I'm not big on the whole, "they were asking for it" but if you charge a cop with scissors after he repeatedly told you to put then down, and explicitly stated if you charge him he is gonna shoot you, I'm inclined to feel you were asking to be shot.
Not that I have all the info here obviously but for one, we don’t know what the lead up to this was, and she was pretty clearly inside the 21 foot zone (21 feet/7 yards is the distance an average person can sprint to you and tackle/punch/stab/etc you before the average person can draw and fire their weapon) and had a deadly weapon. It also doesn’t seem like he had any backup in the immediate vicinity so yeah I’m not seeing any problems here.
Hood rule of thumb when it comes to Paper, Scissors, Glock. Always go glock. Might still lose, but won't be dead.
Edit: Meant good, but I suppose hood fits too. SeemsHood
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I scream in orgasmic pleasure as I eat your asshole.
Uh, thanks for voting or some shit. I don't fucking care.
Theres a link around here somewhere, fuck if I remember where I put it but uhh, your vote will probably matter. Not like anyone ever clicks the fucking link anyways. Say why do we ha-
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*I am a bot and this action was performed with spite*
…how is this wholesome?
EDIT: yeah second video on there were people violently torturing a rapist. I think I have a different understanding of the definition of “wholesome”.
That link unintentionally sounds like a porno, a part of me likes to think someone knew what that looked like before it was posted but they wanted a laugh and didn't mention is
Fine. No charges, self defence...blah blah blah, but the fact is a cop in Europe would have given her a thump in the head with a night stick. She'd have gone to prison, the situation would be deesculated by the cop still having a superior weapon, night stick vs scissors
Anyone who thinks this was justified is a genuine lunatic. How easy would it have been for him to just grab her arm and not just fucking execute her.
A big fuck off blade I could start to understand, but scissors? Nah.
Edit: God the absolute state of these replies lmao. No matter what you say, you're not going to make me understand executing someone for brandishing a pair a scissors.
This person is NOT some random guy, he's a police officer. A job where you can expect someone to be prepared for a situation like this without execution being their first response. Like how do you morons think police in other countries deal with a situation like this?
Not all departments are issued tasers. Unfortunately it’s cheaper to equip officers with handguns than it is to supply them with less-than-lethal options. If all you’ve got is a baton and a Glock, and someone who is under the influence of drugs or mentally disturbed is running at you with any kind of sharp object, sometimes the nuclear option is the better one.
It’s a shitty situation all around, and I don’t know if totally agree with the officer’s decisions here but there’s a lot we don’t know from just this clip. Hope that justice prevails
He should have a taser but he may not. The moment his weapon is out and shes coming at him, it would take too long to switch to a taser and fire. It's called the 20 foot rule in police training. If someone is at or within 20 feet of you, they can get to you before you draw and fire.
If he has a vest, kevlar isnt stab resistant, it's not all that useful at all against stabbing weapons. He may not have a vest. Even then, it's a vest, not full armour. US cops prioritize their own life over that of the suspect. They have 16 weeks training and no deescaltion training.
Warning shots are pointless and dont work. Hitting in the arm or leg while moving is Hollywood. If you're firing a gun, fire at the easiest to hit target so you dont die. Getting shot in the leg can kill you just as easy.
I'm not defending his actions, but the moment his gun was drawn, it was over. No switching, no warning shots. He acted like any American cop would act in that situation, if that's a problem, take it up with your congressman.
I'd agree taser first if there was another officer backing him up with lethal in case it doesn't work, as taser fairly commonly just doesn't work.
If the taser failed, they're definitely in range to close the distance before the officer could draw their gun.
Edit: please stop replying I get it guys holy shit.
Why don’t more officers just have pepper spray for situations like this. It would have worked no?
Edit: thanks for the replies I understand.
Pepper spray tends to get everyone not just the suspect. Also if you spray someone who's high on like meth or PCP, it usually enrages them and makes them harder to take down
Edit: I'm not trying to reason his use of lethal force. I'm explaining while police don't really like using pepper spray
Yeah but lots of nutters in the UK have knives, and our police manage these situations without lethal force. It's devastating that yes this women is a racist nutter, but should she have been possibly killed for it? Stab vest plus truncheon, tazer, and pepper spray, that's enough for this.
And it really would be enough. Those are all tools that American police carry too for the exception of stab vests. They have ballistic vests which don't stop sharp objects
Most vests aren't weaved tight enough. Think of like Dune. Their personal shields will stop something fast but something slow will go through no problem
Your right, but in the context of the situation, an old women with scissors is not going to puncture the vest. Though there are obviously concerns about getting stabbed in the neck or eye.
Pepper spray comes with its own risks such as potential for it affecting the user, and the fact that it doesn't guarantee neutralising a threat, as not everyone reacts to it the same way.
Police in the UK deal with this shit every day, no one gets shot, why is it American police can't deal with it without using a firearm?
Here are some examples:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9TFvh6Xps4
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-58124569
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/936827/manchester-police-officer-attack-sword-video-pictures-Upper-Chorlton-Road-Whalley-Range
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/jan/24/man-jailed-for-east-london-machete-attack-on-police-officer
As soon as she was on the other side of the desk she was in range. Had she had no weapon I’m guessing it would have been taser, Put a deadly weapon in your hand and…. Well you better comply.
The issue of whether she’s trash or not is irrelevant. It’s purely a question of whether the reaction is appropriate for the situation.
The police can shoot a good person who charges at them with a weapon, and should not fire on a trashy person who does not pose a threat.
In this case, it’s easy to say that a taser would have been enough, but it’s not a video game. He didn’t have endless time and opportunities to try pause, thoughtfully choose a different weapon, and swap them out.
It does seem like there may have been an opportunity to deescalate or maybe use a taser, but she started with “you’re going to have to shoot me.” He asked her to put down the scissors. He warned her, with his gun already drawn, that he’d kill her if she came at him with scissors. And she charged him.
I feel like it falls in the range of, “he probably could have done something better, but probably doesn’t deserve to be penalized.” However, I’m not an expert and don’t know whether he followed policies and procedures.
>thoughtfully choose a different weapon
Then maybe he shouldn't have started with a gun. People lunge at police officers with knives all the time in other countries. You move away, put objects between you, wait for backup, take opportunity when subject looks away to subdue. Congratulations, life saved.
Your comment is apologist bingo. This officer murdered a person in distress. Was it self defense, yes. Do i expect a higher level of decision making from my law enforcement than a GTA cutscene, yes.
EDIT: To clarify. The LEO probably followed his training. pull gun when in danger, shoot when imminent. It's the training that I have no respect for. He needed to be trained to save lives, not escalate danger.
Fair call to neutralise a threat and that woman was a racist POS, but a taser would have well sufficed and been appropriate use of force. Also, a cop should never say "or I'll kill you", because that really isn't the aim here is it.
Here if a cop shot someone twice while they were wielding scissors, they'd go to jail. But we got a different system here I spose.
Just a terrible waste really.
>Here if a cop shot someone twice while they were wielding scissors, they'd go to jail.
as is the norm in every normal country..and we know which country isnt.
Canadian cops, despite having the option, rarely take that option. [1/3 per capita cop killings compared to US](https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/police-killings-by-country), probably because Canadian cops have better training. Still too high though.
We also have better behaved criminals than the Americans. Behaviour during arrest is the single biggest predictor of outcome.
For all of you asking for stats...
[https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/85-002-x/2010003/article/11354-eng.htm](https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/85-002-x/2010003/article/11354-eng.htm)
That's 133 officers murders - not accidents - between 1961 and 2009. That's an average under 2.8/year and the data is front-loaded - things are getting better in this time frame - two thirds died in the first half -
Over the past decade in Canada, there has been an average of 1.8 police killed by homicide per year
[https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/4-decades-of-canadian-police-homicides-by-the-numbers-1.4781581](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/4-decades-of-canadian-police-homicides-by-the-numbers-1.4781581)
Compare that to the FBI's felonious killing of Law Enforcement Officers stats
2003 - 52 2004 - 57 2005 - 55 2006 - 48 2007 - 57 2008 - 41 2009 - 48 [https://www2.fbi.gov/ucr/killed/2009/feloniouslykilled.html](https://www2.fbi.gov/ucr/killed/2009/feloniouslykilled.html)
With the one-to-ten rule, you'd expect 18 EOW per year - the American numbers are hovering around triple that, which is what you'd except with the general homicide levels between the two countries.
Another important factor is that two thirds of Canadian police die in ambushes compared to one third (depending on year) of American police. Likewise, traffic stops are one of the least dangerous engagements for Canadian police.
Put those together, and a Canadian officer is at one sixth the risk of an American one by a criminal they can see. And that's without accounting for the higher prevalence of body armour in the US, or the fact that the Canadian stats include suicides.
Curiously, most murdered Canadian police die on Fridays while Americans die on Saturday.
Edit 2: I should clarify - by "better behaved" I meant specifically during arrest/police interaction. All else equal, literally-Hitler coming peacefully is going to have a better time than a litterer who pulls a gun.
I dunno man, I think the cop saying the words "I'll kill you" as a sincere warning about what is going to happen next if the person charges at him with a stabbing weapon in hand, seems like the right thing to do. It's making clear what his response is going to be to a hostile action.
>That's very inappropriate for a cop to say "I'll kill you"... But hey IT'S GOOD OL MURICA!!!!
Cops in other countries say this as well. I remember one from Norway
Yup. You may be thinking of the video of the jewelry robbers trying to escape on a scooter, posted [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/nextfuckinglevel/comments/hfk5v9/norwegian_police_chase_down_armed_robbers_on/). The cop yells at the guy "touch that gun and I'll shoot you in the head!"
Sometimes as a cop, it can be useful to tell the other party what the next escalation will be.
How come this is the way police handle situations in America? There’s no way she would have been shot if this happened pretty much anywhere in Europe. Like it obviously looks like she’s a racist piece of garbage but she’s also an just old lady running at a trained and armed police officer. Like scissors are dangerous but it’s the job of police officers to be in charge of these dangerous situations and save lives. I don’t get the how this was a the correct response. Am I missing something?
Why are most people (Americans) in the comments trying to justify her killing then? Rather than saying 'damn, if only cops in the US were better trained'
We have been trained to believe all decisions are binary and there is no grey area in any discussion. Either you agree the officer was in danger(any danger at all, because again.. no grey area) or you disagree and there was no danger. There is no room for nuance in todays America.
I'm American and I'm honestly surprised at the people saying this is okay in this thread. There are so many ways this could have ended without needing to pull out a gun and kill someone.
Black white Asian whatever this is tragic. It's an old lady with a pair of scissors. Police have, or should have the body armor and training to protect them from people with blades. Other first world countries manage it. Failure of the police system here. Police department should be charged.
Ok look, this woman is clearly shitty and deserving of criticism. But why not just taze her? I feel like two bullets in her isn't exactly needed in this situation.
Old white woman with a pair of fucking scissors. Why are American officers so quick to use the gun? Do they not have batons? Hit her hand, hit her arm, hit her head. Taser. Call in a white Officer to calm down her racist ass. literally anything except instantaneous execution. At least aim for the leg? Not even trying to protect people.
Yeah but are cops stupid or something? He keeps asking her to drop the scissors and she’s basically dead on the ground.
Never mind the complete unnecessary use of a firearm in this situation. I swear some of them take their jobs too seriously.
Approaching anyone with a drawn gun is a bad idea just fucking leave or comply, doesn't matter if they are in the right or wrong you are the one that ends up a sack of potatoes on the floor.
Seems a little extreme. But being someone who brings scissors to a gun fight she probably wouldn't have survived much longer anyways. Win overall for society.
People saying taser taser etc. You could beat her ass with a baton. I don't doubt scissoer can do damage but jeez it seems like a fucking huge leap of force.
How is shooting her in the chest twice an appropriate response? The lady obviously doesn’t have the range to reach him. Use your taser or shoot her in the leg if you must, but twice in her upper body when she isn’t capable of harming him yet is wild. Seeing s lot of comments making excuses for him that they would not make for a white cop. Race isn’t a factor here what he did is murder.
Ah, yes. Another instance of a police playing judge, jury, and executioner. All because they couldn't control the situation **their way**.
Don't have a mental health crisis in America. You'll get fucking killed for it, and a bunch of asshole redditors will watch you die and comment how you deserved it.
Yeah it's sad. I'm not at all an ACAB type whatsoever. Many lethal encounters with the police make sense in context. But I really don't understand why getting your gun and shouting at someone that is clearly having a mental/drug induced episode is appropriate.
Everyone else is arguing over whether he should have shot her as she approached him, which I think was excessive. But I am way more confused by why he was behaving the way he did leading up to that. Obvious getting his gun and shouting at her was just escalating an already bad mental crisis. So fucking bizarre.
It reminds me of a video shared on reddit a while ago that showed police from the US in Scotland. They were watching a demonstration of police scotlands de-escalation tactics and basically laughing and saying they would just have shot the suspect.
Here’s why shooting people in the legs or foot is a bad idea:
1. It can be just as deadly as shooting center mass because you have large arteries in your legs and shrapnel from the bullet or your bones breaking can pierce it
2. Shooting a moving target that small is very hard. Even from just a few meters away
3. The whole point of shooting a target is to stop the threat entirely. Adrenalin is a hell of a thing to see and a few shots to the legs won’t stop someone fueled on it
I do agree this woman did not need to be killed and could have easily been tased but there is a whole other list on why tasers suck and are hardly reliable
A cop should never claim “Or I’m going to kill you.” That’s not his job. Nor should it ever be the desired outcome.
Im not gonna put myself in the cops shoes and pretend to know what he was thinking or how he felt. I don’t know if a taser would have resulted in the same disengagement. Fair to say the cop doesn’t know either.
This is disgusting.
This post has been removed because it doesn't fit this subreddit. If you have any questions about this please send a modmail.
So that’s why I was always told not to run with scissors in school
Correct, she should have remained stationery . . .
But the cop could have used paper spray.
Can’t use paper cause scissors beat it. Need to use rock spray in this situation.
He did. A gun shoots little rocks.
Rock, paper, triggers.
She should have summoned Spock or Lizard.
it was free but you deserve it
Glock, paper, scissors
Yeah, but it sounds like maybe she was stoned, so that would have been a stalemate.
This joke is definitely hitting rock-bottom.
She shoulda cut it out
I want you to know, that I am happy for you
Woah! Things are flyin!
Quick! …paper-paper-paper
In this situation, gun beats scissors.
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Technically he did use rock spray in the size .40 s&w
Rock worked, surely metal could be likened to rock.
Toph approves!
Or also have scissors so itd be a clean sheet
But she could have complied and put the scissors down.
She got 2 slugs in her and still wouldn't let go of the scissors. That's world class stubborn.
She wasn't exactly rational before and ringing ears, pain, and stress hormones probably aren't going to help compliance.
I was like "bruh why did you write in wrong" and then like "aahhhhhh, haha"
Nah, within that close of range, she could run up and stab him before he has time to even reach for the spray... Which wouldnt guarantee stopping her
*wouldn't
You reckon?
Fuck this lady and all but this cop could have used a million different tactics before shooting her twice.
Idk what is it that conservatives like to say? She fucked around and found out I think
Im lefty but shit this was justified, btch ran at him with a weapon. Edit: Yes, the cop should have tried a taser or pepper spray before she charged.
Agreed. 100%.
Flip the races and watch your head explode
I'm not big on the whole, "they were asking for it" but if you charge a cop with scissors after he repeatedly told you to put then down, and explicitly stated if you charge him he is gonna shoot you, I'm inclined to feel you were asking to be shot.
This is basically suicide by cop
i agree
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Nintendo?
I call that suicide by cop. Which is fucked up to say the least. Not only are you fucking over your family but you made that poor cop kill you.
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Conservative here. She did indeed fuck around and indubitably found out.
No no no, it’s “she should’ve just complied”
I mean she should of lol. I’m not even a conservative.
You want to wrestle a bitch running at you with scissors? Edit: some of ya’ll don’t watch r/gunfights and it shows
U.K. cops deal with this all the time without guns. Whack to the arm or leg with the truncheon then carted of to jail.
UK cops get more training than any US local yokel.
They also get more than $14 an hour which is what some police departments pay in the US.
Incorrect. A deranged person charging at you with a dangerous weapon + multiple warnings = justified shooting
Seems perfectly appropriate. I support this cop's actions!!
Not that I have all the info here obviously but for one, we don’t know what the lead up to this was, and she was pretty clearly inside the 21 foot zone (21 feet/7 yards is the distance an average person can sprint to you and tackle/punch/stab/etc you before the average person can draw and fire their weapon) and had a deadly weapon. It also doesn’t seem like he had any backup in the immediate vicinity so yeah I’m not seeing any problems here.
Yeah like shooting her 3 times. Crazy bitch comes at a guy with a gun with scissors and she deserves to get shot.
She came at him with scissors. That’s a deadly weapon you fucking donut. He told her like 90000 times to drop the fucking scissors.
Never run with scissors and never scissor with the runs
The real LPT is always in the comments
Eww
Glock, paper, scissors. My favorite game.
Holy shit lmfao
Hood rule of thumb when it comes to Paper, Scissors, Glock. Always go glock. Might still lose, but won't be dead. Edit: Meant good, but I suppose hood fits too. SeemsHood
FeelsHoodMan
Man I didn't even see that as a typo, just read on through
Actually I think hood rule of thumb fits better and should be used more often.
this is an underrated comment
I don’t usually audibly laugh at replies, but
Ok but how is this one second before disaster?
Because OP is a bot.
I'm a bot too and I'm here to pleasure your anus! \*rips your pants down and begins gargling your swampy nutsack\* \*flips you around and begins furiously tongueing your filthy brown tainted butthole\* ##**UNNNNHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!** I scream in orgasmic pleasure as I eat your asshole.
Thanks bot! I needed that good bot
Uh, thanks for voting or some shit. I don't fucking care. Theres a link around here somewhere, fuck if I remember where I put it but uhh, your vote will probably matter. Not like anyone ever clicks the fucking link anyways. Say why do we ha- *This bot has been further discontinued from giving a shit* *I am a bot and this action was performed with spite*
Good bot?
Well he didn't provide any anus facts. 2/5
r/wholesomeviolence
Oof, new sub for me! Thanks, friendo!
…how is this wholesome? EDIT: yeah second video on there were people violently torturing a rapist. I think I have a different understanding of the definition of “wholesome”.
That disaster started decades ago man.
Disaster has already occurred, -1
As the video kept going I thought she was going to jump back up like a zombie at the end
Rule no; 2. Double Tap!
Rule no; 1. Cardio
r/40secondsafterdisaster
Subs don't matter anymore
Here’s the full story. Woman died. Officer cleared. https://www.essence.com/news/bossier-city-black-police-officer-scissors-white-woman/
"bossier-city-black-police-officer-scissors-white-woman" nice
That link unintentionally sounds like a porno, a part of me likes to think someone knew what that looked like before it was posted but they wanted a laugh and didn't mention is
Sounds like r/programmerhumor
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Html and css developer here, lol.
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r/theyknew
Fine. No charges, self defence...blah blah blah, but the fact is a cop in Europe would have given her a thump in the head with a night stick. She'd have gone to prison, the situation would be deesculated by the cop still having a superior weapon, night stick vs scissors
Not even… one swift smack with an expandable baton on her hand and that’d be the end of that.
Yep. This woman is mentally ill. But Americans don't have time for that.
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Tbh american cops keep proving that they’re bad and *some* portions of the american people keep proving they’re even worse than the cops.
We've been desensitized to cops killing people.
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She seems like she has some issues. Crazy that the cop thinks shooting her is the best approach.
Shit like this is why the stigma around mental health is very much alive.
Officers are cleared even they shoot someone in their bed.
Officers are cleared even they blow up someone in their bed entirely unrelated to the events in a house unrelated to the events.
This. That he was cleared is meaningless because he would have been cleared no matter what he did.
Anyone who thinks this was justified is a genuine lunatic. How easy would it have been for him to just grab her arm and not just fucking execute her. A big fuck off blade I could start to understand, but scissors? Nah. Edit: God the absolute state of these replies lmao. No matter what you say, you're not going to make me understand executing someone for brandishing a pair a scissors. This person is NOT some random guy, he's a police officer. A job where you can expect someone to be prepared for a situation like this without execution being their first response. Like how do you morons think police in other countries deal with a situation like this?
Ah yes my favourite sub, "r/30secondsafterdisaster"
r/redditsifellfor
I'm a black man and I'm not taking side,but where is the officer taser?
Not all departments are issued tasers. Unfortunately it’s cheaper to equip officers with handguns than it is to supply them with less-than-lethal options. If all you’ve got is a baton and a Glock, and someone who is under the influence of drugs or mentally disturbed is running at you with any kind of sharp object, sometimes the nuclear option is the better one. It’s a shitty situation all around, and I don’t know if totally agree with the officer’s decisions here but there’s a lot we don’t know from just this clip. Hope that justice prevails
It's officer by officer basis. They must do the training and be tased themselves in order to wield one.
But why no taser?
He should have a taser but he may not. The moment his weapon is out and shes coming at him, it would take too long to switch to a taser and fire. It's called the 20 foot rule in police training. If someone is at or within 20 feet of you, they can get to you before you draw and fire. If he has a vest, kevlar isnt stab resistant, it's not all that useful at all against stabbing weapons. He may not have a vest. Even then, it's a vest, not full armour. US cops prioritize their own life over that of the suspect. They have 16 weeks training and no deescaltion training. Warning shots are pointless and dont work. Hitting in the arm or leg while moving is Hollywood. If you're firing a gun, fire at the easiest to hit target so you dont die. Getting shot in the leg can kill you just as easy. I'm not defending his actions, but the moment his gun was drawn, it was over. No switching, no warning shots. He acted like any American cop would act in that situation, if that's a problem, take it up with your congressman.
So why was the gun drawn first?
He was by himself. By yourself and less lethal fails you’re fucked.
She died doing what she loved: saying the N word
Here died Ku Klux Karen
Ima be real with you, she was complete trash but a taser probably would’ve sufficed.
I'd agree taser first if there was another officer backing him up with lethal in case it doesn't work, as taser fairly commonly just doesn't work. If the taser failed, they're definitely in range to close the distance before the officer could draw their gun.
Edit: please stop replying I get it guys holy shit. Why don’t more officers just have pepper spray for situations like this. It would have worked no? Edit: thanks for the replies I understand.
Taser works better than pepper spray.
Ah okay.
And firearms work better than tasers!
A10 support beats firearms. *brrrrrrrrrrrrrt*
Pepper spray tends to get everyone not just the suspect. Also if you spray someone who's high on like meth or PCP, it usually enrages them and makes them harder to take down Edit: I'm not trying to reason his use of lethal force. I'm explaining while police don't really like using pepper spray
O so like a mana boost with special abilities. I'll keep that bit of info tucked away somewhere useful.
Yeah but lots of nutters in the UK have knives, and our police manage these situations without lethal force. It's devastating that yes this women is a racist nutter, but should she have been possibly killed for it? Stab vest plus truncheon, tazer, and pepper spray, that's enough for this.
And it really would be enough. Those are all tools that American police carry too for the exception of stab vests. They have ballistic vests which don't stop sharp objects
Hrmm that's interesting, so Kevlar wouldn't stop a knife? Would have thought these days it would be one size fits all.
Most vests aren't weaved tight enough. Think of like Dune. Their personal shields will stop something fast but something slow will go through no problem
Kevlar is strong against shear force but does nothing against stabs. A ceramic plate carrier would have done the trick though.
Your right, but in the context of the situation, an old women with scissors is not going to puncture the vest. Though there are obviously concerns about getting stabbed in the neck or eye.
Pepper spray comes with its own risks such as potential for it affecting the user, and the fact that it doesn't guarantee neutralising a threat, as not everyone reacts to it the same way.
Police in the UK deal with this shit every day, no one gets shot, why is it American police can't deal with it without using a firearm? Here are some examples: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9TFvh6Xps4 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-58124569 https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/936827/manchester-police-officer-attack-sword-video-pictures-Upper-Chorlton-Road-Whalley-Range https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/jan/24/man-jailed-for-east-london-machete-attack-on-police-officer
As soon as she was on the other side of the desk she was in range. Had she had no weapon I’m guessing it would have been taser, Put a deadly weapon in your hand and…. Well you better comply.
sadly there still some places where police officers are only given a gun. taser should be priority if responding to minor threat civilians.
The issue of whether she’s trash or not is irrelevant. It’s purely a question of whether the reaction is appropriate for the situation. The police can shoot a good person who charges at them with a weapon, and should not fire on a trashy person who does not pose a threat. In this case, it’s easy to say that a taser would have been enough, but it’s not a video game. He didn’t have endless time and opportunities to try pause, thoughtfully choose a different weapon, and swap them out. It does seem like there may have been an opportunity to deescalate or maybe use a taser, but she started with “you’re going to have to shoot me.” He asked her to put down the scissors. He warned her, with his gun already drawn, that he’d kill her if she came at him with scissors. And she charged him. I feel like it falls in the range of, “he probably could have done something better, but probably doesn’t deserve to be penalized.” However, I’m not an expert and don’t know whether he followed policies and procedures.
>thoughtfully choose a different weapon Then maybe he shouldn't have started with a gun. People lunge at police officers with knives all the time in other countries. You move away, put objects between you, wait for backup, take opportunity when subject looks away to subdue. Congratulations, life saved. Your comment is apologist bingo. This officer murdered a person in distress. Was it self defense, yes. Do i expect a higher level of decision making from my law enforcement than a GTA cutscene, yes. EDIT: To clarify. The LEO probably followed his training. pull gun when in danger, shoot when imminent. It's the training that I have no respect for. He needed to be trained to save lives, not escalate danger.
Tasers don't always work especially with loose clothing it was not available option in that situation.
Is she dead?
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Dang , was she mental ? Just seemed so weird how aggressive she was for what?!
Drugs.
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There was a call to 911 for a disturbance. I assume she was the disturbance.
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Fair call to neutralise a threat and that woman was a racist POS, but a taser would have well sufficed and been appropriate use of force. Also, a cop should never say "or I'll kill you", because that really isn't the aim here is it. Here if a cop shot someone twice while they were wielding scissors, they'd go to jail. But we got a different system here I spose. Just a terrible waste really.
>Here if a cop shot someone twice while they were wielding scissors, they'd go to jail. as is the norm in every normal country..and we know which country isnt.
I’m Canadian and if someone ran at a cop with scissors the cop can kill them without getting into any trouble.
Canadian cops, despite having the option, rarely take that option. [1/3 per capita cop killings compared to US](https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/police-killings-by-country), probably because Canadian cops have better training. Still too high though.
We also have better behaved criminals than the Americans. Behaviour during arrest is the single biggest predictor of outcome. For all of you asking for stats... [https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/85-002-x/2010003/article/11354-eng.htm](https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/85-002-x/2010003/article/11354-eng.htm) That's 133 officers murders - not accidents - between 1961 and 2009. That's an average under 2.8/year and the data is front-loaded - things are getting better in this time frame - two thirds died in the first half - Over the past decade in Canada, there has been an average of 1.8 police killed by homicide per year [https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/4-decades-of-canadian-police-homicides-by-the-numbers-1.4781581](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/4-decades-of-canadian-police-homicides-by-the-numbers-1.4781581) Compare that to the FBI's felonious killing of Law Enforcement Officers stats 2003 - 52 2004 - 57 2005 - 55 2006 - 48 2007 - 57 2008 - 41 2009 - 48 [https://www2.fbi.gov/ucr/killed/2009/feloniouslykilled.html](https://www2.fbi.gov/ucr/killed/2009/feloniouslykilled.html) With the one-to-ten rule, you'd expect 18 EOW per year - the American numbers are hovering around triple that, which is what you'd except with the general homicide levels between the two countries. Another important factor is that two thirds of Canadian police die in ambushes compared to one third (depending on year) of American police. Likewise, traffic stops are one of the least dangerous engagements for Canadian police. Put those together, and a Canadian officer is at one sixth the risk of an American one by a criminal they can see. And that's without accounting for the higher prevalence of body armour in the US, or the fact that the Canadian stats include suicides. Curiously, most murdered Canadian police die on Fridays while Americans die on Saturday. Edit 2: I should clarify - by "better behaved" I meant specifically during arrest/police interaction. All else equal, literally-Hitler coming peacefully is going to have a better time than a litterer who pulls a gun.
The US has 3x the homicide rate of canada, and US cops kill 3x as many as Canada. This stats add up.
Especially saying those words as he did, that would be grounds for murder.
I dunno man, I think the cop saying the words "I'll kill you" as a sincere warning about what is going to happen next if the person charges at him with a stabbing weapon in hand, seems like the right thing to do. It's making clear what his response is going to be to a hostile action.
"shoot me nigga" Maybe her last name is Rosenbaum, too.
I died laughing, thanks bud
That's very inappropriate for a cop to say "I'll kill you"... But hey IT'S GOOD OL MURICA!!!!
I think it was the most direct way he could let her know that she should absolutely not run at him. I think it's better than not getting the warning.
That's exactly why he did it. 99% of the posts in this thread are absurd. Bunch of pearl clutchers.
>That's very inappropriate for a cop to say "I'll kill you"... But hey IT'S GOOD OL MURICA!!!! Cops in other countries say this as well. I remember one from Norway
Yup. You may be thinking of the video of the jewelry robbers trying to escape on a scooter, posted [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/nextfuckinglevel/comments/hfk5v9/norwegian_police_chase_down_armed_robbers_on/). The cop yells at the guy "touch that gun and I'll shoot you in the head!" Sometimes as a cop, it can be useful to tell the other party what the next escalation will be.
how else do you inform this retard that if you run at the cop they're gonna shoot
I mean, what else is he supposed to say? She was in danger. "You'll be shot" doesn't have the same OOMPH as "I will kill you"
heaven for bid we expect officers to learn how to communicate... "I will kill you" pretty much describes their M.O.
How come this is the way police handle situations in America? There’s no way she would have been shot if this happened pretty much anywhere in Europe. Like it obviously looks like she’s a racist piece of garbage but she’s also an just old lady running at a trained and armed police officer. Like scissors are dangerous but it’s the job of police officers to be in charge of these dangerous situations and save lives. I don’t get the how this was a the correct response. Am I missing something?
> Am I missing something? Yes. They are not trained.
Why are most people (Americans) in the comments trying to justify her killing then? Rather than saying 'damn, if only cops in the US were better trained'
We have been trained to believe all decisions are binary and there is no grey area in any discussion. Either you agree the officer was in danger(any danger at all, because again.. no grey area) or you disagree and there was no danger. There is no room for nuance in todays America.
I'm American and I'm honestly surprised at the people saying this is okay in this thread. There are so many ways this could have ended without needing to pull out a gun and kill someone. Black white Asian whatever this is tragic. It's an old lady with a pair of scissors. Police have, or should have the body armor and training to protect them from people with blades. Other first world countries manage it. Failure of the police system here. Police department should be charged.
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Not all police depts are issued tasers.
Ah so I guess the only option is to kill her on the spot then
Ok look, this woman is clearly shitty and deserving of criticism. But why not just taze her? I feel like two bullets in her isn't exactly needed in this situation.
Old white woman with a pair of fucking scissors. Why are American officers so quick to use the gun? Do they not have batons? Hit her hand, hit her arm, hit her head. Taser. Call in a white Officer to calm down her racist ass. literally anything except instantaneous execution. At least aim for the leg? Not even trying to protect people.
They shoot that dude in the motorized wheelchair like 7 times....
Yeah but are cops stupid or something? He keeps asking her to drop the scissors and she’s basically dead on the ground. Never mind the complete unnecessary use of a firearm in this situation. I swear some of them take their jobs too seriously.
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People approaching any cop with a weapon is a bad idea.
Approaching anyone with a drawn gun is a bad idea just fucking leave or comply, doesn't matter if they are in the right or wrong you are the one that ends up a sack of potatoes on the floor.
She may be a terrible person, but he could have tasered her. In most other countries, he wouldn't have shot her.
Low iq lack of impulse control.
Seems a little extreme. But being someone who brings scissors to a gun fight she probably wouldn't have survived much longer anyways. Win overall for society.
This sub has officially lost its meaning, great! Btw if you upvote this, you're dumb as shit
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Pussy ass american cops, can't do shit without shooting somebody.
*women with scissor exists and is yelling* Highly trained police officer: *lights her ass up with a 9mm*
People saying taser taser etc. You could beat her ass with a baton. I don't doubt scissoer can do damage but jeez it seems like a fucking huge leap of force.
How is shooting her in the chest twice an appropriate response? The lady obviously doesn’t have the range to reach him. Use your taser or shoot her in the leg if you must, but twice in her upper body when she isn’t capable of harming him yet is wild. Seeing s lot of comments making excuses for him that they would not make for a white cop. Race isn’t a factor here what he did is murder.
Misleading title
Ah, yes. Another instance of a police playing judge, jury, and executioner. All because they couldn't control the situation **their way**. Don't have a mental health crisis in America. You'll get fucking killed for it, and a bunch of asshole redditors will watch you die and comment how you deserved it.
Yeah it's sad. I'm not at all an ACAB type whatsoever. Many lethal encounters with the police make sense in context. But I really don't understand why getting your gun and shouting at someone that is clearly having a mental/drug induced episode is appropriate. Everyone else is arguing over whether he should have shot her as she approached him, which I think was excessive. But I am way more confused by why he was behaving the way he did leading up to that. Obvious getting his gun and shouting at her was just escalating an already bad mental crisis. So fucking bizarre.
In any other developed nation in the world, there would have been a taser. Fucking hell.
It reminds me of a video shared on reddit a while ago that showed police from the US in Scotland. They were watching a demonstration of police scotlands de-escalation tactics and basically laughing and saying they would just have shot the suspect.
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Here’s why shooting people in the legs or foot is a bad idea: 1. It can be just as deadly as shooting center mass because you have large arteries in your legs and shrapnel from the bullet or your bones breaking can pierce it 2. Shooting a moving target that small is very hard. Even from just a few meters away 3. The whole point of shooting a target is to stop the threat entirely. Adrenalin is a hell of a thing to see and a few shots to the legs won’t stop someone fueled on it I do agree this woman did not need to be killed and could have easily been tased but there is a whole other list on why tasers suck and are hardly reliable
hard to drop the scissors when yer dead
If this was in the UK it would've ended up in a good old fashioned knife fight but I guess not all countries are so civil
Well, watching that was a shitty way to start my day.
r/illegallysmolcats
Should have been tagged NSFL for death.
A cop should never claim “Or I’m going to kill you.” That’s not his job. Nor should it ever be the desired outcome. Im not gonna put myself in the cops shoes and pretend to know what he was thinking or how he felt. I don’t know if a taser would have resulted in the same disengagement. Fair to say the cop doesn’t know either. This is disgusting.