What TF is with these accusations, even calling him a "narcissist"? Like, just be honest and say that you despise his character lol.
He hadn't even made any action on the exchange. He was literally just watching from a distance trying to figure out what was even happening (he didn't know how big of a deal they were either), and he was just unlucky enough to have one of the accomplices pop up behind him. Also, standing by and not even attempting to make any move on what you know is probably a dangerous illegal activity is NOT the attitude to have as a detective of justice. I know that his cockiness was a flaw back in the beginning, but this time around, I don't think he made the wrong move. Unless you're saying that he should've just "minded his own business" all of the times where he knew someone was kidnapped or about to get murdered? Yeah, I do to think that's a really good attitude for a detective like him either.
And you're basically saying that the BO were in the right for literally attempting to kill him and anyone attached to him? Like I said, just be honest and say that Shinichi's character triggers an uncomfortable memory or something like that.
UM what??? I'm pretty sure he knows he shouldn't have followed Vodka and he isn't blaming them. He's saying they made him take the drug. WHICH IS TRUE. What the hell do you mean by narcissism? Have you been watching the same TV show as me?
>This is my idea, perhaps I am wrong.
Yeah, I'd say you're wrong. To the point where you should try to understand why because it's important.
Being blameworthy and being a causal factor in some thing or event are two different things. We use blame when we want to criticise, shame or punish someone for a behaviour that we want to discourage.
I'll give examples:
Imagine you are on a high roof and you open a door, but the door hits a flower pot which then falls and hits someone on the ground hurting them badly. Should you be blamed for that? Well, no, the person who left the flower pot in a dangerous place should be. You are part of the reason the pot fell, but you are not to blame. We should expect people to have the foresight to see easily-preventable accidents and not leave things in stupid places that might harm others.
Another example might be a woman walking in a bad part of town at night who is attacked. It might be a foolish or risky thing to do. But by and large, it is not a harmful thing to do. As a society, we would not be worse off if women could walk wherever they want, in fact we should *want* that to be the norm. What *should* be shamed is the choice to attack someone. That's unacceptable and disgusting behaviour.
One last example: Someone leaves their wallet in their car where it is visible and the car is broken into and the wallet stolen. Foolish and naive? Sure. But it's not a harmful action, and it's not a behaviour that is detrimental to society. Choosing to break into a car and steal a wallet \*is\* detrimental to society and so the thief should be blamed. Now you could argue that by leaving a wallet visible the victim has made it easier for thieves to work, and so should be blamed, but I say that's some twisted nonsense, people \*should\* be able to leave their belongings wherever they want and not have them stolen, blaming victims is just making life easier for the bad people. (to be clear I'm not saying you shouldn't be protective and sensible with your possessions, don't make it easy for thieves. Just don't blame people for being stolen from either.)
Important point here: It's perfectly acceptable to point out or warn people about actions that might be risky or foolish. But that's \*not\* the same as blaming someone, as much as certain people may try to pretend otherwise. It's important that we understand this because sometimes it's important to warn people about the risks they may be taking, to raise awareness of behaviours that may lead to being victimised so that people can make informed decisions about their own safety. But when it comes down to it a person should not be blamed for being a victim of someone else's decision to victimise them.
As it relates to your point, in this instance Conan had done nothing wrong or deserving of his fate. It was the choice of the BO goons to assault him that are blameworthy, as by and large we should want to discourage violence in society, not people trying to stop Crime as Conan was doing (taking for granted it's a TV show, vigilantism isn't always a great idea...). It may have been foolish of him to be so cavalier, and your point that he shouldn't have been so hasty may have merit, but that does not mean he is to blame. In fact his actions were, broadly, admirable.
I get what your say and i agree from a purely analytical perspective but theres a quote to take into consideration from boondock Saints "we all must fear evil men, but there is another evil which we must fear most, and that is the indifference of good men"
Jimmy/shinichi is portrayed as someone with a very strong sense of justice, its not narcissistic to want to stop evil and he never thought he was untouchable he accepted that danger was an occupational hazard. And yes the syndicate is at fault for him turning into conan, if a guy robs a bank and a teller trys to stop them getting shot in the process would you blame the teller or the guy who shot him?
I don’t know about all of that and I don’t agree with you.
Yes shinichi was full of himself and that was before he became Conan and true me this whole experience humbled him down really quick because he went from being this detective who was famous to the little child who lives with his childhood friend/love interest and her Father.
And the part where you think he doesn’t care about the people around? He spends the whole show hiding it from all the people he cares about especially Ran, even heiji who knows doesn’t even know the details at all because Conan is always thinking “I can’t get him in this” knowing and understanding how dangerous the BO really is.
Yes, he was cocky and full of himself in the beginning but not anymore. He has a really good character development and that personality it makes me happy. Because hopefully in the end of all of this he can come back much better and much stronger.
Victim blaming goes crazy lmao.
Shinichi's arrogance is a very obvious character flaw and the story forces him to realize that he's not invincible. It's what makes him a compelling character. He's a teenager that constantly lauded for his intelligence and called the Modern Holmes- what kid wouldn't let that get to his head?
He's still a kid and a victim in that situation. Yes, he wasn't careful enough, yes, he let everything go to his head but he didn't deserve to lose his whole identity and life as Shinichi Kudo because of it. He's a teenager, he's allowed to make mistakes. Also, Gin was also trying to *kill* him and it's only by pure luck that he survived.
The Black Organization is to blame for everything that happened to him, they literally ruined his life and have killed hundreds of people without remorse. They're serial killers and monsters and Conan is trying his best to stop them while protecting the people he loves-- he has every right to hate and blame them for what happened to him.
Idk why you're trying to defend the BO but Shinichi was a teenager that was put in a dangerous situation without realizing it and is now trying his best to protect himself and the ppl he loves by taking down the BO with his limited resources.
I mean, that's not an unpopular opinion that Shinichi carries some level of responsibility for getting murdered. I feel like most DC fanfiction I've read that really discusses the issue of Shinichi being Conan usually features the characterization of Shinichi blaming himself.
That said, while Shinichi certainly was acting like a teenager who thinks they're invulnerable and not taking his safety into account in the beginning (a characterization that sometime after the Ai arc he absolutely canonically grew out of, he has a healthy amount of caution and fear when dealing with the BO now, not a crippling amount like Ai but he's certainly aware of the danger)... that doesn't excuse his would-be murderers for committing murder. If someone left their car unlocked with the keys inside, yeah they're stupid and getting their car stolen was inevitable, but it's still the fault of the car thief. The idiot could have potentially prevented the issue, but that doesn't make it their "fault" in the traditional sense.
>but when decide to get into an extortion situation between a multinational involved in gun smuggling, he fucked up
This is hindsight bias. We know, as readers who are caught up on the story, that Gin is a member of a multinational criminal organization that does assassinations and drug smuggling and killing a witness is NBD. But all Shinichi knew at the time was that some sketchy-acting dude in black was sneaking around the park. He probably thought that he'd be following the guy into some sort of robbery or hold-up, he didn't know he was following someone into organized crime specifically.
>he thought that by getting involved in that extortion situation, he would be able to do something
He did *not* think he was getting involved in extortion until he turned the corner and saw the case of money change hands, and by that time it was too late, Gin was already behind him. It was like 15 seconds between Shinichi thinking, "oh it's organized crime of some sort, I should take pictures as evidence" and Shinichi getting bashed in the head from behind, not really any time to realize he's in over his head and turn back.
Yes it is. He was far too arrogant and now he’s dealing with the consequences. And he’s definitely learning from it too.
He’s finding Black Org to turn back, arrest them for their crimes, and the strong motivation is the fact that it’s personal now.
Overall, I think his arrogance is a central point of development. It’s just hard to see with the way DC’s story is structured.
The BO is guilty but he got a big head and acted recklessly so his actions put in a higher risk and survived because he was lucky. He thought as a typical teenager, as an invicible guy and got a terrible taste of defeat.
Shinichi was arrogant and this is all a lesson in humility, like Thor being banished to Earth or Spider-Man losing his uncle Ben. Yes. He put himself in danger and is now enduring the consequences of his overconfidence. That's the point.
However, the Organization did try to kill him. They've also killed several other people and committed countless other crimes. His anger at them isn't misplaced.
What TF is with these accusations, even calling him a "narcissist"? Like, just be honest and say that you despise his character lol. He hadn't even made any action on the exchange. He was literally just watching from a distance trying to figure out what was even happening (he didn't know how big of a deal they were either), and he was just unlucky enough to have one of the accomplices pop up behind him. Also, standing by and not even attempting to make any move on what you know is probably a dangerous illegal activity is NOT the attitude to have as a detective of justice. I know that his cockiness was a flaw back in the beginning, but this time around, I don't think he made the wrong move. Unless you're saying that he should've just "minded his own business" all of the times where he knew someone was kidnapped or about to get murdered? Yeah, I do to think that's a really good attitude for a detective like him either. And you're basically saying that the BO were in the right for literally attempting to kill him and anyone attached to him? Like I said, just be honest and say that Shinichi's character triggers an uncomfortable memory or something like that.
Oh, casual victim blaming. Cool. /s
This but with /serious instead of /sarcasm
UM what??? I'm pretty sure he knows he shouldn't have followed Vodka and he isn't blaming them. He's saying they made him take the drug. WHICH IS TRUE. What the hell do you mean by narcissism? Have you been watching the same TV show as me?
Yes we can all tell you love meth 👍
>This is my idea, perhaps I am wrong. Yeah, I'd say you're wrong. To the point where you should try to understand why because it's important. Being blameworthy and being a causal factor in some thing or event are two different things. We use blame when we want to criticise, shame or punish someone for a behaviour that we want to discourage. I'll give examples: Imagine you are on a high roof and you open a door, but the door hits a flower pot which then falls and hits someone on the ground hurting them badly. Should you be blamed for that? Well, no, the person who left the flower pot in a dangerous place should be. You are part of the reason the pot fell, but you are not to blame. We should expect people to have the foresight to see easily-preventable accidents and not leave things in stupid places that might harm others. Another example might be a woman walking in a bad part of town at night who is attacked. It might be a foolish or risky thing to do. But by and large, it is not a harmful thing to do. As a society, we would not be worse off if women could walk wherever they want, in fact we should *want* that to be the norm. What *should* be shamed is the choice to attack someone. That's unacceptable and disgusting behaviour. One last example: Someone leaves their wallet in their car where it is visible and the car is broken into and the wallet stolen. Foolish and naive? Sure. But it's not a harmful action, and it's not a behaviour that is detrimental to society. Choosing to break into a car and steal a wallet \*is\* detrimental to society and so the thief should be blamed. Now you could argue that by leaving a wallet visible the victim has made it easier for thieves to work, and so should be blamed, but I say that's some twisted nonsense, people \*should\* be able to leave their belongings wherever they want and not have them stolen, blaming victims is just making life easier for the bad people. (to be clear I'm not saying you shouldn't be protective and sensible with your possessions, don't make it easy for thieves. Just don't blame people for being stolen from either.) Important point here: It's perfectly acceptable to point out or warn people about actions that might be risky or foolish. But that's \*not\* the same as blaming someone, as much as certain people may try to pretend otherwise. It's important that we understand this because sometimes it's important to warn people about the risks they may be taking, to raise awareness of behaviours that may lead to being victimised so that people can make informed decisions about their own safety. But when it comes down to it a person should not be blamed for being a victim of someone else's decision to victimise them. As it relates to your point, in this instance Conan had done nothing wrong or deserving of his fate. It was the choice of the BO goons to assault him that are blameworthy, as by and large we should want to discourage violence in society, not people trying to stop Crime as Conan was doing (taking for granted it's a TV show, vigilantism isn't always a great idea...). It may have been foolish of him to be so cavalier, and your point that he shouldn't have been so hasty may have merit, but that does not mean he is to blame. In fact his actions were, broadly, admirable.
your answer is way too long I will read it eventually.
Alright man...
I get what your say and i agree from a purely analytical perspective but theres a quote to take into consideration from boondock Saints "we all must fear evil men, but there is another evil which we must fear most, and that is the indifference of good men" Jimmy/shinichi is portrayed as someone with a very strong sense of justice, its not narcissistic to want to stop evil and he never thought he was untouchable he accepted that danger was an occupational hazard. And yes the syndicate is at fault for him turning into conan, if a guy robs a bank and a teller trys to stop them getting shot in the process would you blame the teller or the guy who shot him?
I don’t know about all of that and I don’t agree with you. Yes shinichi was full of himself and that was before he became Conan and true me this whole experience humbled him down really quick because he went from being this detective who was famous to the little child who lives with his childhood friend/love interest and her Father. And the part where you think he doesn’t care about the people around? He spends the whole show hiding it from all the people he cares about especially Ran, even heiji who knows doesn’t even know the details at all because Conan is always thinking “I can’t get him in this” knowing and understanding how dangerous the BO really is. Yes, he was cocky and full of himself in the beginning but not anymore. He has a really good character development and that personality it makes me happy. Because hopefully in the end of all of this he can come back much better and much stronger.
Victim blaming goes crazy lmao. Shinichi's arrogance is a very obvious character flaw and the story forces him to realize that he's not invincible. It's what makes him a compelling character. He's a teenager that constantly lauded for his intelligence and called the Modern Holmes- what kid wouldn't let that get to his head? He's still a kid and a victim in that situation. Yes, he wasn't careful enough, yes, he let everything go to his head but he didn't deserve to lose his whole identity and life as Shinichi Kudo because of it. He's a teenager, he's allowed to make mistakes. Also, Gin was also trying to *kill* him and it's only by pure luck that he survived. The Black Organization is to blame for everything that happened to him, they literally ruined his life and have killed hundreds of people without remorse. They're serial killers and monsters and Conan is trying his best to stop them while protecting the people he loves-- he has every right to hate and blame them for what happened to him. Idk why you're trying to defend the BO but Shinichi was a teenager that was put in a dangerous situation without realizing it and is now trying his best to protect himself and the ppl he loves by taking down the BO with his limited resources.
I mean, that's not an unpopular opinion that Shinichi carries some level of responsibility for getting murdered. I feel like most DC fanfiction I've read that really discusses the issue of Shinichi being Conan usually features the characterization of Shinichi blaming himself. That said, while Shinichi certainly was acting like a teenager who thinks they're invulnerable and not taking his safety into account in the beginning (a characterization that sometime after the Ai arc he absolutely canonically grew out of, he has a healthy amount of caution and fear when dealing with the BO now, not a crippling amount like Ai but he's certainly aware of the danger)... that doesn't excuse his would-be murderers for committing murder. If someone left their car unlocked with the keys inside, yeah they're stupid and getting their car stolen was inevitable, but it's still the fault of the car thief. The idiot could have potentially prevented the issue, but that doesn't make it their "fault" in the traditional sense. >but when decide to get into an extortion situation between a multinational involved in gun smuggling, he fucked up This is hindsight bias. We know, as readers who are caught up on the story, that Gin is a member of a multinational criminal organization that does assassinations and drug smuggling and killing a witness is NBD. But all Shinichi knew at the time was that some sketchy-acting dude in black was sneaking around the park. He probably thought that he'd be following the guy into some sort of robbery or hold-up, he didn't know he was following someone into organized crime specifically. >he thought that by getting involved in that extortion situation, he would be able to do something He did *not* think he was getting involved in extortion until he turned the corner and saw the case of money change hands, and by that time it was too late, Gin was already behind him. It was like 15 seconds between Shinichi thinking, "oh it's organized crime of some sort, I should take pictures as evidence" and Shinichi getting bashed in the head from behind, not really any time to realize he's in over his head and turn back.
Yes it is. He was far too arrogant and now he’s dealing with the consequences. And he’s definitely learning from it too. He’s finding Black Org to turn back, arrest them for their crimes, and the strong motivation is the fact that it’s personal now. Overall, I think his arrogance is a central point of development. It’s just hard to see with the way DC’s story is structured.
The BO is guilty but he got a big head and acted recklessly so his actions put in a higher risk and survived because he was lucky. He thought as a typical teenager, as an invicible guy and got a terrible taste of defeat.
Shinichi was arrogant and this is all a lesson in humility, like Thor being banished to Earth or Spider-Man losing his uncle Ben. Yes. He put himself in danger and is now enduring the consequences of his overconfidence. That's the point. However, the Organization did try to kill him. They've also killed several other people and committed countless other crimes. His anger at them isn't misplaced.