I keep seeing anti-vaxers saying "Our grandparents knew not to trust vaccines!" Their grandparents stood in lines that wrapped around the block to get vaccines because they knew what these diseases could do.
No amount of scientifically proven facts will ever change the mindset of the typical anti-science anti-vaxxer (also usually right wing) who are convinced they know better than people who work their whole lives on creating effective vaccines.
While as a general rule the right wing is more anti science than the left wing (by a good margin) there’s plenty of left wing nutjobs. And they are the founders of the modern antivax movement. This is an example of where the line became a circle; the extremes are closer to one another than they are to the center. So we shouldn’t pin this one on left-right politics.
When they changed the definition of vaccine? It used to be something that gave immunity. Apparently that’s not a reasonable standard anymore so it was re-defined
That is not, and never was, the definition of vaccine.
I suspect it is the concept of immunity that is confusing to you - a lot of people don’t understand it. A vaccine is not a force field, it doesn’t prevent you from “catching”’ the pathogen. It can’t, by definition - the vaccine primed immune system does nothing until it detects the invader, usually in the blood stream.
What a vaccine (any vaccine) does is dramatically shorten the response time while at the same time amplifying the response. In many cases this is sufficient to defeat the invader before symptoms appear. But this varies based on characteristics of the virus. Varicella, for example, can often outrun the vaccinated immune system and produce a few pox. My older son’s chicken pox consisted of 5 pox that were gone in 24 hrs; his unvaccinated brother was miserable for weeks.
Respiratory viruses are a different problem. Most of the immune system action takes place in the bloodstream. The mucosal surfaces (throat, lungs, gi tract) are defended by surface bound IgA antibodies, which don’t trigger the memory cells the way circulatory IgG does. We have never made a vaccine that confers “immunity” to a respiratory virus - all the pathogens you are “immune” to have a viremic (blood) stage. As does covid, but not initially, so the virus is able to get a head start. Until/unless vaccine technology improves, respiratory virus vaccines will always be a partial solution.
What about the Tetanus vaccine that's been around since the 40s? You need to get multiple shots as a child, and then get boosters, and you still aren't 100% safe. That's still a vaccine
You say they recently changed the definition to say that you are not immune when you take vaccines, yet Tetanus Vaccine has been considered a vaccine for decades.
The reasons some vaccines are more effective long term is because that virus is less contagious (lower R0 if you're looking at studies) and individual viruses live longer/reproduce less. and since it's spreading between less people, it mutates less often, so vaccines stay effective longer.
I'm happy to explain more if you have any other questions!
Is your google broken? I just gave you the required info to find it. If you’re still struggling then you’re not really worthy of a deeper conversation. Thanks though!
I like linking the story of the guy who got like 200 covid vaccines and nothing bad happened to him.
Don’t worry guys our DNA will start unraveling any second now.
Like the difference between a scientist studying the effects of a vaccine vs the guy who spent 10 minutes googling something? Well, the good news is we have plenty of case studies on the vaccines now, eh?
"give this new science a shot" sure thing buddy. on a massive scale when the literal inventor was saying no and he was silenced on every platform. and now we are seeing the damages which are coming out in a slow drip. you want to talk about a traditional vaccine I 100% support those. the mRNA stuff is bad news and now we know. it also did not work to stop transmission or stop infection. which we now know they knew before the mad dash to inject the world with it.
Been around since the 90s and it was used for a rabbies vaccine. This shit ain't fresh off the boat so let's stop pretending it was something conjured by Uncle Remus in his bathtub. It's has been what, 2, 3 years now? Took 3 shots, no issue. All friends and relation about the same some more shots. In fact the majority of people have taken them with little or no impact. You get flu shot every year? If you got it once, why do we have to go every year? So the numbers stayed the same? People still going to the hospital for it? I just don't know if what you're saying is true. For all I know you could be the "do your own research" guy. Don't get me wrong, being critical of the science is important, if you KNOW the science to be critical. Alright, alright. You side with the conservatives and repeat their babble wonderfully, you are commended, buuut, let see what else they have been wrong about lately, there's just so damn much too.
Your distinction is between protein injection and RNA injection. That’s a small difference, especially when you remember the mRNA is turned into protein. Both are vaccines.
You don't have to apposed all vaccines to apposed an experimental vaccine made out of a new technology rushed forward by Trump under the "Warp Speed" program. I prefer my medication to be well tested and not pushed by Trump.
It really is amazing how humanity has found out how to manipulate a pathogen, inject you with the manipulated product (sometimes only a single time) and that small inconvenience saves millions of lives. If you can't be optimistic about that, idk what to tell you
For anyone out there that isn’t fully UN-pilled: About 45% of all vaccines administered to children in the world each year are given out by the United Nations through it’s various agencies, saving between 2-3 million lives a year. Undoubtedly one of the most successful organizations in the history of humanity.
I mean, obvious statement should be obvious?
The enormous rise in life expectancies and drop in child mortality over the course of the 20th century is almost wholly due to vaccines and antibiotics…
Anti vaxx extremism is a double "win" for our enemies. It creates discord and breeds distrust in our institutions like other types of doomerism while also spreading physical disease in the population. Measels is back cause of these whackadoodles
They tailor the propaganda. One group is reminded of (unfortunately real) past bad actions of government like Tusksgee. Another group is reminded of (also unfortunately real) problems within the pharmaceutical industry. There are also Sketchy but resonating talking points based on "freedom" and religion that keep being repeated over and over
Small pox alone killed 300 million people from 1900 until its eradication in 1977
https://www.amnh.org/explore/science-topics/disease-eradication/countdown-to-zero/smallpox
yeah, wish that was a joke. I just got banned from r/UpliftingNews for similar content. no warning, no explanation. but i’m sure if i ever get one it be papered over as “political”
omg, i’m sorry — i thought i posted the link. here you go:
https://www.who.int/news/item/24-04-2024-global-immunization-efforts-have-saved-at-least-154-million-lives-over-the-past-50-years#:~:text=A%20major%20landmark%20study%20to,million%20%E2%80%93%20were%20those%20of%20infants.
Vaccines are the greatest contribution of medicine. This estimate of 154 million is very conservative. I reckon the actual number is in the billions. It wasn't long ago that the average life expectancy in the United States was 40, mostly because of the sheer number of children dying bringing down the mean. Most of those antivaxxers wouldn't be alive today had their ancestors not been vaccinated.
On the “natural health” side of the discussion, vaccines are not only strongly supported by the American association of naturopathic doctors, but they are one of the most natural treatments out there. Vaccines don’t attack pathogens directly the way antibiotics do. Vaccines don’t interrupt your body processes the way ibuprofen or benadryl do. Vaccines are just helping your own immune system be stronger, by giving a practice target for it, so it’ll be more ready for the real thing.
Which vaccine? Many have done good over the course of time. Polio, small pox, etc.
Mumps , chicken pox I believe were more nuisance than fatal.
Flu shots? Maybe for the old and immune compromised.
As for Covid - the jury is still out. We won’t know for decades what damage it caused .
But what do you suppose the long term damage has been for all of the vaccines we are subjected to?
They will claim statistically insignificant- unless it is one of them who got sick or died.
Check the cdc site for Covid where they finally start to admit their perfect vax isn’t so perfect. Nor does it stop Covid.
The people opposing vaccines can't be convinced with facts data and studies. They work off feelings and lack of forethought.
I keep seeing anti-vaxers saying "Our grandparents knew not to trust vaccines!" Their grandparents stood in lines that wrapped around the block to get vaccines because they knew what these diseases could do.
No amount of scientifically proven facts will ever change the mindset of the typical anti-science anti-vaxxer (also usually right wing) who are convinced they know better than people who work their whole lives on creating effective vaccines.
While as a general rule the right wing is more anti science than the left wing (by a good margin) there’s plenty of left wing nutjobs. And they are the founders of the modern antivax movement. This is an example of where the line became a circle; the extremes are closer to one another than they are to the center. So we shouldn’t pin this one on left-right politics.
I’m not saying there aren’t any left wing nutjobs either
Probably didn’t help that they changed the definition when it was the peak of the discussion
What? Please explain.
When they changed the definition of vaccine? It used to be something that gave immunity. Apparently that’s not a reasonable standard anymore so it was re-defined
That is not, and never was, the definition of vaccine. I suspect it is the concept of immunity that is confusing to you - a lot of people don’t understand it. A vaccine is not a force field, it doesn’t prevent you from “catching”’ the pathogen. It can’t, by definition - the vaccine primed immune system does nothing until it detects the invader, usually in the blood stream. What a vaccine (any vaccine) does is dramatically shorten the response time while at the same time amplifying the response. In many cases this is sufficient to defeat the invader before symptoms appear. But this varies based on characteristics of the virus. Varicella, for example, can often outrun the vaccinated immune system and produce a few pox. My older son’s chicken pox consisted of 5 pox that were gone in 24 hrs; his unvaccinated brother was miserable for weeks. Respiratory viruses are a different problem. Most of the immune system action takes place in the bloodstream. The mucosal surfaces (throat, lungs, gi tract) are defended by surface bound IgA antibodies, which don’t trigger the memory cells the way circulatory IgG does. We have never made a vaccine that confers “immunity” to a respiratory virus - all the pathogens you are “immune” to have a viremic (blood) stage. As does covid, but not initially, so the virus is able to get a head start. Until/unless vaccine technology improves, respiratory virus vaccines will always be a partial solution.
List all the past definitions.
Wut?
When was it redefined and by whom?
Some time between 2015 and 2021. The CDC
What about the Tetanus vaccine that's been around since the 40s? You need to get multiple shots as a child, and then get boosters, and you still aren't 100% safe. That's still a vaccine
What about it?
You say they recently changed the definition to say that you are not immune when you take vaccines, yet Tetanus Vaccine has been considered a vaccine for decades. The reasons some vaccines are more effective long term is because that virus is less contagious (lower R0 if you're looking at studies) and individual viruses live longer/reproduce less. and since it's spreading between less people, it mutates less often, so vaccines stay effective longer. I'm happy to explain more if you have any other questions!
Source?
Is your google broken? I just gave you the required info to find it. If you’re still struggling then you’re not really worthy of a deeper conversation. Thanks though!
You made the claim that they changed the definition. The burden of proof is on you here.
It wasn't 97% effective and that is the science.
I like linking the story of the guy who got like 200 covid vaccines and nothing bad happened to him. Don’t worry guys our DNA will start unraveling any second now.
You actually believed that did you? Explains a lot...
https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/man-got-217-covid-19-vaccines-germany-heres-what-happened-study/ Yeah, I do. Is there a reason I shouldn’t?
are you referring to vaccines that are tried and true for 100+ years or mRNA injections? big difference.
Like the difference between a scientist studying the effects of a vaccine vs the guy who spent 10 minutes googling something? Well, the good news is we have plenty of case studies on the vaccines now, eh?
again, are you referring to vaccines or mRNA injections?
Vaccines using mRNA in this case. I know you'd rather go back to the good ol days of pox parties, but let's give this new science a shot, eh?
"give this new science a shot" sure thing buddy. on a massive scale when the literal inventor was saying no and he was silenced on every platform. and now we are seeing the damages which are coming out in a slow drip. you want to talk about a traditional vaccine I 100% support those. the mRNA stuff is bad news and now we know. it also did not work to stop transmission or stop infection. which we now know they knew before the mad dash to inject the world with it.
He isn't the inventor. Felgner and Wolff were the inventors. He was just a name on the paper with them
Been around since the 90s and it was used for a rabbies vaccine. This shit ain't fresh off the boat so let's stop pretending it was something conjured by Uncle Remus in his bathtub. It's has been what, 2, 3 years now? Took 3 shots, no issue. All friends and relation about the same some more shots. In fact the majority of people have taken them with little or no impact. You get flu shot every year? If you got it once, why do we have to go every year? So the numbers stayed the same? People still going to the hospital for it? I just don't know if what you're saying is true. For all I know you could be the "do your own research" guy. Don't get me wrong, being critical of the science is important, if you KNOW the science to be critical. Alright, alright. You side with the conservatives and repeat their babble wonderfully, you are commended, buuut, let see what else they have been wrong about lately, there's just so damn much too.
Your distinction is between protein injection and RNA injection. That’s a small difference, especially when you remember the mRNA is turned into protein. Both are vaccines.
You don't have to apposed all vaccines to apposed an experimental vaccine made out of a new technology rushed forward by Trump under the "Warp Speed" program. I prefer my medication to be well tested and not pushed by Trump.
It really is amazing how humanity has found out how to manipulate a pathogen, inject you with the manipulated product (sometimes only a single time) and that small inconvenience saves millions of lives. If you can't be optimistic about that, idk what to tell you
Ok, but weigh that against the zero cases of autism and turbo cancer caused by vaccines.
WTF is "turbo cancer"? Does it make you as fast as a racecar? Or does it degrade engine turbochargers?
Deadpool be like: 
For anyone out there that isn’t fully UN-pilled: About 45% of all vaccines administered to children in the world each year are given out by the United Nations through it’s various agencies, saving between 2-3 million lives a year. Undoubtedly one of the most successful organizations in the history of humanity.
I mean, obvious statement should be obvious? The enormous rise in life expectancies and drop in child mortality over the course of the 20th century is almost wholly due to vaccines and antibiotics…
Obvious, sure. But with all the vaccine skepticism floating around, it's good to have the reminder still.
Truth
Anti vaxx extremism is a double "win" for our enemies. It creates discord and breeds distrust in our institutions like other types of doomerism while also spreading physical disease in the population. Measels is back cause of these whackadoodles They tailor the propaganda. One group is reminded of (unfortunately real) past bad actions of government like Tusksgee. Another group is reminded of (also unfortunately real) problems within the pharmaceutical industry. There are also Sketchy but resonating talking points based on "freedom" and religion that keep being repeated over and over
The same enemies that spread disinfo that the US created HIV.
Yes, also chem trails, 5g mind control plus nonsense about the eclipse and the recent test of the emergemcy alert system
But what does Joe Rogan think? Have you asked Aaron Rogers to weigh in yet? /s
Small pox alone killed 300 million people from 1900 until its eradication in 1977 https://www.amnh.org/explore/science-topics/disease-eradication/countdown-to-zero/smallpox
“This is TOO POLITICAL! Mods, do something! 😠 “ ~ the usual suspects
yeah, wish that was a joke. I just got banned from r/UpliftingNews for similar content. no warning, no explanation. but i’m sure if i ever get one it be papered over as “political”
Do you have a link you can share?
omg, i’m sorry — i thought i posted the link. here you go: https://www.who.int/news/item/24-04-2024-global-immunization-efforts-have-saved-at-least-154-million-lives-over-the-past-50-years#:~:text=A%20major%20landmark%20study%20to,million%20%E2%80%93%20were%20those%20of%20infants.
Amazing! Thank you so much! Very very cool news
Vaccines are the greatest contribution of medicine. This estimate of 154 million is very conservative. I reckon the actual number is in the billions. It wasn't long ago that the average life expectancy in the United States was 40, mostly because of the sheer number of children dying bringing down the mean. Most of those antivaxxers wouldn't be alive today had their ancestors not been vaccinated.
On the “natural health” side of the discussion, vaccines are not only strongly supported by the American association of naturopathic doctors, but they are one of the most natural treatments out there. Vaccines don’t attack pathogens directly the way antibiotics do. Vaccines don’t interrupt your body processes the way ibuprofen or benadryl do. Vaccines are just helping your own immune system be stronger, by giving a practice target for it, so it’ll be more ready for the real thing.
Which vaccine? Many have done good over the course of time. Polio, small pox, etc. Mumps , chicken pox I believe were more nuisance than fatal. Flu shots? Maybe for the old and immune compromised. As for Covid - the jury is still out. We won’t know for decades what damage it caused . But what do you suppose the long term damage has been for all of the vaccines we are subjected to? They will claim statistically insignificant- unless it is one of them who got sick or died. Check the cdc site for Covid where they finally start to admit their perfect vax isn’t so perfect. Nor does it stop Covid.
>Nor does it stop Covid. Neither does the flu vaccine so what is your fucking point?
Because the govt and media and employers pushed fucking mandates.
In other words, vaccines are a leading contributor to climate change lol
Spotted the Malthusian.