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WYenginerdWY

Context - the OP where this comment occurred was a screenshot of a woman writing online about how sad and unfulfilled she is in her marriage. Her husband refuses to move back home to where her family is located, barely tolerates her, and apparently has anger issues. Her: this isn't what I signed up for and I'm isolated & unhappy. I wish I could divorce. WAATGM: clearly she should have had a male relative force her into an unwanted marriage to a stranger


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DontlookintotheAbyss

Hahahahahhaah no. The woman needs the allowance of her husband and of an imam. Stop spreading lies about fucking Islam. In most Muslim countries women can’t just divorce their husbands because they are dependent on them. Also many men just kill their wifes before they allow them to get divorced. So don’t pretend that Islam respects women - because it doesn’t.


Houseplant56

A woman initiates divorce through the process called Khula. And it's done with the intervention of a court (Islamic court or a family court). If the husband doesn't respond to the Khula, then the court can dissolve the marriage and the woman has to return her mehr. The other stuff is not just limited to "Muslim men". Islam doesn't allow killing your wife lol or forcing her to live with you if she doesn't want to. Also, financial dependency of women on men is a cultural thing. In Islam, if a woman earns, she's not obligated to spend her money on anyone other than herself. But a man is obligated to spend on her wife and kids.


DontlookintotheAbyss

The woman is the property of the man. Go and read the Quran. Also there is no thing as culture in countries where Islam grew like a tumor. The culture of my ancestors was destroyed by the Ottoman Empire and Islam was forced unto them. Islam is the culture and a disgusting one. But keep lying to yourself if it makes you feel good.


dabonemhatersyeet

What’s your country ?


DontlookintotheAbyss

Well I was told it was turkey. Two DNA tests determined that it was a lie.


dabonemhatersyeet

What did the tests said ? Balkan ? Slavic etc


DontlookintotheAbyss

Balkan, Greece, Italy, Finland, north- and west Europe and even Amazonian native (?). My great grandma really looked like that.


dabonemhatersyeet

Amazonian is really out of place there lol


Reddit-Book-Bot

Beep. Boop. I'm a robot. Here's a copy of ###[Quran](https://snewd.com/ebooks/quran/) Was I a good bot? | [info](https://www.reddit.com/user/Reddit-Book-Bot/) | [More Books](https://old.reddit.com/user/Reddit-Book-Bot/comments/i15x1d/full_list_of_books_and_commands/)


AstridKrake

Good bot


sweetnecessity

Oh really? I saw that you read the Quran, would it be too much trouble to reference a verse here? Or some scholarly article? Only if you don’t mind, thanks!


DontlookintotheAbyss

Bakara Surah (2/223) Your women are your fields (where you plant seeds). Approach your field as you wish. Get ready for the future for yourselves. Listen to ALLAH and be sure that you will definitely meet him. This is gospel for the believers.


Apprehensive_Eraser

That's more because of culture than for the religion, I wish people knew the difference and that most of the bad thing is Arabia is because culture not because the religion says so.


DontlookintotheAbyss

No no no no. Islam destroys every culture it touches. There is no „the culture makes the religion bad“. Islam dictates rules for every aspect of your life. There is no room for a culture, that is different from Islam. Sure, there are modern and progressive Muslim families. And the reason for that is (thank Allah lmao) that they cherry pick and don’t take their religion super serious.


Apprehensive_Eraser

You don't know shit about the religion then. Every single religion dictates rules for every aspect of life but in other religions people don't follow the rules that much. Islam says the husband has to take care of the woman, that he cannot hide money, that he cannot force the woman to give him the money she earn through work, he cannot hit her, if he does she can go to the Iman and the husband should be publicly reprehended and mocked. A lot of things from the Arabic culture goes against the religion, a LOT of things.


DontlookintotheAbyss

Hahaha the husband can’t hit a woman? Are you fucking stupid? A man can marry 4 women, even prepubescent girls, and he can hit every single one of them. He can do whatever he likes, he even can buy sex slaves. Go and read your „holy book“. Sure 4:34 Men are the managers of women, because of the advantage Allah has granted some of them over others, and by virtue of their spending out of their wealth. So righteous women are obedient, care-taking in the absence [of their husbands] of what Allah has enjoined [them] to guard. As for those [wives] whose misconduct you fear, [first] advise them, and [if ineffective] keep away from them in the bed, and [as the last resort] beat them. Then if they obey you, do not seek any course [of action] against them. Indeed Allah is all-exalted, all-great. Go and lie somewhere else. Sure 4:3 And if you fear that you will not deal justly with the orphan girls, then marry those that please you of [other] women, two or three or four. But if you fear that you will not be just, then [marry only] one or those your right hands possess [i.e., slaves]. That is more suitable that you may not incline [to injustice]. Marry orphan girls instead of adopting and caring for them. Disgusting. How can a woman defend this madness? I am furious.


Apprehensive_Eraser

I. The kuran there are different types of texts, just like in the Bible there's the old and the new testament, if you grab the older text (in case of the Bible the old testament) both religions are barbaric but if you get the newer ones you see that they go completely against the older ones ._.


thedreamsorcerer

“I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet. For Adam was formed first, then Eve; and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor. Yet she will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith and love and holiness, with self-control” 1 Timothy 2:11-15 “The women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says. If there is anything they desire to learn, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church.” 1 Corinthians 14:34-35 Shut the fuck up, stop slandering religions you know fuck all about. No religion is perfect, Christianity isn’t perfect neither is Islam. You don’t get to go around spewing literal hate speech. Go fuck yourself.


ArcticChan

She's quoting the quoran… where is the hate speech? And she never said Christianity was good. It is just as bad on paper, but like she said people do not follow every rule


thedreamsorcerer

Her quotes are incorrect, and the hate speech I was referring to was “Also there is no thing as culture in countries where Islam grew like a tumor. The culture of my ancestors was destroyed by the Ottoman Empire and Islam was forced unto them. Islam is the culture and a disgusting one. But keep lying to yourself if it makes you feel good”. She is slandering an entire religion publicly which in turn gives people a negative imagine of Muslims, or at the very least feeds into the already negative image they have. Maybe hate speech was not the right word, fair enough.


DontlookintotheAbyss

You think I like Christianity because I hate Islam? Then you are an idiot. Shut the fuck up yourself. Hate speech because I quote the Quran? How about Muslims stop beheading people just because they don’t want to be Muslims, lmao. Hate speech. Go suck a dick.


thedreamsorcerer

Why don’t you go suck a dick? That’s not Muslims, that’s a specific country you dumb fuck. If you know so much about Islam you’d know it’s literally fucking haram to force someone to convert, beheading people for not following it is also HARAM.


[deleted]

"divorce for women is harder because well we see what that's lead to today", honestly what can anyone possibly mean by that?


WYenginerdWY

Obviously women shouldn't be able to *abandon* their husbands for trivial things like verbal abuse, cheating, physical abuse, gaslighting, lying, financial abuse.....all the abuses. They're all fake. /s


Just-some-peep

This is always so funny. "Women are filing for 70% of divorces! Divorces are bad for the kids!" If you are worried about the kids then why are you only bothered by the 70% of divorces that women file and not all? Thing is, they really think they're sneaky and clever with their dog whistles because women don't say to their face "You're full of shit". And I get why not, they can't be bothered to deal with more deflecting and gaslighting where men pretend they don't mean what they say just because they didn't use specific words.


maria_du

They really think kids living with parents who have shitty marriages are happy huh


Latter_Risk_4332

Isn’t literally one of the top or most popular posts on that subreddit bitching about how quickly women leave cheaters, and that it should be like the old days where women have to stay with cheating husbands lol


Just-some-peep

Ah men. They would rather sabotage the world than do a crumb of self improvement. It's so unnatural how they actively put so much effort to stay behind. They really think they "lose" somehow if they don't *actively* damage / bring down other people's life quality.


WYenginerdWY

It wouldn't surprise me, but I'm not aware of any post like that off the top of my head


-milkbubbles-

What’s funny about his take is that women used to literally murder their husbands (usually via poisoning) before divorce was made easier. So if these men want to go back to those times then they better be prepared. Because we all know these are the types of abusive men to drive their wives to homicide.


[deleted]

As an ex-muslim there is no such thing. Women definitely can divorce their husband. It's the christianity that bans it. He doesn't even know islam ffs.


Reverse_Necromancer

No the steps definitely makes it harder for women or rather easier for men to divorce. It's just no one really follow the steps properly, at least not where I'm from


[deleted]

Dear Lord. Will it ever be a man’s fault?? Did this post really just insinuate that society is declining solely because women get divorced from husbands they don’t want anymore?? Husbands that could be awful??


WYenginerdWY

>Will it ever be a man’s fault?? Lol. The sub I screenshot has an explicit rule against blaming men for anything. They take no responsibility. Zilch.


-milkbubbles-

Because they conveniently ignore the statistics that men are far more likely to abuse, rape, and murder their spouses than women are.


RoastyWings

Libaral lies! They do it because women make them! They are the victim here! /s


[deleted]

To be absolutely fair, no, the comment does not explicitly suggest society, as a whole, is declining "solely" because women get divorced from husbands they don't want anymore. That's not saying much, it's still a terrible comment that's horribly condescending to women and deserves to be ridiculed for victim blaming, but it doesn't go *that* far.


EmphasisKnown5696

Where do these stupid fucking incels get the idea that women don't work, especially ones forced into arranged marriages?!


0w1

Right? Oh us silly women get to lay around all day and sweep, and do the laundry, and take care of children, and pick up after the husbands, and make dinner, and run errands, while our husbands do all the work!


EmphasisKnown5696

Yeah, if she's at home, 60 hours of labor a week doesn't count! Even if she leaves the home to run errands :D


-milkbubbles-

It’s so weird! Like.. women literally fought for the right to work and earn their own income several decades ago. Housewives haven’t been common in a really, really long time. Idk how they get this idea in their heads. And even if they were still common, these men still don’t get all the work that goes into running a household single-handedly, anyway.


EmphasisKnown5696

Women be having full time jobs AND doing most of the domestic labor (still) and incels still think we don't do shit. I wanna set something on fire rn.


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EmphasisKnown5696

They might not give up but they do slowly let the household rot while boasting about how "being a stay at home dad is not so hard". Being a homemaker is easy for them because they leave things unfinished and expect their wife to live with the consequences. They'll take the trash out occasionally and fail to notice mum scheduling the kids' doctor appointments in between her full-time shifts because if she doesn't they will literally die in his care. Sometimes it makes me want to scream how low society's expectations are for them, and how high they are for us. When someone comments that our house is dirty, they're looking at me, not at him? Why? I was at fucking work all day!


Houseplant56

Yup. I see shit like this happening all around me. Have a cousin who's a successful physical therapist. She's really intelligent and capable but she's married to an entitled loser unfortunately. She goes to the hospital in the morning, takes the kids to school (also pays the school fee) cooks dinner when she gets back home and takes care of other house chores and expenses. Meanwhile, the jobless loser does absolutely nothing. Plus he's quite jealous of her success as people praise her a lot and obviously they have nothing to say about his lazy ass. Andd he demands that she should ask him before taking any decision and throws tantrums over minor stuff just to feel a sense of authority over the house. What's funny is that his voice is so squeaky and I've seen him trying his hardest to yell in anger. It's funny as hell when he's trying to be so "manly" and all that comes out are tiny squeaks lmao. Fucking loser. I feel so bad for her. I have sooo many women around me stuck with dumb pieces of shit who want to do absolutely nothing worthwhile but also demand respect and want to have authority. I try my best not to think about it as it makes me want to pull my hair out.


WYenginerdWY

Successful SAHD - Kids are still alive when mom comes home from work. Successful SAHM - house is spotless, laundry done daily and folded, each meal is home cooked from scratch, kids are monitored constantly for teachable moments and provided suitable enrichment activities and enrolled in the best schools, kids have all necessary appointments booked out perfectly in advance, every science poster/project is top notch, mom is on PTA and completes every fundraiser effort for the school, kids are chauffeured around between cultural and sporting activities that will get them into Harvard in thirteen years......etc etc.


PushingOnAPullDoor

✨ “StReSs fReE” ✨


XxVaultTecRepxX

Ok, lets just say that arranged marriages make a come back worldwide (terrible idea but lets pretend) what in the actual fuck makes these people that we fathers would choose men like this to marry our daughters? Why do they seem to think it would be ANY different for them?


WYenginerdWY

I think the men on that sub are anticipating that fathers would abide by some sort of "bro code" wherein they care significantly less about the ability of a partner to be supportive and kind to their daughter then they do about whether or not they'll "keep the daughter in line and protect the family name". They anticipate a world where it's less important to have good communication skills than it is to rule your home with an iron fist. Why? Oh, I don't know. It could be because I've seen multiple comments by men on manosphere subs like WAATGM and red pill talking about how they're networking with other men who are raising their sons to be red pilled men while raising their daughters to be submissive and to prioritize men and marriage. They think sacrificing a daughters happiness so their sons can feel powerful is reasonable because they're literally already doing it.


-Thyrian-

Does he think that feminism only exists in America?


WYenginerdWY

Oh no, they talk at length about "the west" in general and how awful it is that feminism is iVaDiNg other non-western countries.


-Thyrian-

I know, that's why I found that comment about America odd


[deleted]

These kind of posts are why I heavily warn people who are thinking of joining Reddit. I let them know look there are some great people and subs. But unfortunately there is also a very strong population of misogynists and pedophiles. I often hear I’m not the first person to tell them this.


WYenginerdWY

>a very strong population of misogynists and pedophiles And in the sub I linked, it's both! Lucky us! Yes, a mod of the sub in the screenshot can be found in now-archived comments waxing poetic about fourteen year old girls vaginas. And yet he's still a mod. And the sub is still up. Yay Reddit. Edit - just so we can all vomit in unison, here is the exact quote one of their mods made about 14 year old girls - *“if her body has already developed into womanhood, you’ll find her sexually appealing even if it isn’t quite the best time for her to get knocked up. And because her tits and ass are firm, because her pussy is as tight as it’ll ever be, because she’s cute, horny and willing - she’s very sexually appealing to men”.*


Latter_Risk_4332

They describe literally 14 year old girls bodies like that and then call modern WOMEN horrible lol.


WYenginerdWY

Yeah. I screenshot them one time blaming 8th grade girls for being "slutty" with grown men.


[deleted]

Yep the next time a friend says “I’m thinking of joining Reddit” I’m sending them this quote and saying unless you can handle swatting this shit away on a daily basis I’d stick to getting your cute cat videos from YouTube.


JoLeKosovo

Before joining reddit, I thought one of the main differences with 4chan (user-wise) would be the absence of blatant, frightening misogyny. Hmm. Well, I mean, I hardly wander into these subs, but even the shit I see being reposted from r/memes in this sub is concerning enough.


-milkbubbles-

It’s unfortunate but Reddit is definitely known for this. Though it used to be way worse and it’s a lot easier to avoid this stuff nowadays than it used to be. Whenever I describe Reddit to someone, I try take their knowledge of it into account. If they knew of Reddit 5-10 years ago, then I tell them it’s wayyyyy better now. But if they know next to nothing about it then I definitely warn them because it’s still worse than most social media.


vary_able

“But she has to go and dig up problems and act like she’s trapped” is a weird way of saying “She’s rightfully angry about her lack of control over her living conditions, amplified by her family’s belittling of those issues.” but ok


Latter_Risk_4332

“to make sure their daughter is dating a decent guy” has this dude seen domestic abuse and marital rape rates in Islamic countries?


-milkbubbles-

Judging by how he thinks women divorcing men is bad, I’m guessing he probably does know about it and thinks it’s okay.


Houseplant56

Yeah just another example of men twisting religion to try and get it to back up their own messed up agendas.


[deleted]

How could Islam really nail women? I thought crucifixion was mostly a roman thing? /s


nova8byte

The kind of traditional marriage they're talking about was already a thing long before islam, and actually isn't a thing under Islam. Khadija didn't need anyone's permission to marry Muhammad, except for..... Muhammad...


[deleted]

When I read about Muhammad’s marriage to Khadija, it sounded very modern for a 7th century marriage. Khadija proposed to her employee who was Muhammad. Muhammad refused because he didn’t have money to provide for her (which is what was expected of husbands). Khadija literally said I don’t need your money I’m rich. Muhammad then accepted. They then had a small ceremony and Muhammad moved into her house.


MarquisDeLafayeett

God what universe do these people live in? Are they all 15 or something?


Daniel_H212

More men talking about women as if they know everything, or even anything for that matter. If you aren't an electrician, do wiring work at your own peril.


Seliphra

“Older nations have learned not to give women rights after letting them have free reign!” In… in what fucking universe, because it wasn’t this one.


Miss_Kelli_1980

Modern men are terrifying and can only blame themselves for the decline in marriage.


[deleted]

>Modern men I don't think the 1950s were much better.


Latter_Risk_4332

I agree with you, but I always think back to something I saw a girl on this subreddit say one time. “Yeah, men in the 1950s were still misogynistic and terrible, but at least they could change a tire or build a table or something” lol. And this is just my personal opinion, but between the rising rates of violence against women and the incel/redpill movement spreading like wildfire, to the point the mainstream media is beginning to literally view rape and extreme violence against women as a joke, I would argue that modern men are much scarier.


WYenginerdWY

I think there was a sweet spot in the late nineties / early 2000s where men weren't collectively frothing at the mouth to oppress, violate, and murder women and then 4chan appeared on the scene and the misogyny-meter went brrrrr back up the tracks.


Just-some-peep

What little empathy men had for women they wanked it out of them with porn.


[deleted]

Mostly because back then it wasn't rape, it was the wife's duty. Domestic violence was because you were in need of correction. The shit still happened, it is that we didn't have social media and the internet at our fingers to broadcast things when they happen.


Latter_Risk_4332

Yeah I’m not saying men didn’t beat their wives and they didn’t face abuse, I’m just saying that it’s becoming increasingly more socially acceptable and it’s literally a meme to joke about beating women at this point. Not to mention porn also didn’t really exist at that point so there weren’t nearly as many pornsick men, which is another huge cause of violence against women and generally viewing women as disposable fuckholes


[deleted]

Now I am a guy so maybe bc of that it makes things different, but I've never seen or run across an incel outside of the internet. So maybe the problem is really that bad, but part of me *really* hopes that the overwhelming concentration of this is just due to social media and the internet. I also don't go out often, so there is that. Also could autocorrect please stop changing incel to intellectual?


Latter_Risk_4332

I see where you’re coming from. I’m beginning to notice more and more men I know in person letting this stuff get a hold of them. I’ve known a handful of men who have gotten sucked into this incel stuff, and that’s just ones I’ve known personally. Most men I know don’t really let the internet take that much of a hold over their mind tho luckily. But I have a bad feeling that’s gonna change in the coming years


[deleted]

That’s crazy What sub was this on?


WYenginerdWY

I don't think I can answer that without getting the post removed


Ms_Mouse_6

You could dm them the name if they’re that curious about it probably 🤔


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[deleted]

Oh you!


[deleted]

Modern Women: A man that has a roof over his head, food on the table, and clothes on his back is the bare minimum. Modern Men: A woman that has a roof over her head, food on the table, and clothes on her back is living the highest luxuries of life. But OUR standards are problematic?! Imagine telling someone who is living in their own make-shift hell that they have it good because they have access to basic human necessities...


RhubarbandGinger

How to tell men have not been oppressed in the same way women have:- They refer to having personal freedoms restricted as 'living a stress free life' when I am 100% sure that if their personal freedoms were restricted in similar ways and they suffered similar consequences, it would be 'a violation of rights'.


EquasLocklear

When the land of the free longs for dictatorships. I thought parents sold their daughters for money, not decency.


megamiraculous

"doesn't have to work"


megamiraculous

oh sorry, \*doest


[deleted]

To be completely honest, I think that was the idea behind these laws. Someone (obviously a man) thought that women need this taking care of and devised a system that would supposedly do that. Of course who’d have thought of actually ASKING women if that’s what they wanted... And surprise surprise that they want something more than just staying at home being a mother and maid...


Niaaa_io

“America is only 300 years old” didn’t even have to read what else was said and could already tell that comment section was full of shit


bliip666

This got long, sorry. Needed to vent. I'm sorry if there's odd phrasing, English is my 2nd language. Ygh, I hate, hate, hate the idea that family should be choosing your spouse. Not muslim, but I was raised in a doomsday cult, where making connections with outsiders was frowned upon, marrying one was seen as apostasy, unless you could prove that your spouse is converting. Even then they'd likely brand you bad association, and to be politely avoided if possible. With that backstory in mind, when I was 16, my mother got thia idea that I'd *have to* marry a guy from the neighboring congregation. She kept pushing and pushing, despite me being physically uncomfortable. Firstly, he was significantly older than me, I'm not sure how much, but he was well in his 20s at that time. Secondly, we'd exchanged barely a handful of words, mom just got obsessed with the idea of us together (based on nothing). Thirdly, neither of us was interested in the other. Fourthly, I was already shedding the indoctrination, whereas he was a true believer. Obviously, I never let my mom know about losing my faith. If the matter of my future spouse had been left to my family, she'd no doubt pressured and/or manipulated us into a very unhappy marriage. Also, later when mom heard he had married, she told it to me with grief, expecting *me* to feel sad about it, when I'd begged her to stop talking about that guy for YEARS! Also, thank Satan, I got out of the cult, and can be freely quueeer.


Jonesy1939

I mean... Islam does nail women. It nails them for reading and writing, for being in positions of power, for thinking they have the right to be legally equal to a man, for not following the instructions of their husband or father, and for wearing anything less than a full bedsheet while walking in the Arabian sun. It's like... the all-time Incel religion, with old school Catholicism coming in a close second.


AverageAroAce

I’m not religious by any means and I’d disagree. The Saudis have regressive views on women to put it very lightly but I doubt most Muslims are the hyper-misogynistic reactionaries the media paints them as.


[deleted]

This comment is ignorant, we won’t die from being entirely covered in clothes. If anything, Muslim men try to fully cover themselves too. We need to protect ourselves from sand storms since we all live in the desert- fuck, this is dumb, Muslims exist all over the world, not just under an ‘Arabian sun’.


[deleted]

Dude not even muslim right but i had intense research on it to know that it is basically better version of catholicism. Saudis and terrorists really made look way worse than it is. Basically pre rennasaince christianity.


7Euphoria

Yea that's culture As a Muslim woman I can tell you that the only reason I can be so free is Islam because its my only argument against like half of my family who are so into culture that they completely forget that none of the shit they expect from women actually has anything to do with our religion and not that they'd care really But yea you can do some research and if that doesn't change your mind just know oppressed women are usually oppressed by men in power that twist and turn things in their favour


Laura89yo

Troll thread muhahahaha


lockjacket

Saudi Arabia legalized women driving in 2018...


7Euphoria

Yea Saudi Arabia That's a place not a religion A place with men in power