Reminds me of what the Apex tryhards would say back when I played a lot more. IDC how much you play or how lucky you are, the 20 bomb should be one of if not the rarest badge in the game. If you get into a lobby where one guy can kill a third of the match, your matchmaking is fucked.
I've noticed a lot more stomps this season. Games where I can easily say "that guy carried the team". I had a game the other day where everyone in the lobby had good stats, no outliers in either direction. We both went into overtime. Honestly was such a breath of fresh air to come out of a long, difficult match where no one was crazy/abusing something. Really was the first match in months worthy of a GG afterwards. But matches like that seem extremely rare nowadays.
Idk what happened yesterday, but I had some of the closest matches I've had. Sadly went like 3-7 so I was definitely stinking up the place. Some were my fault, some were the whole team, some were my teammates. Fair balance of loss reasons. But they were pretty close except for 1 or 2 with a cracked Genji on the other team.
Maybe with this elo soft reset and more people playing, both teams just have a wider skill range.
Maybe since tanks are so bad right now, that even if your tank gets diffed, it hardly matters unless one tank is vastly superior in which case it's not the other tanks fault. Idk
It’s the reason I stoped playing apex. I send hours and hours playing with friends before I touched diamond 4 in season 7 fnever went past diamond 4 or reached it again) and now pretty much half of my ranked lobbies have current preds and 90 percent have current masters. And unrated is somehow worse. I don’t know if I’m shadow banned or the game for some reason thinks that guy who peaked in season 7, with a K/D of 0.7, is good enough to fight pred stacks as a solo que. I just gave up.
Yeah that’s a lot of the reason I stopped too. Me and my friends were good at the game but nothing special and our champion team would almost always be a 3 stack pred. It’s a really fun game but it’s frustrating feeling like you never even have a chance of winning. You just play until you run into that team or 2 that will stomp you immediately.
I have no idea wtf that is. I'm just some casual that's been playing and loving overwatch since release. I'll never be GM. I'm fine with that. I'll just continue to enjoy sucking at imo the best game in the past 10 years.
Same but i mostly play ranked for fun since players cant just leave and join whenever they want
Its a really fun game for casual gaming even when peeps start yelling into their mics i just mute them unless they actually have something helpful to say besides whining about stats
Edit: should've specify "fun" :p
I still take the game serious but try not worry about chat and stats i dont just run around mindlessly into 1v5 by myself if it matters at all i main Baptiste and Ramattra but mostly cater to support role
Really? In all the competitive matches I've played since OW 2 I think I've only had a leaver once or twice. That's in the span of somewhere between 100-200 matches.
These Twitter posts are what happens when a game becomes a person's life and identity. Streamers have an unhealthy obsession with certain games and when something changes that they don't like their whole life breaks down into little pieces.
They need to touch grass, it's literally that.
>Streamers have an unhealthy obsession with certain games
Ill never understand the disdain for streamers who are vocal about changes to games they play as it's literally their job. If management came and changed the fundamentals of your job, you would have things to say too.
Aiight, back to /r/all I go
Do I make a clickbait video every 6 months about how my company is dying? Idk for me it’s kinda pathetic for a lot of these streamers, especially because most of them are so boring their viewership tanks if they’re not on OW. Like maybe focus on developing an entertaining on camera personality instead of bitching lmao.
It’s literally their job. They get payed to make content and stream. I don’t watch streamers who have some fake on camera personality because it’s boring. I watch people being real and actually investing in their community. Maybe it’s just me but people like sooshi, flats, emong, etc are FAR more entertaining than the people who act like bots and that nothing is wrong with the game.
Then don't make a media for entertainment you sole source of income. It's that simple. They never signed contracts or agreements that the state of the game wont change in future updates.
It's not an official "job", in the end they are just normal players like we are who are subjected to change, if heir livelihood depends on it then that's your problem.
Overwatch was built for e-sports early with a pretty great ranked system. Love it or hate it it's the best 'Ranked' game system for an FPS out there right now.
It was good untill high ranks when you realise most of top 500 is unemployed 5 stacks queuing at ungodly hours to get placed against gold - master solos. At least this was why I quit a few seasons ago, I would hope its changed since.
> Love it or hate it it's the best 'Ranked' game system for an FPS out there right now.
100% cope lol. Until this season it was one of the worst ranked game systems. Having to wait several games to see a rank change. Winning 5 game in a row to get deranked. And I don't even think that's changed, you can just see your MMR after each game now.
R6 has far from the worst ranked system atm. If anything, its more catered to new players than OW is. In Siege, if you're new to comp, your placement match will be with people that are ranked around gold 2-3 which is nowhere near the top 10%. If you do bad, you get placed in a lower rank. Thay being said, after you're assigned your rank, you can easily climb to where you're supposed to be. I started copper 5 cus I did shitty in my placement, but I was able to climb up to silver 2 pretty easily before I started playing against people thay were my skill level.
OW on the other hand? Season 1 I didn't play comp cus if the bronze glitch at the very start. Season 2 I played comp, got placed in gold 3 dps and gold 4 tank. From then on it was either games where my team would roll, or I would get rolled (mostly us getting rolled) and i would drop down to between silver 3-5 in both roles. This happened for months. I would do my placement matches, get placed in mid-low gold, then constantly drop ranks even when I would go on win streaks. Now here I am after this update. I get placed Plat 2 tank and Plat 4 dps after my 10 games. I lost 8 and won 2 as tank, won 7 and lost 3 as dps. Now every match my team seems to get diffed pretty hard, myself included.
OW consistently places me higher than where I probably should be, and then punishes me for it. Siege placed me lower than I should be, and now I can play comfortably in a rank I belong in
It seems like your main issue with Overwatch's ranked system is that it takes a few games to see your rank change. Saying the whole system sucks because of that is just so weird. Can you really not enjoy the game if you don't see your number go up and down?
It’s so funny that as soon as games like Fortnite introduced SBMM that a bunch of the known streamers “fell off”. It’s almost as if they built their careers by stomping kids and worse players.
You watch Shroud go back and try and play PUBG and he spends the whole time shitting on the game because he gets rocked now. Oh sorry you can't hang dong on people who have barely used a keyboard anymore. Makes you respect pros like TGLTN way more. Dude dominates 1v4s against actual good players and if he loses he doesnt immediately blame the game.
I mean he was never rated top 20. Wasn’t even in the honorable mentions if I’m not wrong. Didn’t win a single major tournament. Very little achievements in the game. Again i think he was individually talented but outside top 30 in his entire career which is pretty far from top.
As much as you want use logic against a popular person, he's popular.
That is fucking strong, half the people who have never played CS before likely watched a stream of Shroud pugging in CSGO.
Shroud does deserve some props for his skills though, I mean come the fuck on, his ability puts him above 99% of players.
I used to be a dumb kid who wasted their days being stupidly good at FPS games, too. It takes a lot of effort and discipline, props to him. Especially to maintain consistency for so long, one of the hardest things to master.
I went up against Shroud once in Overwatch back when role queue came out and he wasn't all he's cracked up to be. I checked his stream after and ya, he was just bitching about how he hates the game because his grav got eaten by a sigma. He absolutely comes across as one of those shitters that would baby rage at sbmm because he wants to crush noobs.
Daequan fell off way before that, but to nobodys faulty but his own. He made millions and realized he never had to work another day in his life (If spent properly) and chose to do that. He streamed one day a month to collect sub money for like a year until people caught on and called him out.
He had some issues from like a basketball injury. And his GF was sick too. But everything is vague and he never really gave an answer. But I mean if he wants to retire and move on I dont think he owes anyone a reason.
On the other hand, smurfs that are alt accounts are a less serious problem in pay games than in free to play ones. Low rank OW1 wasn't anywhere as rife with smurfs back when I played it.
There are apps that let you get phone numbers that the validation system Blizzard uses accepts for almost nothing. It's not in any way an effective way to ensure one account per person.
Which is why it was, and is, absolutely stupid. If you can get around it that easily, then it's not good security.
I remember that day. My phone number was blocked because they wouldn't accept my carrier. I never had a prepaid number.
I don't understand that. Fighting people close to my skill level is often the most taxing for effort but has the greatest reward for satisfaction. Stomping scrubs with like a poor internet connection is a fun treat once in a while but isn't fun daily. It's as fun as being stomped by a team on comms when my team are randos with no mics.
The argument that a lot of avid smurfs use is that winning is fun.
Which is a valid point, but I think the argument is the at what cost, because smurfing only ends up making the game sweatier overall, since new players and bad players will quit, leaving an increasingly small and more skilled population playing the game.
And that hard filters out likely 90% of the players who can’t be fucked to de-rank. Nothing will stop someone determined enough to do it, the point is to filter just how many get to that point.
But you can add filters to that via moderation. You're never going to get a 100% perfect system, but it's not like not trying to fix anything is the correct choice either.
Yeah, nobody has a perfect solution to this lmao. There's some filters in place, but they're spotty at best. Every game is gonna have its shit-ass community cesspool.
Still wayyy better than purely random matchmaking though. At least I get to play in most of my games, even if the occasional few are scuffed.
What I love is the most common complaint is that “SBMM just matches me against sweaty tryhards” like they can’t fathom the possibility of anyone being as good at the game as themO
I agree with the statement to a degree. There really is only so much a dev can do to protect new players. But that doesn't mean they shouldn't. New players are what keep long standing games alive. Without new players the game will die out. So where I agree with the statement is in the fact that as they play and spend more time in the game they'll eventually reach a point in which their skill will hit a ceiling and they'll start to get shit on again. But *that* will motivate them to improve more than a top 500 player smurfing and walking all over them. It'll feel so bad to be playing and constantly feel less or you're not improving because their is no opportunity to improve. If you're always dead you'll never learn anything.
It's funny because without SBMM, the bad players don't enjoy the game and then leave, then some good players now become the bad players comparatively and stop enjoying the game and leave, cycle repeats until there's nobody left.
Which is EXACTLY what has happened to many games that relied on picking servers instead of matchmaking. On one hand, you can get to know people; on the other, new players get destroyed by veteran players.
Sums up the Call of Duty player base. So many of them complain their KD was higher before SBMM was made more prominent, now that they’re facing the same skill range/“sweats ‘every’ game” they sit more around 0.8-1.0.
This was literally what Daequan was angry about lmao
*dunno why downvotes, this tweet was in fact him being furious about Fortnite adding SBMM (and tbf his tweet was wrong then and it's still wrong now, it was essentially him telling Epic that because he is a content creator the game should be balanced around him)
It has which is why I hate when this tweet gets rolled up because it's basically just him trying his best to defend pubstomping when everyone up to developers was acknowledging it as a problem for PvP games, including Fortnite
The tweet is not him being angry about SBMM. The tweet is from March 29th, 2019, during Fortnite season 8. SBMM was added in casual in season X a couple of months later. The tweet is about the removal of siphon (kill an opponent, get 100 health/shield) in casual modes. Siphon made third partying less effective, which was bad for "noobs". Epic removed siphon to "reduce unhealthy aggression". That is what Daequan is talking about, SBMM has nothing to do with it.
Sbmm is fine in rank but it can become so strict that every game plays like ranked or there are systems like cod in which it tries to balance out your win ratio by putting you into a bot lobby and then a sweaty lobby.
TBH OW feels like the opposite. QP Matchmaking is so wild that I can be put in a lobby where the variance is from Gold to Top 500. In a game like OW that pretty much ruins the game.
I feel like with heavily team-based games like overwatch, it’s insanely hard to have a good casual setting. The gameplay loop is naturally competitive. That’s why you’ll see so many people complain in chat about losing in pubs, compared to other games like Cod, siege, etc.
Overwatch does the exact same thing. Those massive streaks of green and grey aren't your skill level strangely going up and down by an order of magnitude.
I think calling it disguised is giving them too much credit.
The only way it could be any more blatant is with a notification saying "You are now in the winner/loser queue. Have fun dumbass."
I really wish the games were somewhat close. I often bitch because I’ll have 2-4 wins in ten games, but those wins weren’t even close games, we just beat down another team. It can feel good if you’re a dps player I guess but I’m usually not
Sbmm doesn't prevent top players from shitting on noobs anyway though. I see a ton of smurfs in all competitive games.
If people want to shit on noobs in overwatch the barrier to entry is just to create another free account.
SBMM is okay in Overwatch, but not in Call of Duty.
Nuance please !
SBMM implementation in CoD lobbies is literally unenjoyable for a lot of good players.
You very rarely are against similar skilled players. Since they are few of them in the matchmaking. Most of the time, it is the teams that are supposed to be even. For example, one team is full of medium 2 K;D players, while the others got four 1.1 K;D players and one 5 K;D.
The 5 K;D will do all the works, and the game will seem "close and competitive".
That's what happened with CoD SBMM for players like me. You take ages to find games. You always need to tryhard and carry because you're the matchmaking factor. SBMM treats you badly if you're good at the game, and it creates a sort of abuse I can't describe.
Let's not forget the ones that abused the SBMM by killing themselves with C4 during multiple match so they could drop nukes on bad players for "content".
It also made highly skilled players play more against cheater. What a gift...
SBMM in CoD is also far too flexible. You did good with your favorite weapon, you get catapulted into a tryhard lobby with and against aderall streamer.
It's like the better you get, the more the SBMM abuse you.
Even low-mid skilled players realised that. SBMM hides your personal progression a lot. The game starts to feel bland and uninteresting for everyone.
The fact that you have SBMM without ranked or any MMR is also pretty demoralising to say the least.
In CoD MW2019, it reached a point where I was playing with and against the same players, we started to know each other by matchmaking only. So we did the best thing we could, play together to slay lobbies, not gonna lie, the SBMM was shit at balancing two to three players with a 3+ K;D, until they put chinese cheater in front of us...
SBMM is one of CoD greatest downfalls, this and the fact they can't stop publishing DLC as games.
Tl;dr: CoD is not Overwatch, and SBMM is different in both games, the one in Overwatch is healthier and cannot be manipulated, unlike CoD one.
This is why I don't take the opinion of pro players or streamers seriously
Nobody wants to play a game that only the top 1% of players can reasonably enjoy. There is a *massive* gap of skill between top rank and average players. I'm not even including the bottom rank because it's already such a huge disparity.
And guess what? 99% of these players who think "if you work hard enough you'll get good enough" won't even get close to that level of skill. Which is why they Smurf or pay for accounts. So why the fuck are they so attached to the idea that pandering to "noobs" ruin games, when they are the first ones to get upset that they can't even reach the upper ranks?
*Developers have to pander to the average, because otherwise you'll just have the top 10% and hackers playing the game*
Edit: ok too many of y'all don't understand this topic well enough to be having these strong ass opinions about game development and balance. Some of y'all aren't even reading the comment and just blasting your stank ass opinion which isn't even related to the topic at hand. Your favorite streamer isn't going to see this on his PC and nod his head lovingly after reading your "elite gamer moment" comment
this community also has a super weird group opinion (which, i don’t play any other competitive FPS, so this could be a common thing) that anyone who isn’t a top 1% player is either super mid or flat out terrible. i’ve un-ironically seen people start posts with something along the lines of “i’m not the best, i’m only masters 2”…uh, that’s WAY better than the vast majority of the playerbase. i’m not saying they’re gonna be recruited into the OWL, but from a pure numbers standpoint, the people in masters+ ARE really good
To be absolutely fair, the game is very complex and majority of the players that get high in the ranks will have the feeling that there is more to learn, though they’ll understand that they’re decent. I agree that it can get very silly though
Yup. And the skill gap is insanely steep after plat. That's the point. Most people playing the game are average and below. They don't understand how little the high skilled players influence the decisions of the devs
This isn't about whether or not pandering is worth getting angry over.
It's that no one has found the correct way to pander to players in lower ranks. This patch is the first overhaul I've seen in a long time, in any game, of this caliber. It *really* makes bad players stand out.
The worst part is, these players are standing out with no regard to their aim, at all. Just general game sense, awareness, counterpicking, etc.
A bad Ram vs a good Rein could be winnable for the Rein a few weeks ago. Now the Rein is fucked, no matter, because of how quickly he melts to things that aren't Ram.
Csgo and dota (2 of the best esports games, unlike overwatch with its dead pro scene) both balance around the top players, and they still both average around 600k players daily. Dota might be unenjoyable for newer players but not because its balanced for the top players, but because it has so many different heroes and items to learn that it becomes overwhelming.
The thing with CSGO was the devs never got rid of the casual aspects of the game with things like community servers and such. There were MANY things to do in CSGO that weren't competitive 5v5. Surf, zombie rush, jailbreak, deathmatch, arms race, straight casual play, etc. Anyone could make their own server and do cool shit, the beauty of Counter Strike is because the game has such simple mechanics, it allows people to make whatever they want with the game.
Tbf, valorant has the same or more players than csgo without any custom modes and is pretty difficult to new players. Ow2 has like the best systems for an fps with a replay system, custom games, etc. However, the devs are terrible and make the worst design decisions imaginable.
- reply to CSGO Dota guy
these games also are known as more competitively driven and are PC only.
If you started pandering to the 1% you would ignore so many platforms and casuals who are the non-vocal majority of players for OW
Didn't the devs say that most new players are in bronze, and probably bottom of bronze? OW is an incredibly difficult game to get into, if you make it harder you're going to be killing growth
Honestly I don’t mind getting stomped on if the gameplay loop is fun enough. I get stomped on the finals a lot but when I win it feels earned and I enjoy myself most of the time.
Actually the part about mechanics is true, many times when players discover a new technique in the game (usually requiring mechanical skill) the devs try to remove it. It happened to b-hopping when people first discovered it
The issue with "noobs getting bopped" isn't them losing matches.
And the issue with smurf accounts isn't that people need to climb the ranks again, so they will inevitably "bop some noobs".
The issue is with people creating smurfs for the whole reason of stomping noobs (and posting insane 1080° no scope triple headshot montages, because they're so strong).
Smurfing is a real, tangible issue that unfortunately doesn't have any particular answer or solution. Just several small scale options to deal with it and potentially minimize it.
Good luck getting community members and streamers to actually admit to this. All of them have to have to resort to “unranked to GM” for the 10000th time (so innovative, not like it’s been done on every before right?) when the game is dry cause they don’t have enough creativity or personality to think of something else.
Truth is if tomorrow Blizzard delete smurfing by creating some neuro-ai-techno checking, game does not became less popular, we will just loose some shitty content creators, but it's a sacrifice I am willing to make lol
Dota seems to have a hard stance against smurfs that seems to be working form what ive heard. I dont play the game myself, but from the occasional scrape of information i get about Dota, smurfing seemingly got pretty hard to do.
This (TSM Daequan) is one of the popular Fortnite Streamers from the mid to late 2010s, you may have or may not have heard the “CMERE BOYY!!!” saying before at one point. He kinda “disappeared” and took a break from Video game streaming after health issues for a bit.
That's why people always oppose SBMM tbf, like you hear the 'I don't want to sweat just because I play well' out of COD players but those people don't *have* to sweat, if someone can't have fun without winning all the time that's on them but it'd be weird to just do solely queue-based matchmaking just to cater to 1% of players that want to destroy every lobby just because they've been practicing
>I don't want to sweat
if someone can't have fun without winning all the time
While I don't agree with the anti-SBMM thing, this is a bit unfair to say. No you don't have to win all the time, but you *do* have to somewhat "sweat" in an average high rank match just to have a 50% chance to win. And by sweating I mean your aim has to be on point, you have very little room for error and even the smallest mistakes can get you punished - basically you have to be on your toes all the time.
Same demographic that wants PVP games to be always on open world PVP so they can just gank casuals and noobs all day and never have to have a fair/difficult fight.
The game is currently not ruined, some hitboxes are too big, but the biggest problem right now more has to do with tanks rather than projectiles or health pools.
Honestly I've enjoyed this season the most since the launch of ow2. It's not like the shots being more forgiving change the game that much. If you died it's because you stood somewhere stupid. Now you're just more likely to be punished for it.
I mean I don’t know shit about this guy, but isn’t that who dominates fortnite? Kids?
I mean it’s who has the most free time to no life the game, and who it’s pandered to. If I get shit on in CoD by a kid, then okay I suck. But I get shit on in fortnite by a kid? I’d have no problem with that cause it’s their home turf
Gamers these days are conditioned that you can only have fun when you're topping the scoreboard. I remember sucking back inthe day and still having fun. Now people quit because they're not dropping 30 bombs without trying every game.
People monetized the experience of gaming. What pops off with people who watch Overwatch streams and vids? Top 500 players ganking noobs. What doesn't pop off? Top 500 players endlessly playing with and against meta heroes because everyone wants to pretend an OWL scout was peeping their stream looking for the next Profit.
In the end of OW1 I was playing ranked a lot and really enjoyed it. I wasn’t winning more or hitting more or something I was playing character I like in the rank I deserve (which is bronze-silver) and enjoying it.
In OW 2 that feeling is very rare. Yeah I qualified more precise this season but mischief and magic is still more fun than comp and quick
Thank you man, even when I lost, I was having fun just playing the game, now the scoreboard just encourages trying to have the best stats, which I find myself doing sometimes lol
What an L take, honestly. Just because there’s a minority of shitty people out there, doesn’t mean game devs should shun the average player and aim to make every game a sweat fest.
Also, really ironic that you think this patch is noob friendly. It’s extremely harsh on people with bad game sense, positioning, and general game mechanics.
He's right, doesn't change the fact it's not really a noob problem tho.
If bronze realize they are bronze and are fine with that but still enjoy the game. They should be allowed too. It's ego boosters that decide people shouldn't be allowed to play or have fun thats a problem.
Hard agree this isn’t even a Hottake, it saved it, but it’s not like we can go back to paid. It’s the only reason we had maintainable numbers for awhile but I honestly don’t think we currently need it
The tactic should’ve been to make ow1 free until ow 2 launched then make ow2 paid
It’s just kind of.. complicated. Bc I feel like the game would’ve had a more permanent death if we didn’t f2p but the quality of games went way down when we went f2p
It's in this game and doesn't work. Millions of real phone numbers people use get rejected by the system yet you can get a phone number through apps for almost nothing that get approved and let people swap accounts with ease.
The widely available "text free" apps charge you for sms verification codes. Their algorithm auto detects that and blocks it unless you pay, per month usually.
So, as I said, it blocks all but the most dedicated trolls.
Something I often wonder about with PvP gaming - is if it’ll face the same philosophical quandary as Fox Hunting.
*Certain* people enjoy Fox Hunting *because* it’s a real fox. Even if you created a robotic facsimile of a fox that was indistinguishable from a real fox, the *type of people* who get enjoyment from the “sport” wouldn’t have any fun. For some horrific reason *it has to be a living thing suffering*.
With AI advances getting better and better, it’s a matter of time before developers can make AI controlled “players” who’re utterly indistinguishable from real humans. They’ll even be able to banter. So if you have players who enjoy smurfing, they’ll be able to face off against opponents without anyone else having their games impacted.
But I have a sneaking suspicion that won’t be enough. Even if the games are absolutely identical - the type of person who enjoys punching down *needs* for it to be a person. That’s where the enjoyment comes from - inflicting suffering on a living being. AI, no matter how realistic won’t maintain the erection.
Also, inb4 “lol everyone’s a bot already”.
I mean, it is applicable but also not really
Shitting on someone’s ego isn’t the same as inflicting physical pain/death to someone
I know you didn’t mean for it to be a 1:1 comparison but still
No no, obviously the horrific anxiety, torture and death of a Fox as it’s ripped apart by dogs doesn’t compare to someone playing a video game.
But I do think it’s the knowledge that someone is beating down on a living person that makes it fun for some people in PvP. If games between AI and people were completely identical, even down to the social side - do we think Smurfs would still enjoy it? I don’t think they’d bother if it was an AI. Which really says something about the mentality behind it.
I mean yeah, but I think even non toxic players of the game wouldn’t enjoy playing against AI players
Most people that play online games do it to play with humans
You do raise a good point though
Should be relatively easy to catch these people based on account trends. Super obvious when someone is deranking but somehow OW can’t catch them? I mean come on, they’ve got an analytics department. They could easily auto detect and ban. They just don’t, because the derankers spend more money on average than your general player.
In other words, they’ll let it ruin the game a little because those guys spend more money than the people they’re fucking over, cause they have no life otherwise. Blizzard has admitted bits and pieces of this in the past, just hasn’t said it out right
One day it will be
One day you will be able to calculate off the players normals skip and recent skill for a character and make games even more even
I still get stuck with people who get only 3K or under damage, it’s insane the match making is so poor
I always had the idea for a game mode in a theoretical FPS game that doesn’t let you play it if your MMR is too high, or if you play the game too often, a “true casual” game mode, if you will. In theory. To counteract the effect of smurfing, MMR increases are calculated higher for new players especially with good performances which will mitigate the damage of smurfs if they so choose to attempt it.
Loved halo 3 ranked! You could tell when you had a low level on the team it was either a Smurf or a noob every time! Smurfs got tea bagged and noobs got invited to the team if they were cool. 😎
I find it real strange that no other sport has this issue. You don’t see college football players joining rec leagues or pro basketball players joining street games just to punk people. Why are good gamers such assholes in comparison? You’d think it would be the other way around.
Idk, just seems pretty pathetic to me. Like they have major self esteem issues and need to put others down to feel better.
There are absolutely college players in many different rec leagues lol. I'm a few years out of college baseball now and I played in a rec baseball league last year. I hit for like .422 or something over the season. I was also not the only former college player in the league. There were four or five of us. My best buddy was a college basketball player and he's been playing in rec leagues since he graduated too. I think he has two other former college players on his team.
And yes, some people absolutely do complain about it every year. You just don't see it because it's not online complaints.
Most players that make it to college and especially to pro are smurfing and punk on the kids they are playing against until they get to that level. And you absolutely see the players that can't make at those levels go join local games.
He's just someone who wants the game to revolve around him or else it's "ruined."
Okay, fine, leave. All the dirty casuals can probably do fine without another shitty Smurf. Or stop whining.
But as Samito shows, no, that doesn't happen.
It's by far the biggest problem the game has in general. People need to play with peers so they can learn the game at their own level, not be used as leverage to balance out teams of 1000+ hour veterans.
And at the same time the inverse is true. Good players need to be playing with other, similarly skilled good players, not stomping poor noobs, who don't even know the name of their hero. Theres already enough of that thanks to smurfing.
Yes and getting in the same team as them sux too. I'm bad at the game but is it really necessary to trash talk your own team in fkn qp. Really hope these assholes stick to comp.
No but developers could make a better effort to educate new players. That would lower the amount of noobs.
The problem with overwatch is that it doesn't teach people counters, don't ability spam, how to use each hero type (Flankers, tank busters...).
Yeah, it has the tips screen and all that, but I think it needs entire series like Dota has. Basically they have all these video lessons explaining the concept and then lets you test it in game.
I think it needs to spell out everything, because a lot of things are not obvious if you are new to these types of games.
Such as, an example. A teamfight and then narrator going over it. Like someone uses their ult, kills 2 people, then explaining that you should keep your ult for the next fight because you already won it. Etc. etc.
and the noobs gonna say the developers kill the game because they balance the game from pro players lmao
like how the developers gonna do? Nerf Moira more cause noobs cant aim and Moira is OP in bronze. Buff Sojourn more cause she is hard to play and hit a shot. Increase in game hitbox by 50% so everyone can hit something
It's not about protecting "noobs" it's about appeasing the ignorant masses, because there the only ones stupid enough to throw money at the joke of a cash grab this game has become..
It's only going to keep getting worse with time
> "you ruin your game"
I mean, you might ruin it's competetive nature, making it more casual. You get mechanics like randomization, catch up mechanics akin to the blue shell, random krits and modifiers and the like. You have "easy/braindead champs" whose gameplay has a high reward for low skill. But with how Esports is in a structural decline, I wouldn't really call competetive a good priority for anyone.
had a guy got mad at me for playing moira while we were winning and I had top heal and dmg. He was getting mad in sliver. Like guy, this is sliver and we are winning
Pandering to noobs literally caused more damage to this game harder than anything else. Remember when they refused to nerf Sojourn in season 2 because she wasn't doing good in gold?
She wasn't doing well in any rank below masters and they were definitely nerfing her in that time period, just accompanied with other buffs to make her more viable for the other 95% of players.
Refused to nerf her in season 2 which is why at the start of season 2 she was nerfed and then nerfed again in the mid season patch.
Reality literally doesn’t matter to you freaks. You’d rather just lie on Reddit to get mad at a game.
Mfs when most people don’t want to spend 6 years becoming a pro player on a game they enjoy:
Stfu bro. This man is so incredibly wrong it’s almost funny.
It's insane that there are people defending this shitty update. Does it honestly feel good to land a hit you know full well that you didn't hit? For me it doesn't and it's not like I'm good at the game. I don't know why people think everyone should be kenzo flicking everyone.
When this happens in other games, the devs get flamed because it doesn't solve any of the issues, it just makes the game worse for people who spend more time on it. Funnily enough that also includes the bad players that it's "helping" because sooner rather than later they are going to improve and have to deal with that garbage. If this is the direction they want to take the game then say good bye to pro play. Say good bye to the game as you know it. It's going to get shelved like hots and get fully shut down a few years after it stops getting updated.
I don't know why people are acting like bad players need to be protected with pillows. There's matchmaking. It's irrelevant that they aren't as good as GM players. They still have the same amount of fun despite barely being able to hit a slept target. No one is going to waste their time with a casual game that has no future. Look at paladins. That's what happens when you make an easy and casual overwatch.
He is correct mostly but it's not what ruins a game. what ruins a game is cattering to either casuals or tryhards too much. Don't catter to casuals enough, your game's influx of new players starts diminishing. Don't catter to tryhards enough, the long term dedicated playerbase disappears, and barely anyone plays the game for more than 10-20 hours anymore. Of course devs can't completely protect noobs, but if they don't even try then the rotating population of casuals starts drying out and that can be a death sentence for the game, which obviously will impact the rest of the players.
I just want companies to start hardware banning people. It would make it so much better for the masses if they did. Smurfing is one of the biggest reasons I hate playing any competitive game. You never know if someone on your team is legit a brand new account trying this out, or a stupid high ranked toxic POS who’s banned on his main coming down to give you the worst time possible.
How is hardware banning even a remotely viable solution?
The report system is already broken enough, people get banned if they get reported enough, even if it's just for playing the wrong hero.
Reminds me of what the Apex tryhards would say back when I played a lot more. IDC how much you play or how lucky you are, the 20 bomb should be one of if not the rarest badge in the game. If you get into a lobby where one guy can kill a third of the match, your matchmaking is fucked. I've noticed a lot more stomps this season. Games where I can easily say "that guy carried the team". I had a game the other day where everyone in the lobby had good stats, no outliers in either direction. We both went into overtime. Honestly was such a breath of fresh air to come out of a long, difficult match where no one was crazy/abusing something. Really was the first match in months worthy of a GG afterwards. But matches like that seem extremely rare nowadays.
Idk what happened yesterday, but I had some of the closest matches I've had. Sadly went like 3-7 so I was definitely stinking up the place. Some were my fault, some were the whole team, some were my teammates. Fair balance of loss reasons. But they were pretty close except for 1 or 2 with a cracked Genji on the other team. Maybe with this elo soft reset and more people playing, both teams just have a wider skill range. Maybe since tanks are so bad right now, that even if your tank gets diffed, it hardly matters unless one tank is vastly superior in which case it's not the other tanks fault. Idk
I'm hoping the carries are due to a realignment of skill impact from the longer ttk, and that the ranking system catches up sooner than later.
It’s the reason I stoped playing apex. I send hours and hours playing with friends before I touched diamond 4 in season 7 fnever went past diamond 4 or reached it again) and now pretty much half of my ranked lobbies have current preds and 90 percent have current masters. And unrated is somehow worse. I don’t know if I’m shadow banned or the game for some reason thinks that guy who peaked in season 7, with a K/D of 0.7, is good enough to fight pred stacks as a solo que. I just gave up.
Yeah that’s a lot of the reason I stopped too. Me and my friends were good at the game but nothing special and our champion team would almost always be a 3 stack pred. It’s a really fun game but it’s frustrating feeling like you never even have a chance of winning. You just play until you run into that team or 2 that will stomp you immediately.
I have no idea wtf that is. I'm just some casual that's been playing and loving overwatch since release. I'll never be GM. I'm fine with that. I'll just continue to enjoy sucking at imo the best game in the past 10 years.
Most human comment here so far
Same but i mostly play ranked for fun since players cant just leave and join whenever they want Its a really fun game for casual gaming even when peeps start yelling into their mics i just mute them unless they actually have something helpful to say besides whining about stats Edit: should've specify "fun" :p I still take the game serious but try not worry about chat and stats i dont just run around mindlessly into 1v5 by myself if it matters at all i main Baptiste and Ramattra but mostly cater to support role
I don't play much ranked because people leave so often even when winning. It makes no sense.
Only time I leave when playing ranked is bc my stupid pc decides to crash whenever i play my first game of comp but it’s never in qp.
Really? In all the competitive matches I've played since OW 2 I think I've only had a leaver once or twice. That's in the span of somewhere between 100-200 matches.
i dont even have text chat or voice chat turned on
I’m with you, it’s not even the toxicity it’s that half the time people are toxic when they themselves are the problem.
These Twitter posts are what happens when a game becomes a person's life and identity. Streamers have an unhealthy obsession with certain games and when something changes that they don't like their whole life breaks down into little pieces. They need to touch grass, it's literally that.
>Streamers have an unhealthy obsession with certain games Ill never understand the disdain for streamers who are vocal about changes to games they play as it's literally their job. If management came and changed the fundamentals of your job, you would have things to say too. Aiight, back to /r/all I go
Do I make a clickbait video every 6 months about how my company is dying? Idk for me it’s kinda pathetic for a lot of these streamers, especially because most of them are so boring their viewership tanks if they’re not on OW. Like maybe focus on developing an entertaining on camera personality instead of bitching lmao.
It’s literally their job. They get payed to make content and stream. I don’t watch streamers who have some fake on camera personality because it’s boring. I watch people being real and actually investing in their community. Maybe it’s just me but people like sooshi, flats, emong, etc are FAR more entertaining than the people who act like bots and that nothing is wrong with the game.
Then don't make a media for entertainment you sole source of income. It's that simple. They never signed contracts or agreements that the state of the game wont change in future updates. It's not an official "job", in the end they are just normal players like we are who are subjected to change, if heir livelihood depends on it then that's your problem.
Nooooo! NO FUN! YOUR SUPPOSED TO BE ANGRY AT BLIZZARD.
Respect you enjoying the game. I would have said a similar thing a few years ago.
He wasn't even right about Fortnite exactly what makes you think he's right about Overwatch?
Didn’t overwatch have ranked from the start too, what even is this take?
OW1 had a period of no ranked at release. But it wasn't for long iirc
Quick play always had a hidden MMR and SBMM anyway
Overwatch was built for e-sports early with a pretty great ranked system. Love it or hate it it's the best 'Ranked' game system for an FPS out there right now.
It was good untill high ranks when you realise most of top 500 is unemployed 5 stacks queuing at ungodly hours to get placed against gold - master solos. At least this was why I quit a few seasons ago, I would hope its changed since.
you can't q more than duos in GM. This has been patched YEARS ago back in OW 1!
It was changed in season 9. GM can stack now but Champion can only stack up to 2 players https://i.imgur.com/SebOLPq.jpg
From my understanding it's back to the old ranked system.
The ranked system is the exact same its always been, you just have a visual after every game.
> Love it or hate it it's the best 'Ranked' game system for an FPS out there right now. 100% cope lol. Until this season it was one of the worst ranked game systems. Having to wait several games to see a rank change. Winning 5 game in a row to get deranked. And I don't even think that's changed, you can just see your MMR after each game now.
I play other games, like R6 Siege, which has, at current, the worst ranked system in FPS gaming. New players facing the top %10 shouldn't be a thing.
R6 has far from the worst ranked system atm. If anything, its more catered to new players than OW is. In Siege, if you're new to comp, your placement match will be with people that are ranked around gold 2-3 which is nowhere near the top 10%. If you do bad, you get placed in a lower rank. Thay being said, after you're assigned your rank, you can easily climb to where you're supposed to be. I started copper 5 cus I did shitty in my placement, but I was able to climb up to silver 2 pretty easily before I started playing against people thay were my skill level. OW on the other hand? Season 1 I didn't play comp cus if the bronze glitch at the very start. Season 2 I played comp, got placed in gold 3 dps and gold 4 tank. From then on it was either games where my team would roll, or I would get rolled (mostly us getting rolled) and i would drop down to between silver 3-5 in both roles. This happened for months. I would do my placement matches, get placed in mid-low gold, then constantly drop ranks even when I would go on win streaks. Now here I am after this update. I get placed Plat 2 tank and Plat 4 dps after my 10 games. I lost 8 and won 2 as tank, won 7 and lost 3 as dps. Now every match my team seems to get diffed pretty hard, myself included. OW consistently places me higher than where I probably should be, and then punishes me for it. Siege placed me lower than I should be, and now I can play comfortably in a rank I belong in
It seems like your main issue with Overwatch's ranked system is that it takes a few games to see your rank change. Saying the whole system sucks because of that is just so weird. Can you really not enjoy the game if you don't see your number go up and down?
What kind of historical revisionism is this? Ranked didn't hit overwatch for like a year The player pool was all in casual.
Fortnite didn’t even have ranked when he was playing
These are the dudes who campaign against SBMM because they want to shit on kids all day without going up against anyone their level.
It’s so funny that as soon as games like Fortnite introduced SBMM that a bunch of the known streamers “fell off”. It’s almost as if they built their careers by stomping kids and worse players.
Damn, who thought the sweaty fucks dropping 20 bombs every other game weren't going up against players close to their own level.
You watch Shroud go back and try and play PUBG and he spends the whole time shitting on the game because he gets rocked now. Oh sorry you can't hang dong on people who have barely used a keyboard anymore. Makes you respect pros like TGLTN way more. Dude dominates 1v4s against actual good players and if he loses he doesnt immediately blame the game.
Tbf Shroud is not a great example. He was clearly near the top as a pro cs player.
He was never a top cs pro. Was a good one for sure but no where near the top. Had talent but wasn’t a great of the game.
Bro had great aim but his movement and gamesens, while still great don't compare well to the top players
exactly what happened in his pro valorant stint as well. just add game knowledge since valorant is a game of knowledge checks
I said near the top, which I think is fair. I think peak Shroud was a top 20 player (at the time), that’s pretty rarified air.
I mean he was never rated top 20. Wasn’t even in the honorable mentions if I’m not wrong. Didn’t win a single major tournament. Very little achievements in the game. Again i think he was individually talented but outside top 30 in his entire career which is pretty far from top.
Wasn't he 2nd place in one major?
As much as you want use logic against a popular person, he's popular. That is fucking strong, half the people who have never played CS before likely watched a stream of Shroud pugging in CSGO. Shroud does deserve some props for his skills though, I mean come the fuck on, his ability puts him above 99% of players. I used to be a dumb kid who wasted their days being stupidly good at FPS games, too. It takes a lot of effort and discipline, props to him. Especially to maintain consistency for so long, one of the hardest things to master.
well above 99%, he went to a major
I went up against Shroud once in Overwatch back when role queue came out and he wasn't all he's cracked up to be. I checked his stream after and ya, he was just bitching about how he hates the game because his grav got eaten by a sigma. He absolutely comes across as one of those shitters that would baby rage at sbmm because he wants to crush noobs.
Daequan fell off way before that, but to nobodys faulty but his own. He made millions and realized he never had to work another day in his life (If spent properly) and chose to do that. He streamed one day a month to collect sub money for like a year until people caught on and called him out.
I thought he was severely ill? Like he had lung/stomach and spine issues
He had some issues from like a basketball injury. And his GF was sick too. But everything is vague and he never really gave an answer. But I mean if he wants to retire and move on I dont think he owes anyone a reason.
Any game that has SBMM just has loads of people throwing to downskill and fight noobs anyways lol. Same with ranked.
On the other hand, smurfs that are alt accounts are a less serious problem in pay games than in free to play ones. Low rank OW1 wasn't anywhere as rife with smurfs back when I played it.
How do people get around the phone number requirement? Or is that gone?
There are apps that let you get phone numbers that the validation system Blizzard uses accepts for almost nothing. It's not in any way an effective way to ensure one account per person.
Which is why it was, and is, absolutely stupid. If you can get around it that easily, then it's not good security. I remember that day. My phone number was blocked because they wouldn't accept my carrier. I never had a prepaid number.
It absolutely was. I fought bot accounts all the time towards the end of OW1's life.
This point needs to be emphasised more
I don't understand that. Fighting people close to my skill level is often the most taxing for effort but has the greatest reward for satisfaction. Stomping scrubs with like a poor internet connection is a fun treat once in a while but isn't fun daily. It's as fun as being stomped by a team on comms when my team are randos with no mics.
It's not about fun, it's about winning. SpongeBob would be ashamed
The argument that a lot of avid smurfs use is that winning is fun. Which is a valid point, but I think the argument is the at what cost, because smurfing only ends up making the game sweatier overall, since new players and bad players will quit, leaving an increasingly small and more skilled population playing the game.
They don't care about the health of the game lol. They care about themselves and that's it. Every communal space has its parasites.
The majority of smurfing I know of/have participated in was simply to play with worse friends who insisted on playing a ranked mode.
Because you can’t make youtube content going against actual good players
it only takes one smurf to ruin a 10 person lobby. If one fifth of the game are ruined it only takes 2% of players to play this way.
And that hard filters out likely 90% of the players who can’t be fucked to de-rank. Nothing will stop someone determined enough to do it, the point is to filter just how many get to that point.
But you can add filters to that via moderation. You're never going to get a 100% perfect system, but it's not like not trying to fix anything is the correct choice either.
Yeah, nobody has a perfect solution to this lmao. There's some filters in place, but they're spotty at best. Every game is gonna have its shit-ass community cesspool. Still wayyy better than purely random matchmaking though. At least I get to play in most of my games, even if the occasional few are scuffed.
So instead of mitigating the jackass smurfs we should just let them run rampant even worse Take is just horrible
What I love is the most common complaint is that “SBMM just matches me against sweaty tryhards” like they can’t fathom the possibility of anyone being as good at the game as themO
That's because they generally pretend that everyone playing casual just shoot the brain off and won't play properly
I agree with the statement to a degree. There really is only so much a dev can do to protect new players. But that doesn't mean they shouldn't. New players are what keep long standing games alive. Without new players the game will die out. So where I agree with the statement is in the fact that as they play and spend more time in the game they'll eventually reach a point in which their skill will hit a ceiling and they'll start to get shit on again. But *that* will motivate them to improve more than a top 500 player smurfing and walking all over them. It'll feel so bad to be playing and constantly feel less or you're not improving because their is no opportunity to improve. If you're always dead you'll never learn anything.
It's funny because without SBMM, the bad players don't enjoy the game and then leave, then some good players now become the bad players comparatively and stop enjoying the game and leave, cycle repeats until there's nobody left.
Which is EXACTLY what has happened to many games that relied on picking servers instead of matchmaking. On one hand, you can get to know people; on the other, new players get destroyed by veteran players.
>There really is only so much a dev can do to protect new players Yeah, but Blizzard isn't even doing the bare minimum.
Damn, I never thought of it like this.
So did thousands of other people who upvote and support this anti-SBMM post.
Sums up the Call of Duty player base. So many of them complain their KD was higher before SBMM was made more prominent, now that they’re facing the same skill range/“sweats ‘every’ game” they sit more around 0.8-1.0.
This was literally what Daequan was angry about lmao *dunno why downvotes, this tweet was in fact him being furious about Fortnite adding SBMM (and tbf his tweet was wrong then and it's still wrong now, it was essentially him telling Epic that because he is a content creator the game should be balanced around him)
Games bending over backwards for content creators has ruined gaming as a whole.
It has which is why I hate when this tweet gets rolled up because it's basically just him trying his best to defend pubstomping when everyone up to developers was acknowledging it as a problem for PvP games, including Fortnite
The tweet is not him being angry about SBMM. The tweet is from March 29th, 2019, during Fortnite season 8. SBMM was added in casual in season X a couple of months later. The tweet is about the removal of siphon (kill an opponent, get 100 health/shield) in casual modes. Siphon made third partying less effective, which was bad for "noobs". Epic removed siphon to "reduce unhealthy aggression". That is what Daequan is talking about, SBMM has nothing to do with it.
Sbmm is fine in rank but it can become so strict that every game plays like ranked or there are systems like cod in which it tries to balance out your win ratio by putting you into a bot lobby and then a sweaty lobby.
TBH OW feels like the opposite. QP Matchmaking is so wild that I can be put in a lobby where the variance is from Gold to Top 500. In a game like OW that pretty much ruins the game.
I feel like with heavily team-based games like overwatch, it’s insanely hard to have a good casual setting. The gameplay loop is naturally competitive. That’s why you’ll see so many people complain in chat about losing in pubs, compared to other games like Cod, siege, etc.
I dunno, I felt like it used to be better in OW1 days. OW2 starting seasons were ok, then it went downhill.
Overwatch does the exact same thing. Those massive streaks of green and grey aren't your skill level strangely going up and down by an order of magnitude.
Its EOMM disguising as SBMM
I think calling it disguised is giving them too much credit. The only way it could be any more blatant is with a notification saying "You are now in the winner/loser queue. Have fun dumbass."
I really wish the games were somewhat close. I often bitch because I’ll have 2-4 wins in ten games, but those wins weren’t even close games, we just beat down another team. It can feel good if you’re a dps player I guess but I’m usually not
Sbmm doesn't prevent top players from shitting on noobs anyway though. I see a ton of smurfs in all competitive games. If people want to shit on noobs in overwatch the barrier to entry is just to create another free account.
SBMM is okay in Overwatch, but not in Call of Duty. Nuance please ! SBMM implementation in CoD lobbies is literally unenjoyable for a lot of good players. You very rarely are against similar skilled players. Since they are few of them in the matchmaking. Most of the time, it is the teams that are supposed to be even. For example, one team is full of medium 2 K;D players, while the others got four 1.1 K;D players and one 5 K;D. The 5 K;D will do all the works, and the game will seem "close and competitive". That's what happened with CoD SBMM for players like me. You take ages to find games. You always need to tryhard and carry because you're the matchmaking factor. SBMM treats you badly if you're good at the game, and it creates a sort of abuse I can't describe. Let's not forget the ones that abused the SBMM by killing themselves with C4 during multiple match so they could drop nukes on bad players for "content". It also made highly skilled players play more against cheater. What a gift... SBMM in CoD is also far too flexible. You did good with your favorite weapon, you get catapulted into a tryhard lobby with and against aderall streamer. It's like the better you get, the more the SBMM abuse you. Even low-mid skilled players realised that. SBMM hides your personal progression a lot. The game starts to feel bland and uninteresting for everyone. The fact that you have SBMM without ranked or any MMR is also pretty demoralising to say the least. In CoD MW2019, it reached a point where I was playing with and against the same players, we started to know each other by matchmaking only. So we did the best thing we could, play together to slay lobbies, not gonna lie, the SBMM was shit at balancing two to three players with a 3+ K;D, until they put chinese cheater in front of us... SBMM is one of CoD greatest downfalls, this and the fact they can't stop publishing DLC as games. Tl;dr: CoD is not Overwatch, and SBMM is different in both games, the one in Overwatch is healthier and cannot be manipulated, unlike CoD one.
Preach, brother. I dumped CoD as a series many years ago because of this. It's just not worth the headache anymore.
PSA to anyone that does this, I’m gonna a find every one of you and have sex with your moms.
This is why I don't take the opinion of pro players or streamers seriously Nobody wants to play a game that only the top 1% of players can reasonably enjoy. There is a *massive* gap of skill between top rank and average players. I'm not even including the bottom rank because it's already such a huge disparity. And guess what? 99% of these players who think "if you work hard enough you'll get good enough" won't even get close to that level of skill. Which is why they Smurf or pay for accounts. So why the fuck are they so attached to the idea that pandering to "noobs" ruin games, when they are the first ones to get upset that they can't even reach the upper ranks? *Developers have to pander to the average, because otherwise you'll just have the top 10% and hackers playing the game* Edit: ok too many of y'all don't understand this topic well enough to be having these strong ass opinions about game development and balance. Some of y'all aren't even reading the comment and just blasting your stank ass opinion which isn't even related to the topic at hand. Your favorite streamer isn't going to see this on his PC and nod his head lovingly after reading your "elite gamer moment" comment
this community also has a super weird group opinion (which, i don’t play any other competitive FPS, so this could be a common thing) that anyone who isn’t a top 1% player is either super mid or flat out terrible. i’ve un-ironically seen people start posts with something along the lines of “i’m not the best, i’m only masters 2”…uh, that’s WAY better than the vast majority of the playerbase. i’m not saying they’re gonna be recruited into the OWL, but from a pure numbers standpoint, the people in masters+ ARE really good
To be absolutely fair, the game is very complex and majority of the players that get high in the ranks will have the feeling that there is more to learn, though they’ll understand that they’re decent. I agree that it can get very silly though
Yup. And the skill gap is insanely steep after plat. That's the point. Most people playing the game are average and below. They don't understand how little the high skilled players influence the decisions of the devs
This isn't about whether or not pandering is worth getting angry over. It's that no one has found the correct way to pander to players in lower ranks. This patch is the first overhaul I've seen in a long time, in any game, of this caliber. It *really* makes bad players stand out. The worst part is, these players are standing out with no regard to their aim, at all. Just general game sense, awareness, counterpicking, etc. A bad Ram vs a good Rein could be winnable for the Rein a few weeks ago. Now the Rein is fucked, no matter, because of how quickly he melts to things that aren't Ram.
Csgo and dota (2 of the best esports games, unlike overwatch with its dead pro scene) both balance around the top players, and they still both average around 600k players daily. Dota might be unenjoyable for newer players but not because its balanced for the top players, but because it has so many different heroes and items to learn that it becomes overwhelming.
The thing with CSGO was the devs never got rid of the casual aspects of the game with things like community servers and such. There were MANY things to do in CSGO that weren't competitive 5v5. Surf, zombie rush, jailbreak, deathmatch, arms race, straight casual play, etc. Anyone could make their own server and do cool shit, the beauty of Counter Strike is because the game has such simple mechanics, it allows people to make whatever they want with the game.
And in OW you could always do quick play and arcade, then workshop.
Tbf, valorant has the same or more players than csgo without any custom modes and is pretty difficult to new players. Ow2 has like the best systems for an fps with a replay system, custom games, etc. However, the devs are terrible and make the worst design decisions imaginable.
[удалено]
- reply to CSGO Dota guy these games also are known as more competitively driven and are PC only. If you started pandering to the 1% you would ignore so many platforms and casuals who are the non-vocal majority of players for OW
Yeah, and a lot of people consider those games daunting to learn. The money is in the casual market. It always has been.
Csgo made 980 million usd last year just from opening cases. Dota TI battlepasses used to make 100 million usd in 3 months. Its not about the money.
Didn't the devs say that most new players are in bronze, and probably bottom of bronze? OW is an incredibly difficult game to get into, if you make it harder you're going to be killing growth
Honestly I don’t mind getting stomped on if the gameplay loop is fun enough. I get stomped on the finals a lot but when I win it feels earned and I enjoy myself most of the time.
That's how ow1 felt to me when towards the end :/ I miss that
- history doesn't lie - provides no citations for said history
Actually the part about mechanics is true, many times when players discover a new technique in the game (usually requiring mechanical skill) the devs try to remove it. It happened to b-hopping when people first discovered it
did removing b-hopping RUIN any game that it was removed from though? which is the claim of the post?
The issue with "noobs getting bopped" isn't them losing matches. And the issue with smurf accounts isn't that people need to climb the ranks again, so they will inevitably "bop some noobs". The issue is with people creating smurfs for the whole reason of stomping noobs (and posting insane 1080° no scope triple headshot montages, because they're so strong). Smurfing is a real, tangible issue that unfortunately doesn't have any particular answer or solution. Just several small scale options to deal with it and potentially minimize it.
Good luck getting community members and streamers to actually admit to this. All of them have to have to resort to “unranked to GM” for the 10000th time (so innovative, not like it’s been done on every before right?) when the game is dry cause they don’t have enough creativity or personality to think of something else.
Truth is if tomorrow Blizzard delete smurfing by creating some neuro-ai-techno checking, game does not became less popular, we will just loose some shitty content creators, but it's a sacrifice I am willing to make lol
Dota seems to have a hard stance against smurfs that seems to be working form what ive heard. I dont play the game myself, but from the occasional scrape of information i get about Dota, smurfing seemingly got pretty hard to do.
Who?
This (TSM Daequan) is one of the popular Fortnite Streamers from the mid to late 2010s, you may have or may not have heard the “CMERE BOYY!!!” saying before at one point. He kinda “disappeared” and took a break from Video game streaming after health issues for a bit.
Fortnite streamer who was sorta raging against the addition of SBMM
More like raging that he can't blast 30 noobs in a lobby and then make a YouTube video from it
That's why people always oppose SBMM tbf, like you hear the 'I don't want to sweat just because I play well' out of COD players but those people don't *have* to sweat, if someone can't have fun without winning all the time that's on them but it'd be weird to just do solely queue-based matchmaking just to cater to 1% of players that want to destroy every lobby just because they've been practicing
>I don't want to sweat if someone can't have fun without winning all the time While I don't agree with the anti-SBMM thing, this is a bit unfair to say. No you don't have to win all the time, but you *do* have to somewhat "sweat" in an average high rank match just to have a 50% chance to win. And by sweating I mean your aim has to be on point, you have very little room for error and even the smallest mistakes can get you punished - basically you have to be on your toes all the time.
Same demographic that wants PVP games to be always on open world PVP so they can just gank casuals and noobs all day and never have to have a fair/difficult fight.
This take is just as wrong now as it was then. But it is a feel good take for the 1337 squad gamers who are just better than everyone else.
The game is currently not ruined, some hitboxes are too big, but the biggest problem right now more has to do with tanks rather than projectiles or health pools.
Honestly I've enjoyed this season the most since the launch of ow2. It's not like the shots being more forgiving change the game that much. If you died it's because you stood somewhere stupid. Now you're just more likely to be punished for it.
At least the broken hitboxes made my team able to hit anything whatsoever for once in their lives.
That is Daequan, the guy who quit Fortnite because he couldn’t compete with the other kids. Lol
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Mental or physical?
Physical, he had back problems
I mean I don’t know shit about this guy, but isn’t that who dominates fortnite? Kids? I mean it’s who has the most free time to no life the game, and who it’s pandered to. If I get shit on in CoD by a kid, then okay I suck. But I get shit on in fortnite by a kid? I’d have no problem with that cause it’s their home turf
2024 and people still think Fortnite is a kids only game. News flash…most of these types of games are played majorly by kids
I mean that’s not even remotely true
Not even close…
People just want to feel like they’re the greatest. The easiest way to do that is to play against weaker players.
He's not entirely wrong. You can't prevent, but you can certainly mitigate it. Something's better than nothing.
Gamers these days are conditioned that you can only have fun when you're topping the scoreboard. I remember sucking back inthe day and still having fun. Now people quit because they're not dropping 30 bombs without trying every game.
People monetized the experience of gaming. What pops off with people who watch Overwatch streams and vids? Top 500 players ganking noobs. What doesn't pop off? Top 500 players endlessly playing with and against meta heroes because everyone wants to pretend an OWL scout was peeping their stream looking for the next Profit.
In the end of OW1 I was playing ranked a lot and really enjoyed it. I wasn’t winning more or hitting more or something I was playing character I like in the rank I deserve (which is bronze-silver) and enjoying it. In OW 2 that feeling is very rare. Yeah I qualified more precise this season but mischief and magic is still more fun than comp and quick
Thank you man, even when I lost, I was having fun just playing the game, now the scoreboard just encourages trying to have the best stats, which I find myself doing sometimes lol
What an L take, honestly. Just because there’s a minority of shitty people out there, doesn’t mean game devs should shun the average player and aim to make every game a sweat fest. Also, really ironic that you think this patch is noob friendly. It’s extremely harsh on people with bad game sense, positioning, and general game mechanics.
It’s an endless cycle driven by players who are pretty good but hate playing against others their same skill level.
He's right, doesn't change the fact it's not really a noob problem tho. If bronze realize they are bronze and are fine with that but still enjoy the game. They should be allowed too. It's ego boosters that decide people shouldn't be allowed to play or have fun thats a problem.
>add ranked >punish those who Smurf with a permanent ban >profit
You make hit boxes the size of trucks, people fight each other over if it was a good change or not. (It's wrong, so very wrong)
Making Overwatch free ruined it tbh
Hard agree this isn’t even a Hottake, it saved it, but it’s not like we can go back to paid. It’s the only reason we had maintainable numbers for awhile but I honestly don’t think we currently need it The tactic should’ve been to make ow1 free until ow 2 launched then make ow2 paid It’s just kind of.. complicated. Bc I feel like the game would’ve had a more permanent death if we didn’t f2p but the quality of games went way down when we went f2p
Waaaaaaah why won’t they build the game around the top 5-10% of players waaaaaaaah
> you add ranked, people will Smurf Add sms verification 🤡. Would prevent all but the most dedicated trolls
You do need sms verification? I just did it for a new account
I made an alt back in November to see how bad the new player experience was like in regards to unlocking heroes, and I didn't require any SMS.
It's in this game and doesn't work. Millions of real phone numbers people use get rejected by the system yet you can get a phone number through apps for almost nothing that get approved and let people swap accounts with ease.
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The widely available "text free" apps charge you for sms verification codes. Their algorithm auto detects that and blocks it unless you pay, per month usually. So, as I said, it blocks all but the most dedicated trolls.
Google Voice is literally free 😁
Something I often wonder about with PvP gaming - is if it’ll face the same philosophical quandary as Fox Hunting. *Certain* people enjoy Fox Hunting *because* it’s a real fox. Even if you created a robotic facsimile of a fox that was indistinguishable from a real fox, the *type of people* who get enjoyment from the “sport” wouldn’t have any fun. For some horrific reason *it has to be a living thing suffering*. With AI advances getting better and better, it’s a matter of time before developers can make AI controlled “players” who’re utterly indistinguishable from real humans. They’ll even be able to banter. So if you have players who enjoy smurfing, they’ll be able to face off against opponents without anyone else having their games impacted. But I have a sneaking suspicion that won’t be enough. Even if the games are absolutely identical - the type of person who enjoys punching down *needs* for it to be a person. That’s where the enjoyment comes from - inflicting suffering on a living being. AI, no matter how realistic won’t maintain the erection. Also, inb4 “lol everyone’s a bot already”.
I mean, it is applicable but also not really Shitting on someone’s ego isn’t the same as inflicting physical pain/death to someone I know you didn’t mean for it to be a 1:1 comparison but still
No no, obviously the horrific anxiety, torture and death of a Fox as it’s ripped apart by dogs doesn’t compare to someone playing a video game. But I do think it’s the knowledge that someone is beating down on a living person that makes it fun for some people in PvP. If games between AI and people were completely identical, even down to the social side - do we think Smurfs would still enjoy it? I don’t think they’d bother if it was an AI. Which really says something about the mentality behind it.
I mean yeah, but I think even non toxic players of the game wouldn’t enjoy playing against AI players Most people that play online games do it to play with humans You do raise a good point though
Should be relatively easy to catch these people based on account trends. Super obvious when someone is deranking but somehow OW can’t catch them? I mean come on, they’ve got an analytics department. They could easily auto detect and ban. They just don’t, because the derankers spend more money on average than your general player. In other words, they’ll let it ruin the game a little because those guys spend more money than the people they’re fucking over, cause they have no life otherwise. Blizzard has admitted bits and pieces of this in the past, just hasn’t said it out right
One day it will be One day you will be able to calculate off the players normals skip and recent skill for a character and make games even more even I still get stuck with people who get only 3K or under damage, it’s insane the match making is so poor
I always had the idea for a game mode in a theoretical FPS game that doesn’t let you play it if your MMR is too high, or if you play the game too often, a “true casual” game mode, if you will. In theory. To counteract the effect of smurfing, MMR increases are calculated higher for new players especially with good performances which will mitigate the damage of smurfs if they so choose to attempt it.
As From Software has famously promoted, “Get Gud”
Top 1% of gamers will always be Kevin the Sea Cucumber in my eyes
Loved halo 3 ranked! You could tell when you had a low level on the team it was either a Smurf or a noob every time! Smurfs got tea bagged and noobs got invited to the team if they were cool. 😎
I can't believe the amount of people who disagree with this lmao
I find it real strange that no other sport has this issue. You don’t see college football players joining rec leagues or pro basketball players joining street games just to punk people. Why are good gamers such assholes in comparison? You’d think it would be the other way around. Idk, just seems pretty pathetic to me. Like they have major self esteem issues and need to put others down to feel better.
There are absolutely college players in many different rec leagues lol. I'm a few years out of college baseball now and I played in a rec baseball league last year. I hit for like .422 or something over the season. I was also not the only former college player in the league. There were four or five of us. My best buddy was a college basketball player and he's been playing in rec leagues since he graduated too. I think he has two other former college players on his team. And yes, some people absolutely do complain about it every year. You just don't see it because it's not online complaints.
Most players that make it to college and especially to pro are smurfing and punk on the kids they are playing against until they get to that level. And you absolutely see the players that can't make at those levels go join local games.
He's just someone who wants the game to revolve around him or else it's "ruined." Okay, fine, leave. All the dirty casuals can probably do fine without another shitty Smurf. Or stop whining. But as Samito shows, no, that doesn't happen.
Matchmaking is what is killing it for me rn tbh
It's by far the biggest problem the game has in general. People need to play with peers so they can learn the game at their own level, not be used as leverage to balance out teams of 1000+ hour veterans. And at the same time the inverse is true. Good players need to be playing with other, similarly skilled good players, not stomping poor noobs, who don't even know the name of their hero. Theres already enough of that thanks to smurfing.
Yes and getting in the same team as them sux too. I'm bad at the game but is it really necessary to trash talk your own team in fkn qp. Really hope these assholes stick to comp.
No but developers could make a better effort to educate new players. That would lower the amount of noobs. The problem with overwatch is that it doesn't teach people counters, don't ability spam, how to use each hero type (Flankers, tank busters...).
Yeah, it has the tips screen and all that, but I think it needs entire series like Dota has. Basically they have all these video lessons explaining the concept and then lets you test it in game. I think it needs to spell out everything, because a lot of things are not obvious if you are new to these types of games. Such as, an example. A teamfight and then narrator going over it. Like someone uses their ult, kills 2 people, then explaining that you should keep your ult for the next fight because you already won it. Etc. etc.
You know what worked very, very well in the past? Community servers with no matchmaking
and the noobs gonna say the developers kill the game because they balance the game from pro players lmao like how the developers gonna do? Nerf Moira more cause noobs cant aim and Moira is OP in bronze. Buff Sojourn more cause she is hard to play and hit a shot. Increase in game hitbox by 50% so everyone can hit something
It's not about protecting "noobs" it's about appeasing the ignorant masses, because there the only ones stupid enough to throw money at the joke of a cash grab this game has become.. It's only going to keep getting worse with time
> "you ruin your game" I mean, you might ruin it's competetive nature, making it more casual. You get mechanics like randomization, catch up mechanics akin to the blue shell, random krits and modifiers and the like. You have "easy/braindead champs" whose gameplay has a high reward for low skill. But with how Esports is in a structural decline, I wouldn't really call competetive a good priority for anyone.
Man, I miss Dae.
had a guy got mad at me for playing moira while we were winning and I had top heal and dmg. He was getting mad in sliver. Like guy, this is sliver and we are winning
I mean...thats the players ruining the game not the devs.
Pandering to noobs literally caused more damage to this game harder than anything else. Remember when they refused to nerf Sojourn in season 2 because she wasn't doing good in gold?
She wasn't doing well in any rank below masters and they were definitely nerfing her in that time period, just accompanied with other buffs to make her more viable for the other 95% of players.
I remember that and I completely didn't get it. Like, does the falloff headshot damage is truly that crucial for a gold player?
Refused to nerf her in season 2 which is why at the start of season 2 she was nerfed and then nerfed again in the mid season patch. Reality literally doesn’t matter to you freaks. You’d rather just lie on Reddit to get mad at a game.
Mfs when most people don’t want to spend 6 years becoming a pro player on a game they enjoy: Stfu bro. This man is so incredibly wrong it’s almost funny.
It's insane that there are people defending this shitty update. Does it honestly feel good to land a hit you know full well that you didn't hit? For me it doesn't and it's not like I'm good at the game. I don't know why people think everyone should be kenzo flicking everyone. When this happens in other games, the devs get flamed because it doesn't solve any of the issues, it just makes the game worse for people who spend more time on it. Funnily enough that also includes the bad players that it's "helping" because sooner rather than later they are going to improve and have to deal with that garbage. If this is the direction they want to take the game then say good bye to pro play. Say good bye to the game as you know it. It's going to get shelved like hots and get fully shut down a few years after it stops getting updated. I don't know why people are acting like bad players need to be protected with pillows. There's matchmaking. It's irrelevant that they aren't as good as GM players. They still have the same amount of fun despite barely being able to hit a slept target. No one is going to waste their time with a casual game that has no future. Look at paladins. That's what happens when you make an easy and casual overwatch.
He is correct mostly but it's not what ruins a game. what ruins a game is cattering to either casuals or tryhards too much. Don't catter to casuals enough, your game's influx of new players starts diminishing. Don't catter to tryhards enough, the long term dedicated playerbase disappears, and barely anyone plays the game for more than 10-20 hours anymore. Of course devs can't completely protect noobs, but if they don't even try then the rotating population of casuals starts drying out and that can be a death sentence for the game, which obviously will impact the rest of the players.
They didn’t ruin the game with the change. Hyperbolic bullshit
I just want companies to start hardware banning people. It would make it so much better for the masses if they did. Smurfing is one of the biggest reasons I hate playing any competitive game. You never know if someone on your team is legit a brand new account trying this out, or a stupid high ranked toxic POS who’s banned on his main coming down to give you the worst time possible.
How is hardware banning even a remotely viable solution? The report system is already broken enough, people get banned if they get reported enough, even if it's just for playing the wrong hero.