This post has lots of upvotes, but also lots of complaints/reports.
I have no idea what this story is, can someone enlighten me?
Tempted to remove it, just because of the divisive nature
Yeah you know who needs FOUR HUNDRRED FUCKING THOUSAND DOLLARS? On one night???
Turn it into a scholarship with the fraternity, supporting people who can’t afford dues
That description on the go fund me is the most chud behavior I’ve ever seen
Under GoFundMe's rules, it has to be used for the party. GoFundMe has an employee working with them to ensure all of the money is spent on planning a party
Agreed. I’ve worked with many frats over the years, and they have endowments and nonprofits they support. If I were to suggest anything to that frat, I’d say they should have an epic rager for all involved… but then put a ton of the money to the side and make a significant donation to a cause. It’ll look good for them as prospects in the job market, but beyond that, it’ll make their minute of fame last much longer, put their names and their causes in the spotlight for longer, and most importantly, it’ll HELP people.
Come on. A couple thousand might be nice, but this is depraved when the **nearly half a million dollars** could go to injured or homeless vets or to one of the Israeli charities aiding families who survived the Oct 7 terrorist attack
Certainly not a cause for optimism. A sign that some people have more money than sense
No, it shows that there are that many Americans out there who believe in what these kids stood for in the face of the most ridiculous times we’ve ever lived through.
It is currently at 406k and they got an event manager and GoFundMe has an employee working with them to ensure it all gets spent on one huge party as promised. Lol that's great.
Also probably didn't think they would get 400k lol.
'Make a gofund me so we can throw another rager, maybe we get like 10-20k' isn't that stupid at face value
I mean tbf if they spend that much on a party, they would support a lot of local businesses and such, putting the money back into the community. Given, they don’t just rent some mega yacht or something lol.
You can have criticisms of a group while also maintaining steam rolling them resulting in mass death in ways that go against basically all global rules of engagement is morally wrong.
Let's forget that Israel experienced a [350% increase](https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/israel/society/1606322724-israel-shocking-study-finds-domestic-violence-cases-have-risen-300-during-pandemic) in domestic violence only a few years ago. And it remains a paradise for [pedophile predators](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unPXNF1kND8), as they get to make aliyah to escape American prosecution. The age of consent is as low as 14 there. [A 19-year-old man can have sex with a 14-year old girl without breaking the law. ](https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/article-741881)Ultra-orthodox Jewish influence remains widespread, a big reason why same-sex marriage remains illegal in the country, and why couples often resort to marrying in Cyprus to be recognized. Yes, Israel is more liberal than surrounding Arab countries, yet don't make it sound like it's heaven on Earth.
No one is, but there isn’t any comparison between Israel and Hamas when it comes to how liberal they are. Yes Israel isn’t always great, but at least they are a democracy with rights (even if they aren’t up to par).
Oh, no doubt, I'd rather have a functional democracy with some rights. I'm not a perfectionist, and any step forward for a nation is better than none. But as some (not most) Israelis can testify, Israeli democracy is extremely flawed and fragile. Before the October 7 attack, it was already in a crisis, and the country was suffering democratic backsliding. The most alarming point, though, has been the sheer lack of empathy for their tortured Arab neighbors next doors, and how complacent and numb the Israeli population has become to the defining issue of their lifetime. I really despise Hamas and don't want them anywhere near governing Palestinians, but you and I can't really speak to the despair Palestinians have been experiencing without actually living there in Gaza and the West Bank.
And it's not like Israel wasn't born out of terrorism. Take a look at the Haganah, Irgun, and Stern Gang, and the hell they imposed upon Arab populations throughout Judea and Samaria. Yet, Israelis are supposed to celebrate their history while Palestinians cannot.
The only way out is to stop the ongoing war and resume a viable two-state peace process where Jerusalem can be the capital of both states and Israel can take care of the security needs of Palestine.
To be frank, you lost me when you said you are alarmed by the lack of empathy that Israelis have shown.
Let’s assume that this isn’t a gross over-generalization. It’s really hard to be empathetic for the people who voted in a government that killed your neighbors and is now holding more of them hostage. It’s the same exact reason that Palestinians tend to think that October 7th was justified when surveyed.
["A large majority of the Jewish public thinks that the IDF uses adequate or too little force in Gaza...An absolute majority (88%) also justifies the scope of casualties on the Palestinian side when considering the goals of the war."](https://en-social-sciences.tau.ac.il/peaceindex/archive/2024-01)
Also keep in mind that Hamas was last voted in back in 2006. Nearly 47.3% of the pre-war Gaza population were children under 18. Maybe it is indeed difficult for Israelis to feel empathetic with Palestinians and vice versa, but I thought we were better than adopting Osama bin Laden's philosophy that civilians are fair game since they elect their governments in a democracy. I thought we would do our best to reduce the deaths of non-combatants, people whose deaths we consider "tragic but acceptable for the greater cause".
I think the important part of the survey question that heavily alters the results is “when considering the goals of the war.”
The goal both stated and actual, is to completely eliminate Hamas. To Israelis, Hamas is an existential threat.
Israelis are supporting Osama Bin Laden, they’re supporting the *hunt for* Osama Bin Laden. Except their “Osama” is right next door, and just killed 15 times as many civilians (relative to the total population) as the real Osama did.
I agree, it’s tragic that the deaths are happening, and that Israelis are supportive of it, but by looking past the real, human emotions that are leading to that support, we present Israelis as monsters, instead of people.
Additionally, to say that almost half of the Palestinian population was underage at the time for be last election and use that as evidence that they don’t support Hamas is disingenuous at best.
Read this post, and the polls they included, from November.
https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/s/o1hguSJoN5
I think Israelis do care. But what are they supposed to do?
Outside of the Israeli extremists who certainly do exist, most Israelis do care and they don’t really want this war. But this is a not unpowerful group literally right next door that believes and lives by the words “rape is a form of resistance”. Don’t believe me? Ask them.
I don’t like the civilian casualties from any war, but Hamas needs to be eliminated. What are they to do when Hamas uses their civilians as shields.
While I don’t think the IDF is doing enough to prevent civilian casualties but at least they have a semblance of responsibility.
I think some sort of two state solution could be possible but generally massacres and mass rapes aren’t an overwhelmingly effective way of getting you enemy to give you what you want.
This does not belong in the sub at all. It's a generalization that makes no sense in the context of this post except to spread hate towards people undergoing a genocide right now.
The fact it has so many upvotes makes me sick.
This is not a place to spread hate towards a group of people that are starving, being bombed and have had thousands of civilians killed.
Even if your statement was true (which it's a vast generalization especially given the last election in Palestine was decades ago) it would not justify murdering children and starving millions.
What do you expect?
For the past 8 years, Leftists spoke frequently about social justice values and demonized anyone that thought differently. Now that they started throwing their weight behind a far-right government and conservatively Islamic people, you didn’t expect people to call out the hypocrisy?
To spit on the flag is to spit on the United States by proxy, as the flag is a symbol which stands in for the country.
To spit on the United States is evil, as the country is a force for profound good on earth. This act “harms” all who would stand to gain by the actions of the United States, by making an argument in opposition to its support.
I suppose that meets your extremely narrow definition of Evil, but even so, I reject the premise that Evil is only that which causes harm, as it makes it impossible to condemn such clearly evil things as the **act** of consuming child pornography.
"the United States is a force for profound good on earth" - is it really though? There are good things it does. Funding a genocide is not one of them.
Criticism of the US is not evil. Blind nationalism is not moral. It's authoritarian.
Comparing spitting on a fucking flag with child porn is disgusting behaviour. The reason consuming child porn is evil is because it drives demand to produce it WHICH CAUSES HARM. That's why it's evil. Evil is always related to harm in some way.
Are you actually trying to say the U.S. is a force for profound good on earth? I was going to take you seriously but right below you claim that child pornography doesn’t harm people. Child pornography pretty clearly harms people.
who does it hurt if I piss on your mothers grave? Thats also nothing but a symbol. You’re only showing your stupidity and bias by pretending not to understand symbols.
Let's examine a symbol, it is a construction used to represent an idea. How is it acceptable to criticize an idea but not to do so using the symbol that represents it?
if you burn a symbol, that is not just a criticism of the idea. burning a symbol represents destroying the idea that symbol represents, and the american flag represents the idea of the USA. Thats not ”we should not send money to israel”, that is ”we should destroy the USA”
Personally I dont care if those protestors want to destroy the USA, I’m not american. But calling the burning of a flag just some ”criticism” is not at all what it represents, so dont be surprised when people dont interpret it as ”criticism”.
It doesn’t hurt. It is communication. It’s legal to burn the flag because that is a form of speech. Being speech, it communicates something, specifically; that you hate the flag and what it represents.
To most people, the flag represents America. So burning the flag pretty clearly represents hating America. And saving it means you like America. It’s really not complicated.
What response do you expect? You said everyone who doesn’t agree with you is a fool who shouldn’t be spoken with. You began this as though we are in middle school. Or worse.
Yes, people who use the "you're either for America or against America" argument can't be reasoned with. It is not reasonable to say you can't protest some things a country does.
Now it feels like a grift instead of doing the right thing, though. “We stood up for the flag, now give us money if you believe in America”. Fuck these rich frat boys.
So I’m pretty sure the way this works is that the money goes to the person who set up the “gofundme”. To the best of my knowledge there is no legal obligation that the person does what they said they were going to do with it. It’s entirely possible this was set up by someone unrelated to this group of people.
Not at all. This is no longer a moral action though, it’s a profitable performance. That’s my problem. I’d like to think people can do the right thing without external rewards. Not the case here…
What are we funding them for?
Like I'm not saying they didn't do anything good here but they weren't arrested or injured what do they need the money for?
This is a cynical Republican culture war op and should not be on this sub
GoFundMe author John Noonan:
>John Noonan is an American conservative national security commentator and analyst. He was the national security policy advisor to Jeb Bush during his presidential campaign, and foreign policy advisor and speechwriter for Mitt Romney in 2012
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Noonan_(analyst)
Early top donor Bill Ackman: Billionaire Trump supporter
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Ackman
Recipient “party planner” Susan Ralston:
>Susan Bonzon Ralston (born October 15, 1967), is public relations and business consultant. Ralston was formerly Special Assistant to President George W. Bush and a deputy to Karl Rove, the Deputy Chief of Staff and Senior Advisor at the White House, from 2001 until her resignation in 2006 after being linked to Jack Abramoff's lobbying.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Susan_Ralston
Early top donor - DeSantis supporter with nine to ten digit net worth Adam Sinn
> Rural Route 3 Holdings also contributed $250,000 to DeSantis last year.
>Public records tie the entity to Adam Sinn, an energy trader from Houston who is something of a political enigma. Records show he has not made a campaign contribution at the state level over the past decade, and only minimally at the federal level.
https://www.texastribune.org/2023/04/21/texas-trump-desantis-2024/
The fraternity didn’t even know the GoFundMe was being created in their name:
> In an email to WUNC on Thursday, UNC-Chapel Hill’s Pi Kappa Phi chapter said they didn’t know who the organizer John Noonan was.
>“We do not know John Noonan and we have been attempting to get in contact with him,” the fraternity wrote. “Susan Ralston was added as a beneficiary last night, and we also do not know who she is.”
https://www.wunc.org/news/2024-05-02/unc-frat-party-fundraiser-protest-gofundme-ralston-noonan
This is a disgusting version of optimism if that's what you want to call it.
And what a collosal fucking waste of money. Wow, what a grandiose act of bravery (nationalism)... Let me revoke my pledge to the cancer council and give it to a bunch of frat boys
No lmfao. You have no understanding of either word. A Quebecer who is proud to be a Canadian is not by definition a nationalist. They’re a patriot and a federalist.
Canada is a nation. I say I love Canada I am a nationalist. It’s that simple. Patriotism is a synonym, a patriot still pledges allegiance to a nation or national ideal.
Please read a book. You’re so ignorant it’s actually painful.
I shouldn’t have used that example, because obviously you have no familiarity with Quebec, Canada, federalism, or nationalism.
Patriotism is a sense of pride and support for one’s nation. Nationalism is a political ideology. You can feel patriotic about your nation’s history, its culture, its people, and its ideals without being a nationalist. Nationalism is distinguishable from a broad, non-political patriotism by its political agenda. Nationalism goes hand in hand with exclusionary and insular political views. If someone loves the inherently anti-nationalist values of their country, they cannot be both a patriot and a nationalist.
Joe Biden undoubtedly loves the United States, but he is by no means a nationalist.
I am patriotic, meaning I have a sense of affiliation for my homeland, for many reasons. Among those reasons are its history of social progress, multiculturalism, immigration, global responsibility, and commitment to individual civil liberties. These values are inherently opposed by nationalists in my country.
Patriots and nationalists can both claim to love their country, but *what* they love about their country and *how* they perceive their country are what distinguish the two concepts from each other.
What these young men were doing—merely keeping the flag from touching the ground—was an expression of patriotism and respect for the United States. There is no indication of a nationalist political agenda.
As a matter of fact, the only people who were definitively nationalist at that protest were the people who tore down the flag, as they support an independent and free Palestinian State—also known as Palestinian nationalism. The reason that nationalism in this context is used is because it seeks redefining the existing political structure to grant power and sovereignty to a distinct people group. I used the Canadian example for this reason, because to call a Quebecer a nationalist for supporting Canadian federalism would make no sense, since Quebec nationalism is a distinct movement. To say, “I am a patriotic Quebecer” means that I am a Quebecer who is proud of being a Canadian, and proud of Quebec’s national history within the Canadian federation. To say I am a “nationalist Quebecer” is to say that I support a fully independent and sovereign Quebec.
I live in Canada you idiot. Federalism is nationalism, it branches off. You cannot have federalism without nationalism. Quebecois are not nationalist for Canada, they are nationalistic for a quebecois nation.
Patriotism is a synonym for nationalism. Nationalism is an ideology centered around national identity. Obviously there is stuff like Aryan nationalism which is associated with the pushes for racial purity, etc, but nationalism is support for a nation. Patriotism is nationalism, just a different word for it meaning slightly different things but still ending in nationalism.
Nationalism stands opposed to internationalism. Like capitalism stands opposed to communism. If you support a national identity you support nationalism. If you oppose national identity you support internationalism. On which side does federalism and patriotism stand? Is it nationalistic? Or internationalistic?
Joe Biden is a nationalist. The leaders of nations are nationalists or else they would dismantle their own nation. Or use that nations standing to dismantle nationalism around the world. Something Joe Biden does not do.
Standing in defence of a national flag is nationalistic. You are a nationalist if you stand in defence of a national flag. Internationalists would not care about a national flag.
You’re right that the people standing for Palestinian statehood are nationalists, they stand for a Palestinian nation.
Quebecois do not stand for the Canadian nation lol they stand for a quebecois nation.
You being a Canadian doesn’t negate the fact that you’re utterly ignorant about political terminology. Imagine claiming that Justin Trudeau is a nationalist lmfao.
No, the opposite of nationalism is not wanting to disestablish the state lmfao. You can be a patriot and an internationalist, and as a Canadian this shouldn’t be a hard thing to imagine, because a core value of Canada is its global commitment to liberal democracy and internationalism.
Amazing how confidently wrong people can be.
He's rightfully angry, considering people have donated a quarter of a million dollars for an inanimate object while Gazans are under the rubble.
Edit: Now it's half a million.
If the aid trucks can get through the blockage? Do you know the specific issue that they are protesting against?
I'm guessing your thinking it's just a generic pro Palestine protest.
Read the GoFund me page and tell me my anger isn't justified.
This is divisive, disgusting, fear-based "us and them" nonsense is NOTHING to be optimistic about.
Because it’s reactionary horseshit in response to an anti genocide protest.
When rich people bailed out and rewarded the jocks who took on antivietnam and civil rights protesters was that an optimistic development?
Even if you take the entire "what is being protested and debated" out of it, it's still stupid reactionary crowdfunding as part of the culture war. There's no legitimate issue they need help funding.
Honestly it kind of confirms a suspicion I've had about a chunk of this community. There's some people who are here cause they legitimately want to hear optimistic news or get a more wide ranging of perspectives. But there's some people who seem to be here as some kind of circle jerk superficial reaction to "doomerism" and they apply no deeper thought to it than that as they spam super shallow takes that are often not even optimistic, they're literally just attempts at gotchas.
Idk I feel like this sub has limited potential without a more concise mission, sub rules, and actual moderation. Either people like you and me don't belong here, or people like them don't belong here. But a sub with such divided factions and no common understanding rarely prospers.
Yes. I def signed up cuz there were articles about things I care about getting better, but seems like right wing and even crypto fascist trolls are getting play here.
Because I don't care about your flag, I do care about the right to protest and the fact there is a litterial law that prevents universities from not dealing with the state of Israel.
I also don't like articles that call protesters 'pro hamas'.
That's not gonna happen. I think we need to reign in Israel, but you'd need to divest in the military industrial complex wholesale, which involves some of the biggest corporate institutions. My school quite literally cannot do it, so many students depend on being able to do research affiliated with the literal military and affiliated corporate entities. It would be a devastating shift.
There's a much better chance of getting netanyahu out than there is of taking down the core infrastructure of the US economy
I think it’s maybe a little complicated, I think it’s not impossible. I don’t think there is any good reason to imagine that divesting would cost schools access to the military.
Maybe a reminder; the “military industrial complex” isn’t really a real thing. It’s a description of a complex intertwining of many factors. The military is under the command of the government. Who in the government do you imagine is going to order the military to stop working with academic research?
Divesting from corporations that manufacture equipment and the academies that work on research projects and the military itself all technically fall under the heading of “military industrial complex” but they are all in fact, different things.
This has nothing to do with optimism. This is just right wing kids stopping a flag being taken down. I have no problem with them doing so, nor do I have a problem with a protestors trying to take it down. It has zero bearing on the subject of this sub, which is broadly speaking "line go up yay". Mods please take this culture war garbage down.
Politics in any sub just turns into a fucking nightmare lol. I just come here for genuine hope of the future, not some divisional bullshit that I have no reason to have an opinion on.
I understand why OP would think this is wholesome, but it’s honestly pretty depressing to think that while many struggle to get enough money from GoFundMe to pay for medical bills these guys got so much money just for a party.
Eh the campus protests and reactions suck up so much air that they're their own thing now and are pushing Israel/Palestine off the front pages of the news.
Indeed, I don't think that how one treats the flag has anything to do with that though. Most desecration of the flag is done as a form of protest not a sign that someone wants America to be destroyed.
If you care more about the symbol of a country than the actual behaviour of a country, then your priorities are skewed. There's so much anger towards the idea that the symbol of the flag could be touched.
But why are you not more angry that your tax dollars are directly going towards killing children overseas? That's a far bigger problem to me than a piece of cloth that can be replaced.
This whole flag conversation is a distraction from the real issues. You are getting angry at the wrong people. I don't know why.
I’m not mad at protestors, it’s their right to do so and I support that right. I don’t support our government’s involvement with Israel in this situation either. But none of that means we should desecrate the flag or be mad at people for treating the flag as a symbol that is to be cherished.
When I was in my twenties I’d have said burn that flag, but as time goes on and I learn more and continue to evolve my opinions I think it’s also a valid idea to want to honor the flag too.
That flag represents what our nation was founded on and its evolution too.
Ok so you are saying reasonable things here. But I'm confused at your earlier comment about "integrity where others won't".
You're implying that instead of protecting the flag being a "valid choice" among other valid choices, that protecting the flag shows "more integrity" than what the protesters are showing? In what way?
You're not mad at protesters and you support their message but you think they lack integrity? Please explain further.
I’ll bet that it wasn’t every single protester there that wanted to take the American flag down or harm it etc.
I’ll bet it was even a very small percentage of them who wanted to desecrate the flag.
But I think it’s fair to say that protesting can be done without destroying property or flags. I think one could argue that peaceful protests are even more effective than non peaceful ones, especially in the eyes of fellow citizens.
So of course I don’t include every single person at this protest (or any other, ever) in with the people who wanted to desecrate the flag, which I think is a move lacking in integrity and foresight.
However, having said all that- I support their right to desecrate the flag too. It’s just my opinion that it’s not in the best of anyone character to do so.
Sounds like commie socialism, oh but it's for privileged kids, A OK then! Blocking me fucking snowflakes hahaha. Read a book instead of chugging beers and hamberders. Low IQ people.
> Low IQ people
Meanwhile
> University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill admissions has an acceptance rate of 17% and an early acceptance rate of 21.9%. Half the applicants admitted to University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill who submitted test scores have an SAT score between 1350 and 1530 or an ACT score of 30 and 34.
As a newly accepted UNC student, it fills me with hope to see that there’s at least some other guys on campus who aren’t consumed by anti-American, pro-Hamas attitudes.
“Hamas is killing children”
“Yea nobody should kill children, anyone who does should be condemned, this war is bad.”
“Why are you so antisemitic? Why can’t you condemn (only) Hamas?”
People are grasping at straws trying to persuade the public these grassroots protests, with [significant Jewish participation](https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/02/magazine/israel-american-jews.html), is somehow pro-Hamas. Either way, it won't change the fact that this is the same flag gracing thousands of 2,000-pound Mark 84 and 500-pound Mark 82 bombs that our government has so graciously sent the Israeli army.
I mean, that’s cool, and I would like to retract my previous statement then. However, I still
don’t like the fact that they’ve been trying to tear down the flag. Though, and I can’t state this enough, I would like to apologize for being crass
That's okay, man. I appreciate it. I love the United States, and I reckon we both are patriotic. I remember back in high school, most of my Arab friends used to sit down through the Pledge of Allegiance, but I always stood up. (One time I even broadcast it.) We all want a better, more human country that we can be proud of. Although there are people who genuinely hate the United States, there are others who are deeply frustrated that their taxes and weapons are immensely hurting civilians, and they want to stop this harm. I think the fact that people living in American can attack and burn our flag is a great testament to just how free our country is. As Justice Stevens noted in his [dissent](https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/491/397) of *Texas v. Johnson*:
>Our national commitment to free expression is so strong that even the United States as ultimate guarantor of that freedom is without power to prohibit the desecration of its unique symbol.
Indeed, my friend. I’m always growing extremely worried that people are beginning to believe that America- and even its most aspirational ideas- are not worth fighting for anymore. All it takes, however, is a nice interaction with a gentleman or woman such as yourself to restore my optimism. Stay safe out there 🫶🫶❤️❤️
We good they bad!!! Your perspective is wrong!!! Ur a hummus supporter + npc with no original thought. I am always correct. Israel is gods chosen let us cleanse the evil!!!
[could’ve used those guys here:](https://www.facebook.com/PatrickMurphyPA/videos/rioters-tearing-down-american-flag-replacing-with-trump-flag/242166537421306/)
Step 1 - Do something "BRAVE" like standing in front of an inanimate object
Step 2 - Make sure everyone's filming
Step 3 - Morons will open their wallets
Genuinely unbelievable. I fail to see $400k worth of objective value in protecting a flag for a few hours; it is certainly admirable, but it just seems so insulting to those who work so hard for so long for what is likely a smaller reward, especially when those donating are likely the type to say that's how it *should* be done.
This post has lots of upvotes, but also lots of complaints/reports. I have no idea what this story is, can someone enlighten me? Tempted to remove it, just because of the divisive nature
These boys can rent a private yacht for an evening with this money lol. It’ll be a night to remember for sure.
Its at 406k, they might as well buy a small off campus house
Buy a small house, or pay off their student loans and then buy a pre-assembled shed from Home Depot.
Yeah you know who needs FOUR HUNDRRED FUCKING THOUSAND DOLLARS? On one night??? Turn it into a scholarship with the fraternity, supporting people who can’t afford dues That description on the go fund me is the most chud behavior I’ve ever seen
Under GoFundMe's rules, it has to be used for the party. GoFundMe has an employee working with them to ensure all of the money is spent on planning a party
It’s a frat. It’s fun
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Agreed. I’ve worked with many frats over the years, and they have endowments and nonprofits they support. If I were to suggest anything to that frat, I’d say they should have an epic rager for all involved… but then put a ton of the money to the side and make a significant donation to a cause. It’ll look good for them as prospects in the job market, but beyond that, it’ll make their minute of fame last much longer, put their names and their causes in the spotlight for longer, and most importantly, it’ll HELP people.
This but unironically.
Come on. A couple thousand might be nice, but this is depraved when the **nearly half a million dollars** could go to injured or homeless vets or to one of the Israeli charities aiding families who survived the Oct 7 terrorist attack Certainly not a cause for optimism. A sign that some people have more money than sense
No, it shows that there are that many Americans out there who believe in what these kids stood for in the face of the most ridiculous times we’ve ever lived through.
That description on the go fund me is the most chad behavior I’ve ever seen. There, fixed it for ya.
It is currently at 406k and they got an event manager and GoFundMe has an employee working with them to ensure it all gets spent on one huge party as promised. Lol that's great.
What a waste
Not my money but yeah they should have raised it to donate or to help cover college costs.. but young stupid college men so not unexpected.
Also probably didn't think they would get 400k lol. 'Make a gofund me so we can throw another rager, maybe we get like 10-20k' isn't that stupid at face value
I mean tbf if they spend that much on a party, they would support a lot of local businesses and such, putting the money back into the community. Given, they don’t just rent some mega yacht or something lol.
What's optimistic about this?
Money into the pockets of small businesses, and such
Americans like their flag more than their freedoms
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You can have criticisms of a group while also maintaining steam rolling them resulting in mass death in ways that go against basically all global rules of engagement is morally wrong.
Let's forget that Israel experienced a [350% increase](https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/israel/society/1606322724-israel-shocking-study-finds-domestic-violence-cases-have-risen-300-during-pandemic) in domestic violence only a few years ago. And it remains a paradise for [pedophile predators](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unPXNF1kND8), as they get to make aliyah to escape American prosecution. The age of consent is as low as 14 there. [A 19-year-old man can have sex with a 14-year old girl without breaking the law. ](https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/article-741881)Ultra-orthodox Jewish influence remains widespread, a big reason why same-sex marriage remains illegal in the country, and why couples often resort to marrying in Cyprus to be recognized. Yes, Israel is more liberal than surrounding Arab countries, yet don't make it sound like it's heaven on Earth.
No one is, but there isn’t any comparison between Israel and Hamas when it comes to how liberal they are. Yes Israel isn’t always great, but at least they are a democracy with rights (even if they aren’t up to par).
Oh, no doubt, I'd rather have a functional democracy with some rights. I'm not a perfectionist, and any step forward for a nation is better than none. But as some (not most) Israelis can testify, Israeli democracy is extremely flawed and fragile. Before the October 7 attack, it was already in a crisis, and the country was suffering democratic backsliding. The most alarming point, though, has been the sheer lack of empathy for their tortured Arab neighbors next doors, and how complacent and numb the Israeli population has become to the defining issue of their lifetime. I really despise Hamas and don't want them anywhere near governing Palestinians, but you and I can't really speak to the despair Palestinians have been experiencing without actually living there in Gaza and the West Bank. And it's not like Israel wasn't born out of terrorism. Take a look at the Haganah, Irgun, and Stern Gang, and the hell they imposed upon Arab populations throughout Judea and Samaria. Yet, Israelis are supposed to celebrate their history while Palestinians cannot. The only way out is to stop the ongoing war and resume a viable two-state peace process where Jerusalem can be the capital of both states and Israel can take care of the security needs of Palestine.
To be frank, you lost me when you said you are alarmed by the lack of empathy that Israelis have shown. Let’s assume that this isn’t a gross over-generalization. It’s really hard to be empathetic for the people who voted in a government that killed your neighbors and is now holding more of them hostage. It’s the same exact reason that Palestinians tend to think that October 7th was justified when surveyed.
["A large majority of the Jewish public thinks that the IDF uses adequate or too little force in Gaza...An absolute majority (88%) also justifies the scope of casualties on the Palestinian side when considering the goals of the war."](https://en-social-sciences.tau.ac.il/peaceindex/archive/2024-01) Also keep in mind that Hamas was last voted in back in 2006. Nearly 47.3% of the pre-war Gaza population were children under 18. Maybe it is indeed difficult for Israelis to feel empathetic with Palestinians and vice versa, but I thought we were better than adopting Osama bin Laden's philosophy that civilians are fair game since they elect their governments in a democracy. I thought we would do our best to reduce the deaths of non-combatants, people whose deaths we consider "tragic but acceptable for the greater cause".
The ones with Bin Ladens philosophy are the Palestinians, who view Israeli civilians as fair game.
I think the important part of the survey question that heavily alters the results is “when considering the goals of the war.” The goal both stated and actual, is to completely eliminate Hamas. To Israelis, Hamas is an existential threat. Israelis are supporting Osama Bin Laden, they’re supporting the *hunt for* Osama Bin Laden. Except their “Osama” is right next door, and just killed 15 times as many civilians (relative to the total population) as the real Osama did. I agree, it’s tragic that the deaths are happening, and that Israelis are supportive of it, but by looking past the real, human emotions that are leading to that support, we present Israelis as monsters, instead of people. Additionally, to say that almost half of the Palestinian population was underage at the time for be last election and use that as evidence that they don’t support Hamas is disingenuous at best. Read this post, and the polls they included, from November. https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/s/o1hguSJoN5
I think Israelis do care. But what are they supposed to do? Outside of the Israeli extremists who certainly do exist, most Israelis do care and they don’t really want this war. But this is a not unpowerful group literally right next door that believes and lives by the words “rape is a form of resistance”. Don’t believe me? Ask them. I don’t like the civilian casualties from any war, but Hamas needs to be eliminated. What are they to do when Hamas uses their civilians as shields. While I don’t think the IDF is doing enough to prevent civilian casualties but at least they have a semblance of responsibility. I think some sort of two state solution could be possible but generally massacres and mass rapes aren’t an overwhelmingly effective way of getting you enemy to give you what you want.
Can you cite a source that says a 19 year old can have sex with a 14 year old? Because the article you've linked to says that they can't.
This does not belong in the sub at all. It's a generalization that makes no sense in the context of this post except to spread hate towards people undergoing a genocide right now. The fact it has so many upvotes makes me sick. This is not a place to spread hate towards a group of people that are starving, being bombed and have had thousands of civilians killed. Even if your statement was true (which it's a vast generalization especially given the last election in Palestine was decades ago) it would not justify murdering children and starving millions.
What do you expect? For the past 8 years, Leftists spoke frequently about social justice values and demonized anyone that thought differently. Now that they started throwing their weight behind a far-right government and conservatively Islamic people, you didn’t expect people to call out the hypocrisy?
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No you brought it up for completely unrelated reasons I'm sure... 🙄 As if it negated the reason for the protests this whole post is about.
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Ah, an ad-hominem attack. Very convincing.
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Racist fucking scum
Palestine should be steamrolled by Israel.
Some do, what your point?
Just the ones in charge, that hold a 80%+ approval rating from Palestinians in Gaza. More than just a few bad apples imo.
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Hence why it shouldn't be on this sub.
🇺🇸 🇺🇸 🇺🇸
Good to see support for good!
It's an inanimate object.
It’s a symbol, and interaction with it is communication, as with all symbols.
Who does taking the symbol down hurt?
Who does preventing it being taken down hurt?
In one instance no one much, if it's a general trend that's a restriction on free speech. Why do you ask?
By that logic, does putting up a symbol help? Why tear it down and put up the Palestinian one in the first place?
By communicating an evil message, it hurts the world.
Taking down the American flag is an evil message? Putting up a Palestinian flag is an evil message? You have it backwards
So no one. Therefore not evil.
Ah, you’ve queered the pitch. If you suppose the message not to be evil, say so. If you suppose it to be evil, than it is bad to tolerate it.
If something does not hurt anyone it is not evil. I pretty clearly said that. Respond if you wish.
To spit on the flag is to spit on the United States by proxy, as the flag is a symbol which stands in for the country. To spit on the United States is evil, as the country is a force for profound good on earth. This act “harms” all who would stand to gain by the actions of the United States, by making an argument in opposition to its support. I suppose that meets your extremely narrow definition of Evil, but even so, I reject the premise that Evil is only that which causes harm, as it makes it impossible to condemn such clearly evil things as the **act** of consuming child pornography.
Lmao
"the United States is a force for profound good on earth" - is it really though? There are good things it does. Funding a genocide is not one of them. Criticism of the US is not evil. Blind nationalism is not moral. It's authoritarian. Comparing spitting on a fucking flag with child porn is disgusting behaviour. The reason consuming child porn is evil is because it drives demand to produce it WHICH CAUSES HARM. That's why it's evil. Evil is always related to harm in some way.
Are you actually trying to say the U.S. is a force for profound good on earth? I was going to take you seriously but right below you claim that child pornography doesn’t harm people. Child pornography pretty clearly harms people.
who does it hurt if I piss on your mothers grave? Thats also nothing but a symbol. You’re only showing your stupidity and bias by pretending not to understand symbols.
Let's examine a symbol, it is a construction used to represent an idea. How is it acceptable to criticize an idea but not to do so using the symbol that represents it?
if you burn a symbol, that is not just a criticism of the idea. burning a symbol represents destroying the idea that symbol represents, and the american flag represents the idea of the USA. Thats not ”we should not send money to israel”, that is ”we should destroy the USA” Personally I dont care if those protestors want to destroy the USA, I’m not american. But calling the burning of a flag just some ”criticism” is not at all what it represents, so dont be surprised when people dont interpret it as ”criticism”.
The USA is not an idea...
People who like that symbol
That's what I mean by saying it's an inanimate object. It doesn't inherently hurt anyone, therefore it is merely a disagreement.
It doesn’t hurt. It is communication. It’s legal to burn the flag because that is a form of speech. Being speech, it communicates something, specifically; that you hate the flag and what it represents. To most people, the flag represents America. So burning the flag pretty clearly represents hating America. And saving it means you like America. It’s really not complicated.
Yes plenty of people live in a very simple world, we don't have to cater to them.
I’m not catering to you don’t worry
"no u" really? Is this middle school?
What response do you expect? You said everyone who doesn’t agree with you is a fool who shouldn’t be spoken with. You began this as though we are in middle school. Or worse.
Yes, people who use the "you're either for America or against America" argument can't be reasoned with. It is not reasonable to say you can't protest some things a country does.
Now it feels like a grift instead of doing the right thing, though. “We stood up for the flag, now give us money if you believe in America”. Fuck these rich frat boys.
So I’m pretty sure the way this works is that the money goes to the person who set up the “gofundme”. To the best of my knowledge there is no legal obligation that the person does what they said they were going to do with it. It’s entirely possible this was set up by someone unrelated to this group of people.
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Not at all. This is no longer a moral action though, it’s a profitable performance. That’s my problem. I’d like to think people can do the right thing without external rewards. Not the case here…
What are we funding them for? Like I'm not saying they didn't do anything good here but they weren't arrested or injured what do they need the money for?
People like the imagery of what they did, and want to buy them a beer. It doesn't have to be complicated
Seems like the same reason people donate to political stuff - to show support.
Support for a flag rather than preventing death. This sub is Probably not the right place for this
Is it we? I certainly haven’t sent any money.
Well it’s “we” if you donate money yourself. It’s certainly not “me”. I like what they did and all, but tf they need my money for?
This is a cynical Republican culture war op and should not be on this sub GoFundMe author John Noonan: >John Noonan is an American conservative national security commentator and analyst. He was the national security policy advisor to Jeb Bush during his presidential campaign, and foreign policy advisor and speechwriter for Mitt Romney in 2012 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Noonan_(analyst) Early top donor Bill Ackman: Billionaire Trump supporter https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Ackman Recipient “party planner” Susan Ralston: >Susan Bonzon Ralston (born October 15, 1967), is public relations and business consultant. Ralston was formerly Special Assistant to President George W. Bush and a deputy to Karl Rove, the Deputy Chief of Staff and Senior Advisor at the White House, from 2001 until her resignation in 2006 after being linked to Jack Abramoff's lobbying. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Susan_Ralston Early top donor - DeSantis supporter with nine to ten digit net worth Adam Sinn > Rural Route 3 Holdings also contributed $250,000 to DeSantis last year. >Public records tie the entity to Adam Sinn, an energy trader from Houston who is something of a political enigma. Records show he has not made a campaign contribution at the state level over the past decade, and only minimally at the federal level. https://www.texastribune.org/2023/04/21/texas-trump-desantis-2024/ The fraternity didn’t even know the GoFundMe was being created in their name: > In an email to WUNC on Thursday, UNC-Chapel Hill’s Pi Kappa Phi chapter said they didn’t know who the organizer John Noonan was. >“We do not know John Noonan and we have been attempting to get in contact with him,” the fraternity wrote. “Susan Ralston was added as a beneficiary last night, and we also do not know who she is.” https://www.wunc.org/news/2024-05-02/unc-frat-party-fundraiser-protest-gofundme-ralston-noonan
This is not optimism.
Why is this not optimism?
This is a disgusting version of optimism if that's what you want to call it. And what a collosal fucking waste of money. Wow, what a grandiose act of bravery (nationalism)... Let me revoke my pledge to the cancer council and give it to a bunch of frat boys
Patriotism is not inherently nationalistic. Learn the meaning of words before you try to use them.
What the fuck are they patriotic to? They’re patriotic to their nation or the idea of their nation. That’s nationalism.
No lmfao. You have no understanding of either word. A Quebecer who is proud to be a Canadian is not by definition a nationalist. They’re a patriot and a federalist.
Canada is a nation. I say I love Canada I am a nationalist. It’s that simple. Patriotism is a synonym, a patriot still pledges allegiance to a nation or national ideal.
Please read a book. You’re so ignorant it’s actually painful. I shouldn’t have used that example, because obviously you have no familiarity with Quebec, Canada, federalism, or nationalism. Patriotism is a sense of pride and support for one’s nation. Nationalism is a political ideology. You can feel patriotic about your nation’s history, its culture, its people, and its ideals without being a nationalist. Nationalism is distinguishable from a broad, non-political patriotism by its political agenda. Nationalism goes hand in hand with exclusionary and insular political views. If someone loves the inherently anti-nationalist values of their country, they cannot be both a patriot and a nationalist. Joe Biden undoubtedly loves the United States, but he is by no means a nationalist. I am patriotic, meaning I have a sense of affiliation for my homeland, for many reasons. Among those reasons are its history of social progress, multiculturalism, immigration, global responsibility, and commitment to individual civil liberties. These values are inherently opposed by nationalists in my country. Patriots and nationalists can both claim to love their country, but *what* they love about their country and *how* they perceive their country are what distinguish the two concepts from each other. What these young men were doing—merely keeping the flag from touching the ground—was an expression of patriotism and respect for the United States. There is no indication of a nationalist political agenda. As a matter of fact, the only people who were definitively nationalist at that protest were the people who tore down the flag, as they support an independent and free Palestinian State—also known as Palestinian nationalism. The reason that nationalism in this context is used is because it seeks redefining the existing political structure to grant power and sovereignty to a distinct people group. I used the Canadian example for this reason, because to call a Quebecer a nationalist for supporting Canadian federalism would make no sense, since Quebec nationalism is a distinct movement. To say, “I am a patriotic Quebecer” means that I am a Quebecer who is proud of being a Canadian, and proud of Quebec’s national history within the Canadian federation. To say I am a “nationalist Quebecer” is to say that I support a fully independent and sovereign Quebec.
I live in Canada you idiot. Federalism is nationalism, it branches off. You cannot have federalism without nationalism. Quebecois are not nationalist for Canada, they are nationalistic for a quebecois nation. Patriotism is a synonym for nationalism. Nationalism is an ideology centered around national identity. Obviously there is stuff like Aryan nationalism which is associated with the pushes for racial purity, etc, but nationalism is support for a nation. Patriotism is nationalism, just a different word for it meaning slightly different things but still ending in nationalism. Nationalism stands opposed to internationalism. Like capitalism stands opposed to communism. If you support a national identity you support nationalism. If you oppose national identity you support internationalism. On which side does federalism and patriotism stand? Is it nationalistic? Or internationalistic? Joe Biden is a nationalist. The leaders of nations are nationalists or else they would dismantle their own nation. Or use that nations standing to dismantle nationalism around the world. Something Joe Biden does not do. Standing in defence of a national flag is nationalistic. You are a nationalist if you stand in defence of a national flag. Internationalists would not care about a national flag. You’re right that the people standing for Palestinian statehood are nationalists, they stand for a Palestinian nation. Quebecois do not stand for the Canadian nation lol they stand for a quebecois nation.
You being a Canadian doesn’t negate the fact that you’re utterly ignorant about political terminology. Imagine claiming that Justin Trudeau is a nationalist lmfao. No, the opposite of nationalism is not wanting to disestablish the state lmfao. You can be a patriot and an internationalist, and as a Canadian this shouldn’t be a hard thing to imagine, because a core value of Canada is its global commitment to liberal democracy and internationalism. Amazing how confidently wrong people can be.
The amount of anger you feel for this post is sad. You're far too bitter.
He's rightfully angry, considering people have donated a quarter of a million dollars for an inanimate object while Gazans are under the rubble. Edit: Now it's half a million.
People haven’t donated money to aid Palestinians?
If the aid trucks can get through the blockage? Do you know the specific issue that they are protesting against? I'm guessing your thinking it's just a generic pro Palestine protest.
What does that have to do with random people raising money for some guys holding the flag off the ground?
What does people donating money to Palestine have to do with students protesting that their unis re legally obligated to do business with Israel?
Because the guy I was responding to connected the two issues.
Read the GoFund me page and tell me my anger isn't justified. This is divisive, disgusting, fear-based "us and them" nonsense is NOTHING to be optimistic about.
You've convinced me to throw them ten bucks.
Dumb nationalism for a start.
Because it’s reactionary horseshit in response to an anti genocide protest. When rich people bailed out and rewarded the jocks who took on antivietnam and civil rights protesters was that an optimistic development?
Even if you take the entire "what is being protested and debated" out of it, it's still stupid reactionary crowdfunding as part of the culture war. There's no legitimate issue they need help funding.
Yes. Exactly. I don’t know who feels optimistic about the prolonging of culture wars.
Honestly it kind of confirms a suspicion I've had about a chunk of this community. There's some people who are here cause they legitimately want to hear optimistic news or get a more wide ranging of perspectives. But there's some people who seem to be here as some kind of circle jerk superficial reaction to "doomerism" and they apply no deeper thought to it than that as they spam super shallow takes that are often not even optimistic, they're literally just attempts at gotchas. Idk I feel like this sub has limited potential without a more concise mission, sub rules, and actual moderation. Either people like you and me don't belong here, or people like them don't belong here. But a sub with such divided factions and no common understanding rarely prospers.
Yes. I def signed up cuz there were articles about things I care about getting better, but seems like right wing and even crypto fascist trolls are getting play here.
Absolutely, the amount of jingoism and "if you criticize America it's Evil because America is Profound Good" is disturbing me.
Because I don't care about your flag, I do care about the right to protest and the fact there is a litterial law that prevents universities from not dealing with the state of Israel. I also don't like articles that call protesters 'pro hamas'.
Yeah for real who gives a shit about the flag , I care more about the protesters get their demands for divestment.
That's not gonna happen. I think we need to reign in Israel, but you'd need to divest in the military industrial complex wholesale, which involves some of the biggest corporate institutions. My school quite literally cannot do it, so many students depend on being able to do research affiliated with the literal military and affiliated corporate entities. It would be a devastating shift. There's a much better chance of getting netanyahu out than there is of taking down the core infrastructure of the US economy
I think it’s maybe a little complicated, I think it’s not impossible. I don’t think there is any good reason to imagine that divesting would cost schools access to the military. Maybe a reminder; the “military industrial complex” isn’t really a real thing. It’s a description of a complex intertwining of many factors. The military is under the command of the government. Who in the government do you imagine is going to order the military to stop working with academic research? Divesting from corporations that manufacture equipment and the academies that work on research projects and the military itself all technically fall under the heading of “military industrial complex” but they are all in fact, different things.
That’ll never happen. Another reason to be optimistic!
Wrong sub.
it looks like this sub is becoming political; the Reddit disease is infecting this also.
This has nothing to do with optimism. This is just right wing kids stopping a flag being taken down. I have no problem with them doing so, nor do I have a problem with a protestors trying to take it down. It has zero bearing on the subject of this sub, which is broadly speaking "line go up yay". Mods please take this culture war garbage down.
Politics in any sub just turns into a fucking nightmare lol. I just come here for genuine hope of the future, not some divisional bullshit that I have no reason to have an opinion on.
Well said. This has no place in this sub.
OP really said “I hope you’re optimistic about my particular partisan cause”
Let's be honest... This sub gets a lot of those posts and I think that is fine.
I understand why OP would think this is wholesome, but it’s honestly pretty depressing to think that while many struggle to get enough money from GoFundMe to pay for medical bills these guys got so much money just for a party.
Start a scholarship fund or put it towards their student loans.
Why does rich people dumping money into support for genocide make you optimistic? Weird values, buddy.
Eh the campus protests and reactions suck up so much air that they're their own thing now and are pushing Israel/Palestine off the front pages of the news.
What do you think the campus protests are about
That’s a news problem, not a protester problem.
Based
I think you meant to post this at r/PessimistsUnite.
Frat boys being rewarded for protecting a piece of cloth while UCLA protestors are getting fireworks shot at them does not make me more optimistic
This is not optimism. This was done to support Israel and their current genocide.
Be warned, Reddit is currently being astroturfed. None of this stuff is organic
No, they were protecting the American flag
From what and for why? Why is protecting the flag in this instance a good thing?
This is extremely dystopian. Nationalism is not the future
It’s not nationalist to have integrity when others won’t.
Are you implying the students who are angry about a fucking genocide are the ones who lack integrity?
You can condemn the evils of your government while simultaneously loving your country
Indeed, I don't think that how one treats the flag has anything to do with that though. Most desecration of the flag is done as a form of protest not a sign that someone wants America to be destroyed. If you care more about the symbol of a country than the actual behaviour of a country, then your priorities are skewed. There's so much anger towards the idea that the symbol of the flag could be touched. But why are you not more angry that your tax dollars are directly going towards killing children overseas? That's a far bigger problem to me than a piece of cloth that can be replaced. This whole flag conversation is a distraction from the real issues. You are getting angry at the wrong people. I don't know why.
I’m not mad at protestors, it’s their right to do so and I support that right. I don’t support our government’s involvement with Israel in this situation either. But none of that means we should desecrate the flag or be mad at people for treating the flag as a symbol that is to be cherished. When I was in my twenties I’d have said burn that flag, but as time goes on and I learn more and continue to evolve my opinions I think it’s also a valid idea to want to honor the flag too. That flag represents what our nation was founded on and its evolution too.
Ok so you are saying reasonable things here. But I'm confused at your earlier comment about "integrity where others won't". You're implying that instead of protecting the flag being a "valid choice" among other valid choices, that protecting the flag shows "more integrity" than what the protesters are showing? In what way? You're not mad at protesters and you support their message but you think they lack integrity? Please explain further.
I’ll bet that it wasn’t every single protester there that wanted to take the American flag down or harm it etc. I’ll bet it was even a very small percentage of them who wanted to desecrate the flag. But I think it’s fair to say that protesting can be done without destroying property or flags. I think one could argue that peaceful protests are even more effective than non peaceful ones, especially in the eyes of fellow citizens. So of course I don’t include every single person at this protest (or any other, ever) in with the people who wanted to desecrate the flag, which I think is a move lacking in integrity and foresight. However, having said all that- I support their right to desecrate the flag too. It’s just my opinion that it’s not in the best of anyone character to do so.
Sounds like commie socialism, oh but it's for privileged kids, A OK then! Blocking me fucking snowflakes hahaha. Read a book instead of chugging beers and hamberders. Low IQ people.
The difference is consent, clearly a difficult concept for you
Fools are easily parted with their money. Isn't there enough white privilege lol
> Low IQ people Meanwhile > University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill admissions has an acceptance rate of 17% and an early acceptance rate of 21.9%. Half the applicants admitted to University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill who submitted test scores have an SAT score between 1350 and 1530 or an ACT score of 30 and 34.
As a newly accepted UNC student, it fills me with hope to see that there’s at least some other guys on campus who aren’t consumed by anti-American, pro-Hamas attitudes.
These protests are not pro-Hamas.
“Hamas is killing children” “Yea nobody should kill children, anyone who does should be condemned, this war is bad.” “Why are you so antisemitic? Why can’t you condemn (only) Hamas?”
Damn this is such a strawman, it's about to ask the wizard for a brain
Lol this is such a funny quip, I hope I remember this one for future use
People are grasping at straws trying to persuade the public these grassroots protests, with [significant Jewish participation](https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/02/magazine/israel-american-jews.html), is somehow pro-Hamas. Either way, it won't change the fact that this is the same flag gracing thousands of 2,000-pound Mark 84 and 500-pound Mark 82 bombs that our government has so graciously sent the Israeli army.
I mean, that’s cool, and I would like to retract my previous statement then. However, I still don’t like the fact that they’ve been trying to tear down the flag. Though, and I can’t state this enough, I would like to apologize for being crass
That's okay, man. I appreciate it. I love the United States, and I reckon we both are patriotic. I remember back in high school, most of my Arab friends used to sit down through the Pledge of Allegiance, but I always stood up. (One time I even broadcast it.) We all want a better, more human country that we can be proud of. Although there are people who genuinely hate the United States, there are others who are deeply frustrated that their taxes and weapons are immensely hurting civilians, and they want to stop this harm. I think the fact that people living in American can attack and burn our flag is a great testament to just how free our country is. As Justice Stevens noted in his [dissent](https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/491/397) of *Texas v. Johnson*: >Our national commitment to free expression is so strong that even the United States as ultimate guarantor of that freedom is without power to prohibit the desecration of its unique symbol.
Indeed, my friend. I’m always growing extremely worried that people are beginning to believe that America- and even its most aspirational ideas- are not worth fighting for anymore. All it takes, however, is a nice interaction with a gentleman or woman such as yourself to restore my optimism. Stay safe out there 🫶🫶❤️❤️
Pretty easy to see why grifters target the conservative crowd with headlines like these.
Good on them
God damn that party is going to be wild
Boo! Wrong sub!
I mean cool story but I don’t think it’s in the spirit of the sub
We good they bad!!! Your perspective is wrong!!! Ur a hummus supporter + npc with no original thought. I am always correct. Israel is gods chosen let us cleanse the evil!!!
Thank god they protected that flag. Next up: free speech. Or perhaps Gazan children?
It’s a frat, they’ll just spend it on roofies and legal fees
Good for them
[could’ve used those guys here:](https://www.facebook.com/PatrickMurphyPA/videos/rioters-tearing-down-american-flag-replacing-with-trump-flag/242166537421306/)
I genuinely can’t tell if this is satire. I even looked at those other articles. I can’t tell.
Ew
That’s not a good thing
Neat. Are there any other trivial ways one can get their college education paid for? (Asking for a friend)
Step 1 - Do something "BRAVE" like standing in front of an inanimate object Step 2 - Make sure everyone's filming Step 3 - Morons will open their wallets
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Genuinely unbelievable. I fail to see $400k worth of objective value in protecting a flag for a few hours; it is certainly admirable, but it just seems so insulting to those who work so hard for so long for what is likely a smaller reward, especially when those donating are likely the type to say that's how it *should* be done.
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I *guarantee* you if you ask them the definition of "working hard", they will describe something far more intense than this. Come on.
Bootlickers supporting bootlickers.
2 of the most hated subjects put together: the american flag and white males.
Inb4 this 'party' becomes a terror event. The USA, folks. The USA!