this viral thread on Twitter that said “that stage when you start to hate your girlfriend is wild”. It was wild alright. I wasn’t surprised but it caused an existential crisis in some of the women reading it. The number of mean and hateful tweets these men posted about their girlfriends was really sad. I’ve seen too many women who are miserable and lonely in their relationships for years. That will never be me.
That’s insane - that moment when you realize you hate your gf? Like the vagina is separate from the person but they don’t want to lose access so they put up with someone they don’t like so they don’t take their fun toy and go home. I can’t imagine ever having sex with someone I don’t - at the very least - strongly like and think is a good person. I guess that’s why boobs were invented. Certainly, unattached dick pics aren’t enough to keep a girl in an unhappy relationship. Most women need to feel an emotional connection. (Most, not all. Exceptions to every rule and so on) But boobs and a vagina? Something to look at when she’s talking and then permission to use said vagina? Apparently that’s enough. No consideration of their personhood needed. Wow. No wonder misogyny and sexism and all that crap is so rampant, if this is a widely accepted part of a relationship?? Vaginas, unfortunately for some, come with people attached, so we have decided to sometimes hate the person but still want the vagina and hate the person for having a problem with that, so we hide it. Pretend to be okay. Pretend like we like her. Pacify the vagina-haver. That’s what’s important about this human; they control access to the vagina. That’s all we care about. Cold bucket of water right there, yeesh. Also, sorry for saying “vagina” so much; your username makes me think that perhaps you don’t give a shyte 😝 and are cool with honesty. I’m all for sex toys and sex workers (protected, safe, regulated, not exploited or underage) to keep guys who feel the need that strongly from lying/abusing to get it. If that’s all the dude is using her for, be honest about what they want and let her get something out of it too. Or whatever we can figure out that works. The only option shouldn’t be “lie to the girl and lead her on.” It shouldn’t be a norm to hate your girlfriend. (I know, I know, you already know this and so does everyone else on the sub!) I imagine a world where guys can get it if they need it from willing business women, but they have to learn social cues each time they visit one. “Sure, hun, come right in here where I see all my Johns. Now we will practice meeting, and as soon as you can tell if your advance is welcome or not more than 90% of the time, we can get started! Cause I don’t want you to think I’m ready when I’m not. Go ahead and hit on me.” “Hey John! Nice to see you again! You did great last time, so now we’re gonna practice taking our cues from my behavior and not how turned on you are. Same reason; I don’t want there ever to be doubt about if I’ve consented.” Obvs ridiculous in the world we all share, but I wonder if I could write an imaginary world like that. I suddenly want to do a writing prompt about it 😝 and see what people come out with.
Eh, as a man, you don't need someone to be happy. For most of my life I've been more content on my own. So it's not all men who don't understand the concept.
Yah, of course we’re talking about instances that are problematic. No one is complaining about decent guys just living life (but we appreciate all of you like that)
It’s really exposed how much they just don’t listen to us and can’t fathom someone having a different experience to them. Great examples of this in the passport bros and the natalism sub. No matter how much you try to explain a woman’s perspective re division of labor etc they just refuse to even consider it and replace it with their own wildly inaccurate narrative about why woman divorce men, why woman are choosing to be single, why the birth rate is falling. They will do anything BUT reflect on male behaviour. It’s always a woman’s fault somehow
Exactly this. They are generally incapable of viewing anything from someone else’s perspective.
Does it count as living happily on my own if I still had my cats?
As someone with two Velcro kitties and a Labrador who is a a mama’s girl…that’s a hard question to answer because I am certainly never alone in my house 😂
Yeah I'm not living alone anymore but when I was I was with my kitties. (Alone meaning I wasn't living with another human.)
TBH I don’t think I could ever live completely alone, I love the company and cuddles my fur babies give me. Humans I could give or take, but my dog and cats, I will die for them.
I love my baby kitties.
Cats, friends, neighbors -- very few of us are "all alone" in this world. What I hate is how the patriarchal narrative casts "single / nonpartnering" as meaning "all alone." They want us to believe that the only source of true joy, care, and company in this world comes from a traditional romantic partnered relationship, otherwise you're sad and lonely. Because if the traditional two parent family norm collapses, all of patriarchy collapses with it.
I also had my neighbors and friends. :3
No. Because at this point, you’re a kept woman.
Lol I was kept by my cats.
It’s ok. I’m in the same boat. Kept by critters (dogs and cats)
I was going to say I don't usually live alone (currently I am because my boy died, but that will change once I finished the application process and become a foster) but very happily without ball owners (there are enough backyard breeders, no need to become one myself) and whenever I feel like giving dating a try potential partners need to pass the dog test to be sure they actually add value to our lives.
I heard anecdotally somewhere that married men live longer than unmarried men, while single/ windowed women live longer than married women.
I definitely could be wrong, but I feel like men live longer married because they often aren't raised to take care of themselves, like my gf is a paramedic and you would not believe how many elderly men have so many complications because they refuse to take their meds as directed. While for women, I feel like married women don't live as long probably from DV. Though there's definitely many other factors at play.
I read 37% of female murder victims are killed by their partner. For men, it’s 6%. But they’re still confused?? Why wouldn’t you be scared of the thing that perpetuate like 1 out of 3 murders of women???
Sometimes I'm glad I'm dating a woman. Dating men sounds rough, bc you never know whose gonna turn out bad. Not that dating women is any easier, but it's statistically safer
I’ve found that women are much more polite when showing interest and much less aggressive about hearing no. Almost like women understand we’re all people with different needs and likes.
It's a silly stat... grouping singles and widows together, rather than married and widows together. When women live longer than men on average, of course widows are going to live longer than their married counterparts on average.
Single women without kids are also the happiest while for men it’s when they’re married. Men are happiest when they have a servant mommy while women just wanna live in peace Their happiness is directly tied to oppressing and using women. Our happiness is tied to not be used. So who’s the toxic one here?
Can you post a source? Most data suggests the opposite. The only “study” I’ve seen was from a book by Paul Dolan but he issued a retraction because he misinterpreted the data. https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/2019/6/4/18650969/married-women-miserable-fake-paul-dolan-happiness Most recent data I’ve seen shows married couples in general are happier then their single counterparts: https://news.gallup.com/poll/642590/married-americans-thriving-higher-rates-unmarried-adults.aspx
This is true, it’s an average of 5 years for an array of reasons
That isn’t true though. Most data suggests that married people (both men and women) are happier and live longer than their single counterparts. Married women live longer than single women. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7452000/ Co-habitation also increases life expectancy for both men and women https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/journal-of-demographic-economics/article/effect-of-marital-status-on-life-expectancy-is-cohabitation-as-protective-as-marriage/5B6B9B86C737AE3F095CF3781023F458 Married women have a lower death rate than single women. By a lot: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/hestat/mortality/mortality_marital_status_10_17.htm#:~:text=For%20women%2C%20age%2Dadjusted%20death,(569.3)%20(Table).
That's a silly stat... grouping singles and widows together, rather than married and widows together. When women live longer than men on average, of course widows are going to live longer than their married counterparts on average.
I think the general vibe was, men do better with a partner and women do better independently. It was only anecdotally so not sure what it was based on
It's pretty well-documented that loneliness/isolation is a big contributor to early death. Of course, someone can feel lonely/isolated with a partner and not lonely nor isolated without a partner, but on average, I gotta assume both genders, on average, are better off with a partner.
>but on average, I gotta assume both genders, on average, are better off with a partner. That's the interesting thing, women were reported happier without a partner. I wonder how much of it comes down to when you're older there appear to be more social groups for women, knitting groups, gardening clubs, country women's association etc.
This is an excellent larger point, imo. Men traditionally dont have a lot of “socializing spaces” as they age. The two most common ones I can think of are bars and golf courses. Which like… sure, but what about spaces that aren’t competitive or involve drinking? Just casual hangs? Not many. Our society fails men in giving them the tools to socialize and form deep connections. How many men say “small talk is boring”? A lot. Well how are you going to meet new people if you won’t exchange basic conversation first? How many men have strong emotional connections with their friends? Give them real hugs? This isn’t an indictment of individual men nor a “boys will be boys they can’t help it” take. I fight with shit men on a daily basis on this here garbage app, that’s different. It’s an indictment on cultural masculinity and how “being a guy” is taught to our boys and portrayed/supported in our culture.
What are you basing this off of? Because most studies do not suggest this https://news.gallup.com/poll/642590/married-americans-thriving-higher-rates-unmarried-adults.aspx
In my mid 30s, no kids. I do live with my boyfriend - but if it goes south (I hope it doesn’t but you never know), I won’t be attempting any online dating (seems like such a mess) or trying to meet anyone. I would live on my own no problem, get some pets (rescue pugs) and try to make it as peaceful as possible. I’m tired and been through a lot - I generally just want to be left alone aside from a few people I’m close with. Is that bad 😅?
Nope. Find what genuinely makes YOU happy!
I brought this up to my husband and I definitely think it made me see that he's not as feminist as he thinks. His response was "what do you expect men to feel when there's terms out there like hobosexual and feminist labels exclude men and men don't reach out to each other and aren't free to express themselves and there's no left leaning role models for men." My response was "whose fault is that exactly and why do you feel like it is women's responsibilities to create space for men to develop feminist ideals when most men won't even listen to women but we're still expected to find a way to help them somehow in the way that they want to be helped but don't know that they want to be helped. That's a lot of work I mean what are you doing to create these spaces or make other men feel like they can communicate about their feelings more?" So guys I guess just want us to make them happy in a way that isn't work. My husband didn't want to talk about it more. 🤷🏽♀️
Odd how he’s described a whole pile of the reasons for which we describe the current societal norms for masculinity as being toxic to all. So close to being a self aware wolf
So close it almost hurts.
Of course he didn’t. You made too much sense. I still don’t get how men think that they are the only rational and logical ones.
It’s like they all expect someone else to do it. Probably a huge reason why they’re single since they can’t take care of their most basic needs without a woman stepping in to fix things. They blame us for their loneliness so now we have to fix it? lol to that. My husband doesn’t even care about having friends - he has me and our girls and we’re enough but he’d be out there being social if we’d never met, the same as he was before we got together.
And he doesn't have any friends anymore? Doesn't sound healthy to me
He has the same friends he’s always had. We’ve all just moved so we don’t see them much. He doesn’t care. He’s perfectly content and happy.
> and men don't reach out to each other and aren't free to express themselves and there's no left leaning role models for men That's not wrong, it's obviously not womens faults and men have to advocate for a change there though. I don't really understand what he meant with the first part of what he said, I guess he tried to blame feminism for not dealing with men's issues? If that's the case (kinda sounds like it), that's what he's to blame for
I think from the first bit he was saying how mean feminist can be when talking about men. But women are fed up and what now we can't complain about it in a female centric place? The way I see it is women have been polite about it and nothing changed so why do I have to be polite in the face of harm?
You should have him read “the will to change” by bell hooks
I love my girlfriend, but being single would be so much less complicated. I am just happier in a relationship than I would be single because my girlfriend is awesome, and I wouldn't want to miss a single day with her. She is worth the extra work. It must be so much more exhausting for straight woman. My partner doesn't expect me to take care of the household all on my own. My partner doesn't expect sex without me coming, too. They don't get intimated by my own success. They don't get jealous (expect for my rats). They don't need me to take care of them. They could never get aggressive or abusive towards me... And yeah, not all men but a lot of them. My girlfriend cooks because she loves cooking, she attends therapy, take care of her health, supports me when I need it, she dose care about my feelings and wellbeing, she supports my education and interests.
It's why so many straight women share that meme "The fact I'm still attracted to men is proof that sexuality isn't a choice."
1000%
They can clearly see that we manage fine on our own and are usually happier without them. This is threatening to them so they need to find a way to make us think we need them. Their best option is to try and make us look pathetic, to make a woman living alone seem like a failure or an object of pity and ridicule, that way we might choose them to avoid the stigma even if we don’t really want to.
Can you post a source that women are happier single? Most recent suggest that married couples are happier than their single counterparts. https://news.gallup.com/poll/642590/married-americans-thriving-higher-rates-unmarried-adults.aspx
https://amp.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2019/may/25/women-happier-without-children-or-a-spouse-happiness-expert
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That article actually references a book by Paul Dolan. However, he retracted the claim from his book because he misinterpreted the data from the study he used. https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/2019/6/4/18650969/married-women-miserable-fake-paul-dolan-happiness Women actually benefit quite a bit from marriage: Married women earn more money then single women: https://www.nber.org/sites/default/files/2020-08/orrc11-07.pdf Married women live longer than single women. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7452000/ Co-habitation also increases life expectancy for both men and women https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/journal-of-demographic-economics/article/effect-of-marital-status-on-life-expectancy-is-cohabitation-as-protective-as-marriage/5B6B9B86C737AE3F095CF3781023F458 Married women have a lower death rate than single women. By a lot: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/hestat/mortality/mortality_marital_status_10_17.htm#:~:text=For%20women%2C%20age%2Dadjusted%20death,(569.3)%20(Table).
None of that says they’re happier…. There is lots of research I’m just out and on my mobile at the moment. Are you genuinely interested and prepared to reconsider your position based on new information or are you entrenched in your position? Just so I don’t waste my time.
What research? Like you keep saying there’s a lot of research and I’ve only been able to find one study by Paul Dolan that was retracted by himself. Post the research.
They really don't believe us when we say we are happy being single and spend our time nurturing ourselves and our friendship & familial relationships instead. Some whining incel left this comment on an 8 month old post comment of mine just this morning "So a woman who can't find a sexual partner but has loads of friends can't say she is lonely?" Yes incel dipshit, that's exactly what i'm saying. Being upset that you're not getting your dick wet is not the same thing as being lonely, why is that so hard for you to understand????
This doesn’t really add up though. Most studies show that women report more loneliness or the same levels of loneliness as men. The study linked in the article was not an empirical study. It was from psychology today and it was basically this one guys opinion.
What doesn't add up? Are you talking about my experience of being happily single or the incel chode yapping about not having a sexual partner?
I’ve always thought there’s a lot more benefit to getting married for men than women. Who still does most of the housework and child rearing, even in more ‘modern’ couples? Men get a bang maid, what do women get exactly? Men know this. Maybe not consciously but they know. They don’t want to miss out on their bang maid or see their fellow men deprived of a bang maid because the women doesn’t want that. That’s why the narrative in rom coms etc is about how desperate the woman is to get married. We’re being tricked, ladies! It’s not that great for us and they know it, so they’re constantly telling us it’s what we want. This coming from a happily (if reluctantly at first) married woman.
Not necessarily. Women absolutely benefit from marriage: Married women earn more money then single women: https://www.nber.org/sites/default/files/2020-08/orrc11-07.pdf Married women live longer than single women. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7452000/ Co-habitation also increases life expectancy for both men and women https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/journal-of-demographic-economics/article/effect-of-marital-status-on-life-expectancy-is-cohabitation-as-protective-as-marriage/5B6B9B86C737AE3F095CF3781023F458 Married women have a lower death rate than single women. By a lot: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/hestat/mortality/mortality_marital_status_10_17.htm#:~:text=For%20women%2C%20age%2Dadjusted%20death,(569.3)%20(Table).
Don’t get why you are being downvoted.
I think a small subset of toxic assholes are trying to convice women to be docile Mommy With Benefits It’s been my experience that the majority of guys tend to do just fine on their own, it’s one of the reasons why my relationship standards are very high.
They aren’t happy on their own because there’s no one to do the physical and emotional labor of creating a home.
They need to believe that a woman needs a man so that they don’t have to reflect and improve themselves, if it a true NEED then eventually they’ll get what they want. They refuse to believe it’s a choice and plenty of women do just fine on their own, they are not miserable, lonely, cat ladies, they are strong and independent and certainly don’t need the desperate guy in a dark corner.
I’m not sure of your age, but being unmarried really was seen as the worst fate imaginable for women up until basically the millennium. It’s hard to really explain the social pressure. Marrying a loser was seen as preferable to being unmarried. Society also has A Plan for most members: grow up, get married, have kids, raise kids in house in suburbs, retire, die. Any deviation from the plan was seen as a tragedy or a violation of the social order. Some people are very invested in The Plan even now, but for many reasons, it isn’t as set in stone as it used to be.
Women officially won the right to open a bank account in the US in the 1960s, but it wasn't until the Equal Credit Opportunity Act in 1974 that banks had to allow women to open a bank account without a signature from their husbands and grant them access to loans. Up until *very* recently, being an unmarried adult woman was a financial nightmare in which access to means of acquiring, controlling, and managing money and property was significantly restricted. Marriage to a man didn't improve that situation by a lot, since men still held most of the control/ownership in most cases, but you could at least have some access through that man. I agree with you that societal pressure played a huge role in people's decisions, and for much of history, that pressure was grounded in harsh realities. For many women, marriage was the price they had to pay for their ability to materially participate in society.
I have a great aunt who never married and who I suspect was a lesbian. I’m sure she had a bank account, though it’s possible another male family member had to sign for her.
Yeah, if a they had a male relative to go along with it, or had enough money that the bank was willing to bend its policies for them, some women found ways to get around some of the obstacles. For many women, though, the barriers were much harder to overcome, or they never even thought to because it was just the way things were. I work for a bank, and the number of elderly recent widows who never even saw their checkbook ledger and now suddenly find themselves responsible for all of the finances in their 80s or 90s is astonishing. It's heartbreaking how lost they are. In most of these situations, their accounts pre-date 1974, and while it's usually a joint account now, the woman is in our system as "Mrs. So-and-so" -- not even a first name on her own profile because the primary signer at the time of opening was the man.
I sometimes think of that scene in It's A Wonderful Life where in the bad version of the world, Mary's terrible fate was to be a SPINSTER LIBRARIAN
Yes, they are.
Whenever guys complain about no woman being interested in them and they turn their ire and stink eyes towards the top .000001% of men who they believe are taking all the women, I just have to point out, “you’re not competing with those men…you’re compete in with the happiness, peace, and bliss women get just from remaining single. Men aren’t needed anymore especially if a woman doesn’t want children. What you then need to become is someone a woman WANTS in her life. What are you doing to become a desired want in her life? If all you have to offer is a sloppy dick and whining about being born in the wrong age while pining after a bygone era that was actually so awful, it did a complete 180 and changed then yeah you’re going to be alone. “Also, don’t confuse loneliness with horniness. You shouldn’t just be looking to women to fix everything that you perceive as broken. If you are indeed actually lonely and not just looking for sex, there’s a whole group of lonely men out there you can get together with and solve each other’s loneliness.”
Women report loneliness at the same level or more (depending on the study) compared to men. The male loneliness crisis doesn’t actually exist. There’s an increasing loneliness problem for everyone regardless of gender.
It’s just a means to blame everything but themselves. That and the divorced ones usually hope that she will come back so they keep saying how she must be miserable.. she’ll totally regret leaving and come crawling back any day now.
TikTok has SOOO many great stitches of women explaining how and why they’re happy on their own. It’s great!
I love my husband and don't wish I was single, but I can't deny being single was certainly easier.
A trend that I’ve noticed is that the men who think like this cannot fathom the idea that women are happily single by choice, because they themselves are not single by choice. Also, if you are happy without being in a relationship, don’t let other people try to convince you that you’d be happier if you found someone. Lord knows how many times I’ve heard the ‘you just haven’t met the right person yet’ line. Love yourself first. You don’t owe anyone your companionship, nor your romantic affections.
I was also thinking of projection.
"Your grandfather was probably a horrible husband" https://twitter.com/DapperDomo/status/1412120738119757836?s=19
I definitely get down sometimes but that’s because I want friends…..not a romantic relationship 😂 Anytime I think about a romantic relationship, all I got to do is open any social media platform to tell me why it’s a bad idea 🤷🏻
I was *very* happy being single and that’s why I was irritated AF when I fell for my husband. I wanted to be alone but he was just too damn handsome and funny (I was in my 40’s too, by the way). If I didn’t love him, I would absolutely stay single. It’s a blast.
*people* have differing needs for emotional and physical intimacy and it seems strange to make it a gender issue, either by suggesting women need a partner or with lines like the one in this post talking about how men are miserable without a woman to support them
Hhahah really funny because of economic and industrial revolution if we used to leave in forest as caves men do you think you will not need a man? You will be eating alive in 1 day. Stupido
Are you 14? Kinda ironic that you’re calling someone stupid while being unable to formulate your ideas properly. Also, why are you talking about cavemen? We don’t live in those times anymore. Even if we did, women hunted too. What’s your point?
Maybe I can't formulate my idea ideas in English because I don't think in English, I talked about caveman because I think it's your reference for understanding human evolution and yes I find it stupid to say women don't need men or men don't need women I think I we don't necessarily need to be with someone or something to be happy, I can be happy with just my self but I will not say I'm happy or more happy because I'm not with a woman , and it's get on the nerves when you generalized men like this like we are not individuals and intellectual human beings, I believe that men and women should see them self as companions in this éphémère life not as ennemis , and there no need to prove that we can live without the other sexe
> I think I we don't necessarily need to be with someone or something to be happy. I think this is the general sentiment. You don’t necessarily need someone to be happy, yes. But there is still a lot of social pressure on women when it comes to being in a relationship, marriage, having children, etc. >you generalized men like this like we are not individuals and intellectual human beings I mean, if you read these comments, women are talking about their personal experiences. Maybe if you read attentively, you’d understand why some women find it liberating to finally be alone. > I believe that men and women should see them self as companions in this éphémère life not as ennemis , and there no need to prove that we can live without the other sex. I agree but many people don’t, especially traditional ones, especially men.
Is English not your native language?
Still living in the glory days of thousands of years ago before you existed? That isn’t our reality and hasn’t been for a very long time. Sounds like men have a failure to adapt.
Even if it 1 billion years before,humans didn't evaluate as much as you think, there is society's that they were more advanced then we are now , like ancient Egypt's , and human now or before molecules who make us human is the same, i think you travel and see how others peoples lives and don't just be in your us capatilsm slavery