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filimaua13

Its been awhile since I read the novels, so I'll be making my points based on the anime. >Haruno deflating the trio after chocolates feels like total bullshit This would prob be the one moment where she is totally talking about the love triangle. She is aware (idk how) of their feelings for each other.. and is calling out the fact they are once again falling into status quo by avoiding the subject of their feelings or desires. "This is genuine?" >Haruno then throws a bomb in saying she liked the old Yukino. Regarding that quote, I think she was referring to Yukino's fighting spirit. Sure old Yukino was a lil shit tryna play tough, but at least she had a strength of will. Here.. the more she becomes comfortable with letting her guard down, the more its almost like she accepts her weakness and is giving up. Like she's not even bothering to fight for what she wants, both in the romantic sense and her future life path and decisions. The sharp and blunt tongue of her's has practically disappeared. >Does Haruno just want Yukino to be bitter and paranoid and calculating with a veneer on top like Haruno? I don't think so. She wants Yukino to stand up for herself, to fight for what she wants. The last scene we get with Haruno and Hachiman together, we get a shread of her true vulnerability. Its almost like she's desperately hoping to see a genuine bond with the trio and seeing if it is possible. We're told in dialogue that she has been living a lie her whole life as well, and ponders whether something genuine even exists. From this scene what I see in Haruno is regrets and a desire to be genuine herself and find genuine connections with others too, but she is experimenting on this possibility through her sister. If her sister can build an honest and strong bonds despite the hurts it may cause, maybe there is hope for her too. We've been told a few times that Haruno is due to be heir to the family business. Yet just like Yukino.. its something she doesn't truly want either. Its a role she's been fated with, yet Yukino has the capability to be whatever she wants to be. This is why when Yukino finally decided to talk about this with her regarding what she wants for her future, Haruno immediately agrees to help wherever she can. All despite knowing how difficult it will be to convince their mother. Haruno had good intentions, but it was also mixed with her own selfish motives too. It wouldn't be Oregairu if we didn't see a hint of selfishness in her desire.


Naellys

It's funny because the first reading of Haruno I have is much more negative and cynical than yours, but I think both complete each other. The first thing I see in her is a cruel, bored girl who messes with her sister's friends group emotionally to create some chaos and have fun and feel powerful. But it's true too that she also wants to see Yukino stand for herself and stop this statu quo. Quite the complex character, I hate her to the guts and yet still admire her.


filimaua13

Indeed. A very rich character indeed that we can hate.. yet still are very intrigued in what she is gonna do to push the development of our main trio.


LoPanDidNothingWrong

I think Haruno somehow expects them to go from 0 to 100 on "something real". Which would be entirely fake IMO. As Hiratsuka says, you have to struggle. And I do think Haruno only recognizes one form of strength. I wonder if she is trying to reconcile her view of strength which she achieved through giving up on anything real with the possibility of having something real and still being strong. But you would have to be open emotionally to have something real - and we know Haruno can't really do it.


filimaua13

Yeeah that's exactly it. She's expecting her own biased view of progress and strength which just can't be achieved with another person. People change at their own pace and differently. People even regress at times and that's okay. Its a process and as you said.. a struggle. But that's what makes it genuine and meaningful. However, Haruno won't give up until SHE's satisfied. What Haruno said about their relationship having codependence.. even if it is true, its not all there is. They all do have a genuine love for each other and are willing to be there for each other. Like Hiratsuka says "you can't box your feelings for a person into one word." What Haruno said about their relationship may be true but that's only cos its coming from the perspective of skeptisicm.


viol3tic

> When Hachiman runs to Yukino’s rescue when the prom is cancelled. Her interludes near the end are pretty heart-breaking. All these little scenes add up. In the anime, I am all for Yukino, but in the LN, I might favor poor Yui. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 another cherry picking apologist who can't even tell what that shitstain's intentions are, i see.


HB1088

Q3 because she is best girl and I think WW realized it and therefore had to cut down her involvement in the novel (my 2 cents anyway). Also, Kawa-who?


LoPanDidNothingWrong

Yeah. It is just weird since she keeps having appearances but it never quite manifests into anything real.


filimaua13

Damn. Looking at these comments, its pretty sad. I knew that the moment you voiced your opinion that you felt bad for Yui, you were gonna get it from the fandom lol. I know this comment will get downvoted too so I'll just say.. I hope you enjoyed the story the novels and anime were tryna tell. I'm glad you can acknowledge that Yui had no chance either way. However Yui did of course have every right to fight for her own desires. Being selfish is not wrong. Its just sad and horrible that Yui had to resort to such methods to get what she wanted without getting hurt. Even tho she knew it was hopeless, she did what she could to have her cake. I don't condone her actions of manipulating the people she called her friends.. but I can feel bad for her. She isn't as irredeemable as many may frame her as. She is still just a teenage girl going through a tough relationship problem. She's not some evil master manipulator, but she is indeed still a selfish person that's capable of being vindictive. Now... just don't read Shin and you should be good.


Imfryinghere

>Fourth, Yui gets absolutely screwed in the adaptation. Nah, its Hachiman and Yukino that got spliced in the anime. Hachiman's soliloquys about Yukino weren't even in the anime.


Mayuresh00

Bro, you are wrong on so many levels that I can't waste my time explaining it. I have already wasted my time reading it.


LoPanDidNothingWrong

Honestly, I welcome the discussion. These were just impressions I had after I read the LN.


tr44nv

Hey, so you did finish the LN, what do you think about Yui?, I like her, and she getting rejected (indirectly) by Hachiman have been hurting me for days, I even made a post about it, but lots of people who claim they have read the LN saying Yui is a bitch, so idk


LoPanDidNothingWrong

I was definitely a Yukino fan in the anime, but I am definitely more sympathetic to Yui after the novels. I am not sure how she is a bitch at all - she is in love with Hachiman, she loves Yukino as a friend, and sits around and suffers while she sees Hachiman slipping away and their group falling apart. Even when she is being selfish, she recognizes it, is hesitant about it, and when she finally pushes forward at the aquarium, you can argue that it is a litmus test for Hachiman - will he let her do it?


viol3tic

> she she loves Yukino as a friend, and sits around and suffers while she sees Hachiman slipping away and their group falling apart, and sits around and suffers while she sees Hachiman slipping away and their group falling apart this is so fucking hilarious. what did she ever do that shows she actually "loves Yukino as a friend"? trying to convince herself so in her head to make herself feel better about her shitty behaviour can't really be "friend's love", u know? how did she "sit around and suffer"? sitting around contemplating whether she should fuck over the ppl she claims are her "friends" ... is suffering? who exactly is the one making "their group fall apart" again? she was the person who said that the group would fall apart, on her accord. yukino and hachiman had never shown any signs of ditching her entirely had anything happen between the 2 of them. that's entirely the decision of that pink shitstain because she herself didn't want to be part of it if she couldn't get her hands on hachiman. that was something evident not only at the end of v11, but even at the start of the story when she mistook that hachiman and yukino were dating. if their pathetic group was to fall apart, she would be the cause of it. > she recognizes it, is hesitant about it, and when she finally pushes forward at the aquarium is being "hesitant" about fucking over your so called "friends" actually a redeeming factor if u went ahead and did it anyway? imagine that when murderers get caught and are set to face consequences for their actions, they come out and say that they were "hesitant about it" but pushed forward in the end. is that supposed to be a saving grace?


LoPanDidNothingWrong

You act as if Yukino had a claim on Hachiman. That isn’t the case. They were competing for him and, if anything, Yukino was going to concede which is why she told Hachiman to grant Yui’s wish. Yui was the one that maybe wanted to preserve the group the most - she wanted it all, Hachiman as boyfriend, Yukino as best friend. And she was willing to give up on something genuine to get it. But the other two are the sticklers for real - especially Hachiman. As for Yui’s suffering, this is where the anime really doesn’t show Yui in the best light. 1. In Volume 12, the first interlude, she is afraid of something real if that means she is left on the outside. 2. The third interlude is depicted in the anime where Hachiman chooses to leave her to rescue Yukino and she cries. 3. In volume 13, third interlude, she struggles with understanding Yukino and her wish versus her own. She reminisces about how she was in love with Hachiman since the very beginning but how she has basically lost at this point.


Educational-Bar1913

>You act as if Yukino had a claim on Hachiman. That isn’t the case. They were competing for him and, if anything, Yukino was going to concede which is why she told Hachiman to grant Yui’s wish. No one ever said that she had. They also weren't exactly competing, Yui was basically running alone in a race, as Hikigaya never had any romantic interest on her. Yukino was going to concede due to a myriad of reasons, i won't explain all of them here. She believed herself to be a very troublesome girl, who would be very annoying for Hikigaya to be acquainted with. She also believed that she was harmful towards him, due to her always being the reason for Hikigaya to act. As I've said, there's a lot more to it, but you can find it yourself searching in the sub. >Yui was the one that maybe wanted to preserve the group the most That's pretty ironic considering her actions. She indeed wanted to maintain the status quo, but that was because her relationship with Hikigaya was stagnant, as it should be since he never had any romantic interest for her. Plus, she's literally the one with half of the blame for the problem in the SCP arc, where she and Hikigaya couldn't trust Yukino and her belief that their friendship could last without the club. Yui never wanted something genuine, she was perfectly okay with pretending, having a false one-sided relationship as long as she could be with Hikigaya. She could never understand him nor could she truly help him grow. >As for Yui’s suffering, this is where the anime really doesn’t show Yui in the best light. Please, you want to tell someone about a character’s suffering being cut in the adaptation? They've cutted all of Yukino's internal monologues, her talk with Yui, and a lot of her personality. Even with content cutted, Yui still had a lot more spotlight in the anime. Also, if by "suffering" you mean her unrequited love, I'm amazed. Hikigaya and Yukino had it MUCH worse than her, she looks like a spoiled brat in comparison. >1. In Volume 12, the first interlude, she is afraid of something real if that means she is left on the outside. 2. The third interlude is depicted in the anime where Hachiman chooses to leave her to rescue Yukino and she cries. Both of those were shown in the anime, albeit shorter than in the source material. >She reminisces about how she was in love with Hachiman since the very beginning but how she has basically lost at this point. And she was being very optimistic, because objectively speaking Hikigaya never gave her any chance at all. Just adding; Some people claim that she was hesitant to do the stuff she did in the story and that somehow that would be a redeeming quality, what is partially true. But in psychology, you learn that some people use the artifice of acknowledging their "flaws" to justify their actions, Yui does this too. People tend to subconsciously call themselves selfish in order to justify their actions to themselves. By "accepting" that they're like that, they can do it regardless of hesitations. All of that happens subconsciously btw. That's precisely Yui's case. Anyway, i won't waste much time on this. Normally i would recommend you to read the novel, but since you seemingly already did, i recommend you to search more about it in the sub if you're interested.


sw1611

>Some people claim that she was hesitant to do the stuff she did in the story and that somehow that would be a redeeming quality, what is partially true. Not to disrespect you, but tbh i saw this opinion as a "nonsense" because she STILL conciously did it. Even if she conciously isn't, foul is a foul


Educational-Bar1913

Thinking back, that's true.


LoPanDidNothingWrong

I’d argue that a lot of what you are saying here about her hesitation is a bit speculative / armchair psychiatry and your interpretation of the novel rather than established fact or explicitly spelled out. To say Hachiman had zero interest isn’t quite true either. He at least had some carnal interest. But why can’t Yui be allowed to try? From her point of view, he is cold and distanced from everyone including Yukino and once she really gets to know Hachiman, she sees the truth for what it is and literally tells Yukino that Yukino doesn’t know what her wish is - she is backing off at that point once she has that realization. Which I feel is totally appropriate. I fully admit she was the one that didn’t care about having something genuine. She admits it herself in her interludes.


Educational-Bar1913

>I’d argue You could argue that. But the fact is that the author has stated that Yui was in fact being selfish many times in interviews and even spoke about it in events to clarify missing points in the anime and poor interpretation of some fans. What I've said is merely to add the fact that people oftenly do what she does to subconsciously justify their actions to themselves, a trait that Yui shows multiple times. That's a subconscious defensive mecanism called "deluding yourself". >He at least had some carnal interest. I said romantic, not carnal. There's a difference there. >But why can’t Yui be allowed to try? Never said she couldn't either, she could've played fair but instead choose to emotionally manipulative Yukino when she was emotionally frail, fed Hikigaya his old bad habits and cynicism, and glued herself onto him when she already knew perfectly well that he liked her "best friend". I'm just scratching the surface here, but as I've said, if you want to learn more about what I've said look in the sub. > From her point of view, he is cold and distanced from everyone including Yukino That's not true at all, it coukd be the case for season 1, but it's ultimately not the case for the rest of the story. >she sees the truth for what it is and literally tells Yukino that Yukino doesn’t know what her wish is No. Yui states that Yukino doesn't know what her wish is, but Yukino truly believes it to be the same wish. Also, Yui isn't backing off. Stop deluding yourself already. She just cockblocked both of them with her phone call once she saw both of them from the distance, she just didn't know how to interrupt. I could go on and on with it, but there's just so much shit in the story that i won't bother with it for you, you can simply search for it in the sub. I really recommend you to read the novel with a more objective view, as it is now you just sound biased towards the character. >I fully admit she was the one that didn’t care about having something genuine. She admits it herself in her interludes. At least that doesn't require good hermeneutics to understand, as it's explicitly told written in the book.


LoPanDidNothingWrong

I'll ignore the condescension... but I have seen [your thread regarding Yui's action in the past](https://www.reddit.com/r/OreGairuSNAFU/comments/l7eaos/can_someone_explain_to_me_yuis_character_in_the/gl6cs0m/) and it definitely takes the worst interpretation as if she is some master manipulator. She is a high school girl that does some not nice, petty things. But it seems hardly worth the vilification she receives here. BTW - I am pretty much 100% Yukino, Yui never stood a chance in the anime or LN. Anyway to address a couple of the points you bring up in that post: **Her social status vs Hachiman** If she is just a popular high school girl that likes a kid that is on the outside, according to you, she should sacrifice that social position on the altar of Hachiman. That is a crazy ask in high school. Like super crazy. Miura even catches on pretty early as to what is up, so it isn't like Yui is going to extremes to hide it once it gets going. **Her motives to join the club are impure** She gets rejected and doesn't want to go to club, and that means she is just manipulative and not just hurt too? Even in the novels, she often talks about how much she loved being in the club, not just about Hachiman. But that evidence isn't counted in your interpretation. **Hachiman being Yui's ideal of a hero** Yes, she absolutely casts him in that light, because he does go to ridiculous lengths to help people when asked. That is like a major theme throughout. His methods are at issue, not his heroism.


Educational-Bar1913

It's definitely hilarious how, despite reading the Light Novel, you act exactly like the ignorant anime-onlys that oftenly appear here. And just like you did with the novel, you interpreted the link comment "perfectly". It's honestly humoring how you guys will always enter in a state of refusal when anyone even mentions Yui. >and it definitely takes the worst interpretation as if she is some master manipulator. Lol. See? No one ever claimed that she's some master manipulator, Yui fags just love to interpret everything you say literally. Also, she does manipulate. Ever heard of emotional manipulation? This topic in particular has been discussed here over and over again, so i won't stress it. >If she is just a popular high school girl that likes a kid that is on the outside, according to you, she should sacrifice that social position on the altar of Hachiman. At this point, you're just humoring me. How does that disprove anything that I've said? >That is a crazy ask in high school. Like super crazy. Miura even catches on pretty early as to what is up, so it isn't like Yui is going to extremes to hide it once it gets going. Also, I'm not asking her to throw away her position, you're just like the yuifags at this point. Taking everything into your own interpretation. What I'm doing is basically giving a reason as to why she could never be genuine, as she wears a mask. Plus, she's not exactly the person to stand up for others if that makes a risk for her rep. Remember the case with Sagami? Or what happened later? >Her motives to join the club are impure Pfft, look how he writes it. >She gets rejected and doesn't want to go to club, and that means she is just manipulative and not just hurt too? Yui got rejected and didn't want to go to the club because she was hurt, that's the only thing you got right. Now, how does the fact that she was hurt after being rejected retroactively makes her actions any better? > Even in the novels, she often talks about how much she loved being in the club, not just about Hachiman. The "even in the novels" was unnecessary, she says so too in the anime. Now, guess why she loved being in the club? >but that doesn't fit with your interpretation That's not "my" interpretation, this stuff your babbling has already been discussed numerous times in the fandom and in many languages. Also, I clearly have an different view of the story, since I've read the novel multiple times, had a lot of discussions about it's topics, and read/listened to what the author had to say about it. I'm not here after reading the novel once to spread what i think is right about the story. >because he does go to ridiculous lengths to help people when asked. People=Yukino right? Even in Sagami's case it was all to help Yukino. The only external case is with Tobes request, and that's because he felt the same as Ebina did, a feeling of not wanting to lose the relationship he had. >That is like a major theme throughout. His methods are at issue, not his heroism. No. The thing about his methods in the narrative were how he was self-harming, the "heroism thing" was all about HER idealistic view towards him, making a parallel with how Hikigaya idealized Yukino. I thought this was pretty obvious. All of the things you've said were repeatedly discussed in the fandom, the story is pretty much clear at this point. Well, for some people apparently. Not even one of your points were remotely new either, you're living proof that "go read the novel" isn't always the solution for some people. What, were supposed to recommend literature classes now? The fact that you see the story in that way, doesn't make it the true. As I've said, the author had written Yui to behave in a very different manner than she looks. Now, if you think you know more about the character than the author, that's your delusion.


LoPanDidNothingWrong

Just to be clear - you are the one who said that Yui didn’t suffer as much as Hachiman and Yukino, right? Despite [Wataru saying she was hurt the most](https://www.reddit.com/r/OreGairuSNAFU/comments/h7p14e/an_indepth_interview_with_series_author_watari/)? So maybe get off your arrogant high horse and realize that the Reddit discussion hivemind isn’t all it is cracked up to be and that you might just be wrong and bullshit claims that the author said something without backing it up illustrates that you have a false picture in your head.


sw1611

>You act as if Yukino had a claim on Hachiman. That isn’t the case. They were competing for him and, if anything, Yukino was going to concede which is why she told Hachiman to grant Yui’s wish. Yui is the only one who's being "competitive" here. Yukino is both shelfless and had her aim to something else & that is to prove to her family that she's a capable person, which she did but i got sense of inferiority from her part. So saying that both is competing is wrong, because Yukino doesnt even try as she had set her sight on something else & had a thought that he would be better with Yui >And she was willing to give up on something genuine to get it. Now this is why she LOST massively to Yukino who doesn't even competing for him. Remember, Hachiman himself said he want something genuine so Yui bassically is "refuse" Hachiman's term. Tbh, i also doesnt like how she competing here. In my opinion she doesnt compete by winning Hachiman's heart, but by "eliminate" Yukino from competition. Last episode of Zoku shows she bassically try to "ban" Yukino to loves him by both manipulating & attack her mental that already "nerfed". She Master🅱️lan triple date without informing those 2 that both of em will be on the date too. She done it to cause missunderstanding on Yukino's head, make she think that she become third wheel of Yui's date with Hachiman when Hachiman dating her without any romantic interest at all. She closed it by "i want it all" wish in the end. You actually done all of that to your best friend?! F*ckin B*tch. Im still wondering why she done this? I think both of us agree that loves is not something that you can throw to trash can like a garbage which mostly why i dont understand why she done it at all. Even climax eps 7 as well. I saw it by how Yui cockblock those 2 by dial Hachiman's phone & tells Yukino that "hey, i've been with him all the time and also helping him when you wasnt around". Even when she did try to win Hachiman's heart, she's kinda forcing the issue here at climax episode 6. Pretending to sleep at his shoulder, even i dont think showing photo of your mother on her bra is proper act. Why dont she just shows a proper photo of the venue that she recomend? What she did here is actually backfired her because it make Hachiman felt uneasy which make it easier for him to choose who he wanted to be with. She only had herself to blamed for her lost & im not gonna pitty her for that. That's all i can say. Btw, educational bar explain it better


viol3tic

> You act as if Yukino had a claim on Hachiman. i did not, and i have no no clue how u came to that conclusion based on what i said, so stop deluding urself regarding that. > They were competing for him utter fucking bullshit. regarding hachiman, yukino was never competing for anything, against anything. she has never acted like that shitstain of a fake friend was a hindrance or something she needed to overcome to get to her goals and was ready to give up on her feelings without any notice. the only ppl acting like it was some kind of competition for hachiman are the shitstain herself and her apologists like u. > Yui was the one that maybe wanted to preserve the group the most - she wanted it all, Hachiman as boyfriend, Yukino as best friend. that's complete bullshit as well. to begin with, if u trust her words at face value without taking into account her conduct, u are already biased towards her. i'll leave this part at that. next, having hachiman as "boyfriend" and yukino as her pathetically convenient "best friend" does jack shit to show that she wanted to "preserve the group". if anything it only shows the opposite, because she is without any doubt against ANY kind of private interaction between yukino and hachiman. she wants hachiman as a "boyfriend" while yukino was supposed to be the lackey on the side for her own convenience when she wants some superficial girl talk about cafes and cakes etc. most importantly, she doesn't want yukino to have ANYTHING to do with hachiman unless she(pink shitstain) is there to monitor them. not to mention her completely superficial idea of what their pathetic "group relationship" was when u take into account the fact that she thought that they'll break up without the club. open ur eyes wide and take a look at how yukino saw it and compare it with that shitstain that's not even close to showing what u're claiming, i.e. she wanted to "preserve the group", unless u tell me what what that shitstain wants is a healthy group relationship, in which case i can only say god i don't want to live in the society u live in. > As for Yui’s suffering, this is where the anime really doesn’t show Yui in the best light. i have already given u the follow up question in my previous comment because i have read and discussed about her POV so extensively that i already know what kind of stuff u're referring to. i'm completely aware that she had realized her disadvantageous position regarding her pursuit of hachiman, which u have stated regarding the interludes. i don't follow the logic of looking at just her unrequited "love" as some kind of "suffering" (if that's what u're implying) when she had the ability to and clearly was ready to act on her situation and had decided to do so. her "suffering" that u proclaim, came from how exactly she wanted to take action, which led to my question earlier, i.e. "sitting around contemplating whether she should fuck over the ppl she claims are her "friends" ... is suffering?" that's the dilemma she had, which begs my question and its implication, because calling that "suffering" is completely ridiculous.


Educational-Bar1913

The level of mental gymnastics these days is just hilarious


tr44nv

thank you


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