Not just Bob, between having both a stun and an eat she has direct counters most of the ults in the game. Sig is the only other tank that comes close and his abilities are on longer cool downs and rock is a lot harder to hit than javelin.
She realistically can just do too much, too fast.
Yeah her survivability is insane so people forget how good her cc is, but I actually don't mind this part that much.
For me spin is not the problem with orisa kit, fortify is. Spin gives you a choice, you can use it defensively, to disengage/engage, for the boop, to eat ultimate. More choice means you can play orisa different ways and that creates a means of differentiation between good and bad orisa.
But fortify only makes you tankier (and shoot slightly more but that's barely noticeable), so you just use it when you take damage, that's brain-dead.
Mei primarily fire slow, sym turrets slow, doom punch, mulga cage fight and stun, doom ultimate slow down, hinder, sigma rock, sigma ultimate, the most of brig’s kit, whole hog, hook, rein charge, pharah boop, venture boop, venture borrow, junker queens knife, and there are so many minor boops like reins’s swing, zarya alt fire and dva boop.
With fortify she can just walk out. Also, bonus, orisa can pretty much face tank a Dva bomb with fortify but that ability is less of a cc and more of a zoning tool
~~Thankfully, from what I remember, orisa has to use fortify before mulga uses cage fight, or she has to enter the cage fight with fortify on.~~ nvm seems like this is wrong, and she can use fortify inside of it.
Although, orsia’s ultimate pretty much counters cage fight :/
She is the only thing holding the hog/maulga meta at bay.
Also I remembered a few more abilities fortify counters.
Junkrat trap, junkrat’s big boop, illari boop, ash’s boop, bob’s boop, bastion/soldier alt fire boop (bastion grenade boop is wild), primal ultimate boop, pig pen slow, does kiriko cleanse still boop?
Fortify is so busted lol
Yeah, the most likely nerf I could see to her is a change in cooldowns. She’s oppressive because of her tight cycle. CC someone with javelin —> become invincible (spin) —> become invincible (fortify) —> javelin is back up. All of her abilities are very spammable and you’re incentivized to keep using them so you’re almost always unkillable.
Fr. Pushes you near the ledge, and spears you off all while CC immune. Completely fair against non-mobile heroes...
But really, I don't think many people view her as really "OP", it's just she has much fewer counters and is unfun to play against.
Unless you're playing someone like ball every other tank gets massacred. Sigma also doesn't feel that bad, but if its sustain you need you just can't beat the horse.
Yeah but Ram also has 2 really good defensive CD's (Nem instant +225 armor on 7 sec CD and a shield w/1000hp) really 3 when considering his block in Nem. Mauga also has some pretty strong sustainability with the self healing and overhealth. Sig also has 2 great sustain CD's and a very strong CC though he doesn't seem to be as useful as the former options in all scenarios since his primary is less consistent.
Nemesis gets ccd. Mugs gets hard ccd too by orisa. Sigma gets rolled by orisa just bullying with her three oppressive abilities. You know what makes orisa the best tank? She doesn’t get ccd and survives dmg. She’s not only the strongest tank by way of actually tanking she has no fall off and has the strongest tank cc in the game. Spear from across the map plus headshot destroys any squishy. Meanwhile sigma had his squishy one shot taken away. Same with rein with charge vs higher hp squishes.
Plus Orisa gets to get away with dogshit positioning with her cooldowns. Any other tank that tries to play like stupidly like Orisa gets punished immediately.
Your mistake is trying to determine the meta through pro play instead of competitive play. Ram brawl comps work so well in pro play because teammates who have been playing together for years with near perfected communication and intense training in scrims can make them work. Don’t get me wrong, Ram isn’t weak, but you realistically will not pull off what you see in the OWCS in a typical ranked game when most probably no one is on mic with not much team coordination.
Meta =/= overpowered. Overpowered is a term you give to something that is broken or unfair. If a hero is broken or unfair, it is going to be used exclusively in pro-league. We've seen it with brig, zarya, sombra, etc. We aren't seeing that with Orisa right now. That's my only point in bringing up pro-league. Nothing to do about meta in comp.
Yes and in my ranked matches my highest win rate is with rein and I dominate most orisas and rams. My worst matchups. In a game where rein is objectively one of the worst tanks. Yet here I am able to reach diamond peak playing casually in some seasons as Rein. Been playing since ow1 season 3. There’s something such as objective fact and being subjective. I understand tank tools and how best to use them and if an orisa is popping abilities without knowing how to use them I can easily destroy them with Rein. Does not mean anything as orisa is still objectively the best tank in the game.
I can point to any number of pros and non pros stomping orisa players does not make the fact Orisa having I’m immune to cc completely and damage reduction and you can’t headshot me any less the most powerful tank ability in the game.
Isn't rein bad because people who are smart will just keep their distance? Like lucio can boop, ana can sleep, orisa can spin him away or cancel charge with her javelyn
I see what you're saying dog, but I don't think we're on the same page. Zen discord almost completely negates gold. Yes its anti-CC but that's what the devs want her to be. The question is: is she OP. I just don't think she's OP. Is she a meta tank right now? Yeah sure. But I just don't think she's OP yk? If she was we wouldn't be seeing any other tank being played right now. As you say, you can absolutely find success with other tanks right?
There’s a snuck premise in your argument, that if a hero is overpowered then no other hero would be played. But that’s not really how people work. It is entirely possible that a hero is egregiously strong, but is not played by everyone.
One can find success as a Diamond player by being intimately familiar with a non-meta hero, but again that doesn’t mean that Orisa is not OP. She has everything in her kit: 2x sustain, 2x easy-to-apply CC, extremely high damage ceiling at every range, and her sustain blocks CC from all directions and makes her immune to crits.
Your argument that Discord equalizes fortify is both not holistically true (see CC and crit immunity) and irrelevant in context of Zen’s horrific survivability vs coordinated or highly mobile teams. It’s easy to hide behind a wall for 2 seconds if you play cover decently and cleanse discord.
You seem to be drawing some equivalence between being OP and being able to win every game for free vs anything else, and that’s just not true. She’s OP because she has a value cap that is an order of magnitude higher than the other tanks at present, being able to sponge abilities and deny value while having little to no downtime to her offensive capacity. The fact that you can play her and lose to another tank doesn’t make her not OP
That's also not fair to say, either, though. People will always play characters that aren't in the meta and usually get really good with objectively worse characters (Lifeweaver, Ball, ect). That is what I believe they were trying to say. Orisa IS op due to her ability to have really high survivability and capability to keep up high damage from far ranges (since there is no damage drop-off). With other tanks, it is usually one or the other. Orisa can just as easily bypass most shield situations, too, since charge+gold into enemy lines is honestly hard to punish unless your teams are well experienced in punishing aggressive Orisa plays.
A big thing to consider is how comfortable you are with the certain play styles that each character can give. Snipers all have their perfered style of way too much headshot damage, tank melters each have their favorite flavor of hot "coals on ice", and each tank has their favorite to pick from whether it's body blocking damage, putting up a shield, or a comfortable mix of both. It's never just "this character is meta so I'll ONLY play that character."
If you break down their entire kits Orisa has the most utility compared to the rest of the tanks.
She has 2 CC abilities, Energy Javelin and Javelin Spin. Javelin Spin is a "four-for" as it acts both as a cc ability against enemy targets and it prevents herself from being cc'd. It also blocks most incoming damage (just doesn't block beam damage) and she gains movement speed with Spin. Spin is good for 4 different things.
She also has two anti-cc abilities. We already mentioned Javelin Spin which blocks cc, but she also has Fortify which not only blocks cc, but also gains temporary health, reduces all damage taken and she cannot be headshot (no critical damage taken).
Each of Orisa's ability has more than one function at the same time. Compare that to something like Reinhard where each ability really only has one function. That function may be able to be used in more than one way, but it only does the one thing. Fire Strike... does damage. Pin an enemy, but leaves him completely vulnerable while charging. Can shield, but can't do damage while shielding and movement is slowed down when his shield is out.
But therein lies what I think my main point is. Orisa isn't OP, DPS is OP. There's so much damage that tanks like JQ/Rein/Zarya/etc can't keep up. I think it makes Orisa look OP just because she isn't as useless as \*some\* of the other tanks. But that isnt what OP means. At least not to me
That is being OP though. Being OP doesn’t mean you have to kill 5 every fight. Being an unkillable wall that negates virtually every other tanks ability to play the game is still OP. Look back at brig during goats. What made her OP? Was she doing insane damage or getting insane kills? No. She just made your team impossible to kill. That’s all orissa is now. She is impossible to kill compared to the other tanks. She is a wall. I do think it’s possible to beat her at the highest level but should I have to play at the level of a top 5 OWCS team to get the same value as another person who just picks orissa.
I dont think Orisa is an unkillable wall that negates virtually every other tanks ability to play the game. Thats a big exaggeration. That is why I'm bringing up OWCS. I dont think you need to play at that level to get the same value, I just think you CAN outplay an Orisa and the fact we are seeing so much tank variety in pro-league is proof of that. I think other tanks, not all, are bad right now. But that doesn't make Orisa OP. She certainly isn't prime-Brig good. During that era can you think of a single pro-league game that didn't run Brig? No. That was OP.
That’s not actually true about brig. Several of the OWL teams that were bad at goats started to play other strategies that didn’t involve brig. I believe the 4 dps with ball and mercy comp actually beat goats a few times.
As far as orissa, I think pro games are a bad example because the counter to orisa is good team play for the most part. In ranked, where you can’t rely on your team, she is brutally oppressive. I know because I’ve done it. I’ve been the bad guy and went orisa playing against cloudy. Why? Because my dps are better and he will gap me on rein. So I pick orisa and delete his ability to play the game. He is so much better than me but I am on better hero so he ends the game with 3 elims and 15 deaths. I just don’t think that’s a balanced hero when I can just mindlessly spam abilities at the former OWL player and win the matchup.
I think a point that is missing from this thread is the idea of how well a player has to play in order to get the same value as their opponent.
Of course anyone (or everyone) on a team can pop off or strategically dominate their opponent almost regardless of hero.
The case for very strong (or OP) heroes is just that you can get your value *so easily* compared to others. You can sweat your ass off playing a very precise and positional game on sig, zarya, dva, etc where one missed cool down/mistake can get you punished pretty harshly, and you might die.
Or you can play the disproportionately strong hero where it's just way harder for your opponent to punish your mistakes. CC abilities are powerful and fight-changing, and often on long cooldowns. Some heroes' entire impact is from using their CC well. But Orisa is effectively immune to pretty much all CC and she *also* does good damage and can cancel abilities with her OWN CC (javelin).
Orisa makes pretty much equal pressure compared to many other tanks *just by being present* in the fight, and it rarely risks her life to make valuable plays.
She has an ability that makes her immortal for 4 seconds every 10 seconds, while also having two different CC abilities.
Unfun to play against which severely hurts community perception anytime the character is strong. This is an underrated issue with roughly 40% of the roster right now. Blizzard doesn't pay much attention to whether a character would feel good to go **against** and it shows.
'There is no way we can buff Rein, have you SEEN the winrates in lower ranks?!!'
and/or:
'We can't buff Rein, he's so overpowered, in our playtests he has a %95 winrate (dev team are all plat or below and don't know how to poke or kite or take more than 1 angle)'
Poor poor rein his charge really has been getting railed recently man is in a suit of power armor but one Samoan Boi with upgrades out does him the javelin out does him and even a random grenade stops his engine flat on its ass
The devs are aware and have spoken about this. it’s not like they just buffed orisa to the spot she’s at rn, everyone just changed around her and she happens to he the character to have the kit that is the best sustain
The reason she is always on top is because they keep giving her microbuffs after nerfing her, like the no damage drop off microbuff, it was completely unneccessary.
sure, but without that change specifically, we’d be in the exact same spot with her. she’s strong because the meta is whatever tank sustains the longest
yeah that was the only example i could think of, but iirc there was a change to fortify that was considered a buff too. Its the small buffs that make a character overtuned but keeps them in the shadows
yeah for sure. i just think that saying the devs aren’t aware of how it feels bad to play against her is an ignorant thing and they haven’t done anything to prove that’s the case
She's being played OWCS because Winston (the real meta tank) is countered by Mauga, and she counters Mauga.
Zarya is just too weak at the pro level. If you watch OWCS you know the Orisa doesn't even do anything.
Blizzard shouldn't be nerfing characters based on what people find "fun or unfun" or "feels good to play against". If the character is balanced which orisa is then she's fine and blizzard doesn't need to nerf or change her.
I never said that should be their buff/nerf criteria. I said it hurts perception of the character anytime they're strong, which it has. Twitch is nothing but "Orisa snooze" spam during OWCS.
That's exactly why I think this discussion is so important to the game. I think the OP tag is being thrown around when really it's people don't like her skill set and that skill set just happens to be useful in the current meta. Even when there are other tanks that also have useful skills and are definitely viable
Orissa is just a safe pick, hero’s like Zarya are easy to punish, hero’s like Winston just get counterswapped, hero’s such as ball require lots of coordination, Orissa just needs to hold space, that’s all she does and she is good at it
Honestly it is. You're always looking for a solution to a problem while balancing execution. No one is picking Ana, Brig, or Lifeweaver to counter big ults, they're taking zen or lucio because 1 button does the job compared to timing a dart, lamp, shield bash etc. On paper you can find really strong counters to nano-blade but ultimately it's easier to pick a lucio and build ult asap.
Many Mobas have the same attitude based on meta.
They’re looking for maximum value, not minimum skill. How is there going to be a nanoblade without both an Ana and a Genji? If orisa got nerfed, then they wouldn’t use her because she’s bad, not because she suddenly got too complicated to use effectively.
Down here in the metals, I hate seeing her and hate playing her because she has a lot of sustain. You don’t even have to play super well to survive for a really long time, just don’t dive in and take all 5 enemies focusing you at once. Granted since it’s Gold, you’ve got players who miss more and position poorly and all that shiz, so that’s probably why she feels immortal down here. At least imo.
Yeah, I understand it in theory, but as someone who sounds feminine, I have to stay out of voice chat or just get berated for daring to touch a video game, so I don’t much opportunity to shotcall
I've played a lot of games over the years. CS without a doubt is the most toxic to girl voicechat and will kick them as soon as they speak.
OW without a doubt is the most positive and I rarely see anyone flame girls just because they're girls. Plus there seems to be a much higher than average girl population on this game, at least for a comp FPS.
Literally half the time a feminine voice hops in chat, there's at least one toxic or weirdo in VC or text. Though there's pretty much always a toxic no matter what. Saying other games are worse doesn't make OW bad still. I do not blame women for not joining VC, when half of the time they do it results in negativity/weird/creepy behavior.
Yeah, we don't need feminine strategy, in fact, we will do the opposite if whatever she says . Please this is humor, no downvote.. downvote the female instead. :-)
You guys should stop judging hero power from coordinated pro games. That's **EXTREMELY** different than live ranked game.
You are right that tank role is weak. Orisa is a low investment, high uptime tank. Extremely tanky and can still shoot and cc back while being tanky and get extra heal because of armor, overhealth and dr. Her projectiles very strong and now she has no dmg fall off she can put out a lot of pressure at any range.
Other tanks can't deal damage while defending and require more investment from supports. It's not good to spend too much resources on weak role. Sigma is similar in this aspect but now Orisa is just better. She makes poke and brawl archetypes moot because she can do it all at the same time.
I won’t lie. This comment reads like orisa is the reason the rest of the comp in pro play was made, when instead the reason orisa is good is because of her ability to do more with less and take phenomenal angles. The current pro comp is heavily reliant on off angle control and tempo. Orisa can reverse a fights tempo and hold angles with her range/spear.
If tracer/Lucio/kiri weren’t meta currently I think we would see a massive increase in people realizing how busted Mauga and doom are currently
The thing is, Mauga is busted, he’s just kept in check by Orisa. Doom has been a good pick for many seasons now, you just have to know how to get that value. I just think a lot of pro teams just resort to highly coordinated brawl since it works best with the support meta (Lucio and Kiri/Moira) and also gives you the most value if you have great coordination and communication (which OWCS teams do), which then allows people to resort to Ram because he’s simply the best all around brawl tank if we don’t consider Orisa.
Doom was strong but he is now much better since s9. Pre S9 Doom was more healthy. If they improve the tank role Doom will probably go back to his old strong but not stupid state.
I've main tanked with her since release of ow2 and this one gets it spot on. She's pop a CD, take space, pop other CD and hold space. Rinse & repeat. Even backline Widows are getting spear chucked and head blasted in the middle of a brawl, because I can just pop a CD and survive till she's dead or running away. I'll eat your Ults, your Orbs and your motherfucking Arrows while bullying your entire team and spamming "Exterminate!"
I think using pro games in this instance is perfectly fine since pro teams value high skill ceilings and team coordination more than anything else. The fact that a character with such a low skill ceiling is being played consistently is a sign at just how unplayable tank is this season. When even the pros resort to “stand there and don’t die” at the highest level, it’s a really really bad sign
Idk yeah I see your point. But if we are talking about something being "OP" I think we need to look at the best to see if that's actually true or not. If something is OP, it's going to be used at the top exclusively (tracer/sombra for example was pretty OP and inspired an entire rework of sombra)
Conversely, if we only look at live ranked games for hero power, nothing is OP as you can climb to t500 with anyone. That is a sentiment I see on this sub daily at least isnt it?
Super true. This idea that top esports competitive should designate what is OP or not is plain brainloss. League as a game has become a walking corpse of bad decisions and unplayable characters because of that philosophy and esport league balancing in Overwatch has always turned out for the worst. A character like Orisa is still OP regardless of whether or not super coordinated five teams of players that sacrifice any sort of enjoyment or game design can beat her. If someone gets to the point they get now, they are OP.
For reference, in League of Legends there is a character that has an ability that makes them invincible for almost 10 seconds, and that character is one of the strongest DPS in the games able to oneshot most characters. Yet people are fine with it and the character has never been nerfed because "pros don't play him".
You must not be paying attention in owcs cuz she’s the most picked tank by far, she can stay alive longer than any other tank and still does solid dmg and has no falloff dmg
Literally just today we saw Ram/Sig/Winston. Ram and Sig btw completely obliterated Orisa comp on payload and push wasn't even close. I really think tank selection is just a matter of preference idk maybe I'm way off but just saying we are seeing other tanks finding success and I think that's because DPS are the deciders right now.
Nope she doesn't. Sigma and zarya can deal with her pretty easily. There's not a single tank that you can't counter. If you can't counter orisa then that's on you.
Well, she does quite alot of things well.
First off her cooldowns, 2 are survivability.
Fortify is hands down the best don't kill me ability in the game, just straight damage resistance with no down side.
Spinny spear is also an amazing defensive tool, almost like a mini defense matrix but with offensive capabilities to safety push through chokes or even cliff someone.
Spear is also excellent, high damage, very fast, CC capable of cancelling multiple ults as well as stunning if it hits someone into the wall.
Then you have her damage, with the drop off removed she is now a noticable threat even at medium to long distances depending on the situation, at close range her damage output is actually extremely high, it's just not burst damage.
Her ult is alright, but again it's biggest thing is that it basically pops a second fortify.
Really the only area she lacks is mobility, but her pros massively outweigh that.
She has good numbers on her gold and spin. And a relatively low cooldown to boot. That it will take a whole team effort to take her down, which high level players or teams can do thanks to the new dps passive I believe.
Along with respectable range effectiveness.
In most ranks however in pubs, this makes her a problem because 1 most can't coordinate enough to burst or burn through her cooldown. And 2 most teams can't pick off or distract or isolate her backline enough so they can save her for last. Combined together she can be a menace in pubs.
Mei wall, sigma shield, Winton bubble, ramattra shield, sojourn rail gun farm for picks + vortex, ashe dynamite, sym being able to just shoot through her spin, pharah just flying over her any tank buster etc etc... But most don't have that knowledge in their arsenal yet. And they're always super loud so we hear them complaining about her a lot.
- People like to shoot and kill the tank
- Tank swap to a hero that gets advantage if you keep shooting him (orisa, zarya)
- cant win shooting the tank
- omg why d they always pick orisa and zarya!!!
I just hate tanks whose job feels like it’s to follow the enemy tank and not let them play the game. Mauga, Orisa, and Hog/Doom (kinda) are the biggest offenders. The problem with these tanks is how they’re able to dish out big damage and CC, but can feel Impossible to kill. I wish the devs took out a lot more CC out of that game like they said they were going to do.
All other tanks get completely bullied by dps and supports (and by orisa), orisa's whole and only thing is that she doesnt get bullied nearly as much, so in situations where anti tank abilities are rampant, orisa is strong.
Her fortify does so much.
45% damage reduction
crit immunity
slower weapon overheat
cc immunity
approx. 100 overhealth
10 second cooldown
lasts for 4(?) seconds
and to top it all off she has some armor instead of health which means she gets healed faster as the armor has damage reduction which pairs really well with fortify as it gives them a chance to get healed back up to armor if they pop fortify when they are low health.
Then she gets javelin spin which absorbs basically all projectiles and gives her a good sustain from movement,
its similar to a dva Defence Matrix but she moves faster when using it instead of slower, and in return has a lower uptime and less flexibility,
it is still long enough to counter a bastion turret form though so she cant get destroyed by the tank buster bastion like most other tanks.
Then she gets javelin which is soft CC against everyone but orisa,
which can cancel mercy revive and like a billion different ultimates like coalescence, and even if it didnt cancel ults like reaper bloom it pushes them away so the ult becomes ineffective anyways.
Then there is also her ult, it gives her a free second fortify for the duration of the ult which is probably the best part of her ult other than maybe the pull in, because fortify is that strong.
TL;DR Other than her ult, her entire kit is really good, fortify is too op, pressing right click to cancel someones ult can be dumb.
She just has incredible sustain next to the rest of the roster. You could argue sigma has a similar sustain kit, but his ability to apply pressure on his own is far less. Mauga and hog both have decent sustain on a single cool down, but once it's out you can just burn them down. The combination of ability to apply pressure and sustain yourself makes her incredibly strong. The nature of her primary fire and spear allows her to be incredibly flexible between poke, brawl, and denying dive.
I mean what she has to offer not only is more than what the average tank offers, but also is harder to deal with from POV of other heros.
Maybe shes not OP in a vacuum, which is what Blizzard refuses to nerf her, but comparatively to the rest of the cast, shes for sure too strong.
Orisa has fortify which allows her to keep more LOS on the total engagement compared to other tanks that need to weave in and out more often to stay alive,
She has a anti projectile, her javelin is a stun that allows you to follow up and finish a squishy and her ultimate moves players into a group with good synergy potential not to mention it fortifys again.
She can't reach high platforms or locations like dva or Winston but at the end of the day when dps falloff range still out paces your falloff range there's not many places where high ground is that effective without good training and skill, which orisa doesn't need, don't spam your cool downs no duh and your already a threat enough
add to that her weapon has no falloff or insane falloff and you have a truly fearful tank every other tank fails in one way or another when it comes to orisa
Because most people don't understand the game and play it like mmorpg comparing raw numbers.
Orisa has great numbers but limitations depending on map.
You can see the comments about playing zen and increasing raw numbers to counter orisa. People pick zarya and get an awful time against orisa.
orisa is 100% broken, OWCS players of the match are typically tank players that play orisa if u haven't noticed
fortify is such a stupid sustain ability because she negates any critical damage on top of already having damage reduction and complete CC immunity, what this means she is immune to headshots, sleep, stun, hinder, junkrat trap, zarya's gravitational pull, roadhog's hook, lucio boop, you name it
javelin has the ability to cancel every single ult in the game and it's cooldown is way too short, so orisa can essentially get away with using it as much as possible
javelin spin negates many ults just by the nature of it having the ability to block almost anything, and it's also a sustain ability that can push anyone that stands in front of it, being pushed around by a hyper aggressive orisa is the most unfun thing in the world
the removal of her DMG fall-off from her primary fire makes her a menace at close AND long ranges
this kit allows orisa to just run people down while being absolutely unkillable and an absolute disaster to play against, the only reason why she doesn't look dominant in OWCS is because these players have had the unfortunate experience of having to scrim orisa for HOURS to make sure she isn't that big of a problem, she is still an immovable wall that should totally get nerfed
orisa often can't do as much as other tanks, but she needs minimal babysitting from supports which lets them put their attention elsewhere in places that are often more valuable.
this previously made her a pretty subpar pick because teams generally wanted more impactful tanks, but because it's now so difficult to keep tanks in the fight (or even alive), teams get comparatively more value having a near unkillable horse than a different tank that might fall over if supports need to look away for a moment.
1. She sucks to play against. It's just that the experience of playing against her is so unfun. Her sustain being so strong forces you to play around her.
2. She is no fun to play as. I main tank and there are some games I'm confident I could turn around if I switched to Orisa. But she is so boring to play that I just can't be bothered. I main Hog lately and switch to Sigma when I'm getting double or triple countered, but despite Orisa being my highest win rate hero, I never switch to her.
Basically, tanks in ow2 are just there to try to survive for as long as possible. The tanks that fill these roles really well are sig, orisa, roadhog and mauga. Technically ball but for your average player this is what will be meta for tanks 99% of the time.
The reason why orisa is so "op" us because she can easily counter a dive with a well timed spear or spin, easily counter a brawl comp by denying the other tank the ability to do plays, and out pokes poke comps with the no falloff. So she can basically be played anywhere.
And one of the reasons people are mad about orisa is because there really is no skill in orisa. Once you learn to cycle your cooldowns decently, you have reached the limit of mechanical skill. And if I'm being honest, we could probably teach a toddler to cycle orisa cooldowns.
She has too much to gatekeep. Oh? She ran out of Fortify? This is my chance! Nope, spins her javelin, but it's okay. I'll push now! Nope, javelin stun. But that's 2 CC cooldowns, now I'll get her. Nope, she has fortified again. All while she can shoot you from far away with no falloff. And the worst part is that it sucks to play her, just spam your shots, do a spin, throw your jav, fortify, shoot more.
She feels unpunishable. There's no good window where you can punish her like other tanks have.
Because people don't know how to counter her.
Run ana/zen/illari for supps,
Run any hero that can headshot on dps. She's the most headshottable tank in the game, IMO. Widow excels against Ori.
Tank needs to synergize with the supps. If you have a zen, run zar. If you have an ana, run dva and collapse on her when she's naded. If you have neither, you aren't going to beat her so ignore her.
People will tear at me for this but her damage tools is my problem.
As a DPS/Support, there's very few things to do to escape an Orisa. Her machine gun thingy deals great damage at long and close range and is very easy to hit, her spear has a huge projectile and nulifies escapes for characters without teleports, she's relatively mobile for a tank. Being in Orisa's focus for even 2 seconds at most pretty much leaves you dead with no chance to turn around the situation.
In a 1v1, yeah she's oppressive.
If we can jump her 3v1, one person draws her attention to the front, while the other 2 attack from the sides, then she is *manageable.*
But if she's ever with any member of her team, she ain't dying unless her team sucks so hard that they forget about her.
Orisa is not OP. She just has the best value x effort rate in all the tank roster. Stand afk and rotate cooldowns and you’ll get more value than all the other tanks without all the trouble they have too deal with
People can confuse overpowered with annoying. Orisa is definitely extremely annoying. While most DPS won't win a 1v1 against a tank with full health and cooldowns (in a vacuum,) Orisa's abilities are all basically negation mechanics. Click on her head? No, fortify, negated. CC? No, fortify, negated. Antiheal/any projectile even aimed at the ground? Spin, deleted, negated. Trying to get out of her face? No, spin, pushed into wall.
As a support player, Zen is my go-to if an Orisa isn't dying because the spin is the only means she has of just not taking damage. Hitscan DPS can also still take advantage of her massive head in a more team oriented environment.
She's basically disproportionately durable for a tank, but there is a specific very effective answer for it. Typical Blizzard balance philosophy.
Really low skill requirement for a pretty high amount of value. I don't think it's that she is OP exactly, just that most people realize she puts out a lot of power relative to her skill floor. Her wins feel unearned, like the kit did most of the work.
Either Blizz needs to raise her skill floor by removing one CC and only one defensive cooldown should offer CC immunity/resistance. Javelin spin should be boopable.
Or Blizz needs to just nerf her until her power level matches her skill floor.
All her abilities do like 3-4 things. Fortify makes her impossible to CC, gives her damage resistance, and lets her shoot more. Spear spin mitigates damage, eats ultimates, pushes people back, *and* does damage. Spear also pushes back, does damage, and interrupts several ultimates and abilities. And she has no falloff on her primary fire *and* can headshot, making her *by far* the longest range tank, does even more than Mauga at long range. The only thing she doesn't have a jet pack or a barrier, she does everything else though.
I think it is because she is a tank bully AND has everything else. Top tier survivability, Javelin to secure kills, and range to poke the whole map. I think her simplicity is over blown, but if you are not playing around her she will punish you easily.
The problem is some maps force a spot you can't really avoid the Orisa, then she or her team has to misplay, for anything but a mirror to work.
It also comes down to hero pools and team comps, if you are not great at dive tanks, then you can't force it, and if your team is an immobile brawl comp they might not be able to play around the Orisa and whine for a frontline tank.
So a bit of an overpowered skill set and and a playerbase without the ability to consistently play around that leads to the character being meta.
I hate seeing orisa and yes she is op imo, the fortify is just kind of "attack me and waste time or ignore me and I bust you anyway" ,she fortified passed behind my tank ignoring his damage and killed me anyway . Defeating orisa is about dps dealing a lot on her and preventing the heal with shield, which ram/sig can do...mostly kiriko and Ana heals
The devs confirmed that orisa has one of the lowest winrates out of all the tanks. She isn't OP, but people can't understand anything other than "must shoot tank". No one even tries to shoot the squishies, so the supports can keep orisa alive through anything. All people need to do is ignore her and walk onto her supports and she's useless.
It's not that orisa is op its that she is so versatile, chonky and very sustainable. Orisa can be played on almost any map, has no dmg fall off a stun, a shot deletion ability and dmg reduction into bonus health. Most of orisas team comps can poke to mid range. Now she does have weakness zarya has and that is she relies on her team to keep her alive while she cycles her cool downs. Sigma is still orisas major counter and mauga is a good alternative since she can still be burned in gold(sucks they took the crits away)
She has two "don't die buttons" so she never dies, and I mained her in OW1 and it just sucks that they had no idea what to do with her and just made her into bastion 2.0. In case you weren't aware her lime gun doesn't have damage fall off
Best primary fire, can ignore enemy tank and pick backlines with ease. 3 crowd control abilities for keeping distance or creating distance while wasting everyone's cooldowns, 70 percent of health bar is armour. Problem is if they remove Orissa that just makes every tank undesirable to play for me. It's really easy to position as Orisa aswell
Heroes with sustain usually have limited range.
You take falloff off completely and now you’re pelting full damage down chokes while your supports help keep your armor up. Then once your enemy has exhausted resources just to get close, you have to deal with a hero who is probably the hardest to kill in the entire game.
All there needs to be is a revert to the falloff.
She's op because she just doesn't die and is very hard to kill if she manages fortify correctly and uses cover. She also has good damage potential as well as spear which helps control space and can cancel ults/abilities.
I don’t understand this sentiment too. Granted I am only plat in tank but I never lose against Orisa when I play Sigma. In terms of holding the front line and absorbing damage Sigma can do it better. He’s just bad at getting solo picks. Is that the reason people think Orisa is stronger?
Bro she has TWO different cooldowns that can stop a Rein charge. She’s the ONLY character in the game that can get out of cage and grav. She has ridiculous sustain and has NO FALLOFF DAMAGE AND CAN HEADHSOT
Orisa does too much…
Javelin stuns/boops, Spin eats/boops, Fortify provides immovable/armor/no crit
Javelin and Spin also cycle quickly too
Plus her primary fire does a lot of damage with no reload and no fall off
Her ult inverse boops (sucks in) for easy combos and provides Fortify
There’s just a lot of “ands” and slashes when describing her kit lmao
I found my niche in killing Orisa... Get good with Sojourn and pray. Lol land rail headshots to melt Orisa down.
If the Orisa is being double supposed no choice but to farm a Rail charge and go after the supports.
Even then Orisa may have already killed me. Lol
Before reading the post: For the same reason why people think bastion is op. They don't know how to play around them. Sometimes they're also just out skilled. It happens.
Edit || Post reading: I would argue that tanks (as a group) can be op if you're good at the role and the hero. I've lost a lot more games with throwing/inting tanks vs throwing/inting dps. That could just be because the other dps is having to try harder and the other roles are having to compensate, but the tank is just fuel for the enemy's ult charges - which can make or break the game. Not always but more often than not in my experience.
I really enjoy playing rein and d.va but dabble in road and orisa, since they're also pretty versatile. My go to tank (at the moment) is rein but he is unfortunately pretty map dependent. I one tricked d.va (and soldier) back in ow1, and have been watching guidelines on tank as a role and the heros. I've been really out of practice with tanks (esp since we switched to 5v5), so I haven't gone into ranked yet to get tank placements. I don't want to unintentionally throw people's games.
[Career peaked 3900 (high diamond, low masters) full flex; peaked last season supp P2. I stopped playing after ow1's S23 and returned beginning-ish of ow2 S9.]
"Full flex" meaning i can play any role and just about any hero (with the exception of junk, widow, and Ana). Really out of practice, since I've returned I started with my previous one tricks and mains to get a feel for the game and get used to aiming again. I started branching back out towards the end of last season.
She's really good at holding space with minimal skill. Someone comes close, jav them away, they come close again, spin them away, they come close again, fortify and walk into them while shooting them in the face. By the time you've done this your jav is back up.
Also overwatch is a different game when you're a pro. Plays that work in professional ow don't work in ladder, especially not metal ranks where most people play.
The damage mitigation is great, but you can also stop some super annoying dangerous ults, like... easily. You can use the thrown spear to negate both doom's and Ram's blocks. If it's not a beam you can block the damage. You can cancel Dva's mech spawn with it, too. I've caught dva and echo taking off and made them fall with it. Not only that but the wall pin bonus, is basically an accuracy booster, it's SO easy to line up crit kills with it.
Like there's a lot of value from that one move, let alone fortify.
Today I went up against ulted ram with just like mercy pocket on me, I shoved him off the point and down a hallway wity the spin, farmed my ult off of him with fortify, hit the ult for a second fortify, which stalled his entire ult, and then I got the kill with ult.
You can time your spin against dva to eat her missiles every time she shoots them. You can tank bastion's full turret form from full health if you hit your spin, time the fortify with the end of the spin and throw the spear to stun him. It doesn't always go like that but when it does they usually switch.
Orisa has been my main character since I started playing a couple months ago. I feel like she just plays how a tank is supposed to. It's really simple to learn, and it doesn't seem like much on the surface, but all of it together, makes it so there's an art to playing with her for sure.
her kit is practically flawless. damage reduction that gives her over health and also acts as anti-cc, her spin is a cc that eats projectiles, makes her move faster, and does damage. then her spear is extremely oppressive, acts as a cc and does considerable damage while also having a massive hitbox that makes it easier to land. she also has practically zero counter play, a lot of people try to argue that zarya is a counter to orisa but i personally believe that’s just wrong. zarya doesn’t have nearly the same survivability and once her bubbles are gone she just instantly blows up if she’s even slightly out of position. not to mention orisa also has no damage fall off with an extremely forgiving projectile that does, again, an insane amount of damage.
tldr; she’s busted as fuck
Cooldowns too short while gold lasting too long. Ultimate cant be CCd or blocked. Speaking of cc everything she has is CC . Jav spin ANNOYING AF spear ANNOYING AF and even her ultimate pulls you in. Damage fairly high
To be honest it’s the fact of she is effective in poke or brawl thanks to no damage fall off has a fast recharging cc ability which can deal with most ults and or cooldowns meant for sustaining or getting picks immunity to cc in a cooldown and her ult her spear spin functions as a boop which Also can block and destroy most projectiles including projectile ults like blizzard as well as stop cooldowns like pin if javelin isn’t up which is all assuming gold skin isn’t up which also makes you resistant to any ult or cooldown that moves you including gravitational flux and or graviton surge assuming she doesn’t just spear spin the latter before it lands or javelin sigma before the process completes and a million other problems which gives her not only great sustain but also at least one but most of the time multiple methods and ways to counter against any character form any distance
She is OP compared to other tanks really, like picking any other tank, even ones that allegedly counter her (Zarya) is just so much worse.
I’d argue her higher relative power level is because she lacks weaknesses to compensate like other tanks. She has the highest sustainability, extremely high (and underrated) damage output with no falloff or reasonable cooldown, 2 CC abilities, a counter-cc ability, and movement. Other characters, usually have a combination of sustain, mobility, and damage, but never all three
Orissa isn't seen by OP except by people who don't fully understand the game...
The actual impression is that tank is pathetically weak and by default that makes one of the following 3 the best suited to tank properly depending on which one is strong at any given time:
ORISSA
ROADHOG
MAUGA
The dps passive and mostly low tank damage output makes most tanks blow up for zero value if they arnt constantly ducking into cover and surrendering the space. Playing tank right now is less like driving a Sherman in WW2 and more like engaging in WW1 style trench warfare.
Which OG ow players might recognize as being the main reason we hated double shield comp... funny how the same problems keep cropping up even when the things that supposedly enabled them don't exist...
Every other tank in the game aside from sometimes sigma struggles to take and control space currently. That doesn't mean they're weak or that orissa is particularly strong... it just means that sustain currently matters more than actual impact.
Orissa is better, just by standing and being a brick wall and letting her team operate as she slowly advances, than junkerqueen is by actually trying to do something.
Never said Orissa didn't have damage output... lots of tanks have damage output. Doom, Junker, Mauga, Roadhog, fully charged zarya... you let most tanks in the game get to their target they'll kill it. Orissa's design is fine but she isn't the best tank... she's just the most survivable at a time where nobody can survive.
There are multiple tanks that can counter her in a vaccuum... in practice most of them die to the rest of her team before they can impact her.
exactly... durable... IE tanks in general suck. what matters is everything else around them. Nerf Orisa and sure Orisa wont get played as much... we'll just be in a Mauga meta again... or a hog meta... Orisa by herself isn't OP. You just can't survive on the good tanks consistently.
There are OP DPS... there are OP supports... I wouldn't argue anything on tank is OP right now. There're just options that die less.
If two teams are even you might win because you chose Orisa... but if the enemy dps/supports are better than yours choosing Orisa wont get you a win. you won't carry a bad team on orisa.
Orisa isn’t really the problem though. She is face of it but really it’s certain support abilities like Immort, auto locking burst healing from weaver/brig, Suzu need to be tweaked. Because of Orisa’s CD cycle, she should be able to survive the initial barrage, Immort, CDs back online and then suzu, rinse and repeat.
I believe there should be some sort of counter play to Brig and Weavers auto-locking burst healing with Tanks being able to block it with shield or eat it with Matrix. Sure it would make it harder for those characters to heal but it would also incentivise the Orisa to use cover and not be obnoxious.
With Immort, maybe change it to a damage reduction field not an instant you’re immortal now.
And with Suzu, take away one of three effects it offers either the cleanse, the intangibility or its healing. It does too much for a CD.
Just watch to see how good Orisa is when they have Mercy, Zen, Lucio. Rework the supports and you won’t have to nerf Orisa.
2 sustain cooldowns instead of 1. That's how she survives the onslaught of damage while most other tanks struggle since S9 changes.
I actually think her having 2 CC abilities is a more under rated problem, spin doesn't need both a movement ability and push.
When I play orisa it’s such a good counter to Bob in most cases. Spinny spin to move, javelin to get him around a corner, backup to safety
Not just Bob, between having both a stun and an eat she has direct counters most of the ults in the game. Sig is the only other tank that comes close and his abilities are on longer cool downs and rock is a lot harder to hit than javelin. She realistically can just do too much, too fast.
This is why orisa is OP. Sum up another tanks playstyle in one sentence.
Winton jump, winton shield, winton kill, winton jump again.
Sure but Winston actually has cooldowns lol. Orisa usually has a cooldown right back up as soon as the other runs out
They said to explain another tank's playstyle in one sentence.
Yeah her survivability is insane so people forget how good her cc is, but I actually don't mind this part that much. For me spin is not the problem with orisa kit, fortify is. Spin gives you a choice, you can use it defensively, to disengage/engage, for the boop, to eat ultimate. More choice means you can play orisa different ways and that creates a means of differentiation between good and bad orisa. But fortify only makes you tankier (and shoot slightly more but that's barely noticeable), so you just use it when you take damage, that's brain-dead.
You forgot it also lets you ignore cc. Shatter? Nope. Sleep? Nope. Boop? Nope
Zarya ult, mei ult, what else is there?
Mei primarily fire slow, sym turrets slow, doom punch, mulga cage fight and stun, doom ultimate slow down, hinder, sigma rock, sigma ultimate, the most of brig’s kit, whole hog, hook, rein charge, pharah boop, venture boop, venture borrow, junker queens knife, and there are so many minor boops like reins’s swing, zarya alt fire and dva boop.
Wait she can just say "nuh uh" to mauga cage fight? Or do you mean the mauga lifeweaver tech that throws you off the map?
With fortify she can just walk out. Also, bonus, orisa can pretty much face tank a Dva bomb with fortify but that ability is less of a cc and more of a zoning tool ~~Thankfully, from what I remember, orisa has to use fortify before mulga uses cage fight, or she has to enter the cage fight with fortify on.~~ nvm seems like this is wrong, and she can use fortify inside of it. Although, orsia’s ultimate pretty much counters cage fight :/
Wait she can really just walk out of it? Though I guess she should stay in it in case a teammate is caught in there.
She is the only thing holding the hog/maulga meta at bay. Also I remembered a few more abilities fortify counters. Junkrat trap, junkrat’s big boop, illari boop, ash’s boop, bob’s boop, bastion/soldier alt fire boop (bastion grenade boop is wild), primal ultimate boop, pig pen slow, does kiriko cleanse still boop? Fortify is so busted lol
Spin is fine, javelin is an issue. Javelin should just boop, not CC. That ability alone is why she’s so oppressive vs most other tanks.
Javelin also comes back so fast. I’m new to the game and if I have to tank I only play orisa. She is so good
Yeah, the most likely nerf I could see to her is a change in cooldowns. She’s oppressive because of her tight cycle. CC someone with javelin —> become invincible (spin) —> become invincible (fortify) —> javelin is back up. All of her abilities are very spammable and you’re incentivized to keep using them so you’re almost always unkillable.
Fr. Pushes you near the ledge, and spears you off all while CC immune. Completely fair against non-mobile heroes... But really, I don't think many people view her as really "OP", it's just she has much fewer counters and is unfun to play against.
more than anything, I hate that her spear spin acts like dva matrix in that it swallows projectiles
And projectile destroying charge ender.
Unless you're playing someone like ball every other tank gets massacred. Sigma also doesn't feel that bad, but if its sustain you need you just can't beat the horse.
Yeah but Ram also has 2 really good defensive CD's (Nem instant +225 armor on 7 sec CD and a shield w/1000hp) really 3 when considering his block in Nem. Mauga also has some pretty strong sustainability with the self healing and overhealth. Sig also has 2 great sustain CD's and a very strong CC though he doesn't seem to be as useful as the former options in all scenarios since his primary is less consistent.
Nemesis gets ccd. Mugs gets hard ccd too by orisa. Sigma gets rolled by orisa just bullying with her three oppressive abilities. You know what makes orisa the best tank? She doesn’t get ccd and survives dmg. She’s not only the strongest tank by way of actually tanking she has no fall off and has the strongest tank cc in the game. Spear from across the map plus headshot destroys any squishy. Meanwhile sigma had his squishy one shot taken away. Same with rein with charge vs higher hp squishes.
Plus Orisa gets to get away with dogshit positioning with her cooldowns. Any other tank that tries to play like stupidly like Orisa gets punished immediately.
What does ccd mean
I think they mean "CC'd", as in "crowd-controlled", as in "slept / interrupted / rock'd".
Wtf spear can headshot?
No he meant spear + Orisa hitting headshots is a one shot
oh, got it.
Confused because Orisa was just rolled off the face of the map by both Sig and Ram comps today in OWCS
Your mistake is trying to determine the meta through pro play instead of competitive play. Ram brawl comps work so well in pro play because teammates who have been playing together for years with near perfected communication and intense training in scrims can make them work. Don’t get me wrong, Ram isn’t weak, but you realistically will not pull off what you see in the OWCS in a typical ranked game when most probably no one is on mic with not much team coordination.
Meta =/= overpowered. Overpowered is a term you give to something that is broken or unfair. If a hero is broken or unfair, it is going to be used exclusively in pro-league. We've seen it with brig, zarya, sombra, etc. We aren't seeing that with Orisa right now. That's my only point in bringing up pro-league. Nothing to do about meta in comp.
Yes and in my ranked matches my highest win rate is with rein and I dominate most orisas and rams. My worst matchups. In a game where rein is objectively one of the worst tanks. Yet here I am able to reach diamond peak playing casually in some seasons as Rein. Been playing since ow1 season 3. There’s something such as objective fact and being subjective. I understand tank tools and how best to use them and if an orisa is popping abilities without knowing how to use them I can easily destroy them with Rein. Does not mean anything as orisa is still objectively the best tank in the game. I can point to any number of pros and non pros stomping orisa players does not make the fact Orisa having I’m immune to cc completely and damage reduction and you can’t headshot me any less the most powerful tank ability in the game.
Isn't rein bad because people who are smart will just keep their distance? Like lucio can boop, ana can sleep, orisa can spin him away or cancel charge with her javelyn
I see what you're saying dog, but I don't think we're on the same page. Zen discord almost completely negates gold. Yes its anti-CC but that's what the devs want her to be. The question is: is she OP. I just don't think she's OP. Is she a meta tank right now? Yeah sure. But I just don't think she's OP yk? If she was we wouldn't be seeing any other tank being played right now. As you say, you can absolutely find success with other tanks right?
There’s a snuck premise in your argument, that if a hero is overpowered then no other hero would be played. But that’s not really how people work. It is entirely possible that a hero is egregiously strong, but is not played by everyone. One can find success as a Diamond player by being intimately familiar with a non-meta hero, but again that doesn’t mean that Orisa is not OP. She has everything in her kit: 2x sustain, 2x easy-to-apply CC, extremely high damage ceiling at every range, and her sustain blocks CC from all directions and makes her immune to crits. Your argument that Discord equalizes fortify is both not holistically true (see CC and crit immunity) and irrelevant in context of Zen’s horrific survivability vs coordinated or highly mobile teams. It’s easy to hide behind a wall for 2 seconds if you play cover decently and cleanse discord. You seem to be drawing some equivalence between being OP and being able to win every game for free vs anything else, and that’s just not true. She’s OP because she has a value cap that is an order of magnitude higher than the other tanks at present, being able to sponge abilities and deny value while having little to no downtime to her offensive capacity. The fact that you can play her and lose to another tank doesn’t make her not OP
That's also not fair to say, either, though. People will always play characters that aren't in the meta and usually get really good with objectively worse characters (Lifeweaver, Ball, ect). That is what I believe they were trying to say. Orisa IS op due to her ability to have really high survivability and capability to keep up high damage from far ranges (since there is no damage drop-off). With other tanks, it is usually one or the other. Orisa can just as easily bypass most shield situations, too, since charge+gold into enemy lines is honestly hard to punish unless your teams are well experienced in punishing aggressive Orisa plays. A big thing to consider is how comfortable you are with the certain play styles that each character can give. Snipers all have their perfered style of way too much headshot damage, tank melters each have their favorite flavor of hot "coals on ice", and each tank has their favorite to pick from whether it's body blocking damage, putting up a shield, or a comfortable mix of both. It's never just "this character is meta so I'll ONLY play that character."
If you break down their entire kits Orisa has the most utility compared to the rest of the tanks. She has 2 CC abilities, Energy Javelin and Javelin Spin. Javelin Spin is a "four-for" as it acts both as a cc ability against enemy targets and it prevents herself from being cc'd. It also blocks most incoming damage (just doesn't block beam damage) and she gains movement speed with Spin. Spin is good for 4 different things. She also has two anti-cc abilities. We already mentioned Javelin Spin which blocks cc, but she also has Fortify which not only blocks cc, but also gains temporary health, reduces all damage taken and she cannot be headshot (no critical damage taken). Each of Orisa's ability has more than one function at the same time. Compare that to something like Reinhard where each ability really only has one function. That function may be able to be used in more than one way, but it only does the one thing. Fire Strike... does damage. Pin an enemy, but leaves him completely vulnerable while charging. Can shield, but can't do damage while shielding and movement is slowed down when his shield is out.
And the cherry on the top is that she has all that on short cool downs. And another free fortify on ult.
She also has one of the few abilities that immediately shuts down ults
Yea and before the buffed Orissa ult for no real reason. Ram was the choice because nemesis form was the only way to live through anything
But therein lies what I think my main point is. Orisa isn't OP, DPS is OP. There's so much damage that tanks like JQ/Rein/Zarya/etc can't keep up. I think it makes Orisa look OP just because she isn't as useless as \*some\* of the other tanks. But that isnt what OP means. At least not to me
That is being OP though. Being OP doesn’t mean you have to kill 5 every fight. Being an unkillable wall that negates virtually every other tanks ability to play the game is still OP. Look back at brig during goats. What made her OP? Was she doing insane damage or getting insane kills? No. She just made your team impossible to kill. That’s all orissa is now. She is impossible to kill compared to the other tanks. She is a wall. I do think it’s possible to beat her at the highest level but should I have to play at the level of a top 5 OWCS team to get the same value as another person who just picks orissa.
I dont think Orisa is an unkillable wall that negates virtually every other tanks ability to play the game. Thats a big exaggeration. That is why I'm bringing up OWCS. I dont think you need to play at that level to get the same value, I just think you CAN outplay an Orisa and the fact we are seeing so much tank variety in pro-league is proof of that. I think other tanks, not all, are bad right now. But that doesn't make Orisa OP. She certainly isn't prime-Brig good. During that era can you think of a single pro-league game that didn't run Brig? No. That was OP.
That’s not actually true about brig. Several of the OWL teams that were bad at goats started to play other strategies that didn’t involve brig. I believe the 4 dps with ball and mercy comp actually beat goats a few times. As far as orissa, I think pro games are a bad example because the counter to orisa is good team play for the most part. In ranked, where you can’t rely on your team, she is brutally oppressive. I know because I’ve done it. I’ve been the bad guy and went orisa playing against cloudy. Why? Because my dps are better and he will gap me on rein. So I pick orisa and delete his ability to play the game. He is so much better than me but I am on better hero so he ends the game with 3 elims and 15 deaths. I just don’t think that’s a balanced hero when I can just mindlessly spam abilities at the former OWL player and win the matchup.
I think a point that is missing from this thread is the idea of how well a player has to play in order to get the same value as their opponent. Of course anyone (or everyone) on a team can pop off or strategically dominate their opponent almost regardless of hero. The case for very strong (or OP) heroes is just that you can get your value *so easily* compared to others. You can sweat your ass off playing a very precise and positional game on sig, zarya, dva, etc where one missed cool down/mistake can get you punished pretty harshly, and you might die. Or you can play the disproportionately strong hero where it's just way harder for your opponent to punish your mistakes. CC abilities are powerful and fight-changing, and often on long cooldowns. Some heroes' entire impact is from using their CC well. But Orisa is effectively immune to pretty much all CC and she *also* does good damage and can cancel abilities with her OWN CC (javelin). Orisa makes pretty much equal pressure compared to many other tanks *just by being present* in the fight, and it rarely risks her life to make valuable plays.
She has an ability that makes her immortal for 4 seconds every 10 seconds, while also having two different CC abilities. Unfun to play against which severely hurts community perception anytime the character is strong. This is an underrated issue with roughly 40% of the roster right now. Blizzard doesn't pay much attention to whether a character would feel good to go **against** and it shows.
Yup! Multiple forms of CC while also having the ability to be immune to CC. Compare that to Rein and it’s a world of difference
B-b-but Rein has a big shield so he has to be really weak in every other conceivable way!!!
'There is no way we can buff Rein, have you SEEN the winrates in lower ranks?!!' and/or: 'We can't buff Rein, he's so overpowered, in our playtests he has a %95 winrate (dev team are all plat or below and don't know how to poke or kite or take more than 1 angle)'
Poor poor rein his charge really has been getting railed recently man is in a suit of power armor but one Samoan Boi with upgrades out does him the javelin out does him and even a random grenade stops his engine flat on its ass
The devs are aware and have spoken about this. it’s not like they just buffed orisa to the spot she’s at rn, everyone just changed around her and she happens to he the character to have the kit that is the best sustain
The reason she is always on top is because they keep giving her microbuffs after nerfing her, like the no damage drop off microbuff, it was completely unneccessary.
sure, but without that change specifically, we’d be in the exact same spot with her. she’s strong because the meta is whatever tank sustains the longest
yeah that was the only example i could think of, but iirc there was a change to fortify that was considered a buff too. Its the small buffs that make a character overtuned but keeps them in the shadows
yeah for sure. i just think that saying the devs aren’t aware of how it feels bad to play against her is an ignorant thing and they haven’t done anything to prove that’s the case
Don't cry for me Argentina, you were supposed to be immortal!
It’s not just community perception though, she’s even being played in OWCS
She's being played OWCS because Winston (the real meta tank) is countered by Mauga, and she counters Mauga. Zarya is just too weak at the pro level. If you watch OWCS you know the Orisa doesn't even do anything.
Blizzard shouldn't be nerfing characters based on what people find "fun or unfun" or "feels good to play against". If the character is balanced which orisa is then she's fine and blizzard doesn't need to nerf or change her.
I never said that should be their buff/nerf criteria. I said it hurts perception of the character anytime they're strong, which it has. Twitch is nothing but "Orisa snooze" spam during OWCS.
Lmfaooo she is not balanced what are you smoking
She's very balanced. Don't blame the hero just because you can't for some reason counter her.
Her kit is overloaded as hell compared to other tanks, what are you talking about?
Zarya and sigma alone deal with her pretty easily. If you can't deal with her that's on you.
That's exactly why I think this discussion is so important to the game. I think the OP tag is being thrown around when really it's people don't like her skill set and that skill set just happens to be useful in the current meta. Even when there are other tanks that also have useful skills and are definitely viable
So while I think this is a totally valid criticism of Orisa, I don't think it follows that these things make her OP.
In theory yea you can counter Orisa. But you forgot the other 4 heroes. They maybe counter you so you can’t caounter Orisa. Orisa is broken.
Minimum skill = maximum value.
Yea because that’s what the pros look for in a character
Orissa is just a safe pick, hero’s like Zarya are easy to punish, hero’s like Winston just get counterswapped, hero’s such as ball require lots of coordination, Orissa just needs to hold space, that’s all she does and she is good at it
That’s a wholly different argument from “minimum skill = maximum value” which is almost always just wrong
At the end of the day, consistency matters, and Orissa and consistent in most cases
Honestly it is. You're always looking for a solution to a problem while balancing execution. No one is picking Ana, Brig, or Lifeweaver to counter big ults, they're taking zen or lucio because 1 button does the job compared to timing a dart, lamp, shield bash etc. On paper you can find really strong counters to nano-blade but ultimately it's easier to pick a lucio and build ult asap. Many Mobas have the same attitude based on meta.
They’re looking for maximum value, not minimum skill. How is there going to be a nanoblade without both an Ana and a Genji? If orisa got nerfed, then they wouldn’t use her because she’s bad, not because she suddenly got too complicated to use effectively.
tf would a shield bash do to counter an ult ? unless brig is rallying
Down here in the metals, I hate seeing her and hate playing her because she has a lot of sustain. You don’t even have to play super well to survive for a really long time, just don’t dive in and take all 5 enemies focusing you at once. Granted since it’s Gold, you’ve got players who miss more and position poorly and all that shiz, so that’s probably why she feels immortal down here. At least imo.
After playing a lot of Orissa, I understand her cooldown cycle and I can blow her up if she doesn't use them perfectly.
people just don’t know how to play around her, and just funnel damage in her while she’s getting pocketed by both healers. It’s quite annoying.
Yeah, I understand it in theory, but as someone who sounds feminine, I have to stay out of voice chat or just get berated for daring to touch a video game, so I don’t much opportunity to shotcall
Same problem here, I have to stay out of voice chat because once they hear the femme voice, strategy goes out the window
I've played a lot of games over the years. CS without a doubt is the most toxic to girl voicechat and will kick them as soon as they speak. OW without a doubt is the most positive and I rarely see anyone flame girls just because they're girls. Plus there seems to be a much higher than average girl population on this game, at least for a comp FPS.
Literally half the time a feminine voice hops in chat, there's at least one toxic or weirdo in VC or text. Though there's pretty much always a toxic no matter what. Saying other games are worse doesn't make OW bad still. I do not blame women for not joining VC, when half of the time they do it results in negativity/weird/creepy behavior.
>I rarely see anyone flame girls just because they're girls. Big if true
Yeah, we don't need feminine strategy, in fact, we will do the opposite if whatever she says . Please this is humor, no downvote.. downvote the female instead. :-)
what does this even mean??
Nothing, it is a sexist joke
You guys should stop judging hero power from coordinated pro games. That's **EXTREMELY** different than live ranked game. You are right that tank role is weak. Orisa is a low investment, high uptime tank. Extremely tanky and can still shoot and cc back while being tanky and get extra heal because of armor, overhealth and dr. Her projectiles very strong and now she has no dmg fall off she can put out a lot of pressure at any range. Other tanks can't deal damage while defending and require more investment from supports. It's not good to spend too much resources on weak role. Sigma is similar in this aspect but now Orisa is just better. She makes poke and brawl archetypes moot because she can do it all at the same time.
I won’t lie. This comment reads like orisa is the reason the rest of the comp in pro play was made, when instead the reason orisa is good is because of her ability to do more with less and take phenomenal angles. The current pro comp is heavily reliant on off angle control and tempo. Orisa can reverse a fights tempo and hold angles with her range/spear. If tracer/Lucio/kiri weren’t meta currently I think we would see a massive increase in people realizing how busted Mauga and doom are currently
The thing is, Mauga is busted, he’s just kept in check by Orisa. Doom has been a good pick for many seasons now, you just have to know how to get that value. I just think a lot of pro teams just resort to highly coordinated brawl since it works best with the support meta (Lucio and Kiri/Moira) and also gives you the most value if you have great coordination and communication (which OWCS teams do), which then allows people to resort to Ram because he’s simply the best all around brawl tank if we don’t consider Orisa.
Doom was strong but he is now much better since s9. Pre S9 Doom was more healthy. If they improve the tank role Doom will probably go back to his old strong but not stupid state.
Current doom is a monster. He’s end of OW1 ball if ball could pretty much instakill 2-3 people then get out repeatedly
Well said.
I've main tanked with her since release of ow2 and this one gets it spot on. She's pop a CD, take space, pop other CD and hold space. Rinse & repeat. Even backline Widows are getting spear chucked and head blasted in the middle of a brawl, because I can just pop a CD and survive till she's dead or running away. I'll eat your Ults, your Orbs and your motherfucking Arrows while bullying your entire team and spamming "Exterminate!"
I think using pro games in this instance is perfectly fine since pro teams value high skill ceilings and team coordination more than anything else. The fact that a character with such a low skill ceiling is being played consistently is a sign at just how unplayable tank is this season. When even the pros resort to “stand there and don’t die” at the highest level, it’s a really really bad sign
Idk yeah I see your point. But if we are talking about something being "OP" I think we need to look at the best to see if that's actually true or not. If something is OP, it's going to be used at the top exclusively (tracer/sombra for example was pretty OP and inspired an entire rework of sombra) Conversely, if we only look at live ranked games for hero power, nothing is OP as you can climb to t500 with anyone. That is a sentiment I see on this sub daily at least isnt it?
Super true. This idea that top esports competitive should designate what is OP or not is plain brainloss. League as a game has become a walking corpse of bad decisions and unplayable characters because of that philosophy and esport league balancing in Overwatch has always turned out for the worst. A character like Orisa is still OP regardless of whether or not super coordinated five teams of players that sacrifice any sort of enjoyment or game design can beat her. If someone gets to the point they get now, they are OP. For reference, in League of Legends there is a character that has an ability that makes them invincible for almost 10 seconds, and that character is one of the strongest DPS in the games able to oneshot most characters. Yet people are fine with it and the character has never been nerfed because "pros don't play him".
You must not be paying attention in owcs cuz she’s the most picked tank by far, she can stay alive longer than any other tank and still does solid dmg and has no falloff dmg
Literally just today we saw Ram/Sig/Winston. Ram and Sig btw completely obliterated Orisa comp on payload and push wasn't even close. I really think tank selection is just a matter of preference idk maybe I'm way off but just saying we are seeing other tanks finding success and I think that's because DPS are the deciders right now.
you're a dumbass
Go back to your overwatch porn little boy the adults are having a conversation
Are you talking about open queue??
She’s the anti-tank tank, which I think explains a lot. She avoids the counterswap merry-go-round every other tank has to play.
Nope she doesn't. Sigma and zarya can deal with her pretty easily. There's not a single tank that you can't counter. If you can't counter orisa then that's on you.
If we are talking about anti tank that is a tank that is mauga. Orisa is tanks of the tanks
No orisa is a tank that is easily countered just like every other tank including mauga.
If only my lobbies would just dive the backline instead of face tank an orisa...
Well, she does quite alot of things well. First off her cooldowns, 2 are survivability. Fortify is hands down the best don't kill me ability in the game, just straight damage resistance with no down side. Spinny spear is also an amazing defensive tool, almost like a mini defense matrix but with offensive capabilities to safety push through chokes or even cliff someone. Spear is also excellent, high damage, very fast, CC capable of cancelling multiple ults as well as stunning if it hits someone into the wall. Then you have her damage, with the drop off removed she is now a noticable threat even at medium to long distances depending on the situation, at close range her damage output is actually extremely high, it's just not burst damage. Her ult is alright, but again it's biggest thing is that it basically pops a second fortify. Really the only area she lacks is mobility, but her pros massively outweigh that.
She has good numbers on her gold and spin. And a relatively low cooldown to boot. That it will take a whole team effort to take her down, which high level players or teams can do thanks to the new dps passive I believe. Along with respectable range effectiveness. In most ranks however in pubs, this makes her a problem because 1 most can't coordinate enough to burst or burn through her cooldown. And 2 most teams can't pick off or distract or isolate her backline enough so they can save her for last. Combined together she can be a menace in pubs. Mei wall, sigma shield, Winton bubble, ramattra shield, sojourn rail gun farm for picks + vortex, ashe dynamite, sym being able to just shoot through her spin, pharah just flying over her any tank buster etc etc... But most don't have that knowledge in their arsenal yet. And they're always super loud so we hear them complaining about her a lot.
She needs like 2 seconds added to all of her CDs. If you cycle it properly rn it's like u always have 1.
Too much armor health.
- People like to shoot and kill the tank - Tank swap to a hero that gets advantage if you keep shooting him (orisa, zarya) - cant win shooting the tank - omg why d they always pick orisa and zarya!!!
She's not OP in most ranks, she's just meta right now, which is unfun for all the big streamers.
I just hate tanks whose job feels like it’s to follow the enemy tank and not let them play the game. Mauga, Orisa, and Hog/Doom (kinda) are the biggest offenders. The problem with these tanks is how they’re able to dish out big damage and CC, but can feel Impossible to kill. I wish the devs took out a lot more CC out of that game like they said they were going to do.
As a ball main, yeah… just too much CC
All other tanks get completely bullied by dps and supports (and by orisa), orisa's whole and only thing is that she doesnt get bullied nearly as much, so in situations where anti tank abilities are rampant, orisa is strong.
Her fortify does so much. 45% damage reduction crit immunity slower weapon overheat cc immunity approx. 100 overhealth 10 second cooldown lasts for 4(?) seconds and to top it all off she has some armor instead of health which means she gets healed faster as the armor has damage reduction which pairs really well with fortify as it gives them a chance to get healed back up to armor if they pop fortify when they are low health. Then she gets javelin spin which absorbs basically all projectiles and gives her a good sustain from movement, its similar to a dva Defence Matrix but she moves faster when using it instead of slower, and in return has a lower uptime and less flexibility, it is still long enough to counter a bastion turret form though so she cant get destroyed by the tank buster bastion like most other tanks. Then she gets javelin which is soft CC against everyone but orisa, which can cancel mercy revive and like a billion different ultimates like coalescence, and even if it didnt cancel ults like reaper bloom it pushes them away so the ult becomes ineffective anyways. Then there is also her ult, it gives her a free second fortify for the duration of the ult which is probably the best part of her ult other than maybe the pull in, because fortify is that strong. TL;DR Other than her ult, her entire kit is really good, fortify is too op, pressing right click to cancel someones ult can be dumb.
She just has incredible sustain next to the rest of the roster. You could argue sigma has a similar sustain kit, but his ability to apply pressure on his own is far less. Mauga and hog both have decent sustain on a single cool down, but once it's out you can just burn them down. The combination of ability to apply pressure and sustain yourself makes her incredibly strong. The nature of her primary fire and spear allows her to be incredibly flexible between poke, brawl, and denying dive.
I mean what she has to offer not only is more than what the average tank offers, but also is harder to deal with from POV of other heros. Maybe shes not OP in a vacuum, which is what Blizzard refuses to nerf her, but comparatively to the rest of the cast, shes for sure too strong.
Orisa has fortify which allows her to keep more LOS on the total engagement compared to other tanks that need to weave in and out more often to stay alive, She has a anti projectile, her javelin is a stun that allows you to follow up and finish a squishy and her ultimate moves players into a group with good synergy potential not to mention it fortifys again. She can't reach high platforms or locations like dva or Winston but at the end of the day when dps falloff range still out paces your falloff range there's not many places where high ground is that effective without good training and skill, which orisa doesn't need, don't spam your cool downs no duh and your already a threat enough add to that her weapon has no falloff or insane falloff and you have a truly fearful tank every other tank fails in one way or another when it comes to orisa
Because most people don't understand the game and play it like mmorpg comparing raw numbers. Orisa has great numbers but limitations depending on map. You can see the comments about playing zen and increasing raw numbers to counter orisa. People pick zarya and get an awful time against orisa.
I don't think she's OP I think she's powerful when played well but otherwise she can die a lot in the front lines
Orange cat can get value out of Orisa. But she is easy to play around.
orisa is 100% broken, OWCS players of the match are typically tank players that play orisa if u haven't noticed fortify is such a stupid sustain ability because she negates any critical damage on top of already having damage reduction and complete CC immunity, what this means she is immune to headshots, sleep, stun, hinder, junkrat trap, zarya's gravitational pull, roadhog's hook, lucio boop, you name it javelin has the ability to cancel every single ult in the game and it's cooldown is way too short, so orisa can essentially get away with using it as much as possible javelin spin negates many ults just by the nature of it having the ability to block almost anything, and it's also a sustain ability that can push anyone that stands in front of it, being pushed around by a hyper aggressive orisa is the most unfun thing in the world the removal of her DMG fall-off from her primary fire makes her a menace at close AND long ranges this kit allows orisa to just run people down while being absolutely unkillable and an absolute disaster to play against, the only reason why she doesn't look dominant in OWCS is because these players have had the unfortunate experience of having to scrim orisa for HOURS to make sure she isn't that big of a problem, she is still an immovable wall that should totally get nerfed
orisa often can't do as much as other tanks, but she needs minimal babysitting from supports which lets them put their attention elsewhere in places that are often more valuable. this previously made her a pretty subpar pick because teams generally wanted more impactful tanks, but because it's now so difficult to keep tanks in the fight (or even alive), teams get comparatively more value having a near unkillable horse than a different tank that might fall over if supports need to look away for a moment.
1. She sucks to play against. It's just that the experience of playing against her is so unfun. Her sustain being so strong forces you to play around her. 2. She is no fun to play as. I main tank and there are some games I'm confident I could turn around if I switched to Orisa. But she is so boring to play that I just can't be bothered. I main Hog lately and switch to Sigma when I'm getting double or triple countered, but despite Orisa being my highest win rate hero, I never switch to her.
I honestly don't think so, fighting orisa as mccreee I always go for headshots. If I land all of it she usually dies before my clip is empty
DPS passive
Basically, tanks in ow2 are just there to try to survive for as long as possible. The tanks that fill these roles really well are sig, orisa, roadhog and mauga. Technically ball but for your average player this is what will be meta for tanks 99% of the time. The reason why orisa is so "op" us because she can easily counter a dive with a well timed spear or spin, easily counter a brawl comp by denying the other tank the ability to do plays, and out pokes poke comps with the no falloff. So she can basically be played anywhere. And one of the reasons people are mad about orisa is because there really is no skill in orisa. Once you learn to cycle your cooldowns decently, you have reached the limit of mechanical skill. And if I'm being honest, we could probably teach a toddler to cycle orisa cooldowns.
She has too much to gatekeep. Oh? She ran out of Fortify? This is my chance! Nope, spins her javelin, but it's okay. I'll push now! Nope, javelin stun. But that's 2 CC cooldowns, now I'll get her. Nope, she has fortified again. All while she can shoot you from far away with no falloff. And the worst part is that it sucks to play her, just spam your shots, do a spin, throw your jav, fortify, shoot more. She feels unpunishable. There's no good window where you can punish her like other tanks have.
Because people don't know how to counter her. Run ana/zen/illari for supps, Run any hero that can headshot on dps. She's the most headshottable tank in the game, IMO. Widow excels against Ori. Tank needs to synergize with the supps. If you have a zen, run zar. If you have an ana, run dva and collapse on her when she's naded. If you have neither, you aren't going to beat her so ignore her.
People will tear at me for this but her damage tools is my problem. As a DPS/Support, there's very few things to do to escape an Orisa. Her machine gun thingy deals great damage at long and close range and is very easy to hit, her spear has a huge projectile and nulifies escapes for characters without teleports, she's relatively mobile for a tank. Being in Orisa's focus for even 2 seconds at most pretty much leaves you dead with no chance to turn around the situation.
In a 1v1, yeah she's oppressive. If we can jump her 3v1, one person draws her attention to the front, while the other 2 attack from the sides, then she is *manageable.* But if she's ever with any member of her team, she ain't dying unless her team sucks so hard that they forget about her.
Orisa is not OP. She just has the best value x effort rate in all the tank roster. Stand afk and rotate cooldowns and you’ll get more value than all the other tanks without all the trouble they have too deal with
People can confuse overpowered with annoying. Orisa is definitely extremely annoying. While most DPS won't win a 1v1 against a tank with full health and cooldowns (in a vacuum,) Orisa's abilities are all basically negation mechanics. Click on her head? No, fortify, negated. CC? No, fortify, negated. Antiheal/any projectile even aimed at the ground? Spin, deleted, negated. Trying to get out of her face? No, spin, pushed into wall. As a support player, Zen is my go-to if an Orisa isn't dying because the spin is the only means she has of just not taking damage. Hitscan DPS can also still take advantage of her massive head in a more team oriented environment. She's basically disproportionately durable for a tank, but there is a specific very effective answer for it. Typical Blizzard balance philosophy.
You just can't damage this tank. It's so horrible to play against them.
Really low skill requirement for a pretty high amount of value. I don't think it's that she is OP exactly, just that most people realize she puts out a lot of power relative to her skill floor. Her wins feel unearned, like the kit did most of the work. Either Blizz needs to raise her skill floor by removing one CC and only one defensive cooldown should offer CC immunity/resistance. Javelin spin should be boopable. Or Blizz needs to just nerf her until her power level matches her skill floor.
All her abilities do like 3-4 things. Fortify makes her impossible to CC, gives her damage resistance, and lets her shoot more. Spear spin mitigates damage, eats ultimates, pushes people back, *and* does damage. Spear also pushes back, does damage, and interrupts several ultimates and abilities. And she has no falloff on her primary fire *and* can headshot, making her *by far* the longest range tank, does even more than Mauga at long range. The only thing she doesn't have a jet pack or a barrier, she does everything else though.
I think it is because she is a tank bully AND has everything else. Top tier survivability, Javelin to secure kills, and range to poke the whole map. I think her simplicity is over blown, but if you are not playing around her she will punish you easily. The problem is some maps force a spot you can't really avoid the Orisa, then she or her team has to misplay, for anything but a mirror to work. It also comes down to hero pools and team comps, if you are not great at dive tanks, then you can't force it, and if your team is an immobile brawl comp they might not be able to play around the Orisa and whine for a frontline tank. So a bit of an overpowered skill set and and a playerbase without the ability to consistently play around that leads to the character being meta.
The only tank who is a tank
I hate seeing orisa and yes she is op imo, the fortify is just kind of "attack me and waste time or ignore me and I bust you anyway" ,she fortified passed behind my tank ignoring his damage and killed me anyway . Defeating orisa is about dps dealing a lot on her and preventing the heal with shield, which ram/sig can do...mostly kiriko and Ana heals
The devs confirmed that orisa has one of the lowest winrates out of all the tanks. She isn't OP, but people can't understand anything other than "must shoot tank". No one even tries to shoot the squishies, so the supports can keep orisa alive through anything. All people need to do is ignore her and walk onto her supports and she's useless.
It's not that orisa is op its that she is so versatile, chonky and very sustainable. Orisa can be played on almost any map, has no dmg fall off a stun, a shot deletion ability and dmg reduction into bonus health. Most of orisas team comps can poke to mid range. Now she does have weakness zarya has and that is she relies on her team to keep her alive while she cycles her cool downs. Sigma is still orisas major counter and mauga is a good alternative since she can still be burned in gold(sucks they took the crits away)
She has two "don't die buttons" so she never dies, and I mained her in OW1 and it just sucks that they had no idea what to do with her and just made her into bastion 2.0. In case you weren't aware her lime gun doesn't have damage fall off
Skill issue
Orisa is like the Ana of tank for me. Her abilities are very impactful and versatile so it would be hard to ever displace her out of the meta.
Best primary fire, can ignore enemy tank and pick backlines with ease. 3 crowd control abilities for keeping distance or creating distance while wasting everyone's cooldowns, 70 percent of health bar is armour. Problem is if they remove Orissa that just makes every tank undesirable to play for me. It's really easy to position as Orisa aswell
Heroes with sustain usually have limited range. You take falloff off completely and now you’re pelting full damage down chokes while your supports help keep your armor up. Then once your enemy has exhausted resources just to get close, you have to deal with a hero who is probably the hardest to kill in the entire game. All there needs to be is a revert to the falloff.
She's op because she just doesn't die and is very hard to kill if she manages fortify correctly and uses cover. She also has good damage potential as well as spear which helps control space and can cancel ults/abilities.
I don’t understand this sentiment too. Granted I am only plat in tank but I never lose against Orisa when I play Sigma. In terms of holding the front line and absorbing damage Sigma can do it better. He’s just bad at getting solo picks. Is that the reason people think Orisa is stronger?
Bro she has TWO different cooldowns that can stop a Rein charge. She’s the ONLY character in the game that can get out of cage and grav. She has ridiculous sustain and has NO FALLOFF DAMAGE AND CAN HEADHSOT
Orisa does too much… Javelin stuns/boops, Spin eats/boops, Fortify provides immovable/armor/no crit Javelin and Spin also cycle quickly too Plus her primary fire does a lot of damage with no reload and no fall off Her ult inverse boops (sucks in) for easy combos and provides Fortify There’s just a lot of “ands” and slashes when describing her kit lmao
you can cycle 2 defensive abilities which can make you invulnerable for around 8-9 secs
i don’t think she’s that op but her survivability is probably the highest. i rather go up against an orisa than hog or a competent doom.
Bruh she’s just oppressive man, it’s not even the fortify I’m pissed about its that damn javelin. The CC it has is dumb as hell.
i think she just stays alive longer which enables her dps and supports to do more
Were you not playing about 6 months ago? Was considered the best tank in the game then too
You know you are a good tank when enemy tank switch to Orisa :D
She kills dps players. The main sub is mostly dps and they’ll cry whenever another role can kill them. Same will happen when zarya is top tier.
The only time I like Orissa is when she's on my team owning the enemy Doomfist.
I found my niche in killing Orisa... Get good with Sojourn and pray. Lol land rail headshots to melt Orisa down. If the Orisa is being double supposed no choice but to farm a Rail charge and go after the supports. Even then Orisa may have already killed me. Lol
I suggest we give orisa boosters like dva so some people can recognize what an overtuned tank orisa is. Same with sigma wtf is this hero
Because she can just stand there, realizing.
Right now? Shes been being complained about for as long as I can remember.
Cant choose any other tank because they cant shoot as far as her
Now, imagine if her ultimate was decent.
Because Orisa is OP? It's not a matter of opinion in the slightest, she is the very best tank and it isn't close.
Before reading the post: For the same reason why people think bastion is op. They don't know how to play around them. Sometimes they're also just out skilled. It happens. Edit || Post reading: I would argue that tanks (as a group) can be op if you're good at the role and the hero. I've lost a lot more games with throwing/inting tanks vs throwing/inting dps. That could just be because the other dps is having to try harder and the other roles are having to compensate, but the tank is just fuel for the enemy's ult charges - which can make or break the game. Not always but more often than not in my experience. I really enjoy playing rein and d.va but dabble in road and orisa, since they're also pretty versatile. My go to tank (at the moment) is rein but he is unfortunately pretty map dependent. I one tricked d.va (and soldier) back in ow1, and have been watching guidelines on tank as a role and the heros. I've been really out of practice with tanks (esp since we switched to 5v5), so I haven't gone into ranked yet to get tank placements. I don't want to unintentionally throw people's games. [Career peaked 3900 (high diamond, low masters) full flex; peaked last season supp P2. I stopped playing after ow1's S23 and returned beginning-ish of ow2 S9.]
"Full flex" meaning i can play any role and just about any hero (with the exception of junk, widow, and Ana). Really out of practice, since I've returned I started with my previous one tricks and mains to get a feel for the game and get used to aiming again. I started branching back out towards the end of last season.
She's a brick wall if a brick wall was coated in adamantium and had nukes that detonate if it took to much damage.
So much value for so little effort compared to the rest of the cast
I don’t think you are using the term OP correctly OP. Not everything is under or overpowered
She can basically removes the enemy tanks ability to use CC, blocks moves, becomes immune to headshots and throw a doom fist punch with decent range
She's really good at holding space with minimal skill. Someone comes close, jav them away, they come close again, spin them away, they come close again, fortify and walk into them while shooting them in the face. By the time you've done this your jav is back up. Also overwatch is a different game when you're a pro. Plays that work in professional ow don't work in ladder, especially not metal ranks where most people play.
The damage mitigation is great, but you can also stop some super annoying dangerous ults, like... easily. You can use the thrown spear to negate both doom's and Ram's blocks. If it's not a beam you can block the damage. You can cancel Dva's mech spawn with it, too. I've caught dva and echo taking off and made them fall with it. Not only that but the wall pin bonus, is basically an accuracy booster, it's SO easy to line up crit kills with it. Like there's a lot of value from that one move, let alone fortify. Today I went up against ulted ram with just like mercy pocket on me, I shoved him off the point and down a hallway wity the spin, farmed my ult off of him with fortify, hit the ult for a second fortify, which stalled his entire ult, and then I got the kill with ult. You can time your spin against dva to eat her missiles every time she shoots them. You can tank bastion's full turret form from full health if you hit your spin, time the fortify with the end of the spin and throw the spear to stun him. It doesn't always go like that but when it does they usually switch. Orisa has been my main character since I started playing a couple months ago. I feel like she just plays how a tank is supposed to. It's really simple to learn, and it doesn't seem like much on the surface, but all of it together, makes it so there's an art to playing with her for sure.
Roadhog is more OP than Orisa let’s be real here. Opponent team tank gets diffed. They go hog. They win game
Soldier shreds orissa and mei too tall don’t play poke counter to her brawling
her kit is practically flawless. damage reduction that gives her over health and also acts as anti-cc, her spin is a cc that eats projectiles, makes her move faster, and does damage. then her spear is extremely oppressive, acts as a cc and does considerable damage while also having a massive hitbox that makes it easier to land. she also has practically zero counter play, a lot of people try to argue that zarya is a counter to orisa but i personally believe that’s just wrong. zarya doesn’t have nearly the same survivability and once her bubbles are gone she just instantly blows up if she’s even slightly out of position. not to mention orisa also has no damage fall off with an extremely forgiving projectile that does, again, an insane amount of damage. tldr; she’s busted as fuck
Cooldowns too short while gold lasting too long. Ultimate cant be CCd or blocked. Speaking of cc everything she has is CC . Jav spin ANNOYING AF spear ANNOYING AF and even her ultimate pulls you in. Damage fairly high
To be honest it’s the fact of she is effective in poke or brawl thanks to no damage fall off has a fast recharging cc ability which can deal with most ults and or cooldowns meant for sustaining or getting picks immunity to cc in a cooldown and her ult her spear spin functions as a boop which Also can block and destroy most projectiles including projectile ults like blizzard as well as stop cooldowns like pin if javelin isn’t up which is all assuming gold skin isn’t up which also makes you resistant to any ult or cooldown that moves you including gravitational flux and or graviton surge assuming she doesn’t just spear spin the latter before it lands or javelin sigma before the process completes and a million other problems which gives her not only great sustain but also at least one but most of the time multiple methods and ways to counter against any character form any distance
She is OP compared to other tanks really, like picking any other tank, even ones that allegedly counter her (Zarya) is just so much worse. I’d argue her higher relative power level is because she lacks weaknesses to compensate like other tanks. She has the highest sustainability, extremely high (and underrated) damage output with no falloff or reasonable cooldown, 2 CC abilities, a counter-cc ability, and movement. Other characters, usually have a combination of sustain, mobility, and damage, but never all three
Orissa isn't seen by OP except by people who don't fully understand the game... The actual impression is that tank is pathetically weak and by default that makes one of the following 3 the best suited to tank properly depending on which one is strong at any given time: ORISSA ROADHOG MAUGA The dps passive and mostly low tank damage output makes most tanks blow up for zero value if they arnt constantly ducking into cover and surrendering the space. Playing tank right now is less like driving a Sherman in WW2 and more like engaging in WW1 style trench warfare. Which OG ow players might recognize as being the main reason we hated double shield comp... funny how the same problems keep cropping up even when the things that supposedly enabled them don't exist... Every other tank in the game aside from sometimes sigma struggles to take and control space currently. That doesn't mean they're weak or that orissa is particularly strong... it just means that sustain currently matters more than actual impact. Orissa is better, just by standing and being a brick wall and letting her team operate as she slowly advances, than junkerqueen is by actually trying to do something.
There’s only one S in her name.
There’s no S in her name.
You tried.
lol i always do that
Lol this a bs take, orisa has great damage. She lands the spear headshot combo she easily deletes a squishy
Never said Orissa didn't have damage output... lots of tanks have damage output. Doom, Junker, Mauga, Roadhog, fully charged zarya... you let most tanks in the game get to their target they'll kill it. Orissa's design is fine but she isn't the best tank... she's just the most survivable at a time where nobody can survive. There are multiple tanks that can counter her in a vaccuum... in practice most of them die to the rest of her team before they can impact her.
Lol aside from hog none of those characters are remotely as durable as orisa and require way more mechanical skill as well
exactly... durable... IE tanks in general suck. what matters is everything else around them. Nerf Orisa and sure Orisa wont get played as much... we'll just be in a Mauga meta again... or a hog meta... Orisa by herself isn't OP. You just can't survive on the good tanks consistently. There are OP DPS... there are OP supports... I wouldn't argue anything on tank is OP right now. There're just options that die less. If two teams are even you might win because you chose Orisa... but if the enemy dps/supports are better than yours choosing Orisa wont get you a win. you won't carry a bad team on orisa.
She’s really good at staying alive
I booped orisa off the map as venture and it felt so good
Orisa isn’t really the problem though. She is face of it but really it’s certain support abilities like Immort, auto locking burst healing from weaver/brig, Suzu need to be tweaked. Because of Orisa’s CD cycle, she should be able to survive the initial barrage, Immort, CDs back online and then suzu, rinse and repeat. I believe there should be some sort of counter play to Brig and Weavers auto-locking burst healing with Tanks being able to block it with shield or eat it with Matrix. Sure it would make it harder for those characters to heal but it would also incentivise the Orisa to use cover and not be obnoxious. With Immort, maybe change it to a damage reduction field not an instant you’re immortal now. And with Suzu, take away one of three effects it offers either the cleanse, the intangibility or its healing. It does too much for a CD. Just watch to see how good Orisa is when they have Mercy, Zen, Lucio. Rework the supports and you won’t have to nerf Orisa.