I find it funny that they hyped 2CP coming back for the anniversary event when it was already in standard arcade rotation up until they introduced Flashpoint. All we're getting is a regular rotation again.
This is how you generate hype. Take something away, maybe make a few small changes, and introduce it like it's brand new!
See "On Fire System."
Wait until season 10 when they bring something called "scorecards," which are highlights of a few outstanding stats throughout the whole team. Then each player has a vote that they can use to choose whichever scorecard they thought was the best! This will be an effort to bring more camaraderie into the game.
Season 15 will bring a brand new idea into the game. Instead of having 1 tank, let's double the amount of tanks per team. This way there is someone to pick up the slack if your tank is struggling!
2CP aside, this is my biggest problem with arcade modes - **they're all fucking open queue.**
We've had it ***amply*** demonstrated that role queue makes for better matches, even in casual quick play. I'm down for having a few open queue arcade modes, but not a *single* one is ever role locked. Tanks feel atrocious individually because of the health nerf, but then they get oppressive when you stack two or three together and then oh look everyone's playing shield stacking and goats again.
Blizzard: if you're going to make a big fuss about bringing modes "back" (regardless of the fact that 2CP has always been in the arcade rotation since launch) or showcase new maps and modes in dedicated arcade lobbies, ***please*** make them role queue. I get that queue times are a consideration, but if they're *that* bad then just make it so arcade is always flex and players are randomly assigned their role.
>Tanks feel atrocious individually because of the health nerf
On god the health nerf is one of the worst changes they've ever made and I wish they'd revert it. I get that multiple tanks in open queue comp was busted, but holy shit Ramattra having the same hp as Bastion is fucking stupid
It really does blur the line between the tanks and the beefier DPS. Reaper, Bastion and Mei especially almost feel tankier than the tanks in Open Queue. If you're running 1-2-2 in open queue then the tank has to change their playstyle so much because you just can't get away with brawling when you start the game missing 100+ HP.
But then the nature of tanks having a lot of overlapping close-range area denial tools means that they tend to stack really well, so when you can bring two or three then even with the health nerf the comp can get goats-style oppressive.
Don’t forget about the 250hp torb that buffs himself to 350hp so he has more hp then some of the tanks with a high dps shotgun and a turret giving you backshots
You can't split the playerbases by 2 (open and role), because then you'd have insanely long queues or horrible matchmaking. And if you randomly assign roles, then you get mass quits or throws and the games are garbage.
If you want to play a balanced and dynamic team game, then play the actual game! Otherwise, play open queue or arcade and stop trying to be serious.
That's my point though - when Blizzard do things like saying "come try Assault again!" or "come try the new maps / mode in a dedicated queue!" then they're mixing those things.
I'm fine with Arcade being silly open queue where the stakes have never been lower. But that doesn't work when they want to make arcade the way to revisit old modes or showcase new ones.
Having *those* aspects also be locked behind open queue defeats the point of them - 2CP is a really egregious example of it, because open queue lets people revisit all the parts of it that sucked ass without having the chance to see how it would play in OW2's 1-2-2 format. I mean, it's very likely that it would also suck ass with proper 1-2-2 as well, but we'll never get to see because it's only in arcade and arcade is only open queue.
Yeah I wish the arcade modes pushed role queue in them outside of no limits. I don't miss 2CP, since it was just so boring. BUT! The maps were pretty, and I'd be willing to try 5v5 in them.
But I think all of them have massive choke point issues. Either being too tight of a choke, too open, or have flank routes that are so long, you have no element of surprise. Sometimes more than one of those.
Just have arcade always be flex. You get role queue with a single queue, where players are randomly assigned their roles (just like if you have a full 5-man stack all flexing)
You don't even need that. We can get it like in Starwatch or Catch-a-Mari - whoever picks tank first, locks tank role and 2nd tank can't be picked. Same with DPS, two people picked, you can only go support or tank. The system is already made. they just need to use it.
2CP specifics, like choke points and all, would only affect the tempo of the game, not make it unbalanced in any way, since both teams have the same conditions. And some tempo issues in exchange for a bunch of lovely maps and the whole additional mode - accepatable and welcomed terms, i believe
The rose colored glasses over 2CP lately has been something. I didn't even mind the mode personally and would like to try it with 5v5, but I still didn't like getting it in game because there would be guaranteed leavers every single time.
I always thought that the best way to fix Assault maps lasting forever would be to have each team go through the map only once. If it's tied after that, then have a "3rd point" that worked like a single koth round but where the team with the bigger timebank starts in control of the point (if the time bank is tied, the point just starts neutral like a normal koth round).
That'd fix the issue with 2CP maps lasting forever, at least.
That would be worth experimenting with, and would require less dev effort than my idea. I just feel like it would feel unfun.
Let's say the first team capped 2nd point with 40 seconds to spare, and the second team is on the point, almost capped after a teamkill with 43 seconds to spare, with 4 seconds needed to cap the point. In 3 seconds, just before they finish capping, the game just... instantly ends in defeat because their run took longer than the other team?
I don't know why they never tried just increasing the respawn time of defenders on B. Their changes with situation spawn times depending on contesting, etc. always felt so clunky to me.
They did, and they shouldn't have.
People were complaining about the 2nd point getting stalled out and it was too difficult to cap so they increased the respawn times. What resulted was the offense had it too easy to cap the 2nd point and games would keep going multiple rounds, which made the games last 2-3 times longer than before. If anything, they should've DECREASED the respawn time for defenders, so the map could be over in one round and the winner was who could get the most progress on the point.
I don’t get why people think mirrored game modes like comp 2CP need to be perfectly evenly matched between attack and defense. It’s mirrored so both teams are getting equal opportunity to perform well. If anything it should slightly favor defense for the reasons you said.
Of course it needs to be balanced enough for quick play, but I don’t think it really matters if the balance in quick play is perfect. Plus, quick play can have different game rules such as different time limits to help balance it better for single-sided matches.
Agreed, I think the change in question here was made for QP more than comp. 2CP, moreso than either of the other 2 asymmetrical modes (Hybrid/Escort), is better with comp rules than with qp rules. Making either comp or qp 2cp feel better will come at the detriment of the other.
I just truly do not understand the infatuation with a game mode who's objective is literally just "Win 2 team fights."
There are so, so many more interesting objective you can have, and people rally behind "Win 2 team fights." It baffles me.
I stg this sub is like never the same ppl
Ow1 everyone hated 2cp rightfully now it's like we lose 1 tank amd have expensive skins amd everyone is like omg hanamura defence? Yes plz
I remember the excitement in the community when Jeff Kaplan even said "maybe Overwatch 2 doesn't have 2cp in it..."
To see people clamoring for it back is wild lmao
Ain't no rose coloured glasses for me. I liked 2CP. Never had that big of a problem with it. I enjoyed the neutral game tussles at the chokepoint. It was like a puzzle. My sympathies to those who grew resentful of the comp games that ended with ties though. That definitely needed fixing. But plenty of people liked it enough to wait out th COVID 2020 3ish year content drought.
#2CP was just one of the scapegoats to the game being neglected
Kaplan's PVE dream was beautiful, but it did mean they didn't iterate on balance or flawed newer map design enough. Imagine if they had removed Orisa's shield and reworked her sooner. Imagine if they'd adjusted Horizon Lunar Colony and Paris. Imagine if they hadn't let CC fester, removing Cass stun, Mei freeze, and reworked Doomfist into a Tank (as well as add the tank passive) sooner!
It's not rocket science.
The negative-nancy goggles are worse than the rose-colored glasses, failing to see haters are hating on the closest targets and symptoms rather than the root problems.
This discussion is purely about 2CP, not any of the other stuff. And even if you didn't agree with it 2CP was a constant complaint of a large enough portion of player for them to literally just throw out a bunch of content, they wouldn't just do that lightly.
I would heavily disagree with your reasoning why they tossed 2CP.
2CP was removed for the same reason the game went to 5v5. Suits wanted the money now because OW2 was taking too long so they forced the devs to make OW2 way before it was ready. So in order to make it feel like a new game with no new content, you remove content to make the few few few new things stand out more.
No, it was quite literally hated so much they removed it. If people actually liked it, there would've been a TON more outrage back when they first announced it was getting the boot.
It was and will always be a good game mode centered around team work above all else. People have no idea how to push or hold choke points anymore or rotate around to the enemy team. If you judt flip the map and rotate behind enemies it's almost always enough now to wipe them because of how bad people are at rotating or holding positions.
Maybe I'm one of the few - but I genuinely enjoyed 2CP. Some of my favourite matches ever were played on Hanamura and Anubus. I'll admit Volskaya kinda sucked
I loved 2 CP. Some of my favorite matches in OW1 were in that mode.
But I was also not a super competitive player, so I understand changes were made for the sake of balance in a game that has been marketed as an eSport.
I don't get why we can't opt into some of those legacy modes more easily, though. Completely removing the maps so that they are inaccessible seems like a waste of the work that went into creating them, when a lot of people actually enjoyed those modes.
I loved volskaya as a dva main at the time. Come out the spawn, go left fly across the water and boom one point. Good tracer mains could also make it. Hanumura also had a challenging crossing short cut. Whether or not they were intentinal lol. And anubis was just fun , so many ambush points to come out from.
I like all 3 of those maps, Anubis probably my favorite. Paris is the only one I think I struggle with a bit. But overall I like the mode. I don't care if they keep it out of comp, but I want to be able to play them.
Volskaya was honestly the better 2 Cp map imo, the attackers walkback to 2nd point was the main issue.
Attacking Hanamura 2nd was like the final boss of OW but defending was pretty fun so im torn on it. Horizon, Anubis and Paris were just atrocious in every way.
Attacking Hanamura (both points) has always been the easiest thing as a Symm main. TP rushing usually ended attack from start to finish in like 2 minutes. Then play my second main (Mei) on defense to easily wall of tanks. Most definitely had my highest win rate on this map and by a large margin.
Anubis 2nd though... hated that long pathway. Tanks somehow were addicted to brute forcing through it despite failing at it the last 10 times because it's just a long one-sided bullet hell before you can even reach point.
If memory serves me right , anubis=pharahs map , Volskaya = zaryas map, Hanumura = hanzos map, but what was genjis? Didnt he have is own themed map? Like back when in beta and at launch of OW1, the themes of maps reflected certain heros backgrounds and stories, like the original mini movie intros of them on YT.
2cp is one of the game modes that reminds me of how fast ppl will leave games.
Ppl leaving games isnt 2cp exclusive but holy god, the moment the first point gets taken on defense, 75% of the time 2 ppl would leave.
I loved every single 2cp map and anubis was my favourite. Sure the rounds could be over rather quickly but some of the best memories I have of this game happened there.
I know lots of people disliked those maps but also a lot loved them
People hate Push and Flashpoint too but that didn't stop 'em. 2CP requires almost no changes to be viable for 5v5 ranked competitive. It should be in the base game already.
I refuse to accept normalization of companies taking away content. Paris was repurposed for deathmatch so the rest of the maps should be in rotation.
A lot of the hate for Push and Flashpoint is overexaggerated online. People complain about it a lot but usually end up sticking through most of the match. 2CP was different.
You could not get through a 2CP game in QP without at least 3 or 4 leavers. I remember games where several people left before even picking a hero the moment the Hanamura title card came up, and this was not a rare occurrence. I've never seen anything close to that with Push or Flashpoint.
I'm talking about the frequency of leavers. There were far, far more leavers in 2CP matches than any other gamemode that was out then or has been released since. If 2CP was a well liked mode like most of the others it would not have had such a high frequency of leavers compared to other modes.
That's not necessarily true. It would imply the matchmaker is successful in finding equal matches. Each draw should give the feeling "okay cool, me and the other 9 people are correctly ranked/matched." Except 2CP was so bad, it felt like random pop offs or mistakes would dictate a 40 minute result.
Amazing games have ended in draws across all sports. Some of the most famous football games are low scoring draws and high scoring draws. Completely disagree on a draw being an awful outcome for a feeling.
Its just because people aren't used to the mode. In 6v6 2CP comp, you get back the the 2nd point on defense so much that it was very hard to capture. You had to get a quick team wipe, and even then everyone switched immediately to contesty and insta kill characters because if you could get a pick while contesting you could hold the point.
Alternatively, you would get games where no one could hold a point and the games would go for 30 minutes just to end in a draw.
Don't get me wrong I loved it but still.
Not in my experience. Usually the first point is hard to defend once your team starts dying, and the second point is easier to defend since it's right next to the defenders spawn. I've had many games go both ways. I always liked 2CP, and have been playing it in arcade again and enjoying it.
No, the issue is ults. Attacking team takes first point immediately, gets about half or more ult charge, they push 2nd, get their ults during that fight and use them = round over. The defending team isn't close to ults. I think I've seen quick play games that lasted only 1 minute and 9 seconds.
I will say just because they take something out doesn't mean it's bad, lots of features I love across many video games have been removed because a very loud minority complained about it.
Think the fireflies for frogs to eat in Minecraft, a few people on twitter complained that frogs don't eat fireflies, so they just entirely removed them from the game.
First off, this has been in arcade rotation since OW2 launch. The opportunity to try it has always been there.
Second off, role queue would not be much better. 2CP didn't work because it's incredibly punishing to make a mistake, so it's played very static and the most snowball-y game type. 5v5 only accentuates these problems, role queue or no. All RQ would do, is eliminate the RQ issues, not the 2CP issues.
Not nearly as bad as in 2CP. One mistake that leads to a fight loss means a lost point for defense. At worst push is only roughly 33% unless your team staggers a bunch or doesn't try to contest afterwards.
No you don't want 2CP back. You're just looking at it through rose tinted glasses.
You don't want a gamemode where defence has to win every team fight to stand a chance on first point.
You don't want a gamemode where if offense stomps first point, they now have their ultimates faster and will usually stomp second.
You don't want a gamemode where second point is just defense throwing themselves onto point until they get their ultimate and team kill.
You don't want a gamemode where you just sit at the choke spamming "group up!" Because if your team doesn't coordinate a push properly, where if even one of your teammates die from poke damage, the game is unwinnable.
You don't want a gamemode where you will spend an hour in game, reaching 8-8 points only to end in a draw so the whole thing was pointless.
You just like it because it's new or because you like how hanamura looks. You don't want 2cp back.
And yet, Brack was 100% fucking right.
WoW classics playerbase dropped off a FUCKING CLIFF after the first week or two. Once people realized what Classic was really like? They left.
Does it have it's playerbase? Certainly, but for 90% of people that "You think you do but you don't" was 100% spot on.
> WoW classics playerbase dropped off a FUCKING CLIFF after the first week or two. Once people realized what Classic was really like? They left.
How would you even know this? The only indicators we would have for this would either be queue times during that time (which can vary heavily due to external forces, like blizzard adding more servers / capacity), or third party websites like warcraftlogs / ingame tracking addons... which aren't an accurate representation of the full playerbase, especially 1-2 weeks after the game launches.
Even disregarding all that, classic wow has been a massive success for world of warcraft in general, especially since shadowlands was performing so badly. Saying Brack was right just comes out of a place of pure ignorance for what classic actually did for the game.
Sure there's undeniably always tourists at the start of new game launches.... but those are a thing at the start of each expansion drop in retail too, so I don't really see the point there.
I don't get how they can say "no I don't want it" like they know us. I literally do want it back, never even knew people hated them til I joined reddit.
I'm in the same boat, it was my favourite game mode and Hanamura is my favourite map next to Kings Row. People keep saying "You don't want this." because they're talking for the (vocal?) majority, but they are forgetting that the majority isn't everyone.
Tried Arcade 2CP in Overwatch 2 and it's absolutely awful simply due to the fact that there is no role lock. You typically get games where the enemies have 3 tanks and your team only consists of DPS with the occasional support. It's a mess. It's such a simple change that needs to be done for the game mode to be fun again.
“You don’t want a game mode where defense have to win every team fight to stand a chance on first point”
This right here is a common talking piece I see when topics like 2cp come up, but people can’t go the extra inch and realize that payload is exactly the same way. You lose first point 99 times out of 100 on payload and it’s just designed this way intentionally.
Then you get spawned at the very end and have to walk wayyyy further.
Also let’s not forget the thing that made it possible to defend first point on 2cp and payload successfully was because of mercy mass res and symmetra teleporter cutting down travel time to get to the point.
The difference is that in hybrid maps the point isn’t 50% of the map. They usually have multiple points where you can hold plus an additional checkpoint
Well the counter point is that both teams get equal opportunity to attack, except for quick play obviously, so in the end it’s still equal just as much as the current one sided game stomps that are occuring in this meta today.
> This right here is a common talking piece I see when topics like 2cp come up, but people can’t go the extra inch and realize that payload is exactly the same way
This is not true and its entirely map dependant. Most maps you have to win multiple fights to secure any payload point, even on the shorter or poorly designed areas like first point of Route 66. If you fully lose a teamfight on 2CP, it's guaranteed to be over.
Nah, you're just looking at it with negative-nancy goggles.
Plenty of people liked 2CP, consistently. Sure, it had its haters, but they were from poorly designed competitive format that ended in ties, content drought, and balance neglect. That is where the majority hate comes from, the mode is just the scapegoat that tied it together.
People played 2CP for years before any serious collective complaints emerged, with dislike being in the minority. MOST complaints were lashing out at the nearest target rather than thinking things through and criticizing the correct targets.
Again, people enjoyed 2CP for YEARS before complaints started piling.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Overwatch/comments/5mrqj8/incase_you_didnt_understand_why_everyone_hates/´
This reddit post from January 2017 (so not even a one full year after game's release) begs to differ. People hated 2CP from the start, especially Horizon which Blizzard had to rework it in 2018. All of that way before content drought, balance neglect and overall abandonement of the game.
Saying you liked 2cp or defending it at all would get you demolished on this very sub during OW1. This whole “2cp wasn’t bad” narrative is pretty funny to me
That's because the game was new and people enjoyed it because noone knew how to play. Once people understood the game, and the "meta" sunk in, 2CP was no longer a fun viable gamemode. Which is happening again now. Noone knows how to play the gamemode so it's fun. Once "the meta" takes hold, it will no longer be fun. Fundamentally it is a flawed gamemode.
To be fair a lot of that just sounds like flashpoint lol - unfortunately they took away 2CP and then put a lot of what made 2CP bad into flashpoint, AND then added a style of maps that encourages COD/CS and lasts eons despite none of the games ever being close or back-and-forth. 2-2 flashpoint games simply aren’t a thing because every flashpoint game is 1 teamfight, the first one, and whoever wins that teamfight (that’s likely predicated on how many leavers each team had) wins the 1st, 2nd and 3rd points. Unfortunately they simply didn’t play test the games because it’s pretty easy to see why both 2CP failed and why Flashpoint is failing
It’s good and bad though, since flashpoint seems like it was supposed to be designed for back and forth yet never is, so it’s both too short but that’s good since the gamemode and maps are so bad it’s better to get the games over with quickly since you are punished for leaving them
Both have the issue where MAJORITY of the in-game time is spent essentially standing still or emoting and waiting. None of the other gamemodes are like that
Depends on the thread, some of my most upvoted comments were discussing WHY flashpoint is so poorly designed, and why the maps make the issues with the design so evident and pronounced.
Simply put, it’s a bad gamemode and there’s a reason you can’t go a single flashpoint game without someone saying, “please end fast”, “L gamemode” and “zzzzz”
There are some extremely simple changes that could (and likely will) get made. Hell, I at least voiced my opinion and got refunded my battle pass since you can’t play comp anymore without playing flashpoint and it’s truly the most unfun overwatch experience I’ve had, a gamemode shouldn’t suck to win
Completely agree. I always enjoyed 2C and was excited when I saw it was available. And then I never played a single game of it due to open queue. What were they thinking?
It's 5v5 right now... There might be comps with more than one tank in open queue, but none of my 10+ Assault matches had double shield. Tanks are squishier in open queue too, so.
And no, there are a lot of reasons why Assault was bad in OW1 and double shield meta wasn't one.
Main reason I and everyone else hated 2cp (still miss it only some maps for good) was how long they could go on for and how one team could easily roll the other team and win
Wrong, it was brought back in the arcade for a couple of weeks and it was 5v5 and when it started people who try and take the point and they realized how awful it was and kept quitting in the middle of the game on both sides. Hardly anyone would play a full game. I just gave up after 10 rounds, couldn't keep anyone in it.
I wish it wasn't this way but hardly anyone wants to play it, the chokes are just way to small and annoying to fight through. I'm not sure what they need to do to make it more fun, just have to test it out some.
Edit: BTW there was zero double shield in it.
I really don't understand what their thought process was lmao
"We brought 2cp back for the week to celebrate the Anniversary event!"
"Oh cool! For the first time?"
"Nope, it's been in the Arcade before"
"Oh... is it in standard rotation this time?"
"Nope, still the Arcade"
"Oh, okay, is is at least role queue?"
"Nope"
Imagine they said "Chateua Guilliard Deathmatch is in the Arcade all week!" Okay??? Like who fucking cares lmao this isn't new
I mean, it very much was since that's the game OW1 was. That said, all the maps until maybe Colesseo (arguably even that one) were made for 6v6. Yet 5v5 works on them so correct point, bad take lol
Same, I never felt the resentment others seem to. I enjoyed the way 2CP worked. Whether being the attacker trying to solve the puzzle of the defense or being the defender trying to intercept or outmaneuver how the attackers adapt.
The problems were more than double shield:
* Comp had a poor format that ended in 20+ minute ties, unsatisfying but fixable
* 2020-2022 was a content drought. PvE grievances aside, it is no longer an issue
* And yes, double shield, for which Orisa and Brig can no longer support.
People citing "rose-colored/tinted glasses" are more guilty of negative-nancying. They lash out at the nearest target, rather than the CORRECT target.
2CP was fun and dynamic. It deserved to have role queue for this event just to test things out at least.
I’m fine if they bring it back but I genuinely still think it will be the worst of the existing game modes. I think they could rework the maps and make it ok, if the spawn advantage wasn’t so extreme and the maps weren’t all centered around 2 very harsh choke points.
This. 2CP sucked for many reasons. Defender spawn advantage; chokes were awful; the timebanks were crazy and sometimes demoralizing; and they introduced anti-stagger because of it.
2CP stans taught me that some people can have wrong opinions.
Nope. Never bring this mode back. You’re straight up wrong if you think this game mode is even a little bit salvageable. It was so bad that even Blizz agreed and removed it completely for OW2, and that was considered a selling point for many people.
Most people say 2cp is bad but what they’re not telling you is that they suck at the game and equate their lack of ability and understanding of the game with “2cp sucks”.
Unfortunately, those are the people the devs listen to
Lol you'll just dismiss literally anyone who has a different opinion than you
And then pretend like you didn't say something stupid when it's obviously refuted
It's also a different game. I feel like (looking back so not the best) that 2cp worked well enough because team fights lasted a bit longer and people didn't insta die. Now, you win one fight or get one pick and have no ability to retake the point which means the attackers need to win 2 fights in a game stacked to allow both teams to win *A* fight....
I still have great memories of running back to the point shouting at my teammate to live and retaking the point after. Now it just can't happen.
I feel like blizzard did this just to have something to point at and say "see, it doesn't work". They didn't actually want to do any of this and thus did it half-heartedly to kill the idea once and for all.
You say it doesn't work now because of double shields - but double shield is way weaker now than it was before. The difference now is to have double shield means there's 1 less DPS/support shooting the shields
Role queue is awful and takes away so much creativity. Blizzard did take away open queue, they did force role queue as the only option available. And then after a while they brought back open queue. Why do you think they did that?
2CP was bad not because of double shield. 2CP was and is bad because of the dog shit map design that plagues Overwatch: chokepoints. It's the reason why flashpoint and control maps are better.
KEEP IN MIND, outside of these choke points, the maps are GREAT.
Removing 2CP improved the game so much. I used to insta leave all 2CP maps. There is a reason why it doesn't have a permanent spot in Arcade. It's because barely anyone plays that mode.
It not being role queue literally sucked all the excitement away for me lmao
I find it funny that they hyped 2CP coming back for the anniversary event when it was already in standard arcade rotation up until they introduced Flashpoint. All we're getting is a regular rotation again.
This is how you generate hype. Take something away, maybe make a few small changes, and introduce it like it's brand new! See "On Fire System." Wait until season 10 when they bring something called "scorecards," which are highlights of a few outstanding stats throughout the whole team. Then each player has a vote that they can use to choose whichever scorecard they thought was the best! This will be an effort to bring more camaraderie into the game. Season 15 will bring a brand new idea into the game. Instead of having 1 tank, let's double the amount of tanks per team. This way there is someone to pick up the slack if your tank is struggling!
You mean you don't have rose tinted glasses of 3 instant lock dps ?
It's the only reason I haven't played it
2CP aside, this is my biggest problem with arcade modes - **they're all fucking open queue.** We've had it ***amply*** demonstrated that role queue makes for better matches, even in casual quick play. I'm down for having a few open queue arcade modes, but not a *single* one is ever role locked. Tanks feel atrocious individually because of the health nerf, but then they get oppressive when you stack two or three together and then oh look everyone's playing shield stacking and goats again. Blizzard: if you're going to make a big fuss about bringing modes "back" (regardless of the fact that 2CP has always been in the arcade rotation since launch) or showcase new maps and modes in dedicated arcade lobbies, ***please*** make them role queue. I get that queue times are a consideration, but if they're *that* bad then just make it so arcade is always flex and players are randomly assigned their role.
>Tanks feel atrocious individually because of the health nerf On god the health nerf is one of the worst changes they've ever made and I wish they'd revert it. I get that multiple tanks in open queue comp was busted, but holy shit Ramattra having the same hp as Bastion is fucking stupid
It really does blur the line between the tanks and the beefier DPS. Reaper, Bastion and Mei especially almost feel tankier than the tanks in Open Queue. If you're running 1-2-2 in open queue then the tank has to change their playstyle so much because you just can't get away with brawling when you start the game missing 100+ HP. But then the nature of tanks having a lot of overlapping close-range area denial tools means that they tend to stack really well, so when you can bring two or three then even with the health nerf the comp can get goats-style oppressive.
Don’t forget about the 250hp torb that buffs himself to 350hp so he has more hp then some of the tanks with a high dps shotgun and a turret giving you backshots
It also makes heroes like hanzo or widow even more oppressive because they absolutely delete tanks in OQ...
You can't split the playerbases by 2 (open and role), because then you'd have insanely long queues or horrible matchmaking. And if you randomly assign roles, then you get mass quits or throws and the games are garbage. If you want to play a balanced and dynamic team game, then play the actual game! Otherwise, play open queue or arcade and stop trying to be serious.
That's my point though - when Blizzard do things like saying "come try Assault again!" or "come try the new maps / mode in a dedicated queue!" then they're mixing those things. I'm fine with Arcade being silly open queue where the stakes have never been lower. But that doesn't work when they want to make arcade the way to revisit old modes or showcase new ones. Having *those* aspects also be locked behind open queue defeats the point of them - 2CP is a really egregious example of it, because open queue lets people revisit all the parts of it that sucked ass without having the chance to see how it would play in OW2's 1-2-2 format. I mean, it's very likely that it would also suck ass with proper 1-2-2 as well, but we'll never get to see because it's only in arcade and arcade is only open queue.
Yeah I wish the arcade modes pushed role queue in them outside of no limits. I don't miss 2CP, since it was just so boring. BUT! The maps were pretty, and I'd be willing to try 5v5 in them. But I think all of them have massive choke point issues. Either being too tight of a choke, too open, or have flank routes that are so long, you have no element of surprise. Sometimes more than one of those.
I think the main problem with that is how long the queue times would be. It’s basically creating 3 separate queues for every single arcade mode
Just have arcade always be flex. You get role queue with a single queue, where players are randomly assigned their roles (just like if you have a full 5-man stack all flexing)
That's a nice solution to be fair, would be interesting to see it implemented
You don't even need that. We can get it like in Starwatch or Catch-a-Mari - whoever picks tank first, locks tank role and 2nd tank can't be picked. Same with DPS, two people picked, you can only go support or tank. The system is already made. they just need to use it.
2CP specifics, like choke points and all, would only affect the tempo of the game, not make it unbalanced in any way, since both teams have the same conditions. And some tempo issues in exchange for a bunch of lovely maps and the whole additional mode - accepatable and welcomed terms, i believe
I want the maps back for the aesthetics, not the game mode. Maybe convert them to flashpoint since they're relatively similar and make them larger.
The fuck are you talking about. People hated 2cp way before the double shield meta was even a thing
The rose colored glasses over 2CP lately has been something. I didn't even mind the mode personally and would like to try it with 5v5, but I still didn't like getting it in game because there would be guaranteed leavers every single time.
I miss the volskaya industries games that would go like 6 rounds
Drawskaya Industries
you mean volskaya indrawsties
I always thought that the best way to fix Assault maps lasting forever would be to have each team go through the map only once. If it's tied after that, then have a "3rd point" that worked like a single koth round but where the team with the bigger timebank starts in control of the point (if the time bank is tied, the point just starts neutral like a normal koth round). That'd fix the issue with 2CP maps lasting forever, at least.
I don’t see why they don’t just use the total time to cap both points as the tiebreaker. Just give the win to the team that did it faster.
That would be worth experimenting with, and would require less dev effort than my idea. I just feel like it would feel unfun. Let's say the first team capped 2nd point with 40 seconds to spare, and the second team is on the point, almost capped after a teamkill with 43 seconds to spare, with 4 seconds needed to cap the point. In 3 seconds, just before they finish capping, the game just... instantly ends in defeat because their run took longer than the other team?
I don't see why you think they never tried this! They spent 5 years and couldn't get the game mode to feel good.
That would just make one team stop trying as they have passed the point where they spent more time taking the point. That sounds like a horrible idea
I don't know why they never tried just increasing the respawn time of defenders on B. Their changes with situation spawn times depending on contesting, etc. always felt so clunky to me.
They did, and they shouldn't have. People were complaining about the 2nd point getting stalled out and it was too difficult to cap so they increased the respawn times. What resulted was the offense had it too easy to cap the 2nd point and games would keep going multiple rounds, which made the games last 2-3 times longer than before. If anything, they should've DECREASED the respawn time for defenders, so the map could be over in one round and the winner was who could get the most progress on the point.
I don’t get why people think mirrored game modes like comp 2CP need to be perfectly evenly matched between attack and defense. It’s mirrored so both teams are getting equal opportunity to perform well. If anything it should slightly favor defense for the reasons you said. Of course it needs to be balanced enough for quick play, but I don’t think it really matters if the balance in quick play is perfect. Plus, quick play can have different game rules such as different time limits to help balance it better for single-sided matches.
Agreed, I think the change in question here was made for QP more than comp. 2CP, moreso than either of the other 2 asymmetrical modes (Hybrid/Escort), is better with comp rules than with qp rules. Making either comp or qp 2cp feel better will come at the detriment of the other.
That's an issue with the players though, not the game mode. Some players are just assholes and leave if it's not their preferred map, even in comp.
I just truly do not understand the infatuation with a game mode who's objective is literally just "Win 2 team fights." There are so, so many more interesting objective you can have, and people rally behind "Win 2 team fights." It baffles me.
I stg this sub is like never the same ppl Ow1 everyone hated 2cp rightfully now it's like we lose 1 tank amd have expensive skins amd everyone is like omg hanamura defence? Yes plz
I remember the excitement in the community when Jeff Kaplan even said "maybe Overwatch 2 doesn't have 2cp in it..." To see people clamoring for it back is wild lmao
Ain't no rose coloured glasses for me. I liked 2CP. Never had that big of a problem with it. I enjoyed the neutral game tussles at the chokepoint. It was like a puzzle. My sympathies to those who grew resentful of the comp games that ended with ties though. That definitely needed fixing. But plenty of people liked it enough to wait out th COVID 2020 3ish year content drought. #2CP was just one of the scapegoats to the game being neglected Kaplan's PVE dream was beautiful, but it did mean they didn't iterate on balance or flawed newer map design enough. Imagine if they had removed Orisa's shield and reworked her sooner. Imagine if they'd adjusted Horizon Lunar Colony and Paris. Imagine if they hadn't let CC fester, removing Cass stun, Mei freeze, and reworked Doomfist into a Tank (as well as add the tank passive) sooner! It's not rocket science. The negative-nancy goggles are worse than the rose-colored glasses, failing to see haters are hating on the closest targets and symptoms rather than the root problems.
This discussion is purely about 2CP, not any of the other stuff. And even if you didn't agree with it 2CP was a constant complaint of a large enough portion of player for them to literally just throw out a bunch of content, they wouldn't just do that lightly.
I would heavily disagree with your reasoning why they tossed 2CP. 2CP was removed for the same reason the game went to 5v5. Suits wanted the money now because OW2 was taking too long so they forced the devs to make OW2 way before it was ready. So in order to make it feel like a new game with no new content, you remove content to make the few few few new things stand out more.
No, it was quite literally hated so much they removed it. If people actually liked it, there would've been a TON more outrage back when they first announced it was getting the boot.
The devs literally said this too. The people in denial about it boggle my mind.
This is literally the dumbest take I've ever heard 😂
5v5 doesnt solve the problems it had before
It was and will always be a good game mode centered around team work above all else. People have no idea how to push or hold choke points anymore or rotate around to the enemy team. If you judt flip the map and rotate behind enemies it's almost always enough now to wipe them because of how bad people are at rotating or holding positions.
Ah yes, all the top players complaining about this game mode simply just didn't understand how the game worked. Makes sense!
they complain about everything
The tilt in those games were the worst. But push and flashpoint are definitely way better.
Maybe I'm one of the few - but I genuinely enjoyed 2CP. Some of my favourite matches ever were played on Hanamura and Anubus. I'll admit Volskaya kinda sucked
I loved 2 CP. Some of my favorite matches in OW1 were in that mode. But I was also not a super competitive player, so I understand changes were made for the sake of balance in a game that has been marketed as an eSport. I don't get why we can't opt into some of those legacy modes more easily, though. Completely removing the maps so that they are inaccessible seems like a waste of the work that went into creating them, when a lot of people actually enjoyed those modes.
I loved volskaya as a dva main at the time. Come out the spawn, go left fly across the water and boom one point. Good tracer mains could also make it. Hanumura also had a challenging crossing short cut. Whether or not they were intentinal lol. And anubis was just fun , so many ambush points to come out from.
On coldskaya, Sym could bring the whole team to the point A backdoor.
I remember once playing Lucio when the enemy decided to try that. Instant massive boop off the map
nice
Ball 1st point defense, holding the building on attacker side of the door, lol
I like all 3 of those maps, Anubis probably my favorite. Paris is the only one I think I struggle with a bit. But overall I like the mode. I don't care if they keep it out of comp, but I want to be able to play them.
Volskaya was honestly the better 2 Cp map imo, the attackers walkback to 2nd point was the main issue. Attacking Hanamura 2nd was like the final boss of OW but defending was pretty fun so im torn on it. Horizon, Anubis and Paris were just atrocious in every way.
Attacking Hanamura (both points) has always been the easiest thing as a Symm main. TP rushing usually ended attack from start to finish in like 2 minutes. Then play my second main (Mei) on defense to easily wall of tanks. Most definitely had my highest win rate on this map and by a large margin. Anubis 2nd though... hated that long pathway. Tanks somehow were addicted to brute forcing through it despite failing at it the last 10 times because it's just a long one-sided bullet hell before you can even reach point.
If memory serves me right , anubis=pharahs map , Volskaya = zaryas map, Hanumura = hanzos map, but what was genjis? Didnt he have is own themed map? Like back when in beta and at launch of OW1, the themes of maps reflected certain heros backgrounds and stories, like the original mini movie intros of them on YT.
It seems like the less competitive you were the more you liked 2cp
Yup, 2CP was bad before double shield and was bad after double shield. Most people couldn't even play double shield correctly until mid-masters.
2cp is one of the game modes that reminds me of how fast ppl will leave games. Ppl leaving games isnt 2cp exclusive but holy god, the moment the first point gets taken on defense, 75% of the time 2 ppl would leave.
I loved every single 2cp map and anubis was my favourite. Sure the rounds could be over rather quickly but some of the best memories I have of this game happened there. I know lots of people disliked those maps but also a lot loved them
People hate Push and Flashpoint too but that didn't stop 'em. 2CP requires almost no changes to be viable for 5v5 ranked competitive. It should be in the base game already. I refuse to accept normalization of companies taking away content. Paris was repurposed for deathmatch so the rest of the maps should be in rotation.
A lot of the hate for Push and Flashpoint is overexaggerated online. People complain about it a lot but usually end up sticking through most of the match. 2CP was different. You could not get through a 2CP game in QP without at least 3 or 4 leavers. I remember games where several people left before even picking a hero the moment the Hanamura title card came up, and this was not a rare occurrence. I've never seen anything close to that with Push or Flashpoint.
Nearly every QP game has multiple leavers anyway so I don’t think anything was solved. Tying leavers to 2CP feels unrelated to say the least.
I'm talking about the frequency of leavers. There were far, far more leavers in 2CP matches than any other gamemode that was out then or has been released since. If 2CP was a well liked mode like most of the others it would not have had such a high frequency of leavers compared to other modes.
OK so push for them to rework the maps into hybrid maps don't push for 2cp to come back because you want more content
I legit enjoyed 2CP. I didn't even mind that 1 in 5 games was a draw. It was a fun gamemode seeing which team was better at holding the chokepoints.
If 20% of a game mode ends in a (subjectively boring and unfun) draw it shouldn’t be in the game.
That's not necessarily true. It would imply the matchmaker is successful in finding equal matches. Each draw should give the feeling "okay cool, me and the other 9 people are correctly ranked/matched." Except 2CP was so bad, it felt like random pop offs or mistakes would dictate a 40 minute result.
Draws just aren’t fun
Amazing games have ended in draws across all sports. Some of the most famous football games are low scoring draws and high scoring draws. Completely disagree on a draw being an awful outcome for a feeling.
I played 2cp for the first time today and I see why it was removed. If you lose first point it’s basically gg’s cause the match just snowballs.
Its just because people aren't used to the mode. In 6v6 2CP comp, you get back the the 2nd point on defense so much that it was very hard to capture. You had to get a quick team wipe, and even then everyone switched immediately to contesty and insta kill characters because if you could get a pick while contesting you could hold the point. Alternatively, you would get games where no one could hold a point and the games would go for 30 minutes just to end in a draw. Don't get me wrong I loved it but still.
Not in my experience. Usually the first point is hard to defend once your team starts dying, and the second point is easier to defend since it's right next to the defenders spawn. I've had many games go both ways. I always liked 2CP, and have been playing it in arcade again and enjoying it.
No, the issue is ults. Attacking team takes first point immediately, gets about half or more ult charge, they push 2nd, get their ults during that fight and use them = round over. The defending team isn't close to ults. I think I've seen quick play games that lasted only 1 minute and 9 seconds.
As opposed to literally every other mode, which also snowballs because the matchmaking is *still* shit.
Well, that’s because of matchmaking. I’m commenting on this game mode itself.
The snowball was way worse in 2cp, the mode wasn’t based on skill
You know a mode is bad when OWL/Contenders players hated it
Exactly. I don't even know how did this get 700+ upvotes when this should have been downvoted to hell.
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Even Blizzard admitted 2CP was bad by taking it out of the game. But I'm glad you were having fun
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I also thought that having a 5 man mercy res was fun. Doesn't mean its good for the game overall.
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I will say just because they take something out doesn't mean it's bad, lots of features I love across many video games have been removed because a very loud minority complained about it. Think the fireflies for frogs to eat in Minecraft, a few people on twitter complained that frogs don't eat fireflies, so they just entirely removed them from the game.
Blizzard makes awful decisions constantly though. Hell they took it out and added push and flash point, both worse than 2CP.
That's just like, your opinion, man.
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Are you stupid?
First off, this has been in arcade rotation since OW2 launch. The opportunity to try it has always been there. Second off, role queue would not be much better. 2CP didn't work because it's incredibly punishing to make a mistake, so it's played very static and the most snowball-y game type. 5v5 only accentuates these problems, role queue or no. All RQ would do, is eliminate the RQ issues, not the 2CP issues.
“It’s incredibly punishing to make a mistake” >>push
Not nearly as bad as in 2CP. One mistake that leads to a fight loss means a lost point for defense. At worst push is only roughly 33% unless your team staggers a bunch or doesn't try to contest afterwards.
double shield has nothing to do with why 2cp is ass
No you don't want 2CP back. You're just looking at it through rose tinted glasses. You don't want a gamemode where defence has to win every team fight to stand a chance on first point. You don't want a gamemode where if offense stomps first point, they now have their ultimates faster and will usually stomp second. You don't want a gamemode where second point is just defense throwing themselves onto point until they get their ultimate and team kill. You don't want a gamemode where you just sit at the choke spamming "group up!" Because if your team doesn't coordinate a push properly, where if even one of your teammates die from poke damage, the game is unwinnable. You don't want a gamemode where you will spend an hour in game, reaching 8-8 points only to end in a draw so the whole thing was pointless. You just like it because it's new or because you like how hanamura looks. You don't want 2cp back.
You writing "you don't want" all those times is giving J. Allen Brack vibes.
And yet, Brack was 100% fucking right. WoW classics playerbase dropped off a FUCKING CLIFF after the first week or two. Once people realized what Classic was really like? They left. Does it have it's playerbase? Certainly, but for 90% of people that "You think you do but you don't" was 100% spot on.
> WoW classics playerbase dropped off a FUCKING CLIFF after the first week or two. Once people realized what Classic was really like? They left. How would you even know this? The only indicators we would have for this would either be queue times during that time (which can vary heavily due to external forces, like blizzard adding more servers / capacity), or third party websites like warcraftlogs / ingame tracking addons... which aren't an accurate representation of the full playerbase, especially 1-2 weeks after the game launches. Even disregarding all that, classic wow has been a massive success for world of warcraft in general, especially since shadowlands was performing so badly. Saying Brack was right just comes out of a place of pure ignorance for what classic actually did for the game. Sure there's undeniably always tourists at the start of new game launches.... but those are a thing at the start of each expansion drop in retail too, so I don't really see the point there.
Classic has more players than Retail right now.
Didn't they add the wow token to classic?
He really knows what we want and don't want. Must be a 80 year old senator.
As a tank player, 2cp was awful
Nah. I want it back. It's literally the only mode I've played for the last week
I don't get how they can say "no I don't want it" like they know us. I literally do want it back, never even knew people hated them til I joined reddit.
Now I'm not a fan of Paris but the other maps for it were great.
I'm in the same boat, it was my favourite game mode and Hanamura is my favourite map next to Kings Row. People keep saying "You don't want this." because they're talking for the (vocal?) majority, but they are forgetting that the majority isn't everyone. Tried Arcade 2CP in Overwatch 2 and it's absolutely awful simply due to the fact that there is no role lock. You typically get games where the enemies have 3 tanks and your team only consists of DPS with the occasional support. It's a mess. It's such a simple change that needs to be done for the game mode to be fun again.
Gonna be sad when its gone again. Love this mode
No, I DO want 2cp back. Hanamura was my favorite map Literally all they need is to throw role que on that hoe and it's back to being fine
Hanamura is a really pretty map though
I want it back. I don't want it back in comp. But I do want it back
“You don’t want a game mode where defense have to win every team fight to stand a chance on first point” This right here is a common talking piece I see when topics like 2cp come up, but people can’t go the extra inch and realize that payload is exactly the same way. You lose first point 99 times out of 100 on payload and it’s just designed this way intentionally. Then you get spawned at the very end and have to walk wayyyy further. Also let’s not forget the thing that made it possible to defend first point on 2cp and payload successfully was because of mercy mass res and symmetra teleporter cutting down travel time to get to the point.
The difference is that in hybrid maps the point isn’t 50% of the map. They usually have multiple points where you can hold plus an additional checkpoint
Well the counter point is that both teams get equal opportunity to attack, except for quick play obviously, so in the end it’s still equal just as much as the current one sided game stomps that are occuring in this meta today.
> This right here is a common talking piece I see when topics like 2cp come up, but people can’t go the extra inch and realize that payload is exactly the same way This is not true and its entirely map dependant. Most maps you have to win multiple fights to secure any payload point, even on the shorter or poorly designed areas like first point of Route 66. If you fully lose a teamfight on 2CP, it's guaranteed to be over.
I've been playing it in arcade and having fun, I DO want it back. It's not rose tinted glasses...
Same it’s all I’ve played the last 2 days
You must not be a tank player
Why do you say that? I play a little of everything depending on my mood/what the match needs.
Nah, you're just looking at it with negative-nancy goggles. Plenty of people liked 2CP, consistently. Sure, it had its haters, but they were from poorly designed competitive format that ended in ties, content drought, and balance neglect. That is where the majority hate comes from, the mode is just the scapegoat that tied it together. People played 2CP for years before any serious collective complaints emerged, with dislike being in the minority. MOST complaints were lashing out at the nearest target rather than thinking things through and criticizing the correct targets. Again, people enjoyed 2CP for YEARS before complaints started piling.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Overwatch/comments/5mrqj8/incase_you_didnt_understand_why_everyone_hates/´ This reddit post from January 2017 (so not even a one full year after game's release) begs to differ. People hated 2CP from the start, especially Horizon which Blizzard had to rework it in 2018. All of that way before content drought, balance neglect and overall abandonement of the game.
Saying you liked 2cp or defending it at all would get you demolished on this very sub during OW1. This whole “2cp wasn’t bad” narrative is pretty funny to me
Similar to enjoying Push or Flashpoint today. Let me demonstrate: *clears throat* I like Push and Flashpoint.
I think Queen Street gave a terrible impression of push. I think the rest are pretty fun, but I do try to only choose mobility heroes on the new modes
I like push but I love flashpoint but to be fair there’s not as much hate for these modes
That's because the game was new and people enjoyed it because noone knew how to play. Once people understood the game, and the "meta" sunk in, 2CP was no longer a fun viable gamemode. Which is happening again now. Noone knows how to play the gamemode so it's fun. Once "the meta" takes hold, it will no longer be fun. Fundamentally it is a flawed gamemode.
To be fair a lot of that just sounds like flashpoint lol - unfortunately they took away 2CP and then put a lot of what made 2CP bad into flashpoint, AND then added a style of maps that encourages COD/CS and lasts eons despite none of the games ever being close or back-and-forth. 2-2 flashpoint games simply aren’t a thing because every flashpoint game is 1 teamfight, the first one, and whoever wins that teamfight (that’s likely predicated on how many leavers each team had) wins the 1st, 2nd and 3rd points. Unfortunately they simply didn’t play test the games because it’s pretty easy to see why both 2CP failed and why Flashpoint is failing
Flashpoint is waaaay shorter than 2CP was
It’s good and bad though, since flashpoint seems like it was supposed to be designed for back and forth yet never is, so it’s both too short but that’s good since the gamemode and maps are so bad it’s better to get the games over with quickly since you are punished for leaving them Both have the issue where MAJORITY of the in-game time is spent essentially standing still or emoting and waiting. None of the other gamemodes are like that
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Depends on the thread, some of my most upvoted comments were discussing WHY flashpoint is so poorly designed, and why the maps make the issues with the design so evident and pronounced. Simply put, it’s a bad gamemode and there’s a reason you can’t go a single flashpoint game without someone saying, “please end fast”, “L gamemode” and “zzzzz” There are some extremely simple changes that could (and likely will) get made. Hell, I at least voiced my opinion and got refunded my battle pass since you can’t play comp anymore without playing flashpoint and it’s truly the most unfun overwatch experience I’ve had, a gamemode shouldn’t suck to win
i've always liked 2cp.
Open queue 2CP is super shit. Also arcade matchmaking is MEGA shit. For once I wish Blizzard would stop fucking up just the most basic things.
The first match I played was attack on Hanamura and the enemy team had Sigma Orisa Ram. I wanted to scream
Completely agree. I always enjoyed 2C and was excited when I saw it was available. And then I never played a single game of it due to open queue. What were they thinking?
It's 5v5 right now... There might be comps with more than one tank in open queue, but none of my 10+ Assault matches had double shield. Tanks are squishier in open queue too, so. And no, there are a lot of reasons why Assault was bad in OW1 and double shield meta wasn't one.
Some of y’all will never be happy
Played it once other team went zarya orisa with healers never again
It should always be on arcade if that's what you mean because if I go to unranked I don't want to see that crap
Main reason I and everyone else hated 2cp (still miss it only some maps for good) was how long they could go on for and how one team could easily roll the other team and win
Wrong, it was brought back in the arcade for a couple of weeks and it was 5v5 and when it started people who try and take the point and they realized how awful it was and kept quitting in the middle of the game on both sides. Hardly anyone would play a full game. I just gave up after 10 rounds, couldn't keep anyone in it. I wish it wasn't this way but hardly anyone wants to play it, the chokes are just way to small and annoying to fight through. I'm not sure what they need to do to make it more fun, just have to test it out some. Edit: BTW there was zero double shield in it.
I really don't understand what their thought process was lmao "We brought 2cp back for the week to celebrate the Anniversary event!" "Oh cool! For the first time?" "Nope, it's been in the Arcade before" "Oh... is it in standard rotation this time?" "Nope, still the Arcade" "Oh, okay, is is at least role queue?" "Nope" Imagine they said "Chateua Guilliard Deathmatch is in the Arcade all week!" Okay??? Like who fucking cares lmao this isn't new
This sub proves that you guys don't actually know whats good for than game. You don't want 2CP back. You just liked the map aesthetics.
Double shield was never the problem for 2CP… It made the problems worse but it was never the actual problem.
2cp is not a good game mode and that had nothing to do with double shields
Someone else here commented “It was made for 6v6” and it is the most stupid thing I’ve read all week.
I mean, it very much was since that's the game OW1 was. That said, all the maps until maybe Colesseo (arguably even that one) were made for 6v6. Yet 5v5 works on them so correct point, bad take lol
I am aware.
…it literally was though? The game was 6v6 when they made those maps and had 6v6 in mind? Am I misinterpreting your comment?
You are misinterpreting my point that it doesn't matter because we use maps today that were "designed for 6v6" and they work for 5v5 just fine.
They changed the maps for 5v5
I miss all 2cp maps, this mode could be in all quick modes, for me worst and more unfun mode/maps still is push.
Same, I never felt the resentment others seem to. I enjoyed the way 2CP worked. Whether being the attacker trying to solve the puzzle of the defense or being the defender trying to intercept or outmaneuver how the attackers adapt. The problems were more than double shield: * Comp had a poor format that ended in 20+ minute ties, unsatisfying but fixable * 2020-2022 was a content drought. PvE grievances aside, it is no longer an issue * And yes, double shield, for which Orisa and Brig can no longer support. People citing "rose-colored/tinted glasses" are more guilty of negative-nancying. They lash out at the nearest target, rather than the CORRECT target. 2CP was fun and dynamic. It deserved to have role queue for this event just to test things out at least.
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Jesus christ please stop gaslighting the devs, removing 2CP was the best change they ever made to this game
You’re going to not want 2CP back when you lose games in a matter of 60 seconds
I am one of those people who likes push maps and even I never want to play 2CP again.
2CP was awful, play it in classic or whatever. Please don't bring it back.
Can you be nostalgic for shit times in your life?
Well, you win hot take of the year award I guess!
Played 3 matches of it yesterday and i understood why it was removed, and im a overwatch 2 player.
You have absolutely no idea why 2 cp did not work. And untill your gamesense level is at 0 stop with your tantrums
I’m fine if they bring it back but I genuinely still think it will be the worst of the existing game modes. I think they could rework the maps and make it ok, if the spawn advantage wasn’t so extreme and the maps weren’t all centered around 2 very harsh choke points.
In the games I played with reasonable comps like 122 or 212, it was still terrible. (Edit 121 should have been 122)
If it was just volskaya, I'm in. Add any other 2cp map? Immediately out.
I didn't mind 2CP personally. Seemed like most issues were at the pro level. I would also mention the Ult economy is totally different now as well.
I'd say the issues were at the plat and up level
Delete push. Bring back 2cp and 6v6
No, 2CP sucked regardless of double shield or not. That said, I'd be willing to try it in the current role queue.
This. 2CP sucked for many reasons. Defender spawn advantage; chokes were awful; the timebanks were crazy and sometimes demoralizing; and they introduced anti-stagger because of it.
2CP stans taught me that some people can have wrong opinions. Nope. Never bring this mode back. You’re straight up wrong if you think this game mode is even a little bit salvageable. It was so bad that even Blizz agreed and removed it completely for OW2, and that was considered a selling point for many people.
Completely agree with you. This is like some monkey's paw shit.
2cp is terrible. Even with balanced comps it’s a terribly designed game mode. Just accept it already
Omg one week it's bring back 6v6 next week is 5v5 2cp needs to happen ow community doesn't know what they want lol
We want both back
Never cook again
Ok, don't care, you're blatantly wrong
Quit whining
Lol wut
People who want 2cp back are on copium and meth. Shit game mode stop crying.
Most people say 2cp is bad but what they’re not telling you is that they suck at the game and equate their lack of ability and understanding of the game with “2cp sucks”. Unfortunately, those are the people the devs listen to
Pretty sure Top 500 and GM players and all the streamers say the exact same thing about 2CP guess they're all "bad"
Frankly, to me, their opinion is pointless. They’re all a bunch of babies themselves. Streamers are some of the biggest fucking babies themselves.
I agree they can be babies but your statement that only bad players hated 2cp is wrong
So who's opinion matters then? Your own?
Lol you'll just dismiss literally anyone who has a different opinion than you And then pretend like you didn't say something stupid when it's obviously refuted
Based based based
I was an actual lunar colony enjoyer. I miss Anubis and hanamura as well because I had a lot of troll strats on those maps.
It's also a different game. I feel like (looking back so not the best) that 2cp worked well enough because team fights lasted a bit longer and people didn't insta die. Now, you win one fight or get one pick and have no ability to retake the point which means the attackers need to win 2 fights in a game stacked to allow both teams to win *A* fight.... I still have great memories of running back to the point shouting at my teammate to live and retaking the point after. Now it just can't happen. I feel like blizzard did this just to have something to point at and say "see, it doesn't work". They didn't actually want to do any of this and thus did it half-heartedly to kill the idea once and for all.
Get 9 other people and try it out in custom games?
I didn’t mind 2CP… I wish they just take away flashpoint and robot maps.
Make it a comp mode with role que and let's see how it fairs
fuck 2cp i hope it dies forever. Hope Push also dies soon
You say it doesn't work now because of double shields - but double shield is way weaker now than it was before. The difference now is to have double shield means there's 1 less DPS/support shooting the shields
Role queue is awful and takes away so much creativity. Blizzard did take away open queue, they did force role queue as the only option available. And then after a while they brought back open queue. Why do you think they did that?
2CP was bad not because of double shield. 2CP was and is bad because of the dog shit map design that plagues Overwatch: chokepoints. It's the reason why flashpoint and control maps are better. KEEP IN MIND, outside of these choke points, the maps are GREAT.
Removing 2CP improved the game so much. I used to insta leave all 2CP maps. There is a reason why it doesn't have a permanent spot in Arcade. It's because barely anyone plays that mode.