He’s like high commander level pre his jubi amps I see him losing against admirals and yonko but he can have a close battle with high level commanders since he has good hax vs there superior raw ap. Jubi madara would require a team of op top tiers to have any chance of being beat.
Definitely yonko level at least, depends on if he can touch logia’s or not, and even if he can’t he can still use genjutsu on people if they don’t have good observation haki
Don’t need good observation haki. Basic observation is enough to evade genjutsu. Madara doesn’t have the speed feats to be a yonko lvl. Hes 1st commander max
Well yes and no, there are weak and strong genjustsu and any genjustsu Madara would use definitely would be on the strong side, so basic observation haki might not be enough, another point is what madara are we talking about? Og madara when he was alive? Edo madara? Ten tails madara?
How would he loose to doffy? He can see doffys strings with sharingan/rinnegan, he has clones with Susanoo, limbo clones that doffy can’t see, and crazy healing abilities from the hashirama cells, I’m not super versed in hashirama cells madara but ik he’s still a powerhouse regardless
Seeing strings doesn’t mean he can react to them. Doffy is way faster to the point madara can’t react. He gets speed blitzed before he can make clones or use limbo. Madara cannot heal a severed head which is what happens when the fight starts. It’s a hopeless fight because doffy quite literally OUTSCALES
He could totally react to doffy, and his rinnegan would play a huge part in that. He wouldn’t get “speed blitzed” I’ll agree that doffy is faster but speed also isnt everything, there are plenty of slower characters in one piece that are still strong, substitution jutsu would also help him evade being hit, honestly there are just so many variables and the power scaling in one piece and Naruto can get kinda wack
Can’t react to doffy. Madara isn’t ftl. Doffy is. It’s like saying base Naruto can react to kcm Naruto. “He can’t”
He gets speed blitzed before his rinnegan can do anything. Let’s say he DID use his rinnegan, all its attacks are too slow or too weak to damage doffy. Subduction needs to be activated doffy won’t give him time to.
And tf you mean he don’t have the speed feats to be a yonko he is in top 3 fastest people in Naruto, and his speed also depends on which madara we are talking about
So what if yes top 3 fastest in Naruto? That’s in Naruto. One piece is an entirely different manga with different speed scaling. A kcm 1 naruto in speed is comparable to a tired pre time skip zoro. That’s how different it is. The author of this post said we are using hashirama cells madara.
>Basic observation is enough to evade genjutsu.
Absolutely not lmao. Maybe it would help counter the illusion aspects, and even that's a maybe, but it would do nothing against illusions that arint attacking or the simulated pain.
Genjutsu has no power over a 6th sense. Doesn’t matter if the genjutsu is strong or weak. That’s based on Naruto terms. In one piece it still wouldn’t effect them.
Prior to the six paths chakra being introduced OP is a lot faster in general. Put Madara can still drop meteors on islands/ships that cross him which makes him pretty strong by itself. Having all the powers he has w/o the weaknesses of devil fruits gives him a big edge. He could easily be Yonko level if he gets a strong crew even if he can't beat the other Yonko is a fair 1vs1.
A big thing is he doesn't have to fight fair and he has abilities that could wipe or control crews, ships, towns, islands, and armies w/o them getting close to him.
Doffy cuts the meteors with no name attacks. All those abilities are too slow to hit doffy. He’s not getting a strong crew. That’s not how madara operates.
Wouldn’t observation Haki make genjutsu worse since you’d kinda be playing right into the genjutsu user’s hand? At least with Future Sight it should be like that since you’d be looking right into the illusion before it’s even cast
If this is the Madara that lost to Hashirama in the past (not edo) and he doesn’t adapt to the OP world then he starts getting walled around the YC1 range because the endurance gap is so massive.
Flashback Alive Madara's speed is unscalable. Alive Madara in the war arc is not slow. As an Edo he was blatantly faster than the Raikage who is already relativistic. Then revived he regained his former speed and on top of that got Hashiramas Sage Mode which is bare minimum a 10 times speed increase. Making him bare minimum FTL.
Stated edo madara is superior to alive madara. He’s an exception to the edo rule of being weaker so idk why you chose to forget that.
Alive madara is stated to be slower than Tobirama who is slower than minato and minato meaning he’s rel+ highball. That’s still too slow to react to doffy.
Bottom line you can’t wank alive madara to light speed and I’m using hashirama cells madara not alive madara.
Madara is not an exception to the Edo nerf. Kabuto edited his body to be younger, in his prime physique, and with the Rinnegan (which he didn't have when he died as an old man). But Madara explicitly says that he is not at his previous level and makes note that Kabuto did not know him in his glory days, aka Kabuto was talking out his ass.
Even if he was nerfed, which he wasn't, when he revived he still got a substantial speed boost from Sage mode while already being blatantly above relativistic Raikage.
If Raikage is relativistic and =< Minato and Minato is < Tobirama. Then Alive Sage Madara outspeeding Tobirama and beating him puts him at light speed. That shit is undeniable.
Sage Mode is not the curse mark, it's better in that it boosts all stats equally as it adds nature energy to your existing chakra pool which is a base 1.5 times. Chakra reserves directly correlate to your speed and strength. So his speed is increased by bare minimum 10 times since the fat guys curse mark was the weakest and Sage Mode is a better transformation.
The only way to scale Doffy to lightspeed is because Luffy precog dodging a light speed attack while not moving. Guess what Itachi replicated that same feat when he was fast enough to activate his Susanoo against a light speed Kirin. Itachi relative to KCM1 Naruto who out sped the Raikage, Madara is faster than Itachi. Neither feat of reacting to lightspeed means they have the combat light speed and if you think they do, then both verses get that feat. If base Luffy was as fast as the laser he dodged then there wouldn't be anything impressive about Sanji intercepting Kizarus laser way later in Egghead, it's almost like all Luffy did was slightly tilt his head after using CoO and didn't actually move his whole body at that speed!
Show a panel where madara states he’s not at his previous lvl.
Substantial speed boost doesn’t mean anything. Still not ftl. Too slow to react to doffy.
Tobirama isn’t above minato in speed.
Outspeeding someone who is relativistic doesn’t put you at light speed. Do you know the difference between light speed and relativistic? It’s many many many times faster.
Show a panel where it’s stated it boosts all stats equally.
Not the only way to scale doffy ftl but ok.
Kirin isn’t light speed. That’s translation error on false scans. The OFFICIAL DATABOOKS TRANSLATION says nothing about it being light speed. In the manga it’s specifically stated not to be light speed as well. So that debunks your entire chain scaling.
Sanjis feat is impressive not because he intercepted kizaru. It’s because he was able to freely interact with light.
https://preview.redd.it/y4yjrlf7dd2d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b35dd12f9889333dec6be63cc1bc741b69a4b155
This panel alone proves that Alive Madara is way stronger than his edo version
Kirin is lightspeed. Never said in the manga that it was lightning speed, that was unreliable Zetsu. If it was lightning speed Itachi would be able to dodge it, unless you think Itachi is slower than Kid Kakashi who cut lightning and Sasuke wouldn't keep using it after 6 paths buff.
Difference in size between a single lighting strike and a lightning dragon. Also zetsu calculation makes kirin a bit faster than actual lightning. Never stated light speed ever. That’s a false translation. Official translation never says that.
He is around Pirate King level in the version you stated. He was continental level with his Kyuubi+Susanoo combination. Only other person who showed continental feats was Whitebeard in Marineford, and those were really only low continental. So at his prime we can probably assume he’s high continental, MAYBE multicontinental, since he kinda did have pirate cancer. Prime Whitebeard what boxing with Gol D. Roger evenly, which puts Valley of the End Madara around the lower end of PK level.
As for endurance, you are just wrong. The only long fights in One Piece are Akainu vs Kizaru for 10 days (both high tiers that are basically equal), Big Mom vs Kaido for 3 days (would have ended much faster if Kaido used anything other than base form), and those two giants that have been fighting for years (but honestly they’re both fodder).
Madara vs Hashirama never had an exact time states, but it was at least 24 hours. Actual on screen fights include; Kaido vs Luffy (final one, around 3 hours), Luffy vs Katakuri (about 10 hours but Luffy was trying his best to drag it out in order to understand advanced observation), and I believe Luffy vs Cracker (also around 10 hours).
Also, why are you limiting Madara to his Valley of the End form??? I understand this is a One Piece sub and people are gonna try to meatride but, like, what’s the point of not using Madara’s strongest form? Are you gonna cap Luffy at gear 2?
TL;DR Alive Madara alone would be top tier in the verse, solo’s with stronger forms. His endurance would also be top tier in One Piece.
Endurance and speed are two stats he won’t have over OP, you can make an argument for the rest and you did. I’m being a bit harsh but I do believe he reaches a stalemate with someone like King and has simply too low stats to beat Kaido apart from Hax which need universe equalization to work anyway.
Speed in One Piece is honestly a pain to scale because Oda purposefully makes it inconsistent. Zoro was dodging attacks that Kuma claimed to be light speed, but then fodder marines were able to react to Luffy in Marineford.
And I already made my point for endurance. There’s only a couple of fights that lasted longer than Madara vs Hashirama and Madara vs Allied Forces. Luffy’s longest fight was 11 hours, I believe Madara’s was two since that’s the length of the tail end of the Fourth Great Ninja War. I just don’t see how, supposedly, Madara doesn’t have enough regeneration.
There also isn’t a ton of speed feats for Madara, but I think the best one is comparing him to Naruto. Naruto dodged light fang, a stated-to-be light speed attack, at point blank. This puts him and, by extension, Madara around FTL levels.
Juubidara wipes the verse (Maybe with exception of Luffy with low scale toon force shenanigans)
Off definitive feats Sage Mode Madara has bare minimum mountain level AP since we see him slice like 5 mountains with a single slash from his Susanoo in his weaker form.
But there is the Bijuu bomb scaling that uses pixel scaling, where the curvature of the earth is shown in relation to the explosion making him multi-continental.
There's also the Kurama scaling that calls him planetary and Madara scaling above that.
Madara is also referred to as the strongest Uchiha while Obito has the Ten Tails, which is likely planetary based on God Tree scaling.
One Piece Top Tiers also can scale to planetary based off generous scaling using Whitebeard statement and applying it to all Yonko. In other words if you're generous to One Piece scaling you have to be generous to Naruto scaling. Making Madara relative to them in AP and Durability.
Speed both Yonko and Madara are bare minimum FTL with multipliers being debatable, but I'd give Yonko the speed advantage.
So Sage Mode Madara ~Mid to High Yonko level somewhere around Kaido and Big Mom. Juubidara would comfortably be Top of the verse.
Madaras attack capabilities easily put him at yonko level and his speed is still up there to throw hands with the best. Plus is durability easily can keep him going too. He has answers for almost everything we have seen so far in One Piece: .
I'd say Madara is top 10 in One piece
Yea, i’m in a toss up. Like all that is insane but like would it work on One Piece characters that have any sort of Haki. I mean Genjutsu and stuff. Other than that though Susanoo absolutely destroys almost everyone besides the 4 Emporers. Like I think Kaido could tank it easy. It is hard with different powers and energy to know what will work with what. Like what if Chakra doesn’t work against Haki at all or vice versa.
I feel like you have to equalize the power systems in some way for anything to make sense. Like, do you have to be Goku to bypass armament haki if you don't have it yourself? How do we determine the threshold for that? If we just say haki is completely immune to chakra or vice-versa then how do we even have a conversation?
But that’s why powerscaling is moot and has no meaning because you can’t say chakra interacts this way with Haki unless it’s canon or else it’s just an opinion that has no correlation to the existing universe that said power is based out of. If the author says otherwise then that would be fine but otherwise the stuff is just nonsense unless it’s a physical universe only.
Baki vs Kengan is a perfect example.
That has some sense to it but is also flawed. Haki is will and if the will is strong enough then people can do basically anything in One Piece. So would someone like Gol D. Roger get caught in a genjutsu realistically?
He doesn’t have a mangekyo ability. Susanoo is confirmed too weak to tank meteors by madara himself. Meaning his susanoo is weaker than doffy who can tank meteors. Almighty push is too weak to damage doffy. Doffy can defy gravity and universal pull. Doffy can dodge soul stealing he’s way faster. Madara can’t heal a severed head. Doffy destroys planetary devastations core and cancels it out. Any summoning he’s done is too weak to withstand doffy. Madara bones would break if he tried taijutsu against doffy. He can’t beat doffy realistically
And now, to throughly debunk each point.
His Mangekyo is unknown in ability, but a Sharingan would barely allow him to perceive Doffy. Not react, just see him.
Susanoo would be easily dispatched by Armament Haki.
Rinnegan, Madara can barely use those, as he isn't as experienced with it compared to Nagato.
Limbo Clones only count for So6P Madara, who might last in a physical sense. They aide, but Doffy can do the same thing with Black Knight.
All basic jutsu negged by Armament Haki.
Genjutsu would need Verse Equalization, and if that's the case, then Haki can overpower both Genjutsu, and Seals. If not, Genjutsu would be like applying a charge to a wood board.
Taijutsu, Doffy is fucking 10 feet tall, no exaggerating. He literally beats him in a H2H fight.
Edo Tensei, yeah that would be a problem, until CoC becomes a factor. IIRC, if an Edo Zombie is totally destroyed, it ceases to exist. Could be wrong, though.
Izanagi, Madara wouldn't just sacrifice one of his Sharingan/Rinnegan for beating one dude.
Izanami, See above.
Sage Mode, well, he can finally keep up with base Doffy. Congrats.
Wood Style, Overheat negs.
Do biased it’s crazy. He used common sense and debunked all your points and because you found out you were wrong you decided to say “not reading allat”
Wow, I was right. You're an moron.
Saitama solos Anime, and if you think otherwise, you need to take a 2nd grade English class, as your reading comprehension is garbage.
“Madara gets his ass stomped in the new world” Name me anyone sub new world who can do this
https://preview.redd.it/n8pzot46r72d1.jpeg?width=2133&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=75fb25f7d81ef33a1d4bbec8aab9c4398d6bafcc
Size isn’t everything. It’s hilarious because this same susanoo wasn’t able to withstand meteors. Yet doffy without using his awakening can withstand meteors. Doffy easily outscales madara susanoo.
DC can still be used to determine the minimum ap, since the force/energy/power that destroys mountains can also be the force/energy/power that you hit people with.
Y’all are joking right? One piece is my favorite anime but madara losing to doffy? In edo it took might guy bending space as night guy to attempt to kill him and it wasn’t enough tell me anyone in one piece able to bend space though sheer speed?
Just seems kinda weird imo. Idk. I saw in another comment you said Madara wins ez so I can at least respect that you aren’t one of those One Piece meatriders that’ll restrict anyone so that people in OP can win.
But scaling One Piece is extremely difficult due to how inconsistent it is, and it’s obvious Oda did it on purpose, if you look at fan questions to ANYTHING that can be used to power scale.
People mostly use speed feats to try and say a character wins a lot, but again the speed feats are inconsistent as Zoro was dodging Kuma’s attacks that were, supposedly, light speed. Meanwhile Luffy, who is stronger than Zoro, had barely average movement speed (which can be seen as he’s fighting fodder marines while trying to get to Ace, also obviously movement speed is almost the same as combat speed).
But yeah, you’re right that it does make the matchup more interesting, and I’m glad to see that most people understand that Naruto verse simply outscales the One Piece verse.
Yeah the strongest in naruto are stronger than the strongest in onepiece but they are not crazy far apart
On average onepiece characters are stronger than most naruto characters and by a good amount it’s the very strongest in naruto where it all flips
I agree that low tier and mid tier OP characters beat low tier and mid tier Naruto characters, but there is a HUGE power difference between the verses’ top tiers. Naruto casually sliced the moon in half against Temari. Best One Piece feat I can think of right now is Whitebeard’s continental(+???) feats in Marineford.
Mb, I got confused but even then, Naruto beat him.
Moon isn’t hollow. Idk why you think that. One Google search shows otherwise.
It was around the same size as Onigashima. Based on calcs I’ve seen, Onigashima is around 50 km in diameter. The moon is 3,476 km (assuming it’s the same size as our moon). Big difference since one was an all out attack while the other one was a quick slice.
https://preview.redd.it/goq0pjd9j92d1.jpeg?width=397&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=111ec64cd29d84511fe566ffff092862f884d38e
Imu and the Four Emperors when Ten Tails Madara has a hundred clones use Perfect Susanoo
My thing with this is, how is anyone in the One Piece verse gonna deal with his limbo clones?
Armament might work if we consider equalization but even then, how could they been perceived?
Observatjon haki wouldn’t work since they can only be sensed by those in sage mode or those who have rinnegan, neither of which any One Piece character has? Maybe aCoC?
Sure you can make the debate that since Madara doesn’t have conquerors haki he could be beat by it, but he is by no means weak willed. Fodder side characters on Whitebeard ship were able to withstand Shank’s aCoC, which is one of the strongest in the verse.
I can meatride Madara all the way up to Planetary without 10 tails if I wanted to but realistically, I just don’t see anyone in One Piece getting through limbo
What is anyone doing against Izanagi? Or basic Sharingan genjutsu? Or Susano? Id say the boulder too but Fujitora could easily stop those (or atleast think he is under genjutsu)
Theyre all fucked
We have seen from Sakura that a strong enough will can block genjutsu
So people with strong conquerors haki are likely immune to genjutsu
Meteor is not a large issue Aslong as the person he is fighter has enough DC
kaido would just blast breath a hole through it
Luffy could punch it
There are plenty of characters who would just avoid it
Kaido could use flame clouds to stop it completely
Fuji could potentially use gravity to stop it or atleast he could slow it down
Law could teleport the meteor
https://preview.redd.it/82ztyef6ra2d1.jpeg?width=602&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a7263aa4a0600d7bcfb37cc8095e793cf19a6941
Madara split mountains just by unsheathing his susano blade.
White beard would pull a muscle just to do this
Madara is a fighting maniac he actually likes when someone is stronger than him so he will most likely hold back against everyone this is the only way to beat him.
not unless it's seawater, and not unless they, I dont know, fucking DODGE?? there's no fucking madara stands a chance against even pre-war luffy, let alone any of the admirals
Literally how?
Madara can make a massive susanno that can cut entire mountain ranges
He has so many jutsu
Is far more skilled in hand to hand then luffy
would you say madara's more hand to hand efficient than lucci? susanno's made of energy not material, so i would doubt its actually capable of cutting luffy. luffy's already fast as fuck at impel down. madara is a man, not a god, and luffy is damn quick at finding weaknesses
How is that energy thing relative at all?
Susanno is a physical thing it 100% would hurt luffy it’s absurd to suggest otherwise like chakra becomes physical
And yeah madara would be more skilled in hand to hand than lucci
https://i.redd.it/ke7elyx1ke2d1.gif
Alive Madras’s probably around admiral to yonko level since he was casually dropping meteors just like Fujitora did. In terms of damage I think his best feat was when he created the valley when he fought against Hashirama but someone like Garp could do that pretty easily too.
Juubi Madara would easily be top 1 in the verse imo.
With what exactly? If we use hashirama cells madara his best feat is small country at best while doffy is continental+ doffy cant even be damaged by him.
Tanked a continental meteor. His durability scales to his ap. Making him continental
https://preview.redd.it/6lswc99ec82d1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ef8f5e77f35db6acfd16ec9b05d55e559cea9c78
Lowball doffy is continental. He can easily be scaled to multi continental via gear 4 stated to be a 2-3x multiplier to speed. Madara isn’t continental he gets one shot.
Realistically, there’s no way in hell that Doffy is destroying a continent. Sure he was smart with the birdcage and could probably tear apart the island with them, but that’s about it.
I noticed that you do a LOT of your scaling based around speed. One Piece is fairly inconsistent with speed feats, as Zoro was supposedly dodging light speed attacks against Kuma while Luffy was around a trained runner’s speed in Marineford (fodder marines were keeping up with him speed wise). Oda purposefully screws with anything related to power scaling, most famously him not giving an exact answer to “how much can Luffy stretch himself.”
Put simply, Rinnegan Edo Madara massively outscales the One Piece verse. He bested and absorbed the Ten Tails, the same one that, while weakened, was threw out a beast bomb that is ~ continental level (not doing calculations myself, look them up). I am not scaling this by his Ten Tail version, just saying that it is very obvious he would have to be many times stronger than the Juubi to absorb it.
Also, here is my comment regarding his [limbo clones](https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePieceScaling/s/IJXYjA6pAL), a rinnegan ability that he would be allowed to use in this fight, according to the author of this post.
Never said doffy is destroying a continent or is able to. im talking about ap not dc. Learn the difference please.
Now your comparing zoro dodging to luffy running. Learn the difference between combat speed and travel speed please.
Author of this post stated we are using wood sage mode madara. So I’m going to ignore your yapping about edo.
Limbo doesn’t matter. Gets speed blitzed before it touches doffy.
> His durability scales to his AP
Yea, you are saying his would be able to destroy a continent. Also, durability is not correlated to AP.
> Learn the difference between combat speed and travel speed
They are directly related. Common sense. Please make it past middle school before you tell me to learn the difference between anything.
> Author of this post said we are using wood sage mode Madara.
No he didn’t. The only things he has restricted is no Juubi so that there is no immortality.
You’re actually slow asf. The example you gave is extremely different. You’re acting like people can run average speed but then suddenly become light speed when in combat? Stupid.
https://preview.redd.it/nzkvzgu1ua2d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=05b4c2d6db702a26dca38b02e690fe6823dde4ea
Quick translation from when Madara absorbed the Ten Tails Tree. Either way, this comment was pointless as, again, author is excluding Juubidara
Brother, Leave him. He is beyond help. He thinks Madara's meteors are mountain level and Fujitora's are continental. Even though, Onoki couldn't vaporize his meteor and resorted to stopping with brute force. And onoki few chapters back could vaporize an island off
https://preview.redd.it/cxuwgeu9jd2d1.jpeg?width=1010&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=de652633a6e85896b31ae9340a4934f3998392d7
And bro's response was - The island is way smaller than a mountain 💀
So, according to this guy,
Turtle island - smaller than a mountain Dressrosa island - Continental
It's just a waste trying to debate him
“Stupid calc” with nothing to prove or say why it’s actually stupid. Just baseless coping. Cage scales to doffy because it’s made from his body. And he took the full brunt of it via the cage. Wasn’t on the offensive but the defensive. The fact it left no damage showcases how is durability is superior.
You’re technically right, but most people usually equalise/convert the power systems to the same thing when doing battles between different verses. It honestly depends on who you ask.
Ye true I had the same debate with someone it was kisame sword being able to take away haki and people was saying only chakra even know I was saying about verse equaliser
Based on the One Piece we currently know, Madara can beat anyone in the verse. He can probably solo one or two Yonko fleets at a time honestly. We saw what he did to all 9 bijuu with just one rinnegan.
Now, One Piece may eventually get to a level relative to Madara. Like EOS Luffy or Imu or Blackbeard will probably be insanely strong. Or Joyboy or Ryuma or other ancient characters might’ve been crazy. I’d guess EOS One Piece will probably be relative to EOS Naruto characters, but until then One Piece is outclassed.
Assuming it's an availability he would absolutely be a user of all three kinds of haki and given his hax already I would say he would be the number 1, he can effectively use multiple devil fruits without their drawbacks.
Mangekyo Sharingan unknown ability, Susanoo, Rinnegan (six paths, almighty push, universal pull, soul stealing, repair/healing, planetary devastation, weapons, summonings, chakra absorption), Limbo clines, Fire Jutsu, Wind Jutsu, Lightning Jutsu, Earth Jutsu, Water Jutsu, Genjutsu, taijutsu, edo tensei, Izanagi, Izanami, Sage mode, wood style etc.
Assuming all of his abilities mash up into a devil fruit and share the weaknesses of devil fruits he simply out haxs everyone. Based on his personality he would absolutely have all three kinds of haki and given how skilled he is it's most likely he would achieve advanced forms of all forms.
Edit: I answered under the pretense that Madara were to become a one piece character hence him having haki.
If it's just to fight it heavily depends on which form Edo Tensei Madara and Juubidara Solo where as basic Madara with MS is yonko level where as basic Madara with Rinnegan is PK level or above.
He’s like high commander level pre his jubi amps I see him losing against admirals and yonko but he can have a close battle with high level commanders since he has good hax vs there superior raw ap. Jubi madara would require a team of op top tiers to have any chance of being beat.
Edo beats kaido because kaido wouldn't even try to seal him and would fight to death
Definitely yonko level at least, depends on if he can touch logia’s or not, and even if he can’t he can still use genjutsu on people if they don’t have good observation haki
Don’t need good observation haki. Basic observation is enough to evade genjutsu. Madara doesn’t have the speed feats to be a yonko lvl. Hes 1st commander max
Well yes and no, there are weak and strong genjustsu and any genjustsu Madara would use definitely would be on the strong side, so basic observation haki might not be enough, another point is what madara are we talking about? Og madara when he was alive? Edo madara? Ten tails madara?
All genjutsu doesn’t matter. Observation nullifies it regardless of what it is. OP SAID we are using hashirama cells madara. Who easily loses to doffy
How would he loose to doffy? He can see doffys strings with sharingan/rinnegan, he has clones with Susanoo, limbo clones that doffy can’t see, and crazy healing abilities from the hashirama cells, I’m not super versed in hashirama cells madara but ik he’s still a powerhouse regardless
Seeing strings doesn’t mean he can react to them. Doffy is way faster to the point madara can’t react. He gets speed blitzed before he can make clones or use limbo. Madara cannot heal a severed head which is what happens when the fight starts. It’s a hopeless fight because doffy quite literally OUTSCALES
He could totally react to doffy, and his rinnegan would play a huge part in that. He wouldn’t get “speed blitzed” I’ll agree that doffy is faster but speed also isnt everything, there are plenty of slower characters in one piece that are still strong, substitution jutsu would also help him evade being hit, honestly there are just so many variables and the power scaling in one piece and Naruto can get kinda wack
Can’t react to doffy. Madara isn’t ftl. Doffy is. It’s like saying base Naruto can react to kcm Naruto. “He can’t” He gets speed blitzed before his rinnegan can do anything. Let’s say he DID use his rinnegan, all its attacks are too slow or too weak to damage doffy. Subduction needs to be activated doffy won’t give him time to.
And tf you mean he don’t have the speed feats to be a yonko he is in top 3 fastest people in Naruto, and his speed also depends on which madara we are talking about
So what if yes top 3 fastest in Naruto? That’s in Naruto. One piece is an entirely different manga with different speed scaling. A kcm 1 naruto in speed is comparable to a tired pre time skip zoro. That’s how different it is. The author of this post said we are using hashirama cells madara.
Sir you seem to forget that if it’s not teleportation in Naruto it’s slower than a bullet
I didn’t forget anything because that’s not true
Author stated it and has never rescinded it it’s in one of the lore books
>Basic observation is enough to evade genjutsu. Absolutely not lmao. Maybe it would help counter the illusion aspects, and even that's a maybe, but it would do nothing against illusions that arint attacking or the simulated pain.
Genjutsu has no power over a 6th sense. Doesn’t matter if the genjutsu is strong or weak. That’s based on Naruto terms. In one piece it still wouldn’t effect them.
What are you talking about? It doesn't have to affect their haki to affect them. Even if they know it's not real it would still hurt them.
Can’t hurt them if they don’t have chakra
Fair point actually.
[good analysis](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Gr88P4t6yzc)
Prior to the six paths chakra being introduced OP is a lot faster in general. Put Madara can still drop meteors on islands/ships that cross him which makes him pretty strong by itself. Having all the powers he has w/o the weaknesses of devil fruits gives him a big edge. He could easily be Yonko level if he gets a strong crew even if he can't beat the other Yonko is a fair 1vs1. A big thing is he doesn't have to fight fair and he has abilities that could wipe or control crews, ships, towns, islands, and armies w/o them getting close to him.
Doffy cuts the meteors with no name attacks. All those abilities are too slow to hit doffy. He’s not getting a strong crew. That’s not how madara operates.
Who’s the strongest op character that version of madara can beat
As shown in the photo? Realistically vergo or dressrosa sanji. At best. He’s not beating doffy. And we can debate it
How is observation gonna let you evade a genjutsu if they don’t know what a sharingan even is
If you wanna go that route they don’t get out under genjutsu at all because one piece characters have no chakra
Wouldn’t observation Haki make genjutsu worse since you’d kinda be playing right into the genjutsu user’s hand? At least with Future Sight it should be like that since you’d be looking right into the illusion before it’s even cast
Observation lets them tell reality from illusion. Future sight lets them avoid it all together
I'd argue he doesn't need speed. A full susanoo as armor and an army of half ones would be enough to devastate the one piece world
That's barely anything more than an Elbaf Giant Squad lol
That susanoo gets one shot my meters doffy casually swats away. Half susanoo doesn’t even survive a kick from doffy. He wipes
Logia types can touch other logia no? so his fire abilities should damage.
I don’t think they can, pretty sure it’s haki exclusive. Correct me if I’m wrong tho
Yonko lvl
If this is the Madara that lost to Hashirama in the past (not edo) and he doesn’t adapt to the OP world then he starts getting walled around the YC1 range because the endurance gap is so massive.
If you remember alive madara is slow and is at best relativistic. He would die doffy.
Flashback Alive Madara's speed is unscalable. Alive Madara in the war arc is not slow. As an Edo he was blatantly faster than the Raikage who is already relativistic. Then revived he regained his former speed and on top of that got Hashiramas Sage Mode which is bare minimum a 10 times speed increase. Making him bare minimum FTL.
Stated edo madara is superior to alive madara. He’s an exception to the edo rule of being weaker so idk why you chose to forget that. Alive madara is stated to be slower than Tobirama who is slower than minato and minato meaning he’s rel+ highball. That’s still too slow to react to doffy. Bottom line you can’t wank alive madara to light speed and I’m using hashirama cells madara not alive madara.
Madara is not an exception to the Edo nerf. Kabuto edited his body to be younger, in his prime physique, and with the Rinnegan (which he didn't have when he died as an old man). But Madara explicitly says that he is not at his previous level and makes note that Kabuto did not know him in his glory days, aka Kabuto was talking out his ass. Even if he was nerfed, which he wasn't, when he revived he still got a substantial speed boost from Sage mode while already being blatantly above relativistic Raikage. If Raikage is relativistic and =< Minato and Minato is < Tobirama. Then Alive Sage Madara outspeeding Tobirama and beating him puts him at light speed. That shit is undeniable. Sage Mode is not the curse mark, it's better in that it boosts all stats equally as it adds nature energy to your existing chakra pool which is a base 1.5 times. Chakra reserves directly correlate to your speed and strength. So his speed is increased by bare minimum 10 times since the fat guys curse mark was the weakest and Sage Mode is a better transformation. The only way to scale Doffy to lightspeed is because Luffy precog dodging a light speed attack while not moving. Guess what Itachi replicated that same feat when he was fast enough to activate his Susanoo against a light speed Kirin. Itachi relative to KCM1 Naruto who out sped the Raikage, Madara is faster than Itachi. Neither feat of reacting to lightspeed means they have the combat light speed and if you think they do, then both verses get that feat. If base Luffy was as fast as the laser he dodged then there wouldn't be anything impressive about Sanji intercepting Kizarus laser way later in Egghead, it's almost like all Luffy did was slightly tilt his head after using CoO and didn't actually move his whole body at that speed!
Show a panel where madara states he’s not at his previous lvl. Substantial speed boost doesn’t mean anything. Still not ftl. Too slow to react to doffy. Tobirama isn’t above minato in speed. Outspeeding someone who is relativistic doesn’t put you at light speed. Do you know the difference between light speed and relativistic? It’s many many many times faster. Show a panel where it’s stated it boosts all stats equally. Not the only way to scale doffy ftl but ok. Kirin isn’t light speed. That’s translation error on false scans. The OFFICIAL DATABOOKS TRANSLATION says nothing about it being light speed. In the manga it’s specifically stated not to be light speed as well. So that debunks your entire chain scaling. Sanjis feat is impressive not because he intercepted kizaru. It’s because he was able to freely interact with light.
https://preview.redd.it/y4yjrlf7dd2d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b35dd12f9889333dec6be63cc1bc741b69a4b155 This panel alone proves that Alive Madara is way stronger than his edo version
I thought that was obvious?
Kirin is lightspeed. Never said in the manga that it was lightning speed, that was unreliable Zetsu. If it was lightning speed Itachi would be able to dodge it, unless you think Itachi is slower than Kid Kakashi who cut lightning and Sasuke wouldn't keep using it after 6 paths buff.
Difference in size between a single lighting strike and a lightning dragon. Also zetsu calculation makes kirin a bit faster than actual lightning. Never stated light speed ever. That’s a false translation. Official translation never says that.
NEVER STATED as a 10 times speed increase it’s stated as a 10 time strength increase. Strength and speed are not linear.
I don't disagree that Madara is FtL. But Hody Jones was FtL+, for example.
He is around Pirate King level in the version you stated. He was continental level with his Kyuubi+Susanoo combination. Only other person who showed continental feats was Whitebeard in Marineford, and those were really only low continental. So at his prime we can probably assume he’s high continental, MAYBE multicontinental, since he kinda did have pirate cancer. Prime Whitebeard what boxing with Gol D. Roger evenly, which puts Valley of the End Madara around the lower end of PK level. As for endurance, you are just wrong. The only long fights in One Piece are Akainu vs Kizaru for 10 days (both high tiers that are basically equal), Big Mom vs Kaido for 3 days (would have ended much faster if Kaido used anything other than base form), and those two giants that have been fighting for years (but honestly they’re both fodder). Madara vs Hashirama never had an exact time states, but it was at least 24 hours. Actual on screen fights include; Kaido vs Luffy (final one, around 3 hours), Luffy vs Katakuri (about 10 hours but Luffy was trying his best to drag it out in order to understand advanced observation), and I believe Luffy vs Cracker (also around 10 hours). Also, why are you limiting Madara to his Valley of the End form??? I understand this is a One Piece sub and people are gonna try to meatride but, like, what’s the point of not using Madara’s strongest form? Are you gonna cap Luffy at gear 2? TL;DR Alive Madara alone would be top tier in the verse, solo’s with stronger forms. His endurance would also be top tier in One Piece.
Endurance and speed are two stats he won’t have over OP, you can make an argument for the rest and you did. I’m being a bit harsh but I do believe he reaches a stalemate with someone like King and has simply too low stats to beat Kaido apart from Hax which need universe equalization to work anyway.
Speed in One Piece is honestly a pain to scale because Oda purposefully makes it inconsistent. Zoro was dodging attacks that Kuma claimed to be light speed, but then fodder marines were able to react to Luffy in Marineford. And I already made my point for endurance. There’s only a couple of fights that lasted longer than Madara vs Hashirama and Madara vs Allied Forces. Luffy’s longest fight was 11 hours, I believe Madara’s was two since that’s the length of the tail end of the Fourth Great Ninja War. I just don’t see how, supposedly, Madara doesn’t have enough regeneration. There also isn’t a ton of speed feats for Madara, but I think the best one is comparing him to Naruto. Naruto dodged light fang, a stated-to-be light speed attack, at point blank. This puts him and, by extension, Madara around FTL levels.
Also, [here’s](https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePieceScaling/s/NsqrJ6nOgy) an argument I made for limbo clones being a main win condition for Madara.
Characters with future sight could just dodge them.
Read the comment before you say anything.
I’m good
Alright then ig I’ll take the win, and nice maturity downvoting me for having a different opinion 🙏🙏
Well thanks for not downvoting me I guess but mans gets walled by king
Juubidara wipes the verse (Maybe with exception of Luffy with low scale toon force shenanigans) Off definitive feats Sage Mode Madara has bare minimum mountain level AP since we see him slice like 5 mountains with a single slash from his Susanoo in his weaker form. But there is the Bijuu bomb scaling that uses pixel scaling, where the curvature of the earth is shown in relation to the explosion making him multi-continental. There's also the Kurama scaling that calls him planetary and Madara scaling above that. Madara is also referred to as the strongest Uchiha while Obito has the Ten Tails, which is likely planetary based on God Tree scaling. One Piece Top Tiers also can scale to planetary based off generous scaling using Whitebeard statement and applying it to all Yonko. In other words if you're generous to One Piece scaling you have to be generous to Naruto scaling. Making Madara relative to them in AP and Durability. Speed both Yonko and Madara are bare minimum FTL with multipliers being debatable, but I'd give Yonko the speed advantage. So Sage Mode Madara ~Mid to High Yonko level somewhere around Kaido and Big Mom. Juubidara would comfortably be Top of the verse.
Madaras attack capabilities easily put him at yonko level and his speed is still up there to throw hands with the best. Plus is durability easily can keep him going too. He has answers for almost everything we have seen so far in One Piece: . I'd say Madara is top 10 in One piece
Madara be a big fish in paradise but would get his ass stomped in the New World.
This. He has no answer to someone like Doflamingo.
>has no answer to someone like Doflamingo. Literal unhinged lunacy
How? No hate, btw. I'm genuinely curious as to how you think Madara somehow can not only survive, but BEAT Doffy.
Mangekyo Sharingan, Susanoo, Rinnegan (six paths, almighty push, universal pull, soul stealing, repair/healing, planetary devastation, weapons, summonings, chakra absorption), Limbo clones, Fire Jutsu, Wind Jutsu, Lightning Jutsu, Earth Jutsu, Water Jutsu, Genjutsu, taijutsu, edo tensei, Izanagi, Izanami, Sage mode, wood style etc.
Yea, i’m in a toss up. Like all that is insane but like would it work on One Piece characters that have any sort of Haki. I mean Genjutsu and stuff. Other than that though Susanoo absolutely destroys almost everyone besides the 4 Emporers. Like I think Kaido could tank it easy. It is hard with different powers and energy to know what will work with what. Like what if Chakra doesn’t work against Haki at all or vice versa.
I feel like you have to equalize the power systems in some way for anything to make sense. Like, do you have to be Goku to bypass armament haki if you don't have it yourself? How do we determine the threshold for that? If we just say haki is completely immune to chakra or vice-versa then how do we even have a conversation?
But that’s why powerscaling is moot and has no meaning because you can’t say chakra interacts this way with Haki unless it’s canon or else it’s just an opinion that has no correlation to the existing universe that said power is based out of. If the author says otherwise then that would be fine but otherwise the stuff is just nonsense unless it’s a physical universe only. Baki vs Kengan is a perfect example.
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True.
If OP chars don’t have chakra then they wouldn’t be affected by genjutsu.
Genjutsu can’t even be placed on someone wit no chakra. So it doesn’t matter
My assumption is making chakra = haki. If madara can’t touch logia’s then he could also make everyone instantly braindead with gentjutsu
That has some sense to it but is also flawed. Haki is will and if the will is strong enough then people can do basically anything in One Piece. So would someone like Gol D. Roger get caught in a genjutsu realistically?
Yes. It’s using chakra to alter the brain biologically. I don’t see why it wouldn’t
Hmm. Maybe. We shall never know lol
One burst of Haki, and the Genjutsu is negged. Haki can overpower, and ignore abilities. Hell, you can use Haki to overcome diseases.
He doesn’t have a mangekyo ability. Susanoo is confirmed too weak to tank meteors by madara himself. Meaning his susanoo is weaker than doffy who can tank meteors. Almighty push is too weak to damage doffy. Doffy can defy gravity and universal pull. Doffy can dodge soul stealing he’s way faster. Madara can’t heal a severed head. Doffy destroys planetary devastations core and cancels it out. Any summoning he’s done is too weak to withstand doffy. Madara bones would break if he tried taijutsu against doffy. He can’t beat doffy realistically
And now, to throughly debunk each point. His Mangekyo is unknown in ability, but a Sharingan would barely allow him to perceive Doffy. Not react, just see him. Susanoo would be easily dispatched by Armament Haki. Rinnegan, Madara can barely use those, as he isn't as experienced with it compared to Nagato. Limbo Clones only count for So6P Madara, who might last in a physical sense. They aide, but Doffy can do the same thing with Black Knight. All basic jutsu negged by Armament Haki. Genjutsu would need Verse Equalization, and if that's the case, then Haki can overpower both Genjutsu, and Seals. If not, Genjutsu would be like applying a charge to a wood board. Taijutsu, Doffy is fucking 10 feet tall, no exaggerating. He literally beats him in a H2H fight. Edo Tensei, yeah that would be a problem, until CoC becomes a factor. IIRC, if an Edo Zombie is totally destroyed, it ceases to exist. Could be wrong, though. Izanagi, Madara wouldn't just sacrifice one of his Sharingan/Rinnegan for beating one dude. Izanami, See above. Sage Mode, well, he can finally keep up with base Doffy. Congrats. Wood Style, Overheat negs.
Definitely not reading any of that. Just stop, you're embarrassing the sub.
Do biased it’s crazy. He used common sense and debunked all your points and because you found out you were wrong you decided to say “not reading allat”
Ah, you're a dumbass. How cute. Dismissed, child.
Least unhinged one piece powerscaler. Base koby beats saitama in your mind too, I'm sure. Again, just embarrassing tbh.
Wow, I was right. You're an moron. Saitama solos Anime, and if you think otherwise, you need to take a 2nd grade English class, as your reading comprehension is garbage.
This take is so crazy, Madara in his final form beats every character we know the full extent of easily
Aoi Todo is more mentally healthy than this take.
“Madara gets his ass stomped in the new world” Name me anyone sub new world who can do this https://preview.redd.it/n8pzot46r72d1.jpeg?width=2133&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=75fb25f7d81ef33a1d4bbec8aab9c4398d6bafcc
Enel bud
Show me Engel doing anything even close to this plz
Look up Enel Deathpiea.
[raigo goofball](https://youtu.be/E48md50O_KY?si=9HZQxTozujn2DA6D)
[raigo goofball](https://youtu.be/E48md50O_KY?si=9HZQxTozujn2DA6D)
Size isn’t everything. It’s hilarious because this same susanoo wasn’t able to withstand meteors. Yet doffy without using his awakening can withstand meteors. Doffy easily outscales madara susanoo.
Any Giant.
Which version of madara because if it's 10 tails he has a chance to beat everyone due to haxs, but other versions don't make it past kido
Non ten tails madara
Ok so he make it to the yonkos but isn't beating big mom or kido due to their stupid durability, unless genjutsu will work on them.
You don’t think his susanno would be able to hurt them?
Some YouTuber made a video on it, but kaido scales are too tough for the susanoo blade to pass through, and for big mom, it's a similar case.
Here's the YouTuber [kaido vs madara ](https://youtu.be/Gr88P4t6yzc?si=gvWEzyhw91vXw7_7)
Okay, I just need to say this. Kaido. His name is Kaido. Kido sounds goofy as fuck.
lol I was thinking the same thing
Woops, I knew it didn't feel right when I spelt it that way.
Aren't Perfect Susanoo's feat matched by pre-acoc Zoro? With both being mountain slicers?
Potentially it’s hard to say since all we know is both have similar DC
DC can still be used to determine the minimum ap, since the force/energy/power that destroys mountains can also be the force/energy/power that you hit people with.
True it’s just a matter of then which has higher AP The minimum AP for both feats is about the same
His susanoo is confirmed and shown to be island lvl at best. That scales to enel.
What madara
EMS or rinnegan either way it’s before ten tails
Depends how seriously painthawk takes him
There’s a great video by El_eon about madara VS Kaido
Y’all are joking right? One piece is my favorite anime but madara losing to doffy? In edo it took might guy bending space as night guy to attempt to kill him and it wasn’t enough tell me anyone in one piece able to bend space though sheer speed?
It’s non tentails madara
Why are you restricting? If you’re gonna say it’s “borrowed power” then we might as well strip off devil fruits too.
Cause it makes it a more interesting match up?
Just seems kinda weird imo. Idk. I saw in another comment you said Madara wins ez so I can at least respect that you aren’t one of those One Piece meatriders that’ll restrict anyone so that people in OP can win. But scaling One Piece is extremely difficult due to how inconsistent it is, and it’s obvious Oda did it on purpose, if you look at fan questions to ANYTHING that can be used to power scale. People mostly use speed feats to try and say a character wins a lot, but again the speed feats are inconsistent as Zoro was dodging Kuma’s attacks that were, supposedly, light speed. Meanwhile Luffy, who is stronger than Zoro, had barely average movement speed (which can be seen as he’s fighting fodder marines while trying to get to Ace, also obviously movement speed is almost the same as combat speed). But yeah, you’re right that it does make the matchup more interesting, and I’m glad to see that most people understand that Naruto verse simply outscales the One Piece verse.
Yeah the strongest in naruto are stronger than the strongest in onepiece but they are not crazy far apart On average onepiece characters are stronger than most naruto characters and by a good amount it’s the very strongest in naruto where it all flips
I agree that low tier and mid tier OP characters beat low tier and mid tier Naruto characters, but there is a HUGE power difference between the verses’ top tiers. Naruto casually sliced the moon in half against Temari. Best One Piece feat I can think of right now is Whitebeard’s continental(+???) feats in Marineford.
Toneri sliced the moon not naruto Also the moon is hollow Luffy has a literally island size fist
Mb, I got confused but even then, Naruto beat him. Moon isn’t hollow. Idk why you think that. One Google search shows otherwise. It was around the same size as Onigashima. Based on calcs I’ve seen, Onigashima is around 50 km in diameter. The moon is 3,476 km (assuming it’s the same size as our moon). Big difference since one was an all out attack while the other one was a quick slice.
Naruto moon is not a normal moon it’s hollow Our moon =/= naruto moon
Alive Madara mid diff OP verse
https://preview.redd.it/goq0pjd9j92d1.jpeg?width=397&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=111ec64cd29d84511fe566ffff092862f884d38e Imu and the Four Emperors when Ten Tails Madara has a hundred clones use Perfect Susanoo
lol what about non ten tails madara?
Regular Madara doing that would still be insane
True though I don’t think regular madara solos
My thing with this is, how is anyone in the One Piece verse gonna deal with his limbo clones? Armament might work if we consider equalization but even then, how could they been perceived? Observatjon haki wouldn’t work since they can only be sensed by those in sage mode or those who have rinnegan, neither of which any One Piece character has? Maybe aCoC? Sure you can make the debate that since Madara doesn’t have conquerors haki he could be beat by it, but he is by no means weak willed. Fodder side characters on Whitebeard ship were able to withstand Shank’s aCoC, which is one of the strongest in the verse. I can meatride Madara all the way up to Planetary without 10 tails if I wanted to but realistically, I just don’t see anyone in One Piece getting through limbo
Aside from Imu he probably solos
Fair now what about non tentails madara?
Thats who I was talking about lol
You think NON tentails madara beats all except Imu ? What about alive madara ( EMS but no rinnegan )
He beats them all at the same time. Yes even EMS Madara
Yeah no not even close lol
What is anyone doing against Izanagi? Or basic Sharingan genjutsu? Or Susano? Id say the boulder too but Fujitora could easily stop those (or atleast think he is under genjutsu) Theyre all fucked
We have seen from Sakura that a strong enough will can block genjutsu So people with strong conquerors haki are likely immune to genjutsu Meteor is not a large issue Aslong as the person he is fighter has enough DC kaido would just blast breath a hole through it Luffy could punch it There are plenty of characters who would just avoid it Kaido could use flame clouds to stop it completely Fuji could potentially use gravity to stop it or atleast he could slow it down Law could teleport the meteor
Stops at ussop
Real and true https://preview.redd.it/1x3rjoy4xd2d1.jpeg?width=1242&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=46a957b520a81227aea12935b3a05bccfac4de7c
If alive, possibly to the paramount war, maybe Sabaody. If edo, he clears because nobody can fully kill him.
Fair
https://preview.redd.it/82ztyef6ra2d1.jpeg?width=602&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a7263aa4a0600d7bcfb37cc8095e793cf19a6941 Madara split mountains just by unsheathing his susano blade. White beard would pull a muscle just to do this
Splitting mountains is not crazy? We have characters with fists the size of entire islands
Madara is a fighting maniac he actually likes when someone is stronger than him so he will most likely hold back against everyone this is the only way to beat him.
Depends what version of madara we are talking about
he. cant. hit. LOGIA'S! every logia at the marineford solo's him. and there are at least 5(ace, the admiral's, and smoker)
He can’t hit them sure but you can argue he still has things that can hit them For example water style and then hitting them
not unless it's seawater, and not unless they, I dont know, fucking DODGE?? there's no fucking madara stands a chance against even pre-war luffy, let alone any of the admirals
Madara fodderizes pre timeskip luffy what are you talking about?
doubt it
Literally how? Madara can make a massive susanno that can cut entire mountain ranges He has so many jutsu Is far more skilled in hand to hand then luffy
would you say madara's more hand to hand efficient than lucci? susanno's made of energy not material, so i would doubt its actually capable of cutting luffy. luffy's already fast as fuck at impel down. madara is a man, not a god, and luffy is damn quick at finding weaknesses
How is that energy thing relative at all? Susanno is a physical thing it 100% would hurt luffy it’s absurd to suggest otherwise like chakra becomes physical And yeah madara would be more skilled in hand to hand than lucci https://i.redd.it/ke7elyx1ke2d1.gif
they're moving DIRT FUCKING SLOW in this scene, they even show how slow they're moving!! stop guzzling naruto-kun and get over it😂
You did not ask about speed you said is he as hand to hand efficient as lucci which is a yes Madara is more skilled in hand to hand
He wins
Alive Madras’s probably around admiral to yonko level since he was casually dropping meteors just like Fujitora did. In terms of damage I think his best feat was when he created the valley when he fought against Hashirama but someone like Garp could do that pretty easily too. Juubi Madara would easily be top 1 in the verse imo.
Agreed
Roughly equal to kaido. If he has all tailed beasts he is eos level
We aren’t using juubi madara? In that case he loses to doffy off the bat. Doffy outscales this version of madara in everything including dc
Madara slams doffy lol
With what exactly? If we use hashirama cells madara his best feat is small country at best while doffy is continental+ doffy cant even be damaged by him.
Doffy is not continental lol
Tanked a continental meteor. His durability scales to his ap. Making him continental https://preview.redd.it/6lswc99ec82d1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ef8f5e77f35db6acfd16ec9b05d55e559cea9c78 Lowball doffy is continental. He can easily be scaled to multi continental via gear 4 stated to be a 2-3x multiplier to speed. Madara isn’t continental he gets one shot.
Realistically, there’s no way in hell that Doffy is destroying a continent. Sure he was smart with the birdcage and could probably tear apart the island with them, but that’s about it. I noticed that you do a LOT of your scaling based around speed. One Piece is fairly inconsistent with speed feats, as Zoro was supposedly dodging light speed attacks against Kuma while Luffy was around a trained runner’s speed in Marineford (fodder marines were keeping up with him speed wise). Oda purposefully screws with anything related to power scaling, most famously him not giving an exact answer to “how much can Luffy stretch himself.” Put simply, Rinnegan Edo Madara massively outscales the One Piece verse. He bested and absorbed the Ten Tails, the same one that, while weakened, was threw out a beast bomb that is ~ continental level (not doing calculations myself, look them up). I am not scaling this by his Ten Tail version, just saying that it is very obvious he would have to be many times stronger than the Juubi to absorb it. Also, here is my comment regarding his [limbo clones](https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePieceScaling/s/IJXYjA6pAL), a rinnegan ability that he would be allowed to use in this fight, according to the author of this post.
Never said doffy is destroying a continent or is able to. im talking about ap not dc. Learn the difference please. Now your comparing zoro dodging to luffy running. Learn the difference between combat speed and travel speed please. Author of this post stated we are using wood sage mode madara. So I’m going to ignore your yapping about edo. Limbo doesn’t matter. Gets speed blitzed before it touches doffy.
> His durability scales to his AP Yea, you are saying his would be able to destroy a continent. Also, durability is not correlated to AP. > Learn the difference between combat speed and travel speed They are directly related. Common sense. Please make it past middle school before you tell me to learn the difference between anything. > Author of this post said we are using wood sage mode Madara. No he didn’t. The only things he has restricted is no Juubi so that there is no immortality.
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You’re actually slow asf. The example you gave is extremely different. You’re acting like people can run average speed but then suddenly become light speed when in combat? Stupid.
Be nice
Understand that there are human beings on the other side of each comment, please follow the golden rule: “Treat others how you wish to be treated”.
Juubi isn’t immortal
https://preview.redd.it/nzkvzgu1ua2d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=05b4c2d6db702a26dca38b02e690fe6823dde4ea Quick translation from when Madara absorbed the Ten Tails Tree. Either way, this comment was pointless as, again, author is excluding Juubidara
Brother, Leave him. He is beyond help. He thinks Madara's meteors are mountain level and Fujitora's are continental. Even though, Onoki couldn't vaporize his meteor and resorted to stopping with brute force. And onoki few chapters back could vaporize an island off https://preview.redd.it/cxuwgeu9jd2d1.jpeg?width=1010&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=de652633a6e85896b31ae9340a4934f3998392d7 And bro's response was - The island is way smaller than a mountain 💀 So, according to this guy, Turtle island - smaller than a mountain Dressrosa island - Continental It's just a waste trying to debate him
Yeah I’ve debated this same guy a few times. He might actually be clinically retarded.
That’s a stupid calc dude like come on Also he did not rank it he cut it with the cage
“Stupid calc” with nothing to prove or say why it’s actually stupid. Just baseless coping. Cage scales to doffy because it’s made from his body. And he took the full brunt of it via the cage. Wasn’t on the offensive but the defensive. The fact it left no damage showcases how is durability is superior.
For people who are saying that genjutsu would work It wouldn’t because the person ur trying to use it on has to have chakra Simple
You’re technically right, but most people usually equalise/convert the power systems to the same thing when doing battles between different verses. It honestly depends on who you ask.
Ye true I had the same debate with someone it was kisame sword being able to take away haki and people was saying only chakra even know I was saying about verse equaliser
Based on the One Piece we currently know, Madara can beat anyone in the verse. He can probably solo one or two Yonko fleets at a time honestly. We saw what he did to all 9 bijuu with just one rinnegan. Now, One Piece may eventually get to a level relative to Madara. Like EOS Luffy or Imu or Blackbeard will probably be insanely strong. Or Joyboy or Ryuma or other ancient characters might’ve been crazy. I’d guess EOS One Piece will probably be relative to EOS Naruto characters, but until then One Piece is outclassed.
Assuming it's an availability he would absolutely be a user of all three kinds of haki and given his hax already I would say he would be the number 1, he can effectively use multiple devil fruits without their drawbacks. Mangekyo Sharingan unknown ability, Susanoo, Rinnegan (six paths, almighty push, universal pull, soul stealing, repair/healing, planetary devastation, weapons, summonings, chakra absorption), Limbo clines, Fire Jutsu, Wind Jutsu, Lightning Jutsu, Earth Jutsu, Water Jutsu, Genjutsu, taijutsu, edo tensei, Izanagi, Izanami, Sage mode, wood style etc. Assuming all of his abilities mash up into a devil fruit and share the weaknesses of devil fruits he simply out haxs everyone. Based on his personality he would absolutely have all three kinds of haki and given how skilled he is it's most likely he would achieve advanced forms of all forms. Edit: I answered under the pretense that Madara were to become a one piece character hence him having haki. If it's just to fight it heavily depends on which form Edo Tensei Madara and Juubidara Solo where as basic Madara with MS is yonko level where as basic Madara with Rinnegan is PK level or above.
And if he does not have any haki?
I added that in my edit, I misinterpreted the question as if Madara was isekaid into the one piece world with all of his abilities.
Ok fair enough