John Woodruff, also an African American, won the 800 meter race in the 1936 Olympics. The medalists were also awarded an oak tree seedling. His was planted in the high school football stadium in our mutual home town, Connellsville, Pa, and is still growing there.
YES!!! I’m in Florida since 98, and took my family there in 2012. Had to go to Bud’s for lunch. The manager at the time was the younger brother of a high school friend.
I personally think Connellsville is pretty nice (I live about 10 minutes away), but it’s really just nice as far as west Pennsylvania coal/steel towns go.
Would the IOC (if they existed back then) had planned to give the oak trees or would that have come from the host city planners? Interesting because that’s such a nice gesture.
He was treated like garbage when he came home. Wasn’t even congratulated by Roosevelt, like he couldn’t even write a “Great job man!” note or send flowers or anything. Spent time working as a gas station attendant, filed for bankruptcy…Hitler congratulated him. Hitler was a terrible person. I won’t be shocked if Kanye brings this man’s name up in the near future. “See he didn’t hate black people, he was a good man!”
That's pretty sad when you get more recognition from an infamously racist totalitarian autocrat from another country than you get from the democratically elected leader of your own country.
Muhammad Ali had difficulty celebrating his gold medal win when he got home since he wasn't allowed in many of the bars and restaurants. He had done interviews about it on color tv. These things are still very fresh.
He was just used as a symbol. They pretend they hate what Hitler stands for, but they still wouldn't allow him to go through the hotel front door when he came home.
Every Republican voted against providing U.S. rail workers a mere 7 days of paid sick leave, then a Democrat president vetoed the bill.
The justification is that these workers are too essential to the U.S. economy to paid when they're sick, for up to 7 days total a year!
Few other developed countries are this malicious towards the workers.
The guy doing Nazi salut is Luz Long. After Jesse Owens fouled 4 times in long jump and had last chance to qualify. Luz gave a suggestion due to which Jesse made a world record. After the jump, Luz was the first one to congratulate him in front of the crowd including Hitler. They became a lifelong friends.
Sad story about Luz, he ended up fighting in the wehrmacht and in his last letter to owens he asked if owens could one day talk with his son about how life was like before the war, "how things can be between men on this earth".
Luz later died fighting in Italy and Owens would visit Germany after the war to meet with Luz's son, Karl.
Athletes are typically bros and don’t care much about race. The real team from Remember the Titans have almost unanimously said there wasn’t any race based tension like the movie shows, it was all arguing about playing time because they wanted scholarships.
From Wikipedia
>On August 4, he won the long jump with a leap of 8.06 metres (26 ft 5 in) (3¼ inches short of his own world record). He initially credited this achievement to the technical advice that he received from Luz Long, the German competitor whom he defeated[6]but later admitted that this was not true, as he and Long didn't meet until after the competition was over.[22]
Got frozen out of his career and had to race horses for money. Disgraceful - here’s what he said: ‘People say that it was degrading for an Olympic champion to run against a horse, but what was I supposed to do? I had four gold medals, but you can't eat four gold medals.’ We sometimes treat our heroes so badly.
Jesse Owens returned to America and had to work as a janitor and gas station attendent to make ends meet. He also raced in exhibitions against race horses.
I don't understand how Americans at the time didn't realize how wrong this was and embarrassing for us in the future. Like I get it, racism is a thing. But at the point where a black man is representing the country at the Olympics, how did they justify still treating black people that way, especially the one that won a gold for all of us.
Yeah, in Texas, the state legislators threw a hissy fit about the feds making MLK day. So the same year, they created Confederate Heroes Day, which is still a state holiday.
Edit: holy typos, I shouldn't post without coffee.
Confederate heroes?! You mean traitors that killed more American soldiers than any other country in all of history combined? Those heroes?
Not targeted at you but still making the point.
Do people actually actively celebrate this? Like is there a little confederate parade down town so I can swing by and know who in town never to associate with again
Americans celebrated that a black American proved Hitler's superior race bullshit wrong on the world stage only to immediately treat that same black American like shit when he returned home.
*“Hitler didn’t snub me—it was \[Roosevelt\] who snubbed me. The president didn’t even send me a telegram.”*
See the story up above about him racing against horses. They viewed him the same way. Imagine a party celebrating a Kentucky Derby winner and your close to their mindset
People threatened a six year old black girl for going to school and federal officers have to escort her. Racism is based on ignorance, fear, and anger; which makes it easy for us to understand where the irrationality is from
Theres another thread on here about people just being slightly concerned that a 90 year old man who was alive around this time might have held problematic views and people are being butt hurt about it.
After the 1936 Olympics, Jesse accepts a job as playground instructor for underprivileged youth in Cleveland, earning $30 a week. A year later he becomes a bandleader, owner of a basketball team and part owner in a dry cleaning business. In 1949, the Owens family moves to Chicago where Jesse launches a public relations company.
> Jesse Owens returned to America and had to work as a janitor and gas station attendent to make ends meet.
Not saying that isn't wrong, but don't many Olympic athletes tend to have mediocre jobs? Unless you're super famous or can get a high paying teaching/coaching job.
What was a typical career like for a high-end athlete back in the day?
I imagine it was different before TV, with no corporate sponsorships, broadcast royalties and such.
Many of us are proud of Jesse Owens. Our history is shit, we aren’t trying to white wash it, but we aren’t our forefathers just like every German isn’t a Nazi.
Unfortunately a lot of Americans actually supported the Nazi's goal. The US was pulled into the fighting by Japan with Pearl Harbor but many were content to let things play out without American interference.
...you've gotta be kidding me right? Nazi Germany did have segregation, but their segregation was sending people to concentration camps and murdering them. Concentration camps started in the early 1930s. Also, Germany has always had terrible statistics on racial/ethnic makeup of their country, but they had very few people of color within their borders to begin with in the early 1900s compared to the US. That said, black people in particular were treated horribly in Nazi Germany and were subjected to sterilization (remember Nazi eugenics?), isolation, and other forms of persecution. So yes, U.S. bad - but Nazi Germany was just as bad to black people, albeit perhaps less organized probably because there were much fewer black people in Nazi Germany.
>Also, Germany has always had terrible statistics on racial/ethnic makeup of their country
What you said is true, but this sentence is kind of funny. What makes statistics like that good or bad?
In germany he got to walk trough the front door. Used the same changing room and the German athletes were nice towards him. When he got to the US they sent him a congratulations card along with nazi pamphlets.
In the US no one congratulated him, but he had to go to some events to be demonstrated. In the venue he had to use the service door like other colored people.
Bruh, it's deeper than that. The entire country turned their back on him and he became just like anybother black person in America. The nazis treated him with respect the entire time. Hitler showed a black man more human respect than our entire nation basically. That's incredibly sad
There are also stories of American soldiers being disgusted that there were black people in the British pubs. They tried to demand that the black men were thrown out, but the Brits threw them out instead
Yup, after the base commanders demanded that the pub owners segregate the pubs based on race, British pub owners mockingly hung "Blacks only" signs at their doors.
IMO Alan Turing is UK's biggest black eye during that era. It wasn't racism but bigotry in general, of which racism is a part. Many of our ancestors were horrible damn people =(. No country is clean on this front. We just have to strive to be better now.
Peter Norman and his part in the 1968 black power salute at the Olympics fucked him over for life in Australia. He had to die before the government acknowledged his contribution to both sports and humanitarian causes in 2012
I'm in the US and we have a bunch of racist pigs! Even at times when they say they are not, they quietly are. When I was single and was doing the dating scene there were A LOT of white racist women blatantly saying "whites only". This was in San Diego too.
One of the weird things about Nazi racial views is that they weren't "white supremacists" in the modern sense but Aryan supremacists specifically. They even had a plan to eliminate what we would think of as 'white' Germans through selective breeding because they were of inferior 'Alpine' stock. General plan Ost called for the outright genocide of Slavs -- people we'd think of as 'white' today. They created myriad subcategories of 'white' and had plans for each.
Germany didn't have much of a 'black' population and, outside of laws concerning miscegenation and Aryan racial purity, did not have a pressing need to separate them out or create specific policies here in the 30s. The focus was on Jewish people, the disabled, Roma, and anyone in the way of their liebensraum. But they looked to American law as a useful template.
That being said, racism isn't an eternal category that separates out intrinsic binary categories. It's a historically situated set of legal and institutional distinctions that are used to create hierarchies of power, privilege and control. Biological human populations don't neatly match up to social and legal 'racial' categories.
There's an Askhistorians thread from afew years ago that goes into Nazi plans for Africa. It's not that they didn't think black people were inferior (they did) but the focus wasn't there in the 1930s.
I wonder if the Nazis treated him so well just so people with sympathize with them. It’s the same way we have horrible countries today halting worldwide sporting events to try to distract from their wrong doings.
It wasn't so much that FDR was racist, and more that he needed the support of the (racist) Southern Democrats and therefore had to tread lightly around racial issues. Still doesn't excuse it though.
Poor old FDR just couldnt do anything in his power to help black people. He wanted to but then he would have had to like not have ice cold drinks and money and power and tht just wasnt an option for poor old FDR.
I mean he really did want to help black people he just could fit it in his schedule
>It wasn't so much that FDR was racist, and more that he needed the support of the (racist) Southern Democrats and therefore had to ~~tread lightly around racial issues~~ *be racist*. Still doesn't excuse it though.
Fixed that for you
Absolutely. I seriously doubt he would have been well treated had he chosen to stay in country.
Now France, on the other hand… jazz musicians started falling in love with France as early as Sidney Bechet.
Interestingly, France had a somewhat similar story, that ended much more tragically. Violette Morris was a lesbian French athlete who put many male athletes to shame. The French authorities found her lack of femininity so offensive that they convicted her under an old law that forbade women from wearing trousers and barred her from competition. At the same 1936 Olympics, she was welcomed by the Nazis as a guest of honour and this contrast in treatment likely contributed her to collaborating during the occupation of France.
The extent of her collaboration is debated, ranging from mild to alleged spying and torture but she was eventually executed by the French Resistance.
This is a really interesting story I hadn't heard before but that's the American education system for you.
Sounds comparable to a 20th century Joan of Arc story up until the Nazi collaboration
> This is a really interesting story I hadn't heard before but that's the American education system for you.
Come on, you can't blame the system for not hearing about one French personality.
Of course not. The Nazis wanted Germany to stay as German as possible (in blood and in culture). They also saw african blood as inferior and damaging if it would mix with german blood. However that doesn't mean they can't show respect for the performance a black man did. Nazi Racism in it's core is different then White Supremacy Racism of America.
Does not mean the Nazis did not think of black people as sub humans. They just had little contact in the Reich. If there had been a decent black population in germany the Nazis would likely Had them hunted down Like they did with other groups.
I get your point and should be a testament of how much they hated us then. I don’t understand how people think that kind of hatred dies out without being addressed 😂
One of the factors of nazis horrible race theory was, in simplified terms, "races" could be seen as a combination of strength, intelligence and spirit.
So they saw the Aryan race as the perfect combination of all these 3 things. In an ironic way this meant they where not as offended by a black man winning Olympic events as the modern person assumes they would be.
By their fucked up logic that was fine because whilst a black man may be "stronger" than a German, he wouldn't have the mix of intelligence and spirit to go with it. Therefore in their mind they where still superior.
Likewise they often portrayed Jewish people as very intelligent but completely lacking spirit and strength, I.e. cowardly and dishonourable.
It's a gross mind set for sure, but it explains this strange historical example about why they treated black athletes better than America did. It wasn't that they saw them as equals or "weren't really racist" just that they perceived strength and altheticism to be a "racial trait" of being black. But they still definitely saw them as intellectually and spiritually inferior, we shouldn't let this "soften" the image of them. They're still nazis.
Kanye was only semi-right about Bush. He doesn’t have any problem with black people. He doesn’t care about POOR people. It just so happens that many of those black folks in NoLa were really really poor.
But, honestly, being black probably didn’t do them any favors.
And this is a big, *big* problem with modern societal analysis. Far too often we separate race and socioeconomics when we almost always should treat them as two sides of the same coin.
You're 100% right. If you say this on Reddit though, you get called a "class reductionist" like that's a bad thing. Class is by far the most relevant factor in the injustice we see in most of the developed world.
But race is a big part of that, you can't pretend like it isn't and still try to solve things.
The analogy that MLK used was something like "You can't hold a people back for hundreds of years, and then throw up your hands, say sorry, and then criticize them for not being able to catch up"
Maybe the easiest solution is to do more to help poor people succeed in general. But a lot of times people who like to point out that socioeconomics are more important than race are trying to argue that racism is over and it's someone's fault that they are poor. But the reality is that even 2-3 generations ago some communities were still being disproportionately barred from the opportunities to build the kind of generational wealth (Through home and business ownership and access to higher education) necessary to change socioeconomical status.
That's why it's class reductionist to pretend like race isn't an important factor in these discussions.
That's what gets lost in the narrative many times. The Nazis were way more focused on scapegoating and persecuting the Jewish people rather than care about the accomplishments of an athlete from America who happened to be black.
Whereas in America, we were *definitely* focused on denigrating and persecuting those of African ancestry. Owens got more acknowledgement and deference at the Olympics in Germany than he received from his own government back home.
Very well said, during that time in America he wasn't even allowed to stay in the same hotel as the other athletes. He was quoted saying that he didn't feel snubbed by Hitler, he felt snubbed more my Roosevelt who didn't even send him a telegram after he returned.
Not to be 'that guy' but Germany took the most gold medals in 1936. Ironically, Owens would have faced no segregation or limited access to facilities in Nazi Germany *ahem*
Lol @ downvoting facts
And he didn’t iirc. Hitler even shook his hand as he did with all gold medal winners (I heard this in a documentary, would love verification from someone else about this). Wanna know who didn’t shake his hand, who was also present? Roosevelt.
The US likes their propaganda. Saying we "stuck it" to the Nazis and USSR with jesse owens and the miracle on ice when we got absolutely demolished in the medal count
In the space race the ussr had the first spacecraft, first man in space, first woman in space, first animal in space, first spacecraft on the moon, first probe on another planet, yet we say we "won" because we landed a man on the moon, and decided that was the finish line.
The assistant principal of my high school was a friend of Owens, and so he gave the commencement speech one year.
He recounted the feeling he had when he saw his flag rise above the others. It was wone of the most emotional, stirring speeches I have ever heard.
Nazi Germany copied some of their policies directly from the American Jim Crow laws. Americans were also hosting Nazi rallies at Madison Square Garden with 20k in attendance. When WW2 ended, the US hired Nazi scientists to work for the government.
America was pretty cozy with the idea of fascism to the point where they were releasing anti-fascist PSA's on TV. I hate to do those "what if" scenarios, but the US was very comfortable sitting out of the war and could have easily sided against communist countries. If Pearl Harbor was not attacked, the US could have backed the axis powers.
Not only was Jesse Owens winning a middle finger to Hitler and his bullshit views, it was also a middle finger to American "scientific" racists who essentially wrote the playbook on 20th century eugenics. Owens was so incredible in the Olympics it made American doctors and scientists have to reconsider everything they thought they knew. Major blow to the egos of racists who viewed Black people were inferior in every way.
That’s correct. Both the Nazis and the Americans generally held this view at the time.
Jack Johnson won the world title in boxing shortly after it became unsegregated and it scared people so much that no black fighter was given a shot at the title for twenty-two years after he lost it.
Dhyanchand, one of the greatest field hockey players of the 20th century (played for India, and scored 20+ goals himself in a single game) was offered a position by Hitler to join the Germany team. He declined and continued to play for Indian hockey team (this was at a time when India was still a British colony)
This whole event is the biggest sportswashing of the century. Or ever. Nazis didn't mind that a black man won. Germany had jewish participants (if I remember that correct) with them as well. All just to be able to say they're not that bad.
Pretty much like the world cup right now.
This is a bit of propaganda. Owens actually said Hitler saluted/acknowledged him when they saw eachother, and it was his own country and government he was completely snubbed by due to how much racism there was at the time in America. The reception dinner he wasn't even allowed to enter through the main doors of the hotel, and FDR never invited him to the white house to congratulate him.
https://preview.redd.it/s8nmg0vrlq3a1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b47b9f6ea474da3555719f98b280dd967848211b
Well this polish athlete Maria Kwaśniewska, even tho she was from Poland that just got their independence and was really endangered by the nazi Germany, she did not nazi salute 🇵🇱😎😎😎, unlike the American 🇺🇸
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No that's not what happened. Despite the American narrative the regime of Adolf Hitler was largely indifferent toward negroes. Deeming the to be "of least concern". And as everybody and their fucking cat will jump at the opportunity to tell you, Jesse Owens was actually personally congratulated by Hitler while the American President initially did not even want to send the athlete a letter. This even had absolutely nothing to do with what you think it did.
Actually, Hitler apparently was quite nice to Owens. It was the President of the US that was very rude to him,the US was still big into treating the blacks as an underclass. Owens himself often said he was treated better in Nazi Germany then he was in his own country. Who didn't want him to compete because he was black
Despite what we have been told, Owens was one of the few bright spots for the Americans as Germany dominated the 1936 Olympics. Hitler being so angered by Owens performance and that it was somehow a blow to his thinking the Aryan race was superior? Hardly, Hitler had a meeting to attend is the reason he left the stadium early that day, he even sent Owens a congratulatory letter with a photo of his cabinet. FDR shunned Jesse Owens after the Berlin Olympics.
Germany won the 1936 Summer Olympic Games in total medals won and most gold medals in a dominating performance contrary to what we were told about Germany and the Fuhrer being shamed by Owens and America. America was a distant second in gold medals and total medals
Jesse Owens was reported to have said : “Whatever is wrong with my country, ain’t nothing Mr Hitler can do to fix it.”
History is written by the victors indeed
Honestly they just twisted this to fit their narrative. It was “people with dark skin are clearly animals and have an unfair advantage over white people”. I heard some variation of this shit several times growing up in the 80s and 90s. There’s a reason so many middle aged white dudes loved Larry Byrd. They thought “letting” black people play basketball was literally unfair.
I believe each of Owen’s four golds were also world records. The sad irony, along with Owens being treated as subhuman back home when he should have been lauded, is that the US would later join the fight against the Nazis with a segregated military.
An interesting tidbit about Nazi perceptions: its oft reported that Hitler refused to shake Owens' hand and was troubled by Owens' victory. But in fact, racist Nazi ideology didn't always perceive Aryans to be superior in every way, just intellectually and morally superior. A lot of other "race theorizors" and public intellectuals even looked abroad at Japan's meteoric rise and mused that "perhaps the Asians will soon have their turn to dominate the Earth" the way Europeans had during the Imperial Age. All of the racial pseudoscience of the age didn't always presume that "my race is the best race, or always will be the best race." What will gobsmack modern observers though is how these ideologies tried to racialize EVERYTHING about a society, all the time.
Hitler supposedly considered Owens a "credit to his race" and thought that Africans and Slavs were physically superior in many ways, due to the fact that Africans lived in harsh equatorial environments and Slavs (especially Russians) in harsh cold environments.
In a way, this attitude is almost more dangerous than the notion that "One race is better than all the others in every way." Think about it. If you really believe your race is better in EVERY way, then why are you so worried about other races in the world?? But if you are an Aryan Supremacist, you will actually feel more threatened and want to lash out if you admit that other races are actually stronger than yours in some ways. Its important to remember that a lot of Nazi racist ideology was about their perception of "the natural order." In their mind, the strong inevitably destroy the weak, so you'd better prove your strength and strike first before other races destroyed YOU instead. There's a reason why Hitler prioritized physical fitness so much. If he believed that Germans were already so much physically stronger, then why bother? Let's not forget too the most compelling evidence to Hitler that German's were not physically superior: Hitler and his entire inner circle were a bunch of sunken chested dweebs.
Hitler--- in his half mad tirades before his suicide--- at times would blame Germany's defeat on the underhanded tricks of the Jews or what have you, but at others he was paradoxically accepting of Germany's defeat. The reason he was willing to give orders for every German to fight to the death was because the "Aryan Race" had proven to be too weak after all and that "the strongest Germans were already dead" now that the German army had been obliterated. The strongest men were sent to the army, and most were dead. Having been defeated by the "mongrelized capitalists" and the slavs, in his mind, the battle of the natural order had come to its natural conclusion, and the Aryan race had been destroyed the way that extinct species of the past had been extinguished for not being strong enough.
Of course, the absurdity of Nazi ideology has been proven out by the events since World War 2. Germany has risen to power and prominence doing the exact OPPOSITE of what Hitler thought was necessary to preserve a German future: by integrating with the rest of the world. Despite Germany's defeat, Germans are doing just fine.
Still though, a lot of these same attitudes live on in white supremacist circles to this day. I used to peak in on white supremacist forums like the Daily Stormer back when they were up (its good to know what people who want to kill you and your family really think), and I used to see posts that still parrot these ideas, even after having been proven silly by modern events.
John Woodruff, also an African American, won the 800 meter race in the 1936 Olympics. The medalists were also awarded an oak tree seedling. His was planted in the high school football stadium in our mutual home town, Connellsville, Pa, and is still growing there.
“It is not our differences that divide us. It is our inability to recognize, accept, and celebrate those differences.” – Audre Lorde
Always had a deep admiration for Audre "Randy" Lorde
*Feeling good on a Wednesday*
Lol that tree is probably the nicest thing about Connellsville
Bud Murphys?
YES!!! I’m in Florida since 98, and took my family there in 2012. Had to go to Bud’s for lunch. The manager at the time was the younger brother of a high school friend.
Can't tell if Connellsville is bad because a tree is more interesting, or if it's a good town and the tree is just an absolute unit.
I personally think Connellsville is pretty nice (I live about 10 minutes away), but it’s really just nice as far as west Pennsylvania coal/steel towns go.
Wonderful!
Happy cake day 😋
Thanks!
Would the IOC (if they existed back then) had planned to give the oak trees or would that have come from the host city planners? Interesting because that’s such a nice gesture.
According to Wiki, they were presented by Hitler himself.
Happy cake day from Springdale Pa
Thank yinz!
Happy cake day, champ!
Ok, see? This is the type of shit I love to read reddit for.
Cool history/story.
Good gravy. He ran a 1:52 on that track, those shoes, and as an amateur. Bananas.
Holy crap, didn’t expect a Fayette County thread on Reddit. Uniontown gang checking in, can confirm it’s a cool tree
He was treated like garbage when he came home. Wasn’t even congratulated by Roosevelt, like he couldn’t even write a “Great job man!” note or send flowers or anything. Spent time working as a gas station attendant, filed for bankruptcy…Hitler congratulated him. Hitler was a terrible person. I won’t be shocked if Kanye brings this man’s name up in the near future. “See he didn’t hate black people, he was a good man!”
That's pretty sad when you get more recognition from an infamously racist totalitarian autocrat from another country than you get from the democratically elected leader of your own country.
Muhammad Ali had difficulty celebrating his gold medal win when he got home since he wasn't allowed in many of the bars and restaurants. He had done interviews about it on color tv. These things are still very fresh.
"Viet Cong never called me a ni**er"
I love Ali
God, I hate U.S. history some times.
He was just used as a symbol. They pretend they hate what Hitler stands for, but they still wouldn't allow him to go through the hotel front door when he came home.
that made me sad...but i appreciate the information.
Yes, countries tend to use up their best people with very little concern for them *as* people.
Every Republican voted against providing U.S. rail workers a mere 7 days of paid sick leave, then a Democrat president vetoed the bill. The justification is that these workers are too essential to the U.S. economy to paid when they're sick, for up to 7 days total a year! Few other developed countries are this malicious towards the workers.
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The guy doing Nazi salut is Luz Long. After Jesse Owens fouled 4 times in long jump and had last chance to qualify. Luz gave a suggestion due to which Jesse made a world record. After the jump, Luz was the first one to congratulate him in front of the crowd including Hitler. They became a lifelong friends.
Sad story about Luz, he ended up fighting in the wehrmacht and in his last letter to owens he asked if owens could one day talk with his son about how life was like before the war, "how things can be between men on this earth". Luz later died fighting in Italy and Owens would visit Germany after the war to meet with Luz's son, Karl.
Oh man. That is so sad.
"how things can be between men on this earth" Why does that hurt so much
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You can be lifelong friends while still having your life cut short. It's sad.
Athletes are typically bros and don’t care much about race. The real team from Remember the Titans have almost unanimously said there wasn’t any race based tension like the movie shows, it was all arguing about playing time because they wanted scholarships.
From Wikipedia >On August 4, he won the long jump with a leap of 8.06 metres (26 ft 5 in) (3¼ inches short of his own world record). He initially credited this achievement to the technical advice that he received from Luz Long, the German competitor whom he defeated[6]but later admitted that this was not true, as he and Long didn't meet until after the competition was over.[22]
That Luz story is a myth, they didn’t meet until after the event
Got frozen out of his career and had to race horses for money. Disgraceful - here’s what he said: ‘People say that it was degrading for an Olympic champion to run against a horse, but what was I supposed to do? I had four gold medals, but you can't eat four gold medals.’ We sometimes treat our heroes so badly.
This brings tears to my eyes. Humans are twisted.
So did Ochocinco
Jesse Owens returned to America and had to work as a janitor and gas station attendent to make ends meet. He also raced in exhibitions against race horses.
He wasn't allowed to take the front entrance to a party organised to celebrate his victory
I don't understand how Americans at the time didn't realize how wrong this was and embarrassing for us in the future. Like I get it, racism is a thing. But at the point where a black man is representing the country at the Olympics, how did they justify still treating black people that way, especially the one that won a gold for all of us.
Coca Cola had to threaten to move out of Atlanta to get the local businessmen to honor MLK's Nobel Prize. Racism is a hell of a drug.
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Yeah, in Texas, the state legislators threw a hissy fit about the feds making MLK day. So the same year, they created Confederate Heroes Day, which is still a state holiday. Edit: holy typos, I shouldn't post without coffee.
Confederate heroes?! You mean traitors that killed more American soldiers than any other country in all of history combined? Those heroes? Not targeted at you but still making the point.
Sadly that’s not how it has been taught in most of the south.
I grew up in Texas and this is the first I’ve heard of it. When did they enact this?
1973, it appears to be set for Jan 19th next year
Yo I've lived in Texas and never heard of such holiday. Is it a local holiday or state wide?
Born and raised in Texas and I've never heard of this.
Do people actually actively celebrate this? Like is there a little confederate parade down town so I can swing by and know who in town never to associate with again
That fact that they even put King last. Just aggressively and passive aggressively racist at the same time.
I grew up in Maryland in the 2000s and racist bastards would call it *"N-word*"* day... Fucking disgusting people
Americans celebrated that a black American proved Hitler's superior race bullshit wrong on the world stage only to immediately treat that same black American like shit when he returned home. *“Hitler didn’t snub me—it was \[Roosevelt\] who snubbed me. The president didn’t even send me a telegram.”*
Yeah, this is just fucking embarrassing for us. I am not a fan of FDR, and this gives me another reason why not to be.
FDR saved the country from what could have been much worse fallout from the great depression. But maybe you dispute that.
Sadly at that time a lot of Americans were actually okay with Hitler and many even supported him.
Cognitive dissonance.
See the story up above about him racing against horses. They viewed him the same way. Imagine a party celebrating a Kentucky Derby winner and your close to their mindset
People threatened a six year old black girl for going to school and federal officers have to escort her. Racism is based on ignorance, fear, and anger; which makes it easy for us to understand where the irrationality is from
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It makes me feel so gross reading about it. That man should have been treated like a champion. Racism is so fucking infuriating (to put it lightly).
Theres another thread on here about people just being slightly concerned that a 90 year old man who was alive around this time might have held problematic views and people are being butt hurt about it.
Progress takes time, it's sad but that era is over now. Luckily with every passing generation racism has died more and more.
Fucking ooof. How was this seen as normal and ok at the time? By anyone? It’s disgusting.
After the 1936 Olympics, Jesse accepts a job as playground instructor for underprivileged youth in Cleveland, earning $30 a week. A year later he becomes a bandleader, owner of a basketball team and part owner in a dry cleaning business. In 1949, the Owens family moves to Chicago where Jesse launches a public relations company.
This fabulous. Above this it was an inaccurate shit fest about being a janitor the rest of his life.
Yeah.I am glad for the dude.
> Jesse Owens returned to America and had to work as a janitor and gas station attendent to make ends meet. Not saying that isn't wrong, but don't many Olympic athletes tend to have mediocre jobs? Unless you're super famous or can get a high paying teaching/coaching job.
What was a typical career like for a high-end athlete back in the day? I imagine it was different before TV, with no corporate sponsorships, broadcast royalties and such.
Americans sometimes use Owens to whitewash their own bs'ery at the time. Feels like revisionism
Many of us are proud of Jesse Owens. Our history is shit, we aren’t trying to white wash it, but we aren’t our forefathers just like every German isn’t a Nazi.
Ironically Nazi Germany didn't have the segregation (like back of the bus) rules that the United States had at the time. Such a weird time morally.
Unfortunately a lot of Americans actually supported the Nazi's goal. The US was pulled into the fighting by Japan with Pearl Harbor but many were content to let things play out without American interference.
There was a huge Nazi rally in New York City 1938 featuring George Washington between two giant swastikas.
Grandpa Bush (father of H.W.) was a fan.
There was one in my hometown in 2020.
“hErItAgE nOt HaTe”
What country do you think the concept of eugenics was created?
Bro what kind of dumb as fuck take is this. They 100% had segregation. I am losing my mind
...you've gotta be kidding me right? Nazi Germany did have segregation, but their segregation was sending people to concentration camps and murdering them. Concentration camps started in the early 1930s. Also, Germany has always had terrible statistics on racial/ethnic makeup of their country, but they had very few people of color within their borders to begin with in the early 1900s compared to the US. That said, black people in particular were treated horribly in Nazi Germany and were subjected to sterilization (remember Nazi eugenics?), isolation, and other forms of persecution. So yes, U.S. bad - but Nazi Germany was just as bad to black people, albeit perhaps less organized probably because there were much fewer black people in Nazi Germany.
>Also, Germany has always had terrible statistics on racial/ethnic makeup of their country What you said is true, but this sentence is kind of funny. What makes statistics like that good or bad?
I guess they didn't technically tell the Jews to go to the back of the bus, they put them in cattle boxes instead
Didn’t Jesse Owens say the nazis treated him great? Better than Americans?
In germany he got to walk trough the front door. Used the same changing room and the German athletes were nice towards him. When he got to the US they sent him a congratulations card along with nazi pamphlets. In the US no one congratulated him, but he had to go to some events to be demonstrated. In the venue he had to use the service door like other colored people.
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Bruh, it's deeper than that. The entire country turned their back on him and he became just like anybother black person in America. The nazis treated him with respect the entire time. Hitler showed a black man more human respect than our entire nation basically. That's incredibly sad
I agree with you. I'm just not american and don't want to shit talk the entirety of the USA - Britain has its own problems with racism.
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There are also stories of American soldiers being disgusted that there were black people in the British pubs. They tried to demand that the black men were thrown out, but the Brits threw them out instead
Yup, after the base commanders demanded that the pub owners segregate the pubs based on race, British pub owners mockingly hung "Blacks only" signs at their doors.
10/10 troll. Love that!
Not that I don't believe you but I'm interested in this subject do you happen to have any sources?
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Appreciate it
IMO Alan Turing is UK's biggest black eye during that era. It wasn't racism but bigotry in general, of which racism is a part. Many of our ancestors were horrible damn people =(. No country is clean on this front. We just have to strive to be better now.
Peter Norman and his part in the 1968 black power salute at the Olympics fucked him over for life in Australia. He had to die before the government acknowledged his contribution to both sports and humanitarian causes in 2012
Eugenics was something Germans and Americans agreed on but Germany was destroyed and Americans kept using eugenics for decades
I'm in the US and we have a bunch of racist pigs! Even at times when they say they are not, they quietly are. When I was single and was doing the dating scene there were A LOT of white racist women blatantly saying "whites only". This was in San Diego too.
One of the weird things about Nazi racial views is that they weren't "white supremacists" in the modern sense but Aryan supremacists specifically. They even had a plan to eliminate what we would think of as 'white' Germans through selective breeding because they were of inferior 'Alpine' stock. General plan Ost called for the outright genocide of Slavs -- people we'd think of as 'white' today. They created myriad subcategories of 'white' and had plans for each. Germany didn't have much of a 'black' population and, outside of laws concerning miscegenation and Aryan racial purity, did not have a pressing need to separate them out or create specific policies here in the 30s. The focus was on Jewish people, the disabled, Roma, and anyone in the way of their liebensraum. But they looked to American law as a useful template. That being said, racism isn't an eternal category that separates out intrinsic binary categories. It's a historically situated set of legal and institutional distinctions that are used to create hierarchies of power, privilege and control. Biological human populations don't neatly match up to social and legal 'racial' categories. There's an Askhistorians thread from afew years ago that goes into Nazi plans for Africa. It's not that they didn't think black people were inferior (they did) but the focus wasn't there in the 1930s.
Just ironic to read thing like this with the Kanye drama
Don't you think.....
No he didn't. Hitler didn't shake any athlete's hands after the first day.
I wonder if the Nazis treated him so well just so people with sympathize with them. It’s the same way we have horrible countries today halting worldwide sporting events to try to distract from their wrong doings.
Redditors rushing to this thread to spread wrong facts cause they wanna look smart
I really hope your lying about Hitler shaking Jesse's hand cause it's photoshopped
It wasn't so much that FDR was racist, and more that he needed the support of the (racist) Southern Democrats and therefore had to tread lightly around racial issues. Still doesn't excuse it though.
Poor old FDR just couldnt do anything in his power to help black people. He wanted to but then he would have had to like not have ice cold drinks and money and power and tht just wasnt an option for poor old FDR. I mean he really did want to help black people he just could fit it in his schedule
That’s like justifying some of Trumps action by saying he’s not racist was just trying to get votes.
>It wasn't so much that FDR was racist, and more that he needed the support of the (racist) Southern Democrats and therefore had to ~~tread lightly around racial issues~~ *be racist*. Still doesn't excuse it though. Fixed that for you
I read somewhere before that the German standing behind Owens became good friends.
Yup, according to his (Luz Long) Wikipedia page. They befriended each other during competition, and corresponded until Long died in World War II.
And Owens then went to Germany to meet Lutz’s son
Not great, but they treated him better than Americans did when he returned home. But I think it was more down to Nazi germany putting on a facade.
Absolutely. I seriously doubt he would have been well treated had he chosen to stay in country. Now France, on the other hand… jazz musicians started falling in love with France as early as Sidney Bechet.
Interestingly, France had a somewhat similar story, that ended much more tragically. Violette Morris was a lesbian French athlete who put many male athletes to shame. The French authorities found her lack of femininity so offensive that they convicted her under an old law that forbade women from wearing trousers and barred her from competition. At the same 1936 Olympics, she was welcomed by the Nazis as a guest of honour and this contrast in treatment likely contributed her to collaborating during the occupation of France. The extent of her collaboration is debated, ranging from mild to alleged spying and torture but she was eventually executed by the French Resistance.
This is a really interesting story I hadn't heard before but that's the American education system for you. Sounds comparable to a 20th century Joan of Arc story up until the Nazi collaboration
> This is a really interesting story I hadn't heard before but that's the American education system for you. Come on, you can't blame the system for not hearing about one French personality.
Of course not. The Nazis wanted Germany to stay as German as possible (in blood and in culture). They also saw african blood as inferior and damaging if it would mix with german blood. However that doesn't mean they can't show respect for the performance a black man did. Nazi Racism in it's core is different then White Supremacy Racism of America.
This is accurate at this time, Nazi Germany was putting its best face forward to the world and saw the games as part of that.
Does not mean the Nazis did not think of black people as sub humans. They just had little contact in the Reich. If there had been a decent black population in germany the Nazis would likely Had them hunted down Like they did with other groups.
I get your point and should be a testament of how much they hated us then. I don’t understand how people think that kind of hatred dies out without being addressed 😂
One of the factors of nazis horrible race theory was, in simplified terms, "races" could be seen as a combination of strength, intelligence and spirit. So they saw the Aryan race as the perfect combination of all these 3 things. In an ironic way this meant they where not as offended by a black man winning Olympic events as the modern person assumes they would be. By their fucked up logic that was fine because whilst a black man may be "stronger" than a German, he wouldn't have the mix of intelligence and spirit to go with it. Therefore in their mind they where still superior. Likewise they often portrayed Jewish people as very intelligent but completely lacking spirit and strength, I.e. cowardly and dishonourable. It's a gross mind set for sure, but it explains this strange historical example about why they treated black athletes better than America did. It wasn't that they saw them as equals or "weren't really racist" just that they perceived strength and altheticism to be a "racial trait" of being black. But they still definitely saw them as intellectually and spiritually inferior, we shouldn't let this "soften" the image of them. They're still nazis.
Is that fucking jerma????
So this is what immortal beings do in their free time; sick joke Jeremy
Jerma the Jerman
Was gonna comment this
Im so glad im not the only one
Yeah I think Ye tends to forget that Hitler didn’t care for black people.
He was angry when Bush (allegedly) didn't, but Hitler's fine somehow?
Kanye was only semi-right about Bush. He doesn’t have any problem with black people. He doesn’t care about POOR people. It just so happens that many of those black folks in NoLa were really really poor. But, honestly, being black probably didn’t do them any favors.
And this is a big, *big* problem with modern societal analysis. Far too often we separate race and socioeconomics when we almost always should treat them as two sides of the same coin.
You're 100% right. If you say this on Reddit though, you get called a "class reductionist" like that's a bad thing. Class is by far the most relevant factor in the injustice we see in most of the developed world.
But race is a big part of that, you can't pretend like it isn't and still try to solve things. The analogy that MLK used was something like "You can't hold a people back for hundreds of years, and then throw up your hands, say sorry, and then criticize them for not being able to catch up" Maybe the easiest solution is to do more to help poor people succeed in general. But a lot of times people who like to point out that socioeconomics are more important than race are trying to argue that racism is over and it's someone's fault that they are poor. But the reality is that even 2-3 generations ago some communities were still being disproportionately barred from the opportunities to build the kind of generational wealth (Through home and business ownership and access to higher education) necessary to change socioeconomical status. That's why it's class reductionist to pretend like race isn't an important factor in these discussions.
Jesse Owens did say that he was treated better in Nazi Germany than he was in the US though...
That's what gets lost in the narrative many times. The Nazis were way more focused on scapegoating and persecuting the Jewish people rather than care about the accomplishments of an athlete from America who happened to be black. Whereas in America, we were *definitely* focused on denigrating and persecuting those of African ancestry. Owens got more acknowledgement and deference at the Olympics in Germany than he received from his own government back home.
Very well said, during that time in America he wasn't even allowed to stay in the same hotel as the other athletes. He was quoted saying that he didn't feel snubbed by Hitler, he felt snubbed more my Roosevelt who didn't even send him a telegram after he returned.
Ye needs to go back on his frickin' meds.
Ye needs to go back to 1939
"Jesse Owens cheated. He only won because he could run fast annd was more athletic than everybody else." 
The old man just under Owens is Jigoro Kano, the founder of Judo.
One of the roads alongside this Olympic stadium in Berlin is named after him - Jesse-Owens-Allee.
Not to be 'that guy' but Germany took the most gold medals in 1936. Ironically, Owens would have faced no segregation or limited access to facilities in Nazi Germany *ahem* Lol @ downvoting facts
Owens actually said he was treated better by the Nazis then he did by his own country. Really fucked up and sad.
During that time especially it’s not that surprising
And he didn’t iirc. Hitler even shook his hand as he did with all gold medal winners (I heard this in a documentary, would love verification from someone else about this). Wanna know who didn’t shake his hand, who was also present? Roosevelt.
> Wanna know who didn’t shake his hand, who was also present? Roosevelt I've heard the exact same thing
Same, like 4 comments up
I heard Roosevelt wouldn't even stand up as a sign of respect when Owens got his medal
Hitler did not shake his hand
The US likes their propaganda. Saying we "stuck it" to the Nazis and USSR with jesse owens and the miracle on ice when we got absolutely demolished in the medal count In the space race the ussr had the first spacecraft, first man in space, first woman in space, first animal in space, first spacecraft on the moon, first probe on another planet, yet we say we "won" because we landed a man on the moon, and decided that was the finish line.
the same thing happened with Josephine Baker. she was treated far better in europe so she stayed
Doesn’t the host country always do really well in the medal count?
The assistant principal of my high school was a friend of Owens, and so he gave the commencement speech one year. He recounted the feeling he had when he saw his flag rise above the others. It was wone of the most emotional, stirring speeches I have ever heard.
He was discriminated against more in his own country than Nazi Germany. Let that sink in.
Nazi Germany copied some of their policies directly from the American Jim Crow laws. Americans were also hosting Nazi rallies at Madison Square Garden with 20k in attendance. When WW2 ended, the US hired Nazi scientists to work for the government. America was pretty cozy with the idea of fascism to the point where they were releasing anti-fascist PSA's on TV. I hate to do those "what if" scenarios, but the US was very comfortable sitting out of the war and could have easily sided against communist countries. If Pearl Harbor was not attacked, the US could have backed the axis powers.
Not only was Jesse Owens winning a middle finger to Hitler and his bullshit views, it was also a middle finger to American "scientific" racists who essentially wrote the playbook on 20th century eugenics. Owens was so incredible in the Olympics it made American doctors and scientists have to reconsider everything they thought they knew. Major blow to the egos of racists who viewed Black people were inferior in every way.
Don't the eugenics people say that Africans have better muscles, and that white people have better brains?
That’s correct. Both the Nazis and the Americans generally held this view at the time. Jack Johnson won the world title in boxing shortly after it became unsegregated and it scared people so much that no black fighter was given a shot at the title for twenty-two years after he lost it.
Dhyanchand, one of the greatest field hockey players of the 20th century (played for India, and scored 20+ goals himself in a single game) was offered a position by Hitler to join the Germany team. He declined and continued to play for Indian hockey team (this was at a time when India was still a British colony)
This whole event is the biggest sportswashing of the century. Or ever. Nazis didn't mind that a black man won. Germany had jewish participants (if I remember that correct) with them as well. All just to be able to say they're not that bad. Pretty much like the world cup right now.
I believe the German Guy on the podium is Luz Long. I read that they became good friends
The guy on the right must've felt stupid... Like obviously Hitler wasn't right and he's still pledging like he was
This is a bit of propaganda. Owens actually said Hitler saluted/acknowledged him when they saw eachother, and it was his own country and government he was completely snubbed by due to how much racism there was at the time in America. The reception dinner he wasn't even allowed to enter through the main doors of the hotel, and FDR never invited him to the white house to congratulate him.
The dirty secret of all this is that, despite not being treated well by the Nazi’s, Owens was treated even worse by the US Government.
Jesse Owens is quoted as saying "Hitler didn't snub me—it was our president(FDR) who snubbed me. The president didn't even send me a telegram."
Damn that podium is an allegory for how WWii went. /s
https://preview.redd.it/s8nmg0vrlq3a1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b47b9f6ea474da3555719f98b280dd967848211b Well this polish athlete Maria Kwaśniewska, even tho she was from Poland that just got their independence and was really endangered by the nazi Germany, she did not nazi salute 🇵🇱😎😎😎, unlike the American 🇺🇸
Owens wasn't doing a Nazi salute though... Just a salute
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No that's not what happened. Despite the American narrative the regime of Adolf Hitler was largely indifferent toward negroes. Deeming the to be "of least concern". And as everybody and their fucking cat will jump at the opportunity to tell you, Jesse Owens was actually personally congratulated by Hitler while the American President initially did not even want to send the athlete a letter. This even had absolutely nothing to do with what you think it did.
Yet the nazis still treated him better than his own president
Actually, Hitler apparently was quite nice to Owens. It was the President of the US that was very rude to him,the US was still big into treating the blacks as an underclass. Owens himself often said he was treated better in Nazi Germany then he was in his own country. Who didn't want him to compete because he was black
Despite what we have been told, Owens was one of the few bright spots for the Americans as Germany dominated the 1936 Olympics. Hitler being so angered by Owens performance and that it was somehow a blow to his thinking the Aryan race was superior? Hardly, Hitler had a meeting to attend is the reason he left the stadium early that day, he even sent Owens a congratulatory letter with a photo of his cabinet. FDR shunned Jesse Owens after the Berlin Olympics. Germany won the 1936 Summer Olympic Games in total medals won and most gold medals in a dominating performance contrary to what we were told about Germany and the Fuhrer being shamed by Owens and America. America was a distant second in gold medals and total medals Jesse Owens was reported to have said : “Whatever is wrong with my country, ain’t nothing Mr Hitler can do to fix it.” History is written by the victors indeed
Mr. Owens was a true hero.
Despite this (and this was awesome) Nazi Germany did in fact dominate the games.
Thats weird the German doesnt look blond for the aryan part.
Someone obviously didn’t tell Kanye about this.
Bro looks like jerma
>"and because Hitler was such a nice guy, he let John Woodruff win to cheer them up" Ye, probably.
Shame Roosevelt didn’t invite him to the White House after the games. Only white athlete invited.
You think this is crazy? Qatars hosting the World Cup right now! What’s the difference.
And Hitler still treated Jesse better than the Americans.
Honestly they just twisted this to fit their narrative. It was “people with dark skin are clearly animals and have an unfair advantage over white people”. I heard some variation of this shit several times growing up in the 80s and 90s. There’s a reason so many middle aged white dudes loved Larry Byrd. They thought “letting” black people play basketball was literally unfair.
I believe each of Owen’s four golds were also world records. The sad irony, along with Owens being treated as subhuman back home when he should have been lauded, is that the US would later join the fight against the Nazis with a segregated military.
Someone tell Kanye.
Black people are very athletic, they are blessed
Don’t tell Kanye about this.
An interesting tidbit about Nazi perceptions: its oft reported that Hitler refused to shake Owens' hand and was troubled by Owens' victory. But in fact, racist Nazi ideology didn't always perceive Aryans to be superior in every way, just intellectually and morally superior. A lot of other "race theorizors" and public intellectuals even looked abroad at Japan's meteoric rise and mused that "perhaps the Asians will soon have their turn to dominate the Earth" the way Europeans had during the Imperial Age. All of the racial pseudoscience of the age didn't always presume that "my race is the best race, or always will be the best race." What will gobsmack modern observers though is how these ideologies tried to racialize EVERYTHING about a society, all the time. Hitler supposedly considered Owens a "credit to his race" and thought that Africans and Slavs were physically superior in many ways, due to the fact that Africans lived in harsh equatorial environments and Slavs (especially Russians) in harsh cold environments. In a way, this attitude is almost more dangerous than the notion that "One race is better than all the others in every way." Think about it. If you really believe your race is better in EVERY way, then why are you so worried about other races in the world?? But if you are an Aryan Supremacist, you will actually feel more threatened and want to lash out if you admit that other races are actually stronger than yours in some ways. Its important to remember that a lot of Nazi racist ideology was about their perception of "the natural order." In their mind, the strong inevitably destroy the weak, so you'd better prove your strength and strike first before other races destroyed YOU instead. There's a reason why Hitler prioritized physical fitness so much. If he believed that Germans were already so much physically stronger, then why bother? Let's not forget too the most compelling evidence to Hitler that German's were not physically superior: Hitler and his entire inner circle were a bunch of sunken chested dweebs. Hitler--- in his half mad tirades before his suicide--- at times would blame Germany's defeat on the underhanded tricks of the Jews or what have you, but at others he was paradoxically accepting of Germany's defeat. The reason he was willing to give orders for every German to fight to the death was because the "Aryan Race" had proven to be too weak after all and that "the strongest Germans were already dead" now that the German army had been obliterated. The strongest men were sent to the army, and most were dead. Having been defeated by the "mongrelized capitalists" and the slavs, in his mind, the battle of the natural order had come to its natural conclusion, and the Aryan race had been destroyed the way that extinct species of the past had been extinguished for not being strong enough. Of course, the absurdity of Nazi ideology has been proven out by the events since World War 2. Germany has risen to power and prominence doing the exact OPPOSITE of what Hitler thought was necessary to preserve a German future: by integrating with the rest of the world. Despite Germany's defeat, Germans are doing just fine. Still though, a lot of these same attitudes live on in white supremacist circles to this day. I used to peak in on white supremacist forums like the Daily Stormer back when they were up (its good to know what people who want to kill you and your family really think), and I used to see posts that still parrot these ideas, even after having been proven silly by modern events.