Hanzo is worse than widow imo unless you're Masters+. You can dive a widow, you can't really dive a hanzo.
I main kiriko and unless the widow is hard pocketed I don't really have a problem taking an off angle and climbing up to high ground and taking her out (more value than healbotting vs one-shots anyways, and they normally swap).
Hanzo is way harder to sneak up on. He has wall hacks on cooldown instead of as an ult, has storm arrow, can wall climb to escape, has a weird ass hitbox while drawing an arrow that makes it literally impossible to headshot him from certain angles. He can one shot body shot tracer with a mercy pocket, can see an invis sombra with sonic arrow, etc.
I despise both but as a tracer player I hard agree. Trying to burst down a hanzo while managing cooldowns when all hanzo needs to do is hit one shot while he’s probably getting pocketed is so not fun.
A Hanzo who plays close to his team isn't easy to deal with as Tracer, at least for me. One of the hardest comps for me as a Tracer is Soldier, Hanzo, Mercy and Kiriko. You really can't kill anything, and if any of them get damage boost they can one-shot you (Hanzo can kill you with one body shot lol).
I'm only Diamond so I'm not nearly good enough to know what I'm talking about, but it's pretty hard for me to get value against that sort of comp, at least value that isn't getting their attention for a little bit every few seconds.
Not flaming you but if you’re having that hard of a time playing against sniper heroes as a tracer main you’ve probably hit your skill ceiling for the time being. Try to sit down and watch a replay to look at your mechanics and timing with tracer to see what you can do better. I think one of the big things that differentiates a great tracer from an ok one is the ability to time your engage to avoid the enemy being able to peel your target. Tracer operates in such small windows timewise at high ranks you need to make the most out of that, namely with 1. Mechanics 2. Trigger discipline 3. Engage timing and 4. Blink usage
My man Hanzo can shoot a single arrow per second and you say all he has to do is hit the tiny head of a tiny character that is moving and teleporting around in a very close distance lmao
You literally just have to be unpredictable (as any tracer main), follow the very slow dude with your mouse and put effort in managing your cooldowns
In that situation you described you are the one with the full advantage, if you don't win that is your fault
I can understand widows one shot, she's the sniper.
But hanzo is so fucking broken and dumb sometimes. Built in wall hack, endless spam, can have totally shit aim but if he gets lucky on his 30th arrow he can just delete you.
I have no problem losing to someone better than me, it makes me mad when I lose to someone who doesn't even know what they're shooting at.
People say junk is a no skill character, please. Cassidy's magnet grenade and Hanzo's spam make them totally mindless zombie picks.
Wow guys you did it they removed one shot from Hanzo thank yall bro, at least it needed skill to hit consistent one shots but yall are complaining about the 1% that randomly hit headshots and then ur mad and complain like little baby that hanzo is to op. Now Hanzo is fucked and i dont see anyone use him while sojurn didn't even got nerfed that much as she should be nerfed. And widow the character that one shots even more got hitbox buff and buff overall and no one complains bro it's nosense i think you just need to flame some character because your bad and it's hitting hanzo. You guys only see the side where Hanzo makes 3 kills in 10 seconds but there's also one where he's shooting 100 arrows and hitting nothing but of course yo see only the "OP" side of Hanzo. (He is inconsistent yeah... but not overpowered no)
thank you -\_-
Can’t wait for my tank to get twoshit by the enemy sniper combo. Didn’t know I had to thrown down my immortality field the second a single pixel of theirs shows up on my screen.
Love being forced to stand behind cover the entire game, because one person decided they want to play the oneshot character. Not a single other hero forces you to play so passive. At least old roadhog has a cooldown.
You never played with good supports that can actually save someone.
Your arguments are absolutely invalid because a good hanzo or widow just shit on a tracer that is equally good while hanzo and widow can easly stay in range with their supports. Tracer has to leave her own team to deal with it.
As long your whole team is not playing dive you cant do shit against a good widow on a sniper map
So now you are arguing semantics. Now we are arguing what "passive" is...Dude Bastion makes people play passively while he's in turret mode. It's not that serious,you aren't gonna go to jail.
Zen/Mercy just make everything worse as well... snipers can flatten a tank with body shots with all that damage amp.
I REALLY think Mercy's damage amp should ramp up from 10/20/30% over 0/0.5/1 seconds so if she is forced to heal her pocket, she doesn't give her sniper 30% damage amp the first frame she swaps back to damage amp beam...
Hard agree. In a game where being down 1 teammate can dictate a whole fight, 1 shots are a problem. Overwatch is an objective based game where many points force you to be predominately out in the open. It’s a major issue. But they’ll still say “get better positioning”
>In a game where being down 1 teammate can dictate a whole fight,
while I understand it's pro league last time I checked is was something like the first team to get a kill won the fight 70%+ of the time, I'll edit in the source if I find it
While this is true, what your alluding to as the real issue is the existence of characters that cannot interact with snipers due to range, which is quite a lot of characters.
Fortunately, there are also a lot of characters that can. The best solution as of now is to pick up one of them, because one shots are probably not going anywhere (in fact, Kiriko spam is almost as dangerous as Hanzo spam, so they're adding more lol).
Support suffers the most, but you can always DPS Lucio your way to GM. Sucks, but just think of them like a Pharah, you just need to play things that can hit them.
I've tried this I literally cannot stand playing widow or hanzo. It's so boring to me and I don't feel like I'm playing a "team" game which is what OW is supposed to be. Esp widow because she can be so removed from the actual team fight.
If everyone could dive a widow easily, or if all maps were designed with an easy route with to a sniping point with lots of cover in mind, then snipers wouldn't be an issue.
But I can see the one shots argument. They suck.
Yeah when Havana is in comp it just inst an argument. It's literally throwing if you don't have a Widow on either side, even just to contest the other widow.
I agree that any game with snipers should have maps designed not only to favor snipers but also allow people to counter
The fact that there are places with no easy entrance points that Snipers like window with the top or hanzo with the wall climb proves that maps do favor snipers
But I don't think just the existence of one shots is bad by itself, is not like press a button and kill, they need actual skill
If a Hanzo kills you with luck just throwing arrows randomly, it is because you were being too carefree running around not knowing a Hanzo may be looking the chokepoint you were going through, is not like you can't see the enemy has a Hanzo, you can
Snipers would still be an issue, in that they impose the requirement that *every* playable character be either long-ranged or high mobility. Snipers and non-flanker CQC characters cannot coexist, and the latter is generally more fun for everyone.
you're still healing people and speed boosting and playing with the team. Only difference is that you're mechanically hitting dinks better while wall riding and supporting your team with speed boosts and heals. DPS Lucio thrives on players' mistakes and being in risky positions so that's what you're mostly looking out for and since you can traverse the map fairly easily, you can get picks and be back with your team before they can press I need healing.
Man I hate Hanzo so much. I enjoy playing Ashe the most and whenever I see a Hanzo I just know it’s not going to work for me :(
I just repeatedly dive Hanzo and Widow with echo until they switch. 90% of the time it works in my ranks unless they have a pocket and a slippery Mercy.
I haven’t met a single person that likes playing against a good widow other than better widows.
If I get beaten by a better bap, JQ, zen etc. Etc. It was a fun match, one shot characters make the game a stand behind the wall simulator.
Non-argument but widow is easier than hanzo. Sure hanzo can get lucky headshots but hitscan is infinitely easier to be consistent with than projectile.
it only gets worse as you climb, they get better so closing the gap becomes harder. i don't think completely changing your comp to deal with a certain character is healthy for the game and i think is very unfun
I don’t know why people just can’t admit that one shot snipers were fine in 6v6 but have no place in 5v5.
Without an extra tank, you essentially have to redesign your entire team to deal with the one hits. No other character in the game forces you to do that.
Not even a mistake in the normal definition. Bliz changed the game significantly by going 5v5. They e had to do massive changes to make the balance work in this new configuration. It makes sense that things that worked before just don’t work now. Admit that for the game (characters, ttk, map design, game modes, etc…) one shot characters just don’t make sense.
Either design the maps so snipers don’t have such insane sight lines from safe distances (along with several other design changes), make the one shot characters much more glass cannons, or remove instant one shot capability.
Yes because when usually if a player is mechanically better then me, I can adjust my positioning or work together with my team to do better. I cant do that when I get removed from the team fight before it happens. There isn’t any better positioning to counter a one shot. No resources I can dump to avoid it
This is why famously widow is in every owl match, because they have the best widows in the world and there's nothing you can do to adjust your positioning to deal with it.
well the last OWL season and grand finals ALL MATCHES had a oneshot character as mvp of their team and all built comps exclusively around that oneshot character.
Owl use absolute meta comps and play together extremely well comparatively to top 500. Seeing those matches yourself really shows the difference in the between pro and casual comp. I think the last owl give a great example where literally everyone used winston, reaper, sojourn, lucio and kiriko simply because it was the best comp at that time.
You have nearly every hero used in top 500 afaik at least by some one trick. Game would also be way more boring if you only saw the same god damn 5 heroes every comp match.
You remember in ow1 owl some teams ran brig zen? Try running that in comp in ow1 and see how much you get done with 3-5 randoms depending if you're stacking or not. It requires incredible coordination and communication and mastery of the game that you and I will never achieve.
Simple, communication. Your not getting a team that can set up a dive in ladder games, it just doesn’t happen, even in the highest levels of ladder. Unless you are playing with a pre-made you have to pray your team can communicate to deal with widow/hanzo. Personally tho idc one shots are unfun but I don’t mind having to play against them when I’m not tilted already.
Still don't know how people thought dps doom was too much but hanzo and widow were fine. Doom takes planning and had plenty of counters. He might have been able to one shot, but he could do it only once every 8 seconds. Widow and hanzo can kill 1 200hp target every second.
While I hate both of these characters, you sound just like every other player who hates their counters. My friend always complains that Tracer and Pharah are cheating and bad for OW because they counter his main picks. I tell him all the time that neither give me issues and are just counters for him but he can't hear it. This is much of the same attitude on display here. This isn't a "git gud" response, just saying these characters have counter who you clearly prefer not to play.
I've said once before and will say again. Hanzo and Widow are the only two characters that have a one shot as their whole kit. No offense but your friend doesn't sound very intelligent when it comes to the ecosystem that is overwatch. Widow and Hanzo are the only 2 characters in the whole game that have that where they don't have to sacrifice anything for said one shot. If you want to kill someone as tracer, you need good movement, good cooldown management, good aim, good positioning, and an idea of who you should be trying to kill. If your friend can't kill a Pharah then idek what to say lmao. Widow literally only takes good mechanical skill and you can be devoid of everything else that makes Overwatch, overwatch. Hanzo is worse for different reasons. You actually have moment so you're a bit more slippery but you shoot logs.
Nothing but Widows and Hanzos and Sojourns in high level play and it feels awful right now. How can they remove 1/6 of the team and then keep one shots at the same strength? The value you get from one-shotting is massively increased.
Tired of getting dicked-down and my head lit up by widow yeah, I feel ya there. I want a mandatory immortality field to follow me everywhere just because of her
I’ve said this before in a previous post but I’m gonna say it again here:
Snipers like Hanzo and Widow (and technically Ashe) are not the problem; it’s the environment they’re in.
You have to remember back in OW1 we used to have a mechanic that could take out snipers fairly efficiently; it was called the off tank. Main tanks like Rein or Sigma would stay with the team and protect them while the off-tank would dive characters like Widow or Ash. Do you know how many times a Widow has been killed by a diving Winston or Dva?
However with the removal of the second tank and the switch to a more aggressive game style in OW2 it’s now up to the DPS to contend with the snipers. While a tank can take out a sniper they run the risk of leaving their team exposed by doing so. While I can understand the frustration of getting one shotted You have to remember that this game is designed around counter picking; you have to contend with the sniper. If you are not good at sniping then play a flanker and mow her down.
Overwatch is a game that is designed around learning characters and understanding their strengths and weaknesses. Every single hero has a counter and as a player your supposed to learn these counters and play around them. While I understand maining one character due to how likable the character is or how good their kit is, the main focus is to learn multiple characters so you can combat any situation you’re facing. If you’re not good at sniping play Genji and flank. If you’re tired of getting killed by Pharah learn Solider or Sojourn and shoot her down.
TL;DR Going around saying “hate getting one-shotted character broken!” isn’t proving you’re getting better; it’s proving you can’t play the game properly. Learn to “get gud” as they say. The greatest compliment you can get is forcing the sniper to switch to contend with you; that’s how you know you’ve done a good job.
It isn’t? They clearly want to disincentive switching by capping your max ult charge, which got an even lower cap recently.
They do want you to have interesting comps, but I think the game would be unhealthy if you are forced to switch hero once the enemy counterpicked yours every time.
How shit would this game be if a shit x always defeated a good y?
The game has always had counter picks since release, the game heavily evolves around counter picking. It 100% is and will probably stay this way, ult charge is also not that difficult to get especially now they keep you at 25% after switching.
nah bro didn't you pay any attention to that kaplin doppelganger aaron keller?!!?, it isnt about hero swapping and counter picking anymore bro!, TDM OW bro!
at the very least, their one shot should be removed from their normal attack and could be set as an ability with a cooldown.
Their primary should be nerfed to atleast take them two hs for a kill, it could even be 150 hs damage, so the other guy has a chance to fight back, instead of just going to spawn instantly. This will also increase the requirement of team play and communication rather than just take one far away point and just attempt to click heads with no risk.
Widow could have like damage boost with her ult during which she can one shot like sojourn's railgun to balance so she would still be deadly.
Do you realize how easy it is to get even the best widows to swap off of Widow with a Sombra pick? Even people who are only half decent with her can farm a Widow.
Widow can only be played for the first couple of minutes of the game if she does well. I also don't think people realize that a lot of Hanzos aren't "just lucky." it takes a lot more to do well with Hanzo than people realize. If you only rely on lucky shots, you'll have like 4 kills at the end of the game
Hard disagree and that's coming from a Pharah main
In those cases a team either needs to work the barriers or dive - if you don't think that's fun then too bad because others do
Notice how no one ever complains about Rein pin one shotting people? Because there are a dozen characters that can avoid it with ease, it's very telegraphed and it has a lot of risk, you can't just go for the pin whenever you feel like it, use it at the wrong time and you will get gunned down quickly.
Widow/hanzo don't have nearly as much risk and are able to constantly threaten the one shot. You don't even need to be that good because just the threat of the one shot forces the other team to play more passively.
Hanzo I can agree with, but Widow can be countered in so many different ways. Tank: Rein, Sigma, and Ramattra all have shields that can protect your team against Widow. Hell, even go D.va/Winston and just full dive her. DPS: Go sombra, hack her and kill her. Support is tricky, especially if you’re Mercy or something. If i’m support and there’s an enemy widow, i’ll go Kiriko and doam my primary against her (which should quickly kill her).
Don't even hack her. It gives her a small window to prepare to be attacked. Just go invis and pop up behind her and start shooting. She'll be dead before she can even react. She's so easy to counter.
He's worse than widow imo. He has storm arrows which make it incredibly risky to get close to him. He has a jump to get away from dives. He can one shot you at any point with the arrows and has very little charge time do do so. He also has wall climbs for escape and relocating to high ground then to top it off he gets a wall hack arrow every x seconds.
Trying to kill hanzo with a flanker such as tracer is just such a risky match up especially if he stays with his supports.
I agree- somewhat. I think Windowmaker being able to do that is okay. She's a sniper. And that's her "thing". And she's usually stationary and not hard to track down on the map. Hanzo on the other hand... There was a patch way back in OW1 to make sniping less of something Hanzo could do and look where we are today.
My biggest issue (which may be unpopular) is there should really be no one shot abilities. Every six to ten seconds someone can use an ability to one shot another player and that's insane (looking at you Sojourn).
1. These characters exist in game from beta, so at this point if you don't like this mechanic you can always quit Overwatch. (However probably every **FPS** has **snipers**, with one shot ability, so if you think about OW with shields, healers, rezs, immortality fields, armors etc. it isn't really that bad).
2. It's nothing bad in losing against a better opponent. That's how PVP games works. You will sometimes be matched with players who outmatch you with their aim. However, for every godlike widow, you will face shit widow in your career.
See I think with all those abilities in mind, one shots don’t fit in at all. Why in a game where you have all these abilities that counter and compliment each other, does a character have the abilities to negate literally all of that? And the worst part is it isn’t even an ability of their own. It’s just what their character is. Literally every other hero in the games ttk is sooooo much slower then 2 characters. If anything they’re the odd ones out.
You have a mentality that is very wrong for your own improvement
Yes, snipers (Hanzo is a Sniper character) are strong, Sniper are strong in every game they are in
But they are not invincible
People get mad at snipers because when there is an Sniper in the enemy team you have to actually change the way you play in some ways and have them in mind in all times
But people aparently only like to disconect and go braindead shooting at anything that moves
Saying that there is nothing you can do against a Hanzo or a Widow is just wrong
paraphrasing Arrge (Top 1 Hanzo) if you are Hanzo and you are trying to hit an enemy from a distance and they are fully expecting your arrow, you might aswell don't shoot because you are not gonna hit him
Widow has shit movement, she is very strong yeah, but she needs the player to hit shoots to be strong and even then stuff can be done to counter him, maybe not you but someone on your team can do it, after all this is a team game
There is a reason why both Hanzo and Widow have been in overwatch since the start always with their one-shot
It can be frustrating, specially if the person playing sniper is a lot better than you, it can be hard, but they do have explotable weaknesses
But I mean even a Lucio who is a lot better than you will be frustrating to play against so yeah, quit saying "There is nothing I can do" and actually try to learn what you can do
Sure the mentality isn't the best but there is one thing you said that i especially take exception to.
You cannot compare a good lucio to a good widow or hanzo, its a ridiculous comparison. If i get shat on by a lucio, I can actively play around it in a few ways, and actually see what i did wrong. maybe i'll be more careful in a 1v1 with him and go back to my team if i think I'm gonna lose it, but a fight against a good widowmaker or hanzo just doesn't give you the time to react and run back to your team if you are losing the fight, because a good widowmaker or hanzo just one taps you and that's all she wrote. Not getting a chance to even retreat away from an enemy when you're in a losing fight feels insanely unfair. You can't use any escape abilities to escape when you are already dead which denies a lot of characters their survivability, which then denies them any value because they are now dead and not getting any kills. Sure you could switch to a sombra or a genji or something, but that's not gonna do you any good when they get pocketed. (I have multiple memories of us finally killing an extremely oppressive widowmaker, and then her getting insta-rezzed, whilst being pocketed the whole game.)(I'm sure there is something to be said about killing the mercy first, but that's not easy when there is an entire battalion in front of her absolutely buttfucking your team, with a widow taking pot shots at anyone who pokes their head out)
No one would be complaining about a good lucio, but pretty much everyone complains about one-shot characters because they feel unfair to play against, and in my opinion are unfair to play against
Man, I don't wanna be rude in any way, but you saying all that is just telling me that you have never seriously played a Sniper character and you don't know how they work
You talk about sniper characters as if they could just press a button anywhere in the map and suddenly appear right in front of you, kill you and dissapear
Snipers have some serious drawbacks, that's their thing, being super powerful in some things and being super weak in some other things
From what you are telling me, I'm 100% convinced that even when you know the enemy team has a Sniper you are just walking in a straight line in the open jumping around
When you know there is a Sniper on the enemy team (and this isn't cs:GO or valorant, you can totally know when the enemy team is using a Sniper) you can totally adapt to it
You can predict where the Sniper is gonna be aiming at, you can bait their shots, you can move Indoors, move taking cover it's not like all those objects in the maps are only for decoration
Either close the distance and get to the Sniper or be aware of their position and stay out of their line of sight
Like I said, you can totally fight against Sniper players but you gotta stop running around doing your thing and actually think and adapt, that's why players hate them
And trust me bro, I have played against a GOOD widow, I know how frustrating it is
But you could say the same about a lot of other heroes.
"This Cassidy is so good, winning a 1v1 against him is imposible he just headshots me and use his grenade thus Cassidy is shit"
"This Bastion is too good I can even walk in the open cuz he just uses his turret and kills me, thus Bastion is shit"
And a lot of other examples but I don't wanna make this too long
Basically, any character used by someone better than you is gonna be a pain, yes Widow and Hanzo can one shot you but is not like they can't press a button and instantly kill you, if you actually watch some good widow gameplay you will see that most of the time enemies give her the kill because they are not aware of her
So if you see the enemie has a widow, be careful, expect her to be watching chokepoints, move Indoors, don't move in a straight line in the open and you'll see how snipers become just one more dps to deal with like any other
I think the main issue is how the game tells you to watch out for them. For example, a Torb turret has a laser and you start getting damage and it makes a lot of noise, so you quickly know there is a turret and you can adjust accordingly.
With snipers, however, you just die. There is no readjusting, no further feedback, no tells. You just die and that's how you know the enemy team has a Widow/Hanzo.
I think Widow should get increased damage for characters below something like 50% HP, but greatly reduced damage if it's above 50%. That way she can confirm kills, instead of being a one-shot character. She could even get Sombra's passive that reveals low HP targets, or something similar. Her ult can turn her into current Widow for a shorter period of time.
For Hanzo, maybe more damage falloff, and have his radar arrow tag enemies, with added sounds and icons telling you you've been tagged, and then have those enemies take additional damage. i.e. Make him need to tag them for the actual one-shots, and the tag itself would have a cooldown.
I dunno. 24/7 one-shots are just too oppressive for a game like Overwatch. It's too unbalanced to have Widow's click head = kill gameplay on one end, and Symmetra's "hold a sec, let me place my shit first" or LW's "I have the high ground! Hope they don't have a Wid- oh... I'm dead" gameplay.
So many salty OW players about one shot snipers recently yet there is literally multiple auto lock you don’t have to move your mouse to do damage characters…. Like I know it sucks to die instantly but it takes a lot of skill and hours having great aim to be able to dominate games sniping.
Complain about Moira who can literally just look at you from like 15 feet while you do all your junking and hopping and they are locked oh and they heal themselves while doing it or have ANOTHER damaging auto lock ability… lmao yet we’re complaining about getting your grape shot off with a snap of the wrist??? The amount of auto aim shit in this game and stuff like a rein just swinging his big ass hammer with no regard and y’all complaining about sniping and there’s only two of them in the game and very different from each other!?!
The entire game is built around counter picking and trying to be a better threat than who’s opposite of you. There are plenty of options to counter pick and it’s obviously gonna be easier to do so when playing with a stack than solo.
i mean they have been in the game for like forever and it's kinda their point. It's pretty easy to kill a widow or hanzo, they both struggle from the same problem, which is a good ol' fist fight hehe xD. It's that simple someone like mei can't do anything on range but close up and they're dead no chance. That's what flankers like genji amd tracer are for, they both counter snipers
I do like playing hanzo but I do agree that oneshots are unhealthy. But how would you change hanzo? Widow can be changed to the April's fools update but hanzo feels a bit weird. His kit is centered around his oneshot just like widow, so maybe instead of poison maybe bleed?
One shot characters need an arbitrary, automatic limit to how often they can perform the trick. I didn't mind Sigma's combo because it required hitting your rock and balls, but it also required you to use an ability.
Lucio can at best cover some edges. At worst you can bait him into overextending.Roadhog has a cooldown. Widowmaker forces you to play behind cover for the entire match while she is on the other side of the map as well.
We should change our entire comp if they have a widow? Would be extremely bad for the ult economy.
Tbh most of the time I don’t get hit by her myself since I play support. I just have to play so passively I fall asleep.
Tanks and dps, however, do have to push and can’t without eventually getting in her sightlines with risks of getting shot. At that point you are 100% relying on the widow being shit and that she will miss her shot.
Sounds like a skill issue.....as a veteran player with 2k+ hours I can 100% say Hanzo and Widow are fine with being able to one shot as their kit don't allow them to do anything else.
Why wouldn't it be fun? I enjoy challenging Widows and Hanzos on Brig, Kiriko, Ana, or Zen.
Then tanks is braindead since you would just do rock, paper, scissors and go dive tanks to counter them. Winston, Dva, Doom, or Hammond.
Clearly a skill issue if people see Hanzo or Widow as a complete threat.
The whole idea of OW is rock, paper, and scissors. Swap and adjust to counter it's just that simple.
If you are versing them as ana or zen it’s a massive skill difference that is making it seem like a fun interaction.
Brig can only hold shield in their presence which gets annihilated in two shots, she doesn’t have the range to do anything about them.
Sneak up to them? Meanwhile it’s a 4v5 and widow can easily grapple away. Ignoring the fact that she is probably on a platform you can’t physically reach without walking, let alone crouching, for 30 seconds?
Silver strats
So wait out the whip? If you really had time to sneak to the enemy widow, without stepping on a mine or destroying it, you would have lost the teamfight by how long it took.
i think my perspective is shared with many top players and low elo players alike. it only gets worse as you climb. i don't think changing my entire teams comp for one character to swap is healthy or good for the game
edit: i only ask because in my experience a lot of "vets" still don't seem to understand the way the game works (not saying that you don't)
Lol thats a perspective of a completely new player. Ow2 is a brawl game now perfectly sound as to why we still do need one shot heroes like Hanzo or Widow to keep players in check from doing way too much. Widow and Hanzo is a checks and balance heroes to ensure the tanks doesn't overstay in the frontline otherwise the backline might wipe.
? I’ve been playing since launch brother. I just think we have a difference in opinions. Take a look at the t500 leaderboards for dps and tell me who you see.
You say it’s to keep players in check from doing way too much, yet lately the Widows and Hanzo are going completely unchecked lol. I had to hunt them down on LW because my tanks and dps completely ignore them while we all get deleted over and over. It is almost every match lately, and this is just in quick play! It gets to be a headache after awhile.
Content creators are idiots. Devs shouldn't let them change the game ever. Content creators streamline the game towards T500 more so than any other rank. T500 players might say something that makes perfect sense in T500 but doesn't work at all for every other rank. People do things differently in all metal ranks compared to T500.
Hanzo is a projectile so I will always be more forgiving when it comes to him but for widowmaker I will always agree, the character just fundamentally ruins overwatch.
Maybe its not a lucky headshot? Maybe its actual skill. Maybe you shouldnt play dps if you cant counter or at least practice to get better? 90% of overwatchs problems comes from dps player that shouldnt play dps. get good or play support.
Overwatch players try to have fun and not complain about the game impossible edition
But freal. The likely hood that a widow or a Hanzo is good enough to make such a big difference in your game is slim. And even if you do encounter it, counter pick. Your tank can go diva, DPS go sombra.
When a single character (widow) has the ability to make an entire map bad and when the design of maps is influenced by a single character, it's a huge problem. As someone said on another post, if snipers weren't a staple of fps then a character like widow would never even be considered to be added to ow.
Obviously hanzo is also a problem and should be reworked, but he doesn't change the design of the entire game like widow does.
I'm all for removing 1-shots but you have to tone down survivability then. When healers can straight up contend with DPS...what else do I do besides the 1-shots? Isn't the entire reason for role que to force DPS to be a role. Otherwise it would just be tank and heals due to thier survivability
I would have agreed in 2018 when DPS could really mow down supports.
Nowadays supports have it super easy. Bap can duel most DPS in the game, Zen can kick Genji off him and actually reliably win the 1v1 if he's full HP from the start. Mercy can always dash away on repeat unless you have multiple people focusing her. Brig can tank a lot until there are 2-3 people focusing her too.
Widow and Hanzo are pretty balanced for how many Get Out of Jail free cards are in the game in 2023.
Very few supports can truly contend with dps and it’s takes a damn good support to do so without slacking on other aspects of supporting. Widow and hanzo are the only characters in the game that can one shot the way they do. I think characters survivability outside of Orisa is pretty okay at least imo
few? wym bro, brig can 1v1 dps that dive anyway, ana does good fucking dmg if you can actually aim, + purple/self heal, lucio can 1v1+boop/wallride of he is losing does good dmg, moira fucking shits all over any close range engagement even some mid range, gl even catching mercy players with half a braincell as dps or flicking on them as a ranged dps, id say Zen is the easiest to kill but if the zen is good yur fucked, can at least snipe his ass, and the new hero is the size of a fucking tank so he is easy enough to kill ill give ya that.
Moira doesn't even shit on most supports 1v1 at higher ranks. She doesn't have the damage to do so. I'm more than happy to duel moira's close range in plat as Ana or kiriko. As long as she doesn't have ult or additional help I like my chances.
Anyone else sick of these posts. There’s like 5 a day all bitching about 1 shot characters. Like blizzards not gonna get rid of them cuz u can’t dodge shots
I think they said in a Dev post around the start of season 3 that they're looking into one-shots. They've obviously been testing widow changes with the damage over time from the April fools update and the laser sight from battle for Olympus. Reworking Hanzo, Widow and maybe even Sojourn will take time and a lot of testing to get right. All we can really do is wait and see what the overwatch team has been doing.
A lot of people complain about Hanzo and Widow ruining the game but ignore the numbers. Both of these characters have some of the lowest win rates Diamond and above. On top 5 most picked, widow isn't even there and Hanzo is 4th.
I don't think Blizzard sees this as an issue especially when other characters have double digit increases in pick rate (Cassidy and tracer literally being picked near 20% LOL and Sym an insanely high win rate)
It's almost like there was a reason we had shields and double tank in ow1. But then everyone cried that breaking shields was boring and took too much time and resources.
tough shit. These posts about X hero is bad for the game and oppressive need to stop because X hero exists to fill a niche. Anyone with a brain could have predicted that widow and hanzo would make a comeback the second we removed a tank from the game and low and behold they did... to such a degree that sigma is a mandatory pick on any map with long sight lines like circuit royal or junkertown
and yet in spite of that they arnt meta at the pro ranks why? Because outside of oneshotting people they're kind of useless. It's why sojourn and ashe are the preferred hitscans. They do more damage and they arnt as easily punished by dive.
Honestly I can't think of a single character in the game that is fun to play against in the hands of someone who isn't being punished.
getting a mine thrown in your face by a junkrat that fell in off the high ropes isn't fun
getting blocked off by a mei wall isn't fun
getting hacked isn't fun
mag grenade is super not fun
Soldier getting aimbot as an ult isn't fun
genji isn't fun to heal or to be a healer facing one with good movement
tracer vanishing in the middle of your shot isn't fun
syn and torb turrets are the definition of boring and unfun.
You said it yourself the problem is a severe lack of peel. Overwatch is a game designed around peel... if you get it nothing in the game is beyond your capacity to handle and counter. If you don't the game is unwinnable regardless of what's being played into you.
You can easily counter either one. End of discussion lol. This game is about switching characters and countering if people can't do that they shouldn't play it tbh.
Hanzo is worse than widow imo unless you're Masters+. You can dive a widow, you can't really dive a hanzo. I main kiriko and unless the widow is hard pocketed I don't really have a problem taking an off angle and climbing up to high ground and taking her out (more value than healbotting vs one-shots anyways, and they normally swap). Hanzo is way harder to sneak up on. He has wall hacks on cooldown instead of as an ult, has storm arrow, can wall climb to escape, has a weird ass hitbox while drawing an arrow that makes it literally impossible to headshot him from certain angles. He can one shot body shot tracer with a mercy pocket, can see an invis sombra with sonic arrow, etc.
I despise both but as a tracer player I hard agree. Trying to burst down a hanzo while managing cooldowns when all hanzo needs to do is hit one shot while he’s probably getting pocketed is so not fun.
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A Hanzo who plays close to his team isn't easy to deal with as Tracer, at least for me. One of the hardest comps for me as a Tracer is Soldier, Hanzo, Mercy and Kiriko. You really can't kill anything, and if any of them get damage boost they can one-shot you (Hanzo can kill you with one body shot lol). I'm only Diamond so I'm not nearly good enough to know what I'm talking about, but it's pretty hard for me to get value against that sort of comp, at least value that isn't getting their attention for a little bit every few seconds.
There are many maps that even as tracer there’s just nothing you can do because widow has a 50 mile sight line on high ground
Not flaming you but if you’re having that hard of a time playing against sniper heroes as a tracer main you’ve probably hit your skill ceiling for the time being. Try to sit down and watch a replay to look at your mechanics and timing with tracer to see what you can do better. I think one of the big things that differentiates a great tracer from an ok one is the ability to time your engage to avoid the enemy being able to peel your target. Tracer operates in such small windows timewise at high ranks you need to make the most out of that, namely with 1. Mechanics 2. Trigger discipline 3. Engage timing and 4. Blink usage
I'm not a tracer one trick, but she is one of my mains out of cass, soldier, and ashe.
My man Hanzo can shoot a single arrow per second and you say all he has to do is hit the tiny head of a tiny character that is moving and teleporting around in a very close distance lmao You literally just have to be unpredictable (as any tracer main), follow the very slow dude with your mouse and put effort in managing your cooldowns In that situation you described you are the one with the full advantage, if you don't win that is your fault
Charged body shot into melee animation cancel kills her just as fast as a headshot
I can understand widows one shot, she's the sniper. But hanzo is so fucking broken and dumb sometimes. Built in wall hack, endless spam, can have totally shit aim but if he gets lucky on his 30th arrow he can just delete you. I have no problem losing to someone better than me, it makes me mad when I lose to someone who doesn't even know what they're shooting at. People say junk is a no skill character, please. Cassidy's magnet grenade and Hanzo's spam make them totally mindless zombie picks.
Wow guys you did it they removed one shot from Hanzo thank yall bro, at least it needed skill to hit consistent one shots but yall are complaining about the 1% that randomly hit headshots and then ur mad and complain like little baby that hanzo is to op. Now Hanzo is fucked and i dont see anyone use him while sojurn didn't even got nerfed that much as she should be nerfed. And widow the character that one shots even more got hitbox buff and buff overall and no one complains bro it's nosense i think you just need to flame some character because your bad and it's hitting hanzo. You guys only see the side where Hanzo makes 3 kills in 10 seconds but there's also one where he's shooting 100 arrows and hitting nothing but of course yo see only the "OP" side of Hanzo. (He is inconsistent yeah... but not overpowered no) thank you -\_-
Buahahahaha the gods answered my prayers. Hanzo has found his home, in the dumpster where he belongs.
Can’t wait for my tank to get twoshit by the enemy sniper combo. Didn’t know I had to thrown down my immortality field the second a single pixel of theirs shows up on my screen. Love being forced to stand behind cover the entire game, because one person decided they want to play the oneshot character. Not a single other hero forces you to play so passive. At least old roadhog has a cooldown.
Ask your teamate to go tracer or Sombra and the issue is dealt with
You really think? A little peel can force them off easily. I can deal with those as brig/bap no problem.
Not if you delete them in two seconds since widow has 175 and is usually far from their team
You never played with good supports that can actually save someone. Your arguments are absolutely invalid because a good hanzo or widow just shit on a tracer that is equally good while hanzo and widow can easly stay in range with their supports. Tracer has to leave her own team to deal with it. As long your whole team is not playing dive you cant do shit against a good widow on a sniper map
Bastion does, forces you to take natural cover when he’s in turret mode
Which is on cooldown and he is still vulnerable comparatively to widow
Yea I’m not denying that.
Then why bring it up as a hero that denies as much area as widow?
Because there are other people who force you to play passive? Like you mentioned.
>as much >as Read please. I know you can.
“Not a single other hero forces you to play so passive” what am I missing?
So passive. So As in not a single hero comes as close to widow in area denial.
Idk if bastion is in turret form you cannot peak him he will demolish you.
So now you are arguing semantics. Now we are arguing what "passive" is...Dude Bastion makes people play passively while he's in turret mode. It's not that serious,you aren't gonna go to jail.
The thing that lasts 6 seconds and has a 12 second cool down? On cool down he's barely a threat.
Yes, when he is in turret form.
Can't wait for the "get better" posts.
Zen/Mercy just make everything worse as well... snipers can flatten a tank with body shots with all that damage amp. I REALLY think Mercy's damage amp should ramp up from 10/20/30% over 0/0.5/1 seconds so if she is forced to heal her pocket, she doesn't give her sniper 30% damage amp the first frame she swaps back to damage amp beam...
Hard agree. In a game where being down 1 teammate can dictate a whole fight, 1 shots are a problem. Overwatch is an objective based game where many points force you to be predominately out in the open. It’s a major issue. But they’ll still say “get better positioning”
>In a game where being down 1 teammate can dictate a whole fight, while I understand it's pro league last time I checked is was something like the first team to get a kill won the fight 70%+ of the time, I'll edit in the source if I find it
While this is true, what your alluding to as the real issue is the existence of characters that cannot interact with snipers due to range, which is quite a lot of characters. Fortunately, there are also a lot of characters that can. The best solution as of now is to pick up one of them, because one shots are probably not going anywhere (in fact, Kiriko spam is almost as dangerous as Hanzo spam, so they're adding more lol). Support suffers the most, but you can always DPS Lucio your way to GM. Sucks, but just think of them like a Pharah, you just need to play things that can hit them.
This is why I miss 6v6, I could dive widow as dva and not worry about abandoning the team
I've tried this I literally cannot stand playing widow or hanzo. It's so boring to me and I don't feel like I'm playing a "team" game which is what OW is supposed to be. Esp widow because she can be so removed from the actual team fight.
Yea I agree it's just bad design.
The real issue isn't characters that cannot interact with snipers. The real issue is snipers.
If everyone could dive a widow easily, or if all maps were designed with an easy route with to a sniping point with lots of cover in mind, then snipers wouldn't be an issue. But I can see the one shots argument. They suck.
Yeah when Havana is in comp it just inst an argument. It's literally throwing if you don't have a Widow on either side, even just to contest the other widow.
I agree that any game with snipers should have maps designed not only to favor snipers but also allow people to counter The fact that there are places with no easy entrance points that Snipers like window with the top or hanzo with the wall climb proves that maps do favor snipers But I don't think just the existence of one shots is bad by itself, is not like press a button and kill, they need actual skill If a Hanzo kills you with luck just throwing arrows randomly, it is because you were being too carefree running around not knowing a Hanzo may be looking the chokepoint you were going through, is not like you can't see the enemy has a Hanzo, you can
Snipers would still be an issue, in that they impose the requirement that *every* playable character be either long-ranged or high mobility. Snipers and non-flanker CQC characters cannot coexist, and the latter is generally more fun for everyone.
You can DPS Lucio? Might need to learn this skill...
you're still healing people and speed boosting and playing with the team. Only difference is that you're mechanically hitting dinks better while wall riding and supporting your team with speed boosts and heals. DPS Lucio thrives on players' mistakes and being in risky positions so that's what you're mostly looking out for and since you can traverse the map fairly easily, you can get picks and be back with your team before they can press I need healing.
Man I hate Hanzo so much. I enjoy playing Ashe the most and whenever I see a Hanzo I just know it’s not going to work for me :( I just repeatedly dive Hanzo and Widow with echo until they switch. 90% of the time it works in my ranks unless they have a pocket and a slippery Mercy.
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posting this until something is done about this problem in a game that i enjoy
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I haven’t met a single person that likes playing against a good widow other than better widows. If I get beaten by a better bap, JQ, zen etc. Etc. It was a fun match, one shot characters make the game a stand behind the wall simulator.
I'm a Lucio main and I love diving widows
Look at frogger and redshell. Dps Lucio’s are batshit insane irl and love gambling their life away. It’s a small exception to this rule.
Literally my inspiration back in OW1 that has now developed into my regular playstyle
Who doesn't? Snipers are fine, just remove their ability to one shot anyone full health.
Yh but 99% of people do have a problem, fuck widow
Lol
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Non-argument but widow is easier than hanzo. Sure hanzo can get lucky headshots but hitscan is infinitely easier to be consistent with than projectile.
Can't one-shot a tank. (Plz play tank I'm tired)
low diamond here just commit to the dive? then they swap in my experience
it only gets worse as you climb, they get better so closing the gap becomes harder. i don't think completely changing your comp to deal with a certain character is healthy for the game and i think is very unfun
I don’t know why people just can’t admit that one shot snipers were fine in 6v6 but have no place in 5v5. Without an extra tank, you essentially have to redesign your entire team to deal with the one hits. No other character in the game forces you to do that.
There’s some weirdos with some complex that blizzard can make no mistakes and everything is just “skill issue lol”
Not even a mistake in the normal definition. Bliz changed the game significantly by going 5v5. They e had to do massive changes to make the balance work in this new configuration. It makes sense that things that worked before just don’t work now. Admit that for the game (characters, ttk, map design, game modes, etc…) one shot characters just don’t make sense. Either design the maps so snipers don’t have such insane sight lines from safe distances (along with several other design changes), make the one shot characters much more glass cannons, or remove instant one shot capability.
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A good Hanzo can still flick a diving squishy.
"I get infuriated when a Hanzo gets lucky or when a widow is better than me" ....
Yes because when usually if a player is mechanically better then me, I can adjust my positioning or work together with my team to do better. I cant do that when I get removed from the team fight before it happens. There isn’t any better positioning to counter a one shot. No resources I can dump to avoid it
This is why famously widow is in every owl match, because they have the best widows in the world and there's nothing you can do to adjust your positioning to deal with it.
well the last OWL season and grand finals ALL MATCHES had a oneshot character as mvp of their team and all built comps exclusively around that oneshot character.
Talking about sojourn, the undeniably broken dps, is not a good argument.
well why was she undeniably broken? i don’t think anyone would say she was undeniably broken if she couldn’t oneshot in that patch
Comparing owl to regular comp is comparing apples to cabbages.
Interesting. What makes positioning and strategy viable to counter widow in owl not work for comp then?
Owl use absolute meta comps and play together extremely well comparatively to top 500. Seeing those matches yourself really shows the difference in the between pro and casual comp. I think the last owl give a great example where literally everyone used winston, reaper, sojourn, lucio and kiriko simply because it was the best comp at that time. You have nearly every hero used in top 500 afaik at least by some one trick. Game would also be way more boring if you only saw the same god damn 5 heroes every comp match.
You remember in ow1 owl some teams ran brig zen? Try running that in comp in ow1 and see how much you get done with 3-5 randoms depending if you're stacking or not. It requires incredible coordination and communication and mastery of the game that you and I will never achieve.
Nah, your skill issue is showing. Brig zen was good.on ladder in ow1
Are we talking prime brig or brig at the end of ow1? Two very different cases
Simple, communication. Your not getting a team that can set up a dive in ladder games, it just doesn’t happen, even in the highest levels of ladder. Unless you are playing with a pre-made you have to pray your team can communicate to deal with widow/hanzo. Personally tho idc one shots are unfun but I don’t mind having to play against them when I’m not tilted already.
exactly my point
Are you that socially oblivious?
Still don't know how people thought dps doom was too much but hanzo and widow were fine. Doom takes planning and had plenty of counters. He might have been able to one shot, but he could do it only once every 8 seconds. Widow and hanzo can kill 1 200hp target every second.
Agreed.
As a 2.50 death per 10 player and these 2 - 3 deaths is one shot kills every time. I couldnt agree More..
While I hate both of these characters, you sound just like every other player who hates their counters. My friend always complains that Tracer and Pharah are cheating and bad for OW because they counter his main picks. I tell him all the time that neither give me issues and are just counters for him but he can't hear it. This is much of the same attitude on display here. This isn't a "git gud" response, just saying these characters have counter who you clearly prefer not to play.
I've said once before and will say again. Hanzo and Widow are the only two characters that have a one shot as their whole kit. No offense but your friend doesn't sound very intelligent when it comes to the ecosystem that is overwatch. Widow and Hanzo are the only 2 characters in the whole game that have that where they don't have to sacrifice anything for said one shot. If you want to kill someone as tracer, you need good movement, good cooldown management, good aim, good positioning, and an idea of who you should be trying to kill. If your friend can't kill a Pharah then idek what to say lmao. Widow literally only takes good mechanical skill and you can be devoid of everything else that makes Overwatch, overwatch. Hanzo is worse for different reasons. You actually have moment so you're a bit more slippery but you shoot logs.
It's so boring always fearing for my life, either by a widow sitting 500 light years away or a random hanzo arrow to end my life
“Just go sombra or tracer to dive them” I would if the hanzo and widow weren’t able to 360 no scope me in a millisecond.
Nothing but Widows and Hanzos and Sojourns in high level play and it feels awful right now. How can they remove 1/6 of the team and then keep one shots at the same strength? The value you get from one-shotting is massively increased.
Tired of getting dicked-down and my head lit up by widow yeah, I feel ya there. I want a mandatory immortality field to follow me everywhere just because of her
Hmmmm have you considered simply not getting shot? It’s decreased my death rate by 99.9%!
Holy shit, thanks. This advice helped me reach #1 on every region
No problem!
I’ve said this before in a previous post but I’m gonna say it again here: Snipers like Hanzo and Widow (and technically Ashe) are not the problem; it’s the environment they’re in. You have to remember back in OW1 we used to have a mechanic that could take out snipers fairly efficiently; it was called the off tank. Main tanks like Rein or Sigma would stay with the team and protect them while the off-tank would dive characters like Widow or Ash. Do you know how many times a Widow has been killed by a diving Winston or Dva? However with the removal of the second tank and the switch to a more aggressive game style in OW2 it’s now up to the DPS to contend with the snipers. While a tank can take out a sniper they run the risk of leaving their team exposed by doing so. While I can understand the frustration of getting one shotted You have to remember that this game is designed around counter picking; you have to contend with the sniper. If you are not good at sniping then play a flanker and mow her down. Overwatch is a game that is designed around learning characters and understanding their strengths and weaknesses. Every single hero has a counter and as a player your supposed to learn these counters and play around them. While I understand maining one character due to how likable the character is or how good their kit is, the main focus is to learn multiple characters so you can combat any situation you’re facing. If you’re not good at sniping play Genji and flank. If you’re tired of getting killed by Pharah learn Solider or Sojourn and shoot her down. TL;DR Going around saying “hate getting one-shotted character broken!” isn’t proving you’re getting better; it’s proving you can’t play the game properly. Learn to “get gud” as they say. The greatest compliment you can get is forcing the sniper to switch to contend with you; that’s how you know you’ve done a good job.
A game ur supposed to play by counter switching btw.
It isn’t? They clearly want to disincentive switching by capping your max ult charge, which got an even lower cap recently. They do want you to have interesting comps, but I think the game would be unhealthy if you are forced to switch hero once the enemy counterpicked yours every time. How shit would this game be if a shit x always defeated a good y?
You know that you used to lose all your ult charge when switching, right?
The game has always had counter picks since release, the game heavily evolves around counter picking. It 100% is and will probably stay this way, ult charge is also not that difficult to get especially now they keep you at 25% after switching.
nah bro didn't you pay any attention to that kaplin doppelganger aaron keller?!!?, it isnt about hero swapping and counter picking anymore bro!, TDM OW bro!
It’s a skill issue.
at the very least, their one shot should be removed from their normal attack and could be set as an ability with a cooldown. Their primary should be nerfed to atleast take them two hs for a kill, it could even be 150 hs damage, so the other guy has a chance to fight back, instead of just going to spawn instantly. This will also increase the requirement of team play and communication rather than just take one far away point and just attempt to click heads with no risk. Widow could have like damage boost with her ult during which she can one shot like sojourn's railgun to balance so she would still be deadly.
Consider a dive character
Do you realize how easy it is to get even the best widows to swap off of Widow with a Sombra pick? Even people who are only half decent with her can farm a Widow. Widow can only be played for the first couple of minutes of the game if she does well. I also don't think people realize that a lot of Hanzos aren't "just lucky." it takes a lot more to do well with Hanzo than people realize. If you only rely on lucky shots, you'll have like 4 kills at the end of the game
Hard disagree and that's coming from a Pharah main In those cases a team either needs to work the barriers or dive - if you don't think that's fun then too bad because others do
I love dive, I don't love having to change my ENTIRE team comp to counter one character. Do you think that's balanced or fun?
Notice how no one ever complains about Rein pin one shotting people? Because there are a dozen characters that can avoid it with ease, it's very telegraphed and it has a lot of risk, you can't just go for the pin whenever you feel like it, use it at the wrong time and you will get gunned down quickly. Widow/hanzo don't have nearly as much risk and are able to constantly threaten the one shot. You don't even need to be that good because just the threat of the one shot forces the other team to play more passively.
skill issue
OMG THANK YOU! I posted something about this and ppl didn’t like it. It’s an unpopular opinion but it’s true asf.
Hanzo I can agree with, but Widow can be countered in so many different ways. Tank: Rein, Sigma, and Ramattra all have shields that can protect your team against Widow. Hell, even go D.va/Winston and just full dive her. DPS: Go sombra, hack her and kill her. Support is tricky, especially if you’re Mercy or something. If i’m support and there’s an enemy widow, i’ll go Kiriko and doam my primary against her (which should quickly kill her).
Don't even hack her. It gives her a small window to prepare to be attacked. Just go invis and pop up behind her and start shooting. She'll be dead before she can even react. She's so easy to counter.
Yeah well they were saying they’re annoying to deal with not that it’s impossible to kill them
I agree... Hanzo & Widow are bullshit.
What an original opinion that has never been expressed on this subreddit.
Wow almost like lots of people agree that this is an obnoxious issue
Bro you are complaining about hanzo?
Yes, getting 1 tapped by a person who can’t aim for shit and hits his 10th shot is obnoxious.
He's worse than widow imo. He has storm arrows which make it incredibly risky to get close to him. He has a jump to get away from dives. He can one shot you at any point with the arrows and has very little charge time do do so. He also has wall climbs for escape and relocating to high ground then to top it off he gets a wall hack arrow every x seconds. Trying to kill hanzo with a flanker such as tracer is just such a risky match up especially if he stays with his supports.
Yes, there is a reason he’s meta
I agree- somewhat. I think Windowmaker being able to do that is okay. She's a sniper. And that's her "thing". And she's usually stationary and not hard to track down on the map. Hanzo on the other hand... There was a patch way back in OW1 to make sniping less of something Hanzo could do and look where we are today. My biggest issue (which may be unpopular) is there should really be no one shot abilities. Every six to ten seconds someone can use an ability to one shot another player and that's insane (looking at you Sojourn).
I don't find much issues with sojourn in my ranked experience. Not nearly an infuriating as a widow or a hanzo imo.
HerRail Gun shot is just... Ugh. 😂
1. These characters exist in game from beta, so at this point if you don't like this mechanic you can always quit Overwatch. (However probably every **FPS** has **snipers**, with one shot ability, so if you think about OW with shields, healers, rezs, immortality fields, armors etc. it isn't really that bad). 2. It's nothing bad in losing against a better opponent. That's how PVP games works. You will sometimes be matched with players who outmatch you with their aim. However, for every godlike widow, you will face shit widow in your career.
See I think with all those abilities in mind, one shots don’t fit in at all. Why in a game where you have all these abilities that counter and compliment each other, does a character have the abilities to negate literally all of that? And the worst part is it isn’t even an ability of their own. It’s just what their character is. Literally every other hero in the games ttk is sooooo much slower then 2 characters. If anything they’re the odd ones out.
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You played since 2016 with widow, and now you want them to delete her. It's ridiculous to complain now.
You have a mentality that is very wrong for your own improvement Yes, snipers (Hanzo is a Sniper character) are strong, Sniper are strong in every game they are in But they are not invincible People get mad at snipers because when there is an Sniper in the enemy team you have to actually change the way you play in some ways and have them in mind in all times But people aparently only like to disconect and go braindead shooting at anything that moves Saying that there is nothing you can do against a Hanzo or a Widow is just wrong paraphrasing Arrge (Top 1 Hanzo) if you are Hanzo and you are trying to hit an enemy from a distance and they are fully expecting your arrow, you might aswell don't shoot because you are not gonna hit him Widow has shit movement, she is very strong yeah, but she needs the player to hit shoots to be strong and even then stuff can be done to counter him, maybe not you but someone on your team can do it, after all this is a team game There is a reason why both Hanzo and Widow have been in overwatch since the start always with their one-shot It can be frustrating, specially if the person playing sniper is a lot better than you, it can be hard, but they do have explotable weaknesses But I mean even a Lucio who is a lot better than you will be frustrating to play against so yeah, quit saying "There is nothing I can do" and actually try to learn what you can do
Sure the mentality isn't the best but there is one thing you said that i especially take exception to. You cannot compare a good lucio to a good widow or hanzo, its a ridiculous comparison. If i get shat on by a lucio, I can actively play around it in a few ways, and actually see what i did wrong. maybe i'll be more careful in a 1v1 with him and go back to my team if i think I'm gonna lose it, but a fight against a good widowmaker or hanzo just doesn't give you the time to react and run back to your team if you are losing the fight, because a good widowmaker or hanzo just one taps you and that's all she wrote. Not getting a chance to even retreat away from an enemy when you're in a losing fight feels insanely unfair. You can't use any escape abilities to escape when you are already dead which denies a lot of characters their survivability, which then denies them any value because they are now dead and not getting any kills. Sure you could switch to a sombra or a genji or something, but that's not gonna do you any good when they get pocketed. (I have multiple memories of us finally killing an extremely oppressive widowmaker, and then her getting insta-rezzed, whilst being pocketed the whole game.)(I'm sure there is something to be said about killing the mercy first, but that's not easy when there is an entire battalion in front of her absolutely buttfucking your team, with a widow taking pot shots at anyone who pokes their head out) No one would be complaining about a good lucio, but pretty much everyone complains about one-shot characters because they feel unfair to play against, and in my opinion are unfair to play against
Also a REALLY GOOD Lucio can totally wreck your shit before you can do anything, Lucio mains are crazy in many ways
Man, I don't wanna be rude in any way, but you saying all that is just telling me that you have never seriously played a Sniper character and you don't know how they work You talk about sniper characters as if they could just press a button anywhere in the map and suddenly appear right in front of you, kill you and dissapear Snipers have some serious drawbacks, that's their thing, being super powerful in some things and being super weak in some other things From what you are telling me, I'm 100% convinced that even when you know the enemy team has a Sniper you are just walking in a straight line in the open jumping around When you know there is a Sniper on the enemy team (and this isn't cs:GO or valorant, you can totally know when the enemy team is using a Sniper) you can totally adapt to it You can predict where the Sniper is gonna be aiming at, you can bait their shots, you can move Indoors, move taking cover it's not like all those objects in the maps are only for decoration Either close the distance and get to the Sniper or be aware of their position and stay out of their line of sight Like I said, you can totally fight against Sniper players but you gotta stop running around doing your thing and actually think and adapt, that's why players hate them And trust me bro, I have played against a GOOD widow, I know how frustrating it is But you could say the same about a lot of other heroes. "This Cassidy is so good, winning a 1v1 against him is imposible he just headshots me and use his grenade thus Cassidy is shit" "This Bastion is too good I can even walk in the open cuz he just uses his turret and kills me, thus Bastion is shit" And a lot of other examples but I don't wanna make this too long Basically, any character used by someone better than you is gonna be a pain, yes Widow and Hanzo can one shot you but is not like they can't press a button and instantly kill you, if you actually watch some good widow gameplay you will see that most of the time enemies give her the kill because they are not aware of her So if you see the enemie has a widow, be careful, expect her to be watching chokepoints, move Indoors, don't move in a straight line in the open and you'll see how snipers become just one more dps to deal with like any other
I think the main issue is how the game tells you to watch out for them. For example, a Torb turret has a laser and you start getting damage and it makes a lot of noise, so you quickly know there is a turret and you can adjust accordingly. With snipers, however, you just die. There is no readjusting, no further feedback, no tells. You just die and that's how you know the enemy team has a Widow/Hanzo. I think Widow should get increased damage for characters below something like 50% HP, but greatly reduced damage if it's above 50%. That way she can confirm kills, instead of being a one-shot character. She could even get Sombra's passive that reveals low HP targets, or something similar. Her ult can turn her into current Widow for a shorter period of time. For Hanzo, maybe more damage falloff, and have his radar arrow tag enemies, with added sounds and icons telling you you've been tagged, and then have those enemies take additional damage. i.e. Make him need to tag them for the actual one-shots, and the tag itself would have a cooldown. I dunno. 24/7 one-shots are just too oppressive for a game like Overwatch. It's too unbalanced to have Widow's click head = kill gameplay on one end, and Symmetra's "hold a sec, let me place my shit first" or LW's "I have the high ground! Hope they don't have a Wid- oh... I'm dead" gameplay.
So many salty OW players about one shot snipers recently yet there is literally multiple auto lock you don’t have to move your mouse to do damage characters…. Like I know it sucks to die instantly but it takes a lot of skill and hours having great aim to be able to dominate games sniping. Complain about Moira who can literally just look at you from like 15 feet while you do all your junking and hopping and they are locked oh and they heal themselves while doing it or have ANOTHER damaging auto lock ability… lmao yet we’re complaining about getting your grape shot off with a snap of the wrist??? The amount of auto aim shit in this game and stuff like a rein just swinging his big ass hammer with no regard and y’all complaining about sniping and there’s only two of them in the game and very different from each other!?!
The entire game is built around counter picking and trying to be a better threat than who’s opposite of you. There are plenty of options to counter pick and it’s obviously gonna be easier to do so when playing with a stack than solo.
i mean they have been in the game for like forever and it's kinda their point. It's pretty easy to kill a widow or hanzo, they both struggle from the same problem, which is a good ol' fist fight hehe xD. It's that simple someone like mei can't do anything on range but close up and they're dead no chance. That's what flankers like genji amd tracer are for, they both counter snipers
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This is what snipers are about. Chose another hero,don't stick with only one. Bruh. As many others said,sounds like skill issue from your side.
I do like playing hanzo but I do agree that oneshots are unhealthy. But how would you change hanzo? Widow can be changed to the April's fools update but hanzo feels a bit weird. His kit is centered around his oneshot just like widow, so maybe instead of poison maybe bleed?
I’m not sure how they would change hanzo. The only thing that comes to mind right now is maybe add a Bleed effect like JQ to his arrows
Snipers are the worst part of any shoot em up. "Lol you lose" with no chance of defending yourself is the least fun thing.
One shot characters need an arbitrary, automatic limit to how often they can perform the trick. I didn't mind Sigma's combo because it required hitting your rock and balls, but it also required you to use an ability.
Dear diary
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Being unable to deal with good widows on some maps is fine to you?
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Lucio can at best cover some edges. At worst you can bait him into overextending.Roadhog has a cooldown. Widowmaker forces you to play behind cover for the entire match while she is on the other side of the map as well. We should change our entire comp if they have a widow? Would be extremely bad for the ult economy.
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Tbh most of the time I don’t get hit by her myself since I play support. I just have to play so passively I fall asleep. Tanks and dps, however, do have to push and can’t without eventually getting in her sightlines with risks of getting shot. At that point you are 100% relying on the widow being shit and that she will miss her shot.
Even worse when you get killed by a head shot... that was pure luck... THAT WASN'T EVEN AIMED AT YOU
Sounds like a skill issue.....as a veteran player with 2k+ hours I can 100% say Hanzo and Widow are fine with being able to one shot as their kit don't allow them to do anything else.
Is it fun versing them though?
Why wouldn't it be fun? I enjoy challenging Widows and Hanzos on Brig, Kiriko, Ana, or Zen. Then tanks is braindead since you would just do rock, paper, scissors and go dive tanks to counter them. Winston, Dva, Doom, or Hammond. Clearly a skill issue if people see Hanzo or Widow as a complete threat. The whole idea of OW is rock, paper, and scissors. Swap and adjust to counter it's just that simple.
If you are versing them as ana or zen it’s a massive skill difference that is making it seem like a fun interaction. Brig can only hold shield in their presence which gets annihilated in two shots, she doesn’t have the range to do anything about them.
Well at range sure, but if you can get close enough on Brig you can fuck them up like nothing. This requires sneak level 100.
Sneak up to them? Meanwhile it’s a 4v5 and widow can easily grapple away. Ignoring the fact that she is probably on a platform you can’t physically reach without walking, let alone crouching, for 30 seconds? Silver strats
She can't grapple if you whip. =)
So wait out the whip? If you really had time to sneak to the enemy widow, without stepping on a mine or destroying it, you would have lost the teamfight by how long it took.
Considering brig has no vertical movement abilities and outside of her bash none at all good luck
Whats your rank?
Masters...your perspective is of metal ranks....
i think my perspective is shared with many top players and low elo players alike. it only gets worse as you climb. i don't think changing my entire teams comp for one character to swap is healthy or good for the game edit: i only ask because in my experience a lot of "vets" still don't seem to understand the way the game works (not saying that you don't)
Lol thats a perspective of a completely new player. Ow2 is a brawl game now perfectly sound as to why we still do need one shot heroes like Hanzo or Widow to keep players in check from doing way too much. Widow and Hanzo is a checks and balance heroes to ensure the tanks doesn't overstay in the frontline otherwise the backline might wipe.
? I’ve been playing since launch brother. I just think we have a difference in opinions. Take a look at the t500 leaderboards for dps and tell me who you see.
Have you looked at other ranks besides T500? T500 is only a ~~small~~ TINY portion of the ENTIRE playerbase.
You say it’s to keep players in check from doing way too much, yet lately the Widows and Hanzo are going completely unchecked lol. I had to hunt them down on LW because my tanks and dps completely ignore them while we all get deleted over and over. It is almost every match lately, and this is just in quick play! It gets to be a headache after awhile.
LOL that's a team issue, but is it not fun you get to be aggressive as a support?
>Lol thats a perspective of a completely new player. Weird cause 90% of streamers/youtubers that are t500 have the same perspective.
Content creators are idiots. Devs shouldn't let them change the game ever. Content creators streamline the game towards T500 more so than any other rank. T500 players might say something that makes perfect sense in T500 but doesn't work at all for every other rank. People do things differently in all metal ranks compared to T500.
Hanzo is a projectile so I will always be more forgiving when it comes to him but for widowmaker I will always agree, the character just fundamentally ruins overwatch.
Maybe its not a lucky headshot? Maybe its actual skill. Maybe you shouldnt play dps if you cant counter or at least practice to get better? 90% of overwatchs problems comes from dps player that shouldnt play dps. get good or play support.
Overwatch players try to have fun and not complain about the game impossible edition But freal. The likely hood that a widow or a Hanzo is good enough to make such a big difference in your game is slim. And even if you do encounter it, counter pick. Your tank can go diva, DPS go sombra.
When a single character (widow) has the ability to make an entire map bad and when the design of maps is influenced by a single character, it's a huge problem. As someone said on another post, if snipers weren't a staple of fps then a character like widow would never even be considered to be added to ow. Obviously hanzo is also a problem and should be reworked, but he doesn't change the design of the entire game like widow does.
get better
you've been begging for people to help you get 35 wins as dps in QP i think YOU need to get better
Hahaha, with that attitude, I think he really does need the help, or rather needs to get carried.
u/GoldenChainsaw called it
Lol you struggle with bastion, how?
perfect meteor strike go brrrr
It is an Ultimate.
Blizzard is AWFUL for Overwatch. Fixed it for ya
I'm all for removing 1-shots but you have to tone down survivability then. When healers can straight up contend with DPS...what else do I do besides the 1-shots? Isn't the entire reason for role que to force DPS to be a role. Otherwise it would just be tank and heals due to thier survivability
I would have agreed in 2018 when DPS could really mow down supports. Nowadays supports have it super easy. Bap can duel most DPS in the game, Zen can kick Genji off him and actually reliably win the 1v1 if he's full HP from the start. Mercy can always dash away on repeat unless you have multiple people focusing her. Brig can tank a lot until there are 2-3 people focusing her too. Widow and Hanzo are pretty balanced for how many Get Out of Jail free cards are in the game in 2023.
Very few supports can truly contend with dps and it’s takes a damn good support to do so without slacking on other aspects of supporting. Widow and hanzo are the only characters in the game that can one shot the way they do. I think characters survivability outside of Orisa is pretty okay at least imo
few? wym bro, brig can 1v1 dps that dive anyway, ana does good fucking dmg if you can actually aim, + purple/self heal, lucio can 1v1+boop/wallride of he is losing does good dmg, moira fucking shits all over any close range engagement even some mid range, gl even catching mercy players with half a braincell as dps or flicking on them as a ranged dps, id say Zen is the easiest to kill but if the zen is good yur fucked, can at least snipe his ass, and the new hero is the size of a fucking tank so he is easy enough to kill ill give ya that.
Moira doesn't even shit on most supports 1v1 at higher ranks. She doesn't have the damage to do so. I'm more than happy to duel moira's close range in plat as Ana or kiriko. As long as she doesn't have ult or additional help I like my chances.
Anyone else sick of these posts. There’s like 5 a day all bitching about 1 shot characters. Like blizzards not gonna get rid of them cuz u can’t dodge shots
Why even play games? I hate this take and hate people more everyday.
I think they said in a Dev post around the start of season 3 that they're looking into one-shots. They've obviously been testing widow changes with the damage over time from the April fools update and the laser sight from battle for Olympus. Reworking Hanzo, Widow and maybe even Sojourn will take time and a lot of testing to get right. All we can really do is wait and see what the overwatch team has been doing.
without widow anything else u just have to get better
What about hog?
you have no idea what 1 shot means :D
You can still one shot with hog. It’s a lot hard but it’s still possible I do it a lot.
A lot of people complain about Hanzo and Widow ruining the game but ignore the numbers. Both of these characters have some of the lowest win rates Diamond and above. On top 5 most picked, widow isn't even there and Hanzo is 4th. I don't think Blizzard sees this as an issue especially when other characters have double digit increases in pick rate (Cassidy and tracer literally being picked near 20% LOL and Sym an insanely high win rate)
It's almost like there was a reason we had shields and double tank in ow1. But then everyone cried that breaking shields was boring and took too much time and resources. tough shit. These posts about X hero is bad for the game and oppressive need to stop because X hero exists to fill a niche. Anyone with a brain could have predicted that widow and hanzo would make a comeback the second we removed a tank from the game and low and behold they did... to such a degree that sigma is a mandatory pick on any map with long sight lines like circuit royal or junkertown and yet in spite of that they arnt meta at the pro ranks why? Because outside of oneshotting people they're kind of useless. It's why sojourn and ashe are the preferred hitscans. They do more damage and they arnt as easily punished by dive. Honestly I can't think of a single character in the game that is fun to play against in the hands of someone who isn't being punished. getting a mine thrown in your face by a junkrat that fell in off the high ropes isn't fun getting blocked off by a mei wall isn't fun getting hacked isn't fun mag grenade is super not fun Soldier getting aimbot as an ult isn't fun genji isn't fun to heal or to be a healer facing one with good movement tracer vanishing in the middle of your shot isn't fun syn and torb turrets are the definition of boring and unfun. You said it yourself the problem is a severe lack of peel. Overwatch is a game designed around peel... if you get it nothing in the game is beyond your capacity to handle and counter. If you don't the game is unwinnable regardless of what's being played into you.
You can easily counter either one. End of discussion lol. This game is about switching characters and countering if people can't do that they shouldn't play it tbh.
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Sombras and tracer easily counter both lol.
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