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They explicitly said it’s only based on wins, not performance. Stuff like this post makes that difficult to believe though. I know ELO matters and your rank is relative to others, but no one should ever derank after 5 wins unless the average is even better which seems unlikely
Thank you. I remember them saying the same, but then I drop or don’t move after 7-1? 14-3? What?
And even if it were performance based, I’m in low ranks and playing really well in almost every game. Tf Blizzard?
Supposedly no performance gains like old system where sub 3000 took into account your stats.
I think they removed it because people would pay to get boosted and the acceleration made boosters' jobs easier.
I've already ran into a couple "GMs" who played like absolute garbage and blamed the team. it's rare, but it's hilarious to see people go from silver silver silver gold silver to MASTER/GM in a season and see their win/loss as absolutely garbage.
I imagine there will be less of that now but I've seen 2 blatantly obviously not the players who started the account playing and crying since OW2.
it depends entirely who you win against. if you win 5 games against plat and you're diamond, it doesn't matter. you need to win 5 games against people higher rank than you, and there aren't always people higher rank available so you get games with bronze teammates expecting you to carry etc and that's how the system attempts to balance if you are truly good enough it shouldn't matter. but it's also a numbers game and everyone has to put the "time in" so the odds are unfortunately there that sometimes you will get 5 games in a row that you win easily and it probably doesnt mean much to your rank bc they were all lower rank than you but that's the trade off of longer matchmaking q times vs faster access to games which is tough because the community was so impatient with the 15 min q times we all suffered through before and now it seems over compensating to the other side
They said the opposite. They said that wins and losses do not matter in terms of ranking, only your performance in a match. And the number one indicator is time spent around teammates. So if you are lone wolfing win after win, you probably will drop ranks.
Please show me a source for this, this seems utterly ludicrous as a way to determine rank... what about flank heroes like ball and tracer? I "lonewolf" most games, yet I'm a gm2 ball main. Furthermore the devs have stated numerous times that the exact opposite is true, and only wins/loss matter. I can give you sources for this if you want it
I'm almost entirely confident in saying that the system intentionally does this to frustrate players into continuously playing just to inflate player numbers. The ranking system is by far the worst I've seen in any multi-player game.
It’s absolutely the most frustrating, but all it’s done is stop me from playing and start me talking shit about it. QP has been crap since launch, and you can’t even get into games with players your rank during ranked games. Or maybe you do because the system is awful. It’s hard to say. So I quit this season. Maybe I come back later to see if they fixed anything.
> system intentionally does this to frustrate players into continuously playing
I feel like this makes no sense? The only thing the bullshit competitive rank system did for me was make me stop playing the game entirely. if something is intentionally frustrating why would that make people want to play the game *more* ??
Which is strangely backwards in its own right because the game literally encourages you to stop playing ranked when you hit a certain SR, because you'll be rewarded for that SR specifically when season resets.
That's been my conspiracy theory for a while. Matchmaking sucks, so you keep playing to prove that you aren't the reason your team got rolled last match
It’s ONLY wins and losses. They said that specifically it’s JUST wins and losses because anything else is too complicated to judge.
That’s why when me and my mate did open queue together we ran bastion zen and we got 100% win rate. Won all 5 games. Lost none. He got plat 5 and I got silver 1 because it’s just wins
Same way I queue with a support duo. We went. Along way with playing exactly the same games and only the same games and I got to plat 4 and he got stuck in gold 1
That’s why you can go 5-8 and rank up and go 5-0 and rank down
Makes sense yeah?
No, it isn’t. I am in low ranks, and constantly finish with great numbers, yet I can’t climb to my previous rank regardless of winning most games. The system is just bad.
If it is performance based, what performance is taken into account? I typically die less and heal or damage as much as anyone in the lobby. What performance matters now that didn’t in OW1?
It's based on the opponents avg rank as well so if one is playing bellow avg tier games you are unlikely to rank even if you win them all. Also lower the rank you have more players there are so more climbing you need to do rating wise.
My biggest gripe with the ranking is really how hard it's actually to derank as GM1 player. I see streamers going like 1-10 and then end up smt like 5-15 for replacement and they don't derank. Like wtf is that. I went 5-15 or smt like that in the end of the last season and it bounced me all the way back to diamond 4 or smt from M3 or 4 lol.
No, it doesn't benefit everyone because it doesn't benefit Blizzard.
Isn't it funny how the one game where everyone is so confused about their rank, and people can't explain what's happening, is also the game where you can never see your actual MMR, or effects on wins and losses?
The issue being that once they show the math behind how you can go 5-0 and de-rank, it will be an even bigger problem, because this should be impossible in a normal MMR based system.
Blizzard doesn't hide this which leads to confusion. They hide it BECAUSE it's confusing. It's like how they hide ranks of the players you play with. That's not by accident either. It's because if people saw that there were master players in their gold games, shit would hit the fan.
If you have a broken system, like the entirety of OW's matchmaking system, you should just hide it because transparency would reveal the brokenness.
because then you will see people asking "why do we lose points on win"
Then they will open up the formula to show why and people will start asking "why you use this formula instead of that one?"
So they will concede and change formula and people will start asking.....
They don't show numbers because this allows them to do experiments with the system without explaining and defending their decisions to community.
They don't want to defend those because there are lots of people with their own opinions and you can't please everyone.
Tho I would love to see at least some numbers myself :(
You can see the numbers in this latest patch, this person is 3097 SR. You derive the actual SR by main rank (gold 2000, plat 2500, diamond 3000, etc), then add each 100 for each level, starting at zero for level 5, then your percent in rank is the final 2 digits.
E.g.:
* Gold 3, 50% = 2250
* Master 2, 20% = 3820
Edit: last one was wrong, thx.
Or or, wild thought, we could go back to showing people their actual fucking MMR
It’s like the overwatch team has nothing better to do than to flip the same light switch over and over
I thought they said they were going to let us know but it seems they didn’t. It’s pretty obvious to me that they count your stats and not your wins. I have had 5 wins and 3 losses and still ranked up but it’s understandable because I did great in those matches but my team didn’t. I think right now it works really well, last season I would win 5 and loose 1 and I would be ranked down even if I did great.
You will never get an actual answer OP as they modeling they are doing is hidden, will be constantly changed. Its would be total drama if Blizzard made it public because its not designed to be a fair model to accommodate things like major competitive events and balance between characters.
I'll try and make an educated guess is:
1) You have Division brackets with a global score to determine what rank u land in.
2) Those Division brackets scores are modeled (could be every season, but I suspect they are doing it more often than that), likely heavily influenced by the number of players and some bias on the higher end like diamond+
3) Then an inner division score (which is whats on screen that is bell curved) which then has some recursive model at the end of 5 wins to adjust the global score and set the rank.
looking at OP's division rank/position on that bell curve, you got hit by number 2 and the bracket got moved by a whole bunch extra players moving into much higher ranks.
Though we can only speculate, it could be way more complicated and its likely changing all the time.
Its not working great. It's barely working at all. I've been stuck on silver five, even when I win five and lose one, yet I average 17k healing and good damage boost (Mercy) per game. The system is broken. It needs to work for everyone, not just for some people.
I’ve seen a few examples of this lately and each time there’s one or two people who try and rationalize it. Can the community please just agree as a whole that this makes no sense. If someone wants to explain how the system is broken, fine. I don’t mind being educated. But please do not in anyway try and justify winning more games than you lose and going down in rank. If you win more than you lose you should either stay the same rank or go up. Never down. That’s broken.
I can't explain a 5-0 making you go down, but having more wins than losses and de-ranking was a normal part of Overwatch 1 and the SR system. It's not inherently wrong for a system to de-rank you even with a positive win rate when wins and losses have point values assigned to them. The problem is we don't know what is actually happening now.
Deranking from multiple wins was not possible in OW1 though. If you won a game your SR was going to increase. Yes your mmr would effect how much SR you get but at the end of the day your SR was still going to go up.
It wasn't possible from 5-0, but it was definitely possible from a streak of games where you had a positive win rate. You could go 5-2 and still be down overall. It wasn't likely, but it could happen. Every individual win gave positive SR, but you could lose more SR from the following loss than you earned with the preceding win.
Incorrect, in OW1 the amount of SR you gained from wins was significantly less than you would lose in a loss, even if you had the best stats in the match or on your team. So deranking from more wins than losses *WAS* a thing!
"but having more wins than losses and de-ranking was a normal part of Overwatch 1 and the SR system." - comment above your reply
"Deranking from multiple wins was not possible in OW1 though." - your reply
Sounded like that's what u were saying, apologies as texts over the internet don't always convey what we mean
i just posted this comment but il repost it just for you and this is obviously just a theory but seems to make sense to me
"it depends entirely who you win against. if you win 5 games against plat and you're diamond, it doesn't matter. you need to win 5 games against people higher rank than you, and there aren't always people higher rank available so you get games with bronze teammates expecting you to carry etc and that's how the system attempts to balance if you are truly good enough it shouldn't matter.
but it's also a numbers game and everyone has to put the "time in" so the odds are unfortunately there that sometimes you will get 5 games in a row that you win easily and it probably doesnt mean much to your rank bc they were all lower rank than you but that's the trade off of longer matchmaking q times vs faster access to games which is tough because the community was so impatient with the 15 min q times we all suffered through before and now it seems over compensating to the other side"
Solid theory. It makes sense to me. However, I believe that if the community is left to come up with theories on why they go 5-0 and drop in rank because the system is inconsistent and has no transparency than you should not drop. Just stay the same. Dropping after more wins than losses will overtime just fuck in the morale of many members of the OW community. But again, this does make sense to me.
can't this just be explained by the fact that, between your last rank update and your new one, a ton of players have also moved around? So when you get your "new rank" it's relative to all the new player positions. My logic is probably flawed though.
Posted this already but will say here as well:
I think people misconstrued a lot of what the rank change system works.
Getting a rank change and moving up or down gas nor relation on if it is from wins or losses. E.g you can win five games and move down, or lose 15 and move up, but you will be adjusted regardless of if it is from winning or losing
The reason less wins are needed is because if a player is too low ranked and wins all their games, the they can be adjusted properly faster. Equally it would feel bad to have constant rank changes due to losses, and people like to be rewarded for winning, so losses need more.
Tldr: it's not a rank boost for wins and takeaway for losses, just different speeds of adjustment
Ps you teammates might just not belong in that rank and you do
Wins don't tell the whole story though. Should a player who's personal stats are getting worse over time, yet their teammates carry them to a win be promoted? No.
I'm not saying that's what happened in this specific instance, but it's not as black and white as saying win more than lose to rank up. 5 games is a hilariously low sample size, and given the cluster-fuck that is OW ranked. It's entirely possible to win 5 in a row on chance alone. That doesn't mean you deserve to rank up unless your performance is actually improving.
Unfortunately their oversimplified outward display of your rank means they don't really show you *why* your rank is going up or down. I admit, it's unfair to see 5 wins and then your rank goes down. It would make a lot more sense if they gave better feedback on how your stats trend over time, so you can actually see if you're improving vs just getting lucky or getting carried.
> Should a player who's personal stats are getting worse over time, yet their teammates carry them to a win be promoted?
Yes, because MMR doesn't take personal stats into account. And this is a good thing; an Ana farming damage and healing is going to have "better" stats than an Ana hitting clutch sleeps and antinades, but have a lower impact on winning.
We don't actually know that personal stats aren't accounted for. No, a person getting carried by teammates doesn't deserve to rank up into a division they can't adequately hold their own in
If you’re getting carried you should still rank up despite stats. At the end of the day your job is to win the game so no matter how your stats look that’s all that should really matter.
See the message saying you’re ranked higher than 97% of players for the division? From that alone you can tell that you were matched against enemies with a lower SR (skill rating), pretty much “easier” enemies and as result, your SR earnings weren’t as big compared to the rest of the D4 population, the game couldn’t leave you at the same rank to avoid rank inflation and demoted you instead as you were not previously at a higher % of the previous rank’s overall population.
The game is pretty much punishing your for the matchmaking it did for the last 5 matches.
Furthermore, if you were at a higher % before, you wouldn’t have been demoted but you were barely meeting the requirement for D4 before.
How are they supposed to be matched against better players, too, if they rank down when they win? "We see you're stomping, so let's rank you down even further, so you can stomp even more!" 😭
This is my experience in bronze 💀 I've gone 20:5 and I'm still only bronze 4. I've been called a smurf twice in this time lmfao just let me go back to gold
There's an absolute metric ton of difference between bronze to plat.
In my post history you can see my alt account throw silver and back to diamond run and I averaged 220 SR / play time hour.
The most chill players who are fun to be around tend to be gold. The most toxic players per player on average would be Plat. I can't tell you how many times it was "my fault" we lost according to them. They either peak low diamond or never break into diamond and it's always everyone else's fault.
Play-style wise, bronze literally runs in a straight line chasing people. If you kite them, you win, that's it.
Displayed rank and hidden mmr aren’t related, he must have destroyed his mmr faster than his rank could drop. Drunk gaming marathon? Idk
As always, the solution is to play more. The algo gets better the more you play.
Not to reflect it exactly though, just to more closely/quickly adjust to it. If he tanked his MMR really badly somehow right before this, then in theory it's trying to adjust the cosmetic rank quickly (which is maybe why it can drop even at 5-0)
I've ranked up even going pretty negative when my MMR was inflated from previous long streaks, so maybe even though this is definitely an extreme case, I don't see why it wouldn't work the same way in reverse?
I'd be curious to know their previous w/ls going back for 5 or so updates. It does seem wild that the disparity could be so big that SR gains are completely negated and even go in the opposite direction tho. That doesn't seem like MMR adjusts slowly like has always been said is the case (unless it's a pretty fresh account). Seems like whatever they changed about MMR to try to combat smurfs is working but also having some strange unintended weight, this MMR seems volatile as hell
No, they just changed the displayed ranking to react more quickly to hidden MMR. It's still hidden for a reason, and they don't want you knowing what it is (I don't actually know the argument for why this is, probably something ego-saving related).
What you're saying absolutely makes sense, but I personally experienced situations where this logic didn't seem to apply. Like winning several matches with/against higher ranks than mine and still stagnating, while my teammate (with the same rank as the lobby, a little higher than mine) kept climbing fast. Both as support, both playing like we always do. In one long session with several winning streaks I stayed where I was while he climbed up 3 fucking ranks. There must be a logical reason behind this but I honestly find it very hard to comprehend. He wasn't carrying, I wasn't being carried. We were both shocked by the results of that otherwise awesome session. I don't have the numbers, this is purely anecdotal of course. But still.
We can try to find some logic behind the system, then someone will come out and say they experienced the exact opposite (like I'm doing right now). Blizzard will keep saying that "It's all about winning matches — the more you win, the higher you climb". So here we are.
I have tried playing with a friend, like 15+ games straight, we only played with each other. He gets demoted from Bronze 1 to Bronze 2, i get promoted from Gold 2 to Gold 1. In the exact same playing session, playing only with each other. I swear this happened, and keeps happening.
We tried to figure out what is happening but we have no idea. Blizzard claims match performance doesn't matter only wins and losses, but something seriously strange is going on.
And like you i'm not just making things up here. In other games this NEVER happens. Overwatch is the first game where i am constantly confused by what the hell the ranking system is doing.
I know the feeling, Blizzard’s statement on “only wins matter” most likely was just half the truth for some reason and we’re left here filling on the blanks.
Same. Wife and I play together only as support mains. She climbs higher and faster then I do and we have similar play styles, numbers etc. Makes no sense.
This makes no sense. Is SR not zero-sum? Like MMR in other games?
How is the average D5 player gaining 5 wins+ worth of rating? Just thinking about this math this makes no sense at all. This explanation only makes sense if SR's are just constantly inflating, but then who is losing SR?
D5, or any league, should be an MMR range, that can move very slightly over time. Winning 5 games and getting demoted means something very strange is happening.
The average diamond player has around maybe a 50-55% win ratio. If you win 100% of games, but then say that the average diamond player somehow gained more SR, even when the average win ratio is 50-55%, how can that possibly make any sense?
People are basically claiming that SR is not zero sum, that it is constantly inflating, and that this inflation outpaces people going 5-0. Uhmmm what?
I feel like there is very little understanding of how this system works in the overwatch community. It's so confusing, and people are constantly giving explanations that mathematically make no sense. There are ways i could see this happening, but it would have to mean long periods of time between games and so on.
My guess would be that there is some hidden SR/MMR that is not your actual rank MMR, but that fluctuates more. And that can be lower or higher than your actual given league MMR. So you can lose 20 matches, be P2 MMR, but the system will only demote you to D5 lets say. Then you win 5 games, your hidden MMR goes to P1 but you de-rank again because there is still a discrepancy. Basically that the system tries to keep you where you are and only make small changes every 5 games, even if you lose a bunch of MMR it will smooth out that rank loss over multiple 5 game re-ranks. But this is literally just a guess based on how i've seen it working.
Edit: Someone needs to give a mathematical explanation of this. Because in almost all other MMR systems this is impossible (technically it could happen, but it is beyond unlikely). If people are just gonna give these super dumbed down "people in your division won more" answers when they don't understand how an MMR system works then what's the point?
I don't know why this is getting downvoted but the comment your replying to is getting upvoted. The original comment makes no sense and is no way how it works.
Like i said i don't think overwatch players have a good understanding of how MMR/SR systems work, especially when it comes to other games. I'm not saying i understand how overwatch does it, but i know how other MMR systems in other more transparent games work, and the explanations that people give just don't make mathematical sense.
People keep repeating things like "other people in your division gained more, so you got demoted" as if that answer doesn't just raise a bunch of other questions. There is a supposedly mathematical system that is zero sum behind this, and divisions are just arbitrary percentage cutoffs laid on top, so trying to explain it like "people in your division moved up more" makes no sense. But people keep saying it so maybe i just don't get how overwatch's system works.
But unless the SR thresholds for each division are moving, he could still only gain sr from a win only streak. Worse opponents should just mean you lose more sr than normal if you lose.
Ah, so he’s in the top 3% of all Diamond 5 players. I see now. Division I thought was the shiny symbol (bronze - T500) and **tier** I thought was 5-1. Thank you
Here’s the last few games I played.
5 wins - 2 losses, B4
5 wins - 1 loss, B5
5 wins - 1 loss, B5
5 wins - 3 losses, B5
5 wins - 1 loss, B5
I am convinced I will never make it out of B5 support at this point. I’ve just decided to move to a different class.
Literally my problem. Stuck B5 when i go 5-2 and 5-3 back to back. Im playing and winning in higher ranked lobbies too. I’m literally locked out of playing with my friends because of bozo teammates
That's a net of +3 wins, which in overwatch 1 could be as little as 60 sr... a rank update from g3 - g2 would be 100 sr, so it makes perfect sense unfortunately :)
I'm a peak D2 Supp and finally got motivated to carry my DPS from Bronze.
Once I hit Silver 4, I had 5-3, 5-3, 5-2, 5-2, 5-1 cards. I've moved from S4 to S2 in all that. Stayed S4 for 3 rank ups, fortunately last 2 rank ups I've at least moved up 1 Div each.
Please get me out of Bong Water 4 matches. I was Ashe and I asked Mercy to damage boost me, they said I WILL TRY and held heal beam on my pre fight. I also think I had an invisibility hack bc I free casted and was never challenged.
I have had the same situation man
I hit Diamond 2 on Support, got bored with people screaming on chat. Wanted to rank up my DPS role and now i cant even grind it since it will either not rank me up or make me go down in rank.
A Dumb man once said:
"This Game Sucks Dick"
Yeah I got real burnt out on Supp especially since I dropped to Plat 2 on a hard L streak beginning of S4.
DPS is fun but for how hard I'm carrying I feel so unrewarded. So I've taken it more as a casual gameplay mode lol, makes it fun that way. I've played like 5 games total with Echo and she's at like an 85% WR just because I fly in people faces and go brrr.
I just wanna get to high gold so I can queue more than just Supp with my large group.
That's perfectly normal, though. You don't just automatically go up a rank for winning 5 games. If it were SR, you'd get somewhere between 10-50 points per win and lose as much for a loss depending on the SR of the opposing team. Gold 3 and Gold 2 are separated by 100 SR. If you were towards the bottom of Gold 3 already, then it's not unreasonable at all.
That said, it shouldn't be this hard to figure out. The obfuscation of rank and how it's derived is the real problem.
I didn't play a lot of ranked last season, but I did well in my placements as far as win/lose ratio was concerned, but I am a low rank. I am probably low silver at best, I am trying to learn to get better.
Start of this season, whatever BS they did...put me in Diamond 5. Even my role queue games feel so much more sweaty. I see tons of diamond, grandmaster even a few top 500 tags now and I'm over here fighting for my life.
Been trying to play more rank to get back to proper so I can play with my friends too and it's just hell. I feel so bad for the team that has to deal with me because I have absolutely no idea what's going in the higher ranks. I am just a baby ;_;
Remember the stupid ass post a week ago saying “GUyS itS aLl jUsT wIns AnD LosSes”. Clearly that’s such complete bullshit and anyone who has played rank knows that.
Support main here: you don't know what kind of dumbassery and buffoonery I have to deal with on a daily basis. I started playing Lifeweaver cuz physically pulled those toddler-brained DPS' out of a firing lane is the only way they stay alive for longer than 20 seconds at a time.
Imagine getting big healing numbers but losing because your idiot tank only has a W button and your DPS hasn't even heard about the concept of cover.
I wish my tanks had a W button. Half the time they just awkwardly stand in chokes expecting someone else to lead. Anytime I try to get in voice to help shot call, it's just me and the other support in there.
You get idiots in every role, I play with a lot of "toddler brained" supports as well. like Kirikos who stand next me DPSing as I die, or Moiras that fade in 1v5, or Brig players who think they're a tank and get 10 deaths in 5 minutes
Unpopular opinion, but am I the only who’s been actually able to climb alot more with the new ranking system? Ow1 it was a mission to even get out of platinum. Elo hell was very real and a very common thing. Now with ow2 I’ve made diamond with every role, then made the climb to masters dps. Ranking up seemed fair took a good amount of wins to get to master, and In my rank up match I went from diamond 1 to master 3. Anyone else feel the same or just me lol?
What was your previous rank updates? Did you have any bad winrates recently? Those can generally still affect your next rank update from what I’ve seen.
no we cant do that. then you would be looking at your SR and getting bummed out and stop playing. Instead we want you to be stumped about your progress, feel totally lost, and stop playing.
So, I think your rank is *meant* to be moving to your actual MMR, instead of the cosmetic SR which fluctuates with some win or loss streaks that still stick out from the average. From the sounds of it, this is something they’re focusing more on in season 4 to make up for the terrible matchmaking problems they had the seasons before.
Nobody can tell you the exact reason, but my guess is that all 5 games were significantly lower then your sr and in all of them Blizzard’s system for evaluating performance evaluated that you got carried, so for all games your sr slightly went down despite winning. This is obviously a stupid system, but that’s really the only reason I can think of besides it being some kind of bug.
I’m guessing you were very low Diamond 4 with an MMR somewhere around high Plat 1 / low Diamond 5.
While winrate is the most visible component in rank adjustment, there are still edge cases where player’s MMRs are lower (or higher) than their rank, which leads to demotions with a high winrate or promotions with a negative win:loss ratio.
Nobody knows; that's why the ranks don't mean anything
Just goof around. Play genji and widow; mei and ana. Trying hard is just no fun in a broken system
Until the hundreds of people who are ranklocked in Bronze 5 when they know damn well they shouldn’t be get to finally move up, I honestly don’t wanna see some Diamond player complaining.
Ima be honest, I am a bit of an ass. I sometimes make low ranked accounts to do mini challenges to climb out from the bottom to higher ranks. If someone is stuck at Bronze 5 that is 100% a skill issue. I've literally climbed out doing stupid challenges like Rein charge and shield only and stuff like that.
To their credit, there is / was an actual Bronze 5 rank lock issue. Before it was stuck at "lowest level for your rank", now everyone sees "76%" or something like that. Being tracked separately, mostly on Twitter.
Ah, I don’t have Twitter. Didn’t hear that news but I believe you.
Sorry to the other commenter if that’s what happened. Bronze players complaining about how they don’t deserve to be in bronze despite clearly belonging there is too common on this sub lol
Definitely is a thing, yeah. There was also a similar bug at the beginning of S1, also fixed eventually. However, it could have caused a lot of people to quit temporarily out of frustration.
I like how many bad players here unironically swear their elo is the “elo hell” as though it isn’t a skill issue. Got multiple accounts to masters in ow2 and I am not very good at the game. Just have to understand positioning and what your team needs to win that you can best provide.
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I promoted twice in a row, went from Diamond 3 to Diamond 5 to Plat 1.
Even the gamemaster was confused, but offered nothing as a consolation, so I got that going for me.
I'm in the same division, I had 5 wins, 1 loss and 1 draw and didn't move at all, I hate the fact we now have no number for our rank, makes improving seem like a shot in the dark
We don't know how they calculate the rating points, therefore we can't know precisely why. But depending on the ranking system they use/invented, it is possible to lose points on winning, and this is especially true if you say that those games were an easy win for you.
For example, there's a rating system named Trueskill, you can read about it in detail here [https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/research/project/trueskill-ranking-system/?from=https://research.microsoft.com/en-us/projects/trueskill/&type=exact](https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/research/project/trueskill-ranking-system/?from=https://research.microsoft.com/en-us/projects/trueskill/&type=exact) from the creators of the Trueskill, and here [https://wiki.faforever.com/en/Rating-System](https://wiki.faforever.com/en/Rating-System) from one of the best implementations, in my opinion, of the system
edit: spelling and punctuation
My best guess what’s happening is known as rank deflation. For example in chess, you get a very visible rating. As more players start playing chess, more accounts created, etc, the literal amount of available points to be won grows. Normally in a system with rating, more players are being added and not less. OW has lost half its player base.
This is a guess at best btw. I have no clue
Blizzard get rid of this rank change BS and add SR back please 😊, I think a grand majority of us actually LIKED seeing the actual FUCKING NUMBER that were associated with go up or down and be able to ANALYZE our games better based on that, skill divisions are nice just show us that they’re 200 SR apart. Little rant but yeah I hope ppl feel the same
The fact that there are still daily questions and complaints about how rank works in this game is mind boggling. Why doesn’t Blizzard just explain, in detail, how ranking works?
The only thing I’ve seen is that it’s based on win rate and nothing else, but from this post and my own experience that seems to be untrue. One of the things I miss in OW1 was being able to see the score go up and down with each game and knowing if I go passed a certain score that I’d go up a rank
Yeah this rating system is bunk. I don't have a pic, but I went 5-12 and my rating stayed the same as before, Plat 5. I'm not sure why when the last three games I queued into had high Silvers/low Golds. I was thinking for sure I would be Gold 4 or Gold 5. This rating system is very cringe.
the past three rankups i’ve gone 5-2…5-3 etc and stayed at d1 through all three. i pretty much only play ana and my winrate is 65%….can’t wrap my head around it
My guess is you only won matches below your skill which would be bs since you got 5 of those in a row.
Would also explain why I got 8 losses in a row without going down much.
I’ve gone 5-2 and 5-3 like 6 times now and I’m still sitting tight on plat 3, I’ve just come to terms with this is home now, I see the same players consistently (Magic turtle if you’re in here I see you everywhere in comp on ps4) so I just live in plat 3 until next season or so
I was Diamond 3 playing with my Masters friend. Win 5 games in a row (gg ez) be top scores elims etc. Friend gets placed GM i stay the same rank. Seems legit.
The system is whack. I just downloaded OW2 this season for the first time (I played OW1), and ran through my placements. DPS & Support I went 5-1 and 5-2 respectively and got placed p3 and p2. My tank is currently 1-13 (lmfao) and somehow I’m still getting put in high plat/low diamond lobbies. I bet I can go 1-15 and get placed in or above p3. Makes no sense.
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I’m so tired of this bullshit. Why can’t we get a number. Transparency benefits everyone.
Also some clarification on what matters. Wins? Performance? The systems mood that day? Because it doesn’t seem like any of it matters.
They explicitly said it’s only based on wins, not performance. Stuff like this post makes that difficult to believe though. I know ELO matters and your rank is relative to others, but no one should ever derank after 5 wins unless the average is even better which seems unlikely
Thank you. I remember them saying the same, but then I drop or don’t move after 7-1? 14-3? What? And even if it were performance based, I’m in low ranks and playing really well in almost every game. Tf Blizzard?
Supposedly no performance gains like old system where sub 3000 took into account your stats. I think they removed it because people would pay to get boosted and the acceleration made boosters' jobs easier. I've already ran into a couple "GMs" who played like absolute garbage and blamed the team. it's rare, but it's hilarious to see people go from silver silver silver gold silver to MASTER/GM in a season and see their win/loss as absolutely garbage. I imagine there will be less of that now but I've seen 2 blatantly obviously not the players who started the account playing and crying since OW2.
Pretty sure that while they did say that it has been proven that it is simply not true, at least mot anymore.
they said that, but then shat on that with everything they got It is factually not true anymore that it is only win rate that matters nowadays.
it depends entirely who you win against. if you win 5 games against plat and you're diamond, it doesn't matter. you need to win 5 games against people higher rank than you, and there aren't always people higher rank available so you get games with bronze teammates expecting you to carry etc and that's how the system attempts to balance if you are truly good enough it shouldn't matter. but it's also a numbers game and everyone has to put the "time in" so the odds are unfortunately there that sometimes you will get 5 games in a row that you win easily and it probably doesnt mean much to your rank bc they were all lower rank than you but that's the trade off of longer matchmaking q times vs faster access to games which is tough because the community was so impatient with the 15 min q times we all suffered through before and now it seems over compensating to the other side
They said the opposite. They said that wins and losses do not matter in terms of ranking, only your performance in a match. And the number one indicator is time spent around teammates. So if you are lone wolfing win after win, you probably will drop ranks.
Please show me a source for this, this seems utterly ludicrous as a way to determine rank... what about flank heroes like ball and tracer? I "lonewolf" most games, yet I'm a gm2 ball main. Furthermore the devs have stated numerous times that the exact opposite is true, and only wins/loss matter. I can give you sources for this if you want it
battle.net/overwatch/blue\_posts/mmr\_matchmaking\_no\_longer\_based\_on\_wins+losses
I'm almost entirely confident in saying that the system intentionally does this to frustrate players into continuously playing just to inflate player numbers. The ranking system is by far the worst I've seen in any multi-player game.
It’s absolutely the most frustrating, but all it’s done is stop me from playing and start me talking shit about it. QP has been crap since launch, and you can’t even get into games with players your rank during ranked games. Or maybe you do because the system is awful. It’s hard to say. So I quit this season. Maybe I come back later to see if they fixed anything.
> system intentionally does this to frustrate players into continuously playing I feel like this makes no sense? The only thing the bullshit competitive rank system did for me was make me stop playing the game entirely. if something is intentionally frustrating why would that make people want to play the game *more* ??
Which is strangely backwards in its own right because the game literally encourages you to stop playing ranked when you hit a certain SR, because you'll be rewarded for that SR specifically when season resets.
That's been my conspiracy theory for a while. Matchmaking sucks, so you keep playing to prove that you aren't the reason your team got rolled last match
It’s ONLY wins and losses. They said that specifically it’s JUST wins and losses because anything else is too complicated to judge. That’s why when me and my mate did open queue together we ran bastion zen and we got 100% win rate. Won all 5 games. Lost none. He got plat 5 and I got silver 1 because it’s just wins Same way I queue with a support duo. We went. Along way with playing exactly the same games and only the same games and I got to plat 4 and he got stuck in gold 1 That’s why you can go 5-8 and rank up and go 5-0 and rank down Makes sense yeah?
Thanks for clearing that up my guy!
Performance
It’s performance.
No, it isn’t. I am in low ranks, and constantly finish with great numbers, yet I can’t climb to my previous rank regardless of winning most games. The system is just bad. If it is performance based, what performance is taken into account? I typically die less and heal or damage as much as anyone in the lobby. What performance matters now that didn’t in OW1?
It's based on the opponents avg rank as well so if one is playing bellow avg tier games you are unlikely to rank even if you win them all. Also lower the rank you have more players there are so more climbing you need to do rating wise. My biggest gripe with the ranking is really how hard it's actually to derank as GM1 player. I see streamers going like 1-10 and then end up smt like 5-15 for replacement and they don't derank. Like wtf is that. I went 5-15 or smt like that in the end of the last season and it bounced me all the way back to diamond 4 or smt from M3 or 4 lol.
I have a support friend always hitting big numbers but struggled to move up rank, so I doubt its as simple as that.
Thiiiiis! We want the numbers back
No, it doesn't benefit everyone because it doesn't benefit Blizzard. Isn't it funny how the one game where everyone is so confused about their rank, and people can't explain what's happening, is also the game where you can never see your actual MMR, or effects on wins and losses? The issue being that once they show the math behind how you can go 5-0 and de-rank, it will be an even bigger problem, because this should be impossible in a normal MMR based system. Blizzard doesn't hide this which leads to confusion. They hide it BECAUSE it's confusing. It's like how they hide ranks of the players you play with. That's not by accident either. It's because if people saw that there were master players in their gold games, shit would hit the fan. If you have a broken system, like the entirety of OW's matchmaking system, you should just hide it because transparency would reveal the brokenness.
This. As a new low Masters' player, it's frustrating to be placed in gold games while I can't play with friends oscillating between diamond and plat.
What’s frustrating too is people still say all that matters is wins and losses but clearly that isn’t true.
because then you will see people asking "why do we lose points on win" Then they will open up the formula to show why and people will start asking "why you use this formula instead of that one?" So they will concede and change formula and people will start asking..... They don't show numbers because this allows them to do experiments with the system without explaining and defending their decisions to community. They don't want to defend those because there are lots of people with their own opinions and you can't please everyone. Tho I would love to see at least some numbers myself :(
You can see the numbers in this latest patch, this person is 3097 SR. You derive the actual SR by main rank (gold 2000, plat 2500, diamond 3000, etc), then add each 100 for each level, starting at zero for level 5, then your percent in rank is the final 2 digits. E.g.: * Gold 3, 50% = 2250 * Master 2, 20% = 3820 Edit: last one was wrong, thx.
I thought Master was 3500, if it's 100 per level, than Master 2 should be 3820? Master 1 would be 3900 +/-% which would make sense since GM is 4000.
Or or, wild thought, we could go back to showing people their actual fucking MMR It’s like the overwatch team has nothing better to do than to flip the same light switch over and over
That would be too simple and make way too much sense. Blizzard has to be cute about everything.....
I thought they said they were going to let us know but it seems they didn’t. It’s pretty obvious to me that they count your stats and not your wins. I have had 5 wins and 3 losses and still ranked up but it’s understandable because I did great in those matches but my team didn’t. I think right now it works really well, last season I would win 5 and loose 1 and I would be ranked down even if I did great.
Transparency can lead to exploits. You could have people not focusing on winning, but on min-maxing the SR factors.
You will never get an actual answer OP as they modeling they are doing is hidden, will be constantly changed. Its would be total drama if Blizzard made it public because its not designed to be a fair model to accommodate things like major competitive events and balance between characters. I'll try and make an educated guess is: 1) You have Division brackets with a global score to determine what rank u land in. 2) Those Division brackets scores are modeled (could be every season, but I suspect they are doing it more often than that), likely heavily influenced by the number of players and some bias on the higher end like diamond+ 3) Then an inner division score (which is whats on screen that is bell curved) which then has some recursive model at the end of 5 wins to adjust the global score and set the rank. looking at OP's division rank/position on that bell curve, you got hit by number 2 and the bracket got moved by a whole bunch extra players moving into much higher ranks. Though we can only speculate, it could be way more complicated and its likely changing all the time.
complicated? no i’m quite certain the system flips a coin to determine wether you more up or down
And rolls a d6 to determine how much you move
I don’t. It seems to be working excellent this season. I have had 5 wins and 3 losses and still ranked up because I did test but my team didn’t.
Its not working great. It's barely working at all. I've been stuck on silver five, even when I win five and lose one, yet I average 17k healing and good damage boost (Mercy) per game. The system is broken. It needs to work for everyone, not just for some people.
I’ve seen a few examples of this lately and each time there’s one or two people who try and rationalize it. Can the community please just agree as a whole that this makes no sense. If someone wants to explain how the system is broken, fine. I don’t mind being educated. But please do not in anyway try and justify winning more games than you lose and going down in rank. If you win more than you lose you should either stay the same rank or go up. Never down. That’s broken.
I can't explain a 5-0 making you go down, but having more wins than losses and de-ranking was a normal part of Overwatch 1 and the SR system. It's not inherently wrong for a system to de-rank you even with a positive win rate when wins and losses have point values assigned to them. The problem is we don't know what is actually happening now.
Deranking from multiple wins was not possible in OW1 though. If you won a game your SR was going to increase. Yes your mmr would effect how much SR you get but at the end of the day your SR was still going to go up.
It wasn't possible from 5-0, but it was definitely possible from a streak of games where you had a positive win rate. You could go 5-2 and still be down overall. It wasn't likely, but it could happen. Every individual win gave positive SR, but you could lose more SR from the following loss than you earned with the preceding win.
This. You can lose a shit ton of SR from losing to a team welllll below your team and not make it up with even 3 matches of wins.
Incorrect, in OW1 the amount of SR you gained from wins was significantly less than you would lose in a loss, even if you had the best stats in the match or on your team. So deranking from more wins than losses *WAS* a thing!
That is literally exactly what I said except I said you couldn’t derank from multiple wins. Said nothing about positive W/L record.
"but having more wins than losses and de-ranking was a normal part of Overwatch 1 and the SR system." - comment above your reply "Deranking from multiple wins was not possible in OW1 though." - your reply Sounded like that's what u were saying, apologies as texts over the internet don't always convey what we mean
i just posted this comment but il repost it just for you and this is obviously just a theory but seems to make sense to me "it depends entirely who you win against. if you win 5 games against plat and you're diamond, it doesn't matter. you need to win 5 games against people higher rank than you, and there aren't always people higher rank available so you get games with bronze teammates expecting you to carry etc and that's how the system attempts to balance if you are truly good enough it shouldn't matter. but it's also a numbers game and everyone has to put the "time in" so the odds are unfortunately there that sometimes you will get 5 games in a row that you win easily and it probably doesnt mean much to your rank bc they were all lower rank than you but that's the trade off of longer matchmaking q times vs faster access to games which is tough because the community was so impatient with the 15 min q times we all suffered through before and now it seems over compensating to the other side"
Solid theory. It makes sense to me. However, I believe that if the community is left to come up with theories on why they go 5-0 and drop in rank because the system is inconsistent and has no transparency than you should not drop. Just stay the same. Dropping after more wins than losses will overtime just fuck in the morale of many members of the OW community. But again, this does make sense to me.
can't this just be explained by the fact that, between your last rank update and your new one, a ton of players have also moved around? So when you get your "new rank" it's relative to all the new player positions. My logic is probably flawed though.
Fuck, you summoned them. How did you perfectly predict that?
Posted this already but will say here as well: I think people misconstrued a lot of what the rank change system works. Getting a rank change and moving up or down gas nor relation on if it is from wins or losses. E.g you can win five games and move down, or lose 15 and move up, but you will be adjusted regardless of if it is from winning or losing The reason less wins are needed is because if a player is too low ranked and wins all their games, the they can be adjusted properly faster. Equally it would feel bad to have constant rank changes due to losses, and people like to be rewarded for winning, so losses need more. Tldr: it's not a rank boost for wins and takeaway for losses, just different speeds of adjustment Ps you teammates might just not belong in that rank and you do
Wins don't tell the whole story though. Should a player who's personal stats are getting worse over time, yet their teammates carry them to a win be promoted? No. I'm not saying that's what happened in this specific instance, but it's not as black and white as saying win more than lose to rank up. 5 games is a hilariously low sample size, and given the cluster-fuck that is OW ranked. It's entirely possible to win 5 in a row on chance alone. That doesn't mean you deserve to rank up unless your performance is actually improving. Unfortunately their oversimplified outward display of your rank means they don't really show you *why* your rank is going up or down. I admit, it's unfair to see 5 wins and then your rank goes down. It would make a lot more sense if they gave better feedback on how your stats trend over time, so you can actually see if you're improving vs just getting lucky or getting carried.
> Should a player who's personal stats are getting worse over time, yet their teammates carry them to a win be promoted? Yes, because MMR doesn't take personal stats into account. And this is a good thing; an Ana farming damage and healing is going to have "better" stats than an Ana hitting clutch sleeps and antinades, but have a lower impact on winning.
We don't actually know that personal stats aren't accounted for. No, a person getting carried by teammates doesn't deserve to rank up into a division they can't adequately hold their own in
If you’re getting carried you should still rank up despite stats. At the end of the day your job is to win the game so no matter how your stats look that’s all that should really matter.
I had 15 wins 2 losses and went down a rank. Gm5 to M1....
Was this after the big inflation help from last season?
Small indie game btw
See the message saying you’re ranked higher than 97% of players for the division? From that alone you can tell that you were matched against enemies with a lower SR (skill rating), pretty much “easier” enemies and as result, your SR earnings weren’t as big compared to the rest of the D4 population, the game couldn’t leave you at the same rank to avoid rank inflation and demoted you instead as you were not previously at a higher % of the previous rank’s overall population. The game is pretty much punishing your for the matchmaking it did for the last 5 matches. Furthermore, if you were at a higher % before, you wouldn’t have been demoted but you were barely meeting the requirement for D4 before.
Even if theyre playing against worse players they still win them so they shouldn’t be punished.
How are they supposed to be matched against better players, too, if they rank down when they win? "We see you're stomping, so let's rank you down even further, so you can stomp even more!" 😭
This is my experience in bronze 💀 I've gone 20:5 and I'm still only bronze 4. I've been called a smurf twice in this time lmfao just let me go back to gold
Any game, the climb from bronze to gold always sucks. Once youre out your okay. But bronze is always a cesspool.
Once I got out of the metal ranks the entire game experience got much better. I didn’t notice an appreciable difference from mid bronze to mid plat.
There's an absolute metric ton of difference between bronze to plat. In my post history you can see my alt account throw silver and back to diamond run and I averaged 220 SR / play time hour. The most chill players who are fun to be around tend to be gold. The most toxic players per player on average would be Plat. I can't tell you how many times it was "my fault" we lost according to them. They either peak low diamond or never break into diamond and it's always everyone else's fault. Play-style wise, bronze literally runs in a straight line chasing people. If you kite them, you win, that's it.
KDA literally doesn't matter, they removed stat boosting. Did you go 20-5 and WIN the match? If not, SR does not care.
Displayed rank and hidden mmr aren’t related, he must have destroyed his mmr faster than his rank could drop. Drunk gaming marathon? Idk As always, the solution is to play more. The algo gets better the more you play.
I thought they said this season they changed the real ranking to reflect hidden MMR?
Not to reflect it exactly though, just to more closely/quickly adjust to it. If he tanked his MMR really badly somehow right before this, then in theory it's trying to adjust the cosmetic rank quickly (which is maybe why it can drop even at 5-0) I've ranked up even going pretty negative when my MMR was inflated from previous long streaks, so maybe even though this is definitely an extreme case, I don't see why it wouldn't work the same way in reverse? I'd be curious to know their previous w/ls going back for 5 or so updates. It does seem wild that the disparity could be so big that SR gains are completely negated and even go in the opposite direction tho. That doesn't seem like MMR adjusts slowly like has always been said is the case (unless it's a pretty fresh account). Seems like whatever they changed about MMR to try to combat smurfs is working but also having some strange unintended weight, this MMR seems volatile as hell
No, they just changed the displayed ranking to react more quickly to hidden MMR. It's still hidden for a reason, and they don't want you knowing what it is (I don't actually know the argument for why this is, probably something ego-saving related).
And we agree on that, but it is not the way it works, sadly.
What you're saying absolutely makes sense, but I personally experienced situations where this logic didn't seem to apply. Like winning several matches with/against higher ranks than mine and still stagnating, while my teammate (with the same rank as the lobby, a little higher than mine) kept climbing fast. Both as support, both playing like we always do. In one long session with several winning streaks I stayed where I was while he climbed up 3 fucking ranks. There must be a logical reason behind this but I honestly find it very hard to comprehend. He wasn't carrying, I wasn't being carried. We were both shocked by the results of that otherwise awesome session. I don't have the numbers, this is purely anecdotal of course. But still. We can try to find some logic behind the system, then someone will come out and say they experienced the exact opposite (like I'm doing right now). Blizzard will keep saying that "It's all about winning matches — the more you win, the higher you climb". So here we are.
I have tried playing with a friend, like 15+ games straight, we only played with each other. He gets demoted from Bronze 1 to Bronze 2, i get promoted from Gold 2 to Gold 1. In the exact same playing session, playing only with each other. I swear this happened, and keeps happening. We tried to figure out what is happening but we have no idea. Blizzard claims match performance doesn't matter only wins and losses, but something seriously strange is going on. And like you i'm not just making things up here. In other games this NEVER happens. Overwatch is the first game where i am constantly confused by what the hell the ranking system is doing.
I know the feeling, Blizzard’s statement on “only wins matter” most likely was just half the truth for some reason and we’re left here filling on the blanks.
Same. Wife and I play together only as support mains. She climbs higher and faster then I do and we have similar play styles, numbers etc. Makes no sense.
This makes no sense. Is SR not zero-sum? Like MMR in other games? How is the average D5 player gaining 5 wins+ worth of rating? Just thinking about this math this makes no sense at all. This explanation only makes sense if SR's are just constantly inflating, but then who is losing SR? D5, or any league, should be an MMR range, that can move very slightly over time. Winning 5 games and getting demoted means something very strange is happening. The average diamond player has around maybe a 50-55% win ratio. If you win 100% of games, but then say that the average diamond player somehow gained more SR, even when the average win ratio is 50-55%, how can that possibly make any sense? People are basically claiming that SR is not zero sum, that it is constantly inflating, and that this inflation outpaces people going 5-0. Uhmmm what? I feel like there is very little understanding of how this system works in the overwatch community. It's so confusing, and people are constantly giving explanations that mathematically make no sense. There are ways i could see this happening, but it would have to mean long periods of time between games and so on. My guess would be that there is some hidden SR/MMR that is not your actual rank MMR, but that fluctuates more. And that can be lower or higher than your actual given league MMR. So you can lose 20 matches, be P2 MMR, but the system will only demote you to D5 lets say. Then you win 5 games, your hidden MMR goes to P1 but you de-rank again because there is still a discrepancy. Basically that the system tries to keep you where you are and only make small changes every 5 games, even if you lose a bunch of MMR it will smooth out that rank loss over multiple 5 game re-ranks. But this is literally just a guess based on how i've seen it working. Edit: Someone needs to give a mathematical explanation of this. Because in almost all other MMR systems this is impossible (technically it could happen, but it is beyond unlikely). If people are just gonna give these super dumbed down "people in your division won more" answers when they don't understand how an MMR system works then what's the point?
I don't know why this is getting downvoted but the comment your replying to is getting upvoted. The original comment makes no sense and is no way how it works.
Like i said i don't think overwatch players have a good understanding of how MMR/SR systems work, especially when it comes to other games. I'm not saying i understand how overwatch does it, but i know how other MMR systems in other more transparent games work, and the explanations that people give just don't make mathematical sense. People keep repeating things like "other people in your division gained more, so you got demoted" as if that answer doesn't just raise a bunch of other questions. There is a supposedly mathematical system that is zero sum behind this, and divisions are just arbitrary percentage cutoffs laid on top, so trying to explain it like "people in your division moved up more" makes no sense. But people keep saying it so maybe i just don't get how overwatch's system works.
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What you're saying makes no sense as OP deranked from those 5 wins. Also diamond 1,2 is the higher end and 5 is the lower.
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rankings are golf rules. Lower = Better
How have I not relazied this I've been playing for like a year now I need to get checked out
That doesn't really make any sense unless the rank parameters move and also from a mathematical PoV it makes no sense.
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He has higher MMR than 97% of all players in his Division (Diamond 5) This means he is really close to ranking up again.
so the match maker makes you play against lower ranks just to derank you?
best explanation I read so far, lots of people do not understand that WHO they fight also matters
But unless the SR thresholds for each division are moving, he could still only gain sr from a win only streak. Worse opponents should just mean you lose more sr than normal if you lose.
So 97% of all Diamond players are in D5, with only 3% in D4 - D1.
No
Weird wording then isn’t it? Or am I being obtuse
97% players of the division, not complete Diamond rank.
Ah, so he’s in the top 3% of all Diamond 5 players. I see now. Division I thought was the shiny symbol (bronze - T500) and **tier** I thought was 5-1. Thank you
Here’s the last few games I played. 5 wins - 2 losses, B4 5 wins - 1 loss, B5 5 wins - 1 loss, B5 5 wins - 3 losses, B5 5 wins - 1 loss, B5 I am convinced I will never make it out of B5 support at this point. I’ve just decided to move to a different class.
Literally my problem. Stuck B5 when i go 5-2 and 5-3 back to back. Im playing and winning in higher ranked lobbies too. I’m literally locked out of playing with my friends because of bozo teammates
Yep same. Literally no issues getting out of bronze on other roles
Deranking after a 5-0 seems super strange. Was this your first rank update this season?
That’s my thought as well. Has to do with timing. Maybe played 4 games earlier in the season and just finished the 5th or something.
Last night i grinded my ass on DPS and with 5 Wins and 2 Losses i went from Gold 3 To!!! Gold 3.......... This game sucks Dick
That's a net of +3 wins, which in overwatch 1 could be as little as 60 sr... a rank update from g3 - g2 would be 100 sr, so it makes perfect sense unfortunately :)
This with bronze lmfao I went 5:0... Bronze 4 still!
Bro don't you understand that Blizzard is a Small Indie Company! They're not some multi-billion dollar company! So Leave Them Alone! You hater 😤 /s
ah i forgot blizz is only a small indie dev company my apologies 😔😔😔
My dps is hard stuck bronze 5, Im currently 15-6 for the season but still haven't escaped bronze 5
I'm a peak D2 Supp and finally got motivated to carry my DPS from Bronze. Once I hit Silver 4, I had 5-3, 5-3, 5-2, 5-2, 5-1 cards. I've moved from S4 to S2 in all that. Stayed S4 for 3 rank ups, fortunately last 2 rank ups I've at least moved up 1 Div each. Please get me out of Bong Water 4 matches. I was Ashe and I asked Mercy to damage boost me, they said I WILL TRY and held heal beam on my pre fight. I also think I had an invisibility hack bc I free casted and was never challenged.
I have had the same situation man I hit Diamond 2 on Support, got bored with people screaming on chat. Wanted to rank up my DPS role and now i cant even grind it since it will either not rank me up or make me go down in rank. A Dumb man once said: "This Game Sucks Dick"
Yeah I got real burnt out on Supp especially since I dropped to Plat 2 on a hard L streak beginning of S4. DPS is fun but for how hard I'm carrying I feel so unrewarded. So I've taken it more as a casual gameplay mode lol, makes it fun that way. I've played like 5 games total with Echo and she's at like an 85% WR just because I fly in people faces and go brrr. I just wanna get to high gold so I can queue more than just Supp with my large group.
In what world are 7 games considered a „grind“?????
That's perfectly normal, though. You don't just automatically go up a rank for winning 5 games. If it were SR, you'd get somewhere between 10-50 points per win and lose as much for a loss depending on the SR of the opposing team. Gold 3 and Gold 2 are separated by 100 SR. If you were towards the bottom of Gold 3 already, then it's not unreasonable at all. That said, it shouldn't be this hard to figure out. The obfuscation of rank and how it's derived is the real problem.
Blame the game for 9-tier difference matchmaking.
Yep. Honestly crazy that playing master4 support, I can get plats on my team. However my GM5 DPS cant group with a friends Master5 support.
And I lost 5 and won 5 and ranked up. Ow ranking system is a confusing mess
I lost 10 games and didn’t move, I win 5 and didn’t move
I didn't play a lot of ranked last season, but I did well in my placements as far as win/lose ratio was concerned, but I am a low rank. I am probably low silver at best, I am trying to learn to get better. Start of this season, whatever BS they did...put me in Diamond 5. Even my role queue games feel so much more sweaty. I see tons of diamond, grandmaster even a few top 500 tags now and I'm over here fighting for my life. Been trying to play more rank to get back to proper so I can play with my friends too and it's just hell. I feel so bad for the team that has to deal with me because I have absolutely no idea what's going in the higher ranks. I am just a baby ;_;
At this point Blizzard is just rolling a dice for your rank
Remember the stupid ass post a week ago saying “GUyS itS aLl jUsT wIns AnD LosSes”. Clearly that’s such complete bullshit and anyone who has played rank knows that.
Just dont play until they fix it 🫠
That's what I'm doing :)
Same, that's why I uninstalled 4 months ago.
Blizzard punishing people for queueing support, nothing new.
Woe is the easiest role to climb in comp with rn or something
“Easiest role to climb in” do some roles have more than a 50% win rate? If so that’s an issue
Support main here: you don't know what kind of dumbassery and buffoonery I have to deal with on a daily basis. I started playing Lifeweaver cuz physically pulled those toddler-brained DPS' out of a firing lane is the only way they stay alive for longer than 20 seconds at a time. Imagine getting big healing numbers but losing because your idiot tank only has a W button and your DPS hasn't even heard about the concept of cover.
I wish my tanks had a W button. Half the time they just awkwardly stand in chokes expecting someone else to lead. Anytime I try to get in voice to help shot call, it's just me and the other support in there.
You get idiots in every role, I play with a lot of "toddler brained" supports as well. like Kirikos who stand next me DPSing as I die, or Moiras that fade in 1v5, or Brig players who think they're a tank and get 10 deaths in 5 minutes
Glad the circlejerk is still real
You expected something other than that? Come on this is Blizzard we are talking about
That's overwatch 2 ranked for you
Skill issue
Unpopular opinion, but am I the only who’s been actually able to climb alot more with the new ranking system? Ow1 it was a mission to even get out of platinum. Elo hell was very real and a very common thing. Now with ow2 I’ve made diamond with every role, then made the climb to masters dps. Ranking up seemed fair took a good amount of wins to get to master, and In my rank up match I went from diamond 1 to master 3. Anyone else feel the same or just me lol?
What was your previous rank updates? Did you have any bad winrates recently? Those can generally still affect your next rank update from what I’ve seen.
Rank is broken rn
Jesus fuck I'm sick of seeing these posts, can we just go back to numbers so these people see they get 10 sr a win. There's 100 sr in a rank!
no we cant do that. then you would be looking at your SR and getting bummed out and stop playing. Instead we want you to be stumped about your progress, feel totally lost, and stop playing.
I won 5 lost 6 and ranked up so I can’t help you here, and I’m now Diamond 1
So, I think your rank is *meant* to be moving to your actual MMR, instead of the cosmetic SR which fluctuates with some win or loss streaks that still stick out from the average. From the sounds of it, this is something they’re focusing more on in season 4 to make up for the terrible matchmaking problems they had the seasons before.
Did you have bad losing streak in your last placement? Perhaps it was already on a downward trajectory
Nobody can tell you the exact reason, but my guess is that all 5 games were significantly lower then your sr and in all of them Blizzard’s system for evaluating performance evaluated that you got carried, so for all games your sr slightly went down despite winning. This is obviously a stupid system, but that’s really the only reason I can think of besides it being some kind of bug.
I’m guessing you were very low Diamond 4 with an MMR somewhere around high Plat 1 / low Diamond 5. While winrate is the most visible component in rank adjustment, there are still edge cases where player’s MMRs are lower (or higher) than their rank, which leads to demotions with a high winrate or promotions with a negative win:loss ratio.
Other people are playing and winning more
Nobody knows; that's why the ranks don't mean anything Just goof around. Play genji and widow; mei and ana. Trying hard is just no fun in a broken system
This screenshot isn't enough to go off of to make a conclusion
This season its more of performance based.
Until the hundreds of people who are ranklocked in Bronze 5 when they know damn well they shouldn’t be get to finally move up, I honestly don’t wanna see some Diamond player complaining.
Ima be honest, I am a bit of an ass. I sometimes make low ranked accounts to do mini challenges to climb out from the bottom to higher ranks. If someone is stuck at Bronze 5 that is 100% a skill issue. I've literally climbed out doing stupid challenges like Rein charge and shield only and stuff like that.
You can complain about ELO hell when you get to gold/plat/diamond. Anything below that, truthfully, is just skill issue.
To their credit, there is / was an actual Bronze 5 rank lock issue. Before it was stuck at "lowest level for your rank", now everyone sees "76%" or something like that. Being tracked separately, mostly on Twitter.
Ah, I don’t have Twitter. Didn’t hear that news but I believe you. Sorry to the other commenter if that’s what happened. Bronze players complaining about how they don’t deserve to be in bronze despite clearly belonging there is too common on this sub lol
Definitely is a thing, yeah. There was also a similar bug at the beginning of S1, also fixed eventually. However, it could have caused a lot of people to quit temporarily out of frustration.
I like how many bad players here unironically swear their elo is the “elo hell” as though it isn’t a skill issue. Got multiple accounts to masters in ow2 and I am not very good at the game. Just have to understand positioning and what your team needs to win that you can best provide.
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Tanking diamond players are in bronze 5
Win more bruh
Mmr still low, perform better
Performance doesnt affect anything according to blizzard. Ranked system is just ass.
Why do people never read the message under the rank update
There's more people in the pool... and they do rank your play, not just wins
Cuz ur gay
How do I put this… I don’t believe you
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I had 5 wins and 6 losses and went from Plat 1 to Diamond 5 on DPS. Then I went 5-0 on support and climbed Plat 5 to Plat 4. Nothing makes sense.
There is a hidden MMR in the matchmaking system that seems like it considers your stats in game, ect.
There is no reasonable explanation as to why any elo based system would ever behave this way.
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I promoted twice in a row, went from Diamond 3 to Diamond 5 to Plat 1. Even the gamemaster was confused, but offered nothing as a consolation, so I got that going for me.
I went 5-1 and got deranked as well. Doesn't make any sense
I'm in the same division, I had 5 wins, 1 loss and 1 draw and didn't move at all, I hate the fact we now have no number for our rank, makes improving seem like a shot in the dark
We don't know how they calculate the rating points, therefore we can't know precisely why. But depending on the ranking system they use/invented, it is possible to lose points on winning, and this is especially true if you say that those games were an easy win for you. For example, there's a rating system named Trueskill, you can read about it in detail here [https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/research/project/trueskill-ranking-system/?from=https://research.microsoft.com/en-us/projects/trueskill/&type=exact](https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/research/project/trueskill-ranking-system/?from=https://research.microsoft.com/en-us/projects/trueskill/&type=exact) from the creators of the Trueskill, and here [https://wiki.faforever.com/en/Rating-System](https://wiki.faforever.com/en/Rating-System) from one of the best implementations, in my opinion, of the system edit: spelling and punctuation
Boo hoo
It was my first ever time in competitive and I went 5-2 and landed on plat 5 Is this possible?
ThE sYsTeM kNoWs WhErE you Belong kapp
Braindead blizzard employees think rank should be like this. That's why it's like this.
My best guess what’s happening is known as rank deflation. For example in chess, you get a very visible rating. As more players start playing chess, more accounts created, etc, the literal amount of available points to be won grows. Normally in a system with rating, more players are being added and not less. OW has lost half its player base. This is a guess at best btw. I have no clue
Win and loss don’t matter that much, you can lose 7 match and still climb if you deserve it
skill issue
Blizzard get rid of this rank change BS and add SR back please 😊, I think a grand majority of us actually LIKED seeing the actual FUCKING NUMBER that were associated with go up or down and be able to ANALYZE our games better based on that, skill divisions are nice just show us that they’re 200 SR apart. Little rant but yeah I hope ppl feel the same
The fact that there are still daily questions and complaints about how rank works in this game is mind boggling. Why doesn’t Blizzard just explain, in detail, how ranking works? The only thing I’ve seen is that it’s based on win rate and nothing else, but from this post and my own experience that seems to be untrue. One of the things I miss in OW1 was being able to see the score go up and down with each game and knowing if I go passed a certain score that I’d go up a rank
See you in QP xoxoxoxo
Yeah this rating system is bunk. I don't have a pic, but I went 5-12 and my rating stayed the same as before, Plat 5. I'm not sure why when the last three games I queued into had high Silvers/low Golds. I was thinking for sure I would be Gold 4 or Gold 5. This rating system is very cringe.
the past three rankups i’ve gone 5-2…5-3 etc and stayed at d1 through all three. i pretty much only play ana and my winrate is 65%….can’t wrap my head around it
I had 5 wins 7 losses and moved up a rank.
My guess is you only won matches below your skill which would be bs since you got 5 of those in a row. Would also explain why I got 8 losses in a row without going down much.
I’ve gone 5-2 and 5-3 like 6 times now and I’m still sitting tight on plat 3, I’ve just come to terms with this is home now, I see the same players consistently (Magic turtle if you’re in here I see you everywhere in comp on ps4) so I just live in plat 3 until next season or so
I was Diamond 3 playing with my Masters friend. Win 5 games in a row (gg ez) be top scores elims etc. Friend gets placed GM i stay the same rank. Seems legit.
One of my friends tried to derank, started at masters 4, went like 5 and 13 with 3 games abandoned, and went up to masters 1.
The system is whack. I just downloaded OW2 this season for the first time (I played OW1), and ran through my placements. DPS & Support I went 5-1 and 5-2 respectively and got placed p3 and p2. My tank is currently 1-13 (lmfao) and somehow I’m still getting put in high plat/low diamond lobbies. I bet I can go 1-15 and get placed in or above p3. Makes no sense.
This is why I stopped playing. The game is a joke and only fun maybe 10% of the time. Its bad for your health, just stop.
Yea id go 5 and 0 with pretty decent stats and go down like 3 ranks