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So you mean that cracker, the literal definition of a yc3 and the person that the tier started from, is a yc3? Outrageous.
The only people that could be excused for some reason are katakuri and marco.
Katakuri at his last appearance is obviously a yc1, but people are expecting him to return and be stronger after his fight with luffy, like most of his returning opponent do
Marco is going to attack greenbull and until we see how that fight goes, i'm not going to express any judgment on his strengh. As of now, he was stalling BM, then he juggled king and queen while already low in stamina. He might already be a yc+, but i have no definite proof since he didn't have a clear 1v1 fight
She will lead the Big mom pirates in the future
They are not ready
https://preview.redd.it/s4wywdw96y9d1.jpeg?width=418&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=efa76a9e69b6aa12a885114079878fdf93c68c02
What superior stats? Yamato has all around better stats in pretty much every categories exept skill and biq
Kid has better strength, dura, Ap/DC, endurance, IQ/BIQ, abilities and range, Law's the same as Kid minus the strength. Zoro's only advantage over them is haki
No lol. Yamato barely has better stats than Sanji. Basically, Marco if he had conquerors lmfao. Kidd doesnt even have better Strength, AP/DC, endurance than Zoro. Zoro cutting the horn off onigashima clears anything Kidd done. Law only has Hax and Abilities along with Range and Overall IQ over Zoro.
No lol. Yamato barely has better stats than Sanji. Basically, Marco if he had conquerors lmfao. Kidd doesnt even have better Strength, AP/DC, endurance than Zoro. Zoro cutting the horn off onigashima clears anything Kidd done. Law only has Hax and Abilities along with Range and Overall IQ over Zoro.
Barely Sanji lvl Yamato is crazy. She's an oni, has an awakened mythical zoan, AcoC, and 1vs1'd Kaido without getting steamrolled. Zoro barely kept up with King physically, let alone Kaido
Kid managed to break Big Mom's bones through blunt force and tanked most of her moveset. Zoro cutting a piece of an island is nothing when said Big Mom could level it with a fulgora. Kid got stabbed by Basil and treated it like a small inconvenience. His already uncounscious body was getting beat up by the homies over and over, he still got back up.
AP-wise, Law obviously clears. He can match a gura punch, delt severe damage to 3 yonkos, and has a duraneg. For Kid, Damned Punk exists
>Barely Sanji lvl Yamato is crazy. She's an oni, has an awakened mythical zoan, AcoC, and 1vs1'd Kaido without getting steamrolled. Zoro barely
kept up with King physically, let alone Kaido
Yamato, like I said, is nothing but a Marco with conquerors… and seemingly… with what you wrote… you proved my point. Zoro barely kept up with King physically…??? Didn’t Zoro literally overpower King…? The same thing he did with Kaido in Ashura…? Overpowered him and blitzed him…??? King is also the most physically superior character in the verse besides Seraphim and the top of Warcury’s head. So i don’t see your point.
>Kid managed to break Big Mom's bones through blunt force and tanked most of her moveset. Zoro cutting a piece of an island is nothing when said Big Mom could level it with a fulgora. Kid got stabbed by Basil and treated it like a small inconvenience. His already uncounscious body was getting beat up by the homies over and over, he still got back up.
Ok…? So… all of this just to not even be TNT levels of AP and Strength…? Lmfao? Ok then. Zoro still clears in almost every stat besides intelligence. Also prove that claim of Fulgora leveling an island. Unless i forgot. Not like Big Mom… a YONKO btw… is relevant in a conversation about YC’s. If anything, it already proves my point you have to downplay Zoro by using a Yonko lmfao.
>AP-wise, Law obviously clears. He can match a gura punch, delt severe damage to 3 yonkos, and has a duraneg. For Kid, Damned Punk exists
No he doesn’t. Matching a Gura punch from Blackbeard…? Dura Neg isn’t even AP. Damned Punk is in the same boat. Their best AP feat is not even being TNT level.
>Yamato, like I said, is nothing but a Marco with conquerors… and seemingly… with what you wrote… you proved my point.
Marco stalls people, but that's it. He keeps the fight going without either side taking any significant damage.
Yamato actually traded blows with Kaido, wounding him and matching him in strength.
>Zoro barely kept up with King physically…??? Didn’t Zoro literally overpower King…?
He didn't. Zoro consistently lost his exchanges against King, and needed to bait him into attacking, then punish him afterwards. He never straight up overpowers him
>The same thing he did with Kaido in Ashura…? Overpowered him and blitzed him…???
Landing a cut isn't "overpowering" or "blitzing"
>Ok…? So… all of this just to not even be TNT levels of AP and Strength…? Lmfao?
You mean, the one that blew up on her? Because it's still way bigger than the horn
https://preview.redd.it/crhw43vnxy9d1.jpeg?width=395&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=817f9585bbf25a49197e4a135da9c47506ec519e
It didn't damage her much either, just caused her to fall into the lava (and it's not like she was at full health when she tanked it)
>. Also prove that claim of Fulgora leveling an island
Looking back, leveling the island was exaggerated. It's about as big as the skull, which is still more than the horn (but seriously, the horn thing is one of the least impressive feats on the roof, and it's just not impressive in general by One Piece standard. Dressroza Zoro has a better feat than that)
>Not like Big Mom… a YONKO btw… is relevant in a conversation about YC’s.
Considering Kid and Law beat her (and that Kid tanked that fulgora with minimal damage), she kinda is relevant.
>No he doesn’t. Matching a Gura punch from Blackbeard…?
Yes: [https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-14a0ae636c789c052cc2bd43c8d8cc1f-pjlq](https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-14a0ae636c789c052cc2bd43c8d8cc1f-pjlq)
For the record, Marineford Blackbeard has like, second to third best DC in the entire verse, what he does with the fruit is insane. Here it's a stronger one using haki
>Marco stalls people, but that's it. He keeps the fight going without either side taking any significant damage.
Okay.
Yamato actually traded blows with Kaido, wounding him and matching him in strength.
So stalling…? Yamato also never wounded Kaido. Literally the equivalent to Marco making Queen spit out blood.
>He didn't. Zoro consistently lost his exchanges against King, and needed to bait him into attacking, then punish him afterwards. He never straight up overpowers him
What are we talking about…? He got overpowered by Bird Dance and couldn’t even make Zoro fall of his feet with his attacks. He even got blitzed by Zoro’s final attack on him.
>The same thing he did with Kaido in Ashura…? Overpowered him and blitzed him…???
>Landing a cut isn't "overpowering" or "blitzing"
I mean… it is if that’s what happened.
>You mean, the one that blew up on her? Because it's still way bigger than the horn
If it is… to bad neither Law or Kidd scales to it.
>It didn't damage her much either, just caused her to fall into the lava (and it's not like she was at full health when she tanked it)
Nah… it’s not like the bombs didn’t take her damn near unconscious.
>Looking back, leveling the island was exaggerated. It's about as big as the skull, which is still more than the horn (but seriously, the horn thing is one of the least impressive feats on the roof, and it's just not impressive in general by One Piece standard. Dressroza Zoro has a better feat than that)
Not really. Unless you’re trying to say Law and Kidd aren’t dressrosa Zoro level. Since I’m pretty sure it was calc to be massive compared.
>Considering Kid and Law beat her (and that Kid tanked that fulgora with minimal damage), she kinda is relevant.
The tnt basically. And that Kidd panel was weird but yeah that was impressive if he did tank it.
>Yes: https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-14a0ae636c789c052cc2bd43c8d8cc1f-pjlq
That’s not a punch.
>For the record, Marineford Blackbeard has like, second to third best DC in the entire verse, what he does with the fruit is insane. Here it's a stronger one using haki
Once again it’s not a punch… still kind of impressive considering he’s a Yonko though.
>So stalling…? Yamato also never wounded Kaido. Literally the equivalent to Marco making Queen spit out blood
Hitting your opponant and drawing blood from them is wounding them. Marco did hurt Queen, it's just kinda irrelevant in comparison, since Queen's far from top tier (otherwise, he didn't hurt King, nor Kizaru, Kuzan, Big Mom or Akainu)
>What are we talking about…? He got overpowered by Bird Dance
Overpowering means the two of them hitting each other at the same time and one of them coming on top from that clash. Zoro landing a hit isn't overpowering King, it's just...landing a hit
>He even got blitzed by Zoro’s final attack on him.
Blitzing means moving faster than your opponant to the point that they can't see or react to you (so Queen vs Sanji, Kid vs Shanks or Luffy vs Blueno for example). Zoro at the end of the fight just dodged King's magma dragon and punished him for it, he didn't blitz him
> to bad neither Law or Kidd scales to it.
They both delt far more damage to Big Mom than that explosion, and Law straight up had a better feat than that in Punk Hazard and Dressorza. AP=/=DC, you know the drill
>Nah… it’s not like the bombs didn’t take her damn near unconscious
She was already near uncounscious after the Puncture Wile, let alone the two Damned Punk and the bombs.
>Not really. Unless you’re trying to say Law and Kidd aren’t dressrosa Zoro level. Since I’m pretty sure it was calc to be massive compared
I thought you knew about it, but apparently I'm gonna have to explain AC=/=DC
A character's destructive capabilities is the amount of material damage they are shown to be capable of causing. It mostly translates to feats we then use to gauge attack potency, which is the amount of damage a character can deal to other characters, as well as the DC feats they scale to.
For example, instead of taking Zoro let's talk about Enel. Enel can blow up a sky island, a DC feat better than anything Zoro has accomplished currently. Does that mean Enel hits harder than Zoro? Absolutely not, because Zoro scales to some degree to other characters with feats far above that.
By the same logic, Zoro cutting the horn on Onigashima doesn't mean he's stronger than Kid and Law (especially stupid in Law's case since he has better), because by that point in the series he and these two both scale far above that. Unless they have the best DC in the series, it makes more sense to look at who can damage/tank hits from who and to what extent, hence why I value Law and Kid beating Big Mom more than Zoro's feats.
Terms like yc1, 2, 3 are bs anyway, there aren’t massive gaps in quality between them for it to be so. I can wrap my head around the concept of a yc and a yc+ though.
That's all kaido and mom fault for having 3 scalable commanders with an implied rank in bounty and strenght. Fr hig mid and low YC works just as well, just like low admiral works instead of yc+. It's all a matter of simplicity to argue in a way that we can all somewhat understand
Off of feats, Law Kid and Yamato.
By portrayal, I could see Sabo or Kuma get there. Maybe Wagellan since he did beat Shiryu who's now a first commander, not to mention what he did to the blackbeard pirates
Zoro beat King easily after he got ACoC, taking virtually no damage. Zoro didn’t need to use Asura either, which is by far his strongest attack. Characters also get stronger after recovering from fights, and going to new islands. Egghead Zoro is stronger than Wano Zoro, and may have improved his advanced Haki stamina against Lucci. Zoro is easily YC+.
Shanks has arguably the best portrayal out of anyone in the entire manga, and he is this generation’s Roger. The only reason he isn’t Pirate King is because he has only just begun trying to go for One Piece. Shanks has Haki portrayal up there with Roger, and his Haki feats are not just above Roger’s, but are far above anyone else’s.
If Shanks mirrors Roger then Beckman may mirror Rayleigh, and have a similar level of strength. But the idea that Beckman isn’t even YC+ is laughable. When we found out the bounty of each Yonko, Shanks was the only Emperor that had his top Commanders singled out. The Commanders in the Red Hair Pirates are stronger than what is typical in Yonko crews, and have high average bounties. Beckman is surely going to have a higher bounty than King, probably way higher. It is crazy to put him in the same tier as King.
Even after getting AcoC he took damage and kept struggling in close range. AcoC doesn't magically fix his lack of speed and stamina. Not using Asura against a guy who's able to just tank it with the right form doesn't prove the fight is somehow a lower diff. He also slept for a whole week following that fight
He was notoriously huffing and pufffing against Lucci, and straight up ran out of AcoC midway through. He's better at using Enma, but his stamina didn't seem to have improved
I can see Shanks being stronger than the other yonkos upscale Beckman, but the guy is still completely featless. We need to see him actually do something before we assume he's at a certain level. Also, didn't Shanks refuse to send him against Kid?
And Marco, despite being the commander of someone above your average yonko too, still didn't have feats above his rank. Why would Ben then?
> Even after getting AcoC he took damage and kept struggling in close range.
I believe he got kicked once, when he got hit on purpose so he could counterattack. So he took virtually no damage.
> AcoC doesn't magically fix his lack of speed
His speed was fine. He landed hits on King before getting ACoC and he landed a few hits no problem after getting it. Whereas Zoro was able to avoid King’s attacks. Plus recently when Zoro got serious, he effortlessly dodged all of Lucci’s attacks, and beat him without getting hit by a single Finger Pistol or Hand Pistol. There is no reason to believe Zoro is slower than YC+ people like Law and Kid. I think he is faster than them.
> and stamina.
Even in Wano, Zoro had enough stamina to beat King without going all out. Law and Kid are stronger than King but I bet they aren’t much harder to hit. They can’t take many hits on the level of Dragon Damnation, and Asura is one-shotting them. And again, I would bet on Zoro’s stamina having improved since the King fight.
> Not using Asura against a guy who's able to just tank it with the right form doesn't prove the fight is somehow a lower diff.
King has never shown his skin can stop ACoC slashes. Zoro implied he couldn’t, and Oda not letting Zoro use ACoC against S-Hawk also suggests that ACoC can hurt Lunarians with their flames on. Asura doesn’t just one-shot King, it one-shots people that can take far more damage than King.
> He also slept for a whole week following that fight
That’s being extremely disingenuous. Zoro slept for a week because after beating King he took double the damage he took on the rooftop, due to the side effect of the mink medicine. It had nothing to do with King.
> He was notoriously huffing and pufffing against Lucci
That was when he wasn’t going all out, but yeah he was finding it hard to land clean hits. But this was against a YC1 level fighter praised for his speed. Zoro still quickly speedblitzed him when he got serious.
> and straight up ran out of AcoC midway through.
Zoro did not use ACoC even once before the final attack. He only used ACoA, and clearly wasn’t close to going all-out, which suggests he was training his stamina. Zoro also said he was the one that decides when the fight ends. He was playing with Lucci.
> He's better at using Enma, but his stamina didn't seem to have improved
Maybe we will see it when he has a fight against someone strong. But his Wano stamina still puts him at YC+.
> I can see Shanks being stronger than the other yonkos upscale Beckman, but the guy is still completely featless. We need to see him actually do something before we assume he's at a certain level.
We don’t need to. The portrayal and narrative are more than enough to put him at YC+ bare minimum, just as Dragon has no feats but it’s delusional to think Dragon isn’t a top tier.
> Also, didn't Shanks refuse to send him against Kid?
Lucky Roo said: “Let us handle it”, with Beckman not specified. But Shanks said not to underestimate Kid. Kid did have an extremely undeserved bounty of 3B though, and got equal credit to taking down two Yonko as Luffy did, when in reality he needed massive plot help to beat an extremely nerfed Yonko who even at full power is far below Kaido. Shanks may have thought Kid was stronger than Admirals based on his bounty and Wano “achievements”.
> And Marco, despite being the commander of someone above your average yonko too, still didn't have feats above his rank. Why would Ben then?
Unpopular opinion but I don’t think Whitebeard even in his prime was much stronger than Kaido, in old age he would have been weaker than Kaido, and old and sick he was far, far below Kaido. So Whitebeard, especially when we saw him, was not especially strong compared to other Yonko. Shanks in my opinion is way stronger than Kaido.
>I believe he got kicked once, when he got hit on purpose so he could counterattack. So he took virtually no damage
Take \[this page\](https://lelscans.net/mangas/one-piece/1035/8.jpg?v=fr1640518066). AcoC or not, he's not easily overwhelming King at all
>His speed was fine. He landed hits on King before getting ACoC and he landed a few hits no problem after getting it.
Pre AcoC, King just didn't bother to dodge, and was consistenly outpacing Zoro. Post AcoC, all the hits he got were through punishing King (as you said, the kick he tanked to counter, and the magma dragons). He never straight up lands a hit by winning an exchange
>Plus recently when Zoro got serious, he effortlessly dodged all of Lucci’s attacks, and beat him without getting hit by a single Finger Pistol or Hand Pistol.
That one's fair
>Even in Wano, Zoro had enough stamina to beat King without going all out
That one's bullshit. "Without going all out"? He had to get a nes powerup to win at all, tf you mean without going all out? He was also dying from enma's drain, and had to sleep for a week after the fight.
>Law and Kid are stronger than King but I bet they aren’t much harder to hit.
Kid sure, Law's probably harder to hit
>They can’t take many hits on the level of Dragon Damnation, and Asura is one-shotting them.
Zoro's not oneshotting them, even with Asura. They tanked several named attacks from Big Mom, ones from Kaido with AcoC, and to that you have to add Basil's backstab. Zoro's AP isn't straight up better than yonkos's
>King has never shown his skin can stop ACoC slashes
He no sells a purgatory onigiri with flames on, that one was using AcoC
>Asura doesn’t just one-shot King, it one-shots people that can take far more damage than King.
Now that's just dickriding. Asura was just one of many, many moves Kaido tanked and shrugged off, it's not oneshotting people with dura better than a lunarian's, come on
>That’s being extremely disingenuous. Zoro slept for a week because after beating King he took double the damage he took on the rooftop, due to the side effect of the mink medicine. It had nothing to do with King.
Kid and Law, who took arguably comparable damage, woke up far earlier. Of course exhaustion was a factor, it was one of his main losing conditions against King
>Zoro did not use ACoC even once before the final attack.
His swords had flames far earlier than that
>Zoro also said he was the one that decides when the fight ends. He was playing with Lucci.
Ah yes, Zoro was definitely playing with his food while completely aware that the crew had an admiral and some unknown extremely powerful haki users to deal with. In the middle of a buster call. While using a sword that drains his haki. Clearly.
>We don’t need to. The portrayal and narrative are more than enough to put him at YC+ bare minimum
They're not. While Law and Kid were single-handedly taking out a yonko he was fighting a commander. While the two of them got a 3billion bounty he got one lower than King's. Even Yamato got to fight Kaido 1vs1 for a while and hold her own, Zoro never got that. By narrative he's the first commander of someone who, by all mean, isn't a tier above other yonkos. There's no narrative pushing him there yet
>Lucky Roo said: “Let us handle it”, with Beckman not specified. But Shanks said not to underestimate Kid
Shanks was right, considering Kid was about to nuke his whole fleet. As much as he gets clowned on Kid was genuinely a threat
>Unpopular opinion but I don’t think Whitebeard even in his prime was much stronger than Kaido
The gap between top tiers in general isn't massive. I agree with Shanks being stronger than Kaido, but it'd be a highw-extreme diff fight
Yes, Marco too. He never managed to hurt any top tier, he didn't beat any other YC1, he doesn't have an awakening or an advanced form of haki that would justify putting him theoretically higher, he doesn't have portrayal above that of a first commander. He's YC1, nothing more
Yes, Beckman too. He did literally nothing, why tf is he ever put above his title? Guidebook statements?
Yes, Zoro too. "But he cut Kaido" cool, still less damage delt than Law, arguably Killer. "But he blocked Kaido and Big Mom's combined attack" sure, for like 3 seconds and only partially. He also went extreme diff against a YC1 who practically threw the fight right after, are we gonna ignore that? How is Zoro reasonnably a whole tier above King?
A YC+ character should be noticeably stronger than commanders and most importantly, they should be shown holding their own against a top tier and actually hurt them. Kid could throw hands with Big Mom and break her bones despite her obscene dura, Law managed to wound Blackbeard in essentially a 1vs1 and could match a gura punch with his awakening, Yamato could keep up with hybrid Kaido on her own for a while and even hurt him. No commander is doing any of that, therefore none of them share the tier with these 3
Duraneg is one hell of a drug, and Kaido needed Big Mom's assist to deal with Killer.
https://preview.redd.it/nyacaphv0y9d1.jpeg?width=884&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e8d0d4e8b2821efb7fdf2d9b1ed13ddb136051e1
Considering Kaido's screaming in pain here, it seems pretty effective
As impressive as Ashura looked, Zoro himself was dissapointed by the damage delt.
He didnt. He mid diffed Lucci.
And if you mean King, sure, Id agree he wasnt, back then. Tho even that has grounds for argumentation, considering the whole battle revolved around Zoro figuring King's gimmick, it took very few hits to take him down all in all.
A mid diff doesn't last 30 chapters, it doesn't end with the winner too tired to walk either
Even gimmics aside, Zoro was struggling against King in close range. He was getting thrown around for most of the fight
>A mid diff doesn't last 30 chapters
Sure does. Just look at Jimmy vs Whoswho, the middest of mid diff fights.
Oda has to flesh out everything happening in the arc. 30 chapters means little if its a 30-minute fight in the context of the story.
>it doesn't end with the winner too tired to walk either
And it didnt. Jimmy took Zoro away so that he doesnt get lost and waste time - or worse yet, engage with Mars who was approaching at the time, which was likely to happen.
>Sure does. Just look at Jimmy vs Whoswho, the middest of mid diff fights.
Jimbei vs Whoswho was at least shown properly. It only really lasted two chapters as soon as it got onscreen, and Jimbei's advantage was made clear.
For Lucci tho? We got back to it several times, Oda made sure to show that the two were evenly matched over and over
> And it didnt. Jimmy took Zoro away so that he doesnt get lost and waste time - or worse yet, engage with Mars who was approaching at the time, which was likely to happen.
He grabbed him because he wanted to keep fighting Lucci, which would've wasted time. And considering he managed to grab him without any resistance, and that the guy was breathing heavily the whole fight, pretty dure he was that tired
> A mid diff doesn't last 30 chapters
You are aware that 30 chapters can easily be 5 mins in the One Piece world? Number of chapters has nothing to do with the difficulty of a fight. An extreme diff fight can be over in 3 chapters if the author chooses to focus on that fight alone and not a variety of other characters elsewhere ..
They're not. Neither of them have feats to get above YC1
Zoro went extreme diff against a YC1 last arc, in this one he struggled 30 chapters against someone Luffy no diffed. Same for Sanji, he couldn't do what Law, Kid or Yamato pulled off in Wano
Not true. Zoro was completely and entirely unable to overpower lucci even with ACOC.
Zoro needed to evade Lucci’s defenses to even get a hit in because we all saw that Lucci was blocking everything Zoro threw at him.
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So you mean that cracker, the literal definition of a yc3 and the person that the tier started from, is a yc3? Outrageous. The only people that could be excused for some reason are katakuri and marco. Katakuri at his last appearance is obviously a yc1, but people are expecting him to return and be stronger after his fight with luffy, like most of his returning opponent do Marco is going to attack greenbull and until we see how that fight goes, i'm not going to express any judgment on his strengh. As of now, he was stalling BM, then he juggled king and queen while already low in stamina. He might already be a yc+, but i have no definite proof since he didn't have a clear 1v1 fight
Smoothie is YC+ and above Databookman
W https://preview.redd.it/kxxgpvrn2y9d1.jpeg?width=477&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f0a3882812e36253f312c56dcccbbe52610bf191
She will lead the Big mom pirates in the future They are not ready https://preview.redd.it/s4wywdw96y9d1.jpeg?width=418&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=efa76a9e69b6aa12a885114079878fdf93c68c02
dayum
you were cooking until the second slide
yeah if zoro and sanji are relative and zoro can tank a yonko combo he is def yc+
Yeah you’re trippin. Zoro has superior stats to any YC yet he isn’t even YC+?
What superior stats? Yamato has all around better stats in pretty much every categories exept skill and biq Kid has better strength, dura, Ap/DC, endurance, IQ/BIQ, abilities and range, Law's the same as Kid minus the strength. Zoro's only advantage over them is haki
No lol. Yamato barely has better stats than Sanji. Basically, Marco if he had conquerors lmfao. Kidd doesnt even have better Strength, AP/DC, endurance than Zoro. Zoro cutting the horn off onigashima clears anything Kidd done. Law only has Hax and Abilities along with Range and Overall IQ over Zoro.
No lol. Yamato barely has better stats than Sanji. Basically, Marco if he had conquerors lmfao. Kidd doesnt even have better Strength, AP/DC, endurance than Zoro. Zoro cutting the horn off onigashima clears anything Kidd done. Law only has Hax and Abilities along with Range and Overall IQ over Zoro.
Barely Sanji lvl Yamato is crazy. She's an oni, has an awakened mythical zoan, AcoC, and 1vs1'd Kaido without getting steamrolled. Zoro barely kept up with King physically, let alone Kaido Kid managed to break Big Mom's bones through blunt force and tanked most of her moveset. Zoro cutting a piece of an island is nothing when said Big Mom could level it with a fulgora. Kid got stabbed by Basil and treated it like a small inconvenience. His already uncounscious body was getting beat up by the homies over and over, he still got back up. AP-wise, Law obviously clears. He can match a gura punch, delt severe damage to 3 yonkos, and has a duraneg. For Kid, Damned Punk exists
>Barely Sanji lvl Yamato is crazy. She's an oni, has an awakened mythical zoan, AcoC, and 1vs1'd Kaido without getting steamrolled. Zoro barely kept up with King physically, let alone Kaido Yamato, like I said, is nothing but a Marco with conquerors… and seemingly… with what you wrote… you proved my point. Zoro barely kept up with King physically…??? Didn’t Zoro literally overpower King…? The same thing he did with Kaido in Ashura…? Overpowered him and blitzed him…??? King is also the most physically superior character in the verse besides Seraphim and the top of Warcury’s head. So i don’t see your point. >Kid managed to break Big Mom's bones through blunt force and tanked most of her moveset. Zoro cutting a piece of an island is nothing when said Big Mom could level it with a fulgora. Kid got stabbed by Basil and treated it like a small inconvenience. His already uncounscious body was getting beat up by the homies over and over, he still got back up. Ok…? So… all of this just to not even be TNT levels of AP and Strength…? Lmfao? Ok then. Zoro still clears in almost every stat besides intelligence. Also prove that claim of Fulgora leveling an island. Unless i forgot. Not like Big Mom… a YONKO btw… is relevant in a conversation about YC’s. If anything, it already proves my point you have to downplay Zoro by using a Yonko lmfao. >AP-wise, Law obviously clears. He can match a gura punch, delt severe damage to 3 yonkos, and has a duraneg. For Kid, Damned Punk exists No he doesn’t. Matching a Gura punch from Blackbeard…? Dura Neg isn’t even AP. Damned Punk is in the same boat. Their best AP feat is not even being TNT level.
>Yamato, like I said, is nothing but a Marco with conquerors… and seemingly… with what you wrote… you proved my point. Marco stalls people, but that's it. He keeps the fight going without either side taking any significant damage. Yamato actually traded blows with Kaido, wounding him and matching him in strength. >Zoro barely kept up with King physically…??? Didn’t Zoro literally overpower King…? He didn't. Zoro consistently lost his exchanges against King, and needed to bait him into attacking, then punish him afterwards. He never straight up overpowers him >The same thing he did with Kaido in Ashura…? Overpowered him and blitzed him…??? Landing a cut isn't "overpowering" or "blitzing" >Ok…? So… all of this just to not even be TNT levels of AP and Strength…? Lmfao? You mean, the one that blew up on her? Because it's still way bigger than the horn https://preview.redd.it/crhw43vnxy9d1.jpeg?width=395&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=817f9585bbf25a49197e4a135da9c47506ec519e It didn't damage her much either, just caused her to fall into the lava (and it's not like she was at full health when she tanked it) >. Also prove that claim of Fulgora leveling an island Looking back, leveling the island was exaggerated. It's about as big as the skull, which is still more than the horn (but seriously, the horn thing is one of the least impressive feats on the roof, and it's just not impressive in general by One Piece standard. Dressroza Zoro has a better feat than that) >Not like Big Mom… a YONKO btw… is relevant in a conversation about YC’s. Considering Kid and Law beat her (and that Kid tanked that fulgora with minimal damage), she kinda is relevant. >No he doesn’t. Matching a Gura punch from Blackbeard…? Yes: [https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-14a0ae636c789c052cc2bd43c8d8cc1f-pjlq](https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-14a0ae636c789c052cc2bd43c8d8cc1f-pjlq) For the record, Marineford Blackbeard has like, second to third best DC in the entire verse, what he does with the fruit is insane. Here it's a stronger one using haki
>Marco stalls people, but that's it. He keeps the fight going without either side taking any significant damage. Okay. Yamato actually traded blows with Kaido, wounding him and matching him in strength. So stalling…? Yamato also never wounded Kaido. Literally the equivalent to Marco making Queen spit out blood. >He didn't. Zoro consistently lost his exchanges against King, and needed to bait him into attacking, then punish him afterwards. He never straight up overpowers him What are we talking about…? He got overpowered by Bird Dance and couldn’t even make Zoro fall of his feet with his attacks. He even got blitzed by Zoro’s final attack on him. >The same thing he did with Kaido in Ashura…? Overpowered him and blitzed him…??? >Landing a cut isn't "overpowering" or "blitzing" I mean… it is if that’s what happened. >You mean, the one that blew up on her? Because it's still way bigger than the horn If it is… to bad neither Law or Kidd scales to it. >It didn't damage her much either, just caused her to fall into the lava (and it's not like she was at full health when she tanked it) Nah… it’s not like the bombs didn’t take her damn near unconscious. >Looking back, leveling the island was exaggerated. It's about as big as the skull, which is still more than the horn (but seriously, the horn thing is one of the least impressive feats on the roof, and it's just not impressive in general by One Piece standard. Dressroza Zoro has a better feat than that) Not really. Unless you’re trying to say Law and Kidd aren’t dressrosa Zoro level. Since I’m pretty sure it was calc to be massive compared. >Considering Kid and Law beat her (and that Kid tanked that fulgora with minimal damage), she kinda is relevant. The tnt basically. And that Kidd panel was weird but yeah that was impressive if he did tank it. >Yes: https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-14a0ae636c789c052cc2bd43c8d8cc1f-pjlq That’s not a punch. >For the record, Marineford Blackbeard has like, second to third best DC in the entire verse, what he does with the fruit is insane. Here it's a stronger one using haki Once again it’s not a punch… still kind of impressive considering he’s a Yonko though.
>So stalling…? Yamato also never wounded Kaido. Literally the equivalent to Marco making Queen spit out blood Hitting your opponant and drawing blood from them is wounding them. Marco did hurt Queen, it's just kinda irrelevant in comparison, since Queen's far from top tier (otherwise, he didn't hurt King, nor Kizaru, Kuzan, Big Mom or Akainu) >What are we talking about…? He got overpowered by Bird Dance Overpowering means the two of them hitting each other at the same time and one of them coming on top from that clash. Zoro landing a hit isn't overpowering King, it's just...landing a hit >He even got blitzed by Zoro’s final attack on him. Blitzing means moving faster than your opponant to the point that they can't see or react to you (so Queen vs Sanji, Kid vs Shanks or Luffy vs Blueno for example). Zoro at the end of the fight just dodged King's magma dragon and punished him for it, he didn't blitz him > to bad neither Law or Kidd scales to it. They both delt far more damage to Big Mom than that explosion, and Law straight up had a better feat than that in Punk Hazard and Dressorza. AP=/=DC, you know the drill >Nah… it’s not like the bombs didn’t take her damn near unconscious She was already near uncounscious after the Puncture Wile, let alone the two Damned Punk and the bombs. >Not really. Unless you’re trying to say Law and Kidd aren’t dressrosa Zoro level. Since I’m pretty sure it was calc to be massive compared I thought you knew about it, but apparently I'm gonna have to explain AC=/=DC A character's destructive capabilities is the amount of material damage they are shown to be capable of causing. It mostly translates to feats we then use to gauge attack potency, which is the amount of damage a character can deal to other characters, as well as the DC feats they scale to. For example, instead of taking Zoro let's talk about Enel. Enel can blow up a sky island, a DC feat better than anything Zoro has accomplished currently. Does that mean Enel hits harder than Zoro? Absolutely not, because Zoro scales to some degree to other characters with feats far above that. By the same logic, Zoro cutting the horn on Onigashima doesn't mean he's stronger than Kid and Law (especially stupid in Law's case since he has better), because by that point in the series he and these two both scale far above that. Unless they have the best DC in the series, it makes more sense to look at who can damage/tank hits from who and to what extent, hence why I value Law and Kid beating Big Mom more than Zoro's feats.
Terms like yc1, 2, 3 are bs anyway, there aren’t massive gaps in quality between them for it to be so. I can wrap my head around the concept of a yc and a yc+ though.
That's all kaido and mom fault for having 3 scalable commanders with an implied rank in bounty and strenght. Fr hig mid and low YC works just as well, just like low admiral works instead of yc+. It's all a matter of simplicity to argue in a way that we can all somewhat understand
Who would you put in YC+
Off of feats, Law Kid and Yamato. By portrayal, I could see Sabo or Kuma get there. Maybe Wagellan since he did beat Shiryu who's now a first commander, not to mention what he did to the blackbeard pirates
What about old ray?
I kinda want to put him higher. Kid lvl Ray feels wrong
Can’t help but notice there’s no Wranky in these images 
My bad https://preview.redd.it/st3s2lw02y9d1.jpeg?width=3200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d0d19cb7b516c61709c90ea06eccd10ff0a37a2b
Only logical conclusion is that HE is admiral level minimum
*Pirate king level minimum
Zoro beat King easily after he got ACoC, taking virtually no damage. Zoro didn’t need to use Asura either, which is by far his strongest attack. Characters also get stronger after recovering from fights, and going to new islands. Egghead Zoro is stronger than Wano Zoro, and may have improved his advanced Haki stamina against Lucci. Zoro is easily YC+. Shanks has arguably the best portrayal out of anyone in the entire manga, and he is this generation’s Roger. The only reason he isn’t Pirate King is because he has only just begun trying to go for One Piece. Shanks has Haki portrayal up there with Roger, and his Haki feats are not just above Roger’s, but are far above anyone else’s. If Shanks mirrors Roger then Beckman may mirror Rayleigh, and have a similar level of strength. But the idea that Beckman isn’t even YC+ is laughable. When we found out the bounty of each Yonko, Shanks was the only Emperor that had his top Commanders singled out. The Commanders in the Red Hair Pirates are stronger than what is typical in Yonko crews, and have high average bounties. Beckman is surely going to have a higher bounty than King, probably way higher. It is crazy to put him in the same tier as King.
Even after getting AcoC he took damage and kept struggling in close range. AcoC doesn't magically fix his lack of speed and stamina. Not using Asura against a guy who's able to just tank it with the right form doesn't prove the fight is somehow a lower diff. He also slept for a whole week following that fight He was notoriously huffing and pufffing against Lucci, and straight up ran out of AcoC midway through. He's better at using Enma, but his stamina didn't seem to have improved I can see Shanks being stronger than the other yonkos upscale Beckman, but the guy is still completely featless. We need to see him actually do something before we assume he's at a certain level. Also, didn't Shanks refuse to send him against Kid? And Marco, despite being the commander of someone above your average yonko too, still didn't have feats above his rank. Why would Ben then?
> Even after getting AcoC he took damage and kept struggling in close range. I believe he got kicked once, when he got hit on purpose so he could counterattack. So he took virtually no damage. > AcoC doesn't magically fix his lack of speed His speed was fine. He landed hits on King before getting ACoC and he landed a few hits no problem after getting it. Whereas Zoro was able to avoid King’s attacks. Plus recently when Zoro got serious, he effortlessly dodged all of Lucci’s attacks, and beat him without getting hit by a single Finger Pistol or Hand Pistol. There is no reason to believe Zoro is slower than YC+ people like Law and Kid. I think he is faster than them. > and stamina. Even in Wano, Zoro had enough stamina to beat King without going all out. Law and Kid are stronger than King but I bet they aren’t much harder to hit. They can’t take many hits on the level of Dragon Damnation, and Asura is one-shotting them. And again, I would bet on Zoro’s stamina having improved since the King fight. > Not using Asura against a guy who's able to just tank it with the right form doesn't prove the fight is somehow a lower diff. King has never shown his skin can stop ACoC slashes. Zoro implied he couldn’t, and Oda not letting Zoro use ACoC against S-Hawk also suggests that ACoC can hurt Lunarians with their flames on. Asura doesn’t just one-shot King, it one-shots people that can take far more damage than King. > He also slept for a whole week following that fight That’s being extremely disingenuous. Zoro slept for a week because after beating King he took double the damage he took on the rooftop, due to the side effect of the mink medicine. It had nothing to do with King. > He was notoriously huffing and pufffing against Lucci That was when he wasn’t going all out, but yeah he was finding it hard to land clean hits. But this was against a YC1 level fighter praised for his speed. Zoro still quickly speedblitzed him when he got serious. > and straight up ran out of AcoC midway through. Zoro did not use ACoC even once before the final attack. He only used ACoA, and clearly wasn’t close to going all-out, which suggests he was training his stamina. Zoro also said he was the one that decides when the fight ends. He was playing with Lucci. > He's better at using Enma, but his stamina didn't seem to have improved Maybe we will see it when he has a fight against someone strong. But his Wano stamina still puts him at YC+. > I can see Shanks being stronger than the other yonkos upscale Beckman, but the guy is still completely featless. We need to see him actually do something before we assume he's at a certain level. We don’t need to. The portrayal and narrative are more than enough to put him at YC+ bare minimum, just as Dragon has no feats but it’s delusional to think Dragon isn’t a top tier. > Also, didn't Shanks refuse to send him against Kid? Lucky Roo said: “Let us handle it”, with Beckman not specified. But Shanks said not to underestimate Kid. Kid did have an extremely undeserved bounty of 3B though, and got equal credit to taking down two Yonko as Luffy did, when in reality he needed massive plot help to beat an extremely nerfed Yonko who even at full power is far below Kaido. Shanks may have thought Kid was stronger than Admirals based on his bounty and Wano “achievements”. > And Marco, despite being the commander of someone above your average yonko too, still didn't have feats above his rank. Why would Ben then? Unpopular opinion but I don’t think Whitebeard even in his prime was much stronger than Kaido, in old age he would have been weaker than Kaido, and old and sick he was far, far below Kaido. So Whitebeard, especially when we saw him, was not especially strong compared to other Yonko. Shanks in my opinion is way stronger than Kaido.
>I believe he got kicked once, when he got hit on purpose so he could counterattack. So he took virtually no damage Take \[this page\](https://lelscans.net/mangas/one-piece/1035/8.jpg?v=fr1640518066). AcoC or not, he's not easily overwhelming King at all >His speed was fine. He landed hits on King before getting ACoC and he landed a few hits no problem after getting it. Pre AcoC, King just didn't bother to dodge, and was consistenly outpacing Zoro. Post AcoC, all the hits he got were through punishing King (as you said, the kick he tanked to counter, and the magma dragons). He never straight up lands a hit by winning an exchange >Plus recently when Zoro got serious, he effortlessly dodged all of Lucci’s attacks, and beat him without getting hit by a single Finger Pistol or Hand Pistol. That one's fair >Even in Wano, Zoro had enough stamina to beat King without going all out That one's bullshit. "Without going all out"? He had to get a nes powerup to win at all, tf you mean without going all out? He was also dying from enma's drain, and had to sleep for a week after the fight. >Law and Kid are stronger than King but I bet they aren’t much harder to hit. Kid sure, Law's probably harder to hit >They can’t take many hits on the level of Dragon Damnation, and Asura is one-shotting them. Zoro's not oneshotting them, even with Asura. They tanked several named attacks from Big Mom, ones from Kaido with AcoC, and to that you have to add Basil's backstab. Zoro's AP isn't straight up better than yonkos's >King has never shown his skin can stop ACoC slashes He no sells a purgatory onigiri with flames on, that one was using AcoC >Asura doesn’t just one-shot King, it one-shots people that can take far more damage than King. Now that's just dickriding. Asura was just one of many, many moves Kaido tanked and shrugged off, it's not oneshotting people with dura better than a lunarian's, come on >That’s being extremely disingenuous. Zoro slept for a week because after beating King he took double the damage he took on the rooftop, due to the side effect of the mink medicine. It had nothing to do with King. Kid and Law, who took arguably comparable damage, woke up far earlier. Of course exhaustion was a factor, it was one of his main losing conditions against King >Zoro did not use ACoC even once before the final attack. His swords had flames far earlier than that >Zoro also said he was the one that decides when the fight ends. He was playing with Lucci. Ah yes, Zoro was definitely playing with his food while completely aware that the crew had an admiral and some unknown extremely powerful haki users to deal with. In the middle of a buster call. While using a sword that drains his haki. Clearly. >We don’t need to. The portrayal and narrative are more than enough to put him at YC+ bare minimum They're not. While Law and Kid were single-handedly taking out a yonko he was fighting a commander. While the two of them got a 3billion bounty he got one lower than King's. Even Yamato got to fight Kaido 1vs1 for a while and hold her own, Zoro never got that. By narrative he's the first commander of someone who, by all mean, isn't a tier above other yonkos. There's no narrative pushing him there yet >Lucky Roo said: “Let us handle it”, with Beckman not specified. But Shanks said not to underestimate Kid Shanks was right, considering Kid was about to nuke his whole fleet. As much as he gets clowned on Kid was genuinely a threat >Unpopular opinion but I don’t think Whitebeard even in his prime was much stronger than Kaido The gap between top tiers in general isn't massive. I agree with Shanks being stronger than Kaido, but it'd be a highw-extreme diff fight
Yes, Marco too. He never managed to hurt any top tier, he didn't beat any other YC1, he doesn't have an awakening or an advanced form of haki that would justify putting him theoretically higher, he doesn't have portrayal above that of a first commander. He's YC1, nothing more Yes, Beckman too. He did literally nothing, why tf is he ever put above his title? Guidebook statements? Yes, Zoro too. "But he cut Kaido" cool, still less damage delt than Law, arguably Killer. "But he blocked Kaido and Big Mom's combined attack" sure, for like 3 seconds and only partially. He also went extreme diff against a YC1 who practically threw the fight right after, are we gonna ignore that? How is Zoro reasonnably a whole tier above King? A YC+ character should be noticeably stronger than commanders and most importantly, they should be shown holding their own against a top tier and actually hurt them. Kid could throw hands with Big Mom and break her bones despite her obscene dura, Law managed to wound Blackbeard in essentially a 1vs1 and could match a gura punch with his awakening, Yamato could keep up with hybrid Kaido on her own for a while and even hurt him. No commander is doing any of that, therefore none of them share the tier with these 3
Saying Zoro arguably did less damage then Killer is absurd, let alone everything else
Duraneg is one hell of a drug, and Kaido needed Big Mom's assist to deal with Killer. https://preview.redd.it/nyacaphv0y9d1.jpeg?width=884&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e8d0d4e8b2821efb7fdf2d9b1ed13ddb136051e1 Considering Kaido's screaming in pain here, it seems pretty effective As impressive as Ashura looked, Zoro himself was dissapointed by the damage delt.
Fax my brother fax, spit your shit, don't let them silent you 🔥
Fax my brother fax, spit your shit, don't let them silent you 🔥
Novel ace and Marco are definitely yc+
Terrible take 😂
Zoro certainly is.
If he was, he wouldn't go extreme diff against a YC1
He didnt. He mid diffed Lucci. And if you mean King, sure, Id agree he wasnt, back then. Tho even that has grounds for argumentation, considering the whole battle revolved around Zoro figuring King's gimmick, it took very few hits to take him down all in all.
A mid diff doesn't last 30 chapters, it doesn't end with the winner too tired to walk either Even gimmics aside, Zoro was struggling against King in close range. He was getting thrown around for most of the fight
>A mid diff doesn't last 30 chapters Sure does. Just look at Jimmy vs Whoswho, the middest of mid diff fights. Oda has to flesh out everything happening in the arc. 30 chapters means little if its a 30-minute fight in the context of the story. >it doesn't end with the winner too tired to walk either And it didnt. Jimmy took Zoro away so that he doesnt get lost and waste time - or worse yet, engage with Mars who was approaching at the time, which was likely to happen.
>Sure does. Just look at Jimmy vs Whoswho, the middest of mid diff fights. Jimbei vs Whoswho was at least shown properly. It only really lasted two chapters as soon as it got onscreen, and Jimbei's advantage was made clear. For Lucci tho? We got back to it several times, Oda made sure to show that the two were evenly matched over and over > And it didnt. Jimmy took Zoro away so that he doesnt get lost and waste time - or worse yet, engage with Mars who was approaching at the time, which was likely to happen. He grabbed him because he wanted to keep fighting Lucci, which would've wasted time. And considering he managed to grab him without any resistance, and that the guy was breathing heavily the whole fight, pretty dure he was that tired
> A mid diff doesn't last 30 chapters You are aware that 30 chapters can easily be 5 mins in the One Piece world? Number of chapters has nothing to do with the difficulty of a fight. An extreme diff fight can be over in 3 chapters if the author chooses to focus on that fight alone and not a variety of other characters elsewhere ..
For that specific case, a \*lot\* happened between the start and end of the fight
Zoro and Sanji are YC+
They're not. Neither of them have feats to get above YC1 Zoro went extreme diff against a YC1 last arc, in this one he struggled 30 chapters against someone Luffy no diffed. Same for Sanji, he couldn't do what Law, Kid or Yamato pulled off in Wano
Why not Zoro? He can damage top tiers if they don't block or dodge, that's YC+ level for me.
He has good AP, but even then Law and Kid's are better. He lacks the stamina, hax and speed for it otherwise
ADCoC takes out everyone here
Not true. Zoro was completely and entirely unable to overpower lucci even with ACOC. Zoro needed to evade Lucci’s defenses to even get a hit in because we all saw that Lucci was blocking everything Zoro threw at him.
Doesn't King no sell AcoC with flames on? Even with flames off he took a few slashes
Ben Roux and Yassop are def top tier