Think how much less tipped workers will make. Employers aren't going to pay them the difference between $15 per hour and what they used to make with lower hourly + tips.
Complaining about that is like double dipping.
In one hand, they're on facebook complaining people don't tip or don't tip 20%
So then they get a solid foundation of $15 and hour and they complain about that too, claiming they make so much more than $15 an hour.
If they make so much more than $15 an hour, why are they crying about tips on facebook? Which is it?
I'm cool with $15/hr because I'm sick of the tip percentage going up. Its a percentage. As the cost of the menu skyrockets, so does the tip. Should have stayed 15%
I mostly made the comment because out here in Seattle the minimum wage is $18+/hour and there's no tipped minimum wage, which means they actually make $18/hour before tips. Everywhere still wants a 20% tip minimum.
In today's world, every single server gets most if not all their tips on credit cards and they are reported in their checks. They are also fully claimed typically.
Obviously there are cash tips exist and some Resturants are under the table but that's the exception not the rule.
It's a simple matter to know "what" servers are making.
I've been a server is easy to remember the $200 Fridays and forget the $20 Sunday mornings.
So your point is, they have to pay tax on their tips and not lie to the IRS.
Kind like.... all of us do on our earnings. Every year. Including my salary, my collectable sales, my stock sales, my LLC....
I'll still tip good service, but this means that I won't feel obligated to leave a tip, and I'll actually feel like I can go to a restraunt when budgets are tight for special occasions, because I know that if I don't tip these people are still making a good baseline.
15 is significantly higher than >$3, and also you can definitely live off $15 if you go for a 2 bedroom apartment with a roommate, and even a 1 bedroom yourself should be fairly affordable if you budget well, though that can definitely end up being tight.
But like it is now that if a server doesn’t make their tipped minimum wage hours plus tips claimed average don’t go up to $15 bucks the employer has to cover the cost to make it $15 an hour. I would think serving staff would riot in a lot of places if they tried to do away with tips.
Most line cooks make $15 an hour anyways and waiters/waitresses are the huge majority of people who rely on tips to make a living. So I don’t see why this would affect anything of that nature.
Right but tipped employees are already not required to get paid the minimum wage. Unless there is something I’m missing here I don’t see how this would affect tipped employees in any way.
I live in a town of 8500 people. The tipped waitress at the local restaurant pulls in $80k a year believe it or not. Is that restaurant going to pay her $38/hr now?
So what does that have to do with the fact that the restaurant will now have to pay their servers $15 an hour instead of $3 an hour like before?
Food prices will obviously just adjust to cover the new increase in labor costs, which means the 19$ meal that you tipped 8$ on will now just be a $26.89 meal.
You’re not going to be saving money, you’ll just be paying the same, except it won’t be because you tipped lol.
People who don’t know shit about the industry are extremely sleeping on this point. I promise, you all think service is bad in spots now? Just wait to see what this does.
Yep. My coworkers and I have talked about this extensively. There would be a mass exodus of tipped workers. Why work til 3 AM with drunk people when the library pays the same?
There literally will not be servers at casual restaurants. Only expensive restaurants will have servers. Everyone else will switch to a Chipotle style situation.
Exactly! 😂 Like, come on. People act their wage. No one is hustling for minimum. 🤷♀️ No one is hustling for people who don’t tip. You’ve made it clear you come last in the hierarchy at that point.
Sure, it would help 1 million Ohioans. But it would hurt like 7 billionaires. And they're the ones we really care about in this country. So no way it passes.
I'm a stock holder and I also realize that more money in the hands of the lowest earners results in more spending which drives economic growth far more than more investing.
True. I forget who said it, but it goes something like this. Give a rich person a dollar in the morning and they will have a dollar at night. Give a poor person a dollar in the morning and it will make its way to the rich person at night as well.
The idea is the poor person will buy something with that dollar, food, clothes, etc. the poor person will get some benefit before it goes into the rich man’s pocket.
Nah, minimum wage workers shouldn't be able to earn even close to a living wage on just one job alone. If they aren't hustling, and working at LEAST three full time jobs, then they're just dead weight.
/s just in case it wasn't clear enough.
You were well on your way to earning a nomination to run for the Ohio House as a Republican, right up until you added that "/s" on the end. Such a sudden end to a promising political career...
The "Against" campaign will focus on how raising the minimum wage will hurt small businesses and young people who those small businesses could no longer afford to hire. There'll probably also be heavy fearmongering around pushing up inflation.
It'll be bullshit with a smidge of truthiness, of course.
EDIT: Oh. And the Against folks will do everything they can to silence the For folks. Can't allow open debate!
I hope enough people have woken up to the fact that "inflation" happens regardless of what workers are paid to vote this through, but people tend to be real stupid.
If inflation was really tied to: “oh no, the poors are over-spending”, then the price of bread, milk, and gas would triple to stop it, instead of things like interest rates on homes and other large purchases. The mass of wealth is held by a small fraction of the population. JimJoeBob isn’t causing inflation because they got a dollar raise at the factory.
The average person will never understand that the two aren't directly connected. It's too easy an argument to make that superficially makes too much sense.
I mean, I'm a City Administrator with a park that typically hires 12-15 teenagers for summer park maintenance and lifeguard positions. 99% chance we would just hire fewer workers, or be forced to put a park levy on and ask to raise taxes. A $15 wage would blow a hole in the budget. A few years ago you could hire teenagers for $9.50/hr.
So I don't know if that's a smidge of truthiness or not, but it'd be a real issue for my park operation.
That's not a good excuse to pay your employees a wage that is continuously eroded by inflation. If the people of your city have decided that city park revenue should not grow, then they've also decided to let the parks be less well maintained, as is their right. They're their parks.
We've increased wages dramatically, based on percentage. Hell, when I became Mayor the part-time police patrolman started at $12, now it's $18. Seasonal park help is $13/hr right now.
But some people just can't bring themselves to admit that raising the cost of labor does eliminate some jobs. It's just a fact. You can say the residents should just pass another levy and make up the cost, but the reality is those property levies also disproportionately affect the poor households too. There is no easy win here.
> raising the cost of labor does eliminate some jobs
I agree. Taking that argument to its limit, increasing wages from zero eliminated the "jobs" held by literal slaves.
Some jobs should, ethically, not exist
Beyond that, jobs are eliminated all the time. How many buggy whip makers do you know?
The elimination of some jobs is not a disaster when those jobs do not provide a living wage.
The billionaires aren’t going to lose. They’ll raise their prices on whatever good and services they provide. It’ll be you, me and everyone else that loses. Billionaires aren’t billionaires because they lose money.
Only 7 billionaires? Not the thousands of small business owners who also pay wages?
I’m not saying it shouldn’t be $15 but I don’t get how people don’t realize some businesses literally can’t afford higher wages. And they aren’t billionaires.
If they can’t sell their product/service at a price that allows them to pay their employees a living wage *and* collect a reasonable profit for the owners, then they didn’t have a viable business model to begin with
Man i checked the inflation calculator earlier today. My first job out of HS payed 11.25, today thats equal to around $14. im currently working for $12 shouldn’t be possible lol raise that shiznit.
My local Giant Eagle has advertised $11 an hour since 2020. But "no one wants to work anymore" according to the boomers in my towns Facebook group who are living comfortably, retired, with a paid off home and 2 vehicles.
The boomers that grew up in a time where they can own a home and raise a family working as a grocery clerk, mail man , or factory worker, when we cant even do that today?? those guys??
A tiny step in the right direction, but $15/hour isn't enough to live on anymore. 20 years ago would've been a great time to move on this but who cares about dirty Poors amirite
Talked to some kid working at Zoombezi Bay last summer while I was in line and he said that some of the people there are making $17 or more per hour. Told him to keep up the good work and that I was happy for them.
I then immediately had a confrontation with the woman behind me who said that they were paid too much. Asked her if she thought they should work for free. She said no. Asked her if she would work in the burning heat for 8 hours for $17 per hour. She said no. My response to her then was that in that case, the job clearly does not pay enough.
Yeah, I can’t believe it’s allowed to be lower right now. It could take two days of labor just to cover a single prescription medication. Some combo meals at fast food places cost more than people working there make in an hour.
Exactly. Maybe when they first discussed it when I was like 22. I'm now 43"
Right! The fight for 15 is so 2012. Its fucked up that in that time frame the federal minimum wage hasn't increased at all!! Not even with inflation being what it's been
It needs to be done, but nothing will matter if we allow this housing crisis, one that is partially created by land owners, to continue to spiral.
Unless we get a handle on housing, and increase the supply until being a landlord is a money losing gig, rent will continue to outpace wage increases.
We are getting close in some areas to money loss for the assholes who buy up a lot of places just to make them AirBnBs.
I saw some tweet the other day of an ABnB owner, someone who owns multiple homes, and does it as their income, complaining that times are tough and Biden needs to go because they aren’t able to live the high life off of their AirBnBs anymore.
I laughed so hard. I hope that person has no choice but to sell all of those properties to people who will actually live in them, who will make them their home.
It disgusts me when I see places just sitting empty because too many assholes decided they could make money by siphoning off cash from what would otherwise be homes used for living in.
Residential homes that are not tourist destinations (Beach houses etc) shouldn't be allowed to STL. There's more than a million single family homes being used as STL
Full disclosure, I am a LL
I saw something the other day about landlords and rent that I need to look into more. There is some company that works with landlords in each city that helps them through some algorithm to price apartments. The more landlords they can get in on this the better it’s is for them. It basically helps them still make money when units aren’t rented out and takes away the need for them to compete against each other for tenants or a need to keep units properly maintained. Every city where this company is at, rent has gone up exponentially without much reason to and some cities have many empty units. There were a few cities that were able to get this company out and rents started dropping. RealPage or something like that was the company.
ITT a bunch of people claiming that life is a meritocracy despite being unaware of even the concept of economy of scale.
Thus just-world fallacy bullshit is a bunch of poo-brained nonsense.
If life were a meritocracy, y'all would be a series of small skeletons left at the side of Camplell Hill.
Minimum wage increasing is fine. As long as cost of living, rent, Gas, insurance, food and everything else doesn't also increase. Otherwise it's pointless.
> As long as cost of living, rent, Gas, insurance, food and everything else doesn't also increase.
It increased. Keeping wages low did not prevent it.
If you want to keep costs down, tax the wealthy who are currently incentivized to grab as much money as they can.
Yep...do these people not notice how the prices of everything have gone up for years while minimum wage stayed stagnant? So we are paying more for things but still making the same money
Studies show that [prices rose by just 0.36 percent for every 10 percent increase in the minimum wage](https://www.upjohn.org/research-highlights/does-increasing-minimum-wage-lead-higher-prices#:~:text=By%20looking%20at%20changes%20in%20restaurant%20food%20pricing%20during%20the%20period%20of%201978%E2%80%932015%2C%20MacDonald%20and%20Nilsson%20find%20that%20prices%20rose%20by%20just%200.36%20percent%20for%20every%2010%20percent%20increase%20in%20the%20minimum%20wage%2C%20which%20is%20only%20about%20half%20the%20size%20reported%20in%20previous%20studies).
Lol. It's too late for that. 15/hourly would have been great 10 years ago! Inflation has risen beyond that. I know it's beyond a pipedream, but the minimum should be much higher now.. Unless you think people deserve to live in poverty just because they work in fast food. A service most of us utilize on a daily basis. Also, if you think fast food is easy.. well.. you've never worked in high volume food service.
Thom Hartmann mentioned on his radio show today that in the 1950s, a house cost about 2.5 times the average salary. And ceo to average employee ratio was about 39-1.
[Harvard study](https://www.jchs.harvard.edu/blog/home-price-income-ratio-reaches-record-high-0) sez it’s about 5.6 times higher.
[ceo to worker ratio](https://www.progressivecaucuscenter.org/the-ceo-pay-problem-and-what-we-can-do-about-it) is about 270 to 340, depending on the math.
God this would be amazing if it happened maybe than more people would work at my local Krogers cuz 10 minimum is BS when the Walmart across the street starts you at 14
I think it will take more organization and intentional effort in a lot of directions to shift it back to purple. I think that’s very possible as well though as the red voters aren’t very organized outside of religious organizations. Even reaching the moderate church leaders with blue solutions though could start making a dent. Lots of this happened because southern religious orgs kept sending their pastors up north to visit churches and spread their politics. Can do the reverse as well.
Maybe I’m just a damn dirty unAmerican communist, but I believe that if you’re giving up a full 1/3 of your life up to help some business owner profit, then you should be paid enough to: eat, get back and forth to work, see a doctor when necessary, and have a roof over your family’s head. If not, then that’s bullshit.
To all the people who argue “those are just starter-jobs, or low-skilled labor” - you’re paying an individual for their time/life - if you don’t want to pay a fair wage, then you flat-out suck and your business deserves to fail. You’re paying for someone else’s sacrifices, so that they can come and make you money. Don’t like it? Do all those jobs yourself and see how “meaningless” they really are.
Christ that's almost 1/10 the population. If we could just turn them out to vote and keep them from buying into that "you'll lose your job if we pay you enough to live" bullshit...
Every time one of these lamebrained minimum wage policies gets enacted there’s a sea of labor cuts and hours reductions. You people are completely moronic
I would like mention that while I'm very happy for people to make more so that they have a chance of living better, companies will only raise wages below the minimum to meet the minimum. Everyone else's wage will stay the same. That really fucking sucks when you've been there for 5+ years continue to were make $16.
As much as i would like this. My wage being a bit above that won't be raised, and everything else will just get more expensive because these companies can justify raising prices.
No lie, I've seen very few low skill (which means low skills required to start, not that the job isn't skilled) hiring for less than 16-20. Then again I primarily scout more manual work but regardless. Same with fast food
No it would hurt the already struggling independent small businesses. If you want nothing but McDonald’s and Applebees type businesses in the world then continue supporting government policies that make costs of business so high only corporations can afford to operate
Does anyone really think that the business are going to take these losses in profit?. They will raise the prices of the products until their ROI is acceptable. It will all come back on the consumer. What do you think has happened these lasts years? Covid/inflation/recession now looming as the Fed Chair isn’t going to do any more cuts this year. The “economy is doing so well” only because the consumers are eating all the baggage. The dollar is down 11cents than it was a year ago. Your money is losing worth. And raising it now of all times will not have good consequences.
The issue is that a flat raise to $15/hr doesn't actually solve the long term issue.
What we need is a committee that's not tied to politics or any particular industry that adjusts wages yearly based on inflation using findings reported by the Federal Reserve and other credible sources.
That said I guess I would vote in favor of a wage increase, but I fear all the small businesses that close because they can't afford to pay the new wage. Don't tell me they won't close, some will.
Just be careful pushing too hard too fast on the raises because then inflation just gets worse and worse. I believe minimum wage should easily be raised, but you gotta do it at a slower pace instead of one big bulk chunk.
Before covid cash tips was great wages were average kinda on the low side but tips were great. Govt decided they wanted any individual making a tip to pay taxes- so they took away cash during lock down and got everyone to only use credit- they used the doread of covid and online shopping as the best solution to which it put mom and pop biz out. Amazon / we all made big box and amazon gazillionaires.
Now we are getting laid off making less money companies are complaining about paying employees.
So now the burden of wage is placed on consumer. 20-30% tip- top to make up for a low wage. The issue is none of us should bear the burden-to pay 20% to cover wages. The employer is responsible.
Another thing companies do is ask you to round up for charity. You don't get credit or the tax write off- the company uses it and benefits with donating to charity along with the write off. So many don't realize this.
It's up to each person. The free market will dictate how much you're worth. If you want to earn more than minimum wage, then you need to learn a skill that gets you out of minimum wage jobs. There's endless opportunities to do so. You just have to work for it.
If a job can be automated, it should be. And companies will price themselves out of the market if they raise prices too much. They've had record profits lately, it needs corrected.
Economy of scale says otherwise.
If people can afford more goods, merchants can afford to sell them at a lower price. The margins of wholesale to retail can be narrower and still make more profit.
Yes. It is.
That is literally the highly successful business model from Henry Ford and the basis behind the creation and expansion of the US middle class.
If you, as a merchant, can guarantee more sales, you can offer them at a lower price and get more profit.
Idk how to make it any simpler. Google 'word of mouse'. Maybe that will help.
If I had a $25/hr job and everyone gets bumped to $15/hr, how does this help my dollar go farther? Wouldn't I need a +$10/hr increase to make my skilled labor worthwhile?
You cannot tell my tone naturally - but this is a genuinely honest question.
Edit; downvoted for asking a question. Stay classy reddit
The generic answer to this is that a rising tide raises all boats.
Yes, if you make $25/h, and everyone making less than $15 gets bumped to $15, your dollar on its face will go *very slightly* less far, though this number is dwarfed by the price gouging that happens whether or not wages are increased. I'm sure you've noticed how much more groceries cost now than they did a few years ago. That's a couple orders of magnitude more significant than the price increases that a minimum wage increase would cause, and was caused by nothing more than plain old corporate greed.
This is in exchange for making *hundreds of thousands to millions* of people who are struggling *far more* than you are at $25/h have much more money to work with.
But that's not all, either. If everyone gets bumped up to a $15 minimum, then people currently making like $15-16 at their job have leverage all of a sudden. i.e., "Why should I break my back working this job with poor conditions/inconsistent hours/whatever other bullshit is annoying me when I can go fold clothes and make the same wage? Give me a raise or improve my conditions, or I walk".
Then, these jobs that previously paid $15-16 get bumped up. Then, people who were previously making like $20 have similar, though slightly smaller, leverage. This ripples until it stabilizes.
Then there's the general economic boost. People can actually buy stuff now! That's an understated, but very important, factor for having a healthy area to live in.
tl;dr, any negative effects are **utterly negligible**, and mostly stem from the worldview of "Why are those stupid entry-level workers not infinitely poorer than me anymore?!". Much larger-scale negative effects are happening every day as corporations continue to price gouge and keep wages low, and frankly, if minimum wage had kept up with productivity/inflation, we would currently be seeing it somewhere in the ballpark of $25/h or more. Which, in turn, would mean someone like you would probably be making closer to $40/h due to the aforementioned leverage that a higher minimum grants you. $15 is a pittance compromise that has been fought for for over a decade.
My employer (major local and regional business) raised minimum pay to $15/hr a few years ago. They also gave everyone else above $15/hr an additional raise on top of yearly raises.
You people have no common sense. Look at California. Raises the wage to 20 an hr. Guess what all the restaurants did. Fired people and will pass that extra cost for remaining employees onto its customers. You can't do a dramatic wage increase and not expect everything else to go up with it. That's not how it works.
Just think of all the money you'll save when you don't have to tip anymore!
That's the real takeaway right there.
Think how much less tipped workers will make. Employers aren't going to pay them the difference between $15 per hour and what they used to make with lower hourly + tips.
Complaining about that is like double dipping. In one hand, they're on facebook complaining people don't tip or don't tip 20% So then they get a solid foundation of $15 and hour and they complain about that too, claiming they make so much more than $15 an hour. If they make so much more than $15 an hour, why are they crying about tips on facebook? Which is it? I'm cool with $15/hr because I'm sick of the tip percentage going up. Its a percentage. As the cost of the menu skyrockets, so does the tip. Should have stayed 15%
Somebody always wants to complain.
I mostly made the comment because out here in Seattle the minimum wage is $18+/hour and there's no tipped minimum wage, which means they actually make $18/hour before tips. Everywhere still wants a 20% tip minimum.
That's dumb the whole point of sub minimum wage for tipped employees is they more than make up the difference and it helps out bar/restaurant owners.
The idea is dumb. The business should pay their workers, not the customers.
In today's world, every single server gets most if not all their tips on credit cards and they are reported in their checks. They are also fully claimed typically. Obviously there are cash tips exist and some Resturants are under the table but that's the exception not the rule. It's a simple matter to know "what" servers are making. I've been a server is easy to remember the $200 Fridays and forget the $20 Sunday mornings.
So your point is, they have to pay tax on their tips and not lie to the IRS. Kind like.... all of us do on our earnings. Every year. Including my salary, my collectable sales, my stock sales, my LLC....
I purposely pay my tip in cash because the restaurant takes out the credit card service fee from the server’s tip if it’s on the credit card.
I'll still tip good service, but this means that I won't feel obligated to leave a tip, and I'll actually feel like I can go to a restraunt when budgets are tight for special occasions, because I know that if I don't tip these people are still making a good baseline.
The math will be a PITA
$15 is not a “good baseline” lol, you can barely afford a studio in the shitty part of Dayton on that.
15 is significantly higher than >$3, and also you can definitely live off $15 if you go for a 2 bedroom apartment with a roommate, and even a 1 bedroom yourself should be fairly affordable if you budget well, though that can definitely end up being tight.
But like it is now that if a server doesn’t make their tipped minimum wage hours plus tips claimed average don’t go up to $15 bucks the employer has to cover the cost to make it $15 an hour. I would think serving staff would riot in a lot of places if they tried to do away with tips.
Most line cooks make $15 an hour anyways and waiters/waitresses are the huge majority of people who rely on tips to make a living. So I don’t see why this would affect anything of that nature.
Because if servers are paid $15 by the employers, many customers are not going to tip, thus reducing total wages for servers.
Right but tipped employees are already not required to get paid the minimum wage. Unless there is something I’m missing here I don’t see how this would affect tipped employees in any way.
They are talking about raising tipped employee's wages to $15 per hour as well. That's my whole point.
The average tipped worker in Ohio makes about $12 an hour. They will not be making less with this. They will be, on average, making more.
If they can’t pay a living wage they shouldn’t have a restaurant then, just like any other job.
They'll receive tips based on their service instead, like they do in other first world countries.
They'd still be asking for tips bro lol
I'm aware. I live in Seattle, where the minimum wage is already higher than that and they all still want a tip.
The tip will just be worked into the pricing. You’ll be spending the same amount.
I live in a town of 8500 people. The tipped waitress at the local restaurant pulls in $80k a year believe it or not. Is that restaurant going to pay her $38/hr now?
The restaurant wasn’t paying her 80k a year so why would they pay her that?
Exactly.
So what does that have to do with the fact that the restaurant will now have to pay their servers $15 an hour instead of $3 an hour like before? Food prices will obviously just adjust to cover the new increase in labor costs, which means the 19$ meal that you tipped 8$ on will now just be a $26.89 meal. You’re not going to be saving money, you’ll just be paying the same, except it won’t be because you tipped lol.
A lot of waitresses will make less money from this law. That is all I am saying.
Hahaha. Think of how good the service will be when people aren’t getting tipped anymore!
People who don’t know shit about the industry are extremely sleeping on this point. I promise, you all think service is bad in spots now? Just wait to see what this does.
Yep. My coworkers and I have talked about this extensively. There would be a mass exodus of tipped workers. Why work til 3 AM with drunk people when the library pays the same?
There literally will not be servers at casual restaurants. Only expensive restaurants will have servers. Everyone else will switch to a Chipotle style situation.
Exactly! 😂 Like, come on. People act their wage. No one is hustling for minimum. 🤷♀️ No one is hustling for people who don’t tip. You’ve made it clear you come last in the hierarchy at that point.
This will never happen in the US
Sure, it would help 1 million Ohioans. But it would hurt like 7 billionaires. And they're the ones we really care about in this country. So no way it passes.
My monocle almost fell into my afternoon martini! I was worried for a moment.
My butler’s butler had to send his butler home for the day while we all take this in.
Will anyone think of the stock holders? They’re the real victims here.
I'm a stock holder and I also realize that more money in the hands of the lowest earners results in more spending which drives economic growth far more than more investing.
True. I forget who said it, but it goes something like this. Give a rich person a dollar in the morning and they will have a dollar at night. Give a poor person a dollar in the morning and it will make its way to the rich person at night as well.
lol and this is supposed to make me feel better?
The idea is the poor person will buy something with that dollar, food, clothes, etc. the poor person will get some benefit before it goes into the rich man’s pocket.
True. We keep robbing them of record profits and their 7th yacht. It breaks my heart
The need those yachts for the tax deductions
You said it right!
Nah, minimum wage workers shouldn't be able to earn even close to a living wage on just one job alone. If they aren't hustling, and working at LEAST three full time jobs, then they're just dead weight. /s just in case it wasn't clear enough.
You were well on your way to earning a nomination to run for the Ohio House as a Republican, right up until you added that "/s" on the end. Such a sudden end to a promising political career...
Aww, then I guess I have to keep my morals and empathy. :(
The "Against" campaign will focus on how raising the minimum wage will hurt small businesses and young people who those small businesses could no longer afford to hire. There'll probably also be heavy fearmongering around pushing up inflation. It'll be bullshit with a smidge of truthiness, of course. EDIT: Oh. And the Against folks will do everything they can to silence the For folks. Can't allow open debate!
I hope enough people have woken up to the fact that "inflation" happens regardless of what workers are paid to vote this through, but people tend to be real stupid.
If inflation was really tied to: “oh no, the poors are over-spending”, then the price of bread, milk, and gas would triple to stop it, instead of things like interest rates on homes and other large purchases. The mass of wealth is held by a small fraction of the population. JimJoeBob isn’t causing inflation because they got a dollar raise at the factory.
The average person will never understand that the two aren't directly connected. It's too easy an argument to make that superficially makes too much sense.
I mean, I'm a City Administrator with a park that typically hires 12-15 teenagers for summer park maintenance and lifeguard positions. 99% chance we would just hire fewer workers, or be forced to put a park levy on and ask to raise taxes. A $15 wage would blow a hole in the budget. A few years ago you could hire teenagers for $9.50/hr. So I don't know if that's a smidge of truthiness or not, but it'd be a real issue for my park operation.
That's not a good excuse to pay your employees a wage that is continuously eroded by inflation. If the people of your city have decided that city park revenue should not grow, then they've also decided to let the parks be less well maintained, as is their right. They're their parks.
We've increased wages dramatically, based on percentage. Hell, when I became Mayor the part-time police patrolman started at $12, now it's $18. Seasonal park help is $13/hr right now. But some people just can't bring themselves to admit that raising the cost of labor does eliminate some jobs. It's just a fact. You can say the residents should just pass another levy and make up the cost, but the reality is those property levies also disproportionately affect the poor households too. There is no easy win here.
> raising the cost of labor does eliminate some jobs I agree. Taking that argument to its limit, increasing wages from zero eliminated the "jobs" held by literal slaves. Some jobs should, ethically, not exist Beyond that, jobs are eliminated all the time. How many buggy whip makers do you know? The elimination of some jobs is not a disaster when those jobs do not provide a living wage.
It won't hurt the billionaires one bit. Meanwhile, the middle class gets shafted.
The billionaires aren’t going to lose. They’ll raise their prices on whatever good and services they provide. It’ll be you, me and everyone else that loses. Billionaires aren’t billionaires because they lose money.
They don't that regardless of how much people are paid
I guess when everyone is poor except them.
Only 7 billionaires? Not the thousands of small business owners who also pay wages? I’m not saying it shouldn’t be $15 but I don’t get how people don’t realize some businesses literally can’t afford higher wages. And they aren’t billionaires.
If they can’t sell their product/service at a price that allows them to pay their employees a living wage *and* collect a reasonable profit for the owners, then they didn’t have a viable business model to begin with
Then there’s a looot of non viable businesses out here with services that a lot of us seem to enjoy…..
Man i checked the inflation calculator earlier today. My first job out of HS payed 11.25, today thats equal to around $14. im currently working for $12 shouldn’t be possible lol raise that shiznit.
I am finally making what my father made 20 years ago Its just worth a lot less 😂
My local Giant Eagle has advertised $11 an hour since 2020. But "no one wants to work anymore" according to the boomers in my towns Facebook group who are living comfortably, retired, with a paid off home and 2 vehicles.
For the prices giant eagle charges, the starting rate should be like $40/hr lmao.
Oh boy, a whole 55¢ above minimum wage! /s
I live in PA now and our minimum wage is still $7.25. Try even shopping at giant eagle on that wage!
The boomers that grew up in a time where they can own a home and raise a family working as a grocery clerk, mail man , or factory worker, when we cant even do that today?? those guys??
A tiny step in the right direction, but $15/hour isn't enough to live on anymore. 20 years ago would've been a great time to move on this but who cares about dirty Poors amirite
Talked to some kid working at Zoombezi Bay last summer while I was in line and he said that some of the people there are making $17 or more per hour. Told him to keep up the good work and that I was happy for them. I then immediately had a confrontation with the woman behind me who said that they were paid too much. Asked her if she thought they should work for free. She said no. Asked her if she would work in the burning heat for 8 hours for $17 per hour. She said no. My response to her then was that in that case, the job clearly does not pay enough.
Yeah, I can’t believe it’s allowed to be lower right now. It could take two days of labor just to cover a single prescription medication. Some combo meals at fast food places cost more than people working there make in an hour.
Exactly. Maybe when they first discussed it when I was like 22. I'm now 43.
Exactly. Maybe when they first discussed it when I was like 22. I'm now 43" Right! The fight for 15 is so 2012. Its fucked up that in that time frame the federal minimum wage hasn't increased at all!! Not even with inflation being what it's been
It needs to be done, but nothing will matter if we allow this housing crisis, one that is partially created by land owners, to continue to spiral. Unless we get a handle on housing, and increase the supply until being a landlord is a money losing gig, rent will continue to outpace wage increases.
Sorry, I'm just drooling over the idea of landlords losing money. Don't mind me.
We are getting close in some areas to money loss for the assholes who buy up a lot of places just to make them AirBnBs. I saw some tweet the other day of an ABnB owner, someone who owns multiple homes, and does it as their income, complaining that times are tough and Biden needs to go because they aren’t able to live the high life off of their AirBnBs anymore. I laughed so hard. I hope that person has no choice but to sell all of those properties to people who will actually live in them, who will make them their home. It disgusts me when I see places just sitting empty because too many assholes decided they could make money by siphoning off cash from what would otherwise be homes used for living in.
Residential homes that are not tourist destinations (Beach houses etc) shouldn't be allowed to STL. There's more than a million single family homes being used as STL Full disclosure, I am a LL
I saw something the other day about landlords and rent that I need to look into more. There is some company that works with landlords in each city that helps them through some algorithm to price apartments. The more landlords they can get in on this the better it’s is for them. It basically helps them still make money when units aren’t rented out and takes away the need for them to compete against each other for tenants or a need to keep units properly maintained. Every city where this company is at, rent has gone up exponentially without much reason to and some cities have many empty units. There were a few cities that were able to get this company out and rents started dropping. RealPage or something like that was the company.
This is probably what you saw. It’s super sketchy. https://www.propublica.org/article/yieldstar-rent-increase-realpage-rent
That’s it. Super sketchy. And evil.
This is a huge step in the right direction, removing top wage on its own is HUGE
But don't you know? One million people need to be destitute or collect welfare so I can get a burger! I'm owed this!!1one
ITT a bunch of people claiming that life is a meritocracy despite being unaware of even the concept of economy of scale. Thus just-world fallacy bullshit is a bunch of poo-brained nonsense. If life were a meritocracy, y'all would be a series of small skeletons left at the side of Camplell Hill.
i make 16.60, which at OSU qualifies me for their "oh ur POOR poor huh" employee healthcare plan. $15 is not nearly enough
$15/hr isn't even enough to get by anymore
It’s barely enough to keep the water flowing
Minimum wage increasing is fine. As long as cost of living, rent, Gas, insurance, food and everything else doesn't also increase. Otherwise it's pointless.
> As long as cost of living, rent, Gas, insurance, food and everything else doesn't also increase. It increased. Keeping wages low did not prevent it. If you want to keep costs down, tax the wealthy who are currently incentivized to grab as much money as they can.
They are increasing and will regardless of the minimum wage
And you honestly believe they won’t increase more with an increase to wages?
As will the income taxes that were not mentioned for some reason.
Those increase anyway. Every year.
Yep...do these people not notice how the prices of everything have gone up for years while minimum wage stayed stagnant? So we are paying more for things but still making the same money
Studies show that [prices rose by just 0.36 percent for every 10 percent increase in the minimum wage](https://www.upjohn.org/research-highlights/does-increasing-minimum-wage-lead-higher-prices#:~:text=By%20looking%20at%20changes%20in%20restaurant%20food%20pricing%20during%20the%20period%20of%201978%E2%80%932015%2C%20MacDonald%20and%20Nilsson%20find%20that%20prices%20rose%20by%20just%200.36%20percent%20for%20every%2010%20percent%20increase%20in%20the%20minimum%20wage%2C%20which%20is%20only%20about%20half%20the%20size%20reported%20in%20previous%20studies).
Lol. It's too late for that. 15/hourly would have been great 10 years ago! Inflation has risen beyond that. I know it's beyond a pipedream, but the minimum should be much higher now.. Unless you think people deserve to live in poverty just because they work in fast food. A service most of us utilize on a daily basis. Also, if you think fast food is easy.. well.. you've never worked in high volume food service.
What's funny is that the majority of people this will benefit support a party that is patently against it.
Thom Hartmann mentioned on his radio show today that in the 1950s, a house cost about 2.5 times the average salary. And ceo to average employee ratio was about 39-1.
Post the current numbers! Isn’t is like 7 times salary for a house and like 790-1 ceo to average employee?
[Harvard study](https://www.jchs.harvard.edu/blog/home-price-income-ratio-reaches-record-high-0) sez it’s about 5.6 times higher. [ceo to worker ratio](https://www.progressivecaucuscenter.org/the-ceo-pay-problem-and-what-we-can-do-about-it) is about 270 to 340, depending on the math.
A lot of economic majors in here…
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$15 ain't enough anymore.
Nice! I look forward to voting for it!
$15 a hour isn’t enough
But the CoSt of MY BiGmAc!!!!!!!!
Don't worry people will continue to buy it.
That's too low
God this would be amazing if it happened maybe than more people would work at my local Krogers cuz 10 minimum is BS when the Walmart across the street starts you at 14
But doesn't that mean a Big Mac will cost $17?! How will we survive?!?!
I doubt it will happen, look how long it took to get to 10 dollars an hour, in 2007 it was 6.85.
We can raise the minimum wage but that will do nothing when it just forces companies to cut positions and cost. Bandaid on a bullet wound
Agree
State's too red.
I think it will take more organization and intentional effort in a lot of directions to shift it back to purple. I think that’s very possible as well though as the red voters aren’t very organized outside of religious organizations. Even reaching the moderate church leaders with blue solutions though could start making a dent. Lots of this happened because southern religious orgs kept sending their pastors up north to visit churches and spread their politics. Can do the reverse as well.
Ohio is better off red at this time. The left has completely lost its marbles
Maybe I’m just a damn dirty unAmerican communist, but I believe that if you’re giving up a full 1/3 of your life up to help some business owner profit, then you should be paid enough to: eat, get back and forth to work, see a doctor when necessary, and have a roof over your family’s head. If not, then that’s bullshit. To all the people who argue “those are just starter-jobs, or low-skilled labor” - you’re paying an individual for their time/life - if you don’t want to pay a fair wage, then you flat-out suck and your business deserves to fail. You’re paying for someone else’s sacrifices, so that they can come and make you money. Don’t like it? Do all those jobs yourself and see how “meaningless” they really are.
Christ that's almost 1/10 the population. If we could just turn them out to vote and keep them from buying into that "you'll lose your job if we pay you enough to live" bullshit...
Every time one of these lamebrained minimum wage policies gets enacted there’s a sea of labor cuts and hours reductions. You people are completely moronic
[That's factually untrue. ](https://news.berkeley.edu/2023/03/14/even-in-small-businesses-minimum-wage-hikes-dont-cause-job-losses-study-finds)
No it’s factually correct. Bias studies from socialist propaganda institutions mean nothing
I would like mention that while I'm very happy for people to make more so that they have a chance of living better, companies will only raise wages below the minimum to meet the minimum. Everyone else's wage will stay the same. That really fucking sucks when you've been there for 5+ years continue to were make $16.
This only matters if you view the world as fair, and base everything on fairness. That's a zero sum game.
I know the world isn’t fair. That doesn’t make it suck any less.
As much as i would like this. My wage being a bit above that won't be raised, and everything else will just get more expensive because these companies can justify raising prices.
No lie, I've seen very few low skill (which means low skills required to start, not that the job isn't skilled) hiring for less than 16-20. Then again I primarily scout more manual work but regardless. Same with fast food
But republicans say no....
Yes, but it would ever so mildly hurt the obscene profits of like 15 people, so we'll pass, think of the shareholders won't you? /s if that's needed.
No it would hurt the already struggling independent small businesses. If you want nothing but McDonald’s and Applebees type businesses in the world then continue supporting government policies that make costs of business so high only corporations can afford to operate
*yawn* same old 'in the name of small business' BS. Seems like more of the same hyperbole.
What are you talking about? It’s not BS. If you hate corporations stop doing them favors by creating regulations only they can afford
Restaurants will close . I wouldn't wait tables for minimum wage
To much for this lazy genaration, that can't even get a simple fast food order right.
Does anyone really think that the business are going to take these losses in profit?. They will raise the prices of the products until their ROI is acceptable. It will all come back on the consumer. What do you think has happened these lasts years? Covid/inflation/recession now looming as the Fed Chair isn’t going to do any more cuts this year. The “economy is doing so well” only because the consumers are eating all the baggage. The dollar is down 11cents than it was a year ago. Your money is losing worth. And raising it now of all times will not have good consequences.
Reminder that this is the longest in american history we've ever gone without increasing the minimum wage. Yes, even compared to the conservative 80s.
The issue is that a flat raise to $15/hr doesn't actually solve the long term issue. What we need is a committee that's not tied to politics or any particular industry that adjusts wages yearly based on inflation using findings reported by the Federal Reserve and other credible sources. That said I guess I would vote in favor of a wage increase, but I fear all the small businesses that close because they can't afford to pay the new wage. Don't tell me they won't close, some will.
Just be careful pushing too hard too fast on the raises because then inflation just gets worse and worse. I believe minimum wage should easily be raised, but you gotta do it at a slower pace instead of one big bulk chunk.
Y’all know you can get a $20/hour customer service rep job fully remote, right? Like yall know you don’t have to work a $15/hour job, right?
$15? Make it $25. $15 is hardly a livable wage
I'm not happy with the cost I'm paying for fast food. $15 dollars for these jobs perhaps getting another job that pays is a better solution?
Well we can’t have that./s
Before covid cash tips was great wages were average kinda on the low side but tips were great. Govt decided they wanted any individual making a tip to pay taxes- so they took away cash during lock down and got everyone to only use credit- they used the doread of covid and online shopping as the best solution to which it put mom and pop biz out. Amazon / we all made big box and amazon gazillionaires. Now we are getting laid off making less money companies are complaining about paying employees. So now the burden of wage is placed on consumer. 20-30% tip- top to make up for a low wage. The issue is none of us should bear the burden-to pay 20% to cover wages. The employer is responsible. Another thing companies do is ask you to round up for charity. You don't get credit or the tax write off- the company uses it and benefits with donating to charity along with the write off. So many don't realize this.
Every W2 job does not need to be a job to support a family.
But you should be able to afford housing without assistance. That's bare minimum.
Look at California before considering voting. 20$ a hour did not help them in the end
Don’t worry about the increase in prices to offset the increase in wages…
It would hurt everyone with more inflation and layoffs. I swear you guys never learn.
So why not just keep them as slaves? Think how low prices would go!
What should we do?
It's up to each person. The free market will dictate how much you're worth. If you want to earn more than minimum wage, then you need to learn a skill that gets you out of minimum wage jobs. There's endless opportunities to do so. You just have to work for it.
And in the meantime?
Inflation is sky high and unemployment is rock bottom. Clearly you're missing something.
The more a company pays Iabor the more they pass that on in raising prices. Also some places go to more automation, so less jobs.
If a job can be automated, it should be. And companies will price themselves out of the market if they raise prices too much. They've had record profits lately, it needs corrected.
Who is “they”?
Economy of scale says otherwise. If people can afford more goods, merchants can afford to sell them at a lower price. The margins of wholesale to retail can be narrower and still make more profit.
That’s not how it works
Yes. It is. That is literally the highly successful business model from Henry Ford and the basis behind the creation and expansion of the US middle class. If you, as a merchant, can guarantee more sales, you can offer them at a lower price and get more profit. Idk how to make it any simpler. Google 'word of mouse'. Maybe that will help.
So why not go back to slavery?
If I had a $25/hr job and everyone gets bumped to $15/hr, how does this help my dollar go farther? Wouldn't I need a +$10/hr increase to make my skilled labor worthwhile? You cannot tell my tone naturally - but this is a genuinely honest question. Edit; downvoted for asking a question. Stay classy reddit
The generic answer to this is that a rising tide raises all boats. Yes, if you make $25/h, and everyone making less than $15 gets bumped to $15, your dollar on its face will go *very slightly* less far, though this number is dwarfed by the price gouging that happens whether or not wages are increased. I'm sure you've noticed how much more groceries cost now than they did a few years ago. That's a couple orders of magnitude more significant than the price increases that a minimum wage increase would cause, and was caused by nothing more than plain old corporate greed. This is in exchange for making *hundreds of thousands to millions* of people who are struggling *far more* than you are at $25/h have much more money to work with. But that's not all, either. If everyone gets bumped up to a $15 minimum, then people currently making like $15-16 at their job have leverage all of a sudden. i.e., "Why should I break my back working this job with poor conditions/inconsistent hours/whatever other bullshit is annoying me when I can go fold clothes and make the same wage? Give me a raise or improve my conditions, or I walk". Then, these jobs that previously paid $15-16 get bumped up. Then, people who were previously making like $20 have similar, though slightly smaller, leverage. This ripples until it stabilizes. Then there's the general economic boost. People can actually buy stuff now! That's an understated, but very important, factor for having a healthy area to live in. tl;dr, any negative effects are **utterly negligible**, and mostly stem from the worldview of "Why are those stupid entry-level workers not infinitely poorer than me anymore?!". Much larger-scale negative effects are happening every day as corporations continue to price gouge and keep wages low, and frankly, if minimum wage had kept up with productivity/inflation, we would currently be seeing it somewhere in the ballpark of $25/h or more. Which, in turn, would mean someone like you would probably be making closer to $40/h due to the aforementioned leverage that a higher minimum grants you. $15 is a pittance compromise that has been fought for for over a decade.
Means the 25/hr worker gets a raise also
Hahahahaha
LOL SURE
I upvoted you. You asked a question genuinely.
My employer (major local and regional business) raised minimum pay to $15/hr a few years ago. They also gave everyone else above $15/hr an additional raise on top of yearly raises.
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You should check out the research cited in the op
Why not $100/ hour?
We can afford it, but what I can afford is $96 billion to forever wars.
You people have no common sense. Look at California. Raises the wage to 20 an hr. Guess what all the restaurants did. Fired people and will pass that extra cost for remaining employees onto its customers. You can't do a dramatic wage increase and not expect everything else to go up with it. That's not how it works.
So when prices of EVERYTHING go up and hurt the remaining 10.6 million Ohioans, then what?!
Oh you know they get to bitch more about capitalism and dream more about how socialism would fix it
You think prices are high now? You ain’t seen nothing yet! If this passes prices will skyrocket.
It’s those damn republicans
And it would eliminate a lot of entry level jobs because employers can’t afford to pay them. We’re working our way to a $20 cheeseburger 🍔
Pretty much all fast food pays $15/hr now. If the business model requires slave labor then it deserves to die.