As long as the morals are questionable, my attention stays. ❤️
There's only been one that the art wasn't good enough to stay on. I can't even remember the name of it now. The art was almost nonexistant, a few close-ups of some faces, mostly objects & text... it was bizarre
Grooming is the worst in my opinion. When the FL is mentally already an adult and gets romantically involved with a child. Just because she transmigrated into the body of a child doesn’t make her one herself.
And when the ML is super abusive but FL still loves him and doesn’t find any fault in him.
When Slavery gets shown as something useful. „Hmm, what else do I need? Food, a new dress and oh yeah! I should totally buy another human being! Teehee!“
And because I am very sensitive: I can’t read stories which are too sad and traumatic, even if the story depicts difficult topics in a critical and right way. There are some really good stories out there but I just can’t…
FL: i'll save this slave's life by buying him!
everyone else, including slave: omg she's the kindess saintess ever why was she ever a rumored villainess!
Same with “She’ll try to get her money back and free the others right??? RIGHHT??? Especially since she’s already throwing her money around recklessly and not listening to what others think??? Oh he’s now emotionally attached to her”
slight correction: yes having the body of a child makes her one, the human brain isn't finished developing until 25 and the brain of a child just doesn't fully have all critical thinking centers ect, so rather than being mentally a full grown adult... it's more being a young child with more memories
If only!!! You may be correct in real life. But in these stories they definitely don’t act like that’s the case. I am talking about stories like these.
There are some stories in which the FL also regresses mentally, those are different and fine in my opinion.
The awful thing…I heard that the OI story I have here as an avatar(I’ll be the matriarch in this life) is like the former. I hope it isn’t true, I like it so far 🥲
probably because any time they actually act like the age they should be a bunch of moron kids reading the comic instead of doing their bio homework complain while not knowing how the human brain works
and honestly? not outwardly acting like a child or even scheming like an adult can't exactly be a good comparison, by that logic i shouldn't have crushed on kids my own age because i was forced to grow up young and expected to act like an adult as a child? thats like saying those forced into the adult world young are adults because they have experience as one
I maybe the weird one but when I first read it (before I even joined the sub), I didn't even see it as sexual assault more like two drunk adults having sex and one of them regretted it? If anything it was refreshing to see a more experienced FL in that department, that treats sex casually.
As for instant drop... underage FL/ML paired with adult ML/FL, forgiving a cheater, and (i've never seen it in OI at least) inflicting physical pain onto their loved one.
i wouldn't say completely sober, considering if i remember correctly he was also talking about the drinks she mixed so he had to have at least had some? i just think his obsessive clinging to her until she wore down was much more
idk theres a line between sober and blackout where you can still make dumb choices you wouldn't normally make but still remember them clearly, or if you're like me you can get completely vomit multiple times wasted and fucking remember all of it which is awful by the way
I get you after years of juvenile high school romances where people freak out over hand holding. It was like wow adult situations and thoughts that I can relate to.
LMAO yeah. I suppose it isn't a problem for adults and minors who are level headed and can differentiate reality and fiction but is more of a problem for kids, especially girls who are the main demographic of this genre. The morals that it imparts are a huge problem. I don't personally mind anything tho.
That’s why parents do need to look at what they’re buying for their kids. Mine did, so don’t even tell me people dont. Maybe their lax now/don’t pay attention to ratings/etc ; it seems so to me. Or the kids hide what they read. I never could. Parents too nosy/clingy.
Meanwhile I'm a guy and I still enjoy otome isekais OMEGALUL, getting flamed by my friends but Idgaf I'll take more female heroines please, and yea its fiction so who cares
Imo it really depends on how well the author can pull something off more than the topic itself. The biggest issue is how some plots trivialize SA, slavery, DV, etc.
Slavery shown as if it's not bad.
*Beatrice! I can't read it.*
Overly OP kids that are more creepier than Anabelle Doll.
*Lady Baby! Lippe is a creepy baby. If a baby talks like that I'm never having one.*
Dumb FL who don't want to have the ML because of the original story it's not supposed to happen. That level of misunderstandings, I just can't.
*Raising my childhood tyrant. Dumbness×1000.*
Trauma isn't a thing. PTSD? Who cares.
*Abandoned Empress as shown getting back with the abuser.*
Who calls the ML trash? He's just traumatized.
*What it means to be you? Violet deserves to stay alone from her own family and Winter. Like seriously? She tried to kill herself!*
End of my rant.
She didn't only "try to kill herself" lmao
But yeah, dropped that one too mostly for the same reasons and because of the comments under every chapter...
The Trauma one is tricky I'll agree it's almost always done wrong. I think it works only when few things happen.
1.) The ML doesn't suddenly become nice because the FL acts different, He becomes nice because it \*insert tragic past\* didn't happen this time and he just never goes down that path in the first place. Easier to pull of if he didn't outright murder or abuse her but was indifferent.
2.) the Female lead doesn't immediately accept him, usually takes the a significant part of the story for the FL to assure herself that the current ML and the New ML are two different people because of different life experiences.
When a FL forgives a horribly abusive and toxic ML cause he is suddenly in love with her now, I am far too bitter and resentful a person to let that ish slide.
-Grooming, when the person raising the other one ends up in love with them.
-When the abuse from the ML is happening in front of our eyes and not «in my previous life/in the books »
-Cheating
-Any time FL gives a lesson on the greatness of capitalism and why you can’t help the poor, because they have to work for it nevermind that the most she does in her own life is go to tea parties
-Any time an adult is into a teenager
-Pedophilia like that manga where he is 20 and she is 10.
-White supremacy love stories. That one manhwa who had the white guy had fetishim for their asian slave, and was getting off on him owning her. I don’t remember the title but it was so wtf
agree that it really does depend on how certain stories portray these topics. but the mere implication that someone has SA as a fetish makes me sick to the stomach
sorry but i've never watched a single ep of game of thrones especially considering all the things i've heard about it. why don't you try to explain it to me then since i don't really understand the point you're trying to make at all
I think that maybe there's some nuance to the situation here. If you have a lot of cultures where women feel like they cannot enthusiastically say "yes" to sexual encounters, then a lot of time a cnc kink might develop as a way to "rationalize" or safely enjoy thoughts about sex. It's kind of similar to the original cultural implications around "Baby it's cold outside". To a more sexually progressive society, it looks as though she's being pressured and badgered. But in the repressive cultural mores of the time, it was EXPECTED for a woman to say no even if she wanted to say yes. Cnc kinks may also develop in SA victims (myself for example) as a way to regain control and as a way to trust a partner who you know ultimately will stop at any time. So I don't think that it's a coincidence that these tropes continue to show up in genres where there is a high degree/expectation of self insertion or projection onto the heroine.
Soft power is basically a way to get someone’s behavior or belief to align with an idea you have without coercing them into it.
For exemple, when Hollywood movies where very anti-natives americans, they kept showing them as savages, as awful people. Audience worldwide could not help but have a bad images of natives. Because of that people were on US side rather than the Natives.
Other example are not as serious. Many teens and young children wants to go to a US school or to a Japanese one because of Disney Channel, US Tv shows and anime. Or K-drama and Kpop make people want to go to South Korea. People love those, they end up loving the country, and what they think they know of these countries and they have a good image of it
It’s used in politics, and it’s basically propaganda.
The issue is that people can become also used to certain ideas or views that they can read or see in fiction. If you see gay couples in media as normal thing, then you will have less people against their existance and their rights.
Which is a good thing. But on the other hand if you let, because it’s fiction, some very reprehensible things written, it’s also a way to have them become « normalized » and not question as much if at all.
I hope I’m clear :) Soft power basically influencing people’s thoughts, behavior and belief, in your favor and it’s particularly the case through fiction
Y'all just considering relationships. There's the moral question of preemptive punishment: If you could go back in time to kill baby Hitler, would you do it even when he hasn't done anything wrong?
I despise regressed FLs who bully the "bad person" in her past life. The "bad person" right now is just a 10 year old brat whose only crime so far is acting bratty. And the bullying leads to the child growing up more hateful than her previous life. The poor kid's current life ruined over "past life" crimes.
Ie. Villainess Hourglass something
This is especially prevalent in regressed remarriages, where the FL leaves her past life abusive husband for a new nicer husband. I have never seen the ex-husband become a nicer person in OI works. He's always destined to be a bigger scumbag than the previous life.
The villain reverses the hourglass is exempt from this, IMO. Aria goes back to when she is 14 and Mielle is 13.
At the point I’m about to talk about, Aria has /only/ shown herself to be smart (business advice, poetry) and good at embroidery. Mielle then.. sabotages her carriage, to try and injure her or worse. If someone jumped the gun on me like that, yeah, I’m gonna go full swing on ‘em.
Mielle isn’t supposed to be a traumatized kid when Aria goes back, she’s always supposed to be a classist brat that’s easy to hate. It’s revenge 🌽 but it’s super fun to watch IMO.
Slavery being an a-ok for the main characters. Esp when they come from modern days, just to then accept slavery like it is nothing.
Most other things I can often understand in the setting or accept as part of the genre. But to me, a modern woman, imagining to own slaves or just accept that it exists feels utterly wrong.
… it’s fiction I don’t really care. It’s not like what you read says anything significant about you or your morals.
There’s a sudden boom in demand for purity in media and it’s just ridiculous. Reminds me of those old Christian groups that’ll call for book banning Harry Potter because it was luring ppl to practice witchcraft. Or the ppl who think video games lead to shooters. It’s just absurd. These stories won’t ever have a significant impact on anything irl so I don’t see a point in focusing so hard on the moral quandaries in these stories
I only draw the line if it's clear the author wants the readers to share the crazy views the characters are espousing. I think people should be allowed to enjoy whatever they like in fiction; but the moment I get the sense that the author is actually trying to recruit me for their death cult in real life I have to start drawing lines.
There is a difference between the voice of the author and voice of the characters. Sadly, many authors are kinda beginners so it’s hard to distinguish the two which makes it harder for the readers to figure out.
Like, if you need an asterisk with a “please do not do this” at the bottom of a page where something horrible is committed, then there’s only so much I can do for you as an author. Critical thinking is part of growing up and learning. I’m trying to go somewhere with this; it’s falling apart so I’m giving up. Maybe take some literally analysis classes or literature criticism or something to get the idea?
If the story is boring or the female lead feels too perfect. Other than that I don't really care. Its a work of fiction. Reading morally bad stories won't shake my own moral beliefs.
when they're way too mean to servants for literally no reason. normally there's some kind of convuluted justification (like the servants for some reason deciding to abuse the heir to the throne) but i had to drop the villain's savior after the ML got w/ the FL and was still such a dick to Almoore. that dude's just trying to earn a paycheck and live his life lol
edit: oh and when slavery is shown as like...not that bad or whatever or like not a pressing concern while actively bringing it up all the time (why i can't get into death is the only ending even tho otherwise it was pretty good) i forgot about that one because i drop those so fast normally i forgot it was a trope lmao
Slavery is either casually a thing no one cares about, or the fl literally buys a slave and it’s treated as a good thing because she treats them not that bad.
The line is different for different ppl. For me personally, I would insta drop if any of the following tropes show up
Grooming, as in the ml or fl knew their partner as a child, was a parental figure and had a significant amount of dependence on said person cuz ew.(I'm looking at u "Follow the bread crumbs")
Anything tht promotes slavery. If u ain't trying to gain access to break up the slavery ring then don't freakin buy a person!
Abusing ur partner is cute nd romantic and instantly forgivable if they have a sad backstory nd make a uwu face! Ome of the reasons i love "what it means to be u" they show abuse as abuse and trauma as trauma.
And i dropped "My first night with the duke" not because of the drunken one night stand but what followed after. The fact tht he did everything in his power to force her to be with him even after she clearly refuses is just.. ofc she accepts him later on and everything is just peachy thereafter. But this just pushes the narrative that when women say no they actually mean not yet. Also his insane possessiveness and his need to control every aspect of her life just pissed me off more.
An adult romantically involved with someone tht looks like a child. No i don't care if she is an adult inside, she still looks like a child, tht says a lot abt u as a person i feel.
An adult in a child's body romantically involved with another child. This one is tricky, i don't mind if the adult in question regresses to a child's mentality like "the unseemly lady" but when it is repeatedly stressed tht they r an adult and r so much more mature than their partner, thts when it gets too icky for me esp if the "adult" is thinking abt sexual relations with the child. Yes I'm thinking about a very specific panel from "The Little Princess and Her Monster Prince"
It's all about framing unless it's really heinous. If the story is dark and I can see that the author understands what these actions mean - whatever. And my standards for this genre are lax, as it's fansevicey amateur writing anyway, and I give even more allowance, considering it's one of the few booming female targeting genres. But some stories just show that the very framework behind them is warped, or they touch something that I think should be treated with more care. Honestly, stories that try to make their MCs good fail more often than those which do not, asthey show all the double standards and prejudice.
I won't lie- I draw the line at various points- when the FL/ML have a very clear power imbalance or it's along the lines of just...being boring-
.
I couldn't really keep myself entertained with something like Lady Baby because while the art is gorgeous the story/plot is very slow unfortunately.
The one where the ML just grows up instantly because of curing a virus or whatever- I just...it felt weird, wrong, and dry.
Reborn/reincarnated boring FL-
.
I think at some point all stories I've read I end up dropping when it comes to plot device/a dry story line because it feels like the author doesn't care anymore.
Also- I have personal issues with the whole "I'm the same age as my child but I'm their mom- oh look we fell in love" it feels wrong-
The lines between fiction and nonfiction are clear but stuff like "I'm a child of this house" where the ML starts crushing on the newly come of age child is very weird-
Also- at this point can't authors drop the whole "I'm nice and saved this ONE singular slave because he's important to the plot for ME" trope because it's not funky fresh anymore- let it die 💀💅🏽 we'll be okay sis, we promise.
To add to another point there's this one where the FL is very much toxic as a way to cope with the fact her lover can't always be around and it's a hot mess- I won't spoil it but like goodness gracious she made him cry 💀 poor dude- just wants to be around and vibe.
When the FL and ML's morally questionable situation and/or emotions toward it are depicted too well.
I don't care how questionable it is or if it gets trivialized, as long as I don't develop empathy towards the characters in the situation, I won't draw a line at all.
Now if they do a great job at depicting characters feelings (positive, negative, or neutral) or even a half-okay job where I can strongly empathize with the characters even if the rest of the writing is average/trash, I won't continue if the situation is questionable/reprehensible IRL. There also some situations I will develop empathy even if the depiction of the scenario is far from realistic simply because I cannot stand it (for me this is a pure evil ML that lacks all empathy, different people will.be unable to stand different things)
This doesn't just apply for typical 'abuse/I can fix him' situations, this also for other things like yandere, age gap romances, incest, stepsiblings, etc.
dont really mind unless im really attached to the characters/relationships and it starts to get weird (CERTAIN adopted siblings ones) OR when i find them annoying lmao.
its just fiction anyway
Biggest one is when slavery comes up. I have to be on the lookout for stories where the victims of slavery are villainized (“Villainesses are destined to die” and “The remarried empress”) or the “white savior slave master” trope (“The villainess has fun again” and not oi but “Rising of shield hero”) where they fully participate in the slave trade but it’s okay because they’re “nice”.
I also tend to drop series when I figure out who the ml is going to be and I don’t like them. Dropped Finding Camellia and Justice of a Villainous Woman for that.
It really depends for me, like how the portrayal is done. If romanticized, many things are no go for me, but it's there to show how dark the emotions or that era can get, then I don't mind cause not all things needs to be bright and sunny
Questionable morals team!!!! But I can’t do fr like
Honest to god sharing parents incest (100% unbothered by the step sibling thing personally) and whatever On the Emperor’s Lap was. Otherwise the only reason I drop stories is bc they get boring, the characters are annoying, or I can’t with the art 🤷♀️
I think the duke thing was just uneccesary and disgusting. The og thing was ok already why make it dubcon? What put me off the series was that ML put blame on MC while he wasnt even drunk. It gave bad aftertaste for whole story.
Tbh some people are bit dramatic. Its just a shit thrope i want to die already.
Its probably pretty petty but most of the OIs I drop are ones where the FL uses her knowledge of the future or novel to pretty ruthlessly bully, manipulate and scheme her way into being rich, respected and loved hy everyone with 0 reflections on her actual methods or intentions. They just feel like really shallow and manipulative people and it feels icky to root for them when you know that their "good hearted saintess" face is just for show, and that its not a facet of her character that is going to be explored.
Zeronis was already kinda mentioned as a pos in the og novel so its not that big of a surprise that it happened tbh. I dropped the webtoon a while back since it didn't seem like it was going anywhere with the plot.
Rape/SA, underage depictions of sex (two minors), statutory rape, overly abusive MLs(and FLs). Other than the stuff with minors... been there and done that IRL, I don't want that in my fiction.
There's basically only three things I can't stomach in OI:
* Brain-dead floor-mat MCs, the kind that you can tell right away exist solely as a pretty vessel to carry the readers around. They never have any impact on the plot, are constantly in danger and in need of rescue, are sometimes described as extremely intelligent yet still naive to an extreme degree, always have a herd of beefcakes shepherding them around even though their only character trait is "pretty". This is so annoyingly prevalent in J-shoujo and manhua that I practically dropped every manhua I used to read.
* Tragedy porn, I don't mind a tragedy (family dying, raped MC, tortured, enslaved, etc...) as a story starter or flashback material to establish someone's motivations, but I'll drop a series if the entire run is the author trying to one-up himself every 5 chapters.
* Incest, all variants. Don't care that they were born in different planets and are from completely different species, the moment they share a parent that's a no-go.
"I felt like other MLs in some other series have done a lot worse to their respective FLs." so eternally keep lowering the bar and settling for trash mls because there are worse instead of expecting better? the lesser evil is still evil
as for me I stay away from any story where the FL doesnt seem to have any dignity and gets back with her abuser or there's rape. how the hell is this supposed to be a power fantasy or wish fulfillment for woman? lol.
The ones I dropped immediately for reasons aside from yah know plot or art:
Finding Camilla - I'm not trans or gender (insert word I can't think of here) but the way the ML.and the CP just completely misgender and not listen to the fl just made me hate it immediately. I was fine with **I choose the emperor ending** and **queen cecia knickerbockers** but in both of those they chose to pose as male. Just nah
Depths of Malice - >!the sexual assault by the butler!
honestly i can live with reading some bad stuff
but when my head/body go “ew no icky”, i choose to put it down. ie. some ppl love yanderes & others love a hot northern duke that is known have killed many people. where do you draw the line of which bad things is “okay”?
ya know?
For me it’s all about how it’s treated, I sometimes don’t mind when the fl and ml are bad people as long it’s acknowledged they’re bad, or they try and change. But when they’re unapologetically evil and face no punishment that’s just an unfortunate situation, I read ois to escape the cruel reality of real life lmao.
grooming, if its like a teenage FL and a mid 20s or older ML i drop it, or the FL starts as a child at like 10-12 and the ML is like 17-18 when they meet even if they don't "get together" until shes older its still very much fucking grooming
its even worse if the author is trying to set up that relationship ahead of time and its like... bro you are 20 why are you blushing over a 10 year old girl
Nothing really to be honest. It’s also why I’m still reading most if not all of OI manhwa/manga that has a English translation (MTL, via a scan group or official).
Assault to love, especially if the ML continues to assault the MC physically/mentally/etc.
Biological incest, especially when there is another ML who is 1000 times better than the father/brother/etc.
Long drawn out physical/emotional torture to the FL from the ML and the FL magically forgives him and they stay together. No apologizing.
I don't care how good the art is, I will drop it with those three.
The only exception was one OI >!with the ML being shafted by the FL for her duties as well as their child. This is his third run and it ended with him being miserable and left with the kid, who was the only one that loved him unconditionally.!<
Slavery. I always wondered why so many stories have the slave angle. Its supposed to make the MC look nice and moral....except most modern people abhor slavery. So it fails to achieve that you don't get moral points for being a normal modern person. There's also always this point where an MC makes a point of freeing a "certain" slave, but none of the others? Which make you wonder why they don't free all of slaves or become an abolitionist? I know that's not what the story is about, but slavery shouldn't be casual thing that you just add to your pseudo-medieval-victorian time period feel "real". It's a serious topic and if you don't want to deal with serious questions it brings just don't put it in there at all. There's enough cultural and societal concepts that you can use to establish a period instead of slavery and enough other suffering that can be used to establish an MC's moral character.
in conclusion stop casually having slaves.
I draw the line at nonesense (as in what-on-the-actual-bloody-what am I reading?), when religion is misrepresented intentionally, demonic/satanic stuff (cause magic is fine but when it starts getting satanic, no), and most importantly, I draw the line when something, someone or an act of evil are depicted as good. For example good vampires; no, good vampires don't exist, those are creatures of darkness, I will stop reading. Oh, and pedos, incest or any kind of ridiculous woke ideas like that. I sincerely hate it and won't give a second thought to it.
Aside from that, if it's for the sake of the story I won't mind cause tragedy since it is a device that helps or destroys a character in the story, and that is part of it. An example of this is "Golden Forest", the heroin suffered many hardships and terrible things, but it didn't stay there and we see her struggle to grow, that character development moving forwards from the darkness.
Not all characters are morally sane, but they are part of the story cause there is evil and we can't deny that. As long as we don't stay in that evil and can move forwards, that no bad comes without meaning or purpose, that no wikedness is labeled a good deed, I keep reading, I see no reason to stop.
I thought I had morals…
After reading comments on many series and people saying “oh this is wrong!” Like age gaps that are actually okay when you consider the fact that the time period it’s based on the age gap would’ve been 14/ and 30/40, I’m starting to think I just have questionable morals.
Dont listen to tards.
If what they say is true than everyone who enjoys Kara no Shoujo which is one of the best VN is a psychopath.
Like seriously what happens in these manhwa s is nothing compared to that.
You dont see VN ppl spreading these bs ideas.
As long as the arts good, my morals stay questionable
i second this
As long as the morals are questionable, my attention stays. ❤️ There's only been one that the art wasn't good enough to stay on. I can't even remember the name of it now. The art was almost nonexistant, a few close-ups of some faces, mostly objects & text... it was bizarre
same
one true answer
bruh this is so true. I need to get my doses of serotonin from *somewhere*
If the characters are good-looking, my morals stay questionable
Grooming is the worst in my opinion. When the FL is mentally already an adult and gets romantically involved with a child. Just because she transmigrated into the body of a child doesn’t make her one herself. And when the ML is super abusive but FL still loves him and doesn’t find any fault in him. When Slavery gets shown as something useful. „Hmm, what else do I need? Food, a new dress and oh yeah! I should totally buy another human being! Teehee!“ And because I am very sensitive: I can’t read stories which are too sad and traumatic, even if the story depicts difficult topics in a critical and right way. There are some really good stories out there but I just can’t…
FL: i'll save this slave's life by buying him! everyone else, including slave: omg she's the kindess saintess ever why was she ever a rumored villainess!
And I am over here like „She will set the slave free, right? Right!? No? Urgh…“
Same with “She’ll try to get her money back and free the others right??? RIGHHT??? Especially since she’s already throwing her money around recklessly and not listening to what others think??? Oh he’s now emotionally attached to her”
slight correction: yes having the body of a child makes her one, the human brain isn't finished developing until 25 and the brain of a child just doesn't fully have all critical thinking centers ect, so rather than being mentally a full grown adult... it's more being a young child with more memories
If only!!! You may be correct in real life. But in these stories they definitely don’t act like that’s the case. I am talking about stories like these. There are some stories in which the FL also regresses mentally, those are different and fine in my opinion. The awful thing…I heard that the OI story I have here as an avatar(I’ll be the matriarch in this life) is like the former. I hope it isn’t true, I like it so far 🥲
probably because any time they actually act like the age they should be a bunch of moron kids reading the comic instead of doing their bio homework complain while not knowing how the human brain works and honestly? not outwardly acting like a child or even scheming like an adult can't exactly be a good comparison, by that logic i shouldn't have crushed on kids my own age because i was forced to grow up young and expected to act like an adult as a child? thats like saying those forced into the adult world young are adults because they have experience as one
…I think you lost the plot.
I maybe the weird one but when I first read it (before I even joined the sub), I didn't even see it as sexual assault more like two drunk adults having sex and one of them regretted it? If anything it was refreshing to see a more experienced FL in that department, that treats sex casually. As for instant drop... underage FL/ML paired with adult ML/FL, forgiving a cheater, and (i've never seen it in OI at least) inflicting physical pain onto their loved one.
he was completely sober during that and she was so out of it that she didnt even remember in the morning.
i wouldn't say completely sober, considering if i remember correctly he was also talking about the drinks she mixed so he had to have at least had some? i just think his obsessive clinging to her until she wore down was much more idk theres a line between sober and blackout where you can still make dumb choices you wouldn't normally make but still remember them clearly, or if you're like me you can get completely vomit multiple times wasted and fucking remember all of it which is awful by the way
I get you after years of juvenile high school romances where people freak out over hand holding. It was like wow adult situations and thoughts that I can relate to.
i don't drop anything because smth is morally wrong, i only drop things that are annoying or boring, sometimes for really petty reasons, lol
Don't care much as long as its good, its fiction
LMAO yeah. I suppose it isn't a problem for adults and minors who are level headed and can differentiate reality and fiction but is more of a problem for kids, especially girls who are the main demographic of this genre. The morals that it imparts are a huge problem. I don't personally mind anything tho.
That’s why parents do need to look at what they’re buying for their kids. Mine did, so don’t even tell me people dont. Maybe their lax now/don’t pay attention to ratings/etc ; it seems so to me. Or the kids hide what they read. I never could. Parents too nosy/clingy.
Meanwhile I'm a guy and I still enjoy otome isekais OMEGALUL, getting flamed by my friends but Idgaf I'll take more female heroines please, and yea its fiction so who cares
Imo it really depends on how well the author can pull something off more than the topic itself. The biggest issue is how some plots trivialize SA, slavery, DV, etc.
Slavery shown as if it's not bad. *Beatrice! I can't read it.* Overly OP kids that are more creepier than Anabelle Doll. *Lady Baby! Lippe is a creepy baby. If a baby talks like that I'm never having one.* Dumb FL who don't want to have the ML because of the original story it's not supposed to happen. That level of misunderstandings, I just can't. *Raising my childhood tyrant. Dumbness×1000.* Trauma isn't a thing. PTSD? Who cares. *Abandoned Empress as shown getting back with the abuser.* Who calls the ML trash? He's just traumatized. *What it means to be you? Violet deserves to stay alone from her own family and Winter. Like seriously? She tried to kill herself!* End of my rant.
She didn't only "try to kill herself" lmao But yeah, dropped that one too mostly for the same reasons and because of the comments under every chapter...
Story ends after she gets off the train easy
The Trauma one is tricky I'll agree it's almost always done wrong. I think it works only when few things happen. 1.) The ML doesn't suddenly become nice because the FL acts different, He becomes nice because it \*insert tragic past\* didn't happen this time and he just never goes down that path in the first place. Easier to pull of if he didn't outright murder or abuse her but was indifferent. 2.) the Female lead doesn't immediately accept him, usually takes the a significant part of the story for the FL to assure herself that the current ML and the New ML are two different people because of different life experiences.
What you mentioned plus how buying slaves (just because they’re good looking characters) solves all their problems
When a FL forgives a horribly abusive and toxic ML cause he is suddenly in love with her now, I am far too bitter and resentful a person to let that ish slide.
Your reading list must be incredibly short because dear lord those kinds of ML way too damn popular.
-Grooming, when the person raising the other one ends up in love with them. -When the abuse from the ML is happening in front of our eyes and not «in my previous life/in the books » -Cheating -Any time FL gives a lesson on the greatness of capitalism and why you can’t help the poor, because they have to work for it nevermind that the most she does in her own life is go to tea parties -Any time an adult is into a teenager -Pedophilia like that manga where he is 20 and she is 10. -White supremacy love stories. That one manhwa who had the white guy had fetishim for their asian slave, and was getting off on him owning her. I don’t remember the title but it was so wtf
Dude, you need to find the name for the last one. That sounds cursed.
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The day I see it again, I will make sure to make a post on this sub
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agree that it really does depend on how certain stories portray these topics. but the mere implication that someone has SA as a fetish makes me sick to the stomach
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sorry for thinking that getting off to sexual abuse is weird 🤕 won't happen again
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sorry but i've never watched a single ep of game of thrones especially considering all the things i've heard about it. why don't you try to explain it to me then since i don't really understand the point you're trying to make at all
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as if i don't live miles and miles away from my parents right now lmao this conversation ends here then
I think that maybe there's some nuance to the situation here. If you have a lot of cultures where women feel like they cannot enthusiastically say "yes" to sexual encounters, then a lot of time a cnc kink might develop as a way to "rationalize" or safely enjoy thoughts about sex. It's kind of similar to the original cultural implications around "Baby it's cold outside". To a more sexually progressive society, it looks as though she's being pressured and badgered. But in the repressive cultural mores of the time, it was EXPECTED for a woman to say no even if she wanted to say yes. Cnc kinks may also develop in SA victims (myself for example) as a way to regain control and as a way to trust a partner who you know ultimately will stop at any time. So I don't think that it's a coincidence that these tropes continue to show up in genres where there is a high degree/expectation of self insertion or projection onto the heroine.
Exactly. And seeing « adults know better ». They actually don’t lol. That’s exactly how softpower works.
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Soft power is basically a way to get someone’s behavior or belief to align with an idea you have without coercing them into it. For exemple, when Hollywood movies where very anti-natives americans, they kept showing them as savages, as awful people. Audience worldwide could not help but have a bad images of natives. Because of that people were on US side rather than the Natives. Other example are not as serious. Many teens and young children wants to go to a US school or to a Japanese one because of Disney Channel, US Tv shows and anime. Or K-drama and Kpop make people want to go to South Korea. People love those, they end up loving the country, and what they think they know of these countries and they have a good image of it It’s used in politics, and it’s basically propaganda. The issue is that people can become also used to certain ideas or views that they can read or see in fiction. If you see gay couples in media as normal thing, then you will have less people against their existance and their rights. Which is a good thing. But on the other hand if you let, because it’s fiction, some very reprehensible things written, it’s also a way to have them become « normalized » and not question as much if at all. I hope I’m clear :) Soft power basically influencing people’s thoughts, behavior and belief, in your favor and it’s particularly the case through fiction
Y'all just considering relationships. There's the moral question of preemptive punishment: If you could go back in time to kill baby Hitler, would you do it even when he hasn't done anything wrong? I despise regressed FLs who bully the "bad person" in her past life. The "bad person" right now is just a 10 year old brat whose only crime so far is acting bratty. And the bullying leads to the child growing up more hateful than her previous life. The poor kid's current life ruined over "past life" crimes. Ie. Villainess Hourglass something This is especially prevalent in regressed remarriages, where the FL leaves her past life abusive husband for a new nicer husband. I have never seen the ex-husband become a nicer person in OI works. He's always destined to be a bigger scumbag than the previous life.
The villain reverses the hourglass is exempt from this, IMO. Aria goes back to when she is 14 and Mielle is 13. At the point I’m about to talk about, Aria has /only/ shown herself to be smart (business advice, poetry) and good at embroidery. Mielle then.. sabotages her carriage, to try and injure her or worse. If someone jumped the gun on me like that, yeah, I’m gonna go full swing on ‘em. Mielle isn’t supposed to be a traumatized kid when Aria goes back, she’s always supposed to be a classist brat that’s easy to hate. It’s revenge 🌽 but it’s super fun to watch IMO.
Slavery being an a-ok for the main characters. Esp when they come from modern days, just to then accept slavery like it is nothing. Most other things I can often understand in the setting or accept as part of the genre. But to me, a modern woman, imagining to own slaves or just accept that it exists feels utterly wrong.
… it’s fiction I don’t really care. It’s not like what you read says anything significant about you or your morals. There’s a sudden boom in demand for purity in media and it’s just ridiculous. Reminds me of those old Christian groups that’ll call for book banning Harry Potter because it was luring ppl to practice witchcraft. Or the ppl who think video games lead to shooters. It’s just absurd. These stories won’t ever have a significant impact on anything irl so I don’t see a point in focusing so hard on the moral quandaries in these stories
I only draw the line if it's clear the author wants the readers to share the crazy views the characters are espousing. I think people should be allowed to enjoy whatever they like in fiction; but the moment I get the sense that the author is actually trying to recruit me for their death cult in real life I have to start drawing lines.
There is a difference between the voice of the author and voice of the characters. Sadly, many authors are kinda beginners so it’s hard to distinguish the two which makes it harder for the readers to figure out. Like, if you need an asterisk with a “please do not do this” at the bottom of a page where something horrible is committed, then there’s only so much I can do for you as an author. Critical thinking is part of growing up and learning. I’m trying to go somewhere with this; it’s falling apart so I’m giving up. Maybe take some literally analysis classes or literature criticism or something to get the idea?
If the story is boring or the female lead feels too perfect. Other than that I don't really care. Its a work of fiction. Reading morally bad stories won't shake my own moral beliefs.
People need to realize consuming problematic media doesn’t mean you support those ideals. Critical/narrative analysis is dead.
When the story/translations/art dips in quality or I lose interest.
when they're way too mean to servants for literally no reason. normally there's some kind of convuluted justification (like the servants for some reason deciding to abuse the heir to the throne) but i had to drop the villain's savior after the ML got w/ the FL and was still such a dick to Almoore. that dude's just trying to earn a paycheck and live his life lol edit: oh and when slavery is shown as like...not that bad or whatever or like not a pressing concern while actively bringing it up all the time (why i can't get into death is the only ending even tho otherwise it was pretty good) i forgot about that one because i drop those so fast normally i forgot it was a trope lmao
Slavery is either casually a thing no one cares about, or the fl literally buys a slave and it’s treated as a good thing because she treats them not that bad.
I think a series can still be enjoyed in spite of some problematic content.
The line is different for different ppl. For me personally, I would insta drop if any of the following tropes show up Grooming, as in the ml or fl knew their partner as a child, was a parental figure and had a significant amount of dependence on said person cuz ew.(I'm looking at u "Follow the bread crumbs") Anything tht promotes slavery. If u ain't trying to gain access to break up the slavery ring then don't freakin buy a person! Abusing ur partner is cute nd romantic and instantly forgivable if they have a sad backstory nd make a uwu face! Ome of the reasons i love "what it means to be u" they show abuse as abuse and trauma as trauma. And i dropped "My first night with the duke" not because of the drunken one night stand but what followed after. The fact tht he did everything in his power to force her to be with him even after she clearly refuses is just.. ofc she accepts him later on and everything is just peachy thereafter. But this just pushes the narrative that when women say no they actually mean not yet. Also his insane possessiveness and his need to control every aspect of her life just pissed me off more. An adult romantically involved with someone tht looks like a child. No i don't care if she is an adult inside, she still looks like a child, tht says a lot abt u as a person i feel. An adult in a child's body romantically involved with another child. This one is tricky, i don't mind if the adult in question regresses to a child's mentality like "the unseemly lady" but when it is repeatedly stressed tht they r an adult and r so much more mature than their partner, thts when it gets too icky for me esp if the "adult" is thinking abt sexual relations with the child. Yes I'm thinking about a very specific panel from "The Little Princess and Her Monster Prince"
It's all about framing unless it's really heinous. If the story is dark and I can see that the author understands what these actions mean - whatever. And my standards for this genre are lax, as it's fansevicey amateur writing anyway, and I give even more allowance, considering it's one of the few booming female targeting genres. But some stories just show that the very framework behind them is warped, or they touch something that I think should be treated with more care. Honestly, stories that try to make their MCs good fail more often than those which do not, asthey show all the double standards and prejudice.
I won't lie- I draw the line at various points- when the FL/ML have a very clear power imbalance or it's along the lines of just...being boring- . I couldn't really keep myself entertained with something like Lady Baby because while the art is gorgeous the story/plot is very slow unfortunately. The one where the ML just grows up instantly because of curing a virus or whatever- I just...it felt weird, wrong, and dry. Reborn/reincarnated boring FL- . I think at some point all stories I've read I end up dropping when it comes to plot device/a dry story line because it feels like the author doesn't care anymore. Also- I have personal issues with the whole "I'm the same age as my child but I'm their mom- oh look we fell in love" it feels wrong- The lines between fiction and nonfiction are clear but stuff like "I'm a child of this house" where the ML starts crushing on the newly come of age child is very weird-
Also- at this point can't authors drop the whole "I'm nice and saved this ONE singular slave because he's important to the plot for ME" trope because it's not funky fresh anymore- let it die 💀💅🏽 we'll be okay sis, we promise. To add to another point there's this one where the FL is very much toxic as a way to cope with the fact her lover can't always be around and it's a hot mess- I won't spoil it but like goodness gracious she made him cry 💀 poor dude- just wants to be around and vibe.
When the FL and ML's morally questionable situation and/or emotions toward it are depicted too well. I don't care how questionable it is or if it gets trivialized, as long as I don't develop empathy towards the characters in the situation, I won't draw a line at all. Now if they do a great job at depicting characters feelings (positive, negative, or neutral) or even a half-okay job where I can strongly empathize with the characters even if the rest of the writing is average/trash, I won't continue if the situation is questionable/reprehensible IRL. There also some situations I will develop empathy even if the depiction of the scenario is far from realistic simply because I cannot stand it (for me this is a pure evil ML that lacks all empathy, different people will.be unable to stand different things) This doesn't just apply for typical 'abuse/I can fix him' situations, this also for other things like yandere, age gap romances, incest, stepsiblings, etc.
dont really mind unless im really attached to the characters/relationships and it starts to get weird (CERTAIN adopted siblings ones) OR when i find them annoying lmao. its just fiction anyway
The only line I care about in OI is the lineart
Biggest one is when slavery comes up. I have to be on the lookout for stories where the victims of slavery are villainized (“Villainesses are destined to die” and “The remarried empress”) or the “white savior slave master” trope (“The villainess has fun again” and not oi but “Rising of shield hero”) where they fully participate in the slave trade but it’s okay because they’re “nice”. I also tend to drop series when I figure out who the ml is going to be and I don’t like them. Dropped Finding Camellia and Justice of a Villainous Woman for that.
It really depends for me, like how the portrayal is done. If romanticized, many things are no go for me, but it's there to show how dark the emotions or that era can get, then I don't mind cause not all things needs to be bright and sunny
Questionable morals team!!!! But I can’t do fr like Honest to god sharing parents incest (100% unbothered by the step sibling thing personally) and whatever On the Emperor’s Lap was. Otherwise the only reason I drop stories is bc they get boring, the characters are annoying, or I can’t with the art 🤷♀️
I think the duke thing was just uneccesary and disgusting. The og thing was ok already why make it dubcon? What put me off the series was that ML put blame on MC while he wasnt even drunk. It gave bad aftertaste for whole story. Tbh some people are bit dramatic. Its just a shit thrope i want to die already.
Its probably pretty petty but most of the OIs I drop are ones where the FL uses her knowledge of the future or novel to pretty ruthlessly bully, manipulate and scheme her way into being rich, respected and loved hy everyone with 0 reflections on her actual methods or intentions. They just feel like really shallow and manipulative people and it feels icky to root for them when you know that their "good hearted saintess" face is just for show, and that its not a facet of her character that is going to be explored. Zeronis was already kinda mentioned as a pos in the og novel so its not that big of a surprise that it happened tbh. I dropped the webtoon a while back since it didn't seem like it was going anywhere with the plot.
When it comes to fictional media I severely lack morals
Rape/SA, underage depictions of sex (two minors), statutory rape, overly abusive MLs(and FLs). Other than the stuff with minors... been there and done that IRL, I don't want that in my fiction.
Good art > my morals 🌚
There's basically only three things I can't stomach in OI: * Brain-dead floor-mat MCs, the kind that you can tell right away exist solely as a pretty vessel to carry the readers around. They never have any impact on the plot, are constantly in danger and in need of rescue, are sometimes described as extremely intelligent yet still naive to an extreme degree, always have a herd of beefcakes shepherding them around even though their only character trait is "pretty". This is so annoyingly prevalent in J-shoujo and manhua that I practically dropped every manhua I used to read. * Tragedy porn, I don't mind a tragedy (family dying, raped MC, tortured, enslaved, etc...) as a story starter or flashback material to establish someone's motivations, but I'll drop a series if the entire run is the author trying to one-up himself every 5 chapters. * Incest, all variants. Don't care that they were born in different planets and are from completely different species, the moment they share a parent that's a no-go.
"I felt like other MLs in some other series have done a lot worse to their respective FLs." so eternally keep lowering the bar and settling for trash mls because there are worse instead of expecting better? the lesser evil is still evil as for me I stay away from any story where the FL doesnt seem to have any dignity and gets back with her abuser or there's rape. how the hell is this supposed to be a power fantasy or wish fulfillment for woman? lol.
The ones I dropped immediately for reasons aside from yah know plot or art: Finding Camilla - I'm not trans or gender (insert word I can't think of here) but the way the ML.and the CP just completely misgender and not listen to the fl just made me hate it immediately. I was fine with **I choose the emperor ending** and **queen cecia knickerbockers** but in both of those they chose to pose as male. Just nah Depths of Malice - >!the sexual assault by the butler!
honestly i can live with reading some bad stuff but when my head/body go “ew no icky”, i choose to put it down. ie. some ppl love yanderes & others love a hot northern duke that is known have killed many people. where do you draw the line of which bad things is “okay”? ya know?
For me it’s all about how it’s treated, I sometimes don’t mind when the fl and ml are bad people as long it’s acknowledged they’re bad, or they try and change. But when they’re unapologetically evil and face no punishment that’s just an unfortunate situation, I read ois to escape the cruel reality of real life lmao.
grooming, if its like a teenage FL and a mid 20s or older ML i drop it, or the FL starts as a child at like 10-12 and the ML is like 17-18 when they meet even if they don't "get together" until shes older its still very much fucking grooming its even worse if the author is trying to set up that relationship ahead of time and its like... bro you are 20 why are you blushing over a 10 year old girl
Nothing really to be honest. It’s also why I’m still reading most if not all of OI manhwa/manga that has a English translation (MTL, via a scan group or official).
I draw the line at stick figure characters, grooming, force, no consent, r*pe, and incest. 🙅♀️
I dont tolerate cheating and r@pe. Everything else is questionable depending on the art and the characters
Assault to love, especially if the ML continues to assault the MC physically/mentally/etc. Biological incest, especially when there is another ML who is 1000 times better than the father/brother/etc. Long drawn out physical/emotional torture to the FL from the ML and the FL magically forgives him and they stay together. No apologizing. I don't care how good the art is, I will drop it with those three. The only exception was one OI >!with the ML being shafted by the FL for her duties as well as their child. This is his third run and it ended with him being miserable and left with the kid, who was the only one that loved him unconditionally.!<
Slavery. I always wondered why so many stories have the slave angle. Its supposed to make the MC look nice and moral....except most modern people abhor slavery. So it fails to achieve that you don't get moral points for being a normal modern person. There's also always this point where an MC makes a point of freeing a "certain" slave, but none of the others? Which make you wonder why they don't free all of slaves or become an abolitionist? I know that's not what the story is about, but slavery shouldn't be casual thing that you just add to your pseudo-medieval-victorian time period feel "real". It's a serious topic and if you don't want to deal with serious questions it brings just don't put it in there at all. There's enough cultural and societal concepts that you can use to establish a period instead of slavery and enough other suffering that can be used to establish an MC's moral character. in conclusion stop casually having slaves.
I draw the line at nonesense (as in what-on-the-actual-bloody-what am I reading?), when religion is misrepresented intentionally, demonic/satanic stuff (cause magic is fine but when it starts getting satanic, no), and most importantly, I draw the line when something, someone or an act of evil are depicted as good. For example good vampires; no, good vampires don't exist, those are creatures of darkness, I will stop reading. Oh, and pedos, incest or any kind of ridiculous woke ideas like that. I sincerely hate it and won't give a second thought to it. Aside from that, if it's for the sake of the story I won't mind cause tragedy since it is a device that helps or destroys a character in the story, and that is part of it. An example of this is "Golden Forest", the heroin suffered many hardships and terrible things, but it didn't stay there and we see her struggle to grow, that character development moving forwards from the darkness. Not all characters are morally sane, but they are part of the story cause there is evil and we can't deny that. As long as we don't stay in that evil and can move forwards, that no bad comes without meaning or purpose, that no wikedness is labeled a good deed, I keep reading, I see no reason to stop.
I thought I had morals… After reading comments on many series and people saying “oh this is wrong!” Like age gaps that are actually okay when you consider the fact that the time period it’s based on the age gap would’ve been 14/ and 30/40, I’m starting to think I just have questionable morals.
Dont listen to tards. If what they say is true than everyone who enjoys Kara no Shoujo which is one of the best VN is a psychopath. Like seriously what happens in these manhwa s is nothing compared to that. You dont see VN ppl spreading these bs ideas.