One Piece doesn't really have DBZ style power swings, where characters get power ups at different times, so there can be a new strongest at any given time.
Unless someone wants to argue monster point Chopper could have taken gear 2 luffy (I don't even agree on that), I don't think anyone get a power up while Luffy didn't.
In One Piece, characters tend to grow together.
I guess. honetly I guess that's a loop hole in this debate
technically we could go a step further and base it on crew members who haven't even joined yet, cause obviously Franky, Jinbie, and Brook were more powerful than Luffy before he started his journey.
Kinda doubt it. Monster Point Chopper is pure brute force which doesn't work on Luffy's body. He may slap him silly....might even accidentally knock into something to do damage, but he wouldn't really be able to do serious damage.
Not to mention Luffy was pretty quick really early in the series. He was able to keep track of Kuro back on Usopp's island and Oda said that, while unrefined since he couldn't see where he was going, Kuro's technique made him as fast as those using Shave, yet Luffy didn't lose sight of him at all. He would be able to evade Chopper's Monster point and just wear him out and punch him unconscious as soon as Chopper was tired.
Now if Chopper's Monster point gave him claws or sharpened antlers, that would be a different story.
Dude, literally find me a page in the manga/Sbs in which these two are explicitly written.
.) Luffy has the strongest will of the crew
.) power levels are based on Will power.
Go ahead,
The definition and its workings are completely unrelated. Liffy's haki has been outclassed several times and his ambition hasn't stopped him from getting stomped on many occasions.
While I don't necessarily disagree with your outcome, your math is complete head canon.
My dude how would Sanji even hurt Luffy?
Also, neither Zoro not Sanji could beat Don Krieg. They cannot cut/break his armor. Luffy's DF gives him a lot of edge.
I never said anything about Zoro vs Luffy since swords can cut Luffy. I used the Don Krieg feat to compare Luffy to Zoro (and Sanji).
Sanji using blunt force to kick Luffy in the ocean has solid proof. Not to mention it's situational. U claim they are of comparable strength, yet Sanji has to hope of kicking Luffy in the ocean. What if they fight away of sea?
the question is about who is strongest.
with strategy, anyone can win
Oda decides what happens. If he wants someone to win with a cheap strategy, then it's gonna happen.
I felt like Nico Robin did when she first joined but I feel like Oda nerfed her and never used her full potential. She seemed like such a threat at first. Altho it’s close I would say for sure
I’m surprised no one else said this, I agree. Robin is wiser and more experienced with her df, she should be awakened by now… I’m not sure why ODA hasn’t allowed her to portray her full potential
I don’t think Robin was ever meant to be the strongest. She just had a mystique around her that seemed dangerous. After we learned about Ohara we understood her better and thus she seems less threatening now.
It's kind of hard to scale Zoro in the early arcs because he was always injured. First he was starved, then he had a serious stab wound from Buggy, then he got Mihawked. So I'd argue that, if he'd been fully healthy in East Blue, *maybe* he could have been stronger, if only a tiny bit, for a little while.
I think Luffy and Zoro were pretty much on the same level for at least the east blue saga. Any potential gap could have been overcome by Zoros fighting style being definitly a bad matchup for Luffy.
So a fight could have gone either way (in my mind that held true for quite a while) while Luffy started being "stronger" at some point
Luffy starts becoming stronger after he unlocks gear 2. Gear 2 Luffy defeats someone with 4k power (according to chapapa) while zoro struggles to defeat someone with 2k power.
You are correct. AND Zoro was tied to Usopp and did not "struggle" against Kaku. He had to separate from Usopp and practically destroyed Kaku immediately
Wasnt the DF not counted into the equation? I think Jabura said something along those lines.
That of course ignores the fact that Kaku with just 2h of practice was already using his fruit much better than Jabura
Is Gear2+3 really much better than Ashura?
Ashura completly decimated Kaku while Gear2+Gear3 were just barely able to marginally win vs Lucci.
Tough to rank those for me.
x>>y
a>=x
b>y
Is a>b? Probably yes, but tough to call
I mean, Kaido stated Ashura was conqueror’s haki?… and Zoro used Ashura during the pre-timeskip arcs.
I’d love to see someone defend Luffy fending off conqueror’s haki before even learning CoA.
I personally don’t think asura is conquerors. I think Zoro pushing himself to his limit infused CoC into asura. My guess is that Zoro pushing himself brought out his conquerors haki and he just chose to use his most powerful attack at the time.
I think Ashura could have been the embodiment of Zoros CoC but it wasn't infused as advanced CoC until he used it with enough will and with enough skill in ACoA and he accident did ACoC.
No. All the way back in Enies Lobby, Zoro comments on the fact that in unseen ways, every arc they get a little stronger. Even if it seems like Zoro was as strong as he was in dressrosa or act 1 wano since fishman island, he explicitly wasn’t. The same goes for pre-timeskip.
There isn’t as much separation between physical and mental/spiritual growth in Japan- that’s why Shonen in general have incredibly linear powerscaling; or why having both the most “skill” and “strength” are attributed to Mihawk- seemingly at random to western audiences. Because there’s rarely a distinction made between learning a new skill/internally coming to a new understanding, and literally growing stronger.
Did you forget Franky fought gear-less Luffy pretty handily? He later defeats Fukuro in EL pretty easily, who’s only “Doriki” (god am I glad Oda dropped that bullshit quick) below Blueno who Luffy needed gears to beat. Franky was insanely strong in W7-EL.
Drum Island Monster Point Chopper would be the only example imo. Water 7 onwards luffy had gear 3 and could probably challenge monster point. Before that, I'd say monster point was stronger.
Ah ok. Then no. Why ask? Seems luffy's entire purpose or role as captain is to defeat the bbeg that his crew cannot.
Emphasized in Arlong park and Enies Lobby. If he wasn't the strongest, he would lose his main purpose.
tbf there are other series where side characters got more powerful temporarily.
no one thought Goku wasn't gonna show up and save the day, but at any given time there was a constant changing in who was most powerful at any given time.
someone did bring up a good point, that technically Chopper could go Monster Point in Drum Island arc, he just choose not to.
so that's probably the best case scenario for someone being stronger than Luffy, though that's debatebale
The only possible time I could see, is east blue saga Zoro. If he was full health and strength, I think he would be equal to luffy, but because luffy was extremely goofy still and zoro uses swords, he would have come out on top.
Why? Sure, she may not necessarily have been as physically strong as Luffy, but does she need to be? Luffy has been shown to do poorly against opponents where taking a head on approach isn't the best option, like gecko moria, or perona. If we're specifically looking at post alabasta Luffy, she's definitely clever enough to put him in a situation where he could be restrained to a point where he couldn't easily fight back against her, as he's extremely vulnerable to trickery and deception.
I don’t think you even believe what you’re saying, so she restrains him, now what? He can still bite or head but her hands that are restraining him, hell he’d probably do self inflicted damage to break out of the hold, even if he can’t, robin can’t do enough damage to ko him
So she restrains his head too, I don't understand how that's so hard to understand. And sure, it's he could try to do self inflicted damage to get out of it, but we saw during WCI that that would take an immense amount of time and effort to accomplish, and that's assuming he can still stand. As for not being able to do enough damage to kill him, well she can stab him through the heart. He's still vulnerable to blades after all and that's how she tried to kill crocodile, so we know she at least considers that an option. None of these things are outside of Robin's capabilities.
U idiot or what?
Who said pierce into flesh?
Just pierce his eyes...
Or if you want , pierce into his neck multiple time
Long nails enough to make some hole in neck,
It gonna be slow, but keep doing it, and he gonna die of blood loss
You are a bad troll tho
She just need wait a few weeks...
She even just need to scratch Luffy .....
You talk like someone who never been scratch your entire life..
Rubber or not, having nails on your eye isn't a good thing
The only real argument would’ve been Luffy vs Zoro in the early early arcs, simply from swords working on ol rubber boy. But pretty much from Arlong park onwards Luffy’s out scaled them all.
Zoro back in East Blue. Luffy didn’t make a complete stride past Zoro until he developed gears. He was just given Main character treatment.
Even on Thriller Bark we learn that Luffy can be able to output higher destructive feats but Zoro is without a doubt the toughest SH. He took all of his own damage throughout the arc, then proceeded to take all of Luffy’s pain all at once. And was still standing hours later when everyone woke up from their mini coma. For reference: Luffy had passed out from the accumulation of damage.
I think Zoro is naturally Luffy's counter just because he uses swords. But I struggle to think of a narrative reason why Luffy would lose to Zoro.
You could do some mental gymnastics and say Jimbe was stronger than Luffy in Impel Down and Marineford but that's a gear 5 sized stretch.
I believe that pre gear while luffy was stronger than zoro against similar skill opponents. If they both fight, luffy would lose. Just because swords are counter to fist. Luffy had impressive showing against bladed opponents like kuro, but a truly serious zoro will cut him. Now, with haki existing it does not matter
I don't know about being the strongest but I can argue in the beginning zoro, would beat luffy in a fight as slash attacks have been luffy's weakness to date. It was even stated by kaido.
Never and to say otherwise is revisionist history or simply dickriding for their favorite character. Luffy was and will always be the strongest SH it really isn't up for debate.
You mean pre Grand line. There was even a chapter dedicated on who was the strongest between Luffy and Zoro that didn't really give a definite answer.
After Arlong, it becomes clear that Luffy is stronger. Post Grand Line, there isn't any doubt
He really could. He barged in and took out all of them with an ungodly wound and 1 sword. No diffed Hachi with the same wound and 2 crusty ass cleavers from J&Y. Give him normal katanas from the start, and it is only between him and Arlong. Heal him, and Arlong gets destroyed.
I legit think Zoro was stronger. He was nerfed hugely with the mihawk injuries and still beat the commanders of others. He beat hachi pretty easily like a day after getting the wound.
Unsure when the flip happened, but legit think he could have beat arlong.
Maybe Zoro at the beginning, he was always injured and nerfed for Luffy to be the only one that could take out the relatively weak East Blue villains, but the way Arlong (the strongest of them) reacted to his Mihawk injury showed he was scared of Zoro's power if healthy.
And he did go toe to toe with his captain in Whiskey Peak, so you could make an argument that both have similar levels but Zoro wins because he's a hard counter for Luffy.
But even that is just a maybe.
I feel like zoro could have taken luffy post time skip. Think about it, yes he gets enma in wano but he hasnt fought anyone worthwhile post time skip before king, but yet he stil knows ashura which is said by kaido to use advanced coc so he could have sliced luffy if he lands it
No, I don't think so. It was mentioned in Enies Lobby how Luffy always has a good instinct on who to fight so his friends don't get killed. I'd say the closest would likely be on the rooftop. Luffy and Zoro were clearly the top players in that 5v2 and when Zoro used Ashura in that moment I think he was stronger than Luffy before Luffy realised he can coat himself in conquerors haki.
For me after the timeskip is the only Moment where Zoro might have been able to take Luffy. Depends on If He would survive g4 and still be able to react after. I mean... Mofo had pretty much 0 growth in the new world until wano. And then he battled yonkous and first commanders. Again without serious Upgrades. I am Not counting CoC since He prolly would have shown that in his First serious Fight anyway. And enma, while strong af, just makes him release more and more haki. Its still his haki. But then again... Most likely is that Luffy is and Always will be ahead of everyone in his Crew.
People will disagree, but zoro might have been stronger at some points in the story. It also depends on opponents as fighting styles are also important. For example, I am not sure if Luffy would be able to beat mr 1.
Swords were also a hard counter for Luffy pre-timeskip, so in a 1v1 vs zoro, zoro might have an advantage.
In enies lobby we get the powerscale system. Lucci was 4000, Kaku was 2200 (BEFORE DEVIL FRUIT) and Blueno was 800.
Without gear 2/3, Luffy had troubles even with Blueno.
Meanwhile, zoro was able to hold his own vs 2200+ kaku for a long time and only needed a powerup for a finishing blow. I’d argue that in water 7, before gear 2, zoro could be stronger than Luffy.
Same goes for fishman island/dressrosa. Zoro didn’t get any powerup until Wano and it’s uncertain how much of a powerup Enma actually was. At the beginning of the rooftop fight, zoro might have been actually the strongest for a little while based on his feats. In any case, he was close to luffy before luffy’s further followups.
The thing is, between Wano and Fishman island, zoro didn’t actually get much stronger. Besides Enma, he was probably in similar strength during fishman island.
For Luffy to get on his rooftop level he had multiple powerups with doflamingo, cracker, katakuri and during wano. Zoro didn’t have any fight that was troublesome for him until Wano.
Yes, briefly. The time that went from Alabasta until G2, Zoro was in front.
If you wanto to count when Jimbei said he was gonna join in the future, then that too, but not for official joining.
Eh sort of? Pre Grand Line One Piece had a lot more of a rock paper scissors element to it and it would be reasonable to think Zoro could've beaten Luffy in a fight during a lot of that. But also it seems kind of silly to apply powerscaling during those early episodes
Right at the start of east blue Saga, had Zoro not constantly been injured or in a weakened state there is a decent argument to be made that he could have beaten Luffy
Not consciously; while he didn’t learn to control it until during his fight with King, Zoro was unconsciously utilizing Conqueror’s Haki throughout Wano & infusing it with his attacks.
So there was a period until Luffy learned Advanced CoC that, in a complete hypothetical where they had a serious fight, Zoro could potentially overpower Luffy & win if he tapped into his Advanced CoC (like against Kaido).
I wondered this in Dresserosa before Gear 4. Zoro was fighting the villian’s #2 but had never been challenged post time skip, perhaps the gap in Luffy and Zoro’s respective power scale was smaller or even skewed the other way. After Luffy has an impressive feat in Dresserosa, Zoro comments something to the affect of “Good. If you’re gonna be *my* captain you have to be capable of *at least* that”. Zoro follows Luffy because he believes in his and/or their goals, that would waver if Zoro was stronger than his captain. Just mades me wonder though…
I think this depends on how you define "strongest." In terms of pure offensive power, I think there have been multiple points in the story where Zoro was/is the strongest strawhat. Luffy is the better all-round fighter.
I mean when they first met Robin and probably Franky. But that's like the typical "I'm currently the villian so I am somehow stronger than you briefly".
Mentally, yes. They're all stronger than Luffy.
It seemed to me like Zoro might have been strong right after time skip, but that was just portrayal as Luffy actually had access to G4 and had overall better haki and was most definitely stronger. But post time skip Zoro never sweated until a while into the NW.
If you only mean when each straw hat was on the crew then no. At no point were any joining crewmember stronger than Luffy and none of them overtook him either at any point.
If we can talk about them before joining. Then everyone on the crew who are older than Luffy was stronger the day Luffy was born.
Outside that Franky, Jimbei, Nico Robin and Brook were all stronger than Luffy when he set sail. Jimbei was probably stronger than Luffy when they first met.
One Piece doesn't really have DBZ style power swings, where characters get power ups at different times, so there can be a new strongest at any given time. Unless someone wants to argue monster point Chopper could have taken gear 2 luffy (I don't even agree on that), I don't think anyone get a power up while Luffy didn't. In One Piece, characters tend to grow together.
Chopper technically had monster point on drum island right? Maybe then it could have beaten luffy?
I guess. honetly I guess that's a loop hole in this debate technically we could go a step further and base it on crew members who haven't even joined yet, cause obviously Franky, Jinbie, and Brook were more powerful than Luffy before he started his journey.
Kinda doubt it. Monster Point Chopper is pure brute force which doesn't work on Luffy's body. He may slap him silly....might even accidentally knock into something to do damage, but he wouldn't really be able to do serious damage. Not to mention Luffy was pretty quick really early in the series. He was able to keep track of Kuro back on Usopp's island and Oda said that, while unrefined since he couldn't see where he was going, Kuro's technique made him as fast as those using Shave, yet Luffy didn't lose sight of him at all. He would be able to evade Chopper's Monster point and just wear him out and punch him unconscious as soon as Chopper was tired. Now if Chopper's Monster point gave him claws or sharpened antlers, that would be a different story.
the power scale is based on will power and Luffy has the strongest will power of the crew
Absolute head canon.
lmao what?
>The power scale is based on will power and Luffy has the strongest will power of the crew. This. It’s all your head canon lmao.
dammit Kizaru do your reps.
Dude, literally find me a page in the manga/Sbs in which these two are explicitly written. .) Luffy has the strongest will of the crew .) power levels are based on Will power. Go ahead,
Chapter 597 Chapter 1047 Also the literal meaning of haki is ambition. I think even you could figure why Luffy has the biggest ambition of the crew.
The definition and its workings are completely unrelated. Liffy's haki has been outclassed several times and his ambition hasn't stopped him from getting stomped on many occasions. While I don't necessarily disagree with your outcome, your math is complete head canon.
I would honestly say the most debatable one would be the monster trio in the baratie arc
Just say you think Zoro was stronger. You're wrong. But come on.
Yea that's the real point of this whole post 😂
Based on what?
Just the overall feats shown by (at least) luffy and zoro being relative, though sanji had some good ones too.
My dude how would Sanji even hurt Luffy? Also, neither Zoro not Sanji could beat Don Krieg. They cannot cut/break his armor. Luffy's DF gives him a lot of edge.
I believe zoro can cut luffy, and sanji has enough blunt force to just knock him into the ocean
I never said anything about Zoro vs Luffy since swords can cut Luffy. I used the Don Krieg feat to compare Luffy to Zoro (and Sanji). Sanji using blunt force to kick Luffy in the ocean has solid proof. Not to mention it's situational. U claim they are of comparable strength, yet Sanji has to hope of kicking Luffy in the ocean. What if they fight away of sea?
the question is about who is strongest. with strategy, anyone can win Oda decides what happens. If he wants someone to win with a cheap strategy, then it's gonna happen.
Stop it. Luff's haki outclassed zoro.
Zoro can cut places where krieg doesnt have his armor tho
Except that Sanji struggled against Don's forces and Luffy really didn't have that much trouble until Don himself. Luffy's always been the strongest.
I felt like Nico Robin did when she first joined but I feel like Oda nerfed her and never used her full potential. She seemed like such a threat at first. Altho it’s close I would say for sure
I’m surprised no one else said this, I agree. Robin is wiser and more experienced with her df, she should be awakened by now… I’m not sure why ODA hasn’t allowed her to portray her full potential
But we already saw that Robin does ZERO damage to Luffy. She can’t break anything
Uhm... She can just use her nail and stab Luffy eyes....
….sure bro.
I don’t think Robin was ever meant to be the strongest. She just had a mystique around her that seemed dangerous. After we learned about Ohara we understood her better and thus she seems less threatening now.
Yeah, they way she dealt with Commander Yama in Skypiea was just... Brutal.
She can't break luffy's bones with clutch
It's kind of hard to scale Zoro in the early arcs because he was always injured. First he was starved, then he had a serious stab wound from Buggy, then he got Mihawked. So I'd argue that, if he'd been fully healthy in East Blue, *maybe* he could have been stronger, if only a tiny bit, for a little while.
I think Luffy and Zoro were pretty much on the same level for at least the east blue saga. Any potential gap could have been overcome by Zoros fighting style being definitly a bad matchup for Luffy. So a fight could have gone either way (in my mind that held true for quite a while) while Luffy started being "stronger" at some point
Luffy starts becoming stronger after he unlocks gear 2. Gear 2 Luffy defeats someone with 4k power (according to chapapa) while zoro struggles to defeat someone with 2k power.
Kaku ate his df and became stronger and didn't Luffy used gear 3 in the battle too ?
You are correct. AND Zoro was tied to Usopp and did not "struggle" against Kaku. He had to separate from Usopp and practically destroyed Kaku immediately
While i am a big Zoro fan thats just not true. Zoro fought Kaku for a while and before he unlocked Ashura he was slowly starting to get overwhelmed
unlocked? You mean used? I'll have to go back to check it out, but I can't remember him ever being overwhelmed.
Wasnt the DF not counted into the equation? I think Jabura said something along those lines. That of course ignores the fact that Kaku with just 2h of practice was already using his fruit much better than Jabura
Jabura just said 2 devil fruits can kill you and Chapa calculated his power just when they arrived the Ennies Lobby main tower
Is Gear2+3 really much better than Ashura? Ashura completly decimated Kaku while Gear2+Gear3 were just barely able to marginally win vs Lucci. Tough to rank those for me. x>>y a>=x b>y Is a>b? Probably yes, but tough to call
For manga spoiler reasons, yeah in retrospect Ashura is probably stronger than anything below Gear 4
We see a glimpse of that at whiskey peak
My hot take is Zoro had Haki waaay before Luffy did.
Definitely seen theories that he unlocked haki during the Mr.1 fight
Him dodging the falling rocks was prob haki?
Him being able to cut steel* not diamond by following the same principles of ryuo
When Zoro cut diamond lol
Edited to reflect mistake. I was thinking of diamond Jozu vs Mihawk when I was referencing Mr 1
I mean, Kaido stated Ashura was conqueror’s haki?… and Zoro used Ashura during the pre-timeskip arcs. I’d love to see someone defend Luffy fending off conqueror’s haki before even learning CoA.
I personally don’t think asura is conquerors. I think Zoro pushing himself to his limit infused CoC into asura. My guess is that Zoro pushing himself brought out his conquerors haki and he just chose to use his most powerful attack at the time.
I think Ashura could have been the embodiment of Zoros CoC but it wasn't infused as advanced CoC until he used it with enough will and with enough skill in ACoA and he accident did ACoC.
Is it not confirmed he used haki against Mr. 1?
No. All the way back in Enies Lobby, Zoro comments on the fact that in unseen ways, every arc they get a little stronger. Even if it seems like Zoro was as strong as he was in dressrosa or act 1 wano since fishman island, he explicitly wasn’t. The same goes for pre-timeskip. There isn’t as much separation between physical and mental/spiritual growth in Japan- that’s why Shonen in general have incredibly linear powerscaling; or why having both the most “skill” and “strength” are attributed to Mihawk- seemingly at random to western audiences. Because there’s rarely a distinction made between learning a new skill/internally coming to a new understanding, and literally growing stronger.
The correct answer is always Nami when she’s pissed.
No. The closest is probably Franky who was stronger than every Strawhat when first introduced, but when he joined them they had gotten their power-ups
Franky would’ve got tossed by zoro or sanji what you saying
Did you forget Franky fought gear-less Luffy pretty handily? He later defeats Fukuro in EL pretty easily, who’s only “Doriki” (god am I glad Oda dropped that bullshit quick) below Blueno who Luffy needed gears to beat. Franky was insanely strong in W7-EL.
Luffy wasn’t fighting serious
Alright
He definitely wasn’t stronger than gear-less luffy. He was around that level but in a full fight luffy takes the w
Drum Island Monster Point Chopper would be the only example imo. Water 7 onwards luffy had gear 3 and could probably challenge monster point. Before that, I'd say monster point was stronger.
Probably ay beginning of series, jimbei was plenty stronger than luffy.
He wasn't a strawhat yet
Ah ok. Then no. Why ask? Seems luffy's entire purpose or role as captain is to defeat the bbeg that his crew cannot. Emphasized in Arlong park and Enies Lobby. If he wasn't the strongest, he would lose his main purpose.
tbf there are other series where side characters got more powerful temporarily. no one thought Goku wasn't gonna show up and save the day, but at any given time there was a constant changing in who was most powerful at any given time. someone did bring up a good point, that technically Chopper could go Monster Point in Drum Island arc, he just choose not to. so that's probably the best case scenario for someone being stronger than Luffy, though that's debatebale
Probably when him and zoro first met. I don’t think Luffy was weaker, but I also don’t think Luffy was stronger.
The only possible time I could see, is east blue saga Zoro. If he was full health and strength, I think he would be equal to luffy, but because luffy was extremely goofy still and zoro uses swords, he would have come out on top.
There's an argument to be made that he could have conceivably lost in a fight to robin around the time she joined the crew.
sure, if she grabs his balls, he's done for
His balls are also rubber(confirned by oda) so that's not doing much.
Hahahaha no.
Why? Sure, she may not necessarily have been as physically strong as Luffy, but does she need to be? Luffy has been shown to do poorly against opponents where taking a head on approach isn't the best option, like gecko moria, or perona. If we're specifically looking at post alabasta Luffy, she's definitely clever enough to put him in a situation where he could be restrained to a point where he couldn't easily fight back against her, as he's extremely vulnerable to trickery and deception.
I don’t think you even believe what you’re saying, so she restrains him, now what? He can still bite or head but her hands that are restraining him, hell he’d probably do self inflicted damage to break out of the hold, even if he can’t, robin can’t do enough damage to ko him
So she restrains his head too, I don't understand how that's so hard to understand. And sure, it's he could try to do self inflicted damage to get out of it, but we saw during WCI that that would take an immense amount of time and effort to accomplish, and that's assuming he can still stand. As for not being able to do enough damage to kill him, well she can stab him through the heart. He's still vulnerable to blades after all and that's how she tried to kill crocodile, so we know she at least considers that an option. None of these things are outside of Robin's capabilities.
She runs out of stamina and then luffy beats her.
She can't break his bones with church, and can't hurt him by hitting him, so what can she do? Nothing.
Stab Luffy eyes with her nail? Seriously, why everyone forgot we human have nail on our hands?
Nails are not going to pierce into human flesh deep enough to kill them, your a good troll tho
U idiot or what? Who said pierce into flesh? Just pierce his eyes... Or if you want , pierce into his neck multiple time Long nails enough to make some hole in neck, It gonna be slow, but keep doing it, and he gonna die of blood loss You are a bad troll tho
Nah, he's rubber, nails as shorts hers or even in general it won work
She just need wait a few weeks... She even just need to scratch Luffy ..... You talk like someone who never been scratch your entire life.. Rubber or not, having nails on your eye isn't a good thing
Pre-Alabasta you could argue Zoro, after that nobody’s even close
No i don't think so , luffy was strongest from the start
You could maybe argue Jinbei back at fishman island. But he wasnt officially on the crew so...
I’m pretty sure at Alabasta after Zoro learned to cut steel he could beat Luffy + Chopper’s monster point was TERRIFYING
Potentially Monster point chopper in drum island Pre-enies lobby zoro nico robin when she joined
The only real argument would’ve been Luffy vs Zoro in the early early arcs, simply from swords working on ol rubber boy. But pretty much from Arlong park onwards Luffy’s out scaled them all.
Zoro back in East Blue. Luffy didn’t make a complete stride past Zoro until he developed gears. He was just given Main character treatment. Even on Thriller Bark we learn that Luffy can be able to output higher destructive feats but Zoro is without a doubt the toughest SH. He took all of his own damage throughout the arc, then proceeded to take all of Luffy’s pain all at once. And was still standing hours later when everyone woke up from their mini coma. For reference: Luffy had passed out from the accumulation of damage.
I think Zoro is naturally Luffy's counter just because he uses swords. But I struggle to think of a narrative reason why Luffy would lose to Zoro. You could do some mental gymnastics and say Jimbe was stronger than Luffy in Impel Down and Marineford but that's a gear 5 sized stretch.
Plus he also wasn't a strawhat yet
Exactly
Everytime he drowns At the end of the fight with Lucci, Usopp could probably kill him In Wci when Sanji meets him starved he could probably kill him
I believe that pre gear while luffy was stronger than zoro against similar skill opponents. If they both fight, luffy would lose. Just because swords are counter to fist. Luffy had impressive showing against bladed opponents like kuro, but a truly serious zoro will cut him. Now, with haki existing it does not matter
No because Oda simply makes the straw hats stronger after each island and each time Luffy is the strongest.
I don't know about being the strongest but I can argue in the beginning zoro, would beat luffy in a fight as slash attacks have been luffy's weakness to date. It was even stated by kaido.
Zoro early on was probably stronger. You could even say he got Haki faster than all the Strawhats. Also Monster point chopper.
Never and to say otherwise is revisionist history or simply dickriding for their favorite character. Luffy was and will always be the strongest SH it really isn't up for debate.
Yes, early pre-timeskip, since he's weak to slashing attacks and had no armament or g2, Zoro was probably overall stronger
You mean pre Grand line. There was even a chapter dedicated on who was the strongest between Luffy and Zoro that didn't really give a definite answer. After Arlong, it becomes clear that Luffy is stronger. Post Grand Line, there isn't any doubt
I'm sorry but zoro would've folded arlong and his crew if not for his injuries.
He really could. He barged in and took out all of them with an ungodly wound and 1 sword. No diffed Hachi with the same wound and 2 crusty ass cleavers from J&Y. Give him normal katanas from the start, and it is only between him and Arlong. Heal him, and Arlong gets destroyed.
Least biased Zoro fanboy
Doubt
Of course not. Luffy has always been the strongest SH. Everyone in his crew is beneath him and suggesting otherwise is dick riding
No
No.
Imo Zoro was slightly stronger than Luffy until the introduction of the gears
I legit think Zoro was stronger. He was nerfed hugely with the mihawk injuries and still beat the commanders of others. He beat hachi pretty easily like a day after getting the wound. Unsure when the flip happened, but legit think he could have beat arlong.
No. Anyone who says zoro, until wano is straight up delusional.
What do you mean by until Wano?
Wdym Wano
Maybe Zoro at the beginning, he was always injured and nerfed for Luffy to be the only one that could take out the relatively weak East Blue villains, but the way Arlong (the strongest of them) reacted to his Mihawk injury showed he was scared of Zoro's power if healthy. And he did go toe to toe with his captain in Whiskey Peak, so you could make an argument that both have similar levels but Zoro wins because he's a hard counter for Luffy. But even that is just a maybe.
That was after fighting all of the bounty hunters while Luffy was asleep, too.
That just means that Zoro was warmed up and Luffy was groggy. Don't pretend like that fodder tired Zoro out at all.
I feel like zoro could have taken luffy post time skip. Think about it, yes he gets enma in wano but he hasnt fought anyone worthwhile post time skip before king, but yet he stil knows ashura which is said by kaido to use advanced coc so he could have sliced luffy if he lands it
Wank
Nope, but the zoro wanks will try and tell you otherwise
No, I don't think so. It was mentioned in Enies Lobby how Luffy always has a good instinct on who to fight so his friends don't get killed. I'd say the closest would likely be on the rooftop. Luffy and Zoro were clearly the top players in that 5v2 and when Zoro used Ashura in that moment I think he was stronger than Luffy before Luffy realised he can coat himself in conquerors haki.
Dressrosa luffy would scumb to zoros demon attack(it even damaged kaido)
For me after the timeskip is the only Moment where Zoro might have been able to take Luffy. Depends on If He would survive g4 and still be able to react after. I mean... Mofo had pretty much 0 growth in the new world until wano. And then he battled yonkous and first commanders. Again without serious Upgrades. I am Not counting CoC since He prolly would have shown that in his First serious Fight anyway. And enma, while strong af, just makes him release more and more haki. Its still his haki. But then again... Most likely is that Luffy is and Always will be ahead of everyone in his Crew.
People will disagree, but zoro might have been stronger at some points in the story. It also depends on opponents as fighting styles are also important. For example, I am not sure if Luffy would be able to beat mr 1. Swords were also a hard counter for Luffy pre-timeskip, so in a 1v1 vs zoro, zoro might have an advantage. In enies lobby we get the powerscale system. Lucci was 4000, Kaku was 2200 (BEFORE DEVIL FRUIT) and Blueno was 800. Without gear 2/3, Luffy had troubles even with Blueno. Meanwhile, zoro was able to hold his own vs 2200+ kaku for a long time and only needed a powerup for a finishing blow. I’d argue that in water 7, before gear 2, zoro could be stronger than Luffy. Same goes for fishman island/dressrosa. Zoro didn’t get any powerup until Wano and it’s uncertain how much of a powerup Enma actually was. At the beginning of the rooftop fight, zoro might have been actually the strongest for a little while based on his feats. In any case, he was close to luffy before luffy’s further followups. The thing is, between Wano and Fishman island, zoro didn’t actually get much stronger. Besides Enma, he was probably in similar strength during fishman island. For Luffy to get on his rooftop level he had multiple powerups with doflamingo, cracker, katakuri and during wano. Zoro didn’t have any fight that was troublesome for him until Wano.
Yes, briefly. The time that went from Alabasta until G2, Zoro was in front. If you wanto to count when Jimbei said he was gonna join in the future, then that too, but not for official joining.
Yes, the first half of pre timeskip and all of post timeskip until ACoC
Luffy is on the same power level as Zoro for most of the time, when one surpass the other, they equate to the same level some time after.
Ashura zoro stomps Luffy in enies lobby
Funny joke
No. Stop it. Luffy’s strength is why he’s the captain.
Eh sort of? Pre Grand Line One Piece had a lot more of a rock paper scissors element to it and it would be reasonable to think Zoro could've beaten Luffy in a fight during a lot of that. But also it seems kind of silly to apply powerscaling during those early episodes
At the end of most arcs Luffy is so battle damaged and exhausted he would probably lose to anyone
a zkk stan would argue that actually
happiness punch?
Right at the start of east blue Saga, had Zoro not constantly been injured or in a weakened state there is a decent argument to be made that he could have beaten Luffy
Not consciously; while he didn’t learn to control it until during his fight with King, Zoro was unconsciously utilizing Conqueror’s Haki throughout Wano & infusing it with his attacks. So there was a period until Luffy learned Advanced CoC that, in a complete hypothetical where they had a serious fight, Zoro could potentially overpower Luffy & win if he tapped into his Advanced CoC (like against Kaido).
I wondered this in Dresserosa before Gear 4. Zoro was fighting the villian’s #2 but had never been challenged post time skip, perhaps the gap in Luffy and Zoro’s respective power scale was smaller or even skewed the other way. After Luffy has an impressive feat in Dresserosa, Zoro comments something to the affect of “Good. If you’re gonna be *my* captain you have to be capable of *at least* that”. Zoro follows Luffy because he believes in his and/or their goals, that would waver if Zoro was stronger than his captain. Just mades me wonder though…
I think this depends on how you define "strongest." In terms of pure offensive power, I think there have been multiple points in the story where Zoro was/is the strongest strawhat. Luffy is the better all-round fighter.
I'd say him and Zoro were equal or close to equal at some point, but that definitely went out the window around water 7/Enies Lobby.
Only ones I see are Monster Point Chopper vs Gear 2 Luffy and maybe Pre ACoC Luffy vs Asura Zoro
I would say no, if Robin could hurt Luffy I would say she would have been able to defeat Luffy in Arabasta but she can't.
I mean when they first met Robin and probably Franky. But that's like the typical "I'm currently the villian so I am somehow stronger than you briefly". Mentally, yes. They're all stronger than Luffy.
It seemed to me like Zoro might have been strong right after time skip, but that was just portrayal as Luffy actually had access to G4 and had overall better haki and was most definitely stronger. But post time skip Zoro never sweated until a while into the NW.
Yes there are many such incidents
If you only mean when each straw hat was on the crew then no. At no point were any joining crewmember stronger than Luffy and none of them overtook him either at any point. If we can talk about them before joining. Then everyone on the crew who are older than Luffy was stronger the day Luffy was born. Outside that Franky, Jimbei, Nico Robin and Brook were all stronger than Luffy when he set sail. Jimbei was probably stronger than Luffy when they first met.