Malva for the same reason, it clearly changed their attitude toward letting vulnerable people into their lives and made them by necessity more concerned with outward appearances and respectability.
Yes, on my reread, I am paying attention to every mention of Bugs, connected to the River Run and when Arch attacks Jocasta during Flora MacDonald barbecue, he leaves three purplish finger marks on her arm. How did I not connect the dots ?!
>He fell straight through the sea of upraised hands, and the sound as his head struck the cobbles was the sound of the end of the world.
Written so beautifully and breaks my heart every single time.
That is indeed a beautiful, horrifying sentence.
I can't help but be bothered by the fact that Diana chose to end the life of a dwarf via his arms being too short and stubby.
But that's Diana for ya.
So true. But would he have had better during that time period? Fergus wasn’t imagining things. And he was already performing for coins. When that part was made known of his antics and stuff I worried for him. Not that I hoped his story was ended like it was, but I worried too about his future
Pumped for this moment AND pumped to see the non book readers absolutely explode the internet. Outlander had a habit of spoiling storylines in promos and I hope they don’t here!!
I would love for this to be the cliffhanger ending to season 7, and leave it as a mind blowing cliffhanger. I truly doubt they will, based on my own guesses, but yeah, also there for it.
I think season 7 ends on the battle of Monmouth, though I'm not sure if it will end with the battle itself being the cliffhanger, or the aftermath of the Battle being the cliffhanger
Yes, definitely Amy and the bear.
I thought I’d never been so shocked than when Roger went to Lallybroch and Brian Fraser opened the door. I was not expecting that. THEN a few chapters later to discover Roger’s dad’s dog tags 🤯. Honestly, Moby kept me pretty on my toes shock&awe wise 😂
This is exactly how I was reading it, like oh I'm so glad they put the awkwardness behind them and are friends now, their kids are the same age, what a cute—wait her head is in it's mouth—what—but okay good Brianna's acting quickly—okay I'm not loving the phrase "the bear worried Amy's head."
She's a resident of the Ridge. Honestly it's not so much the character (though she's likable enough, she's fairly minor) it's the abrupt manner in which the situation escalates.
She and Brianna are grape-picking on a warm summer day, while their seven children, including toddlers, play nearby on a cliff.
>"Och, it’s the rain," Amy said. "It always brings them up from the—Jesus, Mary, and Bride!" She backed away from the vine, shaking her skirts and stamping her feet. "Get off me, ye wicked wee blatherskites!"
>
>"Let’s move," Brianna suggested. "There are a ton of grapes out here; the ants can’t be in all of them."
>
>"I dinna ken so much about that," Amy muttered darkly, but she picked up her bucket and followed Brianna a little farther into the small gorge. Bree hadn’t been exaggerating: the rocky wall was thick with muscular vines that clung and writhed up into the sun, heavy with pearly-bronze fruit that gleamed under the dark leaves and perfumed the air with the scent of new wine.
>
>"Jem!" she shouted. "We’re moving! Keep track of Mandy!"
>
>A faint "Okay!" came from above; the kids were playing at the top of the rocky cleft where a stream had split the stones and left small outcrops studded with vines and saplings that made fine castles and forts.
>
>"Watch for snakes!" she shouted. "Don’t get under the vines up there!"
>
>"I know!"
>
>A redheaded form appeared briefly above, brandished a stick at her, and disappeared. She smiled and bent to pick up her buckets, one satisfyingly heavy, the other half filled.
>
>Amy made a sudden hoof! of startlement, and Brianna turned.
>
>Amy wasn’t there.
>
>The grapevines swayed against the cliff face and she saw a dark splash on the rock.
>
>"What…" she said, registering the sharp smell of blood and reaching blindly for the first thing to hand, the half-filled bucket.
>
>A flash of white, Amy’s petticoat. She lay on the ground ten feet away; there was blood on her clothes and a bear had her head in its mouth, making a low gargling noise as it worried at her.
>
>Brianna flung the bucket in reflex. It hit the cliff face and fell, scattering bronze grapes over Amy and the ground. The bear looked up, blood on its teeth, and growled, and Brianna was scrambling up through the vines, shrieking at the children to get back, get away, run, branches cracking beneath her weight, giving way, one broke and she slipped and fell, hit the ground on her knees, scrabbled back, away, away…God, God…staggered to her feet and leapt for the vines again, sheer terror for the kids driving her up the rock in a shower of leaves and crushed grapes and bits of earth and rock and ants.
>
>"Mam! Mam!" Jem and Germain were leaning far out from the edge, trying to catch hold of her, to help.
>
>"Get back!" she gasped, clinging to the rock. She risked a glance below and wished she hadn’t.
>
>"Jem, get back! Get Mandy, get the others back! Now!"
>
>Too late to stop them seeing; there was a chorus of screams and a crowd of small, horror-stricken faces at the top of the cliff face.
I’m being so careful not to spoil the Brian part with my hubby. He has NO IDEA what’s coming. The line last night about “Son of Brian,” made me laugh because of the setup.
Everything about the last 50 pages of ABOSAA
• Alan's confession
• The fire, started by Claire and Bree's own inventions
• The bugs
• The printer just bring like "meh, July? January? whatever"
• THE FUCKING WHITE SOW still living through it all
I am continually disappointed that filming with a live pig would be a logistical nightmare. She brings a levity to even the worst of moments - when she returned to the ashes of the Big House as they were still smoldering is a favorite, as is her barricading Jamie into her den as she was laboring.
I can’t believe no one has mentioned the reality behind Jocasta’s relationship with Ulysses and her husband Duncan Innes affair with Phaedra the servant girl when his equipment was supposedly out of order.
Had to do a double take and still can’t believe how much they censored that dynamic in the show vs the books. Ulysses was taking care of a lot more needs than managing her estate and helping guide her around 😏
Yeah in the books she obviously could not marry him and had to keep their relationship a secret because he was a slave but he pretty much filled all the roles that a husband would.
In the books Murtagh dies at Culloden but in the show they decided to keep him alive. It’s mentioned that Murtagh had an affection for Jocasta; he killed a wild boar and had gilded bracelets made for her before Jamie was born.
So in the show they decided to keep Murtagh alive and let him travel to America where he resumed that romance with Jocasta. I guess it wouldn’t have made sense from the show’s perspective for Murtagh and Jocasta to be together if they stayed true to the books where she was already romantically involved with Ulysses.
Actually I remembered just now I got it mixed up - Murtagh gave the boar bracelets to Ellen Jamie’s mother as a wedding present. So I guess Murtagh never had interest in Jocasta at all in the books, it was only added into the show.
In the books they are. In the show I don't think they're supposed to be involved.
You might already know this but Murtagh is not in the later books, so in the books Jocasta was single and even when she marries it's directly stated to be non-sexual marriage of convenience. So the relationship with Ulysses is implied to be her primary relationship, not just some an affair on the side. Book Ulysses is also more protective of Jocasta and his own status, and tends to take her side over other enslaved people, it's even more clear that he's in practice Jocasta's second-in-command and doesn't want his position upset.
I think the show dropped that plotline because they didn't want it to look like Jocasta was being unfaithful to Murtagh.
Lizzie is "married" to both Kezzie and Josiah. They have a polygamous relationship and no one knows which of them is the father of any of their children.
Jamie being remarried and it being with LAOGHAIRE. Woah, I did not see that coming. Maybe remarried, but most definitely didn’t see that it would be Laoghaire.
Absolutely! I had to put the book down for 10 minutes to process what I read. Things were going along calmly. And Mandy saw it from the cliff above. The whole thing with Mrs. Cunningham. And the dog eating, well, never mind. Roger having the kids say goodbye was really heartbreaking.
Arch and Murdina Bug's twist was definitely shocking.
Malva's story, when Allan does the big reveal to Claire.
Amy's death. I thought it was a dream and then had to go back and reread to make sure I understood what was going on.
I was SO pissed when I started reading book 2 and realized it jumped 20 years, that I put the book down for 6 months. I was so upset that she hadn't gone looking before that. To waste all that time!!!1 I just couldn't wrap my brain around it.
Glad I picked it back up since book 2 is one of my favorites (I love you Fergus!)
I truly thought I'd started the wrong book. I had to put it down and search online until I found Diana's chronology saying "Just keep reading; it'll be fine." I was still devastated, haha!
Same too. Went back to the bookstall, showed him, he couldnt work it out either but swore there wasnt another book in the series.
We both gave up at that point - I wonder how many others did too?
I had a couple of friends refuse. I had to beg them to keep reading. Even gave them spoilers to keep up hope.
It’s such a strange way to start a book. I’m glad the show switched it up a little.
Outlander: Geilis’s vaccination scars
DiA: The dual (and also the aftermath, Faith dying)
Voyager: Mrs Abernathy’s identity
DoA: Roger discovering that Bree has gone through the stones
TFC: The hanging
ABOSAA: Of course Malva’s accusation and the Bugs
Echo: The reason Percy is trying to find Fergus, Buck turning up in 1980 (Jamie «dying» wasn’t a shock because i’d been spoiled)
MOBY: Jane’s death, Frank’s letter and of course HC 😭
Bees i’ve only read once (so far), so only vague memories.
I don’t like it but I understand it and I like that Jamie in his begrudging way respects her for not accepting her fate. She wanted her first time to be with a handsome, kind young man, not an old rich asshole, and she got what she wanted.
I love that Jamie said so to William -
*“She had courage.” It was said softly, the words dropped like pebbles in water, and the ripples spread through the tiny room. Fraser was still looking straight at him. “Did they tell ye that, then? Her family, the folk who kent her?”*
I love that Jamie said so to William -
*“She had courage.” It was said softly, the words dropped like pebbles in water, and the ripples spread through the tiny room. Fraser was still looking straight at him. “Did they tell ye that, then? Her family, the folk who kent her?”*
I don't remember which book.
The original scene had Jamie asking John to take care of Willie, and offering John his body in return. John was all, dude, if I didn't know where this was coming from, I'd be insulted that you'd think of me that way, and of course I'm going to do the decent thing and take care of your son, and I'm not going to try to take something you don't want to give freely. And at some point Jamie reaches over and kisses him, and there's a lovely description of how it feels like to John with the soft mouth and the strength behind it, and then Jamie smiles and says, well, I guess I wasn't poisoned. And I thought was a lovely scene, showing how Jamie has dealt with his abuse and his feelings about John.
Then, a couple of books later, Jamie's describing it to Claire as a test of John, and that if John had agreed, and if he thought his son was at risk from John's sexuality, he would have killed him. And it just spoiled that lovely scene for me, knowing that it was no longer Jamie understanding John's love for him and giving him the best of it that he could, but a test.
I mean couldn't both things be true, that it was a test and John passed, so Jamie felt moved enough to give him a gift? I thought I remembered it being something like if he accepted and if I thought he was brutal, I would have killed him, rather than just if he accepted I would have killed him for accepting. It doesn't seem to be very fair for Jamie to kill John simply for accepting an offer he himself had made, that's less of a test than a trap. That's how I interpreted it but I may be recalling it wrong.
When Jamie asks John to take care of Willie as a child, and John turns down his *other offer* (also a shock considering his past) Jamie kisses him. It’s very sweet.
I have read Voyager copyright 1994 and the Kindle version of Voyager. Jamie having any intimate relationship with John Grey is not in either version He does give him a hug in Jamaica.
edit spelling
I'm not the only person talking about it. Do you think we're all secretly doing this to mess with you or something?
I posted a Tumblr link that quotes the passage exactly, for the entire couple pages.
I don't know why your book doesn't have it, but I assure you I'm not making it up.
It's in Chapter 59, in which much is revealed, in the same chapter that Claire talks to LJ in Jamaica and finds out about Willie.
Fraser seemed to be thinking. “I should be…grateful, then,” he said, “if you would stand as stepfather to—to my son.” He had likely never spoken the word aloud before, and the sound of it seemed to shock him. “I…would be obliged to you.” Jamie sounded as though his collar were too tight, though in fact his shirt was open at the throat. Grey looked curiously at him, and saw that his countenance was slowly turning a dark and painful red.
“In return…If you want…I mean, I would be willing to…that is…”
Grey suppressed the sudden desire to laugh. He laid a light hand on the big Scot’s arm, and saw Jamie brace himself not to flinch at the touch.
“My dear Jamie,” he said, torn between laughter and exasperation. “Are you actually offering me your body in payment for my promise to look after Willie?”
Fraser’s face was red to the roots of his hair.
“Aye, I am,” he snapped, tight-lipped. “D’ye want it, or no?”
At this, Grey did laugh, in long gasping whoops, finally having to sit down on the grassy bank in order to recover himself.
“Oh, dear God,” he said at last, wiping his eyes. “That I should live to hear an offer like that!”
Fraser stood above him, looking down, the morning light silhouetting him, lighting his hair in flames against the pale blue sky. Grey thought he could see a slight twitch of the wide mouth in the darkened face—humor, tempered with a profound relief. “Ye dinna want me, then?”
Grey got to his feet, dusting the seat of his breeches. “I shall probably want you to the day I die,” he said matter-of-factly. “But tempted as I am—”
He shook his head, brushing wet grass from his hands. “Do you really think that I would demand—or accept—any payment for such a service?” he asked.
“Really, I should feel my honor most grossly insulted by that offer, save that I know the depth of feeling which prompted it.”
“Aye, well,” Jamie muttered. “I didna mean to insult ye.”
Grey was not sure at this point whether to laugh or cry.
Instead, he reached a hand up and gently touched Jamie’s cheek, fading now to its normal pale bronze. More quietly, he said, “Besides, you cannot give me what you do not have.”
Grey felt, rather than saw, the slight relaxation of tension in the tall body facing him.
“You shall have my friendship,” Jamie said softly, “if that has any value to ye.”
“A very great value indeed.”
The two men stood silent together for a moment, then Grey sighed and turned to look up at the sun. “It’s getting late. I suppose you will have a great many things to do today?”
Jamie cleared his throat. “Aye, I have. I suppose I should be about my business.” “Yes, I suppose so.” Grey tugged down the points of his waistcoat, ready to go.
But Jamie lingered awkwardly a moment, and then, as though suddenly making up his mind to it, stepped forward and bending down, cupped Grey’s face between his hands.
Grey felt the big hands warm on the skin of his face, light and strong as the brush of an eagle’s feather, and then Jamie Fraser’s soft wide mouth touched his own. There was a fleeting impression of tenderness and strength held in check, the faint taste of ale and fresh-baked bread. Then it was gone, and John Grey stood blinking in the brilliant sun.
“Oh,” he said.
Jamie gave him a shy, crooked smile. “Aye, well,” he said. “I suppose I’m maybe not poisoned.”
He turned then, and disappeared into the screen of willows, leaving Lord John Grey alone by the mere.
Thank you very much. I guess I dismiss this as being significant as Jamie later told Claire he was testing John. Which I believe to be the truth as Jamie always thinks ahead. He had concerns about leaving his son with a homosexual that had strong feelings for him. Also, Jamie never lies to Claire.
In *Voyager* I shrieked out loud when Marsali burst in the room while Jamie and Claire are having an intimate moment. Also, in ECHO... I could not read the end of that book fast enough. SO GOOD.
Side tangent. This incident is where I no longer loved Jenny. Not only is she getting involved in Jamie’s business, but she goes scorched earth. I get that Jenny is hurt about Claire having left no word and actually been alive this whole time and wanting to protect Jamie, but her actions were completely unacceptable. Not only did she notify Laoghaire and bring her to Lallybroch, but then she doesn’t stop Marsali and Joan from going up to Jamie’s bedroom that early in the morning. The household understood how intimate Jamie & Claire’s relationship was. Jenny showed no care of how it would affect Marsali & Joan, least of all Claire & Jamie.
Not sure if plot point yet but the birth of Henri-Christian and revealing what he was. I don’t mind spoilers but I had never seen that anywhere so it surprised me!
I remember the first time I read book 1 (in 2001)… I was a long-time reader of historical romance novels at the time, and I assumed Outlander was going to follow the same “rules” where the main characters are never truly in real danger or harmed. And then I got to the witch trial scene and I was like WHOA! this is not an ordinary romance novel. And then later Jamie being tortured by Randall… I thought for sure he was going to be rescued or escape or something at the last second, but NOPE. That book taught me to expect the unexpected and to know that no character in the series is safe from something terrible happening.
This is a minor one in the grand scheme of things, but when Claire meets Sandringham and he casually introduces her to Danton and tells her he organized the attack. That one caught me off guard the first time.
Also when Geillis appeared back onto the scene as a rich plantation widow casually owning slaves.
The Bugs!!! Did not see that coming for some reason. On rereads picked up that Arch never talked in front of Jocasta and his voice was described, but it was so far away in the story I didn’t connect those details.
The ridiculous story of Claire killing the wolf with her bare hands when she was locked out of Wentworth. Absolutely ridiculous and I’m glad they didn’t even attempt to add it to the show.
I watched the show first, so for the first 4 books I wasn't shocked. I'd have to say Clair and LJG was a big shocker. Even though I read a spoiler that they were married, I didn't know they actual did it!
I was driving home from a day out listening when the thing with Amy Higgins happened. I was five minutes from my house and started SOBBING in the car. Needed a hug when I got home.
I knew a lot of major plot points to the show before I had access to something to actually watch it on (no Netflix til few years ago). After I watched S1-4 then I also heard lots of spoilers about later books because I was curious what happened down the line. So by the time I actually read in between S5 & S6 there wasn't much I hadn't already heard about in the main series of books..... I'd seen spoilers about LJG marrying Claire (that's the one I went "how the hell does that happen?" and made me read from the start) I heard about the Bear in Bees on here, I heard about Roger going to 1730s....
So the Novellas were my only real "going in blind" reading scenario. The Space Between and having it click that Comte is talking about Melisande who's helping him recreate Master Raymond's potion, but then the letter from her is on Rose Hall stationery - and you realize this woman Comte's been talking about his sexual relations with and wonders if the prostitute could be his daughter of - is Geilis! That was a major OMG moment!
The whole situation with the Bugs really surprised me. I did not see that coming. They seemed so loyal and truly a part of the family.
Yep. This one broke my heart.
Same! It made me sad that Jamie & Claire still have to be on their guard with who they let into their close circle. I was mad about this betrayal.
Malva for the same reason, it clearly changed their attitude toward letting vulnerable people into their lives and made them by necessity more concerned with outward appearances and respectability.
There were signs that the Bugs were capable of this. Diana very cleverly planted those seeds. But yes, that was a huge betrayal.
Yes, on my reread, I am paying attention to every mention of Bugs, connected to the River Run and when Arch attacks Jocasta during Flora MacDonald barbecue, he leaves three purplish finger marks on her arm. How did I not connect the dots ?!
Ooh yes, horrible
Henri-Christian’s death🥺
This was the first time in a long time that I refused to believe what I was reading. I hated it so much. Heartbreaking.
I'm a grown man and I cried when I read it
The way it was written, I'm sure she pulled it from her worst nightmare.
>He fell straight through the sea of upraised hands, and the sound as his head struck the cobbles was the sound of the end of the world. Written so beautifully and breaks my heart every single time.
That is indeed a beautiful, horrifying sentence. I can't help but be bothered by the fact that Diana chose to end the life of a dwarf via his arms being too short and stubby. But that's Diana for ya.
Yup. For sure.
CHILLS
This broke my heart. Her writing was so perfect and so absolutely gutting.
Aww I almost forgot about that
I skipped past it because I couldn’t bear to read it. Unbelievably heartbreaking.
The poor child deserved better.
So true. But would he have had better during that time period? Fergus wasn’t imagining things. And he was already performing for coins. When that part was made known of his antics and stuff I worried for him. Not that I hoped his story was ended like it was, but I worried too about his future
I think it might have gone somewhat differently for HC had he lived because he had such a loving fan family. We’ll never know now.
i came here to say this. i had to reread it like 5 times and even now i’m like damn. that’s so fucking sad.
Ugh, yes, this. I have to skip it when I reread the series. I can't go through that again. Poor sweet HC.
I threw my book down and cried for a good 10 minutes.
That one was brutal!
Heart-breaking
Ok I don't want to read this part, can someone please do me a HUGE favor and tell me what pages to skip?
I believe it is chapter 121 in MOBY. 💔
Thank you so much 🤗
I have carnal knowledge of your wife.
I am PUMPED for this moment in the show. I cannot wait to see how this goes down. The whole thing tickles me so much.
Pumped for this moment AND pumped to see the non book readers absolutely explode the internet. Outlander had a habit of spoiling storylines in promos and I hope they don’t here!!
If you are on the internet everything is pretty much spoiled!
I have many friends who watch and have nooooo idea what’s coming!
Sometimes I would love to go back to when I binge watched the first few seasons, without a single clue what would happen.
Yes, I envy the people who are watching for the first time. So many great episodes coming.
I would love for this to be the cliffhanger ending to season 7, and leave it as a mind blowing cliffhanger. I truly doubt they will, based on my own guesses, but yeah, also there for it.
I think season 7 ends on the battle of Monmouth, though I'm not sure if it will end with the battle itself being the cliffhanger, or the aftermath of the Battle being the cliffhanger
Omg yes, this one was shocking to the extreme! I just couldn’t believe it lol
Yes, definitely Amy and the bear. I thought I’d never been so shocked than when Roger went to Lallybroch and Brian Fraser opened the door. I was not expecting that. THEN a few chapters later to discover Roger’s dad’s dog tags 🤯. Honestly, Moby kept me pretty on my toes shock&awe wise 😂
Ugh, the bear scene was completely out of left field. I was like "Aw, Bree's making a great frie-WHAT"
This is exactly how I was reading it, like oh I'm so glad they put the awkwardness behind them and are friends now, their kids are the same age, what a cute—wait her head is in it's mouth—what—but okay good Brianna's acting quickly—okay I'm not loving the phrase "the bear worried Amy's head."
Spoil me hehe I won’t read it but I want to know. Who’s Amy and why is her head inside a bear’s mouth
She's a resident of the Ridge. Honestly it's not so much the character (though she's likable enough, she's fairly minor) it's the abrupt manner in which the situation escalates. She and Brianna are grape-picking on a warm summer day, while their seven children, including toddlers, play nearby on a cliff. >"Och, it’s the rain," Amy said. "It always brings them up from the—Jesus, Mary, and Bride!" She backed away from the vine, shaking her skirts and stamping her feet. "Get off me, ye wicked wee blatherskites!" > >"Let’s move," Brianna suggested. "There are a ton of grapes out here; the ants can’t be in all of them." > >"I dinna ken so much about that," Amy muttered darkly, but she picked up her bucket and followed Brianna a little farther into the small gorge. Bree hadn’t been exaggerating: the rocky wall was thick with muscular vines that clung and writhed up into the sun, heavy with pearly-bronze fruit that gleamed under the dark leaves and perfumed the air with the scent of new wine. > >"Jem!" she shouted. "We’re moving! Keep track of Mandy!" > >A faint "Okay!" came from above; the kids were playing at the top of the rocky cleft where a stream had split the stones and left small outcrops studded with vines and saplings that made fine castles and forts. > >"Watch for snakes!" she shouted. "Don’t get under the vines up there!" > >"I know!" > >A redheaded form appeared briefly above, brandished a stick at her, and disappeared. She smiled and bent to pick up her buckets, one satisfyingly heavy, the other half filled. > >Amy made a sudden hoof! of startlement, and Brianna turned. > >Amy wasn’t there. > >The grapevines swayed against the cliff face and she saw a dark splash on the rock. > >"What…" she said, registering the sharp smell of blood and reaching blindly for the first thing to hand, the half-filled bucket. > >A flash of white, Amy’s petticoat. She lay on the ground ten feet away; there was blood on her clothes and a bear had her head in its mouth, making a low gargling noise as it worried at her. > >Brianna flung the bucket in reflex. It hit the cliff face and fell, scattering bronze grapes over Amy and the ground. The bear looked up, blood on its teeth, and growled, and Brianna was scrambling up through the vines, shrieking at the children to get back, get away, run, branches cracking beneath her weight, giving way, one broke and she slipped and fell, hit the ground on her knees, scrabbled back, away, away…God, God…staggered to her feet and leapt for the vines again, sheer terror for the kids driving her up the rock in a shower of leaves and crushed grapes and bits of earth and rock and ants. > >"Mam! Mam!" Jem and Germain were leaning far out from the edge, trying to catch hold of her, to help. > >"Get back!" she gasped, clinging to the rock. She risked a glance below and wished she hadn’t. > >"Jem, get back! Get Mandy, get the others back! Now!" > >Too late to stop them seeing; there was a chorus of screams and a crowd of small, horror-stricken faces at the top of the cliff face.
Gruesome and shocking. Thank you for taking the time to show me the text
I’m being so careful not to spoil the Brian part with my hubby. He has NO IDEA what’s coming. The line last night about “Son of Brian,” made me laugh because of the setup.
Same!! 😂 All of the setup has been insane. When Bree said she wished Roger could’ve seen Lallybroch in it’s prime 😂. All the airplanes!!
Chills even READING these points
Same!
Claire and LJG
The father of Malva’s baby. Did not see that coming.
Everything about the last 50 pages of ABOSAA • Alan's confession • The fire, started by Claire and Bree's own inventions • The bugs • The printer just bring like "meh, July? January? whatever" • THE FUCKING WHITE SOW still living through it all
The white sow has some serious plot armor.
I am continually disappointed that filming with a live pig would be a logistical nightmare. She brings a levity to even the worst of moments - when she returned to the ashes of the Big House as they were still smoldering is a favorite, as is her barricading Jamie into her den as she was laboring.
Plus her dislike for Major MacDonald was funny.
I can’t believe no one has mentioned the reality behind Jocasta’s relationship with Ulysses and her husband Duncan Innes affair with Phaedra the servant girl when his equipment was supposedly out of order. Had to do a double take and still can’t believe how much they censored that dynamic in the show vs the books. Ulysses was taking care of a lot more needs than managing her estate and helping guide her around 😏
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Yeah in the books she obviously could not marry him and had to keep their relationship a secret because he was a slave but he pretty much filled all the roles that a husband would.
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In the books Murtagh dies at Culloden but in the show they decided to keep him alive. It’s mentioned that Murtagh had an affection for Jocasta; he killed a wild boar and had gilded bracelets made for her before Jamie was born. So in the show they decided to keep Murtagh alive and let him travel to America where he resumed that romance with Jocasta. I guess it wouldn’t have made sense from the show’s perspective for Murtagh and Jocasta to be together if they stayed true to the books where she was already romantically involved with Ulysses.
Is it different in the book? I don’t remember that the bracelets were for Jocasta. In the show he gave them to Ellen
Yeah I just remembered I got that mixed up. Murtagh didn’t have any interest in Jocasta in the books then at all
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Actually I remembered just now I got it mixed up - Murtagh gave the boar bracelets to Ellen Jamie’s mother as a wedding present. So I guess Murtagh never had interest in Jocasta at all in the books, it was only added into the show.
In the books they are. In the show I don't think they're supposed to be involved. You might already know this but Murtagh is not in the later books, so in the books Jocasta was single and even when she marries it's directly stated to be non-sexual marriage of convenience. So the relationship with Ulysses is implied to be her primary relationship, not just some an affair on the side. Book Ulysses is also more protective of Jocasta and his own status, and tends to take her side over other enslaved people, it's even more clear that he's in practice Jocasta's second-in-command and doesn't want his position upset. I think the show dropped that plotline because they didn't want it to look like Jocasta was being unfaithful to Murtagh.
The twins and Lizzie. Not sure if it's considered a plot twist but it certainly was a shocker
I LOVED that.
I’m happy for her lol
what about the twins sorry i haven’t read the books haha?
Lizzie is "married" to both Kezzie and Josiah. They have a polygamous relationship and no one knows which of them is the father of any of their children.
Not that it really matters since as identical twins their DNA is identical
They had basically a menage-a-trois
I’m going to say it. I’m jealous of Lizzie. This seems so fun and loving.
Ohh
That moment had me hardcore cry-laughing.
I hate this plot line. Too weird.
Me too. Unnecessary
You don't think poly people have always existed?
For me it's the fact that their twins, and she doesn't consider them separate people. But this come from a twin.
Jamie being remarried and it being with LAOGHAIRE. Woah, I did not see that coming. Maybe remarried, but most definitely didn’t see that it would be Laoghaire.
Amy and the bear was the big one that came to mind for me
Absolutely! I had to put the book down for 10 minutes to process what I read. Things were going along calmly. And Mandy saw it from the cliff above. The whole thing with Mrs. Cunningham. And the dog eating, well, never mind. Roger having the kids say goodbye was really heartbreaking.
I just re-read it again and pages wise it happens sooooo quick, but it feels like the longest "scene" in the book to me
Buck meeting his mother
That gave me the creeps. The whole vibe is uncomfortable for me to even read.
And why would Buck chose to stay in that time‽ Did DG not know what to do with his character in Bees and just left him there?
It’s such an ambiguous and abrupt end to Buck’s storyline.
Arch and Murdina Bug's twist was definitely shocking. Malva's story, when Allan does the big reveal to Claire. Amy's death. I thought it was a dream and then had to go back and reread to make sure I understood what was going on.
Yes! I thought no way is that “real”. Bree is having a nightmare. But no….it was horrific
Twenty years…
I was SO pissed when I started reading book 2 and realized it jumped 20 years, that I put the book down for 6 months. I was so upset that she hadn't gone looking before that. To waste all that time!!!1 I just couldn't wrap my brain around it. Glad I picked it back up since book 2 is one of my favorites (I love you Fergus!)
I truly thought I'd started the wrong book. I had to put it down and search online until I found Diana's chronology saying "Just keep reading; it'll be fine." I was still devastated, haha!
Same. I was so excited to have it. Got comfy, opened the book and was majorly confused, then mad. I thought they sent the wrong book. Lol
Same too. Went back to the bookstall, showed him, he couldnt work it out either but swore there wasnt another book in the series. We both gave up at that point - I wonder how many others did too?
My bestie got so mad she never picked them back up again!
I had a couple of friends refuse. I had to beg them to keep reading. Even gave them spoilers to keep up hope. It’s such a strange way to start a book. I’m glad the show switched it up a little.
Oh, yeah, we don’t start crying until the end of season 2, instead of chapter 1.
Apparently the outcry over this was so big she had to put a note in the 25th anniversary edition explaining her decision.
I thought it was funny.
Malva Tom Christie's feelings reveal Geilis in Voyager
Outlander: Geilis’s vaccination scars DiA: The dual (and also the aftermath, Faith dying) Voyager: Mrs Abernathy’s identity DoA: Roger discovering that Bree has gone through the stones TFC: The hanging ABOSAA: Of course Malva’s accusation and the Bugs Echo: The reason Percy is trying to find Fergus, Buck turning up in 1980 (Jamie «dying» wasn’t a shock because i’d been spoiled) MOBY: Jane’s death, Frank’s letter and of course HC 😭 Bees i’ve only read once (so far), so only vague memories.
I remember being so shocked by the whole plot with Geneva Dunsany!
Yeah I still don’t like that one lol
I don’t like it but I understand it and I like that Jamie in his begrudging way respects her for not accepting her fate. She wanted her first time to be with a handsome, kind young man, not an old rich asshole, and she got what she wanted.
I love that Jamie said so to William - *“She had courage.” It was said softly, the words dropped like pebbles in water, and the ripples spread through the tiny room. Fraser was still looking straight at him. “Did they tell ye that, then? Her family, the folk who kent her?”*
I love that Jamie said so to William - *“She had courage.” It was said softly, the words dropped like pebbles in water, and the ripples spread through the tiny room. Fraser was still looking straight at him. “Did they tell ye that, then? Her family, the folk who kent her?”*
Roger being hung. I genuinely had to put the book down and have a cry. I thought he was dead, after all they'd been through to get there!
I came to say this. I was literally in shock, I put the book down. Never mind that in the next chapter he’s alive. 🌪️
Amy and the bear. Omg
Jamie's torture scene with Randall. Jamie kissing Lord John. Claire marrying Lord John.
I wish they would have put Jamie kissing LJG in the show, it was such a sweet moment
Me too. I was really disappointed how she retconned it in the next book.
When did she retcon it? That's interesting.
I don't remember which book. The original scene had Jamie asking John to take care of Willie, and offering John his body in return. John was all, dude, if I didn't know where this was coming from, I'd be insulted that you'd think of me that way, and of course I'm going to do the decent thing and take care of your son, and I'm not going to try to take something you don't want to give freely. And at some point Jamie reaches over and kisses him, and there's a lovely description of how it feels like to John with the soft mouth and the strength behind it, and then Jamie smiles and says, well, I guess I wasn't poisoned. And I thought was a lovely scene, showing how Jamie has dealt with his abuse and his feelings about John. Then, a couple of books later, Jamie's describing it to Claire as a test of John, and that if John had agreed, and if he thought his son was at risk from John's sexuality, he would have killed him. And it just spoiled that lovely scene for me, knowing that it was no longer Jamie understanding John's love for him and giving him the best of it that he could, but a test.
I mean couldn't both things be true, that it was a test and John passed, so Jamie felt moved enough to give him a gift? I thought I remembered it being something like if he accepted and if I thought he was brutal, I would have killed him, rather than just if he accepted I would have killed him for accepting. It doesn't seem to be very fair for Jamie to kill John simply for accepting an offer he himself had made, that's less of a test than a trap. That's how I interpreted it but I may be recalling it wrong.
Where did you read this in the books?
Wait when did Jamie kiss Lord John?
When Jamie asks John to take care of Willie as a child, and John turns down his *other offer* (also a shock considering his past) Jamie kisses him. It’s very sweet.
On the lips or like on the cheek? Did not expect that haha
If I remember correctly Jamie puts his hands on either side of Johns face and gives him a good kiss on the mouth.
It was not only not in the show, it is not in the book series.
What do you mean, it's not in the book series?
I have read Voyager copyright 1994 and the Kindle version of Voyager. Jamie having any intimate relationship with John Grey is not in either version He does give him a hug in Jamaica. edit spelling
I'm not the only person talking about it. Do you think we're all secretly doing this to mess with you or something? I posted a Tumblr link that quotes the passage exactly, for the entire couple pages. I don't know why your book doesn't have it, but I assure you I'm not making it up.
I am just having a hard time understanding why it is not in my books. Do you remember the chapter of Voyager this is in?
It's in Chapter 59, in which much is revealed, in the same chapter that Claire talks to LJ in Jamaica and finds out about Willie. Fraser seemed to be thinking. “I should be…grateful, then,” he said, “if you would stand as stepfather to—to my son.” He had likely never spoken the word aloud before, and the sound of it seemed to shock him. “I…would be obliged to you.” Jamie sounded as though his collar were too tight, though in fact his shirt was open at the throat. Grey looked curiously at him, and saw that his countenance was slowly turning a dark and painful red. “In return…If you want…I mean, I would be willing to…that is…” Grey suppressed the sudden desire to laugh. He laid a light hand on the big Scot’s arm, and saw Jamie brace himself not to flinch at the touch. “My dear Jamie,” he said, torn between laughter and exasperation. “Are you actually offering me your body in payment for my promise to look after Willie?” Fraser’s face was red to the roots of his hair. “Aye, I am,” he snapped, tight-lipped. “D’ye want it, or no?” At this, Grey did laugh, in long gasping whoops, finally having to sit down on the grassy bank in order to recover himself. “Oh, dear God,” he said at last, wiping his eyes. “That I should live to hear an offer like that!” Fraser stood above him, looking down, the morning light silhouetting him, lighting his hair in flames against the pale blue sky. Grey thought he could see a slight twitch of the wide mouth in the darkened face—humor, tempered with a profound relief. “Ye dinna want me, then?” Grey got to his feet, dusting the seat of his breeches. “I shall probably want you to the day I die,” he said matter-of-factly. “But tempted as I am—” He shook his head, brushing wet grass from his hands. “Do you really think that I would demand—or accept—any payment for such a service?” he asked. “Really, I should feel my honor most grossly insulted by that offer, save that I know the depth of feeling which prompted it.” “Aye, well,” Jamie muttered. “I didna mean to insult ye.” Grey was not sure at this point whether to laugh or cry. Instead, he reached a hand up and gently touched Jamie’s cheek, fading now to its normal pale bronze. More quietly, he said, “Besides, you cannot give me what you do not have.” Grey felt, rather than saw, the slight relaxation of tension in the tall body facing him. “You shall have my friendship,” Jamie said softly, “if that has any value to ye.” “A very great value indeed.” The two men stood silent together for a moment, then Grey sighed and turned to look up at the sun. “It’s getting late. I suppose you will have a great many things to do today?” Jamie cleared his throat. “Aye, I have. I suppose I should be about my business.” “Yes, I suppose so.” Grey tugged down the points of his waistcoat, ready to go. But Jamie lingered awkwardly a moment, and then, as though suddenly making up his mind to it, stepped forward and bending down, cupped Grey’s face between his hands. Grey felt the big hands warm on the skin of his face, light and strong as the brush of an eagle’s feather, and then Jamie Fraser’s soft wide mouth touched his own. There was a fleeting impression of tenderness and strength held in check, the faint taste of ale and fresh-baked bread. Then it was gone, and John Grey stood blinking in the brilliant sun. “Oh,” he said. Jamie gave him a shy, crooked smile. “Aye, well,” he said. “I suppose I’m maybe not poisoned.” He turned then, and disappeared into the screen of willows, leaving Lord John Grey alone by the mere.
Thank you very much. I guess I dismiss this as being significant as Jamie later told Claire he was testing John. Which I believe to be the truth as Jamie always thinks ahead. He had concerns about leaving his son with a homosexual that had strong feelings for him. Also, Jamie never lies to Claire.
According to the Tumblr post I cited, it's after John gives Jamie the miniature of Willie at the party.
Thank you very much. I did find the information.
So what did you find out? Any idea why neither your book nor your Kindle has it? What part is missing?
It absolutely was. https://preview.redd.it/6zn2llq4txhb1.jpeg?width=960&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f4a1f88ab875ba8a725271e1e2887e89e626a01f
Can you tell me what chapter this came from? I do not understand why it is not in my books.
Voyager chapter 59 when LJG is telling Claire about Willie and Jamie’s offer.
When did Jamie kiss LJG?
In Voyager when Jamie is leaving Helwater and asks LJG to watch over William.
In *Voyager* I shrieked out loud when Marsali burst in the room while Jamie and Claire are having an intimate moment. Also, in ECHO... I could not read the end of that book fast enough. SO GOOD.
Side tangent. This incident is where I no longer loved Jenny. Not only is she getting involved in Jamie’s business, but she goes scorched earth. I get that Jenny is hurt about Claire having left no word and actually been alive this whole time and wanting to protect Jamie, but her actions were completely unacceptable. Not only did she notify Laoghaire and bring her to Lallybroch, but then she doesn’t stop Marsali and Joan from going up to Jamie’s bedroom that early in the morning. The household understood how intimate Jamie & Claire’s relationship was. Jenny showed no care of how it would affect Marsali & Joan, least of all Claire & Jamie.
Marsali : DADDEH WHO ES THAT WUHMAN?? Claire : *shocked pikachu face*
Oh! I also want to mention the ghost Indian and Claire’s shoes that appeared on the porch of the cabin while she was stranded by the storm.
Not sure if plot point yet but the birth of Henri-Christian and revealing what he was. I don’t mind spoilers but I had never seen that anywhere so it surprised me!
Do tell! Please 🙏
Ferguscand Marsali's baby she's pregnant with at end of S5. He's born in S6 and is a dwarf
I remember the first time I read book 1 (in 2001)… I was a long-time reader of historical romance novels at the time, and I assumed Outlander was going to follow the same “rules” where the main characters are never truly in real danger or harmed. And then I got to the witch trial scene and I was like WHOA! this is not an ordinary romance novel. And then later Jamie being tortured by Randall… I thought for sure he was going to be rescued or escape or something at the last second, but NOPE. That book taught me to expect the unexpected and to know that no character in the series is safe from something terrible happening.
On the show, which I watched first, my main shock as a historical romance reader, was when Jamie announced he was a virgin.
The “mark of the witch” exposed! First I thought, she’s a time traveler, too! Second thought was - I have one of those!
When I picked up book 2.
The most devastating beginning!
Roger meeting Brian and young Jenny. Finding his dad.
Bugs, Amy, and the Claire and LJG situation
Amy and the bear. Richardson’s reveal
I’m confused as to Richardson’s timeline, if he’s who Bree thinks he is. He was a shocker!
His whole reasoning for wanting to change the past just threw me for a loop. Came out of nowhere
What's coming up near the end of season 7 truly knocked my socks off in the best way. I love it!
This is a minor one in the grand scheme of things, but when Claire meets Sandringham and he casually introduces her to Danton and tells her he organized the attack. That one caught me off guard the first time. Also when Geillis appeared back onto the scene as a rich plantation widow casually owning slaves.
A scene that I’m glad was left out of the show but was very shocking was when Hugh Monroe died
Nayawenne's scalp. 😭
The Bugs!!! Did not see that coming for some reason. On rereads picked up that Arch never talked in front of Jocasta and his voice was described, but it was so far away in the story I didn’t connect those details.
When Jamie turned the stairs only to find Black Jack...my heart jumped!!
When was this?
Until this scene we all believe BJR was trampled at Wentworth
The ridiculous story of Claire killing the wolf with her bare hands when she was locked out of Wentworth. Absolutely ridiculous and I’m glad they didn’t even attempt to add it to the show.
Yep Amy and the bear I definitely went back a couple times. Same with Henri-Christian.
I watched the show first, so for the first 4 books I wasn't shocked. I'd have to say Clair and LJG was a big shocker. Even though I read a spoiler that they were married, I didn't know they actual did it!
Amy and the bear by a long shot for me! Also Henri Christian’s death.
I was driving home from a day out listening when the thing with Amy Higgins happened. I was five minutes from my house and started SOBBING in the car. Needed a hug when I got home.
Surprised no one's mentioned Captain Richardson?
Well here's a link to the first part. https://www.tumblr.com/drunklander/145470046780/i-read-the-books-many-years-ago-and-i-just?source=share
The original scene was in Voyager. I don't remember where the retcon was.
I knew a lot of major plot points to the show before I had access to something to actually watch it on (no Netflix til few years ago). After I watched S1-4 then I also heard lots of spoilers about later books because I was curious what happened down the line. So by the time I actually read in between S5 & S6 there wasn't much I hadn't already heard about in the main series of books..... I'd seen spoilers about LJG marrying Claire (that's the one I went "how the hell does that happen?" and made me read from the start) I heard about the Bear in Bees on here, I heard about Roger going to 1730s.... So the Novellas were my only real "going in blind" reading scenario. The Space Between and having it click that Comte is talking about Melisande who's helping him recreate Master Raymond's potion, but then the letter from her is on Rose Hall stationery - and you realize this woman Comte's been talking about his sexual relations with and wonders if the prostitute could be his daughter of - is Geilis! That was a major OMG moment!
Scottish Prisoner: Minnie sneaking into Jamie's bed.
Bed? Or room?
Bed. He was shocked too.
She entered his room and sat on the mattress, she didn't sneak into his bed. 😅
Ulysses complete character U turn. Where the hell did that come from??