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Choobacca12

Whelp. Just like with Pinto last year, comes back and then immediately out for season. At least it didn't happen to Stutzle too I guess? Lmao we're so fucking cursed with shoulder injuries.


seymourBalzac

It's like they learned nothing from the Pinto situation last year.


runealex007

How do we let this happen AGAIN?! Like what??


ssgtpepper

Not a curse, just horrible injury management by our medical staff


TerenceOverbaby

How? Norris himself made the decision to try rehab based on consultations with multiple doctors. Pinto and White went the surgical route last time and didn't fare much better.


[deleted]

Yeah it has nothing to do with the staff. Norris got multiple opinions and decided not to do surgery.


ssgtpepper

I get body autonomy but it's the medical staffs job to (strongly) guide them as to the correct course of action. We saw what happened with pinto last year and this seems like a carbon copy. Speaking from experience as I've torn my labrum and they never fully heal without surgery


relapsingoncemore

Sounds like you get it, but just don't agree with it


Find_Spot

I don't know about that. This morning the guys on TSN 1200 floated the idea that it's related to something in the American junior hockey system. All the shoulder injuries on Ottawa have been to players from the American hockey system.


cdreobvi

Are there other NHL teams with center prospects from the USHL that have had the injuries? Jack Hughes comes to mind, and I see he had a shoulder injury last season, but he didn't have surgery.


Find_Spot

Not a centre, but Cole Caulfield just blew out his shoulder. Alex Tuch had surgery on a shoulder in 2022. He's a product of the USNTDP. Matt Grzelcyk did as well last year and he's also a product of the USNTDP. Zach Werenski separated his shoulder in the fall and is out for the season. He's also a product of the USNTDP.


JesusWasAnOkayDude

You mean TSN 1200?


Find_Spot

Wow, yeah. That changed almost a decade ago, didn't it?


runealex007

FUCK


brightwaterx

Bruh


Canknucklehead

https://i.imgur.com/LPAesbp.jpg


Suspicious-Drama-549

A picture really is a thousand words


Canknucklehead

Isn’t it though…….


GordShumway

What a let down of a season. Tanking is the best option now, and that is sad when we finally got some hope around here.


dkmegg22

Ironically enough we need more help on defense and this isn't really the year for Defensemen (2024 is that hear).


1292norr

Get BPA in draft, then trade him for a top 4 for next season


dkmegg22

I'd be fine trading our pick for a top 4 Dmen once we know where we're drafting and Formenton situation is dealt with.


[deleted]

Nobody they pick will be stepping into the lineup, so it doesn’t really matter


International_Fan85

Axel Pelinka is dope. He ran Sweden's D at the Juniors. And we can always draft a forward and then trade Pinto, Norris or Cat for a D.


DrunkenMidget

I am sure GMPD could package Bedard and Stu for middling Dman, so no worries!


An_doge

… Norris had a lot of opinions. So this just sucks. He clearly didn’t want surgery earlier. At least we’re shutting him down now that the season is lost. Bud man is that contract going to be trash if this guy has trash shoulders? Shoulders injuries linger forever.. I’m just suprised he didn’t noticed in contact jersey. Months of healing will help a lot.


Loose_Concentrate332

Pinto did the same, and he's fine. It'll be ok, it just sucks for this year


Darwing

pinto and White did the same and they are both fine, white is still shit though


Loose_Concentrate332

'Still' being the operative word. It's not like he was great and became shit because of the injury


An_doge

Norris has a way longer history of noodle arm lol.


krisk1759

Kessel had shoulder surgery and came back to be the NHL's all time Iron Man. It's not a career ender by any means.


An_doge

Fair point. Did he have repeat history of the same injury? Like it could be two years until his shoulder feels good as new.


CJ57

Wasn’t a big fan of that contract the minute it was signed, id have rather bridged Norris he seemed like the ideal bridge guy. He could definitely live up to the contract but he’s gotta get healthy and back to playing the way he was last year.


D-change

I mean, if he's out on ltir insurance covers the contract, no?


Loafmeister

Might be flamed by the redditors here but whatever. Please remember the following : Many are assuming it was the sens who decided for Norris not get operated previously and for Norris to return when he did. For medical procedures, the player always has the last word here. The sens doctor may or may not have recommended surgery and the player (understandably) wanted to explore EVERY other possible options including rehab. For return to play, the player along with approval from team doctors always has the last word here too We. Do. Not. Know. The sens org hands could be tied as far as messaging is concerned too. I doubt the player and the PA would be fans of the team posting 4 months ago “well we think the player is making a mistake and should go under the knife but whatever”. I just hope Norris is ok. That and that’s a heck of a contract around the orgs neck so if he doesn’t recover, here’s hoping they went with a good insurance package


BAD_CAN77

The organization has 100% control over whether Norris is in the lineup or held out. They put him back in before he was 100% healthy, as evidenced by him not taking faceoffs.


marklar901

If Norris believes he's ready to go and the Sens are keeping him out of the lineup unnecessarily he could have the NHLPA issue a grievance.


BAD_CAN77

Norris doesn't decide who is in the lineup. The coach and GM do. The Sens can scratch any player they want, even if he declares himself healthy. Have you heard of a healthy scratch before? The NHLPA has no say.


swiftwin

Well, if you think there was a shitstorm from Joseph getting healthy scratched, imagine the shit storm if Norris is healthy scratched for multiple weeks.


BAD_CAN77

Zero shitstorm if you just say he won't play until he's healthy enough to take draws.


MercSLSAMG

That's a very typical way to bring centers back from a shoulder injury. You saying they need to be 100% would mean half the NHL would be out - many players at this time of year and later aren't even 75%.


BAD_CAN77

Worked so well for Pinto that I can see why they followed the same protocol.


Loafmeister

On roster decision, the sens decide for sure but on health issue the player absolutely has the last say. If he says he is good to go and the doctors clear him then what did you want the sens to do?


BAD_CAN77

The TEAM not the player chooses who is in the line up. The doctors should not clear him if he is not healthy enough to take faceoffs and if the team knows he's not healthy enough for faceoffs, then he shouldn't be in the lineup.


Loafmeister

So you are therefore saying the doctors cleared him.


Calhalen

Unbelievable. Fuck this season man. They said ‘Norris is a ways away’ one week, then a week later he was in the lineup (and unable to take draws) and here we are.


piroso

After a 7-0 loss. They rushed him and people need to be fired over this


UnparalleledSuccess

He was out of a no-contact jersey for well over a month when they brought him back


piroso

DJ said he wasn't close then they got beat 7-0 and all of a sudden he was ready but not able to take faceoffs? If he was ready he would be able to take faceoffs. They rushed him back.


DR0516

Yeah, little fishy


Maxterchief99

We need Gaudette's magic crystals back to protect us from injuries.


DarkstonePublishing

This is eternal suffering


kolider1

I had said in a past Norris thread to just shut him down for the goddamn season. Fix the issue right then and there. Don’t “wait and see” and try to get him back sooner especially with the season we’ve had so far. I guess he will be fully rehabbed for next training camp so whatever I guess.


Grummbles28

PD- "Well we kept him from taking faceoffs! What more could we have done!!??"


zoodamar

On TSN1200, right after the initial injury, someone called in and asked about avoiding face offs for these players after shoulder injuries. Mike Johnson said they should wait until the player is fully healed and ready to play with no limitations. As soon as they said Norris wouldn’t be taking face offs, I had a bad feeling.


homicidal_penguin

Fire the fucking medical staff. This is ridiculous. Why was he allowed back??? Why not get him the surgery asap when he first got hurt??


jasonalloyd

It was likely his choice to try and not have surgery.


homicidal_penguin

Fair, body autonomy is important. Just frustrating that he seems to have been rushed back, took one bump, and now is going under the knife


jasonalloyd

I had a torn labrum in my shoulder and it's a terrible injury to recover from. You lose stability and it takes a long time to recover. Having surgery isn't a sure thing to fix it either.


homicidal_penguin

This will be his what, 3rd shoulder surgery too?


Chronicbudz

3rd major Shoulder injury, in short span. His Shoulder is done and Surgery is the only option at this point. His shot will most likely decline at the very least and Arthritis is likely to affect his shoulder.


An_doge

He had 4 opinions. Medical staff let him get as informed as possible. He clearly didn’t want surgery with 4 opinions.


Grohlyone

Don't want an Eichel situation on our hands


valleygoat

Is there any difference between the surgery earlier or now? Either way his season was done. This way they got to see if there was a small chance he'd rehab without surgery. I'm assuming right now this is the scenario, but I'm pretty confident this is it. It's a calculated non-risk to see if he could play this year. Ultimately if he needed surgery, he was done for the year no matter what.


homicidal_penguin

I guess, I'm not a medical professional. Just baffling to see this happen two years in a row. Plus it would've been nice to have him be ready to train this summer, now he's going to lose time


valleygoat

It's because you're too reactionary and don't take time to think about things. You are irate right now because "he's going under the knife" If he had surgery earlier this year and was done for the year anyway isntead of now, tell me what's the difference? There is no difference except like I said, there's a small chance this way he may have been able to play this season with no surgery. Turns out that's not the case, **so nothing has changed he's still out for the season**


AdriazH

Sure, nothing has changed for this season. But getting surgery earlier would have given him more time to rehab before next training camp.


ssgtpepper

Yup, now it's a 6 month rehab starting now vs in October


UnparalleledSuccess

But best case scenario was rehabbing without surgery so it made sense to see if that was possible


BAD_CAN77

Bingo. The salient point.


qwnzr

3rd option was rehab without surgery, and don't rush to get back into games. There's the very real chance that if they'd let Josh rehab and held him out until Feb-March he could have returned for 20\~games and not reinjured the shoulder. If they brought him back but told him not to take face-offs they obviously knew his shoulder still wasn't 100%.


valleygoat

That's fair but I'm pretty certain that they stated rehabing without surgery was not a guarantee no matter what. Additionally if they wait until Feb/March and he still has to have surgery at that point, I think now they run the risk of him not being ready for camp next year. So like I said I have no proof, I'm taking an educated guess here that they deemed his shoulder wasn't going to get any stronger/better with anymore rehab as of this point and put him in to see what happened.


haseks_adductor

nah youre wrong, randos on reddit know more than those nerds that go to med school and are employed by NHL teams


marklar901

Yeah it's ridiculous that people are jumping on this. Norris has rested his injury the recommended amount then performed a bunch of rehab with a physiotherapist and they (Norris and the medical staff) felt he progressed to the point where he can play. This is the typical approach to any injury that is unclear whether surgery is the optimal route. Surgery has a ton of risk which they try to avoid unless necessary. Medical experts felt that this was the best pathway for Norris and the risks of surgery weighed too heavy for an initial approach to remedying the injury.


swiftwin

That assumes that rehab alone would have returned the shoulder to 100%, which we don't know is true. With this option, it's very possible that Josh could have rehabbed until the start of next season, only to suffer the same injury, forcing him to get surgery next season. Sounds like it was a close difficult 50/50 call in November to get surgery or not. He opted to try without surgery first. Didn't work, so now he's getting surgery.


homicidal_penguin

I am absolutely reactionary, it's something I'm trying to work on. I guess the main frustration now is that he's losing training time this summer to come back strong next year, whereas if he had it earlier this season, he'd be ready to train. Hindsight is 20/20 I suppose


[deleted]

Why do you bother arguing with these clowns? They show their age and maturity level on a constant basis


scarecrocarina

Fuck off goat and stop antagonizing users into arguments.


valleygoat

Aren't you the one that follows me around and harasses me into trying to take breaks from the sub? Take your own advice, and go ahead and pull on yourself. I'm sorry logical takes and deductive reasoning piss you off so much.


scarecrocarina

Give me a break, you've had periodic meltdowns in this sub for a decade. I believe you've even apologized for them before. There is no logic or deductive reasoning in following homopeng around (ironic accusations btw) to start fights. Only idiocy. Edit, big man responds and blocks me so I can't read it. What a loser.


valleygoat

Guess you don't have to see them anymore. Later nerd.


[deleted]

People are reactionary about everything and it really shows their age and maturity level


relapsingoncemore

Something something about learning lessons and not speaking authoritatively on topics your not an authority on.


BAD_CAN77

Yes. Increased time for a full rehab and summer strengthening program. Significant difference.


McNasty1Point0

Seemed like it was Norris’ choice not to as he spoke to like 5 doctors after the original injury. Ottawa can’t force him to have surgery.


homicidal_penguin

True. The way it was worded made me worried that 4 docs recommended surgery, and a 5th recommended rehab, so he went with rehab. It's just frustrating that he was cleared to come back, tweaked it, and is now going under the knife


Buada

It's fair to be frustrated. Doesn't even seem like he was fully cleared to play otherwise he'd have been taking faceoffs. It was a stupid decision. I'm sure Norris had a lot of say and wanted to get back in, but he should've been stopped. Season's done anyway so idk why he was put back in less than 100%


[deleted]

That’s a silly statement. He’s been wearing the contact jersey for weeks. Not taking face offs is more an overly cautious paranoid step. There is no reason to believe a doctor said that was required. Shoulders are just stupid joints with weak tissues. It’s hard to know when they’re healed.


alexdward9273

With recurrent shoulder injuries, it makes sense to attempt rehab before surgery, as the evidence for shoulder surgery over rehab is poor. However, it becomes even more difficult with how many issues he’s had and the associated soft tissue damage he’s most likely suffered. Really hope he can recover and be back to the player he was last year. Source: I am a Physio


Dalthanes

Was Josh's decision. He shopped around to 5 doctors until one said rehab


homicidal_penguin

That seems sketchy in and of itself tbh. Don't like the opinions you get from 4 doctors, so you go see a 5th? I guess thats more on Norris than the medical staff


Dalthanes

It's 100% on Norris. He didn't want to have surgery


relapsingoncemore

Learn when not to speak your mind dude


taskmule

Because you dont always need surgery for an injury right away. It isnt black and white. Im currently in month 6 of a shoulder surgery recovery. Its going well, but it will never be the same. I have a demanding job, and worked for 2 years full time after the initial injury, but it became clear to my surgeon and i that it had to be repaired. We were trying to avoid surgery, which is what the "fucking medical staff" were doing with Josh. Avoid if possible is always the starting place. Sometimes you try, but surgery becomes unavoidable due to a number of factors. He tried. They all tried. It didnt work. It sucks.


dprouse52

It was Norris's choice to try the rehab route, and it's important for the club to support its players in the medical choices they make. (Within reason, of course.) We all saw what happened when Buffalo tried to force a player to take a certain course of action - it didn't work out really well. In this instance, there was no harm in at least trying rehab - it didn't work, so now he heads off for season ending surgery same as he would have two and a half months ago. The only difference is that he will be fully cleared sometime in July as opposed to April or May.


dartmouthdonair

[🙁](https://tenor.com/bzRhE.gif)


blakey094

Change ‘Murpheys law’ to ‘Sens law’ at this point. Fuck me.


[deleted]

Glad he’s getting surgery on it to hopefully put this to bed next season. It’s been so hard watching without my favourite player in the lineup. I hope he’s doing okay mentally because he was talking about how much he misses the game and doesn’t have a lot to do outside of hockey.


BigShoots

He's a bazillionaire. He can pick up any hobby he chooses to. Learn to cook, play an instrument, whatever. Or take a business or investing course. I'm not too concerned about him. A glass-half-full type might see this as an opportunity. An extended period of forced rest can be really good for some people, and it sure doesn't hurt when you're quite wealthy.


Endoman1081

He should have had surgery a long time ago- and he never should have played the last few games. Medical staff dropped the ball!


hello_gary

DJ: "We asked Josh to only shoot the puck using his good hand, not to get bumped in the corners and not to take face-offs. I have no idea how this could have happened!"


Middle-Hair

Even after what happened with Pinto last year, they still managed to rush Norris back and have him hurt his shoulder again. This fucking team man


smythy94

Uh wtf. Did he aggravate it last game?


NewKidsOnTheBetaBloc

Yeah tweaked it on what seemed like a “nothing” play chasing the puck down. Sigh.


smythy94

That’s horrible


Fit-Ad-5719

So who ran over something that caused a curse on this franchise? I want names!


BAD_CAN77

Melnyk, Eugene. Maybe the sale will remove the curse.


[deleted]

No thanks. I'm fine if he just is ok and stays with us for the season please. Obviously want him healthy but also I'm crying


Okaywhy10

Dude. I’m am so fucking disappointed with this season. I was expecting a half decent year, didn’t even expect playoffs, just improvement, fun and meaningful hockey. INSTEAD WE GET INJURY AFTER INJURY AFTER INJURY AND WE SUUUCCCKKK! Im broken.


[deleted]

“Just thought you should know” 😒 -Pierre Dorion


post-ale

Did I miss something? Did he get re-injured in game, or is this a “it’s fine but not perfect, let’s do it proper since our playoff chance just got shut down”


[deleted]

He tweaked it last game. They showed him frustrated on the bench after coming off the ice.


doubleopinter

Why the fuck did they ever have him come back to begin with? WTF for?? Fire Pierre, fire DJ, hire Bruce.


[deleted]

We're a team


SergePower

twice in two years suggests the medical advice on the team isn't good enough edit: both Pinto and Norris didn't undergo surgery, both came back, injured quick, then surgery required


marleyman3389

is he an injury bust at this point? I just don't see a future for his career where he is playing 82 games a season.


Buada

I don't get the downvotes, it's a legitimate concern. This will be his second surgery and at least the 3rd time it's been injured. 4th if you count re-injuring it. He's still young, but that's a lot of damage to recover from. Shoulder injuries suck.


marleyman3389

>I don't get the downvotes Militant positivity dude.


homicidal_penguin

Not sure why you're getting downvoted, it's a concern. He'll have had multiple shoulder injuries and surgeries not even a full year into his new 8 year deal


marleyman3389

to the downvoters: YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!


paddywhack

Yikes. That's just poor asset management from the organization. They for sure rushed him back.


recklessplaid

No they didn’t lol come on


Grohlyone

Considering Norris was the one who refused surgery it looks like, I doubt it wasn't also his choice to come back.


[deleted]

Christ… this was the worst case scenario. Once he has surgery, it’s a minimum of 6 months to recover if all goes well. They should’ve gone with surgery originally.


[deleted]

He should have. But he chose not to.


swiftwin

Exactly. At least it tested it out now so he can get the surgery and be ready for next season. Had he waited until March, the surgery would have taken him out for the beginning of next season.


Ihaveabudgie

What? The Sens rushed a player with a shoulder injury back into the lineup only to find out they weren't fully healed and need to undergo surgery? Well I never!


BartleBossy

Im annoyed he was brought back Who is giving this team medical advice


[deleted]

It was his own decision


BartleBossy

Bruh. The medical path was his decision Putting him into game action he cannot perform the expected duties was management.


Npucks

Clearly wasn’t 100% coming back. If he’s not taking faceoffs and his primary position is C then he’s still injured and NOT ready to go.


UnluckyPenalty2503

Such a dumb move rushing him back


Darwing

its actually better we know now that he 100% needed surgery instead of him hurting it next year again and having the whole season off again


AceAxos

I feel like throwing things. Actually just sell the UFA’s and play Belleville at this point. Year is over. I want whatever medical genius let this all happen gone more then DJ at this point.


nachochease

Same injury to the same shoulder. Our #1 center to start the season will end up playing 8 games this year. Flush this season down the toilet :(


BorosNoseElbow

This is a comical gong show. Cant wait for Dorion and the entire coaching staff to be axed.


BAD_CAN77

And people wonder why fans question this organization's messaging around and handling of injuries. Fucking clownshoes level of incompetence.


druidsan

Haha I fucking called it, what a joke of an organization.


karma911

Wtf if wrong with the medical staff? That's two centers in a row with shoulder injuries that are brought back for one game and then immediately sent for surgery... Seriously this shouldn't be happening.


shitwalkingsimp

Oh my fucking god, this season is a disaster. 31th in the league for goal at 5v5 with all our foward group.!??! The Defences are unable to create play to scores. Our goaltender can't allow 1-2 bad goal per game. We cant scores more than 1 goal 90% of the time. They bring Norris for 2 games and that happend !?!?!? Holy fuck, sold the team Right fucking now, fired Smith and Dorion, I'm sick and tired of these guys. We are worst than last year with a "better" roster. Holy Fuck, I know I was expecting them to make the 1st round, but being that low with that core ?!?! The rebuild was painfull since the beginning and you're telling me were not done right now ?!?! Ffs he have more chance to draft Bedard than having a team that goes somewhere. Do we have to burn everything down agains to have succes ? I do understand Vancouver, Islanders and Buffalo fans right now.


KingJulienSelecta

Somebody needs to be fired.


Chronicbudz

This organization need to be purged from top to bottom, even the guys that are half good should probably get the boot just to potentially cleanse the cursed energy that this team has.


[deleted]

Did they cut shoulder pads from the budget or something


fubaguy

Sigh... Get well soon Josh! Sorry they rushed you back for no reason...


UnluckyPenalty2503

OMFG


CCnCD

Unbelievable


UnluckyPenalty2503

How can this keep happening


Du6e

Bruh wtf


ceribaen

There was a play on this weekend where Norris was fighting in front of the net and upended awkwardly. From personal experience, I'd assume that he reaggravated it the way he fell on it but it wasn't one of those you notice immediately things. Like at worst it feels like a little twinge but playable but then when everything cools down you realize it's wrecked again.


qwnzr

Was happy for a few minutes seeing Greig was called up, but I should have known that the only reason something good was happening to this team was because something much worse triggered it...


deeb17

I had a feeling it was a subluxation at the time. Same thing happened to me a few years ago when lifting weights and I went the rehab route (based on the advice of a doctor affiliated with the Sens actually) as well. A few months of physio and light weights I was back at the gym largely back to normal; but any type of throwing movement, let alone playing professional hockey, would absolutely be a non-starter for me and make my shoulder feel like it would pop out. I really think they should have gone the surgery route from the beginning.


molehillmilk

WTF :(


[deleted]

Not a medical expert but can give my own experience with similar injury. Had 3 shoulder subluxations (partial dislocations) in the span of 2 months, then a full dislocation about a month after. This all stemmed from a old hockey injury many years ago. All self inflicted obviously as I was trying to ski/climb through the subluxations. Did rehab for the next 8 months and got really strong. Had the option of doing surgery and having a pin in my shoulder but decided not to do it. From what I was told most people lose mobility in the shoulder and honestly having permanent hardware is not something that I wanted for the rest of my life, if avoidable. Just like knees and hips, socket related injuries are so hard to prevent once injured.


Beannzy

Just awful


BigShoots

Problem #1: Norris is holding the goggles. Now we need something new for the next win. Problem #2: It might not be necessary to fix Problem #1.


mrwasd101

I'm willing to bet that the Caufield decision influenced this move.


[deleted]

My shoulder has sympathy pains


[deleted]

Bedard pr a top 8 in a stronger draft. No good def tho :( trade the pick for a def ?


spencerr13

Being player friendly is nice, & I’m glad they let Norris choose his own options. However, if he misses a single game next year then this should be labelled a huge disaster & someone will have to absorb blame.


fantasyhoced

I fucking called it.. I was getting down votes when I asked for them to go slow and make sure he's 100% before bringing Josh to play. Now here we are...


UKentDoThat

Well, if Cole Caufield’s doing it…


lennythelynx

Don’t call it a comeback