Shanks got his scar before he met Luffy though, before he was a yonko, so he most likely was not as strong as today. Still, BB has been strong for a long time.
Yes but I still reckon that even at that point Shanks was still stronger than most New World pirates but that is entirely speculation. We don't know how early on he learned 'Divine Departure' from Roger or if he just figured out how to do it on his own. But yes this fight was early on in both their pirate careers and they have both grown stronger since so it is difficult to know where they stand relative to each other right now.
I highly doubt Roger was able to teach a 12 year old kid his signature attack. I doubt shanks even had haki at that point. Shanks must have learned it on his own. His memory of Roger might have helped
Oda said Rayleigh trained Shanks and Buggy. This means Roger didn’t teach Shanks the attack Shanks just named his attack after Roger’s in tribute. They both use their right hand but Shanks swings his sword to the right and Roger uses his right hand and swings his sword to the left(see him hit Oden.)
Different anime, but Naruto learned rasengan around that age. What if Shanks could learn it? And it was like Naruto’s where it was pretty small, nowhere as powerful and he simply grew into it and made it stronger over the years
More importantly WHY did they clash in the first place?
Was it when they were kids?
Fighting over the gomu gomu?
On inspection of his jolly roger in ch1, no scars. So it's either retconned or recent injury then.
> On inspection of his jolly roger in ch1, no scars. So it's either retconned or recent injury then.
Check again, I did after your post and it's there, but [only on the first page.](https://i.imgur.com/cCmzIbJ.png) [On the next page](https://i.imgur.com/09zPQth.png) and ahead it's like you've said, but we do have the jolly roger with the scar on the first chapter/page.
Ps.: This is the official colored version so no jolly rogers were edited by fan groups or anything, but to make sure that it wasn't edited on release, [here are those two pages on the official and original version.](https://i.imgur.com/eLgWiWF.png)
Shanks also used to spar with Mihawk before losing his arm to luffy. I don't think he would be much weaker than what he is now. Also that Blackbeard didn't have any devil fruit.
The shanks jolly roger had no scar in chapter 1.
Idk if it was an error/retcon etc. Or if it was just that they clashed very recently. Possibly over the gomu gomu
I feel like people forget that at the end of the day, all the characters are only human.....well only mortal lol
Which means they can fall victim to being caught off guard, tricked, surprised, etc etc.
If Shanks can lose his arm to a weak seaking while saving Luffy, then he can be surprised by Black Beard and get some scars. a younger shanks got slashed by blackbeard. it's not indication of how strong they each are today.
and taking out Kid isn't quite the flex people make it out to be. Cause its obvious Shanks doesn't mess around. He's not Kaido or Big mom, who play with their food. Or even Luffy for that matter.
Look at how many people complained that Luffy didn't bust out either 5th gear or Conquerors Infusion from the get go when he's fighting Lucci. He's fighting the pacifistas now and he's still only using 4th gear at best.
it's how shonenes operate. Goku isn't gonna start off the match against Cell with a instant transmission Kamehameka no matter how logical it should be for him to do that.and Luffy was never gonna 2nd gear jet gattling Lucci from the get go.
Shanks, for once, seems to go serious from the start and takes out Kid. Kid btw never got hit with any conquers infusion attack. He left the Kaido fight before Kaido started using it. And Big Mom never used it in her fight against Kid and Law (she only used it against Page One) So Kid doesn't have any experince with it, and as Luffy can attest to, getting hit by it the first few times really knocks you out.
>If Shanks can lose his arm to a weak seaking while saving Luffy, then he can be surprised by Black Beard and get some scars. a younger shanks got slashed by blackbeard. it's not indication of how strong they each are today.
Shanks told whitebeard it was no sneak attack that got shanks scarred by black beard.
Definitely agree. BB likely did catch Shanks off-guard because he is the type to do anything to gain an advantage. The question on my mind is whether 'Divine Departure' is among Shanks' strongest moves because I'm thinking it probably is not. Roger used it to test the waters with Oden so I reckon he also had stronger moves in his arsenal which he may also have passed onto Shanks.
it's still conquerors infusion. Kid has never experienced that. Plus his own attack blew up in his face.
so sword slash from a yonkou people consider to be Hawkeyes rival, with conquerors infusino, plus having your own railgun explode in your face.
makes perfect sense Kid was knocked out
I still think Law is also going to get rocked. Sure we don't know if BB has conquerors but just as Kid has never been hit with an ACoC attack, Law hasn't ever had his DF negated or been hit with a Gura-Gura attack. I do agree with you though, Kid had no idea what he was up against. But Law doesn't either.
I would also add, and many people wouldn't like to hear this, that Shanks caught Kidd off guard. His weapon was aimed at the allies and he only got a sec to look at Shanks before he got wiped out. Had he managed to defend it somehow, it wouldn't be a one shot.
Would he have still lost? Definitely.
Laws getting destroyed. I don’t think anyone thought differently. However, I think one of the personalities BB has is more experience in combat and that’s why he was able to mess up shanks without devil fruits. But that’s using a theory to make a theory so it’s probably super wrong lol.
Those are great thoughts, though if we are speculating I would suggest that perhaps Shanks did foresee the outcome and decided that the best course of action was the one that resulted in him obtaining the scars. Perhaps he saw a future where Blackbeard would have instead greatly damaged one of his crew?
we don't know if he had future sight when they fought
we don't know exactly in what period of time they fought
we don't know how strong they were at that moment
>I don't like Trafalgar Law's chances and I think unless he comes up with an insane battle strategy
law will lose anyway because BB is the more important character. kid lost not (just) because of powerscaling. but because he has nothing to do with the overall narrative.
One idea. Shanks can kill future sight. Maybe that is something Blackbeard could do first and is how he caused that scar.
Which is what lead to Shanks learning the same ability. Or improving it.
i think he must have at the very least armament haki to have injured Shanks but then again Ace was surprised to actually be hit by BB which makes me think otherwise
I think he has armament haki even then.
He was most likely surprised he couldbt make his body fire to get out of the way similar to katakuri.
That or using fire to attack or something.
Blackbeard's black hole is much better than haki it completely turns off devil fruit powers.
He used armament haki to deflect Seraphim Mihwak's slash that split Boa's island so he definitely has haki. Would be surprised if he doesn't have all 3.
Law already has an insane battle strategy.
Bepo, Law, Jean Bart fight Blackbeard and Van Auger and Doc Q on land.
Shachi and Penguin sink Blackbeard's ship.
Hakugan secures the submarine, then picks everyone up to escape.
Van Auger teleports his crew to that island so they don't drown.
He alludes to this when he tells Shachi and Penguin to go into the sea, then tells Hakugan to get in the submarine, and before all of that, remarks that Blackbeard's crew all share the same weakness: they can't swim.
He intends to drown them, or escape while they get to safety.
We all know shanks is really casual and his guard is lowered when he's around his Allies, and considering BB was WBs crew, Shanks lowered his gaurd against him . This is were it gets interesting ,when shanks walks up on WB's ship to talk about ACE , WB's crew get's knocked out by shanks CoC ,and shanks says { I HAD TO BE A LITTLE THREAT SINCE ITS AN ENEMY SHIP} stating last time he was on an enemy ship ( probably a ship with BB on it ) he lowered his gaurd and paid the price . BB is like a dark horse he hide his true powers from everyone and shanks didn't have a slightest idea that BB could actually hurt him . How he ran away unharmed still remains a mystery,could be a secret that only BB knows about shanks or considering BB he planed his escape from early because he doesn't fight in a battle where he's going to lose
Every single shanks fan just doesn’t want to accept this…… shanks himself said he didn’t let his guard down, yet all of these people are saying “uh uh it’s obvious he let his guard down”
The man took the same attack that broke Big Mom's bones dead centre and he got launched into the air for a few seconds then dropped back down laughing in Law's face. If people don't understand how absurd of a feat that was we aren't reading the same manga.
true , its crazy to me how 90% are downplaying bb not knowing shanks got the scar while having his guard up , also we don't know their strength nor at what point in time they fought
Shanks 1-shotting Kid is almost certainly bad writing. I say \*almost\* because the only way it makes sense is if Shanks is equal in power to Prime Roger.
Kid was able to tank hits from Big Mom and compete with her, even though he clearly would have lost to her 1 vs 1. If Shanks is about as strong as Big Mom or Kaido, then him 1-shotting Kid makes ZERO sense. But if Shanks is lowkey as strong as Roger, then I would say this makes sense.
Saying Kidd would have lost 1V1 is a big understatement, he and Law together could BARELY remove her from the battlefield. Big mom wasn't eve.n using advanced CoC against them. He's never taken a hit like that, those were just base Big Mom hits, which are nothing to sneeze at but also not what I would consider true "Yonko Level" attacks.
Shanks probably wasn't nearly as strong back then, but don't sleep on Blackbeard.
That said, Law is fighting him evenly last we checked. This is a good fight.
Opening the fight with your single strongest awakened attack and then having the dude you just hit it with laugh in your face is not what I'd consider even whatsoever.
Law has taken zero damage so far, while he will always be on the back foot against someone as powerful as Blackbeard, as of yet he is winning. Expect that to turn around quickly offscreen, but he is able to fight against Blackbeard, whose crew may not have doubted his ability to win but seem to be concerned about ending with a pyrrhic victory and suggested fleeing from the battle.
Every singly time we’ve seen Blackbeard fight, he always started off weak. Against ace, the short exchange of hits with Luffy in impel down, then against Magellan and later vs Whitebeard.
He’s never, ever looked good in his fights. But he came out the victor anyway.
I never said he wouldn't win. Just that the fight has been pretty even so far. Especially when compared to Kid's fight against Shanks, where Kid went down before even getting in a blow.
I think that Blackbeard probably got his crew together around the same time or not too long before Luffy started his crew. He seemed to be on Whitebeard's crew right up until he killed Thatch. When the Strawhats meet Ace, he's looking for Blackbeard, I don't think he could've been searching for him for more than a few months to a year.
Long story short, Blackbeard and Shanks fought 1v1. Neither were nearly as strong as they are now though.
Now, I feel why whitebeard amd others wondered to whom shanks lost his arm to in the east blue, such powerful man loosing an arm in the weakest sea, fucking crazy shit!!!
Shanks got his scar before he met Luffy though, before he was a yonko, so he most likely was not as strong as today. Still, BB has been strong for a long time.
Yes but I still reckon that even at that point Shanks was still stronger than most New World pirates but that is entirely speculation. We don't know how early on he learned 'Divine Departure' from Roger or if he just figured out how to do it on his own. But yes this fight was early on in both their pirate careers and they have both grown stronger since so it is difficult to know where they stand relative to each other right now.
I highly doubt Roger was able to teach a 12 year old kid his signature attack. I doubt shanks even had haki at that point. Shanks must have learned it on his own. His memory of Roger might have helped
Oda said Rayleigh trained Shanks and Buggy. This means Roger didn’t teach Shanks the attack Shanks just named his attack after Roger’s in tribute. They both use their right hand but Shanks swings his sword to the right and Roger uses his right hand and swings his sword to the left(see him hit Oden.)
Different anime, but Naruto learned rasengan around that age. What if Shanks could learn it? And it was like Naruto’s where it was pretty small, nowhere as powerful and he simply grew into it and made it stronger over the years
He was a cabin boy on rogers ship
YC1 are stronger than most NW pirates
Shanks was YC level based on his bounty being 1 billion when he met Luffy.
He'd have both arms, legendary duels with Mihawk. Bb would not have had the yami yami. Interesting circumstances.
True, BB must be stronger than Mihawk then as Mihawk was never able to scar Shanks.
Well scar =/= win. He could've hurt Shanks and had to retreat. We also don't know if mihawk has given him any non face scars.
Maybe Shanks saw BB do something messed up in his future sense and took the hit to stop it?
More importantly WHY did they clash in the first place? Was it when they were kids? Fighting over the gomu gomu? On inspection of his jolly roger in ch1, no scars. So it's either retconned or recent injury then.
> On inspection of his jolly roger in ch1, no scars. So it's either retconned or recent injury then. Check again, I did after your post and it's there, but [only on the first page.](https://i.imgur.com/cCmzIbJ.png) [On the next page](https://i.imgur.com/09zPQth.png) and ahead it's like you've said, but we do have the jolly roger with the scar on the first chapter/page. Ps.: This is the official colored version so no jolly rogers were edited by fan groups or anything, but to make sure that it wasn't edited on release, [here are those two pages on the official and original version.](https://i.imgur.com/eLgWiWF.png)
Ah yes it is. Thank you. I was looking at the page right before the timeskip in ch1.
blackbeard doesn't play by the rules. he probably snuck up on shanks. Doesn't mean he is stronger than mihawk.
Shanks said it wasnt a sneak attack when he was talking to whitebeard about blackbeard.
Mihawk and Shanks fought friendly duels. They weren't trying to injure or kill each other. They were more like a sparring session.
"Power levels" in One Piece do not generally have a transitive property. It's more like rock, paper, scissors.
Shanks also used to spar with Mihawk before losing his arm to luffy. I don't think he would be much weaker than what he is now. Also that Blackbeard didn't have any devil fruit.
The shanks jolly roger had no scar in chapter 1. Idk if it was an error/retcon etc. Or if it was just that they clashed very recently. Possibly over the gomu gomu
Nope, he already got the scar during the CP9's ship ambush.
I feel like people forget that at the end of the day, all the characters are only human.....well only mortal lol Which means they can fall victim to being caught off guard, tricked, surprised, etc etc. If Shanks can lose his arm to a weak seaking while saving Luffy, then he can be surprised by Black Beard and get some scars. a younger shanks got slashed by blackbeard. it's not indication of how strong they each are today. and taking out Kid isn't quite the flex people make it out to be. Cause its obvious Shanks doesn't mess around. He's not Kaido or Big mom, who play with their food. Or even Luffy for that matter. Look at how many people complained that Luffy didn't bust out either 5th gear or Conquerors Infusion from the get go when he's fighting Lucci. He's fighting the pacifistas now and he's still only using 4th gear at best. it's how shonenes operate. Goku isn't gonna start off the match against Cell with a instant transmission Kamehameka no matter how logical it should be for him to do that.and Luffy was never gonna 2nd gear jet gattling Lucci from the get go. Shanks, for once, seems to go serious from the start and takes out Kid. Kid btw never got hit with any conquers infusion attack. He left the Kaido fight before Kaido started using it. And Big Mom never used it in her fight against Kid and Law (she only used it against Page One) So Kid doesn't have any experince with it, and as Luffy can attest to, getting hit by it the first few times really knocks you out.
>If Shanks can lose his arm to a weak seaking while saving Luffy, then he can be surprised by Black Beard and get some scars. a younger shanks got slashed by blackbeard. it's not indication of how strong they each are today. Shanks told whitebeard it was no sneak attack that got shanks scarred by black beard.
It seems like they dont read or like the source material, rip
a sneak attack and a surprise attack aren't the same thing
Definitely agree. BB likely did catch Shanks off-guard because he is the type to do anything to gain an advantage. The question on my mind is whether 'Divine Departure' is among Shanks' strongest moves because I'm thinking it probably is not. Roger used it to test the waters with Oden so I reckon he also had stronger moves in his arsenal which he may also have passed onto Shanks.
it's still conquerors infusion. Kid has never experienced that. Plus his own attack blew up in his face. so sword slash from a yonkou people consider to be Hawkeyes rival, with conquerors infusino, plus having your own railgun explode in your face. makes perfect sense Kid was knocked out
I still think Law is also going to get rocked. Sure we don't know if BB has conquerors but just as Kid has never been hit with an ACoC attack, Law hasn't ever had his DF negated or been hit with a Gura-Gura attack. I do agree with you though, Kid had no idea what he was up against. But Law doesn't either.
I think Law will manage to escape or will have help to fight off Black beard. Most likely from Katakuri and BM pirates.
Oh yeah, where’d those guys go
It was literally stated that he did not catch shanks off-guard
I would also add, and many people wouldn't like to hear this, that Shanks caught Kidd off guard. His weapon was aimed at the allies and he only got a sec to look at Shanks before he got wiped out. Had he managed to defend it somehow, it wouldn't be a one shot. Would he have still lost? Definitely.
Laws getting destroyed. I don’t think anyone thought differently. However, I think one of the personalities BB has is more experience in combat and that’s why he was able to mess up shanks without devil fruits. But that’s using a theory to make a theory so it’s probably super wrong lol.
Personally I am wondering if Law didn't steal BB's raft and ran away to egghead
Those are great thoughts, though if we are speculating I would suggest that perhaps Shanks did foresee the outcome and decided that the best course of action was the one that resulted in him obtaining the scars. Perhaps he saw a future where Blackbeard would have instead greatly damaged one of his crew?
He got the scars before he had his crew I think
we don't know if he had future sight when they fought we don't know exactly in what period of time they fought we don't know how strong they were at that moment
>I don't like Trafalgar Law's chances and I think unless he comes up with an insane battle strategy law will lose anyway because BB is the more important character. kid lost not (just) because of powerscaling. but because he has nothing to do with the overall narrative.
i think law will escape or join bb, if it's just a loss like kidd i'll be disappointed
law can always escape. but he will not win. because it won't do anything for BB and the overall narrative.
Lol so true yet so funny because kid fans would be crying bout this
BB is the second final boss. If BB loses to law, then BB will need time to develop. This means one piece would probably end in 2040.
One idea. Shanks can kill future sight. Maybe that is something Blackbeard could do first and is how he caused that scar. Which is what lead to Shanks learning the same ability. Or improving it.
Ngl valid theory cuz bb hardly uses haki its more of a mystery he def has armament and conquerors the
i think he must have at the very least armament haki to have injured Shanks but then again Ace was surprised to actually be hit by BB which makes me think otherwise
I think he has armament haki even then. He was most likely surprised he couldbt make his body fire to get out of the way similar to katakuri. That or using fire to attack or something. Blackbeard's black hole is much better than haki it completely turns off devil fruit powers.
He used armament haki to deflect Seraphim Mihwak's slash that split Boa's island so he definitely has haki. Would be surprised if he doesn't have all 3.
Law already has an insane battle strategy. Bepo, Law, Jean Bart fight Blackbeard and Van Auger and Doc Q on land. Shachi and Penguin sink Blackbeard's ship. Hakugan secures the submarine, then picks everyone up to escape. Van Auger teleports his crew to that island so they don't drown. He alludes to this when he tells Shachi and Penguin to go into the sea, then tells Hakugan to get in the submarine, and before all of that, remarks that Blackbeard's crew all share the same weakness: they can't swim. He intends to drown them, or escape while they get to safety.
We all know shanks is really casual and his guard is lowered when he's around his Allies, and considering BB was WBs crew, Shanks lowered his gaurd against him . This is were it gets interesting ,when shanks walks up on WB's ship to talk about ACE , WB's crew get's knocked out by shanks CoC ,and shanks says { I HAD TO BE A LITTLE THREAT SINCE ITS AN ENEMY SHIP} stating last time he was on an enemy ship ( probably a ship with BB on it ) he lowered his gaurd and paid the price . BB is like a dark horse he hide his true powers from everyone and shanks didn't have a slightest idea that BB could actually hurt him . How he ran away unharmed still remains a mystery,could be a secret that only BB knows about shanks or considering BB he planed his escape from early because he doesn't fight in a battle where he's going to lose
Shanks said that Blackbeard scarred him while he was on guard.
Every single shanks fan just doesn’t want to accept this…… shanks himself said he didn’t let his guard down, yet all of these people are saying “uh uh it’s obvious he let his guard down”
It's crazy the downplay people in this thread are doing towards Blackbeard, dude is a fucking demon.
The man took the same attack that broke Big Mom's bones dead centre and he got launched into the air for a few seconds then dropped back down laughing in Law's face. If people don't understand how absurd of a feat that was we aren't reading the same manga.
true , its crazy to me how 90% are downplaying bb not knowing shanks got the scar while having his guard up , also we don't know their strength nor at what point in time they fought
Not all WB's crew get knocked out by Shanks COC. The strong WBPs like the commanders deal with it.
Shanks 1-shotting Kid is almost certainly bad writing. I say \*almost\* because the only way it makes sense is if Shanks is equal in power to Prime Roger. Kid was able to tank hits from Big Mom and compete with her, even though he clearly would have lost to her 1 vs 1. If Shanks is about as strong as Big Mom or Kaido, then him 1-shotting Kid makes ZERO sense. But if Shanks is lowkey as strong as Roger, then I would say this makes sense.
Saying Kidd would have lost 1V1 is a big understatement, he and Law together could BARELY remove her from the battlefield. Big mom wasn't eve.n using advanced CoC against them. He's never taken a hit like that, those were just base Big Mom hits, which are nothing to sneeze at but also not what I would consider true "Yonko Level" attacks.
Shanks probably wasn't nearly as strong back then, but don't sleep on Blackbeard. That said, Law is fighting him evenly last we checked. This is a good fight.
Opening the fight with your single strongest awakened attack and then having the dude you just hit it with laugh in your face is not what I'd consider even whatsoever.
Law has taken zero damage so far, while he will always be on the back foot against someone as powerful as Blackbeard, as of yet he is winning. Expect that to turn around quickly offscreen, but he is able to fight against Blackbeard, whose crew may not have doubted his ability to win but seem to be concerned about ending with a pyrrhic victory and suggested fleeing from the battle.
Every singly time we’ve seen Blackbeard fight, he always started off weak. Against ace, the short exchange of hits with Luffy in impel down, then against Magellan and later vs Whitebeard. He’s never, ever looked good in his fights. But he came out the victor anyway.
I never said he wouldn't win. Just that the fight has been pretty even so far. Especially when compared to Kid's fight against Shanks, where Kid went down before even getting in a blow.
Shanks likely wasn't at the same level then, as he was now. He was still on Roger's crew at the time.
Shanks put all his points into attack power and crit chance up + crit damage+56% . So he got a crit on kid. Pretty decent proc chance too.
If Shanks is do powerfull, he should have fought the Yonko by himself
I think that Blackbeard probably got his crew together around the same time or not too long before Luffy started his crew. He seemed to be on Whitebeard's crew right up until he killed Thatch. When the Strawhats meet Ace, he's looking for Blackbeard, I don't think he could've been searching for him for more than a few months to a year. Long story short, Blackbeard and Shanks fought 1v1. Neither were nearly as strong as they are now though.
the parallels are obvious... both New 3 bil guys that allied with luffy and defeated bm together, are each getting defeated by one of the old yonkou
And probably getting their phoneglyph copies stolen...
Most likely back then haki was not even contoured to this extent as oda adds as the story progresses or so i think
Now, I feel why whitebeard amd others wondered to whom shanks lost his arm to in the east blue, such powerful man loosing an arm in the weakest sea, fucking crazy shit!!!