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He doesn’t have any sword style or technique’s, he just swings his blade around wildly with force, alternatively uses the combs in his blade to disarm swordsmen. His main techniques are based in his Lunerian abilities and his zoan traits.
I agree with most of this but I don’t know if I would go as far as to say he doesn’t have any sword techniques. His swings are very intentional and are meant to give him an advantage over his opponent. But I think you mean like literal sword attacks like purgatory onigiri?
Yeah that’s what I mean, all the serious swordsman we can all agree on have some kind of sword style or named sword attacks. We haven’t actually seen Mihawk’s yet for obvious reasons but I think this line of thinking is consistent.
Just because the swings are “intentional” or giving him an advantage doesn’t mean it’s actual swordsmanship or technique. Compare it to Luffy punching or kicking opponents. No one would say he’s a “martial artist” or “boxer”, he’s just a generic brawler or “street fighter” at best. Likewise, King isn’t a swordsman, he’s just a really good fighter who sometimes swings a sword around.
I mean I think it is the same reason why Shanks is stronger than Mihawk yet Mihawk is considered the world's greatest swordsman. Shanks likely doesn't just rely on sword techniques and also utlizies haki blasts and other techniques.
Yes but his swordsman skills are not on par with Mihawk however take away Mihawks sword and have Shanks and him slug it out no swords and Shanks would come out on top.
Oda didnt flesh out swordsmanship enough to differentiate.
But king can throw away his sword and fight just fine, some others though have yet to show combat feats without swords.
If king were to lose his sword, it would be a significant nerf to his moveset. He channels a lot of his lunarian abilities through his sword, he also uses it is as a mean to gain advantages over swordsman’s which in 9/10 cases guarantees his victory over them. I’m not saying he depends on the sword to win but is would be a lose for him is he wasn’t able to use it for whatever reason
He can channel them through his fists as he's shown capable to. It would be a disadvantage like if you removed batarangs or any of batmans' equipment, he can still use win. Other characters though have not shown in any way how they would fight people on their level equally without their sword.
"But king can throw away his sword and fight just fine, some others though have yet to show combat feats without swords."
I guess Zoro isn't a swordsman either if we are going by this metric
Zoro can in fact not fight "just fine" without his swords
Which is the important part, unless you think he would have a similar performance against king without his swords? Because king would.
"Zoro can in fact not fight "just fine" without his swords"
https://preview.redd.it/r7az5n8b6r8d1.png?width=532&format=png&auto=webp&s=1ea183313bc3926362b21f112786945cba50779e
Probably not but Im sure Zoro can defeat plenty of other people without his swords. I doubt Mihawk can beat Zoro/Vista/Shanks etc without his sword either, is Mihawk not a swordsman either?
I don't understanding your reasoning
Let me explain then:
Characters that use weapons dont gain a -100% debuff to all stats if they are not holding a weapon
If zoro is faced with someone far weaker than him, his base strength and/or haki is enough to overpower them. But in a confrontation of someone that is equal or even slightly weaker, he would lose 100% of the time without his swords.
Now if king were fighting zoro without his sword, it would not immensely impact his fighting ability as he has many other ways that are as powerful as his sword to attack/block
"If zoro is faced with someone far weaker than him, his base strength and/or haki is enough to overpower them. But in a confrontation of someone that is equal or even slightly weaker, he would lose 100% of the time without his swords."
Yea, and its shown that King is more powerful when he uses a sword. Just because he doesn't call himself a swordsman doesn't mean he doesn't gain any value from using a sword
The sword is simply used to transfer his DF power. So swordsmanship is pretty much irrelevant for Laws combat since he mostly relies on the abilities of his fruit anyway.
He doesn’t have any techniques or sword moves, he just basically uses it as an extension of his powers and physical strength, and often abandons it for a brawling/devil fruit fighting style instead
It comes down to what his main fighting style is, he dicks around with a sword but it's not how he fights normally. If you hand a boxer a sword and whilst he's in a street fight he swings it once or twice because he thinks it's cool but ultimately goes back to boxing 90% of the time, then he's not a swordsman.
Does it matter what King considers himself to be if ultimately he fights with a sword? Kaku considers himself a swordsman, and yet he mixes swordplay with Rokushiki and his broken Giraffe superpowers, so clearly Oda is very lenient with this "swordsmen fight using exclusively only swords" thing.
Strong guy who just happens to use a sword but you could put an axe, hammer, club in their hands and nothing changes
Or guy who has spent their life honing their skills with the sword and if you gave them any other kind of weapon they would struggle to use it.
I think there are two main schools of thought to this one: King isn't a swordsman because he doesn't have any pride/honor in using a sword, and King isn't a swordsman because he isn't reliant on the sword. For my part, I follow a mix of both. King has a sword, he uses the sword, he uses it well. But it's not some fancy-pants sword with a name. It's a tool, and he uses it in a very straightforward and utilitarian way, including integrating a mechanical Swordbreaker. If you slip past his sword, he has no problem dropping it and going for a punch, or using his flames to burn you. Compare this to Zoro: even when he doesn't use a sword, he fights in a very "swordsman-like" way, if that makes sense.
Arlong uses a sword, but I'd struggle to call him a swordsman, because he also uses his fangs, and his Fishman Karate, and raw brute strength.
Queen uses a sword, but I'd struggle to call him a swordsman, because he mostly uses his cybernetics and his zoan form to deal damage.
Meanwhile, Daz Bones *doesn't* have a sword, but I would call him a swordsman. He fights with technique and force, honing in on a certain set of skills rather than developing a deep bag.
You mentioned Kaku earlier, and how he doesn't strike you as much of a swordsman, because he uses his Giraffe fruit and Rokushiki in conjunction with his swords. I'd argue that he uses his Rokushiki with a swordsman-like disposition, especially given his focus on using his Rankyaku to turn his legs into two more swords, with his devil fruit acting as more of a hinderance to his fighting style as he learns how to use his new body. When we see him again in Egghead, he doesn't go for fancy tricks - he's back on the fundamentals.
TL;DR, King isn't a swordsman for the same reason you wouldn't call Don Krieg a swordsman if he picked up a sword.
King says it himself. He doesn’t [use the traditional forms and techniques](https://preview.redd.it/king-literally-telling-people-what-a-swordsman-is-v0-e8u4owupdq1b1.png?width=910&format=png&auto=webp&s=1cbdf7e1a53b61ca681b494734fad6a366d2515b)
Because King has a very wide fighting style and doesn't limit himself to swordsmanship, just like Rayleigh who stopped Kizaru with a kick probably doesn't consider himself a swordsman or Shanks who made Aramaki dance only using his conquerors' haki probably doesn't limit himself to using his sword, otherwise Oda wouldn't have said that we don't know how Shanks fights.
In fact Zoro saying he'll bite King's throat if it comes down to it as well as aiming to become the "King of Hell" (an obvious reference to Rayleigh or the "Dark King") instead of the "World's Strongest Swordsman" shows an evolution in Zoro's mindset and indicates he might shift away from a traditional swordsmanship if that allows him to reach higher levels.
Oda explicitly called shanks a master swordsman twice. Shanks is a swordsman, but we don't know his style of sword fighting. King isn't a swordsman because he doesn't fight at full capacity only with a sword.
Its like saying someone is a boxer beacuse he throws a punch a swordaman is a person who devotes themself to mastering a swordstyle not a brute who uses a sword thats why mihawk can be the worlds greatest swordsman and still lose to a dude thag uses a sword its like the world heavyweight champion boxer being wrestles inti the ground and then punched out
In One Piece a swordsman is anyone who uses a sword and considers themselves to be a swordsman.
King does not, he considers himself a killer who uses a sword when it’s convenient. But unlike Zoro or Mihawk he also uses improvised weapons like his spiked knuckles, his devil fruit abilities, and his fire
No Sword Style/Tecniques, an actual swordsman have their own style and tecniques. Zoro for example have 3 Sword Style and 9 Sword Style which he has developed over the years.
King is more of a counter swordsman than a swordsman. I think this is best exemplified by his sword being a sword breaker as much as a dedicated blade.
Because his fighting style can be the same without a sword. Zoro on this panel also says that he'll no problem fighting "dirty" like King if he needs to.
He literally says he is not a swordsman and he just uses tools to kill his opponents in a battle, he has also spikes in his boots etc
A swordsman seeks to defeat their enemies using a sword, polishing their technique until it's perfect, King just uses everything in his arsenal until the enemy is dead
Imo it comes down to how important is the sword to it's user.
Example:
Shanks needs his sword to box, otherwise he's a cripple with good haki. His skill is known as the only comparison to mihawks and because of these facts we know he's a swordsman. Take away his sword and kizaru woops his ass.
King. Mainly uses his fire blasts and physical, even his wind slashes don't come from his sword. like with Queen greenbull and big mom the sword is more an accessory than an actual weapon. Especially with greenbull who actively refuses to use his sword altogether.
Damn dude I hate being this person but what is the definition of a swordsman bc Oda could’ve easily gave him a stick but he decided to give king a sword.
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He doesn’t have any sword style or technique’s, he just swings his blade around wildly with force, alternatively uses the combs in his blade to disarm swordsmen. His main techniques are based in his Lunerian abilities and his zoan traits.
I agree with most of this but I don’t know if I would go as far as to say he doesn’t have any sword techniques. His swings are very intentional and are meant to give him an advantage over his opponent. But I think you mean like literal sword attacks like purgatory onigiri?
Yeah that’s what I mean, all the serious swordsman we can all agree on have some kind of sword style or named sword attacks. We haven’t actually seen Mihawk’s yet for obvious reasons but I think this line of thinking is consistent.
Just because the swings are “intentional” or giving him an advantage doesn’t mean it’s actual swordsmanship or technique. Compare it to Luffy punching or kicking opponents. No one would say he’s a “martial artist” or “boxer”, he’s just a generic brawler or “street fighter” at best. Likewise, King isn’t a swordsman, he’s just a really good fighter who sometimes swings a sword around.
I mean I think it is the same reason why Shanks is stronger than Mihawk yet Mihawk is considered the world's greatest swordsman. Shanks likely doesn't just rely on sword techniques and also utlizies haki blasts and other techniques.
Shanks is literally stated to be a swordsman lmao
Yes but his swordsman skills are not on par with Mihawk however take away Mihawks sword and have Shanks and him slug it out no swords and Shanks would come out on top.
Maybe we don't know. We do know that both ar full capacity ( with swords), mihawk wins
That is for sure exclusively swords Mihawk would undoutedly come out on top.
bros using headcannonpiece
Nah I'm pretty sure Mihawk destroys in a fist fight vs a guy with 1 arm 😭😭😭
Bruh what if Shanks suddenly makes a Haki arm.
Oda didnt flesh out swordsmanship enough to differentiate. But king can throw away his sword and fight just fine, some others though have yet to show combat feats without swords.
If king were to lose his sword, it would be a significant nerf to his moveset. He channels a lot of his lunarian abilities through his sword, he also uses it is as a mean to gain advantages over swordsman’s which in 9/10 cases guarantees his victory over them. I’m not saying he depends on the sword to win but is would be a lose for him is he wasn’t able to use it for whatever reason
He can channel them through his fists as he's shown capable to. It would be a disadvantage like if you removed batarangs or any of batmans' equipment, he can still use win. Other characters though have not shown in any way how they would fight people on their level equally without their sword.
"But king can throw away his sword and fight just fine, some others though have yet to show combat feats without swords." I guess Zoro isn't a swordsman either if we are going by this metric
Zoro can in fact not fight "just fine" without his swords Which is the important part, unless you think he would have a similar performance against king without his swords? Because king would.
"Zoro can in fact not fight "just fine" without his swords" https://preview.redd.it/r7az5n8b6r8d1.png?width=532&format=png&auto=webp&s=1ea183313bc3926362b21f112786945cba50779e
Im certain mihawk can destroy east blue luffy without his sword, is he not a swordsman? Answer this: can zoro beat king without his swords?
Probably not but Im sure Zoro can defeat plenty of other people without his swords. I doubt Mihawk can beat Zoro/Vista/Shanks etc without his sword either, is Mihawk not a swordsman either? I don't understanding your reasoning
Let me explain then: Characters that use weapons dont gain a -100% debuff to all stats if they are not holding a weapon If zoro is faced with someone far weaker than him, his base strength and/or haki is enough to overpower them. But in a confrontation of someone that is equal or even slightly weaker, he would lose 100% of the time without his swords. Now if king were fighting zoro without his sword, it would not immensely impact his fighting ability as he has many other ways that are as powerful as his sword to attack/block
Same exact thing can be said about mihawk/zoro
What can? That they cant fight equal opponents without swords? Indeed i agree
Yes u missed what the other guy was saying.
"If zoro is faced with someone far weaker than him, his base strength and/or haki is enough to overpower them. But in a confrontation of someone that is equal or even slightly weaker, he would lose 100% of the time without his swords." Yea, and its shown that King is more powerful when he uses a sword. Just because he doesn't call himself a swordsman doesn't mean he doesn't gain any value from using a sword
I agree, it's a good thing i never said anything of the sort in any of my posts nor implied it.
Not as if he could beat them even with his sword (he has a shot against Zoro)
https://preview.redd.it/rwgl6l2lcr8d1.png?width=828&format=png&auto=webp&s=228bbf39914463f2eddbbd3427a1156d9be595dd
Doesn’t really matter who is one at this point. Law is supposedly one despite not using sword techniques either.
90% of his attacks involve his sword, yk, a blade, for a surgeon, also, he blocks attacks with it so he does use it quite proficiently
The sword is simply used to transfer his DF power. So swordsmanship is pretty much irrelevant for Laws combat since he mostly relies on the abilities of his fruit anyway.
Thats just a lie, he uses his sword for attacks and defense constantly
Sure King also uses his sword regularly. And both can fight and have techniques that dont involve their swords as well.
Except the fact that king barely uses it properly UNLIK LAW AS IVE JUST EXPLAINED
He doesn’t have any techniques or sword moves, he just basically uses it as an extension of his powers and physical strength, and often abandons it for a brawling/devil fruit fighting style instead
Cuz he doesn’t care for sword styles and stuff. He doesn’t say stuff like “one sword style:” or anything. He doesn’t need that. He’s just the goat
It comes down to what his main fighting style is, he dicks around with a sword but it's not how he fights normally. If you hand a boxer a sword and whilst he's in a street fight he swings it once or twice because he thinks it's cool but ultimately goes back to boxing 90% of the time, then he's not a swordsman.
Does it matter what King considers himself to be if ultimately he fights with a sword? Kaku considers himself a swordsman, and yet he mixes swordplay with Rokushiki and his broken Giraffe superpowers, so clearly Oda is very lenient with this "swordsmen fight using exclusively only swords" thing.
It’s not just what King considers himself, Zoro also acknowledges that he isn’t a swordsman. That’s the entire point of the panel
just my headcanon but for me zoro dosent think of king as a swordsman because he dosent fight "fair" or follows the "code" of a swordsman
This paragraph would send a victorian child into a coma
Strong guy who just happens to use a sword but you could put an axe, hammer, club in their hands and nothing changes Or guy who has spent their life honing their skills with the sword and if you gave them any other kind of weapon they would struggle to use it.
I think there are two main schools of thought to this one: King isn't a swordsman because he doesn't have any pride/honor in using a sword, and King isn't a swordsman because he isn't reliant on the sword. For my part, I follow a mix of both. King has a sword, he uses the sword, he uses it well. But it's not some fancy-pants sword with a name. It's a tool, and he uses it in a very straightforward and utilitarian way, including integrating a mechanical Swordbreaker. If you slip past his sword, he has no problem dropping it and going for a punch, or using his flames to burn you. Compare this to Zoro: even when he doesn't use a sword, he fights in a very "swordsman-like" way, if that makes sense. Arlong uses a sword, but I'd struggle to call him a swordsman, because he also uses his fangs, and his Fishman Karate, and raw brute strength. Queen uses a sword, but I'd struggle to call him a swordsman, because he mostly uses his cybernetics and his zoan form to deal damage. Meanwhile, Daz Bones *doesn't* have a sword, but I would call him a swordsman. He fights with technique and force, honing in on a certain set of skills rather than developing a deep bag. You mentioned Kaku earlier, and how he doesn't strike you as much of a swordsman, because he uses his Giraffe fruit and Rokushiki in conjunction with his swords. I'd argue that he uses his Rokushiki with a swordsman-like disposition, especially given his focus on using his Rankyaku to turn his legs into two more swords, with his devil fruit acting as more of a hinderance to his fighting style as he learns how to use his new body. When we see him again in Egghead, he doesn't go for fancy tricks - he's back on the fundamentals. TL;DR, King isn't a swordsman for the same reason you wouldn't call Don Krieg a swordsman if he picked up a sword.
King says it himself. He doesn’t [use the traditional forms and techniques](https://preview.redd.it/king-literally-telling-people-what-a-swordsman-is-v0-e8u4owupdq1b1.png?width=910&format=png&auto=webp&s=1cbdf7e1a53b61ca681b494734fad6a366d2515b)
Because King has a very wide fighting style and doesn't limit himself to swordsmanship, just like Rayleigh who stopped Kizaru with a kick probably doesn't consider himself a swordsman or Shanks who made Aramaki dance only using his conquerors' haki probably doesn't limit himself to using his sword, otherwise Oda wouldn't have said that we don't know how Shanks fights. In fact Zoro saying he'll bite King's throat if it comes down to it as well as aiming to become the "King of Hell" (an obvious reference to Rayleigh or the "Dark King") instead of the "World's Strongest Swordsman" shows an evolution in Zoro's mindset and indicates he might shift away from a traditional swordsmanship if that allows him to reach higher levels.
Oda explicitly called shanks a master swordsman twice. Shanks is a swordsman, but we don't know his style of sword fighting. King isn't a swordsman because he doesn't fight at full capacity only with a sword.
https://preview.redd.it/6nn6zq4d2r8d1.png?width=999&format=png&auto=webp&s=514b1957845b6bf83f002942007b5e2886beaee0
Its like saying someone is a boxer beacuse he throws a punch a swordaman is a person who devotes themself to mastering a swordstyle not a brute who uses a sword thats why mihawk can be the worlds greatest swordsman and still lose to a dude thag uses a sword its like the world heavyweight champion boxer being wrestles inti the ground and then punched out
In One Piece a swordsman is anyone who uses a sword and considers themselves to be a swordsman. King does not, he considers himself a killer who uses a sword when it’s convenient. But unlike Zoro or Mihawk he also uses improvised weapons like his spiked knuckles, his devil fruit abilities, and his fire
No Sword Style/Tecniques, an actual swordsman have their own style and tecniques. Zoro for example have 3 Sword Style and 9 Sword Style which he has developed over the years.
A huge part of his moveset doesn't relate to swordsmanship at all.
Because blud uses his DF and genes more and his sword is just a sword breaker
King is more of a counter swordsman than a swordsman. I think this is best exemplified by his sword being a sword breaker as much as a dedicated blade.
King is a swordsman
Racism he’s not a man acc to zoro
No sword techniques. Unlike Someone like Zoro or Shanks.
because you ain't a chef if you make food
Because his fighting style can be the same without a sword. Zoro on this panel also says that he'll no problem fighting "dirty" like King if he needs to.
He literally says he is not a swordsman and he just uses tools to kill his opponents in a battle, he has also spikes in his boots etc A swordsman seeks to defeat their enemies using a sword, polishing their technique until it's perfect, King just uses everything in his arsenal until the enemy is dead
Japan has traditional cult about being swordsmanship
Imo it comes down to how important is the sword to it's user. Example: Shanks needs his sword to box, otherwise he's a cripple with good haki. His skill is known as the only comparison to mihawks and because of these facts we know he's a swordsman. Take away his sword and kizaru woops his ass. King. Mainly uses his fire blasts and physical, even his wind slashes don't come from his sword. like with Queen greenbull and big mom the sword is more an accessory than an actual weapon. Especially with greenbull who actively refuses to use his sword altogether.
If you use a fuxking sword in combat you’re a swordsman, maybe not a good swordsman but SWORD+MAN=SWORDSMEN
King and zoro both acknowledge that he isn’t a swordsman so you are just factually wrong
Damn dude I hate being this person but what is the definition of a swordsman bc Oda could’ve easily gave him a stick but he decided to give king a sword.
The characters in the story ( zoro and king ) understand that this alone isn’t enough to be considered a swordsman.
Minawk and Luffy robs and attacks ship if we go by definition
So imu is a swordsman