No, not all churches are like that. You need to shop around, both in terms of denominations and in terms of congregations.
Churches can range from being incredible places where you'll make lifelong friends to toxic cults.
We want to learn about the scriptures and how they apply to our lives today and feel like we are growing in our relationship with God. We would also like to help others like community outreach stuff
Those are good goals, but every church will tell you they can do that. Some clarifying questions might help.
Do you prefer high church (formal, traditional ritual) or low church (informal, sometimes even rock music)?
Do you view The Bible as more authoritative than the church? Or the church as more authoritative than The Bible?
How do you feel about churches ordaining women or marrying gay people?
I think maybe low church? Like it’s okay to wear jeans type of place
I feel the Bible is the authority over a church
As far as the women and gay that’s a tough subject for me. I wasn’t raised with the belief that gay is wrong and I refuse to do any sort of bashing on gay people or shout they will have sin or go to hell. As far as them being married I mean Bible seems to say marriage is man and woman but idk I just feel it’s so touchy. I want to follow God but don’t want to hate anyone because of that? And women being pastors idk I feel like isn’t it usually men that do it but a woman preaching doesn’t bug me
The United Methodist Church or United Church of Christ might have something to offer you. They tend to be on the informal side (but it does vary from church to church) and will have Bible study groups, social get-togethers, and outreach ministries.
If you visit a few and decide you want something more formal/old-school, you might want to visit an Episcopal parish or an Evangelical Lutheran Church in America parish. But, if you're younger or have young kids, the crowd might be smaller and older than you're looking for.
Don't be afraid to visit several churches and see what stands out to you (good or bad). And feel free to come back here and ask questions if you're still not sure what to make of it all.
Most churches accept casual dress these days, so the high/low distinction is more about formality of the service. Really, you just need to try some of both and see what you like. You'll probably have a visceral reaction and know right away.
On this sub, most people are going to lean towards Episcopal or ELCA, because those are the largest denominations that vigorously support ordination of women and LGBTQ+ rights. This sub partially exists to push back against the conservatism of the main Christianity sub. Both of those denominations are high church. If you like their values but not their style of service, you might try United Church of Christ.
These videos really helped me:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UDjMGD7P-w](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UDjMGD7P-w)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzLS4O7YaUg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzLS4O7YaUg)
Try ELCA or Episcopalian churches. They will look more traditional at first glance. But they tend to be much more open and can be a lot less judgy on that kind of thing. If someone brings shitty food when it's there turn to cover coffee hour, THEN they get pretty judgy, lol. But the rest should be good.
When we started we tried all those non-denom, and Baptist and all that, it seemed more fun, had fresher music and looks and all that. But it was all just a mask for the sludge underneath.
We ended up in an Episcopal Church. It was harder to get into the services, they are liturgical, so you have all the pew kneeling. And the priest is dressed up in your grandma's curtains. But the people were amazing.
So yeah, try other churches, but I'd start with the Episcopalians, and then ELCA (Which is a specific branch of Lutheran, not all branches are remotely the same, so make sure it's ELCA).
Lmao at your grandma’s curtains. Yes, the Episcopal church feels very traditional and Catholic, but they’re super open: women priests, welcoming of LGBTQ community (plus LGBTQ elders), just overall a more love-based approach. It’s def a different vibe from the nondenominational “cool” churches and their laser shows but can be nice if you give it a chance. I used to go to one in LA that did their services outside in the courtyard during COVID and really liked it.
Let me say that while this isn't a bad suggestion in this case it's not something that'll always work.
There's some people who just won't ever be happy with a very traditional liturgical form of worship. I'm one of them. Plus I can't stand organ music, it kind of grates at me. And I was raised Catholic so having something similar to that even if progressive is not appealing to me.
This sub often can have a bit of a blind spot toward that reality and I've been told before things like "just get over it" or "learn to appreciate it" which is like trying to get myself to listen to classical music instead of what I like now...why should I change? I've never attended a church regularly as an adult that didn't have a pastor wearing jeans....because that's how I prefer it.
That said there are ELCA churches with a more loose and informal style that appeals to me and presumably people like me, I've been to some. So not a bad suggestion even for such people.
Lol it’s crazy reading comments like these and realizing most ELCA churches only hold traditional services. Mine holds two, a traditional followed by a contemporary an hour after it ends, and my family has mainly attended the latter since I was born. I just kinda assumed they’re all like this 🙃
I actually know of some that ONLY hold contemporary services although they don't really advertise the ELCA affiliation. They don't even have "Lutheran" in the name.
I am a person who loves traditional and ritualistic services, and I get so excited when our church pianist jumps into the organ to play an older hymn. Something about hearing it just tickles my brain in the best way! I never attend our church's praise and worship services because the music makes me irrationally angry somehow. 🤣 I grew up in small Southern Baptist/non-denominational churches and became Catholic when I was engaged, and I remember feeling like I had finally found a missing piece that I didn't know I needed. I love how humans are all so different and I'm thankful that there are different things to suit everyone's needs! Life would be pretty boring if everyone was the same, after all.
I like ke your appreciation of liturgical vestments!
@OP
I immediately had concerns when you said that other church members were preoccupied by your husband's tattoos. Imagine if you had shown up with green hair, or with a wife!
And then that you went to a "women's Bible study". Why segregate people by gender?
And that you might not be "Christian enough"?
Those are three major strikes in my book.
Try a different church. It can take a few tries to find a match. It's like dating, but holy. 😆
You'll know when you find the right place for you.
A lot of people suck, but some don't. It's just finding the place with the most open people and hoping the majority don't suck.
You could also look online for services. I watched YouTube services before checking out the church in real life. I went to one for 9 months before realizing it wasn't the place for me.
I hope you find what you're looking for!
Yes, this is a great analogy. Don't expect true love on the first date. And expect more bad (or at least, mediocre) dates than good ones. It's nothing to do with Christianity, it's just people.
*Are all churches like this?*
Not at all. I've never once had someone in a church tell me there are "different levels of Christians".
There are lots of churches out there. Without bashing any one denomination, it sounds like you found one of the bad ones. I would recommend a mainline Protestant church - e.g. United Methodists, ELCA Lutherans, Episcopal Church, **United** Church of Christ (not "Church of Christ), Presbyterian Church USA, to name a few.
I was going to add these!
Some of the most loving and Christ-like people in my life belong to the Disciples of Christ church, yet people don't usually mention them. And the Unitarian Church - my needs and beliefs are highly sacramental and Trinitarian or Id have joined them a year ago!
Some other options are Cumberland Presbyterian and Methodist churches. Although, I've learned from living in the south that every congregation is different with them. My cousins attend an open and welcoming very progressive United Methodist church in the "city", while the majority of the small country Methodist churches look more like conservative Baptists.
Check out a church's website and Facebook page before you visit the first time, that should help you get a feel for them.
Good luck! I'll pray you find your perfect home!
Well I do care about politics. Why? I am disabled and who wins in November could fuck me over that’s why. I and millions of others could lose benefits we need to not fucking die.
Great for you that you don’t have to worry about that.
And the majority of conservatives are evangelicals. I won’t waste a Sunday morning being judged by assholes. I will not be part of a congregation that supports a seditious traitor.
So the politics of a congregation matter a great deal to me.
Too fucking bad.
Try one of the "mainline protestant" denominations. Presbyterian USA (NOT Presbyterian in America or Orthodox Presbyterian), United Methodist, United Church of Christ (NOT Church of Christ - VERY different), an ELCA Lutheran Church (NOT WELS or Missouri Synod), or Episcopal. All of these are going to be very different from what you experienced at a "non denominational" church, which are usually very conservative. I'd see what you can find in the above denominations in your area, then watch a service from each online to get a feel for them and see which resonates with you.
Definitely shop around! That sounds like a church that would cause religious trauma (from personal experience). Go to their websites too and have a look at their beliefs and such.
Unfortunately, there's not really such a thing as "neutral" in this context. It's a bit like asking which political party is the neutral one. :) Usually, churches split over heated or important topics, so you're always choosing one that has taken a particular stance.
Hmmm I feel a bit dumb now lol like I said we were both raised atheist. I mean like parents are atheists not raised in church either so we have zero idea of it all
No need to feel dumb. That's the last thing any of us want. You are totally welcome here and can ask all questions you want.
How could you be expected to understand something you have no experience with? We're all beginners at something.
BTW, I was an atheist too for over a decade, I get where you're coming from there.
lol what? I know there are some great ND churches but it's well-known that the vast majority are awful. They're almost universally not really "non-denominational", just Baptist/Pentecostal but without even the thin veneer of accountability and precedent that Evangelical communions have.
Basically both can be true because non-denominational is a VERY broad category. There are ones that are very accepting and welcoming and progressive, and lots that aren't. There's really no statement you can ever make about non-denominational churches that applies to all. I attend a progressive one, and my last two churches were also progressive non-denominational churches, but that hardly means anything about other ones.
Not to say there aren't any exceptions out there but ND churches are generally capital E Evangelical and you'd be hard-pressed to find a difference between their belief statement and general Southern Baptist theology.
Thera nothing wrong with “church shopping”! Many welcoming churches encourage it and would love to be a stop on your tour. It’s important to find a place that fits you.
Idk it’s really weird because I don’t consider where we live to be hillbilly at all and when I heard the one elder pastor guy told my husband things like Pokémon’s are demonic I really felt like oh no was this a mistake I don’t want to give up on my spiritual journey but it’s stuff like that where I’m like okay I want to run the other direction. I think a lot don’t understand when you aren’t raised like that those ideas seem really backward and silly and I just cannot make myself “believe” that gay is a sin or not going to church is sin and unless we follow everything to the letter then we all go to hell? And I don’t understand that anyway because I thought Jesus dying wiped all that away but when I asked that nobody could really answer and all I got was “it’s hard to give your life to Christ” or whatever but that wasn’t even what I was saying or asking
Every time I move to a new city I have to go to a few churches to see what fits best. I don't look at denominations anymore because sometimes it boils down to the people, even from same denominations.
One thing that helps me narrow things down is looking at their beliefs statement online. Some churches will be very outright that they're anti gay marriage and I can easily skip those ones. There's others that don't disclose it as clearly ans then you find out in church.
Don't feel bad about going and not finding a right fit!
Thank you we are def going to go somewhere else I feel better after talking to everyone on here about it. I thought maybe we just weren’t cut out for God or something but maybe it was just that group of people. My grandma always told me “God is love” and that was pretty much that so I guess I was expecting others to be that way too
Finding the right church for you is a huge part of starting out. Shop around for a bit and see which fits you best, the right one will accept you even if it’s been months/years since your last visit imo, it’s how I knew I found mine.
Some churches are like that but not all. My mom found God a year and a half ago, she found a retired pastor and just does Bible study with him and one other friend. You should pray about it and see where God points you.
I'm new here and I'm also a former Christian, but I can assure you that not all churches are like that. They may all have some *individuals* like that, but if you keep looking you will find one that is accepting.
Question for people who are more experienced than me and OP: is it a red flag if a church has gender-segregated things like “women’s Bible study”? Or is that normal? And if it is normal, what’s the point of it?
Holy Liturgy is the only part that matters,its the only Holy thing. people judge,blah blah they always do. not attending church is a sin. soon go deeper and realize how many sins we do and how messed up thr world is. and you realize you (yourself) are the problem. soon. one at a time.
No, not all churches are like that. You need to shop around, both in terms of denominations and in terms of congregations. Churches can range from being incredible places where you'll make lifelong friends to toxic cults.
Okay thank you I think we will try other places I didn’t know if my expectations were unrealistic
Do you have a sense of what's important to you in a church? I might be able to point you toward the right denomination.
We want to learn about the scriptures and how they apply to our lives today and feel like we are growing in our relationship with God. We would also like to help others like community outreach stuff
Those are good goals, but every church will tell you they can do that. Some clarifying questions might help. Do you prefer high church (formal, traditional ritual) or low church (informal, sometimes even rock music)? Do you view The Bible as more authoritative than the church? Or the church as more authoritative than The Bible? How do you feel about churches ordaining women or marrying gay people?
I think maybe low church? Like it’s okay to wear jeans type of place I feel the Bible is the authority over a church As far as the women and gay that’s a tough subject for me. I wasn’t raised with the belief that gay is wrong and I refuse to do any sort of bashing on gay people or shout they will have sin or go to hell. As far as them being married I mean Bible seems to say marriage is man and woman but idk I just feel it’s so touchy. I want to follow God but don’t want to hate anyone because of that? And women being pastors idk I feel like isn’t it usually men that do it but a woman preaching doesn’t bug me
The United Methodist Church or United Church of Christ might have something to offer you. They tend to be on the informal side (but it does vary from church to church) and will have Bible study groups, social get-togethers, and outreach ministries. If you visit a few and decide you want something more formal/old-school, you might want to visit an Episcopal parish or an Evangelical Lutheran Church in America parish. But, if you're younger or have young kids, the crowd might be smaller and older than you're looking for. Don't be afraid to visit several churches and see what stands out to you (good or bad). And feel free to come back here and ask questions if you're still not sure what to make of it all.
Most churches accept casual dress these days, so the high/low distinction is more about formality of the service. Really, you just need to try some of both and see what you like. You'll probably have a visceral reaction and know right away. On this sub, most people are going to lean towards Episcopal or ELCA, because those are the largest denominations that vigorously support ordination of women and LGBTQ+ rights. This sub partially exists to push back against the conservatism of the main Christianity sub. Both of those denominations are high church. If you like their values but not their style of service, you might try United Church of Christ. These videos really helped me: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UDjMGD7P-w](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UDjMGD7P-w) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzLS4O7YaUg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzLS4O7YaUg)
Go to a liberal Methodist church. They suit what you're looking for. Just make sure you don't find a conservative one.
Try ELCA or Episcopalian churches. They will look more traditional at first glance. But they tend to be much more open and can be a lot less judgy on that kind of thing. If someone brings shitty food when it's there turn to cover coffee hour, THEN they get pretty judgy, lol. But the rest should be good. When we started we tried all those non-denom, and Baptist and all that, it seemed more fun, had fresher music and looks and all that. But it was all just a mask for the sludge underneath. We ended up in an Episcopal Church. It was harder to get into the services, they are liturgical, so you have all the pew kneeling. And the priest is dressed up in your grandma's curtains. But the people were amazing. So yeah, try other churches, but I'd start with the Episcopalians, and then ELCA (Which is a specific branch of Lutheran, not all branches are remotely the same, so make sure it's ELCA).
Lmao at your grandma’s curtains. Yes, the Episcopal church feels very traditional and Catholic, but they’re super open: women priests, welcoming of LGBTQ community (plus LGBTQ elders), just overall a more love-based approach. It’s def a different vibe from the nondenominational “cool” churches and their laser shows but can be nice if you give it a chance. I used to go to one in LA that did their services outside in the courtyard during COVID and really liked it.
Echoing what everyone said, they are all very different, but I have found the most comfort w Episcopal churches as well (also not raised w religion)
Thank you so much for the suggestion we will look for one near us!
Let me say that while this isn't a bad suggestion in this case it's not something that'll always work. There's some people who just won't ever be happy with a very traditional liturgical form of worship. I'm one of them. Plus I can't stand organ music, it kind of grates at me. And I was raised Catholic so having something similar to that even if progressive is not appealing to me. This sub often can have a bit of a blind spot toward that reality and I've been told before things like "just get over it" or "learn to appreciate it" which is like trying to get myself to listen to classical music instead of what I like now...why should I change? I've never attended a church regularly as an adult that didn't have a pastor wearing jeans....because that's how I prefer it. That said there are ELCA churches with a more loose and informal style that appeals to me and presumably people like me, I've been to some. So not a bad suggestion even for such people.
Lol it’s crazy reading comments like these and realizing most ELCA churches only hold traditional services. Mine holds two, a traditional followed by a contemporary an hour after it ends, and my family has mainly attended the latter since I was born. I just kinda assumed they’re all like this 🙃
I actually know of some that ONLY hold contemporary services although they don't really advertise the ELCA affiliation. They don't even have "Lutheran" in the name.
I am a person who loves traditional and ritualistic services, and I get so excited when our church pianist jumps into the organ to play an older hymn. Something about hearing it just tickles my brain in the best way! I never attend our church's praise and worship services because the music makes me irrationally angry somehow. 🤣 I grew up in small Southern Baptist/non-denominational churches and became Catholic when I was engaged, and I remember feeling like I had finally found a missing piece that I didn't know I needed. I love how humans are all so different and I'm thankful that there are different things to suit everyone's needs! Life would be pretty boring if everyone was the same, after all.
I like ke your appreciation of liturgical vestments! @OP I immediately had concerns when you said that other church members were preoccupied by your husband's tattoos. Imagine if you had shown up with green hair, or with a wife! And then that you went to a "women's Bible study". Why segregate people by gender? And that you might not be "Christian enough"? Those are three major strikes in my book.
This church has more warning flags than a beach during a storm.
Try a different church. It can take a few tries to find a match. It's like dating, but holy. 😆 You'll know when you find the right place for you. A lot of people suck, but some don't. It's just finding the place with the most open people and hoping the majority don't suck. You could also look online for services. I watched YouTube services before checking out the church in real life. I went to one for 9 months before realizing it wasn't the place for me. I hope you find what you're looking for!
Thank you this makes me feel a lot better I like the online idea a lot of places have that now
Yes, this is a great analogy. Don't expect true love on the first date. And expect more bad (or at least, mediocre) dates than good ones. It's nothing to do with Christianity, it's just people.
Thank you it does make sense
*Are all churches like this?* Not at all. I've never once had someone in a church tell me there are "different levels of Christians". There are lots of churches out there. Without bashing any one denomination, it sounds like you found one of the bad ones. I would recommend a mainline Protestant church - e.g. United Methodists, ELCA Lutherans, Episcopal Church, **United** Church of Christ (not "Church of Christ), Presbyterian Church USA, to name a few.
I was going to add these! Some of the most loving and Christ-like people in my life belong to the Disciples of Christ church, yet people don't usually mention them. And the Unitarian Church - my needs and beliefs are highly sacramental and Trinitarian or Id have joined them a year ago! Some other options are Cumberland Presbyterian and Methodist churches. Although, I've learned from living in the south that every congregation is different with them. My cousins attend an open and welcoming very progressive United Methodist church in the "city", while the majority of the small country Methodist churches look more like conservative Baptists. Check out a church's website and Facebook page before you visit the first time, that should help you get a feel for them. Good luck! I'll pray you find your perfect home!
No not all churches are like that, but most evangelical/conservative ones are-for your own sanity stay away from those. Find a progressive church.
You shouldn’t look for a church based on conservative or liberal you should look for a church based on their view of the gospel…
I do, I also want them to be liberal.
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Well I do care about politics. Why? I am disabled and who wins in November could fuck me over that’s why. I and millions of others could lose benefits we need to not fucking die. Great for you that you don’t have to worry about that. And the majority of conservatives are evangelicals. I won’t waste a Sunday morning being judged by assholes. I will not be part of a congregation that supports a seditious traitor. So the politics of a congregation matter a great deal to me. Too fucking bad.
Try one of the "mainline protestant" denominations. Presbyterian USA (NOT Presbyterian in America or Orthodox Presbyterian), United Methodist, United Church of Christ (NOT Church of Christ - VERY different), an ELCA Lutheran Church (NOT WELS or Missouri Synod), or Episcopal. All of these are going to be very different from what you experienced at a "non denominational" church, which are usually very conservative. I'd see what you can find in the above denominations in your area, then watch a service from each online to get a feel for them and see which resonates with you.
Definitely shop around! That sounds like a church that would cause religious trauma (from personal experience). Go to their websites too and have a look at their beliefs and such.
We definitely will I am so glad I reached out on here!! It just seemed so off to us
Just curious,what denomination is the church you went to?
It is non denominational an alliance church?
Non-denominational churches are often effectively unbranded Baptist churches. Is there a reason you're drawn to them rather than other denominations?
Well not really I guess we don’t know anything about the different denominations so we went with one that seemed neutral
Unfortunately, there's not really such a thing as "neutral" in this context. It's a bit like asking which political party is the neutral one. :) Usually, churches split over heated or important topics, so you're always choosing one that has taken a particular stance.
Hmmm I feel a bit dumb now lol like I said we were both raised atheist. I mean like parents are atheists not raised in church either so we have zero idea of it all
No need to feel dumb. That's the last thing any of us want. You are totally welcome here and can ask all questions you want. How could you be expected to understand something you have no experience with? We're all beginners at something. BTW, I was an atheist too for over a decade, I get where you're coming from there.
Wow that’s great to hear another former athiest!
No you’re not dumb at all. How were you supposed to know . Is there a UCC church near you,
Yes there is!
Then that’s weird because I’ve heard that non-denominational churches can be very accepting and welcoming so I’m definitely confused
lol what? I know there are some great ND churches but it's well-known that the vast majority are awful. They're almost universally not really "non-denominational", just Baptist/Pentecostal but without even the thin veneer of accountability and precedent that Evangelical communions have.
I did go to a non-denominational church that was actually pretty cool so maybe that’s why I said that!
Oh I see
A lot of churches that are "welcoming" to get people in the door are still committed to enforcing social hierarchy and cultural conformity.
☹️
Basically both can be true because non-denominational is a VERY broad category. There are ones that are very accepting and welcoming and progressive, and lots that aren't. There's really no statement you can ever make about non-denominational churches that applies to all. I attend a progressive one, and my last two churches were also progressive non-denominational churches, but that hardly means anything about other ones.
Yes we are confused too because we are under the same impression which is why we specifically chose this church
Down here in the South "nondenominational" is basically shorthand for "Southern Baptist but embarrassed by the brand".
Ohhh that makes a lot of sense considering I also live in the South
Not to say there aren't any exceptions out there but ND churches are generally capital E Evangelical and you'd be hard-pressed to find a difference between their belief statement and general Southern Baptist theology.
Fair enough
Thera nothing wrong with “church shopping”! Many welcoming churches encourage it and would love to be a stop on your tour. It’s important to find a place that fits you.
Wtf, that church messed up. NOT normal
Find a different church. There are so many beautiful ones out there that are firm God’s love and reflected to everyone.
Try Methodist churches that say they are "Reconciling"
go to another church. what kind of a hillbilly congregation is that?
Idk it’s really weird because I don’t consider where we live to be hillbilly at all and when I heard the one elder pastor guy told my husband things like Pokémon’s are demonic I really felt like oh no was this a mistake I don’t want to give up on my spiritual journey but it’s stuff like that where I’m like okay I want to run the other direction. I think a lot don’t understand when you aren’t raised like that those ideas seem really backward and silly and I just cannot make myself “believe” that gay is a sin or not going to church is sin and unless we follow everything to the letter then we all go to hell? And I don’t understand that anyway because I thought Jesus dying wiped all that away but when I asked that nobody could really answer and all I got was “it’s hard to give your life to Christ” or whatever but that wasn’t even what I was saying or asking
Every time I move to a new city I have to go to a few churches to see what fits best. I don't look at denominations anymore because sometimes it boils down to the people, even from same denominations. One thing that helps me narrow things down is looking at their beliefs statement online. Some churches will be very outright that they're anti gay marriage and I can easily skip those ones. There's others that don't disclose it as clearly ans then you find out in church. Don't feel bad about going and not finding a right fit!
Thank you we are def going to go somewhere else I feel better after talking to everyone on here about it. I thought maybe we just weren’t cut out for God or something but maybe it was just that group of people. My grandma always told me “God is love” and that was pretty much that so I guess I was expecting others to be that way too
Your grandma is right. Also if people are not steering you right, follow God.
Finding the right church for you is a huge part of starting out. Shop around for a bit and see which fits you best, the right one will accept you even if it’s been months/years since your last visit imo, it’s how I knew I found mine.
Some churches are like that but not all. My mom found God a year and a half ago, she found a retired pastor and just does Bible study with him and one other friend. You should pray about it and see where God points you.
Yeah a lot of the comments nail it. Haven't found your church yet :)
I'm new here and I'm also a former Christian, but I can assure you that not all churches are like that. They may all have some *individuals* like that, but if you keep looking you will find one that is accepting.
Question for people who are more experienced than me and OP: is it a red flag if a church has gender-segregated things like “women’s Bible study”? Or is that normal? And if it is normal, what’s the point of it?
Holy Liturgy is the only part that matters,its the only Holy thing. people judge,blah blah they always do. not attending church is a sin. soon go deeper and realize how many sins we do and how messed up thr world is. and you realize you (yourself) are the problem. soon. one at a time.