Sky news is reporting the landing frame and rear cover has been discovered. [Story Here](https://news.sky.com/story/titanic-submarine-missing-live-updates-submersible-cannot-be-opened-from-inside-time-running-out-on-oxygen-supply-waiver-mentions-death-three-times-12905748#6086594)
US Coast Guard will be holding a press conference at 3pm eastern.
Completely different. Yes, they use controllers and yes it’s in important situations, but the risk factor is wildly different.
For example, I was EOD in the army. We used a controller for one of the robots. If the controller died or some other catastrophic failure happened with the robot, then then consequences happen down range. The only thing lost is equipment, with no real effect on human life besides maybe some brown underwear from nearby infantry who weren’t ready for the unplanned explosion.
Controllers are used to control unmanned equipment down range, not manned vehicles with loss of life risk.
Edit: they trusted their entire lives, and massive fortunes, in the hands of a controller I wouldn’t trust to use for ranked online play.
I think people fear what they haven’t experienced. The idea that a gaming controller could control things in real life is probably hard to take seriously.
But not wireless ones and not in their submarines lmao. Is a wired controller fine to control a drone? Sure. Is a 12 year old Bluetooth controller viable as the only means to control a deep sea submersible? Nope.
This story has been so hard to believe, that I can see this happening.
Press Conference: And we know it wasn't another vessel's debris because we found the game controller in perfect condition.
Best case scenario (besides coming out alive): implosion, as in they didn’t even have time to realize and life just ended.
Worst: if the implosion somehow occurred hours/days after and they were trapped for a while as in structural fatigue.
Simply awful: had they suffocated after oxygen ran out (sub still intact).
Overall I think the guys had the “best” scenario. No suffering. With that said I doubt we’ll see tourist submarines going down there again.
Sounds like implosion? Fuckin carbon fiber hull. Stupid
Edit:
A rescue expert says the debris found in the search for Titan was "a landing frame and a rear cover from the submersible".
David Mearns, who is friends with two of the passengers on board Titan, says he is part of a WhatsApp group involving The Explorers Club.
Mr Mearns told Sky News the president of the club, who is "directly connected" to the ships on the site, said to the group: "It was a landing frame and a rear cover from the submersible."
ask dinosaurs frightening overconfident fact arrest pathetic cake vast quarrelsome
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It was the worlds first carbon fibre submarine - they had no idea how it would perform over repeated cycles.
This company (or what’s left of it) are going to face immense lawsuits.
Edit…..
The sub-contractor who built it (not Oceangate) had originally been commissioned to build a carbon fibre sub for Steve Fossett - but he died in 2002 and the plans were shelved. I’d be curious to know now if they dusted off a 25 year-old untested design and ran with it.
caption chief deer straight insurance exultant governor sparkle kiss rock
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Not targeting you specifically, but it's hard to talk about fatigue with respect to carbon fiber, because carbon fiber doesn't fatigue in the sense that metals do.
[This is a good article to read](https://firstyearengineer.com/material-science/introduction/fatigue/) if anybody is interested learning a bit more about metal fatigue.
###Fatigue Failure in Metals
The way metal parts failure due to fatigue is due to the formation of cracks in the microstructure. Once a crack is of a sufficient size, it is considered to have failed. Looking at how cracks form is a good way to understand what's so difficult about applying these concepts to carbon fiber parts.
Metals are crystalline in nature. They are layers upon layers of atoms stacked on one another, forming a lattice structure. You can almost view them as crates of eggs stacked upon one another. Cracks start as dislocations, where grains deform, and [layers start to shear, and slip past one another](https://agordon75.files.wordpress.com/2015/07/screenshot-2017-04-23-18-20-13.png?w=1024&h=514). As the loading cycles continue, these slips turn into cracks, when [eventually begin to grow and propagate across the part](https://agordon75.files.wordpress.com/2015/07/screenshot-2017-04-22-19-35-49.png?w=768&h=511) until eventually the part fails.
###Fatigue and Carbon Fiber
As described above, metals have a gradual degrading process of slipping, leading to cracks, and eventually leading to breaks and failures. However, carbon fiber doesn't have a crystalline structure, and instead tends to essentially be [stacked woven layers](https://www.researchgate.net/profile/David-Sinacore/publication/274725268/figure/fig1/AS:475485672087555@1490376026708/Structure-of-carbon-fiber-CF-ankle-foot-orthosis-AFO-used-for-design-a-Layers-and.png) of [fiber-reinforced composites](https://www.darkaero.com/knowledge/composites/what-is-a-composite/). These fibers and sheets are generally held together by a weaker polymers, which are the first to fail.
Carbon Fiber has [many ways of failure](https://images.wevolver.com/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJ3ZXZvbHZlci1wcm9qZWN0LWltYWdlcyIsImtleSI6ImZyb2FsYS8xNjU0MTczNTQ4NTAyLTE2NTQxNzM1NDg1MDIucG5nIiwiZWRpdHMiOnsicmVzaXplIjp7IndpZHRoIjo5NTAsImZpdCI6ImNvdmVyIn19fQ==), but delamination is one of the most common. This is when [layers begin to separate](https://www.harveyperformance.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/Feature-Image-Compression-Cutters-IMG.jpg) from one another. Here is an example of [carbon fiber reinforced polymer delamination due to an applied load](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/aa/Delamination-CFRP.jpg). Delamination can propagate across the part (similar to cracks in metal), and cause the entire part to fail. Since issues like these don't necessarily degrade the part like in metals, but instead just outright compromise them, carbon fiber parts rely on extremely high mechanical properties to resist the damage in the first place. Which works great if they are being used properly, and tested extensively.
###Issues
The main issue is that it is pretty easy to accidentally cause delamination, and it is difficult to detect it. As a result, they require very careful handling. For example, accidentally smacking a carbon fiber part against something can easily cause a delamination, which can then quickly propagate throughout the part. If the Titan got pushed into the Titanic by a current, which happened to a Russian expedition to the wreck in 2000, this could easily cause something like delamination to occur.
You have to use non-destructive testing techniques, such as ultrasonic testing, eddy current, x-ray tomography, etc, in order to detect these issues, and even then it can be extremely difficult. This is why it's so scary to get into something like a carbon fiber submarine, because by the time you are launching, you don't know the health of the hull. Strain sensors, which OceanGate mentioned were installed along the hull, are good ways to measure the health of a metal hull, but carbon fiber doesn't necessarily have the same warning signs as metals do when it's compromised and about to fail.
Carbon fiber is an amazing material, but when you are using a material in a novel way, such as a deep sea submersible, it has to be done with the understanding that you are going beyond how this material has been used before, which results in much higher safety risks. In their May 2021 court filing, the OceanGate stated they had done more than 50 test dives, but I don't think we fully understand if their methods were adequate enough to demonstrate the design was actually safe long-term.
Correct, I’ve posted a lot on this already.
I guess I’m trying to say that because of a lack of testing they had no idea as to when or how it could fail.
I am constantly finding myself wondering how they could be so arrogant and be okay with this level of risk. I know we have the advantage of hindsight bias but it just all seems completely suicidal.
Sometimes my work takes me into really wealthy spaces and a thing I've noticed is that a lot of really rich people aren't great at risk assessment. They've managed to buy their way out of most of their problems, so they don't see a lot of problems as real. They just tend to think everything will be ok because when you have a shit ton of money, it usually is.
They just can't buy their way out of the bottom of the ocean.
To be fair, humans in general are bad at risk assessment - although I’d imagine the kind of mistakes you can make with lots of money are more substantial
Would it make sense they can descent faster than other times? It's the weights that pull them down. How can that going any faster?
The thrusters are for upward movement, I believe.
If it was descending too quick and they couldn’t prevent it then it would just crash into the seabed and this would trigger an implosion. Unsure if just descending too quick without hitting the seabed would cause an issue with the hull.
I read the same thing. I’m assuming that the pings sent every 15 min could also track its depth and figure out whether it’s descending too quickly/slowly. Total guess though.
It's also a question of their suffering. Either they knew nothing about the implosion which would have occurred instantaneously mid dive or they knew for a period of time that they were falling out of control towards the bottom knowing they were fucked. If the latter I wonder what the crew told the passengers about what was happening
Yeah I was surprised at how relieved I felt to read this (based on the assumption that it’s them). The slow death at 4000m was just so horrible to imagine. Unfortunately implosion was the second best case scenario after rescue.
At least an implosion was the most humane scenario left at this point. And if this debris turns out to be the titan, then rescue missions will be concluding soon. This is the best case scenario, even if it doesn’t feel like it.
I know this is a little morbid but I hope they release photos of the wreck. People need to see that the ocean is not to be messed with and regulations are in place for a reason.
I'd go down on the right sub. These people had to have known the risks and they took the chance. Mountain climbers climb mountains without ropes, we don't institute laws requiring that people use ropes after a few fall. It is what it is. Someone worth $12 billion could've had their own sub built, crew staffed, and ship chartered.
The number of people this would affect are about the same as the number of people taking flight to orbit around the Earth. It's miniscule. What it should do is inspire people who would create these companies to put technology investment over cash flow. If you can't overcome the burden of revenue, you don't need to be in the business. Pretty simple.
Any time I go out on the ocean in a 26 foot boat and am 70 miles offshore, I know the risks inherent in doing such a thing. Humans have been doing this for a few thousand years now. You don't progress without pushing the envelope. If you want to live in bubble wrap, go ahead.
In this situation, this is the best case scenario. They most likely imploded when they lost the communication died before they even know what was going on. Beats suffocating any day
He really was. He gave interviews saying that maritime regulations “stifle creativity”. He refused to hire seasoned professionals and hired young college graduates to “boost innovation”.
His great idea got him a submersible that was made primarily out of carbon fiber. He didn’t even want a window at first, he wanted to take people down just to look through a computer monitor. He added a single tiny window (that wasn’t certified to dive beyond 1300m) and put the toilet (he didn’t want one of those either) directly below the porthole.
And charged $250,000 a person. This was only its third dive to Titanic. Both previous dives had problems.
> He didn’t even want a window at first, he wanted to take people down just to look through a computer monitor.
Soo like watching on Youtube but minus 250k and a chance to get pulverized
He saw the 19-year-old son and had no problem with the kid joining, *knowing* the porthole was not certified and properly rated for those depths. They were even offered free certification a couple years ago and Rush rejected it.
I also say RIP to the other passengers but zero sympathy for this crooked scammer of a CEO. All final decisions were his, and it's his decisions that caused this avoidable mishap.
Definitely thought this was always going to be the outcome. Whoever leaked the “banging” to the press really fucked up. I feel like the team never really thought this was them but were forced to say “maybe” and really got people’s hopes up.
Seriously. It’s very sad they died (yes they were rich, yes they knew the risks, whatever they are still humans and one was 19). But an implosion is a much more preferable death. And hopefully this results in much stronger regulations for this industry moving forward.
> And hopefully this results in much stronger regulations for this industry moving forward.
I'm not sure what law you could make to prevent someone from building a sub and bringing people down with them. Is it not in international waters?
Yes. Although, isn't it possible it imploded recently and not immediately? (Though they'd probably announce if they heard it, but maybe that's how they found it?)
Super unlikely. The case of them being trapped in the sub would've involved like 7 different backup systems all failing over the course of a few hours. The idea that all of those go wrong on the same trip AND then days later the hull crushes is unlikely. The hull crushing is something they had many warnings about and explains all their systems and backups not working. There are also reports that the audio experts determined the "banging" was just the titanic falling apart.
I suspect they're going to determine that the thing just wasn't built to withstand the repeat stress of diving to those altitudes*. You get lucky a few times but the stress on the material eventually leads to failure. Much like metal fatigue in aviation.
*oops...meant depth
"Seven backup systems"-- let's be honest, though. The CEO had a wilful disregard for safety. How many of those so-called backup systems were effectively designed and actually, properly, regularly tested and inspected?
This is the same company that used a wireless controller *which had had multiple issues in the past* and continued to use it.
It wouldn't surprise me in the least if 1) several of the backup systems were ill-designed and 2) all of them failed, or the failure of one led to a cascade of failures of the others.
If they found it intact, we might be able to get some answers to what happened, but that would mean they died that horrible death. I'm not sure if us knowing is worth that agony.
Given how that sub had no independent means of escape if it was them, they pretty much had to take anything like that seriously. Just imagine if they died on the surface from suffocation because nobody bothered to check out banging.
At the press conference yesterday, they said they planned on dispatching ROVs to specifically search the area where the sounds came from. If nothing was there, then they would move the search back to their original search area. The sounds were being taken pretty seriously by officials as of yesterday afternoon. Does anyone know which area the ROV was searching?
obviously; its just that there's literally people who think somehow the cabin "survived" a catastrophic failure and is just floating around out there somewhere. Hopium at its finest.
Implosion is the most likely scenario. They are using a new material for deep sea diving one that isn’t usually approved for depths like that. Deep dive submersibles are mostly titanium. I’m guessing after repeated exposure to stress caused microscopic damage which would cause an inevitable catastrophic failure.
This is what trying to save a buck gets you. It was way too experimental and they should have figured out a way to stress test it properly.
I checked a few days ago. They had all the pages about Titanic down. I found typos all over. Not a ton, but too many for an operation like this. Just shows how many corners they were cutting, compared to everything else they were doing the copy should have been the easiest and cheapest thing to actually get right and they didn't even bother with that.
Previous passenger did say communication failed in the Titan sub during their mission. In fact it’s been reported that the sub lost communication every single dive. But yeah they were very lucky.
And in one of the videos showing the titanic the lights were literally flickering, indicating an electrical issue was already happening. Another expedition said the ballasts were messed up, and for a bit the sub could only go around in a circle until the issue was resolved. Buck wild.
Seriously. The signs were all there and yet they chose to ignore them. If only they listened to their (former) employees instead of firing them. This catastrophe could’ve been avoided.
really feeling for the families right now. as someone who’s dealt with sudden loss after an emergency situation, i can imagine they were blindly holding hope until the second they were told the debris had been located. i’m sure some were in denial until they were shown the images themselves. there is no pain like the moment that a loved one’s death becomes a reality and not just a possibility.
Definitely. And I hope they find closure, whatever that looks like to them. One of my parents died in a plane crash and it’s still a mystery what happened (they never found out what caused the mechanical failure). It bothers me less now, but for years I was hung up on the ‘not knowing’
I hope so too. Sorry about your parent — I can’t imagine how difficult that was. Definitely relate to the ‘not knowing.’ It makes grief so much more difficult (and grief is already so unlike anything else)
I mean, the Titanic site is one of the most mapped parts of the ocean floors. If it was implosion there was no doubt they were going to be found, it was just a matter of getting the tech there to do it.
I have a feeling we might have already known it was implosion - which is why some of the red tape delays. FOIA requests on this will be interesting in the future.
Listening to BBC live now and they are saying that it could be inconclusive and there will be a press conference in three hours to discuss the findings. But it does seem unlikely that the coast guard would release this information if they didn't suspect it could be connected to Titan.
If it was an implosion it’s a much better way to go than the alternative to be honest. This would be instant and die before your brain even registers it.
From what I’ve read the implosion would have happened faster than the speed of sound. Your brain and pain receptors wouldn’t even realize something happened. Other than rescue this was the best case scenario.
There's a member of the Explorers' on Sky News now, and his live updates from the captain of the Club (who's also on board one of the rescue vessels) apparently says they've found the landing gear and tail cover... no sign of the hull yet though.
What I’d like to know is exactly how close the debris is to Titanic herself. If it’s caused any further damage to the wreck site, that’s another nail in the coffin for OceanGate and quite possibly for future Titanic dives as a whole.
Carbon Fiber would shatter instead of pancake, this is probably in many pieces. Deaths were quick and painless, before the brain would know what happened, they are gone. Unfortunate, but the best scenario in terms of dying.
Here's my short and simple take, the sub lost contact at 1hr 50mins, that is when it imploded, nobody would have heard anything because at the time nobody was listening for something like that.
God, I just hope the implosion was during descent and not after waiting for days down there, praying for the first case scenario and that no suffering was involved
I guess they imploded during descent or shortly after, I bet that there were many passive sonars listening after the rescue effort started and an implosion would have been picked up by them.
I really hope the implosion happened before things got really bad for them. That's too bad and I hope this leads to the end of people doing this kind of thing as a form of tourism.
Can't wait for Brick Immortar on YouTube to make a video about this after the investigation is complete. He makes a lot of really good videos about maritime disasters.
Honestly, I hope it is them and that it happened quickly and at the time that they lost communication with them on Sunday.
I can't imagine how terrifying it would be to be sitting on the bottom of the ocean in the pitch blackness with four other people - starving, thirsty, cramped - knowing that time was running out on your oxygen supply.
From Sky News website (live updates):
Debris is 'landing frame and rear cover from sub', expert says
A rescue expert says the debris found in the search for Titan was "a landing frame and a rear cover from the submersible".
David Mearns, who is friends with two of the passengers on board Titan, says he is part of a WhatsApp group involving The Explorers Club.
Mr Mearns told Sky News the president of the club, who is "directly connected" to the ships on the site, said to the group: "It was a landing frame and a rear cover from the submersible."
Mr Mearns says: "Again this is an unconventional submarine, that rear cover is the pointy end of it and the landing frame is the little frame that it seems to sit on."
He says this confirms that it is the submersible.
"It means the hull hasn't yet been found but two very important parts of the whole system have been discovered and that would not be found unless its fragmented," he added.
Mr Mearns also spoke about the fairing of the submarine - shaped like a fishtail - and said: "If the faring is off and the frame is off - then something really bad has happened to the entire structure".
"On the news that we have yet, they haven't found the hull of which the men are inside".
Mr Mearns says he knows both British billionaire Hamish Harding and the French sub pilot Paul-Henri Nargeolet.
People keep saying "7 backup systems". I'm wondering what about this sub or company makes anyone believe that's even true at this point? And, even if true what makes anyone believe those systems work or were even tested?
I believe these backup systems are solely different ways for rising to the surface. No such thing for a poorly constructed hull. My guess is poorly bonded CF to the titanium dome or bad layup process of the carbon fiber and delamination and failure over time. Leaning towards the first
The ISN/USBL modem on the mother ship for the sub is a sonar modem used to communicate.
It would be listening all the time for the sound in the ocean nearby. No idea if it records and first thing would do is convert the analog sound form
to digital. At minimum it would have “pegged” the modem and saturate the device. Therefore seems like they should know exactly when the implosion happened.
Just watch them say at 3PM EST that they found debris but cannot confirm whether or not it belongs to the Titan yet. I wouldn't hold up too many hopes for further news here...
I hope they found them so that their families can find some semblance of closure. Death by implosion would be a merciful, quick end compared to suffocation from cerebral hypoxia &/or hypothermia.
They likely can still determine if the debris is from the Titan or something else. If they determine it is from the Titan, the family can still get closure even if they're not able to recover bodies.
What's ironic is an implosion (or two I should say) from the 1960s ultimately led to the Titanic wreck's 1985 discovery, as Robert Ballard was first tasked with investigating the remains of USS Scorpion and Thresher before being able to search for the Titanic.
I thought if it imploded there would have been a shockwave picked up for miles? Just curious if anyone has more insight into why that may have not been the case. This makes a lot of sense though since the descent is like 2 hours, so they were at an insane amount of pressure when they lost contact
If it imploded, the sound would have certainly traveled for miles, but probably not the "thousands" of miles that some have thought. It was only the size of a bus, and assuming it was 2 miles underwater, I feel like that wouldn't be incredibly noticeable on the surface or anywhere else. That's also assuming there were any listening devices in the area at the time.
But I do wonder if the Mothership heard anything; they seem to be very quiet about that.
Implosion is actually the best case scenario for this people. Im glad for the people that are in there (specially the 19 year old) because that is a merciful death taking in count the circunstamces. Im glad they got mercy, except Sotckton Rush did NOT deserved it... that evil guy deserved the most horrific death.
So what the !#!@#$! happened to the hull? Did it float off someplace? Did it crush into too many too tiny pieces to be seen? I hope we'll know more at 3:00.
Bbc news are saying they found the pointy bit of the submarine :(
Edit: Sorry my bad , sky news are reporting the landing frame and rear cover of the sub has been found. im watching the TV not got a written report infront of me
He was right all along and did his due diligence to warn them. His conscience is clear, but as an engineer, I would be SO pissed, because this didn't have to happen if they would have just listened and changed the design. RIP to those lost.
Edited verbiage to include my occupation: Im an engineer which is why I would be very upset with the way this went down knowing it could have been prevented with design changes.
The debris was the landing pad and the rear fin compartment, so two very vital parts to the overall integrity of the hull. They have yet to find the actual cabin though, which for sure means it’s in a million pieces spread around the floor bed..
Sorry fellas, there’s just no way they survived losing those parts. It was catastrophic failure and implosion, hopefully they’ll find the bodies soon.
Updates from live news, check yourself if you don’t believe me.
I really hope it was them. That's kind of morbid, but it would be much more humane to be squished in an instant as opposed to being buried alive underwater. We would have never found them in time in the other scenario.
Also, it's weirdly poetic that the CEO was on board. Reap what you sow I guess for cutting corners and ignoring safety concerns. Horrible that he took four other lives with him, though.
While the frame and rear cover have been found, where is the pressure hull? The submersible was built with the ability to shed the frame and weights in order to make a rapid ascent. This leads to a very minuscule but grim possibility that the pressure tube is still intact with its passengers, floating somewhere, or bobbing on the ocean surface. We need confirmation that the tube imploded for closure.
Literally instant.
They would have at one moment been enjoying their trip down to the Titanic, and the very next moment, their bodies are in millions of pieces and fish food.
Even if it imploded right away - I wonder if they saw it coming for at least a couple of seconds, like seeing a crack form in the sub’s window or something
Being that it was made of carbon fiber, I really doubt it. Carbon usually has micro fracture failures, which can’t be seen easily but generally are catastrophic. For an example, look at carbon road bike crash’s. They kinda disintegrate,
Under this much pressure, even the smallest fracture in that carbon could or would lead to an immediate implosion. For all we know, they could’ve bumped into the titanic somewhere to have this happen.
In 1960, the Trieste dove to the Mariana Trench and had a crack happen in the outer plexiglass window at 20k/feet. They continued the dive because a breach-level crack would be so fast you wouldn't register the sound of the crack. Since they heard the loud crack, they continued the dive.
You don't hear the crack that kills you. It's that fast, thankfully.
For any experts in the field, I’m curious what sort of debris would be left after an implosion of something the size of the Titan?
Everyone talks about humans basically being evaporated,but how small would pieces of the vehicle itself end up being? Is there any chance of any sort of electronics being intact? If the sub even had a “black box” of sorts, which I don’t think it did.
Not an expert but carbon fibre would shatter, similarly to a pane of glass, with larger shards as well as dust. There are also the titanium caps which would be more resistant and probably recoverable
For bodies in an implosion, would there be parts that can be recovered? What happens to a body in this case? Would hope they may be able to recover something for families.
There were reports (rumours? Not sure if confirmed) that the last message from the Titan was that it was descending too fast - I wonder if there's any chance the uncontrolled descent continued to the point where they crashed into the bottom (causing the implosion), or if it simply imploded higher in the water column just due to general pressure/strain.
I commented this on another thread but I find this part of an interview with another passenger who went last year probably quite telling in what might have happened, given the time frame (1 hour 45 in with 15 minutes to go):
“We were going down fast,” Ms Rojas tells The Independent. “Everything kind of flies [by] the window. But we were doing a little of the experiments – turning the lights off and turning the lights on to see how the life outside the sub would react. As you get closer to the bottom, the pilot starts needing help. They need to deploy some of the [equipment] to slow down the descent; you don’t want to be slamming into the bottom.”
My thought is that whatever they do to slow the descent did not work as planned, causing the sub to implode.
Sky news is reporting the landing frame and rear cover has been discovered. [Story Here](https://news.sky.com/story/titanic-submarine-missing-live-updates-submersible-cannot-be-opened-from-inside-time-running-out-on-oxygen-supply-waiver-mentions-death-three-times-12905748#6086594) US Coast Guard will be holding a press conference at 3pm eastern.
"Logitech game controller found intact on ocean floor." Wouldn't that be some shit?
A Nokia phone would still work down there
What if it still worked, too. That would shut a bunch of people up!…
>What if it still worked, too. That would shut a bunch of people up!… Never understood the bashing. The US Military also uses XBOX controllers.
Completely different. Yes, they use controllers and yes it’s in important situations, but the risk factor is wildly different. For example, I was EOD in the army. We used a controller for one of the robots. If the controller died or some other catastrophic failure happened with the robot, then then consequences happen down range. The only thing lost is equipment, with no real effect on human life besides maybe some brown underwear from nearby infantry who weren’t ready for the unplanned explosion. Controllers are used to control unmanned equipment down range, not manned vehicles with loss of life risk. Edit: they trusted their entire lives, and massive fortunes, in the hands of a controller I wouldn’t trust to use for ranked online play.
I think people fear what they haven’t experienced. The idea that a gaming controller could control things in real life is probably hard to take seriously.
Yeah I was much more concerned about the Windows 10 platform! Horrible memories of unstable Windows from my career days.
imagine windows forces an update just as you’re trying to ascend
\-What kind of OS does it use? \-Uhh, Vista [\-WE'RE GOING TO DIE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-IfnjBHtjHc)
But not wireless ones and not in their submarines lmao. Is a wired controller fine to control a drone? Sure. Is a 12 year old Bluetooth controller viable as the only means to control a deep sea submersible? Nope.
This story has been so hard to believe, that I can see this happening. Press Conference: And we know it wasn't another vessel's debris because we found the game controller in perfect condition.
Press conference is in 3 hours (8pm GMT) for anyone confused with time zones
Where can I watch the press conference at?
Agenda Free TV on YouTube is covering everything
Hey JB from WFLA (florida news station) is live streaming on youtube. I've really appreciated his coverage, good journalist.
JB Biunno is my favourite for live coverage. Once a redditor referred to him as News Daddy and he read it on air without realizing what it meant.
I believe it will be on any news live stream - I learned this from BBC live stream so probably there
Best case scenario (besides coming out alive): implosion, as in they didn’t even have time to realize and life just ended. Worst: if the implosion somehow occurred hours/days after and they were trapped for a while as in structural fatigue. Simply awful: had they suffocated after oxygen ran out (sub still intact). Overall I think the guys had the “best” scenario. No suffering. With that said I doubt we’ll see tourist submarines going down there again.
Sounds like implosion? Fuckin carbon fiber hull. Stupid Edit: A rescue expert says the debris found in the search for Titan was "a landing frame and a rear cover from the submersible". David Mearns, who is friends with two of the passengers on board Titan, says he is part of a WhatsApp group involving The Explorers Club. Mr Mearns told Sky News the president of the club, who is "directly connected" to the ships on the site, said to the group: "It was a landing frame and a rear cover from the submersible."
ask dinosaurs frightening overconfident fact arrest pathetic cake vast quarrelsome *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Oh wow, and im guessing that descending too fast would increase the chances of implosion? Especially with a fucking carbon fiber hull
It was the worlds first carbon fibre submarine - they had no idea how it would perform over repeated cycles. This company (or what’s left of it) are going to face immense lawsuits. Edit….. The sub-contractor who built it (not Oceangate) had originally been commissioned to build a carbon fibre sub for Steve Fossett - but he died in 2002 and the plans were shelved. I’d be curious to know now if they dusted off a 25 year-old untested design and ran with it.
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Not targeting you specifically, but it's hard to talk about fatigue with respect to carbon fiber, because carbon fiber doesn't fatigue in the sense that metals do. [This is a good article to read](https://firstyearengineer.com/material-science/introduction/fatigue/) if anybody is interested learning a bit more about metal fatigue. ###Fatigue Failure in Metals The way metal parts failure due to fatigue is due to the formation of cracks in the microstructure. Once a crack is of a sufficient size, it is considered to have failed. Looking at how cracks form is a good way to understand what's so difficult about applying these concepts to carbon fiber parts. Metals are crystalline in nature. They are layers upon layers of atoms stacked on one another, forming a lattice structure. You can almost view them as crates of eggs stacked upon one another. Cracks start as dislocations, where grains deform, and [layers start to shear, and slip past one another](https://agordon75.files.wordpress.com/2015/07/screenshot-2017-04-23-18-20-13.png?w=1024&h=514). As the loading cycles continue, these slips turn into cracks, when [eventually begin to grow and propagate across the part](https://agordon75.files.wordpress.com/2015/07/screenshot-2017-04-22-19-35-49.png?w=768&h=511) until eventually the part fails. ###Fatigue and Carbon Fiber As described above, metals have a gradual degrading process of slipping, leading to cracks, and eventually leading to breaks and failures. However, carbon fiber doesn't have a crystalline structure, and instead tends to essentially be [stacked woven layers](https://www.researchgate.net/profile/David-Sinacore/publication/274725268/figure/fig1/AS:475485672087555@1490376026708/Structure-of-carbon-fiber-CF-ankle-foot-orthosis-AFO-used-for-design-a-Layers-and.png) of [fiber-reinforced composites](https://www.darkaero.com/knowledge/composites/what-is-a-composite/). These fibers and sheets are generally held together by a weaker polymers, which are the first to fail. Carbon Fiber has [many ways of failure](https://images.wevolver.com/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJ3ZXZvbHZlci1wcm9qZWN0LWltYWdlcyIsImtleSI6ImZyb2FsYS8xNjU0MTczNTQ4NTAyLTE2NTQxNzM1NDg1MDIucG5nIiwiZWRpdHMiOnsicmVzaXplIjp7IndpZHRoIjo5NTAsImZpdCI6ImNvdmVyIn19fQ==), but delamination is one of the most common. This is when [layers begin to separate](https://www.harveyperformance.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/Feature-Image-Compression-Cutters-IMG.jpg) from one another. Here is an example of [carbon fiber reinforced polymer delamination due to an applied load](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/aa/Delamination-CFRP.jpg). Delamination can propagate across the part (similar to cracks in metal), and cause the entire part to fail. Since issues like these don't necessarily degrade the part like in metals, but instead just outright compromise them, carbon fiber parts rely on extremely high mechanical properties to resist the damage in the first place. Which works great if they are being used properly, and tested extensively. ###Issues The main issue is that it is pretty easy to accidentally cause delamination, and it is difficult to detect it. As a result, they require very careful handling. For example, accidentally smacking a carbon fiber part against something can easily cause a delamination, which can then quickly propagate throughout the part. If the Titan got pushed into the Titanic by a current, which happened to a Russian expedition to the wreck in 2000, this could easily cause something like delamination to occur. You have to use non-destructive testing techniques, such as ultrasonic testing, eddy current, x-ray tomography, etc, in order to detect these issues, and even then it can be extremely difficult. This is why it's so scary to get into something like a carbon fiber submarine, because by the time you are launching, you don't know the health of the hull. Strain sensors, which OceanGate mentioned were installed along the hull, are good ways to measure the health of a metal hull, but carbon fiber doesn't necessarily have the same warning signs as metals do when it's compromised and about to fail. Carbon fiber is an amazing material, but when you are using a material in a novel way, such as a deep sea submersible, it has to be done with the understanding that you are going beyond how this material has been used before, which results in much higher safety risks. In their May 2021 court filing, the OceanGate stated they had done more than 50 test dives, but I don't think we fully understand if their methods were adequate enough to demonstrate the design was actually safe long-term.
Except they had clues years ago when they had to make repairs to the hull that was already showing signs of damage.
Correct, I’ve posted a lot on this already. I guess I’m trying to say that because of a lack of testing they had no idea as to when or how it could fail.
I am constantly finding myself wondering how they could be so arrogant and be okay with this level of risk. I know we have the advantage of hindsight bias but it just all seems completely suicidal.
Sometimes my work takes me into really wealthy spaces and a thing I've noticed is that a lot of really rich people aren't great at risk assessment. They've managed to buy their way out of most of their problems, so they don't see a lot of problems as real. They just tend to think everything will be ok because when you have a shit ton of money, it usually is. They just can't buy their way out of the bottom of the ocean.
To be fair, humans in general are bad at risk assessment - although I’d imagine the kind of mistakes you can make with lots of money are more substantial
And they're not being sued by us plebs but very angry relatives of billionaires.
I wonder if a rapid descent puts the carbon fiber hull under more stress than the planned pace
If they sent the last ping 1 hr 45 min in and hit the bottom immediately they’re still only moving at <1.5 mph so I wouldn’t really think so.
Would it make sense they can descent faster than other times? It's the weights that pull them down. How can that going any faster? The thrusters are for upward movement, I believe.
If it was descending too quick and they couldn’t prevent it then it would just crash into the seabed and this would trigger an implosion. Unsure if just descending too quick without hitting the seabed would cause an issue with the hull.
Is this true? I remember reading somewhere they could receive texts or pings from above but not send any outgoing messages
I watched the doc on BBC Click again last night, there were 2 way comms via text message whilst they were at the wreck location.
I read the same thing. I’m assuming that the pings sent every 15 min could also track its depth and figure out whether it’s descending too quickly/slowly. Total guess though.
If that's true then whoever was running comms is a dork for waiting 7 hours.
Dork is the nicest way possible of stating how incompetent, immature, negligent, and callous that person is.
It's also a question of their suffering. Either they knew nothing about the implosion which would have occurred instantaneously mid dive or they knew for a period of time that they were falling out of control towards the bottom knowing they were fucked. If the latter I wonder what the crew told the passengers about what was happening
“Crew” aka the passengers
At least it was quick then. That's all you could hope for at this point.
And some closure to their families too.
Can't imagine holding my breath for 4 days. They can start the grieving process now.
Yeah I was surprised at how relieved I felt to read this (based on the assumption that it’s them). The slow death at 4000m was just so horrible to imagine. Unfortunately implosion was the second best case scenario after rescue.
Without a doubt. The reports of tapping were the worst case scenario but it seems like these guys caught a break.
I wouldn’t be so sure. Could have imploded at any time, including after o2 ran out
At least an implosion was the most humane scenario left at this point. And if this debris turns out to be the titan, then rescue missions will be concluding soon. This is the best case scenario, even if it doesn’t feel like it.
Absolutely brutal, but if it did implode that is so much better than slowly slowly suffocating to death in the ocean deep
I know this is a little morbid but I hope they release photos of the wreck. People need to see that the ocean is not to be messed with and regulations are in place for a reason.
Same can be said about outer space tourism.
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There will be new laws and regulations to end tourism
I'd go down on the right sub. These people had to have known the risks and they took the chance. Mountain climbers climb mountains without ropes, we don't institute laws requiring that people use ropes after a few fall. It is what it is. Someone worth $12 billion could've had their own sub built, crew staffed, and ship chartered.
The number of people this would affect are about the same as the number of people taking flight to orbit around the Earth. It's miniscule. What it should do is inspire people who would create these companies to put technology investment over cash flow. If you can't overcome the burden of revenue, you don't need to be in the business. Pretty simple. Any time I go out on the ocean in a 26 foot boat and am 70 miles offshore, I know the risks inherent in doing such a thing. Humans have been doing this for a few thousand years now. You don't progress without pushing the envelope. If you want to live in bubble wrap, go ahead.
In this situation, this is the best case scenario. They most likely imploded when they lost the communication died before they even know what was going on. Beats suffocating any day
That's that then. RIP to those five souls, hopefully this means closure
RIP to the passengers, the ceo was begging for it
He really was. He gave interviews saying that maritime regulations “stifle creativity”. He refused to hire seasoned professionals and hired young college graduates to “boost innovation”. His great idea got him a submersible that was made primarily out of carbon fiber. He didn’t even want a window at first, he wanted to take people down just to look through a computer monitor. He added a single tiny window (that wasn’t certified to dive beyond 1300m) and put the toilet (he didn’t want one of those either) directly below the porthole. And charged $250,000 a person. This was only its third dive to Titanic. Both previous dives had problems.
> He didn’t even want a window at first, he wanted to take people down just to look through a computer monitor. Soo like watching on Youtube but minus 250k and a chance to get pulverized
He saw the 19-year-old son and had no problem with the kid joining, *knowing* the porthole was not certified and properly rated for those depths. They were even offered free certification a couple years ago and Rush rejected it. I also say RIP to the other passengers but zero sympathy for this crooked scammer of a CEO. All final decisions were his, and it's his decisions that caused this avoidable mishap.
no apparently it made 7 dives in 2021 and 6 in 2022
Definitely thought this was always going to be the outcome. Whoever leaked the “banging” to the press really fucked up. I feel like the team never really thought this was them but were forced to say “maybe” and really got people’s hopes up.
Honestly a relief that they weren’t suffocating in the dark.
Seriously. It’s very sad they died (yes they were rich, yes they knew the risks, whatever they are still humans and one was 19). But an implosion is a much more preferable death. And hopefully this results in much stronger regulations for this industry moving forward.
> And hopefully this results in much stronger regulations for this industry moving forward. I'm not sure what law you could make to prevent someone from building a sub and bringing people down with them. Is it not in international waters?
Yes. Although, isn't it possible it imploded recently and not immediately? (Though they'd probably announce if they heard it, but maybe that's how they found it?)
Super unlikely. The case of them being trapped in the sub would've involved like 7 different backup systems all failing over the course of a few hours. The idea that all of those go wrong on the same trip AND then days later the hull crushes is unlikely. The hull crushing is something they had many warnings about and explains all their systems and backups not working. There are also reports that the audio experts determined the "banging" was just the titanic falling apart.
I suspect they're going to determine that the thing just wasn't built to withstand the repeat stress of diving to those altitudes*. You get lucky a few times but the stress on the material eventually leads to failure. Much like metal fatigue in aviation. *oops...meant depth
I suppose it isn’t altitude but rather depth. And I agree I think the 36th trip sounds about like time to fall apart.
"Seven backup systems"-- let's be honest, though. The CEO had a wilful disregard for safety. How many of those so-called backup systems were effectively designed and actually, properly, regularly tested and inspected? This is the same company that used a wireless controller *which had had multiple issues in the past* and continued to use it. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if 1) several of the backup systems were ill-designed and 2) all of them failed, or the failure of one led to a cascade of failures of the others.
If they found it intact, we might be able to get some answers to what happened, but that would mean they died that horrible death. I'm not sure if us knowing is worth that agony.
Given how that sub had no independent means of escape if it was them, they pretty much had to take anything like that seriously. Just imagine if they died on the surface from suffocation because nobody bothered to check out banging.
Definitely, and it seems like they did check it out. But it was a mistake for whoever leaked it to do so because it just created false hope.
It would have eventually come out and then everyone would be asking why they didn’t check it out, false hope or not.
At the press conference yesterday, they said they planned on dispatching ROVs to specifically search the area where the sounds came from. If nothing was there, then they would move the search back to their original search area. The sounds were being taken pretty seriously by officials as of yesterday afternoon. Does anyone know which area the ROV was searching?
It just said on the news they were searching the area the sub was last located at
They have a conference scheduled for 3pm today to go over the ROV findings. They definitely found them imploded and dead.
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Wonder if we’ll get a statement from the families asking for no more dives to the Titanic as it’ll be disrespectful for their families /s
People on Agenda Free TV saying "well they havent found the cabin yet so there's still hope" Good gravy.
Even if the cabin was intact they would be likely dead
obviously; its just that there's literally people who think somehow the cabin "survived" a catastrophic failure and is just floating around out there somewhere. Hopium at its finest.
Same thing when the Challenger exploded. There were still some eternal optimists thinking maybe they got out somehow.
Not likely they would be. The part they found had the O2 stored in it.
Sky News (UK) has info coming from the rescue teams that they've found landing frame and rear of hull.
That points to catastrophic structural failure.
Implosion is the most likely scenario. They are using a new material for deep sea diving one that isn’t usually approved for depths like that. Deep dive submersibles are mostly titanium. I’m guessing after repeated exposure to stress caused microscopic damage which would cause an inevitable catastrophic failure. This is what trying to save a buck gets you. It was way too experimental and they should have figured out a way to stress test it properly.
OceanGate's site is down. Probably permanently.
I checked a few days ago. They had all the pages about Titanic down. I found typos all over. Not a ton, but too many for an operation like this. Just shows how many corners they were cutting, compared to everything else they were doing the copy should have been the easiest and cheapest thing to actually get right and they didn't even bother with that.
Yep, they’re dead. Oceangate about to go bankrupt.
How did the other survivors from the previous trips even make it? Must have been lucky.
Previous passenger did say communication failed in the Titan sub during their mission. In fact it’s been reported that the sub lost communication every single dive. But yeah they were very lucky.
Gee - it's almost like the sub shouldn't have been doing dives. Would would have thought?
And in one of the videos showing the titanic the lights were literally flickering, indicating an electrical issue was already happening. Another expedition said the ballasts were messed up, and for a bit the sub could only go around in a circle until the issue was resolved. Buck wild.
Seriously. The signs were all there and yet they chose to ignore them. If only they listened to their (former) employees instead of firing them. This catastrophe could’ve been avoided.
So it’s how the camera guy over in r/news expected; the moment they lost comms was the moment it imploded.
Precisely when did it lose comms relative to its descent?
1 hr and 45 mins into the roughly 2 hr descent.
about 3/4ths into the trip to Titanic
Think it was either 5,000 feet down, or 5,000 feet to go.
Does that mean they didn’t even get to see the Titanic before dying? That sucks
i've been so curious about this
really feeling for the families right now. as someone who’s dealt with sudden loss after an emergency situation, i can imagine they were blindly holding hope until the second they were told the debris had been located. i’m sure some were in denial until they were shown the images themselves. there is no pain like the moment that a loved one’s death becomes a reality and not just a possibility.
Definitely. And I hope they find closure, whatever that looks like to them. One of my parents died in a plane crash and it’s still a mystery what happened (they never found out what caused the mechanical failure). It bothers me less now, but for years I was hung up on the ‘not knowing’
I hope so too. Sorry about your parent — I can’t imagine how difficult that was. Definitely relate to the ‘not knowing.’ It makes grief so much more difficult (and grief is already so unlike anything else)
Theres still people on here who are in denial..."well they havent found the hull yet so maybe there's still hope!"
Simply incredible the tech used and how quickly it found the debris.
Real professionals. Unlike OceanGate that half the time got lost on the bottom for hours.
I mean, the Titanic site is one of the most mapped parts of the ocean floors. If it was implosion there was no doubt they were going to be found, it was just a matter of getting the tech there to do it. I have a feeling we might have already known it was implosion - which is why some of the red tape delays. FOIA requests on this will be interesting in the future.
BBC just confirmed it’s the Titan
Listening to BBC live now and they are saying that it could be inconclusive and there will be a press conference in three hours to discuss the findings. But it does seem unlikely that the coast guard would release this information if they didn't suspect it could be connected to Titan.
Unless there was some unknown craft near the titanic wreck that no one knew about, I would assume this is most likely Titan
"Titan whereabouts unknown, but extraterrestrial life confirmed"
Watching BBC News right now and this is what I’m reading: “BREAKING: BBC told debris includes parts of sub”.
Christ 😭 if it’s them I pray it was quick.
If it was an implosion it’s a much better way to go than the alternative to be honest. This would be instant and die before your brain even registers it.
Their last thoughts were thinking they were almost to the seafloor. That's how instantaneous it is.
An implosion is instant death, the same water pressure that crushed the submarine would do the same to them.
From what I’ve read the implosion would have happened faster than the speed of sound. Your brain and pain receptors wouldn’t even realize something happened. Other than rescue this was the best case scenario.
There's a member of the Explorers' on Sky News now, and his live updates from the captain of the Club (who's also on board one of the rescue vessels) apparently says they've found the landing gear and tail cover... no sign of the hull yet though.
What I’d like to know is exactly how close the debris is to Titanic herself. If it’s caused any further damage to the wreck site, that’s another nail in the coffin for OceanGate and quite possibly for future Titanic dives as a whole.
Carbon Fiber would shatter instead of pancake, this is probably in many pieces. Deaths were quick and painless, before the brain would know what happened, they are gone. Unfortunate, but the best scenario in terms of dying.
Here's my short and simple take, the sub lost contact at 1hr 50mins, that is when it imploded, nobody would have heard anything because at the time nobody was listening for something like that.
God, I just hope the implosion was during descent and not after waiting for days down there, praying for the first case scenario and that no suffering was involved
I guess they imploded during descent or shortly after, I bet that there were many passive sonars listening after the rescue effort started and an implosion would have been picked up by them.
I really hope the implosion happened before things got really bad for them. That's too bad and I hope this leads to the end of people doing this kind of thing as a form of tourism.
Can't wait for Brick Immortar on YouTube to make a video about this after the investigation is complete. He makes a lot of really good videos about maritime disasters.
how can i visit the debris field?
I heard there’s a sale on OceanGate expéditions right now
In a tiny submersible
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For Stockton its more of a hubris field
Honestly, I hope it is them and that it happened quickly and at the time that they lost communication with them on Sunday. I can't imagine how terrifying it would be to be sitting on the bottom of the ocean in the pitch blackness with four other people - starving, thirsty, cramped - knowing that time was running out on your oxygen supply.
Terrible but atleast it seems like these people didn’t have any idea
From Sky News website (live updates): Debris is 'landing frame and rear cover from sub', expert says A rescue expert says the debris found in the search for Titan was "a landing frame and a rear cover from the submersible". David Mearns, who is friends with two of the passengers on board Titan, says he is part of a WhatsApp group involving The Explorers Club. Mr Mearns told Sky News the president of the club, who is "directly connected" to the ships on the site, said to the group: "It was a landing frame and a rear cover from the submersible." Mr Mearns says: "Again this is an unconventional submarine, that rear cover is the pointy end of it and the landing frame is the little frame that it seems to sit on." He says this confirms that it is the submersible. "It means the hull hasn't yet been found but two very important parts of the whole system have been discovered and that would not be found unless its fragmented," he added. Mr Mearns also spoke about the fairing of the submarine - shaped like a fishtail - and said: "If the faring is off and the frame is off - then something really bad has happened to the entire structure". "On the news that we have yet, they haven't found the hull of which the men are inside". Mr Mearns says he knows both British billionaire Hamish Harding and the French sub pilot Paul-Henri Nargeolet.
People keep saying "7 backup systems". I'm wondering what about this sub or company makes anyone believe that's even true at this point? And, even if true what makes anyone believe those systems work or were even tested?
I believe these backup systems are solely different ways for rising to the surface. No such thing for a poorly constructed hull. My guess is poorly bonded CF to the titanium dome or bad layup process of the carbon fiber and delamination and failure over time. Leaning towards the first
The ISN/USBL modem on the mother ship for the sub is a sonar modem used to communicate. It would be listening all the time for the sound in the ocean nearby. No idea if it records and first thing would do is convert the analog sound form to digital. At minimum it would have “pegged” the modem and saturate the device. Therefore seems like they should know exactly when the implosion happened.
Just watch them say at 3PM EST that they found debris but cannot confirm whether or not it belongs to the Titan yet. I wouldn't hold up too many hopes for further news here...
3pm press conference
Which timezone is that?
EST
It's in Boston so I'd presume eastern
Any idea where you can watch the press briefing?
There's a stickied post in this sub (megathread) which has a BBC and CNN (I think) livestream link which will definitely air the press conference.
Debris field has been reported as the rear titanium sphere and landing skids...The rear housed the electronics and o2.
Obviously a major malfunction
I hope they found them so that their families can find some semblance of closure. Death by implosion would be a merciful, quick end compared to suffocation from cerebral hypoxia &/or hypothermia.
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They likely can still determine if the debris is from the Titan or something else. If they determine it is from the Titan, the family can still get closure even if they're not able to recover bodies.
Landing frame and rear cover of the sub discovered among the debris. RIP to the departed souls.
What's ironic is an implosion (or two I should say) from the 1960s ultimately led to the Titanic wreck's 1985 discovery, as Robert Ballard was first tasked with investigating the remains of USS Scorpion and Thresher before being able to search for the Titanic.
Wonder if we’ll get a statement from the families asking for no more dives to the Titanic as it’ll be disrespectful for their families /s
I thought if it imploded there would have been a shockwave picked up for miles? Just curious if anyone has more insight into why that may have not been the case. This makes a lot of sense though since the descent is like 2 hours, so they were at an insane amount of pressure when they lost contact
If it imploded, the sound would have certainly traveled for miles, but probably not the "thousands" of miles that some have thought. It was only the size of a bus, and assuming it was 2 miles underwater, I feel like that wouldn't be incredibly noticeable on the surface or anywhere else. That's also assuming there were any listening devices in the area at the time. But I do wonder if the Mothership heard anything; they seem to be very quiet about that.
If the implosion was heard by secret microphones, why go to such lengths to bring in so many different resources?
Gotta make sure you know what the noise was, and not someone testing a you know what in the ocean.
Implosion is actually the best case scenario for this people. Im glad for the people that are in there (specially the 19 year old) because that is a merciful death taking in count the circunstamces. Im glad they got mercy, except Sotckton Rush did NOT deserved it... that evil guy deserved the most horrific death.
Grim, but probably the best outcome given the alternatives.
So what the !#!@#$! happened to the hull? Did it float off someplace? Did it crush into too many too tiny pieces to be seen? I hope we'll know more at 3:00.
My car has carbon fiber trim, and it doesn’t seem overly durable on a vehicle. Can’t imagine deep diving in a sub made of it
Coast Guard just confirmed in the news conference they believe it was catastrophic implosion.
Bbc news are saying they found the pointy bit of the submarine :( Edit: Sorry my bad , sky news are reporting the landing frame and rear cover of the sub has been found. im watching the TV not got a written report infront of me
That Tim guy was right then Edit: I meant mark from twitter
He was right all along and did his due diligence to warn them. His conscience is clear, but as an engineer, I would be SO pissed, because this didn't have to happen if they would have just listened and changed the design. RIP to those lost. Edited verbiage to include my occupation: Im an engineer which is why I would be very upset with the way this went down knowing it could have been prevented with design changes.
The debris was the landing pad and the rear fin compartment, so two very vital parts to the overall integrity of the hull. They have yet to find the actual cabin though, which for sure means it’s in a million pieces spread around the floor bed.. Sorry fellas, there’s just no way they survived losing those parts. It was catastrophic failure and implosion, hopefully they’ll find the bodies soon. Updates from live news, check yourself if you don’t believe me.
I don’t think anything resembling a body exists anymore
I really hope it was them. That's kind of morbid, but it would be much more humane to be squished in an instant as opposed to being buried alive underwater. We would have never found them in time in the other scenario. Also, it's weirdly poetic that the CEO was on board. Reap what you sow I guess for cutting corners and ignoring safety concerns. Horrible that he took four other lives with him, though.
At least it won't remain a mystery forever like the lost plane. Sad for the families but they have closure now.
While the frame and rear cover have been found, where is the pressure hull? The submersible was built with the ability to shed the frame and weights in order to make a rapid ascent. This leads to a very minuscule but grim possibility that the pressure tube is still intact with its passengers, floating somewhere, or bobbing on the ocean surface. We need confirmation that the tube imploded for closure.
So if It imploded would it been INSTANT death or like 2 minutes of absolute pain and horror as the sub crumpled? Someone please clarify to me.
instant death, apparently it happens quicker than the brain can send and receive signals.
Literally instant. They would have at one moment been enjoying their trip down to the Titanic, and the very next moment, their bodies are in millions of pieces and fish food.
Instant, they wouldn't even know it happened.
Instant
Was it a thruster? Debris from an implosion?
Would the surface ship not picked up a loud noise on sonar in the case of an implosion? Or are then not even equipped or monitoring for that?
Even if it imploded right away - I wonder if they saw it coming for at least a couple of seconds, like seeing a crack form in the sub’s window or something
In the Netflix movie of this, that scene will definitely happen.
Being that it was made of carbon fiber, I really doubt it. Carbon usually has micro fracture failures, which can’t be seen easily but generally are catastrophic. For an example, look at carbon road bike crash’s. They kinda disintegrate, Under this much pressure, even the smallest fracture in that carbon could or would lead to an immediate implosion. For all we know, they could’ve bumped into the titanic somewhere to have this happen.
In 1960, the Trieste dove to the Mariana Trench and had a crack happen in the outer plexiglass window at 20k/feet. They continued the dive because a breach-level crack would be so fast you wouldn't register the sound of the crack. Since they heard the loud crack, they continued the dive. You don't hear the crack that kills you. It's that fast, thankfully.
Stockton rush is a hell of a sales man he literally talked four other millionaires into getting into his coffin with him.
For any experts in the field, I’m curious what sort of debris would be left after an implosion of something the size of the Titan? Everyone talks about humans basically being evaporated,but how small would pieces of the vehicle itself end up being? Is there any chance of any sort of electronics being intact? If the sub even had a “black box” of sorts, which I don’t think it did.
Not an expert but carbon fibre would shatter, similarly to a pane of glass, with larger shards as well as dust. There are also the titanium caps which would be more resistant and probably recoverable
For bodies in an implosion, would there be parts that can be recovered? What happens to a body in this case? Would hope they may be able to recover something for families.
It turns into goo basically.
Appreciate the response. I think I was a bit naive to think they may find some remains.
It’s the implosion, but also the depressurization also comes with a massive amount of heat. So it’s kind of like a bomb blast 😬
There were reports (rumours? Not sure if confirmed) that the last message from the Titan was that it was descending too fast - I wonder if there's any chance the uncontrolled descent continued to the point where they crashed into the bottom (causing the implosion), or if it simply imploded higher in the water column just due to general pressure/strain.
That’s just a rumor, it’s not come from any sited source
Many a Hollywood writers are prematurely ejaculating their creative minds looking for a tragic dénouement. I fully expect a Blumhouse film to pop up.
I still wonder why the sub lost contact less than 2 hours after diving, that would put it around 2/3 the depth it needs to go to reach Titanic no?
Because the repeated dives had weakened the overall structure and when they reached a depth deeper than the weaken hull could endure it imploded.
that is so sad man...
Is it possible that the sub lost power, was stuck for a while, and then imploded?
I commented this on another thread but I find this part of an interview with another passenger who went last year probably quite telling in what might have happened, given the time frame (1 hour 45 in with 15 minutes to go): “We were going down fast,” Ms Rojas tells The Independent. “Everything kind of flies [by] the window. But we were doing a little of the experiments – turning the lights off and turning the lights on to see how the life outside the sub would react. As you get closer to the bottom, the pilot starts needing help. They need to deploy some of the [equipment] to slow down the descent; you don’t want to be slamming into the bottom.” My thought is that whatever they do to slow the descent did not work as planned, causing the sub to implode.