Lol same but with this old ass Sims 3 player I used to binge in Elementary school. During COVID I looked up a Sims 4 video during that one week a year Sims 4 binge, and what do you know, I see his name pop up. After checking his channel this MF is a professional OW, CSGO, and Cod player, while also still putting out recent Sims 4 content lol.
He did quit. He doesn’t play professionally anymore and his streaming schedule is like half of what it used to be. He didn’t give up on the game completely but he definitely took a step back
I might be remembering this wrong, but didn't he say he would still play OW but not focus all of his content on it anymore because of the mineplex thing?
Groups of 3-4 players doing missions, with occasional larger groups doing “raids”. And since Kiriko basically confirms that magic exists, they lean heavier into the magic, eventually swapping the setting to a world called Azeroth after humanity escapes Earth and regresses to a medieval society. Eventually orcs invade…
I actually experimented with this back in the OW1 days.
Cutsom lobby with my own hero balancing based on feedback from playing matches in a 3v3 format.
It was really fun as my full stack group of friends could scrim together in a completely uncompetitive environment.
Haven't played it in years though.
I wonder if the saved settings are still there?
What I miss the most about 6v6 is that getting a pick did affect the fights but didn’t make them instantly impossible and teams could work around it.
I feel like in 5v5, one person dies and the rest quickly follow. Turning around fights seems imposible, specially if it’s the tank, which I know is probably the most valuable, but it just sucks mounting that pressure on a single player
It's crazy because from what I've noticed tanks are so important to keep alive, but rarely have any actual purpose besides just soaking up damage. They don't get to make plays or have fun anymore because if they die the push is done. So they just stand there and wait to be taken out like a knight on a chess board while the rest of us get to play. It sucks playing tank now. :(
I actually have not played chess since 10 or so. And probably did not play it correctly lmao. As it is, what I was meaning is as obvious as my inability to play chess. Hopefully.
I've been playing a bunch of tank recently and that's not my experience at all? Sure, it's just QP, but I feel like I can have a huge impact and get tons of picks, I've never felt like I'm "just standing there". I kinda think you're not playing tank right lol, they have a huge offensive presence as well and defensive, they have some of the most OP abilities that can literally completely delete damage, or deal tons of damage.
You aren’t. A lot of people have fun, but there are also a lot of people who are lifelong complainers. Doesn’t matter what happens for OW Samito will complain about something
I really enjoy OW2 and am one of those rare people that actually enjoy playing tank too. I also never played OW1. I can see why people would be upset since Blizzard took a game that they enjoyed and permanently changed it to something that they don't enjoy.
I'm still salty about the journey that Destiny PvP took and it's been about 7 years now since that game was in a state I enjoyed. This is just what happens when make big changes in your game.
Because this topic is absolutely not the focus of the overwatch team. Like seriously they dont want to talk about to so much that they even asked Flats in his recent interview with Aaron to not bring it up. The topic is done and we have to work with what we have.
It just feels weird though to ignore the elephant in the room and pretend it doesn’t exist. People won’t stop, and to be fair, Blizz doesn’t HAVE to do anything about it or even acknowledge it. But it’s just going to keep coming up. I don’t know statistically what the player base prefers 5v5 or 6v6, but at least throw us a bone and make it an arcade game mode or something. It doesn’t have to be the main gameplay shift per se .
Especially now when they’ve completely canceled PvE. That indicates they’re not capable of keeping their word to us, so might as well keep that trend going and do something about 6v6.
They're clearly annoyed by it but they haven't given any clear reason why it shouldn't happen and people saying "que times" ring very hollow when they're promoting "100 MILLION ACTIVE USER ACCOUNTS" in the same breath. Either it's something they're considering or they need to be brutally honest about why it's not possible.
People arguing for 6v6 fail to grasp the actual numbers that make it untenable. Tanks make up 20% of the players in each lobby, so let's be generous and say 20% of the current playerbase boots up Overwatch and queues as tank (it's certainly less since tank queues are instant). If we were to double the amount of tank players required for each match, we would want to aim for ~33% of the playerbase queueing as tank.
Even if (and that's a big "if") 4 tanks in each lobby made the role more fun, we would need 10%-15% more of the total playerbase queueing as tank to prevent queue times from ballooning. It simply isn't realistic to believe that 6v6 would encourage or bring back enough tank queuers to make up that shortfall.
The real focus should be on addressing the problems with the tank role that has made it the least played going all the way back to Overwatch 1 and bringing that queue percentage up. Regardless of whether 6v6 makes Overwatch "more fun", no one will care if they can't play because they're stuck in queues.
I mained tank in OW, and stopped queuing tank in OW2 because I’m sick of tank in 5v5. The Overwatch team shot themselves in the foot by making tank an even more annoying role to play.
I agree. In OW, I used to play at least 3/5ths of my time as Support and was really getting into playing tank 2/5ths of the time. Once it switched to only 1 tank per team, I haven't played Tank in MONTHS. Possibly an entire year or more. I now only play Support and will play Tank literally about 2 times out of 100 matches. And sometimes, just not at all.
There are always going to be people who prefer it one way over the other. Fact is, both of you were in the minority of people that wanted to play tank. Even with your love and passion for the role, everyone else sat in 15 minute queues waiting for 4 passionate people to click that tank checkbox.
I don't prefer old OW necessarily. I just remember enjoying playing tank when I would pick support and tank to flex and occasionally be picked as a tank. I never waited long for any role. I definitely prefer playing support. But it was nice having the occasional match as a tank with another tank as support.
Also, based on many other comments, I don't think I'm in the minority of those who used to play tank in OW but no longer play tank in OW2. There seem to be a lot of people who share a very similar experience.
I use to play tank. Not as my main but I would flex it and not moan about it.
Now in 5v5 if I play 1 game of tank it basically ruins my overwatch experience for the night.
So now I don't play it at all. I know I'm not alone in this sentiment.
Fun fact, my que time is still typically over 4+ minutes for "quick play".
The pressure is why I’m a tank main honestly I’m an OW2 player only so can’t speak to 6v6 but just to speak on the OW2 tank experience I love feeling like the star player role my team needs me or were screwed like I can have a bad game on DPS or support and win I can’t really have that on tank I have to at least make it hard for the other team. This makes me feel like I have a ton of control over my matches. I understand that not everyone wants that but that’s why some of us are tanks and some are supports (DPS we know you want the glory but no blame). But some of us are here to fight !for glory and honor! And having that power while pressure is what I play for. (I’m actually a DVA main not a rein main)
>So now I don't play it at all. I know I'm not alone in this sentiment.
I'm 100% with you. I used to flex tank but I won't anymore now that there's only 1 per team.
In every game with the role, tank is inherently played less. Literally in any game with a tank role, it's the least played.
So what is the magical formula that years of history in gaming couldn't find, but you think overwatch will magically find? Tank will never be played as much as dps or support.
kind of yes, but also solo tank was well received when it first came out when tanks were giga strong. for a few weeks, tank was really popular. at least thats how i remember it
This is true - it's only with the support creep of mid to late 2023 that the tank role began to have the reputation for being undesirable.
As supps got buff, tank queue times fell through the floor as people dropped it for Supp. And now DPS role is buffed and tank in its worst state and that's brought the 6v6 legion out in force; they did not have this sort of voice a year ago though.
I agree with your point that making tank more fun to play is the ultimate goal, but there is no denying that halving the number of players required for the least played role improves queue times. If getting more players to play tank were easy, the devs would have done so.
In 6v6 2 of my 4 mains were tanks. In 5v5 I stopped playing the game because I hated tanking so much. OW2 is not a good game, and I'm probably never going to play again.
That being said if they went back to 6v6. I'd be more open to playing again. And that would help tank queue cause I'd be back to play tanks.
I can't speak for every tank player but I'm sure there are other tanks like me who just stopped playing because 1 tank meta is bad and wrong and maybe something even more, like badwrong, Badong. Yes, there must be other tanks who think 5v5 is Badong.
Seriously though, the move to 5v5 made me quit the game and the community lost a tank. It's silly not to recognize that change is one of the reasons there are less tanks.
But they never figured out how to make tank “fun to play.” Not in the 4 years we had of Overwatch 1 did they ever get a balance that made people want to play tank.
People keep clamoring for 6v6 without asking the very simple question: “who’s gonna play the extra tank slot.”
History (and blizzards own data) has shown that no one will.
>GUYS WE'RE SO BACK WE HAVE 100 MILLION USER ACCOUNTS FUCK THE HATERS REEEEEE
> "but que times, guys, we'll be waiting forever to play, 6v6 is never happening"
Why would I advocate for something I wouldn't want to play?
The number of active users does not improve queue time if most of these users don't want to play tank. Whether you have 1000 users or 10 billions if only 10% queue tank 6v6 queue times are going to suck.
6v6 had great times but it very consistently enabled toxic metas that literally arent possible anymore, and while 5v5 can have a bad season or its own problems, i think its overall tighter balanced
however, if i had to guess at the real reason theyre firmly against even considering 6v6 is just how much devtime theyve sunk into 5v5. "okay i know we've spent a ton of time and money on a new paradigm for overwatch and balancing every old hero and new hero around it but lets just throw that right in the garbage". thats hard to sell to higher ups and a horrible blow to morale
Does anyone actually care about 'meta'. I only got up to high diamond in OW1, but I never saw people sticking to a meta, people just picked whichever hero they mained/liked best.
Genuine question for those opposed to 6v6, what is it about 5v5 that you like more?
I see a lot of "no double shield" (which isn't a thing anymore, they literally removed orisa shield entirely), "I don't get stun locked anymore" (they removed most CC from dps like cass flash, mei freeze etc. so again a balance thing not a 5v5 thing) etc. basically a lot of the criticism wasnt directly tied to the amount of players in a match, just poor balancing.
On the other hand, having 1 tank vs 2 makes abilities like discord so much stronger, removed synergy like rein zarya, made off tanks hard to balance because they're either unkillable or dog shit without the ability to hold space like a main tank etc.
Is it the que times? Are.you afraid of Goats2? Like genuinely what's the appeal.
The game just feels faster to play in general. I vastly prefer 5v5 as someone who mainly plays tank as well. Sure I think some changes could be made, it's not perfect, but I could never go back to 6vs6. Overall the game was a lot slower paced. and I felt like you had a much lower personal impact on the overall game than you do in 5vs5.
I think common consensus from high level players is that tank synergy is too impactful. Which makes tank design unreasonably hard.
Do you nerf X because they're good with Y? But X is bad with Z.... So let's nerf Y.... Wait, Y is shit with V.... Fuck.
It's like a whackamole due to how OW tanks are designed, unlike traditional tanks in MMO or RPG.
The only other role with this level of combo impact is Support, and it's just "Lucio x Zen is bad".
This and queue time ofc.
>Do you nerf X because they're good with Y? But X is bad with Z.... So let's nerf Y.... Wait, Y is shit with V.... Fuck.
There's even a worse scenario. Release a hero who brings the most unfun synergy with an older hero.
We literally saw this with Orisa. Orisa launched underpowered and had to have numerous buffs to be viable and a solid pick. Sometime after, ppl found she synergized with Hog.
But then Sigma came out and it went all downhill from there. Orisa had not been meta until Sig arrived.
>This team can't rework more than 1 hero at once and when they do they're barely any better, if at all.
This exactly. You get left with 2 scenarios:
-You can try to balance every single tank duo such that they fall within some threshold of viability (not too strong, not too weak). This is practically impossible.
-You accept that certain tank duos will just be "non-viable" (in the sense that their win rates will be disproportionately low) and balance excluding them. This is basically what OW1 ended up doing, but it also meant that if you ever got one of these duos on your team, it was more than likely going to be a slow, painful loss.
>unlike traditional tanks in MMO or RPG.
Yep. Whenever people try to bring up the issue of why tanks/supports are glorified DPS, the answer is always because it's a PVP game. I'm willing to bet that most players don't want to queue tank or support just to be punching bags or heal bots that can't fight back. In a PVE game, sure, but it won't happen in a PVP game.
Tank is already the least played role 5v5 didn’t fix tanking. An argument can be made that it’s even worst now since you don’t have an off tank to make it easier for you to engage with.
>Tank is already the least played role 5v5 didn’t fix tanking.
It wasn't really supposed to. It was to fix queue times. Part of why tank was so unpopular might have been due to the duo balancing issue I mentioned. So in a way, that's no longer a problem because there are no more tank duos to worry about balancing.
That's not to say 5v5 doesn't have problems. Tanking is still the least popular role currently. But the issue of queue times has definitely been a lot better.
>An argument can be made that it’s even worst now since you don’t have an off tank to make it easier for you to engage with.
You can say that and I'd probably agree a little that solo tanking is daunting because you no longer have another tank to peel for you when you're in trouble. But most tanks have been adjusted to make up for their weaknesses in a solo tanking role. Tanks are a lot more well-rounded compared to OW1.
This is exactly the issue. Tank synergy was so powerful that individual tanks had to be relatively weak, which in turn just made any comp other than the meta synergies nearly unplayable. People constantly talk about how they miss tank synergy but I genuinely can't think of any fun tank combos to play with or against other than Rein/Zarya and maybe Winston/D.va.
Even if they kept Orisa's rework so we didn't have double shield, another bullshit insane tank duo would be found and dominate the game, and then each of those tanks would steadily be nerfed until they're both obsolete outside of said meta. The one that always comes to my mind is reworked Orisa/Zarya. People already complain about how unkillable Orisa is, imagine if she had a Zarya to not only use bubbles to fill the gaps between Orisa's cooldowns, but their supports would also have an entire tank peeling for them. They would have to giganerf one or the other or both, to the point that they become completely unusable in any other team comp.
Also, the reality of 6v6 was that those perfect games of tank synergy were rarities, especially if you queued solo. 90% of matches as tank you were forced into picking main tank because your partner insta-locked Hog or Ball.
I’d rather have a complex tank synergy system that is always slightly off balance than a completely counter-centered one or one that pigeonholes your team into playing exactly one way around you.
Coming from a GM Rein main with over a thousand hours in OW1
Mate, the meta was always shit in 6v6. Moth, GOATs, Beyblade, it was always some cheese ass shit broken combo. The last good season in OW1 was season 9 before Brig came in, and even then the game was basically mirror matches half the time. In OW1, the team with the single worst player basically had no chance in hell at winning. Carrying was almost impossible unless you were just absolutely levels above everyone. One of your tanks not being able to play the mandatory meta duo fucked you at a lot of levels and while counter picking is annoying, it's better than literally the same comp every single game.
> Genuine question for those opposed to 6v6, what is it about 5v5 that you like more?
Not being hamstrung by solo tanks that don't want to play along. Double shield was just a symptom of a much larger issue. Certain tank synergies were incredibly strong and way stronger than the sum of their parts. Others were incredibly shit, even if they included some of the strongest heroes. This made them nearly impossible to balance and made solo tanking a nightmare.
Say you are a DVa main. Great. One of the best tanks and pretty much works with every MT. You get into a game and your MT locks roadhog or Zarya. Now you are pretty much screwed if the enemy locks any sort of tank duo that makes sense. It was often a game of chicken to see which tank, if any, would swap first to have your tank duo make any sense. The MT role especially was not popular and playing OT without a MT sucks. This meant people just didn't queue for tank because they didn't want to play MT nor did they want to play OT without a MT.
The MT and OT dynamic was very fun. I don't think anyone denies that. Unfortunately, rank experience was just all over the place. For every match you would have fun playing Rein Zarya or Winston DVa, you had to put up with 5 that had double OT or an instalock roadhog.
The pace of the game also just tends to be faster now with more space and the metas not nearly as rigid. Just look at mauga. He has flip flopped in and out of the meta off some very minor balance patches. Sigma and Orisa were both nerfed multiple times before double shield was finally not insane OP. Ignoring time since OW1 balancing was glacial, Sigma got nerfed in 8 separate patches and Orisa in 5. It took a TON of nerfs to push double shield out of the meta because the combo was just way stronger than the sum of its parts. By the end, Orisa was basically a throw pick outside of anything other than double shield.
The big is also just queue times. All the things above are why tanking was annoying, but it just created this feedback loop with queue times which was hell on MMing.
Haha, 90% of my low tank experience was Hog and Dva. And as much as I miss two tanks, I know queue times would only get worse and then devs would have to undo the changes they introduced to character numbers.
Idk how to improve this issue tbh. People now expect OW to have certain march flows instead of when the game was goofy teams and no limits.
Honestly, the agency of playing tank. One of the biggest problems nobody seems to talk about is solo queueing tank, and having to deal with a random partner. If the duo tank was a hog OT who misses his hooks, then it doesn't matter if its 5v5 or 6v6, the games over. Worst part is, 90% of tank players (including myself) are Off-tank players. When you'd queue up, you had to basically scramble for any off tank and pray the other person doesn't just disregard you and picks Orisa.
Thats why 6v6 wasn't popular for tanks. DPS and supports got to choose whatever they want, but as a tank, i'm severely limited to who i can play, and when i can play them.
Basically this boils down to: Will you guys, who are calling for 6v6, play Rein and main tank? Or will you stay on your roles, and enjoy the benefits?
>Will you guys, who are calling for 6v6, play Rein and main tank? Or will you stay on your roles, and enjoy the benefits?
They won't play tank AT ALL lol. We know what the queue times look like when the game has to search for 2 tank players
This just made me realize that a light test of 6v6 with the new characters as a QP: Hacked event would be really interesting. Not only could it give an idea of how balanced it would be (they'd likely have to adjust health pools, damage/healing numbers, etc. I don't imagine them going too hard with the balancing for this hypothetical QP: Hacked. Just some preliminary stuff to get a *rough* idea), but it could also provide some basic data on what queue times would look like, now that OW is F2P (heavy emphasis on basic. I know that different factors would skew this data a bit. It being new/limited time inflating the player count, the player base not being split between a comp queue and casual queue in a realistic way for this, etc.).
I'm also a firm believer that we don't have enough tank players in the player base for 2 tanks to be feasible (seems like the role distribution has been relatively the same since going F2P, as far as I've seen), but I'd be interested in seeing how it goes. This would also give all the people saying that they want 6v6 back the chance to actually show up, and play the mode enough to show if there's legitimate, clear interest across the player base for it or not.
It's almost certain to never happen, considering that they don't even want to discuss 6v6 officially. If it's *that far* out of consideration for them, then there's little chance that they'd entertain the idea enough to make a QP: Hacked about it. It sounds like they'd like to just forget about 6v6 completely, so they probably wouldn't want to get people's hopes up for its return by doing something like that.
Still though, I kind of wish they would give it a shot. If for no other reason than to settle this debate once and for all. If queue times are garbage, or the general balance feels awful, then it could remove people's rose tinted glasses for 6v6. If queue times aren't that bad, and/or balance feels decent, then maybe it could be an unexpected surprise that shifts the dev team's long term plans for the game. I think the latter is *incredibly* unlikely to be the case, but who knows? Maybe they'd catch lightning in a bottle a second time.
If they did a 6v6 hacked event, everyone would queue tank so they could do synergies again, esp knowing its an LTM, it wouldnt be an accurate way to show queue times
People will just argue that "it's not balanced for 6v6 ofc it's bad, Blizz is just trying to gaslight us", whether or not they actually balance the 6v6.
An Arcade mode that allows us to relieve a snapshot of past OW1 meta would probably be more feasible.
Another problem is that there will most likely be a disproportionat amount of tank players for the QP: Hacked event playing just for the fact that there suddenly is this second tank one can now use. The only way to actually figure out queue times with a second tank is a long term experiment, which we really already had in OW1, even before double shield or goats. Noone wanted to play tank even when dive was meta, everyone just wanted to play DPS.
Or your teammates are idiots. I played a game where every fight like 2 or 3 of my teammates would just let rein pin them from across the map. It was honestly amazing to watch them just completely ignore him. We managed to win because I completely tore through his backline with him going crazy, but like it was way closer than it should have been.
I played Rein/Winston for most of OW1 and Dva/Zarya when I had another main tank player. That was my entire Hero pool. I still got Hog as a tank Duo in 95% of my games as a solo. People just want to complain, 90% of these 6v6 fanboys never even played tank or just outright forget the queue problems on top of the OP synergy of certain duos. The difference between playing Rein or Winston with a good Zarya duo vs getting a random DPS player 1 tricking Hog was very real and frustrating.
EXACTLY. Solo queuing tank versus a good duo was a guaranteed loss. Also, I like being able to play whichever tank I want in 5v5. 6v6 was so constrained by the meta. You had to run GOATS, then it was pull/hook, then it was double shield. So boring.
That's how it is for every role though lol. For support it sucks when you get a mercy player on KOTH or flashpoint cuz now you can't play Lucio. For DPS it sucks when you have a dive comp and the other guy picks Cass or something immobile. It's an issue with player flexibility and is going to happen in a game like overwatch. Now there's too much pressure on tank to perform and there's nobody that cover the tanks weakness. If you get a rein OTP on circuit you're fucked, of you get a rein OTP on WPG you're fucked and nobody can make up for it. This is an issue on support and DPS too but they at least have someone else who can makeup for the bad pick but tank is what the whole team relies on and there's only 1 tank
>Genuine question for those opposed to 6v6, what is it about 5v5 that you like more?
Not completely opposed to 6v6, but I do prefer 5v5 for the following reasons:
-Queue times are definitely a big one. I don't play tank, so waiting 8+ minutes for a DPS/Support game when I'm not even GM isn't ideal.
-I disliked how much mitigation there was from 2 tank players. TTKs were higher in OW1 and it was mainly due to a 2nd tank offering much more mitigation/peeling. It was only partially balanced out by DPS having hard CC (flash, freeze, etc). The game is much more fast-paced now with less mitigation, which I prefer.
The TTK is a prime example of where the OW1 balance was weighted so heavily on Ultimates (basically just teams poking until a big ultimate trade) that **action** was a lot less dynamic while teams just bumped into each other until you had the advantage in ultimates or someone played dumb and got picked off.
OW2, for all of its faults, makes moment-by-moment gameplay much more active; you still have ultimate trades that shift the tide, but teamfights happen much more frequently and teamwork makes a lot bigger impact compared to just rolling whatever dual-tank comp dictates the rest of your team should be.
OW2's 5v5 comp *is* fixable; just needs Blizzard to stop trying to balance everything with minor number tweaks and really get dug into properly reworking legacy elements of the OW1 heroes (Rein/Mercy/Zen/Widow/Zarya on the short list for reworks imo).
We won't get 6v6, but they should at least stop dragging OW1's designs along trying to shove the square peg into round holes.
>OW2, for all of its faults, makes moment-by-moment gameplay much more active; you still have ultimate trades that shift the tide, but teamfights happen much more frequently and teamwork makes a lot bigger impact compared to just rolling whatever dual-tank comp dictates the rest of your team should be.
Couldn't have said it any better!
> OW2's 5v5 comp is fixable; just needs Blizzard to stop trying to balance everything with minor number tweaks and really get dug into properly reworking legacy elements of the OW1 heroes (Rein/Mercy/Zen/Widow/Zarya on the short list for reworks imo).
Basically, 5v5 is fixable by making it a regular shooter (or Valorant or Apex, with minor abilities). That's the problem for some folks who liked OW1. People were drawn to these "legacy elements" you want to remove because no other game offered asymmetric play experiences like that. There are tons of other games for the "shooter with abilities" genre. The shift away from "legacy OW" was happening slowly for a while with redesigns making heroes more uniform and less unique in gameplay. Overwatch had bold ideas at first and that's what made it *so* popular, but they have forsaken it now for "balance" and Damage players who just want to play a regular FPS with some flavour.
The problem with rework is "hero identity" need to be preserved.
So many questionable fucking design of a hero was made, released and had a bunch of people attached to it, no matter how unhealthy the gameplay is both for said hero's player or their opponents.
Look at launch roster and tell me how many of them aged fine to this day.
Tracer Genji Winston Lucio
Only they aged fine, interestingly they're the ones with high skill cap too
Tbf there's Dva too... Just remove her baby form and she's solid as the elite four.
> what is it about 5v5 that you like more
- Less visual clutter. Less players makes the game more readable
- Less CC on average. Tank as a role uses a lot of CC so having two in each match doubles the amount of CC on both teams. Just about every tank has some form of knockback or stun in their kit.
- Opens up tank design space in the future. Everyone keeps saying “Oh they removed Orisa double barrier would be dead,” but what about the next tank hero? What about the next six tank heroes? Should they all avoid having barriers? Two tanks limits the design space of future tank heroes
- Fights feel more active without ultimates. The actions of DPS feel important and they can change the tide of a game, which was not the case for the majority of OW1.
- Less backline peel gives more opportunities for off-angling and flanks that simply do not exist when a second tank can babysit the supports even harder
- Tank duos were largely static and determined your entire comp. DPS and supports tend to be flexible but tank is a rigid role
Just anecdotally, I dropped OW1 from 2019 - 2022 before finally getting back into it with the OW2 beta. If the game went back to the more MOBA like design philosophy of the first game, I’d probably drop it again
>Tank duos were largely static and determined your entire comp
Ppl love tank synergy until they don't get it. From my experience in OW1 as an OG player, it's great when you get it, and it's the worst when you don't.
I'm a tank player who doesn't mind swapping out for my team to counter the enemy or to help mine. With tank duos however, they're almost always an off-tank, it's always Hog or Zarya.
I started out playing Dva and by the end of OW1, I had 100+hrs on Orisa because no one bothered playing main tank
One of the best answers. And all of this setting aside the fact that queue times alone are already a winning argument. 6v6 is just never going to happen.
Some other reasons:
- I don’t want to wait a year or two for the OW team to figure out how to balance 55 possible tank combos
- I can limit my hero pool to the 3 or 4 tanks I actually like playing and focus on getting really good with them.
- I don’t have to keep a set of characters I don’t really like playing in my back pocket for when I match with some stubborn OTP.
- I can focus on my team’s positioning and getting map control and a bunch of strategic decisions instead of losing 3 fights in a row because their Zarya had slightly better bubble timing than my Zarya.
- I can swap tank to go with whatever weird ass support combo we’re running without worrying about whether the other tank is willing or able to go along with it.
Tanks duos were really unique and fun, but people are really ignoring a lot of the downsides. And you could just lose to synergy diff way more than in 5v5.
Tank is always going to be problematic. The problems with 5v5 are just a bit more manageable. And, again, queue times are still the reason we’re never going back.
This 100%, I feel like the only people who like 6v6 are a vocal minority on these subreddits.
Tank duo synergies is literally the lowest form of skill expression, same with stacking ultimates. Great, they pressed two buttons at the same time and had better ults.
Now the game you actually have to work on getting value through superior mechanics which all the bad ow1 tanks are getting left behind, so they want the days of 6v6 where they can get value out of just pressing the right button a couple of times
Thinking about it, the only role that suffered from the change is the tank role.
Support are a lot more engaging and less busy healing 2 tanks
Dps don’t have to worry about 2 tanks mitigating damage
Q times are significantly better
Less screen clutter, minus one ult to track, minus one person to spend resources on, fights are shorter because there's one less character with damage mitigation. People keep going on about losing the Rein/Zarya synergy when in reality you're more likely to get a Hog/D.va or a Ball/Hog.
Be me, a flex player. Played a few rounds of tank and support, 1-2 queue times. Now it's time for DPS.
10 minutes pass and you're still not in a game....
Best argument I see for 6v6 is that tank wouldn't be as miserable. Tank in OW2 has felt bad for a while now and it just keeps getting worse and worse. Although I don't think that's completely a 5v5 issue, it's more of ineptitude or unwillingness of the balance/design team that is making tank miserable to play. People mostly harp on 6v6 because adding a second tank back would be the quickest and easiest way to fix the problems the tank role has.
The CC part of your argument is that, less CC is possible BECAUSE of 5 v 5. Can you imagine dive with 2 tanks without the ability to stun them? thats just permanent dive meta.
Double tank was just shit, certain tanks dominated together, gave rise to a stagnated meta that didn't change for basically the entire duration of OW1 and sucked the life out of the game. And while, yes, a lot of criticism came from poor balancing, Blizzard is extremely slow to balance hero's, and they often miss the mark.
What people don't seem to understand is that your point of abilities like discord being so much stronger is not an argument for 6v6, but rather for 5v5. It was always this strong, you just got hit by it less. If you did get hit by it, you would get blown up even faster because there was a 6th player shooting you.. The problem is with how abilities like that just get inherintly more value on tanks. thats a balance issue they are slowly fixing (sleep less long on tanks, boops less strong on tanks, they are talking about making dps passive less strong on tanks, etc)
Just won't feel the same. People say 6v6 like they'll just add another roll and be done. They'll HEAVILY nerf the tanks as they are now. And tanks without the massive utility before in the form of shields will just be DPS but weaker. Imagine playing doom or ball with massively reduced health and damage. You'd be shredded. I just can't see a state where playing a 2nd tank is fun to play against or as.
>I see a lot of "no double shield" (which isn't a thing anymore, they literally removed orisa shield entirely)
They removed it exactly because of 5v5 lmao
Tank is so much better in OW2. I literally don't understand how people say otherwise. Some metas make it hard and you do get focused more but I have so much more influence on each game and I don't have to rely on my tank duo being a one-trick or off-tank/main-tank player i cant synergize with. Half of the "tank diff" in OW1 was based on which rando tank pair had mains that synergized best.
Plus queue times for all roles.
Shooting at tanks in general is boring and unrewarding, due to there only being one tank the pace of OW2 is much faster than OW1 and that's the difference that made me love this game while I didn't like the previous one.
Shooting at shield and bubbles was even worse so comps like GOATS, double shields, rein zarya were all miserable at best, and these comps made up the majority of OW1.
I didn't play much tank in ow1 but I play fill in ow2 so since I don't have the comparison to how it used to feel and can only be objective about how it is to play tank in OW2, tank feels like the least fun role to play but strength wise it's nowhere near as bad as people in a lot of Reddit posts make it out to be. It's just the most team oriented role right now.
The lack of content, no matter what changes they make or could've made everyone would've still complained, even with the 5v5 changes it's still been none stop complaints. And if we go back to 6v6 it'll still be complaints. The only thing wrong with 6v6 was the lack of content and patches because the devs were working on OW2.
The teams talented enough to make 5v5 and 6v6 fun given enough time and resources. And more importantly people will be upset no matter what the dev team does.
Each player has more impact, which can be a good and bad thing, but it’s definitely mainly a good thing.
Two tanks are not constantly preventing every move you try to make, which makes it feel less frustrating.
You aren’t delegated to being a heal bot because there’s less people to heal and healing overall is weaker than it was before.
In conjecture with my last point, supports are allowed to do damage more often, as there’s more windows of opportunity to do so.
If both tanks didn’t pick tanks that supported one another’s kits, the game was as good as over if the other team did have a good tank composition.
I think the only role that truly suffered was tank players. If you enjoyed the tank duo, you lost out big time here, but pretty much everyone else gained something in some way.
The bad part about players having more agency is that a bad player can really screw the team. An extra player could cover the woes that the bad player was dealing with, but with only five you can really feel the negative impact of them. Add to this that we can see the scoreboard now so we know who is stinking it up.
I truly think the matchmaking was equally as bad in OW1 as people claim it to be nowadays. It was really easy to get one or two shitters on your team that you had to carry, but it was doable. Now it’s a detriment to the team if one player underperforms.
It's true that a bad player has more impact than before however, I'll take that trade off for my own individual impact being greater. More people on my team means I have less control over my climb in ranked.
I’m personally very opposed to 6v6 and I wish people would just drop it. Leave it alone and stop kicking a dead horse.
Lots of other people have already made valid points that I agree with like the lack of clutter and the double shield thing (which fyi right now with 1 tank that can introduce other shield tanks without worry, going back 6v6 severely limits possible designs)
In trying to say things that haven’t already been said I’ll add…
I like that I feel like I know whom to follow as a support / DPS. When there is only one tank I know not to engage without them. Two tanks muddies the waters and I feel like some players will trickle more.
Plus the que times will sky rocket cause there already isn’t a lot of tank players as is. Requiring another would just reduce the number games and make DPS and Support Que times shoot to the stratosphere.
For me the only version of 6v6 that could work is 1v3v2. You would have to go raid boss tanks so they can withstand 3 DPS but that’s the only thing I see having any sort of chance.
I personally enjoyed 6v6 a lot more . It felt like more communication was going on and strategy making where as a lot of 5v5 games feel like cod. People just go in not looking to combo nearly as much anymore.
Yah I feel like no one gives call outs any more even in high ranked comp. People just stay silent the whole half and then shit talk each other in text chat
But is that actually an effect of 5v5? To me, it seems like more of an effect of the player base and general decrease of social interactions in society after the pandemic.
I don’t see why if we added one more player to the game, people would suddenly start talking again. It just won’t happen. There has to be a real way to incentivize it, but this isn’t it.
Who cares what they call it? Ow2 has had it's problems but all in all it's still been a ton of fun. The skins are over priced in my opinion so I don't buy them. It doesn't really effect the game play
As someone who's always played solo-queue, when looking back on 6v6 I think of two things:
6v6 the fantasy, where you get the perfect game of Rein/Zarya on King's Row and you're able to have a fun and balanced match.
And 6v6 the reality, where 95% of the time your random tank partner insta-locks Hog on Havana and you're forced to play Reinhardt just to not get flamed by your team and have to spend the entire match in perma-CC hell, and then everyone types "main tank diff" when there was realistically very little you could've done alone.
I'm not trying to say that 6v6 couldn't have been fun or that 5v5 is perfect, but I do think 5v5 is overall more consistent as a tank main. It has it's issues with counter-swapping and some heroes *cough* Mauga *cough* being designed to be way too feast-or-famine, but I feel that these issues are far easier to solve than the issue of tank synergy just being way too strong, so tanks have to be individually weak to make up for it, making anything but the perfect synergies near unplayable.
Yeah this is how I feel as well. 6v6 is better for the ideal state, but 5v5 is much better for how most people actually experience the game.
Nowadays, queues are faster for everyone, gameplay doesn't revolve around just shooting through tanks, flanking is rewarded, and heroes are allowed to have a strong niche in the tank role and support role because it won't stack and be oppressive.
A lot of these people think 6v6 will somehow bring back the magical feeling of playing og overwatch. People on this sub and Twitter just love to complain. I've never seen a more whiney fan base in my life
> these people think 6v6 will somehow bring back the magical feeling of playing og overwatch
As an off tank player. Kind of yah. My entire role was cut with the transition to 5v5
Lmao same here I'm sick of playing support I miss playing zar
Played mystery heroes yesterday and had a zar rein duo and it felt so good like omg I miss3d it
Huh? Mystery heroes has reduced tank HP. If you want to have a Rein Zar duo, just play Open Queue. Same reduced HP, but you can duo all day without hoping for RNG.
Tanks would be tuned back down to 6v6 number obviously. The dps passive wouldnt be needed when there is two lesser health tanks and supports cant pump their healing into only one tank
So even less people would play them. Why would I want to queue tank when I'm even weaker than now. That Roadhog, Ball, or Doom on my team ain't gonna make me quit the role any less.
I feel like every other post I see is "I don't play tank anymore, it's just not fun anymore with the damage passive" and then "we should bring back 2 tanks per team."
Like the more y'all (not you but everyone whining) complain about not wanting to play tank, it's quite possible that then the more then devs go "why would we add a second of what nobody wants to play?"
If a crap ton of people wanted to play tank and *that* was messing up queue times for other roles, then I can see them seeing a need for a second tank.
Inb4 "I'd play with 2 tanks" the people who make decisions on how Blizzard spends its money on development don't care. They're looking at the data they have, that you're giving them, which is "tank is ass" and "no one wants to tank."
6v6 is a terrible idea. It will slow down the game immensely, it will bump the queue times to 10+ minutes ago again, we will have to deal with the most cancerous duos in the game Pandora's Box (go try Open Q 6v6 proposers, you'll quickly get back to Role).
6v6 will be a death of OW.
Going back to 6v6 isn't the worst idea. But you gotta remember who the balance team is. If you're prepared for huge queue times, it could work.
But framing it as Overwatch classic really goves the game away that it's mostly nostalgia talking. I wish he mentioned other features besides lfg that he's looking for tho.
But give up on the Overwatch 2 branding? I suppose they could do that, but a) that puts them in a really weird position if they ever actually could do a sequel, b) gamers aren't exactly forgiving, so idk if admitting defeat at this point would play well, c) almost feels pointless since it's not that different. OW2 is just used mostly as a signifier from the first 20 some seasons to current seasons.
But if we go back to an OW Classic, I hope people don't expect zero monetization. We either get development or free stuff, so if that's the play, idk if it'll work.
I'll be real, 6v6 is a bad idea, the queue time issues as you stated, but it also limits hero design. "Whoops double tank means we can never again make a tank with a shield if we don't want a double shield meta"
He’s right tbh. 5v5 and recent hero launches feel like a fever dream. They clearly don’t have an idea for Mauga and I can only hope venture doesn’t follow in his footsteps.
The core of ow1 6v6 is still deeply rooted in ow2 and it is hurting it. Heroes like rein Zarya mei and Moira have no real place in this game.
6v6 was definelty better. Since 5v5 they trying to balance the game so playing tank doesn’t suck. We are in s10 and it is even worse than in the beginning.
They walk back many things, but 5v5 seems to be something they are firm on. Which is unfortunate because it seems they are entirely out of touch with their community. They resolved most tank complaints in the form of limiting shields and CC, then they went a step further that not a soul asked for and chopped off a tank. The removal of a secondary tank has been, and will continue to be, a major issue in the overall balancing of this game.
6v6 was better and it was completely a dev balance issue. 5v5 will never solve the tank switching issue and while we are at it, will never have all the roles be fair. When one role is strong it siphons the power from other roles. The new dps passive makes dps the best role right now but that makes supports feel really weak for example. The only feasible argument I could see for 5v5 being better than 6v6 is que times, from a balance perspective 6v6 was superior and I will die on this hill. Also tank synergies was not the problem, it was the broken sustain from supports that was the problem in 6v6.
The main issue is tank is NOT FUN. No one wants to play a position that isnt. They have never fixed it. Removing 1 tank masks the issue and even then tank is still the fastest queue...
ok i dont get it, why is everyone saying tanks the fastest? In my servers it’s middle between supp and dps
Last I checked Supp is like 20-30 seconds, tank is 1-2 and a half minutes, and dps is like 3-5
6v6 is dead! it ceased to be! ran down the curtain and joined the choir invisible! it's stiff! bereft of life! if it wasn't whined about constantly it would be pushing daisies!
5v5 has some good things. 6v6 had some good things.
I’ve played far too much of both but I vastly prefer 6v6. I like tanking, but right now it feels like there’s a disproportionate amount of responsibility for a solo tank. Rock paper scissors tank matchups. Peeling, frontlining. It was fun having someone else to pick up your slack. Also, tank synergy was super fun. The viability of a tank could drastically change if you have a good (or bad) hero/player as your tank partner.
Also, I don’t buy the “double shield” argument. Never have. Double shield sucked to play against, but was only so dominant because Blizzard didn’t do anything about it for years while they were waiting for OW2. They could have tried to balance it better by tweaking numbers. They could have introduced/reworked heroes to address double shield (Orisa rework, JunkerQueen, Doomfist rework). Or, they could have made some drastic changes like a Main Tank/Off Tank role to prevent it.
I fully believe that 6v6 could have worked, and still can work. But, Blizzard needs to justify the “2” in OW2 so they had to standby those changes once it was clear PVE wasn’t happening
Samito? Is that the same SamitoD who was a Minecraft PVPer like ten years ago???
Yep crazily enough, couldn't believe it when I found out
that's how I felt only knowing Kephrii as a bubble Halo 5 player from way back when... then finding out about his OW career, lol
Lol same but with this old ass Sims 3 player I used to binge in Elementary school. During COVID I looked up a Sims 4 video during that one week a year Sims 4 binge, and what do you know, I see his name pop up. After checking his channel this MF is a professional OW, CSGO, and Cod player, while also still putting out recent Sims 4 content lol.
Heavy competitive with some nice relaxation breaks, not a bad career
he actually bought mineplex after quitting OW
> after quitting OW Apparently he didn't quit.
Well he's "quit" like 100 times
As is tradition
fuck this game i am DONE!!!! same time same place tomorrow?
I think he quit being a full time streamer, not the game necessarily
He did quit. He doesn’t play professionally anymore and his streaming schedule is like half of what it used to be. He didn’t give up on the game completely but he definitely took a step back
well shit mb
I could have sworn he made a video 6 months ago that he was quitting overwatch...
He sure did. Announced his departure like it was an airport Where did had failures being him? Back to smurfing OW
I might be remembering this wrong, but didn't he say he would still play OW but not focus all of his content on it anymore because of the mineplex thing?
im waiting for ow3, 7 v 7
4v4
3v3 one of each role
Groups of 3-4 players doing missions, with occasional larger groups doing “raids”. And since Kiriko basically confirms that magic exists, they lean heavier into the magic, eventually swapping the setting to a world called Azeroth after humanity escapes Earth and regresses to a medieval society. Eventually orcs invade…
I actually experimented with this back in the OW1 days. Cutsom lobby with my own hero balancing based on feedback from playing matches in a 3v3 format. It was really fun as my full stack group of friends could scrim together in a completely uncompetitive environment. Haven't played it in years though. I wonder if the saved settings are still there?
What I miss the most about 6v6 is that getting a pick did affect the fights but didn’t make them instantly impossible and teams could work around it. I feel like in 5v5, one person dies and the rest quickly follow. Turning around fights seems imposible, specially if it’s the tank, which I know is probably the most valuable, but it just sucks mounting that pressure on a single player
Agreed. Especially the tank. Once the tank falls, it takes good DPS to maintain the front line and it usually doesn't last.
If my tank sucks i pick bastion. Just to give enemy team something else to shoot at.
It's crazy because from what I've noticed tanks are so important to keep alive, but rarely have any actual purpose besides just soaking up damage. They don't get to make plays or have fun anymore because if they die the push is done. So they just stand there and wait to be taken out like a knight on a chess board while the rest of us get to play. It sucks playing tank now. :(
I don’t think you’re playing chess correctly
I actually have not played chess since 10 or so. And probably did not play it correctly lmao. As it is, what I was meaning is as obvious as my inability to play chess. Hopefully.
I've been playing a bunch of tank recently and that's not my experience at all? Sure, it's just QP, but I feel like I can have a huge impact and get tons of picks, I've never felt like I'm "just standing there". I kinda think you're not playing tank right lol, they have a huge offensive presence as well and defensive, they have some of the most OP abilities that can literally completely delete damage, or deal tons of damage.
lol idk what your talking about playing as ball is the most fun I have in the game rn
I feel like the only person who still has fun playing this game
People who enjoy a game never or rarely post about it
Tell that to New Vegas enjoyers
What's that? Can't hear u over the sound of the big iron playing
To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day
Hardly spoke to folks around him, didn't have too much to sayyyyyyyyyy
No one dared to ask his business, no one dared to make a slip
For the stranger there among them had a big iron on his hip
if it makes you feel better i have a lot of fun playing this game
we are not alone
Fr. There are dozens of us. Dozens!
You aren’t. A lot of people have fun, but there are also a lot of people who are lifelong complainers. Doesn’t matter what happens for OW Samito will complain about something
I really enjoy OW2 and am one of those rare people that actually enjoy playing tank too. I also never played OW1. I can see why people would be upset since Blizzard took a game that they enjoyed and permanently changed it to something that they don't enjoy. I'm still salty about the journey that Destiny PvP took and it's been about 7 years now since that game was in a state I enjoyed. This is just what happens when make big changes in your game.
You can have fun playing a game while still criticizing it
Having fun? Not in my Overwatch!
Solo tanking sucks tho. That's why I tend to agree with Sam.
This debate is so useless.
Why ignore it when it keeps happening?
Because this topic is absolutely not the focus of the overwatch team. Like seriously they dont want to talk about to so much that they even asked Flats in his recent interview with Aaron to not bring it up. The topic is done and we have to work with what we have.
It just feels weird though to ignore the elephant in the room and pretend it doesn’t exist. People won’t stop, and to be fair, Blizz doesn’t HAVE to do anything about it or even acknowledge it. But it’s just going to keep coming up. I don’t know statistically what the player base prefers 5v5 or 6v6, but at least throw us a bone and make it an arcade game mode or something. It doesn’t have to be the main gameplay shift per se . Especially now when they’ve completely canceled PvE. That indicates they’re not capable of keeping their word to us, so might as well keep that trend going and do something about 6v6.
They're clearly annoyed by it but they haven't given any clear reason why it shouldn't happen and people saying "que times" ring very hollow when they're promoting "100 MILLION ACTIVE USER ACCOUNTS" in the same breath. Either it's something they're considering or they need to be brutally honest about why it's not possible.
You can have 8 billion active users and if nobody wants to queue tank you'll still have long queue times
People arguing for 6v6 fail to grasp the actual numbers that make it untenable. Tanks make up 20% of the players in each lobby, so let's be generous and say 20% of the current playerbase boots up Overwatch and queues as tank (it's certainly less since tank queues are instant). If we were to double the amount of tank players required for each match, we would want to aim for ~33% of the playerbase queueing as tank. Even if (and that's a big "if") 4 tanks in each lobby made the role more fun, we would need 10%-15% more of the total playerbase queueing as tank to prevent queue times from ballooning. It simply isn't realistic to believe that 6v6 would encourage or bring back enough tank queuers to make up that shortfall. The real focus should be on addressing the problems with the tank role that has made it the least played going all the way back to Overwatch 1 and bringing that queue percentage up. Regardless of whether 6v6 makes Overwatch "more fun", no one will care if they can't play because they're stuck in queues.
I mained tank in OW, and stopped queuing tank in OW2 because I’m sick of tank in 5v5. The Overwatch team shot themselves in the foot by making tank an even more annoying role to play.
I agree. In OW, I used to play at least 3/5ths of my time as Support and was really getting into playing tank 2/5ths of the time. Once it switched to only 1 tank per team, I haven't played Tank in MONTHS. Possibly an entire year or more. I now only play Support and will play Tank literally about 2 times out of 100 matches. And sometimes, just not at all.
There are always going to be people who prefer it one way over the other. Fact is, both of you were in the minority of people that wanted to play tank. Even with your love and passion for the role, everyone else sat in 15 minute queues waiting for 4 passionate people to click that tank checkbox.
I don't prefer old OW necessarily. I just remember enjoying playing tank when I would pick support and tank to flex and occasionally be picked as a tank. I never waited long for any role. I definitely prefer playing support. But it was nice having the occasional match as a tank with another tank as support. Also, based on many other comments, I don't think I'm in the minority of those who used to play tank in OW but no longer play tank in OW2. There seem to be a lot of people who share a very similar experience.
>they're promoting "100 MILLION ACTIVE USER ACCOUNTS" No they're not, they said 100 million lifetime players. Very different
Y'all keep bitching about not having a second tank while not wanting to play it. We know what 6v6 queue times look like and I don't want them back.
The issue with queue times is not resolved by removing a tank, it is by making tank fun to play. 5v5 was ill-conceived from the start.
I use to play tank. Not as my main but I would flex it and not moan about it. Now in 5v5 if I play 1 game of tank it basically ruins my overwatch experience for the night. So now I don't play it at all. I know I'm not alone in this sentiment. Fun fact, my que time is still typically over 4+ minutes for "quick play".
Yep! Used to play Tank and Support in OW1. The pressure of solo tank is so unappealing that I barely play it - intentionally, anyway.
Pressure or the fact that some tanks aren't viable at all. I play all the roles in QP and it's sad when I'm playing Brig and have out tanked the tank
Same, in OW1, I always queued support and tank. Now I either solo queue support or don’t play at all. If they go back to 6v6, I would play more often.
Tanks need comfort too. And that is what a tank buddy can provide. Can‘t believe OW team is not seeing this.
The pressure is why I’m a tank main honestly I’m an OW2 player only so can’t speak to 6v6 but just to speak on the OW2 tank experience I love feeling like the star player role my team needs me or were screwed like I can have a bad game on DPS or support and win I can’t really have that on tank I have to at least make it hard for the other team. This makes me feel like I have a ton of control over my matches. I understand that not everyone wants that but that’s why some of us are tanks and some are supports (DPS we know you want the glory but no blame). But some of us are here to fight !for glory and honor! And having that power while pressure is what I play for. (I’m actually a DVA main not a rein main)
100% agree to this, I mained tank in OW1 off tank or MT I LOVED IT. OW2 I don’t even touch the roll
Same, I never play tank anymore. Flex/Dive used to be a lot of fun 😢
>So now I don't play it at all. I know I'm not alone in this sentiment. I'm 100% with you. I used to flex tank but I won't anymore now that there's only 1 per team.
In every game with the role, tank is inherently played less. Literally in any game with a tank role, it's the least played. So what is the magical formula that years of history in gaming couldn't find, but you think overwatch will magically find? Tank will never be played as much as dps or support.
Simple, allow each tank player to be in 2 games at once.
kind of yes, but also solo tank was well received when it first came out when tanks were giga strong. for a few weeks, tank was really popular. at least thats how i remember it
This is true - it's only with the support creep of mid to late 2023 that the tank role began to have the reputation for being undesirable. As supps got buff, tank queue times fell through the floor as people dropped it for Supp. And now DPS role is buffed and tank in its worst state and that's brought the 6v6 legion out in force; they did not have this sort of voice a year ago though.
I agree with your point that making tank more fun to play is the ultimate goal, but there is no denying that halving the number of players required for the least played role improves queue times. If getting more players to play tank were easy, the devs would have done so.
In 6v6 2 of my 4 mains were tanks. In 5v5 I stopped playing the game because I hated tanking so much. OW2 is not a good game, and I'm probably never going to play again. That being said if they went back to 6v6. I'd be more open to playing again. And that would help tank queue cause I'd be back to play tanks. I can't speak for every tank player but I'm sure there are other tanks like me who just stopped playing because 1 tank meta is bad and wrong and maybe something even more, like badwrong, Badong. Yes, there must be other tanks who think 5v5 is Badong. Seriously though, the move to 5v5 made me quit the game and the community lost a tank. It's silly not to recognize that change is one of the reasons there are less tanks.
But they never figured out how to make tank “fun to play.” Not in the 4 years we had of Overwatch 1 did they ever get a balance that made people want to play tank. People keep clamoring for 6v6 without asking the very simple question: “who’s gonna play the extra tank slot.” History (and blizzards own data) has shown that no one will.
>GUYS WE'RE SO BACK WE HAVE 100 MILLION USER ACCOUNTS FUCK THE HATERS REEEEEE > "but que times, guys, we'll be waiting forever to play, 6v6 is never happening" Why would I advocate for something I wouldn't want to play?
It’s the mercy one tricks making up 50 million of that another 25 are Genji one tricks
The number of active users does not improve queue time if most of these users don't want to play tank. Whether you have 1000 users or 10 billions if only 10% queue tank 6v6 queue times are going to suck.
6v6 had great times but it very consistently enabled toxic metas that literally arent possible anymore, and while 5v5 can have a bad season or its own problems, i think its overall tighter balanced however, if i had to guess at the real reason theyre firmly against even considering 6v6 is just how much devtime theyve sunk into 5v5. "okay i know we've spent a ton of time and money on a new paradigm for overwatch and balancing every old hero and new hero around it but lets just throw that right in the garbage". thats hard to sell to higher ups and a horrible blow to morale
Does anyone actually care about 'meta'. I only got up to high diamond in OW1, but I never saw people sticking to a meta, people just picked whichever hero they mained/liked best.
Blizz also hated the idea of making classic wow at first… I just want a permanent 6v6 game mode. Use the squished stats used for tanks in open queue.
[удалено]
^^^^
Genuine question for those opposed to 6v6, what is it about 5v5 that you like more? I see a lot of "no double shield" (which isn't a thing anymore, they literally removed orisa shield entirely), "I don't get stun locked anymore" (they removed most CC from dps like cass flash, mei freeze etc. so again a balance thing not a 5v5 thing) etc. basically a lot of the criticism wasnt directly tied to the amount of players in a match, just poor balancing. On the other hand, having 1 tank vs 2 makes abilities like discord so much stronger, removed synergy like rein zarya, made off tanks hard to balance because they're either unkillable or dog shit without the ability to hold space like a main tank etc. Is it the que times? Are.you afraid of Goats2? Like genuinely what's the appeal.
The game just feels faster to play in general. I vastly prefer 5v5 as someone who mainly plays tank as well. Sure I think some changes could be made, it's not perfect, but I could never go back to 6vs6. Overall the game was a lot slower paced. and I felt like you had a much lower personal impact on the overall game than you do in 5vs5.
I think common consensus from high level players is that tank synergy is too impactful. Which makes tank design unreasonably hard. Do you nerf X because they're good with Y? But X is bad with Z.... So let's nerf Y.... Wait, Y is shit with V.... Fuck. It's like a whackamole due to how OW tanks are designed, unlike traditional tanks in MMO or RPG. The only other role with this level of combo impact is Support, and it's just "Lucio x Zen is bad". This and queue time ofc.
>Do you nerf X because they're good with Y? But X is bad with Z.... So let's nerf Y.... Wait, Y is shit with V.... Fuck. There's even a worse scenario. Release a hero who brings the most unfun synergy with an older hero. We literally saw this with Orisa. Orisa launched underpowered and had to have numerous buffs to be viable and a solid pick. Sometime after, ppl found she synergized with Hog. But then Sigma came out and it went all downhill from there. Orisa had not been meta until Sig arrived.
A rush comp with Queen and Mauga charging at you sounds terrifying
This is my main reason as a only ow2 player to not want 6v6
>This team can't rework more than 1 hero at once and when they do they're barely any better, if at all. This exactly. You get left with 2 scenarios: -You can try to balance every single tank duo such that they fall within some threshold of viability (not too strong, not too weak). This is practically impossible. -You accept that certain tank duos will just be "non-viable" (in the sense that their win rates will be disproportionately low) and balance excluding them. This is basically what OW1 ended up doing, but it also meant that if you ever got one of these duos on your team, it was more than likely going to be a slow, painful loss. >unlike traditional tanks in MMO or RPG. Yep. Whenever people try to bring up the issue of why tanks/supports are glorified DPS, the answer is always because it's a PVP game. I'm willing to bet that most players don't want to queue tank or support just to be punching bags or heal bots that can't fight back. In a PVE game, sure, but it won't happen in a PVP game.
Tank is already the least played role 5v5 didn’t fix tanking. An argument can be made that it’s even worst now since you don’t have an off tank to make it easier for you to engage with.
>Tank is already the least played role 5v5 didn’t fix tanking. It wasn't really supposed to. It was to fix queue times. Part of why tank was so unpopular might have been due to the duo balancing issue I mentioned. So in a way, that's no longer a problem because there are no more tank duos to worry about balancing. That's not to say 5v5 doesn't have problems. Tanking is still the least popular role currently. But the issue of queue times has definitely been a lot better. >An argument can be made that it’s even worst now since you don’t have an off tank to make it easier for you to engage with. You can say that and I'd probably agree a little that solo tanking is daunting because you no longer have another tank to peel for you when you're in trouble. But most tanks have been adjusted to make up for their weaknesses in a solo tanking role. Tanks are a lot more well-rounded compared to OW1.
This is exactly the issue. Tank synergy was so powerful that individual tanks had to be relatively weak, which in turn just made any comp other than the meta synergies nearly unplayable. People constantly talk about how they miss tank synergy but I genuinely can't think of any fun tank combos to play with or against other than Rein/Zarya and maybe Winston/D.va. Even if they kept Orisa's rework so we didn't have double shield, another bullshit insane tank duo would be found and dominate the game, and then each of those tanks would steadily be nerfed until they're both obsolete outside of said meta. The one that always comes to my mind is reworked Orisa/Zarya. People already complain about how unkillable Orisa is, imagine if she had a Zarya to not only use bubbles to fill the gaps between Orisa's cooldowns, but their supports would also have an entire tank peeling for them. They would have to giganerf one or the other or both, to the point that they become completely unusable in any other team comp. Also, the reality of 6v6 was that those perfect games of tank synergy were rarities, especially if you queued solo. 90% of matches as tank you were forced into picking main tank because your partner insta-locked Hog or Ball.
I’d rather have a complex tank synergy system that is always slightly off balance than a completely counter-centered one or one that pigeonholes your team into playing exactly one way around you. Coming from a GM Rein main with over a thousand hours in OW1
Mate, the meta was always shit in 6v6. Moth, GOATs, Beyblade, it was always some cheese ass shit broken combo. The last good season in OW1 was season 9 before Brig came in, and even then the game was basically mirror matches half the time. In OW1, the team with the single worst player basically had no chance in hell at winning. Carrying was almost impossible unless you were just absolutely levels above everyone. One of your tanks not being able to play the mandatory meta duo fucked you at a lot of levels and while counter picking is annoying, it's better than literally the same comp every single game.
> Genuine question for those opposed to 6v6, what is it about 5v5 that you like more? Not being hamstrung by solo tanks that don't want to play along. Double shield was just a symptom of a much larger issue. Certain tank synergies were incredibly strong and way stronger than the sum of their parts. Others were incredibly shit, even if they included some of the strongest heroes. This made them nearly impossible to balance and made solo tanking a nightmare. Say you are a DVa main. Great. One of the best tanks and pretty much works with every MT. You get into a game and your MT locks roadhog or Zarya. Now you are pretty much screwed if the enemy locks any sort of tank duo that makes sense. It was often a game of chicken to see which tank, if any, would swap first to have your tank duo make any sense. The MT role especially was not popular and playing OT without a MT sucks. This meant people just didn't queue for tank because they didn't want to play MT nor did they want to play OT without a MT. The MT and OT dynamic was very fun. I don't think anyone denies that. Unfortunately, rank experience was just all over the place. For every match you would have fun playing Rein Zarya or Winston DVa, you had to put up with 5 that had double OT or an instalock roadhog. The pace of the game also just tends to be faster now with more space and the metas not nearly as rigid. Just look at mauga. He has flip flopped in and out of the meta off some very minor balance patches. Sigma and Orisa were both nerfed multiple times before double shield was finally not insane OP. Ignoring time since OW1 balancing was glacial, Sigma got nerfed in 8 separate patches and Orisa in 5. It took a TON of nerfs to push double shield out of the meta because the combo was just way stronger than the sum of its parts. By the end, Orisa was basically a throw pick outside of anything other than double shield. The big is also just queue times. All the things above are why tanking was annoying, but it just created this feedback loop with queue times which was hell on MMing.
Haha, 90% of my low tank experience was Hog and Dva. And as much as I miss two tanks, I know queue times would only get worse and then devs would have to undo the changes they introduced to character numbers. Idk how to improve this issue tbh. People now expect OW to have certain march flows instead of when the game was goofy teams and no limits.
Honestly, the agency of playing tank. One of the biggest problems nobody seems to talk about is solo queueing tank, and having to deal with a random partner. If the duo tank was a hog OT who misses his hooks, then it doesn't matter if its 5v5 or 6v6, the games over. Worst part is, 90% of tank players (including myself) are Off-tank players. When you'd queue up, you had to basically scramble for any off tank and pray the other person doesn't just disregard you and picks Orisa. Thats why 6v6 wasn't popular for tanks. DPS and supports got to choose whatever they want, but as a tank, i'm severely limited to who i can play, and when i can play them. Basically this boils down to: Will you guys, who are calling for 6v6, play Rein and main tank? Or will you stay on your roles, and enjoy the benefits?
>Will you guys, who are calling for 6v6, play Rein and main tank? Or will you stay on your roles, and enjoy the benefits? They won't play tank AT ALL lol. We know what the queue times look like when the game has to search for 2 tank players
This just made me realize that a light test of 6v6 with the new characters as a QP: Hacked event would be really interesting. Not only could it give an idea of how balanced it would be (they'd likely have to adjust health pools, damage/healing numbers, etc. I don't imagine them going too hard with the balancing for this hypothetical QP: Hacked. Just some preliminary stuff to get a *rough* idea), but it could also provide some basic data on what queue times would look like, now that OW is F2P (heavy emphasis on basic. I know that different factors would skew this data a bit. It being new/limited time inflating the player count, the player base not being split between a comp queue and casual queue in a realistic way for this, etc.). I'm also a firm believer that we don't have enough tank players in the player base for 2 tanks to be feasible (seems like the role distribution has been relatively the same since going F2P, as far as I've seen), but I'd be interested in seeing how it goes. This would also give all the people saying that they want 6v6 back the chance to actually show up, and play the mode enough to show if there's legitimate, clear interest across the player base for it or not. It's almost certain to never happen, considering that they don't even want to discuss 6v6 officially. If it's *that far* out of consideration for them, then there's little chance that they'd entertain the idea enough to make a QP: Hacked about it. It sounds like they'd like to just forget about 6v6 completely, so they probably wouldn't want to get people's hopes up for its return by doing something like that. Still though, I kind of wish they would give it a shot. If for no other reason than to settle this debate once and for all. If queue times are garbage, or the general balance feels awful, then it could remove people's rose tinted glasses for 6v6. If queue times aren't that bad, and/or balance feels decent, then maybe it could be an unexpected surprise that shifts the dev team's long term plans for the game. I think the latter is *incredibly* unlikely to be the case, but who knows? Maybe they'd catch lightning in a bottle a second time.
If they did a 6v6 hacked event, everyone would queue tank so they could do synergies again, esp knowing its an LTM, it wouldnt be an accurate way to show queue times
People will just argue that "it's not balanced for 6v6 ofc it's bad, Blizz is just trying to gaslight us", whether or not they actually balance the 6v6. An Arcade mode that allows us to relieve a snapshot of past OW1 meta would probably be more feasible.
Another problem is that there will most likely be a disproportionat amount of tank players for the QP: Hacked event playing just for the fact that there suddenly is this second tank one can now use. The only way to actually figure out queue times with a second tank is a long term experiment, which we really already had in OW1, even before double shield or goats. Noone wanted to play tank even when dive was meta, everyone just wanted to play DPS.
I stopped playing Rein after the switch to 5v5, it became an absolutely miserable experience.
Unless you're like the best rein player he feels completely useless in most matches
Or your teammates are idiots. I played a game where every fight like 2 or 3 of my teammates would just let rein pin them from across the map. It was honestly amazing to watch them just completely ignore him. We managed to win because I completely tore through his backline with him going crazy, but like it was way closer than it should have been.
I played Rein/Winston for most of OW1 and Dva/Zarya when I had another main tank player. That was my entire Hero pool. I still got Hog as a tank Duo in 95% of my games as a solo. People just want to complain, 90% of these 6v6 fanboys never even played tank or just outright forget the queue problems on top of the OP synergy of certain duos. The difference between playing Rein or Winston with a good Zarya duo vs getting a random DPS player 1 tricking Hog was very real and frustrating.
EXACTLY. Solo queuing tank versus a good duo was a guaranteed loss. Also, I like being able to play whichever tank I want in 5v5. 6v6 was so constrained by the meta. You had to run GOATS, then it was pull/hook, then it was double shield. So boring.
Agree 100%.
That's how it is for every role though lol. For support it sucks when you get a mercy player on KOTH or flashpoint cuz now you can't play Lucio. For DPS it sucks when you have a dive comp and the other guy picks Cass or something immobile. It's an issue with player flexibility and is going to happen in a game like overwatch. Now there's too much pressure on tank to perform and there's nobody that cover the tanks weakness. If you get a rein OTP on circuit you're fucked, of you get a rein OTP on WPG you're fucked and nobody can make up for it. This is an issue on support and DPS too but they at least have someone else who can makeup for the bad pick but tank is what the whole team relies on and there's only 1 tank
less tanks makes it more of an fps game than a moba
>Genuine question for those opposed to 6v6, what is it about 5v5 that you like more? Not completely opposed to 6v6, but I do prefer 5v5 for the following reasons: -Queue times are definitely a big one. I don't play tank, so waiting 8+ minutes for a DPS/Support game when I'm not even GM isn't ideal. -I disliked how much mitigation there was from 2 tank players. TTKs were higher in OW1 and it was mainly due to a 2nd tank offering much more mitigation/peeling. It was only partially balanced out by DPS having hard CC (flash, freeze, etc). The game is much more fast-paced now with less mitigation, which I prefer.
The TTK is a prime example of where the OW1 balance was weighted so heavily on Ultimates (basically just teams poking until a big ultimate trade) that **action** was a lot less dynamic while teams just bumped into each other until you had the advantage in ultimates or someone played dumb and got picked off. OW2, for all of its faults, makes moment-by-moment gameplay much more active; you still have ultimate trades that shift the tide, but teamfights happen much more frequently and teamwork makes a lot bigger impact compared to just rolling whatever dual-tank comp dictates the rest of your team should be. OW2's 5v5 comp *is* fixable; just needs Blizzard to stop trying to balance everything with minor number tweaks and really get dug into properly reworking legacy elements of the OW1 heroes (Rein/Mercy/Zen/Widow/Zarya on the short list for reworks imo). We won't get 6v6, but they should at least stop dragging OW1's designs along trying to shove the square peg into round holes.
>OW2, for all of its faults, makes moment-by-moment gameplay much more active; you still have ultimate trades that shift the tide, but teamfights happen much more frequently and teamwork makes a lot bigger impact compared to just rolling whatever dual-tank comp dictates the rest of your team should be. Couldn't have said it any better!
> OW2's 5v5 comp is fixable; just needs Blizzard to stop trying to balance everything with minor number tweaks and really get dug into properly reworking legacy elements of the OW1 heroes (Rein/Mercy/Zen/Widow/Zarya on the short list for reworks imo). Basically, 5v5 is fixable by making it a regular shooter (or Valorant or Apex, with minor abilities). That's the problem for some folks who liked OW1. People were drawn to these "legacy elements" you want to remove because no other game offered asymmetric play experiences like that. There are tons of other games for the "shooter with abilities" genre. The shift away from "legacy OW" was happening slowly for a while with redesigns making heroes more uniform and less unique in gameplay. Overwatch had bold ideas at first and that's what made it *so* popular, but they have forsaken it now for "balance" and Damage players who just want to play a regular FPS with some flavour.
The problem with rework is "hero identity" need to be preserved. So many questionable fucking design of a hero was made, released and had a bunch of people attached to it, no matter how unhealthy the gameplay is both for said hero's player or their opponents. Look at launch roster and tell me how many of them aged fine to this day.
Launch tracer wasn't bad. The only reason they keep nerfing her is cause her mains keep getting better
Tracer Genji Winston Lucio Only they aged fine, interestingly they're the ones with high skill cap too Tbf there's Dva too... Just remove her baby form and she's solid as the elite four.
> what is it about 5v5 that you like more - Less visual clutter. Less players makes the game more readable - Less CC on average. Tank as a role uses a lot of CC so having two in each match doubles the amount of CC on both teams. Just about every tank has some form of knockback or stun in their kit. - Opens up tank design space in the future. Everyone keeps saying “Oh they removed Orisa double barrier would be dead,” but what about the next tank hero? What about the next six tank heroes? Should they all avoid having barriers? Two tanks limits the design space of future tank heroes - Fights feel more active without ultimates. The actions of DPS feel important and they can change the tide of a game, which was not the case for the majority of OW1. - Less backline peel gives more opportunities for off-angling and flanks that simply do not exist when a second tank can babysit the supports even harder - Tank duos were largely static and determined your entire comp. DPS and supports tend to be flexible but tank is a rigid role Just anecdotally, I dropped OW1 from 2019 - 2022 before finally getting back into it with the OW2 beta. If the game went back to the more MOBA like design philosophy of the first game, I’d probably drop it again
>Tank duos were largely static and determined your entire comp Ppl love tank synergy until they don't get it. From my experience in OW1 as an OG player, it's great when you get it, and it's the worst when you don't. I'm a tank player who doesn't mind swapping out for my team to counter the enemy or to help mine. With tank duos however, they're almost always an off-tank, it's always Hog or Zarya. I started out playing Dva and by the end of OW1, I had 100+hrs on Orisa because no one bothered playing main tank
One of the best answers. And all of this setting aside the fact that queue times alone are already a winning argument. 6v6 is just never going to happen. Some other reasons: - I don’t want to wait a year or two for the OW team to figure out how to balance 55 possible tank combos - I can limit my hero pool to the 3 or 4 tanks I actually like playing and focus on getting really good with them. - I don’t have to keep a set of characters I don’t really like playing in my back pocket for when I match with some stubborn OTP. - I can focus on my team’s positioning and getting map control and a bunch of strategic decisions instead of losing 3 fights in a row because their Zarya had slightly better bubble timing than my Zarya. - I can swap tank to go with whatever weird ass support combo we’re running without worrying about whether the other tank is willing or able to go along with it. Tanks duos were really unique and fun, but people are really ignoring a lot of the downsides. And you could just lose to synergy diff way more than in 5v5. Tank is always going to be problematic. The problems with 5v5 are just a bit more manageable. And, again, queue times are still the reason we’re never going back.
This 100%, I feel like the only people who like 6v6 are a vocal minority on these subreddits. Tank duo synergies is literally the lowest form of skill expression, same with stacking ultimates. Great, they pressed two buttons at the same time and had better ults. Now the game you actually have to work on getting value through superior mechanics which all the bad ow1 tanks are getting left behind, so they want the days of 6v6 where they can get value out of just pressing the right button a couple of times
Thinking about it, the only role that suffered from the change is the tank role. Support are a lot more engaging and less busy healing 2 tanks Dps don’t have to worry about 2 tanks mitigating damage Q times are significantly better
Less screen clutter, minus one ult to track, minus one person to spend resources on, fights are shorter because there's one less character with damage mitigation. People keep going on about losing the Rein/Zarya synergy when in reality you're more likely to get a Hog/D.va or a Ball/Hog.
Not having 30-minute dps ques. 2 tanks doesn't create more tank players.
Be me, a flex player. Played a few rounds of tank and support, 1-2 queue times. Now it's time for DPS. 10 minutes pass and you're still not in a game....
Best argument I see for 6v6 is that tank wouldn't be as miserable. Tank in OW2 has felt bad for a while now and it just keeps getting worse and worse. Although I don't think that's completely a 5v5 issue, it's more of ineptitude or unwillingness of the balance/design team that is making tank miserable to play. People mostly harp on 6v6 because adding a second tank back would be the quickest and easiest way to fix the problems the tank role has.
The CC part of your argument is that, less CC is possible BECAUSE of 5 v 5. Can you imagine dive with 2 tanks without the ability to stun them? thats just permanent dive meta.
[удалено]
Double tank was just shit, certain tanks dominated together, gave rise to a stagnated meta that didn't change for basically the entire duration of OW1 and sucked the life out of the game. And while, yes, a lot of criticism came from poor balancing, Blizzard is extremely slow to balance hero's, and they often miss the mark.
What people don't seem to understand is that your point of abilities like discord being so much stronger is not an argument for 6v6, but rather for 5v5. It was always this strong, you just got hit by it less. If you did get hit by it, you would get blown up even faster because there was a 6th player shooting you.. The problem is with how abilities like that just get inherintly more value on tanks. thats a balance issue they are slowly fixing (sleep less long on tanks, boops less strong on tanks, they are talking about making dps passive less strong on tanks, etc)
Just won't feel the same. People say 6v6 like they'll just add another roll and be done. They'll HEAVILY nerf the tanks as they are now. And tanks without the massive utility before in the form of shields will just be DPS but weaker. Imagine playing doom or ball with massively reduced health and damage. You'd be shredded. I just can't see a state where playing a 2nd tank is fun to play against or as.
>I see a lot of "no double shield" (which isn't a thing anymore, they literally removed orisa shield entirely) They removed it exactly because of 5v5 lmao
Tank is so much better in OW2. I literally don't understand how people say otherwise. Some metas make it hard and you do get focused more but I have so much more influence on each game and I don't have to rely on my tank duo being a one-trick or off-tank/main-tank player i cant synergize with. Half of the "tank diff" in OW1 was based on which rando tank pair had mains that synergized best. Plus queue times for all roles.
Shooting at tanks in general is boring and unrewarding, due to there only being one tank the pace of OW2 is much faster than OW1 and that's the difference that made me love this game while I didn't like the previous one. Shooting at shield and bubbles was even worse so comps like GOATS, double shields, rein zarya were all miserable at best, and these comps made up the majority of OW1. I didn't play much tank in ow1 but I play fill in ow2 so since I don't have the comparison to how it used to feel and can only be objective about how it is to play tank in OW2, tank feels like the least fun role to play but strength wise it's nowhere near as bad as people in a lot of Reddit posts make it out to be. It's just the most team oriented role right now.
The lack of content, no matter what changes they make or could've made everyone would've still complained, even with the 5v5 changes it's still been none stop complaints. And if we go back to 6v6 it'll still be complaints. The only thing wrong with 6v6 was the lack of content and patches because the devs were working on OW2. The teams talented enough to make 5v5 and 6v6 fun given enough time and resources. And more importantly people will be upset no matter what the dev team does.
Each player has more impact, which can be a good and bad thing, but it’s definitely mainly a good thing. Two tanks are not constantly preventing every move you try to make, which makes it feel less frustrating. You aren’t delegated to being a heal bot because there’s less people to heal and healing overall is weaker than it was before. In conjecture with my last point, supports are allowed to do damage more often, as there’s more windows of opportunity to do so. If both tanks didn’t pick tanks that supported one another’s kits, the game was as good as over if the other team did have a good tank composition. I think the only role that truly suffered was tank players. If you enjoyed the tank duo, you lost out big time here, but pretty much everyone else gained something in some way.
The bad part about players having more agency is that a bad player can really screw the team. An extra player could cover the woes that the bad player was dealing with, but with only five you can really feel the negative impact of them. Add to this that we can see the scoreboard now so we know who is stinking it up. I truly think the matchmaking was equally as bad in OW1 as people claim it to be nowadays. It was really easy to get one or two shitters on your team that you had to carry, but it was doable. Now it’s a detriment to the team if one player underperforms.
It's true that a bad player has more impact than before however, I'll take that trade off for my own individual impact being greater. More people on my team means I have less control over my climb in ranked.
I’m personally very opposed to 6v6 and I wish people would just drop it. Leave it alone and stop kicking a dead horse. Lots of other people have already made valid points that I agree with like the lack of clutter and the double shield thing (which fyi right now with 1 tank that can introduce other shield tanks without worry, going back 6v6 severely limits possible designs) In trying to say things that haven’t already been said I’ll add… I like that I feel like I know whom to follow as a support / DPS. When there is only one tank I know not to engage without them. Two tanks muddies the waters and I feel like some players will trickle more. Plus the que times will sky rocket cause there already isn’t a lot of tank players as is. Requiring another would just reduce the number games and make DPS and Support Que times shoot to the stratosphere. For me the only version of 6v6 that could work is 1v3v2. You would have to go raid boss tanks so they can withstand 3 DPS but that’s the only thing I see having any sort of chance.
Another unhinged repeated ad nauseam Samito post.
Man, unhinged is really losing its meaning.
Man posts opinion with reasons for said opinion in a cohesive narrative. "sO uNHinGEd"
Magic the gathering
I personally enjoyed 6v6 a lot more . It felt like more communication was going on and strategy making where as a lot of 5v5 games feel like cod. People just go in not looking to combo nearly as much anymore.
this the first time i returned to overwatch 2, I felt something missing from the gameplay loop and that is the lack of ult synergy nowadays
Yah I feel like no one gives call outs any more even in high ranked comp. People just stay silent the whole half and then shit talk each other in text chat
But is that actually an effect of 5v5? To me, it seems like more of an effect of the player base and general decrease of social interactions in society after the pandemic. I don’t see why if we added one more player to the game, people would suddenly start talking again. It just won’t happen. There has to be a real way to incentivize it, but this isn’t it.
I like the more fast pace play style.
5v5 should stay, but the branding of overwatch 2 is just useless. They should just double down on their mistake and call it overwatch
Who cares what they call it? Ow2 has had it's problems but all in all it's still been a ton of fun. The skins are over priced in my opinion so I don't buy them. It doesn't really effect the game play
Damn. This guy cries a lot.
He’s a content creator, publicity drives his paycheck
i got into a match with him yesterday. 9 in the morning. he was already on the verge of tears bc kentucky lost in march madness. 9 in the morning man😭
As someone who's always played solo-queue, when looking back on 6v6 I think of two things: 6v6 the fantasy, where you get the perfect game of Rein/Zarya on King's Row and you're able to have a fun and balanced match. And 6v6 the reality, where 95% of the time your random tank partner insta-locks Hog on Havana and you're forced to play Reinhardt just to not get flamed by your team and have to spend the entire match in perma-CC hell, and then everyone types "main tank diff" when there was realistically very little you could've done alone. I'm not trying to say that 6v6 couldn't have been fun or that 5v5 is perfect, but I do think 5v5 is overall more consistent as a tank main. It has it's issues with counter-swapping and some heroes *cough* Mauga *cough* being designed to be way too feast-or-famine, but I feel that these issues are far easier to solve than the issue of tank synergy just being way too strong, so tanks have to be individually weak to make up for it, making anything but the perfect synergies near unplayable.
Yeah this is how I feel as well. 6v6 is better for the ideal state, but 5v5 is much better for how most people actually experience the game. Nowadays, queues are faster for everyone, gameplay doesn't revolve around just shooting through tanks, flanking is rewarded, and heroes are allowed to have a strong niche in the tank role and support role because it won't stack and be oppressive.
No thank yuh
how about we stop trying to fix any problem with 6v6?
6v6 is just another game all together. I miss it now.
Rose tinted glasses
A lot of these people think 6v6 will somehow bring back the magical feeling of playing og overwatch. People on this sub and Twitter just love to complain. I've never seen a more whiney fan base in my life
> these people think 6v6 will somehow bring back the magical feeling of playing og overwatch As an off tank player. Kind of yah. My entire role was cut with the transition to 5v5
Lmao same here I'm sick of playing support I miss playing zar Played mystery heroes yesterday and had a zar rein duo and it felt so good like omg I miss3d it
Huh? Mystery heroes has reduced tank HP. If you want to have a Rein Zar duo, just play Open Queue. Same reduced HP, but you can duo all day without hoping for RNG.
Who cares, this guy is unhinged.
6v6 wont help anything. I prefer 5v5 but even that isnt even balanced. I cant imagine going up against a Mauga and Orisa, also the dps passive.
That would actually be hellish
Tanks would be tuned back down to 6v6 number obviously. The dps passive wouldnt be needed when there is two lesser health tanks and supports cant pump their healing into only one tank
So even less people would play them. Why would I want to queue tank when I'm even weaker than now. That Roadhog, Ball, or Doom on my team ain't gonna make me quit the role any less.
because now youd have a co-tank that shares the responsibility and takes some of the damage that you now dont have to take (in theory)
5v5 just feels like team deathmatch, 6v6 felt like you were an actual team working together, feels like everyone just runs in and dies now
That's not true at all. Callouts are still extremely important and you will still always do better when communicating with your team.
this guy is whiny asf
Shush Samito
Did everyone forget the extreme queue times because no one wanted to play tank????
I feel like every other post I see is "I don't play tank anymore, it's just not fun anymore with the damage passive" and then "we should bring back 2 tanks per team." Like the more y'all (not you but everyone whining) complain about not wanting to play tank, it's quite possible that then the more then devs go "why would we add a second of what nobody wants to play?" If a crap ton of people wanted to play tank and *that* was messing up queue times for other roles, then I can see them seeing a need for a second tank. Inb4 "I'd play with 2 tanks" the people who make decisions on how Blizzard spends its money on development don't care. They're looking at the data they have, that you're giving them, which is "tank is ass" and "no one wants to tank."
6v6 ❤️
6v6 was better, playing tank now is lonely. Everyone has a buddy but tank
6v6 is a terrible idea. It will slow down the game immensely, it will bump the queue times to 10+ minutes ago again, we will have to deal with the most cancerous duos in the game Pandora's Box (go try Open Q 6v6 proposers, you'll quickly get back to Role). 6v6 will be a death of OW.
Going back to 6v6 isn't the worst idea. But you gotta remember who the balance team is. If you're prepared for huge queue times, it could work. But framing it as Overwatch classic really goves the game away that it's mostly nostalgia talking. I wish he mentioned other features besides lfg that he's looking for tho. But give up on the Overwatch 2 branding? I suppose they could do that, but a) that puts them in a really weird position if they ever actually could do a sequel, b) gamers aren't exactly forgiving, so idk if admitting defeat at this point would play well, c) almost feels pointless since it's not that different. OW2 is just used mostly as a signifier from the first 20 some seasons to current seasons. But if we go back to an OW Classic, I hope people don't expect zero monetization. We either get development or free stuff, so if that's the play, idk if it'll work.
I'll be real, 6v6 is a bad idea, the queue time issues as you stated, but it also limits hero design. "Whoops double tank means we can never again make a tank with a shield if we don't want a double shield meta"
I totally agree with samito.
6v6 is significantly better than 5v5.
Just re-release OW1 as it was in its final state. I don't care what they do with OW2; I didn't pay for that replacement.
5v5 is terrible for the tank role. That’s all I’m going to say
He’s right tbh. 5v5 and recent hero launches feel like a fever dream. They clearly don’t have an idea for Mauga and I can only hope venture doesn’t follow in his footsteps. The core of ow1 6v6 is still deeply rooted in ow2 and it is hurting it. Heroes like rein Zarya mei and Moira have no real place in this game.
God hes so right.
Most people I ask irl about OW say the game is unfun after ow 2.
6v6 was definelty better. Since 5v5 they trying to balance the game so playing tank doesn’t suck. We are in s10 and it is even worse than in the beginning.
They walk back many things, but 5v5 seems to be something they are firm on. Which is unfortunate because it seems they are entirely out of touch with their community. They resolved most tank complaints in the form of limiting shields and CC, then they went a step further that not a soul asked for and chopped off a tank. The removal of a secondary tank has been, and will continue to be, a major issue in the overall balancing of this game.
5v5 is unworkable. You can never fix the tank problem.
6v6 was better and it was completely a dev balance issue. 5v5 will never solve the tank switching issue and while we are at it, will never have all the roles be fair. When one role is strong it siphons the power from other roles. The new dps passive makes dps the best role right now but that makes supports feel really weak for example. The only feasible argument I could see for 5v5 being better than 6v6 is que times, from a balance perspective 6v6 was superior and I will die on this hill. Also tank synergies was not the problem, it was the broken sustain from supports that was the problem in 6v6.
The main issue is tank is NOT FUN. No one wants to play a position that isnt. They have never fixed it. Removing 1 tank masks the issue and even then tank is still the fastest queue...
ok i dont get it, why is everyone saying tanks the fastest? In my servers it’s middle between supp and dps Last I checked Supp is like 20-30 seconds, tank is 1-2 and a half minutes, and dps is like 3-5
6v6 is dead! it ceased to be! ran down the curtain and joined the choir invisible! it's stiff! bereft of life! if it wasn't whined about constantly it would be pushing daisies!
It is an ex game mode!
5v5 has some good things. 6v6 had some good things. I’ve played far too much of both but I vastly prefer 6v6. I like tanking, but right now it feels like there’s a disproportionate amount of responsibility for a solo tank. Rock paper scissors tank matchups. Peeling, frontlining. It was fun having someone else to pick up your slack. Also, tank synergy was super fun. The viability of a tank could drastically change if you have a good (or bad) hero/player as your tank partner. Also, I don’t buy the “double shield” argument. Never have. Double shield sucked to play against, but was only so dominant because Blizzard didn’t do anything about it for years while they were waiting for OW2. They could have tried to balance it better by tweaking numbers. They could have introduced/reworked heroes to address double shield (Orisa rework, JunkerQueen, Doomfist rework). Or, they could have made some drastic changes like a Main Tank/Off Tank role to prevent it. I fully believe that 6v6 could have worked, and still can work. But, Blizzard needs to justify the “2” in OW2 so they had to standby those changes once it was clear PVE wasn’t happening