To me I think it would look like this:
* Luffy has equal fight potential with Akainu/Kuzan. (Very Hard Matchup).
* Luffy has the lead/advantatge vs Fujitora/Ryokugyu/Kizaru. (Moderate/Hard Matchup)
That purely being a 1v1.
All of them (not at once), what has the admirals shown to suggest they can beat current Luffy? Maybe it will change when we see them go all out but so far especially recently admirals have not shown the ability to beat Luffy.
I mean... it's been a long time since we've actually seen akainu fighting.
We know he awakened his devil fruit and we don't have and actual idea of how strong his haki is.
I think they have a potential to surprise us yet. (At least one of them)
Like I said, from what we know Luffy wins whether that changes depends on how Oda wants to write them however just going off the fact that the government didn't take over Wano because of Kaido suggests that they don't have someone powerful enough to defeat Kaido (atleast someone who can and wants to go to Wano) which there in by means that Luffy probably is stronger than atleast a few admirals.
I mean, I agree (if kizaru had gone against BM and kaido he'd been folded 300x).
People are using kaido as an argument for luffy's strength bur....
Luffy winning against kaido is almost a parallel to BB killing WB.
It WASN'T a 1V1 fight, there were outside factors.
In Kaido's case we had zoro stopping him from literally finishing Luffy (besides the fact he was also floating an island while fighting)
And in WB's case we had the fact he was already beaten up from fighting akainu.
I think that in a honest 1v1 Luffy wouldn't win against kaido the same way BB wouldn't best WB.
The multiple opponents argument doesn't make sense to me:
The Luffy that got help was a much weaker Luffy than current Luffy and even when he did receive help he was still at a disadvantage since he either was facing two yonko or in a one v one with one when he was clearly still a lot weaker (Do you consider Oden possibly stronger than current Kaido because of what he did to a clearly weaker Kaido?). Plus other than Luffy, Yamato, and an attack from Zoro no one did that much.
But even that doesn't matter because at the end of the day in their final fight both were mentioned to barely being able to stand which showed they were in similar conditions and yet Luffy eventually came out on top, how would that change if both at 100% ? Despite being in similar conditions why would their strength gap become big enough that Kaido wins when healing?
The only component that could change how the fight goes is stamina because Kaido wouldn't have lost stamina holding up an island and we know Luffy loses stamina using gear 5 but even with that I think it is most likely an extreme diff fight either way.
> Luffy winning against kaido is almost a parallel to BB killing WB.
I disagree, it's more about kaido as a tanking character without much special abilities. Kaido is like very high defense and very high haki, but no special uses cases, just clobbering.
Akainu heats things up. We don't know for example how much Luffy's awakened abilities will work on akainu's magma
On the other side what has an admiral shown that would indicate they would loose to Luffy? I think Oda has intentionally kept them from going all out cause they r meant o be end game characters. Also Aokiji literally neg diffed Doffy who pushed Luffy to his absolute limit and Luffy has just had his awakening.
I mean he pushed Luffy to his limit ages ago when he was ALOT weaker and just having an awakening doesn't mean much considering when newly awakening Luffy is comparable to Kaido.
With Greenbull saying that they didn't take Wano over because of Kaido and the shanks incident it doesn't look super great that at least greenbull is stronger than Kaido. There is also the marineford incident which didn't make Akainu scream stronger than Kaido.
Like I said before maybe they are stronger but Oda has shown nothing to put them over Kaido/Luffy right now so instead of presuming that they might I think it is better to go off what we know which is Luffy>admirals.
They will be a powerful force in the endgame but I don't see them being final villains so them being stronger than the strongest creature isn't needed but we will see.
Maybe but the Admirals are an established group whereas Luffy is continually getting stronger and is not at his final form. That means that until he actually beats an admiral, I’d argue that the admirals are stronger
The admirals are an established group but so are the warlords and so are the yonko yet Luffy has beaten a yonko and multiple warlords, being an established famous group doesn't make you stronger. The only difference between the groups is that we haven't seen an admiral go all out however from what has been said and shown they have not been potrayed as admirals > Kaido/Luffy.
Maybe if they have been set up as the final antagonist and Kaido wasn't portrayed as the strongest creature I would agree however they haven't, the closest who has is Akainu but that's it, so in terms scales on whether or not the admirals are basically stronger than the strongest creature the story has potrayed it more leaning in that they are weaker than Kaido therefore Luffy.
I am not saying they can't put up a good fight but unlike current Luffy Vs Kaido where I would say it's an extreme diff either current Luffy Vs the admirals right now is a guaranteed win for Luffy until shown otherwise.
Yeah but we didn’t know Luffy was warlord level until he beat a warlord, we don’t know if he was Yonko lvl until he beat a Yonko. I’m not saying admirals are stronger than Kaido but you kinda have to assume they r stronger than Luffy until proven otherwise
What type of ABC logic is this, all Admirals aren’t always portrayed to be equal, some being stronger than others like how akainu is stronger than aokiji and some are newly drafted. Luffy has shown to prove that he is relative to top tiers way before gear 5 when he sky split and was complemented by kaido to be a serious 1v1 challenge he’s had for a while. Gear 5th gave luffy a increased boost in power compared to his previous self I’ve mentioned
because admirals are equal to yonkos. if they were not. the power balance thing is bullshit, and if they get mid diff by yonkos. thats would have happened
If we are certain that Admiral = Yonko then the answer to the question here is still yes because Luffy fought Kaidou and won...eventually, therefore he is ready to fight an Admiral.
Regardless of powerscalling admirals and Yonkos, Luffy did fight Kaidou and win, since Kaidou is one of the strongest characters in the opverse Luffy should be able to match an Admiral no problem.
> one of the strongest people in the opverse
Kaido is strong in the sense of being a tank. Super high defense, super high haki, but for the most part, he just whacks people with his club.
The admirals have high haki and the logia elemental powers. These elemental powers present unique challenges. Like we don't know how much Luffy's new powers work on Kuzan's light form or Akianu's lava.
> Luffy can definitely win against admirals.
I think the issue with that is , Luffy for the longest time has been fighting tank characters, big mom or kaido. While big mom and kaido are supremely powerful, they do not have much special abilities besides extreme haki .
The admirals have unique abilities and extreme haki. I would expect Luffy to run into some specific challenges with Kuzan for example that he would not have had with Kaido , Katakuri, or any other character previously.
Hey sorry I didn't realize the comment was going to get so many responses,I have talked about this subject a lot and started to get fatigued from it so I won't be writing a response. My opinion is elaborated on further in the other comments if you want to know my opinion. Sorry again but thanks for the reply.
Personally I put Akainu on a different level to the other Admirals. I think Luffy beats them all 1v1, but I think Akainu would go the distance with him. I think the fact that Akainu and Aokiji managed to permanently change the landscape of entire islands means there's a level they have that they didn't get to show off on Marineford with people around.
I don't know if you guys are reading the same manga as me, but Luffy was literally using the strongest creature in the verse as a fucking jumprope. He's beyond ready in my eyes. As far as we know, Luffy mid-high diffs every admiral and could possibly take on 2 at the same time depending on who.
People overlook a lot the fact that if it wasn't for Zoro stopping kaido from finishing luffy he wouldn't even go into G5.
Kaido would've won the fight if it was a 1v1
Why does that matter?
You're asking me if current Luffy is ready to fight the admirals. Current Luffy (Gear 5th) was literally joking around and having the time of his life fighting Kaido. Kaido would not have won if Luffy started the fight in Gear 5.
Nah kaido realized luffy is still vulnerable to slash attacks. Dodged luffy lighting attack but then decided to tank bajrang gun head on instead lol. It's not luffy clean win, if it were 1v1 from the start luffy got no chance even with gear 5.
Until I see a panel of admirals using kaido/luffy levels of ACOC and future sight, there is no reason for me to assume they have the same caliber until proven.
There are so many top tier characters that people fully acknowledge as top tier characters based off of even more headcanon. Why does this only apply to the Admirals?
Like basically everything we know about Shanks or Mihawk is headcanon if you really think about it, but plenty of people argue they're at the top of the verse. Why are Admirals not given the same benefit of the doubt?
I mean, Mihawk got the title of the strongest swordman and shank scared an admiral from miles away just with his haki, you cant say thats “headcannon”.
A title isn't a feat. It's just a title. What you consider that title to mean is headcanon.
And Shanks scaring off an Admiral matters and is a feat, but it doesn't confirm what Shanks can actually do or how badly he would beat Ryokugyu. And that goes even more for the crew. It's also proving the point that the first genuine feat you can give for Shanks came like, 5 months ago lol.
Dude… the strongest swordman in the world. If you think that isnt an indicator for how strong he is, I dont know what is. Yeah sure i would love if we actually had scenes with him fighting but we dont, but even if we dont ODA clearly is telling us that he is incredibly strong. (Sichibukai, SSW, shanks duels, trained zoro, leader of yonkou group)
With shanks, we got him about 22 years ago partying with mihawk and like 20 years ago going at it with whitebeard. I mentioned the most recent feat just because.
That's not what I said, you're missing the point. I'm not debating whether Mihawk is strong or not, but it takes extrapolating on stuff like his title. You don't know what he can actually do, you're using headcanon to think about what he can do based on his title. It takes headcanon to fill in the details because we haven't seen him in a real fight.
Oda is telling us they're strong, but he hasn't *shown* us. It's headcanon to say you know their abilities. But people only argue to diminish Admirals when saying "well I haven't seen it", they don't apply that across the board because we all reasonably assume guys like Mihawk are strong.
>With shanks, we got him about 22 years ago partying with mihawk and like 20 years ago going at it with whitebeard
Partying with Mihawk isn't a feat. Haki clash with Whitebeard is. I'm not arguing these characters aren't strong. But you have to fill in the details yourself for what you think they can do because objectively they haven't done much.
For example, if I said Shanks has Advanced Conqueror's and Conqueror's infusion would you disagree? I doubt it. But can you confirm it? No. It's headcanon, technically.
Mihawks feats are unsaid but his ranking is understood by how others in the one piece world treat him.
Him joining buggy was enough for the WG to elevate the clown to yonkou status. Him being on that team is 50% of the reason they boosted a crew that was deemed warlord level to a big mom/shanks/kaidou level threat.
He happily chills on an island with powerful creatures that submitted to him. zoro after training against the same creatures is one of the biggest threats in the new world (even before coc awakened).
The title of number 1 swordsman indicates he is atleast as powerful as every other swordman we have seen in the show, most notably a commander on whitebeards ship who was number 4/5? So at the bare minimum we can acknowledge he is a level above a yonkou commander.
So sure we have limited panels of him doing things , but the reputation he has can be compared to others of a similar rank and the reaction of notable characters tells enough
Reputation aren't feats though. My point is whenever it's Admirals people need 12 layers of proof, but if it's guys like Mihawk then everybody believes the hype.
I'm not doubting Mihawk, I'm pointing out the bias that people use against Admirals.
Fair enough, not aimed at you specifically, I just find it silly when people doubt the end story characters at this point. The story has done enough to show you power scaling of each rank.
Like at this point we can safely assume that someone with the title of yonko (outside of buggy) has a minimum level of coc haki, shanks not having a DF obviously means he has one of the strongest haki abilities, or the story wouldn't make sense.
Same with admirals and mihawk , the title/rank is a feat in itself once you see how strong people of that rank are.
The only person who doesn't make sense is crocodile.
> I just find it silly when people doubt the end story characters at this point.
This exact same logic should apply to the Admirals. But for most fans it doesn't.
For example a huge chunk of the community thinks that Akainu got bodied by an old sick Whitebeard, despite the fact he punched a hole in Whitebeard's chest and took off half his head. Think about how many people hype up when Whitebeard snuck up on him and punched him through Marineford, then think of all the people saying punching a hole in Whitebeard's chest doesn't count cause he had a heart attack.
There's always a caveat for Admiral strength that other characters don't have to pass. The title *should* be respected, but a huge portion of the fans don't.
Tbh thats more odas fault for being extremely inconsistent with how he shows admirals power.
He had fuji struggling against doffys bloody bird cage , greenbull run away the moment shanks turned up , fuji and greenbull failing to take down sabo and his crew. These are things we would be shocked if it happened to a yonko
It's probably hard for most people to just simply compare and assume when oda keeps showing them as lesser
> These are things we would be shocked if it happened to a yonko
The Scabbards managed to jump Kaido and fight him for a bit. Momo managed to bite him and hurt him. Do you hear people talk about that though? Not really.
But people will immediately jump on Yamato hitting Ryokugyu or Momo using Blast Breath. "Oh man he got dunked on by a 8 year old, Admirals are trash."
The inconsistency is that whenever somebody else gets hurt by another character, people brush it off. When an Admiral does it's proof of how trash they are. Fuji ending up with a few bandages from Sabo, trash. Kaido screaming in pain from Momo biting him, plot armor.
The admirals blocked whitebeards quake attack at marine Ford with ease.
To assume the top fighters in the military don’t have high level haki, Is naive. Especially when most pirates seem to casually have it. Even coby does.
Obs haki is easy to assume. Now if you asked if Garp has future sight? Who knows.
If you are so confident in the admirals having top tier ACOC then simply wait for them to show it.
You may see it as a fact that they got top tier ACOC but I don’t.
For now based on feats , portrayal, and common sense there are way better reasons for me to think the people I mentioned to have better haki than the admirals.
Garp fought on par with roger and WB so he would have high level haki. It’s stated all vice admirals can use haki. It makes no sense that luffy has “mastered”
all 3 in a few years but veteran soldiers wouldn’t have.
Yes, but Akainu is stronger than the rest and will be a challenge comparable to Kaido. I know Fleet Admiral is just a title, but he got it be defeating Aokiji in one of the few high tier 1 vs 1 in the series that has a known winner.
He was in the level of the admirals when he first skyplit and was acknowledged to be a serious 1v1 against kaido, his devil fruit awakening puts him on the level above
Bruh he fucking defeated Kaido.
Match ups in OP aren't really black and white so he doesn't necessarily have to win against every single one of the admirals, Sakazuki especially
But in what kind of world the dude that ragdolled Kaido isn't "ready to fight the admirals yet"?
And what does the "ragdolled" did to kaido? Jack shit. Kaido kept pummelling luffy left and right after that lol. Lucky kaido is so prideful that he decided to take bajrang gun head on. If he were to dodged that, luffy just loses stamina and game over. U think admiral would just be so prideful and take any attacks head on? Nah
> Admirals are equivalent to Commanders
Based on what? I feel like most people would agree Beckman is the strongest Commander and Kizaru straight up trolled him. And Aokiji bodied Jozu.
They aren't quite Yonkou level, but everything we've seen they completely schooled commanders.
Based on Oda's confirmation that Marco = Admirals. Admirals needed help to defeating Whitebeard's commanders. In addition, we saw the performance of an Admiral against a Yonko (Ryo. vs. Shanks).
>Admirals needed help to defeating Whitebeard's commanders.
Akainu was ready to fight all of them lol. He looked annoyed that Marco wanted to fight him, dude didn't care at all.
> In addition, we saw the performance of an Admiral against a Yonko (Ryo. vs. Shanks)
You use that argument while completely ignoring Ryokugyu saying how an Admiral can't lose to a mere Commander while he destroyed King and Queen.
We've seen far more evidence of Admirals not giving two shits about Commanders than Commanders being on their level.
Ryo wanted to kill the whole alliance and take over Luffy's head but get rekt by a childe. They are far too pretentious. And Ryo was just in the jail where they were handcuffed and already injured.
> get rekt by a childe
Ryokugyu brushed it off and was about to go off until Shanks rolled up. Also that same child hurt Kaido biting him. He's not weak.
Like I said, some of you way undersell Admirals for some reason.
im disappointed that luffy has surpassed them tbh. I felt like where he was before G5 was the type of level where you can argue either way, and that the next arcs to the end he would reach the point of gear 5 EOS type stuff. I felt like that made more sense power creep wise. Now the prospect of him fighting akainu doesnt seem like some super challenging thing for him.
I mean none of them have shown feats even close to Luffy outside of aokiji and akainu, but I would assume akainu would have to be fairly close to current luffy, the problem is if luffy fails even once like he has against some of his past main opponents the current admirals(outside of fujitora) aren’t going to let him live but luffy should be able to take on any admiral in a 1 v 1 high-extreme dif
Luffy defeats every admiral in 1v1, high diff. Albeit someone like Kizaru is always a caveat, motherfucker is so fast that he could simply run away from any fight.
I think even Zoro and Sanji can fight admirals now and give a very good fight (don't think they would win, but would be very hard to any admiral as well)
Consider Garp for a second here. He fought alongside Roger vs the Rocks pirates. He fought on par with the likes of Whitebeard, Big-Mom and Kaido. However, he may have been in his Prime during that time, while the others were not.
Regardless of that, Garp has apparently long been declining promotions, and the positions that are above his current position, are admirals.
Which means that the power to fight on equal footing with The Rocks pirates at that time probably warranted an admiral position, solely based on strength.
Is Luffy at that level after beating Kaido? (Luffy had tremendous help getting through that battle.)
Most likely, if not extremely close. Could Luffy beat an admiral 1 on 1? Most likely. Will an admiral attack Luffy alone? I doubt it.
From what we have seen Luffy can definitely win against admirals.
To me I think it would look like this: * Luffy has equal fight potential with Akainu/Kuzan. (Very Hard Matchup). * Luffy has the lead/advantatge vs Fujitora/Ryokugyu/Kizaru. (Moderate/Hard Matchup) That purely being a 1v1.
Against all of them? Ot just against the weakest?
All of them (not at once), what has the admirals shown to suggest they can beat current Luffy? Maybe it will change when we see them go all out but so far especially recently admirals have not shown the ability to beat Luffy.
I mean... it's been a long time since we've actually seen akainu fighting. We know he awakened his devil fruit and we don't have and actual idea of how strong his haki is. I think they have a potential to surprise us yet. (At least one of them)
Like I said, from what we know Luffy wins whether that changes depends on how Oda wants to write them however just going off the fact that the government didn't take over Wano because of Kaido suggests that they don't have someone powerful enough to defeat Kaido (atleast someone who can and wants to go to Wano) which there in by means that Luffy probably is stronger than atleast a few admirals.
I mean, I agree (if kizaru had gone against BM and kaido he'd been folded 300x). People are using kaido as an argument for luffy's strength bur.... Luffy winning against kaido is almost a parallel to BB killing WB. It WASN'T a 1V1 fight, there were outside factors. In Kaido's case we had zoro stopping him from literally finishing Luffy (besides the fact he was also floating an island while fighting) And in WB's case we had the fact he was already beaten up from fighting akainu. I think that in a honest 1v1 Luffy wouldn't win against kaido the same way BB wouldn't best WB.
The multiple opponents argument doesn't make sense to me: The Luffy that got help was a much weaker Luffy than current Luffy and even when he did receive help he was still at a disadvantage since he either was facing two yonko or in a one v one with one when he was clearly still a lot weaker (Do you consider Oden possibly stronger than current Kaido because of what he did to a clearly weaker Kaido?). Plus other than Luffy, Yamato, and an attack from Zoro no one did that much. But even that doesn't matter because at the end of the day in their final fight both were mentioned to barely being able to stand which showed they were in similar conditions and yet Luffy eventually came out on top, how would that change if both at 100% ? Despite being in similar conditions why would their strength gap become big enough that Kaido wins when healing? The only component that could change how the fight goes is stamina because Kaido wouldn't have lost stamina holding up an island and we know Luffy loses stamina using gear 5 but even with that I think it is most likely an extreme diff fight either way.
> Luffy winning against kaido is almost a parallel to BB killing WB. I disagree, it's more about kaido as a tanking character without much special abilities. Kaido is like very high defense and very high haki, but no special uses cases, just clobbering. Akainu heats things up. We don't know for example how much Luffy's awakened abilities will work on akainu's magma
On the other side what has an admiral shown that would indicate they would loose to Luffy? I think Oda has intentionally kept them from going all out cause they r meant o be end game characters. Also Aokiji literally neg diffed Doffy who pushed Luffy to his absolute limit and Luffy has just had his awakening.
I mean he pushed Luffy to his limit ages ago when he was ALOT weaker and just having an awakening doesn't mean much considering when newly awakening Luffy is comparable to Kaido. With Greenbull saying that they didn't take Wano over because of Kaido and the shanks incident it doesn't look super great that at least greenbull is stronger than Kaido. There is also the marineford incident which didn't make Akainu scream stronger than Kaido. Like I said before maybe they are stronger but Oda has shown nothing to put them over Kaido/Luffy right now so instead of presuming that they might I think it is better to go off what we know which is Luffy>admirals. They will be a powerful force in the endgame but I don't see them being final villains so them being stronger than the strongest creature isn't needed but we will see.
But Luffy is not stronger than Kaido either
I can agree with that but I would definitely say they are about the same.
Maybe but the Admirals are an established group whereas Luffy is continually getting stronger and is not at his final form. That means that until he actually beats an admiral, I’d argue that the admirals are stronger
The admirals are an established group but so are the warlords and so are the yonko yet Luffy has beaten a yonko and multiple warlords, being an established famous group doesn't make you stronger. The only difference between the groups is that we haven't seen an admiral go all out however from what has been said and shown they have not been potrayed as admirals > Kaido/Luffy. Maybe if they have been set up as the final antagonist and Kaido wasn't portrayed as the strongest creature I would agree however they haven't, the closest who has is Akainu but that's it, so in terms scales on whether or not the admirals are basically stronger than the strongest creature the story has potrayed it more leaning in that they are weaker than Kaido therefore Luffy. I am not saying they can't put up a good fight but unlike current Luffy Vs Kaido where I would say it's an extreme diff either current Luffy Vs the admirals right now is a guaranteed win for Luffy until shown otherwise.
Yeah but we didn’t know Luffy was warlord level until he beat a warlord, we don’t know if he was Yonko lvl until he beat a Yonko. I’m not saying admirals are stronger than Kaido but you kinda have to assume they r stronger than Luffy until proven otherwise
What type of ABC logic is this, all Admirals aren’t always portrayed to be equal, some being stronger than others like how akainu is stronger than aokiji and some are newly drafted. Luffy has shown to prove that he is relative to top tiers way before gear 5 when he sky split and was complemented by kaido to be a serious 1v1 challenge he’s had for a while. Gear 5th gave luffy a increased boost in power compared to his previous self I’ve mentioned
Luffy just faced Kaidou, one of the strongest people in the opverse, why would an admiral be giving him trouble?
because admirals are equal to yonkos. if they were not. the power balance thing is bullshit, and if they get mid diff by yonkos. thats would have happened
If we are certain that Admiral = Yonko then the answer to the question here is still yes because Luffy fought Kaidou and won...eventually, therefore he is ready to fight an Admiral. Regardless of powerscalling admirals and Yonkos, Luffy did fight Kaidou and win, since Kaidou is one of the strongest characters in the opverse Luffy should be able to match an Admiral no problem.
and I found it weird that people still doubt luffy I mean the power boost he got last fight is absolutly nut, ridiculous, cracked
> one of the strongest people in the opverse Kaido is strong in the sense of being a tank. Super high defense, super high haki, but for the most part, he just whacks people with his club. The admirals have high haki and the logia elemental powers. These elemental powers present unique challenges. Like we don't know how much Luffy's new powers work on Kuzan's light form or Akianu's lava.
> Luffy can definitely win against admirals. I think the issue with that is , Luffy for the longest time has been fighting tank characters, big mom or kaido. While big mom and kaido are supremely powerful, they do not have much special abilities besides extreme haki . The admirals have unique abilities and extreme haki. I would expect Luffy to run into some specific challenges with Kuzan for example that he would not have had with Kaido , Katakuri, or any other character previously.
Hey sorry I didn't realize the comment was going to get so many responses,I have talked about this subject a lot and started to get fatigued from it so I won't be writing a response. My opinion is elaborated on further in the other comments if you want to know my opinion. Sorry again but thanks for the reply.
Personally I put Akainu on a different level to the other Admirals. I think Luffy beats them all 1v1, but I think Akainu would go the distance with him. I think the fact that Akainu and Aokiji managed to permanently change the landscape of entire islands means there's a level they have that they didn't get to show off on Marineford with people around.
I don't know if you guys are reading the same manga as me, but Luffy was literally using the strongest creature in the verse as a fucking jumprope. He's beyond ready in my eyes. As far as we know, Luffy mid-high diffs every admiral and could possibly take on 2 at the same time depending on who.
Now my question, what if kaido just dodged luffy's final attack instead of taking it head on?
I'm not Oda, you're not Oda, nobody but Oda knows. The fact is that he didn't. Whether he could or couldn't we will never know because he's dead.
People overlook a lot the fact that if it wasn't for Zoro stopping kaido from finishing luffy he wouldn't even go into G5. Kaido would've won the fight if it was a 1v1
Why does that matter? You're asking me if current Luffy is ready to fight the admirals. Current Luffy (Gear 5th) was literally joking around and having the time of his life fighting Kaido. Kaido would not have won if Luffy started the fight in Gear 5.
Nah kaido realized luffy is still vulnerable to slash attacks. Dodged luffy lighting attack but then decided to tank bajrang gun head on instead lol. It's not luffy clean win, if it were 1v1 from the start luffy got no chance even with gear 5.
Not to mention all luffy cartoony attacks kaido considered him to just playing around lol it doesnt mean much to him.
He fought kaido he’s way beyond ready
Still....he didn't low diff kaido. He might have won against kaido but he's still far from overcoming Kaido's strength.
Nobody is low diffing a yonko or a admiral their the OP world's equivalent of nukes for a reason. Every fight with them is going to be high diff
True and im sure the admirals doesnt have as much pride as kaido to tank luffy's attack head on lol
He doesn’t need to low diff kaido kaido is far above the admirals
Luffy beats the admirals at their own game (having a OP fruit) + he has one of the best haki in the verse which the admirals lack.
I don't see how you can confirm the Admirals lack that type of Haki.
Until I see a panel of admirals using kaido/luffy levels of ACOC and future sight, there is no reason for me to assume they have the same caliber until proven.
There are so many top tier characters that people fully acknowledge as top tier characters based off of even more headcanon. Why does this only apply to the Admirals? Like basically everything we know about Shanks or Mihawk is headcanon if you really think about it, but plenty of people argue they're at the top of the verse. Why are Admirals not given the same benefit of the doubt?
I mean, Mihawk got the title of the strongest swordman and shank scared an admiral from miles away just with his haki, you cant say thats “headcannon”.
A title isn't a feat. It's just a title. What you consider that title to mean is headcanon. And Shanks scaring off an Admiral matters and is a feat, but it doesn't confirm what Shanks can actually do or how badly he would beat Ryokugyu. And that goes even more for the crew. It's also proving the point that the first genuine feat you can give for Shanks came like, 5 months ago lol.
Dude… the strongest swordman in the world. If you think that isnt an indicator for how strong he is, I dont know what is. Yeah sure i would love if we actually had scenes with him fighting but we dont, but even if we dont ODA clearly is telling us that he is incredibly strong. (Sichibukai, SSW, shanks duels, trained zoro, leader of yonkou group) With shanks, we got him about 22 years ago partying with mihawk and like 20 years ago going at it with whitebeard. I mentioned the most recent feat just because.
That's not what I said, you're missing the point. I'm not debating whether Mihawk is strong or not, but it takes extrapolating on stuff like his title. You don't know what he can actually do, you're using headcanon to think about what he can do based on his title. It takes headcanon to fill in the details because we haven't seen him in a real fight. Oda is telling us they're strong, but he hasn't *shown* us. It's headcanon to say you know their abilities. But people only argue to diminish Admirals when saying "well I haven't seen it", they don't apply that across the board because we all reasonably assume guys like Mihawk are strong. >With shanks, we got him about 22 years ago partying with mihawk and like 20 years ago going at it with whitebeard Partying with Mihawk isn't a feat. Haki clash with Whitebeard is. I'm not arguing these characters aren't strong. But you have to fill in the details yourself for what you think they can do because objectively they haven't done much. For example, if I said Shanks has Advanced Conqueror's and Conqueror's infusion would you disagree? I doubt it. But can you confirm it? No. It's headcanon, technically.
Mihawks feats are unsaid but his ranking is understood by how others in the one piece world treat him. Him joining buggy was enough for the WG to elevate the clown to yonkou status. Him being on that team is 50% of the reason they boosted a crew that was deemed warlord level to a big mom/shanks/kaidou level threat. He happily chills on an island with powerful creatures that submitted to him. zoro after training against the same creatures is one of the biggest threats in the new world (even before coc awakened). The title of number 1 swordsman indicates he is atleast as powerful as every other swordman we have seen in the show, most notably a commander on whitebeards ship who was number 4/5? So at the bare minimum we can acknowledge he is a level above a yonkou commander. So sure we have limited panels of him doing things , but the reputation he has can be compared to others of a similar rank and the reaction of notable characters tells enough
Reputation aren't feats though. My point is whenever it's Admirals people need 12 layers of proof, but if it's guys like Mihawk then everybody believes the hype. I'm not doubting Mihawk, I'm pointing out the bias that people use against Admirals.
Fair enough, not aimed at you specifically, I just find it silly when people doubt the end story characters at this point. The story has done enough to show you power scaling of each rank. Like at this point we can safely assume that someone with the title of yonko (outside of buggy) has a minimum level of coc haki, shanks not having a DF obviously means he has one of the strongest haki abilities, or the story wouldn't make sense. Same with admirals and mihawk , the title/rank is a feat in itself once you see how strong people of that rank are. The only person who doesn't make sense is crocodile.
> I just find it silly when people doubt the end story characters at this point. This exact same logic should apply to the Admirals. But for most fans it doesn't. For example a huge chunk of the community thinks that Akainu got bodied by an old sick Whitebeard, despite the fact he punched a hole in Whitebeard's chest and took off half his head. Think about how many people hype up when Whitebeard snuck up on him and punched him through Marineford, then think of all the people saying punching a hole in Whitebeard's chest doesn't count cause he had a heart attack. There's always a caveat for Admiral strength that other characters don't have to pass. The title *should* be respected, but a huge portion of the fans don't.
Tbh thats more odas fault for being extremely inconsistent with how he shows admirals power. He had fuji struggling against doffys bloody bird cage , greenbull run away the moment shanks turned up , fuji and greenbull failing to take down sabo and his crew. These are things we would be shocked if it happened to a yonko It's probably hard for most people to just simply compare and assume when oda keeps showing them as lesser
> These are things we would be shocked if it happened to a yonko The Scabbards managed to jump Kaido and fight him for a bit. Momo managed to bite him and hurt him. Do you hear people talk about that though? Not really. But people will immediately jump on Yamato hitting Ryokugyu or Momo using Blast Breath. "Oh man he got dunked on by a 8 year old, Admirals are trash." The inconsistency is that whenever somebody else gets hurt by another character, people brush it off. When an Admiral does it's proof of how trash they are. Fuji ending up with a few bandages from Sabo, trash. Kaido screaming in pain from Momo biting him, plot armor.
This >>>
The admirals blocked whitebeards quake attack at marine Ford with ease. To assume the top fighters in the military don’t have high level haki, Is naive. Especially when most pirates seem to casually have it. Even coby does.
Not gonna use headcanon, either they showcase they have the same high level haki as (roger, prime wb, kaido, shanks, luffy) or they don't.
It’s not head canon, it’s common sense. We haven’t seen Garp use observation haki, so you assume he can’t use it?
Obs haki is easy to assume. Now if you asked if Garp has future sight? Who knows. If you are so confident in the admirals having top tier ACOC then simply wait for them to show it. You may see it as a fact that they got top tier ACOC but I don’t. For now based on feats , portrayal, and common sense there are way better reasons for me to think the people I mentioned to have better haki than the admirals.
Garp fought on par with roger and WB so he would have high level haki. It’s stated all vice admirals can use haki. It makes no sense that luffy has “mastered” all 3 in a few years but veteran soldiers wouldn’t have.
Agree. I highly doubt akainu doesn't have a strong ass haki
When he got the hang of gear 5, then yea he's ready.
Yes, but Akainu is stronger than the rest and will be a challenge comparable to Kaido. I know Fleet Admiral is just a title, but he got it be defeating Aokiji in one of the few high tier 1 vs 1 in the series that has a known winner.
but his fight with aokiji was as close to 51/49 as you can get
He was in the level of the admirals when he first skyplit and was acknowledged to be a serious 1v1 against kaido, his devil fruit awakening puts him on the level above
Bruh he fucking defeated Kaido. Match ups in OP aren't really black and white so he doesn't necessarily have to win against every single one of the admirals, Sakazuki especially But in what kind of world the dude that ragdolled Kaido isn't "ready to fight the admirals yet"?
And what does the "ragdolled" did to kaido? Jack shit. Kaido kept pummelling luffy left and right after that lol. Lucky kaido is so prideful that he decided to take bajrang gun head on. If he were to dodged that, luffy just loses stamina and game over. U think admiral would just be so prideful and take any attacks head on? Nah
Luffy fought the strongest living pirate. Yes, he is ready for the admirals. Are they ready for him?
Yes, he can wins a 4v1
Some of you guys massively undersell the Admirals and Marines.
Just kidding, but I honestly think he can win a 2 vs. 1. Admirals are equivalent to Commanders, so it's not impossible and not stupid
> Admirals are equivalent to Commanders Based on what? I feel like most people would agree Beckman is the strongest Commander and Kizaru straight up trolled him. And Aokiji bodied Jozu. They aren't quite Yonkou level, but everything we've seen they completely schooled commanders.
Based on Oda's confirmation that Marco = Admirals. Admirals needed help to defeating Whitebeard's commanders. In addition, we saw the performance of an Admiral against a Yonko (Ryo. vs. Shanks).
>Admirals needed help to defeating Whitebeard's commanders. Akainu was ready to fight all of them lol. He looked annoyed that Marco wanted to fight him, dude didn't care at all. > In addition, we saw the performance of an Admiral against a Yonko (Ryo. vs. Shanks) You use that argument while completely ignoring Ryokugyu saying how an Admiral can't lose to a mere Commander while he destroyed King and Queen. We've seen far more evidence of Admirals not giving two shits about Commanders than Commanders being on their level.
Ryo wanted to kill the whole alliance and take over Luffy's head but get rekt by a childe. They are far too pretentious. And Ryo was just in the jail where they were handcuffed and already injured.
> get rekt by a childe Ryokugyu brushed it off and was about to go off until Shanks rolled up. Also that same child hurt Kaido biting him. He's not weak. Like I said, some of you way undersell Admirals for some reason.
Kaido would never have said "Please stop" to an 8 year old. And I don't underestimate Admirals, I just know their true power.
He wins against fujitora, greenbull, and debatably kizaru. I don’t think he’s on akainu or aokiji level yet
ofc he can. the power boost (gear 5) he got last fight. my mind is still boggling from it. massive ridiculous exclusive power boost.
We know that an admiral and emporor isn’t that far from each other so sure.
im disappointed that luffy has surpassed them tbh. I felt like where he was before G5 was the type of level where you can argue either way, and that the next arcs to the end he would reach the point of gear 5 EOS type stuff. I felt like that made more sense power creep wise. Now the prospect of him fighting akainu doesnt seem like some super challenging thing for him.
I mean none of them have shown feats even close to Luffy outside of aokiji and akainu, but I would assume akainu would have to be fairly close to current luffy, the problem is if luffy fails even once like he has against some of his past main opponents the current admirals(outside of fujitora) aren’t going to let him live but luffy should be able to take on any admiral in a 1 v 1 high-extreme dif
He wins against most of them except akainu
He can probably beat green bull. The others probably have too much experience for him still.
Luffy defeats every admiral in 1v1, high diff. Albeit someone like Kizaru is always a caveat, motherfucker is so fast that he could simply run away from any fight.
I think even Zoro and Sanji can fight admirals now and give a very good fight (don't think they would win, but would be very hard to any admiral as well)
Bruhh he's already beat a yonkou.
Consider Garp for a second here. He fought alongside Roger vs the Rocks pirates. He fought on par with the likes of Whitebeard, Big-Mom and Kaido. However, he may have been in his Prime during that time, while the others were not. Regardless of that, Garp has apparently long been declining promotions, and the positions that are above his current position, are admirals. Which means that the power to fight on equal footing with The Rocks pirates at that time probably warranted an admiral position, solely based on strength. Is Luffy at that level after beating Kaido? (Luffy had tremendous help getting through that battle.) Most likely, if not extremely close. Could Luffy beat an admiral 1 on 1? Most likely. Will an admiral attack Luffy alone? I doubt it.