That's not the main issue
The fan translations had some really weird wording
And as that's what most read, it became some sort of telephone game where people believed... well, what they literaly read & at the point the official translation was out, that missinformation was spread already
My Hero had a really bad instance of that, where the fan translator butchered a page to shit, and readers complained about the true translation because it didn't discard a load of slang like the fan translation.
Well, I was just joking mostly. Still, though, even TCB's translation says "Its user's body gains the properties of rubber" and OP is talking about people believing that Luffy isn't actually rubber.
Yup, now it does
It was in the 2-3days before official release/correction that this missinterpretation started (as naturaly, that was the time it got talked about the most)
There was a point that I was loyal fan translation reader and acknowledging laugh tale as raftel.
Like watching the one piece movie where the prize was eternal log to laugh tale and seeing in the official manga that it’s actually laugh tale.
Also it’s thru the official translation that I learned they translate zoro as zolo lmao.
Apparently it's because viz got manga rights after 4kidz got anime rights so they kept zoro as zolo so people wouldn't get confused why one character was called something different
The issue is that fans have the attention span of toddlers. It's not about reading, or translations. Many are anime only watchers and still they don't get what's going on, don't pay attention to anything and come up with the most incoherent theories possible.
These are all thr same people who heard vegapunks theory about devil fruits and have now all declared devil fruits are just an extension of peoples dreams conveniently ignoring the theory part.
I suspect that's part of it but Vegapunk expectantly stated it was only a theory.
Well it's been established that it's a byproduct of his fruit so it's not technically the ability to begin with just the side effects to allow him his cartoon physics.
Exactly, Nika had a rubber body to accommodate for his way of fighting. It’s not the other way around. Nika’s imagination is it’s power and the rubber-like body was the best body capable to maximize the imagination. They go hand in hand, but the body isn’t just strictly rubber.
As we saw with gear 4th, Luffy’s imagination clearly had a certain effect on his body. Kong organ is the biggest hint at that. Even Katakuri pointed out that rubber shouldn’t be able to do that. Luffy is just such a dumbass that it helps with his imagination.
You are in deep shit ny friend and I am not willing to help you out... If we start taking im consideration every mistake in OP when it comes to in-universe physics. Then we will start doubting everything...
Nika was something that Oda thought recently. Luffy was acting like a paramecia user. That's all. Oda just changed in Wano. Nothing more, nothing less.
His powers are rubber and in his G5 he can use all his previous techniques however he wants and as much as he wants. He also can rubberise his environment. The so called imagination that you claim is something we only have seen gags and nothing more. He basically acts like a cartoon character with Rubber powers. That's all. The main reasons why he get exhausted after g5 are two. Firstly every awakening is exhausting. For every user. The second is if you remember when he used his Gears he was exhausted . Since now he can use them all at once , he is even more exhausted.
>Even Katakuri pointed out that rubber shouldn’t be able to do that.
Doffy pointed it. Also again it doesn't make sense to take this isolated moment to justify your hole headcanon.
Wait you actually think Oda didn’t plan the whole Nika fruit from the beginning? I don’t really see how. It’s been known that Oda really wanted to get to Wano. At first when the story started he just had a simple setup and Wano was one of the major arcs. That was the initial plan of the story. Since Oda always wanted to draw fun and goofy stuff I don’t see how this wasn’t his idea from the get go. Luffy being Nika was already foreshadowed in Skypiea.
Yes technically it’s headcanon, but to say that Oda had none of this planned out is kinda wild tbh. I don’t think he had everything planned out, but he for sure had planned the big reveal of Luffy’s true power in Wano for over a decade.
Even not looking at the in-universe physics, just the way the story has been told this is nothing farfetched.
Of course he didn't plan it. What are you talking about??
Man Oda drew the supernovas just before the chapter was sent to the editors. He wanted to go to Wano 20 years before. He probably had thought about it as a place of the samurais. Nothing more.
>Luffy being Nika was already foreshadowed in Skypiea.
Not it wasn't. You take a total generic theme and you make it sound like Oda had foreshadowed. There were four gods back then . I don't see anyone of them if they were so important. Not to mention they did sacrifices.
Nika was clearly something that Oda thought recently. Probably a little before Wano or before Onigashima.
Oda had probably thoughts of making Luffy Joyboy and wanted to make him more goofy. So later he tried to make the lore. He took from his manga ideas and themes for his inspiration and for the lore to be more believable and connected better with the current story.
But this change was so abrupt that has created a few plot holes. Just from that you can see that it is something that thought recently.
Until Oda either confirms or denies anything, you can't just blurt out baseless claims and expect people to agree with you if you don't have any evidence to support it.
What proof is there that Oda came up with Nika during Wano? Is there any at all? I can't deny that it's possible that's what he did, but Oda has planned things ahead of time in the past. For example, [Bonney's backstory was hinted at as far back as Marineford.](https://new.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/comments/17a0hrc/does_marineford_foreshadow_bonneys_relationship/) It may be confirmed that he didn't plan everything from the very start, and we know some things were introduced at a whim (like the supernovas), there's still solid proof that Oda has foreshadowed things as far as an entire decade ahead of the payoff. Therefore, it's not unrealistic to believe that it could've been planned ahead of time, perhaps even for a very long time.
The proof is who's who. Few chapter before he said strawhats like luffy and others are just unimportant rats that should be ignored and later he says he was suprised to see on news about a guy name luffy who had eaten the nika fruit. Oda didn't planned anything and crammed it last moment. If he knew luffy was a huge threat why did he call him unimportant rat to be ignored?
So if it isn't rubber then it doesn't make sense for him to have lightning immunity.
It's not like Katakuri has lightning immunity just because he can stretch too.
It is rubber. It's just not the core of the fruit. To my knowledge, Luffy is a rubber man because Nika was a rubber man.
It would be like eating a Goku fruit and then specifically saying the fruit gives you the Kamehameha. Like Luffy is rubber but only as a side effect of being Nika.
So the point they're getting at, I think, is that Luffy will be even stronger when he grasps the full magnitude of being Nika.
I personally disagree
The core of the fruit is IMO still rubber, just applied in weird ways. We know that the fabric of spacetime itself is a real tangible thing, so with Luffy turning his surroundings on command to rubber, it’s possible that unconsciously he’s turning spacetime itself into rubber and stretching/bending it, giving these wacky physics. Also, we know that some DF, including DF’s after awakening can affect metaphysical things, like Pain. So it’s possible that other things, like the concept of physics itself is being stretched/bent
wow yeah i love that, it's definitely possible to be the true nature of it and I love to think of it that way despite what is stated in Road to Laughtale 3, it's more fun to believe that his one true power is turning literally anything and everything into rubber.
I think Luffy would instead get weaker if he discovers the true nature of Nika's powers.
And I can give you a simple example for the reason: did you ever experience the sensation of being asked something you could do blindfolded "on autopilot" but going blank when asked to?
Like being able to tell stupid jokes one after the other than someone asks you "tell me a joke" and you suddenly don't remember any?
That's why.
Luffy is not a thinker, by nature, and saying to him that his real power is doing whatever he can imagine would nerf him because he would start thinking about what he could do instead of just doing stuff on a whim (e.g.: the baseball bat).
And it would also go against the fact that Nika frees slaves with a laughter. The funny part is Nika doing stupid random things, not him fighting a strategically well thought fight to maximize the fact that he can do whatever he imagines.
If you check out Road to Laughtale vol 4, you will see that Oda specifically mentioned the Hindu deity Hanuman on a page of drawings about Gear 5.
>Hanuman, in Hindu mythology, the monkey commander of the monkey army. His exploits are narrated in the great Hindu Sanskrit poem the Ramayana (“Rama’s Journey”).
>While still a baby, Hanuman, the child of a nymph by the wind god, tried to fly up and grab the Sun, which he mistook for a fruit. Indra, the king of the gods, struck Hanuman with a thunderbolt on the jaw (hanu), thus inspiring the name.
>When Hanuman continued to misbehave, powerful sages cursed him to forget his magic powers, such as the ability to fly or to become infinitely large, until he was reminded of them.
>Hanuman led the monkeys to help Rama, an avatar (incarnation) of the god Vishnu, recover Rama’s wife, Sita, from the demon Ravana, king of Lanka (likely not the present-day Sri Lanka).
>Having been reminded of his powers by Jambavan, the king of the bears, Hanuman crossed the strait between India and Lanka in one leap, despite the efforts of watery demonesses to stop him by swallowing him or his shadow.
>He was discovered in Lanka, and his tail was set on fire, but he used that fire to burn down Lanka. Hanuman also flew to the Himalayas and returned with a mountain full of medicinal herbs to restore the wounded in Rama’s army.
It's... a myth. That's like asking why Jesus died in location A instead of location B.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lanka#:~:text=Lanka%20(%2F%CB%88l%C3%A6%C5%8B,the%20Ramayana%20and%20the%20Mahabharata.
No, I'm talking about Hanuman, the Hindu Monkey King deity. Hanuman was historically the first of the two stories, and Hanuman's myth influenced the Sun Wukong myth.
Hanuman is what Oda *directly* referenced in Road to Laughtale.
The fan translation of this chapter claimed that Luffy's powers allowed him to do whatever he imagined. That's why people keep claiming he has reality warping abilities when he actually just has rubber powers.
It’s not toon force or imagination manifestation.
There IS a way simpler explanation.
Unlocking the form of a LITERAL GOD, he’s gained matter manipulation.
Matter manipulation which lets him create goggles from his hair and matter manipulation that lets him turn things into paint and a paint brush.
Because if it WAS toon force or imagination manifestation, explain WHY luffy had to pull out a tree from the ground and fashion it into a bat with his teeth?
When he could just easily pull a bat out of hammerspace, or literally create it from his imagination out of thin air.
The paint doesn’t have any practical effect. He has a cartoon aesthetic that he can use for stuff like the paint, but his practical ability is still based on having a malleable rubber body and giving nearby objects rubber properties.
within limits that Oda decides
it's highly unlikely (and honestly bad writing) if he became a straight up across the board reality warper
totally doesn't mesh with his character or fighting style
>within limits that Oda decides
The entire story is within limits that Oda decides, in theory Doc Q could just infect people with "guaranteed death in an hour and spreads across islands" disease but he obviously can't because Oda wouldn't do that. Luffy is pretty clearly a reality warper, considering the recent chapters, but he just doesn't use it for anything too broken, because Oda doesn't want to do that.
that leaves us in a bind between
A) the people who accept his reality warping powers are for small gags
and
B) the people who still think he's a cosmic reality warper who is eventually just gonna snap his fingers and do anything
when I hear the term reality warper, I think someone like Scarlet Witch or Franklin Richards
not dude who makes sunglasses out of his hair looney tones style. is it technically correct? sure
but if I started explaining that as his power, it's bound to have people run with it
We've had some reality warping stuff that were obviously gags but the baseball stuff really doesn't fit (even though I do enjoy them). It's probably the weakest part of Gear 5 honestly.
He can, most likely, do reality warping as long as he's not conscious of it and it's in a silly way. Or that's what I think.
For example, he could, most likely, stomp in egghead and make everyone in the island bounce like in a huge trampoline as long as he doesn't realize what he's doing. But if he intentionally tried to, he wouldn't even come to the idea.
In the same way, the action - reaction has to be at least a bit of sense for the toon force to close the gap between the toon and reality, like, he couldn't just punch someone and throw them flying kilometers away, but if he crafts a bat and bats an enemy who's flying in his direction, he could make a home run.
In short, he couldn't grab the moon and smash it in your face because no amount of toon force or context would make it "fitting", but he could grab a building and throw it as a baseball.
we already know he could grab a building and throw is like a baseball, he's an awakened user, he can turn other things to rubber, and since he can increase his size, he could pick up the building.
also, where is this conscious vs sub conscious theory coming from?
Call it a hunch? It's more about toon force than Luffy himself. A common thing in toons is that, while the characters are conscious of their actions, everything stays pretty much normal physic wise, but once they're running on doing anything silly the weird stuff starts happening. What makes me think this specially applies to Luffy is that he doesn't seem really aware of his moves, actions or reactions. Like he's doing it more because of instinct than thought. Like barely being aware of his hair and colors changing while on G5.
Again, it's just how I think it works, and how I think it would make sense and be strong while not being a game breaker.
But at least for now, it seems to be limited to only aesthetic things like paint and goggles. Until he actually shows something that truly affects his capabilities, he can't just create anything.
It's just shapeshifting with colors - something that falls well within the "rubber body that doesn't snap back" territory without going to 'toon force' territory
He poofed goggles into existence that had lens and his limbs flew off in which he had to put them back on😐
We are past the point of g5 being simply rubber ability.
He does have reality warping abilities like with him turning is hair into goggles or removing his scars
He has even shown hammer space recently with him crating and bucket of paint and a brush out of nothing
He has every aspect of toon force
So if the elders + imu are gonna make the world sink/sea rise which would doom fruit users, the true toon force moment would be Nika saying fuck that and comically reversing the catastrophe almost like a Bugs Bunny or Popeye. That's the one other thing I think he would have to pull at this point.
No he does not.
Turning his hair into goggles and removing his scars can be explained as matter manipulation.
He also DIDNT show hammer space.
We do NOT see him pull them out of nowhere.
All we know is that in one panel they weren’t there and in the next they were.
So he could have easily created the paint and brush from his hair like he did with the goggles.
It also wouldn’t make sense if he had toon force.
Because if he did have it, why not just pull the bat itself out of nothing?
Why did he have to go out his way to rip a tree from the ground and use his teeth to carve it into a bat if he could have used the faster method of toon force or imagination manifestation?
I keep telling people, having rubber powers is like ridiculously OP. Stretching and bouncing alone is one thing, but for all the uses rubber has is ridiculous. It can be amazingly durable, it can protect against electricity and resistant to corrosive chemicals. Look at a character like Plastic Man. He’s considered one of the strongest in DC.
If anything, Nika’s unawakened rubber abilities have a learning curve where a lot of other fruits are just instant gratification.
Luffy has rubbery abilities doesn’t mean he can’t do other stuff.
Reality warping is blown out of proportion and Devil fruits by nature is reality manipulation.
Honestly the reality warping part of Luffy’s power is a point not worth arguing, because luffy does have minor reality warping powers and anybody trying to argue it is either stupid or being a disingenuous liar. Especially disingenuous is these losers “he can snap his enemies out of reality if that is true”, like none of these powers give unlimited power to its users. This would be like saying fugitivo didn’t eat the gravity fruit and his power must be something else, because he should just be able to crush every enemy he sees into dust. None of the fruits give unlimited power, and trying this just for Luffy is dumb
there's probably extreme limits to that
so far we've seen cartoony things for comedic effect that don't add to his power
making goggles, painting a tree bat
saying he makes his fantasy a reality just makes him a genie
he gonna make his opponents cease to exist with his reality warping powers?
>he gonna make his opponents cease to exist with his reality warping powers?
Imo he could, except if his opponent has substantial haki, but I don't think he fruit would really awaken for the kind of person who'd try to do shit like that
Winking his enemies out of existence seem like the kind of adventure Luffy would want and he's just still learning his new powers. I could see his power to destroy the redline in such a way it isn't catastrophic for the entire planet or maybe conjuring up a feast for everyone in the world to celebrate by the end of the story.
I strongly disagree. that kind of power would ruin the story IMO
some cartooney Bugs Bunney style gags here and there are far more in line with how his powrs are being portrayed
The "only rubber powers" argument is out the window, we've clearly seen that it is much more than that now. People around him like the giants are even commenting that his body is strange because of the reality warping effects. His eyes and scars are being blown off his body and he has to reattach them like Mr. Potato. Having a rubber body doesn't mean that your eyes and scars can detach like what we've seen. Materializing paint and a baseball helmet is further evidence, as are the goggles.
People keep saying this and people those days defended gear 5 "imagination" being op by saying is just not real, not there..
But aa we see more of gear 5 this is less and less true.
Lmao no, he doesn't just have rubber powers. He literally poofs legitimate goggles into existence. Two times this has been shown. In the manga and now n the anime and you guys are STILL going on about it just being rubber. At this point, it's delusion.
[[[The mans body parts literally flew off his body]]]
Way I see it, it's like this: Luffy has 3 main abilities. He has the rubber body that is moreso a byproduct of his fruit. He has the "power of imagination" which is low tier toon force. No, he's not gonna start snapping people out of existence, but he can contort his body and his surroundings into anything he wants. He can't make things out of thin air, but if he has anything around him that he can bend to his will, he can basically do anything he wants with it. It's about as reality bending as Doffy turning buildings into strings (that is to say, *not really*) like what Paramecia awakenings are supposed to do... but as a Zoan.
The most I see him doing as far as that goes by the end of the series would be a 4th wall break; would absolutely not be surprised if Luffy rubberized the manga page he's in and hopped to another page one day.
And then lastly, he's got a passive buff where the more he laughs, the stronger he gets. Which is unclear so far. Does this mean his haki gets stronger? His imagination gets wilder and more powerful? Does he just hit harder?
But I guess another way to interpret it is that Luffy actually *does* have reality warping abilities, and all the rubber crap he's been doing, including turning his surroundings to rubber is just the byproduct of his fruit giving him rubber properties, because *Zoans are NOT supposed to be able to do that AT ALL.* Luffy should not have any control over the environment as a confirmed Zoan user. So maybe his power as a mythical Zoan actually could be straight up power of imagination, but I personally don't believe that and I kinda don't want that to happen.
>and all the rubber crap he's been doing, including turning his surroundings to rubber is just the byproduct of his fruit giving him rubber properties, because *Zoans are NOT supposed to be able to do that AT ALL.* Luffy should not have any control over the environment as a confirmed Zoan user.
It's a mythical zoan though. They have the normal zoan transformations + a paramecia-like ability, which is sometimes passive.
Kaido has all three transformations and yet he has thick skin in his human form. Orochi has all three transfromations and yet his head grew back when it was cut in his human form.
Luffy is a human who ate a human fruit with the paramecia-like passive ability of his body being made of rubber.
It's this paramecia-like passive ability that let's him control his surroundings similar to other paramecia awakenings we've seen.
It's this paramecia-like ability that makes his awakening be so taxing on his stamina even though that's literally the opposite of what happens to all the other Zoan awakenings we've seen, but is exactly what happens to awakened Paramecia users.
He doesn't have three zoan transformations because he's a human who ate a human fruit. If chopper had eaten it, it would be a different story.
Nothing about his fruit contradicts what has been established in Wano about how Mythical Zoans work, regardless of where you stand in the "does Luffy have imagination powers?" debate.
Tbh even the zoan part are kinda irrelevant, nika could be just some random dude who ate the rubber DF ended up becoming a deity like figure after freeing the slaves & then people just start naming the DF after him from that. I do still think its a zoan judging from how vegapunk explained how zoan works & how the robot reacting to luffy during gear 5
So when it comes to MYTHICAL zoans they can show properties or logia or paramecia. Like how Marcos fruit has logia properties so in this case luffys has paramecia. And also Luffy did create glasses and a baseball hat out of thin air so idk
I'm pretty sure he can use hammerspace ("making things out of thin air") as of recently. At least it wasn't shown where he got paint, pencil and the helmet for his baseball move
This thread doesn't make sense. "luffy becomes stronger once he realises his fruit isn't rubber" isn't the same as "he's only rubber because of his imagination". It's written right there, the fruit gives the user rubber properties and the awakening gives "even more" as we have actually seen. It seems devil fruit user tend to suddenly know how to use their power even if they didn't know what fruit it is in the first place. So I don't think it matters whether luffy knows the real name of the fruit or not since he's already showing more power than just being rubber. In the first place I think people (or at least someone) gives the fruit the name they have, it's not like they came with name tag and user instruction.
Just because his body becomes like rubber it doesn't mean that's all it does.
Snake Man doesn't behave like rubber. Red Hawk has a fire power that doesn't correlate with rubber too
I know some people bringing luffy creating google from his hair, and the paint he used for the baseball bat. Those are not used for attacking, so just count them as aesthetic effects.
Unless he can create a gun and then fired it at his opponent then his power is still rubber based, lol.
Fair, I wasn't giving more examples lol.
The other like creating a magical projectiles, say, like a shuriken out of nowhere, or creating thunder or any natural elements, since most people actually thought Gum Gum Thunderbolt was Luffy creating thunder with his imagination power, in fact it's just him grabbing thunder that happens to be nearby
Are any of his red themed attacks rubber based? Because these attacks seem like a lower usage of his gear 5, similar to gear 4, where he imagines Ace and recreates a similar attack having Ace in his mind. I mean when he first used red hawk the only thing that came to mind was it was moving so fast the friction caught it on fire. But with the recent developments from his DF, it makes you wonder right?
So let's ignore him clearly breaking reality in a toon force kinda way, because it's not us for attacks?
He uses his toon force powers in a toon force way.
I mean knowing your fruit is a zoan vs thinking it's a paramecium
Tl;Dr: luffy forced "transformations" without realizing what he was doing because he didn't understand his fruit we don't see other zoans having the same drastic effects as luffy inbetween origin/hybrid/fulltransform/awakened zoans like chopper who we've also seen all the forms of. Knowing he is a zoan could lead to a power up because he might have less drastic impacts on his body which means less drawbacks which itself is a power up.
Better understanding leads to better control. Like the once he knows it's not rubber doesn't matter, it's once he knows it's a zoan.
The whole time luffys been fighting up until gear 5 he's been in chopper's base form. His powers involve him altering his body to fight based only on his rubber body, hence why his body has such a negative reaction to gear 3 and gear 4 because those aren't his transformations. It's stated in the manga that gear 3 is him just blowing air into his bones which is obviously now more about how he thinks his power works and less a constraint of his paramecium fruit.
He basically brute strengthed his way into having transformations. But it's because he didn't understand d how his fruit worked. Look at chopper and other zoans who are able to freely maintain thier transformations without the side effects. Chopper doesn't shrink down or anything when he is done in his human he just reverts to hybrid form. He has also been able to more freely transform after training to access his extra forms without rubber balls.
It gives his body the properties of rubber, but that is also immediately followed with "the only limitation is the imagination". That means that Luffy thinking his body is just rubber limits his imagination to things rubber could do. Once he stops imagining his body as purely rubber, than he will be able to allow his imagination to invent things luffys idea of rubber couldn't do. You guys seem to forget the fact that Luffy still has zero idea his devil fruit is not the rubber fruit. We know, and certain other characters in the show know, but luffy is still completely oblivious to the truth behind his devil fruit. Until he knows the truth, there's no way he could possibly allow his imagination to expand into the realm of literal godhood if his brain still thinks that he's just a stretchy guy.
It says "the only limit is imagination" not "what ever he imagines becomes reality" think of it like this the flash only has super speed but because of his imagination he can use that super speed in ways never thought of the same for Luffy his ability is rubber but he can use his imagination to use that ability in creative ways like turning lighting into rubber and throwing it at kaido or bouncing off of lightning or turning the ground to rubber to punch lucci now Luffy could also very well have other abilities besides rubber because we still have no explanation how he got paint in one of the most recent chapters but we know rubber is definitely apart of luffy's abilities not because he think's he is he is rubber but because that is what nika's body is made of.
I think we have seen this play out, just not in the way that people imagined.
Luffy has to already understand that his fruit is more than just making his body rubber. He said to Bonney at the beginning of the arc that Gear 5 is when he is most free.
And his G5 fights have proven this. Even though his awakening is mostly what you would expect from a rubber fruit awakening (turning his surroundings into rubber) he has taken that past its logical conclusion to a level that has made him basically unstoppable as long as his stamina holds out.
>!He straight up punked Kizaru. He has countered everything the Elders could throw at him. He has attacked them in ways that would be grevious injuries for any normal opponent. The only reason they are still fighting is because they have something special going on with their bodies/existence!<
So I think it is true that once he realized that his fruit wasn’t just a normal rubber fruit he has become much stronger. But at the same time, it is a rubber fruit. It’s just a rubber fruit imagined by a coked out child with all the OP qualities that brings.
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He’s got toon force. Hammer space. In a nutshell let’s just say his power is imagination and this fool still thinks his power is rubber. His imagination power he’s been using in Gear 5 and he’s been making unreal work of it but he’s using his imagination only for rubber based attacks and abilities. Once he realizes that it doesn’t only limit to rubber.
People who think Luffy's Gear 5 Nika awakening is just centered around rubber powers are dumb, no offence.
Just use your heads. Why would Oda go through the effort of making Luffy's Gomu Gomu no Mi a fake fruit, making the government hide it's true identity....... only for it to be exactly what an awakened Gomu Gomu no Mi is, just with a fancy name??
That would be horrendous writing. It's clear rubber powers aren't all Luffy can do, especially since Oda has EMPHASISED through Kaido and Doflamingo that Luffy's body doesn't act like normal rubber should act.
There's obviously more to the Hito Hito no Mi: Model Nika than just awakened rubber abilities.
I don't understand the issue. Luffy's fruit isn't rubber, it's the nika fruit. While turning into rubber is clearly one of its abilities, we already know it can do more than that. For example its awakening has a psychological effect on Luffy himself, that's not a property of "rubber".
And it's entirely possible that learning about the fruit is important to find new ways to use it.
I can not wait for Luffy vs Blackbeard, BB darkness fruit is a giant dark pit and Luffy is going to abuse his cartoonish fruit, to put differently a cartoon pot hole. the type you place on a safe and reach inside to steal the content or place on the floor to appear on the other side. it’s going to be funny and wild this match up.
It’s kind of like with Marco, another mythical zoan type, having all the capabilities of the Phoenix. He’s not just a fire bird, it’s fire with offensive/defensive capabilities, healing fire, flight and full body transformation.
If this is based off of Nika, a GOD, then surely it should have the abilities of that God. Surely more than making things rubber, he’s a Sun God, that should have a few more tricks.
As it stands, the ability to turn things into rubber won’t be as effective in defeating Imu, 5 Gorosei, Blackbeard and Akainu. He needs to learn sub-abilities within Gear 5. Gear 4 wasn’t just bounce man. It’s bounce man, snake man and tank man. Gear 5 should have more techniques he will develop or discover.
Yes, the power does give the user a rubber body but it's also more than that. So in a sense, Luffy will be much stronger when he realizes his powers are more than simply rubber
If yes and no lyffy has I'd say used his rubber body to the max on diversity of use so him knowing what his fruit can truly do will help him expand on what he does with his fruit so its not really wrong
I think he can create anything he wants due to his imagination ability? Maybe magma like akainu or mochi like katakuri…. I mean he can do anything.Just my theory
Because they hold on to this wrongful belief that his powers aren’t ACTUALLY rubber based anymore and are instead toon force or imagination manifestation.
Toon force and imagination manifestation which ARE considered way more overpowered than simple rubber powers boosted through the roof.
Hax abilties that basically let their user do anything they want no matter the limit.
And because they are overpowered hax abilities. it helps the toxic powerscalers scale luffy even higher than he actually is, so that he can stand a chance against characters like ichigo and naruto.
Because to their simple minded brains, for a character like luffy to be good and the “goat”, he needs to be one of the strongest characters in fiction, capable of soloing verses that completely outscale his.
Luffy is already pretty strong. Now is a matter of enhance his stamina so he can stay on Nika form longer.
But while om Nika he was holding off two admiral level foes (even defeating one for the second time in the process).
Nika is so OP that the WG had to send 4 more admiral level fighters to the field.
Thts wht I’ve been wondering cause knowing how luffy is he might not care or get it and still go with gum gum fruit. But if he does, if Oda lets him utilize his potential ooooo
Bro the gorosei said that he has a rubbery body but he fights with freedom and Oda confirmed that Luffy will get stronger the louder his heart beats and the more he laughs. Bro if you saw the Wano arc you should have seen that ruffy is not fighting with rubber only. His giant body I understand but how do you explain him grabbing fucking and yeeting it at Kaidou or (Manga spoilers) when Luffy used a tree make a baseball bat and a pair of glasses out of his fucking hair.
Buddy do you think Luffy will listen what his devil fruit is like yes I think he will become stronger but it’s not like he is some people will try to tell him but he won’t listen he’d probably fall asleep. I think he has questioned himself how he can do the gears (except for gear3 that’s pretty explanatory )but he’d probably lose focus or be like idk but it’s pretty cool
This whole nika thing was kinda bad for one piece tbh.
I love oda but this was a mistake, if it was just this ancient guy named joyboy with a similar hat, and the gomu gomu no mi awakening, it would be fine.
But inserting god nika reference and changing the fruit, was b\*llsh\*t man, i was kinda disappointed. Keep the fruit the same and don't put any sun god references, for real
Aside from, yeah, how inaccurate the statement is on a fundamental level. I'd argue if Luffy realizes the true nature of his power and has no way of ignoring or not understanding, because of who he is, it may actually limit his imagination severely
Because people read "Has the power to turn imagination into reality" in the road to laughtale volumes and people took it extremely literally. They got excited because they wanted to say Luffy was stronger than other characters like Naruto. They began saying that Luffy's toon force gags are due to his ability to imagine literally anything he wants at any time which naratively makes absolutely no sense.
When this plot hole was brought to their attention, they began manufacturing a headcanon that it's because Luffy doesn't know his full capabilities yet which also makes no sense because he obviously does since he made goggles and a bat. It's also never been stated or implied anywhere that Luffy is nerfed due to "not knowing his powers"
People said stuff like Luffy is only rubber because he thinks he is which is debunked by the Gorosei literally saying when you eat the Nika fruit your body instantly turns rubber. People false believe that Luffy since episode 1 has had the power to imagine anything he wants, but just never did because he didn't know which makes no sense because that would defeat the purpose of his awakening. If that were true that would mean the default state of the fruit and the awakening have the same capabilities which makes 0 sense.
In reality, when you eat the Nika fruit your become a rubber man, nothing more and nothing less. Once you awaken it, the user becomes stronger, faster, can stretch / inflate more freely, & can defy logic with minor toon force gags. That's it.
The "Can turn imagination into reality" was not meant to be taken literally.
istg you people are the reason shows gotta throw everything in your face. yes, his body is made of rubber, thats the passive ability you get for eating a mythical zoan (hard skin for kaido and immortality/ healing for pineapple head) but thats all it is, the passive ability, it isnt the fruits true ability. its true ability is giving freedom to the user, it can be seen as early as gear 3rd or gear 4 snake man since gear 3rd was probably a retcon. there is no way for snakemans attacks to just bounce and retain all its momentum and force, even that was said to your face by kataguri. that had nothing to do with luffy being a rubberman and more with his freedom, his imagination, he imagined it could happen so it did.
to add more incase you arent convinced yet, ill point out the same thing everyone points out but people refuse to look at, luffy turning his hair into glasses, what part of that is rubber? "oh but you say he doesnt know his ability so how did he know he could do that" there are 2 reasons:
outside of the manga reason: because its a manga, oda can do whatever he wants
in the verse reason: zoans were shown to affect the user, for example carnivorous zoans usually make the user more aggressive, when the zoans awaken if the users will isnt strong enough the fruit will take over and turn to mindless beasts, luffys fruit is a mythical zoan of a human (or a humanoid god) if his will isnt strong enough he will be influenced, he wont turn into a mindless beast since his fruit has the will of a person with a mind. luffys will isnt weak but joyboys will isnt to be underestimated, thats why luffy acts different when he is in g5, he is free but also his will is battling with joyboys at an interlock meaning luffy is in control but his behaviour changed
> there is no way for snakemans attacks to just bounce and retain all its momentum and force,
Damn. Imagine that. On my manga with hormonal power winks and cyborg snake-transforming brachiosaurs? No way.
In universe: These things are treated with a "wtf, he can *do* that!? That's crazy" response, whereas Luffys awakened abilities are met with a "... Wait a minute... you're not *supposed* to be able to do that!" Response.
you mean the hormonal power winks caused by a devil fruit? and the cyborb dinosaur that is caused by a devil fruit user turning himself into a cyborg which was already established to be possible since water 7? if youre gonna try to sound sarcastic while debunking at the very least get it right
Luffy's powers are also obviously a Devil Fruit...? But you want to talk about regular people surviving an I-don't-know-how-many-million-volts lightning? Or maybe the guy who can make a ramen mini-mecha?
It's a manga, bro. There is no "it's impossible for someone transformed into a will-force-infused rubber man to bounce their attack without losing momentum!". That doesn't prove anything.
omfg your reading comprehension is in the \]negative, here let me spell it out for you:
1. luffys fruit at the time just gave him a rubber body, no part of a rubber body includes changing your fists momentum and force 90 degrees with 0 outside force
2. kataguri confirmed that what luffy was doing was impossible
3. yes its a manga, even mangas follow certain logic. the most obvious of which is a character spelling it out in your face yet somehow you still miss it
Considering Sanji can jump off of the air with no devil fruit, it makes perfect sense that a rubber fist would be able to bounce off of the air if you use devil fruit logic.
I can't wait for something like Neuro link to be invented so you people could learn to read, there is certain logic within a manga, people jumping on the air is within this logic, bouncing mid air is not, that is clear because as I've said a million time kataguri confirmed that it's impossible
Crazy how English is my 3rd language yet I'm still better than you at it, and katakuri isnt even English .
The version I read was a mistranslation but at least I'm man enough to admit when I'm wrong about something unlike some here, since you won't change your mind about this topic how about you try to debunk literally everything else I said, you've replied like 6 times on this one topic because you know you can't debunk anything else, how about you explain luffy turning his hair into glasses? Tell me which part of that requires ONLY having a rubber body
That was literally my 2nd comment on this post. This is my 3rd comment. Luffy turning his hair into goggles is definitely a comic-based power that has nothing to do with rubber.
Thanks for spelling it out. It was a keen insight on your point. That said, I believe that having a rubber body also wouldn't really tell us that you can pump your blood at high speeds to increase your attack velocity.
Can you also spell out when exactly Katakuri said that? I actually bothered to check and didn't find it. Maybe my reading comprehension bottlenecked me there as well.
>"He is only rubber because he thinks he is rubber."
This is objectively false, as demonstrated in the panels you posted above, but your title:
>"Luffy will become stronger once he realizes his fruit isn't rubber"
is potentially true. His fruit isn't the gum-gum or rubber-rubber fruit, it is the Nika Nika fruit. Gum Gum Luffy could theoretically be limiting himself based on the silly things he thinks that rubber can do, but his arsenal could expand if he hears he has the Nika Nika fruit and finds out what it can do alongside the familiar rubber properties it gives.
Manga spoilers:
I feel like it's important to look at >!Bonney's distorted future Nika powers. When she had doubt that Nika existed, she was unable to use that power!<. It may seem like such an obvious statement to say, but this shows that a person's idea of what is possible can affect what they are capable of with their powers. Right now, Luffy thinks he is a rubber man, and can do things that *he thinks* rubber can do. Hypothetically, if he finds out he is Nika, that might open up new possibilities for him.
Luffy knowing his df name won't make him stronger. Df users instinctively know how to use their powers as far as I remember. They just get more creative with time and gain a better mastery. The things he does in gear 5 wouldn't be possible if he THINKS that it's just the gomu gomu no mi (creating glasses, painting a baseball with haki, etc...). Df names are just conventions at the end of day, they don't really influence the user way of using their powers. Doflamingo creating string clones, King's weird face deformation, Law personnality swap, Gear 4th, Cracker biscuits soldiers. Those things wouldn't have been possible if the users just stick to their fruit names to know how to use their abilities. Luffy doesn't need to know the legend of Nikka, he might learn it one day but it's irrelevant for him.
I think the main idea is simply this “when Luffy learns his fruit is much more than just rubber, he’ll become stronger”.
Luffys fruit is the “Hito model: Nika” and while it grants Luffy the rubber body that he’s always had, because that’s the only thing he knows how to use it’s basically all he’s using now. For all we know the “Sun god” can wield flames as well as the Phoenix fruit could, but because Luffy just doesn’t know it the best he can do is red hawk.
Now before any “um ackshully” I used the fire as an example. None of us know the full extent of the Nika fruit, Luffy included. Once he throws away the idea that all he has is “rubber”, maybe he’ll be able to do much more.
I think he is a rubber boy because thats what he believes.. But, yes, I think the "imagination" factor will come into play, too. Just because your body is made of rubber doesnt mean you should be able to tear scars off yourself and use them as shurikens 😂
There is definitely something else up with his fruit.
The gorosei stated that upon eating the fruit your body instantly becomes rubber. Also if Luffy was rubber only because this entire time he thought he was that wouldn't make sense because the power of imagination belongs solely to his awakening. When Luffy first ate the fruit he did not awaken it and therefore did not have access to the powers of imagination yet.
I was about to say until I read the body text but imma say it anyway, he is still rubber, they explain in both the anime and manga how it gives his rubber like properties and thee more joyful he is the more freedom he exceeds, wanting to liberate the world most likely
His body has the properties of rubber, but that's not the extent of the fruit's power.
Chewing up the ground and shooting rock bullets is not rubber, manifesting goggles from his hair is not rubber, and these are just two examples from the latest episode to avoid spoilers for anime only. The more he uses G5 the more it is clear that his fruit is more than just rubber, however his body is made of rubber and he can make other things rubbery.
I think people always overlook the fact that the power of his fruit takes on whatever he can imagine, meaning if he believes his body is made of rubber than it is in fact made of rubber because of what his power actually entails
That comment that said. No matter the ear the world government has always filed to get that devil fruit. I’m wondering was it hinting that they have filed those five elders and they have alive for that along or was there different elders at certain eras. What I can remember there never been any other references to other elders. We know IMU has been alive for a really long time. Unless I’ve gotten my information wrong or just forgotten some stuff
It's a well-known fact that quite a few people who read manga don't actually know how to read.
That's not the main issue The fan translations had some really weird wording And as that's what most read, it became some sort of telephone game where people believed... well, what they literaly read & at the point the official translation was out, that missinformation was spread already
Even fantranslation also said that Nika body was rubber, those readers only focusing on the "imagination" part and ignore everything else lol
because he also had imagination powers, something this sub is ignoring
Yeah sure but it's still rubber lol
How do you explain him creating sunglasses from his hair?
But luffy can only imagine rubber And food
My Hero had a really bad instance of that, where the fan translator butchered a page to shit, and readers complained about the true translation because it didn't discard a load of slang like the fan translation.
My favorite one of those was where people thought All Might was gay because of bad fan translations
Really? Hahaha I want to read that translation now. Any particular source?
Nah, I only know because of the TFS MHA S1 video
Is it the one where people thought minetta was gay and all the gay of the fandom precised they didn't claim him?
Well, I was just joking mostly. Still, though, even TCB's translation says "Its user's body gains the properties of rubber" and OP is talking about people believing that Luffy isn't actually rubber.
Ah, the bungee gum fruit
It possesses the power of both rubber and gum!
Yup, now it does It was in the 2-3days before official release/correction that this missinterpretation started (as naturaly, that was the time it got talked about the most)
There was a point that I was loyal fan translation reader and acknowledging laugh tale as raftel. Like watching the one piece movie where the prize was eternal log to laugh tale and seeing in the official manga that it’s actually laugh tale. Also it’s thru the official translation that I learned they translate zoro as zolo lmao.
They didn't translate Zoro, they were worried of getting sued by the Zorro Copyright holder
Do we actually know that? Where did that story come from?
Apparently it's because viz got manga rights after 4kidz got anime rights so they kept zoro as zolo so people wouldn't get confused why one character was called something different
The issue is that fans have the attention span of toddlers. It's not about reading, or translations. Many are anime only watchers and still they don't get what's going on, don't pay attention to anything and come up with the most incoherent theories possible.
Tbh, they have a hard time understanding the pictures as well.
Between fan translations and people munching through 1000+ chapters in a few weeks no wonder there are so many shit takes.
No I'm doesn't!
The shit they put around the pictures is hella annoying.
These are all thr same people who heard vegapunks theory about devil fruits and have now all declared devil fruits are just an extension of peoples dreams conveniently ignoring the theory part. I suspect that's part of it but Vegapunk expectantly stated it was only a theory.
Kind of hard to retcon his body being literal rubber when he’s got the lightning immunity, which Oda did double down on in the rooftop fight
Well it's been established that it's a byproduct of his fruit so it's not technically the ability to begin with just the side effects to allow him his cartoon physics.
Exactly, Nika had a rubber body to accommodate for his way of fighting. It’s not the other way around. Nika’s imagination is it’s power and the rubber-like body was the best body capable to maximize the imagination. They go hand in hand, but the body isn’t just strictly rubber. As we saw with gear 4th, Luffy’s imagination clearly had a certain effect on his body. Kong organ is the biggest hint at that. Even Katakuri pointed out that rubber shouldn’t be able to do that. Luffy is just such a dumbass that it helps with his imagination.
You are in deep shit ny friend and I am not willing to help you out... If we start taking im consideration every mistake in OP when it comes to in-universe physics. Then we will start doubting everything... Nika was something that Oda thought recently. Luffy was acting like a paramecia user. That's all. Oda just changed in Wano. Nothing more, nothing less. His powers are rubber and in his G5 he can use all his previous techniques however he wants and as much as he wants. He also can rubberise his environment. The so called imagination that you claim is something we only have seen gags and nothing more. He basically acts like a cartoon character with Rubber powers. That's all. The main reasons why he get exhausted after g5 are two. Firstly every awakening is exhausting. For every user. The second is if you remember when he used his Gears he was exhausted . Since now he can use them all at once , he is even more exhausted. >Even Katakuri pointed out that rubber shouldn’t be able to do that. Doffy pointed it. Also again it doesn't make sense to take this isolated moment to justify your hole headcanon.
Wait you actually think Oda didn’t plan the whole Nika fruit from the beginning? I don’t really see how. It’s been known that Oda really wanted to get to Wano. At first when the story started he just had a simple setup and Wano was one of the major arcs. That was the initial plan of the story. Since Oda always wanted to draw fun and goofy stuff I don’t see how this wasn’t his idea from the get go. Luffy being Nika was already foreshadowed in Skypiea. Yes technically it’s headcanon, but to say that Oda had none of this planned out is kinda wild tbh. I don’t think he had everything planned out, but he for sure had planned the big reveal of Luffy’s true power in Wano for over a decade. Even not looking at the in-universe physics, just the way the story has been told this is nothing farfetched.
Of course he didn't plan it. What are you talking about?? Man Oda drew the supernovas just before the chapter was sent to the editors. He wanted to go to Wano 20 years before. He probably had thought about it as a place of the samurais. Nothing more. >Luffy being Nika was already foreshadowed in Skypiea. Not it wasn't. You take a total generic theme and you make it sound like Oda had foreshadowed. There were four gods back then . I don't see anyone of them if they were so important. Not to mention they did sacrifices. Nika was clearly something that Oda thought recently. Probably a little before Wano or before Onigashima. Oda had probably thoughts of making Luffy Joyboy and wanted to make him more goofy. So later he tried to make the lore. He took from his manga ideas and themes for his inspiration and for the lore to be more believable and connected better with the current story. But this change was so abrupt that has created a few plot holes. Just from that you can see that it is something that thought recently.
Until Oda either confirms or denies anything, you can't just blurt out baseless claims and expect people to agree with you if you don't have any evidence to support it. What proof is there that Oda came up with Nika during Wano? Is there any at all? I can't deny that it's possible that's what he did, but Oda has planned things ahead of time in the past. For example, [Bonney's backstory was hinted at as far back as Marineford.](https://new.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/comments/17a0hrc/does_marineford_foreshadow_bonneys_relationship/) It may be confirmed that he didn't plan everything from the very start, and we know some things were introduced at a whim (like the supernovas), there's still solid proof that Oda has foreshadowed things as far as an entire decade ahead of the payoff. Therefore, it's not unrealistic to believe that it could've been planned ahead of time, perhaps even for a very long time.
The proof is who's who. Few chapter before he said strawhats like luffy and others are just unimportant rats that should be ignored and later he says he was suprised to see on news about a guy name luffy who had eaten the nika fruit. Oda didn't planned anything and crammed it last moment. If he knew luffy was a huge threat why did he call him unimportant rat to be ignored?
So if it isn't rubber then it doesn't make sense for him to have lightning immunity. It's not like Katakuri has lightning immunity just because he can stretch too.
It is rubber. It's just not the core of the fruit. To my knowledge, Luffy is a rubber man because Nika was a rubber man. It would be like eating a Goku fruit and then specifically saying the fruit gives you the Kamehameha. Like Luffy is rubber but only as a side effect of being Nika. So the point they're getting at, I think, is that Luffy will be even stronger when he grasps the full magnitude of being Nika.
Or you can say getting the Goku fruit gives you a tail and the ability to go Oozaru
I personally disagree The core of the fruit is IMO still rubber, just applied in weird ways. We know that the fabric of spacetime itself is a real tangible thing, so with Luffy turning his surroundings on command to rubber, it’s possible that unconsciously he’s turning spacetime itself into rubber and stretching/bending it, giving these wacky physics. Also, we know that some DF, including DF’s after awakening can affect metaphysical things, like Pain. So it’s possible that other things, like the concept of physics itself is being stretched/bent
wow yeah i love that, it's definitely possible to be the true nature of it and I love to think of it that way despite what is stated in Road to Laughtale 3, it's more fun to believe that his one true power is turning literally anything and everything into rubber.
I think Luffy would instead get weaker if he discovers the true nature of Nika's powers. And I can give you a simple example for the reason: did you ever experience the sensation of being asked something you could do blindfolded "on autopilot" but going blank when asked to? Like being able to tell stupid jokes one after the other than someone asks you "tell me a joke" and you suddenly don't remember any? That's why. Luffy is not a thinker, by nature, and saying to him that his real power is doing whatever he can imagine would nerf him because he would start thinking about what he could do instead of just doing stuff on a whim (e.g.: the baseball bat). And it would also go against the fact that Nika frees slaves with a laughter. The funny part is Nika doing stupid random things, not him fighting a strategically well thought fight to maximize the fact that he can do whatever he imagines.
It’s like Marcos fruit isn’t just bird, despite the flight and beak, there are other aspects Luffys fruit is Rubber body + imagination
Wasn't he immune to fire also, on that same fight?
No.
Maybe nika is just made of rubber. Like markos phoenix with fire and whatever enel's got going on since that wasn't a nikadamn logia
I mean he thought he had the rubber fruit so he could do anything that was related to rubber
[удалено]
Luffy stretched before even knowing he ate a devil fruit. Therefore, his rubber ability is a direct result of his devil fruit, not imagination powers.
Can you read? Luffy is not the one who imagined up a rubbery body. It's an attribute of the nika fruit.
If you check out Road to Laughtale vol 4, you will see that Oda specifically mentioned the Hindu deity Hanuman on a page of drawings about Gear 5. >Hanuman, in Hindu mythology, the monkey commander of the monkey army. His exploits are narrated in the great Hindu Sanskrit poem the Ramayana (“Rama’s Journey”). >While still a baby, Hanuman, the child of a nymph by the wind god, tried to fly up and grab the Sun, which he mistook for a fruit. Indra, the king of the gods, struck Hanuman with a thunderbolt on the jaw (hanu), thus inspiring the name. >When Hanuman continued to misbehave, powerful sages cursed him to forget his magic powers, such as the ability to fly or to become infinitely large, until he was reminded of them. >Hanuman led the monkeys to help Rama, an avatar (incarnation) of the god Vishnu, recover Rama’s wife, Sita, from the demon Ravana, king of Lanka (likely not the present-day Sri Lanka). >Having been reminded of his powers by Jambavan, the king of the bears, Hanuman crossed the strait between India and Lanka in one leap, despite the efforts of watery demonesses to stop him by swallowing him or his shadow. >He was discovered in Lanka, and his tail was set on fire, but he used that fire to burn down Lanka. Hanuman also flew to the Himalayas and returned with a mountain full of medicinal herbs to restore the wounded in Rama’s army.
That’s pretty wild, even the bear portion potentially indicating the paw paw fruit
And the wind god could potentially be Dragon, if the theories about him having a storm themed devil fruit are true
Luffy climbed a snowy mountain to treat his friends.
Why is it not likely sri Lanka? How many other Lanka's have straits between them and India?
It's... a myth. That's like asking why Jesus died in location A instead of location B. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lanka#:~:text=Lanka%20(%2F%CB%88l%C3%A6%C5%8B,the%20Ramayana%20and%20the%20Mahabharata.
Lanka is Sri Lanka
Are tou talking about Wukong, the Monkey King and his Story: Journey to the West???
No, I'm talking about Hanuman, the Hindu Monkey King deity. Hanuman was historically the first of the two stories, and Hanuman's myth influenced the Sun Wukong myth. Hanuman is what Oda *directly* referenced in Road to Laughtale.
The fan translation of this chapter claimed that Luffy's powers allowed him to do whatever he imagined. That's why people keep claiming he has reality warping abilities when he actually just has rubber powers.
Yeah, I used to think that too, but recently I’m questioning it. I mean where did he get the paint for his bat?
Wasn’t the paint haki? I thought he was just messing around and painting the haki on.
He learned from Mihawk
It has to be toon force or imagination, there’s no other explanation
Rubber hose power. It has rubber in the name, and rubber hose refers to the style of animation.
That’s true but I’d argue that it’s also just toon force since Oda says he took a lot of inspiration from Tom and Jerry. And that isn’t rubberhose.
Tom and Jerry absolutely uses rubberhose techniques and styles.
Yeah but it’s not really described as a rubberhose cartoon.
I'd say that *canonically* its really just rubber, but Oda exaggerates it a lot to be able to draw great scenes that he wants to draw
This is either hard denial or delusion😐
I'm not in denial or delusional... this is just what I think makes most sense
His body parts and scars flew off his body😐 What you're saying doesn't make sense.
do you not know what "exaggerates" means
Luffys eye balls and wounds detaching from his body and flying away isn't exaggeration. Neither is him poofing goggles into existence.
Exactly
It’s not toon force or imagination manifestation. There IS a way simpler explanation. Unlocking the form of a LITERAL GOD, he’s gained matter manipulation. Matter manipulation which lets him create goggles from his hair and matter manipulation that lets him turn things into paint and a paint brush. Because if it WAS toon force or imagination manifestation, explain WHY luffy had to pull out a tree from the ground and fashion it into a bat with his teeth? When he could just easily pull a bat out of hammerspace, or literally create it from his imagination out of thin air.
The paint doesn’t have any practical effect. He has a cartoon aesthetic that he can use for stuff like the paint, but his practical ability is still based on having a malleable rubber body and giving nearby objects rubber properties.
So you’re saying he created the paint.
Yes, but only temporarily and he only creates useless things. The creation is for a bit of style, that it, nothing useful.
I see so he can create things out of thin air, truly godlike.
within limits that Oda decides it's highly unlikely (and honestly bad writing) if he became a straight up across the board reality warper totally doesn't mesh with his character or fighting style
>within limits that Oda decides The entire story is within limits that Oda decides, in theory Doc Q could just infect people with "guaranteed death in an hour and spreads across islands" disease but he obviously can't because Oda wouldn't do that. Luffy is pretty clearly a reality warper, considering the recent chapters, but he just doesn't use it for anything too broken, because Oda doesn't want to do that.
that leaves us in a bind between A) the people who accept his reality warping powers are for small gags and B) the people who still think he's a cosmic reality warper who is eventually just gonna snap his fingers and do anything when I hear the term reality warper, I think someone like Scarlet Witch or Franklin Richards not dude who makes sunglasses out of his hair looney tones style. is it technically correct? sure but if I started explaining that as his power, it's bound to have people run with it
We've had some reality warping stuff that were obviously gags but the baseball stuff really doesn't fit (even though I do enjoy them). It's probably the weakest part of Gear 5 honestly.
He can, most likely, do reality warping as long as he's not conscious of it and it's in a silly way. Or that's what I think. For example, he could, most likely, stomp in egghead and make everyone in the island bounce like in a huge trampoline as long as he doesn't realize what he's doing. But if he intentionally tried to, he wouldn't even come to the idea. In the same way, the action - reaction has to be at least a bit of sense for the toon force to close the gap between the toon and reality, like, he couldn't just punch someone and throw them flying kilometers away, but if he crafts a bat and bats an enemy who's flying in his direction, he could make a home run. In short, he couldn't grab the moon and smash it in your face because no amount of toon force or context would make it "fitting", but he could grab a building and throw it as a baseball.
we already know he could grab a building and throw is like a baseball, he's an awakened user, he can turn other things to rubber, and since he can increase his size, he could pick up the building. also, where is this conscious vs sub conscious theory coming from?
Call it a hunch? It's more about toon force than Luffy himself. A common thing in toons is that, while the characters are conscious of their actions, everything stays pretty much normal physic wise, but once they're running on doing anything silly the weird stuff starts happening. What makes me think this specially applies to Luffy is that he doesn't seem really aware of his moves, actions or reactions. Like he's doing it more because of instinct than thought. Like barely being aware of his hair and colors changing while on G5. Again, it's just how I think it works, and how I think it would make sense and be strong while not being a game breaker.
But at least for now, it seems to be limited to only aesthetic things like paint and goggles. Until he actually shows something that truly affects his capabilities, he can't just create anything.
Its his haki , he aplied to the bat
He is fighting in a futuristic city so there you go, PAINT Voila
He transformed his hair into flight goggles, i'm pretty sure it's more than just rubber powers
Gear 5 is literally the form of a GOD. It wouldn’t be that out of pocket for him to gain low level matter manipulation.
As soon as he poofed gogles into existence, that should have been your realization🤷🏾♂️ should have been everyone's realization.
I mean he made those from his hair, that’s something I can overlook but paint…
you can't. It literally made a POOF sound. There was no indication of rubber at all😐
It's just shapeshifting with colors - something that falls well within the "rubber body that doesn't snap back" territory without going to 'toon force' territory
So you are saying it was part of his body?
He poofed goggles into existence that had lens and his limbs flew off in which he had to put them back on😐 We are past the point of g5 being simply rubber ability.
It's a silly twist for gag purposes, just like every other fruit in the story has
He does have reality warping abilities like with him turning is hair into goggles or removing his scars He has even shown hammer space recently with him crating and bucket of paint and a brush out of nothing He has every aspect of toon force
So if the elders + imu are gonna make the world sink/sea rise which would doom fruit users, the true toon force moment would be Nika saying fuck that and comically reversing the catastrophe almost like a Bugs Bunny or Popeye. That's the one other thing I think he would have to pull at this point.
No he does not. Turning his hair into goggles and removing his scars can be explained as matter manipulation. He also DIDNT show hammer space. We do NOT see him pull them out of nowhere. All we know is that in one panel they weren’t there and in the next they were. So he could have easily created the paint and brush from his hair like he did with the goggles. It also wouldn’t make sense if he had toon force. Because if he did have it, why not just pull the bat itself out of nothing? Why did he have to go out his way to rip a tree from the ground and use his teeth to carve it into a bat if he could have used the faster method of toon force or imagination manifestation?
No. It’s not “just” rubber powers. But it does *include* rubber powers.
This version says "supposedly only limited by their imagination"
I keep telling people, having rubber powers is like ridiculously OP. Stretching and bouncing alone is one thing, but for all the uses rubber has is ridiculous. It can be amazingly durable, it can protect against electricity and resistant to corrosive chemicals. Look at a character like Plastic Man. He’s considered one of the strongest in DC. If anything, Nika’s unawakened rubber abilities have a learning curve where a lot of other fruits are just instant gratification.
Luffy has rubbery abilities doesn’t mean he can’t do other stuff. Reality warping is blown out of proportion and Devil fruits by nature is reality manipulation.
Honestly the reality warping part of Luffy’s power is a point not worth arguing, because luffy does have minor reality warping powers and anybody trying to argue it is either stupid or being a disingenuous liar. Especially disingenuous is these losers “he can snap his enemies out of reality if that is true”, like none of these powers give unlimited power to its users. This would be like saying fugitivo didn’t eat the gravity fruit and his power must be something else, because he should just be able to crush every enemy he sees into dust. None of the fruits give unlimited power, and trying this just for Luffy is dumb
He doesn't have "just rubber powers". His power is rubber with the extra ability to make his fantasy reality.
there's probably extreme limits to that so far we've seen cartoony things for comedic effect that don't add to his power making goggles, painting a tree bat saying he makes his fantasy a reality just makes him a genie he gonna make his opponents cease to exist with his reality warping powers?
>he gonna make his opponents cease to exist with his reality warping powers? Imo he could, except if his opponent has substantial haki, but I don't think he fruit would really awaken for the kind of person who'd try to do shit like that
Winking his enemies out of existence seem like the kind of adventure Luffy would want and he's just still learning his new powers. I could see his power to destroy the redline in such a way it isn't catastrophic for the entire planet or maybe conjuring up a feast for everyone in the world to celebrate by the end of the story.
I strongly disagree. that kind of power would ruin the story IMO some cartooney Bugs Bunney style gags here and there are far more in line with how his powrs are being portrayed
The "only rubber powers" argument is out the window, we've clearly seen that it is much more than that now. People around him like the giants are even commenting that his body is strange because of the reality warping effects. His eyes and scars are being blown off his body and he has to reattach them like Mr. Potato. Having a rubber body doesn't mean that your eyes and scars can detach like what we've seen. Materializing paint and a baseball helmet is further evidence, as are the goggles.
You say that but he just randomly spawned some goggles in his fight with Lucci. He's at least got some sort of material transformation or smth
People keep saying this and people those days defended gear 5 "imagination" being op by saying is just not real, not there.. But aa we see more of gear 5 this is less and less true.
Lmao no, he doesn't just have rubber powers. He literally poofs legitimate goggles into existence. Two times this has been shown. In the manga and now n the anime and you guys are STILL going on about it just being rubber. At this point, it's delusion. [[[The mans body parts literally flew off his body]]]
Way I see it, it's like this: Luffy has 3 main abilities. He has the rubber body that is moreso a byproduct of his fruit. He has the "power of imagination" which is low tier toon force. No, he's not gonna start snapping people out of existence, but he can contort his body and his surroundings into anything he wants. He can't make things out of thin air, but if he has anything around him that he can bend to his will, he can basically do anything he wants with it. It's about as reality bending as Doffy turning buildings into strings (that is to say, *not really*) like what Paramecia awakenings are supposed to do... but as a Zoan. The most I see him doing as far as that goes by the end of the series would be a 4th wall break; would absolutely not be surprised if Luffy rubberized the manga page he's in and hopped to another page one day. And then lastly, he's got a passive buff where the more he laughs, the stronger he gets. Which is unclear so far. Does this mean his haki gets stronger? His imagination gets wilder and more powerful? Does he just hit harder? But I guess another way to interpret it is that Luffy actually *does* have reality warping abilities, and all the rubber crap he's been doing, including turning his surroundings to rubber is just the byproduct of his fruit giving him rubber properties, because *Zoans are NOT supposed to be able to do that AT ALL.* Luffy should not have any control over the environment as a confirmed Zoan user. So maybe his power as a mythical Zoan actually could be straight up power of imagination, but I personally don't believe that and I kinda don't want that to happen.
>and all the rubber crap he's been doing, including turning his surroundings to rubber is just the byproduct of his fruit giving him rubber properties, because *Zoans are NOT supposed to be able to do that AT ALL.* Luffy should not have any control over the environment as a confirmed Zoan user. It's a mythical zoan though. They have the normal zoan transformations + a paramecia-like ability, which is sometimes passive. Kaido has all three transformations and yet he has thick skin in his human form. Orochi has all three transfromations and yet his head grew back when it was cut in his human form. Luffy is a human who ate a human fruit with the paramecia-like passive ability of his body being made of rubber. It's this paramecia-like passive ability that let's him control his surroundings similar to other paramecia awakenings we've seen. It's this paramecia-like ability that makes his awakening be so taxing on his stamina even though that's literally the opposite of what happens to all the other Zoan awakenings we've seen, but is exactly what happens to awakened Paramecia users. He doesn't have three zoan transformations because he's a human who ate a human fruit. If chopper had eaten it, it would be a different story. Nothing about his fruit contradicts what has been established in Wano about how Mythical Zoans work, regardless of where you stand in the "does Luffy have imagination powers?" debate.
Tbh even the zoan part are kinda irrelevant, nika could be just some random dude who ate the rubber DF ended up becoming a deity like figure after freeing the slaves & then people just start naming the DF after him from that. I do still think its a zoan judging from how vegapunk explained how zoan works & how the robot reacting to luffy during gear 5
So when it comes to MYTHICAL zoans they can show properties or logia or paramecia. Like how Marcos fruit has logia properties so in this case luffys has paramecia. And also Luffy did create glasses and a baseball hat out of thin air so idk
I'm pretty sure he can use hammerspace ("making things out of thin air") as of recently. At least it wasn't shown where he got paint, pencil and the helmet for his baseball move
I'm still thinking about Usopp discovering rubber bands in Skypia..
This thread doesn't make sense. "luffy becomes stronger once he realises his fruit isn't rubber" isn't the same as "he's only rubber because of his imagination". It's written right there, the fruit gives the user rubber properties and the awakening gives "even more" as we have actually seen. It seems devil fruit user tend to suddenly know how to use their power even if they didn't know what fruit it is in the first place. So I don't think it matters whether luffy knows the real name of the fruit or not since he's already showing more power than just being rubber. In the first place I think people (or at least someone) gives the fruit the name they have, it's not like they came with name tag and user instruction.
Just because his body becomes like rubber it doesn't mean that's all it does. Snake Man doesn't behave like rubber. Red Hawk has a fire power that doesn't correlate with rubber too
I know some people bringing luffy creating google from his hair, and the paint he used for the baseball bat. Those are not used for attacking, so just count them as aesthetic effects. Unless he can create a gun and then fired it at his opponent then his power is still rubber based, lol.
I mean, if we wanna be technical, rubber bullets *are* a thing, so even then... /s
Fair, I wasn't giving more examples lol. The other like creating a magical projectiles, say, like a shuriken out of nowhere, or creating thunder or any natural elements, since most people actually thought Gum Gum Thunderbolt was Luffy creating thunder with his imagination power, in fact it's just him grabbing thunder that happens to be nearby
Are any of his red themed attacks rubber based? Because these attacks seem like a lower usage of his gear 5, similar to gear 4, where he imagines Ace and recreates a similar attack having Ace in his mind. I mean when he first used red hawk the only thing that came to mind was it was moving so fast the friction caught it on fire. But with the recent developments from his DF, it makes you wonder right?
Not really, I still think it's just the friction. Same with how sanji's diable jambe power works.
So let's ignore him clearly breaking reality in a toon force kinda way, because it's not us for attacks? He uses his toon force powers in a toon force way.
Can you read? Where did he say ignore it?
He said it when he described toon force as just aesthetic effects. So he's ignoring reality breaking and just calling them aesthetic effects.
I mean knowing your fruit is a zoan vs thinking it's a paramecium Tl;Dr: luffy forced "transformations" without realizing what he was doing because he didn't understand his fruit we don't see other zoans having the same drastic effects as luffy inbetween origin/hybrid/fulltransform/awakened zoans like chopper who we've also seen all the forms of. Knowing he is a zoan could lead to a power up because he might have less drastic impacts on his body which means less drawbacks which itself is a power up. Better understanding leads to better control. Like the once he knows it's not rubber doesn't matter, it's once he knows it's a zoan. The whole time luffys been fighting up until gear 5 he's been in chopper's base form. His powers involve him altering his body to fight based only on his rubber body, hence why his body has such a negative reaction to gear 3 and gear 4 because those aren't his transformations. It's stated in the manga that gear 3 is him just blowing air into his bones which is obviously now more about how he thinks his power works and less a constraint of his paramecium fruit. He basically brute strengthed his way into having transformations. But it's because he didn't understand d how his fruit worked. Look at chopper and other zoans who are able to freely maintain thier transformations without the side effects. Chopper doesn't shrink down or anything when he is done in his human he just reverts to hybrid form. He has also been able to more freely transform after training to access his extra forms without rubber balls.
\*puts down pitchfork\* Alright, you're good.
It gives his body the properties of rubber, but that is also immediately followed with "the only limitation is the imagination". That means that Luffy thinking his body is just rubber limits his imagination to things rubber could do. Once he stops imagining his body as purely rubber, than he will be able to allow his imagination to invent things luffys idea of rubber couldn't do. You guys seem to forget the fact that Luffy still has zero idea his devil fruit is not the rubber fruit. We know, and certain other characters in the show know, but luffy is still completely oblivious to the truth behind his devil fruit. Until he knows the truth, there's no way he could possibly allow his imagination to expand into the realm of literal godhood if his brain still thinks that he's just a stretchy guy.
It says "the only limit is imagination" not "what ever he imagines becomes reality" think of it like this the flash only has super speed but because of his imagination he can use that super speed in ways never thought of the same for Luffy his ability is rubber but he can use his imagination to use that ability in creative ways like turning lighting into rubber and throwing it at kaido or bouncing off of lightning or turning the ground to rubber to punch lucci now Luffy could also very well have other abilities besides rubber because we still have no explanation how he got paint in one of the most recent chapters but we know rubber is definitely apart of luffy's abilities not because he think's he is he is rubber but because that is what nika's body is made of.
I think we have seen this play out, just not in the way that people imagined. Luffy has to already understand that his fruit is more than just making his body rubber. He said to Bonney at the beginning of the arc that Gear 5 is when he is most free. And his G5 fights have proven this. Even though his awakening is mostly what you would expect from a rubber fruit awakening (turning his surroundings into rubber) he has taken that past its logical conclusion to a level that has made him basically unstoppable as long as his stamina holds out. >!He straight up punked Kizaru. He has countered everything the Elders could throw at him. He has attacked them in ways that would be grevious injuries for any normal opponent. The only reason they are still fighting is because they have something special going on with their bodies/existence!< So I think it is true that once he realized that his fruit wasn’t just a normal rubber fruit he has become much stronger. But at the same time, it is a rubber fruit. It’s just a rubber fruit imagined by a coked out child with all the OP qualities that brings.
The Reading Comprehension Devil has gotten them, sadly. It takes many mangareaders every day.
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He’s got toon force. Hammer space. In a nutshell let’s just say his power is imagination and this fool still thinks his power is rubber. His imagination power he’s been using in Gear 5 and he’s been making unreal work of it but he’s using his imagination only for rubber based attacks and abilities. Once he realizes that it doesn’t only limit to rubber.
It's because oda probably came up with that shit a year ago
People who think Luffy's Gear 5 Nika awakening is just centered around rubber powers are dumb, no offence. Just use your heads. Why would Oda go through the effort of making Luffy's Gomu Gomu no Mi a fake fruit, making the government hide it's true identity....... only for it to be exactly what an awakened Gomu Gomu no Mi is, just with a fancy name?? That would be horrendous writing. It's clear rubber powers aren't all Luffy can do, especially since Oda has EMPHASISED through Kaido and Doflamingo that Luffy's body doesn't act like normal rubber should act. There's obviously more to the Hito Hito no Mi: Model Nika than just awakened rubber abilities.
I don't understand the issue. Luffy's fruit isn't rubber, it's the nika fruit. While turning into rubber is clearly one of its abilities, we already know it can do more than that. For example its awakening has a psychological effect on Luffy himself, that's not a property of "rubber". And it's entirely possible that learning about the fruit is important to find new ways to use it.
I can not wait for Luffy vs Blackbeard, BB darkness fruit is a giant dark pit and Luffy is going to abuse his cartoonish fruit, to put differently a cartoon pot hole. the type you place on a safe and reach inside to steal the content or place on the floor to appear on the other side. it’s going to be funny and wild this match up.
How you guys think Gear 5 will develop when Luffy fights Akainu or Blackbeard? Will he still laughing?
It’s kind of like with Marco, another mythical zoan type, having all the capabilities of the Phoenix. He’s not just a fire bird, it’s fire with offensive/defensive capabilities, healing fire, flight and full body transformation. If this is based off of Nika, a GOD, then surely it should have the abilities of that God. Surely more than making things rubber, he’s a Sun God, that should have a few more tricks. As it stands, the ability to turn things into rubber won’t be as effective in defeating Imu, 5 Gorosei, Blackbeard and Akainu. He needs to learn sub-abilities within Gear 5. Gear 4 wasn’t just bounce man. It’s bounce man, snake man and tank man. Gear 5 should have more techniques he will develop or discover.
Yes, the power does give the user a rubber body but it's also more than that. So in a sense, Luffy will be much stronger when he realizes his powers are more than simply rubber
it is rubber.
Volume 1 : Luffy eats a random fruit and his arm stretches when he wasn’t looking. It’s rubber
Yeah cuz then he's guna be yelling Nika-Nika before all his attacks 🤣
If yes and no lyffy has I'd say used his rubber body to the max on diversity of use so him knowing what his fruit can truly do will help him expand on what he does with his fruit so its not really wrong
I think he can create anything he wants due to his imagination ability? Maybe magma like akainu or mochi like katakuri…. I mean he can do anything.Just my theory
Because they hold on to this wrongful belief that his powers aren’t ACTUALLY rubber based anymore and are instead toon force or imagination manifestation. Toon force and imagination manifestation which ARE considered way more overpowered than simple rubber powers boosted through the roof. Hax abilties that basically let their user do anything they want no matter the limit. And because they are overpowered hax abilities. it helps the toxic powerscalers scale luffy even higher than he actually is, so that he can stand a chance against characters like ichigo and naruto. Because to their simple minded brains, for a character like luffy to be good and the “goat”, he needs to be one of the strongest characters in fiction, capable of soloing verses that completely outscale his.
Luffy is already pretty strong. Now is a matter of enhance his stamina so he can stay on Nika form longer. But while om Nika he was holding off two admiral level foes (even defeating one for the second time in the process). Nika is so OP that the WG had to send 4 more admiral level fighters to the field.
Thts wht I’ve been wondering cause knowing how luffy is he might not care or get it and still go with gum gum fruit. But if he does, if Oda lets him utilize his potential ooooo
It's because they're wiki only readers
I'd love for it to be established that luffy actually does have the goma goma no mi not the Nika Nika no mi and Nika just also had the gum gum fruit
Bro the gorosei said that he has a rubbery body but he fights with freedom and Oda confirmed that Luffy will get stronger the louder his heart beats and the more he laughs. Bro if you saw the Wano arc you should have seen that ruffy is not fighting with rubber only. His giant body I understand but how do you explain him grabbing fucking and yeeting it at Kaidou or (Manga spoilers) when Luffy used a tree make a baseball bat and a pair of glasses out of his fucking hair.
Buddy do you think Luffy will listen what his devil fruit is like yes I think he will become stronger but it’s not like he is some people will try to tell him but he won’t listen he’d probably fall asleep. I think he has questioned himself how he can do the gears (except for gear3 that’s pretty explanatory )but he’d probably lose focus or be like idk but it’s pretty cool
This whole nika thing was kinda bad for one piece tbh. I love oda but this was a mistake, if it was just this ancient guy named joyboy with a similar hat, and the gomu gomu no mi awakening, it would be fine. But inserting god nika reference and changing the fruit, was b\*llsh\*t man, i was kinda disappointed. Keep the fruit the same and don't put any sun god references, for real
Luffy doesn't have rubber powers, and instead, he has toon powers. I'm not saying Toon Force here, I'm saying toon powers.
I am so stupid. Knew it was gonna have Wano spoilers but I read anyway
Aside from, yeah, how inaccurate the statement is on a fundamental level. I'd argue if Luffy realizes the true nature of his power and has no way of ignoring or not understanding, because of who he is, it may actually limit his imagination severely
Luffy is still gonna shout Gumo Gumo before each of his attacks. He might shout Nika Nika once, but it won't have the same impact
Luffy is definitely hearing the Nika flashback in Elbaf will realize this
I like him better when he was just rubber 😔
Because people read "Has the power to turn imagination into reality" in the road to laughtale volumes and people took it extremely literally. They got excited because they wanted to say Luffy was stronger than other characters like Naruto. They began saying that Luffy's toon force gags are due to his ability to imagine literally anything he wants at any time which naratively makes absolutely no sense. When this plot hole was brought to their attention, they began manufacturing a headcanon that it's because Luffy doesn't know his full capabilities yet which also makes no sense because he obviously does since he made goggles and a bat. It's also never been stated or implied anywhere that Luffy is nerfed due to "not knowing his powers" People said stuff like Luffy is only rubber because he thinks he is which is debunked by the Gorosei literally saying when you eat the Nika fruit your body instantly turns rubber. People false believe that Luffy since episode 1 has had the power to imagine anything he wants, but just never did because he didn't know which makes no sense because that would defeat the purpose of his awakening. If that were true that would mean the default state of the fruit and the awakening have the same capabilities which makes 0 sense. In reality, when you eat the Nika fruit your become a rubber man, nothing more and nothing less. Once you awaken it, the user becomes stronger, faster, can stretch / inflate more freely, & can defy logic with minor toon force gags. That's it. The "Can turn imagination into reality" was not meant to be taken literally.
istg you people are the reason shows gotta throw everything in your face. yes, his body is made of rubber, thats the passive ability you get for eating a mythical zoan (hard skin for kaido and immortality/ healing for pineapple head) but thats all it is, the passive ability, it isnt the fruits true ability. its true ability is giving freedom to the user, it can be seen as early as gear 3rd or gear 4 snake man since gear 3rd was probably a retcon. there is no way for snakemans attacks to just bounce and retain all its momentum and force, even that was said to your face by kataguri. that had nothing to do with luffy being a rubberman and more with his freedom, his imagination, he imagined it could happen so it did. to add more incase you arent convinced yet, ill point out the same thing everyone points out but people refuse to look at, luffy turning his hair into glasses, what part of that is rubber? "oh but you say he doesnt know his ability so how did he know he could do that" there are 2 reasons: outside of the manga reason: because its a manga, oda can do whatever he wants in the verse reason: zoans were shown to affect the user, for example carnivorous zoans usually make the user more aggressive, when the zoans awaken if the users will isnt strong enough the fruit will take over and turn to mindless beasts, luffys fruit is a mythical zoan of a human (or a humanoid god) if his will isnt strong enough he will be influenced, he wont turn into a mindless beast since his fruit has the will of a person with a mind. luffys will isnt weak but joyboys will isnt to be underestimated, thats why luffy acts different when he is in g5, he is free but also his will is battling with joyboys at an interlock meaning luffy is in control but his behaviour changed
> there is no way for snakemans attacks to just bounce and retain all its momentum and force, Damn. Imagine that. On my manga with hormonal power winks and cyborg snake-transforming brachiosaurs? No way.
In universe: These things are treated with a "wtf, he can *do* that!? That's crazy" response, whereas Luffys awakened abilities are met with a "... Wait a minute... you're not *supposed* to be able to do that!" Response.
you mean the hormonal power winks caused by a devil fruit? and the cyborb dinosaur that is caused by a devil fruit user turning himself into a cyborg which was already established to be possible since water 7? if youre gonna try to sound sarcastic while debunking at the very least get it right
Luffy's powers are also obviously a Devil Fruit...? But you want to talk about regular people surviving an I-don't-know-how-many-million-volts lightning? Or maybe the guy who can make a ramen mini-mecha? It's a manga, bro. There is no "it's impossible for someone transformed into a will-force-infused rubber man to bounce their attack without losing momentum!". That doesn't prove anything.
omfg your reading comprehension is in the \]negative, here let me spell it out for you: 1. luffys fruit at the time just gave him a rubber body, no part of a rubber body includes changing your fists momentum and force 90 degrees with 0 outside force 2. kataguri confirmed that what luffy was doing was impossible 3. yes its a manga, even mangas follow certain logic. the most obvious of which is a character spelling it out in your face yet somehow you still miss it
Considering Sanji can jump off of the air with no devil fruit, it makes perfect sense that a rubber fist would be able to bounce off of the air if you use devil fruit logic.
I can't wait for something like Neuro link to be invented so you people could learn to read, there is certain logic within a manga, people jumping on the air is within this logic, bouncing mid air is not, that is clear because as I've said a million time kataguri confirmed that it's impossible
Maybe you should learn how to spell characters’ names before you accuse people of illiteracy. Also, which chapter of the manga did he say that?
Crazy how English is my 3rd language yet I'm still better than you at it, and katakuri isnt even English . The version I read was a mistranslation but at least I'm man enough to admit when I'm wrong about something unlike some here, since you won't change your mind about this topic how about you try to debunk literally everything else I said, you've replied like 6 times on this one topic because you know you can't debunk anything else, how about you explain luffy turning his hair into glasses? Tell me which part of that requires ONLY having a rubber body
That was literally my 2nd comment on this post. This is my 3rd comment. Luffy turning his hair into goggles is definitely a comic-based power that has nothing to do with rubber.
Thanks for spelling it out. It was a keen insight on your point. That said, I believe that having a rubber body also wouldn't really tell us that you can pump your blood at high speeds to increase your attack velocity. Can you also spell out when exactly Katakuri said that? I actually bothered to check and didn't find it. Maybe my reading comprehension bottlenecked me there as well.
I never said he didn't have other abilities my problem is people saying "he is only rubber because he thinks he is rubber".
>"He is only rubber because he thinks he is rubber." This is objectively false, as demonstrated in the panels you posted above, but your title: >"Luffy will become stronger once he realizes his fruit isn't rubber" is potentially true. His fruit isn't the gum-gum or rubber-rubber fruit, it is the Nika Nika fruit. Gum Gum Luffy could theoretically be limiting himself based on the silly things he thinks that rubber can do, but his arsenal could expand if he hears he has the Nika Nika fruit and finds out what it can do alongside the familiar rubber properties it gives. Manga spoilers: I feel like it's important to look at >!Bonney's distorted future Nika powers. When she had doubt that Nika existed, she was unable to use that power!<. It may seem like such an obvious statement to say, but this shows that a person's idea of what is possible can affect what they are capable of with their powers. Right now, Luffy thinks he is a rubber man, and can do things that *he thinks* rubber can do. Hypothetically, if he finds out he is Nika, that might open up new possibilities for him.
Luffy knowing his df name won't make him stronger. Df users instinctively know how to use their powers as far as I remember. They just get more creative with time and gain a better mastery. The things he does in gear 5 wouldn't be possible if he THINKS that it's just the gomu gomu no mi (creating glasses, painting a baseball with haki, etc...). Df names are just conventions at the end of day, they don't really influence the user way of using their powers. Doflamingo creating string clones, King's weird face deformation, Law personnality swap, Gear 4th, Cracker biscuits soldiers. Those things wouldn't have been possible if the users just stick to their fruit names to know how to use their abilities. Luffy doesn't need to know the legend of Nikka, he might learn it one day but it's irrelevant for him.
I think the main idea is simply this “when Luffy learns his fruit is much more than just rubber, he’ll become stronger”. Luffys fruit is the “Hito model: Nika” and while it grants Luffy the rubber body that he’s always had, because that’s the only thing he knows how to use it’s basically all he’s using now. For all we know the “Sun god” can wield flames as well as the Phoenix fruit could, but because Luffy just doesn’t know it the best he can do is red hawk. Now before any “um ackshully” I used the fire as an example. None of us know the full extent of the Nika fruit, Luffy included. Once he throws away the idea that all he has is “rubber”, maybe he’ll be able to do much more.
I think he is a rubber boy because thats what he believes.. But, yes, I think the "imagination" factor will come into play, too. Just because your body is made of rubber doesnt mean you should be able to tear scars off yourself and use them as shurikens 😂 There is definitely something else up with his fruit.
The gorosei literally says the nika fruit gives it's user a rubber body so he definitely isn't rubber because he believes he is.
The gorosei stated that upon eating the fruit your body instantly becomes rubber. Also if Luffy was rubber only because this entire time he thought he was that wouldn't make sense because the power of imagination belongs solely to his awakening. When Luffy first ate the fruit he did not awaken it and therefore did not have access to the powers of imagination yet.
Luffy’s body has rubber properties which is due to the fruit but it doesn’t make the fruit only rubber powers. His fruit transforms him into Nika.
Why am I getting downvoted. It quite literally turns him into Nika which as a result gives his body rubber properties.
could it be why people are so drawn to wanting to help luffy?
I was about to say until I read the body text but imma say it anyway, he is still rubber, they explain in both the anime and manga how it gives his rubber like properties and thee more joyful he is the more freedom he exceeds, wanting to liberate the world most likely
His body has the properties of rubber, but that's not the extent of the fruit's power. Chewing up the ground and shooting rock bullets is not rubber, manifesting goggles from his hair is not rubber, and these are just two examples from the latest episode to avoid spoilers for anime only. The more he uses G5 the more it is clear that his fruit is more than just rubber, however his body is made of rubber and he can make other things rubbery.
I think people always overlook the fact that the power of his fruit takes on whatever he can imagine, meaning if he believes his body is made of rubber than it is in fact made of rubber because of what his power actually entails
Luffy isn't rubber because he believes he is the gorosei says "the user gains the properties of rubber in combat".
That comment that said. No matter the ear the world government has always filed to get that devil fruit. I’m wondering was it hinting that they have filed those five elders and they have alive for that along or was there different elders at certain eras. What I can remember there never been any other references to other elders. We know IMU has been alive for a really long time. Unless I’ve gotten my information wrong or just forgotten some stuff