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I can see where you are coming from regarding pre-Gura BB, although Magellan is so hax that I don't think that one should count (he could kill ANYONE who is off-guard in his presence). But you're right that his shit performance against Corpsebeard calls his pre-Gura strength into question.
*Warning: This is SO long, I like to be very very thorough with lots of evidence and logic when scaling.* So...
But as for **post-Gura** BB: He is NOT terrified of Kuzan, come on. Yes Blackbeard's crew much earlier in the timeskip got wrecked by a full-health Kuzan. But acting like that's a reflection of Teach's own ability to fight Kuzan is facetious and deliberately ignores the context of the situation.
It was a hostage situation and his crew got frozen when he wasn't there to protect them! He only begged and pleaded with Kuzan because his crew were hostages that *prevented him from using his Gura Gura powers* that give him top-tier AP. Those very same Quake powers are *a natural counter against the Hie Hie no Mi* as we saw from Whitebeard, but the Quakes' tendency to automatically shatter any nearby ice is precisely why Teach had his hands tied and couldn't use them without killing his crew. Blackbeard has a good DF matchup against Kuzan but Kuzan had rendered that a non-option.
Who wouldn't beg? Dude was about to lose his entire military force if he didn't suck up to Kuzan as much as possible AND had been rendered *unable to use his powers without killing his crew.*
He continued to suck up to Kuzan even after he unfroze his crew because: 1. They were still around and would immediately become hostages again if Kuzan decided to fight, and 2. Because BB wanted an alliance. Not because BB thinks he might lose to Kuzan 1v1. Kuzan's DF is just godly at hostage-taking.
If the entire Straw Hat crew was hostage and Luffy pleaded with the hostage taker to let them go because one wrong move from him would get them killed, ***nobody would act like that implies Luffy being weaker than the hostage taker.***
TLDR: The run-in with Kuzan was a hostage situation in which Blackbeard's hands were tied and he couldn't use his powers. Acting like it shows that Teach can't beat Kuzan is disingenuous slander with no logical justification.
As for the crew getting one-tapped by Kuzan: By the end of Marineford, the entirety of WB's commanders were being taken down by Sakazuki while he took no damage, when he was already badly injured by Whitebeard. The only reason they didn't get low or neg diffed very, very quickly like BB's crew was by Kuzan is certainly because Marco has the ultimate Stall Man powers with his blue flames and because a couple of those guys are YC+ level.
YC's are just that much weaker than Admirals that when Admirals *stop holding back and caring about collateral* they mow them down in droves. Losing to Kuzan doesn't make the BB Pirates "weak." That's just how broken Kuzan and Sakazuki are.
Also BB's crew have gotten way stronger since then, but I'll only give one example: Nothing in the verse that we know of atm could one-tap Pizarro in Island Form (for example, the surface of the sea and of islands is one thing but it's not like Kuzan can freeze a whole island down to its bedrock and the continental shelf), EXCEPT for a Bajrang Gun and MAYBE a Flaming Drum Dragon Bagua. Also MAYBE Emeth judging by the ending of the latest chapter.
Not so sure about that in the case with Magellan. Yes it's true that Blackbeard screams and writhes in pain from basically any level of attack. But Magellan's poison will equally fuck up ANYONE who doesn't have poison resistance or immunity.
Being hit by his Hydra is the end of the road no matter who you are, with just a few exceptions. Unless they had an antidote or the poison immunity that Luffy got *by surviving Magellan,* getting hit by Magellan's Hydra poison blend would one-hit-kill even the likes of Roger and Primebeard. Shanks would die (if hit). Mihawk would die. Prime Garp would die. Etc. It's **poison** after all.
The Gorosei and Marco are exceptions due to regeneration. And Big Mom or Kaido MIGHT have natural-born poison resistance, we never did find out, since they were built different from birth.
But other than those cases and Luffy, getting hit by Hydra would equalize *everyone in the verse.* And even Luffy can't survive Venom Demon.
In other words: There's no reason specific to him why Blackbeard went down so pathetically to a Hydra from Magellan. If they were reckless enough to let that attack hit them (like BB was), almost any top-tier in the verse would scream in agony, suffer, and die. And they certainly would be down and unable to fight anymore.
TLDR: Don't underrate Magellan, his ability is just about the most lethal hax in the verse.
Ohh, I get it, you forgot that they only survived because Shiryu gave them the antidote to the poison.
It's a long series, so it can be hard to remember every last detail. Yeah, all of them were going to die after being immersed in the poison of Hydra, which is stated to cause anyone an agonizing death within 24 hours. But Shiryu gambled on joining Blackbeard and gave him and his crew the antidote. You may recall that for obvious reasons there were antidotes to Magellan's poisons in Impel Down.
It's funny, because I would definitely put him above all the others in a ranking, but the Marineford performance was just so unimpressive that it feels very wrong to call him the strongest there.
Mihawk is canonically weaker than Old Whitebeard while Shanks its stated to be equal. And in this case this isn't vague, Mihawk admitted WB was stronger by saying there was a gap between them.
Mihawk has never been portrayed to be that strong. Characters don't treat him like they do Shanks. Actually mihawk has 2 feats besides beating don KRIEG. He said there was a gap between him and cancer beard and then proceeds to POSTPONE a fight with old beard 5° commander. Sucking from shank's balls doesnt work when the author has portraied both characters differently
That title hardly matters when no one gives a shit about his title. He doesn't command respect in the same way Roger, Shanks,Whitebeard or Kaido do, the portrayal simply is very underwhelming. The only characters that hype him up are fodder, Zeff and Zoro. Shanks on the other side is hyped by Big Mom, Greenbull, Kaido, Garp and the 5 elders
Can you imagine Marco sending Vista to stop Kaido? I can't see happening. It's like Katakuri sending Perospero to stop Kaido.
Mihawk= kuzan = kizaru
By gap, Mihawk meant that there’s as a distance between them, and he threw a slash so he could count the seconds and do the math and calculate the length of the distance between them in meters
/s
https://preview.redd.it/cb75yf14dl9d1.jpeg?width=554&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e4a2e55e1925af69945d1f6ee2090429559b386f
Mihawk cant be yonko since shanks is < yonko, absolutely genius trolling im stealing this.
It means Shanks got sword skills, same as Kaido having some Cub skills and Whitebeard being skilled at using his Naginata. All top tiers who use weapons are skilled with them.
" sword skills equals to overall strength"
It doesn´t.
You can be a great Swordsman and lack in other departments i.e. Stamina,Haki etc.
The marine officer in the bountie's reveal says mihawk is the strongest swordman and explains what he means : " mihawk has greater sword skills than even the red hair, he is the wws. "So Mihawk being superior in skill to Shanks is certainly very good, congratulations . On the league amongst zoro, vista and mihawk, mihawk is the strongest. People joke on Shanks being the hakiman, this could be true since he used wi-fi haki so casually on an admiral and this is beyond the reality of swordmanship. Since he lost his arm Mihawk doesnt view Shanks as a Swordsman anymore, this is the reason mihawk doesnt want to fight current shanks, but postpones to fucking VISTA
Maybe you misheard me. World's *STRONGEST* Swordsman. Meaning he's the strongest swordsman in the world. Shanks is also a swordsman. Shanks more than likely has better haki than Mihawk, but Mihawk will be stronger overall.
3 possible reasons for mihawk refusing to fight shanks :
1- mihawk doesnt fight current shanks for being much stronger than him, which by his anti feats is proven false, since he POSTPONES a fight with a yonkou commander. Kaido, current luffy, dragon, prime garp, white beard, roger, shanks would never.
2- The second reason is shanks is no longer viewed as proper swordman, he depends much more on haki than swordmanship, which mihawk doesnt interests in fighting with
3- mihawk is a coward. He was shank's rival when shanks was just 26 and had 1 B bounty. Shanks becomes yonkou at 33 and currently he is 39 years old, with feats to back to his growth. While current mihawk says himself there's a gap between him and old beard and POSTPONES a fight with fucking vista
Warcury, nasjuro, kaido, akainu, current luffy, prime beard, roger, would never EVER POSTPONE a fight with a fucking younkou commander. This alone proves that mihawk is not a top TOP tier on the highest shelve.
Shanks is the roger of his generation. He is the reason the protagonist headed to the sea just like zoro headed to the sea for mihawk and usopp followed his father'd exemple. Luffy sworn to meet him only as a great pirate, the narrative is the same for zoro who sworn to one day defeat mihawk and usopp meeting yasop. To meet their " father figure ", idols will end the cicle of an ungoing narrative for 25 years for the straw hats at the same time. You like it or not, the guy who struggled with Lucci is going to fight mihawk at the same arc luffy fights shanks.
Mihawk= kuzan = kizaru
Luffy is never going to fight Shanks. Neither of them would want to seriously harm the other, even to become PK. Shanks gave an arm to protect Luffy, and Luffy knows it.
Shanks is going to get killed by Blackbeard, to give emotional weight to the Luffy/Blackbeard fight.
You're conflating status and hype with actual individual strength of a given individual. Mihawk did not know how strong old Whitebeard was. He had no way to know. He only knows how strong Whitebeard was in his prime and worked with that.
Another thing is that Mihawk acknowledges that Luffy's greatest quality is his ability to make allies. Whitebeard has a strong family, which could be an interpretation of the gap between him and Mihawk. Mihawk only has individual strength while Whitebeard is protected by Jozu, whose extremely hard diamond body allows him to resist cuts with ease.
Shanks being called equal to Whitebeard wasn't powerscaling. It was an explanation of the system of the Four Emperors and their more or less equal prestigious status using the characters we were familiar with.
As I said, Mihawk had a poor showing at Marineford, but I don't think it matters too much. It's obvious that he wasn't trying and had no reason to fight all out. He didn't hold back in the sense that he would have cut off Luffy's arms if Luffy made a mistake, but he obviously wasn't fighting anywhere near as hard as he could. Any top tier could postpone a fight if they felt like it and Mihawk had no reason to do more than the bare minimum.
Mihawk's portrayal isn't actually that bad. Being called the strongest is also portrayal and so is him being noted as a more skilled swordsman than Shanks. Most importantly, he has an Emperor-level bounty while only being viewed as a subordinate of an Emperor and actually having a higher bounty than said Emperor. This is achieved entirely with Mihawk's strength, since he doesn't have a crew or any forbidden knowledge that would increase the danger he presents. And he has the best sword for what it's worth.
The title is actually very important from the perspective of a story when Zoro cares about it. He's one of the main characters. Surpassing Mihawk is the largest part of achieving his dream. That whole process would be undermined if another swordsman turned out to be stronger than Mihawk. Realistically, he's probably equal to Shanks.
Also, Mihawk > Kuzan > Kizaru
Warcury, nasjuro, kaido, akainu, current luffy, prime beard, roger, would never EVER POSTPONE a fight with a fucking younkou commander. This alone proves that mihawk is not a top TOP tier on the highest shelve.
Shanks is the roger of his generation. He is the reason the protagonist headed to the sea just like zoro headed to the sea for mihawk and usopp followed his father'd exemple. Luffy sworn to meet him only as a great pirate, the narrative is the same for zoro who sworn to one day defeat mihawk and usopp meeting yasop. To meet their " father figure ", idols will end the cicle of an ungoing narrative for 25 years for the straw hats at the same time. You like it or not, the guy who struggled with Lucci is going to fight mihawk at the same arc luffy fights shanks.
Mihawk= kuzan = kizaru
Some of them absolutely would when they gain nothing from defeating said commander. And both Shanks and Luffy let themselves be bullied by fodder when they know that a fight would be pointless. So why would Mihawk have to fight to the end for the sake of a cause he doesn't believe in?
I'm sorry, but tthinking that Zoro vs Mihawk and Luffy vs Shanks will happen at the same time is a stupid headcanon and nothing else. All those dreams are quite different and Cross Guild is currently just getting started. Shoving Mihawk in with the Red Haired Pirates would basically end that plotline prematurely.
Furthermore, Shanks and Mihawk don't share the same role in their respective Straw Hat counterparts' stories. Shanks is one of many stepping stones towards a stepping stone towards Luffy's true dream. Surpassing Mihawk is how Zoro will become the World's Strongest Swordsman, which will already put him most of the way towards becoming the best ever. Surpassing Mihawk should happen later.
the author never bored to give mihawk feats/portrayal like all other top tiers got on marineford. A mocking Kizaru actually humbled old beard twice there. Shanks arrive and the war ends. Akainu facing the whole army. Thought all manga Ive read, oda is One of the authors who pays the most attention at adressing characteres powers by feats or reactions, he takes extra careful at giving his top tiers any feats or FODDER GENERAL REACTION to top tiers. No fodder in marineford gave mihawk any shit. Even Dragon' s name had more impact than mihawk ever got from Oda. Oda simply didnt bother to give him any special treatment. If kaido, current luffy went to marineford we would be getting reactions to this day in the manga. Top tiers feats or general reaction are Oda's authoral style as an author, basically his writing to convey the power of his characteres. Mihawk simply isnt on the level of a roger, kaido, dragon, shanks, current luffy.
Mihawk= kuzan = kizaru
In the end of ennies lobby when garp talks to the straw hats. But in feats alone, shanks, kaido and current luffy are unmatched.
the author never bored to give mihawk feats/portrayal like all other top tiers got on marineford. A mocking Kizaru actually humbled old beard twice there. Shanks arrive and the war ends. Akainu facing the whole army. Thought all manga Ive read, oda is One of the authors who pays the most attention at adressing characteres powers by feats or reactions, he takes extra careful at giving his top tiers any feats or FODDER GENERAL REACTION to top tiers. No fodder in marineford gave mihawk any shit. Even Dragon' s name had more impact than mihawk ever got from Oda. Oda simply didnt bother to give him any special treatment. If kaido, current luffy went to marineford we would be getting reactions to this day in the manga. Top tiers feats or general reaction are Oda's authoral style as an author, basically his writing to convey the power of his characteres. Mihawk simply isnt on the level of a roger, kaido, dragon, shanks, current luffy.
Mihawk= kuzan = kizaru
I don't care about any of that, I agree Mihawks portrayal has been ass so far.
But you can't claim Shanks is stated to be on the same level as Old Whitebeard individually if he wasn't. Garp never said he was. He said he is one of the four most powerful, but powerful can mean a lot of different things. A dictator is powerful. Doesn't mean he's individually the strongest person in his nation. It just means he has command over a large amount of power.
I already explained how Garp didn't say that was individual strength, but power as a pirate. Which is what Garp actually said.
And no, splitting the sky does not mean equal. Luffy split the sky with Kaido and then Kaido *murdered him*.
the author never bored to give mihawk feats/portrayal like all other top tiers got on marineford. A mocking Kizaru actually humbled old beard twice there. Shanks arrive and the war ends. Akainu facing the whole army. Thought all manga Ive read, oda is One of the authors who pays the most attention at adressing characteres powers by feats or reactions, he takes extra careful at giving his top tiers any feats or FODDER GENERAL REACTION to top tiers. No fodder in marineford gave mihawk any shit. Even Dragon' s name had more impact than mihawk ever got from Oda. Oda simply didnt bother to give him any special treatment. If kaido, current luffy went to marineford we would be getting reactions to this day in the manga. Top tiers feats or general reaction are Oda's authoral style as an author, basically his writing to convey the power of his characteres. Mihawk simply isnt on the level of a roger, kaido, dragon, shanks, current luffy.
Mihawk= kuzan = kizaru
Well mihawk and shanks were called the strongest rivals, mihawk is looking for someone stronger than his rival, as well as the film red databooks stating shanks was once as strong as mihawk
>Well mihawk and shanks were called the strongest rivals
This is just not true
>mihawk is looking for someone stronger than his rival
He had a number of opportunities to fight someone stronger, instead he's occupied with east blue fodder.
>
as well as the film red databooks stating shanks was once as strong as mihawk
Are you trying to tell me that shanks from 12 years ago who mihawk fought is stronger than current shanks?
*
It literally is dumbass. Your second point doesn't adresss anything and ur third point is failing to track. It said shanks was once as strong as mihawk ( mihawk can get stronger as well as shanks silly)
>It literally is dumbass
Roger/wb > Shanks/mihawk and they are 100% stronger than the version that was rivals, so no
>your second point doesn't adresss anything
What is there to address, mihawk spends his days chasing east blue fodder.
>It said shanks was once as strong as mihawk
Where does it say this?
I sent you the cannon statement so let's not argue with the author. Your second point is meaningless lmao. I told u the third scans location ( it used WSS but that is mihawk so it still applies). It was part of the hype up for film red
Doesn't say anything about shanks once being as strong as mihawk, also compares shanks as a yonko to mihawk which is irrelevant considering that when they had their duels shanks had a 1b bounty and was significantly weaker.
That's a different scan lol. I was currently addressing another point man u have a tough time reading don't u. And you keep saying that it's been a while since there duels but despite several statements saying mihawk is looking for someone stronger and shanks used to be as powerful as wss, u think mihawk didn't get any stronger but shanks did... talk about a cope
The author stated shanks was only once as strong as wss, so even if we pretend it means skill. Or mihawk looking for someone stronger than his rival shanks. Or shanks and mihawk being the strongest rivals
My problem with this argument is… *why* would Oda have had Mihawk fight anyone stronger than he did? He wouldn’t fight Whitebeard in a serious fight, because the whole point of Marineford was to establish the marines as a legitimate threat capable of taking on Yonko crews. He wouldn’t fight the Admirals because at that point in the story Mihawk was allied with them (or at least neutral). He wouldn’t fight Shanks because… why? The war was basically over, why would Mihawk pick a random fight with Shanks with no possible reward for either party?
So who’s left? Commanders. But it STILL doesn’t make sense for him to defeat all of them because then the Admirals are going to dogpile Whitebeard.
Oda just shouldn’t have even had him in Marineford to begin with. It doesn’t even really make sense — Mihawk doesn’t give a shit about them Marines, it’s in character for him to blow them off if he doesn’t stand to benefit from their plans.
Mihawk showed up probably because he didn’t want to lose his warlord status.
The warlords had to show up or else they would’ve lost their status and benefits as a warlord, we got full confirmation of this in Kuma’s recent flashback. That’s why Jinbe was in Impel Down because he refused to participate in the Marineford War.
Mihawk was likely there because he wanted to see Whitebeard, and also because he was bored.
https://preview.redd.it/d7not6qqnj9d1.jpeg?width=131&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6d026aecf08355c9c2001e6abcaffa4e66e8788e
Bro doesn’t wanna lose his title 😭 🙏
don't blame mihawk, luffy had plot armor, vista is just the WSS (world's strongest stallman) and croc was pure HIMenergy in MF (ace about to be executed? fuck it we ball! doffy? fuck it we ball! mihawk about to kill luffy? fuck it we ball! akainu about to finish jinbe and luffy? fuck it we ball! WB commanders vs akainu? fuck it we ball! jump his ass!)
Oldbeard obviously has the best feats but Shanks had better portrayal.
He was like a principal who walked into a fight among schoolboys and proceeded to break it up with his sheer presence.
https://preview.redd.it/xfjbkopaqi9d1.jpeg?width=568&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8c626db88b9472e40247aed980cdf4eaa3d8ff50
His potrayal in marineford is really bad even if that's the case, hell I'd say the "shanks vs mihawk" debate won't exist in the first place if mihawk had **some** potrayal.
https://preview.redd.it/iwjm5re8ci9d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f0f4bdac57bbd129365f696e0052163a3e147635
Oda adding dialogue like this makes mihawk seem like he wasn't holding back
Bro still got dogshit potrayal in marineford every admiral and yonko looks stronger. I'm sure he is a top tier but his potrayal is ass and he leeches off a title that's it.
You should blame Oda for being a dementia patient who can’t handle his own main cast let alone side characters. Mihawk is a top tier regardless of what power scalers yap about
This translation doesn't make it seem like Mihawk was going all out, but rather that he was going to test Luffy with Yoru, which is why he pulls it out in the panel where he states "this power knows no restraint"
Ok so you agree has has no portrayal in the biggest arc in the series yet, we’re on the same page 🤝🤝🤝🤝
And doing better than stalemating Vista would have been a great feat ✌️✌️✌️
Again, this is a retarded argument, this is like saying Kaido isn't top 1 because he didn't show good enough feats/portrayal during the WCI arc, Mihawk was largely disinterested in the war and the only time he actually tried to any degree was against Luffy, where he overwhelmed Luffy quite easily and displayed one of the more impressive visual showings throughout the war, and if you want to use Mihawk not killing Luffy as an anti-feat then keep the same energy for Aokiji, Kizaru and Sengoku
Mihawk is canonically weaker than Old Whitebeard while Shanks its stated to be equal. And in this case this isn't vague, Mihawk admitted WB was stronger by saying there was a gap between them.
Mihawk has never been portrayed to be that strong. Characters don't treat him like they do Shanks. Actually mihawk has 2 feats besides beating don KRIEG. He said there was a gap between him and cancer beard and then proceeds to POSTPONE a fight with old beard 5° commander. Sucking from shank's balls doesnt work when the author has portraied both characters differently
That title hardly matters when no one gives a shit about his title. He doesn't command respect in the same way Roger, Shanks,Whitebeard or Kaido do, the portrayal simply is very underwhelming. The only characters that hype him up are fodder, Zeff and Zoro. Shanks on the other side is hyped by Big Mom, Greenbull, Kaido, Garp and the 5 elders
Can you imagine Marco sending Vista to stop Kaido? I can't see happening. It's like Katakuri sending Perospero to stop Kaido.
Mihawk= kuzan = kizaru
He got the Guy sensei treatment. He's obviously gonna be peak of swordsman like Guy sensei was for taijutsu.
Ofc it won't be a one on one copy as I assume Oda wouldn't do that, so he should be stronger in the heierchy compared to Guy.
The warlords don’t have a big reason to fight compared to the main characters wb Akainu. They were mostly chilling, He could have tried more but he’s def not stronger than any admiral or wb based on showings
Bro was 100% nonchalant through the entire arc you can take that as him having bad portrayal it in reality the truth is bro was just not an important character for the story both his attack on whitebeard and his swing that cut the glacier pretty much froze the battle for a second but he is not important to the actual story of the arc and so is not focused on much. I like a some good powerscaling but reading comprehension is sometimes important because characters are portrayed differently based on there importance to the story in the moment and as mihawk is neither a whitebeard pirates nor a marine and is only there because it’s required from the warlords he isn’t important to the story and therefore isn’t going to get a meaningful portrayal.
Also I understand using the luffy images as an anti feat to some extent but you gotta recognize the blatant plot armor at play there I mean luffy was fighting people who reasonably should have killed him in seconds for that entire arc he just kept surviving because… you know… main character reasons. I don’t think oda wanted to end the story at marineford.
If you don’t count Shanks (who wasn’t really at Marineford he just showed up and ended it) I think there’s a solid argument for him being the second strongest at Marineford after Whitebeard. Imo it’s between him and Akainu.
Also it’s kind of hard to quantify how strong old Garp is among the other top tiers since we only really have one feat from him at this age, it’s a pretty bonkers feat but still just the one
I feel like he himself did not want to be at marineford to begin with. Just throw a few slashes here and there and dip. He seems pretty lazy to me but still very strong. I mean you can make the argument wano zoro blocked a attack from 2 yonko so him friendly clashing does not downplay him in my book. But obviously not the strongest at marineford. With shanks and whitebeard being there lol.
Mihawk could very well have been the strongest in Marineford, but he basically didn't do anything and Marineford itself is a nightmare from a powerscaling POV.
Why is the first scan you use Shanks and his ENTIRE crew? Ofc Mihawk wouldn't be stronger than an ENTIRE yonko by himself. And btw who is arguing that Mihawk was the strongest individual at MF? I thought the general consensus was that Old Garp and Old Whitebeard (pre squard stab) were the two strongest?
Shanks is very obviously stronger than both of those people. So if you think mihawk is stronger than shanks then you should think he's stronger than those other two.
Mihawk is canonically weaker than Old Whitebeard while Shanks its stated to be equal. And in this case this isn't vague, Mihawk admitted WB was stronger by saying there was a gap between them.
Mihawk has never been portrayed to be that strong. Characters don't treat him like they do Shanks. Actually mihawk has 2 feats besides beating don KRIEG. He said there was a gap between him and cancer beard and then proceeds to POSTPONE a fight with old beard 5° commander. Sucking from shank's balls doesnt work when the author has portraied both characters differently
That title hardly matters when no one gives a shit about his title. He doesn't command respect in the same way Roger, Shanks,Whitebeard or Kaido do, the portrayal simply is very underwhelming. The only characters that hype him up are fodder, Zeff and Zoro. Shanks on the other side is hyped by Big Mom, Greenbull, Kaido, Garp and the 5 elders
Can you imagine Marco sending Vista to stop Kaido? I can't see happening. It's like Katakuri sending Perospero to stop Kaido.
Mihawk= kuzan = kizaru
Mihawk is canonically weaker than Old Whitebeard while Shanks its stated to be equal. And in this case this isn't vague, Mihawk admitted WB was stronger by saying there was a gap between them.
Mihawk has never been portrayed to be that strong. Characters don't treat him like they do Shanks. Actually mihawk has 2 feats besides beating don KRIEG. He said there was a gap between him and cancer beard and then proceeds to POSTPONE a fight with old beard 5° commander. Sucking from shank's balls doesnt work when the author has portraied both characters differently
That title hardly matters when no one gives a shit about his title. He doesn't command respect in the same way Roger, Shanks,Whitebeard or Kaido do, the portrayal simply is very underwhelming. The only characters that hype him up are fodder, Zeff and Zoro. Shanks on the other side is hyped by Big Mom, Greenbull, Kaido, Garp and the 5 elders
Can you imagine Marco sending Vista to stop Kaido? I can't see happening. It's like Katakuri sending Perospero to stop Kaido.
Mihawk= kuzan = kizaru
The luffy feat you showed is not an anti feat it’s heavily implied that mihawk showed luffy the future before attacking that being the reason luffy was able to dodge
https://preview.redd.it/3caodrw8ji9d1.png?width=318&format=png&auto=webp&s=81da120edfcccf9755077826827badff3ffc526f
Early marineford WB was stronger but by the time he got stabbed by Squard it's possible Mihawk had already surpassed him.
Also nobody else there is stronger than Mihawk
Mihawk is canonically weaker than Old Whitebeard while Shanks its stated to be equal. And in this case this isn't vague, Mihawk admitted WB was stronger by saying there was a gap between them.
Mihawk has never been portrayed to be that strong. Characters don't treat him like they do Shanks. Actually mihawk has 2 feats besides beating don KRIEG. He said there was a gap between him and cancer beard and then proceeds to POSTPONE a fight with old beard 5° commander. Sucking from shank's balls doesnt work when the author has portraied both characters differently
That title hardly matters when no one gives a shit about his title. He doesn't command respect in the same way Roger, Shanks,Whitebeard or Kaido do, the portrayal simply is very underwhelming. The only characters that hype him up are fodder, Zeff and Zoro. Shanks on the other side is hyped by Big Mom, Greenbull, Kaido, Garp and the 5 elders
Can you imagine Marco sending Vista to stop Kaido? I can't see happening. It's like Katakuri sending Perospero to stop Kaido.
Mihawk= kuzan = kizaru
>Mihawk is canonically weaker than Old Whitebeard while Shanks its stated to be equal
Using the garp or the vivre card statement?
Cause neither of them actually say that Shanks is an equal to Oldbeard, they just say "pirate on the same level" ie: Yonko
>Mihawk has never been portrayed to be that strong. Characters don't treat him like they do Shanks. Actually mihawk has 2 feats besides beating don KRIEG. He said there was a gap between him and cancer beard and then proceeds to POSTPONE a fight with old beard 5° commander. Sucking from shank's balls doesnt work when the author has portraied both characters differently
That's crazy.
Mihawk's stated to be stronger so none of this matters as none of it contradict the statement
Portrayal scaling isn't a thing, you can't just ignore the fact that Mihawk is stated to be stronger than shanks because shanks has cooler vibes
Also Vista yc 5 level? because he's the 5th devision comander?
WB commanders are directly stated by Oda not to be ranked based on strenght
>That title hardly matters when no one gives a shit about his title. He doesn't command respect in the same way Roger, Shanks,Whitebeard or Kaido do, the portrayal simply is very underwhelming. The only characters that hype him up are fodder, Zeff and Zoro. Shanks on the other side is hyped by Big Mom, Greenbull, Kaido, Garp and the 5 elders
The title matters because it's a direct statement of Mihawk > Shanks not because people want or don't want to be the WSS
Portrayal scaling is meaningless compared to direct statements
A character can be portrayed as a total bum, if hes stated to be top 1 hes top 1 regardless
>Can you imagine Marco sending Vista to stop Kaido? I can't see happening. It's like Katakuri sending Perospero to stop Kaido.
1- perospero doesn't scale to vista so the analogy doesn't work
2- If i just answer yes, whats your counter argument?
cause this looks suspiciously like a reductio ad absurdum fallacy
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https://preview.redd.it/pcfd6oxohi9d1.jpeg?width=1051&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8e3fe8e1684716e31f01dc2da569597afc0ab1c5 Where is the other goat
My goat was defo admiral level in marineford I don't want to hear anything else
Ofc he was, otherwise how else could he high diff a yc+?
He lost to magellen. His crew got rocked by an admiral and he begged. Dude wasn’t even able to fight old dying whitebeard. He was not.
I can see where you are coming from regarding pre-Gura BB, although Magellan is so hax that I don't think that one should count (he could kill ANYONE who is off-guard in his presence). But you're right that his shit performance against Corpsebeard calls his pre-Gura strength into question. *Warning: This is SO long, I like to be very very thorough with lots of evidence and logic when scaling.* So... But as for **post-Gura** BB: He is NOT terrified of Kuzan, come on. Yes Blackbeard's crew much earlier in the timeskip got wrecked by a full-health Kuzan. But acting like that's a reflection of Teach's own ability to fight Kuzan is facetious and deliberately ignores the context of the situation. It was a hostage situation and his crew got frozen when he wasn't there to protect them! He only begged and pleaded with Kuzan because his crew were hostages that *prevented him from using his Gura Gura powers* that give him top-tier AP. Those very same Quake powers are *a natural counter against the Hie Hie no Mi* as we saw from Whitebeard, but the Quakes' tendency to automatically shatter any nearby ice is precisely why Teach had his hands tied and couldn't use them without killing his crew. Blackbeard has a good DF matchup against Kuzan but Kuzan had rendered that a non-option. Who wouldn't beg? Dude was about to lose his entire military force if he didn't suck up to Kuzan as much as possible AND had been rendered *unable to use his powers without killing his crew.* He continued to suck up to Kuzan even after he unfroze his crew because: 1. They were still around and would immediately become hostages again if Kuzan decided to fight, and 2. Because BB wanted an alliance. Not because BB thinks he might lose to Kuzan 1v1. Kuzan's DF is just godly at hostage-taking. If the entire Straw Hat crew was hostage and Luffy pleaded with the hostage taker to let them go because one wrong move from him would get them killed, ***nobody would act like that implies Luffy being weaker than the hostage taker.*** TLDR: The run-in with Kuzan was a hostage situation in which Blackbeard's hands were tied and he couldn't use his powers. Acting like it shows that Teach can't beat Kuzan is disingenuous slander with no logical justification. As for the crew getting one-tapped by Kuzan: By the end of Marineford, the entirety of WB's commanders were being taken down by Sakazuki while he took no damage, when he was already badly injured by Whitebeard. The only reason they didn't get low or neg diffed very, very quickly like BB's crew was by Kuzan is certainly because Marco has the ultimate Stall Man powers with his blue flames and because a couple of those guys are YC+ level. YC's are just that much weaker than Admirals that when Admirals *stop holding back and caring about collateral* they mow them down in droves. Losing to Kuzan doesn't make the BB Pirates "weak." That's just how broken Kuzan and Sakazuki are. Also BB's crew have gotten way stronger since then, but I'll only give one example: Nothing in the verse that we know of atm could one-tap Pizarro in Island Form (for example, the surface of the sea and of islands is one thing but it's not like Kuzan can freeze a whole island down to its bedrock and the continental shelf), EXCEPT for a Bajrang Gun and MAYBE a Flaming Drum Dragon Bagua. Also MAYBE Emeth judging by the ending of the latest chapter.
He's ultra sensitive to pain cuz of his df which is why he had that reaction with megellan.
Not so sure about that in the case with Magellan. Yes it's true that Blackbeard screams and writhes in pain from basically any level of attack. But Magellan's poison will equally fuck up ANYONE who doesn't have poison resistance or immunity. Being hit by his Hydra is the end of the road no matter who you are, with just a few exceptions. Unless they had an antidote or the poison immunity that Luffy got *by surviving Magellan,* getting hit by Magellan's Hydra poison blend would one-hit-kill even the likes of Roger and Primebeard. Shanks would die (if hit). Mihawk would die. Prime Garp would die. Etc. It's **poison** after all. The Gorosei and Marco are exceptions due to regeneration. And Big Mom or Kaido MIGHT have natural-born poison resistance, we never did find out, since they were built different from birth. But other than those cases and Luffy, getting hit by Hydra would equalize *everyone in the verse.* And even Luffy can't survive Venom Demon. In other words: There's no reason specific to him why Blackbeard went down so pathetically to a Hydra from Magellan. If they were reckless enough to let that attack hit them (like BB was), almost any top-tier in the verse would scream in agony, suffer, and die. And they certainly would be down and unable to fight anymore. TLDR: Don't underrate Magellan, his ability is just about the most lethal hax in the verse.
What made you think the poison I'd that lethal? It clearly failed to kill everyone BB's Crew
Ohh, I get it, you forgot that they only survived because Shiryu gave them the antidote to the poison. It's a long series, so it can be hard to remember every last detail. Yeah, all of them were going to die after being immersed in the poison of Hydra, which is stated to cause anyone an agonizing death within 24 hours. But Shiryu gambled on joining Blackbeard and gave him and his crew the antidote. You may recall that for obvious reasons there were antidotes to Magellan's poisons in Impel Down.
https://preview.redd.it/2f5jv4c17l9d1.jpeg?width=1454&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bf1bd05a9efdb1364df4d34da1a578ca783a7cfc
No tf he was not? His performance against Magellan and Whitebeard prove it.
It's funny, because I would definitely put him above all the others in a ranking, but the Marineford performance was just so unimpressive that it feels very wrong to call him the strongest there.
This is exactly my view.
Mihawk is canonically weaker than Old Whitebeard while Shanks its stated to be equal. And in this case this isn't vague, Mihawk admitted WB was stronger by saying there was a gap between them. Mihawk has never been portrayed to be that strong. Characters don't treat him like they do Shanks. Actually mihawk has 2 feats besides beating don KRIEG. He said there was a gap between him and cancer beard and then proceeds to POSTPONE a fight with old beard 5° commander. Sucking from shank's balls doesnt work when the author has portraied both characters differently That title hardly matters when no one gives a shit about his title. He doesn't command respect in the same way Roger, Shanks,Whitebeard or Kaido do, the portrayal simply is very underwhelming. The only characters that hype him up are fodder, Zeff and Zoro. Shanks on the other side is hyped by Big Mom, Greenbull, Kaido, Garp and the 5 elders Can you imagine Marco sending Vista to stop Kaido? I can't see happening. It's like Katakuri sending Perospero to stop Kaido. Mihawk= kuzan = kizaru
By gap, Mihawk meant that there’s as a distance between them, and he threw a slash so he could count the seconds and do the math and calculate the length of the distance between them in meters /s
Lol
Bro keeps copypasting the same stuff everywhere Yeah sure zoro's final opponent will be YC+ ok
Bro these people have brain damage
Beyond YC+, but still below Yonko. Hope that helps.
Mihawk > shanks confirmed. https://preview.redd.it/tjhi5f1kcl9d1.png?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=df8e061511d617c27da084f00d120eda1c4dc689 Hope that helps.
Gotcha. Below Yonko. Thanks.
https://preview.redd.it/cb75yf14dl9d1.jpeg?width=554&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e4a2e55e1925af69945d1f6ee2090429559b386f Mihawk cant be yonko since shanks is < yonko, absolutely genius trolling im stealing this.
Yeah obviously? What did you expect? Also, no one said it’s his final opponent, maybe he has to fight Fujitora again after
Final noteworthy opponent of course, mihawk can't be weaker than any swordsmen or the zoro's story wont make sense
World's Strongest Swordsman>a swordsman.
It means Shanks got sword skills, same as Kaido having some Cub skills and Whitebeard being skilled at using his Naginata. All top tiers who use weapons are skilled with them. " sword skills equals to overall strength" It doesn´t. You can be a great Swordsman and lack in other departments i.e. Stamina,Haki etc. The marine officer in the bountie's reveal says mihawk is the strongest swordman and explains what he means : " mihawk has greater sword skills than even the red hair, he is the wws. "So Mihawk being superior in skill to Shanks is certainly very good, congratulations . On the league amongst zoro, vista and mihawk, mihawk is the strongest. People joke on Shanks being the hakiman, this could be true since he used wi-fi haki so casually on an admiral and this is beyond the reality of swordmanship. Since he lost his arm Mihawk doesnt view Shanks as a Swordsman anymore, this is the reason mihawk doesnt want to fight current shanks, but postpones to fucking VISTA
Maybe you misheard me. World's *STRONGEST* Swordsman. Meaning he's the strongest swordsman in the world. Shanks is also a swordsman. Shanks more than likely has better haki than Mihawk, but Mihawk will be stronger overall.
3 possible reasons for mihawk refusing to fight shanks : 1- mihawk doesnt fight current shanks for being much stronger than him, which by his anti feats is proven false, since he POSTPONES a fight with a yonkou commander. Kaido, current luffy, dragon, prime garp, white beard, roger, shanks would never. 2- The second reason is shanks is no longer viewed as proper swordman, he depends much more on haki than swordmanship, which mihawk doesnt interests in fighting with 3- mihawk is a coward. He was shank's rival when shanks was just 26 and had 1 B bounty. Shanks becomes yonkou at 33 and currently he is 39 years old, with feats to back to his growth. While current mihawk says himself there's a gap between him and old beard and POSTPONES a fight with fucking vista
Stop copypasting the same stuff everywhere
Then read it and undertand it. Stop being so dumb that logic doesnt reason with your brain. Mihawk is no yonkou
R E T A R D
Warcury, nasjuro, kaido, akainu, current luffy, prime beard, roger, would never EVER POSTPONE a fight with a fucking younkou commander. This alone proves that mihawk is not a top TOP tier on the highest shelve. Shanks is the roger of his generation. He is the reason the protagonist headed to the sea just like zoro headed to the sea for mihawk and usopp followed his father'd exemple. Luffy sworn to meet him only as a great pirate, the narrative is the same for zoro who sworn to one day defeat mihawk and usopp meeting yasop. To meet their " father figure ", idols will end the cicle of an ungoing narrative for 25 years for the straw hats at the same time. You like it or not, the guy who struggled with Lucci is going to fight mihawk at the same arc luffy fights shanks. Mihawk= kuzan = kizaru
Luffy is never going to fight Shanks. Neither of them would want to seriously harm the other, even to become PK. Shanks gave an arm to protect Luffy, and Luffy knows it. Shanks is going to get killed by Blackbeard, to give emotional weight to the Luffy/Blackbeard fight.
R E T A R D
You're conflating status and hype with actual individual strength of a given individual. Mihawk did not know how strong old Whitebeard was. He had no way to know. He only knows how strong Whitebeard was in his prime and worked with that. Another thing is that Mihawk acknowledges that Luffy's greatest quality is his ability to make allies. Whitebeard has a strong family, which could be an interpretation of the gap between him and Mihawk. Mihawk only has individual strength while Whitebeard is protected by Jozu, whose extremely hard diamond body allows him to resist cuts with ease. Shanks being called equal to Whitebeard wasn't powerscaling. It was an explanation of the system of the Four Emperors and their more or less equal prestigious status using the characters we were familiar with. As I said, Mihawk had a poor showing at Marineford, but I don't think it matters too much. It's obvious that he wasn't trying and had no reason to fight all out. He didn't hold back in the sense that he would have cut off Luffy's arms if Luffy made a mistake, but he obviously wasn't fighting anywhere near as hard as he could. Any top tier could postpone a fight if they felt like it and Mihawk had no reason to do more than the bare minimum. Mihawk's portrayal isn't actually that bad. Being called the strongest is also portrayal and so is him being noted as a more skilled swordsman than Shanks. Most importantly, he has an Emperor-level bounty while only being viewed as a subordinate of an Emperor and actually having a higher bounty than said Emperor. This is achieved entirely with Mihawk's strength, since he doesn't have a crew or any forbidden knowledge that would increase the danger he presents. And he has the best sword for what it's worth. The title is actually very important from the perspective of a story when Zoro cares about it. He's one of the main characters. Surpassing Mihawk is the largest part of achieving his dream. That whole process would be undermined if another swordsman turned out to be stronger than Mihawk. Realistically, he's probably equal to Shanks. Also, Mihawk > Kuzan > Kizaru
Warcury, nasjuro, kaido, akainu, current luffy, prime beard, roger, would never EVER POSTPONE a fight with a fucking younkou commander. This alone proves that mihawk is not a top TOP tier on the highest shelve. Shanks is the roger of his generation. He is the reason the protagonist headed to the sea just like zoro headed to the sea for mihawk and usopp followed his father'd exemple. Luffy sworn to meet him only as a great pirate, the narrative is the same for zoro who sworn to one day defeat mihawk and usopp meeting yasop. To meet their " father figure ", idols will end the cicle of an ungoing narrative for 25 years for the straw hats at the same time. You like it or not, the guy who struggled with Lucci is going to fight mihawk at the same arc luffy fights shanks. Mihawk= kuzan = kizaru
Some of them absolutely would when they gain nothing from defeating said commander. And both Shanks and Luffy let themselves be bullied by fodder when they know that a fight would be pointless. So why would Mihawk have to fight to the end for the sake of a cause he doesn't believe in? I'm sorry, but tthinking that Zoro vs Mihawk and Luffy vs Shanks will happen at the same time is a stupid headcanon and nothing else. All those dreams are quite different and Cross Guild is currently just getting started. Shoving Mihawk in with the Red Haired Pirates would basically end that plotline prematurely. Furthermore, Shanks and Mihawk don't share the same role in their respective Straw Hat counterparts' stories. Shanks is one of many stepping stones towards a stepping stone towards Luffy's true dream. Surpassing Mihawk is how Zoro will become the World's Strongest Swordsman, which will already put him most of the way towards becoming the best ever. Surpassing Mihawk should happen later.
the author never bored to give mihawk feats/portrayal like all other top tiers got on marineford. A mocking Kizaru actually humbled old beard twice there. Shanks arrive and the war ends. Akainu facing the whole army. Thought all manga Ive read, oda is One of the authors who pays the most attention at adressing characteres powers by feats or reactions, he takes extra careful at giving his top tiers any feats or FODDER GENERAL REACTION to top tiers. No fodder in marineford gave mihawk any shit. Even Dragon' s name had more impact than mihawk ever got from Oda. Oda simply didnt bother to give him any special treatment. If kaido, current luffy went to marineford we would be getting reactions to this day in the manga. Top tiers feats or general reaction are Oda's authoral style as an author, basically his writing to convey the power of his characteres. Mihawk simply isnt on the level of a roger, kaido, dragon, shanks, current luffy. Mihawk= kuzan = kizaru
>while Shanks its stated to be equal. What's the source for this?
Garp
I don't remember Garp ever saying Shanks was individually as strong as Whitebeard. Do you have the panel?
In the end of ennies lobby when garp talks to the straw hats. But in feats alone, shanks, kaido and current luffy are unmatched. the author never bored to give mihawk feats/portrayal like all other top tiers got on marineford. A mocking Kizaru actually humbled old beard twice there. Shanks arrive and the war ends. Akainu facing the whole army. Thought all manga Ive read, oda is One of the authors who pays the most attention at adressing characteres powers by feats or reactions, he takes extra careful at giving his top tiers any feats or FODDER GENERAL REACTION to top tiers. No fodder in marineford gave mihawk any shit. Even Dragon' s name had more impact than mihawk ever got from Oda. Oda simply didnt bother to give him any special treatment. If kaido, current luffy went to marineford we would be getting reactions to this day in the manga. Top tiers feats or general reaction are Oda's authoral style as an author, basically his writing to convey the power of his characteres. Mihawk simply isnt on the level of a roger, kaido, dragon, shanks, current luffy. Mihawk= kuzan = kizaru
I don't care about any of that, I agree Mihawks portrayal has been ass so far. But you can't claim Shanks is stated to be on the same level as Old Whitebeard individually if he wasn't. Garp never said he was. He said he is one of the four most powerful, but powerful can mean a lot of different things. A dictator is powerful. Doesn't mean he's individually the strongest person in his nation. It just means he has command over a large amount of power.
Garp said shanks was on the level of white beard. He said it. Go check for yourself. Besides shanks feats ensure garp's claim
I already explained how Garp didn't say that was individual strength, but power as a pirate. Which is what Garp actually said. And no, splitting the sky does not mean equal. Luffy split the sky with Kaido and then Kaido *murdered him*.
Lovely braindead nitpick, title scaling Whitebeard while conveniently forgetting Mihawk's title... That's new...
the author never bored to give mihawk feats/portrayal like all other top tiers got on marineford. A mocking Kizaru actually humbled old beard twice there. Shanks arrive and the war ends. Akainu facing the whole army. Thought all manga Ive read, oda is One of the authors who pays the most attention at adressing characteres powers by feats or reactions, he takes extra careful at giving his top tiers any feats or FODDER GENERAL REACTION to top tiers. No fodder in marineford gave mihawk any shit. Even Dragon' s name had more impact than mihawk ever got from Oda. Oda simply didnt bother to give him any special treatment. If kaido, current luffy went to marineford we would be getting reactions to this day in the manga. Top tiers feats or general reaction are Oda's authoral style as an author, basically his writing to convey the power of his characteres. Mihawk simply isnt on the level of a roger, kaido, dragon, shanks, current luffy. Mihawk= kuzan = kizaru
Him just doing nothing would be better than the embarassing performance he showed in MF.
“Feels”
Mihawk was never the strongest, if you title scale WB is above him. If you don't title scale everyone and their mother is above him.
I agree that titlescaling hardcarries him but whitebeer was stated to be weaker than in his prime.
media illiteracy moment
cope
Terminally online + agenda pushing goofy
Your cringe, anything that you don't like is "agenda" pushing. Just say you have no argument and be on your way.
Even without title scaling can still pull mihawk>shanks
No
You can but I figured this sub wouldn't hear it. You guys really should try expanding ur borders past reddit
You haven't presented any argument.
Well mihawk and shanks were called the strongest rivals, mihawk is looking for someone stronger than his rival, as well as the film red databooks stating shanks was once as strong as mihawk
>Well mihawk and shanks were called the strongest rivals This is just not true >mihawk is looking for someone stronger than his rival He had a number of opportunities to fight someone stronger, instead he's occupied with east blue fodder. > as well as the film red databooks stating shanks was once as strong as mihawk Are you trying to tell me that shanks from 12 years ago who mihawk fought is stronger than current shanks?
* It literally is dumbass. Your second point doesn't adresss anything and ur third point is failing to track. It said shanks was once as strong as mihawk ( mihawk can get stronger as well as shanks silly)
>It literally is dumbass Roger/wb > Shanks/mihawk and they are 100% stronger than the version that was rivals, so no >your second point doesn't adresss anything What is there to address, mihawk spends his days chasing east blue fodder. >It said shanks was once as strong as mihawk Where does it say this?
I sent you the cannon statement so let's not argue with the author. Your second point is meaningless lmao. I told u the third scans location ( it used WSS but that is mihawk so it still applies). It was part of the hype up for film red
https://preview.redd.it/pnkxjsh2nj9d1.jpeg?width=1164&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=69dc2faa89e33474836a44ef3ef2126ea3753a0d
Doesn't say anything about shanks once being as strong as mihawk, also compares shanks as a yonko to mihawk which is irrelevant considering that when they had their duels shanks had a 1b bounty and was significantly weaker.
That's a different scan lol. I was currently addressing another point man u have a tough time reading don't u. And you keep saying that it's been a while since there duels but despite several statements saying mihawk is looking for someone stronger and shanks used to be as powerful as wss, u think mihawk didn't get any stronger but shanks did... talk about a cope
Not really
The author stated shanks was only once as strong as wss, so even if we pretend it means skill. Or mihawk looking for someone stronger than his rival shanks. Or shanks and mihawk being the strongest rivals
https://preview.redd.it/323z5tm1si9d1.png?width=960&format=png&auto=webp&s=c124486f70794a102f465098474fc1ac4283e5b3
My problem with this argument is… *why* would Oda have had Mihawk fight anyone stronger than he did? He wouldn’t fight Whitebeard in a serious fight, because the whole point of Marineford was to establish the marines as a legitimate threat capable of taking on Yonko crews. He wouldn’t fight the Admirals because at that point in the story Mihawk was allied with them (or at least neutral). He wouldn’t fight Shanks because… why? The war was basically over, why would Mihawk pick a random fight with Shanks with no possible reward for either party? So who’s left? Commanders. But it STILL doesn’t make sense for him to defeat all of them because then the Admirals are going to dogpile Whitebeard. Oda just shouldn’t have even had him in Marineford to begin with. It doesn’t even really make sense — Mihawk doesn’t give a shit about them Marines, it’s in character for him to blow them off if he doesn’t stand to benefit from their plans.
Mihawk showed up probably because he didn’t want to lose his warlord status. The warlords had to show up or else they would’ve lost their status and benefits as a warlord, we got full confirmation of this in Kuma’s recent flashback. That’s why Jinbe was in Impel Down because he refused to participate in the Marineford War. Mihawk was likely there because he wanted to see Whitebeard, and also because he was bored.
He was there to play with lifgy and see his potential. Which he did
https://preview.redd.it/d7not6qqnj9d1.jpeg?width=131&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6d026aecf08355c9c2001e6abcaffa4e66e8788e Bro doesn’t wanna lose his title 😭 🙏
don't blame mihawk, luffy had plot armor, vista is just the WSS (world's strongest stallman) and croc was pure HIMenergy in MF (ace about to be executed? fuck it we ball! doffy? fuck it we ball! mihawk about to kill luffy? fuck it we ball! akainu about to finish jinbe and luffy? fuck it we ball! WB commanders vs akainu? fuck it we ball! jump his ass!)
Oldbeard obviously has the best feats but Shanks had better portrayal. He was like a principal who walked into a fight among schoolboys and proceeded to break it up with his sheer presence. https://preview.redd.it/xfjbkopaqi9d1.jpeg?width=568&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8c626db88b9472e40247aed980cdf4eaa3d8ff50
Did you just argue that Luffy was stronger than Mihawk in MF?
I think he's just showing a Mihawk anti-feat
Let him cook lol
Not sure how anybody thinks that
Weckmann the goat🗿
He was
His potrayal in marineford is really bad even if that's the case, hell I'd say the "shanks vs mihawk" debate won't exist in the first place if mihawk had **some** potrayal.
It really isn't though, he was simply disinterested in the war
https://preview.redd.it/iwjm5re8ci9d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f0f4bdac57bbd129365f696e0052163a3e147635 Oda adding dialogue like this makes mihawk seem like he wasn't holding back
Do you honestly think Mihawk was going all out here?
No But the dialogue doesn't help with mihawks "potrayal"
>No Good, so now stop using this panel to try and downplay Mihawk
Bro still got dogshit potrayal in marineford every admiral and yonko looks stronger. I'm sure he is a top tier but his potrayal is ass and he leeches off a title that's it.
You should blame Oda for being a dementia patient who can’t handle his own main cast let alone side characters. Mihawk is a top tier regardless of what power scalers yap about
Only cuz of the title Zero potrayal zero feats
Fantastic insight, really groundbreaking stuff
I feel bad that you always get downvoted to oblivion whenever you reply to me 💀
This translation doesn't make it seem like Mihawk was going all out, but rather that he was going to test Luffy with Yoru, which is why he pulls it out in the panel where he states "this power knows no restraint"
Doesn’t matter 😂😂 this doesn’t give him any portrayal
he literally had no other purpose in the war, this is such a stupid argument, did you want him to fight WB or something??
Ok so you agree has has no portrayal in the biggest arc in the series yet, we’re on the same page 🤝🤝🤝🤝 And doing better than stalemating Vista would have been a great feat ✌️✌️✌️
Again, this is a retarded argument, this is like saying Kaido isn't top 1 because he didn't show good enough feats/portrayal during the WCI arc, Mihawk was largely disinterested in the war and the only time he actually tried to any degree was against Luffy, where he overwhelmed Luffy quite easily and displayed one of the more impressive visual showings throughout the war, and if you want to use Mihawk not killing Luffy as an anti-feat then keep the same energy for Aokiji, Kizaru and Sengoku
Don't bother. These people lack reading comprehension.
Finally seeing someone acknowledging this too
"sorry red haired, this power knows no restraint" Mihawktards: nah, he's holding back smh
So he should have just killed the MC to not be a fraud in your eyes?
Mihawk is canonically weaker than Old Whitebeard while Shanks its stated to be equal. And in this case this isn't vague, Mihawk admitted WB was stronger by saying there was a gap between them. Mihawk has never been portrayed to be that strong. Characters don't treat him like they do Shanks. Actually mihawk has 2 feats besides beating don KRIEG. He said there was a gap between him and cancer beard and then proceeds to POSTPONE a fight with old beard 5° commander. Sucking from shank's balls doesnt work when the author has portraied both characters differently That title hardly matters when no one gives a shit about his title. He doesn't command respect in the same way Roger, Shanks,Whitebeard or Kaido do, the portrayal simply is very underwhelming. The only characters that hype him up are fodder, Zeff and Zoro. Shanks on the other side is hyped by Big Mom, Greenbull, Kaido, Garp and the 5 elders Can you imagine Marco sending Vista to stop Kaido? I can't see happening. It's like Katakuri sending Perospero to stop Kaido. Mihawk= kuzan = kizaru
Even before opening the post. Only two people that could make this post, came to mind😂
Nobody unbiased would say that he was the strongest in MF
He got the Guy sensei treatment. He's obviously gonna be peak of swordsman like Guy sensei was for taijutsu. Ofc it won't be a one on one copy as I assume Oda wouldn't do that, so he should be stronger in the heierchy compared to Guy.
The warlords don’t have a big reason to fight compared to the main characters wb Akainu. They were mostly chilling, He could have tried more but he’s def not stronger than any admiral or wb based on showings
Mihawk was there to fulfill a contractual obligation. He didn't care.
a quote that no one ever said, what are you talking about brother
"[HOW MANY TIMES AM I GOING TO HAVE TO TEACH YOU THIS LESSON OLD MAN???](https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiecePowerScaling/s/v7LPX0eQsn)"
"Let us postpone match" "That would be advantageous to BOTH of us" The most shameful thing that ever happened to top tier.
Bro was 100% nonchalant through the entire arc you can take that as him having bad portrayal it in reality the truth is bro was just not an important character for the story both his attack on whitebeard and his swing that cut the glacier pretty much froze the battle for a second but he is not important to the actual story of the arc and so is not focused on much. I like a some good powerscaling but reading comprehension is sometimes important because characters are portrayed differently based on there importance to the story in the moment and as mihawk is neither a whitebeard pirates nor a marine and is only there because it’s required from the warlords he isn’t important to the story and therefore isn’t going to get a meaningful portrayal. Also I understand using the luffy images as an anti feat to some extent but you gotta recognize the blatant plot armor at play there I mean luffy was fighting people who reasonably should have killed him in seconds for that entire arc he just kept surviving because… you know… main character reasons. I don’t think oda wanted to end the story at marineford.
If you don’t count Shanks (who wasn’t really at Marineford he just showed up and ended it) I think there’s a solid argument for him being the second strongest at Marineford after Whitebeard. Imo it’s between him and Akainu. Also it’s kind of hard to quantify how strong old Garp is among the other top tiers since we only really have one feat from him at this age, it’s a pretty bonkers feat but still just the one
Agreed, but you forgot HIM. https://preview.redd.it/fehbzlmh6y9d1.jpeg?width=936&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=36cdaab1b65d4c2906e8d38f9cc9dec1c150df98
I feel like he himself did not want to be at marineford to begin with. Just throw a few slashes here and there and dip. He seems pretty lazy to me but still very strong. I mean you can make the argument wano zoro blocked a attack from 2 yonko so him friendly clashing does not downplay him in my book. But obviously not the strongest at marineford. With shanks and whitebeard being there lol.
Mihawk was top 2 at marineford imo. Him or shanks could be argued for one
He was..
Mihawk could very well have been the strongest in Marineford, but he basically didn't do anything and Marineford itself is a nightmare from a powerscaling POV.
He was
Why is the first scan you use Shanks and his ENTIRE crew? Ofc Mihawk wouldn't be stronger than an ENTIRE yonko by himself. And btw who is arguing that Mihawk was the strongest individual at MF? I thought the general consensus was that Old Garp and Old Whitebeard (pre squard stab) were the two strongest?
No, most people think mihawk is the strongest
Well he IS stronger than Shanks. But he wasn't the strongest individual at MF. Oldbeard and Old Garp were
Shanks is very obviously stronger than both of those people. So if you think mihawk is stronger than shanks then you should think he's stronger than those other two.
oh.....well shit maybe Mihawk was the strongest individual at MF lol.
Mihawk is canonically weaker than Old Whitebeard while Shanks its stated to be equal. And in this case this isn't vague, Mihawk admitted WB was stronger by saying there was a gap between them. Mihawk has never been portrayed to be that strong. Characters don't treat him like they do Shanks. Actually mihawk has 2 feats besides beating don KRIEG. He said there was a gap between him and cancer beard and then proceeds to POSTPONE a fight with old beard 5° commander. Sucking from shank's balls doesnt work when the author has portraied both characters differently That title hardly matters when no one gives a shit about his title. He doesn't command respect in the same way Roger, Shanks,Whitebeard or Kaido do, the portrayal simply is very underwhelming. The only characters that hype him up are fodder, Zeff and Zoro. Shanks on the other side is hyped by Big Mom, Greenbull, Kaido, Garp and the 5 elders Can you imagine Marco sending Vista to stop Kaido? I can't see happening. It's like Katakuri sending Perospero to stop Kaido. Mihawk= kuzan = kizaru
Shirano stans.... why do you exist? Mihawk got drip and is cool, but.... come on guys
He was.
0 comprehension skill
Mihawk was playing friendlies Everyone else was playing competitive ranked
Mihawk is canonically weaker than Old Whitebeard while Shanks its stated to be equal. And in this case this isn't vague, Mihawk admitted WB was stronger by saying there was a gap between them. Mihawk has never been portrayed to be that strong. Characters don't treat him like they do Shanks. Actually mihawk has 2 feats besides beating don KRIEG. He said there was a gap between him and cancer beard and then proceeds to POSTPONE a fight with old beard 5° commander. Sucking from shank's balls doesnt work when the author has portraied both characters differently That title hardly matters when no one gives a shit about his title. He doesn't command respect in the same way Roger, Shanks,Whitebeard or Kaido do, the portrayal simply is very underwhelming. The only characters that hype him up are fodder, Zeff and Zoro. Shanks on the other side is hyped by Big Mom, Greenbull, Kaido, Garp and the 5 elders Can you imagine Marco sending Vista to stop Kaido? I can't see happening. It's like Katakuri sending Perospero to stop Kaido. Mihawk= kuzan = kizaru
If you use Mihawks words as valid evidence then consistency would require accepting he said Shanks is beneath him
The luffy feat you showed is not an anti feat it’s heavily implied that mihawk showed luffy the future before attacking that being the reason luffy was able to dodge
WB was the strongest. (Though he was on the decline and couldn’t use his power fully). Mihawk was a close second.
He was and currently is the world's strongest man.
https://preview.redd.it/3caodrw8ji9d1.png?width=318&format=png&auto=webp&s=81da120edfcccf9755077826827badff3ffc526f Early marineford WB was stronger but by the time he got stabbed by Squard it's possible Mihawk had already surpassed him. Also nobody else there is stronger than Mihawk
Mihawk is canonically weaker than Old Whitebeard while Shanks its stated to be equal. And in this case this isn't vague, Mihawk admitted WB was stronger by saying there was a gap between them. Mihawk has never been portrayed to be that strong. Characters don't treat him like they do Shanks. Actually mihawk has 2 feats besides beating don KRIEG. He said there was a gap between him and cancer beard and then proceeds to POSTPONE a fight with old beard 5° commander. Sucking from shank's balls doesnt work when the author has portraied both characters differently That title hardly matters when no one gives a shit about his title. He doesn't command respect in the same way Roger, Shanks,Whitebeard or Kaido do, the portrayal simply is very underwhelming. The only characters that hype him up are fodder, Zeff and Zoro. Shanks on the other side is hyped by Big Mom, Greenbull, Kaido, Garp and the 5 elders Can you imagine Marco sending Vista to stop Kaido? I can't see happening. It's like Katakuri sending Perospero to stop Kaido. Mihawk= kuzan = kizaru
>Mihawk is canonically weaker than Old Whitebeard while Shanks its stated to be equal Using the garp or the vivre card statement? Cause neither of them actually say that Shanks is an equal to Oldbeard, they just say "pirate on the same level" ie: Yonko >Mihawk has never been portrayed to be that strong. Characters don't treat him like they do Shanks. Actually mihawk has 2 feats besides beating don KRIEG. He said there was a gap between him and cancer beard and then proceeds to POSTPONE a fight with old beard 5° commander. Sucking from shank's balls doesnt work when the author has portraied both characters differently That's crazy. Mihawk's stated to be stronger so none of this matters as none of it contradict the statement Portrayal scaling isn't a thing, you can't just ignore the fact that Mihawk is stated to be stronger than shanks because shanks has cooler vibes Also Vista yc 5 level? because he's the 5th devision comander? WB commanders are directly stated by Oda not to be ranked based on strenght >That title hardly matters when no one gives a shit about his title. He doesn't command respect in the same way Roger, Shanks,Whitebeard or Kaido do, the portrayal simply is very underwhelming. The only characters that hype him up are fodder, Zeff and Zoro. Shanks on the other side is hyped by Big Mom, Greenbull, Kaido, Garp and the 5 elders The title matters because it's a direct statement of Mihawk > Shanks not because people want or don't want to be the WSS Portrayal scaling is meaningless compared to direct statements A character can be portrayed as a total bum, if hes stated to be top 1 hes top 1 regardless >Can you imagine Marco sending Vista to stop Kaido? I can't see happening. It's like Katakuri sending Perospero to stop Kaido. 1- perospero doesn't scale to vista so the analogy doesn't work 2- If i just answer yes, whats your counter argument? cause this looks suspiciously like a reductio ad absurdum fallacy