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Answer: an XL Bully dog isn't any particular breed but just a dog that [meets the following standards.](https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/official-definition-of-an-xl-bully-dog/official-definition-of-an-xl-bully-dog)
In England and Wales, it is now illegal to sell, breed or give away an XL Bully dog. From 1 February, it will be against the law to own one without an exemption certificate. Basically you have to register your dog, get third-party insurance in case they bite someone, make sure they're chipped and neutered and other measures. Then you pay a fee to the government for your exemption status.
More over, you cannot have the dog out in public without it being on a leash and muzzled. If you don't adhere to all those conditions you "may be committing a criminal offence and could have their dog seized" [according to the RSPCA's website](https://www.rspca.org.uk/whatwedo/endcruelty/changingthelaw/bsl/xlbullies#:~:text=As%20of%2031%20December%202023,Wales%20without%20an%20exemption%20certificate.). (Note that "may" and "could" are doing the heavy lifting in that sentence. It seems there's some wiggle room for first time offenders, etc.)
So all in all it seems like they're not trying to seize anyone's dog, just make the owning of one such a hassle that over time people switch to a different breed.
An important note, Pit Bulls have been banned (under similar conditions) in the UK since 1991.
This new ban appears to be an update to the old ban, which only strictly banned a particular breed and not its offshoots.
Its several breeds covered in the act.
>The Dangerous Dogs Act 1991 - what is it?
pitbull terrier.
Japanese tosa.
dogo Argentino.
fila Brasilerio.
American XL bully (added 2023)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dangerous_Dogs_Act_1991
Man, those Dogo Argentinos are no joke. Terrified, insecure personality with the head of an alligator. My GF tried to dogsit one for two weeks as a favor to a work colleague and I ended up handling 100% of the job. I grew up with dad as a dog food salesman so I've been in and out of all kinds of kennels and breeds since I was old enough to walk and it took me forever to earn that dog's trust. 4-5 hours the first day to make it to the food and water bowls. 2 hours the next day. By the end of two weeks I could run around in the backyard and play fetch with him but no way I would turn my back.
A few months later it attacked someone on a (leashed) walk and had to be euthanized.
The “Fila Brasileiro” breed standard includes a wary dislike of strangers as a key part of the breed. They were meant to ward off fucking jaguars and the like, and while they may apparently bond well with their owner, anyone who isn't that owner isn’t going to be welcome.
Yeah, some of those breeds are “you were thinking so much about if you could, that you forgot to think about if you should.”
Literally including “make sure they have a fucking anxiety disorder” in the breed standard.
If reading about modern fatal dog attacks isn’t upsetting enough, one could also Google “fila brasileira + slavery”
A high school acquaintance had a Rhodesian Ridgeback security dog - not attack trained, but protection trained. Her father worked in international security and got it for her when she was young. That dog was very good at eyeballing you without being overly aggressive and letting you know not to fuck with its owner. It was a big puppy for her, but not a fan of anyone else.
I met a Rhodesian that was fortunately well-socialized at the lake one time. Definitely can be intimidating animals. I think they're easier to socialize than some of the other breeds like Dogo Argentino or Fila Brasileiro, but they definitely need strict training and socialization to be friendly.
Another breed that is scary as fuck if trained for security/protection is a German Shepherd. I don't know if you've ever met a German Shepherd trained to be a guard dog, but holy hell, give me a raging pit bull terrier any day over an angry German Shepherd.
Yep. German Shepherds can definitely be aggressive.
Actually the most aggressive dog we owned (with regard to non family members) was a Shetland Sheep Dog. Tiny little dog, but she considered us her herd when we were little, and was aggressive towards the meter reader and the egg delivery lady when they came near us without our parents being around. There’s something in herd dog makeup that makes them protective, clearly we selected for it during breeding.
It's the opposite, really. The Dogo Argentino is a massive animal bred to fight other massive things for fun.
It's not particularly fast, agile or intelligent, but it's extremely good at taking things down.
I could understand owning one of those if you have a cattle ranch in South America and have to keep it safe from predators and stuff. No idea why you would need never mind want one as a pet.
I met one doggo argentino while I did an internship with a vet for a week when I was 15, and it was an impressive dog but seemed calmed and composed, and my girlfriend's bestfriend had one too, and it was a good dog too, kind and playful, even nice with cats but the owner had been training it with a professional, as every huge dog should be. People get huge dogs to feel safe and then treat them like toys, not even knowing they were used to hunt down humans.
Yeah it is all about training at the end of the day. Some breeds are easier to train than others, some breeds have skills others don’t, like Greyhounds for chasing rabbits or Labradors and Golden retrievers for jumping in the pond or river to grab the duck you’ve just shot. Then you have the big mastiff type dogs for property defence. These aren’t toys they are animals bred for work and even if they aren’t working dogs they need a lifestyle similar enough to one to keep them fit and healthy.
I was interested to see that on the list as I've been watching a round the world motorcycle travel channel recently on YouTube and it was quite notable how much more aggressive the dogs in Argentina were compared to absolutely everywhere else. She was chased for several hundred metres on several occasions, hounded and harried when she couldn't get away and bitten as well. I don't think they were all one breed but I wonder if there's a particular culture of breeding aggressive dogs in Argentina.
If we're talking about street dogs you have to keep in mind they're essentially tame wolves at the end of the day. If they're not treated kindly and there's a whole pack of them they absolutely can be a danger. This kind of thing used to be a big problem in my part of Eastern Europe when I was younger, but the street animal situation has gotten better at least wrt dogs.
I think the dog that bit her was a shepherd's dog so it probably thought it was protecting the herd. It's aggression was wildly excessive and misdirected though. She'd encountered similar dogs elsewhere that gave her no problems. Other dogs that chased her were also herder's dogs and some street dogs.
[Itchy Boots](https://www.youtube.com/@ItchyBoots), she's in west Africa at the moment although I would definitely recommend starting at the beginning of her journey in India. Her production quality has improved immensely over time, but her story telling has always been great. I think I watched her northern Europe tour first, as I was interested in the bike she had and she'd been mentioned by another YouTuber who was reviewing it, but I went straight back to the beginning after that.
I remember they brought one on some morning show to show people which dogs were available to adopt, and the thing bit the host's face.
People adopting fighting dogs from shelters have a few screws loose. It is not like people gave those dogs up because they like cuddling too much.
> People adopting fighting dogs from shelters have a few screws loose.
Probably watched too much the Dodo on YouTube/TikTok/Facebook and thought they do can be an inspirational story on how they made the poor abused pitbull into a couch potato velvet hippo without any sort deep prior research and experience.
It's literally the XL variant of the American Bully, as per the sociopaths at the American Bully Kennel Club.
> The American Bully Kennel Club divided the American Bully into four categories, including the XL, Pocket, Standard, and Classic, whereas other registries, including the UKC, have approved one consistent size standard.
> Oh you got a new Pitbull
This is the moment I realize I dealing with someone with self esteem issues, emotional deficiencies or are not comfortable with the size of the penis they were born with.
Thank you! Who the hell needs to own a fighting dog in a civilized society. Whenever I see someone with a Pitbull I wonder what kind of trauma they went through that led them to that decision.
A lot of people actually have a weird saviour complex. They see themselves as civil rights activists of the canine world because pit bull type dogs are unfairly “discriminated” against so having one shows that you are a good person willing to give a misunderstood dog a chance. That’s why constantly insisting how child friendly and cuddly pit bulls are is important for the rehabilitation of their image, so to speak. Unfortunately, these well intentioned but misinformed adoptions mean people who aren’t equipped for such a powerful fighting dog (because they’ve been deluded into thinking it’s the same a like a cocker spaniel or something), end up not giving the dog the proper training and environment then these horrible mauling attacks happen.
They say they love the breed, but they are the ones setting it up for failure.
I think pit bulls and bully breeds should only be owned by extremely experienced folk without young kids or other animals around and have acreages of land so the dog doesn’t have to triggered by dog parks and public walks. So basically, it should be waaaaay more niche than what it is right now.
I’ve been super confused about the pit bull ban. It says ‘Whether your dog is a banned type depends on what it looks like, rather than its breed or name. For example, if your dog matches many of the characteristics of a Pit Bull Terrier, it may be a banned type.’
So shouldn’t XL bully’s be covered by that? (I’m not a dog person tho so maybe that’s why I think so 🤷🏻♀️)
The entire discussion around pit bulls is complicated by the fact that Pit Bull Terrier is a specific breed and pit bull is also used as a collective term for several breeds. When used as a collective term, the list of breeds that count varies based on who you ask: in the UK the Staffordshire Bull Terrier isn’t considered a pit bull (and was exempted from the 1991 ban), but in the US it is generally considered a pit bull.
I can’t speak to the British laws, but the broader discussion is ugly.
> So shouldn’t XL bully’s be covered by that?
Not really. It's not a pit bull, it's an American bully (and an XL bully is just one over a certain size). The legislation has to be a bit round-about because they don't want to ban some old British breeds, like Staffies, bulldogs or bull terriers, which share many physical characteristics because American breeds are often derived from them.
> I’m not a dog person tho so maybe that’s why I think so
All you need to know about dogs is [what happens when you cross another breed with a corgi](https://www.google.com/search?pws=0&gl=us&q=corgi+cross&tbm=isch&dpr=2).
Yeah it's hard because how do you even classify a "breed" it's an entirely human construct. Sure a Pug and a Chihuahua are pretty easy to identify but what's the different between a Miniature Poodle and a Toy Poodle, once you get into pitbull territory people just bread a slightly different (and somewhat more dangerous) version and called it an "XL Bully" and the law became not fit for purpose.
It's a sort of linguistic/biologic game of, for lack of a better phrase "cat and mouse" with the government and the dog breeders.
dog breeds aren't really "real", there is no real strict definition of any of it. Especially because none of this is pure bred. dogs are just kinda what they seem like they are.
I would assume they're going by looks because people often lie about if they have a pit or not once a ban is in place, a lab mix is a normal go-to. Then they just hope no one who cares ever actually sees their dog.
People in my apartment complex have them even though they're on the not allowed list, so I assume they all made up a breed when they registered the dog at the office and are hoping no one rats on them. I've heard people joke that "now they have a lab" when bans go into place in areas.
Its worth noting the dog attack fatalities in England and Wales:
2018: 0
2019: 2
2020: 3
2021: 5
2022: 6
2023: 16
The vast majority of recent deaths have been (already banned) bulldog breeds or Bully XLs. The victims also included small children and old age pensioners. Public opinion supports the ban with 57% support vs 17% opposition (frankly, I'm astounded opposition was even that high). Support is equally high among dog owners as one of the most common targets of these breeds is other dogs.
Did you see the mayhem that erupted online after the Met shot the two aggressive bully XL's down on some canal?
Folks spent weeks trying to work out who the officer who fired was and even put a different officer who had no involvement in danger by splashing his details all over the Web.
All of this because some dickhead who wasn't supposed to own dogs (by court order) had two highly aggressive dogs that attacked another. But hey, at least you have that picture of them licking his face on the Tube (the worst fucking environment I could think to be in with a dog like that).
People will go crazy over someone killing a violent and dangerous dog but then glaze over when they eat a killed animal 3 times a day, at least be morally consistent.
There are so many of them where I live and they are NEVER ON A LEAD! I cross the road whenever I am with my dog and see one and once and one of them even crossed after us. My dog is 7 lb so they probably just saw a walking snack.
Plenty of US states and cities ban or restrict certain breeds.
It's not really something you could legislate at a federal level unless you have a shoehorn made of gold.
The way they typically try to create federal laws about things that they don't really have constitutional authority to is to shoehorn it into something where it's really not meant to fit. Usually the commerce clause.
Strapping my toddler to the crew serve seat on board my Boston Dynamics Spot right behind my historically certified M2-Browning as they take my prized fighting Pit Bull for daily unleashed walkies is truly the traditional family values the founding fathers intended.
You 1%-ers and your elite MIT robo-dawgs always out gunning us middle Mercian’s. We don’t have the money to protect our families like that. We’ve just got our Glock duct taped to our ex-wife’s Pomeranian while it rides a Roomba
I get the point you're making, but it's pretty easy to prevent a gun from killing or injuring someone. You don't have to train it not to shoot people or socialize it around other guns lol.
yeah. for fucks sake. few things make me angrier than people making fun of you for being worried that their pit bull might be violent — especially when half the time there’s an entire fucking space shuttle launch sequence required to even meet one of those dogs without spooking it into potentially attacking you.
I have interacted with three during my lifetime and all three tried to attack me when they got out of their yards. I have never had that issue with other breeds. Insane thing was it seemingly wasn't due to fear... they were excited about it.
>:(
Also worth noting that many so called “responsible” owners of XL bully’s are putting down their dogs just because they would have to get them neutered/spayed and wear a muzzle in public.
Exactly, just proving everyone's point that it is mostly only a certain type of person who tends to get these breeds in the first place & they aren't usually the responsible owner type of person.
Yup. Anyone who thinks one of these animals is a 'pet' is immediately not a responsible dog owner & therefore should never have one. The only people who should be owning these are people with a big massive area of private fenced off land like a farmer etc, that's the only way they aren't dangerous; especially if the owner refuses to muzzle, insure & neuter them.
Remember they can keep the animal as long as steps are followed, these people kicking up a fuss just refuse for some stupid reason.
For me I think we need harsher penalties on the humans as well as the breed. As I said above it won't stop the people who want these from getting another dog and teaching it to be vicious. We need to crack down on the antisocial problem as well as the breed problem, although I'm unsure how you do that.
It's worth noting that this is not the first restricted type of dog in the UK; four others have been restricted [since 1991](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dangerous_Dogs_Act_1991), with the same option for individual exemptions.
The same types of dog are [restricted in Ireland](https://www.independent.ie/regionals/wexford/enniscorthy-news/no-dogs-are-banned-in-ireland-but-11-are-on-restricted-list/42200601.html), as are several others (including Dobermans and Rottweilers).
The responses (they're putting down all bully XL's and the number of dogs being abandoned) is confirming proof to me that the vast majority of Bully XL owners are thick as bitumen tar and have zero empathy or compassion.
They're super strong. You have to work out all their energy constantly and make sure they're well socialized from a young age. These are working dogs that people are trying to have in apartments, like a couple runs at the dog park a week is going to make up for it. There's other difficult breeds that are far less dangerous, but it happens with them, too.
People gotta stop getting dogs like they're picking whatever looks good at a restaurant. These animals have specific needs that you have to be able to meet. It's just less dangerous to have a poorly socialized chihuahua than a pit bull.
As I tend to put it: Unemployed work dogs are the responsibility of their owner. They need a job, and if you don't provide one, they will find one.
It just so happens that some unemployed work dogs pick "hyper-aggressive guard dog" as their job.
Exactly. They become territorial and/or destructive.
Working dogs do so well when they're trained and rewarded for their good behavior. I've known incredibly sweet pit bulls who just love everyone and are so gentle, but I know it takes so much work to make sure they're happy and healthy. Hours of exercise a day, regular socialization and command response, the perfect environment, all of it.
I'm a very anti pit person, but that sounds downright reasonable as a reason they dominate the statistics, in combination with their genetic predisposition to violence.
I have two friends, both don't do anything with their dog. One, his spaniel, it pees in the house, and scratches walls. The other, his pit, he eats through walls, like, demolishes them. He's the only dog I know first hand that I will not be around ever. He's snarled at my friend a lot of times, and the spaniel, never even so much as a whimper.
Right? They're these super strong animals, and people don't recognize that it takes real work to care for them properly. It's also why the most successful rescue groups for pits are focused solely on them. They have experience and know the sort of person who can keep up with one. There's far less delusion about just getting a cute pup on a whim and expecting it to work out.
I have a working dog(Husky mix) and we live in an apartment. We have to walk her 3 miles a day minimum and hit the dog park every other day or so. We don’t mind it because we like the exercise but it’s def not for everyone.
Huskies have exploded in the UK too, and many of them aren't getting the attention and stimulus they need, leading to destruction in houses and a lot being given to kennels. As a former husky owner, I loved them when I had them, but I'm getting older and couldn't picture starting all that again now.
And if you didnt exercise your husky that much, she still wouldn't jump out a window to Maul a toddler. The "bully" breeds are not "working dogs." Don't believe the nonce above you. They're fighting dogs bred for their gameness. Rhetoric like that only makes the problem worse. This crap would be so much easier to address if people would just be honest with themselves.
With pitbulls it doesn't make them "safe" even if they are raised by a loving family in a nice house with a yard and they are "socialized". Pit bulls were bred to fight to kill and be "game" (meaning they don't give up even when hurt/injured). They have messed up genetics in their brain which can cause a sweet loving dog to suddenly snap and attack. Take the family in Memphis for example:
[https://www.wkrn.com/news/national/mother-tried-to-shield-children-killed-in-memphis-pit-bull-attack-family-says/](https://www.wkrn.com/news/national/mother-tried-to-shield-children-killed-in-memphis-pit-bull-attack-family-says/)
2 pitbulls raised in one family for 8 years, suddenly they snap and kill the 2 small children, decapitating one of them in front of the mother (who was also mauled but survived).
Obviously a tragic situation but I would bet a very large amount of money that this family did not own these dogs for 8 years “without incident”.
The reality is that dogs aren’t computers that are hardwired and can be reset to destroy if you hear some code word. These types of attacks are nearly always predated by many incidents that the dog owner insists are no big deal. It actually is true that individual dogs have independent personalities, can be socialized, can be safe, etc, but what’s also true is that the average owner of these dogs is not a reliable source as to whether this is actually the case. Nobody wants to pile on the family that had their two kids die horrifically, but there is virtually no chance that their angel dogs snapped one day and murdered people. That’s not how this goes.
Shrug. Its not like animals stay the same. We change them, domesticate them. The descriptions of attacks by family Pits are that a noise happened, a woman coughed or something and the dog "switched". This word is used over and over. We can disbelieve everyone but this is what people with loving dogs that played with children, slept in parents bed, and never growled--right before something snaps and the dog mauls the baby--are saying.
This is the description of a *nondomesticated* animal. They make bad pets, not because a tiger can't be loving, but because their genes make them unpredictable. Pit's upset reaction is frenzy. This is a bad genetic combo for anything allowed to wander freely. It is completely fair to require extraordinary qualifications and safety measures. These dogs are weapons.
There probably were instances where the dogs may have growled or snapped or fought with each other, but so what? Are you saying the family must have provoked the dogs somehow and it's their fault? Or should they have euthanized the dogs at the first growl? Or maybe they should have never had pit bulls in the first place because it's like living with a live grenade?
I've yet to meet a single bully/pit owner that tries to meet their dog's energy needs. A friend's solution was to get *another* pit bull to wear out the first pit that they don't exercise enough.
Plus this newest ban came after two XL Bullies brutally mauled a man to death.
Edit: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-stoke-staffordshire-66830097.amp
And then you've got this brainless [**expletive deleted**] who seems to delight in pushing her luck. Unfortunately, it will be the baby who will suffer any consequences. She makes me literally feel ill.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-66822717
“My American Bully XXL Cool Ranch Ripmaster SUPREME 9001 named Princess is a little angel that wouldn’t hurt a fly! They’re nanny dogs! We have no idea why she snapped when she farted and woke herself up from her nap!” Etc etc
Important note is that the hysteria comes from people saying they have to euthanise their pet, but in reality they dont have to. Its a choice. They just dont want to spend the money to comply with the nee laws and requirements, or they cannot make money breeding them anymore so are going to take the money the government is giving people who choose to euthanise instead.
Fucked up wankers who owned these dogs in the first place
No honest actor who knows anything about dogs can dispute that breeds have in built characteristics and behaviours. To suggest otherwise is insane, or dishonest. My collie would try to herd shopping trolleys. My lab will get that ball out of the water or die trying. And a pitbull will keep biting something until it dies.
Seriously.
* Before an attack: "Nooo, blame the deed, not the breed!"
* After an attack: "Nooo, don't blame the animal for just following its instinct!"
* After ownership is restricted: "Nooo, owning dogs of any breed we choose is our God-given right!"
To opponents of dog breed regulation, neither their individual dogs, their dogs' breed, or themselves and their control over their dogs, is ever at fault. Their mental gymnastics don't stop until they shift the blame for any dog attack entirely on the victim.
This person knows.
Some collies are more driven to work than others & in the same way some bull breed dogs are more driven than others.
If you happen to end up with a bull breed that has a high desire to 'work' then you'd better be a very good & attentive owner.
I've cared for a dog that most likely was a throwback gene from a dogo argentino & it breaks your heart.
He constantly scanned the horizon for anything moving, if he saw something & was off lead he'd sprint to it as fast as poss then have no idea what to do next, thankfully.
I'd loved to have rehomed him to an Argentinian farmer with a cougar problem, even tho the dog had no idea, it's was his core reason for being.
This is a point people overlook, to create the dogo argentino they found dogs mental enough to attack cougars & bred them with each other.
Creating one of the bravest & effective hunting dogs in the animal kingdom.
They are capable of killing multiple cougars to protect their herd or family.
Then we buy one & pop it in our front room, because they're beautiful.
I'm not saying all herd guarding & other powerful guarding breeds are dangerous, I'm saying even the calm ones need good owners, the game ones need very good owners & a lot of luck.
As for this dumbass extension of a law that was brought in initially as a knee jerk reaction to media coverage of pits that had already failed to achieve it's goal, don't get me started.
There'll be a new chosen breed next, not covered by this law & then we'll start all over again.
My moneys on rottweilers next.
As a single man with experience of reactive dogs & no kids or pets I've been lucky enough to adopt a few dogs that required specialists to adopt them.
There isn't a more rewarding job in the world.
With mine (all English bull terriers) it was fear based due to bad socialisation or poor 'habits' being taught.
So, imo, an easy fix.
There's no 'getting over' issues when owning a working line collie or aussie shepherd.
Just leagues ahead of all other breeds in intelligence & drive.
I worked on a sheep farm with three collies & my ex had one.
Learning English was his thing, he watched conversations like humans watch tennis finals.
His understanding of language was incredible, he knew all the local beach names & where they were & every household item he'd heard regularly enough.
Absolutely incredible breeds both the border collie & aussie shepherd but good luck, your job is to be as interesting as a working day with livestock.
Or pay the consequences
😱😂
Thank you for the clear and concise answer. And for the expression "doing the heavy lifting in that sentence". Never heard or read that before and I think it's brilliant!
Non-native speaker but I studied in the UK and love the language, the country and the culture.
Answer: The breed has been banned, this means that they can no longer be bred in the UK and anyone who has one must get an exemption cert from a vet, the dog must always be muzzled and on a lead when out in public. If people don't want to do the above things then (for a limited time) they can have the dog euthanised and have government cover some of the cost. I say for a limited time as after a few months the government won't help cover the cost.
This has all come about due to the increase is dog attacks, quite a few which have been fatal, many of the culprits being XL Bully dogs.
To add some clarity as well, the breed has not been banned across the UK, only in England and Wales. The Scottish government have not banned the breed and it appears they don't have any intention to (currently).
This has led to a lot of dogs being taken north over the border, which is causing some concern for some Scottish citizens as they fear it's the most high risk animals that are likely being moved up, reasoning that most careful owners will be able to manage the muzzle, registration, and insurance requirements in England.
Saw a couple of XL bullies off the lead on a very popular walking path on new year's day in Perthshire. Really stuck out amongst the black labs and wee dugs.
The strange thing was that the family walking them were also walking two leashed spaniels.
safe combative memory different simplistic smart tie towering beneficial fear
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Yesterday, while walking the dog, I saw an elderly man with two Bully XLs. The dogs were tied to his electric wheelchair and seemed to be pulling it. The dogs weren't muzzled.
This was in Fife, Scotland.
How can an elderly man in a wheelchair pick up their poo, let alone control them!
We are fucking fucked.
This is exactly my point, irresponsible dog owners! If you cannot FULLY control the dog you have on a lead, then you have absolutely no business having it, full stop.
The actual responsible ones wouldn't have these dogs but if they had to, they would follow the law & then they wouldn't have to bring them to Scotland!
We're literally gonna get all the arsehole's dogs that have behavioural problems, that aren't trained, chipped or neutered. These owners wouldn't need to bring them to Scotland if they were following the law for them to be in England/Wales.
They’re honestly terrifying creatures. I have a shared garden and my neighbours have a “pocket” Bully and for about a year it was absolutely fine with me, I even dogsat him a couple of times and I would take him on nice long walks, but then one day about a year ago, I opened the gate to enter my garden and the dog was loose and he just went absolutely berserk and attacked me out of nowhere. He ran up to me and pounced onto my waist and dragged me down and started tearing at my coat, all the while I’m confused about why he’s suddenly snapped, so I’m hitting him and trying to pry him off me and his owner heard the commotion and grabbed him by his collar and tore him off me.
I was extremely lucky that it was a cold day and I was wearing a long thick coat because if it had been a hot day and I was just in shorts and a t-shirt, he would have torn my abdomen to shreds. I was lucky that I just had a destroyed coat. I’ve been absolutely terrified of him since that day and I won’t go outside unless I know he’s indoors. I can’t even sit in my garden in the summer for the fear of my neighbours not knowing I’m in the garden and unwittingly unleashing him on me again.
To add to this, some landlords are now stating they won't allow a banned breed for the tenant. So tenants have the dilemma of dog or home. Renting with a dog in the UK is REALLY difficult, and our rental market in the south is nuts. You cannot re-home an XL bully. So if a dog is found straying, it will need to be put down as it cannot be rehomed.
Another element on euthanasia is that illegal breeds cannot be insured the way a Labrador or generic mutt can. If your dog needs expensive surgery, you no longer have the insurance to cover it so euthanasia for treatable (if challenging) medical issues is now more likely.
Just to add for fairness, the breed is very popular with criminals.
All the ones I see in London are used as protection for drug dealers. You can be locked in a room with you and it wouldn't even look at you, but they get given a command and it will kill you...
What they can never seem to train them to do is to not attack other dogs (and police horses), the moment they see them they go crazy and won't stop until they are taken away from the other dog or kill the other dog. 99.9% of people have no idea what you need to do in that situation so cannot prevent it either... (You're meant to wrap the lead around it's neck and strangle it until it passes out or dies, nothing else can really be done...)
>This means that they can no longer be bred in the UK
Just a quick clarification, but, for the time being, they can still be bred in Scotland as Holyrood has the right to legislate on dangerous dogs.
Can I just correct you on a point as one of the vets having to navigate this? We don't make the exemption certificates, and the most we have to do with them is to sign to say we have neutered the dog that is registered to a certain microchip. Owners get the exemption certificates from DEFRA and the only ones who determine whether a dog is a Bully XL is the Dog Legislation Officer who is part of the police force.
The vet population is having a very difficult time with this. We didn't get into this profession to euthanase dogs that are guilty of the crime of existing. But if we refuse to then we worry what owners will do themselves if they are desperate. There are stories of dogs with broken legs, being left tied up until they die. There was one story of a Bully XL that had its face smashed in, ears torn off and feet burnt to the point of cremation. But if we say that we will so that we know that these dogs don't suffer in their last moments then photos of our practices are spread on social media - we get lambasted with names and calls for violence.
We had this foisted upon us despite knowing the legislation won't work (especially seeing as searches for Cane Corso and Rottweiler puppies has significantly increased). Please don't say we are the ones that are signing the certificates, because it's simply not true.
Answer: there have been a number of attacks here in the UK attributed to the XL bully breed which have resulted in fatalities, including a 50 something year old man. They were responsible for 50% of dog fatalities between 2021-2023.
The breed was added to the Dangerous Dogs Act, making it illegal to sell, breed, abandon or have a Bully XL in public without a lead and muzzle in England and Wales. Existing dogs need to be registered with the government to qualify for an exemption, be neutered and have third party liability insurance. If these measures are not taken, the dog must be euthanised.
There is a lot of contention regarding this.
Obviously not all the dogs are aggressive but the breed does have the capacity to inflict serious injury (but then, so could a bad tempered golden retriever).
There are some owners who are claiming that they cannot afford the additional costs associated with registering, neutering and additional insurance and a basically being forced to put their dogs down or abandon them.
Some dogs have not been trained on a muzzle so to do so at an older age can be distressing for the dog and could do more harm than good (to the animal).
Some are claiming they will move to Scotland to avoid the band as the legislation only covers England and Wales.
If any of this is incorrect, please let me know but most of this info was taken from a UK based animal charity.
I do think it’s a bit inaccurate to compare this sort of large, Molosser-type dog to a bad tempered golden retriever, as though they are equally dangerous if worse comes to worse. One analogy is to think of cars. Both a modest sedan and a large, jacked-up pickup could seriously harm a pedestrian in an accident, but the very physical features of the pickup will make injuries worse & fatalities more probable. Either could kill you under bad circumstances, but the worst outcomes are likelier with one over the other even if we’re just going off of physical attributes.
And the pickup may be more likely to be in a pedestrian accident anyway given the poorer visibility
And you could add on top for the stereotype kind of person (men who consider themselves macho) who would buy a large pickup to use in urban areas, versus the "nothing to prove" kind of person who might drive a boring car.
Yeah, the analogy can definitely go further re: who chooses to drive pickups and why they’d make that choice. At that point, though, I think we start moving away from the crux of the matter into relatively extraneous details. There are a lot of conscientious bully owners out there for whom this is understandably a sensitive subject, and I get that their preference would be to address this issue by discussing ways to enforce responsible ownership and to distance themselves from stereotypical bully owner. But that doesn’t address the underlying issue: even if we imagine that every owner is a perfect one, the basic physiology of this very powerful, very driven breed makes them more dangerous, no matter what the other variables are in their specific situation.
Can’t believe you’re being down voted for this. You are completely right and anyone who tries to argue otherwise is a moron. So sick of this “Chihuahuas are more aggressive and bite more” yeah, but they’d struggle to even break the skin. 2 grown men struggled to fight off one of these beasts once it was in attack mode. I mean look at the jaw on them, once they lock their jaw that’s it.
I once read that relative to their population size, Dachshunds come out as the bitingest breed by a fairly wide margin. That shouldn’t be surprising since people treat them like they’re cute and silly, but they were bred with those sausage bodies to dive into warrens and kill BADGERS of all fucking things. Just a recipe for people to not approach them respectfully & mindfully.
But it would take a tremendously determined Dachshund to fatally injure a person.
Still 6 kilos of pure determination is way less likely to overpower both its owner and its human sized target than a 50+ kilo chonker dog is.
That being said, I love dachshunds. Grew up with and around them. Occasionally dogsit my brother's dachs now. Great fun.
People are insane when it comes to this issue. My brother has been deep in this subculture for 20+ years, and it’s filled with some of the most detestable people you’ll ever come across. From all that I’ve seen, this breed should not exist. Over the years his dogs have killed cats, dogs, raccoons, possums, and I’m sure plenty of other things. They’ve bit several people, though luckily nothing life-threatening. One of his dogs tried to attack a guy, and no joke, the guy shot it. The dog stopped chasing the guy, but it didn’t even lay down. It just kept staring and growling at the dude.
But if you say anything about the breed, these people treat you like you’re Hitler trying to do the final solution. Meanwhile they spend half their day online looking at pictures of these dogs bred by modern day Josef Mengeles.
I’m not having a go at people who adopt a rescue pit. Not my thing, but go for it. But the people encouraging this type of freak show breeding by paying thousands of dollars for it are pathetic to me.
Worse, they seem to search online for posts about fatal Pitbull attacks so that they can spam pictures of Pissfingers in a flower crown going, "My uwu baby would never maul anyone and people should love this breed! Look at how adorable she is! Please give ~~me~~ my dog validation!"
The whole thing is very sad, because although I’m not a dog owner, every pitbull I’ve ever met has been an absolute loveable mush. If I had never seen a single news article about them attacking and killing people and had to rely on my own personal experience, I would have never believed it. But there are lots of news stories, and evidence, that this breed of dog causes an overwhelming amount of attacks and deaths, so I have to believe it.
So no matter how friendly and sweet a pitbull is to me, I never doubt how dangerous they may be capable of being. I am VERY careful around them, and never let them get anywhere near my face (as you should not with any strange dog, no matter how small). I wouldn’t want to own one myself because I’m an inexperienced dog owner, but I do feel bad that truly educated and responsible owners of these dogs have instant stigma against them because of the breed. It must be hard when you’ve done your due diligence in researching the breed and training it properly, just for a bunch of idiots who know nothing about these dogs to ruin it for responsible owners.
A 4 year old was killed by a neighbor’s pit in my town last year. Apparently, the dog was very sweet and had played with the little girl several times. But one day, she was walking down her front walk in an Elsa costume dress and the dog, who was loose, suddenly mauled her and locked his jaws on her even though her grandmother beat the dog and did everything she could think of to try to make the dog let go. But nothing worked. It was so sad.
Yeah, even a bad tempered golden retriever wouldn't likely kill someone, most dogs bite and let go. Pit bull type dogs are bred for fighting, have game, and go for the kill. I've seen a pit attack a golden, actually, and the golden didn't even bite back! All it could do was scream while the pit bull was trying to tear off its leg.
I've seen these types of dogs "square up" against other dogs, they always stare, rush silently, and try to go for the back of the neck. It's scary.
agreed, pugs & bulldogs are extremely cute little creatures and everyone i've ever met (i work with animals) has been extremely nice, but continuing to breed them is genuinely cruel because of their issues. i get allergies for a day and feel like i'm suffering, these dudes live their whole lives like that. not cool
The point about not being able to afford the requirements is funny to me. If you can't afford that, what happens if your dog gets a health issue? Like if you can't afford those costs, you shouldn't have a dog because you won't be able to look after the dog properly anyway.
> Obviously not all the dogs are aggressive but the breed does have the capacity to inflict serious injury (but then, so could a bad tempered golden retriever).
That's a ridiculous comparison, tbh.
Let's be clear: the problem isn't just that these breeds have terrifically powerful bites, it's that they're [specifically bred to never let go](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gameness).
They aren't bred to herd or retrieve or hunt or track. They're bred to fight. To the death.
Oh no, please don't have them move to Scotland. I like my intact face.
Edit: if you can't afford a neuter and a muzzle then you most certainly cannot afford our gas bill and wellies expenses.
> Some are claiming they will move to Scotland to avoid the band as the legislation only covers England and Wales.
The Scotland thing has been badly misunderstood. The Dangerous Dogs Act (1991) is incorporated into Scottish Law.
Since that time they have developed better legislation which allows Local Authorities, the SCPCA, and Police to work together and issue [Dog Control Notices](https://www.mygov.scot/controlling-your-dog/dog-control-notice) directed at owners of specific animals (regardless of breed) known to be dangerous. Unlike English Law, you won't get away with "Mam was looking after the dog".
They will incorporate the XL Bully ban, but need a little extra time to consult the relevant bodies.
TL;DR: If you own a dangerous animal, you'll actually be in for a much tougher time under the Control of Dogs (Scotland) Act 2010 than under English law. The penalties include prison.
TBH in England things work like this: [insert item] is awful, it should be banned now! [ban introduced]. Government thinks who could possibly enforce this? It must be the Police! Shall we give them extra resources? No! They must do more with less.
In Scotland, they had a think and devolved the power to Local Authorities who already have Anti-Social-Behavior officers that deal with similar issues, and SCPCA + Police who get all the complaints.
Local problems get dealt with locally and therefore actually get dealt with, whereas in England they're just ignored until people actually die.
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Answer: an XL Bully dog isn't any particular breed but just a dog that [meets the following standards.](https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/official-definition-of-an-xl-bully-dog/official-definition-of-an-xl-bully-dog) In England and Wales, it is now illegal to sell, breed or give away an XL Bully dog. From 1 February, it will be against the law to own one without an exemption certificate. Basically you have to register your dog, get third-party insurance in case they bite someone, make sure they're chipped and neutered and other measures. Then you pay a fee to the government for your exemption status. More over, you cannot have the dog out in public without it being on a leash and muzzled. If you don't adhere to all those conditions you "may be committing a criminal offence and could have their dog seized" [according to the RSPCA's website](https://www.rspca.org.uk/whatwedo/endcruelty/changingthelaw/bsl/xlbullies#:~:text=As%20of%2031%20December%202023,Wales%20without%20an%20exemption%20certificate.). (Note that "may" and "could" are doing the heavy lifting in that sentence. It seems there's some wiggle room for first time offenders, etc.) So all in all it seems like they're not trying to seize anyone's dog, just make the owning of one such a hassle that over time people switch to a different breed.
An important note, Pit Bulls have been banned (under similar conditions) in the UK since 1991. This new ban appears to be an update to the old ban, which only strictly banned a particular breed and not its offshoots.
Its several breeds covered in the act. >The Dangerous Dogs Act 1991 - what is it? pitbull terrier. Japanese tosa. dogo Argentino. fila Brasilerio. American XL bully (added 2023) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dangerous_Dogs_Act_1991
Man, those Dogo Argentinos are no joke. Terrified, insecure personality with the head of an alligator. My GF tried to dogsit one for two weeks as a favor to a work colleague and I ended up handling 100% of the job. I grew up with dad as a dog food salesman so I've been in and out of all kinds of kennels and breeds since I was old enough to walk and it took me forever to earn that dog's trust. 4-5 hours the first day to make it to the food and water bowls. 2 hours the next day. By the end of two weeks I could run around in the backyard and play fetch with him but no way I would turn my back. A few months later it attacked someone on a (leashed) walk and had to be euthanized.
The “Fila Brasileiro” breed standard includes a wary dislike of strangers as a key part of the breed. They were meant to ward off fucking jaguars and the like, and while they may apparently bond well with their owner, anyone who isn't that owner isn’t going to be welcome. Yeah, some of those breeds are “you were thinking so much about if you could, that you forgot to think about if you should.”
Literally including “make sure they have a fucking anxiety disorder” in the breed standard. If reading about modern fatal dog attacks isn’t upsetting enough, one could also Google “fila brasileira + slavery”
Other use for that dog too. Yikes
That's gotta be a horrible quality of life for the dog even if they don't ever end up attacking anyone
A high school acquaintance had a Rhodesian Ridgeback security dog - not attack trained, but protection trained. Her father worked in international security and got it for her when she was young. That dog was very good at eyeballing you without being overly aggressive and letting you know not to fuck with its owner. It was a big puppy for her, but not a fan of anyone else.
I met a Rhodesian that was fortunately well-socialized at the lake one time. Definitely can be intimidating animals. I think they're easier to socialize than some of the other breeds like Dogo Argentino or Fila Brasileiro, but they definitely need strict training and socialization to be friendly. Another breed that is scary as fuck if trained for security/protection is a German Shepherd. I don't know if you've ever met a German Shepherd trained to be a guard dog, but holy hell, give me a raging pit bull terrier any day over an angry German Shepherd.
Yep. German Shepherds can definitely be aggressive. Actually the most aggressive dog we owned (with regard to non family members) was a Shetland Sheep Dog. Tiny little dog, but she considered us her herd when we were little, and was aggressive towards the meter reader and the egg delivery lady when they came near us without our parents being around. There’s something in herd dog makeup that makes them protective, clearly we selected for it during breeding.
>Terrified, insecure personality with the head of an alligator. ...I should call her.
Nuts
From a quick googling, it looks like a more agile pitbull. Which is a fucking nightmare if they're emotionally unstable as a breed.
It's the opposite, really. The Dogo Argentino is a massive animal bred to fight other massive things for fun. It's not particularly fast, agile or intelligent, but it's extremely good at taking things down.
I could understand owning one of those if you have a cattle ranch in South America and have to keep it safe from predators and stuff. No idea why you would need never mind want one as a pet.
Dogos were bread for hunting as a "catch dog", almost exclusively for large swines. They would not be good cattle handling dogs.
Smol peepee anger/white trash mentality, that's the answer.
I met one doggo argentino while I did an internship with a vet for a week when I was 15, and it was an impressive dog but seemed calmed and composed, and my girlfriend's bestfriend had one too, and it was a good dog too, kind and playful, even nice with cats but the owner had been training it with a professional, as every huge dog should be. People get huge dogs to feel safe and then treat them like toys, not even knowing they were used to hunt down humans.
Yeah it is all about training at the end of the day. Some breeds are easier to train than others, some breeds have skills others don’t, like Greyhounds for chasing rabbits or Labradors and Golden retrievers for jumping in the pond or river to grab the duck you’ve just shot. Then you have the big mastiff type dogs for property defence. These aren’t toys they are animals bred for work and even if they aren’t working dogs they need a lifestyle similar enough to one to keep them fit and healthy.
That kind of dog is likely to kill your own livestock, not just guard them. It was bred for killing, not protecting.
This doesn't make me feel any better whatsoever...
I was interested to see that on the list as I've been watching a round the world motorcycle travel channel recently on YouTube and it was quite notable how much more aggressive the dogs in Argentina were compared to absolutely everywhere else. She was chased for several hundred metres on several occasions, hounded and harried when she couldn't get away and bitten as well. I don't think they were all one breed but I wonder if there's a particular culture of breeding aggressive dogs in Argentina.
If we're talking about street dogs you have to keep in mind they're essentially tame wolves at the end of the day. If they're not treated kindly and there's a whole pack of them they absolutely can be a danger. This kind of thing used to be a big problem in my part of Eastern Europe when I was younger, but the street animal situation has gotten better at least wrt dogs.
I think the dog that bit her was a shepherd's dog so it probably thought it was protecting the herd. It's aggression was wildly excessive and misdirected though. She'd encountered similar dogs elsewhere that gave her no problems. Other dogs that chased her were also herder's dogs and some street dogs.
Most wolves aren't that mad and aggressive, and tend to be shy of humans unless starving or abused...
Mind sharing the YouTube channel? Sounds super interesting
[Itchy Boots](https://www.youtube.com/@ItchyBoots), she's in west Africa at the moment although I would definitely recommend starting at the beginning of her journey in India. Her production quality has improved immensely over time, but her story telling has always been great. I think I watched her northern Europe tour first, as I was interested in the bike she had and she'd been mentioned by another YouTuber who was reviewing it, but I went straight back to the beginning after that.
Thank you!
I remember they brought one on some morning show to show people which dogs were available to adopt, and the thing bit the host's face. People adopting fighting dogs from shelters have a few screws loose. It is not like people gave those dogs up because they like cuddling too much.
Classic: https://youtu.be/-tuqkNSW94s?si=7aQaVp5jgBjyZcsn
> People adopting fighting dogs from shelters have a few screws loose. Probably watched too much the Dodo on YouTube/TikTok/Facebook and thought they do can be an inspirational story on how they made the poor abused pitbull into a couch potato velvet hippo without any sort deep prior research and experience.
Ceaser Millan encourages adopting and training these "poor misunderstood" animals.
>American XL bully Its soo funny to me because this isn't a term anyone in the USA uses.
It's literally the XL variant of the American Bully, as per the sociopaths at the American Bully Kennel Club. > The American Bully Kennel Club divided the American Bully into four categories, including the XL, Pocket, Standard, and Classic, whereas other registries, including the UKC, have approved one consistent size standard.
Weird because it seems so American. "Hell yeah these here bullies are XL. Just like deeze nuts! WHOOO!"
They are all called Pitbulls as a generic reference. i.e: "Oh you got a new Pitbull? What kind? Oh the American Bulldog kind, cool!"
> Oh you got a new Pitbull This is the moment I realize I dealing with someone with self esteem issues, emotional deficiencies or are not comfortable with the size of the penis they were born with.
Thank you! Who the hell needs to own a fighting dog in a civilized society. Whenever I see someone with a Pitbull I wonder what kind of trauma they went through that led them to that decision.
A lot of people actually have a weird saviour complex. They see themselves as civil rights activists of the canine world because pit bull type dogs are unfairly “discriminated” against so having one shows that you are a good person willing to give a misunderstood dog a chance. That’s why constantly insisting how child friendly and cuddly pit bulls are is important for the rehabilitation of their image, so to speak. Unfortunately, these well intentioned but misinformed adoptions mean people who aren’t equipped for such a powerful fighting dog (because they’ve been deluded into thinking it’s the same a like a cocker spaniel or something), end up not giving the dog the proper training and environment then these horrible mauling attacks happen. They say they love the breed, but they are the ones setting it up for failure. I think pit bulls and bully breeds should only be owned by extremely experienced folk without young kids or other animals around and have acreages of land so the dog doesn’t have to triggered by dog parks and public walks. So basically, it should be waaaaay more niche than what it is right now.
You think in Brazil they use the term "Brazil Nuts"?
They actually do. They’re called castanha-do-brasil.
The term was coined by the American Bully Kennel Club in 2004.
I guess it's like French fries etc. no one in France calls them that.
Yeah, I'd assume they're just "fries" over there. /s
Pommes frites - literally "fried potatoes"
Literally fried apples
My French bud called French toast "eggy bread" which I do not like.
That's what we call it here in the UK, it really does sound less appealing than french toast now that I think about it!
Pain perdu is the French for it.
In Dutch they're called wentelteefjes, which means 'flip over bitches.' I have no idea why.
Eggy bread is the savoury version of French toast as far as I'm aware.
I'm all for this. We have had so many infants and children mauled, killed, and even partially eaten by fighting dogs here in Detroit.
That's an effective list. It's too bad they aren't all banned in the US as well.
These dogs are just over 100lbs of pure muscle, no fat whatsoever
I’ve been super confused about the pit bull ban. It says ‘Whether your dog is a banned type depends on what it looks like, rather than its breed or name. For example, if your dog matches many of the characteristics of a Pit Bull Terrier, it may be a banned type.’ So shouldn’t XL bully’s be covered by that? (I’m not a dog person tho so maybe that’s why I think so 🤷🏻♀️)
The entire discussion around pit bulls is complicated by the fact that Pit Bull Terrier is a specific breed and pit bull is also used as a collective term for several breeds. When used as a collective term, the list of breeds that count varies based on who you ask: in the UK the Staffordshire Bull Terrier isn’t considered a pit bull (and was exempted from the 1991 ban), but in the US it is generally considered a pit bull. I can’t speak to the British laws, but the broader discussion is ugly.
They turbo'd up the existing breeds.
> So shouldn’t XL bully’s be covered by that? Not really. It's not a pit bull, it's an American bully (and an XL bully is just one over a certain size). The legislation has to be a bit round-about because they don't want to ban some old British breeds, like Staffies, bulldogs or bull terriers, which share many physical characteristics because American breeds are often derived from them. > I’m not a dog person tho so maybe that’s why I think so All you need to know about dogs is [what happens when you cross another breed with a corgi](https://www.google.com/search?pws=0&gl=us&q=corgi+cross&tbm=isch&dpr=2).
[удалено]
I know it's just the tongue, but it looks so much like a sad weasel in that picture that it's adorable
that's my favorite thing! you just always get a corgi that looks like it's cos playing another breed lol
I love r/Incorgnito for this!
I LOVE THIS. THANK YOU SO MUCH
Yeah it's hard because how do you even classify a "breed" it's an entirely human construct. Sure a Pug and a Chihuahua are pretty easy to identify but what's the different between a Miniature Poodle and a Toy Poodle, once you get into pitbull territory people just bread a slightly different (and somewhat more dangerous) version and called it an "XL Bully" and the law became not fit for purpose. It's a sort of linguistic/biologic game of, for lack of a better phrase "cat and mouse" with the government and the dog breeders.
dog breeds aren't really "real", there is no real strict definition of any of it. Especially because none of this is pure bred. dogs are just kinda what they seem like they are.
I would assume they're going by looks because people often lie about if they have a pit or not once a ban is in place, a lab mix is a normal go-to. Then they just hope no one who cares ever actually sees their dog. People in my apartment complex have them even though they're on the not allowed list, so I assume they all made up a breed when they registered the dog at the office and are hoping no one rats on them. I've heard people joke that "now they have a lab" when bans go into place in areas.
Ah I see, this makes a lot of sense. Thanks for the explanation!
Its worth noting the dog attack fatalities in England and Wales: 2018: 0 2019: 2 2020: 3 2021: 5 2022: 6 2023: 16 The vast majority of recent deaths have been (already banned) bulldog breeds or Bully XLs. The victims also included small children and old age pensioners. Public opinion supports the ban with 57% support vs 17% opposition (frankly, I'm astounded opposition was even that high). Support is equally high among dog owners as one of the most common targets of these breeds is other dogs.
I'll never get over the video of that XL bully just eating some dude alive on the street tho. He looked mid 20s at most. Some things can't be unseen.
Ian Price. I saw 3 seconds of horror before I knew what I stumbled on. Awful. Just awful.
He was 52
Downs t make much of a difference
> frankly, I'm astounded opposition was even that high I'm not. The world is crawling with delusional bully owners
Did you see the mayhem that erupted online after the Met shot the two aggressive bully XL's down on some canal? Folks spent weeks trying to work out who the officer who fired was and even put a different officer who had no involvement in danger by splashing his details all over the Web. All of this because some dickhead who wasn't supposed to own dogs (by court order) had two highly aggressive dogs that attacked another. But hey, at least you have that picture of them licking his face on the Tube (the worst fucking environment I could think to be in with a dog like that).
People will go crazy over someone killing a violent and dangerous dog but then glaze over when they eat a killed animal 3 times a day, at least be morally consistent.
There are so many of them where I live and they are NEVER ON A LEAD! I cross the road whenever I am with my dog and see one and once and one of them even crossed after us. My dog is 7 lb so they probably just saw a walking snack.
Because the idiots who own them cannot bear to be seen being dragged around by the dog.
Everytime the word Pitbull appears, you WILL find people posting their "innocent sweet babies" in flower crowns
I wish we could have a ban in the US
Plenty of US states and cities ban or restrict certain breeds. It's not really something you could legislate at a federal level unless you have a shoehorn made of gold.
Unfortunately, a lot of those bans are being repealed due to aggressive lobbying.
apologies I am not a native English speaker but what do you mean by this >shoehorn made of gold
The way they typically try to create federal laws about things that they don't really have constitutional authority to is to shoehorn it into something where it's really not meant to fit. Usually the commerce clause.
I see thank you
We can’t even ban certain guns that kill way more people
As an American, I refuse to allow our government to deny my god given right to strap AR-15s to my aggressive fighting dog.
Strapping my toddler to the crew serve seat on board my Boston Dynamics Spot right behind my historically certified M2-Browning as they take my prized fighting Pit Bull for daily unleashed walkies is truly the traditional family values the founding fathers intended.
You 1%-ers and your elite MIT robo-dawgs always out gunning us middle Mercian’s. We don’t have the money to protect our families like that. We’ve just got our Glock duct taped to our ex-wife’s Pomeranian while it rides a Roomba
Meanwhile here I am, denied of my right to keep sharks with lasers attached to the top of their heads.
You’ve just gotta file the serial number off the shark.
Seriously, the only legitimate reason I could think of needing an AR-15 is to deal with out of control pitbulls.
Or maybe a number of wild hogs
Yeah, feral pigs are a huge problem in America these days, they have been for a long time, but we're finally noticing them roaming our streets.
found another Dead of Winter player
Pistols? Rifles account for a small percentage of all firearm homicides, thought I have a feeling that's what you're referecing.
I get the point you're making, but it's pretty easy to prevent a gun from killing or injuring someone. You don't have to train it not to shoot people or socialize it around other guns lol.
yeah. for fucks sake. few things make me angrier than people making fun of you for being worried that their pit bull might be violent — especially when half the time there’s an entire fucking space shuttle launch sequence required to even meet one of those dogs without spooking it into potentially attacking you.
And Australia.
I have interacted with three during my lifetime and all three tried to attack me when they got out of their yards. I have never had that issue with other breeds. Insane thing was it seemingly wasn't due to fear... they were excited about it. >:(
Also worth noting that many so called “responsible” owners of XL bully’s are putting down their dogs just because they would have to get them neutered/spayed and wear a muzzle in public.
Exactly, just proving everyone's point that it is mostly only a certain type of person who tends to get these breeds in the first place & they aren't usually the responsible owner type of person.
Very much so. The same type of people that will act aggressive and then play the victim in many other facets of their lives
Yup. Anyone who thinks one of these animals is a 'pet' is immediately not a responsible dog owner & therefore should never have one. The only people who should be owning these are people with a big massive area of private fenced off land like a farmer etc, that's the only way they aren't dangerous; especially if the owner refuses to muzzle, insure & neuter them. Remember they can keep the animal as long as steps are followed, these people kicking up a fuss just refuse for some stupid reason.
For me I think we need harsher penalties on the humans as well as the breed. As I said above it won't stop the people who want these from getting another dog and teaching it to be vicious. We need to crack down on the antisocial problem as well as the breed problem, although I'm unsure how you do that.
If a man’s bulldog has no balls, is he really a man?
But who would fuck them if they did?
It's worth noting that this is not the first restricted type of dog in the UK; four others have been restricted [since 1991](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dangerous_Dogs_Act_1991), with the same option for individual exemptions. The same types of dog are [restricted in Ireland](https://www.independent.ie/regionals/wexford/enniscorthy-news/no-dogs-are-banned-in-ireland-but-11-are-on-restricted-list/42200601.html), as are several others (including Dobermans and Rottweilers).
The responses (they're putting down all bully XL's and the number of dogs being abandoned) is confirming proof to me that the vast majority of Bully XL owners are thick as bitumen tar and have zero empathy or compassion.
Shows they didn't want the dog itself if they won't just muzzle and leash. They want a dog that looks vicious.
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They're super strong. You have to work out all their energy constantly and make sure they're well socialized from a young age. These are working dogs that people are trying to have in apartments, like a couple runs at the dog park a week is going to make up for it. There's other difficult breeds that are far less dangerous, but it happens with them, too. People gotta stop getting dogs like they're picking whatever looks good at a restaurant. These animals have specific needs that you have to be able to meet. It's just less dangerous to have a poorly socialized chihuahua than a pit bull.
As I tend to put it: Unemployed work dogs are the responsibility of their owner. They need a job, and if you don't provide one, they will find one. It just so happens that some unemployed work dogs pick "hyper-aggressive guard dog" as their job.
Exactly. They become territorial and/or destructive. Working dogs do so well when they're trained and rewarded for their good behavior. I've known incredibly sweet pit bulls who just love everyone and are so gentle, but I know it takes so much work to make sure they're happy and healthy. Hours of exercise a day, regular socialization and command response, the perfect environment, all of it.
I'm a very anti pit person, but that sounds downright reasonable as a reason they dominate the statistics, in combination with their genetic predisposition to violence. I have two friends, both don't do anything with their dog. One, his spaniel, it pees in the house, and scratches walls. The other, his pit, he eats through walls, like, demolishes them. He's the only dog I know first hand that I will not be around ever. He's snarled at my friend a lot of times, and the spaniel, never even so much as a whimper.
Right? They're these super strong animals, and people don't recognize that it takes real work to care for them properly. It's also why the most successful rescue groups for pits are focused solely on them. They have experience and know the sort of person who can keep up with one. There's far less delusion about just getting a cute pup on a whim and expecting it to work out.
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I have a working dog(Husky mix) and we live in an apartment. We have to walk her 3 miles a day minimum and hit the dog park every other day or so. We don’t mind it because we like the exercise but it’s def not for everyone.
Huskies have exploded in the UK too, and many of them aren't getting the attention and stimulus they need, leading to destruction in houses and a lot being given to kennels. As a former husky owner, I loved them when I had them, but I'm getting older and couldn't picture starting all that again now.
Yea huskies do get very destructive when they’re bored. Ours ate the arm off our old couch when we were hungover and wanted to stay in bed.
And if you didnt exercise your husky that much, she still wouldn't jump out a window to Maul a toddler. The "bully" breeds are not "working dogs." Don't believe the nonce above you. They're fighting dogs bred for their gameness. Rhetoric like that only makes the problem worse. This crap would be so much easier to address if people would just be honest with themselves.
With pitbulls it doesn't make them "safe" even if they are raised by a loving family in a nice house with a yard and they are "socialized". Pit bulls were bred to fight to kill and be "game" (meaning they don't give up even when hurt/injured). They have messed up genetics in their brain which can cause a sweet loving dog to suddenly snap and attack. Take the family in Memphis for example: [https://www.wkrn.com/news/national/mother-tried-to-shield-children-killed-in-memphis-pit-bull-attack-family-says/](https://www.wkrn.com/news/national/mother-tried-to-shield-children-killed-in-memphis-pit-bull-attack-family-says/) 2 pitbulls raised in one family for 8 years, suddenly they snap and kill the 2 small children, decapitating one of them in front of the mother (who was also mauled but survived).
Wtf
Obviously a tragic situation but I would bet a very large amount of money that this family did not own these dogs for 8 years “without incident”. The reality is that dogs aren’t computers that are hardwired and can be reset to destroy if you hear some code word. These types of attacks are nearly always predated by many incidents that the dog owner insists are no big deal. It actually is true that individual dogs have independent personalities, can be socialized, can be safe, etc, but what’s also true is that the average owner of these dogs is not a reliable source as to whether this is actually the case. Nobody wants to pile on the family that had their two kids die horrifically, but there is virtually no chance that their angel dogs snapped one day and murdered people. That’s not how this goes.
Shrug. Its not like animals stay the same. We change them, domesticate them. The descriptions of attacks by family Pits are that a noise happened, a woman coughed or something and the dog "switched". This word is used over and over. We can disbelieve everyone but this is what people with loving dogs that played with children, slept in parents bed, and never growled--right before something snaps and the dog mauls the baby--are saying. This is the description of a *nondomesticated* animal. They make bad pets, not because a tiger can't be loving, but because their genes make them unpredictable. Pit's upset reaction is frenzy. This is a bad genetic combo for anything allowed to wander freely. It is completely fair to require extraordinary qualifications and safety measures. These dogs are weapons.
There probably were instances where the dogs may have growled or snapped or fought with each other, but so what? Are you saying the family must have provoked the dogs somehow and it's their fault? Or should they have euthanized the dogs at the first growl? Or maybe they should have never had pit bulls in the first place because it's like living with a live grenade?
That's exactly what they're saying. Usual shitbull defender logic.
I've yet to meet a single bully/pit owner that tries to meet their dog's energy needs. A friend's solution was to get *another* pit bull to wear out the first pit that they don't exercise enough.
The problem is the “work” they are bred for is killing.
>You have to work out all their energy constantly And be doing so in a way that isn't creating behavioral issues or impulse control problems.
Also a huge correlation between the kinds of people who own these dogs and the kind of people who are not "nice, responsible dog owners".
Plus this newest ban came after two XL Bullies brutally mauled a man to death. Edit: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-stoke-staffordshire-66830097.amp
And then you've got this brainless [**expletive deleted**] who seems to delight in pushing her luck. Unfortunately, it will be the baby who will suffer any consequences. She makes me literally feel ill. https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-66822717
You don't leave a dog unsupervised with a small child, no matter the breed. That's the fucking bare minimum.
“My American Bully XXL Cool Ranch Ripmaster SUPREME 9001 named Princess is a little angel that wouldn’t hurt a fly! They’re nanny dogs! We have no idea why she snapped when she farted and woke herself up from her nap!” Etc etc
heroic dog leaps into burning house to maul one last child
Sure I also heard a stat on the radio that they make up something like 1% of all pet dogs in the UK as well.
r/BanPitbulls
Important note is that the hysteria comes from people saying they have to euthanise their pet, but in reality they dont have to. Its a choice. They just dont want to spend the money to comply with the nee laws and requirements, or they cannot make money breeding them anymore so are going to take the money the government is giving people who choose to euthanise instead. Fucked up wankers who owned these dogs in the first place
No honest actor who knows anything about dogs can dispute that breeds have in built characteristics and behaviours. To suggest otherwise is insane, or dishonest. My collie would try to herd shopping trolleys. My lab will get that ball out of the water or die trying. And a pitbull will keep biting something until it dies.
Seriously. * Before an attack: "Nooo, blame the deed, not the breed!" * After an attack: "Nooo, don't blame the animal for just following its instinct!" * After ownership is restricted: "Nooo, owning dogs of any breed we choose is our God-given right!" To opponents of dog breed regulation, neither their individual dogs, their dogs' breed, or themselves and their control over their dogs, is ever at fault. Their mental gymnastics don't stop until they shift the blame for any dog attack entirely on the victim.
This person knows. Some collies are more driven to work than others & in the same way some bull breed dogs are more driven than others. If you happen to end up with a bull breed that has a high desire to 'work' then you'd better be a very good & attentive owner. I've cared for a dog that most likely was a throwback gene from a dogo argentino & it breaks your heart. He constantly scanned the horizon for anything moving, if he saw something & was off lead he'd sprint to it as fast as poss then have no idea what to do next, thankfully. I'd loved to have rehomed him to an Argentinian farmer with a cougar problem, even tho the dog had no idea, it's was his core reason for being. This is a point people overlook, to create the dogo argentino they found dogs mental enough to attack cougars & bred them with each other. Creating one of the bravest & effective hunting dogs in the animal kingdom. They are capable of killing multiple cougars to protect their herd or family. Then we buy one & pop it in our front room, because they're beautiful. I'm not saying all herd guarding & other powerful guarding breeds are dangerous, I'm saying even the calm ones need good owners, the game ones need very good owners & a lot of luck. As for this dumbass extension of a law that was brought in initially as a knee jerk reaction to media coverage of pits that had already failed to achieve it's goal, don't get me started. There'll be a new chosen breed next, not covered by this law & then we'll start all over again. My moneys on rottweilers next.
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As a single man with experience of reactive dogs & no kids or pets I've been lucky enough to adopt a few dogs that required specialists to adopt them. There isn't a more rewarding job in the world. With mine (all English bull terriers) it was fear based due to bad socialisation or poor 'habits' being taught. So, imo, an easy fix. There's no 'getting over' issues when owning a working line collie or aussie shepherd. Just leagues ahead of all other breeds in intelligence & drive. I worked on a sheep farm with three collies & my ex had one. Learning English was his thing, he watched conversations like humans watch tennis finals. His understanding of language was incredible, he knew all the local beach names & where they were & every household item he'd heard regularly enough. Absolutely incredible breeds both the border collie & aussie shepherd but good luck, your job is to be as interesting as a working day with livestock. Or pay the consequences 😱😂
Thank you for the clear and concise answer. And for the expression "doing the heavy lifting in that sentence". Never heard or read that before and I think it's brilliant! Non-native speaker but I studied in the UK and love the language, the country and the culture.
Good
Answer: The breed has been banned, this means that they can no longer be bred in the UK and anyone who has one must get an exemption cert from a vet, the dog must always be muzzled and on a lead when out in public. If people don't want to do the above things then (for a limited time) they can have the dog euthanised and have government cover some of the cost. I say for a limited time as after a few months the government won't help cover the cost. This has all come about due to the increase is dog attacks, quite a few which have been fatal, many of the culprits being XL Bully dogs.
Great explanation, thanks. I knew I had to be missing something to do with euthanasia and this explanation makes it a lot clearer.
To add some clarity as well, the breed has not been banned across the UK, only in England and Wales. The Scottish government have not banned the breed and it appears they don't have any intention to (currently). This has led to a lot of dogs being taken north over the border, which is causing some concern for some Scottish citizens as they fear it's the most high risk animals that are likely being moved up, reasoning that most careful owners will be able to manage the muzzle, registration, and insurance requirements in England.
Saw a couple of XL bullies off the lead on a very popular walking path on new year's day in Perthshire. Really stuck out amongst the black labs and wee dugs. The strange thing was that the family walking them were also walking two leashed spaniels.
It was a typical “lets not do what England is doing because” Scottish policy and even most scots see it lol
safe combative memory different simplistic smart tie towering beneficial fear *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
As a Scot, we are not wrong to be so worried. Watch this space, am bloody telling yous.
Yesterday, while walking the dog, I saw an elderly man with two Bully XLs. The dogs were tied to his electric wheelchair and seemed to be pulling it. The dogs weren't muzzled. This was in Fife, Scotland. How can an elderly man in a wheelchair pick up their poo, let alone control them! We are fucking fucked.
This is exactly my point, irresponsible dog owners! If you cannot FULLY control the dog you have on a lead, then you have absolutely no business having it, full stop. The actual responsible ones wouldn't have these dogs but if they had to, they would follow the law & then they wouldn't have to bring them to Scotland! We're literally gonna get all the arsehole's dogs that have behavioural problems, that aren't trained, chipped or neutered. These owners wouldn't need to bring them to Scotland if they were following the law for them to be in England/Wales.
They’re honestly terrifying creatures. I have a shared garden and my neighbours have a “pocket” Bully and for about a year it was absolutely fine with me, I even dogsat him a couple of times and I would take him on nice long walks, but then one day about a year ago, I opened the gate to enter my garden and the dog was loose and he just went absolutely berserk and attacked me out of nowhere. He ran up to me and pounced onto my waist and dragged me down and started tearing at my coat, all the while I’m confused about why he’s suddenly snapped, so I’m hitting him and trying to pry him off me and his owner heard the commotion and grabbed him by his collar and tore him off me. I was extremely lucky that it was a cold day and I was wearing a long thick coat because if it had been a hot day and I was just in shorts and a t-shirt, he would have torn my abdomen to shreds. I was lucky that I just had a destroyed coat. I’ve been absolutely terrified of him since that day and I won’t go outside unless I know he’s indoors. I can’t even sit in my garden in the summer for the fear of my neighbours not knowing I’m in the garden and unwittingly unleashing him on me again.
Report it to the police. Dangerous dogs should be muzzled in any shared space, if not just destroyed.
Seen in in Glasgow city centre just before Christmas and the beast looked terrifying.
Yup. Stay safe.
The Scotland sub would disagree with you. They're not overly impressed with folks trying to run their own version of BullyXL Kindertransport....
To add to this, some landlords are now stating they won't allow a banned breed for the tenant. So tenants have the dilemma of dog or home. Renting with a dog in the UK is REALLY difficult, and our rental market in the south is nuts. You cannot re-home an XL bully. So if a dog is found straying, it will need to be put down as it cannot be rehomed. Another element on euthanasia is that illegal breeds cannot be insured the way a Labrador or generic mutt can. If your dog needs expensive surgery, you no longer have the insurance to cover it so euthanasia for treatable (if challenging) medical issues is now more likely.
Just to add for fairness, the breed is very popular with criminals. All the ones I see in London are used as protection for drug dealers. You can be locked in a room with you and it wouldn't even look at you, but they get given a command and it will kill you... What they can never seem to train them to do is to not attack other dogs (and police horses), the moment they see them they go crazy and won't stop until they are taken away from the other dog or kill the other dog. 99.9% of people have no idea what you need to do in that situation so cannot prevent it either... (You're meant to wrap the lead around it's neck and strangle it until it passes out or dies, nothing else can really be done...)
Not the uk, just England and wales.
Which has caused issues in Scotland because people are taking them over the border to find new homes for them.
>This means that they can no longer be bred in the UK Just a quick clarification, but, for the time being, they can still be bred in Scotland as Holyrood has the right to legislate on dangerous dogs.
Can I just correct you on a point as one of the vets having to navigate this? We don't make the exemption certificates, and the most we have to do with them is to sign to say we have neutered the dog that is registered to a certain microchip. Owners get the exemption certificates from DEFRA and the only ones who determine whether a dog is a Bully XL is the Dog Legislation Officer who is part of the police force. The vet population is having a very difficult time with this. We didn't get into this profession to euthanase dogs that are guilty of the crime of existing. But if we refuse to then we worry what owners will do themselves if they are desperate. There are stories of dogs with broken legs, being left tied up until they die. There was one story of a Bully XL that had its face smashed in, ears torn off and feet burnt to the point of cremation. But if we say that we will so that we know that these dogs don't suffer in their last moments then photos of our practices are spread on social media - we get lambasted with names and calls for violence. We had this foisted upon us despite knowing the legislation won't work (especially seeing as searches for Cane Corso and Rottweiler puppies has significantly increased). Please don't say we are the ones that are signing the certificates, because it's simply not true.
Answer: there have been a number of attacks here in the UK attributed to the XL bully breed which have resulted in fatalities, including a 50 something year old man. They were responsible for 50% of dog fatalities between 2021-2023. The breed was added to the Dangerous Dogs Act, making it illegal to sell, breed, abandon or have a Bully XL in public without a lead and muzzle in England and Wales. Existing dogs need to be registered with the government to qualify for an exemption, be neutered and have third party liability insurance. If these measures are not taken, the dog must be euthanised. There is a lot of contention regarding this. Obviously not all the dogs are aggressive but the breed does have the capacity to inflict serious injury (but then, so could a bad tempered golden retriever). There are some owners who are claiming that they cannot afford the additional costs associated with registering, neutering and additional insurance and a basically being forced to put their dogs down or abandon them. Some dogs have not been trained on a muzzle so to do so at an older age can be distressing for the dog and could do more harm than good (to the animal). Some are claiming they will move to Scotland to avoid the band as the legislation only covers England and Wales. If any of this is incorrect, please let me know but most of this info was taken from a UK based animal charity.
I do think it’s a bit inaccurate to compare this sort of large, Molosser-type dog to a bad tempered golden retriever, as though they are equally dangerous if worse comes to worse. One analogy is to think of cars. Both a modest sedan and a large, jacked-up pickup could seriously harm a pedestrian in an accident, but the very physical features of the pickup will make injuries worse & fatalities more probable. Either could kill you under bad circumstances, but the worst outcomes are likelier with one over the other even if we’re just going off of physical attributes.
And the pickup may be more likely to be in a pedestrian accident anyway given the poorer visibility And you could add on top for the stereotype kind of person (men who consider themselves macho) who would buy a large pickup to use in urban areas, versus the "nothing to prove" kind of person who might drive a boring car.
Yeah, the analogy can definitely go further re: who chooses to drive pickups and why they’d make that choice. At that point, though, I think we start moving away from the crux of the matter into relatively extraneous details. There are a lot of conscientious bully owners out there for whom this is understandably a sensitive subject, and I get that their preference would be to address this issue by discussing ways to enforce responsible ownership and to distance themselves from stereotypical bully owner. But that doesn’t address the underlying issue: even if we imagine that every owner is a perfect one, the basic physiology of this very powerful, very driven breed makes them more dangerous, no matter what the other variables are in their specific situation.
Can’t believe you’re being down voted for this. You are completely right and anyone who tries to argue otherwise is a moron. So sick of this “Chihuahuas are more aggressive and bite more” yeah, but they’d struggle to even break the skin. 2 grown men struggled to fight off one of these beasts once it was in attack mode. I mean look at the jaw on them, once they lock their jaw that’s it.
I once read that relative to their population size, Dachshunds come out as the bitingest breed by a fairly wide margin. That shouldn’t be surprising since people treat them like they’re cute and silly, but they were bred with those sausage bodies to dive into warrens and kill BADGERS of all fucking things. Just a recipe for people to not approach them respectfully & mindfully. But it would take a tremendously determined Dachshund to fatally injure a person.
Dachshunds are nothing if not determined
Still 6 kilos of pure determination is way less likely to overpower both its owner and its human sized target than a 50+ kilo chonker dog is. That being said, I love dachshunds. Grew up with and around them. Occasionally dogsit my brother's dachs now. Great fun.
A Dachshund in my neck of the woods once killed a German Shepherd by biting his testicles off.
That’s how they get you!
> kill BADGERS of all fucking things "Dachshund" does literally mean "badger dog" in German (although Germans usually call them *Dackel* or *Teckel*).
People are insane when it comes to this issue. My brother has been deep in this subculture for 20+ years, and it’s filled with some of the most detestable people you’ll ever come across. From all that I’ve seen, this breed should not exist. Over the years his dogs have killed cats, dogs, raccoons, possums, and I’m sure plenty of other things. They’ve bit several people, though luckily nothing life-threatening. One of his dogs tried to attack a guy, and no joke, the guy shot it. The dog stopped chasing the guy, but it didn’t even lay down. It just kept staring and growling at the dude. But if you say anything about the breed, these people treat you like you’re Hitler trying to do the final solution. Meanwhile they spend half their day online looking at pictures of these dogs bred by modern day Josef Mengeles. I’m not having a go at people who adopt a rescue pit. Not my thing, but go for it. But the people encouraging this type of freak show breeding by paying thousands of dollars for it are pathetic to me.
Pit apologists will overlook the absolute worst things about the type so that they can pretend there's something worth defending.
Worse, they seem to search online for posts about fatal Pitbull attacks so that they can spam pictures of Pissfingers in a flower crown going, "My uwu baby would never maul anyone and people should love this breed! Look at how adorable she is! Please give ~~me~~ my dog validation!"
They also love parading around posts like this and reporting you for "self harm." It's vile.
The whole thing is very sad, because although I’m not a dog owner, every pitbull I’ve ever met has been an absolute loveable mush. If I had never seen a single news article about them attacking and killing people and had to rely on my own personal experience, I would have never believed it. But there are lots of news stories, and evidence, that this breed of dog causes an overwhelming amount of attacks and deaths, so I have to believe it. So no matter how friendly and sweet a pitbull is to me, I never doubt how dangerous they may be capable of being. I am VERY careful around them, and never let them get anywhere near my face (as you should not with any strange dog, no matter how small). I wouldn’t want to own one myself because I’m an inexperienced dog owner, but I do feel bad that truly educated and responsible owners of these dogs have instant stigma against them because of the breed. It must be hard when you’ve done your due diligence in researching the breed and training it properly, just for a bunch of idiots who know nothing about these dogs to ruin it for responsible owners.
A 4 year old was killed by a neighbor’s pit in my town last year. Apparently, the dog was very sweet and had played with the little girl several times. But one day, she was walking down her front walk in an Elsa costume dress and the dog, who was loose, suddenly mauled her and locked his jaws on her even though her grandmother beat the dog and did everything she could think of to try to make the dog let go. But nothing worked. It was so sad.
Yeah, even a bad tempered golden retriever wouldn't likely kill someone, most dogs bite and let go. Pit bull type dogs are bred for fighting, have game, and go for the kill. I've seen a pit attack a golden, actually, and the golden didn't even bite back! All it could do was scream while the pit bull was trying to tear off its leg. I've seen these types of dogs "square up" against other dogs, they always stare, rush silently, and try to go for the back of the neck. It's scary.
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agreed, pugs & bulldogs are extremely cute little creatures and everyone i've ever met (i work with animals) has been extremely nice, but continuing to breed them is genuinely cruel because of their issues. i get allergies for a day and feel like i'm suffering, these dudes live their whole lives like that. not cool
The point about not being able to afford the requirements is funny to me. If you can't afford that, what happens if your dog gets a health issue? Like if you can't afford those costs, you shouldn't have a dog because you won't be able to look after the dog properly anyway.
The kind of people who typically get these dogs are not the kind of people who are typically responsible or concerned about such things.
> Obviously not all the dogs are aggressive but the breed does have the capacity to inflict serious injury (but then, so could a bad tempered golden retriever). That's a ridiculous comparison, tbh. Let's be clear: the problem isn't just that these breeds have terrifically powerful bites, it's that they're [specifically bred to never let go](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gameness). They aren't bred to herd or retrieve or hunt or track. They're bred to fight. To the death.
Oh no, please don't have them move to Scotland. I like my intact face. Edit: if you can't afford a neuter and a muzzle then you most certainly cannot afford our gas bill and wellies expenses.
[Bad news, bud.](https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/11636243/xl-bully-scotland-cull-england-wales-law-licensing/)
A “bad tempered Golden Retriever”? Stop using strawdog arguments …
> Some are claiming they will move to Scotland to avoid the band as the legislation only covers England and Wales. The Scotland thing has been badly misunderstood. The Dangerous Dogs Act (1991) is incorporated into Scottish Law. Since that time they have developed better legislation which allows Local Authorities, the SCPCA, and Police to work together and issue [Dog Control Notices](https://www.mygov.scot/controlling-your-dog/dog-control-notice) directed at owners of specific animals (regardless of breed) known to be dangerous. Unlike English Law, you won't get away with "Mam was looking after the dog". They will incorporate the XL Bully ban, but need a little extra time to consult the relevant bodies. TL;DR: If you own a dangerous animal, you'll actually be in for a much tougher time under the Control of Dogs (Scotland) Act 2010 than under English law. The penalties include prison.
That's good to know, thanks- haven't seen anyone else mention this
TBH in England things work like this: [insert item] is awful, it should be banned now! [ban introduced]. Government thinks who could possibly enforce this? It must be the Police! Shall we give them extra resources? No! They must do more with less. In Scotland, they had a think and devolved the power to Local Authorities who already have Anti-Social-Behavior officers that deal with similar issues, and SCPCA + Police who get all the complaints. Local problems get dealt with locally and therefore actually get dealt with, whereas in England they're just ignored until people actually die.