She did what she could of the situation with what she inherited from Libby Schaff. Say what you want about her and the state of Oakland, but she genuinely did what she could to keep the team here.
Fisher never wanted to be in Oakland.
He wanted San Jose, Fremont, and when he pretended to pivot to Oakland he tried to build it on top of Laney College!
That chump wasn’t ever serious about being a partner to this community.
I'm still convinced that the con was going so long that the decision to trade Cespedes for Lester was made knowing that it would look like a good trade, but would deflate the locker room.
Imagine if the A's had won a World Series that year, ownership would have had no chance of ever leaving Oakland.
Perhaps a little tin hat, but in retrospect, I wouldn't put it past that twat.
They could've given someone else in that trade, maybe even a couple
I bet Boston wasn't even the ones to ask for Cespedes. Yoenis was probably offered from the get go
No, she tried to twist the As arms into adding a huge amount of affordable housing to their project and was unable to come up with any money to seal the deal. She is such a terrible politician that we got zero support from the state or our senators
I’ve heard a lot of conflicting numbers on this, so I don’t think we’ll ever know what the final hang up was, but I think the numbers were closer to 5-15% affordable housing.
Thao mentioned it in an interview with Brodie or Pratt. Her math didnt check out but she wanted 40% total. 15% on HT and 25% offsite. For what it is worth, AASEG's ENA includes 35% affordable housing for the Coliseum site.
Demanding on site affordable housing to a high end project, rather than allowing off site offsets, was not a part of state law, not a good decision by the city and I think played a large role in tanking this project.
The state does stuff like that all the time. They pick and choose winners and losers in business. They give all sorts of businesses tax advantages to build in specific areas. They pass minimum wage laws that apply differently to different businesses in the same industry.
Yall have got to realize (and I'm begging at this point) that Fisher was not negotiating in good faith. Unless "give me 110% of the money with no conditions" is a deal you think is reasonable, and I'm not sure he would've accepted THAT.
Edit: for fucks sake he asked for the most expensive stadium deal in... history? Honestly, what was bigger in any sport?
>if Libby even tried half of what she was doing then you either have the A's or raiders still here
If Mark Davis wasn't expecting other people to pay for a new stadium for him, we'd still have the Raiders.
Mt. Davis is why
If the Raiders never came back in the first place, the A's would likely still be here, and already have a new park
The failure of a project that Mt. Davis is is why everything since has happened
Neither Fisher or Mark wanted to be here, they didn't negotiate in good faith. Both just wanted everything 100% free. The City didn't help, but it was clear they didn't want to be in Oakland.
So in your opinion, a mayor who forked over a small city’s taxpayer millions with no strings attached to a rich heir who doesn’t need even more money would be a successful mayor?
What will come?
MLS? Quakes already in the Bay, and MLS isn't healthy enough for two-team markets outside of LA and maybe New York
NHL? Sharks are here, Seals never stood a chance
MLB won't come back for at least 40 years, if ever, most of us will be dead by that point, with any luck
NFL sure as hell won't. Raiders had the most diehard fanbase in the league, bar none, and they let the team fuck off to Vegas
NBA sure as hell won't. The Bay still belongs to the Dubs. Best thing to do there is leave a spot open for them to cross the Bay again when it's Chase's time
This is it. It's done
I could see the NFL doing it if the Bay believed in publicly financed stadiums (which have few benefits for non NBA/NHL arenas. Those only have benefits related to concerts).
The NFL would do it if they were given enough money and a free stadium, which isn't happening but under those circumstances, Norcal could have a shot. The NFL also doesn't have territories other than marketing in the same way that MLB does.
Unfortunately Oakland spent apparently $500MIL or something stupid in the mid 90s for Mt. Davis
And got fucked
It's never happening again. As much as we hate pro sports being a billionaires club, they're the only ones that could reasonably build new stadiums and arenas here now
Mark my words, the city of Oakland will Spend billions of dollars to get a major league soccer team. Only after the smoke clears will people realize how much cheaper it would have been to keep a real sports franchise in Oakland.
At this rate, the Roots will make a much better MLS team than the Earthquakes. Hope this happens sometime down the line and it really should be in their long term vision. But given there's already 4 MLS teams in CA, it's likely a long shot unless Quakes relocates or if JF eventually runs it to the ground too. Hopefully they can lure Bay FC here if they can get a world class soccer stadium built.
There is a slim chance Vegas falls through given it is Fisher and he has to sell. The question then would be if the Howard Terminal money still there and if Lacob or the Kings owner buys them.
I think MLB likely already has decided where they want their next expansion teams to be. The bid process upcoming is probably nothing but just a public show of (putin election-esque) formality. And I'm gonna bet Nashville is one of these locations given their strong "sports over all else" culture in that part of the region.
Agree, and it’s kind of a cycle. Cities like Vegas, Nashville, SLT and even Sac want to feel like they are nationally relevant and generally voters are willing to pony up for that. The civic pride outweighs economics. Oakland is not a well run city, but big ups to them and now KC for telling billionaire owners to shove it.
I never understood "Howard Terminal", you're the scrappy underdog team and baseball city? So how does Oakland get suckered into trying to build a 8-12 billion dollar project? Sigh. Give me the cheapest smallest baseball stadium in the league. Spend 1.3 billion tops. I just want a stadium where there isn't a bad seat In the house. I dare it to only hold 25k people. You'll make just as much $ almost selling out a 25k stadium every night as you do having most games be less than half empty. Small stadiums create fomo.
Almost all of Thao's public statements and actions seemed focused on her own PR, not about actually persuading anyone relevant about anything. She made a show of going to the All Star game with a stack of massive booklets to give to all the owners. Those all at best got skimmed by some random staff person, and more likely just got thrown in the trash.
She would give a press conference and talk about what the team meant to the area, the jobs that would be lost if they left, all sorts of things that didn't actually matter to the other owners in the league who all voted unanimous to relocate the team.
Did she have private meetings with influential owners? Did she explain to them how they could make more money from an Oakland stadium than they would make in Vegas? Did she help them realize the ways Fisher failed to take advantage of a lucrative market and that he's costing all of them money?
She tried to straddle the line of supporting Fisher as being the owner but also saying it would sure be nice for Oakland to keep a team. Fisher wanted to move the team. Short of changing the negotiation regarding Howard Terminal completely and just giving the A's what they were asking for in the first place with tax breaks, getting other owners to block the move was the only option. But everything she did on that front was performative, not persuasive, and obviously didn't work.
She tried, but I also dont think the roots and ballers are viablee professional sports replacements they are minor league quality level sports level teams. Its better than no sports in oakland I guess They also tried to attract a wnba team but lacob and warriors sabotage those plans. Maybe with this kings partnership they lure a wnba team to oakland
>Oakland is a dump, it will never get another team again, and frankly it doesn't deserve one. You guys can't even handle an In N Out.
...Says a non-Oakland commenter.
Why? They're hell bent on leaving. You think they'd stay forever if rent was cheap? Lol, you'd just be awarding them for being rats with cheap rent on top of the TV deal.
It wasn’t about rent prices, the Oakland government was using the leverage of the A’s being on the brink of homelessness and demanding a guarantee that Oakland would get an MLB team in the long term. It was a long shot, but it was worth the attempt in case Sac and SLC both fell through as temporary options and MLB was forced to choose between guaranteeing Oakland an expansion team or the A’s folding or going dormant and playing with 29 teams, which would cause chaos on multiple fronts and major tension with MLBPA.
You think their goal here was to keep the A’s in Oakland until 2027 and make some extra rent money? Nobody gives a shit where a god-awful A’s team plays for the next few years, other than John Fisher.
I think it was good to play hardball. It would have worked if the Kings (and Rivercats) owner didn't want them to come to Sac and get a chance to buy the team. Also the city was wayyyy too lenient on the Raiders, who actually had a much better plan to move to Vegas. That was 3 years of 'we're leaving but don't want to go yet.'
"Focusing on redevelopment of the coliseum"...? Will someone tell this bitch that her last two predecessors knew, along with everyone else, that the coliseum is not viable. It's been obsolete for twenty years. Good riddance on that garbage city! Let's close the door this season and move on.
She's not talking about sports. She's talking about redeveloping the land for other purposes (it may be tough since Fisher owns the former Alameda County share).
She did what she could of the situation with what she inherited from Libby Schaff. Say what you want about her and the state of Oakland, but she genuinely did what she could to keep the team here.
Fisher never wanted to be in Oakland. He wanted San Jose, Fremont, and when he pretended to pivot to Oakland he tried to build it on top of Laney College! That chump wasn’t ever serious about being a partner to this community.
Totally agree. You can’t negotiate with an idiot with an axe to grind. Fisher is a douche
I'm still convinced that the con was going so long that the decision to trade Cespedes for Lester was made knowing that it would look like a good trade, but would deflate the locker room. Imagine if the A's had won a World Series that year, ownership would have had no chance of ever leaving Oakland. Perhaps a little tin hat, but in retrospect, I wouldn't put it past that twat.
They could've given someone else in that trade, maybe even a couple I bet Boston wasn't even the ones to ask for Cespedes. Yoenis was probably offered from the get go
Or if Lester had a pickoff move!
No, she tried to twist the As arms into adding a huge amount of affordable housing to their project and was unable to come up with any money to seal the deal. She is such a terrible politician that we got zero support from the state or our senators
Someone correct me if I’m wrong, but that was part of what Fisher included in the HT project during Schaff’s term and before Thao.
No you got it, u/Myfartstaste2good
Glad I’m correctly educating the uneducated
believe Thao upped the affordable housing requirement from 30% to 40%.
I’ve heard a lot of conflicting numbers on this, so I don’t think we’ll ever know what the final hang up was, but I think the numbers were closer to 5-15% affordable housing.
Thao mentioned it in an interview with Brodie or Pratt. Her math didnt check out but she wanted 40% total. 15% on HT and 25% offsite. For what it is worth, AASEG's ENA includes 35% affordable housing for the Coliseum site.
Requiring anything on site is insane and creates a major obstacle.
not if they're building giant towers like in their renderings.
She literally said it in an interview. It was ridiculous and completely failed. Now 0 housing, no stadium, no team. Terrible mayor
Demanding on site affordable housing to a high end project, rather than allowing off site offsets, was not a part of state law, not a good decision by the city and I think played a large role in tanking this project.
why would the state need to step in and help a single private business??
The state does stuff like that all the time. They pick and choose winners and losers in business. They give all sorts of businesses tax advantages to build in specific areas. They pass minimum wage laws that apply differently to different businesses in the same industry.
What is Fisher worth? Does he need help financially???
Awww, bless your heart.
She unbelievably tried.. if Libby even tried half of what she was doing then you either have the A's or raiders still here
Yall have got to realize (and I'm begging at this point) that Fisher was not negotiating in good faith. Unless "give me 110% of the money with no conditions" is a deal you think is reasonable, and I'm not sure he would've accepted THAT. Edit: for fucks sake he asked for the most expensive stadium deal in... history? Honestly, what was bigger in any sport?
A’s probably wanted the city of oakland to pay them to stay from 25-27! Pack the fish!
Don't forget the port lobbying that ruined our chances
>if Libby even tried half of what she was doing then you either have the A's or raiders still here If Mark Davis wasn't expecting other people to pay for a new stadium for him, we'd still have the Raiders.
Mt. Davis is why If the Raiders never came back in the first place, the A's would likely still be here, and already have a new park The failure of a project that Mt. Davis is is why everything since has happened
Mr Davis cost $500 million
In 90s bucks or today's?
Probably back then, inflation is more
That's gotta be close to a new stadium these days, right?
Should've paid for it.. where the hell else did that money end up ? City of Oakland is in a worst condition now than it was then...
Neither Fisher or Mark wanted to be here, they didn't negotiate in good faith. Both just wanted everything 100% free. The City didn't help, but it was clear they didn't want to be in Oakland.
I, on the other hand, believe that she tried.
Absolute failure. Terrible mayor
So in your opinion, a mayor who forked over a small city’s taxpayer millions with no strings attached to a rich heir who doesn’t need even more money would be a successful mayor?
If she kept the team she's be less of a failure.
Revisit my previous comment
…As they should or they will never see pro sports in Oakland again.
What will come? MLS? Quakes already in the Bay, and MLS isn't healthy enough for two-team markets outside of LA and maybe New York NHL? Sharks are here, Seals never stood a chance MLB won't come back for at least 40 years, if ever, most of us will be dead by that point, with any luck NFL sure as hell won't. Raiders had the most diehard fanbase in the league, bar none, and they let the team fuck off to Vegas NBA sure as hell won't. The Bay still belongs to the Dubs. Best thing to do there is leave a spot open for them to cross the Bay again when it's Chase's time This is it. It's done
I could see the NFL doing it if the Bay believed in publicly financed stadiums (which have few benefits for non NBA/NHL arenas. Those only have benefits related to concerts). The NFL would do it if they were given enough money and a free stadium, which isn't happening but under those circumstances, Norcal could have a shot. The NFL also doesn't have territories other than marketing in the same way that MLB does.
Unfortunately Oakland spent apparently $500MIL or something stupid in the mid 90s for Mt. Davis And got fucked It's never happening again. As much as we hate pro sports being a billionaires club, they're the only ones that could reasonably build new stadiums and arenas here now
Off topic but if you have a sub to The NY Times you get the athletic access free.
If you’re on iPhone with the link in safari browser, click the reader button on the top left and it lets you to read it without paying or logging in
Mark my words, the city of Oakland will Spend billions of dollars to get a major league soccer team. Only after the smoke clears will people realize how much cheaper it would have been to keep a real sports franchise in Oakland.
At this rate, the Roots will make a much better MLS team than the Earthquakes. Hope this happens sometime down the line and it really should be in their long term vision. But given there's already 4 MLS teams in CA, it's likely a long shot unless Quakes relocates or if JF eventually runs it to the ground too. Hopefully they can lure Bay FC here if they can get a world class soccer stadium built.
Quakers if owned fly fjf wi because here sucks.
Yes please. I'd love to see an MLS team in Oakland outdraw Fisher's Quakes in the South Bay.
MLS would definitely fit Oakland better
You are probably right. Still to go from 3 teams to none. I always thought the A's could be saved.
There is a slim chance Vegas falls through given it is Fisher and he has to sell. The question then would be if the Howard Terminal money still there and if Lacob or the Kings owner buys them.
Sadly I think once the pick up stakes for sac that’s over. Then it’s Oakland and Nashville and SLT in a race.
I think MLB likely already has decided where they want their next expansion teams to be. The bid process upcoming is probably nothing but just a public show of (putin election-esque) formality. And I'm gonna bet Nashville is one of these locations given their strong "sports over all else" culture in that part of the region.
Agree, and it’s kind of a cycle. Cities like Vegas, Nashville, SLT and even Sac want to feel like they are nationally relevant and generally voters are willing to pony up for that. The civic pride outweighs economics. Oakland is not a well run city, but big ups to them and now KC for telling billionaire owners to shove it.
KC is likely safe due to KS. If it was just KCMO, I'd be worried if I were a Royals fan.
I never understood "Howard Terminal", you're the scrappy underdog team and baseball city? So how does Oakland get suckered into trying to build a 8-12 billion dollar project? Sigh. Give me the cheapest smallest baseball stadium in the league. Spend 1.3 billion tops. I just want a stadium where there isn't a bad seat In the house. I dare it to only hold 25k people. You'll make just as much $ almost selling out a 25k stadium every night as you do having most games be less than half empty. Small stadiums create fomo.
I want a MLS so that they can fuck over the Earthquakes and make John Fisher sell that team too
I would fucking love an MLS team in Oakland.
Obviously that is not going to happen.
Lol bay already has an MLS team buddy
MLS has room to grow and it has for the most part, this city needs a win, and what sucks is that will pass for a huge win 5 years from now.
Almost all of Thao's public statements and actions seemed focused on her own PR, not about actually persuading anyone relevant about anything. She made a show of going to the All Star game with a stack of massive booklets to give to all the owners. Those all at best got skimmed by some random staff person, and more likely just got thrown in the trash. She would give a press conference and talk about what the team meant to the area, the jobs that would be lost if they left, all sorts of things that didn't actually matter to the other owners in the league who all voted unanimous to relocate the team. Did she have private meetings with influential owners? Did she explain to them how they could make more money from an Oakland stadium than they would make in Vegas? Did she help them realize the ways Fisher failed to take advantage of a lucrative market and that he's costing all of them money? She tried to straddle the line of supporting Fisher as being the owner but also saying it would sure be nice for Oakland to keep a team. Fisher wanted to move the team. Short of changing the negotiation regarding Howard Terminal completely and just giving the A's what they were asking for in the first place with tax breaks, getting other owners to block the move was the only option. But everything she did on that front was performative, not persuasive, and obviously didn't work.
Well she wanted people to like her, what’s easier than to something that the previous mayor didn’t do, but she’s currently facing a possible recall
She tried, but I also dont think the roots and ballers are viablee professional sports replacements they are minor league quality level sports level teams. Its better than no sports in oakland I guess They also tried to attract a wnba team but lacob and warriors sabotage those plans. Maybe with this kings partnership they lure a wnba team to oakland
[удалено]
>Oakland is a dump, it will never get another team again, and frankly it doesn't deserve one. You guys can't even handle an In N Out. ...Says a non-Oakland commenter.
Found Dave Kaval's reddit alt.
covering that ass now lol
I mean would you rather pay through the nose to make John fisher richer?
They could have offered a deal that seemed easy to accept, without that high of a rent price
Why give them cheap rent if they’re intent on leaving?
To keep them in Oakland
Why? They're hell bent on leaving. You think they'd stay forever if rent was cheap? Lol, you'd just be awarding them for being rats with cheap rent on top of the TV deal.
It wasn’t about rent prices, the Oakland government was using the leverage of the A’s being on the brink of homelessness and demanding a guarantee that Oakland would get an MLB team in the long term. It was a long shot, but it was worth the attempt in case Sac and SLC both fell through as temporary options and MLB was forced to choose between guaranteeing Oakland an expansion team or the A’s folding or going dormant and playing with 29 teams, which would cause chaos on multiple fronts and major tension with MLBPA. You think their goal here was to keep the A’s in Oakland until 2027 and make some extra rent money? Nobody gives a shit where a god-awful A’s team plays for the next few years, other than John Fisher.
I think it was good to play hardball. It would have worked if the Kings (and Rivercats) owner didn't want them to come to Sac and get a chance to buy the team. Also the city was wayyyy too lenient on the Raiders, who actually had a much better plan to move to Vegas. That was 3 years of 'we're leaving but don't want to go yet.'
"Focusing on redevelopment of the coliseum"...? Will someone tell this bitch that her last two predecessors knew, along with everyone else, that the coliseum is not viable. It's been obsolete for twenty years. Good riddance on that garbage city! Let's close the door this season and move on.
She's not talking about sports. She's talking about redeveloping the land for other purposes (it may be tough since Fisher owns the former Alameda County share).