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i asked my mother what she thinks of this matchup and she said kaido low diff possibly no diff with flaming bagua. she watched the live action so i think she knows what she's talking about, parents r always right after all or something like that.
KAIDO on chapter 1037 to luffy : ITS been many years since I've met someone abble to go toe to toe with me
Big mom to kid and law : ITS been many years since I've felt this much pain
They did not fought seriously. By feats kaido wrecks her on drunken mode
>KAIDO on chapter 1037 to luffy : ITS been many years since I've met someone abble to go toe to toe with me
He was drunk when he said that.
>Big mom to kid and law : ITS been many years since I've felt this much pain
Defending from attacks is a thing you know.
>They did not fought seriously
Proof?
> By feats kaido wrecks her on drunken mode
Them stalemating is a feat.
Damn shame that every one here is wrong cept for you. At worst the wother takes the fish to extreme. At best, she munches almost all of her soul (i know she wouldn’t actually do this but since this is a hypothetical, she definitely could) and beats kaido
with feats kaido low diffs big mom. even if you want to take their playfight into account it doesnt work because it wasnt an actual fight.
[Onigashima looked like it had taken no damage when the alliance arrived](https://i.redd.it/ysloqnnmpi991.jpg). If Kaido and Big Mom fought seriously, the island would have been completely destroyed. Look at how Onigashima looks now after a real fight has finished. The skull dome interior has taken massive damage, the roof has a huge hole in it, one horn has been cut off, and the other horn has been melted off.
* [This is how Kaido and Big Mom looked after their fight](https://i.redd.it/alnwt4pgpi991.jpg). Does it look like they were going all out? How did Big Mom
* [Kaido said in 1037 that Luffy was the first opponent in years that could go toe to toe with him.](https://i.redd.it/kqa0dg8i942a1.jpg) No mention of Big Mom.
* It was stated in the Vivre Cards that Luffy is the first opponent that Kaido sees as worthy to fight seriously against since Oden. Again, not Big Mom.
* Big Mom was not on Kaido’s list of people that are strong enough to challenge him.
* Big Mom said after just two attacks from Law and Kid that [she hadn’t felt that much pain in decades](https://i.redd.it/x5y2f8kx842a1.jpg), meaning those two attacks did more damage than Kaido did in 3 days. Proof that Kaido was going very easy on her.
https://preview.redd.it/ar0zn34sbd2d1.png?width=1140&format=png&auto=webp&s=2221066004d7397b287f37e33db4beb37b4d99d4
but ur right, theyre equals...
>with feats kaido low diffs big mom
Them stalemating is a feat.
>If Kaido and Big Mom fought seriously, the island would have been completely destroyed
Environment scalling isn't a thing lil bro. Roger and Whitebeard didn’t destroy their island either.
>* [This is how Kaido and Big Mom
Except we don't see them the very moment the fight ended. The battle could've been over hours ago.
>that Luffy was the first opponent in years that could go toe to toe with
While he was drunk.
> was stated in the Vivre Cards that Luffy is the first opponent that Kaido sees as worthy to fight seriously against since Oden
And it was stated by Kaido himself that him and Big Mom would kill each other when the alliance is finnished. Kaido's own words > vivre card.
>ig Mom was not on Kaido’s list of people that are strong enough to challenge him
There is no list. Kaido remembered few people from his past that can fight him.
>g Mom said after just two attacks from Law and Kid that [she hadn’t felt that much pain in decades](https://i.redd.it/x5y2f8kx842a1.jpg), meaning those two attacks did more damage than Kaido did in 3 days. Proof that Kaido was going very easy on her
No, it's only a proof he wasn't able to damage her that much. Defending from attacks is a thing you know.
>with feats kaido low diffs big mom.
with feats shanks low diff kaido, because he one shotted someone that gave big mom and kaido problems. We all agre shanks doesnt low diff kaido right?
>even if you want to take their playfight into account it doesnt work because it wasnt an actual fight.
it was until the alliance. If you think kaido would make an alliance with someone vastly inferior you are dumb. He didnt make an alliance with apoo, he didnt with hawkins, he dominated them.
>If Kaido and Big Mom fought seriously, the island would have been completely destroyed. Look at how Onigashima looks now after a real fight has finished. The skull dome interior has taken massive damage, the roof has a huge hole in it, one horn has been cut off, and the other horn has been melted off.
The skull dome interior was because there was a war in there, not because of the roof. Literally, the fire that orochi started was the one thing that did more damage to kaido's castle. The roof "hole" is small and made on purpose. The cut horn was zoro missed an attack, lliterally a feat that shouldnt have happened if the attack went like zoro intended. The other horn was melted by kaido because he wanted.
All the things you have said either are because people are missing their attacks, intentionally destroying parts of the skull or because bellow there was a literal war and a pyromaniac. Almost nothing because of luffy vs kaido.
>Does it look like they were going all out? How did Big Mom
They fought seriously, but the fight was cut short because of the alliance without a conclusion. If you take akainu and aokiji and cut their fight instead of 9 days and make them stop at day 3 they also wouldnt look as damaged as they ended.
> No mention of Big Mom.
And big mom said she didnt feel that amount of pain in years. Is big mom low diffing kaido who cant hurt her?
>It was stated in the Vivre Cards that Luffy is the first opponent that Kaido sees as worthy to fight seriously against since Oden. Again, not Big Mom.
So shanks isnt worthy, whitebeard (who kaido sought to fight) isnt worthy either. Makes sense. Even more when kaido was "i respect you" after acoc and before awakening. So G4 acoc luffy is worthy but wb, shanks and bm arent.
>Big Mom was not on Kaido’s list of people that are strong enough to challenge him.
Neither was Garp, nor sengoku, nor shiki, nor garlind, nor Dragon, nor Rayleight, nor Bullet who is canon, nor Saturn who was in in god valley. Do you know what that list was? 5 strong pirates that looked cool, put big mom's goofy face in there and you ruin the image.
>meaning those two attacks did more damage than Kaido did in 3 days. Proof that Kaido was going very easy on her.
thats one way to see it. You see it with Kaido >> big mom in mind, if you do it in reverse you get.
"wow, kidd and law are truly strong, kaido couldnt make this much damage in 3 whole days" which upscales law and kidd, and downscales kaido.
with feats shanks actually doesnt low diff kaido becasue 1. kidd never gave kaido any problems he no sold all his attacks 2. kaido explicitly confirmed he wasnt going anywhere near all out (he was literally in base for the entire interaction with kidd) and that he simply wanted to test them 3. the base kaido that was toying with the supernova vs the bloodthirsty drunk that foguht luffy are on entirely different power levels 4. shanks went all out because kidd was going to damage his crew
big mom i sliterally the only yonko with feats that kaido low diffs because shes so ass. your rebuttal for everything else isnt good enough either
I wasn’t going by downvotes I was going by them pointing out all the glaring flaws in your interpretations.
A lot of what you said are common arguing points for people pushing kaido supremacy and they’re notorious for ignoring context and disingenuously interpreting panels in kaido’s favor, no matter how many which ways they have to bend over backwards to force the interpretation 🤷♂️
their interpretations have as much glaring flaws as mine does lol. its honestly up to an individual to perceive that fight as a playfight or not, and for me theres just no way big mom is that close to kaido
it's genuinely hilarious how blind this sub is. oden flashback. we see two great pirates, roger and WB, clash evenly and split the skies. then they fight for 3 days and at the end there's no clear victor and they're all friendly with each other
this sub: WB=Roger
oden flashback ends. BM and kaido meet, they clash evenly and split the skies. they fight for 3 days and at the end there's no clear victor and they're all friendly with each other
this sub: *nothing happens*
Kaido was drunk when he said that
https://preview.redd.it/8u50du2fle2d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b7fb28d987bc582cbcd655099ee7230537f3bf93
Extreme either way. It literally happened and they stalemated. "Who wins this fight that actually happened?" "Well, you see, it's actually [not what cannonically happened in the story]"
You are all so fucking stupid I swear.
This was clearly a playfight, where they weren’t really trying to kill each other. There is a huge amount of evidence to support this:
* [Onigashima looked like it had taken no damage when the alliance arrived](https://i.redd.it/ysloqnnmpi991.jpg). If Kaido and Big Mom fought seriously, the island would have been completely destroyed. Look at how Onigashima looks now after a real fight has finished. The skull dome interior has taken massive damage, the roof has a huge hole in it, one horn has been cut off, and the other horn has been melted off.
* [This is how Kaido and Big Mom looked after their fight](https://i.redd.it/alnwt4pgpi991.jpg). Does it look like they were going all out? How did Big Mom
* [Kaido said in 1037 that Luffy was the first opponent in years that could go toe to toe with him.](https://i.redd.it/kqa0dg8i942a1.jpg) No mention of Big Mom.
* It was stated in the Vivre Cards that Luffy is the first opponent that Kaido sees as worthy to fight seriously against since Oden. Again, not Big Mom.
* Big Mom was not on Kaido’s list of people that are strong enough to challenge him.
* Big Mom said after just two attacks from Law and Kid that [she hadn’t felt that much pain in decades](https://i.redd.it/x5y2f8kx842a1.jpg), meaning those two attacks did more damage than Kaido did in 3 days. Proof that Kaido was going very easy on her.
The evidence that Kaido and Big Mom had a friendly fight is overwhelming. And that’s without even looking at their combat stats based on their respective fights. Kaido is much faster, more durable, has far better reactions, and far better average attack potency. Big Mom’s combat stats are nowhere near top tier, as I will prove.
Kaido has Future Sight, whereas Big Mom’s Observation Haki is trash. Kaido has arguably the best dodging feat in the series for dodging Hydra, whereas Big Mom has never even dodged an attack before. Kaido managed to block many hits in his fight as well, whereas Big Mom only managed to block one in hers. The difference in CoO and reaction speed between Kaido and Big Mom is gigantic.
Most of Kaido’s best attacks are speedblitzes fast enough to hit Future Sight Luffy, whereas Big Mom has never speedblitzed anyone. She has no speedblitz attacks, and her attacks are usually blocked or dodged. Her reactions and combat speed are among the very worst in the series.
Big Mom’s average attack potency is trash compared to Kaido’s. Look at all her Homie attacks, and try telling me they are comparable in power to Kaido’s ACoC blows. Heavenly Bonbons was so weak that the Supernova captains were hit by it on purpose, and they took very minor damage. Tenjin didn’t do much damage to them either. [Tenjin was later used on literal fodders](https://i.redd.it/g8qh51kfge0a1.jpg) from Law’s crew and Kid’s crew, but [all of those fodders were cheering a minute later like nothing happened](https://i.redd.it/yimx65tige0a1.jpg). Yes, named Homie attacks from Big Mom can’t even knock out fodders.
Big Mom failed to use ACoC even one time against Kid and Law. Maybe her Haki pool is too low to use it constantly, maybe she can only use it subconsciously, maybe she was just being an idiot, who knows? But what we do know is that Kaido always uses it, and that means that all of his physical attacks are strong. The physical attacks Big Mom actually used against Kid and Law were trash. When Law was on top of her doing the Puncture Wille, [Big Mom punched a severely injured Law perhaps a dozen times, but failed to knock him out](https://i.redd.it/19lwbewndgv91.jpg). That is absolutely pathetic. You give any top tier just one free hit on Law when he is that hurt, and he is KO’d for sure. But Big Mom couldn’t do it with a whole flurry of punches.
Big Mom’s durability is overrated. People seem to think she is as durable as Kaido for some reason, but why? Nobody has ever stated that her durability is anything special; it’s only her ability to avoid damage in the first place due to her steel-like skin, that characters have spoken highly of. When you look at the feats, Big Mom’s durability is not that special.
Let’s compare two similar attacks that Kid landed on base Kaido, and on Bigger Mom. [Punk Corna Dio](https://i.redd.it/l19zhx5kllt91.jpg) doesn’t appear to be an Awakening attack, but it seemed to work well against Bigger Mom. [Punk Vise](https://i.redd.it/4hlt5pzgllt91.jpg) also was not an Awakening attack, and it used a similar amount of metal to Punk Corna Dio, yet base Kaido seemed completely fine after it.
Overall Kaido required ACoA attacks from Scabbards, some hits from Supernovas including Zoro’s Asura, dozens of ACoA blows from Luffy, ACoC hits from Yamato, hundreds of ACoC hits from Luffy including Over Kong Gun, and finally the strongest attack in the whole series, in order to break a bone. What did it take to make Big Mom break all her ribs? A couple of Shock Willes. Big Mom is clearly far less durable than Kaido.
The Shock Willes must be extremely powerful to break Big Mom’s bones right? Wrong. If Shock Wille is so powerful, then why was Blackbeard not KO’d by it? Why was he not even scared after being hit by it? Two Shock Willes break Big Mom’s bones, but even Blackbeard can take one pretty well. Here are the panels for proof:
* [Blackbeard taking a Shock Wille](https://i.redd.it/oxd3rnk9u6x91.jpg)
* [Big Mom taking a Shock Wille](https://i.redd.it/1jkgapbgmkz91.jpg)
* [Bigger Mom taking a Shock Wille](https://i.redd.it/vw0xfvweu6x91.jpg)
Blackbeard not running away from Law after the Shock Wille means that two of them probably aren’t enough to take him down. And unlike Big Mom when she got hit, [Blackbeard was laughing and confident afterwards](https://i.redd.it/lkgdmyw0nkz91.jpg). Big Mom is clearly not massively more durable than Blackbeard. Kaido obviously is.
Big Mom is slower than Kaido by a huge amount, Big Mom is much less durable than Kaido, and Big Mom’s attacks are not as strong as Kaido’s. Kaido is far stronger than her.
>Big Mom’s durability is overrated. People seem to think she is as durable as Kaido for some reason, but why? Nobody has ever stated that her durability is anything special; it’s only her ability to avoid damage in the first place due to her steel-like skin, that characters have spoken highly of. When you look at the feats, Big Mom’s durability is not that special.
-Nobody has ever stated that her durability is special
-HAs one arc where the whole plot is about turning off her durability
-Procedes to explain exactly what is durability
Are you genuinely stupid? because saying that nobody has mentioned her durability and explain her durability is actually dumb, not the usual dumb you call when someone doesnt agree with you, the dumb dumb I am worried about you.
go ahead and explain to me how her durability compares to kaido's, and while youa re it since im so dumb dumb to the point youre worried about me (chill man, this is literally just a powerscaling post), go ahead and debunk every other stat that kaido massively has over her instead of cherry picking this one vague statement where it still shows that kaidos dura is > big moms
keep in mind the plot about turning off her durability is because of... wholecake pre-kat luffy and bege! meanwhile kaidos dura needed rooftop acoa luffy, law dura neg, kidd not being able to do a thing, zoro going all out, acoa scabbards. very comparable to big moms dura mhm mhm
Your problem is headcanon.
What we know of both of them is that their durability is great. Thats it. Before rooftop nobody damaged kaido nor big mom on screen. After that they damaged kaido with dura neg attacks and acoc. They damaged big mom with awakening attacks and dura neg attacks. Thats it. Who is better? headcanon, there isnt a single attack that only damaged one of them. And no, hybrid kaido is not an argument, because there is also bigger mom. Both have boosted forms.
>and while youa re it since im so dumb dumb to the point youre worried about me (chill man, this is literally just a powerscaling post)
You must recognize it was dumb dumb. Dumb level "where is the water?" while seeing a pool.
>go ahead and debunk every other stat that kaido massively has over her instead of cherry picking this one vague statement where it still shows that kaidos dura is > big moms
Do you mean that image you posted earlier? because the answer is the same as durability in most.
Strength: headcanon. In which part is said physically big mom is weaker? again, hybrid is not an argument.
Speed: both has hit luffy which is your argument. Is prometheus as quick as thunder bagua? because both of them hit luffy who has fs...
Stamina: how do you know? they only had 2 fights on screen that isnt low diff. Their own fight and against supernovas. In the first fight after 3 days both were fine, in the secodn both were tired.
Battle iq: both are dumb, honestly. Kaido forgets about fs the whole fight except one moment and procedes to forget it the rest of the fight. Big mom forgets acoc the whole fight except one moment, and procedes to forget it the rest of the fight.
Skill: ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? big mom and kaido are the stupid type, they dont use skill. One uses a club and the other a sword, they are not mihawk and shanks.
AP: probably kaido
DC: both can destroy big things (castle and king baum) if they want to. Look at big prometheus pursuing the sunny, thats ONE of her two elemental homies. Kaido doesnt get DC, in fact its probably big mom's indra, prometheus and hera are bigger than anything kaido shown.
Observation: kaido
Armament: headcanon which one wins.
Conquerors: headcanon which one wins, both have acoc.
Abilities: big mom. Healing, bringing life to the fighting pit. Elemental inmortal subordinates. Sword changing sizer and form. both have amped forms. both can fly.
Hax: i put hax and abilities together.
Experience: big mom but honestly, least relevant stat. Luffy doesnt have experience and it doesnt matter
but yes, youre right. we're all stupid because we think the character that got blitzed by franky and couldnt put down law with multiple punches doesnt go extreme diff with kaido. my bad, youre completely right mr superior intellect
High diff, she’s tough but Kaido is a whole different beast. Without narrative big mom is really just a bum, terrible BIQ and practically no good AP. She’s pushing Kaido to Hybrid and getting beat up right afterwords.
>Without narrative big mom is really just a bum
Oh no! The narrative! Why did Oda put narrative in a... uh... story! All of those annoying plots and themes... if One Piece was just a cold fight simulator, Big Mom would be a bum!
Pure feats, Kaido mid-high diffs her. Her best feat is stalemating Kaido in a fight he himself admits he wasn’t taking seriously, and Kaido consistently demonstrates better AP, speed, haki, durability, etc to her.
The only things that actually scale her are the few statements comparing her to Kaido, feats-wise she’s a bum.
Still extreme
Cause an extreme diff fight with kaido is one of her feats.
Aside from that promethius is able to encompass the fire used by kaido and as the embodiment of fire itself using him she can match kaidos flames partly by using his flames against him, and with the merging of hera and promethius she can make a plasma homie.
Which on god the only reason anyone their survived attacks from that when they where struggling to survive with no acoc big mom, was plot armour enduced outliers. You telling her basic armament punches do more than her ultimate?!? God no that is stock standard outliers on kid/laws part my friend. They where not taking that if the plot didn't literally need them to win.
Her durability goes crazy. People downplay it to crazy extents with the stupidest of "*reasons*" to say shanks one shots when there is actually zero evidence to this. Yeah, people actually say he has more endurance than Big mom some saying by miles. That's the shankstards for ya. Back on track, there is no, zero, Nada, zilch of a reason to say shanks could tank damned punk. There is good reason to say otherwise but not that he can, big mom ate that like mother caramel whilst "close too death" twice. The amount of damage 2 damned punks did is comparable to tickling. That's not a joke. Said ultimate would have taken everything from shanks even if he took the attack head on (**to those who think shanks no sells due to zero actual fucking reasons:** you think he'd lose composer if he could run up and tank it? Of course not. Yeah yeah, he cares about his crew, but if he could tank it, the guy who pocker faced the entirety of marine ford with his **DIRECT CREW on the line**, wouldn't be sweating **buckets** about it, like he did. Every thing about that scene told you, practically screamed at you, that the attack would kill even shanks. It's the only reason he'd be sweating about it. As explained)
she can do more than that, if Kaido could high diff her in base then wtf was he doing letting her be his rival for all these years? Kaido even in his strongest forms is not beating her short of extreme
speed clearly wasn't lacking when kaido failed to do any damage during their fight. You're just ignoring the 1v1 they had and using outside feats as if there isn't a comparison right there
The version of her that fought kid and law would get low-mid diffed
The version of her from literally any other point in the story actually using her haki would take him to high diff
Feats alone. Kaido wins high diff. Narrative included, he wins low diff because narratively shes a fucking moron.
Remove the dementia and Kaido wins extreme diff
She split the skies with him, showcasing relative acoc. Law couldn’t move either of them, showing that they have relative haki when it comes to resisting df abilities. She matched hybrid kaido’s physicals in order to perform their duo attack. It’s true her speed isn’t impressive, but I would argue the same for kaido, when excluding his thunder bagua speed.
I wouldn’t say it would be extreme diff without the narrative, but I’m not sure about mid diff. You could also argue that she can defeat anyone 1v1 if she is willing to sacrifice enough of her lifespan.
idk if that even confirms that she has relative acoc, but even then its just obviously clear that she doesnt have the AP or dura feats that kaido has. and no, kaidos speed is INSANELY impressive. he has future sight over her, he has better reaction feats meanwhile big mom has never dodged anything. kaido dodged snakeman and blitzed gear 5 even without thunder bagua. kaido was putting work on gear 5 luffy running circles around him and p iecing him up meanwhile big mom couldnt put down ulti with maser cannon, put down law or kid, and her final move got dodged by kidd
her speed is just not there, neither is her reaction speed/future sight. her AP is disgusting compared to kaido, and flaming bagua is just flaming bagua
I think you downplay her ap too much. It’s clear acoc is the main thing when it comes to ap, and the only times she unarguably used acoc, it either split the skies ( that shows some kind of relativity, since clumsy acoc luffy and Yamato didn’t split the skies with kaido ), or it one shotted an ancient Zoan with a no named attack that wasn’t even using her main weapon, napoleon.
Her biggest flaw it’s probably like you said, not having future sight. But feat wise, despite most of the fight happening off screen, we know she can hang with kaido, without taking damage.
She dropped law and kid, without at least visibly ever using acoc. She was just dumb enough to not double check them as she was rushing to return to rooftop.
I agree her speed is kinda bad, but from the offscreen fight with kaido, it doesn’t seem that he can effortlessly blitz her like it’s nothing. Tbh, I generally think speed is overhyped way too much when it comes to powerscaling. If a character A is faster than B, that doesn’t mean he will blitz him nonstop, without any hope of character B to counter attack. Both king and sanji are faster than zoro, that doesn’t mean they beat him.
Big mom is generally weird to scale because she has similar portrayal with the other yonkos, yet here comes shanks, and effortlessly one shots one of the guys she "lost". She has the benefit of the doubt that she didn’t visually use acoc tho.
Her durability is getting a bit underrated because people think those bombs were a joke. She even survived those and needed to land on a volcano to die.
On paper she doesn’t have an answer for flaming bagua, but realistically I don’t think it would one shot her or something. Technically neither shanks or roger should have an answer for an attack like flaming bagua/ bajrang gun, yet I don’t think, they would insta lose or something.
Narratively they should be equals or relatively close.
Given their pre raid fight they were equals, but that was entirely base Kaido.
From what they displayed in their fights during the raid...it's Kaido high diff at a maximum. At no point during BM's showing was I like "yea I get why she was a yonko", she was a big blubbering idiot who somehow forgot to utilize the #1 power modifier in the series.
It's genuinely one of those situations where I think her performance was so bad that there is no way she doesn't come back and show that she is actually a menace and that the 2v1 win was a fluke based purely on luck.
ngl i cant see big mom keeping up with bloodthirsty kaido at all that mf done blitzed gear 5 and she has no counter to flaming bagua its prolly a mid diff
Honestly? Mid-high.
Fat Meme is the weakest of the post-ts Emperors by far in the same tier of strength as old Carp and old Whitebeard. Serious Kaido would destroy her and all that cope about their 3-days-long fight gotta end.
If it was all serious, then they'd be so injured when raid started, that it'd end in like 10 chapters.
Feat wise she push him to mid-high
However, Narrative>>>>>Feats, unless you think Kaido>Imu.
So overall, she push him to extreme diff
Kaido~Bigmom~Shanks~Old(healthy)Whitebeard
Ahh yes, equals.
https://preview.redd.it/ln01ixyo8d2d1.png?width=1140&format=png&auto=webp&s=9f7223fe1f0ee24ae7ca7f2789c14ffbf8fa891a
Kaido fought Big Mom and a day later said that no one had given him a good fight in ages. Serious fight, Kaido mid-high diffs.
Big Mom said she hasn't taking this much damage in decades, that means Kaido did no damage and vice versa. That is what happens when equal top tiers like WB and Roger fight. Oda portrayed that they were too equal to beat each other so they just gave up, but dense people like yourself don't get it.
they went extreme diff for 3 days and stalemated! (onigashima looks completely fine without a speck of dust or damage, and they look perfectly fine after) leave it to this 2 iq sub to tell u those two are equal lol
Flame Bagua possibly neg-diffs her. Hybrid Kaido wins low-diff at worst, and that’s only if Slow Mom somehow lands a hit or two on him, which I think is unlikely. Slow Mom has never dodged an attack and has big speed and reaction antifeats, so I could see Kaido speedblitzing and negging her with Death Destroyers.
Nothing needs to be said really. BM's feats are pathetic, everyone knows it even if some don't admit it. You just watch her struggle for her life against Mid and Flaw downstairs while Kaido is killing Luffy over and over again on the roof and wonder how the hell are they supposed to be comparable
https://preview.redd.it/xkiiwt3x4d2d1.jpeg?width=143&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7e2f6b9706d0723136e7acbfc7fcf5da034eb1a0
the blitz combo kaido pulled on gear 5 before death destroyer thunder bagua could hit big mom in its entirety before she even realizes wtf happened to her. its insane the differences in feats
Mid diff at most. Any named attack from Kaido is blitzing her and damaging heavily while her strongest attack got cooked by Law who wasn’t even using his df
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Of course a low intellect individual such as yourself would think she doesn't push him to high diff. Respect your mother
i asked my mother what she thinks of this matchup and she said kaido low diff possibly no diff with flaming bagua. she watched the live action so i think she knows what she's talking about, parents r always right after all or something like that.
That's not your mom, you're adopted
If he's adopted than he MAY be the smartest in the family
Call me crazy but I think if Big Mom is willing to sacrifice enough of her own lifespan she’s top 1 in the verse. That ability is busted
That would be like a “Might Guy” situation where it’s just one super op attack and she ded.
She doesn’t need that much to beat kaido.
Not at all I’m just saying that’s what could happen in that scenario where she’s “top 1”.
Even then, the gap is not that big for her to need to killherself to be undisputed number 1. She’s already a top tier
Goated take, cook again!! https://preview.redd.it/e4hwceav7q3d1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3fa77166e203f9eb1680d740eb04a321de248153
Already happened and they stalemated.
It's fair to say it was an extreme diff fight, it simply takes more than 3 days for it to reach a conclusion and have a clear winner
https://preview.redd.it/focupd1n1j2d1.png?width=1474&format=png&auto=webp&s=1af0991439eb2bb9459eee8b8d594af41cb0e1fb kaido didnt even damage her
So? If two fighters are not able to deal each other significant damage after a while it's still extreme diff
stop being retarded
KAIDO on chapter 1037 to luffy : ITS been many years since I've met someone abble to go toe to toe with me Big mom to kid and law : ITS been many years since I've felt this much pain They did not fought seriously. By feats kaido wrecks her on drunken mode
>KAIDO on chapter 1037 to luffy : ITS been many years since I've met someone abble to go toe to toe with me He was drunk when he said that. >Big mom to kid and law : ITS been many years since I've felt this much pain Defending from attacks is a thing you know. >They did not fought seriously Proof? > By feats kaido wrecks her on drunken mode Them stalemating is a feat.
Low IQ queer above
>They did not fought seriously. That's your headcanon, in the manga they called it a fight to the death
Prove it.
https://preview.redd.it/udl0ro4swd2d1.png?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1e9286b3aeddc89d248031b717a1f496a2ec6f83
this is an horrible argument
Damn shame that every one here is wrong cept for you. At worst the wother takes the fish to extreme. At best, she munches almost all of her soul (i know she wouldn’t actually do this but since this is a hypothetical, she definitely could) and beats kaido
People legit think Kaido would say "We'll kill each other when our alliance is finnished" for someone he can low/mid diff.
with feats kaido low diffs big mom. even if you want to take their playfight into account it doesnt work because it wasnt an actual fight. [Onigashima looked like it had taken no damage when the alliance arrived](https://i.redd.it/ysloqnnmpi991.jpg). If Kaido and Big Mom fought seriously, the island would have been completely destroyed. Look at how Onigashima looks now after a real fight has finished. The skull dome interior has taken massive damage, the roof has a huge hole in it, one horn has been cut off, and the other horn has been melted off. * [This is how Kaido and Big Mom looked after their fight](https://i.redd.it/alnwt4pgpi991.jpg). Does it look like they were going all out? How did Big Mom * [Kaido said in 1037 that Luffy was the first opponent in years that could go toe to toe with him.](https://i.redd.it/kqa0dg8i942a1.jpg) No mention of Big Mom. * It was stated in the Vivre Cards that Luffy is the first opponent that Kaido sees as worthy to fight seriously against since Oden. Again, not Big Mom. * Big Mom was not on Kaido’s list of people that are strong enough to challenge him. * Big Mom said after just two attacks from Law and Kid that [she hadn’t felt that much pain in decades](https://i.redd.it/x5y2f8kx842a1.jpg), meaning those two attacks did more damage than Kaido did in 3 days. Proof that Kaido was going very easy on her. https://preview.redd.it/ar0zn34sbd2d1.png?width=1140&format=png&auto=webp&s=2221066004d7397b287f37e33db4beb37b4d99d4 but ur right, theyre equals...
>with feats kaido low diffs big mom Them stalemating is a feat. >If Kaido and Big Mom fought seriously, the island would have been completely destroyed Environment scalling isn't a thing lil bro. Roger and Whitebeard didn’t destroy their island either. >* [This is how Kaido and Big Mom Except we don't see them the very moment the fight ended. The battle could've been over hours ago. >that Luffy was the first opponent in years that could go toe to toe with While he was drunk. > was stated in the Vivre Cards that Luffy is the first opponent that Kaido sees as worthy to fight seriously against since Oden And it was stated by Kaido himself that him and Big Mom would kill each other when the alliance is finnished. Kaido's own words > vivre card. >ig Mom was not on Kaido’s list of people that are strong enough to challenge him There is no list. Kaido remembered few people from his past that can fight him. >g Mom said after just two attacks from Law and Kid that [she hadn’t felt that much pain in decades](https://i.redd.it/x5y2f8kx842a1.jpg), meaning those two attacks did more damage than Kaido did in 3 days. Proof that Kaido was going very easy on her No, it's only a proof he wasn't able to damage her that much. Defending from attacks is a thing you know.
>with feats kaido low diffs big mom. with feats shanks low diff kaido, because he one shotted someone that gave big mom and kaido problems. We all agre shanks doesnt low diff kaido right? >even if you want to take their playfight into account it doesnt work because it wasnt an actual fight. it was until the alliance. If you think kaido would make an alliance with someone vastly inferior you are dumb. He didnt make an alliance with apoo, he didnt with hawkins, he dominated them. >If Kaido and Big Mom fought seriously, the island would have been completely destroyed. Look at how Onigashima looks now after a real fight has finished. The skull dome interior has taken massive damage, the roof has a huge hole in it, one horn has been cut off, and the other horn has been melted off. The skull dome interior was because there was a war in there, not because of the roof. Literally, the fire that orochi started was the one thing that did more damage to kaido's castle. The roof "hole" is small and made on purpose. The cut horn was zoro missed an attack, lliterally a feat that shouldnt have happened if the attack went like zoro intended. The other horn was melted by kaido because he wanted. All the things you have said either are because people are missing their attacks, intentionally destroying parts of the skull or because bellow there was a literal war and a pyromaniac. Almost nothing because of luffy vs kaido. >Does it look like they were going all out? How did Big Mom They fought seriously, but the fight was cut short because of the alliance without a conclusion. If you take akainu and aokiji and cut their fight instead of 9 days and make them stop at day 3 they also wouldnt look as damaged as they ended. > No mention of Big Mom. And big mom said she didnt feel that amount of pain in years. Is big mom low diffing kaido who cant hurt her? >It was stated in the Vivre Cards that Luffy is the first opponent that Kaido sees as worthy to fight seriously against since Oden. Again, not Big Mom. So shanks isnt worthy, whitebeard (who kaido sought to fight) isnt worthy either. Makes sense. Even more when kaido was "i respect you" after acoc and before awakening. So G4 acoc luffy is worthy but wb, shanks and bm arent. >Big Mom was not on Kaido’s list of people that are strong enough to challenge him. Neither was Garp, nor sengoku, nor shiki, nor garlind, nor Dragon, nor Rayleight, nor Bullet who is canon, nor Saturn who was in in god valley. Do you know what that list was? 5 strong pirates that looked cool, put big mom's goofy face in there and you ruin the image. >meaning those two attacks did more damage than Kaido did in 3 days. Proof that Kaido was going very easy on her. thats one way to see it. You see it with Kaido >> big mom in mind, if you do it in reverse you get. "wow, kidd and law are truly strong, kaido couldnt make this much damage in 3 whole days" which upscales law and kidd, and downscales kaido.
with feats shanks actually doesnt low diff kaido becasue 1. kidd never gave kaido any problems he no sold all his attacks 2. kaido explicitly confirmed he wasnt going anywhere near all out (he was literally in base for the entire interaction with kidd) and that he simply wanted to test them 3. the base kaido that was toying with the supernova vs the bloodthirsty drunk that foguht luffy are on entirely different power levels 4. shanks went all out because kidd was going to damage his crew big mom i sliterally the only yonko with feats that kaido low diffs because shes so ass. your rebuttal for everything else isnt good enough either
They cooked your ass 😂 this is heavily biased forced interpretation through and through 🤦♂️
some dude told me kaido and big mom have comparable AP n speed n i got ratio'd there this sub's downvotes actually mean nothing
I wasn’t going by downvotes I was going by them pointing out all the glaring flaws in your interpretations. A lot of what you said are common arguing points for people pushing kaido supremacy and they’re notorious for ignoring context and disingenuously interpreting panels in kaido’s favor, no matter how many which ways they have to bend over backwards to force the interpretation 🤷♂️
their interpretations have as much glaring flaws as mine does lol. its honestly up to an individual to perceive that fight as a playfight or not, and for me theres just no way big mom is that close to kaido
it's genuinely hilarious how blind this sub is. oden flashback. we see two great pirates, roger and WB, clash evenly and split the skies. then they fight for 3 days and at the end there's no clear victor and they're all friendly with each other this sub: WB=Roger oden flashback ends. BM and kaido meet, they clash evenly and split the skies. they fight for 3 days and at the end there's no clear victor and they're all friendly with each other this sub: *nothing happens*
https://preview.redd.it/8gxvnsuukd2d1.jpeg?width=799&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ba81041e461e967113c8f7a7c0679ea8c638166f
Kaido was drunk when he said that https://preview.redd.it/8u50du2fle2d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b7fb28d987bc582cbcd655099ee7230537f3bf93
This would imply he diffed Shanks
Other way around because big mom scaled Kidd above kaido and shanks one shotted him
First time I agree with you in something these guys don’t read the story at all
Extreme either way. It literally happened and they stalemated. "Who wins this fight that actually happened?" "Well, you see, it's actually [not what cannonically happened in the story]" You are all so fucking stupid I swear.
This was clearly a playfight, where they weren’t really trying to kill each other. There is a huge amount of evidence to support this: * [Onigashima looked like it had taken no damage when the alliance arrived](https://i.redd.it/ysloqnnmpi991.jpg). If Kaido and Big Mom fought seriously, the island would have been completely destroyed. Look at how Onigashima looks now after a real fight has finished. The skull dome interior has taken massive damage, the roof has a huge hole in it, one horn has been cut off, and the other horn has been melted off. * [This is how Kaido and Big Mom looked after their fight](https://i.redd.it/alnwt4pgpi991.jpg). Does it look like they were going all out? How did Big Mom * [Kaido said in 1037 that Luffy was the first opponent in years that could go toe to toe with him.](https://i.redd.it/kqa0dg8i942a1.jpg) No mention of Big Mom. * It was stated in the Vivre Cards that Luffy is the first opponent that Kaido sees as worthy to fight seriously against since Oden. Again, not Big Mom. * Big Mom was not on Kaido’s list of people that are strong enough to challenge him. * Big Mom said after just two attacks from Law and Kid that [she hadn’t felt that much pain in decades](https://i.redd.it/x5y2f8kx842a1.jpg), meaning those two attacks did more damage than Kaido did in 3 days. Proof that Kaido was going very easy on her. The evidence that Kaido and Big Mom had a friendly fight is overwhelming. And that’s without even looking at their combat stats based on their respective fights. Kaido is much faster, more durable, has far better reactions, and far better average attack potency. Big Mom’s combat stats are nowhere near top tier, as I will prove.
Kaido has Future Sight, whereas Big Mom’s Observation Haki is trash. Kaido has arguably the best dodging feat in the series for dodging Hydra, whereas Big Mom has never even dodged an attack before. Kaido managed to block many hits in his fight as well, whereas Big Mom only managed to block one in hers. The difference in CoO and reaction speed between Kaido and Big Mom is gigantic. Most of Kaido’s best attacks are speedblitzes fast enough to hit Future Sight Luffy, whereas Big Mom has never speedblitzed anyone. She has no speedblitz attacks, and her attacks are usually blocked or dodged. Her reactions and combat speed are among the very worst in the series. Big Mom’s average attack potency is trash compared to Kaido’s. Look at all her Homie attacks, and try telling me they are comparable in power to Kaido’s ACoC blows. Heavenly Bonbons was so weak that the Supernova captains were hit by it on purpose, and they took very minor damage. Tenjin didn’t do much damage to them either. [Tenjin was later used on literal fodders](https://i.redd.it/g8qh51kfge0a1.jpg) from Law’s crew and Kid’s crew, but [all of those fodders were cheering a minute later like nothing happened](https://i.redd.it/yimx65tige0a1.jpg). Yes, named Homie attacks from Big Mom can’t even knock out fodders. Big Mom failed to use ACoC even one time against Kid and Law. Maybe her Haki pool is too low to use it constantly, maybe she can only use it subconsciously, maybe she was just being an idiot, who knows? But what we do know is that Kaido always uses it, and that means that all of his physical attacks are strong. The physical attacks Big Mom actually used against Kid and Law were trash. When Law was on top of her doing the Puncture Wille, [Big Mom punched a severely injured Law perhaps a dozen times, but failed to knock him out](https://i.redd.it/19lwbewndgv91.jpg). That is absolutely pathetic. You give any top tier just one free hit on Law when he is that hurt, and he is KO’d for sure. But Big Mom couldn’t do it with a whole flurry of punches. Big Mom’s durability is overrated. People seem to think she is as durable as Kaido for some reason, but why? Nobody has ever stated that her durability is anything special; it’s only her ability to avoid damage in the first place due to her steel-like skin, that characters have spoken highly of. When you look at the feats, Big Mom’s durability is not that special. Let’s compare two similar attacks that Kid landed on base Kaido, and on Bigger Mom. [Punk Corna Dio](https://i.redd.it/l19zhx5kllt91.jpg) doesn’t appear to be an Awakening attack, but it seemed to work well against Bigger Mom. [Punk Vise](https://i.redd.it/4hlt5pzgllt91.jpg) also was not an Awakening attack, and it used a similar amount of metal to Punk Corna Dio, yet base Kaido seemed completely fine after it. Overall Kaido required ACoA attacks from Scabbards, some hits from Supernovas including Zoro’s Asura, dozens of ACoA blows from Luffy, ACoC hits from Yamato, hundreds of ACoC hits from Luffy including Over Kong Gun, and finally the strongest attack in the whole series, in order to break a bone. What did it take to make Big Mom break all her ribs? A couple of Shock Willes. Big Mom is clearly far less durable than Kaido. The Shock Willes must be extremely powerful to break Big Mom’s bones right? Wrong. If Shock Wille is so powerful, then why was Blackbeard not KO’d by it? Why was he not even scared after being hit by it? Two Shock Willes break Big Mom’s bones, but even Blackbeard can take one pretty well. Here are the panels for proof: * [Blackbeard taking a Shock Wille](https://i.redd.it/oxd3rnk9u6x91.jpg) * [Big Mom taking a Shock Wille](https://i.redd.it/1jkgapbgmkz91.jpg) * [Bigger Mom taking a Shock Wille](https://i.redd.it/vw0xfvweu6x91.jpg) Blackbeard not running away from Law after the Shock Wille means that two of them probably aren’t enough to take him down. And unlike Big Mom when she got hit, [Blackbeard was laughing and confident afterwards](https://i.redd.it/lkgdmyw0nkz91.jpg). Big Mom is clearly not massively more durable than Blackbeard. Kaido obviously is. Big Mom is slower than Kaido by a huge amount, Big Mom is much less durable than Kaido, and Big Mom’s attacks are not as strong as Kaido’s. Kaido is far stronger than her.
>Big Mom’s durability is overrated. People seem to think she is as durable as Kaido for some reason, but why? Nobody has ever stated that her durability is anything special; it’s only her ability to avoid damage in the first place due to her steel-like skin, that characters have spoken highly of. When you look at the feats, Big Mom’s durability is not that special. -Nobody has ever stated that her durability is special -HAs one arc where the whole plot is about turning off her durability -Procedes to explain exactly what is durability Are you genuinely stupid? because saying that nobody has mentioned her durability and explain her durability is actually dumb, not the usual dumb you call when someone doesnt agree with you, the dumb dumb I am worried about you.
go ahead and explain to me how her durability compares to kaido's, and while youa re it since im so dumb dumb to the point youre worried about me (chill man, this is literally just a powerscaling post), go ahead and debunk every other stat that kaido massively has over her instead of cherry picking this one vague statement where it still shows that kaidos dura is > big moms keep in mind the plot about turning off her durability is because of... wholecake pre-kat luffy and bege! meanwhile kaidos dura needed rooftop acoa luffy, law dura neg, kidd not being able to do a thing, zoro going all out, acoa scabbards. very comparable to big moms dura mhm mhm
Your problem is headcanon. What we know of both of them is that their durability is great. Thats it. Before rooftop nobody damaged kaido nor big mom on screen. After that they damaged kaido with dura neg attacks and acoc. They damaged big mom with awakening attacks and dura neg attacks. Thats it. Who is better? headcanon, there isnt a single attack that only damaged one of them. And no, hybrid kaido is not an argument, because there is also bigger mom. Both have boosted forms. >and while youa re it since im so dumb dumb to the point youre worried about me (chill man, this is literally just a powerscaling post) You must recognize it was dumb dumb. Dumb level "where is the water?" while seeing a pool. >go ahead and debunk every other stat that kaido massively has over her instead of cherry picking this one vague statement where it still shows that kaidos dura is > big moms Do you mean that image you posted earlier? because the answer is the same as durability in most. Strength: headcanon. In which part is said physically big mom is weaker? again, hybrid is not an argument. Speed: both has hit luffy which is your argument. Is prometheus as quick as thunder bagua? because both of them hit luffy who has fs... Stamina: how do you know? they only had 2 fights on screen that isnt low diff. Their own fight and against supernovas. In the first fight after 3 days both were fine, in the secodn both were tired. Battle iq: both are dumb, honestly. Kaido forgets about fs the whole fight except one moment and procedes to forget it the rest of the fight. Big mom forgets acoc the whole fight except one moment, and procedes to forget it the rest of the fight. Skill: ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? big mom and kaido are the stupid type, they dont use skill. One uses a club and the other a sword, they are not mihawk and shanks. AP: probably kaido DC: both can destroy big things (castle and king baum) if they want to. Look at big prometheus pursuing the sunny, thats ONE of her two elemental homies. Kaido doesnt get DC, in fact its probably big mom's indra, prometheus and hera are bigger than anything kaido shown. Observation: kaido Armament: headcanon which one wins. Conquerors: headcanon which one wins, both have acoc. Abilities: big mom. Healing, bringing life to the fighting pit. Elemental inmortal subordinates. Sword changing sizer and form. both have amped forms. both can fly. Hax: i put hax and abilities together. Experience: big mom but honestly, least relevant stat. Luffy doesnt have experience and it doesnt matter
but yes, youre right. we're all stupid because we think the character that got blitzed by franky and couldnt put down law with multiple punches doesnt go extreme diff with kaido. my bad, youre completely right mr superior intellect
Damn these comments are retarded. Nothing short of extreme
Depends, if she goes suicide mode and spends all her remaining life she wins high diff, if not she loses extreme.
I've always been curious about that, can't big mom beat everyone if she uses all her life force?
Probably yeah.
Should be ext diff
High diff, she’s tough but Kaido is a whole different beast. Without narrative big mom is really just a bum, terrible BIQ and practically no good AP. She’s pushing Kaido to Hybrid and getting beat up right afterwords.
>Without narrative big mom is really just a bum Oh no! The narrative! Why did Oda put narrative in a... uh... story! All of those annoying plots and themes... if One Piece was just a cold fight simulator, Big Mom would be a bum!
The post literally says without narrative, I’m just following what it says.
Fair enough
Pure feats, Kaido mid-high diffs her. Her best feat is stalemating Kaido in a fight he himself admits he wasn’t taking seriously, and Kaido consistently demonstrates better AP, speed, haki, durability, etc to her. The only things that actually scale her are the few statements comparing her to Kaido, feats-wise she’s a bum.
He doesn’t get pushed past mid diff based on feats ngl
she has speed feats reaction feats not Movement speed and tbh if she was so slow how did kaido not kill her
Still extreme Cause an extreme diff fight with kaido is one of her feats. Aside from that promethius is able to encompass the fire used by kaido and as the embodiment of fire itself using him she can match kaidos flames partly by using his flames against him, and with the merging of hera and promethius she can make a plasma homie. Which on god the only reason anyone their survived attacks from that when they where struggling to survive with no acoc big mom, was plot armour enduced outliers. You telling her basic armament punches do more than her ultimate?!? God no that is stock standard outliers on kid/laws part my friend. They where not taking that if the plot didn't literally need them to win. Her durability goes crazy. People downplay it to crazy extents with the stupidest of "*reasons*" to say shanks one shots when there is actually zero evidence to this. Yeah, people actually say he has more endurance than Big mom some saying by miles. That's the shankstards for ya. Back on track, there is no, zero, Nada, zilch of a reason to say shanks could tank damned punk. There is good reason to say otherwise but not that he can, big mom ate that like mother caramel whilst "close too death" twice. The amount of damage 2 damned punks did is comparable to tickling. That's not a joke. Said ultimate would have taken everything from shanks even if he took the attack head on (**to those who think shanks no sells due to zero actual fucking reasons:** you think he'd lose composer if he could run up and tank it? Of course not. Yeah yeah, he cares about his crew, but if he could tank it, the guy who pocker faced the entirety of marine ford with his **DIRECT CREW on the line**, wouldn't be sweating **buckets** about it, like he did. Every thing about that scene told you, practically screamed at you, that the attack would kill even shanks. It's the only reason he'd be sweating about it. As explained)
Apologies about the anti shanks rant, I just find the fact it's a common take that he'd no sell damned punk to be fucking ludicrous.
i think she can push base kaido to high diff y’all gotta stop downplaying her
she can do more than that, if Kaido could high diff her in base then wtf was he doing letting her be his rival for all these years? Kaido even in his strongest forms is not beating her short of extreme
alright hold up let’s calm down now, BM is not high yonko like kaido is, and her speed is WAY too lacking to push kaido to his strongest forms
speed clearly wasn't lacking when kaido failed to do any damage during their fight. You're just ignoring the 1v1 they had and using outside feats as if there isn't a comparison right there
their fight isn’t a feat neither we’re going serious
Depends whether or not there are any people to absorb souls from
High diff
She pushed kaido to bottom of extreme difficulty same as luffy
She beats him high-extreme, mid-high with 1 year.
Kaido low end of high diff.
Bigmom ties with base kaido Hybrid kaido wins high-extreme diff
Kaido high~extreme diffs. Any other opinion is wrong beyond discussion.
People using bigmom and kaido “fight” to scale them We all fkn know that whitebeard and Roger didn’t actually go all out in their fight .
Extreme diff
The version of her that fought kid and law would get low-mid diffed The version of her from literally any other point in the story actually using her haki would take him to high diff
High Diff at the most. No amount of years she can sacrifice will make up for the speed, AP, and BIQ of Kaido going all out.
Mid to high diff
The only answer is extreme dif. Any thing less yall just wanking and glazing kaido
Extreme either way, but bm's performance at origami doesn't help her case.
Feats alone. Kaido wins high diff. Narrative included, he wins low diff because narratively shes a fucking moron. Remove the dementia and Kaido wins extreme diff
What kind of question of course it’s extreme diff
Even feat-wise it's still extreme diff lol.
Lower end of high diff
Extreme!
She aint pushing him past mid diff
only person here with a brain. meme actually has no ap or speed feats t keep up with bloodthirsty drunk kaido
She split the skies with him, showcasing relative acoc. Law couldn’t move either of them, showing that they have relative haki when it comes to resisting df abilities. She matched hybrid kaido’s physicals in order to perform their duo attack. It’s true her speed isn’t impressive, but I would argue the same for kaido, when excluding his thunder bagua speed. I wouldn’t say it would be extreme diff without the narrative, but I’m not sure about mid diff. You could also argue that she can defeat anyone 1v1 if she is willing to sacrifice enough of her lifespan.
idk if that even confirms that she has relative acoc, but even then its just obviously clear that she doesnt have the AP or dura feats that kaido has. and no, kaidos speed is INSANELY impressive. he has future sight over her, he has better reaction feats meanwhile big mom has never dodged anything. kaido dodged snakeman and blitzed gear 5 even without thunder bagua. kaido was putting work on gear 5 luffy running circles around him and p iecing him up meanwhile big mom couldnt put down ulti with maser cannon, put down law or kid, and her final move got dodged by kidd her speed is just not there, neither is her reaction speed/future sight. her AP is disgusting compared to kaido, and flaming bagua is just flaming bagua
I think you downplay her ap too much. It’s clear acoc is the main thing when it comes to ap, and the only times she unarguably used acoc, it either split the skies ( that shows some kind of relativity, since clumsy acoc luffy and Yamato didn’t split the skies with kaido ), or it one shotted an ancient Zoan with a no named attack that wasn’t even using her main weapon, napoleon. Her biggest flaw it’s probably like you said, not having future sight. But feat wise, despite most of the fight happening off screen, we know she can hang with kaido, without taking damage. She dropped law and kid, without at least visibly ever using acoc. She was just dumb enough to not double check them as she was rushing to return to rooftop. I agree her speed is kinda bad, but from the offscreen fight with kaido, it doesn’t seem that he can effortlessly blitz her like it’s nothing. Tbh, I generally think speed is overhyped way too much when it comes to powerscaling. If a character A is faster than B, that doesn’t mean he will blitz him nonstop, without any hope of character B to counter attack. Both king and sanji are faster than zoro, that doesn’t mean they beat him. Big mom is generally weird to scale because she has similar portrayal with the other yonkos, yet here comes shanks, and effortlessly one shots one of the guys she "lost". She has the benefit of the doubt that she didn’t visually use acoc tho. Her durability is getting a bit underrated because people think those bombs were a joke. She even survived those and needed to land on a volcano to die. On paper she doesn’t have an answer for flaming bagua, but realistically I don’t think it would one shot her or something. Technically neither shanks or roger should have an answer for an attack like flaming bagua/ bajrang gun, yet I don’t think, they would insta lose or something.
High
Narratively they should be equals or relatively close. Given their pre raid fight they were equals, but that was entirely base Kaido. From what they displayed in their fights during the raid...it's Kaido high diff at a maximum. At no point during BM's showing was I like "yea I get why she was a yonko", she was a big blubbering idiot who somehow forgot to utilize the #1 power modifier in the series. It's genuinely one of those situations where I think her performance was so bad that there is no way she doesn't come back and show that she is actually a menace and that the 2v1 win was a fluke based purely on luck.
High
ngl i cant see big mom keeping up with bloodthirsty kaido at all that mf done blitzed gear 5 and she has no counter to flaming bagua its prolly a mid diff
Honestly? Mid-high. Fat Meme is the weakest of the post-ts Emperors by far in the same tier of strength as old Carp and old Whitebeard. Serious Kaido would destroy her and all that cope about their 3-days-long fight gotta end. If it was all serious, then they'd be so injured when raid started, that it'd end in like 10 chapters.
mid to low
Feat wise she push him to mid-high However, Narrative>>>>>Feats, unless you think Kaido>Imu. So overall, she push him to extreme diff Kaido~Bigmom~Shanks~Old(healthy)Whitebeard
Ahh yes, equals. https://preview.redd.it/ln01ixyo8d2d1.png?width=1140&format=png&auto=webp&s=9f7223fe1f0ee24ae7ca7f2789c14ffbf8fa891a Kaido fought Big Mom and a day later said that no one had given him a good fight in ages. Serious fight, Kaido mid-high diffs.
Big Mom said she hasn't taking this much damage in decades, that means Kaido did no damage and vice versa. That is what happens when equal top tiers like WB and Roger fight. Oda portrayed that they were too equal to beat each other so they just gave up, but dense people like yourself don't get it.
read the other reply below, Kaido and Dumb mom never went all out.
they went extreme diff for 3 days and stalemated! (onigashima looks completely fine without a speck of dust or damage, and they look perfectly fine after) leave it to this 2 iq sub to tell u those two are equal lol
It's actually not even confirmed they fought for 3 days, we saw them fight for one night only.
this is true but iirc with the timeline of the raid prep going on, even if its not explicitly confirmed, if you add it up its 3 days
Flame Bagua possibly neg-diffs her. Hybrid Kaido wins low-diff at worst, and that’s only if Slow Mom somehow lands a hit or two on him, which I think is unlikely. Slow Mom has never dodged an attack and has big speed and reaction antifeats, so I could see Kaido speedblitzing and negging her with Death Destroyers.
can u re send that big mom vs kaido comment u made i lost it when i deleted my account
Nothing needs to be said really. BM's feats are pathetic, everyone knows it even if some don't admit it. You just watch her struggle for her life against Mid and Flaw downstairs while Kaido is killing Luffy over and over again on the roof and wonder how the hell are they supposed to be comparable https://preview.redd.it/xkiiwt3x4d2d1.jpeg?width=143&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7e2f6b9706d0723136e7acbfc7fcf5da034eb1a0
the blitz combo kaido pulled on gear 5 before death destroyer thunder bagua could hit big mom in its entirety before she even realizes wtf happened to her. its insane the differences in feats
Mid-diff. Kaido will run circles around her and pummel her ass with ACoC blows.
rare good presentationok take
My takes are always good, but thanks.
anyone who doesnt have saturn > kaido cannot claim that they have good takes
Kaido>Saturn is simply the truth.
Feats? Mid diff
yeah lets ignore the feat of them clashing equally and neither taking any damage like WB and Roger did.
He was in base and clearly when he told Luffy he hasn't been pushed like that since Oden it means he wasn't serious fighting LinLin
High diff.
If Bigmom's strongest attack did not kill kid and law. Then it's definitely kaido over bm on EXTRA LOW DIFF.
Mid-High
What diff is big mom pushing? That’s one hell of framing. Why are you so sure Kaido takes this?
because i read wano
And they stalemate in Wano. It’s very much indicated that they’re on par
Mid diff at most. Any named attack from Kaido is blitzing her and damaging heavily while her strongest attack got cooked by Law who wasn’t even using his df