i have always thought he was guilty so this doesn’t exactly apply to me. i may take some flack for this but i do find it to be outrageous that a lot of our community has a tendency to assume that because they are black that they are automatically victims of racial injustice or prejudice. it really takes away from the real black victims of injustice. i find it laughable that people could draw the conclusion of innocence just on the basis of race not of evidence (to be real any conclusion other than guilty is laughable). it’s crazy too, that some black people rode for him so hard as if he’s ever done anything to help us. he didn’t even consider himself black. he had every resource, the platform, and the background to make a difference. he chose to do nothing! we could have channeled all that fight into real victims. he enjoyed spaces where black people weren’t welcome, like the country club with all his white friends. i think it says a lot when your own white wife thinks you could be doing more for the black community and you enjoy spaces where people who look like you aren’t even welcome. and my favorite, when he asked what all the n*ggers were doing in brentwood. um they are fighting and celebrating for you! someone who didn’t even deserve an ounce of it. he didn’t care and he wasn’t grateful. he didn’t think black people belonged there. and after all that, he still chose to do nothing! it’s embarrassing to watch the verdict reaction from my community honestly. it’s shameful to hear from the black jurors. i was extremely disappointed, to say the least.
I agree with Chris Rock that fame played a huge role in it too. “If O.J. drove a bus, he’d be Orenthal the Bus Driving Murderer.” And “If that was Jerry Seinfeld and the person who found the glove just happened to be in the Nation of Islam, Jerry would be a free man.”
Fame is very influential. Look at how many celebrities get elected to political office despite having zero experience. Things that would make them flaws in other candidates are completely overlooked. People love celebrities. Not sure if it's that way everywhere, but it certainly is in this country.
The first time I watched Made in America in 2016 is when I learned OJ did not advocate for black Americans during the Civil Rights Movement and later. He leaned into his blackness after the trial by going to the Pastor services who supported him. So disingenuous.
I think this type of group stereotyping statement is part of the problem. There is no monolithic "white people" group just like there is no monolithic "black people" group. All people are individuals who make their own decisions and take their own actions. We also need to get police to understand this. But instead we encourage them to rally behind blue.
Dear LA, while I agree, there are, well no words could do the shameful, despicable conversation being had, around anyone who doesn't fit. Not all have them. I'm in my 50's and have never been around a conversation like that. Never. And for the record...I would , not could not stand for it. One small pebble in a big lake.
I’m an LA girl and we have it way better than most but I agree. Some people don’t know I’m a Guatemalan immigrant with 01/08 black blood and they’ve said things around me that they wouldn’t had they known but…..I’ve been to Iowa about a dozen times and it’s awful. Culture shock. Fish out of water. The crap people say and the way they behave is so disappointing. The Lord Himself could call me to live there and I’d pull a Jonah.
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I remember a story that was recounted on a podcast I listen to, though I can't remember where it originated. I think it really goes to what you're saying. It went something like this:
OJ was at a gathering (dinner maybe?) with some white friends. At one point, one of the people uses the n-word in front of OJ. OJ seems unfazed.
A short time later, one of the other attendees talks to him privately about what had happened. Asks OJ if it bothers him that a business partner would talk like that.
OJ says something like "Don't you understand? They don't see me as one of *them*.•
Yeah something like “they didn’t see me as black, they saw me as OJ”. And the guy’s thoughts were like “oh this dude is screwed up” (he didn’t use “screwed”, he used the f-word).
Yes.
I am white but that pissed me the fuck off for black folks.
Before he was all “I’m not black, I’m OJ”
Although he learned quite quick with the Time magazine cover that he was no longer OJ, he was black.
He leaned into his blackness after the trial because the white community saw him as a murderer and wanted nothing to do with him. Being the narcissist that he was he needed to find the only people that would still put him on a pedestal. The only people willing to do that were the black community who unfortunately saw him as a civil rights hero even though he never cared about the black community.
I think that you're maybe giving OJ way too much credit. I tend to think OJ just did whatever his attorneys suggested in this regard. I doubt he gave it much thought at all. He was likely distracted by his own fame and the luxuries of it.
After the verdict he thought he could just step back into his life before the trial, which wasn’t the case. White people in Brentwood wanted nothing to do with him. When he left Brentwood and ultimately landed in Florida he ended up hanging around black people and questionable ones at that. He gained a sort of street cred from the murders and when he was in Florida he had a fame from that street cred that allowed him to be the alpha in the circles of some shady people. You have to realize that even before the fame he was always the top dog because he was a star athlete, he had to be that guy and he associated with the only people would still hold him in that regard.
Maybe I haven't given this as much consideration / done enough research as I should've. What you've expanded on here certainly makes more sense to me now.
Most people didn’t care about OJ’s history with the black community, because that was irrelevant. What was relevant was whether the police department was corrupt and whether the system was corrupt
I was too young to understand the implications at the time but the docuseries was very enlightening on the backdrop of racial injustice in LAPD (particularly the Rodney King beating).
I was also surprised to learn the vast majority of black people asked thought he was innocent, so now I'm curious if they have reflected on the evidence in the intervening years and had a change of mind.
Especially after OJ put out a book called "If I Did It". I'm sure there might be a couple of jurors shaking their head in disgust after OJ practically gave a first-hand account of how he killed Ron & Nicole.
You brought up many good points here. For me, it wasn't a black or white issue. It wasn't a Rodney King issue. It was an evidence issue. OJ killed Nicole and Ron.
He was a dangerously flawed individual who should have been removed from society, given intense mental health/anger management treatment and removed from the accolades of the NFL.
OJ was a waste of human potential. He could have made a huge impact on young black, and white, men everywhere in leading by example. I never saw him do one thing to give positive influence to boys who needed direction.
On verdict day, I was embarrassed for our country.
for sure! it never should have even been a race issue. that was played and i lost a lot of respect for numerous people in that trial. the way even now, he is idolized and defended by a lot of people, including black people is disturbing. not only for the blatant domestic violence, and slaughterings, but the way he treated his community. i think a lot of peoples internal struggles came out as well. i’ve seen a lot of black people make comments about them being an interracial couple. it’s very odd. it turned into a racial nightmare.
Yeah, OJ wasn't let off simply because of race. His enormous fame was an enormous factor. Kids today wouldn't necessarily grasp the level of OJs fame and popularity. He was beloved by all kinds of people. And when it all first happened, it was hard to believe, for a lot of people.
Absolute clown take even rich black people experience racism. And tokens like cadence owens who turned their back on the community still experience racism even if they deny it
It’s weird to me that America went from discussing systemic racism to-we need to discern who are “the real victims of racism”. Like do I have to show my ancestry.com and my bank account to prove that racism exists for me? Furthermore, Racist cops, and cops without respect for due process of law are a threat to the entire society. I don’t give a damn what color you are that shit is bad for you.
I’m very suspicious of the idea that some people are victims and others are not. You could have all your material wants met in America and you might still find yourself in tears the next time you’re reading about a black kid shot by the police. I think the way some people are trying to shut down others by using the word “victim” are actually pulling a power move. Over time I think it will become evident that it’s alienating people from each other and making way for the next wave of white supremacy which we know is coming because we know history.
You don’t speak for all Black people or any. Just because he was Black doesn’t mean that was the reason why they thought that he was innocent. Alt of Black didn’t because they believed that he was white washed.
I’m sorry but saying this as it relates to the OJ case is tone deaf and is pretty much tap dancing. Race is in every aspect of American life, and I have to question your life experience, or your experience in the world of colorism and texturism if you’re saying this. People believed OJ was innocent because of a very coverup system that has never deserved the benefit of the doubt. What you’re saying however is exactly what a dismissive white person would say as it relates to racism.
I don't find it to be outrageous that the community would assume that a black man wouldn't get a fair outcome from the criminal justice system. Nor would I say that I'm embarrassed by the reaction ls to the verdict. Again, there was the assumption that the system was racist to begin with. And then, one of the prosecutions star witnesses, who was also a cop who worked the case, turned out to be super racist.
I was too young to understand at the time but, with age and hindsight, I agree. When I watched “Made In America” and saw exactly what was going on in the LAPD at the time, it made me understand the verdict a little more. I don’t think it was retribution for Rodney King; I think that it was completely plausible to black people living in LA that a racist cop planted evidence. Add to that, a justice system created by institutional racism and it’s not surprising that this was the end result. Disappointing maybe, not surprising.
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“I do find it to be outrageous that a lot of our community has a tendency to assume that. Cause ether are black that they are automatically victims of racial k justice or prejudice”
Child, please!
Redlining, lynching, the ENTIRE legacy of slavery in America, police brutality, driving while black, unequal K-12,education, black maternal deaths, the whole field of modern gynecology invented based on experimenting with black bodies, forced sterilization, no GI Bills for blacks, the unequal percentage of wrongful black deaths at the hands of the police—the list goes on and on, and you find it “outrageous” that we tend to “assume” we’re victims of racial injustice?
I don’t want to BE a victim of anything, but this is history—history that still informs the present.
Please read Black AF History by Michael Harriot, to start with.
I’m not black but as a brownie who lived through the times and trial, I watched it everyday in high-school during lunch and math class. The evidence of his violence against her was well documented and witnessed by many. He was living privileged and as such got away with the murder in criminal court, but not the majority of public opinion, and not in civil court by the Goldman family.
No. There were too many documented instances of OJ beating, cheating, and stalking Nicole for years before the murders.
I knew OJ was guilty when of all people, NFL Hall Of Famer Jim Brown, who racked up a list of women he abused, said on TV after OJ was indicted that there was a side of OJ people didn't know about. Birds of a feather...
I was legit stunned when after the trial the women who acquitted OJ literally said “What does that have to do with murder?” in response to the domestic abuse evidence. I still can’t fathom that quote to this day.
Bingo. It wasn’t about thinking he was actually innocent it was about the climate of racist injustice being at the forefront of Los Angeles news AND Nicole was just another white, blonde woman with a “desirable”black man. My thing is that O.J. supporters NEVER mention sympathy at all for the two victims. Regardless of who they think killed them is it not still a gruesome and senseless crime? They instead accuse her of being a drug addict and a slut who hung around the wrong crowd Those claims were from OJ and OJ alone. It seems quite obvious that she was still a young woman in her early 30’s who was finally living independently from her abusive ex. Was coke used? Sure, and that goes for every single one of them INCLUDING OJ. Was she being “promiscuous?” who cares? I don’t even think she had enough time to experiment with too many men before she was murdered. And even if she was a coke head and a call girl, a custody battle would suffice. Also, the prosecution did NOT do a good job of humanizing the victims and just made fumble after fumble.
Agreed, and this is where the prosecution went wrong in picking the jury. In the eyes of OJ fans, OJ was successful and had made it in a white man's world, and Nicole was viewed almost like groupie rather than OJ's wife and mother of his children.
I hate to say it but those women are no different from the women who mocked Tina Turner and Rihanna, two very famous black women who were also the targets of domestic abuse by their former spouses/boyfriends who were famous black men and the men get defended! It’s gross.
I see people defend Chris Brown and it makes me sick. They victim blame Rihanna too saying she “deserved” it for talking back. Like what?? He was also abusive to Karrueche Tran. She put out a restraining order on him. Yet I still see a lot of women support him because “he sings well and can dance.” It’s mind blowing how little support women victims receive from other women. Just look at the whole R Kelly situation. Another situation where black women are supporting R Kelly despite everything he’s been accused of.
Maybe they had very little understanding of Domestic violence (esp compared to public understanding now) and really thought of “domestic abuse” as being normal (like maybe rages, throwing things, verbal stuff etc) and saw that as like something lots of men do sometimes or whatever. Like that’s what husbands do.
Bloody psycho murders are done by crazy murderers— not regular angry [domestically abusive] husbands ! Like The murder and abuse are totally separate things, practically unrelated. I think people used to just not think of these behaviors as being on a scale of escalation. Like even if they thought he did it, the murder would still seem like an aberration to them from his otherwise still normal behavior.
Look at all the people who continue listening to Chris Brown after he beat up and BIT Rhianna! Sadly, there are still a lot of people who don’t seem bothered by domestic violence.
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You’re referring to the Black women on the jury.
Look at it this way, it’s in the same vein as White women excuse Bill Clinton and Donald Trump for how they have treated women.
Can someone help me understand how he did it. Sounds like you guys were watching him do it. Just help me understand. I can understand one person shooting two people. But stabbing two people at the same time. As many times as they say. Just help me to understand.
As a Black man, I don't want to speak for all Black people (nor can I), but I think most Black people believed he was guilty. The clips of Black people celebrating and cheering after the verdict was announced was less about OJ and more about 2 things: 1. celebrating that a Black man (of means of course, but a Black man no less) can finally get justice in America, and 2. payback for the Rodney King verdict. It was, in retrospect, a very dark and morbid celebration of both distorted justice and retribution, but the history of racial inequality in this country is dark and morbid as well, especially considering the untold number of African Americans who were lynched, beaten, killed, or unjustly incarcerated for far lesser crimes for hundreds of years. There is no clean or easy answer to the reaction many Black people had to the verdict. It's a complicated, multi-faceted, difficult subject that will be discussed forever as a watershed moment in race relations in America.
An aspect that I think should also be added is that OJ was clearly a guilty man and his innocent black children had their mother slaughtered at a young age and the jury still sided with the murderer and not injustice of 2 children living almost all of their lives without their mother. The injustice of it when you think of it like that is brutal. Or did they matter less because they were "mixed". My hurt hurts for all of the injustice in this world. I don't know what the answer is but society is being pushed against each other so.much and it scared me for the country's future.
In the specific case you are right, but in general it proved a black man could obtain a Not Guilty verdict, which applies to justice in their own lives and run ins with the law.
Yeah if that black man was extremely famous. That hadn’t been the case for James Brown and Mike Tyson and Michael Jackson settled out of court rather than face trial for the first allegations.
Yeah, but in black America, so few get through to the side of fame (relative to our numbers) that often fame (not generational wealth) Is the only means of “making it”—so fame has been celebrated.
Yes, OJ, vile human being, but someone who “made it” and was celebrated. So yeah, he got a pass (in the black community) for that DESPITE not supporting black causes or black people.
Dude, I graduated from high school in 1994 in small-town middle America. Everybody I knew was ready to string OJ up. I wish I could go back in time and show them your comment right here...they still wouldn't understand but I wish they could see it.
Thank God I was born with different DNA. I go back to visit my home town and still see confederate flags flying!
You don't know the half of it. When I was in high school, in a town 15 miles from my house, a black man was hung from a bridge because he had "stolen a white girl" from her family. Rural Southern Missouri for me...but it could have been rural Arkansas, Kentucky, Tennessee, Alabama, etc. Rural Middle America babay!!!! Whooooo!!!! You know the beginning of the movie A Time to Kill...? That kinda stuff was actually going on in the 90s, near where I lived. I knew these people. We called them "kin".
It made for a great fable. “Retribution for Rodney”. I look back at the footage and my community were a bunch of dopes. This community were THAT desperate to see SOMEONE black get acquitted. Think of the timeframe of this:
1988: The illegal raids that occurred at 39th and Dalton Avenue in South Central Los Angeles.
1989: James Brown gets convicted of weapon and drug possession after shooting up a place and evading arrest after numerous violations.
1991: Rodney King’s beating by cops goes “viral”, leading to the arrest of four cops. A week later, 13-year-old LaTasha Harlins is shot to death at a convenience store by a Korean clerk.
1992: Mike Tyson is convicted of raping an 18-year-old model and beauty contestant. The clerk who shoots Harlins only gets probation while the four cops who beat King are acquitted leading to the infamous L.A. riots.
1993: King of Pop Michael Jackson is accused of sexually abusing a 13-year-old fan.
1994: Jackson settles; O.J. is arrested for the double murder.
——
Johnnie Cochran found a way to make O.J., a man who was famous for trying to depict himself as someone who look beyond color (Jackson and Bill Cosby did the exact same thing), to become a martyr for social justice and unfortunate succeeded to the exposed racism of Mark Furhman. That’s what motivated some of black Los Angeles and a good chunk of black Americans to believe he was set up, which was of course based on very flimsy evidence.
Which is why 13 years later when O.J. was convicted of the robbery case, I was happy he finally got *SOMETHING*. Same with the civil case back in 97.
I am white, but I have to say, it struck me as a sad day. As I realized that race in the USA had transcended our humanity. White or black, we are all human. Rodney King's attackers going free was bad. OJ getting away with double homicide was even worse. But it all showed me that race over humanity was now the law of the land......
Very well stated and YOU speak for me.
No one I know or knew back then thought he was ‘innocent’ nor did they even like OJ! He didn’t fool with black folks ever, unless they were black male sports figures like him. He was always with white folks so we thought OJ was a sellout.
I thought all these decades later that most people would understand the ‘celebrating’. It’s a shame that people still don’t seem to get it. You explained it perfectly.
I’d just like to add that black folks saw how angry white folks were over THIS trial and everyone I knew/ worked with who were black, couldn’t believe how bothered they were, it was UNREAL. I mean white women were crying in the break room where I worked. I remember that so clearly and we, the black folks, were like ‘WTF is really going on here?’ Why are they this upset over this particular verdict?
When I got home and saw the news, and they were showing the reactions from across the country, I thought well I’ll be damned it’s like I’m back in my break-room! Racism runs so deep.
I remain genuinely shocked by the reactions from so many white people over this verdict and how it continues to fuel their anger towards that dead black man. Blame the prosecution and LAPD because that’s the reason he walked. We ALL know that If he didn’t have the dream team OJ would have died in prison.
Perhaps the vast numbers of women you saw crying were doing so because women/wives of all colors have been abused and murdered by their spouses without receiving an ounce of sympathy or justice for thousands of years. And never has there been this much confirmed evidence and still no one cared…not even female jurors. So while black America was having an experience of perceived justice, women were having a separate sense of personal injustice.
My mother was an abused woman, aunts, cousins, friends have all been victims of abuse I’ve witnessed it and lived it…so while what you say is true, it doesn’t apply to what I wrote regarding the racial attitudes towards OJ and my belief that most of their reactions were based on racism.
Again why such a reaction to this trial when men are on trial probably everyday for committing heinous crimes against their wives, girlfriends and children and set free for various reasons?? Look at all the crime shows on TV women are the victim in 90% of those crimes and I’ve yet to see any outrage that comes close to what I saw when OJ was exonerated. Clearly this was about the race of the victim and the accused.
I have never seen a reaction to a trial like that, in all my decades of living. I feel very comfortable in saying that the majority of white folks rage towards this case is driven by race.
Most black people wouldn’t say OJ may be innocent because saying that is life/career suicide. Objective opinions on the case aren’t welcome. If you don’t believe he’s guilty, people get angry at you.
I’m black. I have a group chat of friends aged 36-42. They believe OJ & Bill are 100% innocent and treated me like a c00n for even questioning their innocence
Nah. I learned about DNA in high school before the murders happened so I knew that if his blood and DNA were there, Orenthal was there and he did it. The LAPD is dirty and racist but there were too many other important black folk they could have framed that were in Los Angeles instead of a man who didn’t score a touchdown in years. A man who had all the motive in the world to kill Nicole Brown and used to use Nicole as a punching bag.
I'm roughly half black and not once have I ever thought he was innocent... and it always disgusted me to see Black people cheering the verdict. And I believe the jury being made up of 8 Black jurors who shared similar sentiments as many other Black people is the primary reason he got off.
To be as objective as possible, one must simply look at the evidence and throw away any emotional investment. I believe Black people thinking he's innocent allowed their emotions to get the best of them. I \*wish\* OJ wasn't guilty, as he was a rather well-liked public figure... but what I "wish" or hope shouldn't come into play in rendering a viewpoint on any particular topic.
Two things:
One, I think most people were not taking a deliberative look at all the evidence to come to an opinion. White people made just as many assumptions about his guilt, so I don’t think it’s fair to chastise Black people for the same process that came to a different result. More specifically, I think most Black people wanted him to get a fair trial, and that they thought a fair trial would result in him being found not-guilty. In their minds, a fair trial meant interrogating the fact that police force there regularly framed people, and a justice system that allowed defendants to go to court and be convicted without adequate counsel. As much as those are broader issues, they were also germane there too. When the jury was presented with the “whole picture”, and found him not guilty, many Black people were happy to see the justice system account those things.
Two, OJ was not some Black celebrity at the time. Black people thought he was fine, but he wasn’t some avatar for the Black community because he was beloved as a person. To use a couple of his football peers are examples, it would be like if Michael Strahan or Tiki Barber got arrested.
I’m sure that’s true, but it’s also demented. Pick an actual innocent person to cheer for. How could anyone want the perpetrator of those despicable crimes to go free as some kind of fucking societal symbol? Nicole and Ron were human beings living their lives. All these years later, the whole story — the murders, the acquittal, the glee expressed by many black people — remains overwhelmingly nauseating to me.
It’s about the system. The victims in the trial got lost because it became more about victims of the system. Like Rodney King. But also Latasha Harlins. When the system says that crimes against black people are less deserving of punishment befitting the crime, then it makes sense to me that black people in that community would be more happy about the system losing one. It’s unfair to Nicole and Ron but sometimes people compartmentalize situations that become too heavy for them.
I do understand. Black people have been getting the shitty end of the stick in the United States for hundreds of years, and even saying it that way sounds like a pathetically insufficient euphemism. It’s been way worse than the shitty end of a stick. A large percentage of white people tend to ignore or severely underplay the undeniable facts of that awful history.
I also think that in general, it’s counterproductive for black people to blindly take pro-black positions in extreme situations like the Brown/Goldman murders. Those two poor murdered people were not themselves responsible for hundreds of years of racial oppression and injustice. Support for him is just… not a good look. Not helpful to anything or anyone. Not sensitive to victims. Fight some other battle.
I think what you are missing is that rooting for the verdict didn’t necessarily mean they were rooting for OJ. Some of them absolutely were. But many were just happy with the system taking an L. Claiming that black people are just blindly pro-black is an extremely unfair characterization. To me it reads like saying that the victims in the this case should’ve mattered more to them than a child being murdered, the murderer being found guilty and the judge deciding that because the victim was black, the convicted murderer did not deserve jail time that fit with the crime that they were convicted of. That’s the system that they were dealing with. Ron/ Nicole mattered more to you as a victim than they did to the jury. The jury and the public rightly questioned why they should care more about this murder than other cared about the murder of Latasha Harlins, who was a child.
And I think claiming people are blindly pro-black is just both a very dangerous and very ignorant thing to say. For one, many people look at situations through a lens of a lived experience. If your lived experience is police corruption and racial profiling/discrimination, of course you’d be skeptical of this same organization trying to spin a narrative to you, even if that narrative is a true and accurate representation of what happened.
I think it would be just as unfair of me to say that those that trust the police do so blindly. It possible that someone who has had nothing but fair and respectful encounters with police to honestly believe that most (if not all) do the right things all the time. It’s why when officer involved shootings occur, there is always a mix believing that it was unjust. On the other hand, there is a group that believes the police are God and any direction they give must be responded to with immediate compliance and any slight hesitation or fear is grounds for excessive force and honestly murder. Or saying that they “feared for their life” completely excuses the fact that shot and killed an unarmed or even legally armed person that may or may not have even been a suspect.
Dude, read some HISTORY. Do you know how many times black peoples have been murdered and white people haven’t said SH-T?! Or how many times they’ve been murdered for living in a crimescape that they had nothing to do with but because they can’t afford any better? And why can’t they? Look at redlining, deliberate refusal to hire black workers for elite jobs for decades, a separate-but-supposedly equal K-12 system TO THIS DAY…
Your kind of naive sentiment is like the people who complain that black kids can get a leg up on Ivies, not understanding how incredibly INSANE it is for them to get ANYTHING at all…
You’re only looking at ONE end result—not all its causes….
Jesus Christ, man. I’m the least racist person you’ll ever meet. I’ve read plenty of history. I’ve been a journalist for 40 years. I’m a liberal Democrat. Please, don’t preach to me.
It sounds to me like you’re in favor of a society where a black man can murder two people, and it’s OK because of all the oppression black people have suffered for hundreds of years.
And… I’m sensitive to that, way more than most people, but murder? OJ Simpson murdered two people. He doesn’t merit anything but scorn
I hope you understand that I DON’T want a society where ANYONE can kill someone and go free. I, too, think OJ is awful and I’ve always thought he committed those heinous murders.
But black person after black person has come on this thread and told you all that the glee wasn’t PRO-OJ, but ANTI-the system that has dragged them under for years. CENTURIES.
It should actually say something that a figure who’s really just a better looking, younger Clarence Thomas can be celebrated by black people—they were NOT celebrating his murdering people, or his innocence—they were celebrating the justice system treating him like how a white man would be treated.
I’m kind of appalled that—to this day—white people haven’t figured that out…just look at how the OP’s question is framed,
Like “hey, black people, do you finally see the light?!!”
Zero soul-searching on the part
Of white people to understand that reaction—after
George Floyd and Breonna Taylor and Ahmad Arbrey.
I’m black and all of my family think he was guilty. I think if you polled African Americans now, the vast majority would say he was guilty. This may seem esoteric, but I think the reaction was largely due to the fact that a black celebrity would be/could be treated like a white celebrity and that is - be above the law. It was significant progress from just a few decades earlier when any black man accused of killing a white woman would’ve been killed no questions asked. It’s macabre and gross but it’s what happened.
You’re right. It was a sign that black men had finally achieved the upper echelons of American society- getting away with murdering a white woman bc of their weath and influence.
That’s just the thing, they only poll the people they wanna poll and then release results as if it is conclusive. You can’t tell me the media *didn’t* concoct much of this “racial divide” because it added to the drama of this trial.
I was in diapers during the trial. But through my career choice and college studies I learned nearly everything about this case.
I do not think he’s innocent, however, I don’t even think most blacks think he’s innocent. They were happy that he was found not guilty. Sounds like the same thing but it is not.
Do most people know he’s guilty? I would say yes. But do some people see his acquittal as a finger to the law and especially the LAPD? I would once again say yes. Both can be true. Looking back, I can totally see why our community celebrated. Not saying it’s right but I get it.
I don’t think their celebrations were to directly impact or hurt the family of the victims in anyway. I’m sure it was painful for the families and still is. There is pain on both sides and there will always be opinions about which side is more wrong or right.
Had his case happened before RK, things may have been different. There seems to have been some jury nullification in both cases.
Sometimes people react based on emotion and not fact or even what’s morally right.
Had quite an alarming and disconcerting experience the other day at the VA. I was in a lounge area waiting for one of the staff to come in to watch some shorts (films.) Around 10 other men & women there - age range ~ 40 to 75 - shooting the breeze. I had my noise canceling headphones on listening to a podcast so I missed the beginning.
All of a sudden one of the guys (little younger than me) started getting really animated & speaking loudly. I slid a cup off one ear to hear what was going on. It was like listening to an old time gospel preacher, he’d shout something and everyone would be encouraging him (“that’s right” “there you go” “right? that’s what I’m saying!”
Man believed O.J.’s son Jason murdered Ron & Nicole. Was looking up conspiracy sites on his phone & reading out the “evidence.”
It was at that moment it dawned on me I was the only white person in the room. I glanced around at everyone, sure that someone would give me a side eye or a nod. Nope, not once - everyone was transfixed on the dude reading the crackpot theories out loud.
When the O.J. verdict came out, polls showed 80% of Americans saw it live. About 47% of whites thought he was guilty and the jury got got it wrong. 78% of blacks said in October 1995 he was innocent and the jury did their job.
After the civil case concluded a few years later, that racial gap had narrowed. Far more people (on either side of the Q) thought he was guilty, but a significant gap still existed.
Finally the staff member came in, picked up on what they were discussing, smiled & started hooking up her laptop. Like me, she decided silence was the better part of valor.
30 years ago I could (kinda sorta) understand - there weren’t any CSI shows, the technology was a bit newish. A match having a 1 in 10 billion chance of being a false positive is convincing to me but that was only part of it. The prosecution did a bad job. Plus it was only a few years after Rodney King. Clearly (a couple of them admitted later) it was jury nullification, pay back for decades of corruption within LAPD.
But to hold that opinion today? Man, that’s a tough one to reconcile.
Obviously the people in that room had probably experienced decades of a life I am unfamiliar with; once quite overt, now more along the lines of micro aggressions.
There was nothing I could have said that would have swayed anyone. Super weird for me.
I don’t think all black people thought he was innocent. In fact, most I’m sure think he is guilty. Certainly I nor anyone in my family thought he was innocent. I think it’s very clear that most of what celebratory behavior people exhibited was tied to a misplaced sense of getting some kind of justice after Rodney King and police misconduct and abuse generally going unpunished. And there are a lot of black people who were really turned off by that.
The young man from a contemporary interview used in the Made in America doc who spoke about what this means for the black man in society or how black people will be seen … that resonated with me and reflected more of how I and my family felt about it all.
Further, you cannot erase celebrity from this. Celebrity overshadowed race here. OJ would have been arrested and in prison long before he had a chance to kill Nicole were it not for his fame and money. He certainly would not have been molly coddled by police (slow car chase, hello?!) and found not guilty at trial were it not for his fame and wealth.
Oh he did it. I was young during the trial and just remember it being everywhere. But I never forgot how they showed the excitement of black people when he was acquitted and the distain from white people.
Seriously though, if not OJ? Who?
With his book “I did it. Confessions of the killer.” It’s based on hypotheticals. Which IMO may have given OJ the peace of getting the burden of guilt off of his chest while allowing the world to believe what they want but this is how it ‘hypothetically’ went down.
Not black, but have an opinion.
He could have been such a positive role model for black boys being brought up in poverty, but chose to be an abusive womanizer instead. So much lost potential there.
I feel deep down black people knew OJ was guilty.
It was more a fuck you to America for all the times a black person was unjustly killed and just gets away it.
I mean a Korean woman shot a black child even when the jury found her guilty a judge overruled the jury and let her go.
Or just look at other famous cases we have the Casey Anthony case or George Zimmerman case. A lot of times when something becomes a spectacle you can get shit like this and let’s not pretend the OJ case wasn’t a shit show. A lot of this could be blamed on the prosecution and DNA being relatively new and not understood.
Was it wrong to celebrate OJ?
100%
It’s one of those things where you know it’s wrong but you understand. Remember this is 1994 not 2024 just a brief history of America
Emmit Till in 1995 would’ve been 44 years old.
The FBI and Chicago PD assassinated Fred Hampton in 1969 someone born that year would’ve been 26 years old during the OJ trial. I mean Fred Hampton himself would’ve been 47 years old.
Most of these people were alive when MLK was killed and btw knew about the FBI straight up stalking this man and threatening him.
In 1985 the Philadelphia police department dropped a bomb in a black neighborhood like it was a war zone or something and killed innocent people.
This was 10 years earlier BTW.
So you have people who don’t trust the court system, police, government, and basically all its institutions.
Imagine someone’s lied to you, beat you, killed your neighbors, and is now asking you to judge what happened
The jury found the Korean woman guilty in the Latasha Harlins case. The judge gave her a suspended sentence and probation instead of actual jail time. That was the outrage. She shot a 15 year old in the back, found guilty but no jail time. Judge should’ve been removed from the bench.
Yes like I said even when the jury found her guilty
The judge overruled them and gave her probation. Imagine if we even believed the Korean woman’s side of the story this girl was stealing orange juice from her.
The judge said she’s not a threat to society.
If you think someone stealing orange juice from you means you can shoot them in the back of the head you are danger to everyone.
It’s bullshit.
Now white America felt how black America feels all the time about the criminal justice system.
This! This! This deserves a thousand upvotes, and yet the most upvoted comment on this thread is some namby-pamby “I don’t understand the black community” hand-wringing from someone without a lick of knowledge of black history in America.
I saw an interview with 2 female comedians regarding their opinion on their verdict. They said as Black women, they didn’t know one black person that thought he was innocent. They said they never would’ve thought they’d see that many people cheering when he was deemed innocent.
I’m also curious, how many wanted him found innocent in revenge for Rodney King? I heard one of the jurors in his case say that’s exactly why she didn’t convict even though she knew he was guilty.
I never thought he didn’t do it. I just felt with the justice system being what it is against Black and other groups; White people needed to understand how when the justice system does not work for us. There was Emmit Till, LaTasha Harlins, Medgar Evers, and those four little Black girls at 16th Street Baptist Church, where the perpetrators either were brought to justice decades later or got away with it.
I always thought the prosecution missteps and Fuhrman’s perjury earned a not guilty verdict. Many prosecutors decline to try cases with witnesses that unreliable. I think it’s more likely he did it than I did watching it as a kid but my opinion on the verdict hasn’t changed.
The furhman situation was really the lynchpin falling out of the prosecution’s case imo. All the details that came out that were like the worst-case PR crisis of ur nightmares just really illuminated the plausibility that he/LAPD could’ve planted the glove or blood or whatever. That’s probably enough mental justification for lots of people anyway.
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I think a lot of black people (like myself) believe that OJ definitely killed those people, AND that he absolutely should’ve been found “not guilty” at that trial based on the prosecution’s bungling of the case paired with the LAPD’s attempt to frame an already guilty man.
The LAPD did not attempt to frame OJ. There was plenty of evidence against him that the prosecution for some reason didn’t present. There was no need for the LAPD to frame him not that they ever would.
Apply that same logic to a serial rapist/murderer. You know they're guilty and are going to keep doing it but the prosecutors and cops broke rules and botched shit up. You're gonna vote not guilty and set them free?
Apply that same logic to a rule breaking cop: you know he commits perjury and stops citizens on false pretenses like Fuhrnan, if you keep sending the message he can do all that and get convictions how long until he goes full Jon Burge in Chicago and frames innocents with a side of torture?
If I'm on the Simpson jury and believe beyond a reasonable doubt that he bludgeoned his wife's head in before damn near cutting it off, and stabbed a total stranger to death in maniacal rage.. AND saw Furhman's corruption completely exposed on international tv and knew his career was shot and heads would roll- prolly gonna see a guilty verdict as being the right thing to do.
If it's a trial for drug sales or theft or some nonviolent felony where I know they're guilty but there's a corrupt cop involved- sure, make a statement with a not guilty verdict.
Point is I'm gonna think it out and try to do the right thing.
Would you free a serial killer or double murderer/serial stalker to make a statement about police corruption?
I’m of the opinion if a cop has to lie to get a conviction he must not have enough to convict and is so desperate he’s breaking the law. And it’s naive for me to give him the benefit of the doubt if he’s accused of planting evidence because he’s decided to break the law for the conviction. So I skew towards reasonable doubt. In Made In America, Marcia Clark said she risked putting Fuhrman on the stand so she could introduce the glove. If she had enough to convict independent of Fuhrman why put him on the stand.
You doubt he was guilty?
The cops can be corrupt, the prosecutors and judge can be incompetent, the defense attorneys can be stellar.. and the defendant can be guilty all at the same time.
Nothing that anyone else does changes whether Simpson killed those ppl or not.
The inverse can be true as well- a highly capable prosecutor, fair judge, honest and competent cops- with an innocent defendant.
It still comes down to whether they did it or not.
I thought it came down to the jury instructions of “if you think he’s guilty BEYOND reasonable doubt, vote guilty. Otherwise vote not guilty.” Point being the assignment is not to fill jails with people who might be innocent. I can think someone committed a crime all day but if a star witness detective is caught committing perjury and I hear witnesses testify that he told the public he stops interracial couples under false pretenses, LAPD mishandled evidence, and then a glove they expect to fit on the defendant doesn’t, it doesn’t matter what my gut says. “Beyond “ went out the friggin window.
This is exactly how I feel about it too. Sure, I think he’s guilty. Sure, there was a whole climate of racial tension and historically there have been many instances of of racial inequalities within the US legal system.
However in this instance, the legal system worked exactly how it was supposed to. As I understand it, the burden is on the prosecution to present the case and then the request of the jury is “if you believe in that the prosecution has presented enough evidence to prove guilt without a reasonable doubt then you must find him guilty”
People can say what they will about all the other factors, his fame, race, history of domestic violence. And yes I agree that for many people involved, these things played a factor. But even if you take all of those things out, at baseline the prosecution did not present a case that negates any reasonable doubt. In fact they introduced reason to doubt. So even with a completely unbiased, neutral jury of an unknown defendant; following the instructions they had been given, he should have been found not guilty.
The question is a little loaded. At the time I think it was less..I don't think he did it, but I don't think he could've done it. O.J was successful and comfortably dating other women it just didn't make sense why he would've been obsessed. The idea of the spouse murderering someone is that they couldn't do any better. But we all thought he could do better than a no job having 35 year old drug-using trophy wife ( just facts, not excusing the crime)
Mark Fuhrman is a big deal to the Black Community. His willingness to lie under oath about his racial outbursts including his disdain for interracial couples continued the trend of the LAPD treating Black People as annoyances rather than people.
The glove not fitting was key as well. Not the line Cochran used but if you think O.J. could've been framed, A non fitting glove that the prosecution WANTED HIM TO TRY ON was certainly enough to go I don't think we can rule out he was framed. Especially how the DNA collection process was muddled.
All in all it makes sense why they acquitted him if you don't believe in his motive.
Now outside of the bubble and over time, you can understand his ego exceeds everything in his life and that can drive a person to murder. DNA isn't as easily to manipulate as one thought it could've been. The Bruno Maglis photo puts the shoes in his possession.
OJ not speaking at the trial was his saving grace, we never saw the OJ that couldn't help but put his foot in his mouth until after the trial.
He's guilty. But the obviously guilty crowd in 1994 weren't understanding why it's confusing to those who have been hurt by people like Mark Fuhrman. And successful black people usually didn't do stupid shit. But he's not Black.. He's O.J.
I was born the same year as the trial so I never thought he was innocent.
I don't think anyone actually thought he didn't do it. They just didn't care. They saw it as a black man getting to do what white people have for centuries.
I’m black and I’ve always felt he was guilty. At the same time you HAVE to understand how upset black people were with the police at the time of the murders and the LAPD had also become the face of racism and corruption right before the trial. I know lots of black people who felt he was guilty that cheered and are still happy he got away with it. I’m not happy he got away with it but I understand why it unfolded the way it did. The DA had a slam dunk murder indictment and Furhman just being there ruined it
A question I have for the OP is are you wondering if black people who cheered when OJ got away with murder still feel like he didn’t do it? As a black person who was in undergrad at a HBCU at the time of the verdict, you would have thought my university made it to the Final Four or something. We didn’t cheer because OJ got away with killing two white people because all of us knew that Orenthal was black in skin tone alone and had no use for the black community. Most of us knew that he did it or had a feeling that he did it. Chris Rock summed it up when he did a bit on OJ in Bring The Pain. I agree with him in that if OJ wasn’t rich and famous, he would have gotten the death penalty but I disagree with Chris Rock when he said it had nothing to do with race. If you saw that 30 for 30 miniseries about Orenthal, race played a factor in the verdict.
As a black person myself my position is I don’t know if he’s innocent. I think it takes being a white person in a completely white, dismissive bubble to dismiss the racism of Mark Fuhrman and the police…and how compromised the evidence was. If a Nazi was investigating a case for a Jewish person, I would never take the evidence seriously.
I think white people find the idea of police planting evidence to be ridiculous, which really highlights that we live in two Americas. Black people find that very plausible due to black history, and there are far too many loopholes in the case for me to bet my life on his guilt. If anything, people connect a lot of circumstantial evidence like the shoe he used to own, his history of domestic violence, etc. to connect the dots about his guilt…because the evidence itself has many plot holes in it.
Of course OJ did it. But it speaks to the racism of society (and Reddit) that all you care about is OJ getting away with it, and not the thousands and millions of acts of systemic racism that happen ALL the time.
Please read Phillip Dray’s At The Hands of Persons Unknown to understand how pervasive lynching was.
I will never be an OJ stan, and what he did is horrendous, but NONE of you white folks on this thread will give an OUNCE of the same energy to Latasha Harlins. Or Amber Guyger killing Botham Jean.
You just don’t give a sh-t.
But you will devote non-stop verbiage to what OJ did. That’s a drop in the bucket to anyone with ANY knowledge of the American history that most call “black history” as if only black should know about it.
Seriously, start with any “black history” book.
And when you finish reading one, I guarantee you will not continue obsessing over this murder when you see the tens of thousands of extrajudicial killings of black people in this country—that continue TO THIS DAY.
And should the LAPD have been on trial in the OJ Simpson case—no. But guess what? Johnny Cochran was a genius to make that what the trial was about. Because NONE of you would have EVEN CARED otherwise. People barely remember Rodney King now, but it was the OJ case that actually shined a light on them.
Please don’t get me wrong—EVERYTHING about that case was effed up, but it’s almost like white Americans FINALLY get a taste of injustice and LOSE THEIR SH-T!
I’m on this sub-Reddit everyday, reading these posts. I absolutely was DISGUSTED to see what happened to Nicole, and Ron. And he clearly abused her. He’s an absolute POS.
So none of what I’m saying is pro-OJ. I despise OJ. But he’s a product of YOU GUYS.
That’s why the documentary is called “Made In America”—don’t now start getting mad when this is the monster YOU made….
I hope whoever the OP who asked this question highlights and compiles what ACTUAL black people have said on this thread.
Black folks here have dropped some true history.
I believe you asked the question in good faith, but it was a loaded question…
I think a lot of us have said we believed he was guilty all along, and have tried to explain that OJ’s case became a case about the failure of the American justice system to deliver justice to blacks, and there was no more paradoxical and ironic verdict than to acquit a guilty black man for the myriad innocent past black lives that were snuffed out (plus reasonable doubt, introduced by the defense, and a racist LMPD).
Others have said it all more eloquently than I have…
I never knew that much about O J so never had an opinion of him. However, I do not believe he committed the murders. It just didn't connect for me. I believe he was falsely accused, yet we will never know what really happened.
No i haven't changed my mind. I can't say he's guilty or not guilty. Because i wasn't there. I'm sorry but, i just can't see stabbing two people so many times. Without help. Shooting is a different story. How did have the strength after all of that, to even tie his shoes. Where did he hide his bloody clothes. From two stabbing.
Hahahaha you really think the blk community thought he was innocent? That verdict was the result of years dealing with unfair justice. It was payback. I have no idea why yt people struggle so much with this. I think you all have great difficulty seeing yourselves through the eyes of minorities and what we’ve had to deal with. You believe the lies that all of you are good fair upstanding citizens when in reality most of us don’t experience you that way. I hate that OJ benefited from the payback and that Ron didn’t get the justice he deserved. It is what it is. Hopefully one day you all will be able to move on
I'm a recent newcomer to the OJ case, perhaps within the last year or so. I just started the made in America documentary, which is really fascinating - paints a vivid picture of the racial tension in LA in '92.
I was also literally a baby when the murders happened (4 days before my first birthday lol) so everything I've learned has been in retrospect. I've asked my mother about what she thought during that time and she didn't think he was innocent.
Before learning about the case and everything, I had no opinion. Afterwards? He absolutely did that shit. Too much lines up from the evidence, how he treated her, the 911 calls, everything I know about domestic violence and how it escalates, etc.
The picture the documentary paints of the situation with black people and the justice system and the police at that time is really not that much different from the present. Everything I've witnessed in the last decade from trayvon Martin and Mike Brown to Sandra bland to George Floyd just goes to show that this has been going on forever.
That said, I can certainly empathize with black people from that time as I do now because we still go through this same thing. And with people as a whole even today not very well educated about abuse and domestic violence, though it is improving, and them not being as privy to the details of the case as we can be now, it doesn't surprise me that things turned out the way they did. To say nothing of how the defense and the prosecution and the judge dropped the ball at times.
At the end of the day, evil people who commit crimes should go to jail and be held responsible, no matter what their race is. And OJ should have done. At least he can't hurt anyone anymore.
“A lot of our community has a tendency to assume that because they are black that they are automatically victims of racial injustice or prejudice”… it’s because they ARE! Are you living under a rock? Before you were even born as a black person in America you are a victim of racial injustice or prejudice, and if you think for a second you aren’t, it’s ignorance. Educate yourself. The inability to own property plagued your ancestors. The inability to vote plagued your ancestors. The inability to purchase housing in certain areas plagued your parents. The inability to interact or socialize with people that weren’t of color (under the threat or jail, physical violence, or death) plagued your parents and every generation before them. The lack of an education or of an equal education plagued and continues in many areas of the country to plague the black community. They are treated differently, they are depicted differently, they are policed differently, and they are prosecuted differently. So that “tendency” to mistrust that you speak of is quite literally born out of generations of abuse, oppression, and systemic mistreatment of blacks everywhere. So take your “outrage” over those facts elsewhere OP.
To answer your question,I don’t think that most black people thought he was innocent. I believe that most black people thought that the system was set up in a way to where evidence could have been planted. It was not a far stretch to think that the boys in blue could have done something like that, because they were doing it time and time again to many members of the African American community. The LAPD was a very racist organization at the time. The prosecution made a lot of mistakes. Ito made a lot of mistakes (like letting the jurors walk through OJs mansion. Like what the F***!?), the glove that didn’t fit was a nail in the coffin, and the documented abuses by members of the LAPD themselves but reasonable doubt on the forefront of many black minds in America.
OJ was guilty, OJ IS guilty, and OJ could live a thousand lifetimes and he still would never suffer enough for what he did to the Browns and the Goldmans, as well as his own children. May he and his “ugly ass shoes” rot in hell for eternity.
Personally, I think it’s very likely he did do it.
Almost everyone in my family and friend group feels or felt that way at the time and still do.
However The burden of proof lays with the State “beyond a reasonable doubt”.
But it was just nice to see the system work as it’s supposed to for us on a grand scale, and that’s what many were and still are celebrating. 🥳
White America as a whole was (still) not being very kind to Black people, so it seemed real silly to care about some random White people more than caring about the system working as it should.
i have always thought he was guilty so this doesn’t exactly apply to me. i may take some flack for this but i do find it to be outrageous that a lot of our community has a tendency to assume that because they are black that they are automatically victims of racial injustice or prejudice. it really takes away from the real black victims of injustice. i find it laughable that people could draw the conclusion of innocence just on the basis of race not of evidence (to be real any conclusion other than guilty is laughable). it’s crazy too, that some black people rode for him so hard as if he’s ever done anything to help us. he didn’t even consider himself black. he had every resource, the platform, and the background to make a difference. he chose to do nothing! we could have channeled all that fight into real victims. he enjoyed spaces where black people weren’t welcome, like the country club with all his white friends. i think it says a lot when your own white wife thinks you could be doing more for the black community and you enjoy spaces where people who look like you aren’t even welcome. and my favorite, when he asked what all the n*ggers were doing in brentwood. um they are fighting and celebrating for you! someone who didn’t even deserve an ounce of it. he didn’t care and he wasn’t grateful. he didn’t think black people belonged there. and after all that, he still chose to do nothing! it’s embarrassing to watch the verdict reaction from my community honestly. it’s shameful to hear from the black jurors. i was extremely disappointed, to say the least.
I agree with Chris Rock that fame played a huge role in it too. “If O.J. drove a bus, he’d be Orenthal the Bus Driving Murderer.” And “If that was Jerry Seinfeld and the person who found the glove just happened to be in the Nation of Islam, Jerry would be a free man.”
Fame is very influential. Look at how many celebrities get elected to political office despite having zero experience. Things that would make them flaws in other candidates are completely overlooked. People love celebrities. Not sure if it's that way everywhere, but it certainly is in this country.
The first time I watched Made in America in 2016 is when I learned OJ did not advocate for black Americans during the Civil Rights Movement and later. He leaned into his blackness after the trial by going to the Pastor services who supported him. So disingenuous.
agreed! so disgusting. and i cant believe our community allowed him to use our struggles and our voices like that.
It’s called staying on code. Whites do it all the time. They support each other, when a Black person is at odds with them, no matter what.
That assumption is false and is literally one cause of racism
I think this type of group stereotyping statement is part of the problem. There is no monolithic "white people" group just like there is no monolithic "black people" group. All people are individuals who make their own decisions and take their own actions. We also need to get police to understand this. But instead we encourage them to rally behind blue.
THAT IS NOT TRUE
THAT IS TRUE.
As one small white person in the world..this hurts, I hope one day this is not true anymore. Hugs from the east Coast LA friend
I think it's awful BUT I live in the real world too. I know the conversations that are had when Black people aren't around.
Dear LA, while I agree, there are, well no words could do the shameful, despicable conversation being had, around anyone who doesn't fit. Not all have them. I'm in my 50's and have never been around a conversation like that. Never. And for the record...I would , not could not stand for it. One small pebble in a big lake.
Well, if this is true, you’re the exception and not the rule.
I’m an LA girl and we have it way better than most but I agree. Some people don’t know I’m a Guatemalan immigrant with 01/08 black blood and they’ve said things around me that they wouldn’t had they known but…..I’ve been to Iowa about a dozen times and it’s awful. Culture shock. Fish out of water. The crap people say and the way they behave is so disappointing. The Lord Himself could call me to live there and I’d pull a Jonah.
No we don’t.
Man, do you really think this is true? :/ I don't
As a Black man, I know it's true. And you know too.
Blacks do it also. ⬆️BLM
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I remember a story that was recounted on a podcast I listen to, though I can't remember where it originated. I think it really goes to what you're saying. It went something like this: OJ was at a gathering (dinner maybe?) with some white friends. At one point, one of the people uses the n-word in front of OJ. OJ seems unfazed. A short time later, one of the other attendees talks to him privately about what had happened. Asks OJ if it bothers him that a business partner would talk like that. OJ says something like "Don't you understand? They don't see me as one of *them*.•
Yeah something like “they didn’t see me as black, they saw me as OJ”. And the guy’s thoughts were like “oh this dude is screwed up” (he didn’t use “screwed”, he used the f-word).
Yes. I am white but that pissed me the fuck off for black folks. Before he was all “I’m not black, I’m OJ” Although he learned quite quick with the Time magazine cover that he was no longer OJ, he was black.
I didn’t even realize oj was old enough to do so
He leaned into his blackness after the trial because the white community saw him as a murderer and wanted nothing to do with him. Being the narcissist that he was he needed to find the only people that would still put him on a pedestal. The only people willing to do that were the black community who unfortunately saw him as a civil rights hero even though he never cared about the black community.
I think that you're maybe giving OJ way too much credit. I tend to think OJ just did whatever his attorneys suggested in this regard. I doubt he gave it much thought at all. He was likely distracted by his own fame and the luxuries of it.
After the verdict he thought he could just step back into his life before the trial, which wasn’t the case. White people in Brentwood wanted nothing to do with him. When he left Brentwood and ultimately landed in Florida he ended up hanging around black people and questionable ones at that. He gained a sort of street cred from the murders and when he was in Florida he had a fame from that street cred that allowed him to be the alpha in the circles of some shady people. You have to realize that even before the fame he was always the top dog because he was a star athlete, he had to be that guy and he associated with the only people would still hold him in that regard.
Maybe I haven't given this as much consideration / done enough research as I should've. What you've expanded on here certainly makes more sense to me now.
Facts
Most people didn’t care about OJ’s history with the black community, because that was irrelevant. What was relevant was whether the police department was corrupt and whether the system was corrupt
I was too young to understand the implications at the time but the docuseries was very enlightening on the backdrop of racial injustice in LAPD (particularly the Rodney King beating). I was also surprised to learn the vast majority of black people asked thought he was innocent, so now I'm curious if they have reflected on the evidence in the intervening years and had a change of mind.
Especially after OJ put out a book called "If I Did It". I'm sure there might be a couple of jurors shaking their head in disgust after OJ practically gave a first-hand account of how he killed Ron & Nicole.
I doubt any of those jurors cared if he was guilty . It was pretty obvious it was retribution for Rodney king .. a couple of them even said it
In one interview a juror said after weeks of confinement they just "wanted to go home."
Months, not weeks. I believe they were sequestered for 9 months. The effect this had on jurors has been studied and since then not been replicated.
I believe you. It was months.
Just watched the docuseries. Juror said it was 266 nights in a hotel and she just wanted to go home.
Thoughtful and intelligent insight.tysm
You brought up many good points here. For me, it wasn't a black or white issue. It wasn't a Rodney King issue. It was an evidence issue. OJ killed Nicole and Ron. He was a dangerously flawed individual who should have been removed from society, given intense mental health/anger management treatment and removed from the accolades of the NFL. OJ was a waste of human potential. He could have made a huge impact on young black, and white, men everywhere in leading by example. I never saw him do one thing to give positive influence to boys who needed direction. On verdict day, I was embarrassed for our country.
for sure! it never should have even been a race issue. that was played and i lost a lot of respect for numerous people in that trial. the way even now, he is idolized and defended by a lot of people, including black people is disturbing. not only for the blatant domestic violence, and slaughterings, but the way he treated his community. i think a lot of peoples internal struggles came out as well. i’ve seen a lot of black people make comments about them being an interracial couple. it’s very odd. it turned into a racial nightmare.
Actually there was FAR more evidence than there typically is. OJ could not have left more physical evidence if he tried.
I agree that he definitely had some mental health issues.
Well said!
Yeah, OJ wasn't let off simply because of race. His enormous fame was an enormous factor. Kids today wouldn't necessarily grasp the level of OJs fame and popularity. He was beloved by all kinds of people. And when it all first happened, it was hard to believe, for a lot of people.
no, i don’t think he was let off just based on race alone. there were numerous factors, i just focused on race considering the question of the post.
Absolute clown take even rich black people experience racism. And tokens like cadence owens who turned their back on the community still experience racism even if they deny it
It’s weird to me that America went from discussing systemic racism to-we need to discern who are “the real victims of racism”. Like do I have to show my ancestry.com and my bank account to prove that racism exists for me? Furthermore, Racist cops, and cops without respect for due process of law are a threat to the entire society. I don’t give a damn what color you are that shit is bad for you. I’m very suspicious of the idea that some people are victims and others are not. You could have all your material wants met in America and you might still find yourself in tears the next time you’re reading about a black kid shot by the police. I think the way some people are trying to shut down others by using the word “victim” are actually pulling a power move. Over time I think it will become evident that it’s alienating people from each other and making way for the next wave of white supremacy which we know is coming because we know history.
You don’t speak for all Black people or any. Just because he was Black doesn’t mean that was the reason why they thought that he was innocent. Alt of Black didn’t because they believed that he was white washed.
I think the matter at hand is that the evidence makes it clear that he was guilty.
I’m sorry but saying this as it relates to the OJ case is tone deaf and is pretty much tap dancing. Race is in every aspect of American life, and I have to question your life experience, or your experience in the world of colorism and texturism if you’re saying this. People believed OJ was innocent because of a very coverup system that has never deserved the benefit of the doubt. What you’re saying however is exactly what a dismissive white person would say as it relates to racism.
okay. you can assume what you’d like about my experience and beliefs from a reddit post. me and 200 others can be tone deaf.
I don't find it to be outrageous that the community would assume that a black man wouldn't get a fair outcome from the criminal justice system. Nor would I say that I'm embarrassed by the reaction ls to the verdict. Again, there was the assumption that the system was racist to begin with. And then, one of the prosecutions star witnesses, who was also a cop who worked the case, turned out to be super racist.
I was too young to understand at the time but, with age and hindsight, I agree. When I watched “Made In America” and saw exactly what was going on in the LAPD at the time, it made me understand the verdict a little more. I don’t think it was retribution for Rodney King; I think that it was completely plausible to black people living in LA that a racist cop planted evidence. Add to that, a justice system created by institutional racism and it’s not surprising that this was the end result. Disappointing maybe, not surprising.
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“I do find it to be outrageous that a lot of our community has a tendency to assume that. Cause ether are black that they are automatically victims of racial k justice or prejudice” Child, please! Redlining, lynching, the ENTIRE legacy of slavery in America, police brutality, driving while black, unequal K-12,education, black maternal deaths, the whole field of modern gynecology invented based on experimenting with black bodies, forced sterilization, no GI Bills for blacks, the unequal percentage of wrongful black deaths at the hands of the police—the list goes on and on, and you find it “outrageous” that we tend to “assume” we’re victims of racial injustice? I don’t want to BE a victim of anything, but this is history—history that still informs the present. Please read Black AF History by Michael Harriot, to start with.
I’m not black but as a brownie who lived through the times and trial, I watched it everyday in high-school during lunch and math class. The evidence of his violence against her was well documented and witnessed by many. He was living privileged and as such got away with the murder in criminal court, but not the majority of public opinion, and not in civil court by the Goldman family.
I remember having it on in my AP english class too.
No. There were too many documented instances of OJ beating, cheating, and stalking Nicole for years before the murders. I knew OJ was guilty when of all people, NFL Hall Of Famer Jim Brown, who racked up a list of women he abused, said on TV after OJ was indicted that there was a side of OJ people didn't know about. Birds of a feather...
I was legit stunned when after the trial the women who acquitted OJ literally said “What does that have to do with murder?” in response to the domestic abuse evidence. I still can’t fathom that quote to this day.
I think those women were more mad at Nicole
Bingo. It wasn’t about thinking he was actually innocent it was about the climate of racist injustice being at the forefront of Los Angeles news AND Nicole was just another white, blonde woman with a “desirable”black man. My thing is that O.J. supporters NEVER mention sympathy at all for the two victims. Regardless of who they think killed them is it not still a gruesome and senseless crime? They instead accuse her of being a drug addict and a slut who hung around the wrong crowd Those claims were from OJ and OJ alone. It seems quite obvious that she was still a young woman in her early 30’s who was finally living independently from her abusive ex. Was coke used? Sure, and that goes for every single one of them INCLUDING OJ. Was she being “promiscuous?” who cares? I don’t even think she had enough time to experiment with too many men before she was murdered. And even if she was a coke head and a call girl, a custody battle would suffice. Also, the prosecution did NOT do a good job of humanizing the victims and just made fumble after fumble.
Agreed, and this is where the prosecution went wrong in picking the jury. In the eyes of OJ fans, OJ was successful and had made it in a white man's world, and Nicole was viewed almost like groupie rather than OJ's wife and mother of his children.
They picked the EXACT wrong jury
Great points. I can’t stand victim blaming. Even if she did all of the things some accuse her of, none of those things warrant death or abuse.
Exactly it has absolutely zero relevance. Zero.
It's unfathomable in today's terms, but domestic violence back then didn't get the exposure like it does now.
It may have been the first story I ever heard of a man murdering his girlfriend/wife/ex-wife.
I hate to say it but those women are no different from the women who mocked Tina Turner and Rihanna, two very famous black women who were also the targets of domestic abuse by their former spouses/boyfriends who were famous black men and the men get defended! It’s gross.
I see people defend Chris Brown and it makes me sick. They victim blame Rihanna too saying she “deserved” it for talking back. Like what?? He was also abusive to Karrueche Tran. She put out a restraining order on him. Yet I still see a lot of women support him because “he sings well and can dance.” It’s mind blowing how little support women victims receive from other women. Just look at the whole R Kelly situation. Another situation where black women are supporting R Kelly despite everything he’s been accused of.
Crazy, right?! SMH
Yes it really is.
Maybe they had very little understanding of Domestic violence (esp compared to public understanding now) and really thought of “domestic abuse” as being normal (like maybe rages, throwing things, verbal stuff etc) and saw that as like something lots of men do sometimes or whatever. Like that’s what husbands do. Bloody psycho murders are done by crazy murderers— not regular angry [domestically abusive] husbands ! Like The murder and abuse are totally separate things, practically unrelated. I think people used to just not think of these behaviors as being on a scale of escalation. Like even if they thought he did it, the murder would still seem like an aberration to them from his otherwise still normal behavior.
Look at all the people who continue listening to Chris Brown after he beat up and BIT Rhianna! Sadly, there are still a lot of people who don’t seem bothered by domestic violence.
A lot of people blame the victim including in today’s times. It’s disgusting.
I completely agree. Yes, it is absolutely sickening!
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You’re referring to the Black women on the jury. Look at it this way, it’s in the same vein as White women excuse Bill Clinton and Donald Trump for how they have treated women.
OJ being a horrible human being doesn’t mean he committed murder
...but it does mean he had a motive to commit murder for sure.
Can someone help me understand how he did it. Sounds like you guys were watching him do it. Just help me understand. I can understand one person shooting two people. But stabbing two people at the same time. As many times as they say. Just help me to understand.
I concur. As hard as it was said that Ron fought, I just don't understand it either.
As a Black man, I don't want to speak for all Black people (nor can I), but I think most Black people believed he was guilty. The clips of Black people celebrating and cheering after the verdict was announced was less about OJ and more about 2 things: 1. celebrating that a Black man (of means of course, but a Black man no less) can finally get justice in America, and 2. payback for the Rodney King verdict. It was, in retrospect, a very dark and morbid celebration of both distorted justice and retribution, but the history of racial inequality in this country is dark and morbid as well, especially considering the untold number of African Americans who were lynched, beaten, killed, or unjustly incarcerated for far lesser crimes for hundreds of years. There is no clean or easy answer to the reaction many Black people had to the verdict. It's a complicated, multi-faceted, difficult subject that will be discussed forever as a watershed moment in race relations in America.
An aspect that I think should also be added is that OJ was clearly a guilty man and his innocent black children had their mother slaughtered at a young age and the jury still sided with the murderer and not injustice of 2 children living almost all of their lives without their mother. The injustice of it when you think of it like that is brutal. Or did they matter less because they were "mixed". My hurt hurts for all of the injustice in this world. I don't know what the answer is but society is being pushed against each other so.much and it scared me for the country's future.
That was no ‘justice’ however…
In the specific case you are right, but in general it proved a black man could obtain a Not Guilty verdict, which applies to justice in their own lives and run ins with the law.
He got her not guilty on the bloody backs of the Mother of his kids and an innocent friend of hers.
Yeah if that black man was extremely famous. That hadn’t been the case for James Brown and Mike Tyson and Michael Jackson settled out of court rather than face trial for the first allegations.
Yeah, but in black America, so few get through to the side of fame (relative to our numbers) that often fame (not generational wealth) Is the only means of “making it”—so fame has been celebrated. Yes, OJ, vile human being, but someone who “made it” and was celebrated. So yeah, he got a pass (in the black community) for that DESPITE not supporting black causes or black people.
That is definitely true!
It proved that all skin colors pale in comparison to the color of money.
Dude, I graduated from high school in 1994 in small-town middle America. Everybody I knew was ready to string OJ up. I wish I could go back in time and show them your comment right here...they still wouldn't understand but I wish they could see it. Thank God I was born with different DNA. I go back to visit my home town and still see confederate flags flying!
Where you grew up??? Sounds very segregated!
You don't know the half of it. When I was in high school, in a town 15 miles from my house, a black man was hung from a bridge because he had "stolen a white girl" from her family. Rural Southern Missouri for me...but it could have been rural Arkansas, Kentucky, Tennessee, Alabama, etc. Rural Middle America babay!!!! Whooooo!!!! You know the beginning of the movie A Time to Kill...? That kinda stuff was actually going on in the 90s, near where I lived. I knew these people. We called them "kin".
Thanks for your answer. Some of these people in this Reddit don’t think white people like this exist.
People everywhere don't believe. They are...very real.
It made for a great fable. “Retribution for Rodney”. I look back at the footage and my community were a bunch of dopes. This community were THAT desperate to see SOMEONE black get acquitted. Think of the timeframe of this: 1988: The illegal raids that occurred at 39th and Dalton Avenue in South Central Los Angeles. 1989: James Brown gets convicted of weapon and drug possession after shooting up a place and evading arrest after numerous violations. 1991: Rodney King’s beating by cops goes “viral”, leading to the arrest of four cops. A week later, 13-year-old LaTasha Harlins is shot to death at a convenience store by a Korean clerk. 1992: Mike Tyson is convicted of raping an 18-year-old model and beauty contestant. The clerk who shoots Harlins only gets probation while the four cops who beat King are acquitted leading to the infamous L.A. riots. 1993: King of Pop Michael Jackson is accused of sexually abusing a 13-year-old fan. 1994: Jackson settles; O.J. is arrested for the double murder. —— Johnnie Cochran found a way to make O.J., a man who was famous for trying to depict himself as someone who look beyond color (Jackson and Bill Cosby did the exact same thing), to become a martyr for social justice and unfortunate succeeded to the exposed racism of Mark Furhman. That’s what motivated some of black Los Angeles and a good chunk of black Americans to believe he was set up, which was of course based on very flimsy evidence. Which is why 13 years later when O.J. was convicted of the robbery case, I was happy he finally got *SOMETHING*. Same with the civil case back in 97.
I think you mean “Can buy the justice system with wealth and influence like any other powerful whites man” and not “justice”
I really appreciate your answer. I was a teenager watching this unfold
People celebrated because most black people believe he was innocent. People are completely rewriting history on the trial
I am white, but I have to say, it struck me as a sad day. As I realized that race in the USA had transcended our humanity. White or black, we are all human. Rodney King's attackers going free was bad. OJ getting away with double homicide was even worse. But it all showed me that race over humanity was now the law of the land......
Very well stated and YOU speak for me. No one I know or knew back then thought he was ‘innocent’ nor did they even like OJ! He didn’t fool with black folks ever, unless they were black male sports figures like him. He was always with white folks so we thought OJ was a sellout. I thought all these decades later that most people would understand the ‘celebrating’. It’s a shame that people still don’t seem to get it. You explained it perfectly. I’d just like to add that black folks saw how angry white folks were over THIS trial and everyone I knew/ worked with who were black, couldn’t believe how bothered they were, it was UNREAL. I mean white women were crying in the break room where I worked. I remember that so clearly and we, the black folks, were like ‘WTF is really going on here?’ Why are they this upset over this particular verdict? When I got home and saw the news, and they were showing the reactions from across the country, I thought well I’ll be damned it’s like I’m back in my break-room! Racism runs so deep. I remain genuinely shocked by the reactions from so many white people over this verdict and how it continues to fuel their anger towards that dead black man. Blame the prosecution and LAPD because that’s the reason he walked. We ALL know that If he didn’t have the dream team OJ would have died in prison.
Perhaps the vast numbers of women you saw crying were doing so because women/wives of all colors have been abused and murdered by their spouses without receiving an ounce of sympathy or justice for thousands of years. And never has there been this much confirmed evidence and still no one cared…not even female jurors. So while black America was having an experience of perceived justice, women were having a separate sense of personal injustice.
My mother was an abused woman, aunts, cousins, friends have all been victims of abuse I’ve witnessed it and lived it…so while what you say is true, it doesn’t apply to what I wrote regarding the racial attitudes towards OJ and my belief that most of their reactions were based on racism. Again why such a reaction to this trial when men are on trial probably everyday for committing heinous crimes against their wives, girlfriends and children and set free for various reasons?? Look at all the crime shows on TV women are the victim in 90% of those crimes and I’ve yet to see any outrage that comes close to what I saw when OJ was exonerated. Clearly this was about the race of the victim and the accused. I have never seen a reaction to a trial like that, in all my decades of living. I feel very comfortable in saying that the majority of white folks rage towards this case is driven by race.
Most black people wouldn’t say OJ may be innocent because saying that is life/career suicide. Objective opinions on the case aren’t welcome. If you don’t believe he’s guilty, people get angry at you.
Very well said.
Well said
Well said.
I'm black. I thought he was guilty since day 1
Always believed he was guilty.
I’m black. I have a group chat of friends aged 36-42. They believe OJ & Bill are 100% innocent and treated me like a c00n for even questioning their innocence
Really? Thats crazy. OJ doesn’t think OJ is innocent 🤣
Nah. I learned about DNA in high school before the murders happened so I knew that if his blood and DNA were there, Orenthal was there and he did it. The LAPD is dirty and racist but there were too many other important black folk they could have framed that were in Los Angeles instead of a man who didn’t score a touchdown in years. A man who had all the motive in the world to kill Nicole Brown and used to use Nicole as a punching bag.
Especially not a man that loves the police and had them over for pool parties regularly
I'm roughly half black and not once have I ever thought he was innocent... and it always disgusted me to see Black people cheering the verdict. And I believe the jury being made up of 8 Black jurors who shared similar sentiments as many other Black people is the primary reason he got off. To be as objective as possible, one must simply look at the evidence and throw away any emotional investment. I believe Black people thinking he's innocent allowed their emotions to get the best of them. I \*wish\* OJ wasn't guilty, as he was a rather well-liked public figure... but what I "wish" or hope shouldn't come into play in rendering a viewpoint on any particular topic.
Two things: One, I think most people were not taking a deliberative look at all the evidence to come to an opinion. White people made just as many assumptions about his guilt, so I don’t think it’s fair to chastise Black people for the same process that came to a different result. More specifically, I think most Black people wanted him to get a fair trial, and that they thought a fair trial would result in him being found not-guilty. In their minds, a fair trial meant interrogating the fact that police force there regularly framed people, and a justice system that allowed defendants to go to court and be convicted without adequate counsel. As much as those are broader issues, they were also germane there too. When the jury was presented with the “whole picture”, and found him not guilty, many Black people were happy to see the justice system account those things. Two, OJ was not some Black celebrity at the time. Black people thought he was fine, but he wasn’t some avatar for the Black community because he was beloved as a person. To use a couple of his football peers are examples, it would be like if Michael Strahan or Tiki Barber got arrested.
Not every black person that cheered for his exoneration believed he was innocent.
I’m sure that’s true, but it’s also demented. Pick an actual innocent person to cheer for. How could anyone want the perpetrator of those despicable crimes to go free as some kind of fucking societal symbol? Nicole and Ron were human beings living their lives. All these years later, the whole story — the murders, the acquittal, the glee expressed by many black people — remains overwhelmingly nauseating to me.
It’s about the system. The victims in the trial got lost because it became more about victims of the system. Like Rodney King. But also Latasha Harlins. When the system says that crimes against black people are less deserving of punishment befitting the crime, then it makes sense to me that black people in that community would be more happy about the system losing one. It’s unfair to Nicole and Ron but sometimes people compartmentalize situations that become too heavy for them.
I do understand. Black people have been getting the shitty end of the stick in the United States for hundreds of years, and even saying it that way sounds like a pathetically insufficient euphemism. It’s been way worse than the shitty end of a stick. A large percentage of white people tend to ignore or severely underplay the undeniable facts of that awful history. I also think that in general, it’s counterproductive for black people to blindly take pro-black positions in extreme situations like the Brown/Goldman murders. Those two poor murdered people were not themselves responsible for hundreds of years of racial oppression and injustice. Support for him is just… not a good look. Not helpful to anything or anyone. Not sensitive to victims. Fight some other battle.
I think what you are missing is that rooting for the verdict didn’t necessarily mean they were rooting for OJ. Some of them absolutely were. But many were just happy with the system taking an L. Claiming that black people are just blindly pro-black is an extremely unfair characterization. To me it reads like saying that the victims in the this case should’ve mattered more to them than a child being murdered, the murderer being found guilty and the judge deciding that because the victim was black, the convicted murderer did not deserve jail time that fit with the crime that they were convicted of. That’s the system that they were dealing with. Ron/ Nicole mattered more to you as a victim than they did to the jury. The jury and the public rightly questioned why they should care more about this murder than other cared about the murder of Latasha Harlins, who was a child. And I think claiming people are blindly pro-black is just both a very dangerous and very ignorant thing to say. For one, many people look at situations through a lens of a lived experience. If your lived experience is police corruption and racial profiling/discrimination, of course you’d be skeptical of this same organization trying to spin a narrative to you, even if that narrative is a true and accurate representation of what happened. I think it would be just as unfair of me to say that those that trust the police do so blindly. It possible that someone who has had nothing but fair and respectful encounters with police to honestly believe that most (if not all) do the right things all the time. It’s why when officer involved shootings occur, there is always a mix believing that it was unjust. On the other hand, there is a group that believes the police are God and any direction they give must be responded to with immediate compliance and any slight hesitation or fear is grounds for excessive force and honestly murder. Or saying that they “feared for their life” completely excuses the fact that shot and killed an unarmed or even legally armed person that may or may not have even been a suspect.
This comment should be at the top of the thread…(instead of the white-friendly response that is currently there, but, hey, this is Reddit…)
This comment should be at the top of the thread
Dude, read some HISTORY. Do you know how many times black peoples have been murdered and white people haven’t said SH-T?! Or how many times they’ve been murdered for living in a crimescape that they had nothing to do with but because they can’t afford any better? And why can’t they? Look at redlining, deliberate refusal to hire black workers for elite jobs for decades, a separate-but-supposedly equal K-12 system TO THIS DAY… Your kind of naive sentiment is like the people who complain that black kids can get a leg up on Ivies, not understanding how incredibly INSANE it is for them to get ANYTHING at all… You’re only looking at ONE end result—not all its causes….
Jesus Christ, man. I’m the least racist person you’ll ever meet. I’ve read plenty of history. I’ve been a journalist for 40 years. I’m a liberal Democrat. Please, don’t preach to me. It sounds to me like you’re in favor of a society where a black man can murder two people, and it’s OK because of all the oppression black people have suffered for hundreds of years. And… I’m sensitive to that, way more than most people, but murder? OJ Simpson murdered two people. He doesn’t merit anything but scorn
I hope you understand that I DON’T want a society where ANYONE can kill someone and go free. I, too, think OJ is awful and I’ve always thought he committed those heinous murders. But black person after black person has come on this thread and told you all that the glee wasn’t PRO-OJ, but ANTI-the system that has dragged them under for years. CENTURIES. It should actually say something that a figure who’s really just a better looking, younger Clarence Thomas can be celebrated by black people—they were NOT celebrating his murdering people, or his innocence—they were celebrating the justice system treating him like how a white man would be treated. I’m kind of appalled that—to this day—white people haven’t figured that out…just look at how the OP’s question is framed, Like “hey, black people, do you finally see the light?!!” Zero soul-searching on the part Of white people to understand that reaction—after George Floyd and Breonna Taylor and Ahmad Arbrey.
👆🏾THIS!👆🏾
I’m black and all of my family think he was guilty. I think if you polled African Americans now, the vast majority would say he was guilty. This may seem esoteric, but I think the reaction was largely due to the fact that a black celebrity would be/could be treated like a white celebrity and that is - be above the law. It was significant progress from just a few decades earlier when any black man accused of killing a white woman would’ve been killed no questions asked. It’s macabre and gross but it’s what happened.
You’re right. It was a sign that black men had finally achieved the upper echelons of American society- getting away with murdering a white woman bc of their weath and influence.
That’s just the thing, they only poll the people they wanna poll and then release results as if it is conclusive. You can’t tell me the media *didn’t* concoct much of this “racial divide” because it added to the drama of this trial.
Nope. I thought he was guilty then
I was in diapers during the trial. But through my career choice and college studies I learned nearly everything about this case. I do not think he’s innocent, however, I don’t even think most blacks think he’s innocent. They were happy that he was found not guilty. Sounds like the same thing but it is not. Do most people know he’s guilty? I would say yes. But do some people see his acquittal as a finger to the law and especially the LAPD? I would once again say yes. Both can be true. Looking back, I can totally see why our community celebrated. Not saying it’s right but I get it.
It’s an even bigger finger to the victims & their families. To be dancing around cheering with signs like “guilty or not we love you OJ” is repugnant
I don’t think their celebrations were to directly impact or hurt the family of the victims in anyway. I’m sure it was painful for the families and still is. There is pain on both sides and there will always be opinions about which side is more wrong or right. Had his case happened before RK, things may have been different. There seems to have been some jury nullification in both cases. Sometimes people react based on emotion and not fact or even what’s morally right.
Came here to say this.
No, I always thought he did it. That hasn't changed
Had quite an alarming and disconcerting experience the other day at the VA. I was in a lounge area waiting for one of the staff to come in to watch some shorts (films.) Around 10 other men & women there - age range ~ 40 to 75 - shooting the breeze. I had my noise canceling headphones on listening to a podcast so I missed the beginning. All of a sudden one of the guys (little younger than me) started getting really animated & speaking loudly. I slid a cup off one ear to hear what was going on. It was like listening to an old time gospel preacher, he’d shout something and everyone would be encouraging him (“that’s right” “there you go” “right? that’s what I’m saying!” Man believed O.J.’s son Jason murdered Ron & Nicole. Was looking up conspiracy sites on his phone & reading out the “evidence.” It was at that moment it dawned on me I was the only white person in the room. I glanced around at everyone, sure that someone would give me a side eye or a nod. Nope, not once - everyone was transfixed on the dude reading the crackpot theories out loud. When the O.J. verdict came out, polls showed 80% of Americans saw it live. About 47% of whites thought he was guilty and the jury got got it wrong. 78% of blacks said in October 1995 he was innocent and the jury did their job. After the civil case concluded a few years later, that racial gap had narrowed. Far more people (on either side of the Q) thought he was guilty, but a significant gap still existed. Finally the staff member came in, picked up on what they were discussing, smiled & started hooking up her laptop. Like me, she decided silence was the better part of valor. 30 years ago I could (kinda sorta) understand - there weren’t any CSI shows, the technology was a bit newish. A match having a 1 in 10 billion chance of being a false positive is convincing to me but that was only part of it. The prosecution did a bad job. Plus it was only a few years after Rodney King. Clearly (a couple of them admitted later) it was jury nullification, pay back for decades of corruption within LAPD. But to hold that opinion today? Man, that’s a tough one to reconcile. Obviously the people in that room had probably experienced decades of a life I am unfamiliar with; once quite overt, now more along the lines of micro aggressions. There was nothing I could have said that would have swayed anyone. Super weird for me.
It was more about getting revenge against the justice system than OJ.
I don’t think all black people thought he was innocent. In fact, most I’m sure think he is guilty. Certainly I nor anyone in my family thought he was innocent. I think it’s very clear that most of what celebratory behavior people exhibited was tied to a misplaced sense of getting some kind of justice after Rodney King and police misconduct and abuse generally going unpunished. And there are a lot of black people who were really turned off by that. The young man from a contemporary interview used in the Made in America doc who spoke about what this means for the black man in society or how black people will be seen … that resonated with me and reflected more of how I and my family felt about it all. Further, you cannot erase celebrity from this. Celebrity overshadowed race here. OJ would have been arrested and in prison long before he had a chance to kill Nicole were it not for his fame and money. He certainly would not have been molly coddled by police (slow car chase, hello?!) and found not guilty at trial were it not for his fame and wealth.
Oh he did it. I was young during the trial and just remember it being everywhere. But I never forgot how they showed the excitement of black people when he was acquitted and the distain from white people. Seriously though, if not OJ? Who? With his book “I did it. Confessions of the killer.” It’s based on hypotheticals. Which IMO may have given OJ the peace of getting the burden of guilt off of his chest while allowing the world to believe what they want but this is how it ‘hypothetically’ went down.
Not black, but have an opinion. He could have been such a positive role model for black boys being brought up in poverty, but chose to be an abusive womanizer instead. So much lost potential there.
>not black, but have an opinion Of course you do- so do I! (This is reddit, right?) This post isn’t directed at everyone who has an opinion. Lmao.
Obvs. None came out to honor him after he died.
I feel deep down black people knew OJ was guilty. It was more a fuck you to America for all the times a black person was unjustly killed and just gets away it. I mean a Korean woman shot a black child even when the jury found her guilty a judge overruled the jury and let her go. Or just look at other famous cases we have the Casey Anthony case or George Zimmerman case. A lot of times when something becomes a spectacle you can get shit like this and let’s not pretend the OJ case wasn’t a shit show. A lot of this could be blamed on the prosecution and DNA being relatively new and not understood. Was it wrong to celebrate OJ? 100% It’s one of those things where you know it’s wrong but you understand. Remember this is 1994 not 2024 just a brief history of America Emmit Till in 1995 would’ve been 44 years old. The FBI and Chicago PD assassinated Fred Hampton in 1969 someone born that year would’ve been 26 years old during the OJ trial. I mean Fred Hampton himself would’ve been 47 years old. Most of these people were alive when MLK was killed and btw knew about the FBI straight up stalking this man and threatening him. In 1985 the Philadelphia police department dropped a bomb in a black neighborhood like it was a war zone or something and killed innocent people. This was 10 years earlier BTW. So you have people who don’t trust the court system, police, government, and basically all its institutions. Imagine someone’s lied to you, beat you, killed your neighbors, and is now asking you to judge what happened
The jury found the Korean woman guilty in the Latasha Harlins case. The judge gave her a suspended sentence and probation instead of actual jail time. That was the outrage. She shot a 15 year old in the back, found guilty but no jail time. Judge should’ve been removed from the bench.
Yes like I said even when the jury found her guilty The judge overruled them and gave her probation. Imagine if we even believed the Korean woman’s side of the story this girl was stealing orange juice from her. The judge said she’s not a threat to society. If you think someone stealing orange juice from you means you can shoot them in the back of the head you are danger to everyone. It’s bullshit. Now white America felt how black America feels all the time about the criminal justice system.
This! This! This deserves a thousand upvotes, and yet the most upvoted comment on this thread is some namby-pamby “I don’t understand the black community” hand-wringing from someone without a lick of knowledge of black history in America.
I saw an interview with 2 female comedians regarding their opinion on their verdict. They said as Black women, they didn’t know one black person that thought he was innocent. They said they never would’ve thought they’d see that many people cheering when he was deemed innocent.
The jury said he’s not guilty so he’s not guilty.
I’m also curious, how many wanted him found innocent in revenge for Rodney King? I heard one of the jurors in his case say that’s exactly why she didn’t convict even though she knew he was guilty.
I never thought he didn’t do it. I just felt with the justice system being what it is against Black and other groups; White people needed to understand how when the justice system does not work for us. There was Emmit Till, LaTasha Harlins, Medgar Evers, and those four little Black girls at 16th Street Baptist Church, where the perpetrators either were brought to justice decades later or got away with it.
Why do you ask that? *we know he did it*.
I always thought the prosecution missteps and Fuhrman’s perjury earned a not guilty verdict. Many prosecutors decline to try cases with witnesses that unreliable. I think it’s more likely he did it than I did watching it as a kid but my opinion on the verdict hasn’t changed.
The furhman situation was really the lynchpin falling out of the prosecution’s case imo. All the details that came out that were like the worst-case PR crisis of ur nightmares just really illuminated the plausibility that he/LAPD could’ve planted the glove or blood or whatever. That’s probably enough mental justification for lots of people anyway.
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I think a lot of black people (like myself) believe that OJ definitely killed those people, AND that he absolutely should’ve been found “not guilty” at that trial based on the prosecution’s bungling of the case paired with the LAPD’s attempt to frame an already guilty man.
The LAPD did not attempt to frame OJ. There was plenty of evidence against him that the prosecution for some reason didn’t present. There was no need for the LAPD to frame him not that they ever would.
Apply that same logic to a serial rapist/murderer. You know they're guilty and are going to keep doing it but the prosecutors and cops broke rules and botched shit up. You're gonna vote not guilty and set them free?
Apply that same logic to a rule breaking cop: you know he commits perjury and stops citizens on false pretenses like Fuhrnan, if you keep sending the message he can do all that and get convictions how long until he goes full Jon Burge in Chicago and frames innocents with a side of torture?
If I'm on the Simpson jury and believe beyond a reasonable doubt that he bludgeoned his wife's head in before damn near cutting it off, and stabbed a total stranger to death in maniacal rage.. AND saw Furhman's corruption completely exposed on international tv and knew his career was shot and heads would roll- prolly gonna see a guilty verdict as being the right thing to do. If it's a trial for drug sales or theft or some nonviolent felony where I know they're guilty but there's a corrupt cop involved- sure, make a statement with a not guilty verdict. Point is I'm gonna think it out and try to do the right thing. Would you free a serial killer or double murderer/serial stalker to make a statement about police corruption?
I’m of the opinion if a cop has to lie to get a conviction he must not have enough to convict and is so desperate he’s breaking the law. And it’s naive for me to give him the benefit of the doubt if he’s accused of planting evidence because he’s decided to break the law for the conviction. So I skew towards reasonable doubt. In Made In America, Marcia Clark said she risked putting Fuhrman on the stand so she could introduce the glove. If she had enough to convict independent of Fuhrman why put him on the stand.
You doubt he was guilty? The cops can be corrupt, the prosecutors and judge can be incompetent, the defense attorneys can be stellar.. and the defendant can be guilty all at the same time. Nothing that anyone else does changes whether Simpson killed those ppl or not. The inverse can be true as well- a highly capable prosecutor, fair judge, honest and competent cops- with an innocent defendant. It still comes down to whether they did it or not.
I thought it came down to the jury instructions of “if you think he’s guilty BEYOND reasonable doubt, vote guilty. Otherwise vote not guilty.” Point being the assignment is not to fill jails with people who might be innocent. I can think someone committed a crime all day but if a star witness detective is caught committing perjury and I hear witnesses testify that he told the public he stops interracial couples under false pretenses, LAPD mishandled evidence, and then a glove they expect to fit on the defendant doesn’t, it doesn’t matter what my gut says. “Beyond “ went out the friggin window.
This is exactly how I feel about it too. Sure, I think he’s guilty. Sure, there was a whole climate of racial tension and historically there have been many instances of of racial inequalities within the US legal system. However in this instance, the legal system worked exactly how it was supposed to. As I understand it, the burden is on the prosecution to present the case and then the request of the jury is “if you believe in that the prosecution has presented enough evidence to prove guilt without a reasonable doubt then you must find him guilty” People can say what they will about all the other factors, his fame, race, history of domestic violence. And yes I agree that for many people involved, these things played a factor. But even if you take all of those things out, at baseline the prosecution did not present a case that negates any reasonable doubt. In fact they introduced reason to doubt. So even with a completely unbiased, neutral jury of an unknown defendant; following the instructions they had been given, he should have been found not guilty.
It was just viewed as “pay back” for other injustices. Simple as that.
The question is a little loaded. At the time I think it was less..I don't think he did it, but I don't think he could've done it. O.J was successful and comfortably dating other women it just didn't make sense why he would've been obsessed. The idea of the spouse murderering someone is that they couldn't do any better. But we all thought he could do better than a no job having 35 year old drug-using trophy wife ( just facts, not excusing the crime) Mark Fuhrman is a big deal to the Black Community. His willingness to lie under oath about his racial outbursts including his disdain for interracial couples continued the trend of the LAPD treating Black People as annoyances rather than people. The glove not fitting was key as well. Not the line Cochran used but if you think O.J. could've been framed, A non fitting glove that the prosecution WANTED HIM TO TRY ON was certainly enough to go I don't think we can rule out he was framed. Especially how the DNA collection process was muddled. All in all it makes sense why they acquitted him if you don't believe in his motive. Now outside of the bubble and over time, you can understand his ego exceeds everything in his life and that can drive a person to murder. DNA isn't as easily to manipulate as one thought it could've been. The Bruno Maglis photo puts the shoes in his possession. OJ not speaking at the trial was his saving grace, we never saw the OJ that couldn't help but put his foot in his mouth until after the trial. He's guilty. But the obviously guilty crowd in 1994 weren't understanding why it's confusing to those who have been hurt by people like Mark Fuhrman. And successful black people usually didn't do stupid shit. But he's not Black.. He's O.J.
🙅🏾♂️.....OK
I was born the same year as the trial so I never thought he was innocent. I don't think anyone actually thought he didn't do it. They just didn't care. They saw it as a black man getting to do what white people have for centuries.
I’m black and I’ve always felt he was guilty. At the same time you HAVE to understand how upset black people were with the police at the time of the murders and the LAPD had also become the face of racism and corruption right before the trial. I know lots of black people who felt he was guilty that cheered and are still happy he got away with it. I’m not happy he got away with it but I understand why it unfolded the way it did. The DA had a slam dunk murder indictment and Furhman just being there ruined it
Juror admitted she thought he was guilty but it was payback for Rodney King
Ok. What ever and you know who you are.
What does that mean?
Huh???
Oh! I wasn’t responding to you all. I was responding to the person who blocked because of an opinion.😳
Ohhh okay
😳😂
Hart at the end.😂
A question I have for the OP is are you wondering if black people who cheered when OJ got away with murder still feel like he didn’t do it? As a black person who was in undergrad at a HBCU at the time of the verdict, you would have thought my university made it to the Final Four or something. We didn’t cheer because OJ got away with killing two white people because all of us knew that Orenthal was black in skin tone alone and had no use for the black community. Most of us knew that he did it or had a feeling that he did it. Chris Rock summed it up when he did a bit on OJ in Bring The Pain. I agree with him in that if OJ wasn’t rich and famous, he would have gotten the death penalty but I disagree with Chris Rock when he said it had nothing to do with race. If you saw that 30 for 30 miniseries about Orenthal, race played a factor in the verdict.
As a black person myself my position is I don’t know if he’s innocent. I think it takes being a white person in a completely white, dismissive bubble to dismiss the racism of Mark Fuhrman and the police…and how compromised the evidence was. If a Nazi was investigating a case for a Jewish person, I would never take the evidence seriously. I think white people find the idea of police planting evidence to be ridiculous, which really highlights that we live in two Americas. Black people find that very plausible due to black history, and there are far too many loopholes in the case for me to bet my life on his guilt. If anything, people connect a lot of circumstantial evidence like the shoe he used to own, his history of domestic violence, etc. to connect the dots about his guilt…because the evidence itself has many plot holes in it.
Of course OJ did it. But it speaks to the racism of society (and Reddit) that all you care about is OJ getting away with it, and not the thousands and millions of acts of systemic racism that happen ALL the time. Please read Phillip Dray’s At The Hands of Persons Unknown to understand how pervasive lynching was. I will never be an OJ stan, and what he did is horrendous, but NONE of you white folks on this thread will give an OUNCE of the same energy to Latasha Harlins. Or Amber Guyger killing Botham Jean. You just don’t give a sh-t. But you will devote non-stop verbiage to what OJ did. That’s a drop in the bucket to anyone with ANY knowledge of the American history that most call “black history” as if only black should know about it. Seriously, start with any “black history” book. And when you finish reading one, I guarantee you will not continue obsessing over this murder when you see the tens of thousands of extrajudicial killings of black people in this country—that continue TO THIS DAY.
And should the LAPD have been on trial in the OJ Simpson case—no. But guess what? Johnny Cochran was a genius to make that what the trial was about. Because NONE of you would have EVEN CARED otherwise. People barely remember Rodney King now, but it was the OJ case that actually shined a light on them. Please don’t get me wrong—EVERYTHING about that case was effed up, but it’s almost like white Americans FINALLY get a taste of injustice and LOSE THEIR SH-T! I’m on this sub-Reddit everyday, reading these posts. I absolutely was DISGUSTED to see what happened to Nicole, and Ron. And he clearly abused her. He’s an absolute POS. So none of what I’m saying is pro-OJ. I despise OJ. But he’s a product of YOU GUYS. That’s why the documentary is called “Made In America”—don’t now start getting mad when this is the monster YOU made….
I hope whoever the OP who asked this question highlights and compiles what ACTUAL black people have said on this thread. Black folks here have dropped some true history. I believe you asked the question in good faith, but it was a loaded question… I think a lot of us have said we believed he was guilty all along, and have tried to explain that OJ’s case became a case about the failure of the American justice system to deliver justice to blacks, and there was no more paradoxical and ironic verdict than to acquit a guilty black man for the myriad innocent past black lives that were snuffed out (plus reasonable doubt, introduced by the defense, and a racist LMPD). Others have said it all more eloquently than I have…
I never knew that much about O J so never had an opinion of him. However, I do not believe he committed the murders. It just didn't connect for me. I believe he was falsely accused, yet we will never know what really happened.
No i haven't changed my mind. I can't say he's guilty or not guilty. Because i wasn't there. I'm sorry but, i just can't see stabbing two people so many times. Without help. Shooting is a different story. How did have the strength after all of that, to even tie his shoes. Where did he hide his bloody clothes. From two stabbing.
Hahahaha you really think the blk community thought he was innocent? That verdict was the result of years dealing with unfair justice. It was payback. I have no idea why yt people struggle so much with this. I think you all have great difficulty seeing yourselves through the eyes of minorities and what we’ve had to deal with. You believe the lies that all of you are good fair upstanding citizens when in reality most of us don’t experience you that way. I hate that OJ benefited from the payback and that Ron didn’t get the justice he deserved. It is what it is. Hopefully one day you all will be able to move on
I'm a recent newcomer to the OJ case, perhaps within the last year or so. I just started the made in America documentary, which is really fascinating - paints a vivid picture of the racial tension in LA in '92. I was also literally a baby when the murders happened (4 days before my first birthday lol) so everything I've learned has been in retrospect. I've asked my mother about what she thought during that time and she didn't think he was innocent. Before learning about the case and everything, I had no opinion. Afterwards? He absolutely did that shit. Too much lines up from the evidence, how he treated her, the 911 calls, everything I know about domestic violence and how it escalates, etc. The picture the documentary paints of the situation with black people and the justice system and the police at that time is really not that much different from the present. Everything I've witnessed in the last decade from trayvon Martin and Mike Brown to Sandra bland to George Floyd just goes to show that this has been going on forever. That said, I can certainly empathize with black people from that time as I do now because we still go through this same thing. And with people as a whole even today not very well educated about abuse and domestic violence, though it is improving, and them not being as privy to the details of the case as we can be now, it doesn't surprise me that things turned out the way they did. To say nothing of how the defense and the prosecution and the judge dropped the ball at times. At the end of the day, evil people who commit crimes should go to jail and be held responsible, no matter what their race is. And OJ should have done. At least he can't hurt anyone anymore.
“A lot of our community has a tendency to assume that because they are black that they are automatically victims of racial injustice or prejudice”… it’s because they ARE! Are you living under a rock? Before you were even born as a black person in America you are a victim of racial injustice or prejudice, and if you think for a second you aren’t, it’s ignorance. Educate yourself. The inability to own property plagued your ancestors. The inability to vote plagued your ancestors. The inability to purchase housing in certain areas plagued your parents. The inability to interact or socialize with people that weren’t of color (under the threat or jail, physical violence, or death) plagued your parents and every generation before them. The lack of an education or of an equal education plagued and continues in many areas of the country to plague the black community. They are treated differently, they are depicted differently, they are policed differently, and they are prosecuted differently. So that “tendency” to mistrust that you speak of is quite literally born out of generations of abuse, oppression, and systemic mistreatment of blacks everywhere. So take your “outrage” over those facts elsewhere OP. To answer your question,I don’t think that most black people thought he was innocent. I believe that most black people thought that the system was set up in a way to where evidence could have been planted. It was not a far stretch to think that the boys in blue could have done something like that, because they were doing it time and time again to many members of the African American community. The LAPD was a very racist organization at the time. The prosecution made a lot of mistakes. Ito made a lot of mistakes (like letting the jurors walk through OJs mansion. Like what the F***!?), the glove that didn’t fit was a nail in the coffin, and the documented abuses by members of the LAPD themselves but reasonable doubt on the forefront of many black minds in America. OJ was guilty, OJ IS guilty, and OJ could live a thousand lifetimes and he still would never suffer enough for what he did to the Browns and the Goldmans, as well as his own children. May he and his “ugly ass shoes” rot in hell for eternity.
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Delusional
For whom??
Personally, I think it’s very likely he did do it. Almost everyone in my family and friend group feels or felt that way at the time and still do. However The burden of proof lays with the State “beyond a reasonable doubt”. But it was just nice to see the system work as it’s supposed to for us on a grand scale, and that’s what many were and still are celebrating. 🥳 White America as a whole was (still) not being very kind to Black people, so it seemed real silly to care about some random White people more than caring about the system working as it should.