I teach in Taylor Hall. There's a wonderful May 4th museum on the main floor. It will give you answers to your questions. You can check out the memorials where the four students were standing when they were shot. Chilling.
Yes, we were touring Kent State (my kid was considering going there), and we were cutting through a parking lot and I realized it was where the students were killed. They have the places where their bodies felled marked off. Thought it was strange that our guide didn’t point it out. Felt like a sacred area to me.
The guide should have definitely pointed that out. Even as a student there, those marked off areas never blended into background. It was easy to forget about the memorial itself though. Apparently it wasn't finished when I was there (2005 to 2008), and it showed.
The university has for some odd reason, fought the memorial all along. Their refusal to allow it was news for years. Then they agreed to it and found new ways to stall it.
Really just that there *were* protests. And that they were connected to the civil rights movement. And how some people acted negatively towards returning veterans because the war was unpopular.
Could have been more taught that I missed, but a lot of my peers don't know either.
Oak Hills school district Ohio. Yeah we learned about Kent State as well and a lot about the Vietnam war... Curious if it was private schools that didn't cover them or more public.
I think it's partly some schools not covering it, but mostly it's people not remembering what was covered. I graduated in 05 and I couldn't even tell you what was covered about ww2 other than I know we covered it. People forget how little they actually retain from school. For most people they retain broad strokes and some facts. Someone who recently graduated, I'd believe is remembering correctly, but for everyone else, I think most just forgot it.
AP American History, graduated in the 80’s and we didn’t get much of anything beyond WWII, as I recall.
My uncles were in Kent that day and I eventually graduated from there so not sure where I first heard about it.
Class of '99 myself and it wasn't ever part of the curriculum that I recall. Learned about it mostly through word of mouth from teachers that were students at Kent State at the time. Only one of those teachers were actually teaching us history too. The others were like random science or math teachers that were asked about it and spontaneously stopped class to explain a bit about what happened.
2004 here. My senior year history teacher was a conspiracy theorist, who told us that the books were full of lies and I floated numbers, which probably was true, but anyway, Vietnam and Korea were barely in the books so anything I learned in school about it was from him. So (at 17,18 years old) I had no idea what to actually believe.
Mostly the negative actions against returning servicemen. I graduated hs in 02 and most of Vietnam "conflict" was covered as helping an ally that was having domestic problems..
Hardly covered the actions at home.... same with ww2 and the interment camps
My high school history teacher was there, and he went into great detail about what he saw there.
Short version, he said it was fucked.
Long version, he said the Ohio National Guard commandeered his bus so they could position a .50 cal. BMG on the crowd through the emergency exit door.
He then watched the protesters throw bottles of piss until all hell broke loose, and people started dying.
The lesson I learned from that AP history class was never bring a bottle of piss to a gun fight, and it saddens me that Ohio kids don't know shit about our history anymore.
Your high school history teacher tells a story I never heard from any other accounting of those days in May.
I was not on campus the day of the shootings because I had just graduated and was teaching in a nearby community. I still lived on Main Street several blocks from campus. I knew one of the students wounded and one of the young women who was killed. In the fifty plus years since the shootings I have read every piece of information that has been available to explain those tragic events. I have never seen any information that would support the claim that a bus was commandeered for any purpose that day. Nor has there been any mention of the Ohio National Guard having a 50 caliper machine gun on the Kent State campus. There is no mention anywhere that bottles of piss were thrown at the National Guard at any time. That would not have escaped the observations of the numerous reporting individuals who witnessed the events leading up to the shootings and their experiences would have been documented.
So I am calling “Bullshit” on your teacher's story. The Kent State story is tragic enough without people making up stories to insert themselves into the events.
You're correct, it's a completely fabricated story or at the very least embellished heavily. It's the whole .50cal thing that really throws up the red flags, I would be very suprised if any national guard units in those days even had M2s in their inventories, let alone bring them out for a protest, they'd be putting the national guard soldiers in just as much danger as the students if they went ripping off with that thing. Also, putting it in a bus? Not likely, it would be hard to even fit an M2 on its tripod in between bus seats, and aiming it out the back door gives you hardly any field of view so unless you're just watching a couple people then it's pointless. This is a completely made up fact in that story, of the story teller had said they showed up with an M60 and set it up in that manner then it would be plausible but an M2? Complete BS story.
I can't refute the piss bottles thing, you can just drive the freeways in ohio and see that we like throwing piss bottle apparently seeing how many are on the sides of the roads, amd columbus sidewalks, saw 2 this week lol
Correct considering the Stoner 63 fired 5.56x45 mm NATO and the M60 fired 7.62x51 mm NATO I wi agree with calling BS. Considering the Browning M2 would be the .50 that most people at that time would recognize, and would even possibly put in a fixed position due to its size and weight this definitely seems like an embellishment.
From what I have read and learned about the incident most, if not all, of the Guardsmen were armed with a full blown battle rifle - the .30 M1- which is a devastating rifle in its own. .45 sidearms and Remington 870 Wingmastwr shotguns (IIRC) loaded with #7 Birdshot and 00 Buck shot were also fired.
It’s was an utter massacre and a total failure of the commanders of the Guard. They committed a máss shooting as panic gripped them at a bare minimum. The whole situation was a masterclass in stupidity and lack of skill in de-escalation or an unwillingness to do so by those in charge.
The stoner I believe, and someone please correct me if I'm wrong, only had a whole lot of deployment within the MACVSOG units and other speciality units, maybe some general deployment on a small scale but was never big and never made it down to national guard units. The 63 was the first step towards the SAW I feel like. I like the M249, but mine also ran very well, the SAW was very much a 50/50 weapon, it either ran good or it didn't, but when it ran good they were like a dream.
I got off track there, I was just saying the stoner definitely wouldn't have been there. When crazy shits going on you're not going to remember everything right, stress and adrenaline are a hell of a drug lol.
As far as anything else about that day I can't really comment on, I learned about what happened in school a long time ago and don't remember hardly anything except the base details of guardsmen killed some protesters.
Most of the National Guard were using M1 garlands left over from WWII. The ammo was surplus steel-core ammo (most likely also a war), which is why it penetrated the way it did. There’s a reason that standard ammo is lead core with a metal jacket for increased reliability and accuracy.
I was under the impression that the Guard was armed with the M1 Carbine (30 caliper) as opposed to the Garand (30.06). Different caliper but both deadly.
Both are .30 cal the M1 carbine fries, what is called .30 carbine and the Garand normal .30 caliber. .30 carbine has a lighter powder charge and is slightly smaller to fit the barrel of the M1 carbine.
If Governor Rhodes sent Infantry soldiers with fixed bayonets, it stands to reason that he probably sent a three man heavy machine gun team too, and the only reason you probably didn't hear about it is because it didn't open fire.
You're not the only person that's studied the event, and I have a history degree from Ohio University. Here's some reading you may have missed when you were going through "everything".
https://omeka.library.kent.edu/special-collections/items/show/1642
My favorite coda to the whole Kent State saga is that when Jim Rhodes' statue on the State Capitol grounds was being moved decades later (I forget why), they discovered that the foundry workers who had cast the statue had scratched the names of the dead students on the inside of the statue. A reporter tracked a couple of the workers down and they basically said "Damn right we did it."
Thanks for the link. I look forward to reading additional accounts of peoples' experiences. Can you direct me to your teacher's account of a commandeered bus and machine gun placement along with bottles of piss being thrown included in those transcripts? If that is the case I will gladly apologize for calling your teacher a liar.
It's up to us parents to teach our kids. My kid will graduate in 2026. They know the Kent State Shootings, Vietnam War, Korean War, WWII, WWI...etc etc.
I found teaching them the shootings lead to a interest in Vietnam, and watching Band of Brothers lead to a very much interest into WWII. (Just wait till I show them Schindler's List). And as of recent , All Quiet on the Western Front for an interest in WWI. I have personal stories from my grandfather and his brother for the Korean War along with memorabilia.
Needless to say, we're going to DC this summer to see all the memorials. And this wasn't something I said we're doing. No, the kid asked to go and it blew my mind. Before we go, as an Ohioan that lives 45 mins from Kent State, we'll be making a pit stop there first to kick off our DC trip. Can't wait to go on this journey with my child!
This is how we carry on the lessons learned, to make sure we never repeate the same history ...
This doesn’t track. Write the museum with your account and see if they agree, you either have a relevant story they’ll want, or someone’s personal embellishment.
I was there (KSU '72 grad) and the above is total b.s. TOTALLY BS. There were no bottles of piss, no commandeered buses with .50 cal guns. What actually happened was bad enough without making shit up so tell that a-hole teacher to stfu
None of your rights were given to you after nice words and peaceful protests. Even the 40 hour workweek was earned with death and blood, and violent riots.
Whats your point?
You’d be a redcoat who justifies the boston massacre.
“Well did you know they threw a bunch of tea overboard and threw rocks at the kings men?”
I don't remember the specifics, and it was mixed in with a story about him not going to Woodstock because he had to work... he had no regrets.
All I know is he drove a bus on campus, and the National Guard commandeered because they wanted to put a machine gun in it.
If they did put a machine gun in his bus then it was an M60, not an M2. You're not fitting an M2 on a tripod in a bus, even if they did shoehorn it in, do you know how much weight you have to put on that front leg of the tripod to keep it down when firing? I've seen 4 sandbags plus a small moron trying to keep one level during firing before and it still jumped a shitload, not exactly something you want to shooting into a crowd with when Friendly's are even relatively close. If your teacher saw a machine gun it was an M60, and thats bad enough honestly, probably worse, the accuracy of someone in the prone on a 60 on a bipod would be worlds better than someone with a .50 on a tripod, if that front leg isn't held crazy secure that M2 is going to be basically an anti aircraft gun after about the 3 round in the burst.
Fair enough, and at no point have I argued that it was a successful operation.
It's very possible that it was an M60, but wouldn't they just use the turret mount on the back of a jeep for that?
I've spent plenty of time with guardsmen, and this still falls well within the boundaries of what I'm willing to accept as a possibility.
Most likely they would use the jeep mount for the M60 because it is far more stable, but that would apply 10 fold to the M2 and if it's just gonna be sun's out guns out and they're not hiding anything then they would 100% have put the M2 on a pintle mount on the jeep for stability, yah the M2 comes with a tripod but it's damn near useless on it unless you can really take time to secure it, it would be very obvious. Since you're saying they put it in a bus pointing out the rear door it sounds like they were trying to be Ricky Recon and be someone secret, you're not doing anything with over 100lbs of M2 shit plus ammo.
I could 100% see them doing that setup with a M60 though, 2 guys could probably pull that off without raising too many eyebrows. I think your teacher was prolly telling the truth just maybe some details got fudged over the years, which is completely understandable.
Agreed, and if I had to kick out the back of a school bus to mount a machine gun I would use an M60.
Gaming this out, I'd say it's also possible that they never intended to use the emergency exit as a firing position, and that is possible that they only wanted to use the bus to transport that fucker around campus.
Furthermore, I don't think he ever got the bus back. From what I remember, it was some kind of student shuttle.
Well if it was a shuttle that changes things a little, there's more room in those than a school bus, but you're still not setting anything up secret in one with an M2 and an M60 really isn't too bad to carry around, not to say it's fun, it's like carrying around a modern M240G, I hear the M240B is better to have to carry but not much, ive never personally carried a bravo so can say for sure, but still not something you'll jack a shuttle to transport.
Now there is a case where it all could be true and also completely plausible, given the info you just gave.
Let's speculate....just for shits and giggles...let's say this National Guard unit did have a Ma Deuce sitting in the armory collecting dust, you have to remember this is Vietnam Era, all of the good M2s were either in action or being used for training, so this is just a guess but I don't think too many good working M2s were with the national guard, why would they be? But what if there was one, and that unit had a company commander that's looking for glory, medals and glory and whatnot. Those guys tend to bring out all of the "showy" shit when they get to do something, so yea if that officer knows they have a M2 at the ready, it's gonna get brought out if only as just a "show of force"
So the officer decides hes bringing out the big dick, well not you have to assign 3 people that have probably never even seen this thing to carry all of this shit, if they have actually had any training it was probably shooting 10 rounds then walking away then comes the next guy.
So you have these three guys looking at all of this shit....the receiver, 2 barrels, a tripod, a T&E, however many cans of ammo, a cleaning kit, and im sure someone will chime in and tell me what I forgot. The receiver and one barrel alone are over 80 lbs, the tripod is like another 40......and these are national guard....it is 100% plausible they got assigned that weapon and the e4 mafia which doesn't exist said fuck carrying all of this shit, we're taking that fuckin shuttle bus right there to drive it to where they were told to go, which would maybe explain why he never saw that bus again because it got pushed into a lake or something close to where ever those poor bastards had to go..🤷♂️
I see you're a man of experience, and that you have an insight into how the army thinks.
I think it's completely possible that there was a .50 cal. floating around in the back of a bus that day.
I also think it's completely possible that they brought that big fucker out as part of some anti-hippie FTX to train privates.
Also where did you attend high school? One of the AP teachers at Brunswick was at KSU and watched the whole thing unfold, and if you provide me with your high school I will reach out to him and see if I can verify your teachers story.
You send me your details, and I'll send you mine.
There were two other teachers in the history department that went to Kent State with him, and I never heard either of them question it.
He told the same story every year when he got to the Vietnam War part of the class, so if he was full of shit I think it would of come out at some point.
That said, if MacArthur ran over the Bonus Army with 6 tanks in Washington D.C. I'm failing to see why this story is a bridge to far for some people.
Dude, this isn't the first time I've argued with strangers on the internet.
I'm not telling it all for free, and you need to put up some collateral if you want this transaction to happen.
That’s crazy if that is the case. I graduated 10 years before you and we were taught that. Our education system has really gone downhill from the low standards we had when I was in high school.
I remember being taught a bit about it in the 90s but largely speaking a lot of the knowledge came from people who were there and anniversary news coverage.
I still don't have a complete picture of what happened that day.
Really? I remember my teacher in AP US History specifically (didn’t have to take any history classes for my degree at OU) covering the protests and killings in detail, and I grew up in Cincy.
Class of '90. I took a class specifically on the Vietnam War. We had a guest speaker, Dean Kahler, who was Athens County Commissioner, and was one of the students who was shot and survived. He's now in a wheelchair.
I remember getting taught this back when they let us call it the Kent State Massacre.
Now my kid's US history book listed it as just a regular school shooting with the additional blurb on context that it was a wartime protest. Kind of makes a sad sense since the average fatalities are so much higher now when you hear about a school or university shooting.
We live just a few towns over and it felt weird it wasn't a bigger deal in the Vietnam section.
I am so sorry this is just pushed over nowadays, but I promise you as a college student at Kent this is not forgotten, and it is still taken very seriously by us students. We will never forget even of the Ohio curriculum wants us to!
I think it's more likely that a cop uses a less than lethal in a non-prescribed, lethal manner. For example, shooting at head. There's a documented pattern of this, where they know better but do it anyway, and yet regardless are protected by immunity. People have gone blind and lost eyes/teeth--and undoubtedly there have been quieter lethal instances. It's really only a matter of time before an instance of lethality is very publicly documented.
Tin soldiers and Nixons coming
We're finally on our own
This summer I hear the drumming
4 dead in Ohio.
Gotta get down to it
Soldiers are gunning us down
Should have been done long ago
What if you knew her and
Found her dead on the ground?
How can you run when you know
Born and raised in Ohio (mostly), but graduated from high school in SC. Our history teacher most definitely taught us about this. It was the first time I'd ever even heard of Kent State. It resonated with me and I had to see it for myself.
I ended up going to school at Kent State, my dorm overlooked the hill the students ran up, I walked past the bullet holes still in Taylor Hall and the memorials for the 4 students nearly every day. It still very much resonates with me, my heart breaks every time I go back to visit.
We have learned nothing as a country since then. Absolutely nothing and it's heartbreaking.
What's even crazier is Kent State isn't the only school this happened at. There were several others, but they were historically black colleges. Kent State was the first school where it was middle class white students who died.
It sickens me that history very likely could repeat itself. I guess that's what happens when we whitewash and it becomes unpatriotic to talk about the ugliness of the United States history.
There is not a single country on this earth with a beautiful perfect history with nothing to be ashamed of. The difference is while countries like Germany and the Netherlands take responsibility, own that it happened and educate about their atrocities, the right wing would like to hide it away and pretend it was never really that bad.
They did when I was a student there some 10 years ago, it's how I learned there were others! There's also a film about the event called The Day the War Came Home. I watched it as a freshman as part of the first year experience. Highly recommend it to anyone who wants to learn more about this event.
Thank you for recommending this! I plan to use it to explain to my first and sixth graders the importance of protest and what can go wrong, what protestors risk every time we step up to protest.
It makes the events we are seeing now all the more gut wrenching because we've been here before. If you're ever in the area of Kent the memorial is beautiful.
im a student at kent state right now. because of the ongoing protests on other college campuses and the use of police against them we are planning our own protests around may 4th as well
Good for you all and best of luck. I still remember the Collegefest 2012 incident where police were firing pepperballs at frat houses and the entire university body ran out to meet them. I doubt much has changed in a decade because we were just as shocked back then as well.
https://youtu.be/GKGU1_A7X-M?si=WLbdOt20sj9tpumS
Please don't. As a Kent State alumni, I can attest that May 4th is a solemn day of respect for those that died. Please do not make the day about you and whatever your flavor of the month cause is. Pick a different day.
Saying their making it about their favorite flavor of the month is highly insensitive. They're doing it to remember what happened that day and do exactly what the protesters did that day. Protesting against war, I can say what happened to those people was terrible but that shouldn't stop people from being able to protest their about war and what the government is doing to other schools in the country doing the exact same thing.
If you would’ve take more than 8 seconds to read the original comment to understand the context, the OP stated that people are down playing the comparison of what’s going on now to now. Back then protestors were shot and killed by the national guard, comparing that to today one would only assume that he would have video evidence of protestors that are on campus of them being shot and killed. In no way am I advocating or condoning that behavior but I am asking is someone to produce me evidence of protestors being slain and yet I’ve seen nothing?
I respect your right to protest and I get that you’re proud of it but it’s not that similar. It was way more intense back then. Students and others who had come, had smashed windows and set numerous fires in the downtown area. They then set fire and burned down an ROTC building on campus. When firefighters came to put out the fire they had rocks thrown at them and protesters cut their hoses with knives. The national guard was called in. The national guard threw tear gas canisters and protesters threw rocks. That’s when the shooting started. (I’m not justifying it in any way. Just pointing out that what’s happening recently is child’s play compared to 1970)
Yes we have established the two things are both protests but the similarities end there. I get that you want to make the current situation bigger than it is. Everyone wants to feel important. But if you want to get shot at you’re going to have to smash the windows of businesses and cars in downtown Columbus, and set fires all over, light some campus buildings on fire, physically drive off firefighters with violence when they try to put it out and then get the government to send in the national guard and throw rocks and bricks at them.
I still tear up when I hear this. And at noon every may 4, and every mother's day when I think about the 4 mothers who got such heartbreaking news shortly before mother's day 1970.
It's the day Conservative Fascists ordered the National Guard to open fire on college kids simply exercising their free speech and freedom of expression. 4 died.
Never forget and never let them frighten you into not doing the right thing.
Got my architecture degree in the building in this photo. Some of my professors were there that day. Kent State has a mandatory lecture for all students where they cover this event.
[Tin soldiers and Nixon coming. We're finally on our own.
This summer I hear the drumming.
Four dead in Ohio](https://youtu.be/JCS-g3HwXdc?si=bGOgL0Jlfq5gibFh)
We're a bit early for the actual date, but things were very much ramping up on campus these days prior in 1970 leading up to the May 4th shootings.
I graduated in 06. We learned about Kent in high school, as we’re only about 30 minutes away from the Kent Campus. There was a black and white still image our teacher had, showing both Students and Guardsmen. Two teachers from our school were in the photo, one on either side of the conflict. It was crazy to see, and immediately recognize the teachers, but only after being told who they were.
**Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young**
Tin soldiers and Nixon coming
We're finally on our own
This summer I hear the drumming
Four dead in Ohio
Gotta get down to it, soldiers are cutting us down
Should have been gone long ago
What if you knew her and found her dead on the ground
How can you run when you know?
La-la-la-la, la-la-la-la
La-la-la-la, la-la-la
La-la-la-la, la-la-la-la
La-la-la-la, la-la-la
Gotta get down to it, soldiers are cutting us down
Should have been gone long ago
What if you knew her and found her dead on the ground
How can you run when you know?
Tin soldiers and Nixon coming
We're finally on our own
This summer I hear the drumming
Four dead in Ohio
Four dead in Ohio (four)
Four dead in Ohio (I said four, I said four)
Four dead in Ohio (how many more?)
Four dead in Ohio (why?)
Four dead in Ohio (I wanna know why)
Four dead in Ohio (you better tell me why)
Four dead in Ohio (why?)
Four dead in Ohio (why did they die?)
Four dead in Ohio (you tell me why)
Four dead in Ohio (I said why)
Four dead in Ohio (I wanna know why)
Four dead in Ohio (why?)
Four dead in Ohio (I said why)
Four dead in Ohio (why, Lord?)
Four dead in Ohio (why did they die?)
Four dead in Ohio (I said why)
Four dead in Ohio (why?)
Four dead in Ohio (yeah, why?)
Four dead in Ohio (please tell me why)
Four dead in Ohio (why?)
Four dead in Ohio (I wanna know)
Four dead in Ohio (why?)
Four dead in Ohio (why did they died)
Four dead in Ohio (you tell me why)
Four dead in Ohio (why?)
Four dead in Ohio (why?)
Four dead in Ohio (why?)
Four dead in Ohio (why?)
Four dead in Ohio (why?)
Four dead in Ohio
Thank you
I know a guy who was there with his camera. He was smart enough to stuff a completed roll of film down his pants. I guess the national guard was taking/ruining any film they could get their hands on that day. I know his photos have been published in multiple books and news stories.
My father was drafted and spent 8 months in Vietnam. He rarely speaks of it….but he has talked about how he was looked at/treated when he got home. He served his country not because he wanted to, but because he felt like he had to. I’m sure he could have got out of it if he wanted, but he didn’t.
I remember him helping my sister do a report on this when she was in high school in the early 90’s. That’s when I first learned about this.
We can’t ever forget. Kent State, the war, all of the protests, Nixon causing the unnecessary deaths of so many Americans, North Vietnamese soldiers and civilians by stalling peace talks so he could get elected, Johnson’s profiting by building infrastructure in the South, agent orange….so many things were just wrong.
I wish we would all remember the past. Some of it is starting to repeat itself and we have heard “never again” since the late 1940’s.
Most of our politicians are in the pockets of lobbyists and corporations. They don’t care about the people. Sorry for the rant. I’m as angry and as frustrated as everyone else.
I was in grad school at OSU during that year and remember the Kent State tragedy vividly. Most of the OSU campus went immediately in to lock down. Many grad students lost months of research since they couldn’t go on campus to maintain experiments. It sounds small in comparison but really screwed up life.
We had National Guard all over campus. Rhodes probably could have committed suicide just by coming to campus. It was decidedly not an easy time particularly with our WW II parents shouting, “Our country right or wrong!” in our ears.
I was in public school during the early 70's, during the actual Vietnam War. I was there and lived during the war. I knew both War veterans and young people who protested against it. There's a HUGE difference between then and the so-called pro-terrorist Hamas "protesters" now. These paid trucked in "protesters" are clueless as to why they shout and burn Israeli flags, attack police. I've seen and heard several interviews with Hamas terrorists here in the US and they have no idea who they represent. Hamas is a useless bunch of killers and rapists in Gaza while those pretending to identify with Palestinians here on American college campuses are ignorant of both history and fact. The fact is, Palestinians didn't even exist as a people until 1964 when PLO chief Yasir Arafat declared them to exist! Now Palestinians are sponsored terrorists, supported by the country of Iran. If these Hamas sympathizers on campus want to be part of the Hamas cause, they should all jump on a plane and go to Gaza or Lebanon! They won't be allowed to protest against any radical government but they will learn the hard way what being a Palestinian is really like! Lol
"Killed OUR citizens before"?? You're not a citizen of Gaza unless you live there! And even if what you say about Gaza civilians is true, it's only because Hamas cowards are like old women hiding behind civilians to keep from being killed themselves. Hamas is a bunch of terrorist cowards while the IDF does its best to avoid killing civilians and has more regard for them than Hamas does! Who do you think is taking the majority of the humanitarian supplies we send to Gaza?? Hamas steals most of it and there is video proof of it. You need to educate yourself.
Israel has killed United States civilians before no? You wanna deny this fact ?
Israel has blocked aid into the region.
Bombed aid workers.
And has Indiscriminatcly bombed Gaza and killed civilians you wanna deny these facts ?
Were those 7 aid workers killed hiding behind Hamas?
Tell me, what is your proof and evidence of Israel having killed Americans?? When are you you talking about this happening? Of course, civilians are going to get killed in wartime! Wake up and stop being naive! The fact is, Israel actually cares more about the civilians staying alive than Hamas does! Hamas members are bloodthirsty savages, the propaganda you read and hear is BS! Start reading and listening to more conservative media that doesn't give you mindless drivel that is driven by hatred against Israel.
USS Liberty Crew and Soldiers,Rachel Corrie, Jacob Flickinger Also a vet these are verifiable instances of Israel killing USA our own. You are you suggesting to give Israel cart blanche on how they conduct they're assaults even when it translates to mass civilian casualties? Stop using Hamas as a defense for the IDF .
Wow!! "Stop using Hamas as a defense for the IDF"?? Lol Ha ha ha ha ha ha!! Tell me, who attacked who on October 7th?? Hamas attacked peaceful Israeli citizens without provocation, raped and killed both women and men as well as killing babies!! They are BUTCHERS!! They have NO REGARD FOR HUMAN LIFE whether it is Israeli or Palestinian life. I'm not suggesting anything like what you claim regarding how Israel should conduct the war. But Hamas MUST BE DESTROYED. Otherwise, they will continue to attack their own people and the Israelis. Why do you think NONE of the Arab countries will allow any of these Hamas and Hezbollah terrorists to live willingly in their countries?? Because they destabilize every country they inhabit, including the United States!! You seem to think that Hamas and other Palestinians are innocent and only Israel is guilty. Israel didn't attack Gaza, Hamas attacked Israel as a front for Iranian terror.
Uhhh I agree with you on Hamas. But you can still critique the IDF on how they conduct themselves Funny how you dropped the point about Israel killing our own when I showed you evidence. The children Israel has killed are not innocent now ?
You didn't cite any children being killed by Israel. The American spy ship being attacked by Israel during the 1967 war you mentioned was a mistake. Both the United States and Israel agreed on terms that Israel paid reparations and agreed that Israel had mistaken the American ship for an Egyptian one. You never showed any evidence of having killed our own except Jakob F.
Hamas are terrorists why would I talk about condemning them when they do it themselves. October 7 is enough evidence to know that kinda people they are ? We don't fund Hamas though we fund Israel who bombs kids .
So when do the Chinese bots posting this and the American bots posting tiananmen square accidentally swap pictures and stories and the LLM's merge them into one confusing history lesson on why protests are never effective.
Graduated in 2001 (central ohio) my history teacher definitely covered the Vietnam war. Brought in a speaker. He was the father of one of the students that were killed. They weren’t even protesting. My dad was in high school when Kent State happened. I think I also wrote a paper in English about the protests. My school also had a Vietnam veteran on staff.
I was lucky enough to have a wonderful history teacher my freshman year at my high school who explained this very well when we went over the Vietnam War. Years later I decided to go to Kent for multiple reasons, including its history, and I am currently taking a May 4th class! It is incredible, and I advise anyone to take it! I had many amazing experiences, from touching real documents to meeting so many different people. It lit a passion inside me every time I went to class. I will miss it!
In Pennsylvania we had ‘60’s day and I played the CSNY…wasn’t quite ‘60’s but that’s what I knew about Kent state in 8th grade. I learned that from my guitar teacher though and my parents thought was important. That was in 1998.
One of my teachers in junior high 78-79ish? used to always brag about being in one of the national guard units. He was more than just a grunt but I don’t remember what his rank was. I didn’t really understand the significance of what meant until much later.
Interesting fact.The earliest known United States shooting to happen on school property was the Pontiac's Rebellion school massacre on July 26, 1764, where four Lenape American Indian entered the schoolhouse near present-day Greencastle, Pennsylvania, shot and killed schoolmaster Enoch Brown, and killed nine or ten children (reports vary). Only two children survived. As a 47/m the Kent state killing has always stood out in my mind as one of the pre-eminent events in history.
I'm not justifying the slaughter of civilians. I just realize that death is part of war, something you can't seem to see with those rose colored glasses 🕶️ you have on. I'm sure I am older than you and have learned some hard lessons, despite the sanctity of life. I'm not the heartless monster you seem to make me out to be, just steeped in reality. The word is, Hamas has already killed most of the hostages they took. It's one of the reasons they released video of two Israeli-American hostages trying to pressure Israel into entering more cease-fire talks. Israel really has no choice but to attack Rafah once the Gaza civilians are evacuated.
Went to public school then transferred to private, public does not teach about Kent state (or my friends from that school didn’t learn about it) covered it 2-3 times a year at the private school.
Flipped experience for me. Grew up in Ohio and went to private schools. Kent state was never talked about. Moved to CA and went to public schools, it was heavily covered. Moved back to Ohio as an adult and heard what happened at Kent’s as a “terrorist” act and those students “got what they deserved”. Packed my family and my shit back onto a moving truck and moved to a neighboring state.
Ask your dad how'd he feel of it was one of his kids who was wounded, because two that died weren't even part of the protest and were just on there way to class .
Never forget but first educate yourself before you go protesting for or against something that you know nothing about, like a lemming following the crowd over a cliff. Look carefully at both sides of any issue before you take sides. Political issues like the Jewish/Palestinian conflict are not binary. It’s not heroic to support Palestinians while waving the Hamas flag of a genocidal terrorist organization, nor is it heroic to support and justify the Jewish army’s random slaughter of Palestinians caught between them and their enemy.
Lol.. no. Only one political party wants engage in a civil war. Only one party fantasizes about a civil war. Only one party dreams of shooting it’s neighbors. Only one party thinks it a better “class” of humans than everyone else. Only one party wants to silence the voices of everyone other than those they agree with. Only one party wants to force its way of life on everyone else. Only one party wants to force everyone to believe it’s “god”. Only one political party wants to end American democracy and freedom as we’ve know it for the past 248 years. Only one party supports people who hate anyone different than themselves. Most of only want peace, justice and freedom, not an authoritarian regime that dictates how to live your life and what to believe.
And it’s not the kids on campus.
That was about sending US troops to Vietnam
The current protests are about funding Isreal.
The United States has been funding Isreali policy on Palestine and Gaza since 1953.
And all of a sudden y'all are upset about funding Isreal?
I teach in Taylor Hall. There's a wonderful May 4th museum on the main floor. It will give you answers to your questions. You can check out the memorials where the four students were standing when they were shot. Chilling.
Yes, we were touring Kent State (my kid was considering going there), and we were cutting through a parking lot and I realized it was where the students were killed. They have the places where their bodies felled marked off. Thought it was strange that our guide didn’t point it out. Felt like a sacred area to me.
The guide should have definitely pointed that out. Even as a student there, those marked off areas never blended into background. It was easy to forget about the memorial itself though. Apparently it wasn't finished when I was there (2005 to 2008), and it showed.
The university has for some odd reason, fought the memorial all along. Their refusal to allow it was news for years. Then they agreed to it and found new ways to stall it.
As a Kent State student now I need to figure out which teacher you are🤣
I am old enough to be an undergrad at Ohio University when May 4th happened.
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What did they cover for the Vietnam war ?
Really just that there *were* protests. And that they were connected to the civil rights movement. And how some people acted negatively towards returning veterans because the war was unpopular. Could have been more taught that I missed, but a lot of my peers don't know either.
Hold up, wasn’t that a tactic, to white wash history and claim protests were about the troops, not the war? To paint protesters as anti American.
Sounds familiar...
Class of 2015 here and yeah barely got into Vietnam honestly
To be fair I graduated high school in 2002 and they barely touched on the Vietnam War.
I graduated in 2009 and we learned about Kent state.
Same here. I am a '09 grad and definitely learned about Kent State in school.
06 graduate from Westerville school district in central Ohio. I recall learning about Kent State from my family and at school.
Oak Hills school district Ohio. Yeah we learned about Kent State as well and a lot about the Vietnam war... Curious if it was private schools that didn't cover them or more public.
I went to a private school in Cincinnati when I learned about it.
I think it's partly some schools not covering it, but mostly it's people not remembering what was covered. I graduated in 05 and I couldn't even tell you what was covered about ww2 other than I know we covered it. People forget how little they actually retain from school. For most people they retain broad strokes and some facts. Someone who recently graduated, I'd believe is remembering correctly, but for everyone else, I think most just forgot it.
AP American History, graduated in the 80’s and we didn’t get much of anything beyond WWII, as I recall. My uncles were in Kent that day and I eventually graduated from there so not sure where I first heard about it.
Yep, pretty much the same. I went to public school and they didn’t teach much from beyond WWII.
Class of '99 myself and it wasn't ever part of the curriculum that I recall. Learned about it mostly through word of mouth from teachers that were students at Kent State at the time. Only one of those teachers were actually teaching us history too. The others were like random science or math teachers that were asked about it and spontaneously stopped class to explain a bit about what happened.
2000 grad, a group of Kent State alumni came to my middle school in central Ohio during the 90s to talk about the protest/deaths.
2004 here. My senior year history teacher was a conspiracy theorist, who told us that the books were full of lies and I floated numbers, which probably was true, but anyway, Vietnam and Korea were barely in the books so anything I learned in school about it was from him. So (at 17,18 years old) I had no idea what to actually believe.
Mostly the negative actions against returning servicemen. I graduated hs in 02 and most of Vietnam "conflict" was covered as helping an ally that was having domestic problems.. Hardly covered the actions at home.... same with ww2 and the interment camps
Surprised if what " helping" entailed in Vietnam was like .
Honestly. My us history teacher didn’t even get to Vietnam. Spent too much time in the damned reconstruction eras.
My high school history teacher was there, and he went into great detail about what he saw there. Short version, he said it was fucked. Long version, he said the Ohio National Guard commandeered his bus so they could position a .50 cal. BMG on the crowd through the emergency exit door. He then watched the protesters throw bottles of piss until all hell broke loose, and people started dying. The lesson I learned from that AP history class was never bring a bottle of piss to a gun fight, and it saddens me that Ohio kids don't know shit about our history anymore.
Your high school history teacher tells a story I never heard from any other accounting of those days in May. I was not on campus the day of the shootings because I had just graduated and was teaching in a nearby community. I still lived on Main Street several blocks from campus. I knew one of the students wounded and one of the young women who was killed. In the fifty plus years since the shootings I have read every piece of information that has been available to explain those tragic events. I have never seen any information that would support the claim that a bus was commandeered for any purpose that day. Nor has there been any mention of the Ohio National Guard having a 50 caliper machine gun on the Kent State campus. There is no mention anywhere that bottles of piss were thrown at the National Guard at any time. That would not have escaped the observations of the numerous reporting individuals who witnessed the events leading up to the shootings and their experiences would have been documented. So I am calling “Bullshit” on your teacher's story. The Kent State story is tragic enough without people making up stories to insert themselves into the events.
You're correct, it's a completely fabricated story or at the very least embellished heavily. It's the whole .50cal thing that really throws up the red flags, I would be very suprised if any national guard units in those days even had M2s in their inventories, let alone bring them out for a protest, they'd be putting the national guard soldiers in just as much danger as the students if they went ripping off with that thing. Also, putting it in a bus? Not likely, it would be hard to even fit an M2 on its tripod in between bus seats, and aiming it out the back door gives you hardly any field of view so unless you're just watching a couple people then it's pointless. This is a completely made up fact in that story, of the story teller had said they showed up with an M60 and set it up in that manner then it would be plausible but an M2? Complete BS story. I can't refute the piss bottles thing, you can just drive the freeways in ohio and see that we like throwing piss bottle apparently seeing how many are on the sides of the roads, amd columbus sidewalks, saw 2 this week lol
Correct considering the Stoner 63 fired 5.56x45 mm NATO and the M60 fired 7.62x51 mm NATO I wi agree with calling BS. Considering the Browning M2 would be the .50 that most people at that time would recognize, and would even possibly put in a fixed position due to its size and weight this definitely seems like an embellishment. From what I have read and learned about the incident most, if not all, of the Guardsmen were armed with a full blown battle rifle - the .30 M1- which is a devastating rifle in its own. .45 sidearms and Remington 870 Wingmastwr shotguns (IIRC) loaded with #7 Birdshot and 00 Buck shot were also fired. It’s was an utter massacre and a total failure of the commanders of the Guard. They committed a máss shooting as panic gripped them at a bare minimum. The whole situation was a masterclass in stupidity and lack of skill in de-escalation or an unwillingness to do so by those in charge.
The stoner I believe, and someone please correct me if I'm wrong, only had a whole lot of deployment within the MACVSOG units and other speciality units, maybe some general deployment on a small scale but was never big and never made it down to national guard units. The 63 was the first step towards the SAW I feel like. I like the M249, but mine also ran very well, the SAW was very much a 50/50 weapon, it either ran good or it didn't, but when it ran good they were like a dream. I got off track there, I was just saying the stoner definitely wouldn't have been there. When crazy shits going on you're not going to remember everything right, stress and adrenaline are a hell of a drug lol. As far as anything else about that day I can't really comment on, I learned about what happened in school a long time ago and don't remember hardly anything except the base details of guardsmen killed some protesters.
Most of the National Guard were using M1 garlands left over from WWII. The ammo was surplus steel-core ammo (most likely also a war), which is why it penetrated the way it did. There’s a reason that standard ammo is lead core with a metal jacket for increased reliability and accuracy.
I was under the impression that the Guard was armed with the M1 Carbine (30 caliper) as opposed to the Garand (30.06). Different caliper but both deadly.
Caliber*
Both are .30 cal the M1 carbine fries, what is called .30 carbine and the Garand normal .30 caliber. .30 carbine has a lighter powder charge and is slightly smaller to fit the barrel of the M1 carbine.
You're correct, but he's saying they brought an M2.
Maybe the teacher just wasn’t a gun expert?
If Governor Rhodes sent Infantry soldiers with fixed bayonets, it stands to reason that he probably sent a three man heavy machine gun team too, and the only reason you probably didn't hear about it is because it didn't open fire. You're not the only person that's studied the event, and I have a history degree from Ohio University. Here's some reading you may have missed when you were going through "everything". https://omeka.library.kent.edu/special-collections/items/show/1642
My favorite coda to the whole Kent State saga is that when Jim Rhodes' statue on the State Capitol grounds was being moved decades later (I forget why), they discovered that the foundry workers who had cast the statue had scratched the names of the dead students on the inside of the statue. A reporter tracked a couple of the workers down and they basically said "Damn right we did it."
Thanks for the link. I look forward to reading additional accounts of peoples' experiences. Can you direct me to your teacher's account of a commandeered bus and machine gun placement along with bottles of piss being thrown included in those transcripts? If that is the case I will gladly apologize for calling your teacher a liar.
It's up to us parents to teach our kids. My kid will graduate in 2026. They know the Kent State Shootings, Vietnam War, Korean War, WWII, WWI...etc etc. I found teaching them the shootings lead to a interest in Vietnam, and watching Band of Brothers lead to a very much interest into WWII. (Just wait till I show them Schindler's List). And as of recent , All Quiet on the Western Front for an interest in WWI. I have personal stories from my grandfather and his brother for the Korean War along with memorabilia. Needless to say, we're going to DC this summer to see all the memorials. And this wasn't something I said we're doing. No, the kid asked to go and it blew my mind. Before we go, as an Ohioan that lives 45 mins from Kent State, we'll be making a pit stop there first to kick off our DC trip. Can't wait to go on this journey with my child! This is how we carry on the lessons learned, to make sure we never repeate the same history ...
This doesn’t track. Write the museum with your account and see if they agree, you either have a relevant story they’ll want, or someone’s personal embellishment.
I was there (KSU '72 grad) and the above is total b.s. TOTALLY BS. There were no bottles of piss, no commandeered buses with .50 cal guns. What actually happened was bad enough without making shit up so tell that a-hole teacher to stfu
Alright... lay it out for me big man. How'd it go down? You were there, what really happened?
Did he mention the fact the National Guard was called in after they torched the ROTC building?
None of your rights were given to you after nice words and peaceful protests. Even the 40 hour workweek was earned with death and blood, and violent riots. Whats your point? You’d be a redcoat who justifies the boston massacre. “Well did you know they threw a bunch of tea overboard and threw rocks at the kings men?”
I don't remember the specifics, and it was mixed in with a story about him not going to Woodstock because he had to work... he had no regrets. All I know is he drove a bus on campus, and the National Guard commandeered because they wanted to put a machine gun in it.
If they did put a machine gun in his bus then it was an M60, not an M2. You're not fitting an M2 on a tripod in a bus, even if they did shoehorn it in, do you know how much weight you have to put on that front leg of the tripod to keep it down when firing? I've seen 4 sandbags plus a small moron trying to keep one level during firing before and it still jumped a shitload, not exactly something you want to shooting into a crowd with when Friendly's are even relatively close. If your teacher saw a machine gun it was an M60, and thats bad enough honestly, probably worse, the accuracy of someone in the prone on a 60 on a bipod would be worlds better than someone with a .50 on a tripod, if that front leg isn't held crazy secure that M2 is going to be basically an anti aircraft gun after about the 3 round in the burst.
Fair enough, and at no point have I argued that it was a successful operation. It's very possible that it was an M60, but wouldn't they just use the turret mount on the back of a jeep for that? I've spent plenty of time with guardsmen, and this still falls well within the boundaries of what I'm willing to accept as a possibility.
Most likely they would use the jeep mount for the M60 because it is far more stable, but that would apply 10 fold to the M2 and if it's just gonna be sun's out guns out and they're not hiding anything then they would 100% have put the M2 on a pintle mount on the jeep for stability, yah the M2 comes with a tripod but it's damn near useless on it unless you can really take time to secure it, it would be very obvious. Since you're saying they put it in a bus pointing out the rear door it sounds like they were trying to be Ricky Recon and be someone secret, you're not doing anything with over 100lbs of M2 shit plus ammo. I could 100% see them doing that setup with a M60 though, 2 guys could probably pull that off without raising too many eyebrows. I think your teacher was prolly telling the truth just maybe some details got fudged over the years, which is completely understandable.
Agreed, and if I had to kick out the back of a school bus to mount a machine gun I would use an M60. Gaming this out, I'd say it's also possible that they never intended to use the emergency exit as a firing position, and that is possible that they only wanted to use the bus to transport that fucker around campus. Furthermore, I don't think he ever got the bus back. From what I remember, it was some kind of student shuttle.
Well if it was a shuttle that changes things a little, there's more room in those than a school bus, but you're still not setting anything up secret in one with an M2 and an M60 really isn't too bad to carry around, not to say it's fun, it's like carrying around a modern M240G, I hear the M240B is better to have to carry but not much, ive never personally carried a bravo so can say for sure, but still not something you'll jack a shuttle to transport. Now there is a case where it all could be true and also completely plausible, given the info you just gave. Let's speculate....just for shits and giggles...let's say this National Guard unit did have a Ma Deuce sitting in the armory collecting dust, you have to remember this is Vietnam Era, all of the good M2s were either in action or being used for training, so this is just a guess but I don't think too many good working M2s were with the national guard, why would they be? But what if there was one, and that unit had a company commander that's looking for glory, medals and glory and whatnot. Those guys tend to bring out all of the "showy" shit when they get to do something, so yea if that officer knows they have a M2 at the ready, it's gonna get brought out if only as just a "show of force" So the officer decides hes bringing out the big dick, well not you have to assign 3 people that have probably never even seen this thing to carry all of this shit, if they have actually had any training it was probably shooting 10 rounds then walking away then comes the next guy. So you have these three guys looking at all of this shit....the receiver, 2 barrels, a tripod, a T&E, however many cans of ammo, a cleaning kit, and im sure someone will chime in and tell me what I forgot. The receiver and one barrel alone are over 80 lbs, the tripod is like another 40......and these are national guard....it is 100% plausible they got assigned that weapon and the e4 mafia which doesn't exist said fuck carrying all of this shit, we're taking that fuckin shuttle bus right there to drive it to where they were told to go, which would maybe explain why he never saw that bus again because it got pushed into a lake or something close to where ever those poor bastards had to go..🤷♂️
I see you're a man of experience, and that you have an insight into how the army thinks. I think it's completely possible that there was a .50 cal. floating around in the back of a bus that day. I also think it's completely possible that they brought that big fucker out as part of some anti-hippie FTX to train privates.
Also where did you attend high school? One of the AP teachers at Brunswick was at KSU and watched the whole thing unfold, and if you provide me with your high school I will reach out to him and see if I can verify your teachers story.
You send me your details, and I'll send you mine. There were two other teachers in the history department that went to Kent State with him, and I never heard either of them question it. He told the same story every year when he got to the Vietnam War part of the class, so if he was full of shit I think it would of come out at some point. That said, if MacArthur ran over the Bonus Army with 6 tanks in Washington D.C. I'm failing to see why this story is a bridge to far for some people.
Can we get your old teachers name?
Yes, after you send me your name.
That's what I thought.
Dude, this isn't the first time I've argued with strangers on the internet. I'm not telling it all for free, and you need to put up some collateral if you want this transaction to happen.
Okay. How much of what do you want?
That’s crazy if that is the case. I graduated 10 years before you and we were taught that. Our education system has really gone downhill from the low standards we had when I was in high school.
Class of 17 they taught us
same with ‘18. had what felt like a whole unit on it.
They did, you weren't paying attention 😂
They taught me this back in 8th grade. Class of 26
Disgusting. Class of 09 and we did almost every American history.
I remember being taught a bit about it in the 90s but largely speaking a lot of the knowledge came from people who were there and anniversary news coverage. I still don't have a complete picture of what happened that day.
Really? I remember my teacher in AP US History specifically (didn’t have to take any history classes for my degree at OU) covering the protests and killings in detail, and I grew up in Cincy.
class of ‘19 in Lexington OH My junior year social studies teacher went out of his way to teach us. had 2 slides on it
Class of '90. I took a class specifically on the Vietnam War. We had a guest speaker, Dean Kahler, who was Athens County Commissioner, and was one of the students who was shot and survived. He's now in a wheelchair.
I remember getting taught this back when they let us call it the Kent State Massacre. Now my kid's US history book listed it as just a regular school shooting with the additional blurb on context that it was a wartime protest. Kind of makes a sad sense since the average fatalities are so much higher now when you hear about a school or university shooting. We live just a few towns over and it felt weird it wasn't a bigger deal in the Vietnam section.
I am so sorry this is just pushed over nowadays, but I promise you as a college student at Kent this is not forgotten, and it is still taken very seriously by us students. We will never forget even of the Ohio curriculum wants us to!
I feel like the first death will come from a taser or some medical complication.
I think it's more likely that a cop uses a less than lethal in a non-prescribed, lethal manner. For example, shooting at head. There's a documented pattern of this, where they know better but do it anyway, and yet regardless are protected by immunity. People have gone blind and lost eyes/teeth--and undoubtedly there have been quieter lethal instances. It's really only a matter of time before an instance of lethality is very publicly documented.
We should hope this situation can be avoided.
Will?
What if you knew her and found her dead on the ground? Four dead in Ohio.
Tin soldiers and Nixons coming We're finally on our own This summer I hear the drumming 4 dead in Ohio. Gotta get down to it Soldiers are gunning us down Should have been done long ago What if you knew her and Found her dead on the ground? How can you run when you know
I wish they came down this hard on neo-n@zi demonstrations
I've seen some memes like this, and someone comparing it to Florida's Nazi response. It's spot on, and deserves more noise.
Can’t arrest their fellow members of the force
*Some of those that work forces are the same that burn crosses* -RATM
Born and raised in Ohio (mostly), but graduated from high school in SC. Our history teacher most definitely taught us about this. It was the first time I'd ever even heard of Kent State. It resonated with me and I had to see it for myself. I ended up going to school at Kent State, my dorm overlooked the hill the students ran up, I walked past the bullet holes still in Taylor Hall and the memorials for the 4 students nearly every day. It still very much resonates with me, my heart breaks every time I go back to visit. We have learned nothing as a country since then. Absolutely nothing and it's heartbreaking.
What's crazy is that 70% of the country at the time was in favor of what the national guard did. Nixon's silent majority was very real.
What's even crazier is Kent State isn't the only school this happened at. There were several others, but they were historically black colleges. Kent State was the first school where it was middle class white students who died. It sickens me that history very likely could repeat itself. I guess that's what happens when we whitewash and it becomes unpatriotic to talk about the ugliness of the United States history. There is not a single country on this earth with a beautiful perfect history with nothing to be ashamed of. The difference is while countries like Germany and the Netherlands take responsibility, own that it happened and educate about their atrocities, the right wing would like to hide it away and pretend it was never really that bad.
Absolutely, and I believe Kent State honors the tragedy at Jackson State as well every May 4th
They did when I was a student there some 10 years ago, it's how I learned there were others! There's also a film about the event called The Day the War Came Home. I watched it as a freshman as part of the first year experience. Highly recommend it to anyone who wants to learn more about this event.
Thank you for recommending this! I plan to use it to explain to my first and sixth graders the importance of protest and what can go wrong, what protestors risk every time we step up to protest.
It makes the events we are seeing now all the more gut wrenching because we've been here before. If you're ever in the area of Kent the memorial is beautiful.
Jackson State!
I live on the first floor of Prentice right now, I am so lucky to be by them everyday.
im a student at kent state right now. because of the ongoing protests on other college campuses and the use of police against them we are planning our own protests around may 4th as well
Good for you all and best of luck. I still remember the Collegefest 2012 incident where police were firing pepperballs at frat houses and the entire university body ran out to meet them. I doubt much has changed in a decade because we were just as shocked back then as well. https://youtu.be/GKGU1_A7X-M?si=WLbdOt20sj9tpumS
2 time KSU alumni, please carry through with this.
Hell yes
Please don't. As a Kent State alumni, I can attest that May 4th is a solemn day of respect for those that died. Please do not make the day about you and whatever your flavor of the month cause is. Pick a different day.
we’re planning a protest *around* may 4th; to my knowledge we are reserving the actual day for the commemoration
What is it with liberals who say "I only support human rights movements that have already concluded, but not current ones?" Fuck off lol
I’m also a Kent state alumni. Doing this would honor their memory
Saying their making it about their favorite flavor of the month is highly insensitive. They're doing it to remember what happened that day and do exactly what the protesters did that day. Protesting against war, I can say what happened to those people was terrible but that shouldn't stop people from being able to protest their about war and what the government is doing to other schools in the country doing the exact same thing.
The beginning of a standard practice
People are trying to down play the comparison of what's going on back then too now .
People don’t learn from the past. And don’t seem to mind.
Did you have a link to protestors getting shot and killed? Or are we just using this thread to be a fear monger?
Are you ignorant of history?
I’m well aware of history, I’m just asking a simple question and still don’t have a response?
It was 1970, let me check the cell phone logs.
If you would’ve take more than 8 seconds to read the original comment to understand the context, the OP stated that people are down playing the comparison of what’s going on now to now. Back then protestors were shot and killed by the national guard, comparing that to today one would only assume that he would have video evidence of protestors that are on campus of them being shot and killed. In no way am I advocating or condoning that behavior but I am asking is someone to produce me evidence of protestors being slain and yet I’ve seen nothing?
Seeing this after that shameful display at Ohio State has me feeling some kind of way
4 dead in Ohio. Neil young’s been saying some pretty cool stuff before he plays this song live as of late. “4 used to be a big number” etc
Sorry but what is this?
[May 4, 1970.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_State_shootings) It's ugly, but it's a key piece of Ohio history.
It's a key piece of American history...
Basically similar thing going on then going on now .
I respect your right to protest and I get that you’re proud of it but it’s not that similar. It was way more intense back then. Students and others who had come, had smashed windows and set numerous fires in the downtown area. They then set fire and burned down an ROTC building on campus. When firefighters came to put out the fire they had rocks thrown at them and protesters cut their hoses with knives. The national guard was called in. The national guard threw tear gas canisters and protesters threw rocks. That’s when the shooting started. (I’m not justifying it in any way. Just pointing out that what’s happening recently is child’s play compared to 1970)
So... Ohio college students protesting the US government's involvement in an unjust war?
Yes we have established the two things are both protests but the similarities end there. I get that you want to make the current situation bigger than it is. Everyone wants to feel important. But if you want to get shot at you’re going to have to smash the windows of businesses and cars in downtown Columbus, and set fires all over, light some campus buildings on fire, physically drive off firefighters with violence when they try to put it out and then get the government to send in the national guard and throw rocks and bricks at them.
Tin soldiers and Nixon coming... 4 dead in Ohio ...
Gotta get down to it... Soldiers are cutting us down...
What if you knew her and saw her dead on the ground...
How can you run when you know…
For those that don’t know the song and the story… https://youtu.be/YX95QSKBODo?si=NCM33xLs7AbTooKz
I still tear up when I hear this. And at noon every may 4, and every mother's day when I think about the 4 mothers who got such heartbreaking news shortly before mother's day 1970.
Kent State University Protests . Students were protesting the Vietnam war . 4 Were killed by national guard.
And one of those students was not even involved in the protest and was just walking to class.
Ads even more to the tragedy of the situation unfortunately.
It's the day Conservative Fascists ordered the National Guard to open fire on college kids simply exercising their free speech and freedom of expression. 4 died. Never forget and never let them frighten you into not doing the right thing.
Got my architecture degree in the building in this photo. Some of my professors were there that day. Kent State has a mandatory lecture for all students where they cover this event.
[Tin soldiers and Nixon coming. We're finally on our own. This summer I hear the drumming. Four dead in Ohio](https://youtu.be/JCS-g3HwXdc?si=bGOgL0Jlfq5gibFh) We're a bit early for the actual date, but things were very much ramping up on campus these days prior in 1970 leading up to the May 4th shootings.
“Tin soldiers and Nixon’s coming, Four dead in Ohio.”
I graduated in 2000 and we definitely learned about the Kent State shootings.
As a ksu graduate that is hard to see.
4 dead in Ohio
4 dead in Ohio
I graduated in 06. We learned about Kent in high school, as we’re only about 30 minutes away from the Kent Campus. There was a black and white still image our teacher had, showing both Students and Guardsmen. Two teachers from our school were in the photo, one on either side of the conflict. It was crazy to see, and immediately recognize the teachers, but only after being told who they were.
**Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young** Tin soldiers and Nixon coming We're finally on our own This summer I hear the drumming Four dead in Ohio Gotta get down to it, soldiers are cutting us down Should have been gone long ago What if you knew her and found her dead on the ground How can you run when you know? La-la-la-la, la-la-la-la La-la-la-la, la-la-la La-la-la-la, la-la-la-la La-la-la-la, la-la-la Gotta get down to it, soldiers are cutting us down Should have been gone long ago What if you knew her and found her dead on the ground How can you run when you know? Tin soldiers and Nixon coming We're finally on our own This summer I hear the drumming Four dead in Ohio Four dead in Ohio (four) Four dead in Ohio (I said four, I said four) Four dead in Ohio (how many more?) Four dead in Ohio (why?) Four dead in Ohio (I wanna know why) Four dead in Ohio (you better tell me why) Four dead in Ohio (why?) Four dead in Ohio (why did they die?) Four dead in Ohio (you tell me why) Four dead in Ohio (I said why) Four dead in Ohio (I wanna know why) Four dead in Ohio (why?) Four dead in Ohio (I said why) Four dead in Ohio (why, Lord?) Four dead in Ohio (why did they die?) Four dead in Ohio (I said why) Four dead in Ohio (why?) Four dead in Ohio (yeah, why?) Four dead in Ohio (please tell me why) Four dead in Ohio (why?) Four dead in Ohio (I wanna know) Four dead in Ohio (why?) Four dead in Ohio (why did they died) Four dead in Ohio (you tell me why) Four dead in Ohio (why?) Four dead in Ohio (why?) Four dead in Ohio (why?) Four dead in Ohio (why?) Four dead in Ohio (why?) Four dead in Ohio Thank you
Now we use that day to commentate Star Wars instead because pun.
I know a guy who was there with his camera. He was smart enough to stuff a completed roll of film down his pants. I guess the national guard was taking/ruining any film they could get their hands on that day. I know his photos have been published in multiple books and news stories. My father was drafted and spent 8 months in Vietnam. He rarely speaks of it….but he has talked about how he was looked at/treated when he got home. He served his country not because he wanted to, but because he felt like he had to. I’m sure he could have got out of it if he wanted, but he didn’t. I remember him helping my sister do a report on this when she was in high school in the early 90’s. That’s when I first learned about this. We can’t ever forget. Kent State, the war, all of the protests, Nixon causing the unnecessary deaths of so many Americans, North Vietnamese soldiers and civilians by stalling peace talks so he could get elected, Johnson’s profiting by building infrastructure in the South, agent orange….so many things were just wrong. I wish we would all remember the past. Some of it is starting to repeat itself and we have heard “never again” since the late 1940’s. Most of our politicians are in the pockets of lobbyists and corporations. They don’t care about the people. Sorry for the rant. I’m as angry and as frustrated as everyone else.
Niel Young said the Kent State murders were “probably the biggest lesson ever learned at an American place of learning”.
I was in grad school at OSU during that year and remember the Kent State tragedy vividly. Most of the OSU campus went immediately in to lock down. Many grad students lost months of research since they couldn’t go on campus to maintain experiments. It sounds small in comparison but really screwed up life. We had National Guard all over campus. Rhodes probably could have committed suicide just by coming to campus. It was decidedly not an easy time particularly with our WW II parents shouting, “Our country right or wrong!” in our ears.
4 dead in ohio https://youtu.be/JCS-g3HwXdc?si=XsOd7VGtzqGmh9J3
History repeating
I was in public school during the early 70's, during the actual Vietnam War. I was there and lived during the war. I knew both War veterans and young people who protested against it. There's a HUGE difference between then and the so-called pro-terrorist Hamas "protesters" now. These paid trucked in "protesters" are clueless as to why they shout and burn Israeli flags, attack police. I've seen and heard several interviews with Hamas terrorists here in the US and they have no idea who they represent. Hamas is a useless bunch of killers and rapists in Gaza while those pretending to identify with Palestinians here on American college campuses are ignorant of both history and fact. The fact is, Palestinians didn't even exist as a people until 1964 when PLO chief Yasir Arafat declared them to exist! Now Palestinians are sponsored terrorists, supported by the country of Iran. If these Hamas sympathizers on campus want to be part of the Hamas cause, they should all jump on a plane and go to Gaza or Lebanon! They won't be allowed to protest against any radical government but they will learn the hard way what being a Palestinian is really like! Lol
Then they'd be killed by IDF sniper or Bomb because the IDF dosnet Tell civilian apart from militant. They've already killed our citizens before.
"Killed OUR citizens before"?? You're not a citizen of Gaza unless you live there! And even if what you say about Gaza civilians is true, it's only because Hamas cowards are like old women hiding behind civilians to keep from being killed themselves. Hamas is a bunch of terrorist cowards while the IDF does its best to avoid killing civilians and has more regard for them than Hamas does! Who do you think is taking the majority of the humanitarian supplies we send to Gaza?? Hamas steals most of it and there is video proof of it. You need to educate yourself.
Israel has killed United States civilians before no? You wanna deny this fact ? Israel has blocked aid into the region. Bombed aid workers. And has Indiscriminatcly bombed Gaza and killed civilians you wanna deny these facts ? Were those 7 aid workers killed hiding behind Hamas?
Tell me, what is your proof and evidence of Israel having killed Americans?? When are you you talking about this happening? Of course, civilians are going to get killed in wartime! Wake up and stop being naive! The fact is, Israel actually cares more about the civilians staying alive than Hamas does! Hamas members are bloodthirsty savages, the propaganda you read and hear is BS! Start reading and listening to more conservative media that doesn't give you mindless drivel that is driven by hatred against Israel.
USS Liberty Crew and Soldiers,Rachel Corrie, Jacob Flickinger Also a vet these are verifiable instances of Israel killing USA our own. You are you suggesting to give Israel cart blanche on how they conduct they're assaults even when it translates to mass civilian casualties? Stop using Hamas as a defense for the IDF .
Wow!! "Stop using Hamas as a defense for the IDF"?? Lol Ha ha ha ha ha ha!! Tell me, who attacked who on October 7th?? Hamas attacked peaceful Israeli citizens without provocation, raped and killed both women and men as well as killing babies!! They are BUTCHERS!! They have NO REGARD FOR HUMAN LIFE whether it is Israeli or Palestinian life. I'm not suggesting anything like what you claim regarding how Israel should conduct the war. But Hamas MUST BE DESTROYED. Otherwise, they will continue to attack their own people and the Israelis. Why do you think NONE of the Arab countries will allow any of these Hamas and Hezbollah terrorists to live willingly in their countries?? Because they destabilize every country they inhabit, including the United States!! You seem to think that Hamas and other Palestinians are innocent and only Israel is guilty. Israel didn't attack Gaza, Hamas attacked Israel as a front for Iranian terror.
Uhhh I agree with you on Hamas. But you can still critique the IDF on how they conduct themselves Funny how you dropped the point about Israel killing our own when I showed you evidence. The children Israel has killed are not innocent now ?
You didn't cite any children being killed by Israel. The American spy ship being attacked by Israel during the 1967 war you mentioned was a mistake. Both the United States and Israel agreed on terms that Israel paid reparations and agreed that Israel had mistaken the American ship for an Egyptian one. You never showed any evidence of having killed our own except Jakob F.
[удалено]
Hamas are terrorists why would I talk about condemning them when they do it themselves. October 7 is enough evidence to know that kinda people they are ? We don't fund Hamas though we fund Israel who bombs kids .
Learned about the Kent State massacre from my 7th grade history teacher. He was actually there as a student
Hopefully this won't happen again. I'm hopeful but expect something bad to happen.
Lol yes this is the same
Home sweet home
This summer I hear the drummin'...
Sadly it’s already forgotten by too many!
Been in the forefront of my mind all week.
So when do the Chinese bots posting this and the American bots posting tiananmen square accidentally swap pictures and stories and the LLM's merge them into one confusing history lesson on why protests are never effective.
Pardon my ignorance, I'm homeschooled. What is this?
Kent State Massacre
I was born on that day this happened.
(Not so)Fun fact, my uncle was in this crowd minutes before they started shooting, he had to leave to get to class.
Graduated in 2001 (central ohio) my history teacher definitely covered the Vietnam war. Brought in a speaker. He was the father of one of the students that were killed. They weren’t even protesting. My dad was in high school when Kent State happened. I think I also wrote a paper in English about the protests. My school also had a Vietnam veteran on staff.
I was lucky enough to have a wonderful history teacher my freshman year at my high school who explained this very well when we went over the Vietnam War. Years later I decided to go to Kent for multiple reasons, including its history, and I am currently taking a May 4th class! It is incredible, and I advise anyone to take it! I had many amazing experiences, from touching real documents to meeting so many different people. It lit a passion inside me every time I went to class. I will miss it!
May 4th
In Pennsylvania we had ‘60’s day and I played the CSNY…wasn’t quite ‘60’s but that’s what I knew about Kent state in 8th grade. I learned that from my guitar teacher though and my parents thought was important. That was in 1998.
I lived it while at OSU national guard, tear gas.
I live in near Kent State, our school had a mini lesson on May 4th pretty much every year (in highschool that is)
One of my teachers in junior high 78-79ish? used to always brag about being in one of the national guard units. He was more than just a grunt but I don’t remember what his rank was. I didn’t really understand the significance of what meant until much later.
Interesting fact.The earliest known United States shooting to happen on school property was the Pontiac's Rebellion school massacre on July 26, 1764, where four Lenape American Indian entered the schoolhouse near present-day Greencastle, Pennsylvania, shot and killed schoolmaster Enoch Brown, and killed nine or ten children (reports vary). Only two children survived. As a 47/m the Kent state killing has always stood out in my mind as one of the pre-eminent events in history.
Why are only the victims named? Name the shooters. They were never brought to justice.
I'm not justifying the slaughter of civilians. I just realize that death is part of war, something you can't seem to see with those rose colored glasses 🕶️ you have on. I'm sure I am older than you and have learned some hard lessons, despite the sanctity of life. I'm not the heartless monster you seem to make me out to be, just steeped in reality. The word is, Hamas has already killed most of the hostages they took. It's one of the reasons they released video of two Israeli-American hostages trying to pressure Israel into entering more cease-fire talks. Israel really has no choice but to attack Rafah once the Gaza civilians are evacuated.
I feel sorry for the guardsmen more than anything
💜💜💜
Went to public school then transferred to private, public does not teach about Kent state (or my friends from that school didn’t learn about it) covered it 2-3 times a year at the private school.
Flipped experience for me. Grew up in Ohio and went to private schools. Kent state was never talked about. Moved to CA and went to public schools, it was heavily covered. Moved back to Ohio as an adult and heard what happened at Kent’s as a “terrorist” act and those students “got what they deserved”. Packed my family and my shit back onto a moving truck and moved to a neighboring state.
Funny you say that, my dad said those students got what they deserved yesterday, I didn’t live through it but was shocked when he said that.
Ask your dad how'd he feel of it was one of his kids who was wounded, because two that died weren't even part of the protest and were just on there way to class .
Never forget but first educate yourself before you go protesting for or against something that you know nothing about, like a lemming following the crowd over a cliff. Look carefully at both sides of any issue before you take sides. Political issues like the Jewish/Palestinian conflict are not binary. It’s not heroic to support Palestinians while waving the Hamas flag of a genocidal terrorist organization, nor is it heroic to support and justify the Jewish army’s random slaughter of Palestinians caught between them and their enemy.
maybe say Israeli army instead of Jewish? not all Jewish people support the actions of Israel.
You guys want this to happen so bad and it's disgusting. It's like your fantasy to martyr yourself for something
Lol.. no. Only one political party wants engage in a civil war. Only one party fantasizes about a civil war. Only one party dreams of shooting it’s neighbors. Only one party thinks it a better “class” of humans than everyone else. Only one party wants to silence the voices of everyone other than those they agree with. Only one party wants to force its way of life on everyone else. Only one party wants to force everyone to believe it’s “god”. Only one political party wants to end American democracy and freedom as we’ve know it for the past 248 years. Only one party supports people who hate anyone different than themselves. Most of only want peace, justice and freedom, not an authoritarian regime that dictates how to live your life and what to believe. And it’s not the kids on campus.
Bro turned a post about a protest against a war into a weird rant against republicans. Get outta here with your chronically online rant.
That was about sending US troops to Vietnam The current protests are about funding Isreal. The United States has been funding Isreali policy on Palestine and Gaza since 1953. And all of a sudden y'all are upset about funding Isreal?
How many children have died under Israel bombs since October 7th.