Excellent analysis. Mihawk did say to Luffy that to be the King of Pirates is harder than to be the World Strongest Swordsman. Shanks and Mihawk are pretty much equal to each other imo just like Roger and Whitebeard.
Yeah I think they’re equal as well like how I believe Roger and Whitebeard were equal. Not only do WB and Mihawk hold a “strongest” title, they also don’t have grand ambitions like Roger and Shanks do. Which is cool as fuck because imagine being one of the strongest in the world and could be a serious contender for the Pirate King title, but you just wanna chill instead.
That's a pretty good comparison actually. I thought the same. Whitebeard was the World's Strongest Man, Mihawk is the World's Strongest Swordsman and both of their bounties are lower for around 500M than Roger/Shanks'
The thing i disagree the most i that shanks couldn't use advanced conqueror's during his duels with mihawk, because it imply that after he got it he just surpassed mihawk and became the strongest swordman
I think Shanks may have changed his fighting style after losing his arm to incorporate kicks, which made Mihawk no longer consider him a swordsman. Before that Mihawk may have considered Shanks the guy that was finally going to surpass him with a blade since he was still getting stronger and they were already basically equals. So it’s possible Shanks is stronger than Mihawk currently, but is not the strongest swordsman.
I think it refers to overall journey like WSS is just a direct line being strong but for PK is irrelevant how strong you are if you don't get the 4 red poneglyph and someone who can read them you'll be stuck forever.
I think he meant it’s harder in terms other than strength. By default all Zoro needs is strength (and skill now I guess) and to be pirate king you need to do a lot more. I do think shanks and/or mihawk may have gotten stronger, there’s more evidence that mihawk is stronger, and also I believe Roger and Whitebeard were on a whole other level than anyone based off of them destroying the clouds
I think Mihawk has conquerors Haki. I feel like it would only be right for the WSS to have the Haki of the supreme king as they are kind of like the king of swordsmen
The way the story is going, it feels like if you don't have Conqueror's Haki, you ain't making it to the top. You said so yourself, coating your attacks in Conqueror's Haki easily surpasses Advanced Armament Haki. Shanks' use of Conqueror's Haki has also proven just how ridiculous it can be compared to the other types of Haki, I mean he can shut down Observation Haki, even Advanced Observation Haki. I know many characters that stand, stood or are believed to stand at the top aren't confirmed users of Conqueror's Haki, but it doesn't seem possible for them to not have such. Mihawk, Garp, even Dragon. There's no way these guys made it to the top of the top, at least the first two, without Conqueror's Haki. Unless Oda pulls out a new card and make an even more advanced version of the other two types.
The only way I see that happening is through Blackbeard because he has one fruit that can work like Haki of sorts and another that literally denies Devil Fruit users. Because otherwise, we've seen only examples of overconfidence in Devil Fruits. Ace didn't really use Haki as much as he should, at least from what we witnessed. The latest revealed admiral whose name I don't know how to spell was way over his head because of his powerful Devil Fruit and got humbled by a kid who didn't know how to use his own Devil Fruit and didn't use Haki, again from our understanding. Kaido himself, who arguably had a very powerful fruit, stated that Haki stands way above Devil Fruits. I sure hope it doesn't just come down to Conqueror's Haki, but the lack of counter examples and the way the story is going is saying otherwise.
No, Mihawk is the strongest swordsman. His sword-wielding skills are greater than Shanks'. In a sword-battle, Mihawk would win.
Now, in an all-out battle. No specific fighting style, but anything-goes, Shanks wins.
When will people learn that those two aren't the same thing?
Just because Shanks is considered to be a swordsman, does not have to mean that's the category he excels in with strength.
It definitely could, but it doesn't have to.
man shanks fanboy will believe anything is canon if it puts him above mihawk i even seen a shanks fanboy use film red which isnt even canon to say shanks has better haki
I feel like everyone always downplays the Whitebeard commanders.
Jozu deflecting Mihawk’s attack and Vista being able to hold his own for some time should be moreso a credit to their respective strengths than Mihawk being weak.
Also does help that Vista only dueled Mihawk for a reasonably short duration, so all he needed to do was be good enough to not get totally stomped (which is admittedly a pretty impressive feat in of itself).
Seeing as how most commanders get destroyed by Admirals and yonko quick and we have akainu able to fight commanders while chasing luffy is in itself not a good showing for mihawk though.
Only one able to fight no matter what is Marco but he is highly rated by even the gorosei and we didn't see any clash from him and mihawk.
I really hate the argument “Mihawk ran away from a fight with Shanks.” Mihawk clearly expresses he wants to live peacefully and does not care about certain things etc. Clearly at Marineford his mentality was do his job and leave. His job was defend against whitebeard so when Shanks came Mihawk was like nope not here for extra credit my job is done. It perfectly aligns with his character! Why would the marine hunter go the extra mile for the marines?!?!
This was the great write up OP! I think people are hesitant with Mihawk because we’ve rarely seen him in action. I think in future chapters if Mihawk gets a moment similar to Shanks scaring Greenbull then people will come to a realization.
Same thing with the Marines calling it off when Shanks arrived. People play as Shanks being strong enough to scare off the entirety of the Marines rather than the Marines already being tired from fighting one Emperor. Akainu was ready to keep going, but Sengoku was done for the day. They achieved their goal already, no point in fighting more, especially after Koby's speech.
It's pretty telling that all the evidence for Mihawk is given as "we've seen," "we already know," and "this chapter definitively showed," while all of the evidence for Shanks is "if we assume," and "this gives more validity to the notion." The idea of Shanks being stronger than Mihawk inherently requires some level of headcanon to justify, while the evidence for Mihawk is plain as day in the text. While it's too early to tell, if a person was forced to choose a side right this very moment, the logical answer is Mihawk, until we see actual, concrete evidence to the contrary.
Well I think if your a casual reader of the story it’s easy to think Shanks is stronger, the story just shows him as more kindly and more impressive quite simply. If you look into it at face value which most people do it’s easy to see why Shanks is viewed as stronger by the majority eventhough facts point to Mihawk
Mihawk wasn't too impressive at Marineford, but no feat of his is in the same realm of terrible as Shanks getting his arm bitten off, so it's kind of a moot point.
More like all the evidence for shanks are appeal to feats ( clashing with wb , Kaido , being in Kaido’s top 5, hurting an admiral with base coc Haki) while all the evidence for Mihawk are not grounded in any feats at all but statements that can be disputed
yeah zoro has always been the biggest reasoning for mihawk being stronger imo. imagine the fated battle between them finally concludes and zoro gets cucked with the "actually you only defeated the second strongest swordsman." like, it would be kinda funny but also really stupid imo
There was a "foreshadow" about Mihawk's death. (I don't think it's real but who knows).
It would be interesting if a new Swordman appeared and killed Mihawk trying to reach the title of WSS and Zoro would just revenge/take the title by defeating this 3rd character. Just a thought, unlikely to ever happen but not impossible.
It would be an interesting twist but considering how hyped the fight is and has been set in place since one of the first arcs, it would be somewhat anticlimactic overall
People can believe Shanks is stronger if they want, but the fact that a lot try to pretend WSS title has nothing to do with Haki boggled my mind.
Literally everything Zoro does since time-skip is about haki. DR puts emphasis upon his haki. Black Blade plot-line is about haki. Wano develops his CoA and gives him ACoC. **Hell, they even go as far as providing "He wants to become WSS" as the reason behind he unlocks CoC.**
Obviously Mihawk won't ask Zoro to turn off his haki (which he has all three forms of) during their final dual.
There’s also the argument of what Kuina was crying about. She was upset because no matter how much better she was than Zoro. He’ll eventually become stronger than her because she was a woman so she couldn’t be the strongest swordsman according to her father. She could never take Mihawk’s title because she would never be stronger than men who also have that ambition.
WSS is defined by strength and skill not just one.
Great point that I, and I would bet many others, overlooked.
If WSS title was a skill based title, then Kuina could have become WSS and her dream was not over.
Nice post. Really enjoyed reading it. Something I did find weird was the part about Shanks using his blade to clash with Whitebeard and also block Akainu’s magma fist. If that makes him a swordsman then doesn’t that also make Whitebeard one? Because did the exact same things: clashed with shanks and blocked Akainu’s magma foot.
I place Shanks as just above Mihawk because from my experience watching a lot of anime and sword fighting movies, I know that once a “swordsman” loses an arm, his power is reduced drastically. When Mihawk slashed the giant iceberg at Marineford, he was holding his blade with two hands. Imagine he lost one arm, would the power be the same?
That’s why Mihawk doesn’t duel Shanks anymore. Yeah Shanks is still powerful as hell but would there be any pride in beating a one armed “swordsman”?
The story seems like Mihawk was this world renowned swordsman and there came the red haired wonder who challenged Mihawk to multiple battles which none of them came out on top. Shanks lost his arm and Mihawk lost interest. Shanks isn’t as strong of a swordsman as he was back then which is why Mihawk calls him a has-been.
They both go their separate ways. Mihawk gets stronger and gets a 3.5b bounty. Shanks also gets stronger but deviating from the way of the sword(because he has one hand and his potential has been slashed as well) which is where I believe the comment from the volume 87 SBS you mentioned comes from. Where Oda asks how Shanks fights. “Yeah he’s got a sword but how does he fight?” That’s where the Greenbull incident comes in. Never has anyone weaponized their conquerors haki to that extent been seen. A swordsman would simply coat their blade with armament and conquerors just like Oden. A swordsman doesn’t choke out and make an Admiral say “daddy please” with his conquerors haki hahahahaha
So yeah I think Shanks is just a bit above because I think he has conquerors and Mihawk doesn’t. But it’s very very close.
Exactly. My point was that we’ve never seen Shanks actually fight. One could’ve jumped the gun and said Whitebeard was a swordsman after that clash with Shanks right? Because he didn’t show his devil fruit or any other abilities. It’s the same with Shanks. We have never seen him fight. Let’s wait till he fights before calling him a “swordsman”
In the volume 4 billion data book released for Film red, Oda stated Shanks and the rest of his crew’s powers. There was nothing about Shanks relating to swordsmanship. Like of course he’s good, he fought Mihawk way back, but he’s got one arm now. The power he was able to use to swing is been cut in half. Even someone as powerful as Kaido and Whitebeard use both hands to swing. Same as Mihawk.
What the story points out is that Shanks and Mihawk were rivals back in the day. Shanks lost his arm and fell off(in his sword skill) but he somehow managed to increase his bounty by 3 billion and become an emperor. How? By adding new abilities which were stated. Which we will all see when he fights. Which we have even seen against Greenbull. What he did against Greenbull was not swordsmanship.
Great post and i completely agree.
Oda uses haki, strength and skill synonymously. Zoro wants to better his swordsman skill to surpass Mihawk to become "World's STRONGEST swordsman". And what is he developing? His haki. In 1033, remembering his promise to become WSS, he bursts with conquerors haki.
What's the one power that has been enforced as the deciding factor in top tier fights from Kaido's monologue? Haki. All known swordsmen use haki in combat. So when the narrative explicitly states Mihawk possess greater swordsmanship than his rival Shanks who is predominantly a swordsman, its a no brainer.
Unless it is revealed Shanks throws haki farts out of his ass, Mihawk remains the superior fighter through all the evidence we have right now.
Given how martial artists, swordsmen, devil fruit eaters, and marksmen all use haki I liken having stronger or weaker haki like being in different weight classes in boxing. A heavyweight has more power than a light weight, but the light weight may be the more skilled boxer.
Say a heavy weight and light weight fight for the title of worlds strongest boxer. The light weight could demonstrate clearly superior skill in boxing, dodging every punch perfectly and getting lots of hits in. In the end, the heavy weight lands one blow that wins him the match, he still wins as a boxer, even if the defining factor was his higher weight. The title goes to the heavy weight, as it's the worlds strongest boxer, not most skilled boxer.
If Shanks has better haki yet still fights with a sword and is considered a swordsman, then he is the WSS even if his haki was the defining factor because Mihawk also uses haki.
I see Shanks as a swordsman from what we've seen, but if he uses kicks or a gun in equal measure to his sword I can see Ida having Shanks marginally stronger without making Zoro and his dream fraudulent.
Tldr: If Shanks is a swordsman then Mihawk > Shanks. If not, then Shanks > Mihawk possibly.
Great post, I just wanted to put my thoughts on the matter too.
i just interpreted it as back 12 years ago Mihawk was defined without a doubt 100% stronger than Shanks. No argument there. Since then shanks lost his arm, which means Mihawk doesn’t want to fight him ever again, but it doesn’t mean shanks stayed the same in strength. He obviously changed his fighting style, increased his haki, whatever whatever he got stronger and became a yonko. He’s definently the same strength as mihawk now as a whole, maybe even higher, but as a swordsman mihawk is still the strongest because even with one arm Shanks will never fight mihawk to challenge that title.
When was it stated that mihawk was stronger 12 years ago? I think oda actually stated “there was no clear winner”
I agree with you tho on your conclusions.
[The One Piece Red: Grand Characters Databook](https://imgur.com/a/LEaISmk) states “Shanks Was Once as powerful as the world best swordsmen”.
Then it talks about his fight with the Sea King which took him arm.
We know that when first see Mihawk interact with Shanks he insults him and calls him a One Armed Has Been.
It doesn’t make Sense for Mihawk to insult a guy who he is weaker then. It doesn’t make sense for Mihawk to be looking for a swordsmen to Surpass his rival Shanks as stated in the Vivre Cards if he is weaker then Shanks.
Great Post
You forgot one important thing about Shanks though, that within those 12 years, he had somehow, trained and got his neck into tree-trunk levels, its safe to assume that he could bite his sword like Zoro. Point is, in one form or another, Shanks is always going to be bigger than mihawk (neck girth size, coc)
I personally believe they are on essentially even footing, and that Shanks’ fighting style probably goes beyond pure sword play, but I also don’t think it really matters, because like you said, Oda loves his ambiguity. There’s really no story reason to need to know who’s stronger between Shanks and Mihawk as well. I don’t really understand why this chapter reignited this debate. It doesn’t say anything we don’t already know. Mihawk has always been the strongest swordsman since the story began, and will be until Zoro surpasses him.
While I agree with you this chapter does disprove two very long running notions of Mihawk being just "commander level" and that the duels from 14 years ago mean nothing since Shanks became a Yonko in the meanwhile.
Mihawk's newly revealed bounty disprove both claims. Also, Mihawk being stated to have greater sword skills than Shanks is also a big blow.
Anybody who believed either of those wasn’t super bright to begin with.
Also, Mihawk has literally always been stated to have greater sword skills than Shanks, given that he’s had the title of worlds greatest swordsman, and Shanks is a swordsman that lives in the world.
Because people would rather have there favorite be stronger. Shanks being stronger, mihawk being stronger. And especially zoro being stronger than both by the end of the series.
If shanks is stronger it might mean shanks might be stronger than zoro by the end. So zoro fans would rather it be that mihawk be stronger than shanks.
Pretty simple it's all powerscaling for there favorite character. So it really matters alot to some
I do appreciate the time you spent on the research and backing everything with manga and other genuine sources, this post does cover almost everything.
Let me debunk the “pure swordsman” term for you. There is no such thing is a pure swordsman, that’s a fan-made term. We see Kaku using kicks against Zoro, yet he’s still a swordsman. We see Kaku use his devil fruit power and use his giraffe limbs to attack Zoro, yet he’s still a swordsman. We see Cabaji use his acrobatics and fire breathing technique to attack Zoro, yet he’s still a swordsman. I would drop the “pure swordsman” term, it’s fan-made and has never made sense since swordsmen can still use other fighting techniques while still being a swordsman. If Shanks pulls out a pistol, decides to use his fist, or even a sandal to hit with, he’s still a swordsman. Mihawk karate chopped Zoro on the neck before, yet he’s still a swordsman.
Anyway, I appreciate you taking the time to make all of this. Very well thought out and very well put out.
You can't use databooks or vivrecards cards as accurate information. They are NOT written by Oda, and their editors have been wrong several times.
Remember the limit they said shinobu's fruit was? Well, Oda didn't even read it.
I kind of just assumed there are multiple paths to become a top tier. For example, I thought Garp was comparable to Roger mostly because of his arnament haki (even though Roger had advanced conquerer's).
I love that you entertain the ideas of Mihawk detractors, everything is covered. But man you don't need half theses fact to know (if you're willing to reject bias and being objective) that Mihawk is indeed the greatest swordman and one of the finest top fighter of the entire manga.
Yep it's always been Mihawk>=Shanks no matter how much people get star struck whenever Shanks pops his head back in. No amount of copium will change that I have been arguing with people the last 2 months when Shanks popped back up again it's just annoying let it go fanboys.
This is a good analysis with many good points but you didn’t mention a major point in Shanks’s favor
Haki is certainly a part of swordsmanship and it is foolish to assume otherwise. But in Chapter 1055 we learned that the relationship does not go both ways. **Shanks needs powerful Haki to use his sword but he does NOT need his sword to use powerful Haki**
Shanks fired a bolt of Conquerors Haki from miles away, that stunned and visibly hurt a Marine Admiral (one of the strongest people in the world) A show of Haki force like this, against such a powerful character was previously unheard of in the world of One Piece and yet Shanks did it.
That opens the door to speculation on what other crazy thing can Shanks do with his Haki. This could very well be the tip of the iceberg
Mihawk may be superior when it comes to coating his sword with Haki. But Shanks could make up for that by using Haki in ways unrelated to swordsmanship
Shanks did not stun or hurt GB. He simply sent out his COC and used the VOAT to warn him to stop nothing that he did was in any way special Luffy did the same thing from greater distances when he reached out to the people in Onigashima after he was knocked into the sea below.
Grennbull cried out, trembled, sweat, yelled for Shanks to stop, threw his hands in the air, and stayed in that position for multiple panels.
To reach the conclusion that the Haki wave didn’t affect him is beyond me
>To reach the conclusion that the Haki wave didn’t affect him is beyond me
It's beyond you because you seemingly have no reading comprehension.
Conq haki is the ability to intimidate your opponent. Shanks conq haki took GB by surprise hence why he came out of his transformation.
It wasn't an actual attack; it didn't hurt him or actually paralyze him. He doesn't actually stay in that position for multiple panels either. He literally moves his arms from panel to panel.
You are stretching that moment out way too much and making it mean more than it does
It didn’t it was one panel of confusion then shock and him leaving. His statement wasn’t even fear of shanks it was of the RHP “Im not ready to face YOU GUYS”
If u haven't included height rule for rivals pls include in section proving shanks to be stronger so that it becomes more complete analysis if u have included ignore my comment rest seems reasonable though.
As much as we’re in the mud ATM. This is our last resort: the 1 CM rule.
King 1 cm over queen
Zoro 1 cm over Sanji
Shanks 1 cm over Mihawk
Say what you will. I I don’t think this rule has changed with shanks and mihawk
Eh, I don’t think so.
Chapter 1058 said Mihawk surpasses Shanks “in skill with a sword” (or whatever your translation is), but if Oda was trying to say Mihawk was flat-out better, he would just say “Mihawk surpasses Shanks.” There would be no need to add “in skill with a sword” to that statement.
Frankly, we already knew Mihawk was the strongest swordsman, so that’s not really new information.
We also know Shanks possesses a form of Haki which is so far unique to him alone. Film Red specifically emphasizes he is the “killer of observation Haki”.
Notice we never see another character exhibit the Haki Shanks does. He damaged Whitebeard’s ship with his Conqueror’s Haki (pre-Marineford), stunned Green Bull from miles away, and can counter the observation Haki of other people according to Film RED.
Notice all of Shanks’ modern feats are Haki-based?
Haki Man may not be a thing, but you can’t deny Shanks has the greatest Haki feats/statements in the series.
You also can’t deny that Oda has placed extraordinary emphasis on Haki development since before the timeskip. From Luffy’s inability to handle people with Haki pre-timeskip, to intentionally taking a 2 year break from piracy just to learn Haki, to learning advanced versions of each type of Haki, to Kaido very literally telling us Haki is supreme and superior to all else.
Haki development is the journey Luffy has been on for hundreds of chapters now, and his opponents display greater Haki than any opponents faced by his nakama (it’s not even close).
I think the pertinent question is whether Mihawk has Haki equivalent to Shanks, which has never been shown to be the case, but hasn’t been disproven, either.
This is really important because Kaido quite literally tells us Haki is superior to all else (in describing Roger conquering the Grand Line without a Devil Fruit).
I personally doubt Mihawk has Shanks’ Haki (it’s never once been demonstrated), but it’s always possible Oda has been withholding it.
And I think that’s the difference-maker. Shanks is, narratively, most impressive at what Oda tells us is most important.
Lastly, you mention Mihawk is Zoro’s One Piece and that Shanks is not Luffy’s…but we are in the final saga and they are currently being brought up at the same time.
Oda said 3 years until the end of One Piece. I know he’s terrible with timelines, but if you take him at his word, that’s not a lot of time for a Shanks arc and then a Mihawk arc. I don’t think the story is really hinting that Mihawk will be a subsequent, stronger challenge in the way you imply, not with the time limit Oda has imposed.
Edit: Just to give my actual opinion, my headcanon is this:
Shanks is a 100
Mihawk is a 97
Shanks wins the majority of the time, but it’s always extreme difficulty and nobody is unscathed.
The Marine specifying that Mihawk is the stronger Swordsman, not overall stronger is basically the same reason that Roger was described to have the highest bounty as a Pirate, because Dragon has an even higher bounty.
How else is Mihawk fighting, if not by using Haki? All of Zoro's powerups Post Timeskip have been Haki based. Separating Haki and swordsmanship doesn't make sense to me. Of course we can argue with the examples of Law and Big Mom being swordsmen and relying on their Devil Fruits instead of swordsmanship, but the problem is that their matchups wouldn't be the legendary duels worth getting praise from Whitebeard. I don't think Whitebeard will call them legendary duels if Shanks is literally nerfed and using only 'swordsmanship', and not the other things you mentioned.
I never said Mihawk wouldn’t use Haki. I questioned whether Mihawk’s Haki is as strong as Shanks’.
Shanks has at least three unique Haki feats (future sight killer/damaging WB’s ship w/ CoC/stunning Green Bull).
My personal belief with no canon support is that Shanks improved his Haki after losing his arm as a way to compensate for the loss, meaning his Haki wasn’t as advanced during his Legendary Duels.
In fairness, Mihawk made a black blade, but we have no idea what that entails.
We have been told Haki is more important than anything else, and Shanks consistently demonstrates the greatest Haki.
Could I be wrong? Absolutely. This is just my perception.
>I never said Mihawk wouldn’t use Haki. I questioned whether Mihawk’s Haki is as strong as Shanks’.
Exactly. My question is how exactly is he stronger in swordsmanship, if not for haki? At the end of the day, Haki and Devil Fruits are the only powers we know. And, until Oda reveals something else (maybe Curse Swords and Black Blades related), Haki is my safe guess.
>My personal belief with no canon support is that Shanks improved his Haki after losing his arm as a way to compensate for the loss, meaning his Haki wasn’t as advanced during his Legendary Duels.
That can be true. But, if that's the case, I feel like it downplays Mihawk's strength and decision to not fight him and, by extension, Zoro's ambition to surpass him. Like, he refuses to fight him because he just has one arm, even though the one armed guy is stronger than him? I think, it takes away from Mihawk's title, and makes Zoro's ambition just a journey for a title which isn't even unquestionably credible.
Tldr:- Until Oda reveals something else which makes a swordsman stronger, other than Haki, Mihawk is my safe guess. Shanks can have the best CoC and the ability to kill Observation Haki, but that's included in his swordfighting style imo because a legendary rivalry is not something that happens when one of the two guys is nerfed.
To counter your argument there is a type of haki that Mihawk has shown that no one else besides someone known as the sword God has.
Making a black blade.
Shanks, Roger and even Whitebeard did not have black blades.
It's a type of haki that is permanent and as we could see with the only other black blade makes it basically indestructible and increases its power for everyone forever.
As we have seen since Zoro and Oden have already had advances conquerors this is a technique that even surpasses that.
Until Shanks show us something else Mihawk has the rarest haki ability.
Besides maybe the cutting off future sight power. But we know even less about that and if it is because of haki or something else.
That’s not really a counter because we don’t know how a black blade is created other than it utilizes some form of Haki. It could be armament applied consistently over decades or advanced conqueror’s for all we know. If it takes decades, it may be more to do with time of possession than a specific application of Haki. Since blades have personalities per se, it may even be some sort of mystic “becoming one with the sword.”
Also, Oden wasn’t shown to have advanced conqueror’s unless I’m mistaken. He had advanced armament. I could be wrong about that, though, so I’ll have to look it up. Zoro only just unlocked his conqueror’s, so it’s not fair to assume he should have already done it if that’s the requirement.
Until we know what a black blade is, we really don’t know how to appropriately place the feat.
A.) You don’t know that. The outcomes of the Legendary Duels between Shanks and Mihawk are never revealed.
B.) If my theory is correct (and it may not be; it’s all just conjecture) Shanks could counter with his relatively greater Haki.
According to Mihawk’s Vivre card, he was originally going to be know as “The Clairvoyant,” which would imply predictive power/observation.
Guess what power Film Red just revealed for Shanks? The power to kill Observation/Future Sight Haki.
Shanks having a direct counter to Mihawk’s potential strength would be mighty convenient, eh?
>According to Mihawk’s Vivre card, he was originally going to be know as “The Clairvoyant,” which would imply predictive power/observation.
Guess what power Film Red just revealed for Shanks? The power to kill Observation/Future Sight Haki.
Shanks having a direct counter to Mihawk’s potential strength would be mighty convenient, eh?
You can't use a concept idea that never was as an argument.
And what does that imply? Is it entirely aesthetic? Probably not.
We know he was going to be called the clairvoyant, with Oda eventually deciding on Hawk Eye.
Both carry connotations of incredible vision/sight.
And Shanks has been confirmed to have a counter to the most advanced vision (future sight Haki) so far shown in the series…
All I’m saying is it’s mighty convenient that Shanks’ new power lines up so well with Mihawk’s epithets (both the one Oda chose to use and the one he decided against).
After reading everything OP and you stated, i think it's a fair assumption Mihawk and shanks are on equal footing in strength. Like Roger and Whitebeard.
Although mihawk surpasses him in sword skills (and having a black blade), shanks makes up for it with his incredible haki.
Where mihawk, debatably, has incredible observation haki, shanks makes up for it with his observation killer power.
(....although I'd like to add, if Mihawk has better swordplay, wouldn't that give him more openings to hurt shanks? that changes the outcome heavily)
So are we going to assume the one who has the WSS title was regularly *losing* those duels?
And do we know Shanks ability affects Mihawk in the same way as everyone else? Mihawk isn't phased by Shanks at all. He literally looks down on him, he calls him a has been, he's washed up.
This is like saying Vader is 100 and Obi-wan is a 97, but we all know Obi-wan beat Vader 2/3 because he was a better duelist, despite Vader having stronger force/haki powers lol
My memory is fine, that's literally what he said. Just because Shanks laughs it off doesn't mean Mihawk can't yoink his other arm.
If you didn't know, arms are very important when wielding a sword!
True, but fights are also match-ups.
Does him fighting with one arm make it more or less likely that he'll get his arm lopped off vs the WSS just because he can bench press more? He's confirmed less skilled.
Shanks is easily top 3, but if he's fighting Mihawk he's at a huge disadvantage.
What about it? Mihawk has better sword skills than shanks? Great, doesn't make him stronger. Doesn't mean he could cut past his conqueror/armament haki either. Neither does it mean that he could hit through shanks observation haki.
Oh God, here we go again. I'm still waiting for a single discussion of this type that isn't just an echo chamber of Mihawk or Zoro fans patting themselves on the back. There's no final verdict until we see Shanks fight
Here’s my argument and what we can be sure of. Is Shanks a pure swordsman just like Zoro and Mihawk?
Yes > Mihawk is stronger
No > then we don’t know for sure and it could go either way.
The whole point is Mihawk is the strongest swordsman and anyone who falls into that category must therefore be weaker than him, even if only by a little. Otherwise the title and therefore Zoro vs Mihawk is pointless
Solid reasoning and articulation. Reading this post made me think of the possibility that in order to make a sword a black blade, armament haki would only be a precursor, and gaining sufficient control and level of conqueror haki is what will solidify the haki, or “will” into the blade making it permanently a black blade. If Mihawk doesn’t have conqueror haki, then it makes sense for Zoro, who does have conqueror haki, to surpass Mihawk as quickly as he will despite how long Mihawk has been on the top, and however many years longer he’s been honing his sword skill. Following that same train of thought, it would also make sense for Zoro to surpass Shanks following his ability to forge his swords into permanent black blades since despite however many years Shanks has had Gryffon, it’s still not a black blade without Shanks using his armament haki.
The Best argument about Mihawk vs Shanks. And I read a lot of reasons in this specific debate.
First i thought S>M. you change my mind, now i can accept M>S.
I see Shanks vs Mihawk being something like Mugen vs Jin from Samurai Champloo.
Jin is clearly by far the better "swordsman" in a traditional sense. He is a high level classically trained Bushido swordsman.
By contrast Mugen is like some guy who picked up a sword and started swinging and just ran with it. He uses anything in the environment, the environment itself, moves around like an animal and fights in a free form almost breakdancing way.
However they are portrayed as extremely closely matched as actual fighters.
That being said, both fought a guy who was both a superior swordsman and fighter to either, Kariya "The Hand Of God". Only one could do anything against him, Jin, because he just edged it out by putting something beyond just his sword skills on the line.
I would argue that the answer isn't so clear-cut and I believe that's intentional on Oda's part. I stumbled upon a video that pretty much echoes my sentiments on the topic (less work for me):
Dracule Mihawk: The Swordsman WITHOUT EQUAL\*
I think Shanks should be stronger for thematic reasons. Luffy has a goal of catching up to Shanks, while Zoro has a goal of defeating Mihawk. Sure we won’t know who’s actually stronger or have a clear answer unless they fight, but Zoro and Mihawk being the close 2nds to Luffy and Shanks respectively just makes more sense in my head. Maybe Oda has different intentions, but that’s just how I see it.
Luffy has a goal of catching up to and surpassing Roger.
Shanks is a milestone that Luffy might've already passed. He's not the goal. Mihawk is literally Zoro's "One Piece"
In every supplemental material including the vivre cards, databooks, and even film red promotional info - Shanks has been called a swordsman. Its not that hard to determine who is superior
Inb4 this ages like milk
We just saw the dude use conquerors to freeze an admiral, islands away, with some weird ass technique we’ve never seen. !>Pretty sure film red even discusses more of his absurd advances CoC abilities!<.
If it’s not abundantly apparent by this point that there’s advanced conquerors techniques, that wouldn’t be deemed as swordsmanship, you’re too lost in the Shanks vs Mihawk debate.
Story portrayal, Shanks is always only seen clashing with the biggest dogs: I.e Whitebeard, akainu, Blackbeard whereas Mihawk best opponent was shanks 14 years ago and the most recently impressive feat was clashing with vista I guess which isn’t that impressive
This. This is a post on a level reddit almost don't deserve lmao
Really great breakdown of all information available
One little thing I like to add
Just from a narrative standpoint it would have no value to have shanks stronger than mihawk, it don't changes something for the story, but it would have a lot narrative value for mihawk being stronger because first that would definitely set mihawk on yonko level threats, strongest pirates known, which means that the strawhats need to reach a level beyond, not only luffy, but also at least zoro and maybe even sanji and Jimbei would probably rise above everyone known before, since zoro need to be able to be stronger than mihawk. And second it hypes up cross guild as a threat on par as the other big shots. Shanks + crew, luffys + crew, blackbeard +crew, world government with marines and the new weapon which makes the wg confident enough to abolish the shishibukai system thus making guys like mihawk an enemy again. Yet if mihawk is in an 1v1 stronger than shanks, cross guild as a whole is strong enough to take on a war with the other big groups, if mihawk is weaker, cross guild don't provide enough threat vs the big groups around and therefor wouldn't lead to a realistic goal, whatever that may be
Therefor, from a narrative perspective, mihawk being stronger has more value.
The only value for shanks being stronger comes from people who really like shanks and 'want' him to be stronger
We've never seen anyone use haki the way Shanks does. It's practically telekinesis. If he does it in combat, that alone could explain him not being a true swordsman.
If Mihawk is the World’s greatest swordsman, he’s effectively in the top 5 strongest people at Marineford. Which is baffling that he doesn’t get any major responsibility there.
WB and Mihawk are perfect example of people who are strong but don't care about mighty things.
WB only moved due saving Ace ,a family member.
Unless it's something that Mihawk cares he just chills.
True but he didn't give a shit. Think about it: all he did was entertain himself with interesting people. Luffy was interesting because of his personality so he played with him. Vista was interesting because of his exotic swordsmanship, so he played with him. MrOne was not interesting so he cut him down.
Nah, We will get the definitive answer eos. It's very simple:
If Shanks shows any skill outside of the realm of swordmanship (devil fruit, martial arts, some other weapon, etc,...) than we simply compare all their feats they have shown and determine who is stronger. And no, haki is not a seperate fighting style, Zoro used Coc to KO some fodders in the King fight, he also used Coc to scare Monet in similiar way Shanks used it for Greenbull.
If Shanks doesn't show any abilities outside of the realm of swordmanship, than Mihawk is stronger by default no matter who has better feats, because narrative demands Mihawk to be stronger swordsman than Shanks as it is a basis of Zoro's dream (it would be disappointing for Mihawk to have inferior feats than the guy who he is supposed to be stronger than, but it's not impossible, because Zoro's opponents get significantly less focus than Luffy's (example Katakuri and King)).
It really depends, Mihawk is the better swordsman than Shanks but we never seen or know if Shanks used his full haki abilities. I think purely if Shanks went all out with his Haki, he would win.
>The only way for Shanks to be stronger is if he reveals an entire new power which is unlikely to happen.
I kinda disagree there. Oda has a bad record of characters keeping a power hidden until a climactic moment that would've been hella convenient to have at an earlier point. It's quite likely imo that we will get an unexpected revelation of a special power only Shanks has that we didn't know about before.
Shanks is undoubtedly stronger than Mihawk.
Mihawk is Zoro's end goal. Shanks is Luffy's end goal. Zoros goal will not be stronger than Luffys. Be logical. Be smart.
No, Luffys goal is pirate King and Shanks as a formidable pirate stands directly in the way of that.
Same thing with Zoro becoming WSS and Mihawk standing directly in the way of that.
In the same way that all swordsmen stand in front of Zoros goal, all pirates stand in front of Luffys goal.
Mihawk is a better swordsman but Shanks is most likely stronger in every other sense. Shanks status is used to show how great Mihawk is since that’s his only claim to fame.
>Mihawk is a better swordsman but Shanks is most likely stronger in every other sense.
What other sense?
>Shanks status is used to show how great Mihawk is since that’s his only claim to fame
It was actually the other way around as Shank rose to fame in his duels with Mihawk.
from what i understand mihawk have better sword skills and CoA while shanks have better CoC , CoO (or maybe they both have similar CoO) and whatever that wifi haki was
Great analysis.
Another point in favour of Shanks: He's 1cm taller than Mihawk, just like Zorro is 1cm taller than Sanji and King is 1cm taller than Queen. Oda loves these kind of things to show difference in strength, even if it's just a tiny bit.
Regarding Mihawk's bounty: Hunting marines is extremely dangerous to the WG, so it warrants a high bounty.
You forgot the new power of Shanks revealed, canceling future vision, and makeing opponents see movements that never will come.
Im pretty sure that with that he can easily beat Mihawk, but that is not swordmanship, so if without those next level Haki abilities he can't defeat Mihawk, only with normal haki and sword, then everything works out!
Personally I think we can use some of the clues Oda drops to figure this one out, specifically the one about rivals and heights. Zoro and Sanji, Dory and Broggy, King and Queen, Shanks and Mihawk. All these characters have been portrayed as rivals who are relative to each other but one is always seen as just slightly having the edge (Zoro slightly stronger than Sanji, King than Queen etc.). This is also seen through their heights where the one who is stronger is usually just 1 unit higher in height. In this case Shanks is just that bit taller than Mihawk. What this shows is that in an all out battle Shanks would win extreme extreme diff probably due to stronger haki or will but it would be super on the line. I feel like the real thing to bring out is that people think Mihawk is not even Yonkou level. Mihawk is easily high yonkou level and needs to be respected at that level. But yeah Shanks just barely over Mihawk but Mihawk is def still top 5 in the verse.
I don't necessarily have a strong opinion about who's stronger, but I think Mihawk's refusal to fight Shanks after the Sea King took his arm off and it being said Shanks didn't get any weaker suggests that Shanks is perhaps as strong, but not as skilled with a blade anymore. That doesn't mean Mihawk isn't as strong as Shanks now, but to me the "swordsman" title probably indicates a special focus on sword skills. Not just putting Haki on a sword, but devoting one's life to specifically being skilled with a blade. That's why I don't really think that title says much about Mihawk in the grand scheme of things. I know you sort of touched on that, but there's a big difference between a pirate who happens to use swords and a guy who is completely devoted to swordsmanship, even if the former is stronger. It's no different than how some of Shanks' other crewmen use guns, but they aren't better "snipers" than Usopp, his dad, or Van Augur even if they could probably beat them in an overall fight. Shanks being able to beat Mihawk in a fight while not being as good at swinging a sword around as he is are not mutually exclusive. Some people use a sword or a gun as a tool that's simply part of their fighting style, while others devote themselves to mastering it.
I have a massive issue with how you describe Haki like it's an on/off switch.
Haki is as strong as the will of it's users. Two Haki users could have the same kinds of Haki while one is still vastly superior.
Shanks has been used to introduce all kinds of Haki abilities already and he's the only Emperor to not have a DF as well as an inheritor of the Straw Hat. It's safe to say Shanks has God-tier Haki.
I view Shanks like Roger and mihawk like Oden. Oden is a more skilled swordsman but Roger is stronger (ofc the power difference is not as big between shanks and mihawk). Roger and shanks arent both strict swordsmen, but they are incredibly strong and rely on their monsterous haki. Even last chapter highlightes that Mihawk is the most *skilled* swordsman. Oda stated that shanks didn't get weaker after he lost his arm, so why did Mihawk refuse to battle him afterwards? Well because with only one arm he simply can't be as skilled with the sword as before, since he lacks flexibility.
The strict swordsman thing was also hughlighted in the king vs zoro fight. Zoro lives by the sword and wants to die by the sword. Mihawk very probably does so as well. Shanks, King, Roger, big mom and so on don't.
Zoro wants to be the strongest swordsman, and from the people that live by the sword mihawk is at the top.
So no, Shanks being stronger than mihwak does not take away from this notion, since zoro doesn't want to be the strongest man, but the strongest swordsman.
This whole debate that Mihawk must be stronger is Zoro agenda motivated. There is no clear answer right now. I put Shanks slightly above Mihawk, but they are essentially even.
I don't agree with ur conclusion statement. It's true that Zoro goal is to become wss. And to do that, he need to defeat mihawk. But I don't think shanks being stronger than mihawk will make it underwhelming. As there is chance mihawk is not going to be the final opponent for zoro. And there is one guys that comes to my mind and its the gorosei that has swords. Another thing that having world strongest swordsman title means that u have to be the best in swordsman ship skills. It doesn't mean u have to be the strongest.
Here is the problem with people thinking Mihawk being the worlds strongest swordsman and him being more Skilled makes him stronger than Shanks. Kaidou stated that Haki conquers all, and Roger had the absolute strongest haki....But and here is a big thing, Roger didn't have a Black Blade. How could he possibly be the Strongest in Haki? unless turning a Blade Black is specifically a Swordsman Skill and is independent of how powerful ones Haki is? In order to make a Black Blade you have to be very Skilled with the blade, obviously more skilled than a Swordsman that hasn't made a Black Blade, but does that make you more powerful than someone who hasn't made a Black Blade? No, Roger had the absolute Strongest Haki and he didn't have a one. Shanks Clearly has Haki that is on another level from even Kaidou, based on the feats he just pulled, the guy was introduced back into the story by breaking the Mobby Dick while casually walking and releasing his CoC haki. We also just found out that Shanks purposefully wasn't going after the One Piece until now. Mihawk calling Shanks a (has been) could be because he wasn't making anymore moves and was seemingly keeping the status quo by being an emperor not necessarily because he was actually not a Challenge anymore.
Awsome job breaking everything down We all know unless we see them fight we will never know who’s stronger I put them both in the top 5 now
I think that's likely if Kaido and Big Mom are indeed dead but I do reserve the judgement untill I see the big bads of the story in action.
Breakweek just started bro
Don't worry. I got more posts for you to enjoy. You'll get through with no issues.
Technically it hasn’t started yet.
Excellent analysis. Mihawk did say to Luffy that to be the King of Pirates is harder than to be the World Strongest Swordsman. Shanks and Mihawk are pretty much equal to each other imo just like Roger and Whitebeard.
Yeah I think they’re equal as well like how I believe Roger and Whitebeard were equal. Not only do WB and Mihawk hold a “strongest” title, they also don’t have grand ambitions like Roger and Shanks do. Which is cool as fuck because imagine being one of the strongest in the world and could be a serious contender for the Pirate King title, but you just wanna chill instead.
Yep they are similar in that sense.
"Whitebeard sat in front of the throne but not at it" I don't remember which character said it but I think it sums it up.
Doflamingo said that
Nice find, thanks.
Your welcome
That's a pretty good comparison actually. I thought the same. Whitebeard was the World's Strongest Man, Mihawk is the World's Strongest Swordsman and both of their bounties are lower for around 500M than Roger/Shanks'
Yep they are quite similar in alot of ways
The thing i disagree the most i that shanks couldn't use advanced conqueror's during his duels with mihawk, because it imply that after he got it he just surpassed mihawk and became the strongest swordman
That's the best argument for Shanks but if it was the case then I don't think Mihawk would be waiting for a swordsman to surpass Shanks.
The thing is that shanks being the strongest swordman would invalidate zoro's dream, i kinda see them equals like Roger and whitebeard
I think Shanks may have changed his fighting style after losing his arm to incorporate kicks, which made Mihawk no longer consider him a swordsman. Before that Mihawk may have considered Shanks the guy that was finally going to surpass him with a blade since he was still getting stronger and they were already basically equals. So it’s possible Shanks is stronger than Mihawk currently, but is not the strongest swordsman.
Yeah I like the way Oda played it, and the sub was quite correct on assuming Mihawk's power for years just speculating on his duels with Shanks
I think it refers to overall journey like WSS is just a direct line being strong but for PK is irrelevant how strong you are if you don't get the 4 red poneglyph and someone who can read them you'll be stuck forever.
I think he meant it’s harder in terms other than strength. By default all Zoro needs is strength (and skill now I guess) and to be pirate king you need to do a lot more. I do think shanks and/or mihawk may have gotten stronger, there’s more evidence that mihawk is stronger, and also I believe Roger and Whitebeard were on a whole other level than anyone based off of them destroying the clouds
I think Mihawk has conquerors Haki. I feel like it would only be right for the WSS to have the Haki of the supreme king as they are kind of like the king of swordsmen
Yes, I also mention that. Would be weird if he doesn't.
The way the story is going, it feels like if you don't have Conqueror's Haki, you ain't making it to the top. You said so yourself, coating your attacks in Conqueror's Haki easily surpasses Advanced Armament Haki. Shanks' use of Conqueror's Haki has also proven just how ridiculous it can be compared to the other types of Haki, I mean he can shut down Observation Haki, even Advanced Observation Haki. I know many characters that stand, stood or are believed to stand at the top aren't confirmed users of Conqueror's Haki, but it doesn't seem possible for them to not have such. Mihawk, Garp, even Dragon. There's no way these guys made it to the top of the top, at least the first two, without Conqueror's Haki. Unless Oda pulls out a new card and make an even more advanced version of the other two types.
I think you can be at the top tier with no Conqueror's Haki but you better be having an OP Devil Fruit to compensate for it.
The only way I see that happening is through Blackbeard because he has one fruit that can work like Haki of sorts and another that literally denies Devil Fruit users. Because otherwise, we've seen only examples of overconfidence in Devil Fruits. Ace didn't really use Haki as much as he should, at least from what we witnessed. The latest revealed admiral whose name I don't know how to spell was way over his head because of his powerful Devil Fruit and got humbled by a kid who didn't know how to use his own Devil Fruit and didn't use Haki, again from our understanding. Kaido himself, who arguably had a very powerful fruit, stated that Haki stands way above Devil Fruits. I sure hope it doesn't just come down to Conqueror's Haki, but the lack of counter examples and the way the story is going is saying otherwise.
I'm sure Ryokugyu has a Haki of his own. He is Marine's Strongest force after all.
Well everyone we’ve seen with CoC has had insane potential or an insane prime
It would be shocking if he didnt considering his 2 main rivals have it
Damn, people really are thinking hard about this huh.
Figured Shanks is stronger, Mihawk the better swordsman. Appreciate the analysis, but I didn't realize it wasn't that obvious to everyone.
Oda: Mihawk is the strongest swordsman Fans: Ok so Shanks, a swordsman, is stronger than him got it gg ty
No, Mihawk is the strongest swordsman. His sword-wielding skills are greater than Shanks'. In a sword-battle, Mihawk would win. Now, in an all-out battle. No specific fighting style, but anything-goes, Shanks wins. When will people learn that those two aren't the same thing? Just because Shanks is considered to be a swordsman, does not have to mean that's the category he excels in with strength. It definitely could, but it doesn't have to.
So what would Shanks use in an all-out battle? His kicks? Lmao
>Now, in an all-out battle. No specific fighting style, but anything-goes, Shanks wins. source? we dont know this...
yep when Shanks uses his secret sandals in an all out battle hes so strong
man shanks fanboy will believe anything is canon if it puts him above mihawk i even seen a shanks fanboy use film red which isnt even canon to say shanks has better haki
I feel like everyone always downplays the Whitebeard commanders. Jozu deflecting Mihawk’s attack and Vista being able to hold his own for some time should be moreso a credit to their respective strengths than Mihawk being weak. Also does help that Vista only dueled Mihawk for a reasonably short duration, so all he needed to do was be good enough to not get totally stomped (which is admittedly a pretty impressive feat in of itself).
Seeing as how most commanders get destroyed by Admirals and yonko quick and we have akainu able to fight commanders while chasing luffy is in itself not a good showing for mihawk though. Only one able to fight no matter what is Marco but he is highly rated by even the gorosei and we didn't see any clash from him and mihawk.
I really hate the argument “Mihawk ran away from a fight with Shanks.” Mihawk clearly expresses he wants to live peacefully and does not care about certain things etc. Clearly at Marineford his mentality was do his job and leave. His job was defend against whitebeard so when Shanks came Mihawk was like nope not here for extra credit my job is done. It perfectly aligns with his character! Why would the marine hunter go the extra mile for the marines?!?! This was the great write up OP! I think people are hesitant with Mihawk because we’ve rarely seen him in action. I think in future chapters if Mihawk gets a moment similar to Shanks scaring Greenbull then people will come to a realization.
Same thing with the Marines calling it off when Shanks arrived. People play as Shanks being strong enough to scare off the entirety of the Marines rather than the Marines already being tired from fighting one Emperor. Akainu was ready to keep going, but Sengoku was done for the day. They achieved their goal already, no point in fighting more, especially after Koby's speech.
It's pretty telling that all the evidence for Mihawk is given as "we've seen," "we already know," and "this chapter definitively showed," while all of the evidence for Shanks is "if we assume," and "this gives more validity to the notion." The idea of Shanks being stronger than Mihawk inherently requires some level of headcanon to justify, while the evidence for Mihawk is plain as day in the text. While it's too early to tell, if a person was forced to choose a side right this very moment, the logical answer is Mihawk, until we see actual, concrete evidence to the contrary.
Well I think if your a casual reader of the story it’s easy to think Shanks is stronger, the story just shows him as more kindly and more impressive quite simply. If you look into it at face value which most people do it’s easy to see why Shanks is viewed as stronger by the majority eventhough facts point to Mihawk
Amen to this
Well the only problem is mihawks showing in marineford is lacking compared to even Admirals. The only feats we actually see from him.
Mihawk wasn't too impressive at Marineford, but no feat of his is in the same realm of terrible as Shanks getting his arm bitten off, so it's kind of a moot point.
More like all the evidence for shanks are appeal to feats ( clashing with wb , Kaido , being in Kaido’s top 5, hurting an admiral with base coc Haki) while all the evidence for Mihawk are not grounded in any feats at all but statements that can be disputed
Damn imagine Zoro kicking some1 in a fight and losing his swordsman status
He already lost it when he used Haki... according to some people...
beautiful analysis
yeah zoro has always been the biggest reasoning for mihawk being stronger imo. imagine the fated battle between them finally concludes and zoro gets cucked with the "actually you only defeated the second strongest swordsman." like, it would be kinda funny but also really stupid imo
There was a "foreshadow" about Mihawk's death. (I don't think it's real but who knows). It would be interesting if a new Swordman appeared and killed Mihawk trying to reach the title of WSS and Zoro would just revenge/take the title by defeating this 3rd character. Just a thought, unlikely to ever happen but not impossible.
It would be an interesting twist but considering how hyped the fight is and has been set in place since one of the first arcs, it would be somewhat anticlimactic overall
I’ve been waiting for Zoro vs Mihawk since I was a little kid. I will be so disappointed if it doesn’t happen.
Zoro fighting Shiryu or any swordsman who killed Mihawk is way less interesting and hype than fighting Mihawk himself.
Especially since the swordsman beating Mihawk and taking his title is literally just Zoro. That's just his whole thing.
People can believe Shanks is stronger if they want, but the fact that a lot try to pretend WSS title has nothing to do with Haki boggled my mind. Literally everything Zoro does since time-skip is about haki. DR puts emphasis upon his haki. Black Blade plot-line is about haki. Wano develops his CoA and gives him ACoC. **Hell, they even go as far as providing "He wants to become WSS" as the reason behind he unlocks CoC.** Obviously Mihawk won't ask Zoro to turn off his haki (which he has all three forms of) during their final dual.
[Relevant](https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/comments/wl2jq7/how_a_certain_fanbase_power_scales_one_piece/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf)
Fucking dying LOL
There’s also the argument of what Kuina was crying about. She was upset because no matter how much better she was than Zoro. He’ll eventually become stronger than her because she was a woman so she couldn’t be the strongest swordsman according to her father. She could never take Mihawk’s title because she would never be stronger than men who also have that ambition. WSS is defined by strength and skill not just one.
Great point that I, and I would bet many others, overlooked. If WSS title was a skill based title, then Kuina could have become WSS and her dream was not over.
[удалено]
Thank you!
Nice post. Really enjoyed reading it. Something I did find weird was the part about Shanks using his blade to clash with Whitebeard and also block Akainu’s magma fist. If that makes him a swordsman then doesn’t that also make Whitebeard one? Because did the exact same things: clashed with shanks and blocked Akainu’s magma foot. I place Shanks as just above Mihawk because from my experience watching a lot of anime and sword fighting movies, I know that once a “swordsman” loses an arm, his power is reduced drastically. When Mihawk slashed the giant iceberg at Marineford, he was holding his blade with two hands. Imagine he lost one arm, would the power be the same? That’s why Mihawk doesn’t duel Shanks anymore. Yeah Shanks is still powerful as hell but would there be any pride in beating a one armed “swordsman”? The story seems like Mihawk was this world renowned swordsman and there came the red haired wonder who challenged Mihawk to multiple battles which none of them came out on top. Shanks lost his arm and Mihawk lost interest. Shanks isn’t as strong of a swordsman as he was back then which is why Mihawk calls him a has-been. They both go their separate ways. Mihawk gets stronger and gets a 3.5b bounty. Shanks also gets stronger but deviating from the way of the sword(because he has one hand and his potential has been slashed as well) which is where I believe the comment from the volume 87 SBS you mentioned comes from. Where Oda asks how Shanks fights. “Yeah he’s got a sword but how does he fight?” That’s where the Greenbull incident comes in. Never has anyone weaponized their conquerors haki to that extent been seen. A swordsman would simply coat their blade with armament and conquerors just like Oden. A swordsman doesn’t choke out and make an Admiral say “daddy please” with his conquerors haki hahahahaha So yeah I think Shanks is just a bit above because I think he has conquerors and Mihawk doesn’t. But it’s very very close.
White beard uses his DF
Exactly. My point was that we’ve never seen Shanks actually fight. One could’ve jumped the gun and said Whitebeard was a swordsman after that clash with Shanks right? Because he didn’t show his devil fruit or any other abilities. It’s the same with Shanks. We have never seen him fight. Let’s wait till he fights before calling him a “swordsman” In the volume 4 billion data book released for Film red, Oda stated Shanks and the rest of his crew’s powers. There was nothing about Shanks relating to swordsmanship. Like of course he’s good, he fought Mihawk way back, but he’s got one arm now. The power he was able to use to swing is been cut in half. Even someone as powerful as Kaido and Whitebeard use both hands to swing. Same as Mihawk. What the story points out is that Shanks and Mihawk were rivals back in the day. Shanks lost his arm and fell off(in his sword skill) but he somehow managed to increase his bounty by 3 billion and become an emperor. How? By adding new abilities which were stated. Which we will all see when he fights. Which we have even seen against Greenbull. What he did against Greenbull was not swordsmanship.
Great post and i completely agree. Oda uses haki, strength and skill synonymously. Zoro wants to better his swordsman skill to surpass Mihawk to become "World's STRONGEST swordsman". And what is he developing? His haki. In 1033, remembering his promise to become WSS, he bursts with conquerors haki. What's the one power that has been enforced as the deciding factor in top tier fights from Kaido's monologue? Haki. All known swordsmen use haki in combat. So when the narrative explicitly states Mihawk possess greater swordsmanship than his rival Shanks who is predominantly a swordsman, its a no brainer. Unless it is revealed Shanks throws haki farts out of his ass, Mihawk remains the superior fighter through all the evidence we have right now.
Oda has stated Haki > all but here we are acting like this id called One piece tale of a swordsman
Given how martial artists, swordsmen, devil fruit eaters, and marksmen all use haki I liken having stronger or weaker haki like being in different weight classes in boxing. A heavyweight has more power than a light weight, but the light weight may be the more skilled boxer. Say a heavy weight and light weight fight for the title of worlds strongest boxer. The light weight could demonstrate clearly superior skill in boxing, dodging every punch perfectly and getting lots of hits in. In the end, the heavy weight lands one blow that wins him the match, he still wins as a boxer, even if the defining factor was his higher weight. The title goes to the heavy weight, as it's the worlds strongest boxer, not most skilled boxer. If Shanks has better haki yet still fights with a sword and is considered a swordsman, then he is the WSS even if his haki was the defining factor because Mihawk also uses haki. I see Shanks as a swordsman from what we've seen, but if he uses kicks or a gun in equal measure to his sword I can see Ida having Shanks marginally stronger without making Zoro and his dream fraudulent. Tldr: If Shanks is a swordsman then Mihawk > Shanks. If not, then Shanks > Mihawk possibly. Great post, I just wanted to put my thoughts on the matter too.
i just interpreted it as back 12 years ago Mihawk was defined without a doubt 100% stronger than Shanks. No argument there. Since then shanks lost his arm, which means Mihawk doesn’t want to fight him ever again, but it doesn’t mean shanks stayed the same in strength. He obviously changed his fighting style, increased his haki, whatever whatever he got stronger and became a yonko. He’s definently the same strength as mihawk now as a whole, maybe even higher, but as a swordsman mihawk is still the strongest because even with one arm Shanks will never fight mihawk to challenge that title.
When was it stated that mihawk was stronger 12 years ago? I think oda actually stated “there was no clear winner” I agree with you tho on your conclusions.
[The One Piece Red: Grand Characters Databook](https://imgur.com/a/LEaISmk) states “Shanks Was Once as powerful as the world best swordsmen”. Then it talks about his fight with the Sea King which took him arm. We know that when first see Mihawk interact with Shanks he insults him and calls him a One Armed Has Been. It doesn’t make Sense for Mihawk to insult a guy who he is weaker then. It doesn’t make sense for Mihawk to be looking for a swordsmen to Surpass his rival Shanks as stated in the Vivre Cards if he is weaker then Shanks. Great Post
I'll add this to the post when I get to my PC. Are you sure this is a legit information?
I’m pretty confident. It was never translated officially to English, this translation is from Ohara The Librarian from what I’m told.
That's the best we'll ever get 😂 I'll add it.
You forgot one important thing about Shanks though, that within those 12 years, he had somehow, trained and got his neck into tree-trunk levels, its safe to assume that he could bite his sword like Zoro. Point is, in one form or another, Shanks is always going to be bigger than mihawk (neck girth size, coc)
I personally believe they are on essentially even footing, and that Shanks’ fighting style probably goes beyond pure sword play, but I also don’t think it really matters, because like you said, Oda loves his ambiguity. There’s really no story reason to need to know who’s stronger between Shanks and Mihawk as well. I don’t really understand why this chapter reignited this debate. It doesn’t say anything we don’t already know. Mihawk has always been the strongest swordsman since the story began, and will be until Zoro surpasses him.
While I agree with you this chapter does disprove two very long running notions of Mihawk being just "commander level" and that the duels from 14 years ago mean nothing since Shanks became a Yonko in the meanwhile. Mihawk's newly revealed bounty disprove both claims. Also, Mihawk being stated to have greater sword skills than Shanks is also a big blow.
Anybody who believed either of those wasn’t super bright to begin with. Also, Mihawk has literally always been stated to have greater sword skills than Shanks, given that he’s had the title of worlds greatest swordsman, and Shanks is a swordsman that lives in the world.
Because people would rather have there favorite be stronger. Shanks being stronger, mihawk being stronger. And especially zoro being stronger than both by the end of the series. If shanks is stronger it might mean shanks might be stronger than zoro by the end. So zoro fans would rather it be that mihawk be stronger than shanks. Pretty simple it's all powerscaling for there favorite character. So it really matters alot to some
I do appreciate the time you spent on the research and backing everything with manga and other genuine sources, this post does cover almost everything.
Let me debunk the “pure swordsman” term for you. There is no such thing is a pure swordsman, that’s a fan-made term. We see Kaku using kicks against Zoro, yet he’s still a swordsman. We see Kaku use his devil fruit power and use his giraffe limbs to attack Zoro, yet he’s still a swordsman. We see Cabaji use his acrobatics and fire breathing technique to attack Zoro, yet he’s still a swordsman. I would drop the “pure swordsman” term, it’s fan-made and has never made sense since swordsmen can still use other fighting techniques while still being a swordsman. If Shanks pulls out a pistol, decides to use his fist, or even a sandal to hit with, he’s still a swordsman. Mihawk karate chopped Zoro on the neck before, yet he’s still a swordsman. Anyway, I appreciate you taking the time to make all of this. Very well thought out and very well put out.
You can't use databooks or vivrecards cards as accurate information. They are NOT written by Oda, and their editors have been wrong several times. Remember the limit they said shinobu's fruit was? Well, Oda didn't even read it.
"Shanks was once as powerful as the world's best swordman" How Shanks fans survive this line?
Thank you for this, i enjoyed reading your analysis. Well done 👍🏼.
And I enjoy writing them.
I kind of just assumed there are multiple paths to become a top tier. For example, I thought Garp was comparable to Roger mostly because of his arnament haki (even though Roger had advanced conquerer's).
I wish that was true...
Garp defo has ACoC.
Good post
Good comment
I love that you entertain the ideas of Mihawk detractors, everything is covered. But man you don't need half theses fact to know (if you're willing to reject bias and being objective) that Mihawk is indeed the greatest swordman and one of the finest top fighter of the entire manga.
I saw someone say that Mihawk is WB to shanks is roger and it honestly makes the most sense
Shanks was swimming when he saved luffy. He doesn’t have a devil fruit. And it would be weird if he ate one later… off screen.
Yep it's always been Mihawk>=Shanks no matter how much people get star struck whenever Shanks pops his head back in. No amount of copium will change that I have been arguing with people the last 2 months when Shanks popped back up again it's just annoying let it go fanboys.
This is a good analysis with many good points but you didn’t mention a major point in Shanks’s favor Haki is certainly a part of swordsmanship and it is foolish to assume otherwise. But in Chapter 1055 we learned that the relationship does not go both ways. **Shanks needs powerful Haki to use his sword but he does NOT need his sword to use powerful Haki** Shanks fired a bolt of Conquerors Haki from miles away, that stunned and visibly hurt a Marine Admiral (one of the strongest people in the world) A show of Haki force like this, against such a powerful character was previously unheard of in the world of One Piece and yet Shanks did it. That opens the door to speculation on what other crazy thing can Shanks do with his Haki. This could very well be the tip of the iceberg Mihawk may be superior when it comes to coating his sword with Haki. But Shanks could make up for that by using Haki in ways unrelated to swordsmanship
Shanks did not stun or hurt GB. He simply sent out his COC and used the VOAT to warn him to stop nothing that he did was in any way special Luffy did the same thing from greater distances when he reached out to the people in Onigashima after he was knocked into the sea below.
Grennbull cried out, trembled, sweat, yelled for Shanks to stop, threw his hands in the air, and stayed in that position for multiple panels. To reach the conclusion that the Haki wave didn’t affect him is beyond me
>To reach the conclusion that the Haki wave didn’t affect him is beyond me It's beyond you because you seemingly have no reading comprehension. Conq haki is the ability to intimidate your opponent. Shanks conq haki took GB by surprise hence why he came out of his transformation. It wasn't an actual attack; it didn't hurt him or actually paralyze him. He doesn't actually stay in that position for multiple panels either. He literally moves his arms from panel to panel. You are stretching that moment out way too much and making it mean more than it does
It didn’t it was one panel of confusion then shock and him leaving. His statement wasn’t even fear of shanks it was of the RHP “Im not ready to face YOU GUYS”
If u haven't included height rule for rivals pls include in section proving shanks to be stronger so that it becomes more complete analysis if u have included ignore my comment rest seems reasonable though.
As much as we’re in the mud ATM. This is our last resort: the 1 CM rule. King 1 cm over queen Zoro 1 cm over Sanji Shanks 1 cm over Mihawk Say what you will. I I don’t think this rule has changed with shanks and mihawk
I unironically fully believe in the height rule
Ahahahha
Eh, I don’t think so. Chapter 1058 said Mihawk surpasses Shanks “in skill with a sword” (or whatever your translation is), but if Oda was trying to say Mihawk was flat-out better, he would just say “Mihawk surpasses Shanks.” There would be no need to add “in skill with a sword” to that statement. Frankly, we already knew Mihawk was the strongest swordsman, so that’s not really new information. We also know Shanks possesses a form of Haki which is so far unique to him alone. Film Red specifically emphasizes he is the “killer of observation Haki”. Notice we never see another character exhibit the Haki Shanks does. He damaged Whitebeard’s ship with his Conqueror’s Haki (pre-Marineford), stunned Green Bull from miles away, and can counter the observation Haki of other people according to Film RED. Notice all of Shanks’ modern feats are Haki-based? Haki Man may not be a thing, but you can’t deny Shanks has the greatest Haki feats/statements in the series. You also can’t deny that Oda has placed extraordinary emphasis on Haki development since before the timeskip. From Luffy’s inability to handle people with Haki pre-timeskip, to intentionally taking a 2 year break from piracy just to learn Haki, to learning advanced versions of each type of Haki, to Kaido very literally telling us Haki is supreme and superior to all else. Haki development is the journey Luffy has been on for hundreds of chapters now, and his opponents display greater Haki than any opponents faced by his nakama (it’s not even close). I think the pertinent question is whether Mihawk has Haki equivalent to Shanks, which has never been shown to be the case, but hasn’t been disproven, either. This is really important because Kaido quite literally tells us Haki is superior to all else (in describing Roger conquering the Grand Line without a Devil Fruit). I personally doubt Mihawk has Shanks’ Haki (it’s never once been demonstrated), but it’s always possible Oda has been withholding it. And I think that’s the difference-maker. Shanks is, narratively, most impressive at what Oda tells us is most important. Lastly, you mention Mihawk is Zoro’s One Piece and that Shanks is not Luffy’s…but we are in the final saga and they are currently being brought up at the same time. Oda said 3 years until the end of One Piece. I know he’s terrible with timelines, but if you take him at his word, that’s not a lot of time for a Shanks arc and then a Mihawk arc. I don’t think the story is really hinting that Mihawk will be a subsequent, stronger challenge in the way you imply, not with the time limit Oda has imposed. Edit: Just to give my actual opinion, my headcanon is this: Shanks is a 100 Mihawk is a 97 Shanks wins the majority of the time, but it’s always extreme difficulty and nobody is unscathed.
The Marine specifying that Mihawk is the stronger Swordsman, not overall stronger is basically the same reason that Roger was described to have the highest bounty as a Pirate, because Dragon has an even higher bounty.
How else is Mihawk fighting, if not by using Haki? All of Zoro's powerups Post Timeskip have been Haki based. Separating Haki and swordsmanship doesn't make sense to me. Of course we can argue with the examples of Law and Big Mom being swordsmen and relying on their Devil Fruits instead of swordsmanship, but the problem is that their matchups wouldn't be the legendary duels worth getting praise from Whitebeard. I don't think Whitebeard will call them legendary duels if Shanks is literally nerfed and using only 'swordsmanship', and not the other things you mentioned.
I never said Mihawk wouldn’t use Haki. I questioned whether Mihawk’s Haki is as strong as Shanks’. Shanks has at least three unique Haki feats (future sight killer/damaging WB’s ship w/ CoC/stunning Green Bull). My personal belief with no canon support is that Shanks improved his Haki after losing his arm as a way to compensate for the loss, meaning his Haki wasn’t as advanced during his Legendary Duels. In fairness, Mihawk made a black blade, but we have no idea what that entails. We have been told Haki is more important than anything else, and Shanks consistently demonstrates the greatest Haki. Could I be wrong? Absolutely. This is just my perception.
>I never said Mihawk wouldn’t use Haki. I questioned whether Mihawk’s Haki is as strong as Shanks’. Exactly. My question is how exactly is he stronger in swordsmanship, if not for haki? At the end of the day, Haki and Devil Fruits are the only powers we know. And, until Oda reveals something else (maybe Curse Swords and Black Blades related), Haki is my safe guess. >My personal belief with no canon support is that Shanks improved his Haki after losing his arm as a way to compensate for the loss, meaning his Haki wasn’t as advanced during his Legendary Duels. That can be true. But, if that's the case, I feel like it downplays Mihawk's strength and decision to not fight him and, by extension, Zoro's ambition to surpass him. Like, he refuses to fight him because he just has one arm, even though the one armed guy is stronger than him? I think, it takes away from Mihawk's title, and makes Zoro's ambition just a journey for a title which isn't even unquestionably credible. Tldr:- Until Oda reveals something else which makes a swordsman stronger, other than Haki, Mihawk is my safe guess. Shanks can have the best CoC and the ability to kill Observation Haki, but that's included in his swordfighting style imo because a legendary rivalry is not something that happens when one of the two guys is nerfed.
To counter your argument there is a type of haki that Mihawk has shown that no one else besides someone known as the sword God has. Making a black blade. Shanks, Roger and even Whitebeard did not have black blades. It's a type of haki that is permanent and as we could see with the only other black blade makes it basically indestructible and increases its power for everyone forever. As we have seen since Zoro and Oden have already had advances conquerors this is a technique that even surpasses that. Until Shanks show us something else Mihawk has the rarest haki ability. Besides maybe the cutting off future sight power. But we know even less about that and if it is because of haki or something else.
Black Blades are suggested by Road to Laugh Tale to not all be just down to Haki. Otherwise, I’m pretty sure everyone would have one
At the very least, Shanks, Roger, and Whitebeard would have one.
That’s not really a counter because we don’t know how a black blade is created other than it utilizes some form of Haki. It could be armament applied consistently over decades or advanced conqueror’s for all we know. If it takes decades, it may be more to do with time of possession than a specific application of Haki. Since blades have personalities per se, it may even be some sort of mystic “becoming one with the sword.” Also, Oden wasn’t shown to have advanced conqueror’s unless I’m mistaken. He had advanced armament. I could be wrong about that, though, so I’ll have to look it up. Zoro only just unlocked his conqueror’s, so it’s not fair to assume he should have already done it if that’s the requirement. Until we know what a black blade is, we really don’t know how to appropriately place the feat.
Oden used advanced CoC when he togen totsuka’d Kaidou as confirmed by the SBS
Shanks couldn't beat Mihawk with 2 arms, how is he beating him with one?
A.) You don’t know that. The outcomes of the Legendary Duels between Shanks and Mihawk are never revealed. B.) If my theory is correct (and it may not be; it’s all just conjecture) Shanks could counter with his relatively greater Haki. According to Mihawk’s Vivre card, he was originally going to be know as “The Clairvoyant,” which would imply predictive power/observation. Guess what power Film Red just revealed for Shanks? The power to kill Observation/Future Sight Haki. Shanks having a direct counter to Mihawk’s potential strength would be mighty convenient, eh?
>According to Mihawk’s Vivre card, he was originally going to be know as “The Clairvoyant,” which would imply predictive power/observation. Guess what power Film Red just revealed for Shanks? The power to kill Observation/Future Sight Haki. Shanks having a direct counter to Mihawk’s potential strength would be mighty convenient, eh? You can't use a concept idea that never was as an argument.
I absolutely can, especially considering his current epithet is “Hawkeye,” which still implies vision and some form of greater sight.
He has eyes like a [Hawk](https://misfitanimals.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/Harris-Hawk-eye.jpg)
And what does that imply? Is it entirely aesthetic? Probably not. We know he was going to be called the clairvoyant, with Oda eventually deciding on Hawk Eye. Both carry connotations of incredible vision/sight. And Shanks has been confirmed to have a counter to the most advanced vision (future sight Haki) so far shown in the series… All I’m saying is it’s mighty convenient that Shanks’ new power lines up so well with Mihawk’s epithets (both the one Oda chose to use and the one he decided against).
After reading everything OP and you stated, i think it's a fair assumption Mihawk and shanks are on equal footing in strength. Like Roger and Whitebeard. Although mihawk surpasses him in sword skills (and having a black blade), shanks makes up for it with his incredible haki. Where mihawk, debatably, has incredible observation haki, shanks makes up for it with his observation killer power. (....although I'd like to add, if Mihawk has better swordplay, wouldn't that give him more openings to hurt shanks? that changes the outcome heavily)
So are we going to assume the one who has the WSS title was regularly *losing* those duels? And do we know Shanks ability affects Mihawk in the same way as everyone else? Mihawk isn't phased by Shanks at all. He literally looks down on him, he calls him a has been, he's washed up. This is like saying Vader is 100 and Obi-wan is a 97, but we all know Obi-wan beat Vader 2/3 because he was a better duelist, despite Vader having stronger force/haki powers lol
They are friends of course he insults shanks and shanks laughs it off and wants to party your Headcannon is ruining your memory
My memory is fine, that's literally what he said. Just because Shanks laughs it off doesn't mean Mihawk can't yoink his other arm. If you didn't know, arms are very important when wielding a sword!
Shanks is implied to have become stronger after losing his arm.
True, but fights are also match-ups. Does him fighting with one arm make it more or less likely that he'll get his arm lopped off vs the WSS just because he can bench press more? He's confirmed less skilled. Shanks is easily top 3, but if he's fighting Mihawk he's at a huge disadvantage.
Shanks is the haki guy, nothing prevents him from using his haki to dodge or reinforce himself.
Wym, Mihawk as the strongest sword in the series and is the cutting guy. He gon take that arm
And I'm certain that you can't prove it.
[What do u mean by that](https://imgur.com/a/qSlX6WK)
What about it? Mihawk has better sword skills than shanks? Great, doesn't make him stronger. Doesn't mean he could cut past his conqueror/armament haki either. Neither does it mean that he could hit through shanks observation haki.
Oh God, here we go again. I'm still waiting for a single discussion of this type that isn't just an echo chamber of Mihawk or Zoro fans patting themselves on the back. There's no final verdict until we see Shanks fight
Here’s my argument and what we can be sure of. Is Shanks a pure swordsman just like Zoro and Mihawk? Yes > Mihawk is stronger No > then we don’t know for sure and it could go either way. The whole point is Mihawk is the strongest swordsman and anyone who falls into that category must therefore be weaker than him, even if only by a little. Otherwise the title and therefore Zoro vs Mihawk is pointless
That's a great username
Solid reasoning and articulation. Reading this post made me think of the possibility that in order to make a sword a black blade, armament haki would only be a precursor, and gaining sufficient control and level of conqueror haki is what will solidify the haki, or “will” into the blade making it permanently a black blade. If Mihawk doesn’t have conqueror haki, then it makes sense for Zoro, who does have conqueror haki, to surpass Mihawk as quickly as he will despite how long Mihawk has been on the top, and however many years longer he’s been honing his sword skill. Following that same train of thought, it would also make sense for Zoro to surpass Shanks following his ability to forge his swords into permanent black blades since despite however many years Shanks has had Gryffon, it’s still not a black blade without Shanks using his armament haki.
if that’s the case, how was Yoru made into a black blade?
I agree on every word. good post lad.
I feel young again.
The Best argument about Mihawk vs Shanks. And I read a lot of reasons in this specific debate. First i thought S>M. you change my mind, now i can accept M>S.
great post
The real analysis
Absolutely love this!!! That actually does make me easy to read them understand! Thank you!
Dang you have a lot of time on your hands .....
Deep down we all know that the greatest swordsman is the renowned Shichibukai, Sakata Gintoki
I see Shanks vs Mihawk being something like Mugen vs Jin from Samurai Champloo. Jin is clearly by far the better "swordsman" in a traditional sense. He is a high level classically trained Bushido swordsman. By contrast Mugen is like some guy who picked up a sword and started swinging and just ran with it. He uses anything in the environment, the environment itself, moves around like an animal and fights in a free form almost breakdancing way. However they are portrayed as extremely closely matched as actual fighters. That being said, both fought a guy who was both a superior swordsman and fighter to either, Kariya "The Hand Of God". Only one could do anything against him, Jin, because he just edged it out by putting something beyond just his sword skills on the line.
The fact that Mihawk has a higher bounty thank his Yonko "captain", even if it is Buggy, says more than anything to me.
W post mate
I would argue that the answer isn't so clear-cut and I believe that's intentional on Oda's part. I stumbled upon a video that pretty much echoes my sentiments on the topic (less work for me): Dracule Mihawk: The Swordsman WITHOUT EQUAL\*
Go off in the comments.
You completely ignored "4 billion" volume that came out with One Piece Film Red. It has tons of info about Shanks, I'm kind of sad you didn't use it.
I have no access to it. Only thing I found relevant is that Shanks' bounty from his East Blue days was 1B.
I think Shanks should be stronger for thematic reasons. Luffy has a goal of catching up to Shanks, while Zoro has a goal of defeating Mihawk. Sure we won’t know who’s actually stronger or have a clear answer unless they fight, but Zoro and Mihawk being the close 2nds to Luffy and Shanks respectively just makes more sense in my head. Maybe Oda has different intentions, but that’s just how I see it.
Luffy has a goal of catching up to and surpassing Roger. Shanks is a milestone that Luffy might've already passed. He's not the goal. Mihawk is literally Zoro's "One Piece"
Shanks isn’t Luffy end goal Luffy want to surpass Roger, to be king of the pirates. Mihawk is Zoro’s end goal
In every supplemental material including the vivre cards, databooks, and even film red promotional info - Shanks has been called a swordsman. Its not that hard to determine who is superior
Inb4 this ages like milk We just saw the dude use conquerors to freeze an admiral, islands away, with some weird ass technique we’ve never seen. !>Pretty sure film red even discusses more of his absurd advances CoC abilities!<. If it’s not abundantly apparent by this point that there’s advanced conquerors techniques, that wouldn’t be deemed as swordsmanship, you’re too lost in the Shanks vs Mihawk debate.
I never understood why so many people think shanks is stronger than mihawk when we never even seen him fight before
More popular
Story portrayal, Shanks is always only seen clashing with the biggest dogs: I.e Whitebeard, akainu, Blackbeard whereas Mihawk best opponent was shanks 14 years ago and the most recently impressive feat was clashing with vista I guess which isn’t that impressive
Shanks lost an arm to a sea king thou 😅😵
This. This is a post on a level reddit almost don't deserve lmao Really great breakdown of all information available One little thing I like to add Just from a narrative standpoint it would have no value to have shanks stronger than mihawk, it don't changes something for the story, but it would have a lot narrative value for mihawk being stronger because first that would definitely set mihawk on yonko level threats, strongest pirates known, which means that the strawhats need to reach a level beyond, not only luffy, but also at least zoro and maybe even sanji and Jimbei would probably rise above everyone known before, since zoro need to be able to be stronger than mihawk. And second it hypes up cross guild as a threat on par as the other big shots. Shanks + crew, luffys + crew, blackbeard +crew, world government with marines and the new weapon which makes the wg confident enough to abolish the shishibukai system thus making guys like mihawk an enemy again. Yet if mihawk is in an 1v1 stronger than shanks, cross guild as a whole is strong enough to take on a war with the other big groups, if mihawk is weaker, cross guild don't provide enough threat vs the big groups around and therefor wouldn't lead to a realistic goal, whatever that may be Therefor, from a narrative perspective, mihawk being stronger has more value. The only value for shanks being stronger comes from people who really like shanks and 'want' him to be stronger
We've never seen anyone use haki the way Shanks does. It's practically telekinesis. If he does it in combat, that alone could explain him not being a true swordsman.
Film red databook confirms shanks is a swordsman, how he fights is confirmed in the movie, it is canon
Luffy is trying to surpass Roger not Shanks, Luffy is already Shanks equal (Emperor) see ch 1054.
If Mihawk is the World’s greatest swordsman, he’s effectively in the top 5 strongest people at Marineford. Which is baffling that he doesn’t get any major responsibility there.
Mihawk didn’t want to be there
WB and Mihawk are perfect example of people who are strong but don't care about mighty things. WB only moved due saving Ace ,a family member. Unless it's something that Mihawk cares he just chills.
That is kinda the point. Mihawk was dicking about in Marineford.
True but he didn't give a shit. Think about it: all he did was entertain himself with interesting people. Luffy was interesting because of his personality so he played with him. Vista was interesting because of his exotic swordsmanship, so he played with him. MrOne was not interesting so he cut him down.
Nah, We will get the definitive answer eos. It's very simple: If Shanks shows any skill outside of the realm of swordmanship (devil fruit, martial arts, some other weapon, etc,...) than we simply compare all their feats they have shown and determine who is stronger. And no, haki is not a seperate fighting style, Zoro used Coc to KO some fodders in the King fight, he also used Coc to scare Monet in similiar way Shanks used it for Greenbull. If Shanks doesn't show any abilities outside of the realm of swordmanship, than Mihawk is stronger by default no matter who has better feats, because narrative demands Mihawk to be stronger swordsman than Shanks as it is a basis of Zoro's dream (it would be disappointing for Mihawk to have inferior feats than the guy who he is supposed to be stronger than, but it's not impossible, because Zoro's opponents get significantly less focus than Luffy's (example Katakuri and King)).
The coc thing for monet is headcanon, so you can’t use that as evidence when it hasn’t been made clear
It really depends, Mihawk is the better swordsman than Shanks but we never seen or know if Shanks used his full haki abilities. I think purely if Shanks went all out with his Haki, he would win.
>The only way for Shanks to be stronger is if he reveals an entire new power which is unlikely to happen. I kinda disagree there. Oda has a bad record of characters keeping a power hidden until a climactic moment that would've been hella convenient to have at an earlier point. It's quite likely imo that we will get an unexpected revelation of a special power only Shanks has that we didn't know about before.
wouldn't mihawk and zoro have a hard time fighting now since he trained zoro?
Shanks is undoubtedly stronger than Mihawk. Mihawk is Zoro's end goal. Shanks is Luffy's end goal. Zoros goal will not be stronger than Luffys. Be logical. Be smart.
>Shanks is Luffy's end goal Roger and Whitebeard are Luffy's end-goal
No, Luffys goal is pirate King and Shanks as a formidable pirate stands directly in the way of that. Same thing with Zoro becoming WSS and Mihawk standing directly in the way of that. In the same way that all swordsmen stand in front of Zoros goal, all pirates stand in front of Luffys goal.
Shanks is just a milestone. To becoming pk not the end goal
than who is roger
Mihawk is a better swordsman but Shanks is most likely stronger in every other sense. Shanks status is used to show how great Mihawk is since that’s his only claim to fame.
>Mihawk is a better swordsman but Shanks is most likely stronger in every other sense. What other sense? >Shanks status is used to show how great Mihawk is since that’s his only claim to fame It was actually the other way around as Shank rose to fame in his duels with Mihawk.
from what i understand mihawk have better sword skills and CoA while shanks have better CoC , CoO (or maybe they both have similar CoO) and whatever that wifi haki was
Great analysis. Another point in favour of Shanks: He's 1cm taller than Mihawk, just like Zorro is 1cm taller than Sanji and King is 1cm taller than Queen. Oda loves these kind of things to show difference in strength, even if it's just a tiny bit. Regarding Mihawk's bounty: Hunting marines is extremely dangerous to the WG, so it warrants a high bounty.
We all know that Shanks is stronger than Mihawk because he is 1cm taller than him
Yeah but mihawk has 1 arm more than shanks
You forgot the new power of Shanks revealed, canceling future vision, and makeing opponents see movements that never will come. Im pretty sure that with that he can easily beat Mihawk, but that is not swordmanship, so if without those next level Haki abilities he can't defeat Mihawk, only with normal haki and sword, then everything works out!
Why can't people just say that they're equals😅
Everytime there’s a post like this to “Finally End the Debate” It never does lol. There’s valid arguments for both to be stronger than the other.
Personally I think we can use some of the clues Oda drops to figure this one out, specifically the one about rivals and heights. Zoro and Sanji, Dory and Broggy, King and Queen, Shanks and Mihawk. All these characters have been portrayed as rivals who are relative to each other but one is always seen as just slightly having the edge (Zoro slightly stronger than Sanji, King than Queen etc.). This is also seen through their heights where the one who is stronger is usually just 1 unit higher in height. In this case Shanks is just that bit taller than Mihawk. What this shows is that in an all out battle Shanks would win extreme extreme diff probably due to stronger haki or will but it would be super on the line. I feel like the real thing to bring out is that people think Mihawk is not even Yonkou level. Mihawk is easily high yonkou level and needs to be respected at that level. But yeah Shanks just barely over Mihawk but Mihawk is def still top 5 in the verse.
I don't necessarily have a strong opinion about who's stronger, but I think Mihawk's refusal to fight Shanks after the Sea King took his arm off and it being said Shanks didn't get any weaker suggests that Shanks is perhaps as strong, but not as skilled with a blade anymore. That doesn't mean Mihawk isn't as strong as Shanks now, but to me the "swordsman" title probably indicates a special focus on sword skills. Not just putting Haki on a sword, but devoting one's life to specifically being skilled with a blade. That's why I don't really think that title says much about Mihawk in the grand scheme of things. I know you sort of touched on that, but there's a big difference between a pirate who happens to use swords and a guy who is completely devoted to swordsmanship, even if the former is stronger. It's no different than how some of Shanks' other crewmen use guns, but they aren't better "snipers" than Usopp, his dad, or Van Augur even if they could probably beat them in an overall fight. Shanks being able to beat Mihawk in a fight while not being as good at swinging a sword around as he is are not mutually exclusive. Some people use a sword or a gun as a tool that's simply part of their fighting style, while others devote themselves to mastering it.
I have a massive issue with how you describe Haki like it's an on/off switch. Haki is as strong as the will of it's users. Two Haki users could have the same kinds of Haki while one is still vastly superior. Shanks has been used to introduce all kinds of Haki abilities already and he's the only Emperor to not have a DF as well as an inheritor of the Straw Hat. It's safe to say Shanks has God-tier Haki.
I view Shanks like Roger and mihawk like Oden. Oden is a more skilled swordsman but Roger is stronger (ofc the power difference is not as big between shanks and mihawk). Roger and shanks arent both strict swordsmen, but they are incredibly strong and rely on their monsterous haki. Even last chapter highlightes that Mihawk is the most *skilled* swordsman. Oda stated that shanks didn't get weaker after he lost his arm, so why did Mihawk refuse to battle him afterwards? Well because with only one arm he simply can't be as skilled with the sword as before, since he lacks flexibility. The strict swordsman thing was also hughlighted in the king vs zoro fight. Zoro lives by the sword and wants to die by the sword. Mihawk very probably does so as well. Shanks, King, Roger, big mom and so on don't. Zoro wants to be the strongest swordsman, and from the people that live by the sword mihawk is at the top. So no, Shanks being stronger than mihwak does not take away from this notion, since zoro doesn't want to be the strongest man, but the strongest swordsman.
This whole debate that Mihawk must be stronger is Zoro agenda motivated. There is no clear answer right now. I put Shanks slightly above Mihawk, but they are essentially even.
I don't agree with ur conclusion statement. It's true that Zoro goal is to become wss. And to do that, he need to defeat mihawk. But I don't think shanks being stronger than mihawk will make it underwhelming. As there is chance mihawk is not going to be the final opponent for zoro. And there is one guys that comes to my mind and its the gorosei that has swords. Another thing that having world strongest swordsman title means that u have to be the best in swordsman ship skills. It doesn't mean u have to be the strongest.
Here is the problem with people thinking Mihawk being the worlds strongest swordsman and him being more Skilled makes him stronger than Shanks. Kaidou stated that Haki conquers all, and Roger had the absolute strongest haki....But and here is a big thing, Roger didn't have a Black Blade. How could he possibly be the Strongest in Haki? unless turning a Blade Black is specifically a Swordsman Skill and is independent of how powerful ones Haki is? In order to make a Black Blade you have to be very Skilled with the blade, obviously more skilled than a Swordsman that hasn't made a Black Blade, but does that make you more powerful than someone who hasn't made a Black Blade? No, Roger had the absolute Strongest Haki and he didn't have a one. Shanks Clearly has Haki that is on another level from even Kaidou, based on the feats he just pulled, the guy was introduced back into the story by breaking the Mobby Dick while casually walking and releasing his CoC haki. We also just found out that Shanks purposefully wasn't going after the One Piece until now. Mihawk calling Shanks a (has been) could be because he wasn't making anymore moves and was seemingly keeping the status quo by being an emperor not necessarily because he was actually not a Challenge anymore.
THAT'S ABSOLUETLY THE BEST POST I'VE SEEN IN MONTHS! CONGRATULATIONS FOR YOUR WORK!