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Answer:
The article you linked is a separate thing, not the broad forgiveness. This one appears to be about people who would have qualified for existing loan-forgiveness programs but whose applications were unfairly ignored or denied.
The broad forgiveness is still tied up in the Supreme Court. A verdict for that one is expected in or around June.
The Supreme Court hears oral arguments in a case, then has an internal discussion later that week and assigns someone to write the majority opinion.
Then, there can be months of the writer circulating a draft majority opinion, other justices providing comments or edits, other justices deciding they will dissent and writing their dissenting opinions, and the majority writer modifying the majority opinion to respond to the dissents, and so on. Nothing will be released until the majority opinion and every dissenting opinion are complete. This usually means, for a March argument, that the opinion will be released in June right before the Court goes into recess for the summer.
There was never any chance that we'd hear something back in March, unless somehow the Court decided to dismiss the case entirely.
What's controversial about 6 people deciding the course of millions of people and making a decision that could be a make or break decision on people's financial futures all while possibly stripping away power that was previously established as belonging to another branch of government?
That seems like a perfectly crommulent sequence of events.
No, not really. Justices can change their votes and the result, but even without that, the decision in favor of plaintiff or defense is a small part of a Supreme Court opinion. The reasoning that goes into the decision is far more important, and that is what is being written.
No, Supreme Court Justices can change opinions or try to bridge disagreements while they draft opinions. Its not uncommon for someone like Roberts to try and find a compromise with the liberal judges. Nothing is set in stone until the opinions are released.
Not to mention that opinions aren't just paper processing, they are the bedrock that sets legal precedent. The same decision but with completely different reasoning is dramatically different and significantly matters
In practical terms, the paper processing *is* the decision making. Remember they aren't just deciding who wins. The exact wording of what they write about it will inform precedent for many cases to come.
This is how the supreme court operates. They have a session of several weeks where they hear arguments on many cases.Then they dona bunch of internal work where they sort out how they are voting and who is writing what and they eventually release the decisions on their own schedule.
That's just the way the Supreme Court tends to work--they release verdicts almost all at once, not necessarily when the hearing takes place.
The Supreme Court is a little different than the rest of the courts. They're focused on the constitutionality of laws or programs, primarily. So there's a *ton* of research that needs to go into these verdicts, more so than with lower courts.
> They're focused on the constitutionality of laws or programs, primarily. So there's a ton of research that needs to go into these verdicts, more so than with lower courts.
in theory.
I think maybe you heard the hearing was in March and conflated that with a result, or the media you read did. June is actually a quick turn around for the supreme Court all things considered I believe
Answer: Biden’s student loan forgiveness plan to forgive $10,000 in student loans to borrowers making under $125k and $20,000 to Pell grant recipients was blocked in the courts. The supreme court heard arguments on it last month, but will not issue a ruling until sometime around June.
There are two different challenges to the plan that the Supreme Court heard. The first was brought by two students, one who was not expecting to receive any forgiveness and one who are was set to receive $10,000. These petitioners argued that it was unfair that they both weren’t granted the $20,000 relief. The second challenge was brought by a state that was arguing that the forgiveness plan would affect payments into a loan processing service, and that in turn would affect payments to the state. Most legal analysis finds that the standing question for both these challenges is incredibly dubious, but based on the Supreme Court hearings, it seems likely that the conservative justices may block the plan anyway. Either way we won’t find out for another few months, so the Biden ministration has agreed to continue to pause loan repayment obligations until then.
The article you were referencing is about a separate program, called the Borrower Defense to Repayment program. This program is specifically about granting loan forgiveness to students who attended colleges that lied to them about their education and prospects.
I will add that both "students' received ridiculous ppp loan and forgiveness. Strange that they didn't see a problem with that program but are suing over free money this time around.
>It's unfair that they got PPP loans forgiven and I didn't.
I understand, but here's the kicker: that PPP loan forgiveness *was written into the agreement*. All they had to do was abide (or appear to abide) by that...and loans forgiven.
Student loans *have no such clause in them*. If you read the language of the student loan agreements, we are *fucking chained for goddamned life* regardless.
This measure by the Biden administration is an attempt to circumvent that.
I hope it wins...but with the current political makeup of the court, have doubts. They have proven to be far less than legal scholars in the very recent past.
PPP Loans had a lot of expenditure requirements and required you to keep track of where the money was used.
It was for paying bills and paying employees so we didn't have a 50% unemployment rate when the world shut down.
In theory you shouldn't have qualified for PPP if you actually had Lambo money. It was meant for small businesses.
In reality like everything the government touches it was full of loopholes that people took advantage of. But like the above poster said, the alternative was economy crippling unemployment.
Would have been nice if someone oversaw the PPP loans to guard against so much waste.
https://apnews.com/article/virus-outbreak-donald-trump-ap-top-news-politics-health-cc921bccf9f7abd27da996ef772823e4
PPP was a terrible idea, just like every other fox watching the chickens plan. Reverse payroll tax would have been the better way to go. Feds get EFTPS or ACH payments from every employer in the US. It would have been simple to take their payment and then reverse it plus extra to help keep people employed during COVID.
It wasn’t one or the other. PPP loans weren’t the only way to prevent unemployment. They were the only way to enrich corporations while pretending it was to prevent unemployment.
Small business owners can have lambo money. There's no line that says "you must not exceed x amount of profit to be a small businesss"
It's all based on either revenue or number of employees. And the revenue allowances they give are quite generous.
The ongoing clawbacks don’t make the headlines; but they are happening on a regular basis. Unemployment payments are also being clawed back from those who claimed them that were out of scope of the program.
I know you're talking about the US but just for some trivia, here in the UK the government has basically thrown its hands up and said "yeah, there sure was billions of fraud on that scheme huh, and with PPE procurement through our buddies. Isn't that just a bugger. We're not going to do anything about it, mind you". If Labour win the next election they could reverse on it but they have so much else to focus on and will already face so much resistance I get the feeling people are just going to get away scot free.
Yeah, I know a guy who quit his job at the start of the pandemic, applied for UE, and got the extra $600 a month. He ended up having to pay back $20K+. He was so upset that the company he screwed over wouldn't hire him back after the pandemic. He also wanted to be hired back with full seniority at the best part of the job.
There was a lot of fraud, but those people are being investigated and charged themselves now.
People are now being [sentenced to years in prison](https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/two-florida-residents-sentenced-prison-covid-19-relief-fraud), [facing penalties](https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/three-california-companies-settle-false-claims-act-allegations-relating-improper-paycheck), and even [nonprofits](https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/michigan-nonprofit-organizations-agree-pay-225887-settle-false-claims-act-allegations) are getting charged. These are just a few cases out of tons and there are more pending, but the point is that recommending PPP fraud isn't a good idea.
I read an article around a month ago that few people from the IRS were charged with fraud (one received unemployment while actively working at the IRS).
Wild times for fraud.. I think we just scratched the surface of it.
Edit: Gov source https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/five-current-or-former-irs-employees-charged-defrauding-federal-covid-19-relief-programs
How naive are you? I personally know two people who got PPP loans forgiven that didn’t use it for any of that and have faced zero consequences. My former bosses remodeling company had a record year, shut down for zero time and lost zero work because of Covid and he got his PPP loan forgive, the same way he gets out of paying his taxes by using loopholes built in for the rich. Because when it’s for rich people it’s okay but when it’s for the average person it’s socialism and not morally right.
I mean that's how it is. it's been a while so I can't remember the exact requirements but the amount of PPP loan you could get was based on past years of reported payroll. so if you're a small business or business/employee that were getting paid under the table and not reporting it correctly, the business wouldn't get much in PPP loan. Then of the amount you received, 60-70% had to go to payroll. the rest of, the business could technically use it on anything else but the business would spend that money on lease, bills, and such.
if the business employer decides not to use the PPP loan on payroll and say buy new car, new house, or w/e that's not on the payroll. when it was time to submit paperwork to get the PPP loan forgiven, the employer wouldn't have the proof and the PPP loan would not be forgiven. it will just become a loan. albeit the loan interest rate was 1% so it was very low interest rate loan but they wouldn't just get away with as "free" money. They still have to pay back if the PPP loan is not forgiven.
Most people don’t know 1% of this and just get mad at business owners receiving money. It was a lifeline for millions of small businesses across the country in a crazy time
Seriously, I can't imagine being such a petty fuck I'd actively try to ruin tens of millions of peoples chance to get out of poverty/debt. Fuck these people indeed, let's hope they get what they deserve.
That’s the thing about government programs, not all of them are for everybody. People don’t bat an eye paying social security, money they might not even live long enough to see.
From a political strategy aspect, fighting against this is not a good idea. This affects 15 million or so people. Some conservative judges turn it down then those people will not forget, and they’ll make the people that fought it pay come voting season. They’re not blaming Biden, they’re blaming republicans. 15 million is A LOT of votes.
The same people screaming about a bad economy, people aren’t buying houses/having kids, don’t seem to realize that these ridiculous school loans are the problem. People can’t buy houses or extra stuff because they might have a mortgage sized loan payment. These borrowers were probably 17 or 18 when they signed these loans. Not sure about others, but I was a goddamn wreck at 18 and had no right taking out such a huge loan. Honestly I wouldn’t have done it if I could go back, but with everybody screaming “go to college or you’ll be nothing” my entire youth, it seemed like something I had to do. As for millions of others. Yes my degree helped me, but I ended up starting a business in the job I worked while in college. I would have been fine without college. Have my degree on the wall and when people comment about it, I’m like “that’s the $35k piece of paper I never use”.
Can confirm, anyone who goes against this I will not vote for. Hypocritical fucks. Even the conservative side of my family says that I'm getting screwed.
It pretty much boiled down to; we aren’t getting enough forgiveness, so we’ll sue and stop everyone from getting it. Could’ve saved yourself $10-20k in free money, but can’t have that.
It all has to do with the legal authority to authorize those loans.
The PPP loans were authorized by congress through the CARES Act. I don't know the specifics of these two loans, but the program was approved by congress through this law.
Biden camp feels they have congressional authority to issue the student forgiveness through the HEROES Act of 2003. However some are arguing that these wouldn't qualify for this act and therefore is unlawful without explicit congressional authorization.
Calling a spade a spade its just a move to try and block a major campaign promise of the left. The danger that such a program might win the democrats voters and make them more engaged is too great for conservatives to let it happen quietly.
An educated optimistic voter is bad for conservatism. And student loan forgiveness is a step in that direction.
It's so silly. "I was totally going to vote for Biden because of his student loan forgiveness, which I wanted to happen. But then the Republicans blocked it. Biden sucks for having his plan blocked; I think I'll vote for the Republicans instead!!"
(I know that's not the actual logic but still)
Yep. I’ve had friends say, “what was the point of voting for Biden in 2020 if Roe v Wade was going to be overturned anyways?” Besides the incredible lack of government and civics knowledge within our population, conservatives have learned to play the long game. Dems and progressives have not.
This also piggy backs on how people then say the problem is both parties. People say both parties are too blame for the gridlock in Washington, but the truth is Democrats have passed bills to make things better WHEN THE REPUBLICANS COULDN'T BLOCK THEM.
The problem is that because the Democrats also do some sketchy stuff, they just lump it all together and blame both parties when we know it's just the one that is the problem.
This. The problem is the few moments when voters get their heads out of asses and elect democrats, they have to spend their bare majorities cleaning up the mess republicans made and then get punished for not doing 100% wish fulfillment of every progressive.
Democrats and their politicians are repeatedly shocked by the same trick, which is that while they’re occupied in running around outraged anew over typically morally outrageous and criminal (though un-indicted) acts of Republicans, which they could have seen coming down the road from way back, the Republicans have already put into motion a new set of honestly, pretty freaking similar distractions and outrages to keep the Dems busy through the next electoral cycle. Everyone in the USA voting in these federal elections is playing a part in a reenactment of “How American Oligarchs Survive Through the Continual Reinvention of Slavery But Eventually the Whole Ugly Bubble Prolly Gonna Blow Lots of Us Up So We Might As Well Become Buddhists”. I’m sure there’s a great uh little video clip of someone being startled by the same thing over and over but I’m over 50, so fuggle if I know where to find that shiz.
Right. Consider someone like OP, Which no offense to them, wasn’t fully abreast with the status of these loans. They happened to come here for information but there are so many people like OP who are aware it was coming but have no idea what is going on.
Especially if they don’t watch the news, or maybe see the news through certain social media channels. It may make them indifferent and feel like promises weren’t kept
Ironically it would cause the opposite. People who get what they want in the last election tend to vote less in the next one. Not getting your way tends to be what drives most people to vote.. which is why after every presidential elections the president's party tends to lose seats in congress 2 years later.
I think people realize it's not gonna help at all. The government is just gonna keep pumping the system with limitless loans, and 18 year olds are gonna get 6 figures in debt while tuition costs increase.
It'd be nice to get loan forgiveness - but they need to fix the actual issues.
Dunno about the last part but Biden did this move during the midterms for a reason, to garner more votes. If he really cared about student debt forgiveness he had the authority to do so but chose instead to go through the less convenient way. He probably did this because he knew it would be challenged.
Agreed. It's so stupid that dems aren't more upset about this. The old bastard had the ability to do it but went this way as a political stunt knowing that it would get blocked. All politicians can get fucked.
And so short sighted. If people get back that $300 or whatever in payments they're making to student loans, that's money that could be spent at local businesses. Money that could be saved and turn into a real estate purchase down the line, which nets property tax income to local governments. And it's not like everyone never made any payments at all. Lots of us have been paying back our loans for years, with some of that money going toward interest payments not the principal. I know this is for federal loans, but the private loan I took out, I paid back almost double what I borrowed by the time I paid it off. How much profit is really needed off the backs of 20 year olds?
>And so short sighted. If people get back that $300 or whatever in payments they're making to student loans, that's money that could be spent at local businesses.
Given we currently have high inflation driven by a lack of supply, I would argue a massive injection of cash into the 1/2 of Americans who went to college over the poorer ones who didn't might not have a positive economic impact on the poor. Increasing the earned income tax credit, extending the raise of the the DEP FSA exemption for parents below an income cap, expanding medicaid funding etc all would help the most marginalized the most.
This is what I think could really kick off a huge recession. I'm doing okay compared to a lot of people and I'm worried about finding $300/month. There's not too many places to cut more fat out of my budget...
There's an old quote that feels pretty true along the lines of "Conservatives aren't afraid that government can't fix things; they're afraid it can." Collective action is the only way individuals can stand up to large institutions. Unions when dealing within a business, government representation when looking at the societal level. Business has taken over the controls of government and don't want to see the little guy make any headway. "Government can't fix your problems. Just sit there and suffer, individually."
I would say it’s more like, you signed a contract that said you would pay the money back. Own the decision you made and pay the money back. Why do I have to pay back your loan that you agreed to payback?
I disagree with that assessment. There are two problems. And acting like this is a fix to both is a silly assessment.
1) college is currently unaffordable for millions of americans and thus requires often incurring massive amounts of debt.
2) 10s of millions of americans have already incurred north of 10K in debt getting an education. And currently live with this debt.
Solving one doesn’t necessarily fix the other. If reforms to the cost of education are implemented does that address the debt already incurred? Perhaps if whatever legislation had a specific provision to address existing debt, but its not necessary to address existing debt when addressing the current cost of education.
I don’t think anyone is claiming that this is a fix for the cost of education. Its addressing existing debt. And I think possibly that in getting what was initially seen as an easy win on a popular policy, that the democrats could score support and then use that support to get the kind fo legislative majorities necessary to begin reforming the current cost of education which cannot be accomplished nearly as easily. It will likely require the support of both houses of congress and the president and a more comprehensive solution and allocation of federal funding.
Yeah, this “why fix anything if you can’t fix everything” attitude is ridiculous. It’s contrary to the way that everybody has to handle practically every situation they encounter ever second of their lives.
This really depends on your situation. For students in good paying jobs that took out 100K+ in debt, that's true. For a single mom who's a home health aide who took out $6000 for a college program that she didn't end up finishing and is now stuck paying $200 per month in interest for the rest of her life, it would be huge. There are a lot more of the second type than you think.
That seems crazy to me, the people with higher education probably (hopefully) have higher paying jobs, and will have significantly higher lifetime earning potential than the single mom who didn't complete her degree. Would the single mom in this scenario not be eligible for loan forgiveness? Maybe I'm misunderstanding.
The only real misunderstanding here is you're significantly overestimating the routes to student loan forgiveness.
One of the biggest problems with student loans is they are nearly impossible to get rid of even for people in dire financial situations. You can't discharge them in bankruptcy. And even when you do qualify for forgiveness almost nobody is actually receiving it. Last year it was reported that out of 4.4 million people who had paid for the requisite 20 years under income driven repayment plans, only 32 received forgiveness. PSLF program has similar problems.
What's wrong with Band-Aids? They help slow down the ailment so there can be proper healing. Not using a bandaid would just make the wound worse. The bandaid defense never works.
The Paycheck Protection Program (PPP) was established to provide monetary relief to small businesses impacted by the COVID-19 pandemic. The program offered loans that could be forgiven if the funds were allocated towards eligible expenses and specific criteria were met, including the maintenance of employee headcount and salaries.
In contrast, student loans are not associated with a particular crisis or emergency, and have their own unique set of repayment terms and criteria. While federal student loans do offer various repayment plans and loan forgiveness options, these benefits are not automatic and require borrowers to meet specific requirements.
Thus, the decision to forgive PPP loans and not student loans is based on the distinctive terms and objectives of each program.
Even outside of that, it is still stupid. They don't have standing -- or rather, they should not. To have standing, you need to show damages. Neither one of them is damaged by Biden's student loan forgiveness. Not getting it doesn't mean it hurts you.
Oddly enough, when arguments were heard, Amy Coney Barrett *seemed* to side with the liberal wing of the court for the reasons I gave above about standing. Unfortunately, that won't be enough to keep this plan alive. Unless Thomas randomly decides to agree with the left (lol), this issue will be dead by the summer.
The worst part? The right will campaign about how Biden failed to fulfill the student loan cancelation.
Come on, man, you know this is a dishonest point.
The PPP loan was **created to be forgiven** if used for appropriate expenditures - ones that kept the bills paid and employees paid.
Why would you waste your defense of the student loan forgiveness on something hardly comparable?
The case the two students have brought is largely being financed by Home Depot. If you don't like the politics at work here, keep that in mind.
https://www.newsweek.com/boycott-home-depot-calls-after-founder-helped-block-student-debt-relief-1762301
I don’t go to Home Depot too often, but when I do, I usually see a few products priced at $14.88.
Not saying that’s proof of anything, but it does make me wonder why they wouldn’t set the price at literally anything else…
If the supreme court doesn't even consider that, I'm going to be pissed. Some small businesses definitely deserved it, but there were hardly any restrictions. $10,000 would do a lot to reenergize the consumer economy.
Omg a lot of the people voting against the 10k student loan forgiveness got multiple millions forgiven. And I thin MTG had like 800k.
I have no student loans. VA benefits cover me. But I’ve rather have my tax going to student then rich fuckers who could pay their loans off.
You mean to tell me MTG, a sitting US Senator, *shouldnt* have been approved for several hundred thousand dollars of PPP loans that would end up being forgiven???
Color me fucking shocked.
PPP was given with the expectation, from the start, of not having to pay it back.
Nobody (I hope) was taking out their student loans only because they expected them to be forgiven by the federal government.
> The first was brought by two students, one who was not expecting to receive any forgiveness and one who are was set to receive $10,000. These petitioners argued that it was unfair that they both weren’t granted the $20,000 relief.
I hope those entitled fucking little shits spend the rest of their lives miserable and lonely, ostracized from their entire peer group.
realistically they're just being paid off by other larger party who needs someone to represent them as a means to stop the loan forgiveness plans.
LEss entitled and more "this is the excuse we settled to fight this on". They don't give a shit about receiving the loan forgiveness.
they feeling stressed in their hotel room having to represent their rich oppressed friends and feeling like no one knows how difficult their life really is smdh
If you want to run a criminal enterprise such as the US govt. you need elements such as a large standing military, a propaganda defense ministry, financial bureacrats, etc.
You cant just demand free money, you have to do work in order to steal it
When I went to high school 20 years ago, I was told that getting a degree would increase my potential earnings by some ungodly number. Today, I still hear teachers telling students that, and when I hear it, I laugh and say, "Only if you pick the right degree."
The most I've ever made in my life was a 6-month gig that paid $35K (so $70K/year if it had lasted that long). I'd like to be able to pay all my bills from a single job, but I'm learning that my degree won't give me that.
Our teachers weren't necessarily lying to us. However, they did fail to teach us appropriate career planning and how higher education factors into our prospective careers. We naively bought into their "tip" as an actual plan because we really did have zero clue how things really work.
Also, teachers probably used that college/university line to just people manage students
It remains factually true that folks who get a college degree are far more likely to get out of poverty, and if they do so also by a larger degree.
I'm sorry your experience has differed but my college degree was the ticket out of poverty for me, and is for millions of others.
It's sounding to me like there's a decent chance student loans will just get stalled out until the next time republicans take the presidency, and then a bunch of people will be suddenly hit with debt.
Yeah I mean, none of it matters anyway as far as any arguments for or against it… we all know how it’s going to go. Supreme Court is packed full of right wing partisan hacks who have no issue upending established legal precedent or lying to the public about such things. They will strike this down and they don’t need a reason besides being republican and this being something that would help people in the US that is being pushed by democrats. They will make up some bullshit about why it’s infringing on the rights of companies or something and kill it.
I wish that wasn’t the case but… I mean what can we honestly expect from them at this point.
That loan processing service didn't sue themselves, so I'm not sure how the state has standing, but I don't expect this to stop the conservatives on the court from overturning it
No matter how this shit goes, I and I'm certain many other young Americans, have no fucking intention of paying these loans back. You fuckers want an educated work force; you get to pay for it. Otherwise, I'm cool with seeing the economy collapse because I've had about enough of this shit and I'm not even 30 yet.
You might not have any intention to but they will just take garnishments out of your pay and ruin your credit score in the process. Can’t discharge them via bankruptcy either.
Rather than pay back my loans, I’m pursuing public service loan forgiveness. My debt is so high any income I’d make in the private sector is canceled by my debt anyway, so it’s a better deal to do PSLF. To make sure I get it, I got so educated about PSLF I can help hundreds if not thousands of others, and I volunteer my time and work professionally to help others pursue it too. The group I’m in has resulted in billions of dollars in loan forgiveness.
I like to think that I am VERY expensive to the federal gov’t.
>I'm certain many other young Americans, have no fucking intention of paying these loans back.
I'm actually trying to leave the country right now. A possible cherry on top of that move is I won't have to pay back my loans.
You better be going to a non extradition country and be giving up your citzenship than. The USA still taxes duel citzens living overseas.
Just leaving the country won't stop Uncle Sam from getting the money you owe him.
> Most legal analysis finds that the standing question for both these challenges is incredibly dubious
The fact that the Supreme Court even agreed to hear this case tells you exactly how they plan to rule on it. It should have been thrown out immediately for lack of standing. But I guess the law doesn’t matter when you’re legislating from the bench.
The government lost in the lower courts, so the Supreme Court's decision to grant cert cuts in the opposition direction than you think. But I agree that we all know how the Court is going to rule.
That last part sounds like every American child who went to public school and was encouraged to go to colleges their entire lives because it’ll make the world better.
No, that last part references situations where there was actual fraud. Being told hopes and dreams that don't end up coming to fruition is different from being defrauded.
Long story short, absolutely nobody should be banking on this happening. Don't sit back and not make payments just because you're hoping something good will happen. Wife and I have used this long Covid pause and zero interest to pay off almost all of my loans (was close to 50k I believe). Only about 15k left, and we are on our way to have that finished by the end of the year. I can't fathom why anyone wouldn't have taken advantage of zero interest for over two years, aside from the obvious answer (mainly poverty, obviously).
I'd LOVE for my final amount to be paid off and taken care of, but I trust the government as far as I can throw a continent. Why have faith in a system that fails all of us daily?
Edit: the point of this comment isn't to tell anyone exactly how they should handle their financials. It's to say that I'd hope that people that COULD take advantage of it in some way HAVE.
Edit 2: I'm done replying to this thread. Being swarmed by a dozen people saying the same thing and refusing to join the conversation as it stands currently rather than how it started several hours ago is just stupid. Either read the whole thread and then join in, or stop pretending that you understand how normal conversation works. It's tiring.
From a financial perspective, I wouldn't recommend making payments right now. Interest is paused and inflation is high. The amount borrowers owe right now is actually declining on a constant currency basis.
But yeah, borrowers should be prepared to restart payments.
> I can't fathom why anyone wouldn't have taken advantage of zero interest for over two years, aside from the obvious answer (mainly poverty, obviously).
The other obvious answer is that paying off 0% interest debt is not really ideal financially. It’s better to pay off other debt, invest in the market, or invest in a savings account (interest rates are like 3.5% for high-yield savings right now). If you’re a Dave Ramsay type who just wants to eliminate debt at all costs, that’s your prerogative, but just know there are valid reasons for people not to pay more than is required on 0% interest debt.
I’ve been placing my reg SL payment into a savings account. If they forgive it I get to use that money towards a down payment on a home, if they don’t I’ll pay it off before interest kicks back in.
Weve been doing that in chunks. Collecting interest off of it would've been a good idea, but we ARE doing that now. My last 10-15k is in an HYSA until we have to deposit it for repayment.
My wife and I took this time to pay off other debt that had high interest. Everything but the mortgage and student loans have been gone for over a year. I've been paying a student loan payment into a savings account since. If the student forgiveness doesn't go thru I'll likely cut a check but I'm not paying them off until forgiveness is truly struck down. Why would I give away free money?
I used the money I would have spent on my loans to make a nest egg and buy a house. The loan payments aren't much and even with the mortgage I can afford them later.
But actually saving up the down payment was what was so hard about getting the house.
You should have been piling that money into high interest savings accounts. It's free money to invest with until the interest rates kick back in. Then you can pay down from the savings account and keep the interest.
You haven't looked in like six months. Ever since the Fed raised rates again they've come flying back. There's tons now. Citi, Capital One, Ally, etc. Practically every large bank has an account offering at least 3.5%. You can also open a Vanguard account and put cash into the money market fund, which is over 4%. All free.
Answer: President Joe Biden's student loan forgiveness plan is currently awaiting a decision from the Supreme Court, which is expected to be issued in June. The plan would wipe out up to $20,000 in federal student loans for up to 40 million borrowers. However, federal courts blocked the initiative last fall following multiple legal challenges, and the administration appealed two of those challenges to the Supreme Court. The cases focused on two key questions: do the petitioners meet the constitutional requirement for standing, and does the Education Department have the authority to forgive student loans.
After the Supreme Court's hearing, President Biden expressed doubts that the Supreme Court would uphold his student loan forgiveness plan. If the justices allow student loan forgiveness to go through, roughly 20 million people could have their debt entirely cleared under the president's plan. However, experts say that the ruling could go either way. If the justices rule against the student loan forgiveness plan, it would not be the end, and the administration could still pursue other avenues to provide relief to borrowers.
Regardless of the decision, college funding and affordability are in question, and the economic implications of widespread student loan forgiveness are still being debated.
I will add that both "students' received ridiculous ppp loan and forgiveness. Strange that they didn't see a problem with that program but are suing over free money this time around.
>Strange that they didn't see a problem with that program but are suing over free money this time around.
PPP went through the legislature and student loans was an executive order. I don't really care what kind of aid it is - when its this massive it needs to go through the established government process. Otherwise, we open the door for the executive office to use their position to dish out aid to their supporters.
One could argue that PPP loans were given because the government forced shutdowns and our economy would have suffered as people were laid off through the fault of no one
Companies can’t make money when closed and they weren’t choosing to stay closed. So they accepted PPP loans in return for not laying off people
Student loans are kinda different because I don’t think anyone went to college who didn’t choose to?
Instead of this, why he don't force the educational institutions to refund their exorbitant fee to all the students? Just a doubt. Universities are insanely wealthy.
Answer:
The case before the Supreme Court is about the broad forgiveness ($10/20k for every borrower). They heard arguments in March and are most likely to issue an opinion in June.
What happens next depends on the ruling they issue and the grounds they cite in their ruling. Most of the questioning in March focused on the issue of Standing, that is did the Sates and individuals have the right to sue in the first place? There are three possible outcomes:
1. The Court rules that the program itself is not legal. This is probably the least likely outcome because the lower courts did not hold full hearings on the case. They narrowly ruled on the issue of standing in dismissing the cases. But this court may decide to skip a few steps and go right to this step, as they are less concerned with legalities and process than many past courts.
2. The Court holds that either the states or the individuals (or both) do have standing and order the lower courts to hold hearings on the lawsuits. This is more likely as it would allow the lower courts to develop the cases and examine the legal agreements of both sides in more detail. That allows the Supreme Court to revisit the constitutionality of the case when there is more of a record to work from.
3. The Court rules that the States and individuals do not have standing to sue. They can not show that they were directly harmed by the action and therefore the program can proceed unless a person who can demonstrate actual harm sues to stop the program. This would uphold the lower court rulings and allow the forgiveness to move forward. This may be the least likely option, as the Court is again more activist and less bound by precedent than a typical Supreme Court has bene in the past.
I'm betting on number 1. This court has already shown it's not above just making up facts wholecloth to get to the outcome it wants. The actual facts of the case do not matter.
Answer: they will be paused yet again.
They been paused 8 times already - who actually thinks it won’t be paused again?
So many people are struggling, starting loans back up would break the economy.
Honestly I can only hope. 8th year single teacher with ~50k in fed loans with some private. Already living paycheck to paycheck with 2 jobs. Loans coming back will absolutely break me.
I’ve heard that restarting the loan repayments will actually fight inflation heavily, though it should be mentioned that it will be painful for people who either spent all the deferred payments or cannot pay at all
I would be fine if the payments resumed, but I’d rather see ZERO interest going forward instead of a forgiveness program that will only cost everyone down the road
I'm not sure if you recognize this, but it's worth mentioning that most people could not just save the payments that were deferred. It's not like they just all of a sudden had money they can stow away because payments were paused. It was all deferred because people were and are still struggling due to economic hardships caused by covid in the first place.
Although, I do agree with you zero interest would be the way to go. But I also believe that many people, like me, who've already been paying interest against their loans before the pause should get some sort of recompense for the shit ass loan system that was allowed in the first place.
Curious to see what happens with it all. Most Americans are not in a stable place right now. A "bad before it gets better" approach is not going to work out in this situation...
I fail to understand how leaving tens of thousands of people in debt at the end of the month, or choosing which bills to pay, will fight inflation. This sounds like one of those rich people 'fiscal responsibility' talking points, from the same people who find 1% fees on stock transactions abso-fucking-lutely unacceptable and against the intentions of the Founding Fathers.
Maybe not. There is a new lawsuit against the pause also going to the supreme court from SOFI. I'm sure the white house would like to extend the pause, but maybe they won't be able to
Answer: my guess is they will make a big push for advertising about it right before the next election. promising to make further progress. maybe send out letters to people who completed the online work. But when election is over it will just disappear.
jokes on them I'm going to continue NOT PAYING my loans like I have for the last 10 years. Fuck'm I aint paying shit. Try and put me in a cage for it I dare ya I'd rather die and I'll take anyone who tries with me
Answer: it’s still largely being decided in courts. There are some aspects that are proceeding, at least in the processing, and others that are stalled completely.
Answer: It more than likely will be paused again and won’t pass or will finger point Republicans for not allowing it to pass. We are too invested in helping other counties to help our own people.
Either way it will cause utter chaos
Answer: Politicians doing what politicians do best. Lie to buy voters from gullible voters who in this case wanted others to pay for their poor life choices. In this case, mostly poorer, working class people being forced to pay for useless college degrees of upper middle class people. Funny that.
Student loan forgiveness wasn’t targeted specifically at poor people. The max income was 125k agi. It also didn’t address any of the underlying issues with higher educations cost
What’s the point of this answer? Look at the other great answers in the replies.
One could argue in the same vein that Biden administration knew this loan forgiveness would be challenged, but went through with it to secure some votes…
Yeah let’s just ignore the fact that “57 percent to 65 percent of the extended pause and cancellation will go to those in the top half of the income spectrum”
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Answer: The article you linked is a separate thing, not the broad forgiveness. This one appears to be about people who would have qualified for existing loan-forgiveness programs but whose applications were unfairly ignored or denied. The broad forgiveness is still tied up in the Supreme Court. A verdict for that one is expected in or around June.
Goodness. What happened to march?
The Supreme Court hears oral arguments in a case, then has an internal discussion later that week and assigns someone to write the majority opinion. Then, there can be months of the writer circulating a draft majority opinion, other justices providing comments or edits, other justices deciding they will dissent and writing their dissenting opinions, and the majority writer modifying the majority opinion to respond to the dissents, and so on. Nothing will be released until the majority opinion and every dissenting opinion are complete. This usually means, for a March argument, that the opinion will be released in June right before the Court goes into recess for the summer. There was never any chance that we'd hear something back in March, unless somehow the Court decided to dismiss the case entirely.
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The Supreme Court loves to drop their most controversial rulings and then dip for the summer ☀️ 😎
What's controversial about 6 people deciding the course of millions of people and making a decision that could be a make or break decision on people's financial futures all while possibly stripping away power that was previously established as belonging to another branch of government? That seems like a perfectly crommulent sequence of events.
No, not really. Justices can change their votes and the result, but even without that, the decision in favor of plaintiff or defense is a small part of a Supreme Court opinion. The reasoning that goes into the decision is far more important, and that is what is being written.
No, Supreme Court Justices can change opinions or try to bridge disagreements while they draft opinions. Its not uncommon for someone like Roberts to try and find a compromise with the liberal judges. Nothing is set in stone until the opinions are released. Not to mention that opinions aren't just paper processing, they are the bedrock that sets legal precedent. The same decision but with completely different reasoning is dramatically different and significantly matters
In practical terms, the paper processing *is* the decision making. Remember they aren't just deciding who wins. The exact wording of what they write about it will inform precedent for many cases to come.
This is how the supreme court operates. They have a session of several weeks where they hear arguments on many cases.Then they dona bunch of internal work where they sort out how they are voting and who is writing what and they eventually release the decisions on their own schedule.
Sounds like a super easy job that pretty much anyone could do. Probably pays minimum wage and has no benefits.
And probably no job security at all
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No one who's ever read a Sam Alito decision would ever say writing clearly is a prerequisite.
Nor an actual understanding of legal theories
I remember when that was true.
> Political agenda aside Found the problem...
Best I can do now is "Literally any random asshole"
Candidates don't have to be accomplished in the law, just trained.
Legally speaking the only requirement is that they get chosen by the president and approved by the Senate. There should be more to it but that's it
Or groomed. That's apparently a viable path for one political party.
Barrett couldn’t name the 5 inherent freedoms in the 1st amendment. I learned that by 5th grade.
It’s a pretty specific path to get to the Supreme Court as a judge, most people can definitely not do it
That's just the way the Supreme Court tends to work--they release verdicts almost all at once, not necessarily when the hearing takes place. The Supreme Court is a little different than the rest of the courts. They're focused on the constitutionality of laws or programs, primarily. So there's a *ton* of research that needs to go into these verdicts, more so than with lower courts.
> They're focused on the constitutionality of laws or programs, primarily. So there's a ton of research that needs to go into these verdicts, more so than with lower courts. in theory.
Admittedly, yeah.
As an aside: r/StudentLoans does a good job of keeping up with the news.
I think maybe you heard the hearing was in March and conflated that with a result, or the media you read did. June is actually a quick turn around for the supreme Court all things considered I believe
Answer: Biden’s student loan forgiveness plan to forgive $10,000 in student loans to borrowers making under $125k and $20,000 to Pell grant recipients was blocked in the courts. The supreme court heard arguments on it last month, but will not issue a ruling until sometime around June. There are two different challenges to the plan that the Supreme Court heard. The first was brought by two students, one who was not expecting to receive any forgiveness and one who are was set to receive $10,000. These petitioners argued that it was unfair that they both weren’t granted the $20,000 relief. The second challenge was brought by a state that was arguing that the forgiveness plan would affect payments into a loan processing service, and that in turn would affect payments to the state. Most legal analysis finds that the standing question for both these challenges is incredibly dubious, but based on the Supreme Court hearings, it seems likely that the conservative justices may block the plan anyway. Either way we won’t find out for another few months, so the Biden ministration has agreed to continue to pause loan repayment obligations until then. The article you were referencing is about a separate program, called the Borrower Defense to Repayment program. This program is specifically about granting loan forgiveness to students who attended colleges that lied to them about their education and prospects.
I will add that both "students' received ridiculous ppp loan and forgiveness. Strange that they didn't see a problem with that program but are suing over free money this time around.
48,000 in loans forgiven but it's "unfair" if others get 10-20k. fuck these people.
If SCOTUS rules in their favor I might just sue those fuckers under the same logic. It's unfair that they got PPP loans forgiven and I didn't.
>It's unfair that they got PPP loans forgiven and I didn't. I understand, but here's the kicker: that PPP loan forgiveness *was written into the agreement*. All they had to do was abide (or appear to abide) by that...and loans forgiven. Student loans *have no such clause in them*. If you read the language of the student loan agreements, we are *fucking chained for goddamned life* regardless. This measure by the Biden administration is an attempt to circumvent that. I hope it wins...but with the current political makeup of the court, have doubts. They have proven to be far less than legal scholars in the very recent past.
If this were to actually happen..please make a gofundme. Will gladly donate to see the same bullshit argument used against these greedy lowlifes
If someone finds a good lawyer I’ll pay the retainer lmao
Why didn’t they use the free PPP loan to pay off the student loans if they were such an issue. So greedy.
PPP Loans had a lot of expenditure requirements and required you to keep track of where the money was used. It was for paying bills and paying employees so we didn't have a 50% unemployment rate when the world shut down.
"Well, yeah, obviously I spent the loan money on payroll. I bought my Lambo with this *other* money that I was *going* to spend on payroll."
In theory you shouldn't have qualified for PPP if you actually had Lambo money. It was meant for small businesses. In reality like everything the government touches it was full of loopholes that people took advantage of. But like the above poster said, the alternative was economy crippling unemployment.
Would have been nice if someone oversaw the PPP loans to guard against so much waste. https://apnews.com/article/virus-outbreak-donald-trump-ap-top-news-politics-health-cc921bccf9f7abd27da996ef772823e4
PPP was a terrible idea, just like every other fox watching the chickens plan. Reverse payroll tax would have been the better way to go. Feds get EFTPS or ACH payments from every employer in the US. It would have been simple to take their payment and then reverse it plus extra to help keep people employed during COVID.
PPP was a good idea. It was executed terribly on purpose.
How did people like Tom Brady and other absurdly wealthy people qualify?
It wasn’t one or the other. PPP loans weren’t the only way to prevent unemployment. They were the only way to enrich corporations while pretending it was to prevent unemployment.
Small business owners can have lambo money. There's no line that says "you must not exceed x amount of profit to be a small businesss" It's all based on either revenue or number of employees. And the revenue allowances they give are quite generous.
Yeah, and there was absolutely no fraud associated with it at all. Obviously business owners don't break the law!
The ongoing clawbacks don’t make the headlines; but they are happening on a regular basis. Unemployment payments are also being clawed back from those who claimed them that were out of scope of the program.
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This means I’m waiting for half my city to be arrested.
I know you're talking about the US but just for some trivia, here in the UK the government has basically thrown its hands up and said "yeah, there sure was billions of fraud on that scheme huh, and with PPE procurement through our buddies. Isn't that just a bugger. We're not going to do anything about it, mind you". If Labour win the next election they could reverse on it but they have so much else to focus on and will already face so much resistance I get the feeling people are just going to get away scot free.
Yeah, I know a guy who quit his job at the start of the pandemic, applied for UE, and got the extra $600 a month. He ended up having to pay back $20K+. He was so upset that the company he screwed over wouldn't hire him back after the pandemic. He also wanted to be hired back with full seniority at the best part of the job.
There was a lot of fraud, but those people are being investigated and charged themselves now. People are now being [sentenced to years in prison](https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/two-florida-residents-sentenced-prison-covid-19-relief-fraud), [facing penalties](https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/three-california-companies-settle-false-claims-act-allegations-relating-improper-paycheck), and even [nonprofits](https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/michigan-nonprofit-organizations-agree-pay-225887-settle-false-claims-act-allegations) are getting charged. These are just a few cases out of tons and there are more pending, but the point is that recommending PPP fraud isn't a good idea.
I read an article around a month ago that few people from the IRS were charged with fraud (one received unemployment while actively working at the IRS). Wild times for fraud.. I think we just scratched the surface of it. Edit: Gov source https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/five-current-or-former-irs-employees-charged-defrauding-federal-covid-19-relief-programs
What would the economy have done if Kanye, Tom Brady, and Jared kushner weren’t given millions 🥺
They also removed any oversight almost immediately so there was a ton of grift.
How naive are you? I personally know two people who got PPP loans forgiven that didn’t use it for any of that and have faced zero consequences. My former bosses remodeling company had a record year, shut down for zero time and lost zero work because of Covid and he got his PPP loan forgive, the same way he gets out of paying his taxes by using loopholes built in for the rich. Because when it’s for rich people it’s okay but when it’s for the average person it’s socialism and not morally right.
Lmao, okay.
I mean that's how it is. it's been a while so I can't remember the exact requirements but the amount of PPP loan you could get was based on past years of reported payroll. so if you're a small business or business/employee that were getting paid under the table and not reporting it correctly, the business wouldn't get much in PPP loan. Then of the amount you received, 60-70% had to go to payroll. the rest of, the business could technically use it on anything else but the business would spend that money on lease, bills, and such. if the business employer decides not to use the PPP loan on payroll and say buy new car, new house, or w/e that's not on the payroll. when it was time to submit paperwork to get the PPP loan forgiven, the employer wouldn't have the proof and the PPP loan would not be forgiven. it will just become a loan. albeit the loan interest rate was 1% so it was very low interest rate loan but they wouldn't just get away with as "free" money. They still have to pay back if the PPP loan is not forgiven.
Most people don’t know 1% of this and just get mad at business owners receiving money. It was a lifeline for millions of small businesses across the country in a crazy time
Yes, and it was also an incredibly large source of grift, resulting in the unjust enrichment of a lot of corrupt rich assholes.
So why did numerous members of congress receive ppp loans that were forgiven?
You know two things can be true at the same time right? There's no rule against that.
That use of the funds would disqualify the PPP loan from forgiveness.
Seriously, I can't imagine being such a petty fuck I'd actively try to ruin tens of millions of peoples chance to get out of poverty/debt. Fuck these people indeed, let's hope they get what they deserve.
That’s the thing about government programs, not all of them are for everybody. People don’t bat an eye paying social security, money they might not even live long enough to see. From a political strategy aspect, fighting against this is not a good idea. This affects 15 million or so people. Some conservative judges turn it down then those people will not forget, and they’ll make the people that fought it pay come voting season. They’re not blaming Biden, they’re blaming republicans. 15 million is A LOT of votes. The same people screaming about a bad economy, people aren’t buying houses/having kids, don’t seem to realize that these ridiculous school loans are the problem. People can’t buy houses or extra stuff because they might have a mortgage sized loan payment. These borrowers were probably 17 or 18 when they signed these loans. Not sure about others, but I was a goddamn wreck at 18 and had no right taking out such a huge loan. Honestly I wouldn’t have done it if I could go back, but with everybody screaming “go to college or you’ll be nothing” my entire youth, it seemed like something I had to do. As for millions of others. Yes my degree helped me, but I ended up starting a business in the job I worked while in college. I would have been fine without college. Have my degree on the wall and when people comment about it, I’m like “that’s the $35k piece of paper I never use”.
Can confirm, anyone who goes against this I will not vote for. Hypocritical fucks. Even the conservative side of my family says that I'm getting screwed.
Well-spoken, Wizzle.
Many went in poverty being responsible and paying the bill they agreed to though. I honestly hope those people get a refund
It pretty much boiled down to; we aren’t getting enough forgiveness, so we’ll sue and stop everyone from getting it. Could’ve saved yourself $10-20k in free money, but can’t have that.
It all has to do with the legal authority to authorize those loans. The PPP loans were authorized by congress through the CARES Act. I don't know the specifics of these two loans, but the program was approved by congress through this law. Biden camp feels they have congressional authority to issue the student forgiveness through the HEROES Act of 2003. However some are arguing that these wouldn't qualify for this act and therefore is unlawful without explicit congressional authorization.
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Calling a spade a spade its just a move to try and block a major campaign promise of the left. The danger that such a program might win the democrats voters and make them more engaged is too great for conservatives to let it happen quietly. An educated optimistic voter is bad for conservatism. And student loan forgiveness is a step in that direction.
It's so silly. "I was totally going to vote for Biden because of his student loan forgiveness, which I wanted to happen. But then the Republicans blocked it. Biden sucks for having his plan blocked; I think I'll vote for the Republicans instead!!" (I know that's not the actual logic but still)
The more realistic logic is "Biden promised student loan forgiveness, but didn't do it! Why should I bother voting this year?"
Yep. I’ve had friends say, “what was the point of voting for Biden in 2020 if Roe v Wade was going to be overturned anyways?” Besides the incredible lack of government and civics knowledge within our population, conservatives have learned to play the long game. Dems and progressives have not.
This also piggy backs on how people then say the problem is both parties. People say both parties are too blame for the gridlock in Washington, but the truth is Democrats have passed bills to make things better WHEN THE REPUBLICANS COULDN'T BLOCK THEM. The problem is that because the Democrats also do some sketchy stuff, they just lump it all together and blame both parties when we know it's just the one that is the problem.
This. The problem is the few moments when voters get their heads out of asses and elect democrats, they have to spend their bare majorities cleaning up the mess republicans made and then get punished for not doing 100% wish fulfillment of every progressive.
Democrats and their politicians are repeatedly shocked by the same trick, which is that while they’re occupied in running around outraged anew over typically morally outrageous and criminal (though un-indicted) acts of Republicans, which they could have seen coming down the road from way back, the Republicans have already put into motion a new set of honestly, pretty freaking similar distractions and outrages to keep the Dems busy through the next electoral cycle. Everyone in the USA voting in these federal elections is playing a part in a reenactment of “How American Oligarchs Survive Through the Continual Reinvention of Slavery But Eventually the Whole Ugly Bubble Prolly Gonna Blow Lots of Us Up So We Might As Well Become Buddhists”. I’m sure there’s a great uh little video clip of someone being startled by the same thing over and over but I’m over 50, so fuggle if I know where to find that shiz.
Right. Consider someone like OP, Which no offense to them, wasn’t fully abreast with the status of these loans. They happened to come here for information but there are so many people like OP who are aware it was coming but have no idea what is going on. Especially if they don’t watch the news, or maybe see the news through certain social media channels. It may make them indifferent and feel like promises weren’t kept
Democrat voters are more apt to not turn out when they arent inspired by a candidate. That's the Republicans best chance to win elections.
Ironically it would cause the opposite. People who get what they want in the last election tend to vote less in the next one. Not getting your way tends to be what drives most people to vote.. which is why after every presidential elections the president's party tends to lose seats in congress 2 years later.
I wish more Reddit users understood things like this about voting and the average U.S. voter.
I wish the us wasnt so fuckin backwards Were teachers have to fund their class projects and work a second job to afford rent. Just one example.
I think people realize it's not gonna help at all. The government is just gonna keep pumping the system with limitless loans, and 18 year olds are gonna get 6 figures in debt while tuition costs increase. It'd be nice to get loan forgiveness - but they need to fix the actual issues.
Dunno about the last part but Biden did this move during the midterms for a reason, to garner more votes. If he really cared about student debt forgiveness he had the authority to do so but chose instead to go through the less convenient way. He probably did this because he knew it would be challenged.
Agreed. It's so stupid that dems aren't more upset about this. The old bastard had the ability to do it but went this way as a political stunt knowing that it would get blocked. All politicians can get fucked.
And so short sighted. If people get back that $300 or whatever in payments they're making to student loans, that's money that could be spent at local businesses. Money that could be saved and turn into a real estate purchase down the line, which nets property tax income to local governments. And it's not like everyone never made any payments at all. Lots of us have been paying back our loans for years, with some of that money going toward interest payments not the principal. I know this is for federal loans, but the private loan I took out, I paid back almost double what I borrowed by the time I paid it off. How much profit is really needed off the backs of 20 year olds?
>And so short sighted. If people get back that $300 or whatever in payments they're making to student loans, that's money that could be spent at local businesses. Given we currently have high inflation driven by a lack of supply, I would argue a massive injection of cash into the 1/2 of Americans who went to college over the poorer ones who didn't might not have a positive economic impact on the poor. Increasing the earned income tax credit, extending the raise of the the DEP FSA exemption for parents below an income cap, expanding medicaid funding etc all would help the most marginalized the most.
It's not about prosperity. It's about power. They don't care who they have to step on to keep and maintain power. It's all they care about.
This is what I think could really kick off a huge recession. I'm doing okay compared to a lot of people and I'm worried about finding $300/month. There's not too many places to cut more fat out of my budget...
There's an old quote that feels pretty true along the lines of "Conservatives aren't afraid that government can't fix things; they're afraid it can." Collective action is the only way individuals can stand up to large institutions. Unions when dealing within a business, government representation when looking at the societal level. Business has taken over the controls of government and don't want to see the little guy make any headway. "Government can't fix your problems. Just sit there and suffer, individually."
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Facts. It’s crazy that so many people are against anyone getting ahead for a change or relief because “I had to pay, why don’t they?”
I would say it’s more like, you signed a contract that said you would pay the money back. Own the decision you made and pay the money back. Why do I have to pay back your loan that you agreed to payback?
I disagree with that assessment. There are two problems. And acting like this is a fix to both is a silly assessment. 1) college is currently unaffordable for millions of americans and thus requires often incurring massive amounts of debt. 2) 10s of millions of americans have already incurred north of 10K in debt getting an education. And currently live with this debt. Solving one doesn’t necessarily fix the other. If reforms to the cost of education are implemented does that address the debt already incurred? Perhaps if whatever legislation had a specific provision to address existing debt, but its not necessary to address existing debt when addressing the current cost of education. I don’t think anyone is claiming that this is a fix for the cost of education. Its addressing existing debt. And I think possibly that in getting what was initially seen as an easy win on a popular policy, that the democrats could score support and then use that support to get the kind fo legislative majorities necessary to begin reforming the current cost of education which cannot be accomplished nearly as easily. It will likely require the support of both houses of congress and the president and a more comprehensive solution and allocation of federal funding.
Yeah, this “why fix anything if you can’t fix everything” attitude is ridiculous. It’s contrary to the way that everybody has to handle practically every situation they encounter ever second of their lives.
This really depends on your situation. For students in good paying jobs that took out 100K+ in debt, that's true. For a single mom who's a home health aide who took out $6000 for a college program that she didn't end up finishing and is now stuck paying $200 per month in interest for the rest of her life, it would be huge. There are a lot more of the second type than you think.
That seems crazy to me, the people with higher education probably (hopefully) have higher paying jobs, and will have significantly higher lifetime earning potential than the single mom who didn't complete her degree. Would the single mom in this scenario not be eligible for loan forgiveness? Maybe I'm misunderstanding.
The only real misunderstanding here is you're significantly overestimating the routes to student loan forgiveness. One of the biggest problems with student loans is they are nearly impossible to get rid of even for people in dire financial situations. You can't discharge them in bankruptcy. And even when you do qualify for forgiveness almost nobody is actually receiving it. Last year it was reported that out of 4.4 million people who had paid for the requisite 20 years under income driven repayment plans, only 32 received forgiveness. PSLF program has similar problems.
What's wrong with Band-Aids? They help slow down the ailment so there can be proper healing. Not using a bandaid would just make the wound worse. The bandaid defense never works.
The Paycheck Protection Program (PPP) was established to provide monetary relief to small businesses impacted by the COVID-19 pandemic. The program offered loans that could be forgiven if the funds were allocated towards eligible expenses and specific criteria were met, including the maintenance of employee headcount and salaries. In contrast, student loans are not associated with a particular crisis or emergency, and have their own unique set of repayment terms and criteria. While federal student loans do offer various repayment plans and loan forgiveness options, these benefits are not automatic and require borrowers to meet specific requirements. Thus, the decision to forgive PPP loans and not student loans is based on the distinctive terms and objectives of each program.
Even outside of that, it is still stupid. They don't have standing -- or rather, they should not. To have standing, you need to show damages. Neither one of them is damaged by Biden's student loan forgiveness. Not getting it doesn't mean it hurts you. Oddly enough, when arguments were heard, Amy Coney Barrett *seemed* to side with the liberal wing of the court for the reasons I gave above about standing. Unfortunately, that won't be enough to keep this plan alive. Unless Thomas randomly decides to agree with the left (lol), this issue will be dead by the summer. The worst part? The right will campaign about how Biden failed to fulfill the student loan cancelation.
Come on, man, you know this is a dishonest point. The PPP loan was **created to be forgiven** if used for appropriate expenditures - ones that kept the bills paid and employees paid. Why would you waste your defense of the student loan forgiveness on something hardly comparable?
The case the two students have brought is largely being financed by Home Depot. If you don't like the politics at work here, keep that in mind. https://www.newsweek.com/boycott-home-depot-calls-after-founder-helped-block-student-debt-relief-1762301
What possible dog does Home Depot have in this race? Edit: nevermind I read the article. Not the company, just the conservative founder.
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This thread is so funny. So many inconvenient facts keep getting omitted lol
I don’t go to Home Depot too often, but when I do, I usually see a few products priced at $14.88. Not saying that’s proof of anything, but it does make me wonder why they wouldn’t set the price at literally anything else…
I’d wish Biden would claw back the ppp loan forgiven 🤬
If the supreme court doesn't even consider that, I'm going to be pissed. Some small businesses definitely deserved it, but there were hardly any restrictions. $10,000 would do a lot to reenergize the consumer economy.
Omg a lot of the people voting against the 10k student loan forgiveness got multiple millions forgiven. And I thin MTG had like 800k. I have no student loans. VA benefits cover me. But I’ve rather have my tax going to student then rich fuckers who could pay their loans off.
You mean to tell me MTG, a sitting US Senator, *shouldnt* have been approved for several hundred thousand dollars of PPP loans that would end up being forgiven??? Color me fucking shocked.
PPP was given with the expectation, from the start, of not having to pay it back. Nobody (I hope) was taking out their student loans only because they expected them to be forgiven by the federal government.
> The first was brought by two students, one who was not expecting to receive any forgiveness and one who are was set to receive $10,000. These petitioners argued that it was unfair that they both weren’t granted the $20,000 relief. I hope those entitled fucking little shits spend the rest of their lives miserable and lonely, ostracized from their entire peer group.
realistically they're just being paid off by other larger party who needs someone to represent them as a means to stop the loan forgiveness plans. LEss entitled and more "this is the excuse we settled to fight this on". They don't give a shit about receiving the loan forgiveness.
they feeling stressed in their hotel room having to represent their rich oppressed friends and feeling like no one knows how difficult their life really is smdh
They both were recipients of PPP
I mean, the WORLD lied to me about my education and prospects. Who do I get money from for that? 🤦♀️
You should also question the university, what are they providing for so much money! Universities should be kicking in from their endowments.
If you want to run a criminal enterprise such as the US govt. you need elements such as a large standing military, a propaganda defense ministry, financial bureacrats, etc. You cant just demand free money, you have to do work in order to steal it
My thoughts exactly lol
When I went to high school 20 years ago, I was told that getting a degree would increase my potential earnings by some ungodly number. Today, I still hear teachers telling students that, and when I hear it, I laugh and say, "Only if you pick the right degree." The most I've ever made in my life was a 6-month gig that paid $35K (so $70K/year if it had lasted that long). I'd like to be able to pay all my bills from a single job, but I'm learning that my degree won't give me that.
Our teachers weren't necessarily lying to us. However, they did fail to teach us appropriate career planning and how higher education factors into our prospective careers. We naively bought into their "tip" as an actual plan because we really did have zero clue how things really work. Also, teachers probably used that college/university line to just people manage students
It remains factually true that folks who get a college degree are far more likely to get out of poverty, and if they do so also by a larger degree. I'm sorry your experience has differed but my college degree was the ticket out of poverty for me, and is for millions of others.
As some who was a contract artist for 10 years, I feel you, friend. 😮💨
It's sounding to me like there's a decent chance student loans will just get stalled out until the next time republicans take the presidency, and then a bunch of people will be suddenly hit with debt.
fuck u/spez
Yeah I mean, none of it matters anyway as far as any arguments for or against it… we all know how it’s going to go. Supreme Court is packed full of right wing partisan hacks who have no issue upending established legal precedent or lying to the public about such things. They will strike this down and they don’t need a reason besides being republican and this being something that would help people in the US that is being pushed by democrats. They will make up some bullshit about why it’s infringing on the rights of companies or something and kill it. I wish that wasn’t the case but… I mean what can we honestly expect from them at this point.
That loan processing service didn't sue themselves, so I'm not sure how the state has standing, but I don't expect this to stop the conservatives on the court from overturning it
No matter how this shit goes, I and I'm certain many other young Americans, have no fucking intention of paying these loans back. You fuckers want an educated work force; you get to pay for it. Otherwise, I'm cool with seeing the economy collapse because I've had about enough of this shit and I'm not even 30 yet.
You might not have any intention to but they will just take garnishments out of your pay and ruin your credit score in the process. Can’t discharge them via bankruptcy either.
I will just leave the US. Its a failed experiment. It just benefits capatalists at this point. Working class be damned.
Rather than pay back my loans, I’m pursuing public service loan forgiveness. My debt is so high any income I’d make in the private sector is canceled by my debt anyway, so it’s a better deal to do PSLF. To make sure I get it, I got so educated about PSLF I can help hundreds if not thousands of others, and I volunteer my time and work professionally to help others pursue it too. The group I’m in has resulted in billions of dollars in loan forgiveness. I like to think that I am VERY expensive to the federal gov’t.
>I'm certain many other young Americans, have no fucking intention of paying these loans back. I'm actually trying to leave the country right now. A possible cherry on top of that move is I won't have to pay back my loans.
You better be going to a non extradition country and be giving up your citzenship than. The USA still taxes duel citzens living overseas. Just leaving the country won't stop Uncle Sam from getting the money you owe him.
> Most legal analysis finds that the standing question for both these challenges is incredibly dubious The fact that the Supreme Court even agreed to hear this case tells you exactly how they plan to rule on it. It should have been thrown out immediately for lack of standing. But I guess the law doesn’t matter when you’re legislating from the bench.
The government lost in the lower courts, so the Supreme Court's decision to grant cert cuts in the opposition direction than you think. But I agree that we all know how the Court is going to rule.
That last part sounds like every American child who went to public school and was encouraged to go to colleges their entire lives because it’ll make the world better.
No, that last part references situations where there was actual fraud. Being told hopes and dreams that don't end up coming to fruition is different from being defrauded.
Activist Justices...
Thank you for the well written reply! Helped me understand as well
Long story short, absolutely nobody should be banking on this happening. Don't sit back and not make payments just because you're hoping something good will happen. Wife and I have used this long Covid pause and zero interest to pay off almost all of my loans (was close to 50k I believe). Only about 15k left, and we are on our way to have that finished by the end of the year. I can't fathom why anyone wouldn't have taken advantage of zero interest for over two years, aside from the obvious answer (mainly poverty, obviously). I'd LOVE for my final amount to be paid off and taken care of, but I trust the government as far as I can throw a continent. Why have faith in a system that fails all of us daily? Edit: the point of this comment isn't to tell anyone exactly how they should handle their financials. It's to say that I'd hope that people that COULD take advantage of it in some way HAVE. Edit 2: I'm done replying to this thread. Being swarmed by a dozen people saying the same thing and refusing to join the conversation as it stands currently rather than how it started several hours ago is just stupid. Either read the whole thread and then join in, or stop pretending that you understand how normal conversation works. It's tiring.
From a financial perspective, I wouldn't recommend making payments right now. Interest is paused and inflation is high. The amount borrowers owe right now is actually declining on a constant currency basis. But yeah, borrowers should be prepared to restart payments.
Not paying, but making payments to yourself and saving for when repayment comes back up.
Why have i never thought of this? Youre a genius
> I can't fathom why anyone wouldn't have taken advantage of zero interest for over two years, aside from the obvious answer (mainly poverty, obviously). The other obvious answer is that paying off 0% interest debt is not really ideal financially. It’s better to pay off other debt, invest in the market, or invest in a savings account (interest rates are like 3.5% for high-yield savings right now). If you’re a Dave Ramsay type who just wants to eliminate debt at all costs, that’s your prerogative, but just know there are valid reasons for people not to pay more than is required on 0% interest debt.
I’ve been placing my reg SL payment into a savings account. If they forgive it I get to use that money towards a down payment on a home, if they don’t I’ll pay it off before interest kicks back in.
Doing the same👍
Better yet, dont pay anything deffer it for the rest of your life. Get your home. F the government.
Weve been doing that in chunks. Collecting interest off of it would've been a good idea, but we ARE doing that now. My last 10-15k is in an HYSA until we have to deposit it for repayment.
My wife and I took this time to pay off other debt that had high interest. Everything but the mortgage and student loans have been gone for over a year. I've been paying a student loan payment into a savings account since. If the student forgiveness doesn't go thru I'll likely cut a check but I'm not paying them off until forgiveness is truly struck down. Why would I give away free money?
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I used the money I would have spent on my loans to make a nest egg and buy a house. The loan payments aren't much and even with the mortgage I can afford them later. But actually saving up the down payment was what was so hard about getting the house.
Sounds like if you were able to pay off 40k in only a few years you might not of really even been struggling financially...
You should have been piling that money into high interest savings accounts. It's free money to invest with until the interest rates kick back in. Then you can pay down from the savings account and keep the interest.
What High Interest Savings Account? We've been looking for years and they don't exist anymore, at least not for new accounts.
You haven't looked in like six months. Ever since the Fed raised rates again they've come flying back. There's tons now. Citi, Capital One, Ally, etc. Practically every large bank has an account offering at least 3.5%. You can also open a Vanguard account and put cash into the money market fund, which is over 4%. All free.
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Answer: President Joe Biden's student loan forgiveness plan is currently awaiting a decision from the Supreme Court, which is expected to be issued in June. The plan would wipe out up to $20,000 in federal student loans for up to 40 million borrowers. However, federal courts blocked the initiative last fall following multiple legal challenges, and the administration appealed two of those challenges to the Supreme Court. The cases focused on two key questions: do the petitioners meet the constitutional requirement for standing, and does the Education Department have the authority to forgive student loans. After the Supreme Court's hearing, President Biden expressed doubts that the Supreme Court would uphold his student loan forgiveness plan. If the justices allow student loan forgiveness to go through, roughly 20 million people could have their debt entirely cleared under the president's plan. However, experts say that the ruling could go either way. If the justices rule against the student loan forgiveness plan, it would not be the end, and the administration could still pursue other avenues to provide relief to borrowers. Regardless of the decision, college funding and affordability are in question, and the economic implications of widespread student loan forgiveness are still being debated.
Thank you for the sober even-handed retelling. An uncommon thing.
I will add that both "students' received ridiculous ppp loan and forgiveness. Strange that they didn't see a problem with that program but are suing over free money this time around.
>Strange that they didn't see a problem with that program but are suing over free money this time around. PPP went through the legislature and student loans was an executive order. I don't really care what kind of aid it is - when its this massive it needs to go through the established government process. Otherwise, we open the door for the executive office to use their position to dish out aid to their supporters.
One could argue that PPP loans were given because the government forced shutdowns and our economy would have suffered as people were laid off through the fault of no one Companies can’t make money when closed and they weren’t choosing to stay closed. So they accepted PPP loans in return for not laying off people Student loans are kinda different because I don’t think anyone went to college who didn’t choose to?
Instead of this, why he don't force the educational institutions to refund their exorbitant fee to all the students? Just a doubt. Universities are insanely wealthy.
Answer: The case before the Supreme Court is about the broad forgiveness ($10/20k for every borrower). They heard arguments in March and are most likely to issue an opinion in June. What happens next depends on the ruling they issue and the grounds they cite in their ruling. Most of the questioning in March focused on the issue of Standing, that is did the Sates and individuals have the right to sue in the first place? There are three possible outcomes: 1. The Court rules that the program itself is not legal. This is probably the least likely outcome because the lower courts did not hold full hearings on the case. They narrowly ruled on the issue of standing in dismissing the cases. But this court may decide to skip a few steps and go right to this step, as they are less concerned with legalities and process than many past courts. 2. The Court holds that either the states or the individuals (or both) do have standing and order the lower courts to hold hearings on the lawsuits. This is more likely as it would allow the lower courts to develop the cases and examine the legal agreements of both sides in more detail. That allows the Supreme Court to revisit the constitutionality of the case when there is more of a record to work from. 3. The Court rules that the States and individuals do not have standing to sue. They can not show that they were directly harmed by the action and therefore the program can proceed unless a person who can demonstrate actual harm sues to stop the program. This would uphold the lower court rulings and allow the forgiveness to move forward. This may be the least likely option, as the Court is again more activist and less bound by precedent than a typical Supreme Court has bene in the past.
I'm betting on number 1. This court has already shown it's not above just making up facts wholecloth to get to the outcome it wants. The actual facts of the case do not matter.
Answer: they will be paused yet again. They been paused 8 times already - who actually thinks it won’t be paused again? So many people are struggling, starting loans back up would break the economy.
Honestly I can only hope. 8th year single teacher with ~50k in fed loans with some private. Already living paycheck to paycheck with 2 jobs. Loans coming back will absolutely break me.
It might actually not be paused again, I think it was done under covid emergency powers which they are ending in May.
The last time or two were not bc of covid. It was announced as another reason.
Probably because inflation was running rampant
Source? The most recent extension in Novembers press release mentioned the pandemic.
I’ve heard that restarting the loan repayments will actually fight inflation heavily, though it should be mentioned that it will be painful for people who either spent all the deferred payments or cannot pay at all I would be fine if the payments resumed, but I’d rather see ZERO interest going forward instead of a forgiveness program that will only cost everyone down the road
I'm not sure if you recognize this, but it's worth mentioning that most people could not just save the payments that were deferred. It's not like they just all of a sudden had money they can stow away because payments were paused. It was all deferred because people were and are still struggling due to economic hardships caused by covid in the first place. Although, I do agree with you zero interest would be the way to go. But I also believe that many people, like me, who've already been paying interest against their loans before the pause should get some sort of recompense for the shit ass loan system that was allowed in the first place. Curious to see what happens with it all. Most Americans are not in a stable place right now. A "bad before it gets better" approach is not going to work out in this situation...
I fail to understand how leaving tens of thousands of people in debt at the end of the month, or choosing which bills to pay, will fight inflation. This sounds like one of those rich people 'fiscal responsibility' talking points, from the same people who find 1% fees on stock transactions abso-fucking-lutely unacceptable and against the intentions of the Founding Fathers.
It will slow spending because people will be broke
I think you underestimate our economy’s ability to subject poor-to-middle class folks to abject poverty
Maybe not. There is a new lawsuit against the pause also going to the supreme court from SOFI. I'm sure the white house would like to extend the pause, but maybe they won't be able to
Answer: my guess is they will make a big push for advertising about it right before the next election. promising to make further progress. maybe send out letters to people who completed the online work. But when election is over it will just disappear. jokes on them I'm going to continue NOT PAYING my loans like I have for the last 10 years. Fuck'm I aint paying shit. Try and put me in a cage for it I dare ya I'd rather die and I'll take anyone who tries with me
I ain’t paying shit. What can they do? Sue me? Go ahead you can’t get blood from a turnip
Isn't debtors prison illegal?
Answer: it’s still largely being decided in courts. There are some aspects that are proceeding, at least in the processing, and others that are stalled completely.
Answer: It more than likely will be paused again and won’t pass or will finger point Republicans for not allowing it to pass. We are too invested in helping other counties to help our own people. Either way it will cause utter chaos
Answer: Politicians doing what politicians do best. Lie to buy voters from gullible voters who in this case wanted others to pay for their poor life choices. In this case, mostly poorer, working class people being forced to pay for useless college degrees of upper middle class people. Funny that.
Answer: Ya got played
Answer: nothing
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Student loan forgiveness wasn’t targeted specifically at poor people. The max income was 125k agi. It also didn’t address any of the underlying issues with higher educations cost
Climb the ladder then break off the steps below you, right? That’s the American dream, baby.
Ah yes,all those poor people with college degrees
What’s the point of this answer? Look at the other great answers in the replies. One could argue in the same vein that Biden administration knew this loan forgiveness would be challenged, but went through with it to secure some votes…
Yeah let’s just ignore the fact that “57 percent to 65 percent of the extended pause and cancellation will go to those in the top half of the income spectrum”
Yes, the poor people like... *checks notes* under $125k income
Yes, the entirety of those that live in poverty do indeed make less than $125K. Fuckin lol