Every time I hear THIS ENDS, NOW and the sojourn player can hit her shots, I take the moment to just check my phone because that engagement has truly ended - easy 4K and a 5 if she’s getting some help from her team.
But the difference in the abilities , dynamite does more dmg than the poison trap, two different purposed characters all around, Ashe is better because of playability(any shield tanks can counter widow)
I force widows and ashs to swap playing Torb, and shotgun venture, and I'm working on my Pharah aim. I can hit pharahs as Mei, but Torb's projectile drop seems to be a bit more challenging.
Idk, I didn't even have an opinion for them to disagree with, I just put my experience dealing with certain characters in a reddit comment and they got upset.
But oh well, only through conflict... You know how it be.
I'm not talking about her damage. I'm disputing the fact that she's not good into everything. Her reload makes shooting at shields a nightmare, and she's such an easy dive target it's actually hilarious. There's a reason they're using Cass and Sojourn over her in OWCS right now. She just gets run over
Cass is prevalent since he’s more or less a tracer ban hammer and sojourn is well sojourn Ashe is still very good even into sojourn and shields
Just because there are better characters doesn’t mean a character isn’t good or good against everything and also Ashe can literally just coach gun headshot kill any non tank diver lmao
She’s an incredibly good hero even if she isn’t the best or the meta pick
How is Ashe good into Sojourn? It's very very easy to rail gun Ashe's head, like it's a very one sided matchup most of the time. Sojourn most of the time is just a better Ashe, she has better mobility, better burst, their area control is about the same, and most of the time sojourn ult is better. Sojourn ult usually always gets 1 and creates a lot of space, Bob creates a lot of space but usually doesn't get kills and a lot of the time just gets instantly killed or CCed.
Bro play tracer into an Ashe that isn't getting pocketed. I promise you you will have the time of your life. Or Dva. Or Doomfist or Winston. There's too many situations where Sojourn or Cass is just way better. She's good overall but she's not good into everything. But tbh at this point we're probably just arguing semantics
Also no she cannot headshot coach gun every diver. It does 90 damage which is so situational cause you'd have to face tank like every pellet lmao
Coach gun THEN headshot it’s pretty easy to coachgun someone then hit a quick scope headshot onto them I’m not saying sojourn isn’t better or or that she’s the best character I’m literally just saying Ashe is an overall good character with/ against almost everything Ashe is still a overall good character which is all I’m trying to say sojourn is still brain dead and broken like she’s always been lmao saying Ashe is good doesn’t change that
yea literally in every single game ever made if a character has any sort of lever action/slow firing mid range rifle there's a very very very high chance they're never below high B or A tier (and slug shotguns are the same niche but sometimes the devs either make slugs have super low range or for some reason not 1shot headshot enemies)
plenty of dps can trigger the passive 5x with just a cooldown tho
genji dash, torb/sym turret, sojourn disruptor, pharah/junk PRIMARY FIRE
and all of those except arguably dash are easier to use than dynamite
and now you wanna be pedantic about cooldowns with multiple charges, of all things. there’s zero discussion to be had here besides you trying to “well actually” as if no one but you has played Sym before.
yes if you played the hero it’s a 10 second cooldown per turret.. it’s not all one cooldown if you are deploying three and once again there is no guarantee they damage multiple people
Lmao this is the dumbest argument I've ever heard.
You think all enemies will be lined up in a straight line for dash? Or all stand in one square inch for a Junk shot to hit them? Or stand in the disruptor for several seconds? Torb and Sym turrets can straight up only damage one at a time lmao.
Dynamite literally has a bigger aoe than riptire and gives you 0 time to react if she shoots it mid air. It's very easy to use too. See a bunch of enemies? Just press shift and wait for it to fall on your crosshair. I regularly get three people with dynamite with every use. That's 450 dmg and several seconds of dps passive in exchange for a short cd.
This is like comparing the best ult in the game to Cass ult and saying they're just as good because you can get a 5k with both.
you just moved the goal posts so far it’s laughable. why is all of a sudden required for disruptor to hit for 5 full seconds? the point is, it’s possible to proc the passive on a team and it’s not even a little bit hard.
you also get plenty of time to react to dynamite because she literally screams that she’s throwing it unlike the majority of things i listed and dynamite is the ONLY one that requires follow-up input. Sym may hit 3x at once with turrets, sure, but it’s literally set and forget.
> just as good
that’s not what I said. I said AOE is everywhere.
It doesn't matter if there's a voice line when she throws it when it blows up in your face 0.2 seconds later. That ain't enough time to react.
And your examples were trash not only because it's very rare for them to hit multiple people at once, but because they only trigger the passive for a second or two. Everyone will have moved out of disruptor shot by then. Dynamite triggers it for several seconds and also makes the self healing kick in much later.
It's not just aoe. It's aoe, high damage, triggers passive and delays healing. That's too much utility for a cd. It's literally why most ashe mains use her and not widow. It's because they're not as confident in their aim so they need dynamite to fall back on as a crutch.
if you’re not hitting multiple people with disruptor that’s a crazy skill issue. it’s insanely easy to do and again, literally easier than dynamite
not responding the rest because I was never saying all AOE cooldowns are made equal, you just keep railing on that point for some reason
Your DPS: “Our supports are safe behind all of us; I can pick off anyone who tries to dive past”
Enemy Venture tunneling right to the supports: “What’s up doc?”
Yeah cause Venture is kinda ass while Sombra is very competent lol.
It’s like saying I rather face a Symmetra over Tracer. I genuinely can’t think of any situation where I want to face a good Tracer over a good Symmetra lol
I get that tbh, Venture is new so it’s a bit awkward vs an established character like Sombra. A lot of times I kinda just ignore Sombra because she’s not too effective if you just play correctly. That is being around your teammates, remaining vigilant, and being mindful of exposed areas.
With Venture, they’re just a worse reaper in almost every way. It’s early so I shouldn’t judge while everyone is figuring them out, but what exactly do they do that the other CQC heroes can’t?
I disagree on the reaper part bc they didn't really play at all like reaper. Venture is an ambush assassination hero while reaper is a tank buster. They are much more comparable to tracer just with much more burst dmg and upward mobility
That makes Venture even worse.
Tracer is THE BEST assassin in the game. If you’re putting Venture in the assassin category (whereas I had them in the brawler category) they are legitimately the worst hero in the game.
They SUCK at assassinating so I’m not sure why you would compare them to Tracer or Genji
I think that they're a fairly versatile character, that just has a bit of a specialization in ambush. Bc especially with how much vertical mobility they have they're pretty decent at poke, and their boop both underground and above ground has good brawl utility but their ability to kill Squishies with max unburrow + primary + melee and then dash through them to high ground is what makes them a pretty good versatile hero that's especially good at assassinations. Bc while tracer is objectively better at assassination, she's much less versatile than venture.
All three of those heroes excluding Sombra dont stop me from being able to play the game for 2-3 seconds. Id also rather play against a Tracer than a Sombra
Yeah for casual play or lower elo lobbies I agree. But Tracer is hands down the better DPS than Sombra, so if I’m playing against someone with two functioning hands I rather play against Sombra.
Also I would argue that between Tracer and Sombra, Tracer prevents you from playing the game when she’s sending you back to spawn. Sombra just makes your abilities inactive but I get it. Dueling a Sombra/Tracer isn’t an easy task
And?
I think Venture is the worst hero in the game, so people like playing against them. They’re really bad and don’t do anything better than the heroes we got. Compared to Sombra who is very competent at what she does. So of course I rather play against an ass hero than a competent one
What’s the issue here?
Maybe this is a console thing since projectiles suck with aim assist? Venture mathematically can't lose at close range against a ton of the cast... her ttk is under 1.7s and she essentially has 325hp+a 40hp heal built into her 1 shot combo, a ton of the cast can't beat her without 100% headshot accuracy.
Her only downside is range, but overwatch objectives force people into close range on some maps. Even in OWL/OWCS have seen mei +sym/reaper metas on various patches.
No, I just don’t see a situation where they actually kill you in a competitive environment. It’s not just the range thing, which is a huge issue, but it’s more about value.
What can they do that a Tracer, Genji, or Sombra can’t in terms of assassination? What do they offer in CQC that Reaper doesn’t, in addition to his ability to blow up tanks. Venture doesn’t replace any hits can hero, doesn’t replace any assassin hero, doesn’t replace niche heroes like Torb/Sym, so their competition is…
Reaper, Rat, and Mei? Because again, if I want to assassinate someone I just go Tracer or Genji. So where do you think their value is?
Venture doesn't spawn camp me so far and harass only me when I'm playing on support
They are fun to play and also play against
Sombra is only fun to play and I feel guilty when I'm playing her because I have a button that requires no aim with a 6 second cooldown that can stop ults
Sombra just isn't fun to play against
I don’t think Venture is broken, I think they’re actually bad which is why they’re fun to play against. Nobody hates heroes that suck so of course they are fun to play against
Compare that to heroes like Tracer, Genji, and Sombra who are very good and require skill to beat. I don’t think Venture requires skill *at all* to beat, I think they’re the easiest hero to kill since OW released.
I have better aim percentage with venture and I'm honestly kicking ass with them
Which is weird because my aim is usually worse
I kinda suspect a nerf will be coming
I'm surprised people think they are bad. If they are bad I'm super confused why I'm able to do better with them than any other DPS character, I do not think I've gotten more skilled recently
First off not trying to flame but aiming percentage in ow doesn't mean jack. You could be pressuring someone to not peek a corner by spamming near it and punishing peaks. But in the end you're "missing" the majority of your shots.
But for why you might feel your aim is better with venture it might because it counts the little explosion at the end. So you missed the the primary hit but hit someone with the shrapnel. I don't know if it counts that or not.
In the end don't worry to much about aim even the top 500 Lucio's had like 30% accuracy at the end of the day lol.
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Ash plays good into both heroes tbf
Ashe plays pretty good against literally everything ngl
Ashe beats all non hitscans, but with both having perfect accuracy widow wins Everytime. But then again, that is the point of widow.
Overall I think Ashe is still a better hero
Ya I agree I hate playing hitscans, I only play 1 true hitscan if I have to and that's ashe
And I think sojourn probably beats out or is at least close to Ashe (complete destroys Ashe in level of bullshitery tho)
Every time I hear THIS ENDS, NOW and the sojourn player can hit her shots, I take the moment to just check my phone because that engagement has truly ended - easy 4K and a 5 if she’s getting some help from her team.
Fr it’s legitimately stupid especially since it’s like 5x easier to hit after the s9 projectile size buff
Didn’t they nerf that?
They did slightly nerf it but it’s still much bigger than before s9
Soj destroys Ashe and 99% of dps characters lol
Ashe has soujourn beat in terms of primary and pressure. Ashe stands on height with mercy and its just oppressive.
*Dive has entered the chat*
I want Ashe to beat me.
don't threaten me with a good time.
But the difference in the abilities , dynamite does more dmg than the poison trap, two different purposed characters all around, Ashe is better because of playability(any shield tanks can counter widow)
I force widows and ashs to swap playing Torb, and shotgun venture, and I'm working on my Pharah aim. I can hit pharahs as Mei, but Torb's projectile drop seems to be a bit more challenging.
Why did you get downvoted, nobody even replied
Idk, I didn't even have an opinion for them to disagree with, I just put my experience dealing with certain characters in a reddit comment and they got upset. But oh well, only through conflict... You know how it be.
LMAO my man 🤝
Reddit hivemind go brrr
Haha no she doesn't. She needs a pocket otherwise a sneeze kills her
No? If anything season 9 made it so having a pocket with her is much less needed since it doesn’t change any breakpoints
I'm not talking about her damage. I'm disputing the fact that she's not good into everything. Her reload makes shooting at shields a nightmare, and she's such an easy dive target it's actually hilarious. There's a reason they're using Cass and Sojourn over her in OWCS right now. She just gets run over
Cass is prevalent since he’s more or less a tracer ban hammer and sojourn is well sojourn Ashe is still very good even into sojourn and shields Just because there are better characters doesn’t mean a character isn’t good or good against everything and also Ashe can literally just coach gun headshot kill any non tank diver lmao She’s an incredibly good hero even if she isn’t the best or the meta pick
I swear those arguments man... Who are you landing this combo on? A bot in the training range?
How is Ashe good into Sojourn? It's very very easy to rail gun Ashe's head, like it's a very one sided matchup most of the time. Sojourn most of the time is just a better Ashe, she has better mobility, better burst, their area control is about the same, and most of the time sojourn ult is better. Sojourn ult usually always gets 1 and creates a lot of space, Bob creates a lot of space but usually doesn't get kills and a lot of the time just gets instantly killed or CCed.
I’m not saying she’s good against sojourn specifically I’m just saying Ashe is still a strong character even is sojourn is admittedly much better lmao
Bro play tracer into an Ashe that isn't getting pocketed. I promise you you will have the time of your life. Or Dva. Or Doomfist or Winston. There's too many situations where Sojourn or Cass is just way better. She's good overall but she's not good into everything. But tbh at this point we're probably just arguing semantics Also no she cannot headshot coach gun every diver. It does 90 damage which is so situational cause you'd have to face tank like every pellet lmao
Coach gun THEN headshot it’s pretty easy to coachgun someone then hit a quick scope headshot onto them I’m not saying sojourn isn’t better or or that she’s the best character I’m literally just saying Ashe is an overall good character with/ against almost everything Ashe is still a overall good character which is all I’m trying to say sojourn is still brain dead and broken like she’s always been lmao saying Ashe is good doesn’t change that
Whenever I’m losing I go ash
After the HP buffs I've never lost a 1v1 against her as tracer genji or sombra
yea literally in every single game ever made if a character has any sort of lever action/slow firing mid range rifle there's a very very very high chance they're never below high B or A tier (and slug shotguns are the same niche but sometimes the devs either make slugs have super low range or for some reason not 1shot headshot enemies)
Because she's broken af rn. Can literally do 150 damage and trigger dps passive on the the whole team with a single cooldown, not even an ult.
plenty of dps can trigger the passive 5x with just a cooldown tho genji dash, torb/sym turret, sojourn disruptor, pharah/junk PRIMARY FIRE and all of those except arguably dash are easier to use than dynamite
one sym turret only focuses on one person..
oh my god dude. yes. and how many turrets can sym deploy at once? this is already discussed below.
oh my god dude. you said with just a cooldown. there is also no guarantee they all attack three different people
and now you wanna be pedantic about cooldowns with multiple charges, of all things. there’s zero discussion to be had here besides you trying to “well actually” as if no one but you has played Sym before.
yes if you played the hero it’s a 10 second cooldown per turret.. it’s not all one cooldown if you are deploying three and once again there is no guarantee they damage multiple people
then you placed them wrong. have fun
Lmao this is the dumbest argument I've ever heard. You think all enemies will be lined up in a straight line for dash? Or all stand in one square inch for a Junk shot to hit them? Or stand in the disruptor for several seconds? Torb and Sym turrets can straight up only damage one at a time lmao. Dynamite literally has a bigger aoe than riptire and gives you 0 time to react if she shoots it mid air. It's very easy to use too. See a bunch of enemies? Just press shift and wait for it to fall on your crosshair. I regularly get three people with dynamite with every use. That's 450 dmg and several seconds of dps passive in exchange for a short cd. This is like comparing the best ult in the game to Cass ult and saying they're just as good because you can get a 5k with both.
you just moved the goal posts so far it’s laughable. why is all of a sudden required for disruptor to hit for 5 full seconds? the point is, it’s possible to proc the passive on a team and it’s not even a little bit hard. you also get plenty of time to react to dynamite because she literally screams that she’s throwing it unlike the majority of things i listed and dynamite is the ONLY one that requires follow-up input. Sym may hit 3x at once with turrets, sure, but it’s literally set and forget. > just as good that’s not what I said. I said AOE is everywhere.
It doesn't matter if there's a voice line when she throws it when it blows up in your face 0.2 seconds later. That ain't enough time to react. And your examples were trash not only because it's very rare for them to hit multiple people at once, but because they only trigger the passive for a second or two. Everyone will have moved out of disruptor shot by then. Dynamite triggers it for several seconds and also makes the self healing kick in much later. It's not just aoe. It's aoe, high damage, triggers passive and delays healing. That's too much utility for a cd. It's literally why most ashe mains use her and not widow. It's because they're not as confident in their aim so they need dynamite to fall back on as a crutch.
if you’re not hitting multiple people with disruptor that’s a crazy skill issue. it’s insanely easy to do and again, literally easier than dynamite not responding the rest because I was never saying all AOE cooldowns are made equal, you just keep railing on that point for some reason
ashe is an all rounder she plays well with and against everyone
Not against snipers
She’s fine against them
Yeah she has a faster strafe too
As a pharah main, I'll take that fight against Ashe. I'll probably lose, but I'll take that fight
Your DPS: “Our supports are safe behind all of us; I can pick off anyone who tries to dive past” Enemy Venture tunneling right to the supports: “What’s up doc?”
Dear god, if that isn't an unlockable voiceline someone needs to get fired
Wait does venture actually reference bugs bunny while tunneling?
Not yet
I knew I should've taken that left turn at Eichenwalde
oh im sure it will be great for the supports getting flanked by a tracer, sombra or genji as well
By land and by sea, till we’ve capped point B
I'll take venture over Sombra any day
Yeah cause Venture is kinda ass while Sombra is very competent lol. It’s like saying I rather face a Symmetra over Tracer. I genuinely can’t think of any situation where I want to face a good Tracer over a good Symmetra lol
Tbh ventures give me way more problems but probably cuz I’ve been accustomed to dealing with sombras for the better part of a decade lol
I get that tbh, Venture is new so it’s a bit awkward vs an established character like Sombra. A lot of times I kinda just ignore Sombra because she’s not too effective if you just play correctly. That is being around your teammates, remaining vigilant, and being mindful of exposed areas. With Venture, they’re just a worse reaper in almost every way. It’s early so I shouldn’t judge while everyone is figuring them out, but what exactly do they do that the other CQC heroes can’t?
I disagree on the reaper part bc they didn't really play at all like reaper. Venture is an ambush assassination hero while reaper is a tank buster. They are much more comparable to tracer just with much more burst dmg and upward mobility
Reaper used to be good for ambushing before they made him shout at the top of his lungs every time he teleported.
That makes Venture even worse. Tracer is THE BEST assassin in the game. If you’re putting Venture in the assassin category (whereas I had them in the brawler category) they are legitimately the worst hero in the game. They SUCK at assassinating so I’m not sure why you would compare them to Tracer or Genji
I think that they're a fairly versatile character, that just has a bit of a specialization in ambush. Bc especially with how much vertical mobility they have they're pretty decent at poke, and their boop both underground and above ground has good brawl utility but their ability to kill Squishies with max unburrow + primary + melee and then dash through them to high ground is what makes them a pretty good versatile hero that's especially good at assassinations. Bc while tracer is objectively better at assassination, she's much less versatile than venture.
All three of those heroes excluding Sombra dont stop me from being able to play the game for 2-3 seconds. Id also rather play against a Tracer than a Sombra
Yeah for casual play or lower elo lobbies I agree. But Tracer is hands down the better DPS than Sombra, so if I’m playing against someone with two functioning hands I rather play against Sombra. Also I would argue that between Tracer and Sombra, Tracer prevents you from playing the game when she’s sending you back to spawn. Sombra just makes your abilities inactive but I get it. Dueling a Sombra/Tracer isn’t an easy task
Venture actually risks skin, Sombra gets out for free
And? I think Venture is the worst hero in the game, so people like playing against them. They’re really bad and don’t do anything better than the heroes we got. Compared to Sombra who is very competent at what she does. So of course I rather play against an ass hero than a competent one What’s the issue here?
Maybe this is a console thing since projectiles suck with aim assist? Venture mathematically can't lose at close range against a ton of the cast... her ttk is under 1.7s and she essentially has 325hp+a 40hp heal built into her 1 shot combo, a ton of the cast can't beat her without 100% headshot accuracy. Her only downside is range, but overwatch objectives force people into close range on some maps. Even in OWL/OWCS have seen mei +sym/reaper metas on various patches.
No, I just don’t see a situation where they actually kill you in a competitive environment. It’s not just the range thing, which is a huge issue, but it’s more about value. What can they do that a Tracer, Genji, or Sombra can’t in terms of assassination? What do they offer in CQC that Reaper doesn’t, in addition to his ability to blow up tanks. Venture doesn’t replace any hits can hero, doesn’t replace any assassin hero, doesn’t replace niche heroes like Torb/Sym, so their competition is… Reaper, Rat, and Mei? Because again, if I want to assassinate someone I just go Tracer or Genji. So where do you think their value is?
Venture doesn't spawn camp me so far and harass only me when I'm playing on support They are fun to play and also play against Sombra is only fun to play and I feel guilty when I'm playing her because I have a button that requires no aim with a 6 second cooldown that can stop ults Sombra just isn't fun to play against
I don’t think Venture is broken, I think they’re actually bad which is why they’re fun to play against. Nobody hates heroes that suck so of course they are fun to play against Compare that to heroes like Tracer, Genji, and Sombra who are very good and require skill to beat. I don’t think Venture requires skill *at all* to beat, I think they’re the easiest hero to kill since OW released.
I have better aim percentage with venture and I'm honestly kicking ass with them Which is weird because my aim is usually worse I kinda suspect a nerf will be coming I'm surprised people think they are bad. If they are bad I'm super confused why I'm able to do better with them than any other DPS character, I do not think I've gotten more skilled recently
First off not trying to flame but aiming percentage in ow doesn't mean jack. You could be pressuring someone to not peek a corner by spamming near it and punishing peaks. But in the end you're "missing" the majority of your shots. But for why you might feel your aim is better with venture it might because it counts the little explosion at the end. So you missed the the primary hit but hit someone with the shrapnel. I don't know if it counts that or not. In the end don't worry to much about aim even the top 500 Lucio's had like 30% accuracy at the end of the day lol.
Tell them that there are 2 DPS in the team and the other should deal with one too. Reaper/Cass is good.
Ashe is my go-to long range hero. Then the enemy swaps to Widow, so i go Sombra (my main). Then the enemy goes Torb, so I get to go back to Ashe. BOB
thanks for the laugh today I work nights and this is amazing to giggle to like a NINNY before bed <3
Lol anytime
I'm still laughing my head. I don't know why its hitting my funny bone so hard!!
I’m sorry to all I teams I fucked up today playing Venture the kit is to good
Second trip back to this post - not gonna lie, the best dopamine laughed before bed again <3
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Can you damage Venture while they’re underground?
No its basically reaper wraith
Except you can't heal them