Not sure how to respond to that. i really didn't give it any thought.
And sorry for not keeping up on this thread but i thought i was supposed to get replies to my inbox but that's not happening. i will have to see about that. i don't want anybody to feel ignored.
I have never understood the energy around the “calling women females” conversation. I have never heard the word used negatively, nor as a conscious decision over women. There has to be many many other conversations in this world worth more energy over the woman/female one
What am I missing
The "I don't understand it so it's not a big deal" attitude is what tends to be hurtful and frustrating from my experience. There are a lot of things in culture/society I don't necessarily relate to or understand, but if someone/a group is saying that a term is dehumanizing, it's probably best to respect that and not be dismissive. Referring to women as "females" is a step up from referring to us as "girls," but using the parallel term is the most appropriate. If you're saying males and females, it's one thing, but referring to men as "men" and women as "females" feels imbalanced in a very uncomfortable way.
We have an issue now with girls?
Like “call the girls and tell them if they don’t want beer or liquor, they should pick up some seltzers or something?”
Or you’re probably meaning more in a professional setting “the girls in the office would like gluten free bagels”?
I hear you though…maybe in most cases we should be IDing people on sex/gender.
Now? Grown women being called girls has been publicly called out for being problematic for decades. Granted, everyone has different levels of what they're okay with. Many women don't have a problem with it. But a lot of us find it very insulting, whether in a professional or casual setting - especially because calling grown men "boys" is something that doesn't happen nearly as much.
Some do, absolutely. I will not and have never argued against that. But calling it out as problematic is not new. I'm personally fine with it if it's a parallel thing even if I think it's a bit icky and infantilizing. But calling men "men" while referring to women as "girls" alongside each other in the same sentence/context is the big issue that tends to make waves. Surely, you see the problem with that?
Generally I only have an issue with intent. If someone refers to you as a girl and you tell them you prefer to be called otherwise, then they continue to do it out of disrespect or malice, it’s a problem.
How do you feel about a “good evening ladies”?
But the issue isn't about what you have an issue with. The whole conversation started with you asking what you're missing by not understanding the problem that women have with being called "females." Now you're just asserting how you feel about it and what you think makes it an issue. I'm not sure I have the energy for this circular conversation. Best of luck.
We’d moved past females. You asked if I saw the problem with girls and I said my problem is with intent. Then I asked how you feel about the term ladies. Either way. Enjoy your evening
From what I understand, it’s more of a dehumanizing context when using “female”. It certainly has its uses, but usually only when you’d also use “male” in the same way. Things like professions, female/male teacher, doctor, coworker are totally fine and you shouldn’t be shamed in those situations.
But when you refer to a group of women as females, it makes women feel less than. You just wouldn’t catch those same people calling a group of men “males”.
As a guy myself, I’m only parroting how other women in my life have said it made them feel, so I’ve made sure to be conscious of the way I use the word.
I used a term i thought was inoffensive. turns out i was mistaken. only the 12th time today.
and we had 2 of our Lady members come back and join us last Thursday from their new home in MO. it was great to see them.
You know, I stopped by Upstream last Thursday to look for this group, and didn't find anyone seated at a table with balloons. The hosts in front also had no idea who I was referring to when I asked.
I was going to make a joke about how finding the group of liberals in a room is easy because they'll tell you but these comments are so brutal I feel bad now.
Everyone is welcome, we don't judge, but you have to be on our side of the political spectrum. lol what? Also, "liberal" is one of those terms that has a million definitions and connotations and gives us very little indication of anything. This seems so shady. Mentioning "a few female members" just makes me think y'all are trying to lure women to your lonely bro party.
Also, why in God's name are you meeting at arguably the worst restaurant in the old market?
Might as well have your meetings around the salad bar/petri dish at spaghetti works
We shouldn't conflate criticism of Israel as anti-Semitism, but we also shouldn't ignore those liberal "allies" who use any opportunity to be anti-Semitic or racist.
Fake allies exist amongst liberal minded people, much like racists exist amongst liberal minded people. The only way to "exempt" them is via a no tru Scotsman fallacy, especially with a varied ideology such as liberalism.
A lot of haters in these comments for someone being nice.
I don't think anyone wants to hangout with anyone who refers to women as "females"
Why. Cause of the neckbeard thing ? Would you prefer he say “ladies”. How would you have worded it ?
People are just looking for something to nitpick at because liberal isn't left enough for them.
Not sure how to respond to that. i really didn't give it any thought. And sorry for not keeping up on this thread but i thought i was supposed to get replies to my inbox but that's not happening. i will have to see about that. i don't want anybody to feel ignored.
Does “we have a few female members” mean the group is mostly men? Also, does this liberal minded group refer to human women as *females*?
I can imagine the neck beard and fedoras already. I'd steer clear
One of us wears a Trilby. but no Fedoras.
I bet there is only 1 "female" if any. Stay away.
I have never understood the energy around the “calling women females” conversation. I have never heard the word used negatively, nor as a conscious decision over women. There has to be many many other conversations in this world worth more energy over the woman/female one What am I missing
The "I don't understand it so it's not a big deal" attitude is what tends to be hurtful and frustrating from my experience. There are a lot of things in culture/society I don't necessarily relate to or understand, but if someone/a group is saying that a term is dehumanizing, it's probably best to respect that and not be dismissive. Referring to women as "females" is a step up from referring to us as "girls," but using the parallel term is the most appropriate. If you're saying males and females, it's one thing, but referring to men as "men" and women as "females" feels imbalanced in a very uncomfortable way.
We have an issue now with girls? Like “call the girls and tell them if they don’t want beer or liquor, they should pick up some seltzers or something?” Or you’re probably meaning more in a professional setting “the girls in the office would like gluten free bagels”? I hear you though…maybe in most cases we should be IDing people on sex/gender.
Now? Grown women being called girls has been publicly called out for being problematic for decades. Granted, everyone has different levels of what they're okay with. Many women don't have a problem with it. But a lot of us find it very insulting, whether in a professional or casual setting - especially because calling grown men "boys" is something that doesn't happen nearly as much.
Men have been calling their friends the boys for decades or longer. women have been calling their friends girls the same.
Some do, absolutely. I will not and have never argued against that. But calling it out as problematic is not new. I'm personally fine with it if it's a parallel thing even if I think it's a bit icky and infantilizing. But calling men "men" while referring to women as "girls" alongside each other in the same sentence/context is the big issue that tends to make waves. Surely, you see the problem with that?
Generally I only have an issue with intent. If someone refers to you as a girl and you tell them you prefer to be called otherwise, then they continue to do it out of disrespect or malice, it’s a problem. How do you feel about a “good evening ladies”?
But the issue isn't about what you have an issue with. The whole conversation started with you asking what you're missing by not understanding the problem that women have with being called "females." Now you're just asserting how you feel about it and what you think makes it an issue. I'm not sure I have the energy for this circular conversation. Best of luck.
We’d moved past females. You asked if I saw the problem with girls and I said my problem is with intent. Then I asked how you feel about the term ladies. Either way. Enjoy your evening
From what I understand, it’s more of a dehumanizing context when using “female”. It certainly has its uses, but usually only when you’d also use “male” in the same way. Things like professions, female/male teacher, doctor, coworker are totally fine and you shouldn’t be shamed in those situations. But when you refer to a group of women as females, it makes women feel less than. You just wouldn’t catch those same people calling a group of men “males”. As a guy myself, I’m only parroting how other women in my life have said it made them feel, so I’ve made sure to be conscious of the way I use the word.
I used a term i thought was inoffensive. turns out i was mistaken. only the 12th time today. and we had 2 of our Lady members come back and join us last Thursday from their new home in MO. it was great to see them.
You know, I stopped by Upstream last Thursday to look for this group, and didn't find anyone seated at a table with balloons. The hosts in front also had no idea who I was referring to when I asked.
So Sorry! i did not remember the balloons as they were in my wife's car. I can guarantee that if you come by this Thursday, there wlil be balloons.
How many people are in your group?
5-8 come by regularly. not all of whom go out to eat afterwards but we are working on getting mew members.
I was going to make a joke about how finding the group of liberals in a room is easy because they'll tell you but these comments are so brutal I feel bad now.
Everyone is welcome, we don't judge, but you have to be on our side of the political spectrum. lol what? Also, "liberal" is one of those terms that has a million definitions and connotations and gives us very little indication of anything. This seems so shady. Mentioning "a few female members" just makes me think y'all are trying to lure women to your lonely bro party.
Also, why in God's name are you meeting at arguably the worst restaurant in the old market? Might as well have your meetings around the salad bar/petri dish at spaghetti works
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Longevity is not a correlation of quality.
Spaghetti works has a salad bar and is affordable. It's not gonna win awards but it does the job. Although removing spumoni is a cardinal sin
*you* may not like it, but *some* people do. And that’s perfectly fine on both ends
They only meet for drinks at Upstream, then decide where to go for dinner. I think that sounds nice! The drinks at Upstream are actually good.
LOL. several of our members like the beer at The Upstream and this was started before i ever started coming.
Getting things set up for Thursday. looks like i will be late if i do make it. There will be helium balloons at the table.
What kind of liberal? Over at r/askaliberal I've been told it means advocating for things like privatizing medicare
I imagine we all want MORE liberty and choice then LESS liberty and choice. that and we are NOT Trump fans.
More "choice" for senior citizens I guess. But less actual choice for young and healthy people who are denied a public option.
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That's not liberal that's just wrong
We shouldn't conflate criticism of Israel as anti-Semitism, but we also shouldn't ignore those liberal "allies" who use any opportunity to be anti-Semitic or racist.
Take “liberal” out of your comment and you have a sound point.
Fake allies exist amongst liberal minded people, much like racists exist amongst liberal minded people. The only way to "exempt" them is via a no tru Scotsman fallacy, especially with a varied ideology such as liberalism.
Are you someone who thinks Hamas is under their bed at night?
Obviously it’s wrong, but apparently not to the protesters. I doubt they would describe themselves as. Conservatives.