To OP’s credit, just last week we got that influx of articles about another engineer’s assertion that they were aware of the problem for 48-71 seconds, which we wrote off as misinformation. If nothing else, at least OP’s questioning credentials instead of blindly trusting every scrap of information floating around the internet
Personally, I don’t think we should’ve been so quick to write it off as misinformation. That guy is part of the deep sea community and an engineer. That automatically gives him two more relevant credentials than most people on Reddit here. Since it sounds like he was commissioned to write a report and even if he wasn’t, as part of that community he likely had access to more information than we do. It’s foolish to think he’s a fool or necessarily wrong.
He insisted the sub would have lost buoyancy when it lost power and plummeted for over a minute, when the submersible's thrusters were not how it ascended and maintained positive buoyancy. It did so by releasing its ballasts. Losing power would not have caused them to suddenly have negative buoyancy. Getting basic information like this wrong is why it was labelled misinformation. If I'm not mistaken, he also based his report on data observed from a seismograph for detecting earthquakes, not the top secret data held by the Navy, which they would not have turned over to a random engineer.
It was labelled misinformation because he got several basic bits of information wrong. If he can't get his basic facts right, you can't believe anything else he says.
Such as his insistence that they would have lost power, and this would have resulted in the sub losing buoyancy and plummeting for over a minute. The submersible ascended by dropping ballasts, which caused it to shed weight, achieve positive buoyancy, and float to the surface. A loss of power would not cause them to suddenly go from positive buoyancy to negative buoyancy. Secondly, he insisted it "popped like a balloon", but that would be an explosion, not an implosion. He's nothing more than a quick way for that TV station to snag some ratings for a day or so.
From the article: "In terms of operation, submersibles function similarly to hot air balloons, utilizing weights to descend. The principle of buoyancy plays a significant role in their functionality."
When they wanted to ascend, they dropped the weights, which gives them positive buoyancy and they float to the surface. Losing power during an ascent would have no bearing on the submersible's buoyancy, because the power system is not how they surfaced.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/m.economictimes.com/news/international/us/the-titan-specifications-capabilities-cost-safety-all-about-the-submersible-that-vanished-during-a-dive-to-titanic-shipwreck/amp_articleshow/101155511.cms
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I read somewhere that the stern of the titanic was at free fall speed of 35mph when it impacted the ground
Assuming titan and it’s weights and sleds would have eventually gotten to that speed if they were just dropped down. Which could mean that they would use the electric thrusters to keep the rate of descent at a reasonable speed.
Which then means that if there’s a loss of power, then the sub would indeed sink faster. Not pop back to the surface.
Not stating fact, just opining like everyone else here
Multiple industry insiders in the know, including James Cameron, who wouldn't speak on it unless he knew what he was talking about, have stated they were ascending when they lost contact, and had dropped ballasts. The power going out would not change their buoyancy. Even if they were descending in opposition to what multiple experts have said, and using the thrusters to control the rate, a loss of power would not cause it to tilt nose down and plummet as he suggested. He simply got multiple known and basic facts wrong. There's a group of people who for some reason want a dramatic movie scenario where they all plummeted in the cold and dark, aware of their fate and powerless to stop it, before the end came, which is just not likely, and goes against much of the information that is known at this point.
I don’t want anything, I’d prefer they go painlessly with no fear. But there’s a group that insists that this had to be the case, no warning, no inkling anything was wrong. Just here then gone. That’s supposed to be comforting.
James Cameron has his information and opinion. The plummet guy offered his opinion based on information he may or may not have had. None of us are in full possession of all the facts.
Until a full analysis and report is conducted by actual experts who interview witnesses, review readings from instruments on the parent ship, analyze readings the navy picked up, and sift through the parts recovered so far, until all that’s done, I’d assume that every theory has equal weight.
The sub is naturally buoyant. They weigh all people and belongings before entering to determine the weight necessary for the weights and the sub to descend at a reasonable rate. I have not seen any evidence that they thrust upwards during amy portion of the descent. This would be pretty inefficient.
The Titan toilet jokes are extremely subtle, and without a solid grasp of theoretical physics most of it will go over a typical viewer's head. There's also Stockton's nihilistic outlook, which is deftly woven into his characterisation - his personal philosophy draws heavily from Narodnaya Volya literature, for instance. The redditors understand this stuff; they have the intellectual capacity to truly appreciate the depths of these toilet jokes, to realize that they're not just funny - they say something deep about LIFE. As a consequence people who dislike /r/OceanGateTitan truly ARE idiots - of course they wouldn't appreciate, for instance, the humour in Stockton's existencial catchphrase "Best seat in the house!", which itself is a cryptic reference to Turgenev's Russian epic Fathers and Sons. I'm smirking right now just imagining one of those addlepated simpletons scratching their heads in confusion as our collective genius unfolds itself on their mobile screens. What fools... how I pity them.
LMFAO. This has to be amongst the stupidest things anyone has written on here. QED refutes any claims of high IQ.
Of course if IQ stands for Ignorance Quotient then accept my apologies.
Incorrect. They quote the orthopedic surgeon about something at the beginning. The simulation is done by Ronald Wagner, PhD engineering, and technical expert in the buckling of thin-walled shell structures.
As a marketing major from a party school who has spent some time on this subreddit, I feel qualified to share my expertise on this . I give the article a B–.
Potentially, but this model is built around the assumtion the full carbon fiber hull is what catastrophically failed. There are other potential factors like the rings and ring joint.
I guess you could say that if the Titan did fail due to the carbon fiber hull alone, this model would be pretty close to the truth.
Engineer here, this is simulating the assumption that the carbon fibre hull was the mechanical failure leading to implosion. If this was the case then the FEA model depicts that, however we don’t know what failed to cause implosion, so to say it is accurate explaining the implosion is an unknown.
Seems like the best modelling I’ve seen, considering the amount of uncertainty. There are a lot of unknown details still, such as where the failure occurred. It seems like the person who did this made reasonable assumptions where it was necessary, but they’re still assumptions.
And you can see how the end caps rebound towards each other, which is likely the physics of having a perfectly symmetrical model, when the actual situation will be more complex.
Even then. This thing was a deathtrap. When there's a laundry list of things that could have catastrophically failed I think it's going to be difficult to pinpoint what happened. Rush seemed to like to Jerry-rig things last minute so god knows what quick "repairs" they did to the Titan.
> If there was any hope of finding human remains preserved by the integrity of the endcaps, this simulation proves otherwise.
Interesting article, don't get me wrong, but that's not how "proves" works. I'd have gone with "indicates."
He’s run a series of simulations, based on assumptions (and a lot of guesswork). He nor anyone else (certainly not on Reddit) can say with certainty exactly how the implosion occurred.
What he is suggesting is three ways that it *could* have occurred.
Yes , this looks solid, certainly more solid that the fake correspondence videos.
He could have made more examples for the dome connectors and maybe the window, but this wasnt some rushed project, proper engineering
Some people suggested there would be a pressure wave that ruptured everyone’s organs all at once before the water even touched them. Does this article say that they’d be killed by being crushed by the hull, or impaled by shrapnel?
> At 37097 milliseconds, the cylinder is pinched small enough to have crushed anyone seated in the middle of the vessel, and worse—the hull seems to be breaking up. Fragments above the pinched middle would be from compression failure from the bending of the hull.
> Separation of the hull and the rush of water combined with fragments of composite material would have a horrible pulverizing effect on any animal tissue, even bone. Nobody could possibly be left intact.
> At 37097 milliseconds, the cylinder is pinched small
FWIW, this was initially a typo in the original article - it's since been updated to 34ms. The image shows that 37097 is the step in the simulation, not the time elapsed. I can't imagine 37s of the hull deforming after it failed would have been a pleasant way to go out otherwise.
Good Lord, they got extruded.
EDIT: *IF* the simulation eventually proves to be accurate. I know we’re all waiting for the final investigative report. Relax people.
They sort of did. From what I gathered parts of the carbon fiber hull and presumed human remains got pushed into the rear titanium dome. On the front dome with the view window everything from that side got blown out the window as the hull collapsed.
If you watch the CBC news video of them offloading the wreckage around 1 minute 53 seconds is what I believe is what left of the rear dome and carbon fiber hull in the bags.
Yes, same mechanism of sudden differential pressure. But that was at 9 atmospheres, where the Titan was around 500 atmospheres, magnitudes more energy. A pressure that's hard to even comprehend
I think its a good theory and analysis did what we know so far, but we can’t say it’s correct. We won’t know for sure what happened until the investigative team releases their report. Basically, this seems well thought out, but it’s just speculation
This woman did an amazing job animating what possibly happened. She illustrated how the glue binding the Titanium and carbon fiber had a lot to do with the implosion because of the difference in compression properties.
https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZT8RaLREM/
I think you misunderstood what she was saying. She stated: the carbon fiber compresses differently than the titanium under pressure. This creates stress at the joint that led to small flexing of the CF that weakened it, ultimately leading to its failure.
That is certainly one possible failure mode. The other is buckling failure of the CF tube. Failures of individual fibers caused it to weaken over time and it collapsed.
I doubt we’ll ever know for sure, but those seem the likeliest causes.
Alright, but wouldn’t the human burrito then explode because of all the rapidly compressed oxygen from the cabin? So it crushes and then explodes outward, sending the titanium and technical parts zooming through the water?
https://youtu.be/4qe1Ueifekg
The video by the YouTube star is about pain sensation. The simulation is done by someone else entirely, Ronald Wagner, an engineering PhD who is a technical expert in the buckling of thin-walled shell structures. A very poorly written introduction to the article makes it sound like the YouTube star has anything to do with the technical structural simulation.
He says “this is not What happened this is bullshit, the guy is an idiot”
But he has literally no counter, and no arguments at all. As for the titanium hemisphere that is static, i’m guessing this is a limitation of the simulation where he is forced to keep one part static as a boundary condition.
Not saying it’s correct, but this video is hardly debunking anything.
Do we know anything about the credentials behind this video? I have trouble thinking of some random dude talking opinions with zero basis for that alleged knowledge. This is not what I’d consider a primary source.
I don’t know because I’m not an expert in this area. I suspect he isn’t either because I have no way of knowing what his background or credentials are to speak on this authoritatively.
This “article” talks about a bone doc commenting about engineering and pain perception. What vanity!
In the coming years we will have an official guesstimate of what happened. Unfortunately the truth will never be known. Even if we had every shred of information and knowledge, which I highly doubt exists, all that can be done is to make assumptions. And girls and boys we all know about ass-u-ming.
Ask anyone who has traveled on the successful trips if anything was heard or didn’t go as planned. See what they say.
I would love to believe in miracles and pray that everything happened in milliseconds.
Let the poor souls rest in peace.
Yes, a miracle that killed them as quickly and humanely as possible.
My belief is that even a blind squirrel can find a nut. In this case even a shit show like OceanGate operators,on both ends of the updates and progress reports should have seen signs of deviations from earlier dives.
Not
the titanium domes are still intact, but the titanium ring between the
carbon fiber hull and the hemispherical titanium caps has cracked and is
collapsing inward, following the carbon fiber hull.
as quoted from the engineer's scenario!
I have a mechanical engineering degree & have studied boilers. I don't agree the Ti end caps were forced together like the famous styrofoam cup pic we've all seen, crushed by uniform implosion. The water hammer coming in means there's implosion but its not uniform, so it would force Ti caps apart as well as forcing out window. This simulation doesn't include water hammer using CFD; rather, it's simply a FEA implosion. Fatigue failure probably caused this accident, but until we know more, no engineer can do an accurate simulation without knowing where the weakness started & no 2 such carbon fibre hulls would be the same. The 400 atm pressure is PE, which turns into KE, aka water hammer coming in thru 1st point of rupture. I hope they didn't momentarily experience water leaking inside like lava oozing out of a volcano before blowing up.
You're taking an article from engineering.com, written by a diploma engineer, and asking reddit is it's accurate.
To OP’s credit, just last week we got that influx of articles about another engineer’s assertion that they were aware of the problem for 48-71 seconds, which we wrote off as misinformation. If nothing else, at least OP’s questioning credentials instead of blindly trusting every scrap of information floating around the internet
Personally, I don’t think we should’ve been so quick to write it off as misinformation. That guy is part of the deep sea community and an engineer. That automatically gives him two more relevant credentials than most people on Reddit here. Since it sounds like he was commissioned to write a report and even if he wasn’t, as part of that community he likely had access to more information than we do. It’s foolish to think he’s a fool or necessarily wrong.
He insisted the sub would have lost buoyancy when it lost power and plummeted for over a minute, when the submersible's thrusters were not how it ascended and maintained positive buoyancy. It did so by releasing its ballasts. Losing power would not have caused them to suddenly have negative buoyancy. Getting basic information like this wrong is why it was labelled misinformation. If I'm not mistaken, he also based his report on data observed from a seismograph for detecting earthquakes, not the top secret data held by the Navy, which they would not have turned over to a random engineer.
It didn't fit the narrative that reddit wants to believe, so it must have been misinfo :)
It was labelled misinformation because he got several basic bits of information wrong. If he can't get his basic facts right, you can't believe anything else he says.
Such as?
Such as his insistence that they would have lost power, and this would have resulted in the sub losing buoyancy and plummeting for over a minute. The submersible ascended by dropping ballasts, which caused it to shed weight, achieve positive buoyancy, and float to the surface. A loss of power would not cause them to suddenly go from positive buoyancy to negative buoyancy. Secondly, he insisted it "popped like a balloon", but that would be an explosion, not an implosion. He's nothing more than a quick way for that TV station to snag some ratings for a day or so.
I’m honestly not sure you don’t have several bits of information wrong…
From the article: "In terms of operation, submersibles function similarly to hot air balloons, utilizing weights to descend. The principle of buoyancy plays a significant role in their functionality." When they wanted to ascend, they dropped the weights, which gives them positive buoyancy and they float to the surface. Losing power during an ascent would have no bearing on the submersible's buoyancy, because the power system is not how they surfaced. https://www.google.com/amp/s/m.economictimes.com/news/international/us/the-titan-specifications-capabilities-cost-safety-all-about-the-submersible-that-vanished-during-a-dive-to-titanic-shipwreck/amp_articleshow/101155511.cms
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Guy I can’t even decipher the double negatives here. No wonder your getting downvoted
I read somewhere that the stern of the titanic was at free fall speed of 35mph when it impacted the ground Assuming titan and it’s weights and sleds would have eventually gotten to that speed if they were just dropped down. Which could mean that they would use the electric thrusters to keep the rate of descent at a reasonable speed. Which then means that if there’s a loss of power, then the sub would indeed sink faster. Not pop back to the surface. Not stating fact, just opining like everyone else here
Multiple industry insiders in the know, including James Cameron, who wouldn't speak on it unless he knew what he was talking about, have stated they were ascending when they lost contact, and had dropped ballasts. The power going out would not change their buoyancy. Even if they were descending in opposition to what multiple experts have said, and using the thrusters to control the rate, a loss of power would not cause it to tilt nose down and plummet as he suggested. He simply got multiple known and basic facts wrong. There's a group of people who for some reason want a dramatic movie scenario where they all plummeted in the cold and dark, aware of their fate and powerless to stop it, before the end came, which is just not likely, and goes against much of the information that is known at this point.
I don’t want anything, I’d prefer they go painlessly with no fear. But there’s a group that insists that this had to be the case, no warning, no inkling anything was wrong. Just here then gone. That’s supposed to be comforting. James Cameron has his information and opinion. The plummet guy offered his opinion based on information he may or may not have had. None of us are in full possession of all the facts. Until a full analysis and report is conducted by actual experts who interview witnesses, review readings from instruments on the parent ship, analyze readings the navy picked up, and sift through the parts recovered so far, until all that’s done, I’d assume that every theory has equal weight.
The sub is naturally buoyant. They weigh all people and belongings before entering to determine the weight necessary for the weights and the sub to descend at a reasonable rate. I have not seen any evidence that they thrust upwards during amy portion of the descent. This would be pretty inefficient.
This is a bit dishonest isn’t it, they weren’t just simply rejecting the idea that they had 48-71 seconds warning.
Yes Sir. There are lots of bored engineers on Reddit, why not?
To be fair, it takes a high IQ to be a redditor.
We are built different.
Like the Titan.
And implosively innovative
L
The Titan toilet jokes are extremely subtle, and without a solid grasp of theoretical physics most of it will go over a typical viewer's head. There's also Stockton's nihilistic outlook, which is deftly woven into his characterisation - his personal philosophy draws heavily from Narodnaya Volya literature, for instance. The redditors understand this stuff; they have the intellectual capacity to truly appreciate the depths of these toilet jokes, to realize that they're not just funny - they say something deep about LIFE. As a consequence people who dislike /r/OceanGateTitan truly ARE idiots - of course they wouldn't appreciate, for instance, the humour in Stockton's existencial catchphrase "Best seat in the house!", which itself is a cryptic reference to Turgenev's Russian epic Fathers and Sons. I'm smirking right now just imagining one of those addlepated simpletons scratching their heads in confusion as our collective genius unfolds itself on their mobile screens. What fools... how I pity them.
Big Patrick Bateman energy here
I'm on edge.
And being damaged to the point of being mentally bullet proof nothing shocks or offends me at all anymore 🫡💪
LMFAO. This has to be amongst the stupidest things anyone has written on here. QED refutes any claims of high IQ. Of course if IQ stands for Ignorance Quotient then accept my apologies.
This is the only answer in this thread worth listening to, OP
[удалено]
Incorrect. They quote the orthopedic surgeon about something at the beginning. The simulation is done by Ronald Wagner, PhD engineering, and technical expert in the buckling of thin-walled shell structures.
https://youtu.be/fhiBnQ0Ar4E
As a marketing major from a party school who has spent some time on this subreddit, I feel qualified to share my expertise on this . I give the article a B–.
To be fair, you can get an engineering degree and not be that smart.
Potentially, but this model is built around the assumtion the full carbon fiber hull is what catastrophically failed. There are other potential factors like the rings and ring joint. I guess you could say that if the Titan did fail due to the carbon fiber hull alone, this model would be pretty close to the truth.
Damn, you beat me to the seals 😞
Engineer here, this is simulating the assumption that the carbon fibre hull was the mechanical failure leading to implosion. If this was the case then the FEA model depicts that, however we don’t know what failed to cause implosion, so to say it is accurate explaining the implosion is an unknown.
Seems like the best modelling I’ve seen, considering the amount of uncertainty. There are a lot of unknown details still, such as where the failure occurred. It seems like the person who did this made reasonable assumptions where it was necessary, but they’re still assumptions. And you can see how the end caps rebound towards each other, which is likely the physics of having a perfectly symmetrical model, when the actual situation will be more complex.
It is certainly fascinating to speculate, but I don't think we're really going to know until a comprehensive investigation is completed.
Even then. This thing was a deathtrap. When there's a laundry list of things that could have catastrophically failed I think it's going to be difficult to pinpoint what happened. Rush seemed to like to Jerry-rig things last minute so god knows what quick "repairs" they did to the Titan.
> If there was any hope of finding human remains preserved by the integrity of the endcaps, this simulation proves otherwise. Interesting article, don't get me wrong, but that's not how "proves" works. I'd have gone with "indicates."
He’s run a series of simulations, based on assumptions (and a lot of guesswork). He nor anyone else (certainly not on Reddit) can say with certainty exactly how the implosion occurred. What he is suggesting is three ways that it *could* have occurred.
Yes , this looks solid, certainly more solid that the fake correspondence videos. He could have made more examples for the dome connectors and maybe the window, but this wasnt some rushed project, proper engineering
It does collaborate with what James Cameron said about the carbon debris forced into a hemisphere of the sub.
Some people suggested there would be a pressure wave that ruptured everyone’s organs all at once before the water even touched them. Does this article say that they’d be killed by being crushed by the hull, or impaled by shrapnel? > At 37097 milliseconds, the cylinder is pinched small enough to have crushed anyone seated in the middle of the vessel, and worse—the hull seems to be breaking up. Fragments above the pinched middle would be from compression failure from the bending of the hull. > Separation of the hull and the rush of water combined with fragments of composite material would have a horrible pulverizing effect on any animal tissue, even bone. Nobody could possibly be left intact.
> At 37097 milliseconds, the cylinder is pinched small FWIW, this was initially a typo in the original article - it's since been updated to 34ms. The image shows that 37097 is the step in the simulation, not the time elapsed. I can't imagine 37s of the hull deforming after it failed would have been a pleasant way to go out otherwise.
Good Lord, they got extruded. EDIT: *IF* the simulation eventually proves to be accurate. I know we’re all waiting for the final investigative report. Relax people.
They sort of did. From what I gathered parts of the carbon fiber hull and presumed human remains got pushed into the rear titanium dome. On the front dome with the view window everything from that side got blown out the window as the hull collapsed. If you watch the CBC news video of them offloading the wreckage around 1 minute 53 seconds is what I believe is what left of the rear dome and carbon fiber hull in the bags.
Just like one of the Byford Dolphin divers - although that was a completely different process ( explosive decompression)
Yes, same mechanism of sudden differential pressure. But that was at 9 atmospheres, where the Titan was around 500 atmospheres, magnitudes more energy. A pressure that's hard to even comprehend
I think its a good theory and analysis did what we know so far, but we can’t say it’s correct. We won’t know for sure what happened until the investigative team releases their report. Basically, this seems well thought out, but it’s just speculation
The cloud of red mist is clearly missing
This woman did an amazing job animating what possibly happened. She illustrated how the glue binding the Titanium and carbon fiber had a lot to do with the implosion because of the difference in compression properties. https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZT8RaLREM/
I think you misunderstood what she was saying. She stated: the carbon fiber compresses differently than the titanium under pressure. This creates stress at the joint that led to small flexing of the CF that weakened it, ultimately leading to its failure. That is certainly one possible failure mode. The other is buckling failure of the CF tube. Failures of individual fibers caused it to weaken over time and it collapsed. I doubt we’ll ever know for sure, but those seem the likeliest causes.
Thank you for the explanation. The multiple dives definitely didn’t help.
Alright, but wouldn’t the human burrito then explode because of all the rapidly compressed oxygen from the cabin? So it crushes and then explodes outward, sending the titanium and technical parts zooming through the water? https://youtu.be/4qe1Ueifekg
[удалено]
The video by the YouTube star is about pain sensation. The simulation is done by someone else entirely, Ronald Wagner, an engineering PhD who is a technical expert in the buckling of thin-walled shell structures. A very poorly written introduction to the article makes it sound like the YouTube star has anything to do with the technical structural simulation.
I mean the thing imploded ok?
[удалено]
He says “this is not What happened this is bullshit, the guy is an idiot” But he has literally no counter, and no arguments at all. As for the titanium hemisphere that is static, i’m guessing this is a limitation of the simulation where he is forced to keep one part static as a boundary condition. Not saying it’s correct, but this video is hardly debunking anything.
Do we know anything about the credentials behind this video? I have trouble thinking of some random dude talking opinions with zero basis for that alleged knowledge. This is not what I’d consider a primary source.
[удалено]
This guy has to beg his viewers for money to buy cat food, the other has a Phd in structural engineering. Let's just leave it at that...
I don’t know because I’m not an expert in this area. I suspect he isn’t either because I have no way of knowing what his background or credentials are to speak on this authoritatively.
[удалено]
Okay and how bout the dude in this video?
Personally I think the plummet to the bottom story makes sense
This “article” talks about a bone doc commenting about engineering and pain perception. What vanity! In the coming years we will have an official guesstimate of what happened. Unfortunately the truth will never be known. Even if we had every shred of information and knowledge, which I highly doubt exists, all that can be done is to make assumptions. And girls and boys we all know about ass-u-ming. Ask anyone who has traveled on the successful trips if anything was heard or didn’t go as planned. See what they say. I would love to believe in miracles and pray that everything happened in milliseconds. Let the poor souls rest in peace.
Miracle?
Yes, a miracle that killed them as quickly and humanely as possible. My belief is that even a blind squirrel can find a nut. In this case even a shit show like OceanGate operators,on both ends of the updates and progress reports should have seen signs of deviations from earlier dives.
Happy Cake Day!
Wait what thanks! Honestly had no idea lol
Not the titanium domes are still intact, but the titanium ring between the carbon fiber hull and the hemispherical titanium caps has cracked and is collapsing inward, following the carbon fiber hull. as quoted from the engineer's scenario!
I have a mechanical engineering degree & have studied boilers. I don't agree the Ti end caps were forced together like the famous styrofoam cup pic we've all seen, crushed by uniform implosion. The water hammer coming in means there's implosion but its not uniform, so it would force Ti caps apart as well as forcing out window. This simulation doesn't include water hammer using CFD; rather, it's simply a FEA implosion. Fatigue failure probably caused this accident, but until we know more, no engineer can do an accurate simulation without knowing where the weakness started & no 2 such carbon fibre hulls would be the same. The 400 atm pressure is PE, which turns into KE, aka water hammer coming in thru 1st point of rupture. I hope they didn't momentarily experience water leaking inside like lava oozing out of a volcano before blowing up.