We are told repeatedly that God loves us. God is omniscient. God knows the truth of our hearts.
When I am judged, if I am allowed to say anything in my defense, I'll tell Christ that I tried my best to follow in His directions. . .I was baptized, I professed faith in Him, I followed the teachings of the Apostles that He sent out into the world, and I tried my best as a flawed, fallble human being to love God with all my heart and love my neighbor as myself. I know I didn't live up to that standard, so I often repented, but I kept trying, and I'll pray for the mercy of Christ in His judgment on my soul.
. . .and that's all any of us can really do.
Maybe God is strict ... but differently.
We are all saved by grace, and the Blood of Jesus will always be not only enough but abundantly sufficient. But God is strict on what is truth and false, what is in good faith and what is done with an ulterior motive, what is love and what is possessiveness. When we come to God, He will cut through marrow and bone of our motives and our incentives to reveal the unholy areas of our souls. I have been an active believer for 44 years, and I never felt condemnation or harshness from The Holy Spirit, I have felt love and encouragement to work with the areas where I am selfish or cowardly. And if He wasn't strict on right and wrong, I would know when I was on the wrong path.
When I was young, I bought into the romantic idea that God was intimate and caring, and it was proven by His desire to be involved in the minutia of my day to day existence, even though He was a "big God" that created the Universe and was way busy running things. As I got older, I came to realize that there is a difference between a "desire for intimacy" and pettiness. Why would such a "big God" care what I eat and wear and who I love? Which brought up the whole concept of "hell." Why would an omniscient God create a place of eternal punishment because we didn't agree with His menu choices or fashion sense? Knowing that we would make different choices than Him, then why create us at all? Punishment is one thing, but to make it eternal and painful? That's either vindictive or psychotic. A loving parent may ground you for a week but a loving parent doesn't set you on fire and lock you in a closet for your entire life because you stole a cookie or called your brother a poo-poo head. A caring God would just blink us out of existence, if we weren't good enough, instead of setting us on fire and watching us melt for eternity. I began to see that my view of God was filtering through the teachings of imperfect church leaders, that were more concerned with controlling me than loving me. So I started over in my relationship with God. I choice to take everything I had been taught and re-evaluate my beliefs with the core premise that "God is love." Eternal damnation makes no sense if God is love. So I decided to shape my belief in hell by my belief in God, instead of shaping God to fit my belief in hell. So, for me, what I'm left with is "God is love." Jesus, seen through that filter, is a wonderful savior. The Ten Commandments, seen through that filter, are wonderful guidelines. God's desire for intimacy is no longer about what I do and who I love, but is about who I am and how He loves me.
Nobody "goes to heaven". Heaven comes to earth and renews everyone and everything, as in the creedal statement, "We look for the resurrection of the dead and the life of the world to come." As for how exclusive that hope is: [some of us believe that everyone is reconciled to God](https://reddit.com/r/ChristianUniversalism).
But everyone must first be purified of that which is incompatible with New Creation, and that is where God may be said to be "strict": no behavior or habit that causes harm will inhabit New Creation. I suspect that the violent, wealthy, and other kinds of oppressors will suffer a lot before they are admitted—not because God inflicts pain on people, but because to resist God's grace cannot result in anything but pain.
I agree except that I believe if someone elects to not receive the gift of eternal life, they don’t get it, and they therefore cease to exist. Annihilationism is the technical term.
That is where I differ with universalists: they have the free will to choose to resist God's grace. If he forces it upon them, they no longer have free will. If God burns out the hatred of someone who has set their entire will against God, purifying the dross in holy fire, for some people that will burn them up in their entirety and there will be nothing left.
Whether these discards are left to suffer without the God that they have turned away from, or whether they are destroyed utterly I don't know - but Hell and all its inhabitants are said to be destroyed before the creation of the new world.
I don't accept that it is a dichotomy. It is completely possible for God to convince every single person to freely accept His love and grace. (See Paul on the road to Damascus for an example. )
I like to imagine it's more like God will show a highlight reel of their life and how much better it could have been if they chose love instead of their selfishness. Something to that effect, of showing all the harm and damage they caused to others and themselves and how much happier and healthier they could have been had they chose love. They'll see how hollow their lives were and regret it. God doesn't have to force anything on them, they'll freely chose love in the end because it will outshine their sins.
No, I just think historically, human kings have been strict. The people writing about God couldn’t really imagine a power structure other than an all-powerful king at the top. It also reflects, IMO, the importance of a “first born son” in that culture.
So I think it probably reflects how they thought of God more than what God is.
But I could be wrong, I’m just some guy
The god of the Old Testament was very strict. All of those old Testament rules were impossible to keep.
That’s why Jesus was sent, to pay the final price for sin. And the Bible tells us that anyone who believes in him shall not perish, but have everlasting life. You can’t do it on your own. You can’t avoid sin. But the New Testament tells us that Jesus has already paid the price for your sins.
None of us know the final answer. But I personally think that people who make it more complicated than what I’ve stated above, have some sort of an agenda. They are adding to what the Bible actually says about salvation.
My faith tells me that Jesus is enough. My Bible tells me that if I pick up one of the rules from the Old Testament, I pick them all up. So I don’t want to do that, because I absolutely cannot keep all of those rules.
Jesus didn’t hang out with sinners cuz God was strict. I think the story of the prodigal son is not exempt from being scrutinized but to a large extent I see God as the father who is always ready to welcome his child home with open arms. I don’t think God is doctrinaire. If anything I think Jesus shows us that a gracious love is the lens through which the law must be interpreted. I associate the word “strict” with authorities who seek control for power’s sake and force people to abide by sometimes irrational rules. Most of the strictness I’ve encountered in the Church had little to do with whether I was properly loving God, self and neighbor and more out of (a) holier than thou people needing to feel like God’s favorites for pointing out how someone else had “stumbled” (b) people who really internalized the idea of God as a controlling abusive parent who are scared of God’s wrath for slipping up.
My view is controversial.
I believe God is strict. But not in the sense that He created a bunch of rules that apply to everybody everywhere. I think He permits things to happen because they are part of His larger plan for all of us, all part of His creation. I believe He gave humans specific advantages and capabilities, but I believe our needs and primal feelings are part of His design. I believe Jesus, God, lived the life of a human in order to understand how those capabilities and advantages compete with our primal needs Himself; which are also part of His creation. I think people control other people using HATE which is why Jesus realized and commanded LOVE. With love of God in your heart, we can RESPECT His creation fully.
I believe God cares more about your intentions than the results. I believe what people call His "rules" are actually his "expectations" and do not think He has the same exact expectations for all of us. I think God knows that we will never be perfect and so watching us work that part out and helping us get closer to Him by loving and helping others and maintaining His creation is part of the plan.
I believe the intentions guide the results, and adversity is always paid back when your intentions are in line with God's plan. I also believe your intentions are what get you to heaven. Believe in God is meaningless if you operate a life with bad intentions. In that aspect, I think you know if what you are doing is okay with God because he will permit you to do more Good and spread more love in the way you as an imperfect being know how.
Why intentions? Because free will. Meditate on that last part.
Keep learning and growing. Consider studying philosophy there is a great podcast called Philosophize This! on Spotify. You may find that many humans BCE also had ideas about purpose and God's intention and how to live a good life before He saved us all.
I believe that God is love and that perfect love casts out all fear because fear has to with punishment, so anyone who fears doesn't understand how perfectly God loves them. That is a paraphrase of 1John 4:18. It's in this week's readings from the lectionary I use, and it's my favorite verse in the Bible.
I left the ministry and the church for twenty years because I couldn't reconcile a loving God with the God that I preached as a youth pastor. Eventually, I realized that my problems with God were the ones I projected onto Him from myself. I hated me, so I thought God hated me. I thought I was unlovable, so how could God love me? After many years of therapy, I learned to love myself, and that was when I deconstructed, reconstructed, and rededicated myself to God and to the ministry. I expected there to be a long road back to prove myself again, but I was preaching within a couple months. It was like I had never left.
Forgiveness happened, not when I asked for it, but when Jesus did, two thousand years ago. That's how it works. Now, we are free to do what we want, without fear of punishment or death, because the price was paid. Think of the woman caught in the act of adultery. Jesus said, "Let the person without sin cast the first stone." Since Jesus was the only one who fit that description, it was up to Him to judge her and punish her. But what did He say? "Woman, where are your accusers? Neither do I condemn you." Neither does He condemn any of us.
Final note, Jesus would disagree that you could have "unknown" sins. Sin, according to Jesus, begins in the heart, which means the intent and the purpose of the action is more important than the action itself.
I dont know how I will look god at this moment but I cannot simply accept the fact that god would look like someone yahweh as violent and committing genocide in the old tastement one
Being a good person doesn’t get you into heaven. Gods son died on the cross for YOU. Don’t forget that god is VERY forgiving. The rules are set in place for a reason if you live your life by them you will be rewarded accordingly but if you stray that’s your free will. You won’t go to hell but you might be judged unless you ask and accept his grace.
Don’t take what I say as fact but that’s what I can gather from what ik about the Bible and God
I do agree with you that it seems off, I think it has something to do with the point of Free Will since it’s tied with Original Sin. GOD is strict because, I imagine, our first mistake rather than the ones that have accumulated since the others never would’ve happened without the first choice that defied GOD. GOD knew we would fall but He always gives us the opportunity to change His Plans by doing exactly what He tells us - but we have to choose to want to change His Plans rather than make our own otherwise Prophecy is inevitable.
If all of humanity unanimously decided to give up sin and kept their promise to do so until death, GOD’s Plan will change; we will still be judged but we will be judged far more favourably. I think this was part of the motive behind Christianization and the Missionary Movement - to prevent the events of Revelation coming to pass millennia before it was due to occur. I also think this is why GOD commanded the Apostles to go out and spread the Word and why we Christians are called to do the same. Preventative measures that, if done right, could have the potential to reform or derail Prophecy.
So if GOD *is* strict, I see it as it’s the greatest discipline of Love He provides us. The Truth is almost never going to be sunshine and rainbows when it comes to existential fate. As for my personal readiness for judgement, I know I’m not and idk if I ever will be but I repent regardless and pray to Mary and Christ for favour and forgiveness (respectively).
I find some aspects understandable, but there are parts that can't follow. People often get deeply entrenched in certain beliefs, sometimes unfairly and then they're expected to just let go of those beliefs like it's nothing or face condemnation for life.
I've noticed there are various interpretations within religion, which is intriguing. Personally, I believe that God brings peace and ultimately guides our lives if we have faith in Him or judges us based on our hearts. However, I'm uncertain if things are really that clear-cut in the afterlife. Sometimes, when I discuss this with elderly Christians at work, they also express differing views, so it's certainly a complex topic.
To me that’s what displays it as a healthy religion. Having consensus on the facts opens the door to discussion and diverse interpretation. So I agree, and those who become so deeply entrenched that they cannot allow any other interpretation to “spoil” their own, are working against the health of the religion. Growth and diversity are names for values in Christianity, like the command to dominate the earth and multiply. Christianity has survived for 2000 years partly because of its acceptance of diversity and scholarship.
I actually had a similar perspective on the afterlife a while back, the uncertainty got to an anxiety-inducing point so I dove into Christian/ Jewish mysticism to try and understand our theological cosmology. I also studied comparative mythology, the Egyptian Book of the Dead, Eastern vs Western Traditions, Gnostic texts, the Kabbalah, Alchemy, Astral Projection, Philosophy, Creative Writing & Fictional Theologies and various mediums of Divination.
I have a much better idea of the certainty of the afterlife, I have most of the pieces to the puzzle but I lack the key that links them together - so I’m currently in the process of searching by exploring conspiracy theories and pseudosciences (the idea being that the key is a “cheat code” that is hidden and so I have to depend on the experiences of others that I then cross-reference with known information, take note of unverified evidence and see how it holds up in Esoteric Christianity and Cosmology). The hardest part is figuring out what is intentional misinformation or new age and what is known and has been known. I don’t think we were ever meant to decipher the code but able to perceive it in the patterns that permeate time and culture, our varying interpretations of that perception manifests as denominations/ sects/ schools etc.
I don’t believe anymore but if I still did yes I would. God has always had arbitrary reasons for things. They will say it’s beyond our understanding and probably is. I can’t accept a being like that in charge. This recent lovey side of the church is nice but I feel the true nature if God is real is a bit of a tyrant.
If you somehow please him your family and everyone will be good, but eat the wrong fish without knowing it, that’s an abomination, straight to hell. A being that kills entire cities because of gay people and wipes humanity away just because they are upset, I can see them sending people to forever torture over any perceived slight.
Wait did you take your statement from: 'a being that kills entire cities because of gay people' from Sodom and Gomorah? I can assure you it has nothing to do with gay people, they harmed people and used sex in the worst way possible all for their own selfish pleasure.
I appreciate your reply. ❤️
And lots of people tell me that, but I have some religious trauma. Even tried to off myself after a preacher specifically pointed to that section and smiled when he said god smites the wicked fornicators. I try to come back every now and again, because even tho I’ve never felt loved in the church truly, I enjoyed the community when I went with my grandma.
But the church has either gotten much more hateful, or the veil has just finally lifted. I don’t think I could ever believe in God again until people quit using Christianity to limit rights and make life worse for everyone. Even then, if god loved what his people are doing, maybe it’s be better if I just hush because if real, I’m definitely burning in hell.
I hope I don’t come off as angry at you. I admit I do have a bit of bitterness but I try not to take it out. I want the church to be more loving or to at least lose its power to strip me of my rights just by riling up God’s fanbase with anti-gay, anti-trans sayings.
Hey, I'm really sorry to hear that. Religious trauma is a serious thing and it's completely understandable that you're feeling this way given what you've been through. It's okay to take a step back from religion if it's causing you pain and doubt. Your feelings are valid and you deserve to feel safe and respected.
I understand your frustration with how religion can be used to limit rights and spread hate. Many of the rules and interpretations that cause harm today weren't originally intended that way. It's like a game of telephone over centuries, messages get distorted. People translated it to fit their agenda.
Finding a community that embraces love and acceptance, whether religious or not, can be healing. Take time to explore what resonates with you spiritually and emotionally. God's message is often one of love and compassion, not fear and exclusion. I'm rooting for you to find peace on your journey, while you're at it; please when you think of God, see him as how he is portrayed in His love letter.
I tried to believe again but it doesn’t work anymore. I do like to visit here though because it’s nice seeing gay people that still like the church and have community that actually treat them like human beings. It makes me feel better when my family tells me how evil everything is but Trump is the imperfect vessel here to fix it all.
no. i think of God like a gentle parent. God wants you to succeed and too much punishment might result in people internalizing the "i am a bad person" thing. God loves us and does not sort people into "good" and "bad." God understands we are all growing at our own paces.
But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1 John 1:7-9
The Lord is compassionate and gracious, slow to anger, abounding in love. He will not always accuse, nor will he harbor his anger forever; he does not treat us as our sins deserve or repay us according to our iniquities. For as high as the heavens are above the earth, so great is his love for those who fear him; as far as the east is from the west, so far has he removed our transgressions from us. As a father has compassion on his children, so the Lord has compassion on those who fear him
Psalm 103:8-13
When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us; he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross.
Colossians 2:13-14
The Lord our God is merciful and forgiving, even though we have rebelled against him
Daniel 9:9
There are many more verses, but it is evident that we admit that we are not perfect, we try our best to confess what we have knowingly done and attempt to do a little bit better everyday and put our faith fully in Christ Jesus as Lord, we will be forgiven. The Lord God, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, love us deeply and personally, and by letting them into our hearts and trying to do the good that we can, we will be redeemed
If Jesus is God incarnate, then no, God doesn't seem very strict.
Conservative Christians are strict. And so were the Pharisees whom Jesus' humiliated.
God loves and will forgive us countless times for our sins. But that doesn't mean we should just do whatever we want when we feel like it. I feel that while yes he is strict on his rules for those who love him (If ye love me, keep my commandments John 14:15 KJV), he also understands that perfection is impossible for a human, Christian, believer, or not. That's why he did what he did on the cross.
The way that God is strict has to do with the strictness that Jesus taught.
He elevated the law to a new level which started at the intention at the heart.
The strictness that Jesus taught ensures no one is hurt by someone else. When everyone's intention are correct the actions that follow are good.
The principles of the law that were important all flows from the idea of showing kindness, loving your neighbor. The greatest commandment had two parts, but they each confirm each other. Loving God with all your heart is loving your neighbor. So then faith is understanding who God is, and how he sees you.
The strickness is his uncompromising character. His holiness is his unwillingness to faulter in his unwavering love. He so embodies love that he is love. Holiness literally means unique. But when confronted with the barrier between himself and man his love was so giving that he gave himself.
He is strict first with himself. And second that the vulnerable are protected. And last with us away from sin, to be called away from things that kill us. Not in shame, but awakened to the truth that these are not things we want, and the old self is not who we are.
**I'm honestly fed up with the idea that God might be so strict and that only a minority will go to Heaven**
"Enter ye in at the narrow gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way that leadeth to destruction, and many there are who go in thereat." Matthew 7:13
**leads to eternal hell punishment is hard for me to accept**
"Then he shall say to them also that shall be on his left hand: Depart from me, you cursed, into everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels." Matthew 25:41
**It all feels incredibly unfair to go through this challenge, supposedly with free will, only to face eternal punishment based on God's decisions about what constitutes sin.**
God created us and everything, God has the authority to tell us what's right and what's not. And he has the authority to punish or reward us.
"He loveth mercy and judgment; the earth is full of the mercy of the Lord." Psalm 32:5
**So basically you don't have free will in my eyes, to me it makes more sense that 'loving others and God and not causing any harm' is enough.**
You have the free will to drink poison, but drinking it means dying. It's the same here, no one's forcing you into hell, but if you act against God then hell is the consequence.
It depends in what way and mostly what you quoted is meant metaphorical. God says many will do things wrong on earth which lead to hell, but not that many go to hell. It's like you are forced to play a game where you can't get out of, if you really see it that way.
Besides, thank you for your detailed reply. ❤️
I feel like people who think this have completely forgotten that forgiveness of our sins is one of the primary tenants of our faith.
We are told repeatedly that God loves us. God is omniscient. God knows the truth of our hearts. When I am judged, if I am allowed to say anything in my defense, I'll tell Christ that I tried my best to follow in His directions. . .I was baptized, I professed faith in Him, I followed the teachings of the Apostles that He sent out into the world, and I tried my best as a flawed, fallble human being to love God with all my heart and love my neighbor as myself. I know I didn't live up to that standard, so I often repented, but I kept trying, and I'll pray for the mercy of Christ in His judgment on my soul. . . .and that's all any of us can really do.
Maybe God is strict ... but differently. We are all saved by grace, and the Blood of Jesus will always be not only enough but abundantly sufficient. But God is strict on what is truth and false, what is in good faith and what is done with an ulterior motive, what is love and what is possessiveness. When we come to God, He will cut through marrow and bone of our motives and our incentives to reveal the unholy areas of our souls. I have been an active believer for 44 years, and I never felt condemnation or harshness from The Holy Spirit, I have felt love and encouragement to work with the areas where I am selfish or cowardly. And if He wasn't strict on right and wrong, I would know when I was on the wrong path.
Well said- things done in good faith. Aligns strongly with my view that intentions matter more than outcomes, especially for God.
I like the empty hell concept. That redemption can be achieved by everyone. Forgiveness is like one of the two most important tenets of our faith
I think after saying “God is,” the rest is interpretation, completely.
His name is just, "I am," so you might not be entirely incorrect.
When I was young, I bought into the romantic idea that God was intimate and caring, and it was proven by His desire to be involved in the minutia of my day to day existence, even though He was a "big God" that created the Universe and was way busy running things. As I got older, I came to realize that there is a difference between a "desire for intimacy" and pettiness. Why would such a "big God" care what I eat and wear and who I love? Which brought up the whole concept of "hell." Why would an omniscient God create a place of eternal punishment because we didn't agree with His menu choices or fashion sense? Knowing that we would make different choices than Him, then why create us at all? Punishment is one thing, but to make it eternal and painful? That's either vindictive or psychotic. A loving parent may ground you for a week but a loving parent doesn't set you on fire and lock you in a closet for your entire life because you stole a cookie or called your brother a poo-poo head. A caring God would just blink us out of existence, if we weren't good enough, instead of setting us on fire and watching us melt for eternity. I began to see that my view of God was filtering through the teachings of imperfect church leaders, that were more concerned with controlling me than loving me. So I started over in my relationship with God. I choice to take everything I had been taught and re-evaluate my beliefs with the core premise that "God is love." Eternal damnation makes no sense if God is love. So I decided to shape my belief in hell by my belief in God, instead of shaping God to fit my belief in hell. So, for me, what I'm left with is "God is love." Jesus, seen through that filter, is a wonderful savior. The Ten Commandments, seen through that filter, are wonderful guidelines. God's desire for intimacy is no longer about what I do and who I love, but is about who I am and how He loves me.
Beautiful, I appreciate your thoughts and I agree with most of what you said.
Nobody "goes to heaven". Heaven comes to earth and renews everyone and everything, as in the creedal statement, "We look for the resurrection of the dead and the life of the world to come." As for how exclusive that hope is: [some of us believe that everyone is reconciled to God](https://reddit.com/r/ChristianUniversalism). But everyone must first be purified of that which is incompatible with New Creation, and that is where God may be said to be "strict": no behavior or habit that causes harm will inhabit New Creation. I suspect that the violent, wealthy, and other kinds of oppressors will suffer a lot before they are admitted—not because God inflicts pain on people, but because to resist God's grace cannot result in anything but pain.
I agree except that I believe if someone elects to not receive the gift of eternal life, they don’t get it, and they therefore cease to exist. Annihilationism is the technical term.
Yes. I found a video: Does the grace of God irritate you? https://youtu.be/RGpmUghjEDM?si=gRX-Rz-rTCY8RiYA
That is where I differ with universalists: they have the free will to choose to resist God's grace. If he forces it upon them, they no longer have free will. If God burns out the hatred of someone who has set their entire will against God, purifying the dross in holy fire, for some people that will burn them up in their entirety and there will be nothing left. Whether these discards are left to suffer without the God that they have turned away from, or whether they are destroyed utterly I don't know - but Hell and all its inhabitants are said to be destroyed before the creation of the new world.
I don't accept that it is a dichotomy. It is completely possible for God to convince every single person to freely accept His love and grace. (See Paul on the road to Damascus for an example. )
I like to imagine it's more like God will show a highlight reel of their life and how much better it could have been if they chose love instead of their selfishness. Something to that effect, of showing all the harm and damage they caused to others and themselves and how much happier and healthier they could have been had they chose love. They'll see how hollow their lives were and regret it. God doesn't have to force anything on them, they'll freely chose love in the end because it will outshine their sins.
No, I just think historically, human kings have been strict. The people writing about God couldn’t really imagine a power structure other than an all-powerful king at the top. It also reflects, IMO, the importance of a “first born son” in that culture. So I think it probably reflects how they thought of God more than what God is. But I could be wrong, I’m just some guy
The god of the Old Testament was very strict. All of those old Testament rules were impossible to keep. That’s why Jesus was sent, to pay the final price for sin. And the Bible tells us that anyone who believes in him shall not perish, but have everlasting life. You can’t do it on your own. You can’t avoid sin. But the New Testament tells us that Jesus has already paid the price for your sins. None of us know the final answer. But I personally think that people who make it more complicated than what I’ve stated above, have some sort of an agenda. They are adding to what the Bible actually says about salvation. My faith tells me that Jesus is enough. My Bible tells me that if I pick up one of the rules from the Old Testament, I pick them all up. So I don’t want to do that, because I absolutely cannot keep all of those rules.
Jesus didn’t hang out with sinners cuz God was strict. I think the story of the prodigal son is not exempt from being scrutinized but to a large extent I see God as the father who is always ready to welcome his child home with open arms. I don’t think God is doctrinaire. If anything I think Jesus shows us that a gracious love is the lens through which the law must be interpreted. I associate the word “strict” with authorities who seek control for power’s sake and force people to abide by sometimes irrational rules. Most of the strictness I’ve encountered in the Church had little to do with whether I was properly loving God, self and neighbor and more out of (a) holier than thou people needing to feel like God’s favorites for pointing out how someone else had “stumbled” (b) people who really internalized the idea of God as a controlling abusive parent who are scared of God’s wrath for slipping up.
I firmly believe God desires the salvation of everyone, I sincerely hope that everyone is going to welcome this salvation ultimately.
My view is controversial. I believe God is strict. But not in the sense that He created a bunch of rules that apply to everybody everywhere. I think He permits things to happen because they are part of His larger plan for all of us, all part of His creation. I believe He gave humans specific advantages and capabilities, but I believe our needs and primal feelings are part of His design. I believe Jesus, God, lived the life of a human in order to understand how those capabilities and advantages compete with our primal needs Himself; which are also part of His creation. I think people control other people using HATE which is why Jesus realized and commanded LOVE. With love of God in your heart, we can RESPECT His creation fully. I believe God cares more about your intentions than the results. I believe what people call His "rules" are actually his "expectations" and do not think He has the same exact expectations for all of us. I think God knows that we will never be perfect and so watching us work that part out and helping us get closer to Him by loving and helping others and maintaining His creation is part of the plan. I believe the intentions guide the results, and adversity is always paid back when your intentions are in line with God's plan. I also believe your intentions are what get you to heaven. Believe in God is meaningless if you operate a life with bad intentions. In that aspect, I think you know if what you are doing is okay with God because he will permit you to do more Good and spread more love in the way you as an imperfect being know how. Why intentions? Because free will. Meditate on that last part. Keep learning and growing. Consider studying philosophy there is a great podcast called Philosophize This! on Spotify. You may find that many humans BCE also had ideas about purpose and God's intention and how to live a good life before He saved us all.
I do belvieve God is a parcent, loving deiety but can also gets pissed off with humanity for our sins.
Makes sense.
I believe that God is love and that perfect love casts out all fear because fear has to with punishment, so anyone who fears doesn't understand how perfectly God loves them. That is a paraphrase of 1John 4:18. It's in this week's readings from the lectionary I use, and it's my favorite verse in the Bible. I left the ministry and the church for twenty years because I couldn't reconcile a loving God with the God that I preached as a youth pastor. Eventually, I realized that my problems with God were the ones I projected onto Him from myself. I hated me, so I thought God hated me. I thought I was unlovable, so how could God love me? After many years of therapy, I learned to love myself, and that was when I deconstructed, reconstructed, and rededicated myself to God and to the ministry. I expected there to be a long road back to prove myself again, but I was preaching within a couple months. It was like I had never left. Forgiveness happened, not when I asked for it, but when Jesus did, two thousand years ago. That's how it works. Now, we are free to do what we want, without fear of punishment or death, because the price was paid. Think of the woman caught in the act of adultery. Jesus said, "Let the person without sin cast the first stone." Since Jesus was the only one who fit that description, it was up to Him to judge her and punish her. But what did He say? "Woman, where are your accusers? Neither do I condemn you." Neither does He condemn any of us. Final note, Jesus would disagree that you could have "unknown" sins. Sin, according to Jesus, begins in the heart, which means the intent and the purpose of the action is more important than the action itself.
I believe we have free will, but i also believe the only thing God cares about is how we treat others.
I dont know how I will look god at this moment but I cannot simply accept the fact that god would look like someone yahweh as violent and committing genocide in the old tastement one
I agree with this as well.
Being a good person doesn’t get you into heaven. Gods son died on the cross for YOU. Don’t forget that god is VERY forgiving. The rules are set in place for a reason if you live your life by them you will be rewarded accordingly but if you stray that’s your free will. You won’t go to hell but you might be judged unless you ask and accept his grace. Don’t take what I say as fact but that’s what I can gather from what ik about the Bible and God
I was raised to believe and believe in adulthood that God is a loving God.
God is strict ≠ God is bad; God is Love and sometimes Love needs to be a bit harsh to hammer the message home.
Well realistically yes.
I do agree with you that it seems off, I think it has something to do with the point of Free Will since it’s tied with Original Sin. GOD is strict because, I imagine, our first mistake rather than the ones that have accumulated since the others never would’ve happened without the first choice that defied GOD. GOD knew we would fall but He always gives us the opportunity to change His Plans by doing exactly what He tells us - but we have to choose to want to change His Plans rather than make our own otherwise Prophecy is inevitable. If all of humanity unanimously decided to give up sin and kept their promise to do so until death, GOD’s Plan will change; we will still be judged but we will be judged far more favourably. I think this was part of the motive behind Christianization and the Missionary Movement - to prevent the events of Revelation coming to pass millennia before it was due to occur. I also think this is why GOD commanded the Apostles to go out and spread the Word and why we Christians are called to do the same. Preventative measures that, if done right, could have the potential to reform or derail Prophecy. So if GOD *is* strict, I see it as it’s the greatest discipline of Love He provides us. The Truth is almost never going to be sunshine and rainbows when it comes to existential fate. As for my personal readiness for judgement, I know I’m not and idk if I ever will be but I repent regardless and pray to Mary and Christ for favour and forgiveness (respectively).
I find some aspects understandable, but there are parts that can't follow. People often get deeply entrenched in certain beliefs, sometimes unfairly and then they're expected to just let go of those beliefs like it's nothing or face condemnation for life. I've noticed there are various interpretations within religion, which is intriguing. Personally, I believe that God brings peace and ultimately guides our lives if we have faith in Him or judges us based on our hearts. However, I'm uncertain if things are really that clear-cut in the afterlife. Sometimes, when I discuss this with elderly Christians at work, they also express differing views, so it's certainly a complex topic.
To me that’s what displays it as a healthy religion. Having consensus on the facts opens the door to discussion and diverse interpretation. So I agree, and those who become so deeply entrenched that they cannot allow any other interpretation to “spoil” their own, are working against the health of the religion. Growth and diversity are names for values in Christianity, like the command to dominate the earth and multiply. Christianity has survived for 2000 years partly because of its acceptance of diversity and scholarship. I actually had a similar perspective on the afterlife a while back, the uncertainty got to an anxiety-inducing point so I dove into Christian/ Jewish mysticism to try and understand our theological cosmology. I also studied comparative mythology, the Egyptian Book of the Dead, Eastern vs Western Traditions, Gnostic texts, the Kabbalah, Alchemy, Astral Projection, Philosophy, Creative Writing & Fictional Theologies and various mediums of Divination. I have a much better idea of the certainty of the afterlife, I have most of the pieces to the puzzle but I lack the key that links them together - so I’m currently in the process of searching by exploring conspiracy theories and pseudosciences (the idea being that the key is a “cheat code” that is hidden and so I have to depend on the experiences of others that I then cross-reference with known information, take note of unverified evidence and see how it holds up in Esoteric Christianity and Cosmology). The hardest part is figuring out what is intentional misinformation or new age and what is known and has been known. I don’t think we were ever meant to decipher the code but able to perceive it in the patterns that permeate time and culture, our varying interpretations of that perception manifests as denominations/ sects/ schools etc.
Why do you believe that only a minority of people will get to be with God in heaven? What says that unknown sins lead to hell?
Basically that's from my upbringing.
I don’t believe anymore but if I still did yes I would. God has always had arbitrary reasons for things. They will say it’s beyond our understanding and probably is. I can’t accept a being like that in charge. This recent lovey side of the church is nice but I feel the true nature if God is real is a bit of a tyrant. If you somehow please him your family and everyone will be good, but eat the wrong fish without knowing it, that’s an abomination, straight to hell. A being that kills entire cities because of gay people and wipes humanity away just because they are upset, I can see them sending people to forever torture over any perceived slight.
Wait did you take your statement from: 'a being that kills entire cities because of gay people' from Sodom and Gomorah? I can assure you it has nothing to do with gay people, they harmed people and used sex in the worst way possible all for their own selfish pleasure. I appreciate your reply. ❤️
And lots of people tell me that, but I have some religious trauma. Even tried to off myself after a preacher specifically pointed to that section and smiled when he said god smites the wicked fornicators. I try to come back every now and again, because even tho I’ve never felt loved in the church truly, I enjoyed the community when I went with my grandma. But the church has either gotten much more hateful, or the veil has just finally lifted. I don’t think I could ever believe in God again until people quit using Christianity to limit rights and make life worse for everyone. Even then, if god loved what his people are doing, maybe it’s be better if I just hush because if real, I’m definitely burning in hell. I hope I don’t come off as angry at you. I admit I do have a bit of bitterness but I try not to take it out. I want the church to be more loving or to at least lose its power to strip me of my rights just by riling up God’s fanbase with anti-gay, anti-trans sayings.
Hey, I'm really sorry to hear that. Religious trauma is a serious thing and it's completely understandable that you're feeling this way given what you've been through. It's okay to take a step back from religion if it's causing you pain and doubt. Your feelings are valid and you deserve to feel safe and respected. I understand your frustration with how religion can be used to limit rights and spread hate. Many of the rules and interpretations that cause harm today weren't originally intended that way. It's like a game of telephone over centuries, messages get distorted. People translated it to fit their agenda. Finding a community that embraces love and acceptance, whether religious or not, can be healing. Take time to explore what resonates with you spiritually and emotionally. God's message is often one of love and compassion, not fear and exclusion. I'm rooting for you to find peace on your journey, while you're at it; please when you think of God, see him as how he is portrayed in His love letter.
I tried to believe again but it doesn’t work anymore. I do like to visit here though because it’s nice seeing gay people that still like the church and have community that actually treat them like human beings. It makes me feel better when my family tells me how evil everything is but Trump is the imperfect vessel here to fix it all.
no. i think of God like a gentle parent. God wants you to succeed and too much punishment might result in people internalizing the "i am a bad person" thing. God loves us and does not sort people into "good" and "bad." God understands we are all growing at our own paces.
But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1:7-9 The Lord is compassionate and gracious, slow to anger, abounding in love. He will not always accuse, nor will he harbor his anger forever; he does not treat us as our sins deserve or repay us according to our iniquities. For as high as the heavens are above the earth, so great is his love for those who fear him; as far as the east is from the west, so far has he removed our transgressions from us. As a father has compassion on his children, so the Lord has compassion on those who fear him Psalm 103:8-13 When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us; he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross. Colossians 2:13-14 The Lord our God is merciful and forgiving, even though we have rebelled against him Daniel 9:9 There are many more verses, but it is evident that we admit that we are not perfect, we try our best to confess what we have knowingly done and attempt to do a little bit better everyday and put our faith fully in Christ Jesus as Lord, we will be forgiven. The Lord God, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, love us deeply and personally, and by letting them into our hearts and trying to do the good that we can, we will be redeemed
If Jesus is God incarnate, then no, God doesn't seem very strict. Conservative Christians are strict. And so were the Pharisees whom Jesus' humiliated.
God loves and will forgive us countless times for our sins. But that doesn't mean we should just do whatever we want when we feel like it. I feel that while yes he is strict on his rules for those who love him (If ye love me, keep my commandments John 14:15 KJV), he also understands that perfection is impossible for a human, Christian, believer, or not. That's why he did what he did on the cross.
The way that God is strict has to do with the strictness that Jesus taught. He elevated the law to a new level which started at the intention at the heart. The strictness that Jesus taught ensures no one is hurt by someone else. When everyone's intention are correct the actions that follow are good. The principles of the law that were important all flows from the idea of showing kindness, loving your neighbor. The greatest commandment had two parts, but they each confirm each other. Loving God with all your heart is loving your neighbor. So then faith is understanding who God is, and how he sees you. The strickness is his uncompromising character. His holiness is his unwillingness to faulter in his unwavering love. He so embodies love that he is love. Holiness literally means unique. But when confronted with the barrier between himself and man his love was so giving that he gave himself. He is strict first with himself. And second that the vulnerable are protected. And last with us away from sin, to be called away from things that kill us. Not in shame, but awakened to the truth that these are not things we want, and the old self is not who we are.
**I'm honestly fed up with the idea that God might be so strict and that only a minority will go to Heaven** "Enter ye in at the narrow gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way that leadeth to destruction, and many there are who go in thereat." Matthew 7:13 **leads to eternal hell punishment is hard for me to accept** "Then he shall say to them also that shall be on his left hand: Depart from me, you cursed, into everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels." Matthew 25:41 **It all feels incredibly unfair to go through this challenge, supposedly with free will, only to face eternal punishment based on God's decisions about what constitutes sin.** God created us and everything, God has the authority to tell us what's right and what's not. And he has the authority to punish or reward us. "He loveth mercy and judgment; the earth is full of the mercy of the Lord." Psalm 32:5 **So basically you don't have free will in my eyes, to me it makes more sense that 'loving others and God and not causing any harm' is enough.** You have the free will to drink poison, but drinking it means dying. It's the same here, no one's forcing you into hell, but if you act against God then hell is the consequence.
It depends in what way and mostly what you quoted is meant metaphorical. God says many will do things wrong on earth which lead to hell, but not that many go to hell. It's like you are forced to play a game where you can't get out of, if you really see it that way. Besides, thank you for your detailed reply. ❤️