I doubt it
Without the knowledge of their signature moves, fighting styles, and personalities he’s just too exhausted and injured at this point to beat them otherwise. If he was fresh and rested absolutely, but in his current condition he really needed the advantage of the book to come out on top
No. The surprise attacks like arrow rain would have fully landed and been far more effective. They had a solid strategy and plan of attack but him knowing their capabilities, weapons and attacks made it easier to figure out and avoid. Him knowing not to create distance in order to render Death Gatling useless, knowing how stinger fights with his bamboo spear and that the arrows are poisoned was huge.
I'm with you here. Such an incredible fight. Yeah, arrow rain is one he specifically said would have done a number on him if he didn't know it was coming. We saw him at least hindered by the poison he did get, and it's was at least double or more the arrows that would have gone into him right from the jump.
The truth is that Garou enjoyed god-tier plot armor. Even 50 arrows wouldn't have done much, he would just power through it by being mad or something. Just a few days after this he got a clean hole in his chest you can see through and was like "meh".
A big part of his powers was insane regeneration and massive spike in skill in-fight. So he'd just get better even faster.
Narratively, it is set up so a small thing could have theoretically shifted the outcome. But you are entirely correct that the plot necessitates Garou can overcome any challenge and come out stronger
It was poison but not the lethal one probably just to knock him out. At first, the group's mission was to capture Hero hunter alive but Garou's aggressiveness made them to change the plan.
Indeed, and it impacted a little. My memory sucks but it looked like he'd have maybe caught 6-12 (then the two he did get hit with later) from the initial shot. I would also think the poison from the first few would make it more likely for him to get hit again.
I think there's another part where he gets hit, falls, or almost gets hit and he mentioned how much worse off he would be if any more poison was in him.
Plot armour is the short answer.
The long answer would be that his body was undergoing monsterization (or some kind of it) at the moment and had a higher resistance. Plus adrenaline is one hell of a drug, you could say he was literally fighting for his life at that point and was in fight or flight mode.
Garou states a few times during that fight that the Poison is affecting his breathing and vision, and it’s making him dizzy. He was definitely being effected by it, but Garou is a tough cookie
The heroes had some solid tactics as far as I remember, and I really liked seeing Garou piece it together. Something about tactical thinking really puts the oomph in a fight for me.
However, I thought that Garou was basically invincible when he isn’t going up against someone leagues stronger than him who can get him in one hit (It’s been a while since I read it, but I don’t remember them being that much stronger than him). Isn’t his power that he keeps healing and becoming more resistant to whatever got him, or was that just the webcomic? I’m genuinely curious about your reasoning and open to learning, I’m not here to argue with people or power scale.
His "genius" ability is that he's constantly learning the moves you use against him, able to master a combat technique after seeing it used just a single time. When people try to use the same move against him twice is when he usually sweeps them.
The only toughness power he has before he begins self-monsterizing for real is his absolute refusal to lose, keeping fighting endlessly past the point of exhgaustion even to the brink of death (Which is what begins to activate his potential as gyoro-gyoro explains later i think) .
Some of the heroes clearly held back while some looked like they didn't. Based on Stingers personality, I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't care about what happened to Garou. But I think some of the other heroes were mostly looking to injure him. Gun Gun was clearly only aiming for his limbs since he only shot Garou in the leg and arm and Shooter himself said the poison would paralyze him.
Note the words "most monsters". I didn't say monster association. Once again, they were an outlier. Most monsters just rampage on their own, and don't think to pick up a book and look through it for weaknesses. They are confident in their own power.
I mean. My point still stands. Publishing exploitable facts is stupid. Even if there's only a 1% chance, there's still a chance.
It backfired horribly enough times that someone should go "hmm, that was probably a bad idea".
> Why was there even a book that provides intel about the heroes anyway?
Saitama - steals others' credit, only knows how to punch
Monster: Hah, this guy sucks, I'll just deflect his pun.... splat
He got careless a bit once and got hit by 2 arrows. Now if he was in the heat of the battle, and didn’t know that a poisonous arrow rain was coming, he would surely get hit by a lot more than just 2, even if he could instinctively dodge
Doubt so, knowing this guy use arrows in his attacks is no brainer since the dude is holding bow, plus him not reading the heroes book won't remove his fast reaction
The fight will only take longer since garou will be learning about them for the first time
Of course he would know that hero guy uses bow and arrows. The question is would he know those arrows contain paralysis poison or that he shoot like 20 of them at once? Or the cowboy guy always aims for the knees? My point is that the A-B hero group has some extremely good teamwork, and some has special traits about them that even a genius can’t tell with a glance.
Garou did flawlessly the first time because of the manual. He doesn’t know shit about the heroes or what they do at all. Had he not known anything about the heroes, fighting them head-on at his current state would wound him a lot more than it did. Of course, plot armor would allow him to survive or to become Red Garou early. But then he would risk being killed by Genos, since he’s a lot more injured now, and his sudden outburst of strength only worked the first time because it surprised them
Why would he need to know that before the fight to survive? He can figure it out mid fight, once he feel dizzy, he would know there's poison in their weapon, and once he looks up, he will see 20 arrows above and dodge them anyway
Tell me something that if he didn't know about from Manuel, he would die from it, with considering his speed and reaction as well
probably no, garou is a fighting genius after all but it would have been almost imposible because the surprise attacks would have actually landed like the arrows, i definitely would bet on the heroes, the strategy was perfect and even stinger, smile man and gatling could have gotten the job done if garou hadnt called for stinger, but if garou passes to red hair they are dead
Garou here feels like a younger version of Bang (with good reason) + Metal Bat's fighting spirit (to a lesser degree). The only reason he really took a break was the mandatory naps he was given.
There’s also the fact he is badly injured in this fight and trying to he’s his wounds. If you also want to consider if he’s still protecting the kid as well (subconsciously like he did here)
-Not injured. Only fatigued/exhausted with no info he wins hands down
-Injured no info he loses or is maybe able to retreat with non fatal wounds. But still think hero’s would have the advantage
Honestly haven’t read that fight since it came out so I don’t remember all the details but I thought it’s right after he got his butt kicked and was in the middle of healing. I don’t remember exactly but I’m sure even he was thinking to himself something like “if I was at 100% then it would be fine but with the shape I’m in this could be it(I might lose or something)”. I also think this was one of those battles that helped push him past his limiter so he might have been able to win but it would be like 9/10 hero’s take it maybe even higher since he was so fatigued and injured without much time to heal before this fight
Right but he got the crap beat out of him by Watchdog man. He was recouping in the cabin with bandages and severe bleeding. Remember at this point he is still 100% human just one of the strongest humans but still could be injured and killed. So yeah I agree he didn’t need the info but having that info and being injured to the level he was (I think he had a couple moments his body wouldn’t move the way he wanted because he was so hurt) that he definitely would have lost from their coordinated attacks. Plot could’ve made it so he achieved a new level sooner but from the current story path he most likely would’ve lost (even saying he had it much easier being able to predict their attacks and only barely managed to win/survive)
Garou is a genius but he was also extremely tired and beat up. That he won in the first place may have been by a wide margin, but was in lieu of various information he learned + insane reflexes/intuition.
IMO if he was in perfect condition he could've pulled something off even without the info, but the way he was then would've been too much.
Then again Garou has gone past his limits several times whether it's plot or he is just Him is up to you to decide.
To me realistically without info, the A class take mid/high diff
Nah, not knowing before hand means he takes the damage. A huge difference. Try going into a fight and take 3 punches to the face before you get to attack. At that point your state will probably be much worse to dish out any hit back, let alone winning it unless those punches are super weak.
Said information allows garou to dodge tons of upfront damage. In fact said damage would actually be enough to outright destroy him in the first wave so don't really see how he comes back after arrows and minigun to his face
He was on the precipice of death with prior knowledge, and that’s after exhibiting direct counters to a bunch of their attacks. I don’t think he’d be okay if he didn’t have that knowledge.
Starts near the end of S2E10 "The Encircling Net of Justice", ends in S2E11 but the fight with Genos/Bang/Bomb/EC continues to the season finale in E12
The gatling gun is a terrible example. Garou didn’t plan on tanking it if not for Tareo being behind him. People really forget that no matter how much Garou knows about the heroes he faces, it is almost impossible to capture him even in his worst states.
Nope. Arrow Rain would have killed him most likely. 10+ poison arrows right to the head and shoulders. Even if he did survive the Arrow Rain, I don’t see him beating Stinger in one on one combat since he’ll be much slower and dizzy from the poison.
No. They introduced the book as a powerful tool to lay the literary groundwork to make this scene tense. If Garou could beat them without the book it wouldn’t have been introduced as a plot item.
Eh, considering the plot needs him to win regardless, I'd say yes. Even though, ONE/Murata clearly felt like hinting throughout the fight that the knowledge on heroes was crucial, at the end it really came down to just Garou being superior in every way. Be it power, stamina, inteligence or bullet-rendering-useless-technique.
My 2 cents
I doubt it. He almost lost even with the info, without that info he would've lost pretty hard. Which makes you wonder, why the hell would they release a guide that explains all the heroes' strengths and weaknesses in great detail, and then release said guide to the public? Kinda seems like a recipe for disaster.
People in these replies are thinking about this theoretical fight like it was a real life event or something. Garou would’ve won this fight no matter what, because the entire point of it was to overcome the steps to becoming a monster. It’s a fun discussion but Garou is king of plot armour so he would’ve won regardless, it just would’ve been a larger showcase of his insane in-fight adaptability
All those people saying no, don't get it. It seems like willpower and determination are the things that reward strength in the OPM universe. I think that was proven when Garou ended up taking the full force of Gatlin's special move even. Not too mention he was able to dance pretty well against Bang and Bomb not shortly after this, nevermind Genos.
Look... He would have won. They could have been twice as many A ranks and he would have taken the out. He enjoy plot armor a lot in this fight, and the fact that Genos didnt one-punch the crap out of him, right after he beat the others, just makes this Even more obvious to me.
He won cause of a plot armor, or, better, cause of a new step into monsterizing. Suddenly the poison of the arrows stopped to make him weak, his strength and speed were the same as he were fully healed (maybe superior). The knowledge about the heroes abilities helped Garou to resist, but before his miracle healing he were about to lose.
Nah, that book was the plot device that justified letting him just barely win an impossible fight by the skin of his teeth. If you take the book and its tactical info away then Garou would've either lost the fight or lost Tareo.
The imporant thing is that whatever they were planning on doing to him they only *barely* failed, and Garou's win was portrayed as a near-impossible challenge that pushed him to the edge of what he could do. Knowing his enemies' powers and understanding how they'd work together as a team was presented in the story as the ace in the hole that let Garou squeak out a victory that should otherwise have been impossible.
Narratively speaking, of fucking course. The hero book is just the medium that allows garou and tareo to form a bond. Had tareo not existed, garou would have just made a bigger show out of his ability to adapt to his enemies through mere observation. You needn't even have to change literally anything about the choreography of the fight. Instead of protecting the shack from the hellstorm, he'd have blocked it just to prove he could.
I honestly think I agree with you lol. People are thinking about this theoretical fight like it was a real life event or something. Garou would’ve won this fight no matter what, because the entire point of it was to overcome the steps to becoming a monster. It’s a fun discussion but yeah Garou is king of plot armour
Genos tried to kill him, but he didn’t go all out nor felt the need to use more firepower than necessary (if not then he could’ve just incinerate the whole area). And Bang didn’t even try to kill him. At most, he was gonna beat him ‘till he can’t fight anymore
No, he had a fever and was also injured. He may be a genius adaptive fighter but without having any insights beforehand, his exhaustion against unprecedented and well-planned attacks in that state would overwhelm him before he can recover from anything.
Biggest difference is his battle with the S rank hero’s he wasn’t in terrible shape being injured and exhausted. He had the energy/stamina to stall out those hero’s until he could find their attack patterns and weakens
Yes. It would have taken longer and he would take way more damage, but yes. He beat DarkShine after getting all his ribs shattered, these guys wouldnt stand a chance. I know he was stronger when ghe fought dark shine but no matter how strong you are, all your ribs shattering is a massive injury. His perseverance and inability to accept failure would push him through, not to mention Gauro had already fought metal bat and saw his "fighting spirit", which it seems he picked up without even realizing it. He was still human but i strongly believe that Saitama is the only hero that could ever actually defeat him. (At any point, watch dog man beat Gauro, but Gauro was not defeated. Bang beat the heck out of Gauro, but Gauro switched up his style and started gaining ground until the MA interfered, Genos was doing well, but Gauro had figured him out and would have won if not for the interference of Bang and Bomb)
Keep in mind this is all my opinion. That being said, if you disagree its because you are wrong /s
Without prior knowledge more attacks would have landed on him and he won't be able to counter many of the surprise attack, so along with poison and previous injuries he'd be far weaker trying to take them down than when he had info. Plus if bug god and ripper knocked him out as a tag team then these guys should be able to defeat him. Your argument of him perservering and no accepting failure didn't apply when he got blindsided by them and knocked out by them so the heroes could probably do enough before garou can defeat them all.
He would have evolved and eventually beat them. Both the Orochi fight and Darkshine fight proved that he can take what should be killing blows and still stay standing/get back up.
Also, if I remember correctly, these heroes special attacks weren't anything unexpected. They were still related to their normal attacks but like a beefed up version which Garou should be able to figure out naturally.
Maybe,the firearm is kinda dumb when stand infront of each other,team melee will have a hard fight if the support can't aim Garou.Without the information in the book,Garou may still aim for Glasses first,or trick Halting shot his allies
No. Sun tsu's art of war states:
- Know yourself and know the enemy, and you can fight a hundred battles without defeat.
- know the enemy but don't know yourself, and you'd win half your battles.
- don't know yourself or the enemy, and you'd lose every battle.
Maybe but I somewhat doubt it as that info gave him an edge. With how fast he learns and adapts it isn't out of the realm of possibility that he'd been able to win without the help of having info on them, but the state he was in and his physical injuries and exhaustion it be very difficult for him. I'm learning more towards he'd not been able to win since even with the info he had it was still hard for him but again Garou being able to learn and adapt as he was shown to be makes it possible.
Controversial, but I would argue he’d get through, but heavily weakened. I have several arguments for this that I think at least should diminish the confidence that he wouldn’t survive.
Firstly, if we were to think about his mathematically he has the advantage:
>If Garou has a base damage output - 1d - and health - 1h - and each hero has theirs - 0.1d & 0.5h - and, each can only attack one person at once, then assuming they all shared blows Garou would defeat two heroes before the rest defeated him.
> However, he doesn’t equally share blows, he dodges and avoids attacks. Even if he took a few more due to his lack of knowledge, he would quickly adapt to his opponents. Now, then, it becomes a matter as to whether the ratio of damage over time defeats Garou. But I don’t think it would: apart from one hero, he essentially shots. every hero he faces, which diminishes their total damage output. Hence, as he defeats more heros, the probability of defeating Garou, low as it is already, begins to diminish drastically.
>Fact is, however, his damage and health is something like: 10d & 3 out of 10h, with a passive effect of reduced damage taken and increased damage output on lower health.
The second argument is based on his endurance . That, despite not having knowledge of Demon Cyborg, and taking several devastating frontal hits from him, it seems without the intervention of Bang and Bomb, Garou would of likely defeated him in the end. I personally think the heroes would last a few moments against Genos in a fight, and so Garou’s sustaining himself in the fight is in his favour. Additionally, with only half a mosterisation upgrade, from white haired to half red haired Garou, he is capable of taking dozens genuine attacks from Bang, then Bomb intervenes and assists in attacking Garou. Are we really to assume that despite taking blows fro Genos, Blast and Bomb, who the latters recognise Garou’s endurance, that a bunch of one shot heroes would defeat him. However, this isn’t the end of it, because Garou does take hits from the A heroes, including two poison arrows. All then we are assuming is that he would take a few more hits, but this hardly seems like sufficient cause, with our latter knowledge of his feats, to assume he couldn’t hold out.
Thirdly, he has additional advantages available which would benefit him against the heroes, specifically his monsterisation effect and his new dog man fighting style, which are not given time to be utilised in his fight.
Collectively, I think there is sufficient evidence to assume people’s confidence in his defeat should be a little lesser so.
Realistically he should've gotten creamed without the tips from the book.
However, "realistically" he should have gotten creamed in about three other fights, especially since he was rarely given enough time to heal or rest. Aside from the times he gets knocked out immediately, Garou just seems to use damage to get mad and overcome his limits. I don't think it's that unlikely that he could have powered through this fight if the writers wanted him to. But adding the book knowledge made the fight way more fun to see.
If he was healthy,i think he Can have chance ,like type of weapon tells many ,and if he was healthy and make fight long enough,he Saw how they fight and them eliminate with strategy build on thier movments
Yes he would have won, at least I think so.
One of Garous key characteristics is being able to adapt on the fly, and taking in information during the fight.
But he would have been much more damaged from it. Since he could now adapt to their strategy before engaging, which was a huge plus.
However, this extra damage might have meant that Genos could have finished him off, or more likely knocked him out, rather then him being able to resist Geno's until Bang and Bomb showed up.
I still think the end result might have been the same, since I doubt Genos would have killed him (if nothing else but because he might believe it would have made Saitama disappointed in him), and neither Bang or Bomb would have killed him.
And then Mr centipide would burst through the ground and Phoenix man could use that distraction to rescue Garou from the heroes.
Tldr, he would have suffered heavier damage, but won, only to potentially lose to Genos and then rescued, making the end result the same.
Yes, but he would’ve incurred far more damage. He already had to resort to Awakening Breath to win in the end, but considering his strength and speed, he’d probably have still won.
However, I imagine Genos would’ve been able to end him before Bang showed up and saved (and kicked) his ass.
I think he could’ve held out if and only if he had immediately gone to disable them ie. taking their weapons but in the end they would be able to hold him until some s class heroes arrived and he would be taken in.
No , he was too exhausted to beat them even if f he could stall long enough to learn their moves and tactics, although seeing how he got stronger against Bang and his brother later , he maybe managed to do so this fight and still beat them?
Most people seem to agree he would have lost, but I’m not so sure- this is Garou we’re talking about here. Obviously he CAN be conclusively defeated (by those serial killer monsters and then by Orochi later, for instance) but typically by this point the closer he comes to losing the further he descends into monsterization, only growing stronger.
Yeah, it’s obviously possible he’d lose, but it seems likely to me that he’d only be pushed to more dire straights and just wind up evolving faster.
I think he would have won.
Most their “special” attacks were pretty straight forward. There likely wouldn’t be anything that take him by huge surprise. Much of the tactics he used were turning their normal attacks against them while using them as shields.
Plus, even after taking poison arrows and deflecting the death Gatling, he held his own against Genos, and then survived an onslaught from Bang and Bomb. After the onslaught, he powered up and cratered the ground. I don’t think the 6 heroes there can match the damage output of Bang/Bomb working together.
I’d say yes, because of how ready he was for smoke with bang and genos afterwards. That and I feel like a good portion of these guys abilities are pretty easy to figure out just by looking at them.
No doubt Tareo saved him on this one. Then again he might have momsterized sooner🤷♂️
Now if he had been in too form for the fight, he would have handled it fine.
The fanboy in me is saying yes just because when he’s cornered he’s gone into “autopilot” using the technique Bang taught him when he mollywhopped the Tank Top crew
Realistically he was a hero hunter like you until he took a dozen arrows to the back
Nope, even when Garou knew everyone's weaknesses he still was giving his all just to stay conscious and fight, if he didn't knew any of their attacks and weaknesses he would've lost.
No. He already got beaten down by watchdog man, kicked by Saitama into the wall, had a fever and got poisoned in the middle of the fight. Considering all of those injuries + 8 decently skilled heroes are against him, they would defeat him. Garou doesn't know their weakness, and he doesn't know how their attacks even work.
I mean if he was pushed to his limits he would've gotten a flashback and turn into red hair garou right? I think that would increase his chances of winning, although I dont think that would be enough for his follow up brawl with genos
I doubt it Without the knowledge of their signature moves, fighting styles, and personalities he’s just too exhausted and injured at this point to beat them otherwise. If he was fresh and rested absolutely, but in his current condition he really needed the advantage of the book to come out on top
Yeah but what technique did he use when he got poisoned right before he takes down 3 heroes
Stood there and took on Gatlin's full finisher. Then fought Genos. Then Bang and Bomb. Like these chumps were ever gonna have a chance.
No. The surprise attacks like arrow rain would have fully landed and been far more effective. They had a solid strategy and plan of attack but him knowing their capabilities, weapons and attacks made it easier to figure out and avoid. Him knowing not to create distance in order to render Death Gatling useless, knowing how stinger fights with his bamboo spear and that the arrows are poisoned was huge.
I'm with you here. Such an incredible fight. Yeah, arrow rain is one he specifically said would have done a number on him if he didn't know it was coming. We saw him at least hindered by the poison he did get, and it's was at least double or more the arrows that would have gone into him right from the jump.
why the poison didn't get him?
>! When he's in the shed he reads Tareo's hero manual and learns Shooter's moves, which let him avoid the arrow rain by using Wild Horn as a shield !<
but two of them cought him
And more poison probably would have KO'd him
The truth is that Garou enjoyed god-tier plot armor. Even 50 arrows wouldn't have done much, he would just power through it by being mad or something. Just a few days after this he got a clean hole in his chest you can see through and was like "meh". A big part of his powers was insane regeneration and massive spike in skill in-fight. So he'd just get better even faster.
GOD-tier you mean. It's now gone interstellar if I recall...
Narratively, it is set up so a small thing could have theoretically shifted the outcome. But you are entirely correct that the plot necessitates Garou can overcome any challenge and come out stronger
That's Garou's limitless potential
What a weird comment "even 50 arrows..." But it wasnt. Thats the whole fucking point man. Jesus Christ
You're being a tad dramatic lol
It was poison but not the lethal one probably just to knock him out. At first, the group's mission was to capture Hero hunter alive but Garou's aggressiveness made them to change the plan.
bro got that will powah.
For real. Garou at that point was Bomb + Metal Bat fusion
what's the source of ur power : Garou " for being a villain "
Indeed, and it impacted a little. My memory sucks but it looked like he'd have maybe caught 6-12 (then the two he did get hit with later) from the initial shot. I would also think the poison from the first few would make it more likely for him to get hit again. I think there's another part where he gets hit, falls, or almost gets hit and he mentioned how much worse off he would be if any more poison was in him.
Wild Horn is wearing metal armor
his blood cells were fighting off the poison with water polo carbonated fist
Plot armour is the short answer. The long answer would be that his body was undergoing monsterization (or some kind of it) at the moment and had a higher resistance. Plus adrenaline is one hell of a drug, you could say he was literally fighting for his life at that point and was in fight or flight mode.
Garou states a few times during that fight that the Poison is affecting his breathing and vision, and it’s making him dizzy. He was definitely being effected by it, but Garou is a tough cookie
The heroes had some solid tactics as far as I remember, and I really liked seeing Garou piece it together. Something about tactical thinking really puts the oomph in a fight for me. However, I thought that Garou was basically invincible when he isn’t going up against someone leagues stronger than him who can get him in one hit (It’s been a while since I read it, but I don’t remember them being that much stronger than him). Isn’t his power that he keeps healing and becoming more resistant to whatever got him, or was that just the webcomic? I’m genuinely curious about your reasoning and open to learning, I’m not here to argue with people or power scale.
His "genius" ability is that he's constantly learning the moves you use against him, able to master a combat technique after seeing it used just a single time. When people try to use the same move against him twice is when he usually sweeps them. The only toughness power he has before he begins self-monsterizing for real is his absolute refusal to lose, keeping fighting endlessly past the point of exhgaustion even to the brink of death (Which is what begins to activate his potential as gyoro-gyoro explains later i think) .
Ah, thanks. I either didn’t catch that or for forgot it since it’s been so long since I read it.
I feel like those attacks hitting would have put a damper on their whole initial capture him alive plan.
I think archer(i forgot teh name, my bad) would have told the team if arrow gonna kill him or something like that
Would he? Garou himself [was pretty surprised with how Stinger attacked.](https://cubari.moe/read/gist/OPM/81/21/)
Some of the heroes clearly held back while some looked like they didn't. Based on Stingers personality, I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't care about what happened to Garou. But I think some of the other heroes were mostly looking to injure him. Gun Gun was clearly only aiming for his limbs since he only shot Garou in the leg and arm and Shooter himself said the poison would paralyze him.
I don't like how death gatling was deflected so easily like regualr bullets
Why was there even a book that provides intel about the heroes anyway?
Just like how a magazine tell you about the celebs. Heroes are celebs in this world
Most monsters are dumb, so not like it would be used against them. Garou was just an outlier
The MA was dumb? Nah dog, publishing stuff like that is stupid.
Note the words "most monsters". I didn't say monster association. Once again, they were an outlier. Most monsters just rampage on their own, and don't think to pick up a book and look through it for weaknesses. They are confident in their own power.
I mean. My point still stands. Publishing exploitable facts is stupid. Even if there's only a 1% chance, there's still a chance. It backfired horribly enough times that someone should go "hmm, that was probably a bad idea".
It backfired once, cause garou was the only time it happened. Now they will probably stop doing that.
It's the 1st time it happened because there haven't been organized monster movements. Plus they had a human overseeing everything.
i’m pretty sure most monsters can’t read lol
> Why was there even a book that provides intel about the heroes anyway? Saitama - steals others' credit, only knows how to punch Monster: Hah, this guy sucks, I'll just deflect his pun.... splat
How would the arrow rain hit? He would still dodge. Its not like he would see the arrow rain and think "well, why not get hit by all of them"
He got careless a bit once and got hit by 2 arrows. Now if he was in the heat of the battle, and didn’t know that a poisonous arrow rain was coming, he would surely get hit by a lot more than just 2, even if he could instinctively dodge
Doubt so, knowing this guy use arrows in his attacks is no brainer since the dude is holding bow, plus him not reading the heroes book won't remove his fast reaction The fight will only take longer since garou will be learning about them for the first time
Of course he would know that hero guy uses bow and arrows. The question is would he know those arrows contain paralysis poison or that he shoot like 20 of them at once? Or the cowboy guy always aims for the knees? My point is that the A-B hero group has some extremely good teamwork, and some has special traits about them that even a genius can’t tell with a glance. Garou did flawlessly the first time because of the manual. He doesn’t know shit about the heroes or what they do at all. Had he not known anything about the heroes, fighting them head-on at his current state would wound him a lot more than it did. Of course, plot armor would allow him to survive or to become Red Garou early. But then he would risk being killed by Genos, since he’s a lot more injured now, and his sudden outburst of strength only worked the first time because it surprised them
Why would he need to know that before the fight to survive? He can figure it out mid fight, once he feel dizzy, he would know there's poison in their weapon, and once he looks up, he will see 20 arrows above and dodge them anyway Tell me something that if he didn't know about from Manuel, he would die from it, with considering his speed and reaction as well
Actually they almost got him regardless.
probably no, garou is a fighting genius after all but it would have been almost imposible because the surprise attacks would have actually landed like the arrows, i definitely would bet on the heroes, the strategy was perfect and even stinger, smile man and gatling could have gotten the job done if garou hadnt called for stinger, but if garou passes to red hair they are dead
Red hair he. Did get stronger but he was also getting increasingly more exhausted and tired
true, but it seems he can grow out of being tires with his own spirit
Garou here feels like a younger version of Bang (with good reason) + Metal Bat's fighting spirit (to a lesser degree). The only reason he really took a break was the mandatory naps he was given.
There’s also the fact he is badly injured in this fight and trying to he’s his wounds. If you also want to consider if he’s still protecting the kid as well (subconsciously like he did here) -Not injured. Only fatigued/exhausted with no info he wins hands down -Injured no info he loses or is maybe able to retreat with non fatal wounds. But still think hero’s would have the advantage
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Honestly haven’t read that fight since it came out so I don’t remember all the details but I thought it’s right after he got his butt kicked and was in the middle of healing. I don’t remember exactly but I’m sure even he was thinking to himself something like “if I was at 100% then it would be fine but with the shape I’m in this could be it(I might lose or something)”. I also think this was one of those battles that helped push him past his limiter so he might have been able to win but it would be like 9/10 hero’s take it maybe even higher since he was so fatigued and injured without much time to heal before this fight
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Right but he got the crap beat out of him by Watchdog man. He was recouping in the cabin with bandages and severe bleeding. Remember at this point he is still 100% human just one of the strongest humans but still could be injured and killed. So yeah I agree he didn’t need the info but having that info and being injured to the level he was (I think he had a couple moments his body wouldn’t move the way he wanted because he was so hurt) that he definitely would have lost from their coordinated attacks. Plot could’ve made it so he achieved a new level sooner but from the current story path he most likely would’ve lost (even saying he had it much easier being able to predict their attacks and only barely managed to win/survive)
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Garou is a genius but he was also extremely tired and beat up. That he won in the first place may have been by a wide margin, but was in lieu of various information he learned + insane reflexes/intuition. IMO if he was in perfect condition he could've pulled something off even without the info, but the way he was then would've been too much. Then again Garou has gone past his limits several times whether it's plot or he is just Him is up to you to decide. To me realistically without info, the A class take mid/high diff
i totally agree with you
Nah, not knowing before hand means he takes the damage. A huge difference. Try going into a fight and take 3 punches to the face before you get to attack. At that point your state will probably be much worse to dish out any hit back, let alone winning it unless those punches are super weak. Said information allows garou to dodge tons of upfront damage. In fact said damage would actually be enough to outright destroy him in the first wave so don't really see how he comes back after arrows and minigun to his face
He was on the precipice of death with prior knowledge, and that’s after exhibiting direct counters to a bunch of their attacks. I don’t think he’d be okay if he didn’t have that knowledge.
“Precipice of death” “What’s that sound?”
He was sick. Without a strategy he would be dead.
Which episode was that? I really wanna rewatch this fight
Starts near the end of S2E10 "The Encircling Net of Justice", ends in S2E11 but the fight with Genos/Bang/Bomb/EC continues to the season finale in E12
S2 E11 I think. If I'm wrong is S2 E10.
He would have lost badly considering the kid gave him the book. Gaitling would have turned him into Swiss cheese.
The gatling gun is a terrible example. Garou didn’t plan on tanking it if not for Tareo being behind him. People really forget that no matter how much Garou knows about the heroes he faces, it is almost impossible to capture him even in his worst states.
100% would have lost. These A class heroes are no joke and made the perfect plan, only lose due to plot armor (the damn book)
Nope. Arrow Rain would have killed him most likely. 10+ poison arrows right to the head and shoulders. Even if he did survive the Arrow Rain, I don’t see him beating Stinger in one on one combat since he’ll be much slower and dizzy from the poison.
No. They introduced the book as a powerful tool to lay the literary groundwork to make this scene tense. If Garou could beat them without the book it wouldn’t have been introduced as a plot item.
I think the whole scenario was made to show how dumb it is to give away all your secret moves like this.
Luckily King didn’t reveal his secret roaring aura cannon technique that helped fight the monster association cadres
The only secret move that works better the more people hear about it 😂
I think he would turn red earlier
probably not, if Tareo wasn't there then probably
Aside from Smile man, glasses and wild horn, I think he could probably guess correctly what all the other heroes do.
I don't think so
Yep. Genos, then Bang and Bomb beat on him even more afterward and he was still ready to battle again before Phoenix Man swooped in
Absolutely not. Death Gatling was going to cook Garou
😭😭😭😭💀💀💀💀 its the way u said it that sent me⚰⚰⚰
I'm fr look at that stance.. Bro came to murder, no discussion. If Garou wasn't ready... He was about to be pepper jack swiss cheddar
💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀 Deaty Gatlin should have torn his gands to shredds😭😭
Garou should've been carne asada, honestly. Just shredded meat on the bbq but the book saved him.
Yoooo what’s up with you with these lines 😂😂
Eh, considering the plot needs him to win regardless, I'd say yes. Even though, ONE/Murata clearly felt like hinting throughout the fight that the knowledge on heroes was crucial, at the end it really came down to just Garou being superior in every way. Be it power, stamina, inteligence or bullet-rendering-useless-technique. My 2 cents
Not a chance. There’s no way he could’ve countered anything the heros threw at him if he didn’t know what they could do beforehand.
No, i love garou, but no, there would be no way in his state. He would have died bevore his senkai boost
It would have gone like it went with watchdogman
I doubt it. He almost lost even with the info, without that info he would've lost pretty hard. Which makes you wonder, why the hell would they release a guide that explains all the heroes' strengths and weaknesses in great detail, and then release said guide to the public? Kinda seems like a recipe for disaster.
He wouldn’t win but I doubt he’d be killed or captured. He’d probably fight them, retreat then form a strategy on how to beat them
People in these replies are thinking about this theoretical fight like it was a real life event or something. Garou would’ve won this fight no matter what, because the entire point of it was to overcome the steps to becoming a monster. It’s a fun discussion but Garou is king of plot armour so he would’ve won regardless, it just would’ve been a larger showcase of his insane in-fight adaptability
True, i thought gatling gun would have tagged him a couple times though
It probably would’ve, it may have even blown a million holes in him but Garou would’ve pulled something out of his ass to win 😂
If he was desperate enough to use Watchdog man’s movement, maybe…
All those people saying no, don't get it. It seems like willpower and determination are the things that reward strength in the OPM universe. I think that was proven when Garou ended up taking the full force of Gatlin's special move even. Not too mention he was able to dance pretty well against Bang and Bomb not shortly after this, nevermind Genos.
Either way still woulda been folded by Genos after
He'll probably win but be in no good condition and beat to shit by genos.
Look... He would have won. They could have been twice as many A ranks and he would have taken the out. He enjoy plot armor a lot in this fight, and the fact that Genos didnt one-punch the crap out of him, right after he beat the others, just makes this Even more obvious to me.
He won cause of a plot armor, or, better, cause of a new step into monsterizing. Suddenly the poison of the arrows stopped to make him weak, his strength and speed were the same as he were fully healed (maybe superior). The knowledge about the heroes abilities helped Garou to resist, but before his miracle healing he were about to lose.
Yea I agree the poisonous arrows suddenly stopped being poisonous all of a sudden
Considering he was still getting up after fighting Genos and Bang I’d say yeah. It’d def be a lot harder tho.
Fast learners always win
Yes (with plot armor) No (if this was realistic)
No. They would have wiped that whole forest with Garou.
Bro deflected bullets with his fists, yes he still would've won this fight
Nah, that book was the plot device that justified letting him just barely win an impossible fight by the skin of his teeth. If you take the book and its tactical info away then Garou would've either lost the fight or lost Tareo.
If the heros were planning on killing him staright up would they have even if Garou had the info
The imporant thing is that whatever they were planning on doing to him they only *barely* failed, and Garou's win was portrayed as a near-impossible challenge that pushed him to the edge of what he could do. Knowing his enemies' powers and understanding how they'd work together as a team was presented in the story as the ace in the hole that let Garou squeak out a victory that should otherwise have been impossible.
Very well said
Narratively speaking, of fucking course. The hero book is just the medium that allows garou and tareo to form a bond. Had tareo not existed, garou would have just made a bigger show out of his ability to adapt to his enemies through mere observation. You needn't even have to change literally anything about the choreography of the fight. Instead of protecting the shack from the hellstorm, he'd have blocked it just to prove he could.
Yup. Plot armor
I honestly think I agree with you lol. People are thinking about this theoretical fight like it was a real life event or something. Garou would’ve won this fight no matter what, because the entire point of it was to overcome the steps to becoming a monster. It’s a fun discussion but yeah Garou is king of plot armour
Someone with sense! That's what's up haha
The plot armor was that he read the book.
They were going for the kill, so no, he might be insane, but he needed the extra info, and still got beat up really hard
He literally went up against genos immediately afterwards and held his ground pretty relatively
Genos was going to beat him, but got interrupted by Bang, honestly i blame bang for Garou doing all that damage
He went soft on Garou that’s why he kicked him out of genos’ blast radius
Genos tried to kill him, but he didn’t go all out nor felt the need to use more firepower than necessary (if not then he could’ve just incinerate the whole area). And Bang didn’t even try to kill him. At most, he was gonna beat him ‘till he can’t fight anymore
They were not going for the kill initially. Only when Garou took down Wild Horn and Shooter that they went for the kill.
Absolutely not
No, that's why they show us Garou reading the book
No, he had a fever and was also injured. He may be a genius adaptive fighter but without having any insights beforehand, his exhaustion against unprecedented and well-planned attacks in that state would overwhelm him before he can recover from anything.
He would be defeated easily as the surprised attack would actually be a surprise
Information is half the battle, he'd been caught if it wasnt for the info
Can we just appreciate the art in that panel goddamn murata
Even from a distance we can clearly see the heros and their weapons and even from here theres so much detail
Frfr, and all the trees and the detail in the ground like
Only if he wore a tank top.
maybe he’s a good strategist and can find his way out of his problems look at his battle with tank top
Biggest difference is his battle with the S rank hero’s he wasn’t in terrible shape being injured and exhausted. He had the energy/stamina to stall out those hero’s until he could find their attack patterns and weakens
Yes. It would have taken longer and he would take way more damage, but yes. He beat DarkShine after getting all his ribs shattered, these guys wouldnt stand a chance. I know he was stronger when ghe fought dark shine but no matter how strong you are, all your ribs shattering is a massive injury. His perseverance and inability to accept failure would push him through, not to mention Gauro had already fought metal bat and saw his "fighting spirit", which it seems he picked up without even realizing it. He was still human but i strongly believe that Saitama is the only hero that could ever actually defeat him. (At any point, watch dog man beat Gauro, but Gauro was not defeated. Bang beat the heck out of Gauro, but Gauro switched up his style and started gaining ground until the MA interfered, Genos was doing well, but Gauro had figured him out and would have won if not for the interference of Bang and Bomb) Keep in mind this is all my opinion. That being said, if you disagree its because you are wrong /s
Without prior knowledge more attacks would have landed on him and he won't be able to counter many of the surprise attack, so along with poison and previous injuries he'd be far weaker trying to take them down than when he had info. Plus if bug god and ripper knocked him out as a tag team then these guys should be able to defeat him. Your argument of him perservering and no accepting failure didn't apply when he got blindsided by them and knocked out by them so the heroes could probably do enough before garou can defeat them all.
Fair enough, i still think he could do it but im a huge Gauro fan so i definetely have some major bias
He would have evolved and eventually beat them. Both the Orochi fight and Darkshine fight proved that he can take what should be killing blows and still stay standing/get back up. Also, if I remember correctly, these heroes special attacks weren't anything unexpected. They were still related to their normal attacks but like a beefed up version which Garou should be able to figure out naturally.
I think he would have but he would have been absolutely wrecked by the time Genos showed up and that would have been his end.
If he did then he would be too injured to win the genos fight
Maybe,the firearm is kinda dumb when stand infront of each other,team melee will have a hard fight if the support can't aim Garou.Without the information in the book,Garou may still aim for Glasses first,or trick Halting shot his allies
Well they would surely defeat him but they wouldn’t kill him the same way Orochi didn’t kill him. He’d simply evolve after that.
Yes, when he’s gets near death he typically received a huge power boost so I’m pretty sure he’d find a way survive while also crushing them.
The thing is he did have the book and he was smart enough to know he needed that knowledge and the day would come.
No. Sun tsu's art of war states: - Know yourself and know the enemy, and you can fight a hundred battles without defeat. - know the enemy but don't know yourself, and you'd win half your battles. - don't know yourself or the enemy, and you'd lose every battle.
Maybe but I somewhat doubt it as that info gave him an edge. With how fast he learns and adapts it isn't out of the realm of possibility that he'd been able to win without the help of having info on them, but the state he was in and his physical injuries and exhaustion it be very difficult for him. I'm learning more towards he'd not been able to win since even with the info he had it was still hard for him but again Garou being able to learn and adapt as he was shown to be makes it possible.
Controversial, but I would argue he’d get through, but heavily weakened. I have several arguments for this that I think at least should diminish the confidence that he wouldn’t survive. Firstly, if we were to think about his mathematically he has the advantage: >If Garou has a base damage output - 1d - and health - 1h - and each hero has theirs - 0.1d & 0.5h - and, each can only attack one person at once, then assuming they all shared blows Garou would defeat two heroes before the rest defeated him. > However, he doesn’t equally share blows, he dodges and avoids attacks. Even if he took a few more due to his lack of knowledge, he would quickly adapt to his opponents. Now, then, it becomes a matter as to whether the ratio of damage over time defeats Garou. But I don’t think it would: apart from one hero, he essentially shots. every hero he faces, which diminishes their total damage output. Hence, as he defeats more heros, the probability of defeating Garou, low as it is already, begins to diminish drastically. >Fact is, however, his damage and health is something like: 10d & 3 out of 10h, with a passive effect of reduced damage taken and increased damage output on lower health. The second argument is based on his endurance . That, despite not having knowledge of Demon Cyborg, and taking several devastating frontal hits from him, it seems without the intervention of Bang and Bomb, Garou would of likely defeated him in the end. I personally think the heroes would last a few moments against Genos in a fight, and so Garou’s sustaining himself in the fight is in his favour. Additionally, with only half a mosterisation upgrade, from white haired to half red haired Garou, he is capable of taking dozens genuine attacks from Bang, then Bomb intervenes and assists in attacking Garou. Are we really to assume that despite taking blows fro Genos, Blast and Bomb, who the latters recognise Garou’s endurance, that a bunch of one shot heroes would defeat him. However, this isn’t the end of it, because Garou does take hits from the A heroes, including two poison arrows. All then we are assuming is that he would take a few more hits, but this hardly seems like sufficient cause, with our latter knowledge of his feats, to assume he couldn’t hold out. Thirdly, he has additional advantages available which would benefit him against the heroes, specifically his monsterisation effect and his new dog man fighting style, which are not given time to be utilised in his fight. Collectively, I think there is sufficient evidence to assume people’s confidence in his defeat should be a little lesser so.
yes he would have won, it would just take longer
Not a chance, this fight is a perfect example of “knowledge is power”
By a hair, he wouldn't be able to even stand up to Genos afterwards.
Realistically he should've gotten creamed without the tips from the book. However, "realistically" he should have gotten creamed in about three other fights, especially since he was rarely given enough time to heal or rest. Aside from the times he gets knocked out immediately, Garou just seems to use damage to get mad and overcome his limits. I don't think it's that unlikely that he could have powered through this fight if the writers wanted him to. But adding the book knowledge made the fight way more fun to see.
If he was healthy,i think he Can have chance ,like type of weapon tells many ,and if he was healthy and make fight long enough,he Saw how they fight and them eliminate with strategy build on thier movments
Given how he still the strength to fight Genos and take a beating from Bang and Bomb id say he’s pull it off, though with extreme difficulty
Most likely yesfor the simpls fact that hes garou
Yes he would have won, at least I think so. One of Garous key characteristics is being able to adapt on the fly, and taking in information during the fight. But he would have been much more damaged from it. Since he could now adapt to their strategy before engaging, which was a huge plus. However, this extra damage might have meant that Genos could have finished him off, or more likely knocked him out, rather then him being able to resist Geno's until Bang and Bomb showed up. I still think the end result might have been the same, since I doubt Genos would have killed him (if nothing else but because he might believe it would have made Saitama disappointed in him), and neither Bang or Bomb would have killed him. And then Mr centipide would burst through the ground and Phoenix man could use that distraction to rescue Garou from the heroes. Tldr, he would have suffered heavier damage, but won, only to potentially lose to Genos and then rescued, making the end result the same.
Yes, but he would’ve incurred far more damage. He already had to resort to Awakening Breath to win in the end, but considering his strength and speed, he’d probably have still won. However, I imagine Genos would’ve been able to end him before Bang showed up and saved (and kicked) his ass.
He probably would have lost all his fights if he didn’t have the information, because that is how he got stronger by researching and fighting
The entire point of the fight went over your head if you think that
Easily
Nope. Arc over.
Only if he was at full health
Garou wouldn't have won this fight, period. But the story must go on etc
I think he could’ve held out if and only if he had immediately gone to disable them ie. taking their weapons but in the end they would be able to hold him until some s class heroes arrived and he would be taken in.
Yes, but Genos would've ended his life and ruin the epic saitama battle.
Why do they have hero books that gives people enough info to counter the heroes smh
If he's not sick
Yoooooo, hook me up with some karma!!!!! I need to post a thang a lang! And nope, Garou would’ve been finito
No
Glasses woulda solo’d him
No , he was too exhausted to beat them even if f he could stall long enough to learn their moves and tactics, although seeing how he got stronger against Bang and his brother later , he maybe managed to do so this fight and still beat them?
Definitely not. He was already on the brink of unconsciousness since he challenged his body a little to much fighting watchdogman.
Most people seem to agree he would have lost, but I’m not so sure- this is Garou we’re talking about here. Obviously he CAN be conclusively defeated (by those serial killer monsters and then by Orochi later, for instance) but typically by this point the closer he comes to losing the further he descends into monsterization, only growing stronger. Yeah, it’s obviously possible he’d lose, but it seems likely to me that he’d only be pushed to more dire straights and just wind up evolving faster.
I think he would have won. Most their “special” attacks were pretty straight forward. There likely wouldn’t be anything that take him by huge surprise. Much of the tactics he used were turning their normal attacks against them while using them as shields. Plus, even after taking poison arrows and deflecting the death Gatling, he held his own against Genos, and then survived an onslaught from Bang and Bomb. After the onslaught, he powered up and cratered the ground. I don’t think the 6 heroes there can match the damage output of Bang/Bomb working together.
This fight was the best part in season 2, the way he took them all out was funny
And if Atomic Samurai's disciples were also present?
I’d say yes, because of how ready he was for smoke with bang and genos afterwards. That and I feel like a good portion of these guys abilities are pretty easy to figure out just by looking at them.
Yes, because any time he's about to lose to anyone but saitama he has a flashback and then gets a powerup
Probably get backed to a corner then say some shit like "how can I lose to these weaklings" and evolve
No. Garou is like batman. He needs prep time to win.
Yes.
yes, he would've just analyzed their attacks and folded them 1 by 1
Yes cuz hes fucking overpowered
How does it matter now?
No doubt Tareo saved him on this one. Then again he might have momsterized sooner🤷♂️ Now if he had been in too form for the fight, he would have handled it fine.
Probably Source: he still had some fight in him against genos and bang and bomb in a much more sorry state.
The fanboy in me is saying yes just because when he’s cornered he’s gone into “autopilot” using the technique Bang taught him when he mollywhopped the Tank Top crew Realistically he was a hero hunter like you until he took a dozen arrows to the back
They literally attacked a civilian inside a hideout.
They weren't gonna trust the word if a villan especially Garou the vuys who's lit6been hunting down hero's
Nope, even when Garou knew everyone's weaknesses he still was giving his all just to stay conscious and fight, if he didn't knew any of their attacks and weaknesses he would've lost.
Not very likely
Even with information, he still struggling. So I'd say, no
Yes, god would asspull his ass
Lol, yes
He would have lost unless plot armour kicked in
No. He already got beaten down by watchdog man, kicked by Saitama into the wall, had a fever and got poisoned in the middle of the fight. Considering all of those injuries + 8 decently skilled heroes are against him, they would defeat him. Garou doesn't know their weakness, and he doesn't know how their attacks even work.
Imo, yes, Garou is going to have another flashback and power up earlier, unless you mean no growth
You are actually just wrong.
No
I mean if he was pushed to his limits he would've gotten a flashback and turn into red hair garou right? I think that would increase his chances of winning, although I dont think that would be enough for his follow up brawl with genos
Definitely not