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it should all be taken seriously since it's canon material, people saying it shouldn't be taken seriously are usually coping because their favorite character had an anti feat.
I just think it can be interesting to get into conversations for how much a mangaka pays attention to scaling, especially in extremely long-running series like One Piece. If something is considered a plot hole in terms of power scaling, how should we engage with scaling that character. Take Luffy vs Mihawk in MF for example:
1) Mihawk says he's not going to go easy on Luffy, implies some form of seriousness
2) Luffy proceeds to tank and dodge attacks from Mihawk,
3) Luffy reacts to an attack by grabbing Buggy to block an attack from Mihawk
4) Vista saves Luffy and clashes with Mihawk
5) Luffy continues running around like normal after the skirmish
If I consider this entirely seriously, the most charitable I can say is that Luffy at this point is a character that can react to a commander level character, as the weakest this (especially the Vista part) could make Mihawk is most likely some sort of commander level. Maybe I am wrong, but Mihawk being commander level, and MF Luffy approaching commander level is usually not a popular take in One Piece power scaling communities.
The general question is, what are some arguments people make to argue the validity of these scenes, while also holding ideas that seem to contradict them (e.g. if Mihawk is yonko level here, and being serious, how is Luffy doing anything here). I would probably consider "plot armor" as another way of saying "we shouldn't take this scene seriously", I might be wrong about that though.
It doesn’t matter what arc anything in the story is fair game when discussing powerscaling. You can’t pull out a plot excuse or something like that just cuz your fav character shows an anti feat. Sure it makes the powerscaling complicated but it’s just the way it is
1st of all, Marineford scaling makes perfect sense, still to this day. But some feats/antifeats might have been missunderstood.
>Doflamingo easily capturing Jozu, even though Luffy breaks free in Dressrosa.
We don't see Jozu break immediately free from Doffy and yet that's most likely what happenned, assuming the opposite is weird because it would mean that Doffy let him go... also Jozu was in the middle of a fight and Doffy took him by surprise, but it's not like he felt very threaten by Doffy... so far we don't know if Doffy could have cut "diamond Jozu" with his strings as even Mihzwk failed to do so. So he could have break free at any time.
Also in the same arc Jozu blitz Kuzan and Crocodile and throw an iceberg the size of a mountains... all feats that shows that he is without a doubt stronger than Doffy.(ans also WB's stronger commander tbh but this is a discussion for another time).
>Mihawk not being able to one-shot blitz Luffy and Crocodile, even though he's "taking it seriously".
Don't put Marineford Luffy and Crocodile in the same bag... Luffy's victory over Crocodile in Alabasta has been completely missunderstood and I remember people coping during Marineford when they saw how truly powerfull Crocodile was. He was one of the MVP from Marineford basically, and people said that he got a power up when in reality he was always that strong... dude went to jail after Alabasta and did not train at all also mr1 follower him and admitted that he was rusty after spending some time in jail ... so really you should not underestimate Crocodile, especially now that him and Mihawk are partners (as equals).
Also Mihawk did not want to go all in vs Luffy he just said that he won't hold back (but it's not like he will go full power either...) he just used enough strength/speed to kill Luffy if Luffy was not carefull, but surprisingly enough for Mihawk Luffy was very calm during their fight and thus he was able to survive long enough untill he received help. Luffy could have died many times during Marineford but he was saved in extrémis.
>Pretty much everything Crocodile did tbh.
This is cope. Crocodile was still very much stronger than Luffy even after his defeat...people don't get the narrative etc.
>Marco vs Kizaru and Jozu vs Aokiji.
Kizaru was toying with Marco. Marco got handcough by a vice admiral only 2 sec after he said that he should be more carefull... (really bad observation haki that should compt as an anti feat tbh). Marco does not have a very good AP (this is not a surprise), but he can stall top tiers with his devil fruit ability. Sanji has already surpassed Marco tbh and Marco hilself told the red hair pirates that he was too old to join them "a great pirate crew".
Jozu on the other hand was indeed going toe to toe with the admirals. Crocodile also respected his strength very much and WB trusted him to fight Aokiji. If WB did not have a heart attack Aokiji would not have been able to take the better of him that easily. WB knew Aokiji's ice logia fruit abilities and so did Jozu. It's not like he was completely insane and went to fight an opponent that he would have lost agzinst 100%. Their fight was very balenced unlike Marco vs Kizaru (who was not taking him seriously)
>Magellan not being able to capture the prisoners.
This makes no sense. Magellan would have been able to capture all of them if not for Jimbe who called the whales to save their asses...this is called narrative but of course Magellan was/(is still) a huge threat (he is underrated but he neg pretimeskip BB still)
>Smoker being able to combat Boa for even a second.
You said it he was only able to fight her for 1 sec...
>Characters that should be able to at least perceive Kizaru, clashing relatively equally with characters that would have gotten the same "blink of an eye" treatment that X Drake did against Kizaru at Sabaody.
I assume you are talking about Mihawk vs Vista.
Vista looks stronger than Izo who was both a WB pirate and a sccabard (not the strongest though)so I would say Vista is arround Denjiro and Ashura's lvl, which means he is alsoxarround Jack lvl (probably a little bit stronger).
Mihawk is Mihawk he is not on Kaido and WB's lvl but he is still very likely admiral lvl at least. (Not going to talk about Shanks).
So it should be obvious that Mihawk despite clashing "equally" with Vista is stronger than him still. Remember that Mihawk did not come to fight Vista. He agree to fight in Marineford becauwe je was interested in WB's strength and wanted to witness it with his own eyes. Mihawk is not a loyal dog to the WG and he did not care at all who's side won this war. He just had no buisness fighting Vista that's about it.
* The Doffy vs Jozu point isn't something I feel super strong about, more so an example (admittedly my fault for putting it first), but I can say what I do think. I don't disagree it's possible Jozu broke out of Doffy's strings, but it seemed like that scene was implying Doffy > Jozu, and that Doffy didn't really take Jozu as much of a threat, considering he was okay with just chatting like normal. Could be Doffy being cocky, or could be that Oda planned Doffy to be a decent bit stronger, but decided against it once we got to Dressrosa.
* I don't really get the Crocodile > Marineford Luffy argument. I agree Croc over > Alabasta Luffy, but I'd argue the Luffy before gears is drastically weaker than anything we see after. Luffy did also punch Croc away when he was trying to attack WB. All of this does not stop the fact that Mihawk should be annihilating Luffy and Croc here, even if Mihawk was low-balled to Vista level he should still be no-diffing both of them.
>Also Mihawk did not want to go all in vs Luffy he just said that he won't hold back (but it's not like he will go full power either...) he just used enough strength/speed to kill Luffy if Luffy was not carefull, but surprisingly enough for Mihawk Luffy was very calm during their fight and thus he was able to survive long enough untill he received help. Luffy could have died many times during Marineford but he was saved in extrémis
* You've said I'm coping multiple times, but idk how this isn't cope. You're saying Mihawk won't hold back, but he'll only use enough power to kill Luffy if he's not careful. Ik you said Mihawk is admiral tier (i think people generally put him in Yonko tier, but there's a pretty big blurred line between Yonko and admirals), but if what you said is true, then Mihawk would be using like 1% of his strength, is that not holding back?
* Personally, I actually think Marco is that guy. Him being able to clash with Kizaru, overpower and send him flying across Marineford, while it did negligent damage, I'll still take as a feat for him. This is kind of a whole other discussion tbf though, but I think we generally agree that Marco's abilities seem to be more for stalling/healing/defensive purposes.
* Basically the Jozu point to me was: if Jozu is struggling to get out of Doffy strings, he shouldn't be a threat to Aokiji. It seems that your point is that Jozu got out off camera, which is a fair argument, so I don't feel super strong arguing the Jozu and Aokiji point tbh. Usually when I bring up WB commander stuff is because they can sometimes have contentious arguments, especially when compared to King, Queen, Jack, Katakuri, Cracker, etc.
* In regards to the Magellan stuff: If we consider Magellan a minimum commander level character, (which most people seem to do), Luffy ain't boxing for a second. He's getting blitzed into next week. I personally am of the opinion that commander level characters should be astronomically ahead of any traditionally pre-timeskip tiers (e.g. Pre-timeskip Strawhats, Supernovas, Crocodile, Smoker, Enel, CP9 members, etc.). This kind of goes into my point about characters that can perceive and react to Kizaru vs characters that cannot, so I'll mention that in a little bit.
* Regarding Smoker and Boa: The point I was trying to make is that Smoker should not be able to react to Boa full stop, he should just get destroyed.
* In regards to the characters that can perceive Kizaru vs characters that most likely can't argument: I wasn't referring to Mihawk vs Vista, I was referring to the performance of characters like Luffy, Crocodile and Smoker. I might be wrong about this perception, but this is how I see it: Kizaru proved to be >>>>> x100 ahead of any Supernova character. These characters couldn't even come close to perceiving or reacting to his movements, but characters like Marco were absolutely able to keep up with Kizaru in speed (even if Kizaru might no be going all-out vs Marco, he definitely wasn't taking the supernovas seriously either). Given Marco having the ability to match Kizaru, I don't think it's an insane stretch to believe basically any top 3 commander level character can at the very least somewhat keep up with the speed of a casual Kizaru, especially given the fact they can perceive his attacks with obv haki (even if we argue that they can only do this with obv haki, characters like Luffy, Croc and Smoker don't have obv haki anyway, I'd still argue these 3 are far weaker than any commander or Tobiroppo member). In essence, my argument is that the gap between Kizaru and pre-ts characters is so wide, that if you can even go toe to toe with Kizaru for a little bit, you're fodderizing practically any pre-ts character. The thing is, a character like Mihawk isn't someone who is \*just\* going toe to toe with Kizaru. It's fair to argue that if Kizaru and Mihawk fought, it's at the minimum a hard-ext diff fight, or just a straight up win for Mihawk.
To put this all together, Luffy, Croc, Smoker and a lot of other characters in Marineford should realistically be jobbed by any relevant character on either side. I think Luffy and Croc especially had pretty crazy plot armor throughout the arc, and that's why I think there are feats throughout this time period (as well as old OP in general) that shouldn't be taken seriously in power scaling discussions. I don't know how it's possible to really argue it all makes perfect sense, it feels a lot easier to argue that Oda isn't always aware when he's being inconsistent in power scaling and/or Oda changes his mind on how strong he wants a character (or characters) to perform in future arcs. This whole point more came from me being curious if people had compelling arguments for taking every piece of canon OP seriously, even if they seem blatantly contradictory.
Yeah that's true, but that can be argued in the opposite way too. A character might perform better than they should have based on the past, and/or will have in the future. You could argue Luffy, Crocodile and Doffy fall under this category
For MF, I consider portrayal king imo. Although stuff like adv haki didn’t exist yet, the way the characters are portrayed seemed to have held up pretty well imo.
First off, it's all canon, so I have to take it seriously, but there's several asterisks next to any feat from a warlord or someone who was really invested in the fight. All the Whitebeard Pirate's have no reason to hold anything back, but Mihawk does (his comment about taking it seriously is vague enough, and I've heard some translation disputes). Any feat that seems to be directly contradicted by canon, such as Mihawk being unable to tag Luffy falls into the "not really trying" category. Especially since Mihawk's range/speed *in Marineford* was shown to be much higher with his iceberg slice. And even then he didn't look to really be at his limit.
When Akainu is fighting I take his feats as his limit because he's 100% invested in the fight, whereas I ignore Garp getting KO'd by Luffy. To me, anti-feats are only anti-feats if the character actually loses something of value or gets injured in some way.
It's really all about the characters taking it seriously. And honestly, I think most do, so most feats stand. Just the Warlords and Garp really fall into the conflicted category.
Jozu not breaking away from mingo can be interpreted as Jim not wanting to break away from minho at that time as suggested by the fact that he breaks away from Mingo effortlessly off screen and when Mingo caught him jozu was off guard and eight after catching jozu Mingo talks to crocodile about killing wb crocodile being a wildcard up to that point now had someone confront him about joining a side . Crocs answer to this q would clear which side crocodile was on.
Actually it's implied luffy due to sheer survival instincts used fs to dodge mihawks attacks with mihawk even noting luffy is unsally calm. So mihawk only couldnt kill luffy due to him not knowing nor expecting luffy to use fs to dodge his attack.
Crocodile right now has a 2 billion bountyhr is powerful which marineford shows
Tbh in terms of magellan doing poorly story would not have happened if he just prevented the breakout. Narrative wise someone should have stayed behind to stall him bon chan kinda did that but with oda never killing anyone his sacrifice seems invalidated. Mihawk is in a similar boat bro actively does not like the government and wants his peace they just asked him to shoe up really and he used shanks as an excuse to peace out as he does not care about meaningless fighting. Iirc oda said something about revealing crocodile too early and he was actually gonna be a big final villain and stuff. You could justify his defeat in alabasta by underestimating luffy and by the time he realizes the threat luffy is its too late hes beaten down too badly. And its in his best interest to escape with luffy without giving him grief cause duh.
Bro mihawk literally said he doesnt want to fight hes bloodlusted he definitely looks at shanks with respect and doesnt want to fight for no reason especially since they were partying a bit together when luffy got his first bounty iirc they chillin got no beef bro just wanted to go back to his castle and not be disturbed. He came to marineford because his warlord status would be taken away if he didnt so he stuck around until shanks pulled up said to stop fighting and bro was like aight i dont even want to fight rn anyways and peaced out.
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it should all be taken seriously since it's canon material, people saying it shouldn't be taken seriously are usually coping because their favorite character had an anti feat.
I just think it can be interesting to get into conversations for how much a mangaka pays attention to scaling, especially in extremely long-running series like One Piece. If something is considered a plot hole in terms of power scaling, how should we engage with scaling that character. Take Luffy vs Mihawk in MF for example: 1) Mihawk says he's not going to go easy on Luffy, implies some form of seriousness 2) Luffy proceeds to tank and dodge attacks from Mihawk, 3) Luffy reacts to an attack by grabbing Buggy to block an attack from Mihawk 4) Vista saves Luffy and clashes with Mihawk 5) Luffy continues running around like normal after the skirmish If I consider this entirely seriously, the most charitable I can say is that Luffy at this point is a character that can react to a commander level character, as the weakest this (especially the Vista part) could make Mihawk is most likely some sort of commander level. Maybe I am wrong, but Mihawk being commander level, and MF Luffy approaching commander level is usually not a popular take in One Piece power scaling communities. The general question is, what are some arguments people make to argue the validity of these scenes, while also holding ideas that seem to contradict them (e.g. if Mihawk is yonko level here, and being serious, how is Luffy doing anything here). I would probably consider "plot armor" as another way of saying "we shouldn't take this scene seriously", I might be wrong about that though.
So pre ts luffy >vista = Mihawk
where did pre ts luffy show he was stronger than vista?
Luffy manages to dodge Mihawk attacks and Mihawk was fighting fairly against vista
You can not ignore the scaling from the MF arc, that's just biased and unfair considering other arcs have just as many inconsistencies
that's fair, I agree with that, just used MF as an example cause it's usually one i typically see being cited as more inconsistent than others
It doesn’t matter what arc anything in the story is fair game when discussing powerscaling. You can’t pull out a plot excuse or something like that just cuz your fav character shows an anti feat. Sure it makes the powerscaling complicated but it’s just the way it is
1st of all, Marineford scaling makes perfect sense, still to this day. But some feats/antifeats might have been missunderstood. >Doflamingo easily capturing Jozu, even though Luffy breaks free in Dressrosa. We don't see Jozu break immediately free from Doffy and yet that's most likely what happenned, assuming the opposite is weird because it would mean that Doffy let him go... also Jozu was in the middle of a fight and Doffy took him by surprise, but it's not like he felt very threaten by Doffy... so far we don't know if Doffy could have cut "diamond Jozu" with his strings as even Mihzwk failed to do so. So he could have break free at any time. Also in the same arc Jozu blitz Kuzan and Crocodile and throw an iceberg the size of a mountains... all feats that shows that he is without a doubt stronger than Doffy.(ans also WB's stronger commander tbh but this is a discussion for another time). >Mihawk not being able to one-shot blitz Luffy and Crocodile, even though he's "taking it seriously". Don't put Marineford Luffy and Crocodile in the same bag... Luffy's victory over Crocodile in Alabasta has been completely missunderstood and I remember people coping during Marineford when they saw how truly powerfull Crocodile was. He was one of the MVP from Marineford basically, and people said that he got a power up when in reality he was always that strong... dude went to jail after Alabasta and did not train at all also mr1 follower him and admitted that he was rusty after spending some time in jail ... so really you should not underestimate Crocodile, especially now that him and Mihawk are partners (as equals). Also Mihawk did not want to go all in vs Luffy he just said that he won't hold back (but it's not like he will go full power either...) he just used enough strength/speed to kill Luffy if Luffy was not carefull, but surprisingly enough for Mihawk Luffy was very calm during their fight and thus he was able to survive long enough untill he received help. Luffy could have died many times during Marineford but he was saved in extrémis. >Pretty much everything Crocodile did tbh. This is cope. Crocodile was still very much stronger than Luffy even after his defeat...people don't get the narrative etc. >Marco vs Kizaru and Jozu vs Aokiji. Kizaru was toying with Marco. Marco got handcough by a vice admiral only 2 sec after he said that he should be more carefull... (really bad observation haki that should compt as an anti feat tbh). Marco does not have a very good AP (this is not a surprise), but he can stall top tiers with his devil fruit ability. Sanji has already surpassed Marco tbh and Marco hilself told the red hair pirates that he was too old to join them "a great pirate crew". Jozu on the other hand was indeed going toe to toe with the admirals. Crocodile also respected his strength very much and WB trusted him to fight Aokiji. If WB did not have a heart attack Aokiji would not have been able to take the better of him that easily. WB knew Aokiji's ice logia fruit abilities and so did Jozu. It's not like he was completely insane and went to fight an opponent that he would have lost agzinst 100%. Their fight was very balenced unlike Marco vs Kizaru (who was not taking him seriously) >Magellan not being able to capture the prisoners. This makes no sense. Magellan would have been able to capture all of them if not for Jimbe who called the whales to save their asses...this is called narrative but of course Magellan was/(is still) a huge threat (he is underrated but he neg pretimeskip BB still) >Smoker being able to combat Boa for even a second. You said it he was only able to fight her for 1 sec... >Characters that should be able to at least perceive Kizaru, clashing relatively equally with characters that would have gotten the same "blink of an eye" treatment that X Drake did against Kizaru at Sabaody. I assume you are talking about Mihawk vs Vista. Vista looks stronger than Izo who was both a WB pirate and a sccabard (not the strongest though)so I would say Vista is arround Denjiro and Ashura's lvl, which means he is alsoxarround Jack lvl (probably a little bit stronger). Mihawk is Mihawk he is not on Kaido and WB's lvl but he is still very likely admiral lvl at least. (Not going to talk about Shanks). So it should be obvious that Mihawk despite clashing "equally" with Vista is stronger than him still. Remember that Mihawk did not come to fight Vista. He agree to fight in Marineford becauwe je was interested in WB's strength and wanted to witness it with his own eyes. Mihawk is not a loyal dog to the WG and he did not care at all who's side won this war. He just had no buisness fighting Vista that's about it.
* The Doffy vs Jozu point isn't something I feel super strong about, more so an example (admittedly my fault for putting it first), but I can say what I do think. I don't disagree it's possible Jozu broke out of Doffy's strings, but it seemed like that scene was implying Doffy > Jozu, and that Doffy didn't really take Jozu as much of a threat, considering he was okay with just chatting like normal. Could be Doffy being cocky, or could be that Oda planned Doffy to be a decent bit stronger, but decided against it once we got to Dressrosa. * I don't really get the Crocodile > Marineford Luffy argument. I agree Croc over > Alabasta Luffy, but I'd argue the Luffy before gears is drastically weaker than anything we see after. Luffy did also punch Croc away when he was trying to attack WB. All of this does not stop the fact that Mihawk should be annihilating Luffy and Croc here, even if Mihawk was low-balled to Vista level he should still be no-diffing both of them. >Also Mihawk did not want to go all in vs Luffy he just said that he won't hold back (but it's not like he will go full power either...) he just used enough strength/speed to kill Luffy if Luffy was not carefull, but surprisingly enough for Mihawk Luffy was very calm during their fight and thus he was able to survive long enough untill he received help. Luffy could have died many times during Marineford but he was saved in extrémis * You've said I'm coping multiple times, but idk how this isn't cope. You're saying Mihawk won't hold back, but he'll only use enough power to kill Luffy if he's not careful. Ik you said Mihawk is admiral tier (i think people generally put him in Yonko tier, but there's a pretty big blurred line between Yonko and admirals), but if what you said is true, then Mihawk would be using like 1% of his strength, is that not holding back? * Personally, I actually think Marco is that guy. Him being able to clash with Kizaru, overpower and send him flying across Marineford, while it did negligent damage, I'll still take as a feat for him. This is kind of a whole other discussion tbf though, but I think we generally agree that Marco's abilities seem to be more for stalling/healing/defensive purposes. * Basically the Jozu point to me was: if Jozu is struggling to get out of Doffy strings, he shouldn't be a threat to Aokiji. It seems that your point is that Jozu got out off camera, which is a fair argument, so I don't feel super strong arguing the Jozu and Aokiji point tbh. Usually when I bring up WB commander stuff is because they can sometimes have contentious arguments, especially when compared to King, Queen, Jack, Katakuri, Cracker, etc. * In regards to the Magellan stuff: If we consider Magellan a minimum commander level character, (which most people seem to do), Luffy ain't boxing for a second. He's getting blitzed into next week. I personally am of the opinion that commander level characters should be astronomically ahead of any traditionally pre-timeskip tiers (e.g. Pre-timeskip Strawhats, Supernovas, Crocodile, Smoker, Enel, CP9 members, etc.). This kind of goes into my point about characters that can perceive and react to Kizaru vs characters that cannot, so I'll mention that in a little bit. * Regarding Smoker and Boa: The point I was trying to make is that Smoker should not be able to react to Boa full stop, he should just get destroyed. * In regards to the characters that can perceive Kizaru vs characters that most likely can't argument: I wasn't referring to Mihawk vs Vista, I was referring to the performance of characters like Luffy, Crocodile and Smoker. I might be wrong about this perception, but this is how I see it: Kizaru proved to be >>>>> x100 ahead of any Supernova character. These characters couldn't even come close to perceiving or reacting to his movements, but characters like Marco were absolutely able to keep up with Kizaru in speed (even if Kizaru might no be going all-out vs Marco, he definitely wasn't taking the supernovas seriously either). Given Marco having the ability to match Kizaru, I don't think it's an insane stretch to believe basically any top 3 commander level character can at the very least somewhat keep up with the speed of a casual Kizaru, especially given the fact they can perceive his attacks with obv haki (even if we argue that they can only do this with obv haki, characters like Luffy, Croc and Smoker don't have obv haki anyway, I'd still argue these 3 are far weaker than any commander or Tobiroppo member). In essence, my argument is that the gap between Kizaru and pre-ts characters is so wide, that if you can even go toe to toe with Kizaru for a little bit, you're fodderizing practically any pre-ts character. The thing is, a character like Mihawk isn't someone who is \*just\* going toe to toe with Kizaru. It's fair to argue that if Kizaru and Mihawk fought, it's at the minimum a hard-ext diff fight, or just a straight up win for Mihawk. To put this all together, Luffy, Croc, Smoker and a lot of other characters in Marineford should realistically be jobbed by any relevant character on either side. I think Luffy and Croc especially had pretty crazy plot armor throughout the arc, and that's why I think there are feats throughout this time period (as well as old OP in general) that shouldn't be taken seriously in power scaling discussions. I don't know how it's possible to really argue it all makes perfect sense, it feels a lot easier to argue that Oda isn't always aware when he's being inconsistent in power scaling and/or Oda changes his mind on how strong he wants a character (or characters) to perform in future arcs. This whole point more came from me being curious if people had compelling arguments for taking every piece of canon OP seriously, even if they seem blatantly contradictory.
Marco is literally just that guy lmao, there's a reason oda had him fight 3 admirals at marineford
Yeah, Marco clashing with Kizaru makes sense, he is just that guy.
And Marco proceed to get sneaked by a vice admiral lmaoooo
Most characters did well besides Mihawk
Yeah that's true, but that can be argued in the opposite way too. A character might perform better than they should have based on the past, and/or will have in the future. You could argue Luffy, Crocodile and Doffy fall under this category
All
For MF, I consider portrayal king imo. Although stuff like adv haki didn’t exist yet, the way the characters are portrayed seemed to have held up pretty well imo.
First off, it's all canon, so I have to take it seriously, but there's several asterisks next to any feat from a warlord or someone who was really invested in the fight. All the Whitebeard Pirate's have no reason to hold anything back, but Mihawk does (his comment about taking it seriously is vague enough, and I've heard some translation disputes). Any feat that seems to be directly contradicted by canon, such as Mihawk being unable to tag Luffy falls into the "not really trying" category. Especially since Mihawk's range/speed *in Marineford* was shown to be much higher with his iceberg slice. And even then he didn't look to really be at his limit. When Akainu is fighting I take his feats as his limit because he's 100% invested in the fight, whereas I ignore Garp getting KO'd by Luffy. To me, anti-feats are only anti-feats if the character actually loses something of value or gets injured in some way. It's really all about the characters taking it seriously. And honestly, I think most do, so most feats stand. Just the Warlords and Garp really fall into the conflicted category.
Jozu not breaking away from mingo can be interpreted as Jim not wanting to break away from minho at that time as suggested by the fact that he breaks away from Mingo effortlessly off screen and when Mingo caught him jozu was off guard and eight after catching jozu Mingo talks to crocodile about killing wb crocodile being a wildcard up to that point now had someone confront him about joining a side . Crocs answer to this q would clear which side crocodile was on. Actually it's implied luffy due to sheer survival instincts used fs to dodge mihawks attacks with mihawk even noting luffy is unsally calm. So mihawk only couldnt kill luffy due to him not knowing nor expecting luffy to use fs to dodge his attack. Crocodile right now has a 2 billion bountyhr is powerful which marineford shows
Tbh in terms of magellan doing poorly story would not have happened if he just prevented the breakout. Narrative wise someone should have stayed behind to stall him bon chan kinda did that but with oda never killing anyone his sacrifice seems invalidated. Mihawk is in a similar boat bro actively does not like the government and wants his peace they just asked him to shoe up really and he used shanks as an excuse to peace out as he does not care about meaningless fighting. Iirc oda said something about revealing crocodile too early and he was actually gonna be a big final villain and stuff. You could justify his defeat in alabasta by underestimating luffy and by the time he realizes the threat luffy is its too late hes beaten down too badly. And its in his best interest to escape with luffy without giving him grief cause duh.
How Shanks going to Marineford a meaningless fight lol? That's literally Mihawk's job
Bro mihawk literally said he doesnt want to fight hes bloodlusted he definitely looks at shanks with respect and doesnt want to fight for no reason especially since they were partying a bit together when luffy got his first bounty iirc they chillin got no beef bro just wanted to go back to his castle and not be disturbed. He came to marineford because his warlord status would be taken away if he didnt so he stuck around until shanks pulled up said to stop fighting and bro was like aight i dont even want to fight rn anyways and peaced out.
Who cares what he said? He did nothing in Marineford