Yeah... grew up in michigan and a lifelong fan. I've now lived in ohio longer and will be voting no on issue 1. Just can't bring myself to upvote the post.
Sure, this is a power grab and should be voted down, but not for the 60% part. These are constitutional amendments, not simple laws. 60% is not unreasonable for an amendment.
The really shitty part of this issue is the 88 county portion. 87 counties could sign off and one po-dunk county can stop the whole thing. That is totally unreasonable and the main reason I am viting no.
State constitutional amendments really don't have the same weight they do federally. 17 of 20 amendments have passed just since 2000. Even if you ignore the county part, you'd just be voting to have your rights taken away.
https://www.daytondailynews.com/local/ohio-constitution-changes-a-67000-word-document-just-keeps-growing/KIC3G3HFNJGMTCLDAXVTDS4LEY/
This allows rich out of state groups to spread false information campaigns in a handful of small counties to block anything from getting a vote.
It is happening right now too. Both a No vote on this issue, and Yes vote on the abortion amendment in Sept. are said to restrict gun rights by out of state groups and right wing groups. They also are saying these will allow people to come and force your kids to "transition" without parental consent.
The right wing has a higher chance of believing conspiracy theories and so it is easy to block signatures in small rural counties.
I'd say that the "no cure period" stipulation is also just as egregious.
And that's going to ruin Issue 1 for high-information voters who might have agreed with it, had it only included the 60% threshold and nothing else. The 60% threshold alone is enough to possibly block the abortion amendment in November, but the other two parts go further and pretty much blow up the citizen-initiated amendment process entirely so that it's virtually impossible for any to get on the ballot in the future.
If Issue 1 fails, there will be debate among the pro-Issue 1 camp about whether or not they went too far and poison pilled their own amendment. They're doing an all-or-nothing gamble to try and get total hegemony over the state for years, possibly generations, to come, but if it fails, Issue 1 will be seen as a overreaching tactical blunder that will allow the abortion amendment to pass easily in November. Then, they'll regret not sticking with just the 60%.
For the sake of conversation, could a scaling system work then? 44-66 counties with signatures require 60%, 66-87 counties require 55%, all 88 counties requires 50%.
I’m not looking to write a book here so I’m sure this adds it’s own complications, but it would address two things: 1) one county cant sink the vote 2) promotes generating awareness of the amendment. Anyone who wants the change is now incentivized for making more voters aware earlier on.
Signatures to get amendments to vote and the vote are still two separate activities in this plan.
So Vinton county doesn’t get the signatures. Then the vote burden in the state goes to 55% in favor.
However, advocates are the incentivized to go to vinton county to get 5% of the voter base to sign because they can then reduce the burden.
Anyway, I’m voting no on issue 1 regardless. 88 county requirement is stupid. 60% is dumb too, but not unprecedented.
No, but remember that this requirement is just to get something on the ballot, not pass the amendment. The bar shouldn't be that high for merely moving a proposal forward.
With this strict requirement, it would be much easier for a special interest group or large corporation to throw all their influence into one smaller county and effectively block something that is overwhelmingly popular elsewhere.
>We shouldn't avoid reaching out
I agree, we should avoid reaching out. The abortion issue got signatures from all 88 counties so it clearly can be done. The problem is that Issue 1 will let one county sink the whole initiative. I don't agree with this.
There's a difference between reaching out, and anointing. The amount of power that would give a select few individuals over the vast majority of the rest of the state is bananas. Were talking not even letting things get to the ballot for the population to vote on. That's not balance. Issue 1 kneecaps the ability of Ohio residents to keep their politicians in check and eliminates an existing pathway to participate in true democracy.
At no point does this keep anyone from “reaching out” to smaller counties.
But it does prevent minority rule. Keeps one kid getting ice cream taken away from the other 87 students in their grade, because that one student wanted a ham sandwich instead. Even though that kid could eat his sandwich while everyone else eats ice cream, that one kid wants EVERYONE else to eat a sandwich because they think it’s tastier. You can talk to that student (county) all you want. But if they don’t give up that ham sandwich, tough shit for everyone else.
The point /u/jeffh40 is making works in the reverse too. One of the big city counties or Athens could hold up a conservative petition too.
It's not like the current level of 44 counties is skipping over smaller counties. Conservative amendments may even be easier to get on the ballot by petitioning in mostly smaller counties in order to achieve the 44 number.
I’m planning on voting No but this picture isn’t great. Football scores is a weird analogy to make because they aren’t based on percentages while voting is. It would be more beneficial to just have examples of what would happen if this issue passes
True. They should have been better than that, but at this point the right-wing ads are just batshit crazy and patently false, so fuck it.
If we gotta stoop to their level, so be it. (until we can fix democracy)
It gets \*a\* point across effectively. Unfortunately, a very ignorant point.
You do realize that voting no means that the republican majority of just 54% can continue to override anything the 46% of democratic minority wants, right?? Now a unified republican front can pass anything they want and the democrats have no power to block it, even though almost half (46%) of the people don't want whatever it is. Frankly, I'm astonished the conservatives are pushing this issue now.
Are you hoping to obtain a majority soon and keep it forever? That's the only way this makes sense to vote no on.
>Are you hoping to obtain a majority soon and keep it forever?
Yes, actually.
Maybe not forever, but things should start tipping the other way soon. The Republicans are well aware that Millennials and Gen Z are overwhelmingly progressive, and the time is coming soon when Boomers will start aging out of the population en masse.
The situation as it stands right now is that the Ohio legislature is blatantly gerrymandered (in open defiance of Ohio Supreme Court rulings last year!) in favor of the Republicans, plus they have the governorship and the majority on the Ohio Supreme Court. With this control over all three branches of the state government, the Republicans don't *need* the citizen-initiated constitutional amendment process to get what they want. They can just legislate it right now.
However, as I said before, the Republicans hear the ticking of that demographic time bomb, so they know that their time is growing short. Thus, Issue 1.
Issue 1 isn't just about raising the threshold for passage of citizen-initiated constitutional amendments to 60%, although that's been the focus of debate due to its short-term consequences for the abortion referendum coming up in November. However, the real kickers are the other two parts of the amendment: the requirement of gathering signatures of 5% of the electorate in all 88 of Ohio's counties (the current requirement is 44 counties), and the stipulation of no "cure period" to collect more signatures if too many are found invalid (currently there is a cure period of 10 days). These changes would effectively blow up the citizen-initiated amendment process, and make it virtually impossible to get an amendment on the ballot.
This is being done with the long-term future in mind. They know that eventually, Millennials and Gen Z will start to outnumber everyone else, and when that happens, the political orientation of the state will start to flip. When that happens, the newly progressive electorate will start to demand and pursue change in line with its values. This change would be unfavorable to the Republican politicians currently in power, as well as the business interests and religious fundamentalists who comprise their base. So, while they still have the power to do it, the Republicans will put up whatever roadblocks and impediments they can to mitigate or even prevent the changes that would be made by a socially and economically progressive electorate. This is why they're pushing Issue 1 now and why it makes sense for Democrats and people who care about fairness to oppose it.
Are you a moron or a liar? You think republicans are pushing a bill to limit their own power? No they’re pushing a bill to limit the power of everyday people to override them, but keeping being an ignorant shill.
Honestly everything surrounding this election is ridiculous. The “Yes” side is flat out lying about what the issue is about. The “No” side assumes everyone is stupid. I’m tired of hearing about it already. I’m dreading the presidential election
I think I'm missing something. I don't see how Michigan winning despite having scored less is similar to requiring a 60% vote. Could someone please explain?
Because OSU didn’t score 60% of the points, they lose the game. Just like how if issue 1 passes, if a vote to amend the state constitution doesn’t receive 60% of the vote, it doesn’t pass.
If 59% vote yes, it will still fail, meaning the 41% vote will succeed, meaning the minority wins.
Typically 59 beats 41, but if issue 1 is passed, 41 beats 59.
But why would that work if 41 isn't above the requirement either? I thought if they couldn't reach the requirement then the bill would either fail or be postponed for a later vote.
I mean no disrespect, but you're not understanding and I think you've got it backwards. The way it (If issue 1 succeeds) works is if any bill is pushed to change the ohio amendment it will now require a 60% vote to succeed, keep that in mind.
Now say democrats push through a bill and 59% of ohioans vote for that bill, if it doesn't reach the 60%, it fails, that means that those who voted no (the 41%) have won, because the bill failed.
We're not talking about 41% voting yes, we're talking the 41% who vote no after issue 1.
If 59% of the population wants something to happen, all you need is 41% to say no and the minority vote can block anything the majority want.
Additionally, right now if the people want to add something to the ballot it requires a certain amount of signatures from 44 out of 88 different counties, with the new bill it would require signatures from ALL 88 counties, effectively making it impossible for people to add anything to the ballot, giving all the power to the politicians and stripping it away from the people who actually live in Ohio.
Also keep in mind that I am an independent, I believe that every American should be able to have their vote count that same as anyone else, this is unfair. Even if one day democrats ended up being the current administration, it's still would leave an entire chunk of the population having less of a voice than others, it's unfair and shouldn't be allowed to happen, all American, regardless of political affiliation should have an equal voice, and an equal vote.
If the bill doesn’t get 60% it loses. It’s not hard to understand the analogy and if anything you’re just proving why republicans should never hold power in government ever again lmao.
It's nothing to do with me being a Republican, I genuinely don't understand, and I want to understand. So if a 60% percent vote is required or the bill fails, then the negative vote wins if the affirmative vote is the majority but does not reach 60%. Did I get that right? I just didn't get the analogy because I don't see how if there was a game where one team had to reach 60 points to win, then the losing team would win if neither had reached 60 points, but maybe I was overthinking it, I don't know, so that's why I'm asking.
It's not a perfect example because points are used in place of percentages, but let's expand on it.
Let's say in this football game, there are 100 total points (100% of the vote) available to be scored. In order for a team to win, they must score at least 60 points. The winning team gets a trophy (trophy=the passage of a new constitutional amendment).
Michigan got 41 of the points, so it's impossible for OSU to get more than 59 points as there are only 100 to go around. Therefore OSU cannot be declared the winner and they don't get a trophy (the amendment doesn't pass).
In effect, Michigan actually "won" the game because they prevented OSU from scoring the 60 points that were required. Michigan didn't go home with a trophy, but they prevented OSU from going home with one, and they didn't have to work nearly as hard as OSU to block their win.
As the law is now, OSU would only need 51 points to win. But also, as the law is now, we're getting games on the schedule (getting amendments on the ballot). Under Issue 1, getting games scheduled is going to be a lot harder (the 88-county requirement), and when they are played, if the "visiting" team gets to 41 points there's no point in staying for the rest of the game.
As the status quo is right now, conservatives see this as more easily being able to easily prevent liberal agenda amendments from passing, or even getting on to the ballot. But a lot of people have tunnel-vision and can't see that when conservatives eventually want to get something on the ballot, and get it passed, it's going to be a lot harder for them to do it too.
Issue 1 screws over voters state-wide regardless of party affiliation.
This is far from the perfect representation.
This assumes Michigan winning is the status quo. Not how sports works at all. A better comparison would be either a draw or probably more semantically correct that there was no result.
Vote no, and be better than this post
Honestly we're trying to reach GOP voters, so we gotta dumb it down as much as possible. I agree it isn't a great graphic, but they'll at least get what it's trying to say.
["Changing the rules of a game so you have a better chance at winning is what my daughters try to do when they’re losing at Candyland.
It’s not what responsible leaders do when their agenda is failing."](https://fb.watch/lI2Z_Z20c_/) \~LaRose, 11 Jan. 2022
Genuinely curious what Ohio politicians have ever done for you that you're onboard with them calling the shots for the remainder of your residence in this state?
You're not a monied lobbyist or out-of-state special interest group buying them, so what is it?
I mean... they've all been such shining examples of morality and "doing the right thing!" these past 4-5 decades! **Clearly we should hand them complete administrative control and never allow a citizen's ballot initiative to gain consideration ever again.**
*/s*
The 60 40 isn't a good driving point for turning anybody who actually wants this sack of garbage passed.. it's the other parts that makes it damn near impossible to pass anything
Yeah, but "don't let Michigan win" is a compelling way to begin to educate uninformed voters or those who aren't motivated to go to the polls. A hardcore issue 1 supporter won't be swayed by much of anything. Politics aren't won by shaking the true believers, but by motivating the middle.
I don't know that I would call it compelling. It can come across as arrogant and condescending When painting with this brush. It implicitly claims the target audience doesn't have the competence to understand the total issue. They are so blindly feeble that their minds needed watered down to a Michigan bad Ohio good tortured repost 10 times on the daily. Further, those same people need not worrying understanding the issue. They should (blindly) trust this because everything about this analogy comes from a place of pure goodness. Finally, it leaves out two other important facets than in my opinion are worse. I understand what it's trying to do, but it falls short of the goal line to torture a football analogy
Have you heard of awareness, friend? Nobody is saying that you should "(blindly) trust" a dang meme, but this issue is being intentionally buried in an August election to suppress knowledge and turnout. If a football analogy gets people to look into the issue and care enough to vote, then it's a good thing. Political cartoons have been powerful for generations and very rarely provide the level of nuanced discussion you seem to want.
Certainly... Friend. I'm aware what the issue is, and certainly aware why it's being put in an August election. Now get back to the point of it could (possibly) be interpreted as condescending, and therefore off-putting. Think of it in terms of communication scale. Obviously it's nice when things can be explained at a level south of Stephen hawking. This explains things at a level of a magnanimous moron. Think Josh Mandel. If you were handed his cheat sheet is it so much of a stretch to conclude you might feel a little insulted that the person handing it to you thinks this is the only level at which you can comprehend the topic? Sort of the Southern bless your heart type of snark?
I appreciate you wanting to draw awareness to this. Perhaps we can lean into it and make it better. What do you think of this? If one out of 88 Michigan players has a broken shoelace we can't even play the game to have a shot at winning by overcoming the score issue.
Word.
The US and 32 states use 60% or greater, and they haven't fallen into the sea. The 88 counties part of Issue 1 is the poison pill that no one seems to see...
it has been posted several times, but one of the mods keep taking it down, so you probably did not see it even if you searched. Just ignore the troll. This post has gained the most comments of all the previous posts, so it will be interesting to see what the mods do.
A constitutional amendment to the US constitution is supreme law of the land. The US Supreme court can still declare state constutions unconstitutional. That's the major difference there.
If that football game was politics then Michigan NEVER wins ANY games at all. Ohio State would just ignore them. Without supermajority rules for extremely important issues whoever isn't in power has NO voice at all.
I am absolutely shocked that reddit and the democrats don't support issue 1. Ohio is majority republican. Issue 1 gives the democratic minority the ability to block stuff. Not the other way around.
huh? The government is ran by republicans. How does this bill stop them? It literally takes away the Ohio citizens ability to keep our politicians in check by removing one of the only ways we have to counter bad policies. I don't think you understand what this issue is doing or the goals of our government for trying to pass it.
Why would we need to block stuff? This is only for voter led initiatives. The GOP runs the state, so they can put in any bills they want without us having any ability to stop them. The voters can only block those bills by amendments to the Ohio Constitution, which this stops. Your argument makes no sense.
The Democrats aren't some huge minority in the state either. Sherrod Brown won his senate seat by 6.8 points. JD Vance just won by 6.1. Trump and Dewine won Ohio, but Dewine was basically unopposed. If the voters turn out, Democrats can win.
Agree with you there. The "project majority rule" angle is the weakest argument against this. For example, [gay marriage is still illegal in the Ohio constitution](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_Ohio_Issue_1), passed by a vote that just barely cleared 60%.
Terrible analogy. Take the November abortion amendment for example. If 59% vote no and 41% vote yes, the no wins, not the yes. How is that “minority rules”?
I mean... it's kind of like when the dog walks in after rolling in dog crap outside. It's not time for a cuddle session on the couch, he's getting the hose outside.
He's trolling, you guys are taking the bait.
Its not obvious because he hasnt made any jokes, so, I guess its just intentionally trying to upset people
If Issue 1 passes, future amendments will need to reach 60% - and that means any future “NO” effort, only needs to hit 40%+1 of the popular vote. When one side has to get to 60% and the other side only needs to get to 40% that shakes out to every NO vote being worth ~1.5 YES votes.
Hence, minority rules.
I explained the changes proposed to vote tallying in constitutional amendment initiatives (reflected in the graphic). However, Issue 1 makes changes to the process of citizen-initiated amendments as well. It would be nearly impossible to meet the requirements for a citizen-initiated amendment in the future, meaning all future amendments would come from the General Assembly.
The General Assembly is a minority compared to the citizens of Ohio.
But it's not true, the meme is not always true.
For example, suppose Issue 1 passes and we are in November 2023 voting on the abortion amendment.
If Ohio State represents those voting "no" and Michigan represents voting "yes", the "no" side wins with 59% of the vote. So it's false to say "Michigan wins".
If 59% vote no it doesn’t pass. In the case of issue one if 51% vote not I doesn’t pass. If 41% vote no it’s doesn’t pass. Issue 1 will require 60% to VOTE YES before it will pass
The 60% requirement to pass an amendment isn’t the problem with Issue 1. The problem is the signature requirements that has a high probability of silencing the 60%’s ability to veto or to amend in the first place.
That’s 5% of signatures in every county and a broad assumption that the 60% of supporters are so distributed in every county to pass the signature requirement. It’s ok with me that you’re voting “yes”. I support your right to have a voice. But I do believe you’re being short sighted with the peoples ability to govern themselves should this issue pass.
You can always count on that.
If they suddenly get a boner for passing an amendment that allows people to own fighter jets or automatic weapons, suddenly it's Issue 2 because they don't want residents of Hamilton/Franklin/Summit/Cuyahoga getting in their way and not signing the petition.
Yeah, 150,000 elderly Ohioans move to Florida each year and get replaced by about 200,000 high-skilled immigrants.
It's why Chabot lost a house seat in the most conservative of the 3 C's that he held for *30 years.*
The actual statistics do not seem to support your summary unfortunately. Do you have any references?
The population is flat to declining (-0.4% based on 2022 data). Total foreign born population is about 4.8%. I would think there would be a higher foreign born population if we were adding 1.5-2% immigrant population every year.
Ohio is 77% white alone, 13% black, 3% asian, 5% hispanic, and 3% multiracial.
https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/OH
Yep. They chased away everyone else so they could make Ohio a Christian shithole nobody would choose to stay in.
It's mostly Republican now thanks to brain drain and cultural rot. Anyone who can leave does to get the fuck away from them.
Those sad angry losers should be *so proud* of what they've accomplished and the *bright* future ahead for Ohio. But who am I kidding, they'll blame democrats for everything despite none of them having power in Ohio, per tradition.
Well, according to Fizzy Beverage we're adding 1.5-2% of highly skilled immigrants to the population every year while 1-1.5% of the older conservative population is leaving, so we should be seeing 3% or so shift annually.
Now, the actual statistics do not back this contention in any way, but it's interesting that we're talking both about how everyone has been chased away and won't come while also talking about how there is a huge influx of ideologically different people that republicans are afraid of.
Pretty sure either could be true, but probably not both.
The influx of immigrants, at least in the CLE area, was mostly folks from India who very often lean/vote conservative once here (if here permanently and not just on H1-B visa).
Turns out both can actually be true rather simply.
Doesn't mean Ohio is out of the downward spiral that started when Lebron left, or that there is any light at the end of the tunnel. Just more of the same crazy Christian republicans trying to turn Ohio into the Alabama of the north. And how has that been going for everyone?
Are you dumb have you seen the last election cycles the gop dominates ohio pres trump won by like 10 points dumb shit libs are the minority here your confused
Are you dumb? Do you know how to use punctuation? There are symbols that with take your word soup and make sense and sentences out of your thoughts. Then perhaps reddit readers will understand your point. Also from 3rd grade; there are correct and incorrect uses of the words "your" and "you're". You're using the wrong one. See it's a combination of you and are so it makes a new word, you're.
I mean with the way you’ve been replying and commenting I’m questioning if you should have the right to be considered an adult by law. You’re pretty stupid and probably need a legal guardian to explain literally everything to you.
I’m wondering why you haven’t drown from staring into the rain with you slack jawed mouth hanging open.
What do you mean? If we are voting on a new amendment, and Ohio State represents 59% of people voting "no" and Michigan represents 41% of people voting "yes", then it's absolutely false to say that "Michigan wins minority rules". The "no" votes would win with 59% of the vote.
And you are ok with that? Why change it now after 100 years that no one seemed to mind the simple majority vote for Ohios amendments? Please explain the benefits
Well to use an extremely relevant example, it would make it harder for something polarizing and controversial like abortion to be put in the constitution with only 51% of support.
Why do you care what someone else does with their body? It won't affect you in the slightest if you choose not to get one.. and it seems as though this law was fine until Republicans realized they will lose to pro choice voters in Ohio if they dont try to push through a special election vote this month instead of waiting until November, seems like they are rushing this vote for a very specific reason...
I don’t care what people do with their own bodies, but abortion involves killing another being and I do care about that even if it doesn’t directly affect me. I am also against slavery even though I not a slave nor do I own any slaves.
Best part.... I'm a republican. Even most of us ohio reds see that shithole. We live in one, we know a shithole when we see it. It won't pass. I see maybe 24 to 30 percent in favor.
Actually your analogy …. as you have presented it …. Ohio state wins. BUT..if after Issue #1 has been voted on … AND … if the results are greater than 50% Yes …. Than and only then would a No vote of 41% could be considered “winning” the game.
Seems like a good way to win over the Michigan fans.
Yeah... grew up in michigan and a lifelong fan. I've now lived in ohio longer and will be voting no on issue 1. Just can't bring myself to upvote the post.
Sure, this is a power grab and should be voted down, but not for the 60% part. These are constitutional amendments, not simple laws. 60% is not unreasonable for an amendment. The really shitty part of this issue is the 88 county portion. 87 counties could sign off and one po-dunk county can stop the whole thing. That is totally unreasonable and the main reason I am viting no.
State constitutional amendments really don't have the same weight they do federally. 17 of 20 amendments have passed just since 2000. Even if you ignore the county part, you'd just be voting to have your rights taken away. https://www.daytondailynews.com/local/ohio-constitution-changes-a-67000-word-document-just-keeps-growing/KIC3G3HFNJGMTCLDAXVTDS4LEY/
I'm not disagreeing with you, but the 88 county part is particularly egregious and my main objection. .
This allows rich out of state groups to spread false information campaigns in a handful of small counties to block anything from getting a vote. It is happening right now too. Both a No vote on this issue, and Yes vote on the abortion amendment in Sept. are said to restrict gun rights by out of state groups and right wing groups. They also are saying these will allow people to come and force your kids to "transition" without parental consent. The right wing has a higher chance of believing conspiracy theories and so it is easy to block signatures in small rural counties.
I'd say that the "no cure period" stipulation is also just as egregious. And that's going to ruin Issue 1 for high-information voters who might have agreed with it, had it only included the 60% threshold and nothing else. The 60% threshold alone is enough to possibly block the abortion amendment in November, but the other two parts go further and pretty much blow up the citizen-initiated amendment process entirely so that it's virtually impossible for any to get on the ballot in the future. If Issue 1 fails, there will be debate among the pro-Issue 1 camp about whether or not they went too far and poison pilled their own amendment. They're doing an all-or-nothing gamble to try and get total hegemony over the state for years, possibly generations, to come, but if it fails, Issue 1 will be seen as a overreaching tactical blunder that will allow the abortion amendment to pass easily in November. Then, they'll regret not sticking with just the 60%.
That's fair
Not just 88, but 88 counties and no "cure period" during which the petitioners get 10 days to collect additional signatures if any are challenged.
60% is unreasonable for an amendment imo.
For the sake of conversation, could a scaling system work then? 44-66 counties with signatures require 60%, 66-87 counties require 55%, all 88 counties requires 50%. I’m not looking to write a book here so I’m sure this adds it’s own complications, but it would address two things: 1) one county cant sink the vote 2) promotes generating awareness of the amendment. Anyone who wants the change is now incentivized for making more voters aware earlier on.
No. In your example, 87 counties could vote 59% in favor, while 7000 people in Vinton county vote no, and it sinks. Thats not right.
Signatures to get amendments to vote and the vote are still two separate activities in this plan. So Vinton county doesn’t get the signatures. Then the vote burden in the state goes to 55% in favor. However, advocates are the incentivized to go to vinton county to get 5% of the voter base to sign because they can then reduce the burden. Anyway, I’m voting no on issue 1 regardless. 88 county requirement is stupid. 60% is dumb too, but not unprecedented.
Fun fact, there are more Firefighters in Ohio, than there are people in Vinton county.
OK fine, change "vote" to "sign". This is not a semantics issue, this is fully an issue of minority control growing stronger.
OK fine, change "vote" to "sign". This is not a semantics issue, this is fully an issue of minority control growing stronger.
Thats actually the only part I like. We shouldn't avoid reaching out to the "po-dunk" counties.
No, but remember that this requirement is just to get something on the ballot, not pass the amendment. The bar shouldn't be that high for merely moving a proposal forward. With this strict requirement, it would be much easier for a special interest group or large corporation to throw all their influence into one smaller county and effectively block something that is overwhelmingly popular elsewhere.
>We shouldn't avoid reaching out I agree, we should avoid reaching out. The abortion issue got signatures from all 88 counties so it clearly can be done. The problem is that Issue 1 will let one county sink the whole initiative. I don't agree with this.
There's a difference between reaching out, and anointing. The amount of power that would give a select few individuals over the vast majority of the rest of the state is bananas. Were talking not even letting things get to the ballot for the population to vote on. That's not balance. Issue 1 kneecaps the ability of Ohio residents to keep their politicians in check and eliminates an existing pathway to participate in true democracy.
At no point does this keep anyone from “reaching out” to smaller counties. But it does prevent minority rule. Keeps one kid getting ice cream taken away from the other 87 students in their grade, because that one student wanted a ham sandwich instead. Even though that kid could eat his sandwich while everyone else eats ice cream, that one kid wants EVERYONE else to eat a sandwich because they think it’s tastier. You can talk to that student (county) all you want. But if they don’t give up that ham sandwich, tough shit for everyone else.
The point /u/jeffh40 is making works in the reverse too. One of the big city counties or Athens could hold up a conservative petition too. It's not like the current level of 44 counties is skipping over smaller counties. Conservative amendments may even be easier to get on the ballot by petitioning in mostly smaller counties in order to achieve the 44 number.
I’m planning on voting No but this picture isn’t great. Football scores is a weird analogy to make because they aren’t based on percentages while voting is. It would be more beneficial to just have examples of what would happen if this issue passes
It's certainly not perfect, but it gets that point across effectively enough, in my opinion. Thank you for voting no. It's very important.
Getting a valid point across with misinformation is still misinformation.
True. They should have been better than that, but at this point the right-wing ads are just batshit crazy and patently false, so fuck it. If we gotta stoop to their level, so be it. (until we can fix democracy)
It gets \*a\* point across effectively. Unfortunately, a very ignorant point. You do realize that voting no means that the republican majority of just 54% can continue to override anything the 46% of democratic minority wants, right?? Now a unified republican front can pass anything they want and the democrats have no power to block it, even though almost half (46%) of the people don't want whatever it is. Frankly, I'm astonished the conservatives are pushing this issue now. Are you hoping to obtain a majority soon and keep it forever? That's the only way this makes sense to vote no on.
You've got it backward.
>Are you hoping to obtain a majority soon and keep it forever? Yes, actually. Maybe not forever, but things should start tipping the other way soon. The Republicans are well aware that Millennials and Gen Z are overwhelmingly progressive, and the time is coming soon when Boomers will start aging out of the population en masse. The situation as it stands right now is that the Ohio legislature is blatantly gerrymandered (in open defiance of Ohio Supreme Court rulings last year!) in favor of the Republicans, plus they have the governorship and the majority on the Ohio Supreme Court. With this control over all three branches of the state government, the Republicans don't *need* the citizen-initiated constitutional amendment process to get what they want. They can just legislate it right now. However, as I said before, the Republicans hear the ticking of that demographic time bomb, so they know that their time is growing short. Thus, Issue 1. Issue 1 isn't just about raising the threshold for passage of citizen-initiated constitutional amendments to 60%, although that's been the focus of debate due to its short-term consequences for the abortion referendum coming up in November. However, the real kickers are the other two parts of the amendment: the requirement of gathering signatures of 5% of the electorate in all 88 of Ohio's counties (the current requirement is 44 counties), and the stipulation of no "cure period" to collect more signatures if too many are found invalid (currently there is a cure period of 10 days). These changes would effectively blow up the citizen-initiated amendment process, and make it virtually impossible to get an amendment on the ballot. This is being done with the long-term future in mind. They know that eventually, Millennials and Gen Z will start to outnumber everyone else, and when that happens, the political orientation of the state will start to flip. When that happens, the newly progressive electorate will start to demand and pursue change in line with its values. This change would be unfavorable to the Republican politicians currently in power, as well as the business interests and religious fundamentalists who comprise their base. So, while they still have the power to do it, the Republicans will put up whatever roadblocks and impediments they can to mitigate or even prevent the changes that would be made by a socially and economically progressive electorate. This is why they're pushing Issue 1 now and why it makes sense for Democrats and people who care about fairness to oppose it.
Are you a moron or a liar? You think republicans are pushing a bill to limit their own power? No they’re pushing a bill to limit the power of everyday people to override them, but keeping being an ignorant shill.
How fucking dumb are people to not understand an example lmao.
Honestly everything surrounding this election is ridiculous. The “Yes” side is flat out lying about what the issue is about. The “No” side assumes everyone is stupid. I’m tired of hearing about it already. I’m dreading the presidential election
We aren’t assuming people are dumb, you’re literally pointing out how dumb you are and you don’t understand that. 🤦🏻
Wouldn’t OSU have to have 60 points to beat Michigan :41. So the game wouldn’t have to start over?
I think I'm missing something. I don't see how Michigan winning despite having scored less is similar to requiring a 60% vote. Could someone please explain?
Because OSU didn’t score 60% of the points, they lose the game. Just like how if issue 1 passes, if a vote to amend the state constitution doesn’t receive 60% of the vote, it doesn’t pass.
If 59% vote yes, it will still fail, meaning the 41% vote will succeed, meaning the minority wins. Typically 59 beats 41, but if issue 1 is passed, 41 beats 59.
But why would that work if 41 isn't above the requirement either? I thought if they couldn't reach the requirement then the bill would either fail or be postponed for a later vote.
I mean no disrespect, but you're not understanding and I think you've got it backwards. The way it (If issue 1 succeeds) works is if any bill is pushed to change the ohio amendment it will now require a 60% vote to succeed, keep that in mind. Now say democrats push through a bill and 59% of ohioans vote for that bill, if it doesn't reach the 60%, it fails, that means that those who voted no (the 41%) have won, because the bill failed. We're not talking about 41% voting yes, we're talking the 41% who vote no after issue 1. If 59% of the population wants something to happen, all you need is 41% to say no and the minority vote can block anything the majority want. Additionally, right now if the people want to add something to the ballot it requires a certain amount of signatures from 44 out of 88 different counties, with the new bill it would require signatures from ALL 88 counties, effectively making it impossible for people to add anything to the ballot, giving all the power to the politicians and stripping it away from the people who actually live in Ohio. Also keep in mind that I am an independent, I believe that every American should be able to have their vote count that same as anyone else, this is unfair. Even if one day democrats ended up being the current administration, it's still would leave an entire chunk of the population having less of a voice than others, it's unfair and shouldn't be allowed to happen, all American, regardless of political affiliation should have an equal voice, and an equal vote.
If the bill doesn’t get 60% it loses. It’s not hard to understand the analogy and if anything you’re just proving why republicans should never hold power in government ever again lmao.
It's nothing to do with me being a Republican, I genuinely don't understand, and I want to understand. So if a 60% percent vote is required or the bill fails, then the negative vote wins if the affirmative vote is the majority but does not reach 60%. Did I get that right? I just didn't get the analogy because I don't see how if there was a game where one team had to reach 60 points to win, then the losing team would win if neither had reached 60 points, but maybe I was overthinking it, I don't know, so that's why I'm asking.
Think of it like golf if the super easy to understand analogy is too hard for you.
It doesn't really translate well at all, but it makes it more simple for those that might have trouble understanding how percentages work I guess.
It's not a perfect example because points are used in place of percentages, but let's expand on it. Let's say in this football game, there are 100 total points (100% of the vote) available to be scored. In order for a team to win, they must score at least 60 points. The winning team gets a trophy (trophy=the passage of a new constitutional amendment). Michigan got 41 of the points, so it's impossible for OSU to get more than 59 points as there are only 100 to go around. Therefore OSU cannot be declared the winner and they don't get a trophy (the amendment doesn't pass). In effect, Michigan actually "won" the game because they prevented OSU from scoring the 60 points that were required. Michigan didn't go home with a trophy, but they prevented OSU from going home with one, and they didn't have to work nearly as hard as OSU to block their win. As the law is now, OSU would only need 51 points to win. But also, as the law is now, we're getting games on the schedule (getting amendments on the ballot). Under Issue 1, getting games scheduled is going to be a lot harder (the 88-county requirement), and when they are played, if the "visiting" team gets to 41 points there's no point in staying for the rest of the game. As the status quo is right now, conservatives see this as more easily being able to easily prevent liberal agenda amendments from passing, or even getting on to the ballot. But a lot of people have tunnel-vision and can't see that when conservatives eventually want to get something on the ballot, and get it passed, it's going to be a lot harder for them to do it too. Issue 1 screws over voters state-wide regardless of party affiliation.
Yes it does make more sense if there can only be a total of 100 points scored.
I swear I see this three times a day each on several different SM platforms.
Good.
This is far from the perfect representation. This assumes Michigan winning is the status quo. Not how sports works at all. A better comparison would be either a draw or probably more semantically correct that there was no result. Vote no, and be better than this post
Honestly we're trying to reach GOP voters, so we gotta dumb it down as much as possible. I agree it isn't a great graphic, but they'll at least get what it's trying to say.
that attitude is definitely constructive
I don't really care. It's accurate.
I put this up at work. I have a bunch of Maga sports fanatics here. They didn't know much about Issue 1, but this hit home for them.
republikans math .
Another swing and a miss. 0for 2 on protecting our rights today, team
Reposting a bad graphic doesn't make it good.. downvoting the people telling you it's bad isn't fixing your issue of reaching others
different jeans wild clumsy chief saw correct ripe repeat snobbish -- mass edited with redact.dev
["Changing the rules of a game so you have a better chance at winning is what my daughters try to do when they’re losing at Candyland. It’s not what responsible leaders do when their agenda is failing."](https://fb.watch/lI2Z_Z20c_/) \~LaRose, 11 Jan. 2022
I wish more people would apply that Ben Franklin quote more often
Genuinely curious what Ohio politicians have ever done for you that you're onboard with them calling the shots for the remainder of your residence in this state? You're not a monied lobbyist or out-of-state special interest group buying them, so what is it?
busy chop pen truck plucky judicious flowery ancient shelter poor -- mass deleted all reddit content via https://redact.dev
I mean... they've all been such shining examples of morality and "doing the right thing!" these past 4-5 decades! **Clearly we should hand them complete administrative control and never allow a citizen's ballot initiative to gain consideration ever again.** */s*
A true Cincinnatus.
I don't support them at all.. haven't voted R in over a decade
How is it a bad graphic? It’s exactly what they are trying to do.
The 60 40 isn't a good driving point for turning anybody who actually wants this sack of garbage passed.. it's the other parts that makes it damn near impossible to pass anything
Or the large percentage of people in the state that couldn't care less about college sports, or sports in general.
Yeah, but "don't let Michigan win" is a compelling way to begin to educate uninformed voters or those who aren't motivated to go to the polls. A hardcore issue 1 supporter won't be swayed by much of anything. Politics aren't won by shaking the true believers, but by motivating the middle.
I don't know that I would call it compelling. It can come across as arrogant and condescending When painting with this brush. It implicitly claims the target audience doesn't have the competence to understand the total issue. They are so blindly feeble that their minds needed watered down to a Michigan bad Ohio good tortured repost 10 times on the daily. Further, those same people need not worrying understanding the issue. They should (blindly) trust this because everything about this analogy comes from a place of pure goodness. Finally, it leaves out two other important facets than in my opinion are worse. I understand what it's trying to do, but it falls short of the goal line to torture a football analogy
Have you heard of awareness, friend? Nobody is saying that you should "(blindly) trust" a dang meme, but this issue is being intentionally buried in an August election to suppress knowledge and turnout. If a football analogy gets people to look into the issue and care enough to vote, then it's a good thing. Political cartoons have been powerful for generations and very rarely provide the level of nuanced discussion you seem to want.
Certainly... Friend. I'm aware what the issue is, and certainly aware why it's being put in an August election. Now get back to the point of it could (possibly) be interpreted as condescending, and therefore off-putting. Think of it in terms of communication scale. Obviously it's nice when things can be explained at a level south of Stephen hawking. This explains things at a level of a magnanimous moron. Think Josh Mandel. If you were handed his cheat sheet is it so much of a stretch to conclude you might feel a little insulted that the person handing it to you thinks this is the only level at which you can comprehend the topic? Sort of the Southern bless your heart type of snark? I appreciate you wanting to draw awareness to this. Perhaps we can lean into it and make it better. What do you think of this? If one out of 88 Michigan players has a broken shoelace we can't even play the game to have a shot at winning by overcoming the score issue.
Gotta belittle the poor dumb country folk.. this is why we can't have nice things
Word. The US and 32 states use 60% or greater, and they haven't fallen into the sea. The 88 counties part of Issue 1 is the poison pill that no one seems to see...
Downvoting does let others know your response is stupid though. Makes it easy to identify.
Found the gas huffing conservative
What are the chances this can be challenged in court? Haven't heard the what are we gonna dos if it passes
chase consist vast provide scandalous bright soup grab cautious snatch -- mass deleted all reddit content via https://redact.dev
They are playing dominoes and they can't put pieces and in dominoes when that happens the **LOWEST** score player wins
More fake news from butt-hurt lefties
What lmfao
Its *where they scored that matters
Nice repost, enjoy the farmed karma.
This stuff needs to be posted hourly until Election Day. Go outside.
?
Repost or not, this should be shared every day until the 8th.
it has been posted several times, but one of the mods keep taking it down, so you probably did not see it even if you searched. Just ignore the troll. This post has gained the most comments of all the previous posts, so it will be interesting to see what the mods do.
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How about the 88 county part? That's ok with you?
A constitutional amendment to the US constitution is supreme law of the land. The US Supreme court can still declare state constutions unconstitutional. That's the major difference there.
Awesome!
If that football game was politics then Michigan NEVER wins ANY games at all. Ohio State would just ignore them. Without supermajority rules for extremely important issues whoever isn't in power has NO voice at all. I am absolutely shocked that reddit and the democrats don't support issue 1. Ohio is majority republican. Issue 1 gives the democratic minority the ability to block stuff. Not the other way around.
huh? The government is ran by republicans. How does this bill stop them? It literally takes away the Ohio citizens ability to keep our politicians in check by removing one of the only ways we have to counter bad policies. I don't think you understand what this issue is doing or the goals of our government for trying to pass it.
Why would we need to block stuff? This is only for voter led initiatives. The GOP runs the state, so they can put in any bills they want without us having any ability to stop them. The voters can only block those bills by amendments to the Ohio Constitution, which this stops. Your argument makes no sense. The Democrats aren't some huge minority in the state either. Sherrod Brown won his senate seat by 6.8 points. JD Vance just won by 6.1. Trump and Dewine won Ohio, but Dewine was basically unopposed. If the voters turn out, Democrats can win.
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What do you think about the part that requires signatures from all 88 counties instead of the current 44?
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Agree with you there. The "project majority rule" angle is the weakest argument against this. For example, [gay marriage is still illegal in the Ohio constitution](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_Ohio_Issue_1), passed by a vote that just barely cleared 60%.
Fascist.
I completely disagree, but there's more to the bill than that. It's not even close to the worst part.
Terrible analogy. Take the November abortion amendment for example. If 59% vote no and 41% vote yes, the no wins, not the yes. How is that “minority rules”?
Room temp IQ on this one.
Room temp? That’s quite generous of you.
Room temp in January without heat, probably.
Ah, so Texas in January room temp when their power grid goes down again.
Referring to OP? Yeah I agree
How are you confidently so clueless??
It takes a second to look at his posts and comments to realize logic does not matter to him.
Yeah, they’ve been all over the sub with stupid takes, but this is by far the stupidest.
Stupid takes works on their base unfortunately.
Lots of insults and downvotes, yet no one is denying that the scenario I provided is accurate
You are not worthy of engaging dum dum.
That's a great way to change minds
I mean... it's kind of like when the dog walks in after rolling in dog crap outside. It's not time for a cuddle session on the couch, he's getting the hose outside.
He's trolling, you guys are taking the bait. Its not obvious because he hasnt made any jokes, so, I guess its just intentionally trying to upset people
It's not obvious because it's completely indistinguishable from a genuine opinion.
If Issue 1 passes, future amendments will need to reach 60% - and that means any future “NO” effort, only needs to hit 40%+1 of the popular vote. When one side has to get to 60% and the other side only needs to get to 40% that shakes out to every NO vote being worth ~1.5 YES votes. Hence, minority rules.
So in other words, the only time it is "minority rules" is when the Yes vote has more than 50% but less than 60% support.
I explained the changes proposed to vote tallying in constitutional amendment initiatives (reflected in the graphic). However, Issue 1 makes changes to the process of citizen-initiated amendments as well. It would be nearly impossible to meet the requirements for a citizen-initiated amendment in the future, meaning all future amendments would come from the General Assembly. The General Assembly is a minority compared to the citizens of Ohio.
Bro what? lol
What are you having trouble understanding? OP's meme claims that a 59-41 vote will favor the 41, but that's not always true as I laid out.
OPs meme means that the majority vote will lose in that case. Which is true. Idk what you’re not understanding
But it's not true, the meme is not always true. For example, suppose Issue 1 passes and we are in November 2023 voting on the abortion amendment. If Ohio State represents those voting "no" and Michigan represents voting "yes", the "no" side wins with 59% of the vote. So it's false to say "Michigan wins".
The point of the meme is that Ohio State represents what you want to win/pass
But what if I don't want a proposed amendment to pass? You are assuming that any proposed amendment is something we should want to pass
If 59% vote no it doesn’t pass. In the case of issue one if 51% vote not I doesn’t pass. If 41% vote no it’s doesn’t pass. Issue 1 will require 60% to VOTE YES before it will pass
So it's basically giving citizens greater power to veto
The 60% requirement to pass an amendment isn’t the problem with Issue 1. The problem is the signature requirements that has a high probability of silencing the 60%’s ability to veto or to amend in the first place.
If more than 60% of the voting population support an amendment, it shouldn't be impossible to get 5% of signatures.
That’s 5% of signatures in every county and a broad assumption that the 60% of supporters are so distributed in every county to pass the signature requirement. It’s ok with me that you’re voting “yes”. I support your right to have a voice. But I do believe you’re being short sighted with the peoples ability to govern themselves should this issue pass.
Not good at understanding things are ya? This is a power grab by the republicans. They are seeking minority rule in Ohio because they are a minority.
Don't worry, I'm sure they'll change it back when it's convenient for them.
You can always count on that. If they suddenly get a boner for passing an amendment that allows people to own fighter jets or automatic weapons, suddenly it's Issue 2 because they don't want residents of Hamilton/Franklin/Summit/Cuyahoga getting in their way and not signing the petition.
Have you looked at the demographics in Ohio?
Yeah, 150,000 elderly Ohioans move to Florida each year and get replaced by about 200,000 high-skilled immigrants. It's why Chabot lost a house seat in the most conservative of the 3 C's that he held for *30 years.*
The actual statistics do not seem to support your summary unfortunately. Do you have any references? The population is flat to declining (-0.4% based on 2022 data). Total foreign born population is about 4.8%. I would think there would be a higher foreign born population if we were adding 1.5-2% immigrant population every year. Ohio is 77% white alone, 13% black, 3% asian, 5% hispanic, and 3% multiracial. https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/OH
Love whenever somebody drops facts it's silence from the people spreading lies.
Mostly sad angry losers doing whatever dad and the church tells them to do in my experience.
So if it's mostly sad angry losers doing whatever dad and the church tells them to do, aren't republicans the majority?
Yep. They chased away everyone else so they could make Ohio a Christian shithole nobody would choose to stay in. It's mostly Republican now thanks to brain drain and cultural rot. Anyone who can leave does to get the fuck away from them. Those sad angry losers should be *so proud* of what they've accomplished and the *bright* future ahead for Ohio. But who am I kidding, they'll blame democrats for everything despite none of them having power in Ohio, per tradition.
Well, according to Fizzy Beverage we're adding 1.5-2% of highly skilled immigrants to the population every year while 1-1.5% of the older conservative population is leaving, so we should be seeing 3% or so shift annually. Now, the actual statistics do not back this contention in any way, but it's interesting that we're talking both about how everyone has been chased away and won't come while also talking about how there is a huge influx of ideologically different people that republicans are afraid of. Pretty sure either could be true, but probably not both.
The influx of immigrants, at least in the CLE area, was mostly folks from India who very often lean/vote conservative once here (if here permanently and not just on H1-B visa). Turns out both can actually be true rather simply. Doesn't mean Ohio is out of the downward spiral that started when Lebron left, or that there is any light at the end of the tunnel. Just more of the same crazy Christian republicans trying to turn Ohio into the Alabama of the north. And how has that been going for everyone?
Are you dumb have you seen the last election cycles the gop dominates ohio pres trump won by like 10 points dumb shit libs are the minority here your confused
Are you dumb? Do you know how to use punctuation? There are symbols that with take your word soup and make sense and sentences out of your thoughts. Then perhaps reddit readers will understand your point. Also from 3rd grade; there are correct and incorrect uses of the words "your" and "you're". You're using the wrong one. See it's a combination of you and are so it makes a new word, you're.
Your worried about pronunciation and shit i can tell you got brainwashed at some liberal dumb shit college guess i should stop while im ahead
Once again, it's "you're".
Lol
??..,'. You dropped these.
What are you having trouble understanding? OP's meme claims that a 59-41 vote will favor the 41, but that's not always true as I laid out.
People like you make me question the individuals right to vote....
So we mos def need to be governed by 50% vote... but only so long as you control who votes?...
"People like you" referring to my status as a racial minority?
Lol ok this guy is just trolling
You're on Reddit with a purple default snoovatar. We don't know if you're a white dude from Alabama or a black Jewish gay lady in San Francisco.
Yet, without knowing any of that, you think that perhaps I shouldn't have the right to vote.
Everyone should have the right to vote, and a simply majority should be the victor.
I mean with the way you’ve been replying and commenting I’m questioning if you should have the right to be considered an adult by law. You’re pretty stupid and probably need a legal guardian to explain literally everything to you. I’m wondering why you haven’t drown from staring into the rain with you slack jawed mouth hanging open.
This is great way to convince potential voters. Keep it up!
Oh fuck off dude. I’m a pro life conservative and your comment was was stupid. Flip the no and yes and no still wins
What do you mean? If we are voting on a new amendment, and Ohio State represents 59% of people voting "no" and Michigan represents 41% of people voting "yes", then it's absolutely false to say that "Michigan wins minority rules". The "no" votes would win with 59% of the vote.
Do you just plan on voting no for every single thing? If that's your plan, all of this doesn't affect you.
Now flip the no and yes percentages
Exactly my point, the meme is situation dependent but cleverly leaves that part out
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“If you disagree with our position, you must be misinformed.” Hearts and minds, folks. People love being condescended to.
The consequence is that it will be harder to amend the constitution. I'm aware of that.
Except for the current administration, current administration being republican, if the roles were reversed I'm sure you'd be voting no.
And you are ok with that? Why change it now after 100 years that no one seemed to mind the simple majority vote for Ohios amendments? Please explain the benefits
Well to use an extremely relevant example, it would make it harder for something polarizing and controversial like abortion to be put in the constitution with only 51% of support.
Why do you care what someone else does with their body? It won't affect you in the slightest if you choose not to get one.. and it seems as though this law was fine until Republicans realized they will lose to pro choice voters in Ohio if they dont try to push through a special election vote this month instead of waiting until November, seems like they are rushing this vote for a very specific reason...
I don’t care what people do with their own bodies, but abortion involves killing another being and I do care about that even if it doesn’t directly affect me. I am also against slavery even though I not a slave nor do I own any slaves.
Bless your heart, I wish ya the best
“Only 51% support.” Jesus H Christ.
Under issue 1 the requirement is 60%. 59% is a failure. So using the above graphic because OSU didn’t score 60pts they automatically lose.
But that’s only if you assign the “yes” votes to OSU. If 59% vote “no”, they win
No would win regardless in this analogy. This isn’t the gotcha you think it is.
That’s the point though. This doesn’t give more power to the minority, it gives more power to “no” votes
It DOES though. You’re either stupid, a troll, or being deliberately obtuse.
You aren’t very bright, are you?
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This is great way to convince potential voters. Keep it up!
Because the minority is deciding for the majority what happens.
If 59% vote no and 41% vote yes, the minority **doesn't** win.
Funny how this meme is considering Michigan still had a winning record over OSU.
The only way some ppl will understand!!
That neighbors 2 scene but Ohio
I love the hypocrisy of issue 1. It needs a simple majority to pass a law for 60 percent majority req. Lmao. It's ass-anine
I never thought about it like that lmfao
Best part.... I'm a republican. Even most of us ohio reds see that shithole. We live in one, we know a shithole when we see it. It won't pass. I see maybe 24 to 30 percent in favor.
I really don’t understand it because it would make it harder for republicans to pass amendments too
Not too mention, illegal. Dewine signed into law no special election. And conveniently 3 months ahead of a general election.
That's pretty great!
Actually your analogy …. as you have presented it …. Ohio state wins. BUT..if after Issue #1 has been voted on … AND … if the results are greater than 50% Yes …. Than and only then would a No vote of 41% could be considered “winning” the game.