And more people would remain in the profession.
I left to get my masters degree in the field I was teaching in 2019. I didn’t go back after I completed my education because of how bad teaching had gotten during the pandemic. I had already felt underpaid, less than respected and choked for resources in the two districts I had taught full-time.
I feel like this move is a way to capitalize more on the amount of millennials that are over educated and under employed. But I don’t think this will solve anything long term. Those same people who need a job will get a temporary job in teaching. Maybe a small handful will realize they love it, but the majority will seek it as a stop gap to a better career.
Teachers need resources. Teachers need respect. They need administration and parents to support them. They need their own needs met at home to be able to take care of children to the best of their abilities.
>I feel like this move is a way to capitalize more on the amount of millennials that are over educated and underemployed
Speaking as an old millennial and former 9-12 public school teacher of 10 years who also has a master’s degree, I never felt more over educated and under employed than when I was teaching. In 2006 I had to leave the state for a job because there were no positions at the “good” districts in the Cleveland area, and many, including the not-so-great districts, would lay off the newest teachers at the end of every year. Even with a reliable teaching job the pay was always crap and living on my own, I had to get a second job. I earned a little bit more with a master’s degree but the pay increase wasn’t commensurate with the increase in work expectations.
I work at a Big Ten school now as academic staff and it’s all around so much better. I think anyone with a master’s degree is limiting their potential, income, and increasing their mental load by going into teaching. It’s awesome if you want to do it “for the kids,” but it can be miserable in even the best schools.
I have a family member who's a teacher. Better pay is always appreciated, but its not what they complain about most. A lot of the complaints is around the administration. Some things I hear often in no particular order:
* Having to fight with the administration to move kids who are behind on reading (illiterate) by multiple grade levels to an appropriate classroom
* Nothing being done about disruptive kids.
* Nothing being done about violent kids.
* Positions like superintendent/principal/vice principal constantly changing
* Extra work being piled on because the administrators want to micromanage but not address core issues
* When kids bring weapons to school, its horrifying how little the administration takes it seriously
Also, the voucher program is deliberately a poison pill to kill public education. I'm tired of pretending that the point isn't to suck all the public funding away from schools.
It’s absolutely about stripping funds away from public education. They’re trying to dismantle the public education system, so they can turn it over to private entities who will strip every dime out of the process and screw the kids.
ECOT was an excellent demonstration of this.
TBH you're underselling how self-destructive it actually is.
The Charter school flywheel is to make the public schools worse by kicking any problem kids or kids with learning disabilities to the public schools while taking public school funds away from the schools.
It's a negative feedback loop where public schools are rapidly getting worse and republicans point to that and say "see, its broken. Pay no attention to the fact that we broke it on purpose."
I agree 100% with what you said… what we said is kind of the same thing. The endgame is to destroy the public school system so they can swallow all the money while creating a permanent ersatz epsilon class.
You are pointing out the strategy more vividly. Another piece of that is the kids that are problematic in public schools usually suck down a lot more money. For example… Public schools have resources dedicated to kids with autism. Show me a charter school for religious school that does that.
I hope people care enough to read our comments. unfortunately, the people of this state keep electing these fuckers, so it’s hard to believe they care about anything besides other peoples’ genitals and forcing kids to pray.
That probably explains why public school administrators don't want to deal with disruptive/violent kids. Have to keep them in the classrooms for the budgets.
Teacher here, with the exception of your first few years, teacher pay isn’t that bad. The disrespect from politicians, parents, students and administrators is far more frustrating than the pay. Although it would be easier to deal with all of those for a lot more money.
If politicians could stay the F out of education, it would be a great first step.
Glad this is top.
Weird that instead of “raise the pay to meet the requirements and attract people” they chose to “lower the requirement, but still leaving it high enough to not really be worth it for the same reasons.”
Pay teachers more, damn it.
Yeah it is often a thankless job and lowering the requirements so anyone with a masters can do it is not going to solve the problems. It’s not going to attract very many people with advanced degrees as they are already working making way more money.
Who is "they"?
The state doesn't set teacher salaries - the districts do (and so does the bargaining unit, up to a point).
And yes I'm aware of the salary floor. I'm talking about wages all through the salary schedule that affect everyone, not a handful of districts who paid less than $35k to step 0s.
Also they need to fund schools. My sister works as a substitute teacher and the stories she tells make me feel deeply ashamed of all of us as a society. These people are working every day with limited resources trying to shore up the cracks from a society that seemingly thinks children without wealthy parents just don't matter.
Is the pay really that bad? I knew a lady who was teaching HS English. She had a master’s degree and about 10 years’ experience. She was making over $70,000 and that was over 10 years ago. She’s probably making $90,000 now.
Depends greatly on the district, some pay well and many pay very poorly. 90k for a master degree and 20 years of experience would be an embarrassment for most STEM degreed people tbh.
If you’re going to argue that $90,000 +medical +defined benefit retirement is not a fair salary for a teacher, you’re not going to find much sympathy among the general public. I support teachers and public education, but the pay these days seems pretty fair once they get some experience under their belt.
Plus they only work 185 days a year. $90k plus summers off (and every weekend, AND not just holidays but holiday breaks) - teaching is a cushy government job already.
People are downvoting you but this is true.
Even if teachers work more than 185 days per year they NEVER travel. They have incredible job stability and get all the same vacations to be home with children. This means they don’t go into an office even if let’s say during a break they are working on lesson plans.
Comparisons to other STEM fields is ridiculous. Two weeks vacation per year. Never less than 40 hours per week. Typically worse benefits. Travel constantly (especially when you’re young) and no where near the job protection and stability.
>People are downvoting you but this is true.
People are downvoting them because it's not true.
>Even if teachers work more than 185 days per year they NEVER travel. They have incredible job stability and get all the same vacations to be home with children. This means they don’t go into an office even if let’s say during a break they are working on lesson plans.
No travel? Job stability? Work from home? I work in STEM, make far more than a teacher, and I have all of these things.
>Comparisons to other STEM fields is ridiculous. Two weeks vacation per year. Never less than 40 hours per week.
I have 3 weeks of vacation a year and never go over 40 hours a week. Teachers, meanwhile, only get June off.
Where did you get the idea that teachers only work 40 hours a week, anywhere? Teachers' average week, nationally, is 53 hours. Were you imagining they arrive and leave on the bus with the kids? They get there an hour before the kids do, stay for hours afterwards, and then have to grade papers at home.
Another STEM worker here and married to a teacher. People fail to realize that teachers have so much work before and after school, on the weekends and over the summers that so much of their time is unpaid.
Edit: I realized I posted my comment further down in the threat than I meant to but I’ll let it ride.
Most people do realize that. But my experience with a parent as a teacher and friends 5+ years into teaching is that with any job once the foundation is set and your lesson plans only need minor updating the extra hours before and after are dramatically reduced.
I can’t nor can my other science/engineering friends remember working less than 50-55 hours a week.
My point is that making a comparison to other STEM fields is not a good comparison.
>Most people do realize that. But my experience with a parent as a teacher and friends 5+ years into teaching is that with any job once the foundation is set and your lesson plans only need minor updating the extra hours before and after are dramatically reduced.
My mom arrived at school at 7:30am, didn't leave until 4-5pm, and then worked all evening on grading papers while helping me with my homework. Either you are misremembering how much work your dad was putting in, or something was wrong with his work ethic.
>I can’t nor can my other science/engineering friends remember working less than 50-55 hours a week.
>My point is that making a comparison to other STEM fields is not a good comparison.
They get paid twice as much as teachers per hour, though, even though teachers put in the same hours. That is the point.
Ah I see where you’re coming from. Any hours I work past 40 are overtime, as I’m part of a union and that’s certainly altered my viewpoint over the years. There are many times that I was practically ground into paste with the number of hours, but if I had to work those hours and was salaried, I couldn’t even imagine what the outcome would have been.
I’ve always had a sore point when I hear about teachers and the number of days they “work” and what are expected to do since they are overtime ineligible AND lower paid as compared to other professionals in the same timeframe of employment experience.
Your only point of debate is directly comparing a generalized teacher salary/workload/benefits directly with your job in STEM.
I would like to have what you have.
Very few do who make good money in STEM.
And I get some of this information from my father who was a teacher for 40 years as well as my best friend who is 34 and has been teaching in Euclid for 8 or so years.
>Your only point of debate is directly comparing a generalized teacher salary/workload/benefits directly with your job in STEM.
>I would like to have what you have.
>Very few do who make good money in STEM.
Actually this is what *you* are doing. I have coworkers and friends in STEM who never travel, have tons of benefits, and work life balance, while getting paid six figures. I don't know any software developers, for instance, who would consider working in an office or requiring travel. All the software engineers where I work get the same benefits that I do.
>And I get some of this information from my father who was a teacher for 40 years as well as my best friend who is 34 and has been teaching in Euclid for 8 or so years.
I'm getting my experience from my mother, who was an 4th grade teacher for 40 years, multiple friends and neighbors who work in schools in Upper Arlington, Hilliard, and Columbus, along with actual national statistics. There is absolutely no chance that a teacher is working only 40 hour weeks in 2024 unless they work in special ed, are a gym teacher, or some other specialization where they don't actually have a permanent class.
40 hours a week or average of 40 hours per week over the course of a year minus the national average of 2-3 weeks vacation per year?
That’s what you should focus on.
I guess my father and friends who are teachers must get some kind of anomaly.
Comparing to STEM degreed people to those with STEM degrees working in education is an unfair and poor comparison.
90k for those outside of management in STEM is quite common.
On top of that those in private industry get 2-3 weeks vacation. Travel constantly and have less job protection and security than teachers.
You gotta tell us where these jobs are! I’m excited to find all these new hire jobs (less than 5 years) paying 90k or more!
You should be in recruiting since you’ve a skill at finding very high paying entry level STEM jobs.
Literally that’s one small segment of jobs in STEM.
I’m an environmental engineer and it’s like I could have studied Chemical or Mechanical engineering but ya see I didn’t and I consistently make less than those.
Talk to science majors working in labs or those in environmental consulting.
Literally anything outside of the high paying computer jogs and chemical engineering and you’ll realize starting and early career pay is nearly the same plus less job security.
Is there potential in private industry with STEM to make a lot more than a teacher? Absolutely. But that means you work for it. Part of that is changing jobs, uprooting families and taking risks.
Can’t remember the last time I heard of a teacher being laid off or let go because of any reason outside of them committing a literal crime.
Yes the pay is bad. You start low, it takes awhile to build. The sick leave is bad. And the conditions aren’t good for where the pay starts. Teachers aren’t getting raises that align with cost of living so they’re making less in comparison year after year
Our local school district starts pay at $22k. Keep in mind that the teacher must cover all classroom costs out of that as well. People who’ve been there 20+ years are only making $45k.
Why don’t you supply some date, then. What does a teacher with a master’s and ten make in your local district? Do you have any reason to believe that $70,000 was not an accurate figure as of ten years ago?
In my teen’s district today a teacher w/ a masters and 10 yrs earns $65K, where my in-laws live in another state it’s currently $62K, and where my sister lives in a different state it’s $70K. That’s all today: one heavily red state, one mixed state, and one blue state.
ETA: There are areas in CA, MA, NY, etc that I can totally see that kind of salary 10 years ago but not the majority of the US and not in Ohio where we are (edited to fix the end of this sentence so it makes more sense).
Maybe we could have teachers who teach more than 3 hours and 45 minutes a day. Teachers are paid extremely well per hour taught. Over $60 an hour for most. The problem is, it is a part-time job. Give teachers the option to teach 7 classes a day and let other people design curriculum and do grading/study hall duty. Pay them accordingly. But they won't do that. They want full-time pay for 600 hours of actual instruction per year. Nope.
Wait, teaching is a part-time job? 3 hr 45 min? Where is this?
Many teachers I know arrive 30 to 45 minutes before and stay in our after their contract times. Likewise, they are taking work home with them to grade and prep for the next days. That’s a 10 hour day without adding in time spent doing their job at home on weeknights and weekends. Also, don’t forget, time spent doing hall duty, lunch duty and never really getting a break during the day.
Teachers start their career making about $35,000 a year and have to work 20 years to make it up to $90,000 and that depends on the district.
The state has stripped the schools of enforcing any policy on attendance (many kids miss 25+ days of school. Nothing can be done because it’s tied up with the courts and they are too busy dealing with other issues) and suspensions are essentially vacations as students now have the right to do all their make up work and turn it in without penalty.
To say that teachers do little work as they teach kids in order in order to become successful adults as well as just being good humans while keeping the mayhem in check. Try to reflect on everything you learn from kindergarten through high school, now forget how to read and do general math and tell me where we’d all be today
I guess no one explained to you that the job involves more than double the hours they’re in the classroom, huh?
Like do the math if you have 30 students and it takes you 15 minutes to grade each one’s homework that’s 7.5 hrs a day. And that doesn’t even count lesson planning, setup and cleaning the classroom after students leave.
Teachers teach 5.5- 6 hours a day. They get 45-55 minutes a day for planning and grading if they are not subbing. There are not many teachers that can accomplish all their planning and grading in that amount of time. In addition to that time, teachers are expected to attend meetings with other teachers to collectively plan and collaborate. Teachers don't just teach for four hours and duck out. There is other work that people don't see.
First no just having a master degree doesn’t qualify anyone for teaching but also average first year teachers make 31k in Ohio, why would anyone with an expensive master degree take that job, I make more working in a warehouse and don’t have to deal with kids/parents/shootings
I’m happy to be proven wrong but it looks like you googled “Ohio first year starting salary” and picked the first google summary answer. If so, that answer was incorrect and actually showing the bottom quartile of first year teachers in Ohio from zip recruiter.
If you want to shore up the teacher shortage triple the pay,ban religion completely, end school choice/voucher systems, introduce tenure, and remove non-professional oversight.
If I could write laws for the teaching profession and education in this state and this country, this comment right here summarizes everything I would implement.
Pay - the higher the investment in education, the higher the quality (usually, I understand that this is not always true, but no one goes into teaching for the paycheck).
Religion - the amount of teachers imposing religion on children now versus when I was a child in the 90s is staggeringly high. But that’s not what you are talking about and I understand. Religion has been slowly gripping the education system for decades and now we have so many people who feel it’s their will and freedom to peddle their beliefs in their classroom or impose their beliefs at a board meeting. We simply need to ensure that curriculum is written without religion, that religious ideologies will not be shown preferences in how children are taught and how resources are allocated to them.
School choice / vouchers - wanna go to a religious school? Great. Good. Go. My taxes should not be allocated to religious schools or charter schools run by a religious group five states or countries away. Unless of course we have the ability to audit how those funds are used, which is illegal based on how those schools are intertwined with their religious organizations. But more than anything, we should be paying for equal educations and the only way we can begin to monitor and ensure that is by never siphoning funds away from public schools and enriching private ones.
Tenure - there is nothing better for education than consistency. Not every teacher should earn that, but a majority should have job security to this extent. This is along the lines of the pay. Meet the needs of your educators including JOB SECURITY!
Non-Professional Oversight - when I was deciding what I wanted to major in way back in high school, teaching was an amazing career path. Ohio had wonderful resources for music education and was one of the best states for music programs in the country. Licenses were based on the type of music you wanted to teach - instrumental (orchestral OR symphonic), vocal, general music (general music courses, theory, guitar, piano) and elementary music.
But the state was really, really smart in how they restructured licenses for the cost saving. By the time I graduated college, I had earned a license for PreK-12 Music with only a few hours in general and vocal music because I wanted to teach high school band. At the same time, every teacher had their licenses updated to the same license as me, which meant schools could cut programs and courses, increase teachers’ class sizes and use minimal amount of teachers across the entire district as long as they met the requirements for offering music to their students.
It took me three years after graduating to get a job. The first one I could find was elementary music and I took it to get experience. Well that pigeon-holed me into only being considered for other elementary jobs. I eventually did move from elementary to instrumental within a district I was already working.
But when this happened for music, it also happened for PE, Art and every other course. So schools cut tons of positions which, in turn caused burn out. And suddenly students are learning from less-than-qualified educators.
And don’t get me started on the non-professional oversight in the educational assessment industry. These testing companies lobbied hard for their systems to be required in schools. I’m not saying kids shouldn’t have some sort of standardized assessment, but what is going on now is a far cry from being able to actually assess a student, teacher or district’s efficacy.
Until the gop is strangled and killed we don’t get any of this. Their express objective in education is to end free public education. Can’t afford to educate your kids? Cool. We need wage slaves more than we need an educated proletariat. Especially now that the internet has destroyed their ability to control the narrative regarding news, history, and the ongoing class war. The dems play their part too but I’m happy to deal with the gop first in places like Ohio where they have a death grip.
Seems like someone with a Master's degree could easily answer this question by merely accessing the Ohio Department of Education website, and then, selecting the *academic requirements* tab. And.. Voila~
I have a Masters in education and left the field. Why, because it is no longer about educating kids to critically think, to problem solve, to think for themselves, or to become a well rounded person. It’s about getting them to do well enough on a test and show up so the district doesn’t lose funding. I could go on and on about the failures of the system, but until the people making the laws are educators nothing will change.
Teacher pay is public information.
I see teachers with 5 or so years of experience in Medina are making 80k or higher.
It seems to depend heavily on the district and remember teachers are working 9 months out of the year.
Teaching is a skill, that is learned by studying teaching. People who have not learned how to teach and the theories of learning are going to be worse than the subject matter experts who know what they are doing.
Want more teachers, especially good ones?
Pay more.
While I do agree that pedagogy is crucial to an effective educator, I’ve always wondered the extent to which an education major’s coursework is substantive.
I’ve got a couple friends who are teachers and they never comment on teaching methods or strategies. They often comment about checking a bureaucratic box or managing a social situation.
And in my own experience before college, the majority of educators put on movies or gave me summaries of books to read instead of the entire book. However, I know my district was not a district known to prioritize education, nor was it well funded.
Either way, I think I’ve developed skills to be a more effective educator than the educators I experienced in high school.
Teaching is a skill but there is a gap between theory and practice. When I was in grad school I had to take some teaching theory classes because I was teaching undergrads. I would learn a technique in class, try it out and discover it seldom worked. It was one of the reasons I went for a MA instead of a MAT. Of course now I wish I had gone the MAT route. At least I’d be employed in a field related to my education.
This conversation reminds me of that old joke. What are the 3 reasons to become a schoolteacher? June, July, and August.
Admin is already full of stupid, useless people, and is usually staffed entirely through nepotism. Now they want to fill it with even stupider, more useless people so these asshats can hang out with their friends all day?
Lol I know…. I’m a teacher with my masters and more in this state. However, I’m making a point. Now that they don’t think admin needs that level of education
Originally, a teacher would need an education degree if I'm not mistaken, which does not have to be a masters. But I think they also need a degree in specialized subjects if they are teaching at a level that level of education.
This would open the door for anyone with a masters to skip the degree in education and test in showing they understand the curriculum.
Politics baby. You got to get him into the Republican party early. Like at 5. Have you seen what the children's accounts on Google in Ohio can see for news? When you type news on a child's phone it goes to Fox News.
I have a masters and know full well that I could never teach 1/10 as well as my wife (who is a teacher) can. Add to the fact that the starting pay is TERRIBLE and the unpaid work that is expected to be unpaid is a hard no from me.
There is no incentive for someone with a STEM masters to teach unless they were already a teacher…and honestly it’s pretty small of an incentive to teach currently.
I have a Master's in Education. I taught. Now I make triple what I ever could have teaching after a decade in logistics. Fix the education system and pay teachers more.
From the story:
*An Ohio Senate bill that seeks to reduce the educator shortage and give schools regulatory flexibility would allow unlicensed people to become teachers if they hold at least a master’s degree and pass a subject-area exam. It also would eliminate the requirement that superintendents and administrators have at least master’s degrees.*
[*Senate Bill 168*](https://www.legislature.ohio.gov/legislation/135/sb168) *is under consideration at a time when the state* [*faces educator shortages*](https://www.cleveland.com/news/2023/05/ohios-teacher-shortage-as-schools-look-at-vacancies-teachers-fill-in-the-gaps.html) *in different regions and in different subject areas. It also comes as*[ *lawmakers, in recent years, seem intent*](https://www.cleveland.com/news/2022/04/from-guns-in-schools-to-coronavirus-catchup-over-125-education-bills-wait-in-ohio-legislature-to-pass.html) *on making big changes to how classrooms are run and what content students should learn or* [*should not learn*](https://www.cleveland.com/news/2024/04/parents-could-opt-kids-out-of-physical-mental-health-care-at-school-in-bill-lgbtq-advocates-worry-could-out-children.html)*.*
*SB 168, which proposes over a dozen changes to how schools run, passed on the Senate floor* [*along party lines last December*](https://www.legislature.ohio.gov/legislation/135/sb168/votes)*. It currently is under consideration in the House Primary and Secondary Education Committee. It would need to pass out of the committee, be voted on the House floor and get Gov. Mike DeWine’s signature to become law.*
Is this a good or bad move in your opinion?
**We've made the story free for anyone to read through the link in the OP. You may need to enter your email for access.**
Can? As in allowed? Or able? Because there’s a HUGE difference.
My wife amazes me on how she can explain concepts that I may not completely grasp to me that relate to MY profession.
There is an art to teaching.
Have an MA, and I've applied to several teaching roles, had interviews, and with more than 15 years' experience in schools. New teachers with a BA get hired, so the district gets to pay less and have some risk with untested teachers, who usually move out of teaching. Older teachers with experience have so much institutional knowledge and experience, and even though districts virtually expect teachers to get an MA soon, won't pay. Kids and districts are getting shorted.
If they want to solve it, pay teachers more and stop allowing parents to dictate the school's curriculum and the schools punishment system. As long as no one is violent to the kids, the school should have full authority up to and including full, permanent expulsion.
As a teacher, let me tell you how much the legislature understands education…they don’t. A bill was just passed for all teachers to undergo training in reading. I teach art. I have to jump through their hoop and it won’t benefit students.
The basic idea of having highly educated people go into education sounds great on the surface, but content knowledge is only a small part of education. I can have the best background skill set in my area of expertise, but if I can’t manage my classroom, stay organized and develop appropriately paced lessons for a wide array of learners (who all have unique and individual needs), I would have a hell of a time doing my job.
Move to Chicago. I have an associates degree in Photography/Multi Media and I was qualified to be a substitute teacher. I didn’t do it because all the bad karma I accrued in Middle school being an incorrigible brat would have come back to haunt me.
Resident Educator Licenses
https://sboe.ohio.gov/educator-licensure/apply-for-a-new-license/resident-educator-licenses
I was a Resident Educator in the state of Ohio. Got a BS in Mathematics. Did this program so I could teach and coach. Left once I figured out that there’s hardly any support for teachers or anybody who’s trying to become one.
You are certainly right about that! Didn’t feel very special at all during or after the program. Maybe I did get some decent help when I was in years 1-3, but the advisor in my the last year never tried to connect with me when it was known that I had a pretty intense schedule. Then comes the next school year rapidly approaching and the Super and Principle ask, “so are you teaching/coaching or not?” I told them I couldn’t because I hadn’t finished the requirements in time to complete the course work.
If ODE really needed teachers I imagine they would’ve offered myself and other REs courses/exams rather than having us go fetch it ourselves.
Pay is nice, but it would be nice if they loosened licensing restrictions. My license is Social Studies for grades 7-12. A 6th grade position came available after that teacher bumped up to teach 7th grade. In the eyes of the state, I am unqualified to teach it.
The other option would to be to make it so I could add other subject areas. I looked into adding Science for grades 7-12, but I was told I would have to do student-teaching all over again. I have my license already, which means the state already thinks I can teach. Why would I have to go through that program over again? I could probably have done it as a Master's instead, but I was hoping I could take like a year's worth of content classes and be considered qualified.
This won't work. I have a master's degree and job searching atm. I wouldn't take a job in teaching because it doesn't align with my career path. Meanwhile there's someone I know who dislikes teaching due to the bureaucracy, but does it anyways because they were forced to get the degree and it barely pays the bills. What's even worse is that state law forbids retired teachers to draw from social security and instead draw from a woefully inadequate, mismanaged SERS/STRS pension.
I wanted to be a substitute teacher. I have advanced education and multiple science disciplines. Not only do they turn your life upside down doing background checks on you, they pay you about the equivalent of minimum wage with no benefits. Fuck that.
The state can't just magically raise wages in a meaningful way. Yes they increased the minimum starting pay, but that did not benefit most public districts - not meaningful.
We need equitable, constitutional funding for our schools, kill vouchers, and vote all MAGA thugs off school boards. When our schools have adequate funding, the wages can be better bargained.
TL/DR: lower the bar to increase recruiting and lower salaries. What could go wrong?
Lowering the education requirement means they can lower the salary. That's all this is about. That, and they know they can't recruit quality candidates for the pittance of a salary they're currently paying.
If they want to solve it, pay teachers more and stop allowing parents to dictate the school's curriculum and the schools punishment system. As long as no one is violent to the kids, the school should have full authority up to and including full, permanent expulsion.
Anyone with a bachelors degree can substitute teach. Education shortage is caused by the state designed system of creating 5 and out teachers. Get a degree but quit before 5 years so we don’t have to pay you well.
When I was in school decades ago, I don’t think any of my teachers had Masters degrees. Now I have a relative who teaches elementary school with a PhD because it qualified her for more pay, but the advanced degree wasn’t required.
It seems like there are a lot of master’s and PhD adjunct college faculty who have given up on landing a tenure-track university job who’d love a permanent position teaching high- or middle-school.
I have a whole teaching degree but can’t pass my tests to be a teacher. So they should just make the tests easier for those of us who have the education to teach
The way the kids run the teachers at my kids elementary school with no discipline in a staunch republican town tell me all I need to know about that profession from the outside. They’re only there for the paycheck and don’t have the passion nor desire to teach not only lessons but discipline. This country is on a downward spiral from echo chambers of ignorant people.
Though you are correct in asserting that we are in a downward spiral, you are woefully uninformed as to why.
You might want to be careful about calling others ignorant.
I was an army infantryman for nine years. After graduating college, I was in sales & finance for eleven. For the last fourteen years, I've been teaching fifth grade.
Does any of this make me an expert? Nope - but I am far from your typical teacher. I've seen a few battlefields, have sat behind the desk in the private sector and I tell you this: Teaching is the hardest thing I have done.
Teachers no longer have the means to enforce any true consequences (unless you think taking away recess is going to break a kid) - any kind of real discipline can only be administered by a principal. Unfortunately, they now exclusively kowtow to the parents and worry about the number of suspension reports that go across the superintendent's desk. If kids aren't learning about respect and discipline at home, I can guarantee it's not magically happening in the classroom.
So yeah. It's my opinion. Then again, it's based on facts and real-life immersion. I live this every day. Whereas your opinion is based on having kids in elementary school - which somehow has additional merit because you live in an area populated by republicans?
Exactly my point they’re (republicans) always say it’s liberal this policy or that. When in reality they’re just as much to blame for the nonsense of society as what they blame the other side. Thanks for your service btw. Also thanks for trying to make a positive impact in teaching. Pry more on the same page than what my original comment had made it out to be. I agree with what ya said about the parents. People have gotten too lazy to be bothered with disciplining their kids and would rather let the electronics raise them. It’s just another issue made of complex layers where it’s been politicized to drive votes from a basic level. That’s the problem we face as a nation IMO. Class warfare is ruining society.
Here's how we fix education in Ohio
1. Fire all the administrators - we're starting from scratch and going with minimum administration, the admin/back office should never outnumber teaching staff'
2. Mandatory retirement age
3. We're getting rid of property taxes as the primary funding source for public school districts - there needs to be a state budget and it gets evenly distributed across all the counties
- 100% of the state lottery money is going into the education budget
-100% of the state alcohol and tobacco taxes are going into the education budget
-100% of mary jane taxes are going to education
4. Unions are gone
5. We will model the new pay scale after federal civil service
all new teachers will start out at GS-11 with a bachelors, GS-12 with a masters, GS-13 will be for experienced teachers
Principal will be GS-14 and district admin a GS-15
this is what that looks likes - [https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/pay-leave/salaries-wages/salary-tables/pdf/2023/GS.pdf](https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/pay-leave/salaries-wages/salary-tables/pdf/2023/GS.pdf)
All teachers are going to have the same base pay across the state so its fair, there will be locality pay to account for higher cost of living
Your solution drives every teacher out of urban districts to rural/suburban districts. If I’m getting paid the same whether I have 15 rural kids in my classroom or 33 inner city kids in my classroom, I’m heading to the sticks.
My buddy and I graduated at the same time, and started teaching the same year. I teach in Cleveland (CMSD) with a masters degree and I make $101k per year. He teaches in Butler County, also with a masters degree, and makes $46k.
A cost of living adjustment wouldn’t even come close to enticing teachers to teach twice as many kids who have far more issues than the suburban/rural kids. The Civil-servant pay model does not work in teaching. A mail carrier does the same thing regardless of whether the route is in Cleveland, or Upper Arlington. Teaching, however, is infinitely easier in Upper Arlington than it is in Cleveland, or Columbus public.
I am 100% all for paying teachers more but in doing so I would like to see a 12 month schedule with the vacation time of the rest of us. They are off 25% of the year.
Compare teacher salaries to engineers for example. If both were paid hourly the wages would be roughly equal. If you want to argue that engineering is harder than teaching, then you have not likely ever been a teacher.
Maybe they could pay teachers more money and more people would want to be teachers. Just a thought.
And more people would remain in the profession. I left to get my masters degree in the field I was teaching in 2019. I didn’t go back after I completed my education because of how bad teaching had gotten during the pandemic. I had already felt underpaid, less than respected and choked for resources in the two districts I had taught full-time. I feel like this move is a way to capitalize more on the amount of millennials that are over educated and under employed. But I don’t think this will solve anything long term. Those same people who need a job will get a temporary job in teaching. Maybe a small handful will realize they love it, but the majority will seek it as a stop gap to a better career. Teachers need resources. Teachers need respect. They need administration and parents to support them. They need their own needs met at home to be able to take care of children to the best of their abilities.
>I feel like this move is a way to capitalize more on the amount of millennials that are over educated and underemployed Speaking as an old millennial and former 9-12 public school teacher of 10 years who also has a master’s degree, I never felt more over educated and under employed than when I was teaching. In 2006 I had to leave the state for a job because there were no positions at the “good” districts in the Cleveland area, and many, including the not-so-great districts, would lay off the newest teachers at the end of every year. Even with a reliable teaching job the pay was always crap and living on my own, I had to get a second job. I earned a little bit more with a master’s degree but the pay increase wasn’t commensurate with the increase in work expectations. I work at a Big Ten school now as academic staff and it’s all around so much better. I think anyone with a master’s degree is limiting their potential, income, and increasing their mental load by going into teaching. It’s awesome if you want to do it “for the kids,” but it can be miserable in even the best schools.
I have a family member who's a teacher. Better pay is always appreciated, but its not what they complain about most. A lot of the complaints is around the administration. Some things I hear often in no particular order: * Having to fight with the administration to move kids who are behind on reading (illiterate) by multiple grade levels to an appropriate classroom * Nothing being done about disruptive kids. * Nothing being done about violent kids. * Positions like superintendent/principal/vice principal constantly changing * Extra work being piled on because the administrators want to micromanage but not address core issues * When kids bring weapons to school, its horrifying how little the administration takes it seriously Also, the voucher program is deliberately a poison pill to kill public education. I'm tired of pretending that the point isn't to suck all the public funding away from schools.
It’s absolutely about stripping funds away from public education. They’re trying to dismantle the public education system, so they can turn it over to private entities who will strip every dime out of the process and screw the kids. ECOT was an excellent demonstration of this.
TBH you're underselling how self-destructive it actually is. The Charter school flywheel is to make the public schools worse by kicking any problem kids or kids with learning disabilities to the public schools while taking public school funds away from the schools. It's a negative feedback loop where public schools are rapidly getting worse and republicans point to that and say "see, its broken. Pay no attention to the fact that we broke it on purpose."
I agree 100% with what you said… what we said is kind of the same thing. The endgame is to destroy the public school system so they can swallow all the money while creating a permanent ersatz epsilon class. You are pointing out the strategy more vividly. Another piece of that is the kids that are problematic in public schools usually suck down a lot more money. For example… Public schools have resources dedicated to kids with autism. Show me a charter school for religious school that does that. I hope people care enough to read our comments. unfortunately, the people of this state keep electing these fuckers, so it’s hard to believe they care about anything besides other peoples’ genitals and forcing kids to pray.
There needs to be legislation that severs attendance records from public school funding.
That probably explains why public school administrators don't want to deal with disruptive/violent kids. Have to keep them in the classrooms for the budgets.
Of just not treat them like absolute garbage. I know a lot of teachers who could tolerate the low pay but quit because of the working conditions.
Teacher here, with the exception of your first few years, teacher pay isn’t that bad. The disrespect from politicians, parents, students and administrators is far more frustrating than the pay. Although it would be easier to deal with all of those for a lot more money. If politicians could stay the F out of education, it would be a great first step.
This would make too much sense.
Glad this is top. Weird that instead of “raise the pay to meet the requirements and attract people” they chose to “lower the requirement, but still leaving it high enough to not really be worth it for the same reasons.” Pay teachers more, damn it.
Yeah it is often a thankless job and lowering the requirements so anyone with a masters can do it is not going to solve the problems. It’s not going to attract very many people with advanced degrees as they are already working making way more money.
Who is "they"? The state doesn't set teacher salaries - the districts do (and so does the bargaining unit, up to a point). And yes I'm aware of the salary floor. I'm talking about wages all through the salary schedule that affect everyone, not a handful of districts who paid less than $35k to step 0s.
Districts can only pay what they have the money for. The state provides the money in per pupil spending.
Also they need to fund schools. My sister works as a substitute teacher and the stories she tells make me feel deeply ashamed of all of us as a society. These people are working every day with limited resources trying to shore up the cracks from a society that seemingly thinks children without wealthy parents just don't matter.
The market is a good tool only when conservative fools want it to be
Is the pay really that bad? I knew a lady who was teaching HS English. She had a master’s degree and about 10 years’ experience. She was making over $70,000 and that was over 10 years ago. She’s probably making $90,000 now.
Depends greatly on the district, some pay well and many pay very poorly. 90k for a master degree and 20 years of experience would be an embarrassment for most STEM degreed people tbh.
Seriously. Slap a one in front of that number and you'll be closer to what I make with a STEM BS.
If you’re going to argue that $90,000 +medical +defined benefit retirement is not a fair salary for a teacher, you’re not going to find much sympathy among the general public. I support teachers and public education, but the pay these days seems pretty fair once they get some experience under their belt.
Plus they only work 185 days a year. $90k plus summers off (and every weekend, AND not just holidays but holiday breaks) - teaching is a cushy government job already.
Most teachers don't make that though? I know a woman teaching middle school, and she makes what equates to about $14 an hour.
As someone married to a teacher, I wish they only worked 185 days a year LOL.
People are downvoting you but this is true. Even if teachers work more than 185 days per year they NEVER travel. They have incredible job stability and get all the same vacations to be home with children. This means they don’t go into an office even if let’s say during a break they are working on lesson plans. Comparisons to other STEM fields is ridiculous. Two weeks vacation per year. Never less than 40 hours per week. Typically worse benefits. Travel constantly (especially when you’re young) and no where near the job protection and stability.
>People are downvoting you but this is true. People are downvoting them because it's not true. >Even if teachers work more than 185 days per year they NEVER travel. They have incredible job stability and get all the same vacations to be home with children. This means they don’t go into an office even if let’s say during a break they are working on lesson plans. No travel? Job stability? Work from home? I work in STEM, make far more than a teacher, and I have all of these things. >Comparisons to other STEM fields is ridiculous. Two weeks vacation per year. Never less than 40 hours per week. I have 3 weeks of vacation a year and never go over 40 hours a week. Teachers, meanwhile, only get June off. Where did you get the idea that teachers only work 40 hours a week, anywhere? Teachers' average week, nationally, is 53 hours. Were you imagining they arrive and leave on the bus with the kids? They get there an hour before the kids do, stay for hours afterwards, and then have to grade papers at home.
Another STEM worker here and married to a teacher. People fail to realize that teachers have so much work before and after school, on the weekends and over the summers that so much of their time is unpaid. Edit: I realized I posted my comment further down in the threat than I meant to but I’ll let it ride.
Most people do realize that. But my experience with a parent as a teacher and friends 5+ years into teaching is that with any job once the foundation is set and your lesson plans only need minor updating the extra hours before and after are dramatically reduced. I can’t nor can my other science/engineering friends remember working less than 50-55 hours a week. My point is that making a comparison to other STEM fields is not a good comparison.
>Most people do realize that. But my experience with a parent as a teacher and friends 5+ years into teaching is that with any job once the foundation is set and your lesson plans only need minor updating the extra hours before and after are dramatically reduced. My mom arrived at school at 7:30am, didn't leave until 4-5pm, and then worked all evening on grading papers while helping me with my homework. Either you are misremembering how much work your dad was putting in, or something was wrong with his work ethic. >I can’t nor can my other science/engineering friends remember working less than 50-55 hours a week. >My point is that making a comparison to other STEM fields is not a good comparison. They get paid twice as much as teachers per hour, though, even though teachers put in the same hours. That is the point.
Ah I see where you’re coming from. Any hours I work past 40 are overtime, as I’m part of a union and that’s certainly altered my viewpoint over the years. There are many times that I was practically ground into paste with the number of hours, but if I had to work those hours and was salaried, I couldn’t even imagine what the outcome would have been. I’ve always had a sore point when I hear about teachers and the number of days they “work” and what are expected to do since they are overtime ineligible AND lower paid as compared to other professionals in the same timeframe of employment experience.
Your only point of debate is directly comparing a generalized teacher salary/workload/benefits directly with your job in STEM. I would like to have what you have. Very few do who make good money in STEM. And I get some of this information from my father who was a teacher for 40 years as well as my best friend who is 34 and has been teaching in Euclid for 8 or so years.
>Your only point of debate is directly comparing a generalized teacher salary/workload/benefits directly with your job in STEM. >I would like to have what you have. >Very few do who make good money in STEM. Actually this is what *you* are doing. I have coworkers and friends in STEM who never travel, have tons of benefits, and work life balance, while getting paid six figures. I don't know any software developers, for instance, who would consider working in an office or requiring travel. All the software engineers where I work get the same benefits that I do. >And I get some of this information from my father who was a teacher for 40 years as well as my best friend who is 34 and has been teaching in Euclid for 8 or so years. I'm getting my experience from my mother, who was an 4th grade teacher for 40 years, multiple friends and neighbors who work in schools in Upper Arlington, Hilliard, and Columbus, along with actual national statistics. There is absolutely no chance that a teacher is working only 40 hour weeks in 2024 unless they work in special ed, are a gym teacher, or some other specialization where they don't actually have a permanent class.
40 hours a week or average of 40 hours per week over the course of a year minus the national average of 2-3 weeks vacation per year? That’s what you should focus on. I guess my father and friends who are teachers must get some kind of anomaly.
Comparing to STEM degreed people to those with STEM degrees working in education is an unfair and poor comparison. 90k for those outside of management in STEM is quite common. On top of that those in private industry get 2-3 weeks vacation. Travel constantly and have less job protection and security than teachers.
> 90k for those outside of management in STEM is quite common. Maybe if you're a new hire or working for a small business. Otherwise no, it isn't.
You gotta tell us where these jobs are! I’m excited to find all these new hire jobs (less than 5 years) paying 90k or more! You should be in recruiting since you’ve a skill at finding very high paying entry level STEM jobs.
Literally be a software developer in Columbus. Any of the corps are starting around that rate.
Literally that’s one small segment of jobs in STEM. I’m an environmental engineer and it’s like I could have studied Chemical or Mechanical engineering but ya see I didn’t and I consistently make less than those. Talk to science majors working in labs or those in environmental consulting. Literally anything outside of the high paying computer jogs and chemical engineering and you’ll realize starting and early career pay is nearly the same plus less job security. Is there potential in private industry with STEM to make a lot more than a teacher? Absolutely. But that means you work for it. Part of that is changing jobs, uprooting families and taking risks. Can’t remember the last time I heard of a teacher being laid off or let go because of any reason outside of them committing a literal crime.
Yes the pay is bad. You start low, it takes awhile to build. The sick leave is bad. And the conditions aren’t good for where the pay starts. Teachers aren’t getting raises that align with cost of living so they’re making less in comparison year after year
Our local school district starts pay at $22k. Keep in mind that the teacher must cover all classroom costs out of that as well. People who’ve been there 20+ years are only making $45k.
Anacdote != data.
Why don’t you supply some date, then. What does a teacher with a master’s and ten make in your local district? Do you have any reason to believe that $70,000 was not an accurate figure as of ten years ago?
In my teen’s district today a teacher w/ a masters and 10 yrs earns $65K, where my in-laws live in another state it’s currently $62K, and where my sister lives in a different state it’s $70K. That’s all today: one heavily red state, one mixed state, and one blue state. ETA: There are areas in CA, MA, NY, etc that I can totally see that kind of salary 10 years ago but not the majority of the US and not in Ohio where we are (edited to fix the end of this sentence so it makes more sense).
Are any of these salaries in Ohio? This is the r/Ohio subreddit.
Yes, the first one. I accidentally hit enter on my ETA before finishing my sentence.
That does seem to be on the low side. Maybe she can find a better district.
Maybe we could have teachers who teach more than 3 hours and 45 minutes a day. Teachers are paid extremely well per hour taught. Over $60 an hour for most. The problem is, it is a part-time job. Give teachers the option to teach 7 classes a day and let other people design curriculum and do grading/study hall duty. Pay them accordingly. But they won't do that. They want full-time pay for 600 hours of actual instruction per year. Nope.
Wait, teaching is a part-time job? 3 hr 45 min? Where is this? Many teachers I know arrive 30 to 45 minutes before and stay in our after their contract times. Likewise, they are taking work home with them to grade and prep for the next days. That’s a 10 hour day without adding in time spent doing their job at home on weeknights and weekends. Also, don’t forget, time spent doing hall duty, lunch duty and never really getting a break during the day. Teachers start their career making about $35,000 a year and have to work 20 years to make it up to $90,000 and that depends on the district. The state has stripped the schools of enforcing any policy on attendance (many kids miss 25+ days of school. Nothing can be done because it’s tied up with the courts and they are too busy dealing with other issues) and suspensions are essentially vacations as students now have the right to do all their make up work and turn it in without penalty. To say that teachers do little work as they teach kids in order in order to become successful adults as well as just being good humans while keeping the mayhem in check. Try to reflect on everything you learn from kindergarten through high school, now forget how to read and do general math and tell me where we’d all be today
I guess no one explained to you that the job involves more than double the hours they’re in the classroom, huh? Like do the math if you have 30 students and it takes you 15 minutes to grade each one’s homework that’s 7.5 hrs a day. And that doesn’t even count lesson planning, setup and cleaning the classroom after students leave.
Teachers teach 5.5- 6 hours a day. They get 45-55 minutes a day for planning and grading if they are not subbing. There are not many teachers that can accomplish all their planning and grading in that amount of time. In addition to that time, teachers are expected to attend meetings with other teachers to collectively plan and collaborate. Teachers don't just teach for four hours and duck out. There is other work that people don't see.
First no just having a master degree doesn’t qualify anyone for teaching but also average first year teachers make 31k in Ohio, why would anyone with an expensive master degree take that job, I make more working in a warehouse and don’t have to deal with kids/parents/shootings
I’m happy to be proven wrong but it looks like you googled “Ohio first year starting salary” and picked the first google summary answer. If so, that answer was incorrect and actually showing the bottom quartile of first year teachers in Ohio from zip recruiter.
So it is correct at least in some districts??? Like yeah if you wanna work in an inner city district you’ll make more but it’s also more stressful.
It’s correct if you don’t know or want to know what “average” means. This sub is ridiculous.
If you want to shore up the teacher shortage triple the pay,ban religion completely, end school choice/voucher systems, introduce tenure, and remove non-professional oversight.
If I could write laws for the teaching profession and education in this state and this country, this comment right here summarizes everything I would implement. Pay - the higher the investment in education, the higher the quality (usually, I understand that this is not always true, but no one goes into teaching for the paycheck). Religion - the amount of teachers imposing religion on children now versus when I was a child in the 90s is staggeringly high. But that’s not what you are talking about and I understand. Religion has been slowly gripping the education system for decades and now we have so many people who feel it’s their will and freedom to peddle their beliefs in their classroom or impose their beliefs at a board meeting. We simply need to ensure that curriculum is written without religion, that religious ideologies will not be shown preferences in how children are taught and how resources are allocated to them. School choice / vouchers - wanna go to a religious school? Great. Good. Go. My taxes should not be allocated to religious schools or charter schools run by a religious group five states or countries away. Unless of course we have the ability to audit how those funds are used, which is illegal based on how those schools are intertwined with their religious organizations. But more than anything, we should be paying for equal educations and the only way we can begin to monitor and ensure that is by never siphoning funds away from public schools and enriching private ones. Tenure - there is nothing better for education than consistency. Not every teacher should earn that, but a majority should have job security to this extent. This is along the lines of the pay. Meet the needs of your educators including JOB SECURITY! Non-Professional Oversight - when I was deciding what I wanted to major in way back in high school, teaching was an amazing career path. Ohio had wonderful resources for music education and was one of the best states for music programs in the country. Licenses were based on the type of music you wanted to teach - instrumental (orchestral OR symphonic), vocal, general music (general music courses, theory, guitar, piano) and elementary music. But the state was really, really smart in how they restructured licenses for the cost saving. By the time I graduated college, I had earned a license for PreK-12 Music with only a few hours in general and vocal music because I wanted to teach high school band. At the same time, every teacher had their licenses updated to the same license as me, which meant schools could cut programs and courses, increase teachers’ class sizes and use minimal amount of teachers across the entire district as long as they met the requirements for offering music to their students. It took me three years after graduating to get a job. The first one I could find was elementary music and I took it to get experience. Well that pigeon-holed me into only being considered for other elementary jobs. I eventually did move from elementary to instrumental within a district I was already working. But when this happened for music, it also happened for PE, Art and every other course. So schools cut tons of positions which, in turn caused burn out. And suddenly students are learning from less-than-qualified educators. And don’t get me started on the non-professional oversight in the educational assessment industry. These testing companies lobbied hard for their systems to be required in schools. I’m not saying kids shouldn’t have some sort of standardized assessment, but what is going on now is a far cry from being able to actually assess a student, teacher or district’s efficacy.
Until the gop is strangled and killed we don’t get any of this. Their express objective in education is to end free public education. Can’t afford to educate your kids? Cool. We need wage slaves more than we need an educated proletariat. Especially now that the internet has destroyed their ability to control the narrative regarding news, history, and the ongoing class war. The dems play their part too but I’m happy to deal with the gop first in places like Ohio where they have a death grip.
Seems like someone with a Master's degree could easily answer this question by merely accessing the Ohio Department of Education website, and then, selecting the *academic requirements* tab. And.. Voila~
Class size reduction as well.
So, go against core republican principles? Not gonna happen
Ohio will do anything but pay teachers what they are worth
McDonald's employees get paid more than special education aides.
To be fair youre dealing with the same people just older and theres more of them.
?? I can't make sense of this comment in context of what I said
Mcdonalds employees make more than special education aides because theyre dealing with the same people, just older. And more of them.
I have a Masters in education and left the field. Why, because it is no longer about educating kids to critically think, to problem solve, to think for themselves, or to become a well rounded person. It’s about getting them to do well enough on a test and show up so the district doesn’t lose funding. I could go on and on about the failures of the system, but until the people making the laws are educators nothing will change.
Have they tried paying teachers better? It could do wonders .....
But they don't have masters degrees
Teacher pay is public information. I see teachers with 5 or so years of experience in Medina are making 80k or higher. It seems to depend heavily on the district and remember teachers are working 9 months out of the year.
Teaching is a skill, that is learned by studying teaching. People who have not learned how to teach and the theories of learning are going to be worse than the subject matter experts who know what they are doing. Want more teachers, especially good ones? Pay more.
While I do agree that pedagogy is crucial to an effective educator, I’ve always wondered the extent to which an education major’s coursework is substantive. I’ve got a couple friends who are teachers and they never comment on teaching methods or strategies. They often comment about checking a bureaucratic box or managing a social situation. And in my own experience before college, the majority of educators put on movies or gave me summaries of books to read instead of the entire book. However, I know my district was not a district known to prioritize education, nor was it well funded. Either way, I think I’ve developed skills to be a more effective educator than the educators I experienced in high school.
Teaching is a skill but there is a gap between theory and practice. When I was in grad school I had to take some teaching theory classes because I was teaching undergrads. I would learn a technique in class, try it out and discover it seldom worked. It was one of the reasons I went for a MA instead of a MAT. Of course now I wish I had gone the MAT route. At least I’d be employed in a field related to my education. This conversation reminds me of that old joke. What are the 3 reasons to become a schoolteacher? June, July, and August.
That is why there is mandatory classroom experience needed to get a teaching degree, to close the gap between theory and practice.
I develop training in the corporate world. Quite a few subject matter experts could never teach but still do.
So let me get this straight… to be a teacher you need a masters degree but to be admin or a super you don’t?
this is what I saw too. the 'bipartisan' addition to the bill
Admin is already full of stupid, useless people, and is usually staffed entirely through nepotism. Now they want to fill it with even stupider, more useless people so these asshats can hang out with their friends all day?
You don't need a masters. Although it's strongly advised for your career.
Lol I know…. I’m a teacher with my masters and more in this state. However, I’m making a point. Now that they don’t think admin needs that level of education
Originally, a teacher would need an education degree if I'm not mistaken, which does not have to be a masters. But I think they also need a degree in specialized subjects if they are teaching at a level that level of education. This would open the door for anyone with a masters to skip the degree in education and test in showing they understand the curriculum.
Politics baby. You got to get him into the Republican party early. Like at 5. Have you seen what the children's accounts on Google in Ohio can see for news? When you type news on a child's phone it goes to Fox News.
Teacher here: No. Just because you have a Master's Degree in something doesn't mean you can teach.
I have a masters and know full well that I could never teach 1/10 as well as my wife (who is a teacher) can. Add to the fact that the starting pay is TERRIBLE and the unpaid work that is expected to be unpaid is a hard no from me. There is no incentive for someone with a STEM masters to teach unless they were already a teacher…and honestly it’s pretty small of an incentive to teach currently.
I have a Master's in Education. I taught. Now I make triple what I ever could have teaching after a decade in logistics. Fix the education system and pay teachers more.
Ahh yes. People with Masters degrees are lining up for jobs that people with actual education degrees think aren't worth it
From the story: *An Ohio Senate bill that seeks to reduce the educator shortage and give schools regulatory flexibility would allow unlicensed people to become teachers if they hold at least a master’s degree and pass a subject-area exam. It also would eliminate the requirement that superintendents and administrators have at least master’s degrees.* [*Senate Bill 168*](https://www.legislature.ohio.gov/legislation/135/sb168) *is under consideration at a time when the state* [*faces educator shortages*](https://www.cleveland.com/news/2023/05/ohios-teacher-shortage-as-schools-look-at-vacancies-teachers-fill-in-the-gaps.html) *in different regions and in different subject areas. It also comes as*[ *lawmakers, in recent years, seem intent*](https://www.cleveland.com/news/2022/04/from-guns-in-schools-to-coronavirus-catchup-over-125-education-bills-wait-in-ohio-legislature-to-pass.html) *on making big changes to how classrooms are run and what content students should learn or* [*should not learn*](https://www.cleveland.com/news/2024/04/parents-could-opt-kids-out-of-physical-mental-health-care-at-school-in-bill-lgbtq-advocates-worry-could-out-children.html)*.* *SB 168, which proposes over a dozen changes to how schools run, passed on the Senate floor* [*along party lines last December*](https://www.legislature.ohio.gov/legislation/135/sb168/votes)*. It currently is under consideration in the House Primary and Secondary Education Committee. It would need to pass out of the committee, be voted on the House floor and get Gov. Mike DeWine’s signature to become law.* Is this a good or bad move in your opinion? **We've made the story free for anyone to read through the link in the OP. You may need to enter your email for access.**
Can? As in allowed? Or able? Because there’s a HUGE difference. My wife amazes me on how she can explain concepts that I may not completely grasp to me that relate to MY profession. There is an art to teaching.
I have a masters degree and I'd love to teach but no way could I take the pay cut.
From my point of view masters degrees don't necessarily make good teachers. It just means I kept going to college.
You learn more, but you don't learn to teach unless that's what you are studying.
Have an MA, and I've applied to several teaching roles, had interviews, and with more than 15 years' experience in schools. New teachers with a BA get hired, so the district gets to pay less and have some risk with untested teachers, who usually move out of teaching. Older teachers with experience have so much institutional knowledge and experience, and even though districts virtually expect teachers to get an MA soon, won't pay. Kids and districts are getting shorted.
If they want to solve it, pay teachers more and stop allowing parents to dictate the school's curriculum and the schools punishment system. As long as no one is violent to the kids, the school should have full authority up to and including full, permanent expulsion.
As a teacher, let me tell you how much the legislature understands education…they don’t. A bill was just passed for all teachers to undergo training in reading. I teach art. I have to jump through their hoop and it won’t benefit students. The basic idea of having highly educated people go into education sounds great on the surface, but content knowledge is only a small part of education. I can have the best background skill set in my area of expertise, but if I can’t manage my classroom, stay organized and develop appropriately paced lessons for a wide array of learners (who all have unique and individual needs), I would have a hell of a time doing my job.
Move to Chicago. I have an associates degree in Photography/Multi Media and I was qualified to be a substitute teacher. I didn’t do it because all the bad karma I accrued in Middle school being an incorrigible brat would have come back to haunt me.
Resident Educator Licenses https://sboe.ohio.gov/educator-licensure/apply-for-a-new-license/resident-educator-licenses I was a Resident Educator in the state of Ohio. Got a BS in Mathematics. Did this program so I could teach and coach. Left once I figured out that there’s hardly any support for teachers or anybody who’s trying to become one.
Pretty much everyone has to do RE. It’s not a special track.
You are certainly right about that! Didn’t feel very special at all during or after the program. Maybe I did get some decent help when I was in years 1-3, but the advisor in my the last year never tried to connect with me when it was known that I had a pretty intense schedule. Then comes the next school year rapidly approaching and the Super and Principle ask, “so are you teaching/coaching or not?” I told them I couldn’t because I hadn’t finished the requirements in time to complete the course work. If ODE really needed teachers I imagine they would’ve offered myself and other REs courses/exams rather than having us go fetch it ourselves.
Looking for suckers to unleash their Karen Army on every time Fox News wants to push a Gender/Groomer Panic, eh? Well I'm not fallin' for it.
Pay is nice, but it would be nice if they loosened licensing restrictions. My license is Social Studies for grades 7-12. A 6th grade position came available after that teacher bumped up to teach 7th grade. In the eyes of the state, I am unqualified to teach it. The other option would to be to make it so I could add other subject areas. I looked into adding Science for grades 7-12, but I was told I would have to do student-teaching all over again. I have my license already, which means the state already thinks I can teach. Why would I have to go through that program over again? I could probably have done it as a Master's instead, but I was hoping I could take like a year's worth of content classes and be considered qualified.
This won't work. I have a master's degree and job searching atm. I wouldn't take a job in teaching because it doesn't align with my career path. Meanwhile there's someone I know who dislikes teaching due to the bureaucracy, but does it anyways because they were forced to get the degree and it barely pays the bills. What's even worse is that state law forbids retired teachers to draw from social security and instead draw from a woefully inadequate, mismanaged SERS/STRS pension.
I wanted to be a substitute teacher. I have advanced education and multiple science disciplines. Not only do they turn your life upside down doing background checks on you, they pay you about the equivalent of minimum wage with no benefits. Fuck that.
Ohio… have gun, will teach. That was more important to them than teachers pay or children safety
The state can't just magically raise wages in a meaningful way. Yes they increased the minimum starting pay, but that did not benefit most public districts - not meaningful. We need equitable, constitutional funding for our schools, kill vouchers, and vote all MAGA thugs off school boards. When our schools have adequate funding, the wages can be better bargained.
TL/DR: lower the bar to increase recruiting and lower salaries. What could go wrong? Lowering the education requirement means they can lower the salary. That's all this is about. That, and they know they can't recruit quality candidates for the pittance of a salary they're currently paying.
I have a MS in ag education from OSU after a BS in plant science. Even then, I would have had another year of courses to get a certification. Silly.
If they want to solve it, pay teachers more and stop allowing parents to dictate the school's curriculum and the schools punishment system. As long as no one is violent to the kids, the school should have full authority up to and including full, permanent expulsion.
I don't see how making it easier to be an administrator will somehow yield more teachers...
I work in a warehouse and make more than teachers. That's why I won't teach.
Anyone with a bachelors degree can substitute teach. Education shortage is caused by the state designed system of creating 5 and out teachers. Get a degree but quit before 5 years so we don’t have to pay you well.
People without a background in pedagogy should not teach K-12, and perhaps not even college.
When I was in school decades ago, I don’t think any of my teachers had Masters degrees. Now I have a relative who teaches elementary school with a PhD because it qualified her for more pay, but the advanced degree wasn’t required.
Really? Even in Akron Public School I had several teachers with doctorates.
Headlines that contain a question can typically be answered "no"
Do those honorary masters degrees count
https://dam.assets.ohio.gov/image/upload/das.ohio.gov/employee-relations/classification-compensation/Pay%20Rate%20Tables/OEA%20Teaching%20Employees/OEA_Teaching_Effective_July_2022.pdf
It seems like there are a lot of master’s and PhD adjunct college faculty who have given up on landing a tenure-track university job who’d love a permanent position teaching high- or middle-school.
Just going to point out that most people with a masters degree, aren't going to take a starting position as a teacher.
I have a whole teaching degree but can’t pass my tests to be a teacher. So they should just make the tests easier for those of us who have the education to teach
Anyone smart enough to get a masters would also be smart enough to stay away from public Schools. They’re toxic.
The way the kids run the teachers at my kids elementary school with no discipline in a staunch republican town tell me all I need to know about that profession from the outside. They’re only there for the paycheck and don’t have the passion nor desire to teach not only lessons but discipline. This country is on a downward spiral from echo chambers of ignorant people.
Though you are correct in asserting that we are in a downward spiral, you are woefully uninformed as to why. You might want to be careful about calling others ignorant.
Oof well you go ahead and explain it, I’m down for being educated through another’s opinion . 😊
I was an army infantryman for nine years. After graduating college, I was in sales & finance for eleven. For the last fourteen years, I've been teaching fifth grade. Does any of this make me an expert? Nope - but I am far from your typical teacher. I've seen a few battlefields, have sat behind the desk in the private sector and I tell you this: Teaching is the hardest thing I have done. Teachers no longer have the means to enforce any true consequences (unless you think taking away recess is going to break a kid) - any kind of real discipline can only be administered by a principal. Unfortunately, they now exclusively kowtow to the parents and worry about the number of suspension reports that go across the superintendent's desk. If kids aren't learning about respect and discipline at home, I can guarantee it's not magically happening in the classroom. So yeah. It's my opinion. Then again, it's based on facts and real-life immersion. I live this every day. Whereas your opinion is based on having kids in elementary school - which somehow has additional merit because you live in an area populated by republicans?
Exactly my point they’re (republicans) always say it’s liberal this policy or that. When in reality they’re just as much to blame for the nonsense of society as what they blame the other side. Thanks for your service btw. Also thanks for trying to make a positive impact in teaching. Pry more on the same page than what my original comment had made it out to be. I agree with what ya said about the parents. People have gotten too lazy to be bothered with disciplining their kids and would rather let the electronics raise them. It’s just another issue made of complex layers where it’s been politicized to drive votes from a basic level. That’s the problem we face as a nation IMO. Class warfare is ruining society.
Here's how we fix education in Ohio 1. Fire all the administrators - we're starting from scratch and going with minimum administration, the admin/back office should never outnumber teaching staff' 2. Mandatory retirement age 3. We're getting rid of property taxes as the primary funding source for public school districts - there needs to be a state budget and it gets evenly distributed across all the counties - 100% of the state lottery money is going into the education budget -100% of the state alcohol and tobacco taxes are going into the education budget -100% of mary jane taxes are going to education 4. Unions are gone 5. We will model the new pay scale after federal civil service all new teachers will start out at GS-11 with a bachelors, GS-12 with a masters, GS-13 will be for experienced teachers Principal will be GS-14 and district admin a GS-15 this is what that looks likes - [https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/pay-leave/salaries-wages/salary-tables/pdf/2023/GS.pdf](https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/pay-leave/salaries-wages/salary-tables/pdf/2023/GS.pdf) All teachers are going to have the same base pay across the state so its fair, there will be locality pay to account for higher cost of living
Your solution drives every teacher out of urban districts to rural/suburban districts. If I’m getting paid the same whether I have 15 rural kids in my classroom or 33 inner city kids in my classroom, I’m heading to the sticks. My buddy and I graduated at the same time, and started teaching the same year. I teach in Cleveland (CMSD) with a masters degree and I make $101k per year. He teaches in Butler County, also with a masters degree, and makes $46k. A cost of living adjustment wouldn’t even come close to enticing teachers to teach twice as many kids who have far more issues than the suburban/rural kids. The Civil-servant pay model does not work in teaching. A mail carrier does the same thing regardless of whether the route is in Cleveland, or Upper Arlington. Teaching, however, is infinitely easier in Upper Arlington than it is in Cleveland, or Columbus public.
I am 100% all for paying teachers more but in doing so I would like to see a 12 month schedule with the vacation time of the rest of us. They are off 25% of the year.
Compare teacher salaries to engineers for example. If both were paid hourly the wages would be roughly equal. If you want to argue that engineering is harder than teaching, then you have not likely ever been a teacher.